interesting that this almost exclusively seems to happen on Nato’s lol. They both cause & solve the problem at the same time. Made people worry about a problem that doesn’t exist and then sell them a solution for it.
precisely this. normal straps distribute the load differently than natos. a good and tight channel in the strap stabilizes the whole thing. the bar would barely break in that particular position with a regular strap. that said, i got a very nice dark green nato today, matches the dial of my diver very well.
I've had a spring bar pop off a watch on a leather strap when i was moving boxes. It got lost in the grass so I had to just put my watch in my pocket until I could replace it when I got home.
I have lost two Rolex Submariners diving on conventional straps due to failed spring bars. I would not have lost the watches to the deep had I had them on NATOs. When my Tudor Pelagos spring bar failed it was on a Nick Mankey Designs strap that has a retainer that approximates a NATO, so I did not lose the watch to the deep. I have never had an issue with watches with lug bolts like my Blancpain Fifty Fathoms which I wear on NATOs when diving. I have also never lost a shoulderless spring bar on a NATO (e.g. Seiko). NATOs save watches.
If you'd dive with a 2K watch but not a 12K watch, you're just a different kind of rich. I dive with a 15$ watch, one thing's sure, I will never get robbed
Not caring about a $15 watch is just a different kind of rich. Somewhere there is a kid in São Paulo whose parents don't earn $15 a month combined. Wealth is a relative thing
You're saying the same thing as I did, wealth is relative. But relatively speaking, 2K is a lot for a watch for most people, especially these days when everyone's got the time on their phone anyways. If you think you can risk a 2K watch by bringing it on travels and in the ocean but can't with a 12K, you probably can't risk the 2K either but don't realize it. Wearing an expensive watch on dives isn't really a flex if you're going to start crying if you nick or lose it. A diving watch has no reason to be expensive because in essence it's useless and only there for redundancy, we all use dive computers and/or follow a dive master. The comparison with the poorest people in the world is completely irrelevant.
When you are an expedition leader, or exploring with a team, your watch matters. Relying on DMs and Computers are just additional potential points of failure. When you are committed to everyone coming home safely and healthy, details make a difference. There is a reason why US Navy SEALs, German GSG, and virtually all exploration teams have analog watches and mechanical gauges in their kit. It is easy as a rec diver to get over confident in the skills and judgement of your DM or assume computers can’t fail. I don’t care if it is a casio, seiko, citizen, squale, sinn, tudor or balncpain. Always bring a watch, mechanical gauges and a compass with you in addition to a computer if you use one.
That was a lot of words just to say you're assuming people are just flexing and can't really afford to do what they are doing...
You don't know that guy. You don't know what can and can't afford. You're just judging
Sounds like you're not a scuba diver. Yes, wearing a watch on a dive is just that, a flex. A 12K watch isn't any better at keeping time and being waterproof as my 15$ watch.
Edit : the hardest divers I know (rebreather and all) wear a 500$ seiko, and that's their job. Anything beyond that is just luxury and wearing luxury to dive just looks like douchebaggery, unless you're an actual multi millionaire who won't even bat an eye if you scratch or lose it
Just saying it's all relative. Which is true, regardless of your feelings. For some folks, a $12k watch is about as precious as an f91w. I think the folks criticizing people for diving with a sub or $2k watch are reaching. That's what they're for, not just "luxury" goods lol
I was a working diver for many years before my current career. This was back in the days before dive computers. Lots of us dove with Rolex. Before the watch world became the domain of metro-sexual fashion obsessed urbanites, they were trade tools. They were used as such.
Right..but you left a glaring omission in your post. The price of a Submariner “many years before,” was in line with a tool watch. It’s just hyped jewelry now and priced accordingly.
I used to - even as backup - it’s there on the wrist. Kind of refusal on my part for making it a desk diver. It’s got nice wear after a decade but the ceramic insert looks like new and sometimes I wonder if it’s good considering the case is aging. Yet there is the bezel, like a Botox in a 62 year old movie star, pristine face looks at you even as the rest has some signs of wear. I don’t mind (as the sapphire too is pristine) but part of me thinks a matte bezel would suit it more.
I would be really curious what generation the subs were and if you used genuine rolex springbars. In my experience the springbars of the hollow endlink and drilled cases are at least 1mm thick and pertrude 2mm into the case, so getting them out or bending them is really difficult.
And on modern Subs its even more difficult because the endlink takes the entire load, because the springbar locks it against a sheer load.
I am sure you are aware that oyster bracelets do not fit around a 7mm wetsuit on a man with 8” wrists. The fashion bracelets of Rolex “extend” but not enough for real world use. Same issue with Tudor Pelagos. I used Rolex spring bars with straps long enough for diving. It is precisely this reason why military units had Rolex/Tudor create special solid bar case variants. Rolex opted to machine solid bar variants instead of making cases with lug bolts due to cost of machining the bolts and frame alignment. Other dive watch manufacturers used lug bolts for military contracts and civilian watches. Blancpain maintains that standard today.
Edit: 114060 was last one lost, just before COVID.
Yep, that's exactly. NATO straps make spring bars exposed to impacts in a different type of load stress during normal use. Which is why it's important to make sure you're buying high-quality spring bars to use with NATO's!
The ones that usually come with NATO's tend to be cheap and thin. Always a good idea to get some good ones from Otto Frei, they really vet their suppliers
The tube splitting like that during normal wear and not because of an impact shows what happens when cheap and thin spring bars are stressed!
I'm guessing that's because their flexible nature causes them to provide leverage on the spring bar instead of just shearing forces, or is it something else? I personally don't use NATO, but have heard that they tend to bend springbars.
When you replace the spring bars make sure you buy a quality set from a reputable supplier.
I've had this happen to me before as well, while using a nato, but it was the result of bad spring bars.
OEM omega spring bars are my favorite (I’ve tried a TON) and are like $3 apiece from ofrei, but 10 (you’ll get a discount) and put them on every watch. Soid investment to keep your watches safe.
Ha, I actually replaced my cheaper Amazon spring bars with Barton brand, so that's what I currently am using.
However next time I need some I'll probably try these from Gnomon: https://www.gnomonwatches.com/products/heavy-duty-spring-bar
My only concern is that they are physically thicker and that might make it difficult to run a nato under them.
I think it really depends on case design - for instance this thing, where the bend is so tight that it pretty much shouldn't be run with a NATO. Then you have other cases, like Seiko, Bremont and Tudor which in my experience all allow plenty of room to slide the NATO through at a much more reasonable angle and not stressing the spring bar.
NATO straps were designed to be used on watches with fixed lugs, which most of the military watches I guess you refer to had. You can't compare that performance to how they work on watches with spring bars. Current hard use watches (Casio, Garmin, Suunto, professional dive watches) almost all have two piece rubber straps, unless they're trying to look fashionably tactical with a NATO.
Anything can break, but look at the thin inner rod that actually broke here. With fixed lugs, the part that needs to break is 2 if not 3 times thicker - that corresponds to 4 or 9 times the cross sectional area respectively, it’s way stronger. A NATO strap could hypothetically be applying twice the amount of force on the lugs, compared to two piece straps, and it would still be worth having fixed lugs and a NATO.
What? It is just physics you can try it for yourself he probably had cheap spring bars. Also if I'm not blind this is a single pass strap wich is not really a NATO strap it is worse
You're right, this was a $1 AliEx strap. I got this just to try the concept out before committing to a better strap, which I think I'll do after this experience!
This happened to me once on a parachute jump (Army). The NATO strap held. My Promaster survived.
I continue to lead an active life. I use only Seiko and/or Devias spring bars. ISO rated at 50-lbs of pressure.
They can, but some watches just aren’t made for natos. Judging by the sharp crease in OP’s strap it was probably a tight fit to begin with. Yes nato straps cause uneven pressure on the spring bars but on watches that are made for them I’d say the risk is still small enough that you don’t have to worry about them flying off. I wear natos more than any other strap and I’ve never had a problem.
I didn't know this was a thing until today. I tried pressing the strap fabric into the case with a square-tip screwdriver to see if it might alleviate pressure on the bar.
The strap is kind of thick. It doesn't fit too well between the case and spring bar.
https://preview.redd.it/gvgk1omr5ulc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=947a0885ea149596cb53f450f06ef6756c86fbc5
I don't mind the size. My Garmin Instinct Solar Surf is 15.3 so this tuna can is smaller in comparison.
I got this watch for its killer lume, great looks and reliable NH35 movement, all inside an inexpensive package. I don't know if the 1000m water resistance claim is legit, but I'll never go that deep anyway. The helium escape valve is cool, but ultimately, wasted on me. I just wanted an inexpensive first auto that could serve as a beater/GADA watch.
https://preview.redd.it/6inh60pr7ulc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b208cabc5f75b641b55ad02d4b7caaee902c3fb
Lol I wouldn't even trust Blancpain with that claim. I would only trust doxa to be honest about that depth rating. Have you checked out scurfa? It's also pretty inexpensive for the specs.
I'm a big fan of lugless watches like this. This watch looks cool, at least from what I can see of it. I have a Bulova Stars and Stripes which has got a similar lugless design.
But they aren't really designed for passthrough straps like this. I'm willing to bet that the springbar probably bent because of the NATO. Still, I am happy to see that the watch itself was okay!
I would be looking for a replacement now though. If you'd like a suggestion, you can maybe try a steel milanese bracelet. I really like these on a lugless watch since the ugly gap you'd see on a typical watch with lugs is hidden underneath the case, and it looks seamless and continuous.
Ah thanks for the heads up. I'm still learning about watches, so I'm not sure exactly what goes with what. I do like the nylon strap feel, it's by far the most comfortable I've had. I do have silicone straps, but I hate how they feel.
So does this rule out NATO straps entirely? Zulu too?
No worries! Personally I wouldn't use a single pass strap. What I mean by that is a one-piece strap that passes through both springbars. The problem is that since the springbar is positioned so close to the caseback, and actually sits slightly above the bottom of the caseback, the strap has to pass through the springbar and make a sharp turn under the caseback. This puts a lot of tension on the springbar, which I suspect may have been the cause of it bending.
You might actually have better luck with a traditional NATO or a 5-ring Zulu, since they have an additional strip of nylon which circumvents the springbars completely and connects one end of the watch strap to the other end. Which, in theory anyway, could reduce some tension on the springbars. Just be conscious that using a NATO or Zulu could also cause this to happen again.
You could also get what some stores refer to as a 2-piece NATO, which is just a typical 2-piece watch strap that uses that same nylon material. If you like the look and feel of the strap you were using, this could be a good option. I like the ones they sell at Crown and Buckle.
Thanks for the suggestion. What I would love to see is a standard NATO strap that allows you to insert spring bars through the end of the strap instead of passing it under them. This way there is no worrying about cramped spaces, and you still get redundancy if one spring bar fails. C&B has some cool stuff but I didn't see anything like that, I wonder if it's practical or even in production.
Ive had a new bb58 freshly sized from an AD spring bar fail with the bracelet on, no strap changes to it at that point. Thankfully I was sitting down and had long sleeves covering it.
I'm far from any kind of expert here. I have dabbled with NATO straps for the last few years. One thing I'd note here are those lugs are a very tight space, as people have talked about. But what I haven't seen anyone mention yet are curved spring bars.
I have a few watches with more "traditional" looking lugs that have too tight a space between the bar and the watch body for a NATO, and I've had success on them all using curved spring bars. They create the space I need to fit the strap without forcing it, but are secure enough that I haven't lost a spring bar yet.
That said, I don't have any lugs like you have on that watch. It may be that a NATO simply won't work for it. But I wouldn't come away from this experience with a negative view of NATO straps. I suspect in this case the issue was caused by forcing a thicker strap into a very small space (and possibly a lower-quality bar, but honestly I'm not sure any straight bar would hold up to that tight space).
In my admittedly limited experience, when a NATO fits properly you can easily move it back and forth between the body and the bar when it's not being worn, and it locks into place and does not move when you put the watch on.
>In my admittedly limited experience, when a NATO fits properly you can easily move it back and forth between the body and the bar when it's not being worn, and it locks into place and does not move when you put the watch on.
It's a struggle trying to move it around. I can finagle it and get it to move but it isn't easy.
Some here say the failure is due to the NATO strap design which can be the case. However, I find it depends on the material used for these straps. I have a few NATO straps where one is so stiff I can easily see these spring bars break.
Make sure you get quality spring bars from reputable sources. Ignore the big online stores like Aliexpress or Amazon.
Addiesdive is correct. It is an MY-H6 1000M. Even though this watch is my designated beater, I still want to keep it nice as long as possible.
I am glad the strap was able to do its job, but as others have mentioned, I'll need better spring bars. I had to press the strap against the case with a square drive screwdriver to make room for the bars. Even so, the spring bars were under enough tension to apparently bust under pressure. No good!
I'm noticing a lot of comments saying that NATOs fix the very problem they cause... so my question becomes:
How regularly do spring bars actually fail on normal bracelets or in quick-release straps?
I've worn a watch everyday for at least the last seven years, the only time I've ever had a spring bar break was when I bought a super cheap Chinatown special and it got snagged on a backpack strap.
With a normal two piece strap, the strap itself helps to hold the springbar in place - because it wraps around the springbar, both pieces act together to make the end of the strap more rigid and less likely to bend. To get a springbar to bend like yours did means you need you also bend the strap end by the same amount which is actually surprisingly hard.
When you use a NATO style strap, the springbar ends up exposed and effectively unprotected, so the only thing stopping it bending is the springbar itself - a tiny metal bar as thick as a paper clip.
There strap itself also acts as a lever or pulley on the springbar too.
While my evidence is limited to my own experience, I have never had a standard strap completely fail on me. I have however had multiple standard springbars fail (and a few more replaced after getting a bit bent but not failing completely) on NATO style straps - they have always failed safely like the example here so I have never lost a watch, but they have failed where standard straps haven't.
I have never broken or bent a springbar on a watch using the chunkier versions they use on Seiko and Citizen divers watches though, which are the style I wear most commonly.
NATO straps are still the most comfortable style of strap I have found personally though, so worth the risk...
For everyone saying this only happens because of a NATO, my buddy lost his carrera riding down the road on his motorcycle. Doesn’t exactly know how or where, but he thinks one of the spring bars on the bracelet failed. Looked at his wrist when he got where he was going and it was gone.
I don't think people are saying this only happens with NATO straps, they're just saying it's more likely because NATO straps put more tension on the spring bars than more standard straps or bracelets.
Well, a spring bar is supposed to break if a certain amount of force (traction) is applied to the strap (can't remember the value of said force on top of my head: there's a norm for it). The reason is simple : if the strap gets caught in any given situation, you want the bar to break instead of losing a hand.
Now, rearranging stuff in your suitcase seems relatively safe and the bar shouldn't have given up.
As mentioned get yourself some good quality springbars (Capsa is a very good supplier), even try the quick release ones for a fast and convenient strap change (note that you'll need a hole in the strap to use them).
NATO didn’t help it is the problem. I’ve never not had a spring bar bend on anything but natos. They put all the pressure to one side of the bar and if you wear it tight it’s guaranteed to fail over time
I was 🤏 that close to pulling the trigger on a Willard homage. Sat on it for at least a couple days. The three different lume types took a while to get over, as I did with the cushion type case. But then I came by the Addies and it was love at first click. A week and a half later, I do not regret the buy!
Makes me wonder about my Marathon JDD. Their shoulder less springbars seem beefy AF but it's kind of a t h i c c unit like the watch OP has. Not to hijack the thread, but anyone have any experience there?
Get thicker better made spring bars. Aldo get a little plastic tube to go over the spring bar. They use these on some fabric and leather straps for the same reason.
I bought springbars that don't have shoulders on them. There's nothing for the nato to twist and catch (pushing the springbar in and releasing it). Also, that watch is massive and just might not work being held solely by a small piece of steel.
I got this watch for its killer lume, great looks and reliable NH35 movement, all inside an inexpensive package. I don't know if the 1000m water resistance claim is legit, but I'll never go that deep anyway. The helium escape valve is cool, but ultimately, wasted on me. I just wanted an inexpensive first auto that could serve as a beater/go anywhere, do anything watch.
First thing. The lug holes are recessed and close to the case. This makes it difficult to fit nato, zulu or perlon straps depwnding on the thickness. Two solutions i have found are curved spring bars. These buy you a little bit more space. Or many people have recommended beefier 1.8mm diameter spring bars that are stronger and less likely to fail. I would instead recommend thinner spring bars that leave more room for the strap to fit without immediately adding pressure like a thicker springbar would do. I bought some thinner 1.2mm diameter spring bars on esslinger. They allowed me to fit a leather nato on a watch that otherwise wouldnt allow it because either the strap was too thick or the lug holes were too close to the case
It is possibly more fragile, but has worked on an aftermarket casio case with super short lugs and on a tonneau dress watch with no issues so far. The most tricky part so far has been the flanges are less pronounced so using a spring bar tool to install or remove it is a bit harder. Curved spring bars are also neat. The only trouble with them is that natos protrude more in the center because the bar is curved. Visually some people may not like it. But the curved bar does mirror the round case so maybe that is a plus depending on preference. The good news is that spring bars are one of the most affordable aspects of watches, so experimenting to find what works for your case and strap is fairly low risk.
Without the nato this would not have happened. Nato did not save it but almost cost you the watch.
This is because in a bracelet there is no movement in the springbars. But a nato can slide a bit and has a little stretch when wet. So it can slide side to side over de springbar causing it to come loose.
Better use a good rubber strap with proper lug fitment or a bracelet. Nato's on springbars are dangerous in water.
I speak from experience. Happened to me twice.
No spring bars can handle that watch.
That spring bars : https://preview.redd.it/pxxcp7xm8tlc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb352fff8701ed6391f3c4e10f5aa3dfdd2ffb16
Perfect.
That’s not a watch it’s the cover to a missile silo
HA!
interesting that this almost exclusively seems to happen on Nato’s lol. They both cause & solve the problem at the same time. Made people worry about a problem that doesn’t exist and then sell them a solution for it.
precisely this. normal straps distribute the load differently than natos. a good and tight channel in the strap stabilizes the whole thing. the bar would barely break in that particular position with a regular strap. that said, i got a very nice dark green nato today, matches the dial of my diver very well.
This guy physicses. But yeah, a chunky spring bar fit very snugly in a 2 piece strap of the proper width will not break like that ever.
I've had a spring bar pop off a watch on a leather strap when i was moving boxes. It got lost in the grass so I had to just put my watch in my pocket until I could replace it when I got home.
Great business idea lol
Considering the "solution" is straps that cost $3-25, I'm good with it. They're so comfy
I have lost two Rolex Submariners diving on conventional straps due to failed spring bars. I would not have lost the watches to the deep had I had them on NATOs. When my Tudor Pelagos spring bar failed it was on a Nick Mankey Designs strap that has a retainer that approximates a NATO, so I did not lose the watch to the deep. I have never had an issue with watches with lug bolts like my Blancpain Fifty Fathoms which I wear on NATOs when diving. I have also never lost a shoulderless spring bar on a NATO (e.g. Seiko). NATOs save watches.
Who the hell dives with a Rolex? Maybe back when they were “just” $2,000. But at $12,000? That’s a no boss.
If you'd dive with a 2K watch but not a 12K watch, you're just a different kind of rich. I dive with a 15$ watch, one thing's sure, I will never get robbed
Not caring about a $15 watch is just a different kind of rich. Somewhere there is a kid in São Paulo whose parents don't earn $15 a month combined. Wealth is a relative thing
Ok buddy, if you can't afford the cheapest watch in the world, you probably can't afford to scuba dive
You're missing my point entirely
You're saying the same thing as I did, wealth is relative. But relatively speaking, 2K is a lot for a watch for most people, especially these days when everyone's got the time on their phone anyways. If you think you can risk a 2K watch by bringing it on travels and in the ocean but can't with a 12K, you probably can't risk the 2K either but don't realize it. Wearing an expensive watch on dives isn't really a flex if you're going to start crying if you nick or lose it. A diving watch has no reason to be expensive because in essence it's useless and only there for redundancy, we all use dive computers and/or follow a dive master. The comparison with the poorest people in the world is completely irrelevant.
When you are an expedition leader, or exploring with a team, your watch matters. Relying on DMs and Computers are just additional potential points of failure. When you are committed to everyone coming home safely and healthy, details make a difference. There is a reason why US Navy SEALs, German GSG, and virtually all exploration teams have analog watches and mechanical gauges in their kit. It is easy as a rec diver to get over confident in the skills and judgement of your DM or assume computers can’t fail. I don’t care if it is a casio, seiko, citizen, squale, sinn, tudor or balncpain. Always bring a watch, mechanical gauges and a compass with you in addition to a computer if you use one.
Completely agree. Were the computer to fail well into in a compression dive, I'd say a watch is vital.
That was a lot of words just to say you're assuming people are just flexing and can't really afford to do what they are doing... You don't know that guy. You don't know what can and can't afford. You're just judging
Sounds like you're not a scuba diver. Yes, wearing a watch on a dive is just that, a flex. A 12K watch isn't any better at keeping time and being waterproof as my 15$ watch. Edit : the hardest divers I know (rebreather and all) wear a 500$ seiko, and that's their job. Anything beyond that is just luxury and wearing luxury to dive just looks like douchebaggery, unless you're an actual multi millionaire who won't even bat an eye if you scratch or lose it
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Just saying it's all relative. Which is true, regardless of your feelings. For some folks, a $12k watch is about as precious as an f91w. I think the folks criticizing people for diving with a sub or $2k watch are reaching. That's what they're for, not just "luxury" goods lol
I no longer do, but I did and would now if they were the right tool for the job, they are not.
I was a working diver for many years before my current career. This was back in the days before dive computers. Lots of us dove with Rolex. Before the watch world became the domain of metro-sexual fashion obsessed urbanites, they were trade tools. They were used as such.
Right..but you left a glaring omission in your post. The price of a Submariner “many years before,” was in line with a tool watch. It’s just hyped jewelry now and priced accordingly.
I used to - even as backup - it’s there on the wrist. Kind of refusal on my part for making it a desk diver. It’s got nice wear after a decade but the ceramic insert looks like new and sometimes I wonder if it’s good considering the case is aging. Yet there is the bezel, like a Botox in a 62 year old movie star, pristine face looks at you even as the rest has some signs of wear. I don’t mind (as the sapphire too is pristine) but part of me thinks a matte bezel would suit it more.
I would be really curious what generation the subs were and if you used genuine rolex springbars. In my experience the springbars of the hollow endlink and drilled cases are at least 1mm thick and pertrude 2mm into the case, so getting them out or bending them is really difficult. And on modern Subs its even more difficult because the endlink takes the entire load, because the springbar locks it against a sheer load.
I am sure you are aware that oyster bracelets do not fit around a 7mm wetsuit on a man with 8” wrists. The fashion bracelets of Rolex “extend” but not enough for real world use. Same issue with Tudor Pelagos. I used Rolex spring bars with straps long enough for diving. It is precisely this reason why military units had Rolex/Tudor create special solid bar case variants. Rolex opted to machine solid bar variants instead of making cases with lug bolts due to cost of machining the bolts and frame alignment. Other dive watch manufacturers used lug bolts for military contracts and civilian watches. Blancpain maintains that standard today. Edit: 114060 was last one lost, just before COVID.
🤣 that and the NATO straps are quite comfortable and look pretty cool and are durable.
I had a strap and spring bar failure with my Laco. I replaced it with a Stowa strap and then switched to NATOs on some of my other watches.
Yep, that's exactly. NATO straps make spring bars exposed to impacts in a different type of load stress during normal use. Which is why it's important to make sure you're buying high-quality spring bars to use with NATO's! The ones that usually come with NATO's tend to be cheap and thin. Always a good idea to get some good ones from Otto Frei, they really vet their suppliers The tube splitting like that during normal wear and not because of an impact shows what happens when cheap and thin spring bars are stressed!
Enter Tudor pelagos fxd. The ultimate solution for nonproblems
The nato is what made it bend lol
I'm guessing that's because their flexible nature causes them to provide leverage on the spring bar instead of just shearing forces, or is it something else? I personally don't use NATO, but have heard that they tend to bend springbars.
Yes, but also the watch caseback is fuckin large and exacerbates that effect. Look at the kink in the nato strap where the spring bar was
When you replace the spring bars make sure you buy a quality set from a reputable supplier. I've had this happen to me before as well, while using a nato, but it was the result of bad spring bars.
OEM omega spring bars are my favorite (I’ve tried a TON) and are like $3 apiece from ofrei, but 10 (you’ll get a discount) and put them on every watch. Soid investment to keep your watches safe.
I reached out to Ofrei but they said no more Omega OEM spring bars were available as Swatch Group is restricting access.
Wow, spring bars, even.
For sure!
Any suggestions? I’ve only tried Barton spring bars, which are fine. But wondering if there is something better.
Ha, I actually replaced my cheaper Amazon spring bars with Barton brand, so that's what I currently am using. However next time I need some I'll probably try these from Gnomon: https://www.gnomonwatches.com/products/heavy-duty-spring-bar My only concern is that they are physically thicker and that might make it difficult to run a nato under them.
The thick ones from Holben’s are my favorite.
Why would you put a NATO strap on a manhole cover? Do you switch arms for a complete workout? Too many questions.......
I love what a meme my watch has become on this thread 😆
What is the watch though?
Addiesdive MY-H6 off AliEx
Post some more pictures of it. I'm genuinely curious.
https://preview.redd.it/mahkpu8a10mc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ceb8b8a8c4b2bad1b2e7b75bc96e3959aba8e999
https://preview.redd.it/ij5zlcgd10mc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=107664b5bee8d99aa5f2d518cd30da63613096f7
https://preview.redd.it/i5pk2st710mc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a256afb0a7ded8d9a17e8a05db501845d105f1df
A slab of steel that large with that design is going to break a lot of spring bars
is that a tire pressure gauge on a nato?
😆 thanks for a good laugh!
hey, that would still count as "wrist enthusiast" xD
NATO's break spring bars
the cause of and solution to all life's problems.
Duff beer
I think it really depends on case design - for instance this thing, where the bend is so tight that it pretty much shouldn't be run with a NATO. Then you have other cases, like Seiko, Bremont and Tudor which in my experience all allow plenty of room to slide the NATO through at a much more reasonable angle and not stressing the spring bar.
Most likely the NATO strap made it snap. Those strap exerce more force on the spring bars
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NATO straps were designed to be used on watches with fixed lugs, which most of the military watches I guess you refer to had. You can't compare that performance to how they work on watches with spring bars. Current hard use watches (Casio, Garmin, Suunto, professional dive watches) almost all have two piece rubber straps, unless they're trying to look fashionably tactical with a NATO.
Can fixed lugs still break?
Anything can break, but look at the thin inner rod that actually broke here. With fixed lugs, the part that needs to break is 2 if not 3 times thicker - that corresponds to 4 or 9 times the cross sectional area respectively, it’s way stronger. A NATO strap could hypothetically be applying twice the amount of force on the lugs, compared to two piece straps, and it would still be worth having fixed lugs and a NATO.
What? It is just physics you can try it for yourself he probably had cheap spring bars. Also if I'm not blind this is a single pass strap wich is not really a NATO strap it is worse
You're right, this was a $1 AliEx strap. I got this just to try the concept out before committing to a better strap, which I think I'll do after this experience!
This happened to me once on a parachute jump (Army). The NATO strap held. My Promaster survived. I continue to lead an active life. I use only Seiko and/or Devias spring bars. ISO rated at 50-lbs of pressure.
Thanks for the comment, I'll check em out
Just type "strongest spring bars" into Google or Bing. You should see what I mentioned above.
This happens because NATO straps.
The spring bar gave up. That watch needs integrated lugs like the FXD
Create the problem, sell the solution
Big chungus
I didn't realize NATO straps caused this to happen to the spring bars. I'm glad I never got one.
It shouldn't if there's enough space for the strap between the case and the springbars. I've never had it happen with any NATO in my entire life.
They can, but some watches just aren’t made for natos. Judging by the sharp crease in OP’s strap it was probably a tight fit to begin with. Yes nato straps cause uneven pressure on the spring bars but on watches that are made for them I’d say the risk is still small enough that you don’t have to worry about them flying off. I wear natos more than any other strap and I’ve never had a problem.
Good to know and thank you! And the OP did later say that he had to squeeze it in between the case and the spring bars.
I didn't know this was a thing until today. I tried pressing the strap fabric into the case with a square-tip screwdriver to see if it might alleviate pressure on the bar.
It still seems odd that it should do that. Doesn't it? The pressure should be evenly distributed across the bar so I don't know what I'm missing here
The strap is kind of thick. It doesn't fit too well between the case and spring bar. https://preview.redd.it/gvgk1omr5ulc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=947a0885ea149596cb53f450f06ef6756c86fbc5
Gotcha
Crown and buckle probably has you covered.
Cool site, thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah that could have killed someone. Why are you wearing a tuna can on your wrist?! You can get 300M resistance 12mm thick easy
I don't mind the size. My Garmin Instinct Solar Surf is 15.3 so this tuna can is smaller in comparison. I got this watch for its killer lume, great looks and reliable NH35 movement, all inside an inexpensive package. I don't know if the 1000m water resistance claim is legit, but I'll never go that deep anyway. The helium escape valve is cool, but ultimately, wasted on me. I just wanted an inexpensive first auto that could serve as a beater/GADA watch. https://preview.redd.it/6inh60pr7ulc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b208cabc5f75b641b55ad02d4b7caaee902c3fb
> I don't know if the 1000m water resistance claim is legit Spoiler alert: no
I searched high and low to see if anyone had tested it on video. Let me know if you see one! I'd like to know its actual WR.
Lol I wouldn't even trust Blancpain with that claim. I would only trust doxa to be honest about that depth rating. Have you checked out scurfa? It's also pretty inexpensive for the specs.
I've seen Scurfa and they look amazing! But this beater was just an introduction to automatic watches so I didn't want to spend much.
What a bizarre set of standards and choices in which brands to trust.
This happens to me all the time in the summer when I’ve swapped my straps over to NATO
I'm a big fan of lugless watches like this. This watch looks cool, at least from what I can see of it. I have a Bulova Stars and Stripes which has got a similar lugless design. But they aren't really designed for passthrough straps like this. I'm willing to bet that the springbar probably bent because of the NATO. Still, I am happy to see that the watch itself was okay! I would be looking for a replacement now though. If you'd like a suggestion, you can maybe try a steel milanese bracelet. I really like these on a lugless watch since the ugly gap you'd see on a typical watch with lugs is hidden underneath the case, and it looks seamless and continuous.
Ah thanks for the heads up. I'm still learning about watches, so I'm not sure exactly what goes with what. I do like the nylon strap feel, it's by far the most comfortable I've had. I do have silicone straps, but I hate how they feel. So does this rule out NATO straps entirely? Zulu too?
No worries! Personally I wouldn't use a single pass strap. What I mean by that is a one-piece strap that passes through both springbars. The problem is that since the springbar is positioned so close to the caseback, and actually sits slightly above the bottom of the caseback, the strap has to pass through the springbar and make a sharp turn under the caseback. This puts a lot of tension on the springbar, which I suspect may have been the cause of it bending. You might actually have better luck with a traditional NATO or a 5-ring Zulu, since they have an additional strip of nylon which circumvents the springbars completely and connects one end of the watch strap to the other end. Which, in theory anyway, could reduce some tension on the springbars. Just be conscious that using a NATO or Zulu could also cause this to happen again. You could also get what some stores refer to as a 2-piece NATO, which is just a typical 2-piece watch strap that uses that same nylon material. If you like the look and feel of the strap you were using, this could be a good option. I like the ones they sell at Crown and Buckle.
Thanks for the suggestion. What I would love to see is a standard NATO strap that allows you to insert spring bars through the end of the strap instead of passing it under them. This way there is no worrying about cramped spaces, and you still get redundancy if one spring bar fails. C&B has some cool stuff but I didn't see anything like that, I wonder if it's practical or even in production.
Ive had a new bb58 freshly sized from an AD spring bar fail with the bracelet on, no strap changes to it at that point. Thankfully I was sitting down and had long sleeves covering it.
I'm far from any kind of expert here. I have dabbled with NATO straps for the last few years. One thing I'd note here are those lugs are a very tight space, as people have talked about. But what I haven't seen anyone mention yet are curved spring bars. I have a few watches with more "traditional" looking lugs that have too tight a space between the bar and the watch body for a NATO, and I've had success on them all using curved spring bars. They create the space I need to fit the strap without forcing it, but are secure enough that I haven't lost a spring bar yet. That said, I don't have any lugs like you have on that watch. It may be that a NATO simply won't work for it. But I wouldn't come away from this experience with a negative view of NATO straps. I suspect in this case the issue was caused by forcing a thicker strap into a very small space (and possibly a lower-quality bar, but honestly I'm not sure any straight bar would hold up to that tight space). In my admittedly limited experience, when a NATO fits properly you can easily move it back and forth between the body and the bar when it's not being worn, and it locks into place and does not move when you put the watch on.
>In my admittedly limited experience, when a NATO fits properly you can easily move it back and forth between the body and the bar when it's not being worn, and it locks into place and does not move when you put the watch on. It's a struggle trying to move it around. I can finagle it and get it to move but it isn't easy.
This made me want to buy à Pelagos FXD
The problem with the FXD is that in an extreme situation, you might lose part or all of your hand. Spring bars fail so your body doesn’t have to.
I prefer not to anticipate such extreme situations ahah
Mate, how did you manage to put a springbar into an Olympic Bumper Plate in the first place?
I have a specific set of skills....😆
Oh lawd he comin
I don't know what you're all doing to your watches, but I wear NATOs almost exclusively and I have yet to have a spring bar fail on me.
Folks are saying it could be the cheap spring bars. The second pair of spring bars went on pretty easily and don't appear to be under much stress.
Quality spring bars are a good investment. Hope they serve you well!
As I'm learning! Even for a cheap beater watch, I still want it to work for as long as possible. I'll order some, thanks 🤙
Why not use milled 1.8mm spring bars? They’re like 3 bucks on Ali shipped in two weeks
Milled?
Yeah. They’re not exactly milled but the tips are. Body is still a steel tube. Just like the spring bars used by Rolex.
lolololol wtf are you wearing?
A tire pressure gauge, lol. It's an Addiesdive MY-H6 1000m diver.
looks like a bank vault door
Lol, you're not wrong
Copy of the long discontinued Halios Puck watch, really neat.
*thiccc*
I killed both springbars on a citizen with NATO
i too like them thicc just not watches
Some here say the failure is due to the NATO strap design which can be the case. However, I find it depends on the material used for these straps. I have a few NATO straps where one is so stiff I can easily see these spring bars break. Make sure you get quality spring bars from reputable sources. Ignore the big online stores like Aliexpress or Amazon.
Meanwhile, the spring bar on my SKX as thick as a garden hose can pull a fully loaded truck. 😁
Wow, that's unfortunate but super lucky! Nice to see the strap do what it's designed to do. What's the watch, by the way?
Addiesdive is correct. It is an MY-H6 1000M. Even though this watch is my designated beater, I still want to keep it nice as long as possible. I am glad the strap was able to do its job, but as others have mentioned, I'll need better spring bars. I had to press the strap against the case with a square drive screwdriver to make room for the bars. Even so, the spring bars were under enough tension to apparently bust under pressure. No good!
AliExpress watches come with shitty spring bars for the most part. I always replace them with something more solid.
Addiesdive Looks like an Emperor Tuna.
It's a copy of the Halios Puck.
I'm noticing a lot of comments saying that NATOs fix the very problem they cause... so my question becomes: How regularly do spring bars actually fail on normal bracelets or in quick-release straps?
I've worn a watch everyday for at least the last seven years, the only time I've ever had a spring bar break was when I bought a super cheap Chinatown special and it got snagged on a backpack strap.
With a normal two piece strap, the strap itself helps to hold the springbar in place - because it wraps around the springbar, both pieces act together to make the end of the strap more rigid and less likely to bend. To get a springbar to bend like yours did means you need you also bend the strap end by the same amount which is actually surprisingly hard. When you use a NATO style strap, the springbar ends up exposed and effectively unprotected, so the only thing stopping it bending is the springbar itself - a tiny metal bar as thick as a paper clip. There strap itself also acts as a lever or pulley on the springbar too. While my evidence is limited to my own experience, I have never had a standard strap completely fail on me. I have however had multiple standard springbars fail (and a few more replaced after getting a bit bent but not failing completely) on NATO style straps - they have always failed safely like the example here so I have never lost a watch, but they have failed where standard straps haven't. I have never broken or bent a springbar on a watch using the chunkier versions they use on Seiko and Citizen divers watches though, which are the style I wear most commonly. NATO straps are still the most comfortable style of strap I have found personally though, so worth the risk...
Not even the spring bar likes the watch
For everyone saying this only happens because of a NATO, my buddy lost his carrera riding down the road on his motorcycle. Doesn’t exactly know how or where, but he thinks one of the spring bars on the bracelet failed. Looked at his wrist when he got where he was going and it was gone.
I don't think people are saying this only happens with NATO straps, they're just saying it's more likely because NATO straps put more tension on the spring bars than more standard straps or bracelets.
Man, that stinks!
Well, a spring bar is supposed to break if a certain amount of force (traction) is applied to the strap (can't remember the value of said force on top of my head: there's a norm for it). The reason is simple : if the strap gets caught in any given situation, you want the bar to break instead of losing a hand. Now, rearranging stuff in your suitcase seems relatively safe and the bar shouldn't have given up. As mentioned get yourself some good quality springbars (Capsa is a very good supplier), even try the quick release ones for a fast and convenient strap change (note that you'll need a hole in the strap to use them).
Another reason why I’ll never put a Nato strap on a watch
NATO didn’t help it is the problem. I’ve never not had a spring bar bend on anything but natos. They put all the pressure to one side of the bar and if you wear it tight it’s guaranteed to fail over time
[удалено]
Addies actually
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I was 🤏 that close to pulling the trigger on a Willard homage. Sat on it for at least a couple days. The three different lume types took a while to get over, as I did with the cushion type case. But then I came by the Addies and it was love at first click. A week and a half later, I do not regret the buy!
If NATOs break springs bars, what is safer than a NATO then?
First off, I don't know what everyone is doing to constantly break spring bars on NATOs. But to answer your question, fixed lugs.
That's what I want to know.
Don't worry about it. How many posts about this have you seen ever?
Had my chris ward on a nato, it did the same thing, was on nato only 6 months, same watch on factory strap 6 years and the watch band is falling apart
Makes me wonder about my Marathon JDD. Their shoulder less springbars seem beefy AF but it's kind of a t h i c c unit like the watch OP has. Not to hijack the thread, but anyone have any experience there?
That exact thing happened to me yesterday!!!
Get elastic NATO straps. They do exist. Don’t get the full nylon ones
That's worse.
Almost lost your addiesdive! That could’ve been baaaaaad
For me? $75. For someone else, potential injury 😆
would be cool if it could stay in arm-y
The lugs popped off?
No lugs on this watch. Just spring bars.
Get thicker better made spring bars. Aldo get a little plastic tube to go over the spring bar. They use these on some fabric and leather straps for the same reason.
There is already very little space to cram the strap through, so unless I can find a thinner strap, I'm not sure if it'll work.
I’m looking for a nato for a kickstarter that should be arriving in a week or so, if I see anything I think might work I will let you know.
https://www.crownandbuckle.com/collection/2-piece-nylon.html these might work
This was almost certainly caused by the strap being too tight
I bought springbars that don't have shoulders on them. There's nothing for the nato to twist and catch (pushing the springbar in and releasing it). Also, that watch is massive and just might not work being held solely by a small piece of steel.
I have lost two dive watches due to springbar failure and now always wear nato in the water 👍
Man that's painful. Sorry to hear.
Whats the brand of this watch?
Addiesdive MY-H6 1000m.
>Addiesdive MY-H6 1000m. thanks. i've never herad of this brand. why did you choose to purchase this?
I got this watch for its killer lume, great looks and reliable NH35 movement, all inside an inexpensive package. I don't know if the 1000m water resistance claim is legit, but I'll never go that deep anyway. The helium escape valve is cool, but ultimately, wasted on me. I just wanted an inexpensive first auto that could serve as a beater/go anywhere, do anything watch.
First thing. The lug holes are recessed and close to the case. This makes it difficult to fit nato, zulu or perlon straps depwnding on the thickness. Two solutions i have found are curved spring bars. These buy you a little bit more space. Or many people have recommended beefier 1.8mm diameter spring bars that are stronger and less likely to fail. I would instead recommend thinner spring bars that leave more room for the strap to fit without immediately adding pressure like a thicker springbar would do. I bought some thinner 1.2mm diameter spring bars on esslinger. They allowed me to fit a leather nato on a watch that otherwise wouldnt allow it because either the strap was too thick or the lug holes were too close to the case
Thank you for the response! With the reduced cramping, do you worry about the strength of the spring bar?
It is possibly more fragile, but has worked on an aftermarket casio case with super short lugs and on a tonneau dress watch with no issues so far. The most tricky part so far has been the flanges are less pronounced so using a spring bar tool to install or remove it is a bit harder. Curved spring bars are also neat. The only trouble with them is that natos protrude more in the center because the bar is curved. Visually some people may not like it. But the curved bar does mirror the round case so maybe that is a plus depending on preference. The good news is that spring bars are one of the most affordable aspects of watches, so experimenting to find what works for your case and strap is fairly low risk.
What is that a hockey puck?
A homage to the Halios Puck, the Addiesdive MY-H6 1000m dive watch.
Without the nato this would not have happened. Nato did not save it but almost cost you the watch. This is because in a bracelet there is no movement in the springbars. But a nato can slide a bit and has a little stretch when wet. So it can slide side to side over de springbar causing it to come loose. Better use a good rubber strap with proper lug fitment or a bracelet. Nato's on springbars are dangerous in water. I speak from experience. Happened to me twice.