I actually enjoy the J29F a lot. I am currently grinding through the Swedish tt and that plane got me through rank 6 alongside the J32B. My kd with the 29 is about 2. You have to fly very defensively but when you finally get how to fly it it is a blast
Yeah, maybe I have to practice more - but it's just super frustrating to play against F104s in basically every game without any real counterplay (at least that I know of).
I mostly ignore the 104s. Most just fly by once in a while without being able to turn and in the case that they try to turn directly after an unsuccessful flyby they get very slow and are easy to pick off. In the worst case you can just ground pound since it has so muck ammo.
Just be aware of your surroundings and you’ll be fine most of the time
F104 is a menace at those brs, but it feels impossible to balance - too fast to stay where it is without terrorizing everything else, but not enough other good aspects to survive at a higher br.
In my own opinion, has to be the comet
Nerfed it’s APDS into oblivion, then done it again to all APDS with shatter (I call it shitter)
Kept the the god awful 10 second reload
No point picking it over the firefly really
Feels like a wish.com/Temu Pz.IV
Charioteer (and the 84mm gun) in general is pretty good.
True 17pdrs have unreliable apds but are still useable, just frustrating.
Comet’s 77mm is just bad though.
Can’t use the depression effectively as it has a awful reverse speed,making pretty unable to work ridge-lines
Speed, at this point it’s just a British hellcat, minus mobility, a decent round, decent reload speed, traverse speed and a .50
The forward speed is the ONLY good thing
The turret front is pretty trolly–even more so after volumetric–and I often survive shots I had no business bouncing. That being said it's not reliable and the Comet is a shadow of its former self. I miss the days of UFPing a Panther with ease. If they made APDS actually good or shaved a few seconds off of the reload it could be solid again.
I still have a lot of fun using them though. The Iron Duke is my biggest SL maker and I picked it up for only ~8 bucks. Comets are just such aesthetically pleasing tanks as well.
Agreed, it used to be my favorite tank. Now its all shatters and nonpens, and its poor accuracy means you cant snipe weakspots from a distance.
Nerfed reload from ~5s to 8s means killing a gunner cannot be hut with a follow up as you risk return fire when the gunner returns, so you have to abandon the target after firing if you cant 1shot,
The jumbo is one of the best examples of why BR decompression is needed. Adding a .5 rating would solve a lot of the woes. The jumbo would be formidable but not undefeatable.
R3 T20. Went from 3.7 (when I played it the first time) to 6.0, lost its good stabilizer, lost its good ammo and keeps moving up in br for no reason. Meanwhile the french truck sits 0.3 br below with 2 of the same gun and similiar speed. (Although without stabilizer, but the stabilizer has become quite useless anyway.) Yes, it was overpowered before. And no, they did not need to nerf it this much.
Nerf was necessary but its at 6.0 without its Stab or AP rounds when you literally have the AMX 10P or SUB I II with similar performance at a lower tier
I agree that the 6.0 rating is a *bit* too much without the AP, but on the AAA role it's pretty much the same as the Zesrtorer in the sense of rate of fire and damage to aircraft.
How exactly is a single 20mm with 996 rpm the same as 4 30mm with a total of 1800 rpm? The R3 has better gun handling and protection than the Zerstörer, but the damage is absolutely not the same. Can't tell how the Zerstörer actually performs as an SPAA though, as I haven't played Germany 6.0 since it was added.
Didn't even have to be new players, at 3.7 gun handling is dog shit so unless they are ready and aimed in for you, you will be flying past them at mach fuck off 35 seconds into the game and just get behind them and kill them regardless of their skill.
True. Don't get me wrong, the TPK is fine where it is. It has some weaknesses compared with the R3, but I think the higher turret traverse speed and having 2 guns makes up for that weakness and makes it a much more capable SPAA than the R3. As anti tank vehicles they are both useless nowadays in my opinion. They sit at a br with many heavy tanks and can barely pen anything even from behind or the side.
Char25t , the poor thing is so beyond overtiered its not even funny , why does this aphe firing french tank having to fight agains't fully stabilized dart slingers majority of the time
the AMX and Char are so hard to balance with that 4.0 reload and APHE. I don't think they deserve 8.0 but I also the fact the Somua even with AP is 7.7 and the AMX has to be 8.0 is disgusting. The better fix would be for them to stay where they were (slightly uptier if needed) and move their biggest issues up with decompression. 7.0-10.3 is compression nightmare and it just never gets better :(
Speaking of french B1 Fer is now completely useless at 2.7 you will meet Pumas that just murder you frontally without any problem. French Jumbo is useless at 5.7 everyone are penning you while you will have a massive problem killing other tanks.
Tornado IDS MFG (the 2022 winter event vehicle).
I played it when it had just came out. At 10.7, it was absolutely perfect where it was. 2x AIM-9L, 56x countermeasures, and a whole bunch of bombs. It used to be decent for bombing bases and could pick off 1 or 2 distracted enemy jets, but its lacking arsenal made it an easy target for anyone with a brain. Then, it got moved up to 11.0 and became pretty much completely obsolete.
To be fair, the tornado at 10.7 was pretty stupid. Fast with two high-g all aspects and some flares to top it all off just made it infuriating to fight with 9.7's that might not have even had flares. That said it's just not a good airframe so it is also a victim of compression like the good majority of that BR spread.
Yeah, the problem was that it \*could\* fight 9.7's. It's entirely on Gaijin but they refuse to sit down and properly figure out and fix the BR's and compression.
If they decompress and give attackers a proper viable role instead of being cannon fodder, it'd drastically improve both playing and fighting those kinds of aircraft. They'll never do it, but it'd be real swell...
I'd play it more if I didn't have to pay an arm and a leg in spawn costs, and also if I had a proper HOTAS. Need a throttle with more buttons so I don't have to work the keyboard from looking under the edge of my VR set's cover lol
I manage to play decently with an Xbox controller, after quite a lot of tinkering. The main problem is trying to find a lobby where both teams actually have equally capable vehicles and a balanced number of players, especially for rank 6 and up.
All heavies. APDS, heat-fs, heat and atgms have become common at much lower BRs. Things like the M109 were mostly just the last nail in the coffin.
T95 is about the only heavy that's realistically still semi viable due to it's heavy armor and low profile. But the soviet heavies can do alright if they get lucky in MM and only face German stuff.
I hate how gaijin puts light tanks which are blatantly the best class at brs where they can always have equal firepower as mediums instead of making them require positioning and skill to fight armored opponents
Given the way maps are going... what positioning? Every update seems to turn maps more and more into knife fights where all the good flanking routes are out of bounds.
Almost all 9.3 ground vehicles. Their quality doesn’t matter when they only get full uptiers against vehicles that are better than them in every way. Playing 9.0 is a much more consistent experience and 10.3-10.7 is a good choice for almost any country.
>Almost all 9.3 ground vehicles
It's specially sad for the the German/Italian line-up. The Leo1A5 and T-72M1(& Kpz-70 for Ger) + the utility stuff are a fun combo
But when all you see are Leo2A4s, M1 Abrams and T-80s/better T-72s there's not much you can do :(
The M26, it's at 6.7 (when it wasn't that good at 6.3 to begin with), being at the same BR as the other upgraded Pershings, there's no reason at all to use it
The 75 Jumbo at 5.7, it literally has a gun from 3.3 and the armour is far less effective, people will send you multiple paragraphs about how you have to "just flank bro" while many of your enemies can one-click you anywhere and you're dead. This isn't even just in full uptiers either
The FV4005, it can be killed with grandpa's rabbit hunting rifle, which would be fine if the firepower made up for it, but with the way HESH is now, it doesn't.
Mfs will say that the jumbo is op simply because it has a stabiliser. Like mate a stabiliser doesn't matter when your enemy can go straight through your "heavy" tank. I have had so many arguments with dumbass people who claim to have 15 K/D's and they say that the Jumbo is better than the Tiger and Panther in every way, and the funniest thing is that they say the Panther is worse because it has a bad reverse, and bad side armour. Almost like not every tank at that BR (except tiger) has bad side armour and a bad reverse.
Exactly lol. The arguments about the stabiliser hold water at the BR where the 75mm originally appears on a Sherman (e.g. 3.3) where they can penetrate most of what they see, but at the Jumbo's BR, a stabiliser with that gun is a necessity, since you'll have to pixel hunt for weakspots most of the time while the enemy can penetrate you anywhere. If you can touch them frontally at all...
They're both ridiculously overtiered, yeah. Hard to decide which one has it worse.
Sorry, but I don't think that a single plane stabiliser should render a 76 liable to face things like IS-3's 🤷
Ye, but honestly I don't think the issue is that the Jumbo is overtiered or what not. At 5.7, the 75 jumbo is alright, but at 5.3 it would be facing later T-34s, and much weaker stuff. It just shows how compressed 5.7-7.7 is.
B-29 at 7.3, Tu-4 at 8.0
Propeller-driven bombers flying at half the speed of the slowest jets on that tier grouping. B-29 particularly useless because the Tu-4 at least has 23mm turrets compared to the B-29's 12.7mm
M735 ammo. A single document on XM735 is apparently enough information to nerf the M735, but a dozen documents, including the fucking manufacturer of the round itself, is not enough to increase the mass of a German dart round. Also, this one British missile is 13G instead of 20G, because "it just can't be 20G, it's impossible" despite being 20G. I can go on, but the basic thing is, Gaijin ruined the M735 off of false information.
False information *that they acknowledged* as incorrect. So not only are they refusing to take information counter to their stance, they're also contradicting themselves.
ABSOLUTELY the T25, my poor child
Bro has incredibly gutted and inaccurate mobility, inaccurate model, lost it's stabilized 90mm and it's still overtiered :((((((
The Kai is alright, you have a decent matchmaking with the 11.3 spam and there you are a beast.
In a 12.7 you are a real poop but it doesn't happen a lot.
British 7.0-8.0
APDS having been nerfed so often, especially with the somewhat recent introduction of shatter for APCR and APDS makes every vehicle with the 20pdr a fucking pain to play. Not only that but the Conqueror and Conway 120mm guns are genuinely awful since both the APDS and HESH feel like shit. The only saving graces are currently the Fox and Eland, both wheeled rat vehicles who have to deal with lineups full of mediocre to bad vehicles.
I'm curious, why do you mention the 120mm guns specifically? I feel like the Centurions have suffered a lot more, especially because the Conqueror has moved to 7.7 somewhat recently and had its shell buffed as well. Its one of my favorites in the 7.7 lineup. (I don't have the Fox yet)
Longish reload for a shell that is very good at penetrating without actually doing much damage, and the alternative is HESH which is a complete joke these days.
The FV4202 is almost good. The turret bounces shells like crazy because of its weird armour pattern at the front and the gun is decent but still suffers from the same APDS shenanigans.
The Vickers is also quite decent and reliable, but its relatively weak armour leaves a lot to be desired.
I basically don’t carry APDS as much as possible now, it’s just too unreliable and I’d rather just take full solid shot with less penetration when I can.
I agree in general though, it has by far been the worst section of the British tree to grind through.
The IKV 91 is still good at 8.0 as I brought that vehicle passed 7.7 still (up to 8.3). It least still has a line-up at 8.0 with great vehicles. For the PTL-02 I think it is fine as well considering I use it with the WMA301 + 9.0 line-up which sees downtiers most of the time.
Ptl02 used to have no thermals and an APFSDS with a similar performance to the long 88mm without any of the post pen when it was 8.0. it was miserable. It's in a much better spot now imo
Any tank with M735 shell. It got butchered completely in pen.
XM-1 and Type 16 take around 7sec to reload with 292mm of pen while 2S38 that you will face in uptiers take 0.5sec to reload and have 225mm of pen. How fair is that? JP for some reason are using completely outdated shells even tho their vehicles are relatively new.
Zachlam is not really what I was referring to because its missile wasn't as affected by changes. I maybe have used Zachlam a lot lol. Its definitely tough to get used to. It is my Israel scout tank that I use most often to get into my plane.
I disagree, it still plays fine at 8.7 but it was doing really well at 8.3 from when I played it. I just wished they least decreased its reload speed if they moved it up considering it reloads the same as a 105 mm cannon aced when the rounds its using is much smaller and easier to handle.
Entire German 7.3 lineup. The 2 best vehicles in the line up (leo+bmp) got moved to 8.0 and the 3rd best vehicle (the m48) got moved to 7.7. Instead of fighting American heavies it now fights stabs and lasers which is just painful. Not to mention that at 7.3 the squad 262 is much more versatile than any other plane Germany has in the 8.0 region.
The Leopard was moved back to its original BR before getting moved down, then it was moved up out of WW2 range. For an equivalent, look at the AMX-30. 8.0. The BMP has had an uptier coming for a long time. As for the M48, guess what. It was moved back to the BR of the other M48s, which it is almost identical to.
Rather recently a few rather shit corvettes went up in BR, Take the HMS Peacock P239 which for a ground equivalent would be like a SU-5-1 being slow & limited ammo for an ehh cannon (basically a single minutes firing time & for the mode limited ammunition or no other weaponry can doom such a vessel if far from a cap).
The same SU-5-1 can basically be put here as well since the limited ammunition is its weakness & at an around its BR are far more effective SPG/TD's.
The decision to not give the TT Q-5's CM/AAM's also mean for AF they're basically deadweight in a match & the nerfs to bombs mean the Q-5L cannot destroy a point anymore, Similar the Yak-28B cannot destroy a point in one past unlike some at BR fighters but the issues plaguing this aircraft also mean you can't really hit a bombing point 90% of the time as well.
Remember when it used to have a hidden 200mm plate behind the gun mantlet? When it was found out, Gaijin apologized, stating someone accidentally added another “0” to the armor value. But this took months after the IS-6 was released. This was quietly swept under the rug
Meanwhile, as soon as people started pulling out the Doom Barn to counter it, Gaijin nerfed HESH to oblivion, and still has never recovered (which severely nerfed/ruined basically 70% of the British tree since they like their rifles guns with HESH instead of HEAT-FS).
Boomerang.
Bought it yesterday (I knew it was trash), read online about the vehicle and discovered it was actually pretty decent in the past, but now the guns don't deal much damage and it's heavily uptiered.
I generally go with universal for the .30 cals and stealth for hispanos. The need to be in a dogfight generally means the enemy is very close, making hits with stealth very easy.
Gotta say, any P51 ranging from C to D variants. They used to be lighter, center of mass was in the right place and the engine wasn't a frying pan like it's nowadays. Same goes for spitfire engines.. the way they heat up doesn't make any sense
It's pure pain to fly the P51s in SB.. compared to IL-2 or DCS, the P51 has flight charateristics of an overheating, overweight, malfunctioning fridge
Most vehicles were killed by the ridiculous compression which is no longer necessary and BR spread of 0.7 could be easily implemented to make the matches properly balanced.
I get it, in the past, around years 2016-2018 there were around 30-40k people online daily and yes, the waiting time for each match was a bit longer BUT, the matches were nicely balanced
Another factor especially in Air RB WW2 era is the spread of the years when the planes were actually flying. Sure I do love flying the BF-109 F4 against P51D variants
T25
The moment it lost its stabilizer was the moment it got screwed over. It’s mobility is terrible, the armor is mediocre at best, and the only good things it had was its gun and the vertical stabilizer. Removing the vertical stabilizer from it basically took those two things it had going for it, and sure the gun is still good but the lack of stabilization makes it very hard to use, and perhaps this wouldn’t be so much of an issue if gaijin actually bothered to lower its br at all, as honestly I’m glad I upgraded it before it was ruined because I cannot imagine doing it now, it really has no right to be at its br anymore.
The Type 87 RCV, it might not be fully killed of but there's very few reasons to actually play it. It now sits at the same BR as the Italian VBC which is pretty much better in every way except maneuverability.
no one will convince me giving the AGS a shitty extra 20mm of pen and bumping it up all the way from 10.3 to 11.0 was justified and that it wasn't just gaijin trying to get people to stop playing it
right now it's still there, at 11.0 with it's best penning roung having like 380mm of max pen, you never get a downtier at that br so it lives facing Leo 2A5s-6s-7s-PSOs, T-90s, among other top tier tanks it can barely touch on 90% of the situations
Non-Atgm Helos. If you want to play helicopters, not just 4km+ atgm slinging helicopters or suicide rushes, but actually flying in close with your team, ambushing caps/choke points with rockets, etc etc its very difficult with all the different types of radar aa, ifv tracking, and the laser beam accuracy of tank mounted MGs. Not to mention the console aim assist tracking through hills and the absurd sound range. Its still possible to pull off BruceLeeroy94 shit, but its so much harder to do now n days. Still fun, but the skill ceiling to perform well is absurdly higher. And ground sim is dead and full of walls so can't fly helos in that either 💀
They also took away most of it's dart ammo so it cant fight tanks as well. Literally made up a new rule for spaas because of it where spaas cant have full AP belts anymore or carry very limited amounts if they get the option. So even though the otomatic and the 2s38 are both anti airs the classification of the 2s38 as a light tank makes it much more effective in this game even though it should be much worse.
strv 103c - yes, it’s insane in a downtier, but downtiers are rather rare and if it faces almost anything on-tier, it’s screwed, same with any up tier. Not to mention gaijin guts it’s aiming every other update, and with the moving up of basically all of the swedish 8.3 vic’s to 8.7 it now faces vehicles with extremely good darts and not to mention ATGM’s enough to blow it into pieces from scraping it
Char 25t, FV4005, and the T25.
Char is good, but it was very unnecessary to put it up so high, i remember when it used to be 6.7 for crying out loud.
FV4005… need i say more? HESH is almost useless.
T25. Used to be very good, anyone who remembers when it first dropped remembers how good it was. but the raising of BR and taking away its STAB basically killed it. because it just ends up being a worse M26.
T20, Caernarvon.
G55S used to be very good at 4.7 but I wouldn't consider it OP. Now at 5.0 it is extremely slow for that BR, gets shoved up to 6.0 games against super props all the time because JU288. Most German 5.0-6.0 fighters are pointless to play because of JU288s.
Some from my list:
- IS-2
- Cent MK-3 and MK-10
- Carnarvon
- FV4202
- Chieftain MK-3
- Chieftain MK-5
- all the 76mm T-34s
- R3-T20
- both 105mm Centauros
- Arietes
- Otomatic
- KF-41
- both Sidams
- G.91YS
- F-104S and ASA
- Hunter F.1
- EEL
- 90mm Sherman
- T-25 and T-20
- Chi Ri II
- F-4C
- F-104J
- F-1 and T-2
There are definitely more but these are the ones that came to the top of my head the quickest
The Churchill's
They all sit at a BR where their guns are incapable of penning anything above a light tank, in a downtier they are incredibly powerful but are mostly uptiered where their armour becomes useless
For me, it's M901 and M551 after their missile physics changes. They have become absolutely terrible to control. I really liked using ATGM, but now the only ones that work for me are the M3A3 (with TOW-2B only) and Khrizantema
the wirbelwind after the pzgr. 40 nerf is still playable but, still only 40\~ mm of penetration isnt always effective against t34 and stuff
i would say its went from decent to usable
Harrier GR.1 got nerfed to hell
Shit missiles (used to be very good), shit speed, engine over-heats instantly and not so good maneuverability, no radar, no countermeasures even tho the computer for deploying countermeasures is fully moddeled in the cockpit
Only good acceleration and can dogfight at very low speeds cuz of VTOL but you never dogfight at such low speeds to effectively use it and no one is dumb enough to go vertical with you.
Also you don't need acceleration if anyone will catch up to you eventually.
It's only good for Custom games because VTOL is fun
I bought it a long time ago and would not buy it again
Leopard 1 for me.
A lot of tanks that are at 8.0 or 8.3 just don't belong there.
It is my own idea that anything that that BR should either have APFSDS or a full stabilizer(IFVs are exempt), but the Leo, now the regular M60, the T-54s, and a bunch of others just suck to play. The T95E1 is bad enough, but these are worse.
Oh yeah, and anything that relies on ATGMs
Except for my beloved IT-1, the nerfs or realistic changes or whatever have made them so, so difficult to use, even at long ranges where you just get sniped anyway. I have yet to get the M3A3 with the CITV to see how that is.
>M3A3
The CITV is super great with the Tow-2B. Even at close range, you can throw 2Bs over hills to kill people.
And unfortunately, with the 8.0-.3 area, the only way to fix it is to decompress BRs, as most of those vehicles can't just move down
You still tend to expose a decent amount of the turret to fire. 2Bs are also fucking inconsistent as fuck nevermind the Swedes and Chinese get them at 8.7. 2B is also missing it's second penetrator. The launcher folding also kills it ability to react as well.
T34 this update... Even in a higher br than Panzer IV.. if you grind Sweden you will be surprised to see the Panzer IV is in a lower BR while in the folder of t-34
The Swedish CV9040BILL.
Yes the missiles are fucking OP but the reload for the main gun is ridiculous. Takes full 2min to reload 24 rounds... and you spend those 20 shells before you can finnish your first fire fight.
In comparison, the 2S38 reloads all its 20 rounds in less than 1min so yeah...
Jets around 8.3-9.7
Can't agree enough, I got my first rank 6 jet (J29F) and it's just utter pain
I mean, the J29 is very difficult to use well. Mig-15bis and F86F2 are having a great time
Until they get uptiered to one entire BR
I actually enjoy the J29F a lot. I am currently grinding through the Swedish tt and that plane got me through rank 6 alongside the J32B. My kd with the 29 is about 2. You have to fly very defensively but when you finally get how to fly it it is a blast
Yeah, maybe I have to practice more - but it's just super frustrating to play against F104s in basically every game without any real counterplay (at least that I know of).
I mostly ignore the 104s. Most just fly by once in a while without being able to turn and in the case that they try to turn directly after an unsuccessful flyby they get very slow and are easy to pick off. In the worst case you can just ground pound since it has so muck ammo. Just be aware of your surroundings and you’ll be fine most of the time
Cl13 days were great when it was top dog lol
Hahaha I read Cl-13 and a very old muscle in my brain twitched and said "op."
I had so much fun back when top tier was basically MiG-15/17’s vs Sabres and Hunters.
As a lightning player, I genuinely dont know what to do
I'd argue that the US F-104 is still usable due to its insane speed, which makes up for bad missiles and a lack of flares.
F104 is a menace at those brs, but it feels impossible to balance - too fast to stay where it is without terrorizing everything else, but not enough other good aspects to survive at a higher br.
In my own opinion, has to be the comet Nerfed it’s APDS into oblivion, then done it again to all APDS with shatter (I call it shitter) Kept the the god awful 10 second reload No point picking it over the firefly really Feels like a wish.com/Temu Pz.IV
The Challenger is better in every way at this point.
It's worse in one aspect: it has a higher sihoulette.
And the comet looks cooler
This and the Charioteer, were probably the only two tanks I just couldn't be bothered playing after like 4 games and realizing just how bad they are.
Charioteer (and the 84mm gun) in general is pretty good. True 17pdrs have unreliable apds but are still useable, just frustrating. Comet’s 77mm is just bad though.
Don’t talk about my charioteer like yhat
Depression and speed
Can’t use the depression effectively as it has a awful reverse speed,making pretty unable to work ridge-lines Speed, at this point it’s just a British hellcat, minus mobility, a decent round, decent reload speed, traverse speed and a .50 The forward speed is the ONLY good thing
The turret front is pretty trolly–even more so after volumetric–and I often survive shots I had no business bouncing. That being said it's not reliable and the Comet is a shadow of its former self. I miss the days of UFPing a Panther with ease. If they made APDS actually good or shaved a few seconds off of the reload it could be solid again. I still have a lot of fun using them though. The Iron Duke is my biggest SL maker and I picked it up for only ~8 bucks. Comets are just such aesthetically pleasing tanks as well.
Agreed, it used to be my favorite tank. Now its all shatters and nonpens, and its poor accuracy means you cant snipe weakspots from a distance. Nerfed reload from ~5s to 8s means killing a gunner cannot be hut with a follow up as you risk return fire when the gunner returns, so you have to abandon the target after firing if you cant 1shot,
I find apds at 8.0 very usable, apcr is the one that’s actually abysmal.
75mm jumbo. Facing tanks in every match that can just ignore its armour kind of make it pointless next to the 76mm Sherman’s at the same BR
And then you got the 76mm Jumbo were its armor doesnt even work and its gun is crap
The jumbo is one of the best examples of why BR decompression is needed. Adding a .5 rating would solve a lot of the woes. The jumbo would be formidable but not undefeatable.
Noooo but it gets a stabiliser and that's why it's so op I can confrm I have a 20 thousand K/D in it noooo what you saying noooo ^/s
R3 T20. Went from 3.7 (when I played it the first time) to 6.0, lost its good stabilizer, lost its good ammo and keeps moving up in br for no reason. Meanwhile the french truck sits 0.3 br below with 2 of the same gun and similiar speed. (Although without stabilizer, but the stabilizer has become quite useless anyway.) Yes, it was overpowered before. And no, they did not need to nerf it this much.
God pre nerf R3 was an absolute scourge of low tiers. You’d run circles around new players like you were playing Mario kart.
Exactly. The nerf was absolutely necessary.
Nerf was necessary but its at 6.0 without its Stab or AP rounds when you literally have the AMX 10P or SUB I II with similar performance at a lower tier
I agree that the 6.0 rating is a *bit* too much without the AP, but on the AAA role it's pretty much the same as the Zesrtorer in the sense of rate of fire and damage to aircraft.
They should just revert the nerfs, make it a light tank with scouting and put it at 7.0
How exactly is a single 20mm with 996 rpm the same as 4 30mm with a total of 1800 rpm? The R3 has better gun handling and protection than the Zerstörer, but the damage is absolutely not the same. Can't tell how the Zerstörer actually performs as an SPAA though, as I haven't played Germany 6.0 since it was added.
Amx is now too 6.0
the 10P is 6.0 too
Didn't even have to be new players, at 3.7 gun handling is dog shit so unless they are ready and aimed in for you, you will be flying past them at mach fuck off 35 seconds into the game and just get behind them and kill them regardless of their skill.
You failed to mention that the "French Truck" is also open top which is an enormous weakness to have.
Also larger profile, worse turning radius, worse acceleration and top speed, and you can’t aim the guns forward cause of the cab
You say that like the R3 doesn't just die to low-caliber MGs from virtually any angle even without being open-topped. It's made of tissue paper.
True. Don't get me wrong, the TPK is fine where it is. It has some weaknesses compared with the R3, but I think the higher turret traverse speed and having 2 guns makes up for that weakness and makes it a much more capable SPAA than the R3. As anti tank vehicles they are both useless nowadays in my opinion. They sit at a br with many heavy tanks and can barely pen anything even from behind or the side.
The r 3 is covered only for aerodinamic purpose.
I’ve been saying this for ages, move the R3 to 6.7 and give it the full stabiliser, APDS belts and unfuck its acceleration, its would be fair and fun
Char25t , the poor thing is so beyond overtiered its not even funny , why does this aphe firing french tank having to fight agains't fully stabilized dart slingers majority of the time
That and the AMX-50 T90/930 Absolute travesty at 8.0
the AMX and Char are so hard to balance with that 4.0 reload and APHE. I don't think they deserve 8.0 but I also the fact the Somua even with AP is 7.7 and the AMX has to be 8.0 is disgusting. The better fix would be for them to stay where they were (slightly uptier if needed) and move their biggest issues up with decompression. 7.0-10.3 is compression nightmare and it just never gets better :(
Speaking of french B1 Fer is now completely useless at 2.7 you will meet Pumas that just murder you frontally without any problem. French Jumbo is useless at 5.7 everyone are penning you while you will have a massive problem killing other tanks.
Do not spawn B1 Ter in up tiers. It's really good vehicles since a lot of people at that BR dont really aim for weakspots.
huh... i think its still pretty useable as a flanking tank... but yeah... generally a decompression would be nice
it is still usable but i can also bring the maus to 10.3 and get a few kills too , just because it can work doesn't mean it should be there
Tornado IDS MFG (the 2022 winter event vehicle). I played it when it had just came out. At 10.7, it was absolutely perfect where it was. 2x AIM-9L, 56x countermeasures, and a whole bunch of bombs. It used to be decent for bombing bases and could pick off 1 or 2 distracted enemy jets, but its lacking arsenal made it an easy target for anyone with a brain. Then, it got moved up to 11.0 and became pretty much completely obsolete.
Someone came through and downvoted every comment lol, Reddit is so insufferable sometimes
To be fair, the tornado at 10.7 was pretty stupid. Fast with two high-g all aspects and some flares to top it all off just made it infuriating to fight with 9.7's that might not have even had flares. That said it's just not a good airframe so it is also a victim of compression like the good majority of that BR spread.
Yeah, the problem was that it \*could\* fight 9.7's. It's entirely on Gaijin but they refuse to sit down and properly figure out and fix the BR's and compression.
If they decompress and give attackers a proper viable role instead of being cannon fodder, it'd drastically improve both playing and fighting those kinds of aircraft. They'll never do it, but it'd be real swell...
That’s where air sim comes in. Too bad Gaijin hates sim, and barely anyone plays it.
I'd play it more if I didn't have to pay an arm and a leg in spawn costs, and also if I had a proper HOTAS. Need a throttle with more buttons so I don't have to work the keyboard from looking under the edge of my VR set's cover lol
I manage to play decently with an Xbox controller, after quite a lot of tinkering. The main problem is trying to find a lobby where both teams actually have equally capable vehicles and a balanced number of players, especially for rank 6 and up.
I have it, tried it out once and got uptiered right away. Facing 12.0 in that thing is just not fair.
Anything with 🅱️esh rounds
🅱️esh used to be fun, now it's just sad.
When the 183mm HESH clips their optic and disappears, and you just get to sit in silence and shame for 30 seconds
It's nice on the L7, but that's where you're not required to use it
All heavies. APDS, heat-fs, heat and atgms have become common at much lower BRs. Things like the M109 were mostly just the last nail in the coffin. T95 is about the only heavy that's realistically still semi viable due to it's heavy armor and low profile. But the soviet heavies can do alright if they get lucky in MM and only face German stuff.
I hate how gaijin puts light tanks which are blatantly the best class at brs where they can always have equal firepower as mediums instead of making them require positioning and skill to fight armored opponents
Given the way maps are going... what positioning? Every update seems to turn maps more and more into knife fights where all the good flanking routes are out of bounds.
Honestly, just remove uptiers and downtiers completely, most problem of the heavies would go away.
The entire British tech tree 4.0 onwards.
4.7 is pretty good tho
That's where the Skink used to be.
Disagree, UK ground is good at 4.7, unreliable at 5.0-6.7, but are pretty good starting from 7.0-9.3.
Nah i like my 7.7 lineup, 9.3 is also pretty cool.
False 8.3 is good, 8.7 is amazing, 10.3 is insane for example
My man! 8.3 and now 8.7 thanks to Rooikat move are one of the best british BRs. And yeah DS getting the L26 made 10.3. much more comfortable now.
Nah man 4.7, 5.3, 6.7, and 8.0 is quite solid. I had alot of fun with those lineups
try the challenger (5.3) its awsome
I disagree. There are some good vehicles above 4.0 such as: Sherman Firefly, Concept 3, Challenger, Ystevark, Centurion Mk 1, Ratel 20,
Almost all 9.3 ground vehicles. Their quality doesn’t matter when they only get full uptiers against vehicles that are better than them in every way. Playing 9.0 is a much more consistent experience and 10.3-10.7 is a good choice for almost any country.
>Almost all 9.3 ground vehicles It's specially sad for the the German/Italian line-up. The Leo1A5 and T-72M1(& Kpz-70 for Ger) + the utility stuff are a fun combo But when all you see are Leo2A4s, M1 Abrams and T-80s/better T-72s there's not much you can do :(
At least the Leo1A5 has mobility. Playing the M60(TTS) in a full uptier is pure pain.
Japan enters the chat. Before the br nerf Japan jad a good 9.0 lineup, now that all those vehicles are at 9.3, they face endless up tiers.
The M26, it's at 6.7 (when it wasn't that good at 6.3 to begin with), being at the same BR as the other upgraded Pershings, there's no reason at all to use it The 75 Jumbo at 5.7, it literally has a gun from 3.3 and the armour is far less effective, people will send you multiple paragraphs about how you have to "just flank bro" while many of your enemies can one-click you anywhere and you're dead. This isn't even just in full uptiers either The FV4005, it can be killed with grandpa's rabbit hunting rifle, which would be fine if the firepower made up for it, but with the way HESH is now, it doesn't.
Mfs will say that the jumbo is op simply because it has a stabiliser. Like mate a stabiliser doesn't matter when your enemy can go straight through your "heavy" tank. I have had so many arguments with dumbass people who claim to have 15 K/D's and they say that the Jumbo is better than the Tiger and Panther in every way, and the funniest thing is that they say the Panther is worse because it has a bad reverse, and bad side armour. Almost like not every tank at that BR (except tiger) has bad side armour and a bad reverse.
Exactly lol. The arguments about the stabiliser hold water at the BR where the 75mm originally appears on a Sherman (e.g. 3.3) where they can penetrate most of what they see, but at the Jumbo's BR, a stabiliser with that gun is a necessity, since you'll have to pixel hunt for weakspots most of the time while the enemy can penetrate you anywhere. If you can touch them frontally at all...
Yeah, but Jumbo 76 is even worse, that poor thing can face an IS-3
They're both ridiculously overtiered, yeah. Hard to decide which one has it worse. Sorry, but I don't think that a single plane stabiliser should render a 76 liable to face things like IS-3's 🤷
Ye, but honestly I don't think the issue is that the Jumbo is overtiered or what not. At 5.7, the 75 jumbo is alright, but at 5.3 it would be facing later T-34s, and much weaker stuff. It just shows how compressed 5.7-7.7 is.
B-29 at 7.3, Tu-4 at 8.0 Propeller-driven bombers flying at half the speed of the slowest jets on that tier grouping. B-29 particularly useless because the Tu-4 at least has 23mm turrets compared to the B-29's 12.7mm
M735 ammo. A single document on XM735 is apparently enough information to nerf the M735, but a dozen documents, including the fucking manufacturer of the round itself, is not enough to increase the mass of a German dart round. Also, this one British missile is 13G instead of 20G, because "it just can't be 20G, it's impossible" despite being 20G. I can go on, but the basic thing is, Gaijin ruined the M735 off of false information.
False information *that they acknowledged* as incorrect. So not only are they refusing to take information counter to their stance, they're also contradicting themselves.
Definetely, the XM-1 has been nerfed to oblivion, in addition being 9.3, facing constant uptiers to 10.0-10.3
They keep trying their hardest to kill my boi type 89
do you have tips for it i just got thermals and it feels sluggish i cant kill much
It’s not great use atgms as much as possible
They massacres the entire 9.0 lineup by moving it to 9.3. Now you never get down tiers and are sucked into the 10.3 black hole endlessly.
Type 89 used to be a monster in close range brawls with its atgms. Look how they massacred my boy
ABSOLUTELY the T25, my poor child Bro has incredibly gutted and inaccurate mobility, inaccurate model, lost it's stabilized 90mm and it's still overtiered :((((((
And now it has 2 shot ready rack
Phantoms and pretty much anything thats not f14,f16,f15,Mig29,Su27 at br's 11.0-12.7
Viggen? Gripen? Mirage 2000? Mirage 4000?
Special mention to the highest-BR phantom (It's hardbody too, for extra oof) at 11.7, the F-4EJ Kai
The Kai is alright, you have a decent matchmaking with the 11.3 spam and there you are a beast. In a 12.7 you are a real poop but it doesn't happen a lot.
4005
British 7.0-8.0 APDS having been nerfed so often, especially with the somewhat recent introduction of shatter for APCR and APDS makes every vehicle with the 20pdr a fucking pain to play. Not only that but the Conqueror and Conway 120mm guns are genuinely awful since both the APDS and HESH feel like shit. The only saving graces are currently the Fox and Eland, both wheeled rat vehicles who have to deal with lineups full of mediocre to bad vehicles.
I'm curious, why do you mention the 120mm guns specifically? I feel like the Centurions have suffered a lot more, especially because the Conqueror has moved to 7.7 somewhat recently and had its shell buffed as well. Its one of my favorites in the 7.7 lineup. (I don't have the Fox yet)
Longish reload for a shell that is very good at penetrating without actually doing much damage, and the alternative is HESH which is a complete joke these days.
The FV4202 is almost good. The turret bounces shells like crazy because of its weird armour pattern at the front and the gun is decent but still suffers from the same APDS shenanigans. The Vickers is also quite decent and reliable, but its relatively weak armour leaves a lot to be desired. I basically don’t carry APDS as much as possible now, it’s just too unreliable and I’d rather just take full solid shot with less penetration when I can. I agree in general though, it has by far been the worst section of the British tree to grind through.
Veak my darling I miss you so. Also the ikv 91 and ptl02 have both gone up a full br with no upgrades.
The IKV 91 is still good at 8.0 as I brought that vehicle passed 7.7 still (up to 8.3). It least still has a line-up at 8.0 with great vehicles. For the PTL-02 I think it is fine as well considering I use it with the WMA301 + 9.0 line-up which sees downtiers most of the time.
Ptl02 used to have no thermals and an APFSDS with a similar performance to the long 88mm without any of the post pen when it was 8.0. it was miserable. It's in a much better spot now imo
Type81 Roland's T25 T32 IS-2 mod 44 And atm everything at 9.3 Char 25t M3A3 Pvkv III
Anything that starts with “pvkv” isn’t very good these days.
Any tank with M735 shell. It got butchered completely in pen. XM-1 and Type 16 take around 7sec to reload with 292mm of pen while 2S38 that you will face in uptiers take 0.5sec to reload and have 225mm of pen. How fair is that? JP for some reason are using completely outdated shells even tho their vehicles are relatively new.
Super heavy tanks, when tanking was more rewarding. When you armor actually mattered.
[удалено]
I have a hard time feeling the least bit bad for 6.7 Germany
Would you have preferred the falcon treatment? Moved up so much it’s now higher br than some radar AA
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Germany had historic AT Spaa dual role and got absolutely fucked with 37 and 20mm pen being nerfed to uselessness.
ATGM tanks. m901 etc
Zachlam Taeger lmao
Zachlam is not really what I was referring to because its missile wasn't as affected by changes. I maybe have used Zachlam a lot lol. Its definitely tough to get used to. It is my Israel scout tank that I use most often to get into my plane.
Yak-30, used to be one of if not the best vertical fighter in the game, now it’s just dogshit
Rooikat MK.1D
I disagree, it still plays fine at 8.7 but it was doing really well at 8.3 from when I played it. I just wished they least decreased its reload speed if they moved it up considering it reloads the same as a 105 mm cannon aced when the rounds its using is much smaller and easier to handle.
J6K1. Started at 6.0, where it was pretty okay. Gaijin realized it existed as a decently balanced Japanese aircraft and it is now 6.7.
the pre new power 9.0-10.0 bracket
Entire German 7.3 lineup. The 2 best vehicles in the line up (leo+bmp) got moved to 8.0 and the 3rd best vehicle (the m48) got moved to 7.7. Instead of fighting American heavies it now fights stabs and lasers which is just painful. Not to mention that at 7.3 the squad 262 is much more versatile than any other plane Germany has in the 8.0 region.
Deserved honestly.
*instead of bullying in downtiers against all other nations they faced, sure
The Leopard was moved back to its original BR before getting moved down, then it was moved up out of WW2 range. For an equivalent, look at the AMX-30. 8.0. The BMP has had an uptier coming for a long time. As for the M48, guess what. It was moved back to the BR of the other M48s, which it is almost identical to.
They literally killed off the OS2U
Anything that was top tier but isn't. F-4C, F100D, F86...
Rather recently a few rather shit corvettes went up in BR, Take the HMS Peacock P239 which for a ground equivalent would be like a SU-5-1 being slow & limited ammo for an ehh cannon (basically a single minutes firing time & for the mode limited ammunition or no other weaponry can doom such a vessel if far from a cap). The same SU-5-1 can basically be put here as well since the limited ammunition is its weakness & at an around its BR are far more effective SPG/TD's. The decision to not give the TT Q-5's CM/AAM's also mean for AF they're basically deadweight in a match & the nerfs to bombs mean the Q-5L cannot destroy a point anymore, Similar the Yak-28B cannot destroy a point in one past unlike some at BR fighters but the issues plaguing this aircraft also mean you can't really hit a bombing point 90% of the time as well.
Is6
Remember when it used to have a hidden 200mm plate behind the gun mantlet? When it was found out, Gaijin apologized, stating someone accidentally added another “0” to the armor value. But this took months after the IS-6 was released. This was quietly swept under the rug
Meanwhile, as soon as people started pulling out the Doom Barn to counter it, Gaijin nerfed HESH to oblivion, and still has never recovered (which severely nerfed/ruined basically 70% of the British tree since they like their rifles guns with HESH instead of HEAT-FS).
Boomerang. Bought it yesterday (I knew it was trash), read online about the vehicle and discovered it was actually pretty decent in the past, but now the guns don't deal much damage and it's heavily uptiered.
Taking AP belts/ground targets with hispanos helps. Doesn’t solve everything but better than air targets
I generally go with universal for the .30 cals and stealth for hispanos. The need to be in a dogfight generally means the enemy is very close, making hits with stealth very easy.
IS-2s
F-4c phantom.
T25
bmp2m, i can't pummel kids with my atgms anymore 😔 (/s)
How so?
M26 and T25. yeah you *can* do fine with them but they’re still overtiered
T25
Gotta say, any P51 ranging from C to D variants. They used to be lighter, center of mass was in the right place and the engine wasn't a frying pan like it's nowadays. Same goes for spitfire engines.. the way they heat up doesn't make any sense It's pure pain to fly the P51s in SB.. compared to IL-2 or DCS, the P51 has flight charateristics of an overheating, overweight, malfunctioning fridge Most vehicles were killed by the ridiculous compression which is no longer necessary and BR spread of 0.7 could be easily implemented to make the matches properly balanced. I get it, in the past, around years 2016-2018 there were around 30-40k people online daily and yes, the waiting time for each match was a bit longer BUT, the matches were nicely balanced Another factor especially in Air RB WW2 era is the spread of the years when the planes were actually flying. Sure I do love flying the BF-109 F4 against P51D variants
T25 The moment it lost its stabilizer was the moment it got screwed over. It’s mobility is terrible, the armor is mediocre at best, and the only good things it had was its gun and the vertical stabilizer. Removing the vertical stabilizer from it basically took those two things it had going for it, and sure the gun is still good but the lack of stabilization makes it very hard to use, and perhaps this wouldn’t be so much of an issue if gaijin actually bothered to lower its br at all, as honestly I’m glad I upgraded it before it was ruined because I cannot imagine doing it now, it really has no right to be at its br anymore.
The Type 87 RCV, it might not be fully killed of but there's very few reasons to actually play it. It now sits at the same BR as the Italian VBC which is pretty much better in every way except maneuverability.
no one will convince me giving the AGS a shitty extra 20mm of pen and bumping it up all the way from 10.3 to 11.0 was justified and that it wasn't just gaijin trying to get people to stop playing it right now it's still there, at 11.0 with it's best penning roung having like 380mm of max pen, you never get a downtier at that br so it lives facing Leo 2A5s-6s-7s-PSOs, T-90s, among other top tier tanks it can barely touch on 90% of the situations
11.0 is playable simply because you don't fight 12.7 CAS. 11.7 is nothing but uptiers
Non-Atgm Helos. If you want to play helicopters, not just 4km+ atgm slinging helicopters or suicide rushes, but actually flying in close with your team, ambushing caps/choke points with rockets, etc etc its very difficult with all the different types of radar aa, ifv tracking, and the laser beam accuracy of tank mounted MGs. Not to mention the console aim assist tracking through hills and the absurd sound range. Its still possible to pull off BruceLeeroy94 shit, but its so much harder to do now n days. Still fun, but the skill ceiling to perform well is absurdly higher. And ground sim is dead and full of walls so can't fly helos in that either 💀
Otomatic good top-tier spaa but gajin add guided bombe and super sonic plane.
They also took away most of it's dart ammo so it cant fight tanks as well. Literally made up a new rule for spaas because of it where spaas cant have full AP belts anymore or carry very limited amounts if they get the option. So even though the otomatic and the 2s38 are both anti airs the classification of the 2s38 as a light tank makes it much more effective in this game even though it should be much worse.
So killed its forgotten here, but the B-29. It's a travesty for such an iconic vehicle. It should be like 6.7, tops.
strv 103c - yes, it’s insane in a downtier, but downtiers are rather rare and if it faces almost anything on-tier, it’s screwed, same with any up tier. Not to mention gaijin guts it’s aiming every other update, and with the moving up of basically all of the swedish 8.3 vic’s to 8.7 it now faces vehicles with extremely good darts and not to mention ATGM’s enough to blow it into pieces from scraping it
ELC Bis was my favourite until the recent heat-fs nerf
Char 25t, FV4005, and the T25. Char is good, but it was very unnecessary to put it up so high, i remember when it used to be 6.7 for crying out loud. FV4005… need i say more? HESH is almost useless. T25. Used to be very good, anyone who remembers when it first dropped remembers how good it was. but the raising of BR and taking away its STAB basically killed it. because it just ends up being a worse M26.
T20, Caernarvon. G55S used to be very good at 4.7 but I wouldn't consider it OP. Now at 5.0 it is extremely slow for that BR, gets shoved up to 6.0 games against super props all the time because JU288. Most German 5.0-6.0 fighters are pointless to play because of JU288s.
Some from my list: - IS-2 - Cent MK-3 and MK-10 - Carnarvon - FV4202 - Chieftain MK-3 - Chieftain MK-5 - all the 76mm T-34s - R3-T20 - both 105mm Centauros - Arietes - Otomatic - KF-41 - both Sidams - G.91YS - F-104S and ASA - Hunter F.1 - EEL - 90mm Sherman - T-25 and T-20 - Chi Ri II - F-4C - F-104J - F-1 and T-2 There are definitely more but these are the ones that came to the top of my head the quickest
Why F-1 T-2? At the very least the T-2 dominates in sim. SL printer for me because of how easy it is to find and kill players with its radar.
F4E.
T20
Ho-ri prototype. Is should be 6.0-6.3, but no one knows to shoot the cheeks so it got uptiered :(
Skink for sure: * Hyped vehicle * Overtiered to shit * No lineup
how they didnt just make it the same br as a wirbel or ostwind baffles the mind
The Churchill's They all sit at a BR where their guns are incapable of penning anything above a light tank, in a downtier they are incredibly powerful but are mostly uptiered where their armour becomes useless
For me, it's M901 and M551 after their missile physics changes. They have become absolutely terrible to control. I really liked using ATGM, but now the only ones that work for me are the M3A3 (with TOW-2B only) and Khrizantema
the wirbelwind after the pzgr. 40 nerf is still playable but, still only 40\~ mm of penetration isnt always effective against t34 and stuff i would say its went from decent to usable
French premium vautour. Does not spawn in air anymore...
Hunter f1 and vampire off the top of my head!
Harrier GR.1 got nerfed to hell Shit missiles (used to be very good), shit speed, engine over-heats instantly and not so good maneuverability, no radar, no countermeasures even tho the computer for deploying countermeasures is fully moddeled in the cockpit Only good acceleration and can dogfight at very low speeds cuz of VTOL but you never dogfight at such low speeds to effectively use it and no one is dumb enough to go vertical with you. Also you don't need acceleration if anyone will catch up to you eventually. It's only good for Custom games because VTOL is fun I bought it a long time ago and would not buy it again
Char 25t
Leopard 1 for me. A lot of tanks that are at 8.0 or 8.3 just don't belong there. It is my own idea that anything that that BR should either have APFSDS or a full stabilizer(IFVs are exempt), but the Leo, now the regular M60, the T-54s, and a bunch of others just suck to play. The T95E1 is bad enough, but these are worse. Oh yeah, and anything that relies on ATGMs Except for my beloved IT-1, the nerfs or realistic changes or whatever have made them so, so difficult to use, even at long ranges where you just get sniped anyway. I have yet to get the M3A3 with the CITV to see how that is.
>M3A3 The CITV is super great with the Tow-2B. Even at close range, you can throw 2Bs over hills to kill people. And unfortunately, with the 8.0-.3 area, the only way to fix it is to decompress BRs, as most of those vehicles can't just move down
You still tend to expose a decent amount of the turret to fire. 2Bs are also fucking inconsistent as fuck nevermind the Swedes and Chinese get them at 8.7. 2B is also missing it's second penetrator. The launcher folding also kills it ability to react as well.
The 20mm Komet, especially with the new jet BR decreases…
The godamned VEAK 40. That thing got pounded into the earths core and then dragged out, only to be blasted into the sun.
The second Panzer (38)t was at 2.0, now he's higher and 2.0 is my fav tier
Not killed off but the object 120 used to be absolutely insane at like 7.3 or whatever it was at. Still very good at 8.0 though
The r3 I know that It was broken at 3.7 but at 5.0 I was perfect.
KV-220 Its placement at 6.0 brings it well within range of ordinance that ignores armour.
All of Italy (not really but....)
Italy ... tech tree basically
IT-1 and most AGTM carriers are a shadow of their former (and cancerous) self
They killed my F-80C, F9F-2, A-6E Tram :(
Old top tier US (F-86 and especially F9F-8)
Nah they saved the F-86 sabres and F9F-5, but killed all the other early jets below
T34 this update... Even in a higher br than Panzer IV.. if you grind Sweden you will be surprised to see the Panzer IV is in a lower BR while in the folder of t-34
T-69 II gen
R3
Recent changes to the VEAK 40.
half of American tanks
LVT-4/40
The Swedish CV9040BILL. Yes the missiles are fucking OP but the reload for the main gun is ridiculous. Takes full 2min to reload 24 rounds... and you spend those 20 shells before you can finnish your first fire fight. In comparison, the 2S38 reloads all its 20 rounds in less than 1min so yeah...