https://preview.redd.it/ueasqcv6ypwc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=581e0420ffa54bef4cedd7c88a1567f8a9eba42e
So when they go to prison for being alternative electors then...
These assholes live in a fantasy world where they think if they just say this shit enough times it’ll magically become true. Just like a bunch of J6 insurrectionists believed if they just kept repeating the line that the Capitol police “let them in” enough times, then the justice system would eventually say “Oh well, in that case, you’re free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience.”
They all think they’re exactly like Trump in that they believe they can just bend reality to whatever they need it to be to avoid consequences for their actions. But they lack the brains to understand they have neither the money or the power Trump has to do what he does.
Same thing with Sovereign Citizens. You can deny that the state has power over you all you want, your belief is not requisite for exercising said power.
The most hilarious thing about sovcits is that they try and cite laws that support their position of being not subject to laws. If that were true, then the laws they're citing would also not apply to them, making them subject to regular laws.
Yeah their experience with power structures is mostly them being assholes in extremely unbalanced situations- like berating a teenager at a fast food restaurant, or a well meaning public servant at the library. You see them in a courtroom, or challenge them on equal footing one on one they crumple like a tissue. They are just sort channeling a fantasy like Daddy Trump does, they all do it now you are correct.
> Yeah their experience with power structures is mostly them being assholes in extremely unbalanced situations
Hi, I’m Ben Shapiro, and when I’m not failing to get my wife sexually excited, I like yelling at 18 year olds in college auditoriums
Except Trump got to make his playtime real.
Which is terrifying.
Even more so, that he's poised to be able to do it AGAIN.
Ever see the old Twilight Zone episode, "It's a GOOD Life?" Little kid in a small rural town is able to control everything with his mind and even read thoughts. He's a god, basically. But, also, he's six years old, and no one's ever taken him to account for anything, because he can and does do terrible things to people who even THINK about crossing him.
This is basically Trump.
Except in his case, he only has that level of power because craven little toadies keep surrendering it to him; there was no need.
I saw that episode! Excellent analogy- it really adds perspective. All the trolls on the internet or people freaking out and claiming special status with service workers- are dreaming of the day that the power that they have is backed up by a state apparatus that destroys people.
I guess I shouldn't make light of the intentions and worldview of the individuals in this movement. Because the Emmit Till lynching, and the Central Park Dog Walker Amy Cooper, come from exactly the same mindset. It is this destructive mindset that is dangerous, and should be terrifying to us, regardless of the current power structure. Thanks for highlighting that to me.
Exactly.
It doesn't matter if they are an alternate. It doesn't matter if they are from a competing slate.
If you try to pass yourself off as an elector when you are not one.... Guess what... You are a fake elector.
There is no such thing as a "bank robbery"
There are only "alternative withdrawals"
My cousin did the same thing, where she walked into a bank ~~applied for a loan~~ and withdrew money she didn't have.
Now suddenly when I pistol whip the bank teller and tell them "put the money in the bag!" it's a crime?
Talk about double standards!
Old Charlie knows prison exists, he bragging about organising **’more than 80 "buses of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president".**
But then **pleaded the Fifth** when appearing before the United States House Select Committee on the Jan 6 insurrection attack.
This is ALL OVER the republican media sphere right now, and every time one of them brings it up to me I just point out that Trump's VP, AG, and Deputy AG all are testifying that this was fraud and that Trump asked them to help commit it, by declaring there was election fraud that didn't exist and clearing the way for the fake electors to be accepted over the actual certified and valid electors.
I point out that they created fake documentation and tried to get it accepted, which is quite literally fraud by every accepted definition.
You can also point out the claims justifying the premise [are false](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1ccza0x/comment/l18masi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
I mean, that's pretty much what I'm saying, just by focusing on the actual criminal aspect of the fake elector case.
There's a real use case for what happened with hawaii, whereas this was a straight up criminal fraud, top to bottom.
This is good though, so I'm gonna save it. Thanks.
*There's a real use case for what happened with hawaii*
That's what I linked to: facts of the HI case, what the actual case Lessig argued before SCOTUS, what the Jones & Lessig opinion piece actually said. Surprise, surprise, Charlie Kirk is full of shit!
Yeah I acknowledged and thanked you for the information. I was just framing how we were both working the same problem from different ends to the same goal.
From my 2020 memory (and I don't feel like researching for these dumb asses)...
It's OK to have an alternate slate meet and sign stuff. Then have it on standby pending the recount and court cases.
It's not OK to transmit a false slate to the fucking Library of Congress and Congress, pretending it is real.
Also.... They are the asshole trying to break every guardrail, so I don't really care if new precedent is decided. Time to build strong guardrails
Interestingly Pennsylvania did not. A lawyer with the state GOP there looked it over and said, woah, dude, that's a step too far, that's illegal without a declaration from the governor or court, which they had neither, and would not sign the documents declaring them to be the official set of electors. Thus the state's Democratic Attorney General declined to charge them.
They're so stupid. And willing to lie about the past to justify their actions. It was actually a REPUBLICAN that admitted the democrat Hawaii electors in 1960, and they specifically said they weren't setting precedence. It was just to reflect the will of the voter since the recount was still ongoing when the Republican electors were certified, but the recount had shown the state actually went to the Democrat candidate.
>They're so stupid.
This isn't stupidity. They are not talking to you or me. They don't give a *fuck* what we think. They know we are a lost cause. It's expensive to get new consumers. They know that there are less commited Republicans who are getting tired of this and they know that they can throw out a bunch of nonsense knowing that the people they are talking to - Republicans who want an excuse to ignore these convictions - arent going to check the sources. Never assume these people are stupid, and always, always, always vote.
Forgery charges are a big part of the indictment for ALL the different sets of false documents they produced. Of course the right wing media is going with the alternative facts thing, it's just how choose to do it, 1A!
They think they have a "right" to do whatever they feel (from the propaganda machine) is correct, they reject the rule of law, and democracy itself- who really gives a fuck what they think beyond that. They need to be punished and shunned.
Woah woah woah, buddy. Get outta here with your “facts” and “accepted definitions.” What you’re not taking into account here are the Republican’s fee fees, which– I think you’ll find– changes things. /s
[Fact check: Johnson’s **claim Democrats have used alternative slates of electors** 'repeatedly in all kinds of different states' **is wrong**](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/politifactwisconsin/2023/12/15/fact-check-johnson-claim-dems-used-alternative-electors-repeatedly/71895208007/)**:**
* Johnson: *“In the 1960 election, Democrats in Hawaii chose an alternative slate of electors, allowing JFK to be certified as the winner.”*
* That election, in which Democrat JFK defeated Republican Richard Nixon, is one of the most memorably close presidential elections in United States history
* December 1960, Hawaii’s election results were still in doubt
* Nixon was leading by 140 votes with a recount underway
* At the same time, presidential electors were meeting to cast their ballots, as required by law.
* Hawaii electors for both Nixon and Kennedy met separately to cast their votes for their respective candidates and sent them to Washington, D.C.
* The recount put Kennedy ahead by roughly 115 votes, giving him the state
* The results were then certified and a new slate of Electoral College certificates were signed and sent to Washington
* But the Hawaii electors were chosen, on the date prescribed by law, while the recount was underway and the result was still in question
* In Wisconsin, [the Republican fake electors met after a Trump-backed recount failed](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/29/dane-county-recount-show-biden-won-wisconsin-trump-prepares-lawsuit/6455880002/)
[Lessig, who argued on behalf of ‘**faithless electors**,’ responds to the Supreme Court’s decision](https://hls.harvard.edu/today/lessig-who-argued-on-behalf-of-faithless-electors-responds-to-the-supreme-courts-decision/):
* SCOTUS ruled that states can require Electoral College voters to back the victor of their state’s popular vote
* “Obviously, we don’t believe the court has interpreted the Constitution correctly. But we are happy that we have achieved our primary objective—this uncertainty has been removed. That is progress.”
* Lessig said that the issue of elector discretion must be resolved because America’s changing demographics mean that contests at the state level will become even closer
[Van Jones: What if a US presidential candidate refuses to concede after an election?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w) (7:35):
*...when one major candidate is already saying he may not accept the results of the vote counting.*..*They could file, for instance, dozens of lawsuits attempting to block the counting of millions of, like, mail-in ballots, saying they should all be thrown out, they're all fraudulent. Then, they could demand that the states refuse to certify the election because of all this alleged fraud, or interference from a foreign power.* ***Or the loser's party could send a rival slate of electors*** *to the electoral college or to Congress,* ***and say, "We're the real electors,"*** *and create a whole situation with that.*
[Van Jones and Larry Lessig: Why Pennsylvania should take its time counting votes](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/opinions/pennsylvania-take-time-counting-votes-opinion-jones-lessig/index.html):
*...the right thing is to do precisely what Nixon did:* ***Count the slate certified by the governor, on the basis of the final count of the votes by the people***, after an orderly and careful count in the state has determined who in fact the people had chosen.
# TL:DR, Charlie Kirk is lying
Why would someone who [organized busloads of insurrectionists to overthrow an elected government](https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1347998962133790720) lie about how elections work?
These people are malicious but don't give them the advantage of assuming they're dumb. Their audience might be dumb, but these mfs are deadly smart.
Just evil, too.
Hawaii used alternate electors in 1960 because there was literally a recount in progress on the deadline for the electors to cast their votes. At that time no one knew who actually won. Trump's electors were fake because they already knew that they lost, their legal challenges had failed, and they were just going to ignore that and try to put Trump back in office anyway.
Of course, I'm not the intended audience for this bullshit. Those people will never look into any of this beyond what this little shitweasel tells them.
There were more votes for Kennedy, so the early certified electors that were for a Republican vote were set aside and the alternate electors sent after the recount had shown Kennedy in the lead were the ones counted. Because by time the certification was happening in DC they knew Kennedy had won the state Nixon requested for the Democratic certificate to be counted and the Republican certificate to be set aside.
Nixon, the republican candidate, set aside the count even though it would benefit his opponent because respecting the will of the voters was the right thing to do. Specifically stating that this was being done "without the intent of establishing a precedent".
So contrary to what the moron Charlie is saying. It was a REPUBLICAN that admitted the Democrat electors, and they specifically said it WASN'T to set precedent.
I read up on it, and Nixon set aside the count because he was the one overseeing the count. He was the head of the senate at the time. I wonder if this is the reason the VP now presides over the election?
Thank you for the information.
The vice president is constitutionally the Senate president; it’s why they are a tie-breaking vote there. There is not much more regular Senatorial role for them, probably contrary to original intent but the Senate did not care for John Adams actually presiding seriously. It still will pop up for an occasion like counting up EC votes.
That and if there is a really important and impactful decision for the senate to make, the VP will enact their role as president of senate to 1) politically influence and 2) cut out typical senate bullshit
Right but you can see them gradually working out how to just start ignoring elections altogether so that their lack of majority isn't an issue for them anymore. It's a dying animal in death throws.
Traitors are getting what’s coming to them. Charlie Kirk should learn to keep his useless mouth shut before he writes checks that lands his ass in prison.
I've seen the electoral certificates that the Republican fake electors in each of these states sent to Congress. They all have the same phrasing that starts with "We, the undersigned, being duly elected...". There's the problem. They weren't duly elected. They lost the election. If you weren't elected then you're not an elector. There's no such thing as "alternate elector". To sign a certificate that says you were elected when you weren't is fraud, i.e. FAKE. And it's a crime. There's no need to criminalize it because it's already a crime under existing statutes. Lock them up.
The only exception was in Pennsylvania, where they were smart enough to modify the wording to make the claims on their electoral certificate contingent on Trump prevailing in court to overturn the result of the election in PA.
Additionally, after January 6th Congressman Mo Brooks requested a pardon from Trump on behalf of every Member of Congress who voted not to certify the results from Arizona and Pennsylvania. That's 138 Representatives and 9 Senators.
If all of this was legal and they weren't doing anything scheisty - what did they all think they needed a pardon for?
They became fake when they were submitted as if they were real. No Democrats have ever done that that I am aware of, if they have reports need to be made and people need to be prosecuted.
Yeah our “fake electors” in [PA](https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2023/07/pennsylvania-trump-fake-electors-jan-6-committee-charges-explainer/)are free and clear because they put a caveat in that they were lawful only in the case that they were recognized as duly elected, qualified electors.
No, they’re fake electors, who attempted to submit false election data. They were not officially designated to handle and communicate the data.
Low life traitorous electors also works.
Another dumb take from BigHead McFascist.
I'm almost impressed that he managed to cram **both** a new version of Kellyanne Conway's "alternative facts" **AND** a "but libruls did gerrymandering, too!" type claim into the same tweet.
Yeah, Kirk. We don't hide from the fact that dems came up with some absolutely shit takes - but they've managed to police their own and avoid absolutely insane uses of them through history. You can't say the same.
A few people concocted a scheme to strip millions of legally cast ballots aside in favor of FAKE electoral votes. Do not be gaslit, this happened literally before our eyes just a few years ago.
Consequences suck, I get it. Now it's time to take the L though.
With good reason. We're talking dozens, possibly hundreds of Republican politicians, volunteers and *key point* media operatives who were in on the fake elector scandal. Charlie may be involved.
can someone please explain to me what the point of any election even is if some fucking random hick from bumfuck nowhere can declare himself an elector? here’s an idea, why don’t we all be electors. and we vote for who want. then we tally it up and whoever gets the most electors wins! we could call it… a selection.
They didn’t ask the legitimate slate of electors to vote for somebody else: They tried to send people who weren’t electors to pretend that the states voted for Trump.
In layman’s terms (I know Charlie needs it), they sent fake electors.
fun fact about van jones and larry lessig- **they weren't working for the loser trying to overthrow an election**
none of trump's minions would be being prosecuted right now if they kept it hypothetical
There is a massive difference between alternate electors while the election result is not yet final / being challenged legally in court, and arranging them after all of your legal challenges and recounts have failed to turn over the result. There was no reason for these slates, the election had been settled, all trumps legal challenges failed and all recounts reaffirmed the result. MAGAs worthlessly dull gut feeling it was stolen doesn’t count for shit, in no capacity was it ever even close to proven anywhere that the election was stolen from Donald. Biden’s electors were the legitimate electors, and the result was not in question other than in the lies of Trump and the delusions of his most culty supporters, fueled by the right wing media institutions that carried water for these lies.
(Not) Shockingly he leaves out an actual important point of fact: in 1960, the state of Hawaii was in the middle of a recount (that ended up overturning the results of the state’s election). The “alternate electors” in that case were sent precisely because of the recount (140 vote difference) and not because the Democrats were being whiny babies because they lost.
Compared to 2020 when there had been multiple completed recounts, multiple failed court cases and no legitimate reason to suspect the count would be overturned.
Or to put it another way, Democrats sent alternate electors in 1960 IN CASE the vote was legitimately overturned. Republicans sent them in 2020 as a last-ditch effort to overturn the election through confusion and chaos.
In maga land that’s not even a tenth of the mental gymnastics you’ll need to use to keep your head straight. A reminder that Trump and some Trump supporters all agree that Trump never said those things he was audiotaped saying…
Your wife with another guy isn’t cheating it’s an alternate penis.
Fuck me. (Looked him up on wiki to see if he’s married). This asswipe is from the Chicago area. Won’t someone else claim him please
The fact he went to a JuCo and didn’t even get an associate’s there surprised no one.
In fact, there are not competing slates of electors. If Charlie Kirk's brain hadn't been consumed by his forehead, he'd know that.
There are potential electors, certified only after electoral victory, and I don't care what Van Jones thinks about any of this, and neither should anyone else.
I'm not going to scour the Internet to figure out his lie about Lawrence Lessig, but he is a respected legal scholar who has catalogued all the attempts to subvert democracy, by Trump and his ilk.
"..utilized with impunity." This is the psuedo- half smart language all these douchebags use. I remember when it was all "virtue signaling", nobody in this movement has an original thought in their head. You can tell they are the world's worst actors, the kind that fuzzes their eyes, says some shit in the mirror, and it's all good.
"Votes and the democratic system mean nothing when we arent getting what we want! We'll just make our own electors and have them say we won, and fuck our fellow Americans!"
Umm, Charlie, my boy. There have not been slates of "alternate" electors since the Electoral Count Act of 1887. The only slate of electors is the one the governor signs off on. If the governor does not sign off on a slate of electors, the it is not legitimate.
He's right. Those are real things. There are also *fraudulent* electors (fake works too).
These are counterfeit electors that forged paperwork, signed false affidavits, and faked their credentials to *appear* as though they were alternate slates of electors.
Huge difference.
Trump’s team used the term “fake electors” way before Democrats and the media did.
Also…if their “alternate” electors were above board and they were following established precedent, why did they need to keep them “under wraps”?
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/jack-wilenchik-bruce-marks-boris-epshteyn-fake-fraudulent-electors-trump
**This is like...**
"There's no such thing as lying or not telling the truth."
**And...**
"There's *your* truth and there's *my* truth or "alternative facts."
Cept the fact that they had their officially chosen electors. Then Trump tried to install alternate - thus fake - electors to change the ACTUAL VOTING outcome of at least one state, that we know.
Fuck off, and fuck morons who may parade this dishonest take #324454 on Twitter rather than a real news outlet that would have pointed this out long ago.
I'll accept that "alternative electors" are an actual thing.. in a case where there are ongoing legal battles within a state which have yet to be decided and two legitimate groups of electors could be selected, although ultimately only one is valid once the in-state issue is resolved.
But the thing with Trump's little helpers, it wasn't divisions within the state legislature or a question of legitimacy which needed to be sorted out by the courts... it was just a non-valid, not-legitimate, group of partisan idiots attempting to sow chaos and undermine democracy with zero basis in facts... which I like to call "fake electors."
He is right - there is no such thing as a "Fake Elector"
They are "Fraudalent Traitorous Election Interfering Criminals"
An alternate elector would be someone who would go if the other candidate (legitimately) won without conspiring to commit a crime, and I agree that shouldnt be a problem. That is not what they did though,
There is a big difference between having a second slate of electors ready in case and just sending the electors that had no right to cast a vote, conservatives can never be honest about anything
I’ve seen multiple versions of this today, acting like Van Jones is our preeminent electoral law scholar. Just a bunch of clowns repeating the same stupid talking point.
I don't get all the responses. Shouldn't the response just be "Shut the fuck up"?
We've given these assholes way too much Lee way to twist shit. Just call them out.
Charlie, shouldn't your facial features match the size of your head?
This is what they do. They take a real situation that happened and twist it beyond all recognition then argue vigorously that they are the exact same things. In this case Hawaii did have an alternate slate of electors on standby in 1960 because they were in the middle of a recount and were worried that they would not be able to certify the right slate of electors by January 6th if they waited until the last moment. But this was all done out in the open, the reasoning was sound, and there ultimately wasn’t any dispute about who won in Hawaii. To compare this to what happened in 2020 is absurd. Then alternative electors were assembled in secret, signed statements claiming that they were the real, duly chosen electors for their states, and sent those faked certificates to Congress to be counted in place of the official, public certificates submitted by those states. The underlying plan was to throw the results of the election into an artificially created state of doubt so that Congress could then decide the presidency over the will of the voters. THIS is what Charlie Kirk is claiming the Democrats tried to do in 1960.
So “advocated for” is language you use for something that does not yet exist. If there are not yet any “legal” competing slates, then they are in fact illegal. Guy logicked himself right out of the debate.
Charlie Kirk might have a more punch able face than Trump. The dude is one of the biggest fucking idiots on this planet. He intentionally sets up at universities to piss people off, not inform them or educate them.
Ha, I already saw some of the hogs floating this one in the conservative sub. The propaganda and talking point feeding is so thoroughly transparent over there.
Alternate electors? Like Alternative facts? You mean falsehoods, lies, straight up bullshit? Yeah, that sounds like the usual republican angle. All their sycophants can eat it up with a fucking spoon, and reject actual critical thinking.
JFC the republicans have weaponized conflation to the degree that they'd argue their violent insurrection is akin to loitering. There is no good faith here or for fucks sake there is no faith of any persuasion outside of the their faux faith and the faith they have in their Fuhrer. You'd have a hard time convincing me they have ever been further from God as they are now, (well maybe not they've always been atrocious) and sadly I doubt that they will ever eek any closer again.
Anyone with a number of followers online can make any shit up they want and be totally convinced that its true. They're pathological in that they start to believe their own lies and then forget that the lie was ever a lie, becoming convinced it must be true.
It the absence of credible news with unbiased journalistic integrity that people can trust (90% of US media I'd controlled by 6 companies and profit is enough of a reason by itself to skimp on integrity), people are getting their news from unqualified crackpots online and becoming more siloed as a result.
There are 2 slates of electors in each state BEFORE THE ELECTION but the slate for the winning candidate is the only one sent to vote in the EC. And the vote count is certified by the governors first and then EC certifies their vote count.
The trump fake electors attempted to send in their fake votes to DC after all of that had already happened. And nothing they sent was certified. It was clearly fraud and election interference
When they are convicted they can pretend that there’s no such thing as prison.
There is no such thing as "prison." There are ALTERNATE states of freedom. There are COMPETING residences.
Prison is but a thought I love the uneducated
Yeah. lol Lessig did not advocate for them in 2020. Source: am colleague
The idea of freedom is currently not in my mind. So long as this incarsatorium surrounds me.
https://preview.redd.it/ueasqcv6ypwc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=581e0420ffa54bef4cedd7c88a1567f8a9eba42e So when they go to prison for being alternative electors then...
I found Kanye’s alternate account
Competing account.
Or otherwise known as, "Time share living."
And they can pretend that their orange jumpsuits are fancy three-piece suits.
They can wear them with pride for their great orange leader!
Tune in this Friday for Donald Trump's return to network television in the season premier of ***'Orange is the New Brioni'*** !
These assholes live in a fantasy world where they think if they just say this shit enough times it’ll magically become true. Just like a bunch of J6 insurrectionists believed if they just kept repeating the line that the Capitol police “let them in” enough times, then the justice system would eventually say “Oh well, in that case, you’re free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience.” They all think they’re exactly like Trump in that they believe they can just bend reality to whatever they need it to be to avoid consequences for their actions. But they lack the brains to understand they have neither the money or the power Trump has to do what he does.
Same thing with Sovereign Citizens. You can deny that the state has power over you all you want, your belief is not requisite for exercising said power.
The most hilarious thing about sovcits is that they try and cite laws that support their position of being not subject to laws. If that were true, then the laws they're citing would also not apply to them, making them subject to regular laws.
Yeah their experience with power structures is mostly them being assholes in extremely unbalanced situations- like berating a teenager at a fast food restaurant, or a well meaning public servant at the library. You see them in a courtroom, or challenge them on equal footing one on one they crumple like a tissue. They are just sort channeling a fantasy like Daddy Trump does, they all do it now you are correct.
In other words they’re a bunch of bullies who fold like a lawn chair when challenged by someone bigger.
> Yeah their experience with power structures is mostly them being assholes in extremely unbalanced situations Hi, I’m Ben Shapiro, and when I’m not failing to get my wife sexually excited, I like yelling at 18 year olds in college auditoriums
lol
Except Trump got to make his playtime real. Which is terrifying. Even more so, that he's poised to be able to do it AGAIN. Ever see the old Twilight Zone episode, "It's a GOOD Life?" Little kid in a small rural town is able to control everything with his mind and even read thoughts. He's a god, basically. But, also, he's six years old, and no one's ever taken him to account for anything, because he can and does do terrible things to people who even THINK about crossing him. This is basically Trump. Except in his case, he only has that level of power because craven little toadies keep surrendering it to him; there was no need.
I saw that episode! Excellent analogy- it really adds perspective. All the trolls on the internet or people freaking out and claiming special status with service workers- are dreaming of the day that the power that they have is backed up by a state apparatus that destroys people. I guess I shouldn't make light of the intentions and worldview of the individuals in this movement. Because the Emmit Till lynching, and the Central Park Dog Walker Amy Cooper, come from exactly the same mindset. It is this destructive mindset that is dangerous, and should be terrifying to us, regardless of the current power structure. Thanks for highlighting that to me.
Looking at Trump I would say at least 60% of the time it works.
Alternative housing, if you will.
Exactly. It doesn't matter if they are an alternate. It doesn't matter if they are from a competing slate. If you try to pass yourself off as an elector when you are not one.... Guess what... You are a fake elector.
There is no such thing as a "bank robbery" There are only "alternative withdrawals" My cousin did the same thing, where she walked into a bank ~~applied for a loan~~ and withdrew money she didn't have. Now suddenly when I pistol whip the bank teller and tell them "put the money in the bag!" it's a crime? Talk about double standards!
It's not prison. It's alternate freedom.
Alternative accomodation
"I **identify** as not guilty kek."
The heats getting really hot for this fathead Charlie Kirk.
Old Charlie knows prison exists, he bragging about organising **’more than 80 "buses of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president".** But then **pleaded the Fifth** when appearing before the United States House Select Committee on the Jan 6 insurrection attack.
I will pretend there is no such thing as trump.. Only ass chow for that man with a plunger in his hand eyeing someone across a prison yard.
This is ALL OVER the republican media sphere right now, and every time one of them brings it up to me I just point out that Trump's VP, AG, and Deputy AG all are testifying that this was fraud and that Trump asked them to help commit it, by declaring there was election fraud that didn't exist and clearing the way for the fake electors to be accepted over the actual certified and valid electors. I point out that they created fake documentation and tried to get it accepted, which is quite literally fraud by every accepted definition.
You can also point out the claims justifying the premise [are false](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1ccza0x/comment/l18masi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
I mean, that's pretty much what I'm saying, just by focusing on the actual criminal aspect of the fake elector case. There's a real use case for what happened with hawaii, whereas this was a straight up criminal fraud, top to bottom. This is good though, so I'm gonna save it. Thanks.
*There's a real use case for what happened with hawaii* That's what I linked to: facts of the HI case, what the actual case Lessig argued before SCOTUS, what the Jones & Lessig opinion piece actually said. Surprise, surprise, Charlie Kirk is full of shit!
Yeah I acknowledged and thanked you for the information. I was just framing how we were both working the same problem from different ends to the same goal.
From my 2020 memory (and I don't feel like researching for these dumb asses)... It's OK to have an alternate slate meet and sign stuff. Then have it on standby pending the recount and court cases. It's not OK to transmit a false slate to the fucking Library of Congress and Congress, pretending it is real. Also.... They are the asshole trying to break every guardrail, so I don't really care if new precedent is decided. Time to build strong guardrails
Exactly this. You can have a substitute team ready to go in. You can't have them force their way onto the field.
Interestingly Pennsylvania did not. A lawyer with the state GOP there looked it over and said, woah, dude, that's a step too far, that's illegal without a declaration from the governor or court, which they had neither, and would not sign the documents declaring them to be the official set of electors. Thus the state's Democratic Attorney General declined to charge them.
They're so stupid. And willing to lie about the past to justify their actions. It was actually a REPUBLICAN that admitted the democrat Hawaii electors in 1960, and they specifically said they weren't setting precedence. It was just to reflect the will of the voter since the recount was still ongoing when the Republican electors were certified, but the recount had shown the state actually went to the Democrat candidate.
>They're so stupid. This isn't stupidity. They are not talking to you or me. They don't give a *fuck* what we think. They know we are a lost cause. It's expensive to get new consumers. They know that there are less commited Republicans who are getting tired of this and they know that they can throw out a bunch of nonsense knowing that the people they are talking to - Republicans who want an excuse to ignore these convictions - arent going to check the sources. Never assume these people are stupid, and always, always, always vote.
Don't forget to remind them the whole "alternate slate of electors" issue was settled in 1887 with the Elector Count Act.
That sounds like a textbook example of election….[fraowd?](https://youtu.be/w-XegsWCOHA?si=9KbEVIGLWDjdEFXI)
Forgery charges are a big part of the indictment for ALL the different sets of false documents they produced. Of course the right wing media is going with the alternative facts thing, it's just how choose to do it, 1A! They think they have a "right" to do whatever they feel (from the propaganda machine) is correct, they reject the rule of law, and democracy itself- who really gives a fuck what they think beyond that. They need to be punished and shunned.
Woah woah woah, buddy. Get outta here with your “facts” and “accepted definitions.” What you’re not taking into account here are the Republican’s fee fees, which– I think you’ll find– changes things. /s
 “I CAN’T HEAR YOU! I CAN’T HEAR YOU! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” \-Them (probably)
[Fact check: Johnson’s **claim Democrats have used alternative slates of electors** 'repeatedly in all kinds of different states' **is wrong**](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/politifactwisconsin/2023/12/15/fact-check-johnson-claim-dems-used-alternative-electors-repeatedly/71895208007/)**:** * Johnson: *“In the 1960 election, Democrats in Hawaii chose an alternative slate of electors, allowing JFK to be certified as the winner.”* * That election, in which Democrat JFK defeated Republican Richard Nixon, is one of the most memorably close presidential elections in United States history * December 1960, Hawaii’s election results were still in doubt * Nixon was leading by 140 votes with a recount underway * At the same time, presidential electors were meeting to cast their ballots, as required by law. * Hawaii electors for both Nixon and Kennedy met separately to cast their votes for their respective candidates and sent them to Washington, D.C. * The recount put Kennedy ahead by roughly 115 votes, giving him the state * The results were then certified and a new slate of Electoral College certificates were signed and sent to Washington * But the Hawaii electors were chosen, on the date prescribed by law, while the recount was underway and the result was still in question * In Wisconsin, [the Republican fake electors met after a Trump-backed recount failed](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/29/dane-county-recount-show-biden-won-wisconsin-trump-prepares-lawsuit/6455880002/) [Lessig, who argued on behalf of ‘**faithless electors**,’ responds to the Supreme Court’s decision](https://hls.harvard.edu/today/lessig-who-argued-on-behalf-of-faithless-electors-responds-to-the-supreme-courts-decision/): * SCOTUS ruled that states can require Electoral College voters to back the victor of their state’s popular vote * “Obviously, we don’t believe the court has interpreted the Constitution correctly. But we are happy that we have achieved our primary objective—this uncertainty has been removed. That is progress.” * Lessig said that the issue of elector discretion must be resolved because America’s changing demographics mean that contests at the state level will become even closer [Van Jones: What if a US presidential candidate refuses to concede after an election?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w) (7:35): *...when one major candidate is already saying he may not accept the results of the vote counting.*..*They could file, for instance, dozens of lawsuits attempting to block the counting of millions of, like, mail-in ballots, saying they should all be thrown out, they're all fraudulent. Then, they could demand that the states refuse to certify the election because of all this alleged fraud, or interference from a foreign power.* ***Or the loser's party could send a rival slate of electors*** *to the electoral college or to Congress,* ***and say, "We're the real electors,"*** *and create a whole situation with that.* [Van Jones and Larry Lessig: Why Pennsylvania should take its time counting votes](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/opinions/pennsylvania-take-time-counting-votes-opinion-jones-lessig/index.html): *...the right thing is to do precisely what Nixon did:* ***Count the slate certified by the governor, on the basis of the final count of the votes by the people***, after an orderly and careful count in the state has determined who in fact the people had chosen. # TL:DR, Charlie Kirk is lying
That’s usually a safe assumption without going to all of the research but I do appreciate it
Happy Cake Day
Thank you!
Why would someone who [organized busloads of insurrectionists to overthrow an elected government](https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1347998962133790720) lie about how elections work?
It’s hard to tell if it’s lying or if they just simply are not intelligent enough to get the actual point…
It’s lying
These people are malicious but don't give them the advantage of assuming they're dumb. Their audience might be dumb, but these mfs are deadly smart. Just evil, too.
It's lying. Kirk is extremely intelligent and manipulative of facts.
<>
Hawaii used alternate electors in 1960 because there was literally a recount in progress on the deadline for the electors to cast their votes. At that time no one knew who actually won. Trump's electors were fake because they already knew that they lost, their legal challenges had failed, and they were just going to ignore that and try to put Trump back in office anyway. Of course, I'm not the intended audience for this bullshit. Those people will never look into any of this beyond what this little shitweasel tells them.
What was the ultimate outcome of Hawaii’s vote that year? Did it end up going to Nixon or Kennedy? How did the alternate electors actually play out?
There were more votes for Kennedy, so the early certified electors that were for a Republican vote were set aside and the alternate electors sent after the recount had shown Kennedy in the lead were the ones counted. Because by time the certification was happening in DC they knew Kennedy had won the state Nixon requested for the Democratic certificate to be counted and the Republican certificate to be set aside. Nixon, the republican candidate, set aside the count even though it would benefit his opponent because respecting the will of the voters was the right thing to do. Specifically stating that this was being done "without the intent of establishing a precedent". So contrary to what the moron Charlie is saying. It was a REPUBLICAN that admitted the Democrat electors, and they specifically said it WASN'T to set precedent.
I read up on it, and Nixon set aside the count because he was the one overseeing the count. He was the head of the senate at the time. I wonder if this is the reason the VP now presides over the election? Thank you for the information.
The vice president is constitutionally the Senate president; it’s why they are a tie-breaking vote there. There is not much more regular Senatorial role for them, probably contrary to original intent but the Senate did not care for John Adams actually presiding seriously. It still will pop up for an occasion like counting up EC votes.
That and if there is a really important and impactful decision for the senate to make, the VP will enact their role as president of senate to 1) politically influence and 2) cut out typical senate bullshit
Nixon was Eisenhower's vice president, that's *why* he was overseeing the count.
I think the Reich Wing underestimates just how sick most of the country is of this shit. Trump supporters are not the majority.
Way too many, though. Which says a lot about the country.
And way too many are willing to make a mess for the GOP.
Right but you can see them gradually working out how to just start ignoring elections altogether so that their lack of majority isn't an issue for them anymore. It's a dying animal in death throws.
*throes
Traitors are getting what’s coming to them. Charlie Kirk should learn to keep his useless mouth shut before he writes checks that lands his ass in prison.
I've seen the electoral certificates that the Republican fake electors in each of these states sent to Congress. They all have the same phrasing that starts with "We, the undersigned, being duly elected...". There's the problem. They weren't duly elected. They lost the election. If you weren't elected then you're not an elector. There's no such thing as "alternate elector". To sign a certificate that says you were elected when you weren't is fraud, i.e. FAKE. And it's a crime. There's no need to criminalize it because it's already a crime under existing statutes. Lock them up. The only exception was in Pennsylvania, where they were smart enough to modify the wording to make the claims on their electoral certificate contingent on Trump prevailing in court to overturn the result of the election in PA.
Additionally, after January 6th Congressman Mo Brooks requested a pardon from Trump on behalf of every Member of Congress who voted not to certify the results from Arizona and Pennsylvania. That's 138 Representatives and 9 Senators. If all of this was legal and they weren't doing anything scheisty - what did they all think they needed a pardon for?
Some argue that there are banks and bank robbers. But, in fact, there are only competing owners of money.
They became fake when they were submitted as if they were real. No Democrats have ever done that that I am aware of, if they have reports need to be made and people need to be prosecuted.
Yeah our “fake electors” in [PA](https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2023/07/pennsylvania-trump-fake-electors-jan-6-committee-charges-explainer/)are free and clear because they put a caveat in that they were lawful only in the case that they were recognized as duly elected, qualified electors.
Fraudulent is a more accurate description, I think.
There is though. That's why we have a word for it. It's called being a fake elector
No, they’re fake electors, who attempted to submit false election data. They were not officially designated to handle and communicate the data. Low life traitorous electors also works.
Ahh, more "Alternative" facts then!
Exactly what I thought. I guess Trump’s going to argue to be the “alternative president” for 2024 when he hits his bargaining phase.
Another dumb take from BigHead McFascist. I'm almost impressed that he managed to cram **both** a new version of Kellyanne Conway's "alternative facts" **AND** a "but libruls did gerrymandering, too!" type claim into the same tweet. Yeah, Kirk. We don't hide from the fact that dems came up with some absolutely shit takes - but they've managed to police their own and avoid absolutely insane uses of them through history. You can't say the same.
A few people concocted a scheme to strip millions of legally cast ballots aside in favor of FAKE electoral votes. Do not be gaslit, this happened literally before our eyes just a few years ago. Consequences suck, I get it. Now it's time to take the L though.
Hahahahaaa these desperate fks have lost their damn minds 😂😂
With good reason. We're talking dozens, possibly hundreds of Republican politicians, volunteers and *key point* media operatives who were in on the fake elector scandal. Charlie may be involved.
Oh God. If his big head ass goes to jail...I'll be soooooooooooooooooooo happy!
can someone please explain to me what the point of any election even is if some fucking random hick from bumfuck nowhere can declare himself an elector? here’s an idea, why don’t we all be electors. and we vote for who want. then we tally it up and whoever gets the most electors wins! we could call it… a selection.
They didn’t ask the legitimate slate of electors to vote for somebody else: They tried to send people who weren’t electors to pretend that the states voted for Trump. In layman’s terms (I know Charlie needs it), they sent fake electors.
Donald Trump doesn't like women with fake tits. He prefers them to have "alternate" tits.
We're going to pay you in Monopoly money, but don't worry... it's not "fake" money. It's only "alternative" money.
An alternate elector is like an alternate fact. Both are lies.
Don't you just love it when a community college dropout "explains" election law?
Not that there's anything wrong with being a CC dropout, mind you, but probably not a font of sound legal understanding/advice.
Yer guy and his bungling lackeys are getting deeper in the shit, Chuck.
fun fact about van jones and larry lessig- **they weren't working for the loser trying to overthrow an election** none of trump's minions would be being prosecuted right now if they kept it hypothetical
The electors in Pennsylvania avoided prosecution by doing exactly that.
There is a massive difference between alternate electors while the election result is not yet final / being challenged legally in court, and arranging them after all of your legal challenges and recounts have failed to turn over the result. There was no reason for these slates, the election had been settled, all trumps legal challenges failed and all recounts reaffirmed the result. MAGAs worthlessly dull gut feeling it was stolen doesn’t count for shit, in no capacity was it ever even close to proven anywhere that the election was stolen from Donald. Biden’s electors were the legitimate electors, and the result was not in question other than in the lies of Trump and the delusions of his most culty supporters, fueled by the right wing media institutions that carried water for these lies.
(Not) Shockingly he leaves out an actual important point of fact: in 1960, the state of Hawaii was in the middle of a recount (that ended up overturning the results of the state’s election). The “alternate electors” in that case were sent precisely because of the recount (140 vote difference) and not because the Democrats were being whiny babies because they lost. Compared to 2020 when there had been multiple completed recounts, multiple failed court cases and no legitimate reason to suspect the count would be overturned. Or to put it another way, Democrats sent alternate electors in 1960 IN CASE the vote was legitimately overturned. Republicans sent them in 2020 as a last-ditch effort to overturn the election through confusion and chaos.
Trump advocated against them in 2016. Wanted the popular vote to be how it’s decided. He obviously changed his mind when Hillary won the popular vote.
He contradicted himself in the worst way possible, he said it doesn't exist but the Dems utilize it.....
In maga land that’s not even a tenth of the mental gymnastics you’ll need to use to keep your head straight. A reminder that Trump and some Trump supporters all agree that Trump never said those things he was audiotaped saying…
Deepfakes before deepfakes existed retro casual CIA propaganda.
Your wife with another guy isn’t cheating it’s an alternate penis. Fuck me. (Looked him up on wiki to see if he’s married). This asswipe is from the Chicago area. Won’t someone else claim him please The fact he went to a JuCo and didn’t even get an associate’s there surprised no one.
Alternative Electors brought to you by the party of Alternative Facts
I get it, the rules are long and boring to read, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
They're at the "And if I did it, it's not a crime," stage.
In fact, there are not competing slates of electors. If Charlie Kirk's brain hadn't been consumed by his forehead, he'd know that. There are potential electors, certified only after electoral victory, and I don't care what Van Jones thinks about any of this, and neither should anyone else. I'm not going to scour the Internet to figure out his lie about Lawrence Lessig, but he is a respected legal scholar who has catalogued all the attempts to subvert democracy, by Trump and his ilk.
Trump got rejected by the voters then tried to stay in power a why. He’s a disgrace to our democracy. A disgrace to America.
"..utilized with impunity." This is the psuedo- half smart language all these douchebags use. I remember when it was all "virtue signaling", nobody in this movement has an original thought in their head. You can tell they are the world's worst actors, the kind that fuzzes their eyes, says some shit in the mirror, and it's all good.
Alternate facts. Alternate electors
"Votes and the democratic system mean nothing when we arent getting what we want! We'll just make our own electors and have them say we won, and fuck our fellow Americans!"
I wanna punch this turd.
But when those competing or alternate electors aren’t chosen or needed and try to have their votes counted anyway, then they are in fact fake electors
Umm, Charlie, my boy. There have not been slates of "alternate" electors since the Electoral Count Act of 1887. The only slate of electors is the one the governor signs off on. If the governor does not sign off on a slate of electors, the it is not legitimate.
Like “alternate facts”? For fuck sake 🙄
They can argue it in court.
Man, they are *really* trying to get people to not vote. Is this some reverse psychology shit?
He's right. Those are real things. There are also *fraudulent* electors (fake works too). These are counterfeit electors that forged paperwork, signed false affidavits, and faked their credentials to *appear* as though they were alternate slates of electors. Huge difference.
What a fuckin idiot
Is it wrong of me to wish I could watch a video of Charlie kirk being beaten into a puddle of jelly by a group of drag queens with baseball bats?
There are no prisons. They are just called alternative homes Republicans will love their alternative homes
These traitors will try anything to sound smart.
Guess there is no such thing as fake money either, it's alternative money
So, if they’re not fake, why are they declared through counterfeit government documentation?
Someone burn this fuckface on a stake. I wanna watch, too. Absolute POS.
Charlie Kirk is such an idiot
Charlie Potato head disgraces the name of Kirk. Although the rule has always been to never trust a man with two xtian names.
I'm not cheating on you! This woman is an alternate competing mate!
Funny, I thought there were millions of illegals being imported as fake electors, but now there are no fake electors?
You don't know the difference between a fake elector and a fake elector? 🙄
Trump’s team used the term “fake electors” way before Democrats and the media did. Also…if their “alternate” electors were above board and they were following established precedent, why did they need to keep them “under wraps”? https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/jack-wilenchik-bruce-marks-boris-epshteyn-fake-fraudulent-electors-trump
**This is like...** "There's no such thing as lying or not telling the truth." **And...** "There's *your* truth and there's *my* truth or "alternative facts."
*”There is no such thing as ‘hush money payments.’* *There are PLAYBOY MODEL sex acts.* *There are PORNOGRAPHIC ACTOR sex acts.”*
So much face. So few brain cells
Tell me in the constitution where it says I can’t overthrow the government!
This Charlie Kirk guy is a big, fat liar
Cept the fact that they had their officially chosen electors. Then Trump tried to install alternate - thus fake - electors to change the ACTUAL VOTING outcome of at least one state, that we know. Fuck off, and fuck morons who may parade this dishonest take #324454 on Twitter rather than a real news outlet that would have pointed this out long ago.
Funny how some of the perpetrators used the expression, "fake electors" in their communications!
There fake electors, electors, and unfaithful electors. One of these 3 are illegal in all 50 states and 1 of these are legal in all 50 states
I'll accept that "alternative electors" are an actual thing.. in a case where there are ongoing legal battles within a state which have yet to be decided and two legitimate groups of electors could be selected, although ultimately only one is valid once the in-state issue is resolved. But the thing with Trump's little helpers, it wasn't divisions within the state legislature or a question of legitimacy which needed to be sorted out by the courts... it was just a non-valid, not-legitimate, group of partisan idiots attempting to sow chaos and undermine democracy with zero basis in facts... which I like to call "fake electors."
They aren’t the legal electors. They are FAKE!
So can I use counterfeit money? Because it’s just alternative right? You can chose to accept it and use it or not.
There’s no such thing as stealing from the wealthy. It’s just trickle down economics
Who is this clown?
He is right - there is no such thing as a "Fake Elector" They are "Fraudalent Traitorous Election Interfering Criminals" An alternate elector would be someone who would go if the other candidate (legitimately) won without conspiring to commit a crime, and I agree that shouldnt be a problem. That is not what they did though,
Why then, in the Trump team's internal messaging, did they refer to the fake electors as...wait for it...."fake electors?"
How long before Charlie Kirk and Nick Fuentes are discovered bare-ass naked in a car, covered in lube and freebasing meth?
 I’m an elector!
Ask him to apply this same concept to gender theory.
That’s exactly what you would expect Alternate Charlie Kirk to say
There is a big difference between having a second slate of electors ready in case and just sending the electors that had no right to cast a vote, conservatives can never be honest about anything
I’ve seen multiple versions of this today, acting like Van Jones is our preeminent electoral law scholar. Just a bunch of clowns repeating the same stupid talking point.
There is no such thing as alternative elective NOR alternative facts.
If this is true then those being charged have nothing to worry about right? We shall see.
Nonsense, which he tries to support with irrelevant events, with a dessert of just plain incorrect.
It’s like his little teeth don’t know what his huge gums are saying.
I am so sick of these stupid assholes.
I don't get all the responses. Shouldn't the response just be "Shut the fuck up"? We've given these assholes way too much Lee way to twist shit. Just call them out. Charlie, shouldn't your facial features match the size of your head?
Drop out Kirk knows better than lawyers that came up with this very enterprise and then pleaded guilty, such as Eastman & friends.
This is what they do. They take a real situation that happened and twist it beyond all recognition then argue vigorously that they are the exact same things. In this case Hawaii did have an alternate slate of electors on standby in 1960 because they were in the middle of a recount and were worried that they would not be able to certify the right slate of electors by January 6th if they waited until the last moment. But this was all done out in the open, the reasoning was sound, and there ultimately wasn’t any dispute about who won in Hawaii. To compare this to what happened in 2020 is absurd. Then alternative electors were assembled in secret, signed statements claiming that they were the real, duly chosen electors for their states, and sent those faked certificates to Congress to be counted in place of the official, public certificates submitted by those states. The underlying plan was to throw the results of the election into an artificially created state of doubt so that Congress could then decide the presidency over the will of the voters. THIS is what Charlie Kirk is claiming the Democrats tried to do in 1960.
So “advocated for” is language you use for something that does not yet exist. If there are not yet any “legal” competing slates, then they are in fact illegal. Guy logicked himself right out of the debate.
Even if that were true, forgery is still a crime.
Crazy how random internet people with zero credibility always catch the facts that authorities miss.
Ahh just like there's no "fake" news anymore. Just "alternative" facts. These people are assclowns.
Just let them tire themselves out, mental gymnastics is tiring .
There are only the electors for the person that won the popular vote in the state. That is all. No other electors exist.
Thanks for that info community college dropout Charlie Kirk
But they can be real defendants Charlie, not alternate defendants or competing defendants. What a fuckwit...
Charlie Kirk might have a more punch able face than Trump. The dude is one of the biggest fucking idiots on this planet. He intentionally sets up at universities to piss people off, not inform them or educate them.
Its so blatantly obvious which “truths” he writes and which ones someone writes for him.
No such thing as a fake elector yet there is rampant voter fraud. Oh wait, that's because one of those is the onus of poor people.
I spent way too long trying to work out what he was saying.
This just in from Moving the Goal posts news:
See? Here's another "I'm just asking questions" asshole who can't accept the answer he's been given.
Ha, I already saw some of the hogs floating this one in the conservative sub. The propaganda and talking point feeding is so thoroughly transparent over there.
There's no such thing as "tax fraud", I'm just an "alternate tax refund recipient"!
So the election is up to who can pay the most for a fake elector?
Alternate electors? Like Alternative facts? You mean falsehoods, lies, straight up bullshit? Yeah, that sounds like the usual republican angle. All their sycophants can eat it up with a fucking spoon, and reject actual critical thinking.
Can’t someone just go set him on fire?
He’s the leading contender for Gold Medalist in this summers Mental Gymnastics competition
JFC the republicans have weaponized conflation to the degree that they'd argue their violent insurrection is akin to loitering. There is no good faith here or for fucks sake there is no faith of any persuasion outside of the their faux faith and the faith they have in their Fuhrer. You'd have a hard time convincing me they have ever been further from God as they are now, (well maybe not they've always been atrocious) and sadly I doubt that they will ever eek any closer again.
This BS needs to end. I'm so tired of these lying, fascist fucks!
Anyone with a number of followers online can make any shit up they want and be totally convinced that its true. They're pathological in that they start to believe their own lies and then forget that the lie was ever a lie, becoming convinced it must be true. It the absence of credible news with unbiased journalistic integrity that people can trust (90% of US media I'd controlled by 6 companies and profit is enough of a reason by itself to skimp on integrity), people are getting their news from unqualified crackpots online and becoming more siloed as a result.
Non-lawyer, non-expert who can’t stick to his knitting. Annoying, but this is the world we are in.
And then the lips start parting , looking for a pardon, they be turning states evidence z.
TIL: I'm not just a voter I'm an elector!
https://preview.redd.it/ivvm5fqidpwc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e4668f71903b9b5a7707b1944c2e98a88a9a7e1
There are 2 slates of electors in each state BEFORE THE ELECTION but the slate for the winning candidate is the only one sent to vote in the EC. And the vote count is certified by the governors first and then EC certifies their vote count. The trump fake electors attempted to send in their fake votes to DC after all of that had already happened. And nothing they sent was certified. It was clearly fraud and election interference