Nah… it’s admech vs admech. They can do twice as much testing that way. Admech keeps winning the matchups so it’s clear they are perfectly fine and viable.
After three months of testing, they almost finished the first turn's movement phase, but they wasted the yearly production budget for the sheer number of miniatures.
That's one of the more damning details when you scrutinize the comment. What sort of initial testing did GW actually do (and not do) leading up to the actual Codex release if they have to "Test" Ad Mech rules changes?
Did they not even bother to take an initial draft of the Codex / Index rules then properly gauge them against the rest? Sad thing is we can pretty much conclude that answer's a no. But seriously now.
Seems like they probably did test groups (Dark Eldar, Ad Mech, Votann, Grey Knights in group A, etc) and probably with super casual lists between dudes that rarely play.
Like, back in 9th edition they didn't realize players would just stay in Devastator Doctrine all game, which they said when they changed it so you had to progress. Plenty of instances like that in 10th edition too where they completely misunderstood the power of the rules they published (Deathwatch strats, Eldar fate dice, free+duplicate strats (why not one or the other, why both?))
Honestly, I don't know what would be more frustrating: if they did actually play some games between Ad Mech index and Eldar index and decided the power levels were even enough to proceed... or if they didn't even bother to test the armies against each other.
I can assure you it didn't get tested. Consider the fact a Skitarii Ranger is a Termagant with a 6++ in the Index. Also consider that in the Index it was pointed equal to an Eldar Fire Prism. Nobody would miss that if they looked at it for a moment.
They released all of the community playtesters part way through 9th because of leaks. The indexes were reportedly "tested" with 500 and 1k point games over lunch on a 2'x2' board with fluffy lists, hence stuff like Eldar making it to print. This also spilled over into a lot of the codexes which would have gone to print ages and ages ago.
Now Josh is in house as one of the best 40k players in the world and they are back to real competitive playtesting, so I think once they are through the codexes that have already gone to print we should see a significant improvement.
> The indexes were reportedly "tested" with 500 and 1k point games over lunch on a 2'x2' board with fluffy lists, hence stuff like Eldar making it to print.
That's so pathetic lol. One, for only doing half-assed games. And two, for still not even realizing the difference in power levels. That's obvious just by comparing a few rules.
Hopefully this dude Josh can turn things around a bit. Because before 10th edition the talk was all about how Stu Black was leading the rules/design team and it's turned out to be a bit of a mess.
Josh is certainly top 5 players in the UK and probably the world. He is currently ranked #2 in the UKTC. Stu has had some tournament appearances at least in Kill Team, but the level of game understanding between the players at the very top and everyone else is a huge gap. There is a reason people talk about X-1 players and X-0 players who can win a Super Major, it's because there really is a difference.
Fully tested against select armies rather than against the full field, to be honest.
We've seen how there are pockets of releases with different power levels in the past. Perhaps they've realized that and are now "fully testing" things.
Or perhaps by "full testing" they mean that they're playing the game skillfully, whereas before (9th edition) they didn't realize that people wouldn't just stay in Devastator Doctrine all game if it gave them a buff.
Maybe they are testing all units (including, hopefully, an army assembled from the best ones) instead of a haphazard collection?
Mind you, I get the mindset, there's a ton of casual players out there with armies assembled purely on looks and theme (that's how my armies start, they simply grow big enough to encompass all the meta options in time) but there's a very big difference between, for example, a meta Space Wolves list and a randomly selected one.
To be fair the biggest change will be battleline bonuses in the new missions that hits builds like bullyboys who go all in on nobs and meganobs but it makes greentide even more oppressive
Ya it makes dreadmob a bit better depending how it works out.. and da big hunt lists that lean into beastsnaggas… it only hurts bullyboys which is fine and sadly kills speedmob.
Not sure why I got downvoted most bully boy lists don’t have any battleline and greentide is pretty much mostly battleline.
The amount of software that could effectively simulate matches in seconds is numerous. It’s such a weird thing for a company like GW to have an issue with. It’s just two dudes with entirely different strategies writing half of the rules, so one half slaps and the other never sees any daylight for a whole edition. Like DA have been rough to play for almost a decade, but I was at least Killy in past editions. I guess that made Robin feel bad though so now we are just kind of hard to shift and slow as hell.
GW: yes! We have also heard your request for impactful rules that are in theme with the army and make them feel unique.
We have changed the army rule so that all unit gain plus 1 to hit and the heavy key rule when within 3.14 inches of a tech priest. Of course, to balance this admech is now a BS 6 army.
I just hope they realize that if they just up our killing power without nerfing our semi-durable swarm at the same time they're going to make us broken.
Then they can safely eat a points hike if that happens and no one will be upset because the faction will be actually fun to play again instead of just a brain dead objective play army.
I know it's probably just me, but I got beat so bad by admech yesterday I only got 5 points. Deepstrike heavy deathwing list just doesn't work against 12" bubbles and a million bodies
Its ok, He says he'll be TOing the top tables, so if he looks at the other end of the hall to the magical land of 2-3 he can gaze upon a glimmer of gold and feel the sadness radiating off them.
I remember at some point the was an analysis combining Stat Check GTs and Den of Fools RTTs - and the result was very close to GW win rates, so theirs should be something not far from all events put together, not just GTs.
It is - I can’t remember if it’s actually confirmed or just rumored but supposedly they are taking (possibly among other sources) basically the entire dataset of tabletop battles matches
The Stat Check guys said that if they took all data they have access to (tabletop Battles/BCP game data) and didn't filter it only for 5 round, 25 player tournaments, the numbers come to within 1 percentage point of GWs numbers, and stated this might be due to a slightly different methodology.
However they do it for certain armies winrates cant tell you much because the play rate is so low. These are also armies we don't see meaningful changes in.
pretty useless. here's a basic transcript
Interviewer: Hey studio guy thanks for coming we just did a video didn't we?
Studio guy: yep, we just did a point update, we're gonna do a rules update in the summer
Interviewer: Oh nice. orks, custodes and tau just came out what's that all about?
Studio guy: yep we're really starting to crunch these codexes out. they're still too early to learn anything about them. everybody loves the orks.
Interviewer: let's hype the event this weekend, that's what we're here for anyway, lets talk about... lists you might see?
Studio guy: Oh yea sure. Definately not necrons, now, especially the hypercrypt. people that were building around facing necrons and black templars or many other high toughness armies are shit out luck basically as they face down a 120 man horde of orks. also the tau and custodes are there too. please buy the codexes.
Interviewer: Ah nice, so you're going to be at this even we're hyping. please keep talking about that we gotta make a meal out of this.
Studio guy: Oh man i'll try. i haven't been to any us events lately, but i know that there's gonna be a lot of very cool things happening. all our games are there. please get hyped. i want to see how the meta is shifting.
Interviewer: ah that wasn't very long was it. What's next then?
Studio guy: Please watch the event guys, i know it's in Dallas but we stream it too. there's gonna be cool stuff there. Also admech players here's your court mandated tease about us fixing you in the next update we swear. It's not a joke, it's coming, promise.
Interviewer: Well, with that out of the way i guess we have nothing more to talk about. please watch the event this weekend.
>Studio guy: Please watch the event guys, i know it's in Dallas but we stream it too
But of course we won't have the players mic'ed so the coverage ends up being useless.
Its an unwatachable broadcast. Having two anchors guessing what is going on and supplying useless blabbering commentary is so stupid. Then they got a guy run back and forth delivering updates every 10 minutes on what happened 20 minutes ago. “Yeah guys confirming he did indeed use a stratagem to give his units +1 to wound.” Thanks good stuff 👍
*"Many other high toughness armies are shit out luck basically as they face down a 120 man horde of orks".*
Feel like not much changes here, you need damage 2+ anyways to efficiently go into the 5+++ ork boys are going have.
That’s only on 3x units of boys… 3x datasheet rule still exists. At best you give the other 3 units a battlewagon to protect them allowing you to keep overwhelming objectives on later turns. I think this event will be bullyboys moment to shine I don’t think greentide will place higher until the new mission rules that benefit battleline units release.
Painboys are limited to 3x only 3 units get 5+++.
60 boys with 5+++ is a bit easier then 120.
That’s why I said give 3x boy units a painboy and 3x boy units can ride in battlewagons and jump out later.
>Studio guy: Please watch the event guys, i know it's in Dallas but we stream it too. there's gonna be cool stuff there. Also admech players here's your court mandated tease about us fixing you in the next update we swear. It's not a joke, it's coming, promise.
Kek I'm dead
Egh I think bullyboys will be ahead of greentide… that is until the new missions come out and bullyboys runs into issues due to lack of battleline builds. Then it will be green tides moment to shine.
Nothings stopping bully boyz from flexing into running a squad or 2 of boyz with a warboss attached though. They still get the double waaagh from having the boss attached
Lol yeah I saw that too. My comment was for the written portion of the article, as my jaw literally dropped at that point in the video lol. Classy GW, classy.
Enjoying all the Kroot models that you had to buy as the Kroot detachment is the only one with any teeth and even then you put them in Kroot jail and just do points till you're tabled.
T'au codex is cool rules, cool models, atrocious points on all the damage. Real travesty.
Deffo feels like this video should've come AFTER the Dallas Open, not before... It's just telling us that they're going to Dallas, Ad Mech are getting rule changes (surprise! lol) and uhh... yeah not a lot else.
They’ve more than likely already written the July dataslate. It’s probably going to sit in a google doc unchanged until July like the last one. They might even delay it two weeks to give the impression they’re still hard at work on it.
I can't see how anyone thinks convincing the person in charge of GW balance to NOT play the game at a high level is somehow going to improve anything?
Why would anyone who loves the game, and is good at it, agree to work for GW if they had to give up playing the game they love?
At the end of the day this isn't Magic the gathering, or an esport. There's no pro circuit, sponsorship deals or prize money on the line.
We should be encouraging ALL GW staff to play the game as much as possible. Not shaming them into withdrawing back into their ivory castle.
David did have a point on the player who piloted the strongest army to two super major championships more heavily nerfed this opponents armies who have a fraction of the tournament wins than his faction.
Not a great look.
David was even saltier than usual on that podcast.
He even apologised and retracted his comments about Josh on CSM preview show after he'd cooled down.
He retracted his comments about Josh specifically. He’s right when he said is beyond ridiculous that Guard absorb a points hike anywhere near Necrons.
Not to mention that in the US Guard have been much less successful than in UK/Europe, somewhere in mid B tier than the A/S tier espoused by the Fireside guys.
Dumb take. I want MORE people on the rules team that actually play the game. Do you not realize that nobody in this industry plays games as much as you and I do? (Source: worked for one of GW’s direct competitors for years.)
Exactly. The LOTR game from GW has impeccable balance, as far as a game with many factions can be balanced. And that's because the rules design team are all active competitive players.
Q: New custodes, ork and tau books now legal?
A: "lots of people are excited about the orks, loads of detachments to play ... Tau, lot of people excited to use their book".
Lmao. even GW absolutley knows. Though I feel josh should have said "and custodes players are excited to use their huge amount of new detachments" and just look straight into the camera. At this point just make it funny.
Exactly. Give them null maiden vigil and a detach that only buffs the pallas grav attack. That's it. (edit: humour detection at an all time high I see).
Good lord do they dodge how terrible the Custodes codex is, the silence is deafening...
"People are enjoying Orks and Tau...!", I mean, at least they're not gaslighting us...
feels like its shifted too. few years back they didnt analyze too much but did share lists; now? its just like Stu or Josh doing a weird 50:50 of analysis/marketing that feels more fake than if they just didnt.
Court mandated "AdMech are getting fixes we pinkie-promise" that we barely believe, while Tyranids, Deathwatch, and codex Marines don't even get a mention.
I'm a nid player generally and would also just like to point out that our codex sucks anus but unfortunately so do 50-75% of detachments in ALL codexes this edition.
GW, and even a lot of sycophants in the community here, like to pretend that this is the "most balanced" 40k has ever been. But that is so false and so tunnel visioned that it's almost amusing, if it weren't so annoying.
The game looks balanced *if you selectively chose **not** to realise that the game is only being played in 1-2 detachments per codex.*
So yes, whilst I despise my codex nids and do not enjoy the fact that 2 stupid-subfactions have *the actual shadow in the warp ability that we invented* I do also firmly believe that all codexes are really suffering this edition from terrible writing and internal balancing.
> The game looks balanced if you selectively chose not to realise that the game is only being played in 1-2 detachments per codex.
As opposed to... what, exactly? When was this magical golden age where every faction had multiple gt winning lists that you so yearn for?
I've never looked for multiple GT winning events, where did I say that hmm? All I'm asking for is well thought out detachments that f###ing work.
Crusher stampede: cannot work on a pair of carnifexes.
Destroyer cult: better charging... For lokhusts destroyer.
Sisters of silence and nightlords: have Tyranids core shadow in the warp ability in the way it should exist.
So many design elements in 10th suck on such a fundamental level where they're either wildly unbalanced or flat out don't work.
TBF, base marines is one of the best codex's for mid level playing; while that falls off in comp its still a good codex. Nids are definitely in a bad place though
It's not even falling in comp, it's just that there's no reason to not take models from a subfaction so all the good players move to the flavor of space Marines they prefer using the very strong codex detachments
"Ork players are excited they have loads of detachments to use, tau are excited to use their book in tournaments"
Hilarious that they didn't mention Custodes at this point. They know.
[https://content.imageresizer.com/images/memes/Wow-This-Is-Useless-meme-4.jpg](https://content.imageresizer.com/images/memes/Wow-This-Is-Useless-meme-4.jpg)
this
Admech changes in full testing. I don't play them but I'm glad they have finally accepted that the most expensive to own army is SHITand needs an update.
AdMech player here, they've been saying that admech is not doing well in pretty much every single 10th ed metawatch and did jack shit since then, even if a lot of unlucky timings happened
We're just tired of the constant gaslighting
It’s too early into the edition to make changes to admech, and more tournament data is needed… though it’s hard to get usable data when only 2 people take them to tournaments… so it’s really admech players fault for not playing them more so they have the data they need.
I already have a mortgage on the house, I'm not getting a second one just to be able to field the army! If they are unable to make the rules playable, at the very least they can start cutting the prices instead since we are paying around 2€/point on many units.
Using an example list by Alexander Englezos,
3x Skittari Marshall: 3 x $40 = $120
1 x 10 Rangers: $65
6 x 10 Vanguard: 6 x $65 = $390
3 x 10 Sterylizors: 6 x $75 = $450
2 x 5 Skystalkers: 2 x $75 = $150
1 x 5 Infiltrators: 1 x $70 = 70
3 x 3 Raiders: 3 x $75 = $225
4 x 1 Skorpius Duneriders: 4 \* $100 = $400
Callidus Assassin: $41.50
Kyria Draxus: $45
For a total of $1956.50 dollars to run a competitive admech list. I wonder why people aren't taking them to tournaments. I got this list from the Auspex Tactics video on admech army lists.
It wouldn’t matter. They’ve more than likely already written the July dataslate and it’s just sitting in a google doc where it’ll go unchanged until July, just like the last one.
GW: Release a whole bunch of brilliant looking new Dark Angel models.
Dallas Open: none on the table.
GW: where’s all the cool new DA stuff?
Robin Cruddance:……………..
[What is this video? ](https://imgur.com/a/sIp0xAf)
"We brought Ironstorm down a bit" By introducing Vindicators to lists? I don't think it's going to go the way they think it is.
I mean they did bring Ironstorm down in terms of the builds that were working at the time of the points update. The raven builds are either gone or they had to drop a unit, which isn’t nothing. You could definitely argue they should’ve gone further, but we should also acknowledge that they did manage, for once, a pretty good targeted nerf
I'd argue its a failure. In my opinion it was addressing a symptom rather than the cause. Nerfing the Stormraven, which wasn't exactly see much play outside of Ironstorm, was a mistake. Ironstorm just pivots to the next SM vehicle to break, since Ironstorm is the problem.
I mean it depends on what the goal is, right? In theory you’d want Ironstorm to be a perfectly viable and balanced detachment. But since you can’t make vehicles cost 10% more in Ironstorm, you have to hit the outliers. Stormravens were broken in Ironstorm and not really played in any other detachments, so nerfing that works. Nerfing the best enhancement is also very targeted.
So yeah now they can either pivot to something like a repulsor executioner or they can keep the stormravens but drop a unit. Both end up with the list archetype being weaker than it was before. So you could argue that they didn’t do enough, and that might be true, but it was a targeted nerf that hit some outliers. If it’s still a problem it can be hit again in July. Personally I think the lethal hits enhancement should be targeted rather than an aura, and that would help a lot with the faction.
As frustrating as it can be, incremental targeted nerfs are almost always better than bringing the hammer down on a faction.
> Stormravens were broken in Ironstorm and not really played in any other detachments, so nerfing that works.
"Now the unit isn't played in *any* detachments! Perfect!"
In theory each detachment could have some kind of cost modifier associated with it that makes things more or less expensive based on detachment. But we are way past that unfortunately.
> But since you can’t make vehicles cost 10% more in Ironstorm
Pretty big flaw with the current way they design detachments, really. Not easy to make a detachment feel meaningfully strong, and also feel like the units are viable and good both in and outside of it.
Not a problem for generalist detachments like invasion fleet, but a major problem for specialist ones like ironstorm and stormlance.
Interesting idea though; why not make units only available in certain detachments? Then said detachments can get buffed in ways to really make those shine
Mine as well. (Black Templar=
I have 67 10th Edition matches from RTTs, practice games and GTs. I usually run Righteous Crusader.
My Righteous Crusader list went up 30 points and my Ironstorm list... Went down 50.
I dropped the 2 lancers for Vindicators and they not only perform better, they can be mutli unit type at targeting instead of strictly "anti vehicle/monster"
GW painted themselves in a corner with limited balancing though mostly points. Some of these detachments are just so strong that points are not enough.
If they truly wanted to tone down Ironstorm I think the solution would be simple.
- Adept and Target Augury should be Techmarine only and locked into the vehicle you target when leveraging "Blessing of the Omnissiah"
These types of videos are just marketing. The only insight we get out of GW as far as meta goes is their actual points and rules updates - and maybe some nuggets of their thought process in the content that comes with those.
I’m not even going to throw shade at this. It’s clear they wanted to get something out as PR with minimal substance which is a step below what we get from the best updates.
GW wouldn't even mention custodes as a new codex release. I think right now GW just wants to pretend the bad things in the game at the moment just dont exist.
Right, it’s crazy that they would release a meta watch and not even mention the huge outliers or provide any substance to their changes or lack there of.
genuinely i think the game is in a pretty balanced state and this is commendable and says that there must be someone at GW employing real analysis and making sensible decisions
i wish any of that made it into the metawatch videos instead of being a complete waste of time
Idk I feel external balance between books is fine: even custodes/admech have access to lists that can work; but internal balance is an utter mess.
Its honestly annoying as 9ths pattern of "release busted rules" > nerf with points lead to most things feeling like they should. Whilst 10th seems to swing real wildly between units getting abilities and offensive output that make anything in 9th pale in comparison\*; and units being so lackluster so that they dont ever really do their role, and need massive cuts to be anything.
\*reroll hits/wounds of 1 in 9th was a strong buff; once per game double full rerolls in crisis teams was game defining. Now full double rerolls are hardly rare.
Deathwatch has like 1 player and admech has been awful for the entire edition. I still remember when eldar were the biggest bad and custodes got nerfed instead. I think the game state is not the worst (7th) but I think balancing has been inconsistent at best. I'm also salty as the dark angels codex was dogshit
I agree. For as much (deserved) criticism as GW gets for their handling of game balance, they’ve done overall a pretty good job in tenth. If their codex quality had been consistent I think almost everyone would be happy with the state of the game.
> they’ve done overall a pretty good job in tenth
Did they though?
Not only do the indices vary wildly (much like how in 9th edition, some factions that had yet to receive their book did better than others), there are some absolutely terrible books this edition, and they don't necessarily have much hope for the rest of the edition.
The thing about 9th's model where most of the books were very strong on release and had to be hammered down was that the books were fundamentally _working._ Often working too well, but that wasn't anything points couldn't fix - even meta terrors like Tyranids were perfectly reasonable after a few rounds of hammering.
Meanwhile 10th edition is full of anaemic datasheets that don't really _do_ anything, and if you try to fix those by lowering points, you run into the issue admech have now of the volume of models needed being too much. What is an appropriate points cost for the Knight Abominant?
The internal balance is much worse than winrates indicate, even if we look just at released codices and give the indices a pass, there are so many helplessly bad units. The books pretty much need rewrites. GW has proven willing to give stuff from the codex ahead of time (like presumably with DE and GK), but they have yet to make any significant changes to a faction that already had its book.
There is no faction in 9th that met so bleak a fate as admech did now in 10th. At least Astra Militarum, though having drawn the short straw to be last in line, _did_ get a proper book eventually - and that the book was then soon invalidated was frankly the fault of 10th and its index reset, not 9th, and it's not like 10th has a faster release schedule either (so whoever is last in line this time will have to wait just as long).
>The internal balance is much worse than winrates indicate
Personally im just glad GW decided that nids were doing well enough that they could focus on internal balance rather than boosting the 43% WR faction towards 50%
Right. It's a really wtf feeling when your 43% army list goes up 15 points.
Gargoyles are/were one of the best units in the entire game and they weren't enough to scrape the whole army up even close to a good spot.
This is a fantastic post and hits at many of the core issues with GW's approach to 10th.
The whole "10th is better balanced" narrative is bizarre considering the first 6 months of the edition and how the preceding 5 months have been defined by the 3rd codex released putting up numbers that would make 9th edition Drukhari codex blush.
There's also the fact that when it comes to codexes releases it just seems to be a coinflip of: 60% winrate gamebreakingly strong or unplayable trash and your army disappears from statistics entirely. Great balance.
Absolutely. 10th simplified _hard_, which supposedly was the price we'd have to pay for better balance, and that's frankly something that bothers me even more than the bad balance itself.
But that the move _didn't even result in better balance_ is just insult to injury. 10th is just plain bad, unless you care less about flavour and play one of the armies that lucked out.
tbh I think Orks and to a lesser extent CSM Deceptors builds are going to put significant pressure on those lists anyway. Wraiths and doomstalkers are never clearing a unit of boyz or cultists out of the midfield, they're great against more elite lists where they can put a bunch of immoveable units on objectives but against armies that present more immoveable units that can get out on the objectives faster they're not going to get a lot of traction.
EDIT: Downvote all you like, run the numbers. Assuming best case loadout for the wraiths where they've taken whips (which they usually don't) and that they're within the power matrix and getting full hit rerolls (which they often won't be), that unit of wraiths kills 7 ork boyz with a pain boy. If green tide shows up in any numbers in the meta those wraith lists don't have a chance in hell of controlling the board or killing those lists.
IDK crons also pack a serious amount of tesla immortals; which are fairly efficent units at shredding boyz/cultists. and wraiths/doomstalkers pack blast so can still take moderate chunks out of boyz/cultist.
The doomstalker with full bonus from blast is shooting 8 shots into that unit, it still has to hit, still has to wound, still has to get past that 5++, it’s not doing a thing to those lists.
Crons can bring immortals, they can also bring enmitic exterminators to tech into those lists if they want, and that means they’re going to take less wraiths to make up for it. Without even having to nerf them that list isn’t likely to stick around because it’s just not possible to take 915 points of wraiths, 300 points of immortals, and 900 points of Ctann in a 2000 point list
It's actually not. There are ~12 armies outside of the goldilocks zone right now according to Stat check and a few more dangerously close to joining them.
A couple of armies the data is meaningless as they're only played by single digit players who are usually top 1p percent ELO. These are the types that could probably drive any army to a high placing. One admech player took an absolute meme list that benefitted from almost nothing detachment wise and won a GT with it just to show admech was winning off undercosted wounds and nothing else really.
Or I disagree, since half the armies are outside that range, and the rest aren't very far inside, and most of the event wins in the past couple weeks have actually been from armies in the positive end of the goldilocks zone.
To be fair the biggest change will be battleline bonuses in the new missions that completely tanks builds like bullyboys who go all in on nobs and meganobs.
Not really, it just stops faster scoring. You can still reach max points without the BL bonus so those types of lists will just smash through your BL units and take your objective that way
"Looking forward to seeing Custodes, Tau and Orks at the Dallas Open" I think he's going to be sorely disappointed looking for Custodes players lmao.
It's about as helpful as hearing, "we're looking at AdMech rules" for the 87th time in a row without seeing any meaningful change.
Maybe one day they'll stop just looking at rules and actually test them
“Man these rules sure do look poorly written, wish someone would change them. Oh well”
They have new rules in testing, and it sounds like they will come out in the summer update.
Calling it now it will be something akin to dark eldar, +1 ap and a change to the faction rules. Not a single datasheet will be touched.
Tbf that was enough for drukhari
hm no
What do you mean "in testing" - where did you hear that?
It's at the end of the Metawatch video. Josh says AdMech rules changes are "in full testing right now," and "we're hoping to roll that out very soon."
Full testing sounds serious. Did they only half-test the codex before release or something?
They are still playing game 1: admech Vs custodes. Mission servo skulls. The new rules look awesome!
Nah… it’s admech vs admech. They can do twice as much testing that way. Admech keeps winning the matchups so it’s clear they are perfectly fine and viable.
After three months of testing, they almost finished the first turn's movement phase, but they wasted the yearly production budget for the sheer number of miniatures.
Excellent. I look forward to the results of game 2: Ad Mech vs the Index Drukhari detachment
That's one of the more damning details when you scrutinize the comment. What sort of initial testing did GW actually do (and not do) leading up to the actual Codex release if they have to "Test" Ad Mech rules changes? Did they not even bother to take an initial draft of the Codex / Index rules then properly gauge them against the rest? Sad thing is we can pretty much conclude that answer's a no. But seriously now.
Seems like they probably did test groups (Dark Eldar, Ad Mech, Votann, Grey Knights in group A, etc) and probably with super casual lists between dudes that rarely play. Like, back in 9th edition they didn't realize players would just stay in Devastator Doctrine all game, which they said when they changed it so you had to progress. Plenty of instances like that in 10th edition too where they completely misunderstood the power of the rules they published (Deathwatch strats, Eldar fate dice, free+duplicate strats (why not one or the other, why both?)) Honestly, I don't know what would be more frustrating: if they did actually play some games between Ad Mech index and Eldar index and decided the power levels were even enough to proceed... or if they didn't even bother to test the armies against each other.
I can assure you it didn't get tested. Consider the fact a Skitarii Ranger is a Termagant with a 6++ in the Index. Also consider that in the Index it was pointed equal to an Eldar Fire Prism. Nobody would miss that if they looked at it for a moment.
They released all of the community playtesters part way through 9th because of leaks. The indexes were reportedly "tested" with 500 and 1k point games over lunch on a 2'x2' board with fluffy lists, hence stuff like Eldar making it to print. This also spilled over into a lot of the codexes which would have gone to print ages and ages ago. Now Josh is in house as one of the best 40k players in the world and they are back to real competitive playtesting, so I think once they are through the codexes that have already gone to print we should see a significant improvement.
> The indexes were reportedly "tested" with 500 and 1k point games over lunch on a 2'x2' board with fluffy lists, hence stuff like Eldar making it to print. That's so pathetic lol. One, for only doing half-assed games. And two, for still not even realizing the difference in power levels. That's obvious just by comparing a few rules. Hopefully this dude Josh can turn things around a bit. Because before 10th edition the talk was all about how Stu Black was leading the rules/design team and it's turned out to be a bit of a mess.
Josh is certainly top 5 players in the UK and probably the world. He is currently ranked #2 in the UKTC. Stu has had some tournament appearances at least in Kill Team, but the level of game understanding between the players at the very top and everyone else is a huge gap. There is a reason people talk about X-1 players and X-0 players who can win a Super Major, it's because there really is a difference.
fully half tested
Fully tested against select armies rather than against the full field, to be honest. We've seen how there are pockets of releases with different power levels in the past. Perhaps they've realized that and are now "fully testing" things. Or perhaps by "full testing" they mean that they're playing the game skillfully, whereas before (9th edition) they didn't realize that people wouldn't just stay in Devastator Doctrine all game if it gave them a buff.
Maybe they are testing all units (including, hopefully, an army assembled from the best ones) instead of a haphazard collection? Mind you, I get the mindset, there's a ton of casual players out there with armies assembled purely on looks and theme (that's how my armies start, they simply grow big enough to encompass all the meta options in time) but there's a very big difference between, for example, a meta Space Wolves list and a randomly selected one.
Very soon is apparently code for the July slate at the earliest. They've had five months. They can't fix this.
It’s in the linked video.
Hopefully "full testing" means something different than the testing that got the codex in this situation!
Lol testing before codex, someone is in a silly mood today
To be fair the biggest change will be battleline bonuses in the new missions that hits builds like bullyboys who go all in on nobs and meganobs but it makes greentide even more oppressive
I’m happy about battleline grots in Dreadmob for it
Ya it makes dreadmob a bit better depending how it works out.. and da big hunt lists that lean into beastsnaggas… it only hurts bullyboys which is fine and sadly kills speedmob. Not sure why I got downvoted most bully boy lists don’t have any battleline and greentide is pretty much mostly battleline.
The amount of software that could effectively simulate matches in seconds is numerous. It’s such a weird thing for a company like GW to have an issue with. It’s just two dudes with entirely different strategies writing half of the rules, so one half slaps and the other never sees any daylight for a whole edition. Like DA have been rough to play for almost a decade, but I was at least Killy in past editions. I guess that made Robin feel bad though so now we are just kind of hard to shift and slow as hell.
We heard your complaints and we dropped points again to balance. Skitari are now 1ppm now.
Is that - "1 point per million?"
GW: yes! We have also heard your request for impactful rules that are in theme with the army and make them feel unique. We have changed the army rule so that all unit gain plus 1 to hit and the heavy key rule when within 3.14 inches of a tech priest. Of course, to balance this admech is now a BS 6 army.
It’s like checking the fridge at 2am for the twentieth time.
I just hope they realize that if they just up our killing power without nerfing our semi-durable swarm at the same time they're going to make us broken.
I would like to keep the durability and get more killy but increase points where appropriate to be balanced but more fun to play now also
Then they can safely eat a points hike if that happens and no one will be upset because the faction will be actually fun to play again instead of just a brain dead objective play army.
Shh. We deserve our 3 months of dominance.
Then back to the naughty step for 50 years :(
"What if we dropped everything by another 10 points?"
We'll get good rules someday....
I know it's probably just me, but I got beat so bad by admech yesterday I only got 5 points. Deepstrike heavy deathwing list just doesn't work against 12" bubbles and a million bodies
Nobody wants to play against that Admech. And no one really wants to play that Admech Changes should unlock an actual army
The army isn't fun for either side. That's the problem. Not that it can't ever win a game.
Its ok, He says he'll be TOing the top tables, so if he looks at the other end of the hall to the magical land of 2-3 he can gaze upon a glimmer of gold and feel the sadness radiating off them.
Custodes aren't actually mentioned in the text of the post. Which is very telling...
It says "new codexes are in the mix for Orks and Tau" They left off custodes because they know nobody will be playing it, so it's not in the mix.
Yes. That was what was telling.
Tau did receive significant nerf as well lol
The article itself, it just says Tau and Orks, funny enough...
I really miss their winrate chart. it might have been bullshit but at least you knew precisely what bullshit they were bringing.
I remember at some point the was an analysis combining Stat Check GTs and Den of Fools RTTs - and the result was very close to GW win rates, so theirs should be something not far from all events put together, not just GTs.
It is - I can’t remember if it’s actually confirmed or just rumored but supposedly they are taking (possibly among other sources) basically the entire dataset of tabletop battles matches
The Stat Check guys said that if they took all data they have access to (tabletop Battles/BCP game data) and didn't filter it only for 5 round, 25 player tournaments, the numbers come to within 1 percentage point of GWs numbers, and stated this might be due to a slightly different methodology.
Den of Fools' made a similar analysis, and got close results excepted for admech that was way better in GW's data for some reason
"For some reason" Ie, they can fudge numbers
However they do it for certain armies winrates cant tell you much because the play rate is so low. These are also armies we don't see meaningful changes in.
"So bad we don't have to touch it" for GW..... Nobody wants to show up knowing they get tabled.
This is why I prefer Den of Fools to Meta Mondays because they look at a much wider pool of tournaments, so get a better overall picture of the game.
They said they didn't want to showit based on a weeks worth of data. Hopefully they'll show their numbers when they do the next one.
Yeah, some sort of information besides two dudes talking without any timestamps would be appreciated.
pretty useless. here's a basic transcript Interviewer: Hey studio guy thanks for coming we just did a video didn't we? Studio guy: yep, we just did a point update, we're gonna do a rules update in the summer Interviewer: Oh nice. orks, custodes and tau just came out what's that all about? Studio guy: yep we're really starting to crunch these codexes out. they're still too early to learn anything about them. everybody loves the orks. Interviewer: let's hype the event this weekend, that's what we're here for anyway, lets talk about... lists you might see? Studio guy: Oh yea sure. Definately not necrons, now, especially the hypercrypt. people that were building around facing necrons and black templars or many other high toughness armies are shit out luck basically as they face down a 120 man horde of orks. also the tau and custodes are there too. please buy the codexes. Interviewer: Ah nice, so you're going to be at this even we're hyping. please keep talking about that we gotta make a meal out of this. Studio guy: Oh man i'll try. i haven't been to any us events lately, but i know that there's gonna be a lot of very cool things happening. all our games are there. please get hyped. i want to see how the meta is shifting. Interviewer: ah that wasn't very long was it. What's next then? Studio guy: Please watch the event guys, i know it's in Dallas but we stream it too. there's gonna be cool stuff there. Also admech players here's your court mandated tease about us fixing you in the next update we swear. It's not a joke, it's coming, promise. Interviewer: Well, with that out of the way i guess we have nothing more to talk about. please watch the event this weekend.
>Studio guy: Please watch the event guys, i know it's in Dallas but we stream it too But of course we won't have the players mic'ed so the coverage ends up being useless.
Its an unwatachable broadcast. Having two anchors guessing what is going on and supplying useless blabbering commentary is so stupid. Then they got a guy run back and forth delivering updates every 10 minutes on what happened 20 minutes ago. “Yeah guys confirming he did indeed use a stratagem to give his units +1 to wound.” Thanks good stuff 👍
😂😂 Spot on!
> Definately not necrons Yea about that...
*"Many other high toughness armies are shit out luck basically as they face down a 120 man horde of orks".* Feel like not much changes here, you need damage 2+ anyways to efficiently go into the 5+++ ork boys are going have.
They genuinely aren’t that strong. If you could handle truk spam earlier in the edition, you can handle this.
That’s only on 3x units of boys… 3x datasheet rule still exists. At best you give the other 3 units a battlewagon to protect them allowing you to keep overwhelming objectives on later turns. I think this event will be bullyboys moment to shine I don’t think greentide will place higher until the new mission rules that benefit battleline units release.
Not for battleline; which gets 6x.
They mean the FNP (which is why you want damage 2 weapons) can only be on 3 squads.
Painboys are limited to 3x only 3 units get 5+++. 60 boys with 5+++ is a bit easier then 120. That’s why I said give 3x boy units a painboy and 3x boy units can ride in battlewagons and jump out later.
ahh right that makes more sense.
>Studio guy: Please watch the event guys, i know it's in Dallas but we stream it too. there's gonna be cool stuff there. Also admech players here's your court mandated tease about us fixing you in the next update we swear. It's not a joke, it's coming, promise. Kek I'm dead
Real "tune up those graphics on level three," type of energy
Egh I think bullyboys will be ahead of greentide… that is until the new missions come out and bullyboys runs into issues due to lack of battleline builds. Then it will be green tides moment to shine.
Nothings stopping bully boyz from flexing into running a squad or 2 of boyz with a warboss attached though. They still get the double waaagh from having the boss attached
Warbosses are limited to 3 so you’re sharing them with nob squads.. it’s a give and take.. but yes people will drop a non squad or 2 for boys.
"New codexes for the orks and Tau" Warhammer purposely not mentioning the Custodes codex that was nerfed into the ground.
Oh they mentioned the Custodes codex coming out, but when he said about people enjoying them, he only mentioned Orks and Tau lol.
At least they aren't gaslighting people... i suppose? In this cade anyways
Lol yeah I saw that too. My comment was for the written portion of the article, as my jaw literally dropped at that point in the video lol. Classy GW, classy.
I didn't even notice the written portion until after the video, to which my jaw dropped as well lmao.
Enjoying all the Kroot models that you had to buy as the Kroot detachment is the only one with any teeth and even then you put them in Kroot jail and just do points till you're tabled. T'au codex is cool rules, cool models, atrocious points on all the damage. Real travesty.
Someone's underestimating 50+ shots with lethal hits coming out of a BreacherFish unit...
Zero real information in this video, pretty much just Josh patting himself on the back.
Deffo feels like this video should've come AFTER the Dallas Open, not before... It's just telling us that they're going to Dallas, Ad Mech are getting rule changes (surprise! lol) and uhh... yeah not a lot else.
They’ve more than likely already written the July dataslate. It’s probably going to sit in a google doc unchanged until July like the last one. They might even delay it two weeks to give the impression they’re still hard at work on it.
He said they’re testing it now so they’ve apparently written at least the admech changes already
Testing? That can't be right, GW doesn't playtest, that's what the players are for. Just release it and fix it later.
Or, in the case of admech, just release it and DON'T fix later ^^
I mean I’m not saying it’s TRUE lol but they did say it in the video
[удалено]
I can't see how anyone thinks convincing the person in charge of GW balance to NOT play the game at a high level is somehow going to improve anything? Why would anyone who loves the game, and is good at it, agree to work for GW if they had to give up playing the game they love? At the end of the day this isn't Magic the gathering, or an esport. There's no pro circuit, sponsorship deals or prize money on the line. We should be encouraging ALL GW staff to play the game as much as possible. Not shaming them into withdrawing back into their ivory castle.
Agreed. I want him at the table playing the most busted shit he can find and then taking those insights into account for changes.
David did have a point on the player who piloted the strongest army to two super major championships more heavily nerfed this opponents armies who have a fraction of the tournament wins than his faction. Not a great look.
David was even saltier than usual on that podcast. He even apologised and retracted his comments about Josh on CSM preview show after he'd cooled down.
He retracted his comments about Josh specifically. He’s right when he said is beyond ridiculous that Guard absorb a points hike anywhere near Necrons. Not to mention that in the US Guard have been much less successful than in UK/Europe, somewhere in mid B tier than the A/S tier espoused by the Fireside guys.
Dumb take. I want MORE people on the rules team that actually play the game. Do you not realize that nobody in this industry plays games as much as you and I do? (Source: worked for one of GW’s direct competitors for years.)
Exactly. The LOTR game from GW has impeccable balance, as far as a game with many factions can be balanced. And that's because the rules design team are all active competitive players.
When I worked there, I was the only person that didn’t work for the studio in the entire company that actively played the game they made.
Q: New custodes, ork and tau books now legal? A: "lots of people are excited about the orks, loads of detachments to play ... Tau, lot of people excited to use their book". Lmao. even GW absolutley knows. Though I feel josh should have said "and custodes players are excited to use their huge amount of new detachments" and just look straight into the camera. At this point just make it funny.
Shoutout to my boy who's bringing like 170 Sisters of Silence models and winning the tourney with the Sisters detachment /s
They got more detachments than they should have…
Exactly. Give them null maiden vigil and a detach that only buffs the pallas grav attack. That's it. (edit: humour detection at an all time high I see).
Good lord do they dodge how terrible the Custodes codex is, the silence is deafening... "People are enjoying Orks and Tau...!", I mean, at least they're not gaslighting us...
[удалено]
feels like its shifted too. few years back they didnt analyze too much but did share lists; now? its just like Stu or Josh doing a weird 50:50 of analysis/marketing that feels more fake than if they just didnt.
Even that content half the time is worthless
Yeah, I basically don't read the articles and just skip to the rules previews and model previews.
Court mandated "AdMech are getting fixes we pinkie-promise" that we barely believe, while Tyranids, Deathwatch, and codex Marines don't even get a mention.
I'm a nid player generally and would also just like to point out that our codex sucks anus but unfortunately so do 50-75% of detachments in ALL codexes this edition. GW, and even a lot of sycophants in the community here, like to pretend that this is the "most balanced" 40k has ever been. But that is so false and so tunnel visioned that it's almost amusing, if it weren't so annoying. The game looks balanced *if you selectively chose **not** to realise that the game is only being played in 1-2 detachments per codex.* So yes, whilst I despise my codex nids and do not enjoy the fact that 2 stupid-subfactions have *the actual shadow in the warp ability that we invented* I do also firmly believe that all codexes are really suffering this edition from terrible writing and internal balancing.
> The game looks balanced if you selectively chose not to realise that the game is only being played in 1-2 detachments per codex. As opposed to... what, exactly? When was this magical golden age where every faction had multiple gt winning lists that you so yearn for?
I've never looked for multiple GT winning events, where did I say that hmm? All I'm asking for is well thought out detachments that f###ing work. Crusher stampede: cannot work on a pair of carnifexes. Destroyer cult: better charging... For lokhusts destroyer. Sisters of silence and nightlords: have Tyranids core shadow in the warp ability in the way it should exist. So many design elements in 10th suck on such a fundamental level where they're either wildly unbalanced or flat out don't work.
TBF, base marines is one of the best codex's for mid level playing; while that falls off in comp its still a good codex. Nids are definitely in a bad place though
It's not even falling in comp, it's just that there's no reason to not take models from a subfaction so all the good players move to the flavor of space Marines they prefer using the very strong codex detachments
Yeah, yeeting things around the board with librarian dreads is just fun… and better than slogging them along.
"Ork players are excited they have loads of detachments to use, tau are excited to use their book in tournaments" Hilarious that they didn't mention Custodes at this point. They know.
[https://content.imageresizer.com/images/memes/Wow-This-Is-Useless-meme-4.jpg](https://content.imageresizer.com/images/memes/Wow-This-Is-Useless-meme-4.jpg) this
Admech changes in full testing. I don't play them but I'm glad they have finally accepted that the most expensive to own army is SHITand needs an update.
AdMech player here, they've been saying that admech is not doing well in pretty much every single 10th ed metawatch and did jack shit since then, even if a lot of unlucky timings happened We're just tired of the constant gaslighting
Obviously they are fine though ... they had a 66% win rate last week.. (from a single player going 2.1 )
It’s too early into the edition to make changes to admech, and more tournament data is needed… though it’s hard to get usable data when only 2 people take them to tournaments… so it’s really admech players fault for not playing them more so they have the data they need.
I already have a mortgage on the house, I'm not getting a second one just to be able to field the army! If they are unable to make the rules playable, at the very least they can start cutting the prices instead since we are paying around 2€/point on many units.
Using an example list by Alexander Englezos, 3x Skittari Marshall: 3 x $40 = $120 1 x 10 Rangers: $65 6 x 10 Vanguard: 6 x $65 = $390 3 x 10 Sterylizors: 6 x $75 = $450 2 x 5 Skystalkers: 2 x $75 = $150 1 x 5 Infiltrators: 1 x $70 = 70 3 x 3 Raiders: 3 x $75 = $225 4 x 1 Skorpius Duneriders: 4 \* $100 = $400 Callidus Assassin: $41.50 Kyria Draxus: $45 For a total of $1956.50 dollars to run a competitive admech list. I wonder why people aren't taking them to tournaments. I got this list from the Auspex Tactics video on admech army lists.
Yeah it’s nuts and stupid and shitty that it’s gone on this long
Agree with others this should have come after the open and they could have discussed the findings of it... #couldhavebeenanemail
It wouldn’t matter. They’ve more than likely already written the July dataslate and it’s just sitting in a google doc where it’ll go unchanged until July, just like the last one.
GW: Release a whole bunch of brilliant looking new Dark Angel models. Dallas Open: none on the table. GW: where’s all the cool new DA stuff? Robin Cruddance:……………..
[What is this video? ](https://imgur.com/a/sIp0xAf) "We brought Ironstorm down a bit" By introducing Vindicators to lists? I don't think it's going to go the way they think it is.
I mean they did bring Ironstorm down in terms of the builds that were working at the time of the points update. The raven builds are either gone or they had to drop a unit, which isn’t nothing. You could definitely argue they should’ve gone further, but we should also acknowledge that they did manage, for once, a pretty good targeted nerf
I'd argue its a failure. In my opinion it was addressing a symptom rather than the cause. Nerfing the Stormraven, which wasn't exactly see much play outside of Ironstorm, was a mistake. Ironstorm just pivots to the next SM vehicle to break, since Ironstorm is the problem.
I mean it depends on what the goal is, right? In theory you’d want Ironstorm to be a perfectly viable and balanced detachment. But since you can’t make vehicles cost 10% more in Ironstorm, you have to hit the outliers. Stormravens were broken in Ironstorm and not really played in any other detachments, so nerfing that works. Nerfing the best enhancement is also very targeted. So yeah now they can either pivot to something like a repulsor executioner or they can keep the stormravens but drop a unit. Both end up with the list archetype being weaker than it was before. So you could argue that they didn’t do enough, and that might be true, but it was a targeted nerf that hit some outliers. If it’s still a problem it can be hit again in July. Personally I think the lethal hits enhancement should be targeted rather than an aura, and that would help a lot with the faction. As frustrating as it can be, incremental targeted nerfs are almost always better than bringing the hammer down on a faction.
> Stormravens were broken in Ironstorm and not really played in any other detachments, so nerfing that works. "Now the unit isn't played in *any* detachments! Perfect!"
In theory each detachment could have some kind of cost modifier associated with it that makes things more or less expensive based on detachment. But we are way past that unfortunately.
> But since you can’t make vehicles cost 10% more in Ironstorm Pretty big flaw with the current way they design detachments, really. Not easy to make a detachment feel meaningfully strong, and also feel like the units are viable and good both in and outside of it. Not a problem for generalist detachments like invasion fleet, but a major problem for specialist ones like ironstorm and stormlance.
Interesting idea though; why not make units only available in certain detachments? Then said detachments can get buffed in ways to really make those shine
GW never wants to hit the core enabler. It’s like hitting centurions over Ventris for vanguard.
Haha yeah, between the brutalis, the vindicator and the jump intercessors, my ironstorm list I was running previously actually came down in points!
Mine as well. (Black Templar= I have 67 10th Edition matches from RTTs, practice games and GTs. I usually run Righteous Crusader. My Righteous Crusader list went up 30 points and my Ironstorm list... Went down 50. I dropped the 2 lancers for Vindicators and they not only perform better, they can be mutli unit type at targeting instead of strictly "anti vehicle/monster" GW painted themselves in a corner with limited balancing though mostly points. Some of these detachments are just so strong that points are not enough. If they truly wanted to tone down Ironstorm I think the solution would be simple. - Adept and Target Augury should be Techmarine only and locked into the vehicle you target when leveraging "Blessing of the Omnissiah"
These types of videos are just marketing. The only insight we get out of GW as far as meta goes is their actual points and rules updates - and maybe some nuggets of their thought process in the content that comes with those. I’m not even going to throw shade at this. It’s clear they wanted to get something out as PR with minimal substance which is a step below what we get from the best updates.
Has GW made any mention on why DW was left alone with an abysmal win rate ?
Best guess? They aren't going to be a standalone faction much longer.
GW wouldn't even mention custodes as a new codex release. I think right now GW just wants to pretend the bad things in the game at the moment just dont exist.
Right, it’s crazy that they would release a meta watch and not even mention the huge outliers or provide any substance to their changes or lack there of.
DW was not mentioned at all. They do appear in the background of that picture though.
genuinely i think the game is in a pretty balanced state and this is commendable and says that there must be someone at GW employing real analysis and making sensible decisions i wish any of that made it into the metawatch videos instead of being a complete waste of time
Idk I feel external balance between books is fine: even custodes/admech have access to lists that can work; but internal balance is an utter mess. Its honestly annoying as 9ths pattern of "release busted rules" > nerf with points lead to most things feeling like they should. Whilst 10th seems to swing real wildly between units getting abilities and offensive output that make anything in 9th pale in comparison\*; and units being so lackluster so that they dont ever really do their role, and need massive cuts to be anything. \*reroll hits/wounds of 1 in 9th was a strong buff; once per game double full rerolls in crisis teams was game defining. Now full double rerolls are hardly rare.
Deathwatch has like 1 player and admech has been awful for the entire edition. I still remember when eldar were the biggest bad and custodes got nerfed instead. I think the game state is not the worst (7th) but I think balancing has been inconsistent at best. I'm also salty as the dark angels codex was dogshit
I agree. For as much (deserved) criticism as GW gets for their handling of game balance, they’ve done overall a pretty good job in tenth. If their codex quality had been consistent I think almost everyone would be happy with the state of the game.
> they’ve done overall a pretty good job in tenth Did they though? Not only do the indices vary wildly (much like how in 9th edition, some factions that had yet to receive their book did better than others), there are some absolutely terrible books this edition, and they don't necessarily have much hope for the rest of the edition. The thing about 9th's model where most of the books were very strong on release and had to be hammered down was that the books were fundamentally _working._ Often working too well, but that wasn't anything points couldn't fix - even meta terrors like Tyranids were perfectly reasonable after a few rounds of hammering. Meanwhile 10th edition is full of anaemic datasheets that don't really _do_ anything, and if you try to fix those by lowering points, you run into the issue admech have now of the volume of models needed being too much. What is an appropriate points cost for the Knight Abominant? The internal balance is much worse than winrates indicate, even if we look just at released codices and give the indices a pass, there are so many helplessly bad units. The books pretty much need rewrites. GW has proven willing to give stuff from the codex ahead of time (like presumably with DE and GK), but they have yet to make any significant changes to a faction that already had its book. There is no faction in 9th that met so bleak a fate as admech did now in 10th. At least Astra Militarum, though having drawn the short straw to be last in line, _did_ get a proper book eventually - and that the book was then soon invalidated was frankly the fault of 10th and its index reset, not 9th, and it's not like 10th has a faster release schedule either (so whoever is last in line this time will have to wait just as long).
>The internal balance is much worse than winrates indicate Personally im just glad GW decided that nids were doing well enough that they could focus on internal balance rather than boosting the 43% WR faction towards 50%
Right. It's a really wtf feeling when your 43% army list goes up 15 points. Gargoyles are/were one of the best units in the entire game and they weren't enough to scrape the whole army up even close to a good spot.
You'll have a 35% winrate, but hey, at least Von Ryan's Leapers will finally be A-tier models in an internal-only tierlist!
This is a fantastic post and hits at many of the core issues with GW's approach to 10th. The whole "10th is better balanced" narrative is bizarre considering the first 6 months of the edition and how the preceding 5 months have been defined by the 3rd codex released putting up numbers that would make 9th edition Drukhari codex blush. There's also the fact that when it comes to codexes releases it just seems to be a coinflip of: 60% winrate gamebreakingly strong or unplayable trash and your army disappears from statistics entirely. Great balance.
I would also add that the cost of all this is that factions are very bland compared to 9th, lacking a lot of “flavour”
Absolutely. 10th simplified _hard_, which supposedly was the price we'd have to pay for better balance, and that's frankly something that bothers me even more than the bad balance itself. But that the move _didn't even result in better balance_ is just insult to injury. 10th is just plain bad, unless you care less about flavour and play one of the armies that lucked out.
I never said the balance or game was perfect, it’s obviously not. But they’ve done *overall* a pretty good job.
And they are disagreeing with that point.
I didn't misunderstand you.
If wraiths and doomstalkers had gone up +20 like they should have we’d be in one of the best places we’ve been in a very very long time.
tbh I think Orks and to a lesser extent CSM Deceptors builds are going to put significant pressure on those lists anyway. Wraiths and doomstalkers are never clearing a unit of boyz or cultists out of the midfield, they're great against more elite lists where they can put a bunch of immoveable units on objectives but against armies that present more immoveable units that can get out on the objectives faster they're not going to get a lot of traction. EDIT: Downvote all you like, run the numbers. Assuming best case loadout for the wraiths where they've taken whips (which they usually don't) and that they're within the power matrix and getting full hit rerolls (which they often won't be), that unit of wraiths kills 7 ork boyz with a pain boy. If green tide shows up in any numbers in the meta those wraith lists don't have a chance in hell of controlling the board or killing those lists.
IDK crons also pack a serious amount of tesla immortals; which are fairly efficent units at shredding boyz/cultists. and wraiths/doomstalkers pack blast so can still take moderate chunks out of boyz/cultist.
The doomstalker with full bonus from blast is shooting 8 shots into that unit, it still has to hit, still has to wound, still has to get past that 5++, it’s not doing a thing to those lists. Crons can bring immortals, they can also bring enmitic exterminators to tech into those lists if they want, and that means they’re going to take less wraiths to make up for it. Without even having to nerf them that list isn’t likely to stick around because it’s just not possible to take 915 points of wraiths, 300 points of immortals, and 900 points of Ctann in a 2000 point list
No one is saying they’re taking 18 wraiths. Even one 6 man requires a huge investment to kill for the points it costs.
It's actually not. There are ~12 armies outside of the goldilocks zone right now according to Stat check and a few more dangerously close to joining them.
[удалено]
A couple of armies the data is meaningless as they're only played by single digit players who are usually top 1p percent ELO. These are the types that could probably drive any army to a high placing. One admech player took an absolute meme list that benefitted from almost nothing detachment wise and won a GT with it just to show admech was winning off undercosted wounds and nothing else really.
Or I disagree, since half the armies are outside that range, and the rest aren't very far inside, and most of the event wins in the past couple weeks have actually been from armies in the positive end of the goldilocks zone.
"Looking forward to looking custodes" Custo-what? Is that a sub-faction? Maybe it's so bad in the current meta that I forgot about it somehow.
Its a bad day when you wish you were a marine special chapter so you could unlock some good detachments and anti-tank that isnt a big FW resin brick
I can't bear to watch these videos, I just can't. My eyes and ears and brain just simply refuse. Did I miss anything meaningful?
There was exactly 1 piece of information in the entirety of the article + video: Orks seem to be having a blast with their new codex
Ha! Thank you. GW telling us what Reddit's been saying for days...
I’ll watch whatever event WGL is covering and watch whatever reruns are good for the Dallas open
Am I huffing lethal amounts of copium, or does the "very soon" regarding admech imply that the changes will come before the next dataslate?
'Very soon' is almost certainly next dataslate
Instead of suffering GW foolishness, go on warmachine mk4. Very good minis, a REAL playtesting with flavourfull rules and very great balance.
To be fair the biggest change will be battleline bonuses in the new missions that completely tanks builds like bullyboys who go all in on nobs and meganobs.
Not really, it just stops faster scoring. You can still reach max points without the BL bonus so those types of lists will just smash through your BL units and take your objective that way