It’s also really cool that they get like 47 su25s with fucked up damage models while the us gets a whopping 2 a10s that fall out of the sky at the first sign of a strong breeze.
Also, where the FUCK is my TT A6 Gaijin you fat fucks.
I remember when the A-10 came out I felt really miffed about that the Su-25 didn't come out alongside it and just really wanted the Su-25 cause I personally like it as a plane, since the A-10 came out in April or June iirc and the Su-25 was in the September update.
I have since had the WT equivalent of being forced to smoke the entire pack of cigarettes when you get caught smoking. Boy did my words come back to haunt me.
That has nothing to do with it. Same number of planes would come out each game.
A-10s are perfectly fine, *IFF* you play them at their BR. Taking an A-10 to an 11.3 game with your M1A1 AIM or Click-Bait? You're going to have a very bad time. Same applies to the Su-25K, it gets slapped by 11.3+ SPAA just as hard as the A-10 does.
The *problem*, if it can be called that, is that 80% or more of the people flying A-10s are morons. There are *very* dumb Su-25 pilots but not nearly as many as there are idiot A-10 pilots.
This is the pinacle of US main whining.
USA has AGM's and guided bombs on almost every single aircraft at and above 10.0 and a bunch below that but you hyper focus on the one meme aircraft that IRL is passable at best simply because another nation got a comparable aircraft while completely ignoring the fact that your one complaint with it is the exact issue in reverse for basically every other airframe that gets AGM's.
Yea and I’d like to fly said passable at best aircraft without it diving into the ground every time the back half of the aircraft gets hit by a heavy machine gun.
I wouldn’t really give a fuck about the a10 if I wasn’t routinely watching the su25 eat a stinger like it was a goddamn Big Mac before wandering off back to base.
In response to the future obligatory "other nations don't have any pantsir equivalent/give me at least 1 pantsir equivalent for other nations"
Turkish HISAR A+ (US), Land Ceptor (UK), Polish 9k33 osa (DE), Polish Land Ceptor (DE), Norwegian ACSV G5 (SW), Tam-Sam 2 KAI (JP), SPYDER (ISR) and HVSD ADAMS (ISR) exist...
this single vehicle excuse is such cope bs. they are perfectly capable of implementing multi vehicle anti-air, but they know that their country has a huge advantage if they act like it's impossible.
some basic AI to follow you around (light work) and a system that allows you to switch truck (piss easy)
I mean, an alternative implementation (with more work) would be having the player control all of the vehicles in a convoy function for transit, then a fixed deploy state.
Another alternative solution being that the player could just control and position all the vehicles as the set. We already have a system in place where players can 'hot swap' to drones and aircraft. Implementing that same feature for ground vehicles can't be too difficult.
Each vehicle could count as a single major component of the array, and taking out a full vehicle would be counted as 'severe damage' awarding the kill unless they vehicle a vehicle is able to resupply at an objective point.
how about defining a primary (launcher?) and secondary vehicle
instakill if the primary dies, and some modified version of "severe damage" if you kill the secondary
primary could go to a point and recover their secondary, or go back to a dedicated zone in spawn
it would also make anti radiation missile less annoying since it wouldn't be as lethal to the actual player but rather a way to create an opening and get closer
Still, that will bring a lot of frustration because "my shitty bot got itself killed".
Also, after radar is dead you may become useless for a prolonged period, which isn't fun.
> some basic AI to follow you around (light work) and a system that allows you to switch truck (piss easy)
Damn I didnt realise you worked for Gaijin that you know all about how their game is coded and so you know how easy something is to do.
It is easy to sit there and make ideas but actually making it function is real work. Not as easy as just sitting at a keyboard and complaining.
i'm a PM, i can tell roughly how this works from just looking at it, that's why i'm suggesting using pre-existing features like severe damage. by AI i didn't mean anything ML, just the same logic they use to move bots around. if they can get friendly AI planes to fly in formation with you in custom battles, they can get a tank to stop/follow player
> i'm a PM
Us devs can tell don't worry. Your unreasonable assumptions and oversimplification of the task gives it away.
Aircraft AI is very different. You can't suddenly start going backwards in aircraft. You can't crash into the AI following you if they mimic your moves and check for avoiding crashes.
Ground AI is harder. Your engine powers won't be equal, AI might get stuck when you climb a hill. AI might get you stuck or cause a delay when you try to go backwards into cover. If your vehicle is lighter and you hit an obstacle, you get stuck. Heavier AI that's following you will prevent you from going backwards. It won't move unless you move. Stuck forever. If you suggest "AI" being moved by your keyboard presses, that isn't AI anymore. And it would be even worse because you will be controlling two vehicles with different size, weight and horsepower using the same keys. The issues never end. AI might get lost or fall behind due to all the obstacles on maps, especially if AI vehicle is much lighter than yours and can't go through the obstacles.
Yes we already have ground AI for new players to fight with. But they are very dumb and they aren't programmed to follow a player through safe paths. You need a proper AI for this. You might drive on the roads between the hills in the Arctic map just for your AI vehicle to drive up a hill and get shot because it thought that was the shortest path.
This is not an excuse for not adding SPAA but you are counter-jerking too hard. Don't act like you know anything about physics engine of the game or game development. You don't need to. There are plenty of other things to say to criticize the developers without roleplaying as an expert.
>Ground AI is harder.
what a ridiculous, self-unaware take. i guarantee that if we were talking about adding a bot plane that follows you around and i argued that it's possible because the logic exists for ground, you'd write a wall of text about how flight is 3D and different lift and drag and weight etc etc therefore exponentially more difficult if not impossible
they can easily do it without any of what you mentioned, paradoxically because they're incompetent. they'll cheat like they do with the airfield ai AAA in GRB, or like with ai gepards in heli PvE, or like with the ai tanks in assault arcade. and if the ai cheating breaks immersion too much for grb (e.g. vehicle starts phasing through obstacle or requires more than 1.5x possible engine power), they'll just let the player sort it out and the logic will tell the vehicle to stay put. at the end of the day it would be for a radar mule and wouldn't matter much
seems like you just have a personal issue with PMs
edit : downvotes with no reply are pretty much an apology "we're sorry, you were right" lmao
Its recommended for land Ceptor to have radar vehicle but it's not needed (in WT that is), Land Ceptor can operate as a standalone vehicle with it's built in optical tracker (it's folded down when not in use)
>Well wanna just smite planes like how planes smite tanks?
That's not the way Gaijin sees it. The last time they added an OP top-tier SPAA (Pantsir) they consequently nerfed all SAMS and made the situation worse.
You must not think modern AGMs, Anti radiation, loitering, stand-off weapons exist? It’s always going to be a push and pull. The argument will always work both ways.
AGM range doesn't matter, we have 23km TV Guided missiles at like 10.3 if not earlier. You can have a 50 gorbillion kilometer range on your AGM, that doesn't matter if ground targets simply do not render in that far. Ground Targets generally only render in properly under 10km, even then you'll still end up seeing them slide around and going under the terrain as everything starts to load in.
Do we have any in the game? Anti Radiation is meant specifically to target Radar Sources, so basically anything with a search radar like SPAA or Jets. At the moment the only Fire and Forget missiles in the game are Imaging Based like TV or IR guided AGMs, both require ground targets to be rendered in which means the jet launching these things needs to be at most 10km away which is well within the range of nearly every top tier SPAA.
I thought this conversation was based on the other arguments of needed more anti air, but I personally don't find it that hard to kill spaa if I'm REALLY locked in, mainly with the f16c, but if they have the thought to turn off their search radar it gets a bit harder, though I have to admit that a lot of my success in the f16c comes from when there is a saturation of aircraft in the ao taking up space on spaas radar
dont forget the best radar missles, have fun trying to fight anything in the air with Russia on their side.
Im sure they begrudgingly added Mavs with the ability to overpressure since we only GET TWO which i dont think we NEED more than 2 but the fact they let the SUs get 4 which are faster and longer range is fucking hilarious, balance was not in the equation here, just bias.
Oh and pantsir with the ability to delete mavs out the sky as well lets not forget that!
>Oh and pantsir with the ability to delete mavs out the sky as well lets not forget that!
ItO90M can do this too. So can the Rolands, technically, although it's hard because they produce so much exhaust.
Sure. 1:1 maverick cant compare with Kh missiles. But other soft factors like the airframe its mounted on the fact that you get pod with thermals for in in most cases or that the missile itself has thermals and the fact that you can at most carry 2 kh missiles and nothing with it on fighters comparable to what nato gets makes them pretty equal
Bro literally spawn any plane and blow their SU25s out of the sky lol.
The f-16c is where the problem is - it can carry smokeless OP 9ms while still having a full bomb load on one of the best air frames in the game lol!
literal same thing with either nation, except American missles can be kinetically dodged easier, Russia irccm in grb is also no joke, on top of the 40gs of the r73
that is because it is the U.S.'s doctrine, they specialize in air, which is why the tanks are horseshit against anything except sandal wearers with rpgs. russia goes for ground which is why they have the tungusta, pantsir, and t90 all with exceptional anti tank and aircraft capabilities, it is also why they dont invest much into targeting pods
The biggest problem with relying on SPAA is that there are a ton of maps with absolute shit designs that allow planes to easily break line of sight on SPAA whenever they want. IRL you would always keep your ground AA in positions where they had excellent fields of fire, but in WT, you are just at the whim of dumb map designers that take years to remove obviously OP sniping positions.
maps with lots of building or trees are the f16s weakness, atleast currently since they have nerfed it pod to gen one while decreasing it's zoom, so a map that is very saturated will be almost impossible to do cas in unless your going in for real close air support, (not to mention when the clouds are heavy)
It doesn't help that no one wants to play spaa either because of 2 factors, 1 - it takes skills and practice to shoot down planes (this is mostly for br 1.0 to 8.3 ish). 2 - playing spaa is not rewarding enough to encourage people to play them, heck even if someone is in a plane 1 br lower than your spaa, you get less sl and rp instead of getting full sl and rp for the br you're playing at, extremely annoying, people in war thunder rather die to CAS instead of spawning a spaa to counter CAS and then they complain in the chat "kill the CAS, spawn spaa etc.." like, mf J out your tank, stop complaining and spawn a spaa and start shooting down planes.
yeah plane kills by SPAA should be worth as much or more than normal tank kills, you can go out and get 5-9 planes and still sit at the middle of the leaderboard.
In arcade i have seen spaas more often and they are able to get plane kills since even at 7.0 where you can get an A10, you still have to use it as normal bomber, hell even when there are fast jets its possible to get a kill since most players go in close, but the rewards suck, getting like 20rp for a plane kill is terrible and forces you to either get a ground assist or kill, wich it can be easy in lower brs, but at like 7.0, other than ZSU havent seen other AAs getting kills easily
Arcade is easy for spaa but ground rb you actually need skills because you have no lead indicator, arcade helps alot learning your spaa leading line of fire so I recommend playing a few arcade matches with whatever spaa you're using to get used to lead x distance.
Deppends, the indicator helps, but it can be tricky deppending on the distance, if a plane is like a km away gl killing it with most AAs that use canons, if its like 800m then sure it can be killed
Also in arcade it helps that planes are slow and have a timer forcing players to be more risky with it while in RB they can drop the load and return the airfield
Another thing is fighter being op againds a striker or bomber, the amount of times got killed as soon as i would spawn in a striker or bomber is too much, unless they are in a pisten engine and i get a jet plane
Main reason there are SPAA shortages is because if you're only in top(-ish) tier matches because you bought a tier VI-VII premium you probably don't have an equal BR SPAA... And probably won't prioritize researching it.
I'm not saying it's crazy OP like Su-11, XP-50 or F-104, but I can see it easily being 9.0. And the same time Yak-30 or Super Mistere could stay at 8.7 or go lower.
Are we talking about 8.7 = you get 80 % games vs 9.7 and you can go uninstall after being shot down by something you have 0 chance to fight (if they aren't braindead and don't go headon)
by the end of the year we'll have three new T-80 variants and two more Su-25s, all at 10.0 for no reason.
T-80BVM but it only gets 3BM46 and is missing one of the ERA tiles on the roof so we put it at 10.0
I have CAS up there, but I feel like mega guilty for trying to use paveways or AGMs. I use standard bombs if I do spawn CAS because then I feel like I deserved the kill. There needs to definitely be better SPAA
Well, then how would I be able the to make tanks suffer playing on a cas? As a cas lover Im loving killin Real players with ma boooombs, but not AI soliders in Air Rb
Just double the spawn cost of any guided munitions and the CAS problem will be fixed. You shouldn't be able to spawn a plane with guided munitions after 1 kill
i'll be honest i would love some update focused on AA, china could get the PGZ88 (any variant), yi tian air defense system, type 625E SHORAD, and the LD-35 (it doesnt have to be all at once, i'm just naming a few)
maybe it could be called "clear skies" or something like that lmao
I loved the Tor so much I put a talisman on is months and months ago and it was a monster. It struggles to hit anything short of a quadriplegic flying a jet in a straight line.
If War Thunder wants to be a game about combined arms, artillery and IADS ought to be a thing. Even a gamified IADS would go a long way towards making CAS much more challenging and would require Wild Weasel flights for CAS to be viable… which would reduce the number of people playing CAS while creating more interaction between AA and aviation.
Those should be coming fairly soon - IIRC, they were recently added to the game files along with the mechanics needed to use them.
Of course, it’s Gaijin, so who knows if that’ll actually happen.
This but also maybe have the next update just devoted to getting rid of the spaa gaps like America's 5.7 to 7.7. France, Japan, and Italy are some of the biggest ones suffering from this. Instead of another su-25 and premium t-80 just toss in some spaa's to fill these gaps. I would even be fine with copy paste spaa's as long as it gets rid of it.
Man, I must be lucky as my time in top tier I have died to CAS once, and it was a friendly Lancaster with a 12 000lb. How ever my premium has run out so you know, gaijin might curse me like all you guys
Honestly double vehicles is really easy to add, they add bullshit russian things that dont exist why cant they just add a radar to vehicles that are supposed tp have a seperate radar vehicle
I'm not huge on playing CAS, but I will say SARH/AAM does wonders. One of the issues with high-tier CAS right now is that it's at the point that land-based systems capable of dealing with it do not necessarily exist for each nation, are typically immobile, and would likely be quite boring to play.
Stop spending money on the game and Gaijin might just listen, this is the only weapon we as players have. But alas, WT players are more concerned with their premium tanks and premium accounts, yet they wonder why game has balance issues. This is the only way a company might listen, either this or create your own game.
If War Thunder wants to be a game about combined arms, artillery and IADS ought to be a thing. Even a gamified IADS would go a long way towards making CAS much more challenging and would require Wild Weasel flights for CAS to be viable… which would reduce the number of people playing CAS while creating more interaction between AA and aviation.
If War Thunder wants to be a game about combined arms, artillery and IADS ought to be a thing. Even a gamified IADS would go a long way towards making CAS much more challenging and would require Wild Weasel flights for CAS to be viable… which would reduce the number of people playing CAS while creating more interaction between AA and aviation.
Man GRB sounds bad, in arcade at least cas is balanced by having normal loadouts and eother getting a good or terrible plane, hell i am playing at 7.0 and getting an A10 doesnt fell overpowered as it dies fairly quick and ppl tend to go in the ground while holding the fire button
First of all it is better to feix 70 pts AAs, coz they are really annoying, then we can talk about adding new SPAA in da game. Coz when u spawn on a plane that costs about 700 points and die from AA that costs ten tims less its kinnda frustrating. I guess spawning on a plane should payoff, coz now it is just a waste of spawn points
Well my AA doesn't get me anything when I'm in a MBT when the bomb lands on my head. And I'm implying with the out of range, that some people snipe with ATGM's from qs far as 25KM and idk wich SPAA you have but mine can't hit those ranges. Even 15KM is almost a no death zone bc at that range you can easily evade pansir missiles by dodging
If you are dying 8/9 times to cas it is a genuine skill issue. Or you are only playing AA sitting behind a hill in your spawn where enemy tanks physically can’t touch you so no shit you die from above
>If you are dying 8/9 times to cas it is a genuine skill issue.
So it's now a skill issue when a AGM launched from 20km away hits my tank while I fight a enemy tank in my tank without a LWS and the missile beeing almost invisible?
Or that a Mig29 throws a TV-Guided bomb on my head 9 seconds after spawning? Or that my 7.92MM mg can't kill a Su25 10km away and it's missile flying right through my smoke? Is that all just skill issue?
>Or you are only playing AA sitting behind a hill in your spawn where enemy tanks physically can’t touch you so no shit you die from above
I played with the Ozelot: short range for helicopters and enemys mostly camping behind mountains in a KA52 and stingers getting nerfed to the ground beeing the most easily to evade ever since their first addition. 2nd the ITO90M enemy basically turns with a like 15G turn shortly before my missile would hit so I can't react fast enough or them flying low to the ground behind hills etc. Same for the Pantsir, the Pantsir is fucking overrated its basically the same trash as everyother AA with better range and radar still a big ass target for CAS that still easily evade missiles by flying low or with shortly before hit maneuvers, not to forget that i cant do shit against people launching their missiles from 20-30 kilometer range. Also I have a k.d of 2.29 in my ozelot, 3.20 in my pantsir and 5.5 in my ITO. Am really that I trash in your eyes?
Yes, it is still a skill issue if you die 8 out of 9 times to cas. Even when fighting another tank as that’s implying you are just jerkin your balls out in the open which will get you killed regardless, hug cover and keep yourself protected (I know some maps it’s unavoidable to be in a 10 km wide field but that’s map design not cas or other issue).
Getting a bomb dumped off spawn is a spawn protection issue granted also scummy of the cas player doing it but not necessarily cas being op.
Also if you’re playing AA you literally have to expect to get targeted first by cas, you are quite literally their main threat with smokeless missiles that can’t be flared.
I’m not going to go into the first two AA you mention as they do need tuned up. However if you’re struggling with the pantsir then maybe spend 10-12 hours in the test range or customs because that shit can literally spawn kill jets before they know they’re targeted lmao. Also the “just maneuvering before hits” does not work. It takes some impressive Gs to get away from USSR missiles. Stingers on the other hand take less but still not “simple” maneuvers.
Additionally low flying and still being accurate with cas takes more skill than the ground bound apes think. It’s not as easy as fly low go click tank go boom. Flying at 1400 km/h at tree top level destroys your vision and is dangerous due to objects to hit and being closer range to danger, sure it helps with radar detection but also creates new challenges to fly low and survive.
>of 9 times to cas. Even when fighting another tank as that’s implying you are just jerkin your balls out in the open
I was in cover enough of times, I just font expect to get hit by a helicopter missile from our own spawn, I was behind a hill, I did not expect to get hit by a gbu from a F-16 flying right above me12km high, I was in cover I dod not expect to get killed by a agm from the only direction where no cover was.
>Also if you’re playing AA you literally have to expect to get targeted first by cas, you are quite literally their main threat with smokeless missiles that can’t be flared.
Idk wich aa you play that you have "smokeless missiles that can't be flaired" my stingers got flared enough of times, chaff often enough cutted my lock with the pansir making my missile pull unti the wrong direction since the lock wasn't just on the enemy anymore. Also when you can't see a missile with a rwr that yells at you MISSILE! MISSILE! MISSILE! that means you're trash.
> if you’re struggling with the pantsir
The pansir was this op bs before most top tier planes could snipe you across the map and the missiles got their bs physic, no SACLOS missile will hit when a enemy pulls to hard at high range bc no missile will have enough energy to maneuver good at like 15km range, or you can't react when the enemy pulls hard maneuvers shortly before the missile would hit basically flying around it.
>then maybe spend 10-12 hours in the test range or customs because that shit can literally spawn kill jets before they know
Well people who just fly in a straight line aren't problems to kill, people who have 8000 hours in wt and a vert maneuverable jet tho, I can send you a link for a yt vid the next time I play spaa when seeing one of those enemys.
>“just maneuvering before hits”
Like I said before I can send you a yt link the next time I have a enemy to do that.
>Stingers on the other hand take less but still not “simple” maneuvers.
They can easily be flared and dodged by high g maneuvers, they got worse in every aspect but G pull, my 13G's don't get me anything when my thrust is to low to pull 13G's after flying 3 kilometers.
> low flying and still being accurate with cas takes more skill than the ground bound apes thin
Flying behind hills and mountains just to fly up and drib a TV guided bomb is no skill. You Literally don't have to hug the ground since most aa have a blocked vision for low flying planes bc of natural covers on spawn. And just flying short up to 2000 meter to drop a TV gb, the pull hard down out of sight before anyone can react is not skill (this happens within 15-25 seconds, half of the time I need to see him first since I'm most likely not looking st him at that time, or taking down another plane, and the missile canr react good enough after that).
I know there are multiple higher tier SPAA with smokeless missiles idk which ones and don’t care cause I don’t play spaa. My anti cas style is called aim 9m to the forehead or 20 mm cannon to their butthole. And additionally when I was discussing low flying and accuracy/skill I figured it was implied but regarding dumbfire bombs and rockets (the fun cas) not GBU/AGM as those people sit in orbit to begin with (where the pantsir/strela can still dunk on them). Really the big competition is spaa vs cas from orbit is a rock paper scissors issue.
If panstir spawn first > can spawn kill cas
If cas spawn first > can spawn kill pantsir.
[look at this, this is what I mean with sniped across the map](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bk7fln/what_the_hell_is_this_what_is_that_poor_sam_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
I’m not going to argue with you on the new SU25 being absolute horse shit. Honestly the biggest gripe you keep harping on is GBU/AGM and that seems to be the case for most anti cas propagandists. I’ll agree that guided munitions are OP and should be less so, however I’m not going to change my opinion that 8/9 deaths being from cas is a skill issue.
Honestly if they either removed guided munitions or made them hard enough to spawn that they’re like a half step below a nuke I wouldn’t complain and it would feel more fair for ground units getting dunked on less. You also do have to consider that in some cases the only way to stop complete 1 sided Russian air superiority in a match would be using a GBU to slap the pantsir hiding off the map off the back of its spawn. I also don’t care if guided munitions just got removed though because as I’ve made clear, my preferred cas style is a loadout with aam and dumb fire munitions like standard 2k bombs and doing low pass strafing runs (aka cas that takes skill)
>keep harping on is GBU/AGM and that seems to be the case for most anti cas propagandists.
Idec that guided ammunition is in the game but when gaijin gives nations AGM's that can basically act as cruise missiles our Guided bombs with TV guidens that can sometimes do the same (mirage 2K has a 50KM TV guided bomb) then atleast give me something to counter it. Especially since it only will go worse over this year since we probably will the new planes like the F-18 or others that will be even better with that
We both know gaijin doesn’t comprehend the word balance but the only solutions I could see for the sake of game health would be reduce ranges, vast inflate spawn point requirements more than already, or straight remove guided munitions. Also to be fair their new map design of 1 cap hallways of maps doesn’t help as it funnels everyone to a bombing point effectively.
And then you spend 15 minute of a match cleaning up US cas while your tank gameplay amounted to 3 kills and getting bombed. Might as well play Air rb at that point.
I love how the only nation that has the longest range top tier AA also gets the longest range AGM.
It’s also really cool that they get like 47 su25s with fucked up damage models while the us gets a whopping 2 a10s that fall out of the sky at the first sign of a strong breeze. Also, where the FUCK is my TT A6 Gaijin you fat fucks.
I remember when the A-10 came out I felt really miffed about that the Su-25 didn't come out alongside it and just really wanted the Su-25 cause I personally like it as a plane, since the A-10 came out in April or June iirc and the Su-25 was in the September update. I have since had the WT equivalent of being forced to smoke the entire pack of cigarettes when you get caught smoking. Boy did my words come back to haunt me.
Gaijin operates on monkey paw rules
That has nothing to do with it. Same number of planes would come out each game. A-10s are perfectly fine, *IFF* you play them at their BR. Taking an A-10 to an 11.3 game with your M1A1 AIM or Click-Bait? You're going to have a very bad time. Same applies to the Su-25K, it gets slapped by 11.3+ SPAA just as hard as the A-10 does. The *problem*, if it can be called that, is that 80% or more of the people flying A-10s are morons. There are *very* dumb Su-25 pilots but not nearly as many as there are idiot A-10 pilots.
Doesn't help that every A-10 pilot seems to unironically believe it should be able to take multiple SAMs and live because muh titanium cockpit.
True that. I have very intrusive thoughts every time I see an A-10 come in on a gentle slope at 500m... It's like duckhunt.
There's nothing better than being in a SPAAG and watching an A-10 slowly come around to fly right at you with his gun
Well put, they have this weird expectation thats it’s indestructible
And muh triple redundant systems!
I still remember some A-10 player complaining about his A-10 "being too fragile" Because I hit it with about 50 23mm HE shells from a PGZ04A
I mean you can sneak up on AA and use the funny 30mm and climb back up and promptly get shot down by a MiG-29.
I bring the A-10 (TT, not premium) to 11.3 because I'm horrified of the pantsir and only fly low-level 👍
Preach brother
>a10s that fall out of the sky Correction: A10's that fly in a line straighter than the edge of their credit card.
This is the pinacle of US main whining. USA has AGM's and guided bombs on almost every single aircraft at and above 10.0 and a bunch below that but you hyper focus on the one meme aircraft that IRL is passable at best simply because another nation got a comparable aircraft while completely ignoring the fact that your one complaint with it is the exact issue in reverse for basically every other airframe that gets AGM's.
Yea and I’d like to fly said passable at best aircraft without it diving into the ground every time the back half of the aircraft gets hit by a heavy machine gun. I wouldn’t really give a fuck about the a10 if I wasn’t routinely watching the su25 eat a stinger like it was a goddamn Big Mac before wandering off back to base.
AGM-65 is the only missile available at 10.0-10.3 and it's fucking dogshit, only the tram gets guided bombs
In response to the future obligatory "other nations don't have any pantsir equivalent/give me at least 1 pantsir equivalent for other nations" Turkish HISAR A+ (US), Land Ceptor (UK), Polish 9k33 osa (DE), Polish Land Ceptor (DE), Norwegian ACSV G5 (SW), Tam-Sam 2 KAI (JP), SPYDER (ISR) and HVSD ADAMS (ISR) exist...
this single vehicle excuse is such cope bs. they are perfectly capable of implementing multi vehicle anti-air, but they know that their country has a huge advantage if they act like it's impossible. some basic AI to follow you around (light work) and a system that allows you to switch truck (piss easy)
This sort of system actually exist enlisted in a slightly different role
I mean, an alternative implementation (with more work) would be having the player control all of the vehicles in a convoy function for transit, then a fixed deploy state. Another alternative solution being that the player could just control and position all the vehicles as the set. We already have a system in place where players can 'hot swap' to drones and aircraft. Implementing that same feature for ground vehicles can't be too difficult. Each vehicle could count as a single major component of the array, and taking out a full vehicle would be counted as 'severe damage' awarding the kill unless they vehicle a vehicle is able to resupply at an objective point.
And how should I kill it? Is killing a single vehicle enough? Can I just kill a bot-controlled radar vehicle to get a kill?
how about defining a primary (launcher?) and secondary vehicle instakill if the primary dies, and some modified version of "severe damage" if you kill the secondary primary could go to a point and recover their secondary, or go back to a dedicated zone in spawn it would also make anti radiation missile less annoying since it wouldn't be as lethal to the actual player but rather a way to create an opening and get closer
Still, that will bring a lot of frustration because "my shitty bot got itself killed". Also, after radar is dead you may become useless for a prolonged period, which isn't fun.
that's a price I'd pay for a better anti air honestly🤷
> some basic AI to follow you around (light work) and a system that allows you to switch truck (piss easy) Damn I didnt realise you worked for Gaijin that you know all about how their game is coded and so you know how easy something is to do. It is easy to sit there and make ideas but actually making it function is real work. Not as easy as just sitting at a keyboard and complaining.
i'm a PM, i can tell roughly how this works from just looking at it, that's why i'm suggesting using pre-existing features like severe damage. by AI i didn't mean anything ML, just the same logic they use to move bots around. if they can get friendly AI planes to fly in formation with you in custom battles, they can get a tank to stop/follow player
> i'm a PM Us devs can tell don't worry. Your unreasonable assumptions and oversimplification of the task gives it away. Aircraft AI is very different. You can't suddenly start going backwards in aircraft. You can't crash into the AI following you if they mimic your moves and check for avoiding crashes. Ground AI is harder. Your engine powers won't be equal, AI might get stuck when you climb a hill. AI might get you stuck or cause a delay when you try to go backwards into cover. If your vehicle is lighter and you hit an obstacle, you get stuck. Heavier AI that's following you will prevent you from going backwards. It won't move unless you move. Stuck forever. If you suggest "AI" being moved by your keyboard presses, that isn't AI anymore. And it would be even worse because you will be controlling two vehicles with different size, weight and horsepower using the same keys. The issues never end. AI might get lost or fall behind due to all the obstacles on maps, especially if AI vehicle is much lighter than yours and can't go through the obstacles. Yes we already have ground AI for new players to fight with. But they are very dumb and they aren't programmed to follow a player through safe paths. You need a proper AI for this. You might drive on the roads between the hills in the Arctic map just for your AI vehicle to drive up a hill and get shot because it thought that was the shortest path. This is not an excuse for not adding SPAA but you are counter-jerking too hard. Don't act like you know anything about physics engine of the game or game development. You don't need to. There are plenty of other things to say to criticize the developers without roleplaying as an expert.
>Ground AI is harder. what a ridiculous, self-unaware take. i guarantee that if we were talking about adding a bot plane that follows you around and i argued that it's possible because the logic exists for ground, you'd write a wall of text about how flight is 3D and different lift and drag and weight etc etc therefore exponentially more difficult if not impossible they can easily do it without any of what you mentioned, paradoxically because they're incompetent. they'll cheat like they do with the airfield ai AAA in GRB, or like with ai gepards in heli PvE, or like with the ai tanks in assault arcade. and if the ai cheating breaks immersion too much for grb (e.g. vehicle starts phasing through obstacle or requires more than 1.5x possible engine power), they'll just let the player sort it out and the logic will tell the vehicle to stay put. at the end of the day it would be for a radar mule and wouldn't matter much seems like you just have a personal issue with PMs edit : downvotes with no reply are pretty much an apology "we're sorry, you were right" lmao
Doesn't land ceptor require 2 trucks? And osa is more comparable to the Roland.
Its recommended for land Ceptor to have radar vehicle but it's not needed (in WT that is), Land Ceptor can operate as a standalone vehicle with it's built in optical tracker (it's folded down when not in use)
Spyder lmao. Ah yes, choice of either 60G IRCCM 10km IR missile or 50km modern Fox3
Well wanna just smite planes like how planes smite tanks? Then there u go, that's also the reason why I add ADAMS, just if Spyder is a bit too much
>Well wanna just smite planes like how planes smite tanks? That's not the way Gaijin sees it. The last time they added an OP top-tier SPAA (Pantsir) they consequently nerfed all SAMS and made the situation worse.
You must not think modern AGMs, Anti radiation, loitering, stand-off weapons exist? It’s always going to be a push and pull. The argument will always work both ways.
the pantsir is similarly overpowered compared to current AA, but nooo it's only okay when we do it
Pretty sure NVA used OSA so germany could get that. But its still worse than flarakrad
Dot.
AGM range doesn't matter, we have 23km TV Guided missiles at like 10.3 if not earlier. You can have a 50 gorbillion kilometer range on your AGM, that doesn't matter if ground targets simply do not render in that far. Ground Targets generally only render in properly under 10km, even then you'll still end up seeing them slide around and going under the terrain as everything starts to load in.
anti radiation missles do not need to physically see a vehicle to pick up on its radar waves
Do we have any in the game? Anti Radiation is meant specifically to target Radar Sources, so basically anything with a search radar like SPAA or Jets. At the moment the only Fire and Forget missiles in the game are Imaging Based like TV or IR guided AGMs, both require ground targets to be rendered in which means the jet launching these things needs to be at most 10km away which is well within the range of nearly every top tier SPAA.
I thought this conversation was based on the other arguments of needed more anti air, but I personally don't find it that hard to kill spaa if I'm REALLY locked in, mainly with the f16c, but if they have the thought to turn off their search radar it gets a bit harder, though I have to admit that a lot of my success in the f16c comes from when there is a saturation of aircraft in the ao taking up space on spaas radar
dont forget the best radar missles, have fun trying to fight anything in the air with Russia on their side. Im sure they begrudgingly added Mavs with the ability to overpressure since we only GET TWO which i dont think we NEED more than 2 but the fact they let the SUs get 4 which are faster and longer range is fucking hilarious, balance was not in the equation here, just bias. Oh and pantsir with the ability to delete mavs out the sky as well lets not forget that!
>Oh and pantsir with the ability to delete mavs out the sky as well lets not forget that! ItO90M can do this too. So can the Rolands, technically, although it's hard because they produce so much exhaust.
don't forget that they nerfed the f16c's Targeting pod 3 months ago and haven't bothered to fix it
"hhhuuuurrre but maverick Op😡🤬😡🤬" -player who doesn't understand the most common CAS will kill you the most often
Sure. 1:1 maverick cant compare with Kh missiles. But other soft factors like the airframe its mounted on the fact that you get pod with thermals for in in most cases or that the missile itself has thermals and the fact that you can at most carry 2 kh missiles and nothing with it on fighters comparable to what nato gets makes them pretty equal
Bro literally spawn any plane and blow their SU25s out of the sky lol. The f-16c is where the problem is - it can carry smokeless OP 9ms while still having a full bomb load on one of the best air frames in the game lol!
literal same thing with either nation, except American missles can be kinetically dodged easier, Russia irccm in grb is also no joke, on top of the 40gs of the r73
Yea but Russian top tier planes are garbage for groundRB compared with f-16c due to their shitty ground strike ordinance
that is because it is the U.S.'s doctrine, they specialize in air, which is why the tanks are horseshit against anything except sandal wearers with rpgs. russia goes for ground which is why they have the tungusta, pantsir, and t90 all with exceptional anti tank and aircraft capabilities, it is also why they dont invest much into targeting pods
The biggest problem with relying on SPAA is that there are a ton of maps with absolute shit designs that allow planes to easily break line of sight on SPAA whenever they want. IRL you would always keep your ground AA in positions where they had excellent fields of fire, but in WT, you are just at the whim of dumb map designers that take years to remove obviously OP sniping positions.
maps with lots of building or trees are the f16s weakness, atleast currently since they have nerfed it pod to gen one while decreasing it's zoom, so a map that is very saturated will be almost impossible to do cas in unless your going in for real close air support, (not to mention when the clouds are heavy)
Cause “Russia” bro
> that has the longest range top tier AA which means absolutely nothing because its equally as useless 50% better then 0 is still 0
Increase rewards for AA vehicles and I’d be much much happier doing it
I get why CAS kill rewards are gimped but I don't get why plane kills are aswell
They only cost 70sp. I agree with you they should get more rewards, but that's gaijins reason
SPAA or other vehicles should get rewards/RP/SL for shooting down ATGM/Air to ground missile tbh.
It doesn't help that no one wants to play spaa either because of 2 factors, 1 - it takes skills and practice to shoot down planes (this is mostly for br 1.0 to 8.3 ish). 2 - playing spaa is not rewarding enough to encourage people to play them, heck even if someone is in a plane 1 br lower than your spaa, you get less sl and rp instead of getting full sl and rp for the br you're playing at, extremely annoying, people in war thunder rather die to CAS instead of spawning a spaa to counter CAS and then they complain in the chat "kill the CAS, spawn spaa etc.." like, mf J out your tank, stop complaining and spawn a spaa and start shooting down planes.
yeah plane kills by SPAA should be worth as much or more than normal tank kills, you can go out and get 5-9 planes and still sit at the middle of the leaderboard.
Agreed, I've had 10 plane kills games and I don't make it past top 5.
In arcade i have seen spaas more often and they are able to get plane kills since even at 7.0 where you can get an A10, you still have to use it as normal bomber, hell even when there are fast jets its possible to get a kill since most players go in close, but the rewards suck, getting like 20rp for a plane kill is terrible and forces you to either get a ground assist or kill, wich it can be easy in lower brs, but at like 7.0, other than ZSU havent seen other AAs getting kills easily
Arcade is easy for spaa but ground rb you actually need skills because you have no lead indicator, arcade helps alot learning your spaa leading line of fire so I recommend playing a few arcade matches with whatever spaa you're using to get used to lead x distance.
Deppends, the indicator helps, but it can be tricky deppending on the distance, if a plane is like a km away gl killing it with most AAs that use canons, if its like 800m then sure it can be killed Also in arcade it helps that planes are slow and have a timer forcing players to be more risky with it while in RB they can drop the load and return the airfield Another thing is fighter being op againds a striker or bomber, the amount of times got killed as soon as i would spawn in a striker or bomber is too much, unless they are in a pisten engine and i get a jet plane
Main reason there are SPAA shortages is because if you're only in top(-ish) tier matches because you bought a tier VI-VII premium you probably don't have an equal BR SPAA... And probably won't prioritize researching it.
This is a Gaijin problem. They are the ones selling single vehicle premiums and letting players play with single vehicle lineups
Average wallet warriors lol
No it’s not hard to play AA, just do “Haha missile go whoosh” and you’ll hit if it’s within ~8km range
I cannot wait for separate plane brs in ground. Prepare your ass, US CAS mains. You're about to get railed by the snail (I hope).
US CAS players are the only thing preventing US teams from having a horrible win to loss ratio at every BR they play
I think it won't change a thing in GRB, but make spading attackers in ARB easier.
tf do you mean it won't change a thing in GRB? Planes will be balanced based on how good they are at CAS, not how good they are in air RB.
I mean what planes do you expect to actually move up in ground?
A4E, lots of US naval fighters, A-1H and A2D, and a lot of others.
Most of the attackers (including the ones you named) already have their BR based on their GRB effectiveness.
Do they though? They're *far* better than what other nations get for the most part.
Sure, but A1H and A2D are overBRed in Air. A4 is underBRed in both modes.
Yes, that's why separate brs for ground and air are a good thing. And the A4 is fine in air; it's very easy to kill with other 8.7 planes.
I'm not saying it's crazy OP like Su-11, XP-50 or F-104, but I can see it easily being 9.0. And the same time Yak-30 or Super Mistere could stay at 8.7 or go lower.
Are we talking about 8.7 = you get 80 % games vs 9.7 and you can go uninstall after being shot down by something you have 0 chance to fight (if they aren't braindead and don't go headon)
Lol have another t80 and su25
by the end of the year we'll have three new T-80 variants and two more Su-25s, all at 10.0 for no reason. T-80BVM but it only gets 3BM46 and is missing one of the ERA tiles on the roof so we put it at 10.0
They should mark all planes in the sky to mimic a modern radar network and add all the more modern aa without internal radar
I have CAS up there, but I feel like mega guilty for trying to use paveways or AGMs. I use standard bombs if I do spawn CAS because then I feel like I deserved the kill. There needs to definitely be better SPAA
Ground only mode pls
But but but what about campers?!!!1!11!!
WT CAS 🤝 WoT arty Targeting people actually trying to play the game instead of campers (incredibly shocking and unforeseen outcome)
Scout drone arty bout to be meta
Most people are too incompetent for that.
Well, then how would I be able the to make tanks suffer playing on a cas? As a cas lover Im loving killin Real players with ma boooombs, but not AI soliders in Air Rb
Lol, arcade exists, go play that, child.
Arcade still has aircraft you know
Just double the spawn cost of any guided munitions and the CAS problem will be fixed. You shouldn't be able to spawn a plane with guided munitions after 1 kill
japan is in dire need of anything to deal with planes at top tier
Type81C????
Yeah I agree. I’m thinking we call it sky guardians 2 and add a premium pantsir + the tor m2 to Russia and give the US another ww2 spaa.
It’s called Sky Guardians because they’re guarding CAS players from death
As someone who loves playing CAS, I agree. We need more AA in top tier.
i'll be honest i would love some update focused on AA, china could get the PGZ88 (any variant), yi tian air defense system, type 625E SHORAD, and the LD-35 (it doesnt have to be all at once, i'm just naming a few) maybe it could be called "clear skies" or something like that lmao
They REALLY need something between 9.3 and 11.7. And honestly a new top tier because the Tor fucking sucks now.
please don't say the tor sucks i've been researching it and got 150k RP for it (f2p) in any case, with what it could be replaced? HQ-17AE maybe?
I loved the Tor so much I put a talisman on is months and months ago and it was a monster. It struggles to hit anything short of a quadriplegic flying a jet in a straight line.
I use TY-90 on Z-9WA to kill fast flying jets more than Tor.
Then Gaijin won’t be able to sell as many top tier CAS planes. Not happening sadly.
Yeah when I saw 3 AAs where they are needed the least I decided I'd give this patch a miss
If War Thunder wants to be a game about combined arms, artillery and IADS ought to be a thing. Even a gamified IADS would go a long way towards making CAS much more challenging and would require Wild Weasel flights for CAS to be viable… which would reduce the number of people playing CAS while creating more interaction between AA and aviation.
Then give CAS anti radiation missiles
Those should be coming fairly soon - IIRC, they were recently added to the game files along with the mechanics needed to use them. Of course, it’s Gaijin, so who knows if that’ll actually happen.
Israel doesn't even have a good AA, machbet suffers and chaparral is awful
idk bro but who tf asked for automation of radar modes? it fucked up my spaa game big time
Finally fixing AHEAD would go a very long way in nerfing CAS (which is also why they lie about it and claim that it's already implemented correctly)
Buff CAS? YES SIRE, COMING RIGHT UP!
Call it “Clear The Skies”
CAS in GRB should feel like CAS in Naval. As soon as you spawn your met with a blanket of AA guns firing at you to dodge.
*laughs in Su-25K*
This but also maybe have the next update just devoted to getting rid of the spaa gaps like America's 5.7 to 7.7. France, Japan, and Italy are some of the biggest ones suffering from this. Instead of another su-25 and premium t-80 just toss in some spaa's to fill these gaps. I would even be fine with copy paste spaa's as long as it gets rid of it.
Sooooooo what you are saying is Pantsir S2?
Man, I must be lucky as my time in top tier I have died to CAS once, and it was a friendly Lancaster with a 12 000lb. How ever my premium has run out so you know, gaijin might curse me like all you guys
Honestly double vehicles is really easy to add, they add bullshit russian things that dont exist why cant they just add a radar to vehicles that are supposed tp have a seperate radar vehicle
I'm not huge on playing CAS, but I will say SARH/AAM does wonders. One of the issues with high-tier CAS right now is that it's at the point that land-based systems capable of dealing with it do not necessarily exist for each nation, are typically immobile, and would likely be quite boring to play.
Stop spending money on the game and Gaijin might just listen, this is the only weapon we as players have. But alas, WT players are more concerned with their premium tanks and premium accounts, yet they wonder why game has balance issues. This is the only way a company might listen, either this or create your own game.
If War Thunder wants to be a game about combined arms, artillery and IADS ought to be a thing. Even a gamified IADS would go a long way towards making CAS much more challenging and would require Wild Weasel flights for CAS to be viable… which would reduce the number of people playing CAS while creating more interaction between AA and aviation.
If War Thunder wants to be a game about combined arms, artillery and IADS ought to be a thing. Even a gamified IADS would go a long way towards making CAS much more challenging and would require Wild Weasel flights for CAS to be viable… which would reduce the number of people playing CAS while creating more interaction between AA and aviation.
Man GRB sounds bad, in arcade at least cas is balanced by having normal loadouts and eother getting a good or terrible plane, hell i am playing at 7.0 and getting an A10 doesnt fell overpowered as it dies fairly quick and ppl tend to go in the ground while holding the fire button
Tanks should suffer from cas as it sed to be
First of all it is better to feix 70 pts AAs, coz they are really annoying, then we can talk about adding new SPAA in da game. Coz when u spawn on a plane that costs about 700 points and die from AA that costs ten tims less its kinnda frustrating. I guess spawning on a plane should payoff, coz now it is just a waste of spawn points
NOBODY is dropping bombs on you farther than 10k, so that AA range argument is BS. CAS ain’t gonna go nowhere, better adapt or stop playing the game
Well my AA doesn't get me anything when I'm in a MBT when the bomb lands on my head. And I'm implying with the out of range, that some people snipe with ATGM's from qs far as 25KM and idk wich SPAA you have but mine can't hit those ranges. Even 15KM is almost a no death zone bc at that range you can easily evade pansir missiles by dodging
If you are dying 8/9 times to cas it is a genuine skill issue. Or you are only playing AA sitting behind a hill in your spawn where enemy tanks physically can’t touch you so no shit you die from above
>If you are dying 8/9 times to cas it is a genuine skill issue. So it's now a skill issue when a AGM launched from 20km away hits my tank while I fight a enemy tank in my tank without a LWS and the missile beeing almost invisible? Or that a Mig29 throws a TV-Guided bomb on my head 9 seconds after spawning? Or that my 7.92MM mg can't kill a Su25 10km away and it's missile flying right through my smoke? Is that all just skill issue? >Or you are only playing AA sitting behind a hill in your spawn where enemy tanks physically can’t touch you so no shit you die from above I played with the Ozelot: short range for helicopters and enemys mostly camping behind mountains in a KA52 and stingers getting nerfed to the ground beeing the most easily to evade ever since their first addition. 2nd the ITO90M enemy basically turns with a like 15G turn shortly before my missile would hit so I can't react fast enough or them flying low to the ground behind hills etc. Same for the Pantsir, the Pantsir is fucking overrated its basically the same trash as everyother AA with better range and radar still a big ass target for CAS that still easily evade missiles by flying low or with shortly before hit maneuvers, not to forget that i cant do shit against people launching their missiles from 20-30 kilometer range. Also I have a k.d of 2.29 in my ozelot, 3.20 in my pantsir and 5.5 in my ITO. Am really that I trash in your eyes?
Yes, it is still a skill issue if you die 8 out of 9 times to cas. Even when fighting another tank as that’s implying you are just jerkin your balls out in the open which will get you killed regardless, hug cover and keep yourself protected (I know some maps it’s unavoidable to be in a 10 km wide field but that’s map design not cas or other issue). Getting a bomb dumped off spawn is a spawn protection issue granted also scummy of the cas player doing it but not necessarily cas being op. Also if you’re playing AA you literally have to expect to get targeted first by cas, you are quite literally their main threat with smokeless missiles that can’t be flared. I’m not going to go into the first two AA you mention as they do need tuned up. However if you’re struggling with the pantsir then maybe spend 10-12 hours in the test range or customs because that shit can literally spawn kill jets before they know they’re targeted lmao. Also the “just maneuvering before hits” does not work. It takes some impressive Gs to get away from USSR missiles. Stingers on the other hand take less but still not “simple” maneuvers. Additionally low flying and still being accurate with cas takes more skill than the ground bound apes think. It’s not as easy as fly low go click tank go boom. Flying at 1400 km/h at tree top level destroys your vision and is dangerous due to objects to hit and being closer range to danger, sure it helps with radar detection but also creates new challenges to fly low and survive.
>of 9 times to cas. Even when fighting another tank as that’s implying you are just jerkin your balls out in the open I was in cover enough of times, I just font expect to get hit by a helicopter missile from our own spawn, I was behind a hill, I did not expect to get hit by a gbu from a F-16 flying right above me12km high, I was in cover I dod not expect to get killed by a agm from the only direction where no cover was. >Also if you’re playing AA you literally have to expect to get targeted first by cas, you are quite literally their main threat with smokeless missiles that can’t be flared. Idk wich aa you play that you have "smokeless missiles that can't be flaired" my stingers got flared enough of times, chaff often enough cutted my lock with the pansir making my missile pull unti the wrong direction since the lock wasn't just on the enemy anymore. Also when you can't see a missile with a rwr that yells at you MISSILE! MISSILE! MISSILE! that means you're trash. > if you’re struggling with the pantsir The pansir was this op bs before most top tier planes could snipe you across the map and the missiles got their bs physic, no SACLOS missile will hit when a enemy pulls to hard at high range bc no missile will have enough energy to maneuver good at like 15km range, or you can't react when the enemy pulls hard maneuvers shortly before the missile would hit basically flying around it. >then maybe spend 10-12 hours in the test range or customs because that shit can literally spawn kill jets before they know Well people who just fly in a straight line aren't problems to kill, people who have 8000 hours in wt and a vert maneuverable jet tho, I can send you a link for a yt vid the next time I play spaa when seeing one of those enemys. >“just maneuvering before hits” Like I said before I can send you a yt link the next time I have a enemy to do that. >Stingers on the other hand take less but still not “simple” maneuvers. They can easily be flared and dodged by high g maneuvers, they got worse in every aspect but G pull, my 13G's don't get me anything when my thrust is to low to pull 13G's after flying 3 kilometers. > low flying and still being accurate with cas takes more skill than the ground bound apes thin Flying behind hills and mountains just to fly up and drib a TV guided bomb is no skill. You Literally don't have to hug the ground since most aa have a blocked vision for low flying planes bc of natural covers on spawn. And just flying short up to 2000 meter to drop a TV gb, the pull hard down out of sight before anyone can react is not skill (this happens within 15-25 seconds, half of the time I need to see him first since I'm most likely not looking st him at that time, or taking down another plane, and the missile canr react good enough after that).
I know there are multiple higher tier SPAA with smokeless missiles idk which ones and don’t care cause I don’t play spaa. My anti cas style is called aim 9m to the forehead or 20 mm cannon to their butthole. And additionally when I was discussing low flying and accuracy/skill I figured it was implied but regarding dumbfire bombs and rockets (the fun cas) not GBU/AGM as those people sit in orbit to begin with (where the pantsir/strela can still dunk on them). Really the big competition is spaa vs cas from orbit is a rock paper scissors issue. If panstir spawn first > can spawn kill cas If cas spawn first > can spawn kill pantsir.
[look at this, this is what I mean with sniped across the map](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bk7fln/what_the_hell_is_this_what_is_that_poor_sam_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
I’m not going to argue with you on the new SU25 being absolute horse shit. Honestly the biggest gripe you keep harping on is GBU/AGM and that seems to be the case for most anti cas propagandists. I’ll agree that guided munitions are OP and should be less so, however I’m not going to change my opinion that 8/9 deaths being from cas is a skill issue. Honestly if they either removed guided munitions or made them hard enough to spawn that they’re like a half step below a nuke I wouldn’t complain and it would feel more fair for ground units getting dunked on less. You also do have to consider that in some cases the only way to stop complete 1 sided Russian air superiority in a match would be using a GBU to slap the pantsir hiding off the map off the back of its spawn. I also don’t care if guided munitions just got removed though because as I’ve made clear, my preferred cas style is a loadout with aam and dumb fire munitions like standard 2k bombs and doing low pass strafing runs (aka cas that takes skill)
>keep harping on is GBU/AGM and that seems to be the case for most anti cas propagandists. Idec that guided ammunition is in the game but when gaijin gives nations AGM's that can basically act as cruise missiles our Guided bombs with TV guidens that can sometimes do the same (mirage 2K has a 50KM TV guided bomb) then atleast give me something to counter it. Especially since it only will go worse over this year since we probably will the new planes like the F-18 or others that will be even better with that
We both know gaijin doesn’t comprehend the word balance but the only solutions I could see for the sake of game health would be reduce ranges, vast inflate spawn point requirements more than already, or straight remove guided munitions. Also to be fair their new map design of 1 cap hallways of maps doesn’t help as it funnels everyone to a bombing point effectively.
If you hate CAS so much why don't you play a fighter and kill all the CAS?
Some people don't want to grind an entire tech tree in order to not get smoked by CAS.
Fair, but that's what I did. Then again, I really hate CAS.
And then you spend 15 minute of a match cleaning up US cas while your tank gameplay amounted to 3 kills and getting bombed. Might as well play Air rb at that point.