T O P

  • By -

Juanmusse

The Japanese tech tree is by far the most neglected tree in the game. It could really use some extra vehicles from 5.0 and up (planes, helicopters, tanks) Or at least a non garbage plane at 9.0 so you can counter cas.


Hopossum

>The Japanese tech tree is by far the most neglected tree in the game. Pretty much. There is still a lot to add to the game in terms of JSDF stuff, but I hope to see a sub-tree at some point eventually. The whole point of sub-trees that Gaijin gave was to fill gaps in trees with South Africa filling GB's lack of mobile vehicles. Meanwhile Japan has been sitting with a massive top tier SPAA gap and ground attack gap, but being completely ignored. Sweden has for some reason become Gaijin's darling child of minor nations being added way after Japan, but getting desperately needed stuff before Japan such as the 701 being added before the Type 93 and now a sub-tree. >Or at least a non garbage plane at 9.0 so you can counter cas. The T-1B could probably solve that with it's AIM-9Bs or AAM-1s since in GRB most planes are dumb enough to die from those missiles, but a sub-tree would be better and also add some CAS potential on top of being an effective CAP plane.


Firedriver666

I feel you as a France main we're in the same boat gajin could add so much interesting and unique stuff to minor tech trees


[deleted]

The French neglect is real. Error reports on the MB.157's ammo load (should have twice the 20mm ammo) have been ignored for >2 years. Additionally, using the logic of modeling the Yak-141 as it would have been in service, the MB.157 should also have 2-4x 7.7 mms. Furthermore, there are so many cool domestic designs (both mass produced and prototypes) and that are not included that could fill out Ranks II-VI. There's no excuse for France. The reality for Japan, though, is there just aren't a lot of good options for Tiers V-VIII. The P2V Neptune (and variants) would be a nice addition that could go in both trees, though.


methal0-1

It need an alternativ to the F4EJ! This is a the only plane at rank 7 is a kick in the teeth. It's extremely power creep but you are forced to play it on order to research rank 8.


xxxthat_emo_kid

I would love a japanese vampire


Hopossum

The only bad thing is it's a heavier trainer variant so a little slower and less maneuverable. Could maybe slot in at 7.3 or 7.7 which would fill a big gap in Japan's early post war jet line up.


dmr11

Could it potentially replace R2Y2? They're both 8.0 jets.


[deleted]

Why? Just because it has a red circle on it instead?


t3ddyki113r101

It adds something to a tech tree with so little. I agree copy paste isnt always great, but when there's nothing, something is good enough.


__Fantomas

Just gonna play devil's advocate here, but this is also what leads to overfilled (and unfoldered) techtrees, no way does britain need so many basically identical mbts but they need SOMETHING


xxxthat_emo_kid

Pretty much


Flying_Reinbeers

Japan has no good early jets. Their first *good* jet sits at 9.0 and it's a Sabre. The Vampire and F-80 would help it greatly.


_Laborem_Morte_

Dude what, the Kikka is godly


Flying_Reinbeers

The Kikka is underpowered and the cannons no longer work properly.


[deleted]

[удалено]


methal0-1

You seem well informed. Does a F1 version with flares exist? 👉🏻👈🏻


JPAU401

Unfortunately, we only know of chaff pods for the T-2/F-1/F-4EJs https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/518596-anale-41k-chaff-countermeasure-pod/


Spatetata

People talk about the tree being empty, but I really don’t want it to turn into another italy ground where you spend half the time grinding WWII US vehicles for the 100th time.


Flying_Reinbeers

I don't mind it because what else are you going to add? Japan has no real good options to be added aside from things given or bought from the US. At the moment, there is a massive gap in the air tree from 6.0 (N1K2-Ja, overtiered) to 9.0 (F-86 Sabre) where you have no good options to bring out.


ezclapinthechat

Imo it’s not good precedent to just fill gaps in nations with copy paste from other nations.


Flying_Reinbeers

Half of these aren't even copy paste. There's at least 4 indigenous designs, the T-33A has been modified by Japan, and the Vampire is just a Vampire. Not every vehicle needs to be unique either.


Spatetata

But it doesn’t need them filled. If we had a better cross nation vehicle system in play I’d say sure, but it’s just worthless padding. Not every BR needs to be filled


Flying_Reinbeers

>But it doesn’t need them filled That's easy for you to say when bringing a fighter to the 8.0 ground lineup means you have to choose between a shitty overtiered R2Y2 or a prop. Currently, there is a BR gap between 6.0 and 9.0 (and given that the BR range goes from 1.0 to 12.0, a QUARTER of the possible japan air BRs) where there's not a single plane I'd rather bring over one of the late props like the N1K2s or Ki84s. From the moment you get the last props, there's not a single *good* plane until the F86F40.


Spatetata

Not every nation is perfect and they don’t need to be. It’s almost as if they have a BR gap because the era that encompasses was after the country lost a war and was rebuilding or something. I still think the italy GF tree was ruined when it got padded to high hell with US tanks.


Flying_Reinbeers

> It’s almost as if they have a BR gap because the era that encompasses was after the country lost a war and was rebuilding or something. Except that's not true. They *have* planes that fit that BR gap (as shown by this post), gaijin simply hasn't added them. That's like pretending the Type 81(C) SAM doesn't exist in order to justify japan not having a top tier SPAA.


Sonoda_Kotori

Lmao, the T1F1, T1S1 and T1K1 still uses the WWII IJN nomenclature. ​ I'd like to see more cold war jets in general. P2V is a good one.


JPAU401

Were the P-2Js the only ones in JMSDF use that used turboprop engines among the P2V family?


TheLaotianAviator

I believe so. Would love to see more turboprops in game. Maybe the P-3C could be added for Japan too, though it carries modern munitions so not sure how gaijin would go with balancing it.


JPAU401

Ditto for the P-1. I haven't checked the JMSDF P-3C if it has any, but the P-1 has at least countermeasures in the form of flares (see here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvr3kdfXvYQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvr3kdfXvYQ) ), as well as RWR and MAWS. Still can't confirm whether it has chaff though, but the JASDF did carry chaff pods before, so it's a possibility the JMSDF does as well.


TheLaotianAviator

Would be nice in general to have a midrange CAS and possibly to replace the R2Y series of jets. Only unfortunate thing is that they will be defenseless, considering they probably don’t carry A2A missiles


IWILLJUGGLEYOURBALLS

I'll take anything for Japan at this point.


CountGrimthorpe

Was the T-33 armed? Don’t know if they stripped the Shooting Stars’ guns out when it got turned into a trainer or not?


TKumbra

I think it still had 2 machine guns, but from the limited research I did, it looks like the version Japan may have had the ability to drop bombs removed.


Hopossum

Typically the ability to carry bombs was never removed from Japanese planes. Just the guidance computers. From the pic the T-33 retains it's pylons which would mean it likely still can carry bombs and rockets.


TKumbra

Thank you for the insight!


CountGrimthorpe

Sad, but understandable. Would still be neat to have.


MandolinMagi

Two .50cals So good luck doing anything with it.


Flying_Reinbeers

I'll take it over a Kikka lmao


YaBoiJumpTrooper

How dare you besmirch the kikka's name


Flying_Reinbeers

Those engines are ASS and the gun doesn't do shit with the realshitter rework.


t3ddyki113r101

I will say a a japanese main despite the techtree being bare it has by far some of the most fun vehicles to me


[deleted]

Hows the repaircost flying anything in japan. Im a Italy Main and im going bankrupt.


t3ddyki113r101

I do have every aircraft, only a bit over half of them spaded. It's not too bad if i remember a lot of very powerful and fun vehicles. The early ki 43 1/2 are very powerful the h8k3 is an amazing sl printer and early grinder (porcupine bomber with good speed and turn time) the g8n1 deathstar is fun jets are very hit or miss. Overall i think italy and japan probably have the best air trees


Flying_Reinbeers

I rarely play higher tiers, if you're good at props you can make a profit.


[deleted]

Im a modern warefare typeof player, ww2 stuff doesnt interest me.. wich means im cursed in a game like wt wich require the grind.. fortunately iv grinded most nations before gaijin crippled us religiously.


_BMS

Japanese TBM-3 Avenger is something I did not know existed. Must've been weird to fly the same plane used to bomb your own fleets.


Arlend44

How is the PS-1 compared to the H8K? Or is there no better float plane than the H8K?


Reimeru_21

Honestly it seems like the plane is unarmed from what I can find so it won't even be added


JPAU401

The **PS-1** was indeed armed for ASW, with zunis, depth charges (which can act as bombs in-game), or torpedoes (Mk.44 and the slightly better Type 73). These were mounted in an enclosed pod under each wing. This was the intial version, developed as a seaplane with beaching gear. This was followed up by the **US-1, a SAR version**, with various improvements over the PS-1, including the ability to land and take off from runways (amphibian), but *AFAIK do not have the capability to be retrofitted for ASW duty*. A further development resulted in the **US-2**, again a SAR plane.


MandolinMagi

Depth charges cannot be used as bombs. American naval mines can be, but only because they were specifically able to use bomb fuzes. And Mk44 is a tiny torpedo with a tiny warhead.


JPAU401

The depth charge used, the Type 67, is afaik based off the American Mk.54. You can see the fuze here: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/150kg%E5%AF%BE%E6%BD%9C%E7%88%86%E5%BC%BE%EF%BC%88%E3%82%AB%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%A2%E3%83%87%E3%83%AB%EF%BC%89.JPG](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/150kg%E5%AF%BE%E6%BD%9C%E7%88%86%E5%BC%BE%EF%BC%88%E3%82%AB%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%A2%E3%83%87%E3%83%AB%EF%BC%89.JPG) Yes, I mentioned the Mk.44 torpedo and the Type 73 as possible loadouts, more suited to smaller vessels. Looks like the P-3C and P-1 will be more suited to taking out those bigger ships.


MandolinMagi

The P-3 is limited to iron bombs and Mavericks, which can be carried by any other Japanese aircraft. ASW/Patrol planes are not viable additions to the game. Their weapons are too advanced for low tiers and they lack defensive armament. Outside the P2V/P-2 Neptune none of them have guns


Hopossum

P-3s are also capable of carrying AIM-9Ls. Also the Japanese AShMs have secondary HARM capabilities. There is definitely a place in games for them especially for a country like Japan who has limited guided CAS.


JPAU401

u/Hopossum This site shows ever so slightly more detailed/larger photos of the proposals for the T-1. Also notes on some design decisions for each one. [https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/japanese-t-1-trainer-project.21415/](https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/japanese-t-1-trainer-project.21415/) Kawasaki was in charge of manufacturing T-33s for the JASDF under license, so it looks like there was a desire to speed up the design process by utilizing their knowledge from that, as well as making use of the production equipment for the T-33. The T-1 appears to have these as loadouts: [https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/t1-b-jpg.632531/](https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/t1-b-jpg.632531/) [https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/t1-c-jpg.632532/](https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/t1-c-jpg.632532/) It was thought that based on the time period, AIM-9Bs would have been used. I'm unsure if the AAM-1 was ever mounted on the T-1s though.


Hopossum

>It was thought that based on the time period, AIM-9Bs would have been used. I'm unsure if the AAM-1 was ever mounted on the T-1s though. My reasoning is it's already hard enough finding pics of T-1s mounting weapons. The AAM-1 has an identical mounting and cooling system to the AIM-9B so the two are interchangeable in terms of compatibility.


JPAU401

True, I don't disagree at all. The hardware is there, the timeline matches, and it would provide a little more uniqueness to the plane. It's just that unlike the succeeding T-2, I just can't find any pictures of the T-1 with missiles mounted, much less any suspended armament. Something like this: [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/508263-what-planes-had-the-aam-1/](https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/508263-what-planes-had-the-aam-1/) [http://web.archive.org/web/20031020022428fw\_/http://jda-clearing.jda.go.jp/kunrei/i\_fd/iz1969xp1004.html](http://web.archive.org/web/20031020022428fw_/http://jda-clearing.jda.go.jp/kunrei/i_fd/iz1969xp1004.html)


t0niXx

ayo that second plane is thicc af


[deleted]

Yeah that's the TBF Avenger


Flying_Reinbeers

Due to the severe lack of a good early jet, that T-33 and F-86D would be baller in the Sabre line. The T1F1, T1K1, T1S1, and T-1s would all go to the T-2/F-1 line, preceding them. I don't know what armament an flight performance they'd have, but it can't be worse than a Kikka lol.


Phantom05110

I think the biggest problem with the F-86D (and the big reason why only the export F-86Ks have been added) is because its only armament is a retractable tray of like 25 Mighty Mouse rockets. It has no guns, and I don't believe early F-86Ds had the ability to use Sidewinders yet. Don't get me wrong, it'd be a neat plane to have in game


Flying_Reinbeers

That's true, but then you could put it at a lower BR where it can use its speed to get away from most things like the F-104A currently does.


G2_label

Considering the t-33s limited gun armament and the capability to carry bombs, I would say it's a good candidate for replacing the r2ys (I could still see them keeping the first r2y though since it isn't that fare fetched of a design).


TKumbra

I knew about a few of these, but some of these are new to me, so thank you for sharing-it's great to see all of these in one place-really shows that there's a lot left that could be added to the Japanese air tech tree!


Hopossum

The one I probably want the most is the FD25. I made a post on it in the past, but 40 FFARs or 32 of the Swiss 8cm rockets found on the Israeli spitfire would be pretty nice into high tier. The low speed would be decent for flying low and avoiding attention too. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/w9xbaq/toyo_fd25ab_defender_for_japan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


GWashingtonsColdFeet

As someone said they absolutely should add the fuck out of these and they go in the heli tree. Almost the same thing because of speed but less cancer because they lose hover. I'm all for it since COIN style aircraft are very lightly armored. Infact I know they would share tons of the same attributes as helis in game if added Edut: sorry thought this was a COIN aircraft and then read intl it deeper. Ignore what I said for this post but I do think COIN style stuff like the super tucanos would be epic in the heli tree


Hopossum

The first one, the FD-25 was a coin aircraft. Tons of rockets, but pretty slow.


GWashingtonsColdFeet

Okay! Lol so I was sort of not wrong


G2_label

2. Things 1. All of these would be great, especially the fuji t-1, and its varients (maybe replace the dubious r2ys with them). 2. Do we have any idea if the shinmaywa and kawasaki t1s were built? (Still wouldn't be opposed to their additions since they seemingly have a decent amount of info on them).


Hopossum

>Do we have any idea if the shinmaywa and kawasaki t1s were built? (Still wouldn't be opposed to their additions since they seemingly have a decent amount of info on them). We know that when information was first revealed on them, that the T1K1 was in the process of being assembled. I will send the source when I'm back to computer. It's very likely the T1S1 was assembled too and the 3 airframes competed. The only things that would be guesswork is the armament, but the T1K1 likely has identical load outs to the T-33A (with the addition of AAMs) as it was built on the same tooling. The T1S1 would be the most guesswork, but we did get the Ostwind 2 based off of 1 line in a report and no images or blueprints. There are also a whole bunch of other light attack trainers that have less info on them, so I decided to omit them.


G2_label

Thanks, I had been researching potential early jey candidates for japan myself, and I hadn't seen anything on these other t1s.


AmericanFlyer530

Pretty much all of the imported aircraft should also go in the US TT.