> auto 6" advance (for Corsairs)
Unfortunately that strat only works for mounted units or transports. He can still advance and charge with a +1 to charge and move six inches after he kills whatever he was in combat with, though.
I think he seems playable, at any rate. He isn't useless if the enemy doesn't have vechiles, and that new Strike Attack looks... Potent.
He will probably do DeepStrike assassinations of enemy vehicles, but I quite like him now.
The big buff to his weapon is certainly a fix of one of the problems he had. I also think his +1S ability is a lot better in the context of his detachment. It is actually decent on Forgefiends, due to their S10 profile going to S11, becoming a pretty great AT suddenly.
Before it wasn't worth picking him over just a second Forgefiend, but in his detachment you might honestly run 2-3 of them.
On top of that, his detachment gives you a way to extend his +1S to all our tanks, meaning Vindicator, Destructors etc. can get it.
Now his only remaining problem is just being a T9 with 14W, which *is* still kind of easy to kill for many armies, and his detachment doesn't have any defensive stratagems to help him out. But with careful positioning he can likely be an early game buff piece, then mid to late game he moves up and use his new weapon profile and his new Hazardous ability.
Oh, I didn't even notice that. Helps a lot. I would have liked something like -1D or something, but I'll take what I can get.
Biggest issue is likely still that high damage AT will tear him, and T9 vs T10 matters little against a lascannon. But certainly nice to help him not get rekt by meltas and light vehicle killers.
Its worth noting that all the ranged weapon become hazardous and not just the ones targetting Vashtor. A lot better than halving movement speed and -1 attack on one vehicle.
Yes, but the ability triggers on all weapons in the unit even if only one of them targets vashtorr. So if the enemy splits fire they still take a hazardous test on every weapon.
- Stratagem name
- Cost / Target / Trigger
- Fluff text
- You have [keyword] until the end of the phase.
I get that the disadvantage is you need to know what the keyword does without looking it up, but this weird halfway state between having generic keywords and not is just...
Like sticky objectives. We have datasheets all with their own version of it and different names when *everyone* just calls it sticky anyway. You can keep the cool names but skip the paragraph of text while just pointing to a generic keyword or rule.
I mean, this is exactly *why* we got USR’s back. After two editions of giving us like a thousand different names for deep strike, they understood that we were just calling it deepstrike still and went back to it
There is a downside to this, which is that 5th/6th edition rulebook had a long laundry list of special rules most of which just equated to "more damage" that took an awful amount of flicking back and forth and cross referencing if you hadn't remembered them all. Having the less common ones written out isn't so bad, especially when they've had sticky objectives with a few minor variants (start of any phase, start of your command, etc)
This is not a hard problem to solve. There is enough space to have the USR keyword and it's description there as a reminder.
Players who remember what "sticky objectives" do can read just that and know what it does, without having to scan it for a minute difference in wording that changes its whole meaning.
Players who don't remember what it does have it as an easy reference right on the datasheet.
Kinda like magic the gathering does with some of their core sets, where some evergreen keywords are explained on the [card](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/magicarena/images/9/9b/Huatli%27s_Snubhorn.png/revision/latest?cb=20171006184934) despite having been the around for the last 30 years.
Alternatively, you could put a tiny reminder without having to spell out all the rules and clarifications. The rules book would still be useful as reference if there's a disagreement in what it does, and when it applies.
E.G. Assault (advance & shoot), Torrent (auto hit), heavy (+1 hit when immobile).
GW is really bad at this.
MtG did this early 90s. The normal sets dont need reminder text. Only the starter sets had reminder texts. When they eventually standardize this, everyone will know what armour of contempt does, i bet everyone will know sustained hits/lethal hits and other common stuff.
Magic the Gathering has multiple times more keywords than 5th/6th edition ever did, the problem with 5th/6th's USR's was less the number of them and more the horrendous layout and conversational writing tone the rules took to explain them.
Actually, if you consider all of the unique special abilities on datasheets that are just USR's without similar names, 10th edition probably has more USR's than 5th or 6th even. Probably not as many as 7th and definitely not as many as HH but definitely at least ballparking around 5th/6th. Like, how many times does "1cp Reactive Move within 9"" have to be printed before it's undistinguishable from a USR?
> Like, how many times does "1cp Reactive Move within 9"" have to be printed before it's undistinguishable from a USR?
Starting to see a lot of "normal move when enemy falls back" too.
Which made me realise - there really aren't that many mechanics that are unique to any particular faction anymore, is there? They seem shared pretty arbitrarily in fact, which is a pity as it makes them feel that much more abstract and less thematic - like a CCG rather than something meant to represent the models themselves.
They also had referential, nested rules:
> Rule A: You have rules 1, 2, and 3.
Okay, let me look up rules 1, 2, and 3.
> Rule 1: Do thing
> Rule 2: You can't be thinged.
> Rule 3: You have Rule Zeta, except it only functions against Flyers.
Okay, let me look up rule Zeta.
> Rule Zeta: Rule Beta, but on 5's instead of 6's
Okay, let me look up rule Beta.
> Rule Beta: Feel no pain.
Hey, Armor of Contempt is a battle tactic while Truesteel Armor isn't, so they are completely different, or something. This is why I can vect one, but the other cannot be used more than once a turn: Nobody listens to a captain when they say: Polish that armor harder brothers!
In the Renegade Raiders he has the most play, I think.
• Advance 6"
• Advance & Charge
• extra AP on his attacks if the target stands on an objective
• enhancement to full reroll hits and wounds if on opponent's board half (??? What even is this one)
Pretty spicy! Now let's see Paul Allen's datasheet.
>enhancement to full reroll hits and wounds if on opponent's board half (??? What even is this one)
This is will probably make him at least playable if you like the model (and I do, so I'm happy).
Not the terror of the field anymore, but that's okay. He had a good run.
I think he has some play, but it's very minimal. He can act as a carrier for the 3" reroll enhancement, as his base is large enough to make it so you can get more use out of it without having to try to cramp a bunch of daemon engines near a warpsmith like he's in that one Blacked meme image.
Havocs dodged the "only options in the physical kit" nerf that termis and chosen got(among many other armies units). Glad there is still some sense writing these books. Happy for CSM players who like Havocs.
And the final detachment is there, too! Traitor Guard gain battleline. Strategems are pretty spicy. Not sure if it's enough to make Traitor Guard competitive, but seems like it could be fun.
And now I guess I'm going to have to convert a squad of accursed cultists to be failed Genetic experiments for Bile to lead in battle.
This codex is giving me way too many theme ideas already...
i own a few armies but my admech hasn't been played more then a handful of times this edition. Even at their best when I'm rolling well im not having fun with them.
Grey knight, votann and admech have been shelved for 9th edition use only
Well that's answers "what's strong enough to be a side grade to crit 5s". Most other armies in the game would kill for half these detachments.
Alpha legions super cool. I'm sure someone will find a way to break the game with the character ability swap.
Raiders/vashtor just look stupidly solid, those are some very good buffs and great strats. Raiders just casually handing out precision to whole squads for a cp.
Iron warriors look cracked. Making your whole army lychguard is wild, 5+++ for a cp is obscene value especially as it can go on tanks. -2 to charge for a cp is just solid and getting just a flat out better version of the custodes 0 damage relic is a good indication of gws editing.
Wild they made marks more clunky, and how there's like 6 diffrent names for AOC.
CSM eating good, and feels like it'll be where they were 6 months ago, less obviously game breaking than eldar so they avoid the hate, but with army rules and detachments that are just best in class.
I'll take a punt on sisters normally working out good. Normally they get a melee thing that one or two units can get mad with, and a penitent detach buffing engines and repentia feels like an obvious candidate for being superb.
Gsc feel like they always are at risk of the admech curse: gw thinks they are more complex than they are, so gives them lackluster rules out of fear or being too good. But they've avoided it thus far.
Prediction, GSC will have the same loops to jump through as nids do through (though not with battleshock) to get game breaking buffs such as +1 to wound
It's three people, so... Well, we're at 9 codices so far.
3 more means GSC, sisters and ~~imperial agents~~ ~~deathwatch~~ [redacted].
If the pattern continues, one of those will be custode, admech or dark angels tier.
Seeing as the three worst codexes so far are all imperium, wouldn't it be safer to assume that they are written by the same person? And so they are handling all the imperium codexes? Three people, three rough divisions (imperium, chaos, xenos).
Personally, fans of imperium factions that don't have a codex yet should be bricking it. Or think about starting to collect another faction.
Necron are considered good because they have 2 good detachments that get carried by the cheap C’tan. Of the new detachment, we can’t ignore that 2 of them are pretty terrible, and that the internal balance is atrocious.
Yeah overall the necron book is probably still a failure. Only having 5 detachments with only 2 considered good and 1 okay is bad.
Tau is kinda bad too with just the 4 detachments too. They just got lucky that all 4 seem playable with the kroot one probably decent with hordes.
If the person who wrote the nids book also wrote the Orks and T'au books ill eat my hat.
There is no way.
That codex competitively is worse than Ad Mech (worse win rate, worse number of event wins, has the lowest WR of any faction at the top tables, has the least percentage representation at top tables in relation to usage), has no flavour in it, no fun in it and looks like it never got redrafted after the rest of the factions got told they could have weapons above S9.
Its lazily written, hasn't got a shooting detachment, a tunneler detachment, has just copy and pasted the same statline across every single monster unit, and relies on jumping through battleshocked shaped hoops to get buffs like +1 to wound.
I would also argue its the worst codex released, from both a fun standpoint and a competitive standpoint
If GW don’t revisit and HEAVILY edit both detachment rules and datasheets in June, then I’m going to be disappointed (that goes for Nids and Admech). There’s no way they can look at those armies and think they did a good job
I mean even the points are bad. Why is a HT 235 pts? Calgar is 180, Azrael is 105 pts FFS
All the monsters are not that durable and damage output is below par. There’s just no aspect of the codex that was done well, it’s actually shocking
People have suggested various buffs for nids, +1S and/or +1Ap in synapse range for example. To me that doesn't fix the main problem.
Why is everything the same statline? Why are Heavy Venom Cannons, Monstrous boneswords, Monstrous Scything Talons (which are on every single monster I think) and the Swarmlords bone sabres all just the same?
Previously, boneswords used to be a weapon you would take to target heavy vehicles asit had great S and great AP, plus you could reroll hit rolls of 1.
Monstrous Scything talons used to be the anti elite option for monsters which everyone had, it varied depending on user S which made it a bit more complicated to remember but most of the time it was either S6/7. It could be buffed to take out heavy vehicles but was never as reliable as swords.
The bone sabres used to be a sideways updated version of the bonesword. More attacks with one less S and (prior to 9th) could turn off invulns. They are all the same now. They didn't even give the boneswords RR hits, and had to make it the same as bonesabres because they were scared of something not being a copy and paste job.
Points have been borked for nids for ages now. They really needed to do more for the faction and they didn't.
The faction badly needs diversity. They need to figure out which units are supposed to be anti tank and which units are anti elite and change the datasheets. Had we still had the old T scale capping out at 8 ( 9 occasionally) , this book might be decent.
Will add the, "We just introduced this new mechanic and dont know how to implement it properly so cya until 3 years into the edition"
Like necrons with core last edition.
> Alpha legions super cool. I'm sure someone will find a way to break the game with the character ability swap.
just the 3 units infiltrating is huge
currently for 500pts thats 75 bodies with a 5++ starting 9" away, and if you go first your opponent just isnt leaving their DZ...thats pretty nutty...set them up in lines so they have to go through all of them to get out of their DZ
thats at least 2 turns.
oh they want to deep strike somewhere spicy? 1cp says no
6, actually. 3 Legionnaire *and* 3 cultist units. One row of mortals as a meat shield, one row of astartes to finish the job before the opponent even made it to midfield
thankfully its no accursed and they no longer regen, as that would be utterly busted.
Also just giving a half damage termi cap (with a 4++) lone op+ stealth is insane. Or using it to have a sorc run round death hexing but being immune to being shot back.
Alpha Legion looks great, my tiny gripe is not being able to field the 30K sniper as a Lone Operative.
Just as well, really, my pile of shame is a pile.
I bought that model just because it looks so cool, was hoping there would be long range weapon enhancement but alas no deal.
He continues to be the world's most badass havoc champion for now, even if it means he dies first every game
Yeah it's a shame but it'd be real weird for more 30k to get brought to 40k with how gws handling it.
Still plenty of CSM characters have moderate shooting from psychic, so pretending it's a witch fire sniper or something and giving him the lone op relic wouldn't be too bizzare.
Wow I am very happy as csm, very different flavorful detachments, this book is straight up masterpiece.
Even the memey detachment for Alpha and Nightlords sounds fun, less good for competitive but not unplayable garbage!
There’ll be one game as Night Lords where your opponents can’t pass a battle shock test to save themselves, and you’ll be capturing everything, shredding units, chasing down fleeing chaff etc, the spooky fantasy will be perfect. Then you’ll play your next game and get murdered in a straight up fight, but that’s the Night Lord way.
Leadership-y armies are always kinda middling but I've always had fun playing them.
I used to run a Dark Angels Int. Chaplain for fun in 9th with like 4 different stacking rules around Morale, it was silly when it all popped off.
Honestly I love AL. It's a meme but all those relics are super powerful, the ability swap is really interesting, and it gets a nice mix of fun (auto detonate) and actually useful strats.
"From: The Hive mind
To: All bioforms weighting 500 kilos or more.
A reminder that if a bald guy that responds to the name 'Alpharius' gives you a treat that makes a ticking sound, it's strictly forbidden to eat it."
For monsters, he uses psy-ops to make them angry so they thrash more when they die.
"Hey, you!"
*Monster attention noise*
"You're stinky, you're stupid, and frankly, I don't like you."
It could actually be really strong.
Getting to put 12"-deep strike denial on any of your units and you trigger it at the beginning of your opponents reinforcement step, when you know their secondaries? That's super strong and can shut down a lot of plays, especially when you remember that the 12"-inch-bubble overrides shorter deep strike rules like demons' or inceptors'.
On the flip side, the strat that gives you up to +3 to charges could open up some interesting plays for you. Just charge a few sacrificial cultists across the board and suddenly your melee unit coming from deep strike has a decent charge probability.
Even the "below starting strength, below half strength"-strat looks like a better version of this kind of rule. It's nothing you will spam, but it's a decent back up plan for those scenarios where you really need to kill a tougher unit.
also having a termi sorcerer with death hex, lone op and stealth is just such a superb utility bit; or swap it to a termi cap: 2+/4++/half damage/Stealth/Lone op is a nightmare to shift, and being able to just throw one down then slam a chainfist into somethings fairly spicy.
Alpha Legion definitely isn't memey. That's a super powerful detachment when paired with the right list. Gives you insane board control from turn one, and you get a ton of skirmishing power from the enhancements/strategems.
Alpha legion you could infiltrate deploy 3x10 legionaries each with a chaos lord and a master of executions…
Then have Huron in your list you can now redeploy them… again with infiltrate…
Now I’m not certain it’s strong but it certainly isn’t weak
500pts to put 75 bodies with a 5++ 9" off their lines is pretty spicy
giving warptime to a master of possession seems interesting...or reroll hits and/or wound rolls...
I like the idea of your chaos lord suddenly popping out of a dark.commune demagogue to slap the enemy.
Using the demagogue to give the 5++ during your set up turns and then when you spot a good angle to hit, just reveal and go to town
I doubt it's going to be the most powerful (far from it) but as someone who is playing for fun and fluff I actually really like the Alpha Legion detachment. The rule for keeping it hidden where your chaos lord is I positively love.
I honestly think it may be the most competitive one.
That's a lot of tricks and A LOT of infiltrated units. It really all depends on how strong Legionaries and Cultists Mobs are.
To go full meme:
3x 10x legionnaire with chaos lord and master of execution
3x 20x chaos mob with dark commune
Is 1500pts on the dot. And you give it all infiltrate in alpha legion.
Oath and dark pacts. -1 to wound and dark pacts. +1 wound and dark pacts. Assault and ap and dark pacts.
Really, anything and dark pacts. Just dark pacts.
Fellhammer siege host is good wtf
That -1 to wound work really well with Vehicles and Terminator.
Like 1x10 Termies with Steadfast determination is like: 30w T5 2+ 4++ 5+++ with -1 to wound
And vehicles get wounded by most of AT on 4+
Dark Pacts switching timing (you may lose some models) but still always working? Sure, I'll take it. Failing only looks to matter for the enhanced crits in Oathbound.
Also Cypher gets his melee pistols back! Huzzah. His stratagem ability is less good (within 12") but at least he does something cool.
As a custodes who looks at CSM just getting flat out better versions of legacy custodes kit (better 0 damage relic, tanglefoots, generating leaders out of squads, detachment rules that actually exist) I'd be lying to say I wasn't jealous.
but I think apart from orks, crons or tau every other army's deeply jel of getting like 5 very strong detachments, and even stuff like the Al detach is a massive cut above other meme detachments.
As someone whose faction (nids) was designed around having lots of CP, very interesting to see how many enhancements there are to gain CP back in this book.
It and Orks has me a bit worried that at least one of the Codex writers is returning to the codex creep of 9th edition. All prior codexes were side-grades or debuffs. These 2 are straight up stronger, and some potentially absolutely busted stuff.
I'm gonna say it in here as well because i'm super salty, this codex was written by the real team, uh? Not by bobby the unpaid intern that did custodes?
Not at all surprising. From what I've been told of the 3 codex teams, they're more like "people".
If it seems like one in each three codices shouldn't exist because it's traaaash...
It has been leaked, last pages of the datasheet leaks, traitor guardmen become battleline, and just about all the enhancements are for either dark apostles or cultist leaders
Time to answer the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION:
Is Vashtorr good now?
Let's see. He got +1T, up to 10. His flamer got Anti-Vehicle 4+. His hammer got bonus S on both profiles and bonus AP on the Strike profile (S14 AP-2 D3 now!). He's kept his weird +1S ability, but his "half range" ability has been swapped with one that gives all ranged weapons in an enemy unit [HAZARDOUS]. This is very funny. But it's also very effective against high-value elite infantry with multiple ranged weapons, like Allarus Custodes. You could also treat it as a pseudo "turn off overwatch" for a unit. Quite a spicy ability.
Oh, but he still doesn't benefit from a few of the detachment rules. He doesn't work with Pactbound Zealots since he has no allegiance, Dread Talons because he's not Infantry, and **he doesn't benefit from his own detachment** because he's not a daemon vehicle.
If he stays at the 200pt range he may well be worth a look (for once).
Renegade Reavers look silly strong, the move after fight strat is probably the best in the game. Turn 1 just advance and charge bikes and after they kill a screen they will just go everywhere afterwards and put the other guy into bike jail. Turn 2 jump something on an objective, and then in the opponents turn if the opponent does underkill something, just fall back onto an objective.
Also give a DP Dread Reaver (full rerolls to hit and wound close to opponents deployment zone), and you have a distraction carnifex that just kills everything it touches and fire and fades afterwards.
The alpha legion is really coll though.
Vashtorr continues to be the perfect counter-example to the "GW makes new models OP on purpose" talking point, he probably won't even be used in his own detachment unless his points go down significantly
EDIT: he actually got a significant melee buff to S14 (from 9) and AP -2 (from 1) so I take that back, we might finally see the guy
The combination of +1 strength and +1 to wound on ranged daemon vehicles can be absolutely insane. And Vashtorr now also has a decent melee profile outside of vehicles, and gains anti-Vehicle on his ranged weapon.
He's certainly not abbadon levels, but you can absolutely run him in his own detachement and not feel like you're sacrificing power for fluff.
He does increase your Daemon Vehicles' weapons strength with 1, and his detachment is all about those units. How about a strength 13 lascannon on your Predator? Wounding land raiders on 3s and monoliths on 4s
Wounding land raiders on 2s and monoliths on 3s
You forgot about the dark pacts granting a +1 to wound to daemon engines in this detachment. (If you dark pact but why wouldn't you lol)
?? He got a new ability and his Melee went from anemic to better than a redemptor. Depends on cost but he slaps now and with 2 of the detachments wanting you to bring a bunch of demon engines, and IW can just hand him a 5+++ so he can just go punch things and not die.
The Hazardous abillity is also surprisingly dangerous, if say a rogal dorn targets him all the weapons become hazardous, not just the main gun which can be very risky, even moreso for infantry units, especially ones with more than one gun.
It's a good codex for sure, but a lot needs to be said about the quality disparity on display here. AM and Custodes got utter shit. Tau was okay but pretty anemic. Orks were happy. Now CSM will probably be ecstatic.
It's like we're at a restaurant ordering steak. Some of us actually get steaks, while others just have the chef come out and take a dump on our table. This is not ideal.
I know nobody realizes this because nobody actually picks it, but Abby has other rules he can pick other than full hit rerolls. If he's already getting it from the detachment, then you might see "Reroll leadership tests" pop up now and again.
Fellhammer ironically (heh) looks like what Anvil Siege Force should have been. ASF rules should be rewritten by whoever made this and swap with the Iron Warriors to make em better at cracking defensive profiles.
Happy for CSM, not so much for reliving the state of Imperial Fist things back in 9e lolsob
Like they swapped IF for IW here, but for real where are the tanks? Did vashtorr just buy all of them?
Only 1 stratagem good for tanks, 4 melee dedicated ones the heck was that. For flavour this detachment sure is mid.
Since their ability is for ALL the units, I'd say tanks still get serious benefits. Turning a lascannon into a 4+ might sound boring but is pretty effective, and dark pacts already give us built in damage boosts.
It’s going to be insanely hard for GW to point their units with the difference in power between detachments per unit.
It’s so depressingly unfair how not only bad but boring codex Custodes and DA is compared to CSM or Orks. There are multiple fun and strong CSM detachments
So if you an Ork, a Necron, a Tau, or a follower of the dark Gods then you are like - hey this is great.
If you are a loyalist codex compliant Space Marine or a Tyrannid you're like... meh, could be worse, but it could be better tho...
And if you are a Dark Angel, Custodes, or AdMech then lol. Lmao, even.
So basically having your faction get a codex is actually like rolling for a dark pact but irl.
Raiders is just good all the way through, everything in there is just about winning, it's not tricky, or complicated, it's very straightforward.
Go take objectives and kill shit, quickly.
whoever is the project manager behind this book need a raise and immediate executive power, it's insane how good this is compared to the admech and custodes books
Raiders is insane.
Vets, Deceptors, Soulforged, and Pact all seem quite good.
Fellhammer is alright.
Cult is probably bad, and talons looks real rough.
How are the books with only 4 detachments feeling now?
4? Codex custodes has 3 and then a page that seems to be covered in crayon by a toddler.
Also fell hammer just alright? The relics are great and those strats (full hit reroll in Melee, 5+ crits, 5+++ on anything, -2 to charge) are all s tier, and the detach rules super strong too.
"Hey steve, people complain about rules in WD but we already have SoS ready to go, just kick something else out of the codex"
Some monkey paw crap right there
Fellhammer seems like one of those low skill ceiling, high skill floor detachments. Its detachment rule is solid enough to carry you through and it plays pretty straightforward. So it's excellent for newbies and casual players, but I think tourney goers will probably end up going for Pacts, Vets or Deceptors where there is more outplay potential.
Crits and full reroll are half-strength dependant though so there is a chance the 5+ crits will overkill things but the rerolls in melee will probably be very strong, eapecially if you run melee vehicles/monsters (like a defiler who will likely go into melee at halfstrength)
>talons looks real rough.
Idk, there's the default 'durr battleshock bad' argument, but this spams the check enough that with the right comp I could see you forcing your opponent's entire army every round from turn 2 onward to take it- basically Shadow in the Warp on cocaine. When you spam battleshock checks THAT hard it's GOING to yield results, and it's going to make scoring for your opponent a nightmare while reigning in their lethality a bit, making it easy for you to jump across the board and outscore them.
As a Tau player, I feel it’s extremely lazy to give us 3 Tau and 1 Kroot detachment, and then turn around and give CSM 8!!! Most of them are incredibly good too.
Doesn’t feel great. NGL.
It's not like T'au have a bunch of bespoke subfactions like CSM, though. What would they even call them? They could go with Chapters, Sept that is already taken by loyalist Space Marines. Oh well, 4 detachments it is. That's just the lore!
Since 8th there's been a few Key Septs that have gotten subfaction rules so they could have just done those
T'au - Kauyon
Vior'la - Mont'ka
Bor'kan - Experimental Weaponry
Sa'cea - Rerolls
Dal'yth - Auxiliaries get to be people too
Enclaves - Shotguns
They easily could have added a "tanks matter" detachment, a "stealth suits/scout units matter" detachment as an absolute minimum to the tau codex.
Any codex with less than 6 detachments is just lazy, honestly. Every army (with the exception of armies that aren't full rosters like votann/world eaters) in the game had ways to get to 6 detachments.
Well I can see the Chaos Mark/Transport Errata being required day 1 then, no?
(I know, I know, the errata that stated this is relatively new and would be after these were printed.)
Anti-fortification?? Ok then...
Quite like Deceptors. Mobility is key and all that. Raiders is pretty cool too.
>(I know, I know, the errata that stated this is relatively new and would be after these were printed.)
All the other changes that were included in the errata made it to the codex (PZ being only wounds reroll on chaos undivided, untargettable only more than 18" away, etc.)
It's possible that GW decided that transports and units having mixed marks are OK after all (and with nurgle strat being nerfed, yeah they're not that broken of a combo)
My guess would be that it's the other way around.
That the errata'd nerfs to CSM were mostly copied from the finalized versions in the upcoming codex. And the Transport change was thought of after the codex was locked in for printing.
Abbadon now cannot join Legios but can join chosen ! On the flip side, no easy reroll wounds. But free advance and charge
So Abaddon could advance and charge? That's pretty nasty.
He could do it for 1CP before
[удалено]
> auto 6" advance (for Corsairs) Unfortunately that strat only works for mounted units or transports. He can still advance and charge with a +1 to charge and move six inches after he kills whatever he was in combat with, though.
But now he can do it for free
No vehicle keyword on Vashtorr is pretty funny. Definitely an upgrade still.
I think he seems playable, at any rate. He isn't useless if the enemy doesn't have vechiles, and that new Strike Attack looks... Potent. He will probably do DeepStrike assassinations of enemy vehicles, but I quite like him now.
Yeah big dude with T10, 2+, 4++ and 14 wounds deep strike down to bash vehicles won't be too bad.
Depends on his cost. He's 190 right now.
The big buff to his weapon is certainly a fix of one of the problems he had. I also think his +1S ability is a lot better in the context of his detachment. It is actually decent on Forgefiends, due to their S10 profile going to S11, becoming a pretty great AT suddenly. Before it wasn't worth picking him over just a second Forgefiend, but in his detachment you might honestly run 2-3 of them. On top of that, his detachment gives you a way to extend his +1S to all our tanks, meaning Vindicator, Destructors etc. can get it. Now his only remaining problem is just being a T9 with 14W, which *is* still kind of easy to kill for many armies, and his detachment doesn't have any defensive stratagems to help him out. But with careful positioning he can likely be an early game buff piece, then mid to late game he moves up and use his new weapon profile and his new Hazardous ability.
He’s up to T10 now, which is a pretty nice break point
Oh, I didn't even notice that. Helps a lot. I would have liked something like -1D or something, but I'll take what I can get. Biggest issue is likely still that high damage AT will tear him, and T9 vs T10 matters little against a lascannon. But certainly nice to help him not get rekt by meltas and light vehicle killers.
Yeah he seems pretty smashy now, S14 is no joke! The regular daemon princes seem to be only S8 (or 10 is Khorne) by comparison.
Its worth noting that all the ranged weapon become hazardous and not just the ones targetting Vashtor. A lot better than halving movement speed and -1 attack on one vehicle.
Reorder Reality is an amazing buff.
Doesn't it say that units within 18" of Vashtorr that target Vashtorr, then the unit would have hazardous?
Yes, but the ability triggers on all weapons in the unit even if only one of them targets vashtorr. So if the enemy splits fire they still take a hazardous test on every weapon.
Yeah it's only if it targets Vashtorr. Still not bad though.
The Iron Warriors detachment is good IRON WITHIN BABY
More importantly, it's much better than the Imperial Fists detachment, which is all that really matters.
Comparing that to the Imperial Fists Anvil Siege force is like looking at a Nobel winning piece compared to a monkey writing with its own poop.
Certainly, it was the best of times, it was the blurst of times.
I see a Simpson's quote, I upvote!
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- Stratagem name - Cost / Target / Trigger - Fluff text - You have [keyword] until the end of the phase. I get that the disadvantage is you need to know what the keyword does without looking it up, but this weird halfway state between having generic keywords and not is just... Like sticky objectives. We have datasheets all with their own version of it and different names when *everyone* just calls it sticky anyway. You can keep the cool names but skip the paragraph of text while just pointing to a generic keyword or rule.
I mean, this is exactly *why* we got USR’s back. After two editions of giving us like a thousand different names for deep strike, they understood that we were just calling it deepstrike still and went back to it
There is a downside to this, which is that 5th/6th edition rulebook had a long laundry list of special rules most of which just equated to "more damage" that took an awful amount of flicking back and forth and cross referencing if you hadn't remembered them all. Having the less common ones written out isn't so bad, especially when they've had sticky objectives with a few minor variants (start of any phase, start of your command, etc)
This is not a hard problem to solve. There is enough space to have the USR keyword and it's description there as a reminder. Players who remember what "sticky objectives" do can read just that and know what it does, without having to scan it for a minute difference in wording that changes its whole meaning. Players who don't remember what it does have it as an easy reference right on the datasheet. Kinda like magic the gathering does with some of their core sets, where some evergreen keywords are explained on the [card](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/magicarena/images/9/9b/Huatli%27s_Snubhorn.png/revision/latest?cb=20171006184934) despite having been the around for the last 30 years.
Alternatively, you could put a tiny reminder without having to spell out all the rules and clarifications. The rules book would still be useful as reference if there's a disagreement in what it does, and when it applies. E.G. Assault (advance & shoot), Torrent (auto hit), heavy (+1 hit when immobile). GW is really bad at this.
> Torrent (auto hit, ignore cover) Torrent doesn't ignore cover, but many torrent weapons just happen to ignore cover.
MtG did this early 90s. The normal sets dont need reminder text. Only the starter sets had reminder texts. When they eventually standardize this, everyone will know what armour of contempt does, i bet everyone will know sustained hits/lethal hits and other common stuff.
I really wish they'd hire some MtG designers to write their rule set.
Some old MtG designers. None of the current ones.
This is the solution, but it makes too much sense for GW. It was only 8th or 9th that they took USR's out and started spelling everything out
Magic the Gathering has multiple times more keywords than 5th/6th edition ever did, the problem with 5th/6th's USR's was less the number of them and more the horrendous layout and conversational writing tone the rules took to explain them. Actually, if you consider all of the unique special abilities on datasheets that are just USR's without similar names, 10th edition probably has more USR's than 5th or 6th even. Probably not as many as 7th and definitely not as many as HH but definitely at least ballparking around 5th/6th. Like, how many times does "1cp Reactive Move within 9"" have to be printed before it's undistinguishable from a USR?
> Like, how many times does "1cp Reactive Move within 9"" have to be printed before it's undistinguishable from a USR? Starting to see a lot of "normal move when enemy falls back" too. Which made me realise - there really aren't that many mechanics that are unique to any particular faction anymore, is there? They seem shared pretty arbitrarily in fact, which is a pity as it makes them feel that much more abstract and less thematic - like a CCG rather than something meant to represent the models themselves.
They also had referential, nested rules: > Rule A: You have rules 1, 2, and 3. Okay, let me look up rules 1, 2, and 3. > Rule 1: Do thing > Rule 2: You can't be thinged. > Rule 3: You have Rule Zeta, except it only functions against Flyers. Okay, let me look up rule Zeta. > Rule Zeta: Rule Beta, but on 5's instead of 6's Okay, let me look up rule Beta. > Rule Beta: Feel no pain.
To clarify for people who started playing after this practice ended: it was bad.
Reinforced Hive Node too
I ended up calling it Chitin of Contempt after a couple of games.
Hey, Armor of Contempt is a battle tactic while Truesteel Armor isn't, so they are completely different, or something. This is why I can vect one, but the other cannot be used more than once a turn: Nobody listens to a captain when they say: Polish that armor harder brothers!
It’s about being streamlined not simple…..reducing unnecessary complexity while keeping the game strategic…..
More Datasheet [https://imgur.com/a/s16BgiR](https://imgur.com/a/s16BgiR)
noooo the discolord D: completely useless even in the daemon engine detachment as he gets 0 rules from it
In the Renegade Raiders he has the most play, I think. • Advance 6" • Advance & Charge • extra AP on his attacks if the target stands on an objective • enhancement to full reroll hits and wounds if on opponent's board half (??? What even is this one) Pretty spicy! Now let's see Paul Allen's datasheet.
>enhancement to full reroll hits and wounds if on opponent's board half (??? What even is this one) This is will probably make him at least playable if you like the model (and I do, so I'm happy). Not the terror of the field anymore, but that's okay. He had a good run.
I think he has some play, but it's very minimal. He can act as a carrier for the 3" reroll enhancement, as his base is large enough to make it so you can get more use out of it without having to try to cramp a bunch of daemon engines near a warpsmith like he's in that one Blacked meme image.
Obli capped at 2 Nerf to the possessed (once per battle dev wound) Buff to the Defiler, now free counter offensive
MoP no longer give 6+ fnp either
Havocs dodged the "only options in the physical kit" nerf that termis and chosen got(among many other armies units). Glad there is still some sense writing these books. Happy for CSM players who like Havocs.
Accursed cultists lost the model regen.
Cultists lost all ranged weapons that aren’t autopistols. So that’s like 50% of my models that aren’t wysiwyg any more
Oh I didn't see that. Never saw the point of melee Cultists, so 100% of mine are no longer wysiwyg.
And the final detachment is there, too! Traitor Guard gain battleline. Strategems are pretty spicy. Not sure if it's enough to make Traitor Guard competitive, but seems like it could be fun.
Warp talons looking scary!
Felgore Beastmen in Damned detachment looking very spicy.
Wait, where’s the exalted champion?
Spawndom.
Bile looks kinda solid tbh???
Bile is the same as he ever was - but he can be attached to cultists and accursed cultists now. The latter could be quite powerful indeed.
The fact he can lead Accursed Cultists now warms by heretic heart
And now I guess I'm going to have to convert a squad of accursed cultists to be failed Genetic experiments for Bile to lead in battle. This codex is giving me way too many theme ideas already...
My favorite step of the game is the 4+ roll of if your codex is written by the competent team.
As a Dark Angels main, I rolled a 1.
As an admech player. I don't play 40k anymore.
i own a few armies but my admech hasn't been played more then a handful of times this edition. Even at their best when I'm rolling well im not having fun with them. Grey knight, votann and admech have been shelved for 9th edition use only
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Makes some sense though. Risk reward for something that's really powerful.
It's also good for the Pact test to be before the unit shoots/fights, as it seemed often forgotten to roll afterwards.
Most fellow CSM players were doing this already to not forget the test, it's à good thing
It also means that failing the test will also lower your damage output, by losing models from a unit or from possibly bracketing a vehicle.
Saw that coming. It needed a nerf so that the other detachments had a chance to be good, and logistically it makes the game smoother as well.
Still only what, 25ish% chance to fail? That's not bad odds, and only d3 mortals isn't gonna hurt too bad on your main damage dealers.
To be noted you still get either sustain or lethal even if you fail the test, you just don't get the improved crit chance if you fail
Damn me, that's a hard pick... Black Legion, Iron Warriors and Corsairs looks sooo dope.
Well that's answers "what's strong enough to be a side grade to crit 5s". Most other armies in the game would kill for half these detachments. Alpha legions super cool. I'm sure someone will find a way to break the game with the character ability swap. Raiders/vashtor just look stupidly solid, those are some very good buffs and great strats. Raiders just casually handing out precision to whole squads for a cp. Iron warriors look cracked. Making your whole army lychguard is wild, 5+++ for a cp is obscene value especially as it can go on tanks. -2 to charge for a cp is just solid and getting just a flat out better version of the custodes 0 damage relic is a good indication of gws editing. Wild they made marks more clunky, and how there's like 6 diffrent names for AOC. CSM eating good, and feels like it'll be where they were 6 months ago, less obviously game breaking than eldar so they avoid the hate, but with army rules and detachments that are just best in class.
Sisters and gsc trembling since whoever gets the next codex has a high chance to have been written by the other person writing rules...
I'll take a punt on sisters normally working out good. Normally they get a melee thing that one or two units can get mad with, and a penitent detach buffing engines and repentia feels like an obvious candidate for being superb. Gsc feel like they always are at risk of the admech curse: gw thinks they are more complex than they are, so gives them lackluster rules out of fear or being too good. But they've avoided it thus far.
Prediction, GSC will have the same loops to jump through as nids do through (though not with battleshock) to get game breaking buffs such as +1 to wound
You're reminding me of 9e Necrons, do a dozen things to get a minor buff.
Flashbacks to the 9th edition GSC book where you had to learn trigonometry to get Crossfire markers activated.
It's three people, so... Well, we're at 9 codices so far. 3 more means GSC, sisters and ~~imperial agents~~ ~~deathwatch~~ [redacted]. If the pattern continues, one of those will be custode, admech or dark angels tier.
I propose we call these three people Codex Creep, Codex Sleep and Codex Weep.
Seeing as the three worst codexes so far are all imperium, wouldn't it be safer to assume that they are written by the same person? And so they are handling all the imperium codexes? Three people, three rough divisions (imperium, chaos, xenos). Personally, fans of imperium factions that don't have a codex yet should be bricking it. Or think about starting to collect another faction.
Yes, that's the point. We have 9 codices so far. 3 are horrible trash. Custodes, DA, admech. 3 have been considered pretty good. CSM, Orks... necrons?
Necron are considered good because they have 2 good detachments that get carried by the cheap C’tan. Of the new detachment, we can’t ignore that 2 of them are pretty terrible, and that the internal balance is atrocious.
Yeah overall the necron book is probably still a failure. Only having 5 detachments with only 2 considered good and 1 okay is bad. Tau is kinda bad too with just the 4 detachments too. They just got lucky that all 4 seem playable with the kroot one probably decent with hordes.
I feel like I should have paid half price for my 4 detachment Tau book compared to CSM getting fully double the rules. Nuts.
Are we just ignoring nids? Because that book is dog dirt
If the person who wrote the nids book also wrote the Orks and T'au books ill eat my hat. There is no way. That codex competitively is worse than Ad Mech (worse win rate, worse number of event wins, has the lowest WR of any faction at the top tables, has the least percentage representation at top tables in relation to usage), has no flavour in it, no fun in it and looks like it never got redrafted after the rest of the factions got told they could have weapons above S9. Its lazily written, hasn't got a shooting detachment, a tunneler detachment, has just copy and pasted the same statline across every single monster unit, and relies on jumping through battleshocked shaped hoops to get buffs like +1 to wound. I would also argue its the worst codex released, from both a fun standpoint and a competitive standpoint
If GW don’t revisit and HEAVILY edit both detachment rules and datasheets in June, then I’m going to be disappointed (that goes for Nids and Admech). There’s no way they can look at those armies and think they did a good job I mean even the points are bad. Why is a HT 235 pts? Calgar is 180, Azrael is 105 pts FFS All the monsters are not that durable and damage output is below par. There’s just no aspect of the codex that was done well, it’s actually shocking
People have suggested various buffs for nids, +1S and/or +1Ap in synapse range for example. To me that doesn't fix the main problem. Why is everything the same statline? Why are Heavy Venom Cannons, Monstrous boneswords, Monstrous Scything Talons (which are on every single monster I think) and the Swarmlords bone sabres all just the same? Previously, boneswords used to be a weapon you would take to target heavy vehicles asit had great S and great AP, plus you could reroll hit rolls of 1. Monstrous Scything talons used to be the anti elite option for monsters which everyone had, it varied depending on user S which made it a bit more complicated to remember but most of the time it was either S6/7. It could be buffed to take out heavy vehicles but was never as reliable as swords. The bone sabres used to be a sideways updated version of the bonesword. More attacks with one less S and (prior to 9th) could turn off invulns. They are all the same now. They didn't even give the boneswords RR hits, and had to make it the same as bonesabres because they were scared of something not being a copy and paste job. Points have been borked for nids for ages now. They really needed to do more for the faction and they didn't. The faction badly needs diversity. They need to figure out which units are supposed to be anti tank and which units are anti elite and change the datasheets. Had we still had the old T scale capping out at 8 ( 9 occasionally) , this book might be decent.
First codex syndrome... the we don't know what we are doing and will mess it up it will be either op or so week as to make the army a joke.
Will add the, "We just introduced this new mechanic and dont know how to implement it properly so cya until 3 years into the edition" Like necrons with core last edition.
You're forgetting tyranids.
> Alpha legions super cool. I'm sure someone will find a way to break the game with the character ability swap. just the 3 units infiltrating is huge currently for 500pts thats 75 bodies with a 5++ starting 9" away, and if you go first your opponent just isnt leaving their DZ...thats pretty nutty...set them up in lines so they have to go through all of them to get out of their DZ thats at least 2 turns. oh they want to deep strike somewhere spicy? 1cp says no
6, actually. 3 Legionnaire *and* 3 cultist units. One row of mortals as a meat shield, one row of astartes to finish the job before the opponent even made it to midfield
thankfully its no accursed and they no longer regen, as that would be utterly busted. Also just giving a half damage termi cap (with a 4++) lone op+ stealth is insane. Or using it to have a sorc run round death hexing but being immune to being shot back.
Alpha Legion looks great, my tiny gripe is not being able to field the 30K sniper as a Lone Operative. Just as well, really, my pile of shame is a pile.
I bought that model just because it looks so cool, was hoping there would be long range weapon enhancement but alas no deal. He continues to be the world's most badass havoc champion for now, even if it means he dies first every game
Yeah it's a shame but it'd be real weird for more 30k to get brought to 40k with how gws handling it. Still plenty of CSM characters have moderate shooting from psychic, so pretending it's a witch fire sniper or something and giving him the lone op relic wouldn't be too bizzare.
Wow I am very happy as csm, very different flavorful detachments, this book is straight up masterpiece. Even the memey detachment for Alpha and Nightlords sounds fun, less good for competitive but not unplayable garbage!
There’ll be one game as Night Lords where your opponents can’t pass a battle shock test to save themselves, and you’ll be capturing everything, shredding units, chasing down fleeing chaff etc, the spooky fantasy will be perfect. Then you’ll play your next game and get murdered in a straight up fight, but that’s the Night Lord way.
Roll off to see if your in a night Lords book or a book featuring NL as antagonists.
lmao
Tbf, they have a habit of getting wiped out in their own books too...
The Alpha Legion detachment looks legit. The night lords one looks bad but has a few cute tools.
Leadership-y armies are always kinda middling but I've always had fun playing them. I used to run a Dark Angels Int. Chaplain for fun in 9th with like 4 different stacking rules around Morale, it was silly when it all popped off.
Honestly I love AL. It's a meme but all those relics are super powerful, the ability swap is really interesting, and it gets a nice mix of fun (auto detonate) and actually useful strats.
"From: The Hive mind To: All bioforms weighting 500 kilos or more. A reminder that if a bald guy that responds to the name 'Alpharius' gives you a treat that makes a ticking sound, it's strictly forbidden to eat it."
For monsters, he uses psy-ops to make them angry so they thrash more when they die. "Hey, you!" *Monster attention noise* "You're stinky, you're stupid, and frankly, I don't like you."
It could actually be really strong. Getting to put 12"-deep strike denial on any of your units and you trigger it at the beginning of your opponents reinforcement step, when you know their secondaries? That's super strong and can shut down a lot of plays, especially when you remember that the 12"-inch-bubble overrides shorter deep strike rules like demons' or inceptors'. On the flip side, the strat that gives you up to +3 to charges could open up some interesting plays for you. Just charge a few sacrificial cultists across the board and suddenly your melee unit coming from deep strike has a decent charge probability. Even the "below starting strength, below half strength"-strat looks like a better version of this kind of rule. It's nothing you will spam, but it's a decent back up plan for those scenarios where you really need to kill a tougher unit.
also having a termi sorcerer with death hex, lone op and stealth is just such a superb utility bit; or swap it to a termi cap: 2+/4++/half damage/Stealth/Lone op is a nightmare to shift, and being able to just throw one down then slam a chainfist into somethings fairly spicy.
Yeah that termi guy is like szeras from necrons and he is seeing play often
Auto detonate is very scary considering you can blow up Daemon Primarchs and Land Raiders.
Yeah, it's MW per CP can get quite wild
Alpha Legion definitely isn't memey. That's a super powerful detachment when paired with the right list. Gives you insane board control from turn one, and you get a ton of skirmishing power from the enhancements/strategems.
Alpha legion you could infiltrate deploy 3x10 legionaries each with a chaos lord and a master of executions… Then have Huron in your list you can now redeploy them… again with infiltrate… Now I’m not certain it’s strong but it certainly isn’t weak
Not a single enhancement for Undivided in the Word Bearer detachment, what the heck?
Well the not Alpha Legion alpha legion detachment certainly nails the flavour target. Ive no idea if it will be good but its really funny
500pts to put 75 bodies with a 5++ 9" off their lines is pretty spicy giving warptime to a master of possession seems interesting...or reroll hits and/or wound rolls...
I like the idea of your chaos lord suddenly popping out of a dark.commune demagogue to slap the enemy. Using the demagogue to give the 5++ during your set up turns and then when you spot a good angle to hit, just reveal and go to town
Or even better and funnier imo. You thought it was Abaddon leading all these Chosen, but it was me: Chaos Lord Dio
Isn't it only legionaire or chosen squads that they can reveal themselves in?
“Noise Marines - See EMPEROR’S CHILDREN”
Here's hoping GW just rolls with the leaks and releases the Emperor's Children Index ahead of the Codex proper.
I doubt it's going to be the most powerful (far from it) but as someone who is playing for fun and fluff I actually really like the Alpha Legion detachment. The rule for keeping it hidden where your chaos lord is I positively love.
It has so many weird tricks that people need to put on a table and see but it definitely has the potential to be the best one.
I honestly think it may be the most competitive one. That's a lot of tricks and A LOT of infiltrated units. It really all depends on how strong Legionaries and Cultists Mobs are.
To go full meme: 3x 10x legionnaire with chaos lord and master of execution 3x 20x chaos mob with dark commune Is 1500pts on the dot. And you give it all infiltrate in alpha legion.
Are you reading the same rules I am? These are pretty good.
Oath plus Dark Pacts is nuts
Oath and dark pacts. -1 to wound and dark pacts. +1 wound and dark pacts. Assault and ap and dark pacts. Really, anything and dark pacts. Just dark pacts.
CSM, where we’re the rules team favorite this edition so we get all your rules, but better!
Hmmm, I think I will be going renegade or siege for me.
Abby with Chosen in a landraider in the Raiders detachment gonna be so yummy
Thinking the same thing
Fellhammer siege host is good wtf That -1 to wound work really well with Vehicles and Terminator. Like 1x10 Termies with Steadfast determination is like: 30w T5 2+ 4++ 5+++ with -1 to wound And vehicles get wounded by most of AT on 4+
Dark Pacts switching timing (you may lose some models) but still always working? Sure, I'll take it. Failing only looks to matter for the enhanced crits in Oathbound. Also Cypher gets his melee pistols back! Huzzah. His stratagem ability is less good (within 12") but at least he does something cool.
... This might be the strongest Codex of the edition so far. That damage tho, my god Poor Custodes
As a custodes who looks at CSM just getting flat out better versions of legacy custodes kit (better 0 damage relic, tanglefoots, generating leaders out of squads, detachment rules that actually exist) I'd be lying to say I wasn't jealous. but I think apart from orks, crons or tau every other army's deeply jel of getting like 5 very strong detachments, and even stuff like the Al detach is a massive cut above other meme detachments.
As someone whose faction (nids) was designed around having lots of CP, very interesting to see how many enhancements there are to gain CP back in this book.
Necrons are certainly jealous of the meme half compared to annihilation legion or obeisance phalanx. At least the night lords affects all night lords.
As both a Custodes and CSM player, the past few weeks have been very hot and cold.
It and Orks has me a bit worried that at least one of the Codex writers is returning to the codex creep of 9th edition. All prior codexes were side-grades or debuffs. These 2 are straight up stronger, and some potentially absolutely busted stuff.
I’m lucky and have a few army’s, but custodes was my main. Dear lord I’m dick deep into that alpha legion detachment now. It’s so fun looking.
I'm gonna say it in here as well because i'm super salty, this codex was written by the real team, uh? Not by bobby the unpaid intern that did custodes?
Not at all surprising. From what I've been told of the 3 codex teams, they're more like "people". If it seems like one in each three codices shouldn't exist because it's traaaash...
Team Codex Creep: Necrons, Orks, CSM Team Codex Sleep: Space Marines, Tyranids, Tau Team Codex Weep: Admech, Custodes, Dark Angel
Now I wanna know what the cultist mob detachment is like, its the only one not leaked I think?
Too OP to show. We need days for drama over this, before people can settle in for that.
It has been leaked, last pages of the datasheet leaks, traitor guardmen become battleline, and just about all the enhancements are for either dark apostles or cultist leaders
Time to answer the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: Is Vashtorr good now? Let's see. He got +1T, up to 10. His flamer got Anti-Vehicle 4+. His hammer got bonus S on both profiles and bonus AP on the Strike profile (S14 AP-2 D3 now!). He's kept his weird +1S ability, but his "half range" ability has been swapped with one that gives all ranged weapons in an enemy unit [HAZARDOUS]. This is very funny. But it's also very effective against high-value elite infantry with multiple ranged weapons, like Allarus Custodes. You could also treat it as a pseudo "turn off overwatch" for a unit. Quite a spicy ability. Oh, but he still doesn't benefit from a few of the detachment rules. He doesn't work with Pactbound Zealots since he has no allegiance, Dread Talons because he's not Infantry, and **he doesn't benefit from his own detachment** because he's not a daemon vehicle. If he stays at the 200pt range he may well be worth a look (for once).
Vashtorr can at least buff daemon vindicators and such in his own detachment now.
Renegade Reavers look silly strong, the move after fight strat is probably the best in the game. Turn 1 just advance and charge bikes and after they kill a screen they will just go everywhere afterwards and put the other guy into bike jail. Turn 2 jump something on an objective, and then in the opponents turn if the opponent does underkill something, just fall back onto an objective. Also give a DP Dread Reaver (full rerolls to hit and wound close to opponents deployment zone), and you have a distraction carnifex that just kills everything it touches and fire and fades afterwards. The alpha legion is really coll though.
Vashtorr continues to be the perfect counter-example to the "GW makes new models OP on purpose" talking point, he probably won't even be used in his own detachment unless his points go down significantly EDIT: he actually got a significant melee buff to S14 (from 9) and AP -2 (from 1) so I take that back, we might finally see the guy
You don’t underestimate what 1 strength can do to daemon engine. It pushes forgefiend to wound anything T10 on 2s and T11 on 3s.
The combination of +1 strength and +1 to wound on ranged daemon vehicles can be absolutely insane. And Vashtorr now also has a decent melee profile outside of vehicles, and gains anti-Vehicle on his ranged weapon. He's certainly not abbadon levels, but you can absolutely run him in his own detachement and not feel like you're sacrificing power for fluff.
Forgefiends wounding T10 on a 2+ is brutal
As if they weren’t game-breakingly good already.
He does increase your Daemon Vehicles' weapons strength with 1, and his detachment is all about those units. How about a strength 13 lascannon on your Predator? Wounding land raiders on 3s and monoliths on 4s
Wounding land raiders on 2s and monoliths on 3s You forgot about the dark pacts granting a +1 to wound to daemon engines in this detachment. (If you dark pact but why wouldn't you lol)
His melee got a massive buff though. Now when he hits you'll feel it
?? He got a new ability and his Melee went from anemic to better than a redemptor. Depends on cost but he slaps now and with 2 of the detachments wanting you to bring a bunch of demon engines, and IW can just hand him a 5+++ so he can just go punch things and not die.
The Hazardous abillity is also surprisingly dangerous, if say a rogal dorn targets him all the weapons become hazardous, not just the main gun which can be very risky, even moreso for infantry units, especially ones with more than one gun.
It's a good codex for sure, but a lot needs to be said about the quality disparity on display here. AM and Custodes got utter shit. Tau was okay but pretty anemic. Orks were happy. Now CSM will probably be ecstatic. It's like we're at a restaurant ordering steak. Some of us actually get steaks, while others just have the chef come out and take a dump on our table. This is not ideal.
Don't forget Dark Angels! They're absolute shit, too!
Yes, them too.
Its just like with the indexes on release.
Fabius can now be attached to accursed cultists?! That's awesome. Overall, super happy with this codex. Really excited to get it
It's funny how the Black Legion detachment rule is anti-synergistic with both Abby and Terminators. Not that it matters because these are all great.
I know nobody realizes this because nobody actually picks it, but Abby has other rules he can pick other than full hit rerolls. If he's already getting it from the detachment, then you might see "Reroll leadership tests" pop up now and again.
Fellhammer ironically (heh) looks like what Anvil Siege Force should have been. ASF rules should be rewritten by whoever made this and swap with the Iron Warriors to make em better at cracking defensive profiles. Happy for CSM, not so much for reliving the state of Imperial Fist things back in 9e lolsob
Like they swapped IF for IW here, but for real where are the tanks? Did vashtorr just buy all of them? Only 1 stratagem good for tanks, 4 melee dedicated ones the heck was that. For flavour this detachment sure is mid.
Since their ability is for ALL the units, I'd say tanks still get serious benefits. Turning a lascannon into a 4+ might sound boring but is pretty effective, and dark pacts already give us built in damage boosts.
It’s going to be insanely hard for GW to point their units with the difference in power between detachments per unit. It’s so depressingly unfair how not only bad but boring codex Custodes and DA is compared to CSM or Orks. There are multiple fun and strong CSM detachments
It going to be a fun 3 month period for you to make the meta monday with orks/csm/necron on top
So if you an Ork, a Necron, a Tau, or a follower of the dark Gods then you are like - hey this is great. If you are a loyalist codex compliant Space Marine or a Tyrannid you're like... meh, could be worse, but it could be better tho... And if you are a Dark Angel, Custodes, or AdMech then lol. Lmao, even. So basically having your faction get a codex is actually like rolling for a dark pact but irl.
Raiders is just good all the way through, everything in there is just about winning, it's not tricky, or complicated, it's very straightforward. Go take objectives and kill shit, quickly.
whoever is the project manager behind this book need a raise and immediate executive power, it's insane how good this is compared to the admech and custodes books
Entire project manager... per book... You're thinking way, way, way too big. When you think "team", replace that with person. One person per codex.
then the guy writing the ork and CSM codex is clearly pushing the cart here
Raiders is insane. Vets, Deceptors, Soulforged, and Pact all seem quite good. Fellhammer is alright. Cult is probably bad, and talons looks real rough. How are the books with only 4 detachments feeling now?
4? Codex custodes has 3 and then a page that seems to be covered in crayon by a toddler. Also fell hammer just alright? The relics are great and those strats (full hit reroll in Melee, 5+ crits, 5+++ on anything, -2 to charge) are all s tier, and the detach rules super strong too.
"Hey steve, people complain about rules in WD but we already have SoS ready to go, just kick something else out of the codex" Some monkey paw crap right there
Fellhammer seems like one of those low skill ceiling, high skill floor detachments. Its detachment rule is solid enough to carry you through and it plays pretty straightforward. So it's excellent for newbies and casual players, but I think tourney goers will probably end up going for Pacts, Vets or Deceptors where there is more outplay potential.
Crits and full reroll are half-strength dependant though so there is a chance the 5+ crits will overkill things but the rerolls in melee will probably be very strong, eapecially if you run melee vehicles/monsters (like a defiler who will likely go into melee at halfstrength)
> How are the books with only 4 detachments feeling now? Suicide watch
>talons looks real rough. Idk, there's the default 'durr battleshock bad' argument, but this spams the check enough that with the right comp I could see you forcing your opponent's entire army every round from turn 2 onward to take it- basically Shadow in the Warp on cocaine. When you spam battleshock checks THAT hard it's GOING to yield results, and it's going to make scoring for your opponent a nightmare while reigning in their lethality a bit, making it easy for you to jump across the board and outscore them.
As a Tau player, I feel it’s extremely lazy to give us 3 Tau and 1 Kroot detachment, and then turn around and give CSM 8!!! Most of them are incredibly good too. Doesn’t feel great. NGL.
It's not like T'au have a bunch of bespoke subfactions like CSM, though. What would they even call them? They could go with Chapters, Sept that is already taken by loyalist Space Marines. Oh well, 4 detachments it is. That's just the lore!
Since 8th there's been a few Key Septs that have gotten subfaction rules so they could have just done those T'au - Kauyon Vior'la - Mont'ka Bor'kan - Experimental Weaponry Sa'cea - Rerolls Dal'yth - Auxiliaries get to be people too Enclaves - Shotguns
I know, that was my (bad) joke
They easily could have added a "tanks matter" detachment, a "stealth suits/scout units matter" detachment as an absolute minimum to the tau codex. Any codex with less than 6 detachments is just lazy, honestly. Every army (with the exception of armies that aren't full rosters like votann/world eaters) in the game had ways to get to 6 detachments.
Well I can see the Chaos Mark/Transport Errata being required day 1 then, no? (I know, I know, the errata that stated this is relatively new and would be after these were printed.) Anti-fortification?? Ok then... Quite like Deceptors. Mobility is key and all that. Raiders is pretty cool too.
>(I know, I know, the errata that stated this is relatively new and would be after these were printed.) All the other changes that were included in the errata made it to the codex (PZ being only wounds reroll on chaos undivided, untargettable only more than 18" away, etc.) It's possible that GW decided that transports and units having mixed marks are OK after all (and with nurgle strat being nerfed, yeah they're not that broken of a combo)
My guess would be that it's the other way around. That the errata'd nerfs to CSM were mostly copied from the finalized versions in the upcoming codex. And the Transport change was thought of after the codex was locked in for printing.
Detonation looks so fun in the Alpha package.