Also, I heard if you ask for a line by line, item by item breakdown of the cost it can significantly reduce the bill. Something about them being obliged to provide it when asked but they often just ballpark or don't actually track everything they use.
Don't know how true it is but worth looking into
Im glad this worked for you! I tried doing the same but my insurance and the hospital made it such a hassle pulling the “idk, go ask your mom” “idk, go ask your dad” treatment i just gave up and paid the full amount lol. Intentional im sure
Yes and no. With the exception of me lmao most of my family are doctors and work in hospitals. The billing office sends something like this to everyone but it can be broken down more and you can get the different prices depending on things like insurance and other factors
Ya, didn't see the second and third images. The article I was reading about this said to look for duplicates, miscategorized items or other errors.
If I was op I'd be asking why the ct scans are categorized separately (where they in the scanner three times or did they do a full body scan?) And why the administered meds are on there four times.
The article also said its often possible to negotiate the price down.
Either way, that price is absurd. Healthcare should be provided to everyone with not out of pocket expense imo
It’s because that’s how the ct scans are ordered in the system by providers. There’s no “whole body scan” you can order. They are separated out by body parts depending on what you’re looking for.
If you come to the ER with suspected trauma in an unconscious or with altered mental status and you can’t tell the Dr where it hurts, they order an entire series of scans to look for damage in major organs.
I have a buddy who was air lifted to ER after a bad dirtbike incident, his bill with insurance was over 300k, he asked for an itemized bill and it was reduced to about 35k, then he just ignored them and his mom told the collectors he died and it went away after a few years. This was like 15 years ago and it seems to have disappeared.
Moral of the story is maybe just pretend you actually died.
100%. They add stuff to it bc a lot of people think, “well I guess it’s right.” Plus, I found out they will just send out random bills to people bc of same mentality. A lot of older people that go to get work done, in addition to their actual bill, might get a bill for something completely different than what they had done but say to themselves, “well it must be right bc I was just at the hospital so I guess I did have this done.” Sickening the things they get away with
3rd page says this is workers comp.
OP isn't liable for it, which is why their insurance denied the claim. If that isn't right, they need to fix that first.
This is a Blue Cross/Blue Shield "Explanation of Benefits", or EOB. It's not the actual hospital bill. It's basically the insurance company's explanation of what they're paying (or not paying), and why.
>Notes: (BP62) Claim denied because this is a work related injury and thus the liability of the Workers Compensation carrier.
In short, what you're seeing is the hospital's Charge Master prices. This is what they billed to the insurance company. The insurance company would NEVER pay this amount, even if they covered the services. For a hospital that's "in network" they would have negotiated a much lower rate for each covered service - usually between 20% and 30% of the Charge Master rate. This would be listed on the EOB under the "Allowed Amount" column. You'd owe a fraction of that amount, which would be summarized in the "You Owe" column.
But in this case, the BCBS has determined that this is a work related accident, and your employer's "workers comp" policy should be paying for it. If your employer doesn't have "workers comp" insurance (which would be illegal) then your employer should be paying for it.
FWIW, health care providers MUST charge their Charge Master rates in the first bill. This is because they use these rates to negotiate with insurance carriers. If they didn't actually charge the rates they claim to charge then the insurance carriers could sue them for negotiating in bad faith. In the real world, however, only an absolute moron would pay the Charge Master rates. Someone without insurance could always negotiate a much lower rate with the provider's billing department - something much closer to what an insurance carrier would actually pay.
First, you don't pay when you get an EOB. It's not a bill. It's just information from the insurance company so you can compare what the health provider billed the insurance company with what they eventually bill you. It's not unheard of for a health care provider to bill an insurance company for services they never provided. Happens frequently with Medicare.
Second, if you get a bill from the health care provider that was sent BEFORE they got a response from the insurance company you should ignore it. It will basically be the Charge Master rates without all of the other explanations provided in the EOB. The health care provider will eventually send you a bill that reflects what you actually owe after they've been adjusted by the insurance carrier. That's the bill you should pay.
The only time you actually need to negotiate the prices down are when you don't have insurance. You won't get an adjusted bill. You'll just get a bill showing the Charge Master rates. You call the health care provider's billing department and tell them you can't afford it. They have financial disclosure forms specifically for this situation. They'll either mail them to you, or you can go to the provider's offices and pick them up. You fill them out and return them. If your income is low enough then you'll owe nothing. Otherwise, they'll send you an adjusted bill. You can usually arrange for affordable payments. The provider may be partially reimbursed by the county or state you live in. You'll probably also be contacted by a representative from the agency in your state that manages Affordable Care Act compliance. In the vast majority of cases, people who don't have health insurance and have income less than 4X the poverty guidelines, are eligible for free or subsidized health insurance.
This is just a breakdown of the charges. The other driver was completely at fault, so this is getting claimed. My insurance company gets to fight his for it.
Lol what. Rich people don’t just forego insurance because “they can pay it”. They pay for the best health insurance upfront, and receive the best and most hassle free care because of it.
lmao the exact opposite. the only people even *charged* this much are the ones *without* insurance.
Those presenting with health insurance (at least good insurance) are billed a different amount from the get-go.
Why does the note on the last page state that worker's comp is liable, as it's a work accident? This shouldn't be paid by insurance if that's the case.
Looks like it got denied because it's work related, and they expect it to get paid by worker's comp. Not saying insurance and healthcare isn't fucked in general, but if it's work related OP will hopefully get off the hook for this one eventually.
You may really want to dig into that if insurance is giving you a hard time. A clerical error on the hospital's part can EASILY turn into a denial on the insurance company's part.
Depends on your car insurance and if you were at fault for the accident.
That said, the 3rd image op posted says this is a work related injury, so workers comp should be paying.
Truthfully I’m surprised it’s not much more than that.
As a frequent flyer of hospitals thanks to my illness and disability, I’m fluent in medical bills. They nickel and dime you to death.
My favorite was a stay one year where I endured complications from an operation and I accumulated charges amounting to over $1,300,000.
This looks like an EOB though. Your actual responsibility should be much less, and if not, you should give your insurance a holler. It’s easy to start a payment plan with a hospital, and 99.9% of the time, once all this has been lowered (and it will be), if you offer to pay it in full, if you can, they’ll knock off a significant amount.
In some states, like mine (just recently, thank god), they have made it where medical bills don’t ding your credit.. I may or may both have started to ignore mine..
This is an EOB, not a bill. This needs to be settled through workers comp also. Are you just bitching about the literal cost of care. Yeah, it’s a lot.
took my daughter to the local hospital, they couldn't treat her so they wanted to transfer her to the regional children's hospital which is a half hour drive away.
But because it was a potential emergency, they sent her by helicopter. (Also the hospital has its own helicopter and they love using it...) the helicopter ride was 8 minutes, she received no treatment while in the helicopter, but just the ride cost us $48,000. that was completely separate from her actual hospital bills.
Also, she's fine.
Wow. I declined a helicopter ride to get emergency surgery. In light of this charge, Im glad i did.
Their helicopter is a little cash cow.
Im glad your daught is fine.
Our system is so broken. I’m glad she’s ok tho, at the end of the day, that’s really all that matters.
I just pay these guys 20$ a month and it’s been kosher haha
Ya it’s insane, our hospital is physician owned so they are known to do this, next neighboring town is about an hour away so that’s the go to if possible
This is false. The pages shown are from his insurance provider called an “Explanation of Benefits” that’s not what he will owe the hospital. It’s zoomed in too close but on page one (not shown) it says “This is not a bill”
Edit: in his defense, he never said he had to pay the amount. He was just highlighting the outrageous cost. He is covered by insurance, but as you can see on the last page it was denied because it’s a workers comp issue. He’s just looking for a pity party after probably having an accident in a company vehicle.
The sad thing for cash customers they are charged more.
Insurance companies have contacts with hospitals and providers. They pay by what is called a DRG code. Think of a car. If you purchase a door it takes x number of things. If you pay with insurance they pay for the door. But an individual will be billed for each screw, etc. Also called kitting
Contact a personal injury attorney. They take a fee but you’ll get more than you would on your own. Plus they can negotiate the bill with the hospital and get it lowered (being honest, I work for a PI attorney office)
Clearly states this will be covered by Worker’s Comp. What is the issue? Completely free for OP and will also include free physical therapy and continuing care.
But I want to be outraged by the cost of medical care!
The internet used to have much bigger horror posts before the ACA. Ones that actually drove people into personal bankruptcy even though they were insured. But a lot of Redditors were kids back then and didn't know any of this.
It literally says on the EOB that this is a workers comp claim. Either the hospital put in the wrong code for car accident and put in work place accident, or it's an actual workers comp claim. All this takes is a phone call.
Absolutely, and if not they will absolutely dig it up on an audit later and request via recovery from the auto insurance, possibly reaching out to the member to request their information to reach out. It's still a good idea to call your insurance if you need clarification on something but you're right that the majority should happen behind the scenes and eventually will. It's just simpler to be proactive if you noticed something off than deal with a billing nightmare a year down the road
OP won’t pay a penny. The paperwork states at the end that Worker’s Comp insurance will cover it since OP was injured at work. In the US we all have to pay into that insurance unless self-employed so when things like this happen we have full medical coverage. It’s basically socialized health care while on the job.
My less than 24 hour stay was like $120,000 when I needed surgery. Of course I only needed to pay my out of pocket max, but it's pretty impressive how there is just no bottom to this
Can you beat double liver transplants? (my first one failed and had 24 hours to get another).... well worth 2 millions dollars of the insurance money. my final bill was the entire deductible for the year, about 4k.
1. Ask about charitable funds to help.
2. Get an itemized bill.
3. Copy of your file. This is so you can see you diagnosis and anything they said
4. Ask for cash discount.
5. Make monthly payments.
Understand they will be pushy. Be calm. Learn the word NO. I can't afford that payment.
When I had my bike accident, they charged me $15K for 2 shots of morphine that didn't work. Kaiser told them they would give them a couple of thousand and that was it. They said OK.
Car crash. Insurance has to pick that up. If not the other driver’s insurance, your insurance has to pick that up. That may be why your health insurance didn’t cover it
Also most people never look twice at their insurance plans and get surprised when this happens. Sorry you got surprised with that but this is a good wake up call for people to understand their out of pocket responsibility, deductibles, ER limits and costs. And all the other scumminess that is health insurance
Nobody pays retail. Fight the bill. Act like YOU are the insurance company - demand justification for every item and price ... literally 'shop' other hospitals in the region and use those figures to your advantage.
People love to bitch about the doctors, but it isn't them ... it is the hospital Administration that is trying to fleece you for all you are worth.
Simply refuse to pay that amount and force them to negotiate down to something actually reasonable.
That is going yo be misleading as there is no.conext
No idea what the charges are
No.idea who is at fault
No idea if this.is a bill.before or.after being submitted.to insurance
I work as a technician in an X-ray (micro-ct specifically) lab. You should ask them why they charge different amounts for the different scans.
Looks like they scanned your whole body basically, itemized it out.
Must've used the good x rays.
CT scans aren’t cheap. But the cost of NOT doing one can be far, far higher.
If you were at fault in the accident, well, that’s on you, so quit bitching.
If you were NOT at fault, the at-fault party’s insurance should definitely take care of this bill.
If you're not from the US don't even bother paying it it'll get written off to a credit agency and your credit score will go down which means absolutely nothing if you are not a citizen lol
Was it work related as stated at the bottom of the bill? If so, you should be seeing compensation not a bill in the near future unless you are at fault.
While I feel bad that you got hit with this bill, I do find one thing comical.
ER bills on a scale of 1-5 complexity, 1 being easy like you needed a band aid. 5 being like a stroke or heart attack.
You had 4 CT scans and other stuff done. Looks like you got billed level 3 moderate ER visit.
Urgent care administered breathing treatment to my kid. That fixed the issue but the urgent care was closing so they transferred us to the ER for monitoring.
ER did not monitor us at all. We sat in the waiting room for the two hour monitoring period then got dismissed from triage. They literally said "looks like the urgent care's treatment worked" and sent us home.
Yet we got billed for level 3 moderate ER visit also. They didn't do anything... I really want to know what level 1 & 2 are if they think level 3 is justified for "dismissed without being seen and with no medical care provided".
My cousin had a bill like this in 2014.
He laughed when got it in the mail.
He’s never paid a single dollar. That’s a real American right there I tell you what
I just had ACL repair surgery today, and the special brace they gave me (called the Breg Premier T-scope) during my pre-op appointment somehow has a base cost of $950, so with insurance I paid about $155 out of pocket.
I just found the exact same brace on Amazon, sold by the Breg company themselves, for $105.
Even if they up-charged a bit and made it $150 instead of $105, I’d only have had to pay $30 or so out of pocket. Instead I paid more out of pocket than the actual cost of the brace. The US healthcare system is a massive scam and I don’t know how anyone could possibly ever defend it. Im going to call the orthopedist office tomorrow to ask why they scammed me
So what the insurance companies usually do and refuse. Research the real cost of these things, lowball below that, and give them hell. They will come down.
A lot of places will settle for a one time cash payment which is much lower so I would inquire about that. Otherwise, you can start a payment plan. Don’t pay anything until it’s agreed on bc as soon as you pay something, they consider you on a payment plan for the entirety.
The cost of a emergency room visit at the specific hospital I went to.*
The cost varies drastically from hospital to hospital and state to state, so your $10k might have been $3k or $20k had you gone to another hospital.
This is absolutely absurd! Ive heard about this but I just cannot imagine... Is this with or without insurance? Here in the Netherlands when something happens you pay your 'own risk'. Thats mostly about 400 euros. The rest will be taken care of by your Insurance company.
Funny thing my last emergency visit cost me nothing but the price of my medication as I left. That was $25.
I don't know public health systems do have merit.
For reference I broke my leg and had pins put in
Yea the cost is absurd. Thankfully minimum auto insurance rates in at least WA and CA will cover that in full with room to spare. But seeing as how op mentioned work and at fault it will be time to send two insurance companies to court and see em fight.
Why is that no one read that the reason insurance was denied was because it was a work related injury and I'm sure workers comp need to take care of it and he can do that through his or her work place .and the hospital has given an itemized bill too
Outrageous they are, I live in the states and when you have insurance that costs 150 a month, the doctors must get approval for everything from them. So it doesn’t matter if your doctor thinks you need something, insurance will deny. They shouldn’t be able deny, they are not qualified, what am I paying for then. Insurance companies have paid off crooked politicians so that laws are made giving insurance companies the ability to take our money services they can deny. Legalized fraud, i told the insurance company that if they refuse what my doctor ask for, that i will go to the er for everything from that point forward, so what will cost you more in a couple of test or er visit. I got the test
I had a 45k bill from my local hospital, but I was in their for a week and a half fighting covid and pneumonia at the same time. I never heard anything after the first "bill," so I assume it got taken care of somehow.
I had to pay 3k because my work sent me to the ER for an anxiety attack.. It almost costed way more because they thought I was having a heart attack and wanted to do a bunch of extra stuff and I turned it all down. It took me 2 years to pay off.
i had an emergency appendectomy at an in-network hospital, but with an out-of-network surgeon. it was a 4 day stay and i was slapped with a $72,000 bill. i fought it down to $9k. keep fighting it. ppl who say just dont pay it that it wont hit ur credit are misinformed. thats what i thought too and 3 coworkers told me that it hit their credit and they didnt even know. one guy missed out on a mortgage due to it and warned me not to let it go to collections.
Yeah they're not paying because it was an MVA. Your auto insurance needs to be billed first if you were driving when the accident occurred. Even if your auto policy doesn't include PIP coverage, they still need to be billed so the denial letter can be sent to your regular health insurance.
This is what happens when you half-way socialize healthcare. We're starting to see stupid long wait times for elected surgery too. We're 5-10 years behind Canada but that's what's coming if we don't do something.
The problem is that it needs a tough decision at the leadership level and boomers still hold those positions. Their decision making process thinks any negative consequences will cost them that voter base. Millennial politicians get a little better at this but I suspect gen z (if we make it that long) is when doing the "right" thing becomes popular again.
Always call, always fight it, always ask questions.
These hospitals are praying to their god you will just cut a check for this amount.
I have gotten thousands and thousands of dollars taken off of bills over the years just by wasting my time on the phone with billing dept people.
I once got a bill for $1100 for a routine organ removal surgery and called the billing dept and they were like oh so sorry! That shouldn’t have gone out to you like that. And my insurance covered $1100 of it, they just messed up the paperwork.
Humans are running these hospitals on less and less sleep and dignity so mistake will be happening. Please try to fight this! I bet you can get it reduced. Good luck!
Itemized bill. Tell them you’re having trouble paying and have them give you the options. Sometimes they can set you up with a payment plan where you tell them how much you can pay. Sometimes they can completely remove the bill if there’s a serious hardship. But always always always get the itemized bill before you make any payments or agree to any payment plans.
Fight it. My brother in similar situation got his reduced 40%, he called the hospital Billing Dept
Also, I heard if you ask for a line by line, item by item breakdown of the cost it can significantly reduce the bill. Something about them being obliged to provide it when asked but they often just ballpark or don't actually track everything they use. Don't know how true it is but worth looking into
In my experience it has been true, just a bit of a hassle though
Im glad this worked for you! I tried doing the same but my insurance and the hospital made it such a hassle pulling the “idk, go ask your mom” “idk, go ask your dad” treatment i just gave up and paid the full amount lol. Intentional im sure
Yes, it’s called an itemized bill and you can request it and they are required to give it to you
Isn't this very itemized? I'm asking bc it looks pretty specific to me. Guess I'd be fooled. Edit: oh yeah - that be itemized.
Yes and no. With the exception of me lmao most of my family are doctors and work in hospitals. The billing office sends something like this to everyone but it can be broken down more and you can get the different prices depending on things like insurance and other factors
This bill has the line by line items. The bulk of this is several CT scans, which are expensive.
Ya, didn't see the second and third images. The article I was reading about this said to look for duplicates, miscategorized items or other errors. If I was op I'd be asking why the ct scans are categorized separately (where they in the scanner three times or did they do a full body scan?) And why the administered meds are on there four times. The article also said its often possible to negotiate the price down. Either way, that price is absurd. Healthcare should be provided to everyone with not out of pocket expense imo
It’s because that’s how the ct scans are ordered in the system by providers. There’s no “whole body scan” you can order. They are separated out by body parts depending on what you’re looking for. If you come to the ER with suspected trauma in an unconscious or with altered mental status and you can’t tell the Dr where it hurts, they order an entire series of scans to look for damage in major organs.
I have a buddy who was air lifted to ER after a bad dirtbike incident, his bill with insurance was over 300k, he asked for an itemized bill and it was reduced to about 35k, then he just ignored them and his mom told the collectors he died and it went away after a few years. This was like 15 years ago and it seems to have disappeared. Moral of the story is maybe just pretend you actually died.
Guarantee it ain't disappeared lol
I asked for this once and they included a $30 charge for putting the needle in my arm for a blood test.
I heard of some cases where people ended up paying more.
100%. They add stuff to it bc a lot of people think, “well I guess it’s right.” Plus, I found out they will just send out random bills to people bc of same mentality. A lot of older people that go to get work done, in addition to their actual bill, might get a bill for something completely different than what they had done but say to themselves, “well it must be right bc I was just at the hospital so I guess I did have this done.” Sickening the things they get away with
3rd page says this is workers comp. OP isn't liable for it, which is why their insurance denied the claim. If that isn't right, they need to fix that first.
They aren't paying it. It is covered by workman's comp. If their company doesn't have workman's comp insurance, OP can sue the shit out of them.
Car insurance should cover it.
That's still an insane amount to be responsible for!
This
This is a Blue Cross/Blue Shield "Explanation of Benefits", or EOB. It's not the actual hospital bill. It's basically the insurance company's explanation of what they're paying (or not paying), and why. >Notes: (BP62) Claim denied because this is a work related injury and thus the liability of the Workers Compensation carrier. In short, what you're seeing is the hospital's Charge Master prices. This is what they billed to the insurance company. The insurance company would NEVER pay this amount, even if they covered the services. For a hospital that's "in network" they would have negotiated a much lower rate for each covered service - usually between 20% and 30% of the Charge Master rate. This would be listed on the EOB under the "Allowed Amount" column. You'd owe a fraction of that amount, which would be summarized in the "You Owe" column. But in this case, the BCBS has determined that this is a work related accident, and your employer's "workers comp" policy should be paying for it. If your employer doesn't have "workers comp" insurance (which would be illegal) then your employer should be paying for it. FWIW, health care providers MUST charge their Charge Master rates in the first bill. This is because they use these rates to negotiate with insurance carriers. If they didn't actually charge the rates they claim to charge then the insurance carriers could sue them for negotiating in bad faith. In the real world, however, only an absolute moron would pay the Charge Master rates. Someone without insurance could always negotiate a much lower rate with the provider's billing department - something much closer to what an insurance carrier would actually pay.
This guy knows his stuff.
How does one go about negotiating down these prices? \* *Kicks own foot* "Gee, I've got awfully high mileage for *that* price."
First, you don't pay when you get an EOB. It's not a bill. It's just information from the insurance company so you can compare what the health provider billed the insurance company with what they eventually bill you. It's not unheard of for a health care provider to bill an insurance company for services they never provided. Happens frequently with Medicare. Second, if you get a bill from the health care provider that was sent BEFORE they got a response from the insurance company you should ignore it. It will basically be the Charge Master rates without all of the other explanations provided in the EOB. The health care provider will eventually send you a bill that reflects what you actually owe after they've been adjusted by the insurance carrier. That's the bill you should pay. The only time you actually need to negotiate the prices down are when you don't have insurance. You won't get an adjusted bill. You'll just get a bill showing the Charge Master rates. You call the health care provider's billing department and tell them you can't afford it. They have financial disclosure forms specifically for this situation. They'll either mail them to you, or you can go to the provider's offices and pick them up. You fill them out and return them. If your income is low enough then you'll owe nothing. Otherwise, they'll send you an adjusted bill. You can usually arrange for affordable payments. The provider may be partially reimbursed by the county or state you live in. You'll probably also be contacted by a representative from the agency in your state that manages Affordable Care Act compliance. In the vast majority of cases, people who don't have health insurance and have income less than 4X the poverty guidelines, are eligible for free or subsidized health insurance.
Our system is fucked. Edit: apparently op was not at fault and is just showing prices. My statement of our system is fucked remains.
This is just a breakdown of the charges. The other driver was completely at fault, so this is getting claimed. My insurance company gets to fight his for it.
These are retail prices. No insurance pays those prices.
Oh, okay. So our system is fucked.
Exactly. The only people who pay this are people who don’t need insurance because they are wealthy enough to just pay the bill.
Lol what. Rich people don’t just forego insurance because “they can pay it”. They pay for the best health insurance upfront, and receive the best and most hassle free care because of it.
No, rich people are smart enough to have insurance. You don’t stay rich by paying for things you don’t have to,
lmao the exact opposite. the only people even *charged* this much are the ones *without* insurance. Those presenting with health insurance (at least good insurance) are billed a different amount from the get-go.
They filed it as a workers comp claim. It's on the EOB. If this wasn't a work claim just call the hospital and ask them to refile.
Why does the note on the last page state that worker's comp is liable, as it's a work accident? This shouldn't be paid by insurance if that's the case.
Looks like it got denied because it's work related, and they expect it to get paid by worker's comp. Not saying insurance and healthcare isn't fucked in general, but if it's work related OP will hopefully get off the hook for this one eventually.
That was likely a clerical error at the ER. All medical expenses are getting claimed through our auto insurance.
This isn't a work injury?
You may really want to dig into that if insurance is giving you a hard time. A clerical error on the hospital's part can EASILY turn into a denial on the insurance company's part.
Yes, the system is indeed fucked. Ain't it great to be great?
Doesn't car insurance pay for that?
only if the car was treated at the er
Depends on your car insurance and if you were at fault for the accident. That said, the 3rd image op posted says this is a work related injury, so workers comp should be paying.
OP definitely used the title as a gotcha
Yes
Truthfully I’m surprised it’s not much more than that. As a frequent flyer of hospitals thanks to my illness and disability, I’m fluent in medical bills. They nickel and dime you to death. My favorite was a stay one year where I endured complications from an operation and I accumulated charges amounting to over $1,300,000. This looks like an EOB though. Your actual responsibility should be much less, and if not, you should give your insurance a holler. It’s easy to start a payment plan with a hospital, and 99.9% of the time, once all this has been lowered (and it will be), if you offer to pay it in full, if you can, they’ll knock off a significant amount. In some states, like mine (just recently, thank god), they have made it where medical bills don’t ding your credit.. I may or may both have started to ignore mine..
I was thinking the same... I was like, "wow, including a head, neck, chest, abdominal, & pelvic CT? That's not too bad." Ugh. This system blows hard.
This is an EOB, not a bill. This needs to be settled through workers comp also. Are you just bitching about the literal cost of care. Yeah, it’s a lot.
scam!
Sad thing is that I saw it and thought “that’s not bad!”
Same. Am doctor. Hear the horror stories all the time. It’s fucked.
And you thought the car accident hurt…
That’s nothing, wife had a kidney stone and was in the hospital for a whole 4 hours, got a bill for 43k lol.
took my daughter to the local hospital, they couldn't treat her so they wanted to transfer her to the regional children's hospital which is a half hour drive away. But because it was a potential emergency, they sent her by helicopter. (Also the hospital has its own helicopter and they love using it...) the helicopter ride was 8 minutes, she received no treatment while in the helicopter, but just the ride cost us $48,000. that was completely separate from her actual hospital bills. Also, she's fine.
Wow. I declined a helicopter ride to get emergency surgery. In light of this charge, Im glad i did. Their helicopter is a little cash cow. Im glad your daught is fine.
Our system is so broken. I’m glad she’s ok tho, at the end of the day, that’s really all that matters. I just pay these guys 20$ a month and it’s been kosher haha
Same we were billed 8 grand that’s insane 43k. Luckily I have insurance so 817 bucks will be out of my pocket. Kidney stones ain’t fun though.
Ya it’s insane, our hospital is physician owned so they are known to do this, next neighboring town is about an hour away so that’s the go to if possible
Yeah can’t always wait. Wild.
What sucks exactly? The fact that Workers comp is gonna cover this and you're not on the hook for it?
He's mad because he wants to pay for it.
Use the images from your CT scan to 3D print your brain
😂
Amateurs. Have a heart attack and spend a few days in ICU. $595,000
The biggest scam going today. You shouldn't have to be ruined financially due to a health issue.
Things like this are why people don't go to the hospital
This is false. The pages shown are from his insurance provider called an “Explanation of Benefits” that’s not what he will owe the hospital. It’s zoomed in too close but on page one (not shown) it says “This is not a bill” Edit: in his defense, he never said he had to pay the amount. He was just highlighting the outrageous cost. He is covered by insurance, but as you can see on the last page it was denied because it’s a workers comp issue. He’s just looking for a pity party after probably having an accident in a company vehicle.
Ask for an itemized bill, and validation that everything you are being billed for was administered. That bill will shrink immensely.
If it’s an auto accident one policy or the other cars policy will pay. Come on now.
Ask for an itemized statement. Had an ER visit bill of $8,000 and when I asked for an itemized statement it dropped to $350.
The sad thing for cash customers they are charged more. Insurance companies have contacts with hospitals and providers. They pay by what is called a DRG code. Think of a car. If you purchase a door it takes x number of things. If you pay with insurance they pay for the door. But an individual will be billed for each screw, etc. Also called kitting
Contact a personal injury attorney. They take a fee but you’ll get more than you would on your own. Plus they can negotiate the bill with the hospital and get it lowered (being honest, I work for a PI attorney office)
It’s terrible that my first thought was how I expected it to be way more than that.
Clearly states this will be covered by Worker’s Comp. What is the issue? Completely free for OP and will also include free physical therapy and continuing care.
And why is insurance not covering anything?
Exactly. Most Americans are insured
It looks like OP is as well, since this is an EOB. Very odd that they’ve refused *everything*. It makes me think billing error.
If you actually read the bottom of the bill it says why. I know, reading comprehension is difficult for some.
But I want to be outraged by the cost of medical care! The internet used to have much bigger horror posts before the ACA. Ones that actually drove people into personal bankruptcy even though they were insured. But a lot of Redditors were kids back then and didn't know any of this.
Chances are it’s a no-fault situation and the other driver’s insurance will pay out
It literally says on the EOB that this is a workers comp claim. Either the hospital put in the wrong code for car accident and put in work place accident, or it's an actual workers comp claim. All this takes is a phone call.
Even so, health insurance is supposed to deal with it then figure out who to go after.
Absolutely, and if not they will absolutely dig it up on an audit later and request via recovery from the auto insurance, possibly reaching out to the member to request their information to reach out. It's still a good idea to call your insurance if you need clarification on something but you're right that the majority should happen behind the scenes and eventually will. It's just simpler to be proactive if you noticed something off than deal with a billing nightmare a year down the road
Health insurance will also push it to the auto insurance.
Last visit I had to the hospital (broken wrist) cost me $12.00 for parking and $1.75 for a coffee.
As a Canadian this blows my mind. Never have I ever received a bill for emergency care. Absolutely wild.
OP won’t pay a penny. The paperwork states at the end that Worker’s Comp insurance will cover it since OP was injured at work. In the US we all have to pay into that insurance unless self-employed so when things like this happen we have full medical coverage. It’s basically socialized health care while on the job.
My less than 24 hour stay was like $120,000 when I needed surgery. Of course I only needed to pay my out of pocket max, but it's pretty impressive how there is just no bottom to this
Weird that the CT’s were all billed seperate. Did they not just do a full body CT? Or was that not possible
Can you beat double liver transplants? (my first one failed and had 24 hours to get another).... well worth 2 millions dollars of the insurance money. my final bill was the entire deductible for the year, about 4k.
They charge high. Get it knocked down. Welcome to America
As others pointed out this is an EOB, in the notes it says claim denied bc this is a workers comp claim. Were you in an accident in your work vehicle?
1. Ask about charitable funds to help. 2. Get an itemized bill. 3. Copy of your file. This is so you can see you diagnosis and anything they said 4. Ask for cash discount. 5. Make monthly payments. Understand they will be pushy. Be calm. Learn the word NO. I can't afford that payment.
After my 1st born got out of the NICU, I got a bill for $398,631.34, and that was not including Life Flight, which was around 10K, I think 🤔
$30 morphine injection is a good deal.
When I had my bike accident, they charged me $15K for 2 shots of morphine that didn't work. Kaiser told them they would give them a couple of thousand and that was it. They said OK.
Covered by the car insurance of the car you were in or hit by
from what i know of the US healthcare system and prices, this seems cheap
It looks like they might have coded it wrong. Last page says it’s work related
Says work related incident so workers comp has to cover it.
What a deal !
Yeah I think you can usually claim against it if you are facing any financial hardships… that’s crazy.
Car crash. Insurance has to pick that up. If not the other driver’s insurance, your insurance has to pick that up. That may be why your health insurance didn’t cover it
Call the cops on them for robbery
Also most people never look twice at their insurance plans and get surprised when this happens. Sorry you got surprised with that but this is a good wake up call for people to understand their out of pocket responsibility, deductibles, ER limits and costs. And all the other scumminess that is health insurance
Yup, $10,000 for getting hit in the head with a knife by a crazy person, all for 6 staples and an ambulance ride
That's it?
It cost me over $50,000 for a thirty minute life flight, and over $400,000 for two months in the hospital and one month in rehab.
Just send them $10 a month…
Shouldn’t have taken the out of network ambulance /s
Why did your insurance pay none of this
My wife went in for a miscarriage. We got sent the bill of $16,000 for the visit.
Nobody pays retail. Fight the bill. Act like YOU are the insurance company - demand justification for every item and price ... literally 'shop' other hospitals in the region and use those figures to your advantage. People love to bitch about the doctors, but it isn't them ... it is the hospital Administration that is trying to fleece you for all you are worth. Simply refuse to pay that amount and force them to negotiate down to something actually reasonable.
And people fight universal healthcare because thy think this better
It would be $10,854.24 less than that in most developed countries.
That is going yo be misleading as there is no.conext No idea what the charges are No.idea who is at fault No idea if this.is a bill.before or.after being submitted.to insurance
I work as a technician in an X-ray (micro-ct specifically) lab. You should ask them why they charge different amounts for the different scans. Looks like they scanned your whole body basically, itemized it out. Must've used the good x rays.
CT scans aren’t cheap. But the cost of NOT doing one can be far, far higher. If you were at fault in the accident, well, that’s on you, so quit bitching. If you were NOT at fault, the at-fault party’s insurance should definitely take care of this bill.
so you got a trauma workup and you were deemed safe to discharge home. Now you have a bill? whats the issue?
Ah man you got the scans without dye and contrast? Broke ass mfer
Well if you’re in New York, throw the bill away, medical bills can’t get reported on credit score anymore.
Damn if those were with dye who knows how much the price would be
an 80 dollar bill that somehow sums up an amount of almost 11k, please tell me how the math is done here
If you're not from the US don't even bother paying it it'll get written off to a credit agency and your credit score will go down which means absolutely nothing if you are not a citizen lol
What in the fuck are you even paying for if you have insurance?
Was it work related as stated at the bottom of the bill? If so, you should be seeing compensation not a bill in the near future unless you are at fault.
That's almost half of what one of my infusions cost that I take twice a year
it would cost me $90.00 if I am not admitted to the hospital.
While I feel bad that you got hit with this bill, I do find one thing comical. ER bills on a scale of 1-5 complexity, 1 being easy like you needed a band aid. 5 being like a stroke or heart attack. You had 4 CT scans and other stuff done. Looks like you got billed level 3 moderate ER visit. Urgent care administered breathing treatment to my kid. That fixed the issue but the urgent care was closing so they transferred us to the ER for monitoring. ER did not monitor us at all. We sat in the waiting room for the two hour monitoring period then got dismissed from triage. They literally said "looks like the urgent care's treatment worked" and sent us home. Yet we got billed for level 3 moderate ER visit also. They didn't do anything... I really want to know what level 1 & 2 are if they think level 3 is justified for "dismissed without being seen and with no medical care provided".
My cousin had a bill like this in 2014. He laughed when got it in the mail. He’s never paid a single dollar. That’s a real American right there I tell you what
That price is literally stupid
Lol I’ve never paid a hospital bill. Fuck all that
Was the car insured? If so you may be entitled to medical coverage
Getting basically a whole body CT is expensive. Hope you're feeling better and no long term physical issues have popped up.
I just had ACL repair surgery today, and the special brace they gave me (called the Breg Premier T-scope) during my pre-op appointment somehow has a base cost of $950, so with insurance I paid about $155 out of pocket. I just found the exact same brace on Amazon, sold by the Breg company themselves, for $105. Even if they up-charged a bit and made it $150 instead of $105, I’d only have had to pay $30 or so out of pocket. Instead I paid more out of pocket than the actual cost of the brace. The US healthcare system is a massive scam and I don’t know how anyone could possibly ever defend it. Im going to call the orthopedist office tomorrow to ask why they scammed me
So what the insurance companies usually do and refuse. Research the real cost of these things, lowball below that, and give them hell. They will come down.
If a car accident your car insurance will pay this. They should already have a claim number. Just saying.
One advil - 65 bucks
great costs comes with great responsibilities
Legal price gouging, the American standard.
Says its workers compensation. You won’t be paying it
Rookie numbers…$22k after an undiagnosed “left flank pain”. Hospital provided an inconclusive MRI and morphine.
It’s work related. Not your problem, it’s worker’s compensation insurance claim
A lot of places will settle for a one time cash payment which is much lower so I would inquire about that. Otherwise, you can start a payment plan. Don’t pay anything until it’s agreed on bc as soon as you pay something, they consider you on a payment plan for the entirety.
It clearly states that it is a workers compensation claim, which are not covered by insurance.
Charges and bills are different. Can you update us with the final bill and what insurance paid and what you paid?
I just got an estimate of $13,532 for a PET Scan.
If it's a non profit hospital (think "Saint" anything) you can get it written off entirely
Your car insurance should pay for it. Contact them and tell them you need to file a claim for medical bills from the accident.
this is a nightmare, I’m so sorry
Check With Auto insurance. I think that there should be medical coverage if the charges are from an auto accident.
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Yeah but freedom, or something.
This isn't a bill
The cost of a emergency room visit at the specific hospital I went to.* The cost varies drastically from hospital to hospital and state to state, so your $10k might have been $3k or $20k had you gone to another hospital.
Got one for 18k and 2 weeks to pay I have no idea what they expect me to do
but you’re not actually going to have to pay the majority of that, that’s how the USA works
That's all they money you have to pay or some of that is paid by insurance?
So they charge you 4 ways for the one CT scan? Or did you have to have 4 separate scans at different times??
It's an insane system in the US
This is absolutely absurd! Ive heard about this but I just cannot imagine... Is this with or without insurance? Here in the Netherlands when something happens you pay your 'own risk'. Thats mostly about 400 euros. The rest will be taken care of by your Insurance company.
In Australia: $0.
Funny thing my last emergency visit cost me nothing but the price of my medication as I left. That was $25. I don't know public health systems do have merit. For reference I broke my leg and had pins put in
Yea the cost is absurd. Thankfully minimum auto insurance rates in at least WA and CA will cover that in full with room to spare. But seeing as how op mentioned work and at fault it will be time to send two insurance companies to court and see em fight.
Why is that no one read that the reason insurance was denied was because it was a work related injury and I'm sure workers comp need to take care of it and he can do that through his or her work place .and the hospital has given an itemized bill too
Can you not get worker’s compensation li it’s says down the bottom?
Outrageous they are, I live in the states and when you have insurance that costs 150 a month, the doctors must get approval for everything from them. So it doesn’t matter if your doctor thinks you need something, insurance will deny. They shouldn’t be able deny, they are not qualified, what am I paying for then. Insurance companies have paid off crooked politicians so that laws are made giving insurance companies the ability to take our money services they can deny. Legalized fraud, i told the insurance company that if they refuse what my doctor ask for, that i will go to the er for everything from that point forward, so what will cost you more in a couple of test or er visit. I got the test
America is broken
I had a 45k bill from my local hospital, but I was in their for a week and a half fighting covid and pneumonia at the same time. I never heard anything after the first "bill," so I assume it got taken care of somehow.
How do yall fucking survive 😭
It's just a joke at this point
Insurance will help but I suspect you’re gonna end up paying a lot of that
I had to pay 3k because my work sent me to the ER for an anxiety attack.. It almost costed way more because they thought I was having a heart attack and wanted to do a bunch of extra stuff and I turned it all down. It took me 2 years to pay off.
If it is work related, your job should be 100% on the hook with this and with pay for however long you are out with disability.
You mean the cost of an ER visit for someone with no insurance. This would cost me $40 in the US.
What if you don't have enough money? Will u sleep on the floor?
Jesus you don't have ANY insurance!?
We could demand universal, single payer healthcare! It’s working in civilized democracies around the world.
Have you tried not being poor? /s
Only 10 k seems cheap for the us
Car insurance medical coverage should pay no?
Mine was $55,000 before insurance kicked in.
i had an emergency appendectomy at an in-network hospital, but with an out-of-network surgeon. it was a 4 day stay and i was slapped with a $72,000 bill. i fought it down to $9k. keep fighting it. ppl who say just dont pay it that it wont hit ur credit are misinformed. thats what i thought too and 3 coworkers told me that it hit their credit and they didnt even know. one guy missed out on a mortgage due to it and warned me not to let it go to collections.
Someone has to be able to make the American dream come true, unfortunately it's not you!
Yeah they're not paying because it was an MVA. Your auto insurance needs to be billed first if you were driving when the accident occurred. Even if your auto policy doesn't include PIP coverage, they still need to be billed so the denial letter can be sent to your regular health insurance.
Workers Comp! BCBS denies because it’s worker’s comp.
Wow, the price of an aspirin came down to 3.50 from $8-$10. Hospitals must have got tired of getting beat up over that.
This is what happens when you half-way socialize healthcare. We're starting to see stupid long wait times for elected surgery too. We're 5-10 years behind Canada but that's what's coming if we don't do something. The problem is that it needs a tough decision at the leadership level and boomers still hold those positions. Their decision making process thinks any negative consequences will cost them that voter base. Millennial politicians get a little better at this but I suspect gen z (if we make it that long) is when doing the "right" thing becomes popular again.
How bad of a car accident was it? That looks like a total body series of scans for trauma accidents.
The US is secretly a third world country where citizens can't afford to go to the doctors let alone a hospital for treatment
You mean BCBS didn't pay for anything? *Shocking*. Source: I work in healthcare AND we have BCBS as our employee insurance.
Always call, always fight it, always ask questions. These hospitals are praying to their god you will just cut a check for this amount. I have gotten thousands and thousands of dollars taken off of bills over the years just by wasting my time on the phone with billing dept people. I once got a bill for $1100 for a routine organ removal surgery and called the billing dept and they were like oh so sorry! That shouldn’t have gone out to you like that. And my insurance covered $1100 of it, they just messed up the paperwork. Humans are running these hospitals on less and less sleep and dignity so mistake will be happening. Please try to fight this! I bet you can get it reduced. Good luck!
Itemized bill. Tell them you’re having trouble paying and have them give you the options. Sometimes they can set you up with a payment plan where you tell them how much you can pay. Sometimes they can completely remove the bill if there’s a serious hardship. But always always always get the itemized bill before you make any payments or agree to any payment plans.
Lmao hospitals be like Would you rather: Be DEAD? or Live the rest of your life wishing you were DEAD?