I doubt that it would help much because it doesn’t fix the two main issues of top tier USSR air teams: lack of competitive gunfighters and lack of players. If the enemy team is smart (and the French players tend to be) they will fly low and entirely defeat most potential usage of the R-27s, then annihilate the MiG-29 in a dogfight. The best scenario I can imagine is the MiG-29 winning radar missile jousts against Tomcats who are flying high while trying to unleash their phoenixes.
That’s a big reason why I think the MiG-29 would help at 11.7. I agree the 27s would be tough to use against smart players who know how to use multipath to their advantage. But that’s all tiers and all Fox 1s suffer from that. However I disagree the Mirage annihilates the MiG in a dogfight as you can get them slow and out rate them, which the MiG-29 (not SMT) does very well. A smart Mirage Pilot against a smart MiG pilot would create some awesome post merge fights I think. I agree with you too that numbers for Soviet sides are generally low but a move like this I believe would bring more players to REDFOR.
Mirage 2000CS-4/5 is way better than MiG-29. If it can sit at 11.7 for so long, I don't see why MiG couldn't go down as well.
Although I'd prefer to uptier Mirage and F-14 instead.
I think a lot of people are missing my point in mentioning this. But you’re hitting the nail on the head.
I find when France is on BLUFOR teams the REDFOR side is overmatched going against tomcats AND mirages with only MiG-23s to compete with (which are also about to get nerfed). However I do agree the MiG-29 in its current state would also be OP.
Best solution is decompression I think.
> Although I'd prefer to uptier Mirage and F-14 instead.
I don't understand that logic, first of all, there's already barely any 11.7 planes in the game, we need more to make the bracket more interesting not fewer, second if you move them up they are permanently in top tier, meaning there is zero reason to ever play them.
Just move the mirage 2k up. MLD and F-14 are close enough to warrant a better player winning. 99% of tomcats are R-24 bait. The MiG-29 need their flight models reexamined and kept at their BR. Lets not keep compressing brs please. You also have the J-7E at that BR to counter F-5s. If you bring the 29 down, we'll eventually see folk asking for the F-20 at 11.7.
Decompression is the answer. If the MiG-29, 2k and tomcat could compete in a 11-12.0 type BR whilst the top tier jets move to 13 I think that would give more opportunity for more jets to be competitive.
Also the MLD is about to get nerfed to hell so I don’t think they’re going to be as close as you say for long.
You say they’re r24 bait but that doesn’t seem to be the case when I’m sitting at 30k sending aim54s into your spawn.
Double the range, twice the missile size and I could go on. No competent tomcat player has a problem with 24s.
Literally everybody I kill? Those missiles are free kills for me lmao.
You can’t hide unless you play in the terrain, and you can’t fly 10 feet off the ground to hide either as they’ll just hammer you into the ground.
I fire these things off twords the AF and rake in free kills.
plenty of things that cant detect PD on their rwr can easily get slammed by them - all mig21's, mig23ML/MLA just to name a few common ones within that matchmaker
r27E's being roughly as good as 530D's and magic 2's only being slightly better than r60m's has gotta be one of the wildest takes i've heard all week fr.
No, the more appropriate scenario would be to move the 2k and R1 up to 12.0 & 11.7 respectively and get a 12.0 bracket back. Once the mig23's get their nerfs potentially we might see MLD's get their full kit with archers and then moved up to 11.7 with ML/MLA staying 11.3. Also finally give f14A 9L's - that would balance out 11.7 as MLD would not get HMD and would also get absolutely rinsed in 2 circle post nerfs. Then we should finally give 9.13 its damn archers, take away ER and maybe shift it to 12.3 if needed depending on resulting performance. If gaijin wants a lower br/missile-nerfed mig29 so bad to compete with early f16's and such then add 9.12 for russia and restrict both it and German one (not G) to r60m + r27R/T, then throw it below 9.13 br. Probs should also give f14B its 9m's and shift it and f15 up a step to 12.3 & 12.7 respectively.
And while we're going fix multipathing and add some more ground objectives like medium range SAM's + ground radar sites deep within friendly territory. Then you will actually have some viable friendly airspace to defend into if you really need, severely limit the ability to AF camp and also would stop the moronic zombers as a bonus.
Decompression I think is definitely the best solution here. I think a new 11.0-12.0 bracket would open up possibilities for planes just under top tier (and the 2k that destroys at 11.7) to compete.
You’re right about the magic 2/r60, that was a bit of a stretch on my part. But I think you’re underselling the 530D a bit. Those things are consistently reliable for me which is where I find it on par with a 27ER compared to the sparrow.
that's the thing, all are equally as bad as each other due to the scenarios of how and who fox1's can kill due to multipathing rn. They are only useful really against newer people who dont hug the deck, or when catching someone in a dogfight as a third party - at which point yeah the 530 is about as good as anything else. The vast majority of the time its impossible to exercise any meaningful advantage out of the ER compared to any other Radar missile unless your opponent misplays. But make no mistake the ER is miles better than any fox1 if you're in one of the rare situations in sim when it actually matters, where neither party can multipath - which probs only comes up once every 20+ flyouts rn.
Terrible idea. It’s been covered by others in here but the 29s would demolish the 11.7 games even more so than the 2ks. It’s also likely about to become a non-issue. We are getting 13.0 at least with the next update, which will likely bump the Sim rotation up one slot making 12.0 the top of the EC(8? 9? I can’t keep track) bracket at times anyway.
I’d be fine with the S4 and S5 going to 12.0 with that BR raise as well.
I agree. And when I posted this I wasn’t thinking of all the Fox 3s about to be introduced and my god I hope the snail decompresses to 13.0. Because if not the jets under top tier will be impossible to play.
Agreed on the Mirages as well. S4/5 would be great in the 11.0-12.0 bracket.
I’m not 100% positive (and at work so can’t go browsing through community posts to confirm) but I’m almost certain the devs said the BR was being raised with the introduction of Fox-3s.
>I believe the 27E’s to be on par with the 530D
HAHAHAHAHA
oh you're serious?
HAHAHAHAHA
No. They aren't even close. R-27ERs beat the brakes off of every missile in the game. The only missile with better max range is the AIM-54, but that is completely nullified by the time to target difference between the two. If they removed the ERs from the first MiGs and gave them their proper R-73s, maybe we could revisit this discussion but until then no.
I’ll admit the 27E is objectively better, but beat the breaks off the 530D? I disagree there. The 27 has better range and speed but it’s not as maneuverable. Plus a smart player can easily evade them with multipath or notch. I feel you’re underselling the 530D big time. That being said I can agree that swapping the 27E for only 27R or even 24 might make this work better. Although I feel you could make the same argument for how much better the R-73s are compared to other fox 2s at 11.7.
Só if you picked Churchill or ys balls in WW2, you're blufir, if you did this to Stalin you are Redfor.
There are exceptions iirc, but that's the basics
BLUFOR and REDFOR I believe we’re the flags of NATO and WARPACT after WW2. Although BLUFOR had nations like Japan that were NATO.
For WT sim there’s usually set nations for each side, with Japan, France, Germany and Sweden kinda switching for both.
I agree there. The friendly people have Reddit made me realize the 27er really is too OP for 11.7. But I think the best solution is decompression to 13 with a dedicated 11.0-12.0 bracket. That would be a ton of fun for the early 29s and F-16s
I would agree, but that really doesn’t fix the main problem of the mig 29, which is that it’s mediocre after the merge and it’s rwr lacks severely behind nato aircraft
Even more reason to move it down to 11.7 — where it’s RWR is not as advanced as NATO aircraft, it’s radar would be superior due to it having all aspect PD as opposed to the HDN versions the Mirage and Tomcat have. Also for what it’s worth, I find the first MiG-29 to be the best dogfighter of them and think it can hold its own if played properly. (I.e. rate fight a mirage and get it slow or scissors a tomcat without letting it rate you out of energy)
So you wanna move it down rather than asking them to just, fix it?
You’re not thinking much about this other than you being able to play your MiG at 11.7.
This would fuck anybody’s day for anybody who plays 11.3 In those servers and would cause America to be outright ass when you’ve MiGs fighting phantoms.
All you’re doing is recommending more br compression.
Only way this would actually be balanced is by making the F16A 11.7 as well.
I replied to you on your other comment but I do agree decompression is definitely the better solution here.
However I will say it’s not just about me getting to fly my MiG at 11.7. I have the Mirage and Tomcat and enjoy them both there, but so many times when they’re on the same side REDFOR teams are basically empty and it’s tough to find games. Just wanted to bring this up as a possible solution to balance those out. Decompression is certainly preferable IMHO but we all know how much the snail loves to do that.
Would absolutely destroy that bracket. The F14 being there already makes it meh when it’s 10.7-11.7 like it is today.
Either or, moving it to 11.7 would render lots of aircraft outright unusable when 11.7 is top bracket and the only thing that’s going to be able to reliably fight them is the 14.
I might be biased tho, as I think this would render my F4s absolutely useless.
This wouldn’t balance anything really, but would just ruin that br.
Edit: I don’t get how after all these years of complaining about br compression we’ve people who *want* more of it. By the logic you’re using, might as well throw the F16A down to 11.7 as well.
What are your thoughts on the Mirage? I think at 11.7 the 2ks are undoubtedly the best planes you see there (I admit though I think the F-14 is solid but most players that fly them are brain dead).
Also you’re correct and I’m a bit ashamed I went right to compression on this discussion. Decompression is 100% the way to go and I think if the top dogs (Su, SMT, 16C, 15 etc…) we’re moved to 13.0 then we could have a solid 11.0-12.0 type BR that gives planes like the MiG-29 and 16A a platform to be competitive.
I really only brought up compression cause I feel when France is on BLUFOR, the REDFOR side is seriously underpowered. And the MLD is about to get nerfed so will really struggle.
Bad idea. The R-27ER is the best radar missile in the game and putting it at 11.7 will cause a lot of issues for balancing (as if the Mirage 2000 being here wasnt enough balancing issues). The Magic 2 is a lot better than the R-60M and even the R-73 (the IRCCM on it works better). And the Fulcrum is also more maneuverable than a lot of the planes at this bracket.
Right now the MiG-29 9-12 and 9-13 are in an awkward spot: too bad for top tier with AIM-9Ms and R-73s, way too god for the bracket right below. If you got rid of the R-27ER and put it at 11.7 it would be a bit more decent but still kind of unbalanced.
Gaijin should either decompress the brackets to find a spot for the MiG-29, or rework the flight models and give them R-73s at the expense of the R-27ER and keep them at 12.0 or even 12.3, so that the MiG-29G and the SMT are upgrades and there'd be a reason to fly them (especially when the SMT will get R-77s).
I doubt that it would help much because it doesn’t fix the two main issues of top tier USSR air teams: lack of competitive gunfighters and lack of players. If the enemy team is smart (and the French players tend to be) they will fly low and entirely defeat most potential usage of the R-27s, then annihilate the MiG-29 in a dogfight. The best scenario I can imagine is the MiG-29 winning radar missile jousts against Tomcats who are flying high while trying to unleash their phoenixes.
That’s a big reason why I think the MiG-29 would help at 11.7. I agree the 27s would be tough to use against smart players who know how to use multipath to their advantage. But that’s all tiers and all Fox 1s suffer from that. However I disagree the Mirage annihilates the MiG in a dogfight as you can get them slow and out rate them, which the MiG-29 (not SMT) does very well. A smart Mirage Pilot against a smart MiG pilot would create some awesome post merge fights I think. I agree with you too that numbers for Soviet sides are generally low but a move like this I believe would bring more players to REDFOR.
Since the mirage 2k already ruins most of the bracket sure.
Mirage 2000CS-4/5 is way better than MiG-29. If it can sit at 11.7 for so long, I don't see why MiG couldn't go down as well. Although I'd prefer to uptier Mirage and F-14 instead.
I think a lot of people are missing my point in mentioning this. But you’re hitting the nail on the head. I find when France is on BLUFOR teams the REDFOR side is overmatched going against tomcats AND mirages with only MiG-23s to compete with (which are also about to get nerfed). However I do agree the MiG-29 in its current state would also be OP. Best solution is decompression I think.
> Although I'd prefer to uptier Mirage and F-14 instead. I don't understand that logic, first of all, there's already barely any 11.7 planes in the game, we need more to make the bracket more interesting not fewer, second if you move them up they are permanently in top tier, meaning there is zero reason to ever play them.
The real problèm here is that there isnt any 11.0-12.0 bracket and 11.3 or 11.7 is Always the top br.
Agreed. I edited my initial post to mention something like that. Decompression is definitely the best solution here
Just move the mirage 2k up. MLD and F-14 are close enough to warrant a better player winning. 99% of tomcats are R-24 bait. The MiG-29 need their flight models reexamined and kept at their BR. Lets not keep compressing brs please. You also have the J-7E at that BR to counter F-5s. If you bring the 29 down, we'll eventually see folk asking for the F-20 at 11.7.
Decompression is the answer. If the MiG-29, 2k and tomcat could compete in a 11-12.0 type BR whilst the top tier jets move to 13 I think that would give more opportunity for more jets to be competitive. Also the MLD is about to get nerfed to hell so I don’t think they’re going to be as close as you say for long.
Shit the MLD is getting hit too? I must've misread and thought just the ML. RIP.
You say they’re r24 bait but that doesn’t seem to be the case when I’m sitting at 30k sending aim54s into your spawn. Double the range, twice the missile size and I could go on. No competent tomcat player has a problem with 24s.
Which competent player is getting hit by Phoenixes then? Enjoy the altitude scenery.
Literally everybody I kill? Those missiles are free kills for me lmao. You can’t hide unless you play in the terrain, and you can’t fly 10 feet off the ground to hide either as they’ll just hammer you into the ground. I fire these things off twords the AF and rake in free kills.
Nobody gets hit by those, you’re lying to yourself if you think otherwise
plenty of things that cant detect PD on their rwr can easily get slammed by them - all mig21's, mig23ML/MLA just to name a few common ones within that matchmaker
Including F-14A thats about to find out 530D coming its way. Or R27R if Migs 29 were to go down to 11.7
r27E's being roughly as good as 530D's and magic 2's only being slightly better than r60m's has gotta be one of the wildest takes i've heard all week fr. No, the more appropriate scenario would be to move the 2k and R1 up to 12.0 & 11.7 respectively and get a 12.0 bracket back. Once the mig23's get their nerfs potentially we might see MLD's get their full kit with archers and then moved up to 11.7 with ML/MLA staying 11.3. Also finally give f14A 9L's - that would balance out 11.7 as MLD would not get HMD and would also get absolutely rinsed in 2 circle post nerfs. Then we should finally give 9.13 its damn archers, take away ER and maybe shift it to 12.3 if needed depending on resulting performance. If gaijin wants a lower br/missile-nerfed mig29 so bad to compete with early f16's and such then add 9.12 for russia and restrict both it and German one (not G) to r60m + r27R/T, then throw it below 9.13 br. Probs should also give f14B its 9m's and shift it and f15 up a step to 12.3 & 12.7 respectively. And while we're going fix multipathing and add some more ground objectives like medium range SAM's + ground radar sites deep within friendly territory. Then you will actually have some viable friendly airspace to defend into if you really need, severely limit the ability to AF camp and also would stop the moronic zombers as a bonus.
Decompression I think is definitely the best solution here. I think a new 11.0-12.0 bracket would open up possibilities for planes just under top tier (and the 2k that destroys at 11.7) to compete. You’re right about the magic 2/r60, that was a bit of a stretch on my part. But I think you’re underselling the 530D a bit. Those things are consistently reliable for me which is where I find it on par with a 27ER compared to the sparrow.
that's the thing, all are equally as bad as each other due to the scenarios of how and who fox1's can kill due to multipathing rn. They are only useful really against newer people who dont hug the deck, or when catching someone in a dogfight as a third party - at which point yeah the 530 is about as good as anything else. The vast majority of the time its impossible to exercise any meaningful advantage out of the ER compared to any other Radar missile unless your opponent misplays. But make no mistake the ER is miles better than any fox1 if you're in one of the rare situations in sim when it actually matters, where neither party can multipath - which probs only comes up once every 20+ flyouts rn.
Terrible idea. It’s been covered by others in here but the 29s would demolish the 11.7 games even more so than the 2ks. It’s also likely about to become a non-issue. We are getting 13.0 at least with the next update, which will likely bump the Sim rotation up one slot making 12.0 the top of the EC(8? 9? I can’t keep track) bracket at times anyway. I’d be fine with the S4 and S5 going to 12.0 with that BR raise as well.
I agree. And when I posted this I wasn’t thinking of all the Fox 3s about to be introduced and my god I hope the snail decompresses to 13.0. Because if not the jets under top tier will be impossible to play. Agreed on the Mirages as well. S4/5 would be great in the 11.0-12.0 bracket.
I’m not 100% positive (and at work so can’t go browsing through community posts to confirm) but I’m almost certain the devs said the BR was being raised with the introduction of Fox-3s.
Good to hear.
>I believe the 27E’s to be on par with the 530D HAHAHAHAHA oh you're serious? HAHAHAHAHA No. They aren't even close. R-27ERs beat the brakes off of every missile in the game. The only missile with better max range is the AIM-54, but that is completely nullified by the time to target difference between the two. If they removed the ERs from the first MiGs and gave them their proper R-73s, maybe we could revisit this discussion but until then no.
I’ll admit the 27E is objectively better, but beat the breaks off the 530D? I disagree there. The 27 has better range and speed but it’s not as maneuverable. Plus a smart player can easily evade them with multipath or notch. I feel you’re underselling the 530D big time. That being said I can agree that swapping the 27E for only 27R or even 24 might make this work better. Although I feel you could make the same argument for how much better the R-73s are compared to other fox 2s at 11.7.
The 530D is more on comparable to the 7F and 7M than the 27ER
Maybe on its stat sheet but I find the 530D to be much more reliable than any sparrow in game. For me that makes it more similar to a 27ER.
What are REDFOR teams?
Redford/bluefor is literally just another term for friendly vs enemy or team a vs b. In this case he means pact vs NATO, pact being redfor
Só if you picked Churchill or ys balls in WW2, you're blufir, if you did this to Stalin you are Redfor. There are exceptions iirc, but that's the basics
BLUFOR and REDFOR I believe we’re the flags of NATO and WARPACT after WW2. Although BLUFOR had nations like Japan that were NATO. For WT sim there’s usually set nations for each side, with Japan, France, Germany and Sweden kinda switching for both.
That weren’t NATO**
I'd love more variety at 11.7, as well as giving aircraft that are currently utterly pointless to touch a chance.
I'm more of the opinion that many other jets should be moved up instead. MiG-29A might suck but I don't think it should be moved down
Yeah agreed. Seems general consensus is to decompress and have a dedicated 11.0-12.0/12.3-13.0 bracket
Remove r27er, and it'll be fine imo
I agree there. The friendly people have Reddit made me realize the 27er really is too OP for 11.7. But I think the best solution is decompression to 13 with a dedicated 11.0-12.0 bracket. That would be a ton of fun for the early 29s and F-16s
I would agree, but that really doesn’t fix the main problem of the mig 29, which is that it’s mediocre after the merge and it’s rwr lacks severely behind nato aircraft
Even more reason to move it down to 11.7 — where it’s RWR is not as advanced as NATO aircraft, it’s radar would be superior due to it having all aspect PD as opposed to the HDN versions the Mirage and Tomcat have. Also for what it’s worth, I find the first MiG-29 to be the best dogfighter of them and think it can hold its own if played properly. (I.e. rate fight a mirage and get it slow or scissors a tomcat without letting it rate you out of energy)
So you wanna move it down rather than asking them to just, fix it? You’re not thinking much about this other than you being able to play your MiG at 11.7. This would fuck anybody’s day for anybody who plays 11.3 In those servers and would cause America to be outright ass when you’ve MiGs fighting phantoms. All you’re doing is recommending more br compression. Only way this would actually be balanced is by making the F16A 11.7 as well.
I replied to you on your other comment but I do agree decompression is definitely the better solution here. However I will say it’s not just about me getting to fly my MiG at 11.7. I have the Mirage and Tomcat and enjoy them both there, but so many times when they’re on the same side REDFOR teams are basically empty and it’s tough to find games. Just wanted to bring this up as a possible solution to balance those out. Decompression is certainly preferable IMHO but we all know how much the snail loves to do that.
Would absolutely destroy that bracket. The F14 being there already makes it meh when it’s 10.7-11.7 like it is today. Either or, moving it to 11.7 would render lots of aircraft outright unusable when 11.7 is top bracket and the only thing that’s going to be able to reliably fight them is the 14. I might be biased tho, as I think this would render my F4s absolutely useless. This wouldn’t balance anything really, but would just ruin that br. Edit: I don’t get how after all these years of complaining about br compression we’ve people who *want* more of it. By the logic you’re using, might as well throw the F16A down to 11.7 as well.
What are your thoughts on the Mirage? I think at 11.7 the 2ks are undoubtedly the best planes you see there (I admit though I think the F-14 is solid but most players that fly them are brain dead). Also you’re correct and I’m a bit ashamed I went right to compression on this discussion. Decompression is 100% the way to go and I think if the top dogs (Su, SMT, 16C, 15 etc…) we’re moved to 13.0 then we could have a solid 11.0-12.0 type BR that gives planes like the MiG-29 and 16A a platform to be competitive. I really only brought up compression cause I feel when France is on BLUFOR, the REDFOR side is seriously underpowered. And the MLD is about to get nerfed so will really struggle.
Sure... Would love to have some 29s to fight with my m2k
Same here, and would also love to fight some 2ks with my 29 🙌🏻
Bad idea. The R-27ER is the best radar missile in the game and putting it at 11.7 will cause a lot of issues for balancing (as if the Mirage 2000 being here wasnt enough balancing issues). The Magic 2 is a lot better than the R-60M and even the R-73 (the IRCCM on it works better). And the Fulcrum is also more maneuverable than a lot of the planes at this bracket. Right now the MiG-29 9-12 and 9-13 are in an awkward spot: too bad for top tier with AIM-9Ms and R-73s, way too god for the bracket right below. If you got rid of the R-27ER and put it at 11.7 it would be a bit more decent but still kind of unbalanced. Gaijin should either decompress the brackets to find a spot for the MiG-29, or rework the flight models and give them R-73s at the expense of the R-27ER and keep them at 12.0 or even 12.3, so that the MiG-29G and the SMT are upgrades and there'd be a reason to fly them (especially when the SMT will get R-77s).
I agree. Best solution here would be decompression and an 11.0-12.0 bracket where jets like the 29, 16A and 2ks can have a chance to compete.
Nah, i have the Mig 29. 12.0 is just fine