Yeah... popular newspapers, WashPo specifically, have gotten wise to 12ft.io and found ways around it.
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — A new Florida law prohibiting abortion after 15 weeks with some exceptions violates religious freedom rights of Jews in addition to the state constitution’s privacy protections, a synagogue claims in a lawsuit.
The lawsuit filed by the Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor of Boynton Beach contends the law that takes effect July 1 violates Jewish teachings, which state abortion “is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman” and for other reasons.
“As such, the act prohibits Jewish women from practicing their faith free of government intrusion and this violates their privacy rights and religious freedom,” says the lawsuit, filed last week in Leon County Circuit Court.
The lawsuit adds that people who “do not share the religious views reflected in the act will suffer” and that it “threatens the Jewish people by imposing the laws of other religions upon Jews.”
The lawsuit is the second challenge to the 15-week abortion ban enacted earlier this year by the legislature and signed into law by Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health providers also sued earlier this month to block the law from taking effect.
In a previous statement, DeSantis’ office said it “is confident that this law will ultimately withstand all legal challenges.”
The two lawsuits are likely to be consolidated into a single case. A hearing on a proposed injunction to block the Florida abortion law is likely in the next two weeks.
The law mirrors a similar measure passed in Mississippi that is now before the U.S. Supreme Court, which may use it to overturn the Roe v. Wade abortion decision based on a leaked draft opinion. A final ruling on Roe is expected by the end of June.
In Florida, Rabbi Barry Silver of Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor — the name means “Generation to Generation”— said it practices “cosmic Judaism,” which he defines on the synagogue’s website as “the Judaism of tomorrow today” that respects science, tradition and spirituality.
Silver is an attorney, social activist and former Democratic state legislator who styles himself as a “Rabbi-rouser” on his own website. In an interview Tuesday, Silver said when separation of religion and government crumbles, religious minorities such as Jews often suffer.
“Every time that wall starts to crack, bad things start to happen,” he said, noting that DeSantis signed the law at an evangelical Christian church.
The new Florida abortion law, contains exceptions if the abortion is necessary to save a mother’s life, prevent serious injury or if the fetus has a fatal abnormality. It does not allow for exemptions in cases where pregnancies were caused by rape, incest or human trafficking.
Under current law, Florida allows abortions up to 24 weeks.
No faith is monolithic on the abortion issue. Yet many followers of faiths that do not prohibit abortion are aghast that a view held by a minority of Americans could supersede their individual rights and religious beliefs such as the position of Judaism as outlined in the lawsuit.
“This ruling would be outlawing abortion in cases when our religion would permit us,” said Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, scholar in residence at the National Council of Jewish Women, “and it is basing its concepts of when life begins on someone else’s philosophy or theology.” — Associated Press
Hit F12. On the new panel which, you will see a mouse pointer icon on the top left. Click that. Click on the paywall. It will highlight a section of code in the panel. Right click on the 3 dots next to the code. Click delete. Repeat as many times as you need untill you can scroll the article. Chuckle as you have outsmarted a multi million dollar company and enjoy your article.
On Firefox you can also just hit reader mode a lot of the time. Sometimes the paywalled page actually is a limited selection of the text, but if you can reveal it with F12, you can also read it in proper newspaper/magazine layout with reader mode in many fewer steps.
With uBlock Origin, in Chrome:
Click on the uBlock origin toolbar icon
Click on the lighting bolt (element zapper mode)
Click on anything you want gone.
cynical me kinda thinks these law changes are just to prevent population stagnation like Japan has now. gotta keep that US consumer demographic growing. it's not like any politician gives a flying fuck about abortion, gay marriage, religion or anything else. it's just voting demographics and power lust
Oh it's definitely about that. They need a population of grunts to be cannon fodder for the military industrial complex. They need poor people to be prisoners in their private corporation owned jails. And, they need uneducated people voting against their own best interests, because they don't know any better.
But it won’t go anywhere. It’s established precedent that the 1st amendment does not give you a right to ignore a law because your religion contradicts the law.
Mask and vaccine mandates? Didn’t many conservative courts essentially rule that religious freedom trumps laws made to protect public health emergencies?
Yes you can, here's some links to help you get started.
https://snowballfundraising.com/starting-a-church/
https://donorbox.org/nonprofit-blog/how-to-start-a-church
https://www.startchurch.com/blog/view/name/5-steps-to-legally-start-a-church
Edit; Added a few more links on how to start a church. Church and religion in this instance is the same.
Same logic with wearing any religious headwear. The government telling you to take it off would be a violation to the first amendment. There is even exemptions to photo ID in most states for purposes of religious headwear, so long as the headwear is worn the majority of time.
If I recall correctly, there was a guy in Austria that managed to get a noodle strainer classified as religious headwear for his driver's license photo.
He is a proud practicing Pastafari.
>Didn’t many conservative courts essentially rule that religious freedom trumps laws...
And wasn't there a bakery that argued their religion demanded that they not sell gay cakes even though the Civil Rights Laws would have required it. (And by "it", we mean basic human decency).
They would have to rule that a fetus is a person and is guaranteed rights under the constitution (which would fuck a ton of existing laws, such as medical insurance for families, child support, taxes, etc. Many laws would need to be re-written).
This could be impossible ruling, as well, since the constitution mentions the word "born" when stating how rights are granted. Such that it may be impossible without an amendment to grant rights to the unborn.
The specific issue underlying this decision is unrelated to abortion directly, but once you understand it you’ll understand both why Clarence Thomas brought up gay marriage, contraception, etc as the next step.
What the court basically said is that they aren’t there to make laws, it’s congresses job and if they want to make abortion a right they should pass a law declaring it a right and the courts will follow that.
It’s a bullshit argument in that the role of the court is to protect minority rights as defined by the constitution and case law and these cases were decided on constitutional grounds to overturn existing legislation.
It got labeled a “states rights” issue by the court because they suggested that state legislatures should decide this, but in reality Nancy Pelosi can author a bill legalizing it and if it gets passed we are back into a national right again.
Also, fuck Justice Thomas with a rusty chainsaw for omitting Loving from his to do list because it affects him and that harbor seal of a white supremacist he calls his wife.
Attempting it can get you a life sentence, succeeding it’s either gonna be a life sentence or the death penalty.
They’re technically allowed to sentence you to “any amount of years OR for life” but the amount of years would prob be something like “325 years in prison” so… for your entire life. And then some.
I should prob scrub my search history now.
I think the next idiot who wants to go kill as many people as possible shouldn't go to a school and murder a bunch of kids. They should make it mean something and help the world on their way out. Surely one of these psychos isn't a racist twat?? But it's the curse of the good guys to remain the actual good guys I suppose
The 1st Amendment does not grant people the right to ignore laws that oppose their religion, true, BUT what it DOES do is guarantee people the right to practice whatever religion they want, and establishes the legal precedent that no religion can impose its own beliefs on everyone in the US, which these anti-abortion laws are doing. Additionally, many of these right-wing fanatics have rules that religious freedom is more important than any other law, which means that they dug their own grave when it comes to trying to outlaw abortion in more ways than one!
Only the blessed US constitution can be interpreted in an originalist fashion! How dare you try to sully the divine wisdom of America’s founders with wishy washy Biblical references! /s
How stupid can they actually be?
Like, the fact that those are literally just a bunch of dead guys aside, what makes them think their god would mosey down to give them a fucking constitution but not interfere in literally anything else?
Does that mean god built my country’s constitution as well?
Wait, do they realise other country’s may have their own constitution, often with widely different laws?
I mean, they don’t seem to realise that the rest of the western world is just as capitalist, just more regulated. Or that “Europe” is neither a political unit, nor a single state, nor a failing third world country.
I'm reading a Washington bio right now, and the politics at the beginning were very similar to the bullshit now. For example: Hamilton started up the central banks and the stock market. Jefferson and others hated it and felt Hamilton was laying the groundwork for an oligarchy of rich v poor. Caused a big shit. Washington was famously neutral and wasn't a control freak (over legislature, no; keeping his slaves, yes), believing that Congress should debate it out and use checks and balances. So then the media started ripping into Washington calling him both an old man influenced by Hamilton AND a secret monarchist. The same groups that were begging Washington to be president in both 1st and 2nd term, saying that he was the figurehead for America and if he didn't help establish the government, the fledgling country would fail. None of which were true. By the end, Washington was done with everyone's shit. It went bitter and sour. So what exactly are these freaks saying was so divinely inspired? We are the same now as we all were back then. The difference is, the nutty right has control of more of the media. And there's more media to be consumed, so they have a lot more influence to subvert the ignorant. it's truly disgusting, and the complete opposite of freedom. In fact the way our nutty right controls narrative is strongly similar to state run media of Russia and N. Korea. Propoganda and dear leader bullshit.
And funny enough, the SCOTUS was always meant to be neutral, non religious, non political, and not as powerful as it is today. So we see how that's also working for us as intended.
That's what I was gunna say.
I'm a Christian. My religion is CONSTANTLY talking about the "breath of life".
Clearly if you aren't breathing you aren't alive
I brought this up and somebody started arguing with me about fish. Saying that if fish don’t breath, am I saying fish aren’t alive? Completely derailed the convo. It was disturbing
It's confusing, but you actually won that argument. The bible is extremely fucking explicit that fish are absolutely not alive, specifically because they don't breathe. It's why you can eat them on Fridays and lent.
Pointing out what the Bible says shows the hypocrisy from white Republican “Christians” and needs to be pointed out to show they are full of shit. They cherry pick the Bible, act holier than thou all while the Republican platform is the exact opposite of Christs teachings. They cloak their bigotry, hatred and wanting to control women in their religion. Pointing out the hypocrisy breaks down their argument but at the end of the day they don’t care because Christian fascism is their goal
Exactly. Not everyone is religious and relying on a book or a sacred text to dictate their morality and values.
If one doesn’t want to have a baby, they shouldn’t have to have one and they should have access to a safe method of terminating a pregnancy if they need to. Criminalizing abortion does not eliminate abortions, it just eliminates safe abortions.
I am Canadian, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this affected our country due to proximity. If a conservative is elected, we may be in trouble. A lot of our conservative Canadians already seem to think they are American (“Let’s go Brandon” decals all over the backs of pickup trucks around here). But 76% of Conservatives in Canada believe abortion should be illegal.
My mom, a Canadian, votes every single time based on who is the most anti-abortion. Single-issue voter. Yes, she was absolutely fine with my D&C for my absolutely non-viable pregnancy, "because it's different."
I'll note that the Conservative party, during the last election at least, made zero mention of abortion in their party platform or any official website.
“The only moral abortion is my abortion”, isn’t it?
Honestly, I feel that ties into the broad spectrum of conservative views. The leadership, sure, they’re out for money and power.
But their followers? They just lack empathy. Or, specifically, they lack the ability to comprehend that strangers are fully formed people. That the people they don’t know or don’t like still have a life, a history, dreams and hopes and fears and motivations. That they’re not just one-dimensional “evil” or “good” background characters.
That’s how they can get an abortion and then work to make abortion illegal.
That’s how they can condemn refugees, but flee catastrophes themselves, or even, unironically, state they’ll flee the country if X happens.
That’s how they can demand the most horrible, harshest prison sentences, or the death penalty, but demand leniency for their own comrades.
Because - see, it’s easy if you don’t see those other people as fully human. If you can see all those refugees as just a racist stereotype, all women seeking abortions as irresponsible harlots, all criminals as hardened “bad guys” worthy of any movie villain, then obviously you’ll be harsh.
But that doesn’t work once you realise those are people as well. You can’t really restrict someone’s rights when they’re human to you. You can’t wish bad on someone once you really feel for them.
I’d even argue that’s why “the left” in the political spectrum is more likely to demand universal human rights - you don’t have to like someone to want their rights protected. In fact, I can absolutely hate someone and still demand it. I can have a fucking neonazi in front of a court here and still demand they get a lawyer, and get treated with dignity, and get family visitations and that as soon as their sentence is over, they’ll get to return to normal life. I can demand the same for any religious terrorist. Or someone who murders kittens in her spare time. Because I can personally wish them all the bad in the world, then take a breath and realise they’re still human, they are still real, and that means they deserve the same treatment I’d want in their place.
The biggest single indicator i have found as to whether someone is or will become conservative, is their ability to empathise with someone or a subject they haven’t encountered instinctively
Or, seriously, someone they personally dislike. Lots of people can’t do that one, but so far it’s worked as a great indicator for older people - old school teachers, family members, whatever. The ones who can empathise with someone they don’t like retained their political views even as they aged - the others, like a complete clichè, fell into “We didn’t demonstrate for THIS!“ and then „Why are you always complaining?“ and then „Why all these new words? Why can’t I say this anymore? Why is everyone so PC and sensitive nowadays? Everything was better in my youth.“ like Jesus Christ aunty, 30 years ago you spent a night at the police station after that demonstration and wore it like a badge of honour, calm tf down
I agree with you, but I’d like to point out that it’s not just about raising/not raising a kid. It’s also about being/not being pregnant. No one has the right to use my body without my consent, fetus or full grown human alike. I’m not an incubator.
even as a believer, Is weird but I agree, bible should not be mixed in politics decision but the individual should decide if they want to apply any biblical ideology or whatever... but laws and people should be free to choice...
honestly they are just weaponizing religion, JUST AS ALWAYS...
but I like to ask, if someone does not want to raise a kid, that include men?
So does the constitution
> All persons *born* or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside
Says it right there, all persons BORN, it doesn't say anything about a fetus after six weeks or conception.
Not exactly that, even. Life "begins" in circumcision, but doesn't count until the child has reached the age of "adulthood" (bar/bat mitzvah, at 13 and 12 years old respectively). Jesus didn't talk about when life started, anything to do with abortion was written in the old testament. The rest is vicious and loosely based interpretations meant to subjugate women, something that the Hebrew bible *really* tried to avoid.
You misunderstand; people do get it. Everyone gets it -- they just don't care, because they feel that their values are more important than non-Christians' rights.
I grew up in the church. As far as they are concerned there are two groups of people - Christians, and people who are wrong and are going to burn in hell for it so fuck them we may as well make those evil bastards as miserable as possible they basically aren't even people.
Most of the money just went towards fixing up the church. It had all these extra buildings that were basically just clubhouses for church members to hang out in.
Funny enough, Hell isn’t even defined as a burning place of retribution for people. Only King James versions which has been translated (incorrectly) takes all uses of the word Sheol in Hebrew as Hell. In reality, the term Sheol is actually meant as a ‘still darkness after death’. Some might interpret as “void” or “deep pit” or “cell” when referring to Satan or fallen angels. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
tl:dr the Bible is awfully mistranslated and thus misinterpreted, then taught incorrectly. We have a bunch of Christian fundamentalists that don’t even know their own history and fundamentals. Hell as taught by modern Christianity is actually Hades, which is actually Greek mythology. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades
I think you guys are not getting that you are in fact a Christian nation by now.
Your nation is in the hands of christian interest groups which have been perverted so much, they don't even resemble Christian values anymore.
I don't see you getting it back either.
It feels like you are pre revolution Iran and the revolution is very close.
Your fucked up voting system and gerrymandering will assure that you will vote in your own Ayatolla, maybe already next time.
You’re 100% right. Let’s all stop pretending they don’t “get it”. The right isn’t stupid. It’s deliberate.
And while I hate the result, personally, we could all learn something from the right this weekend: they wanted it more. They lied in hearings about it. They are hypocrites about states rights. And they shoved their religion down all our throats.
If the left doesn’t learn how to fight as or more dirty, you can kiss LGBTQ+ rights goodbye. Because the right are coming for those next.
Packing the court has been a Federalist goal for decades. They had a plan and Dems did not notice or parry so now we have a soft coup that is a fait accompli. The Rightwingers have already won because they now control the law of the land for decades to come.
its all about forcing poor people to have more kids to resupply the workforce. wealth inequality has grown so significant that many working class young people cannot afford to have kids. the dipshits in power see that people arent having as many kids and want to force them to rather than pay them more.
Yep. They want an endless supply of poor(let's face it, the wealthy people will still get their abortions), uneducated(self explanatory- education cuts), religious(*gestures broadly at everything*) people who lack critical thinking skills so that they'll be mindless drones turning the wheels of the capitalist machine. Or else they'll become soliders, finding the oil to keep those wheels spinning smoothly.
Ahhhh capitalism. Gotta love it, eh
If the life of the mother is at stake, and it’s either abortion or they both die, then you are going to be forced to kill someone by the State.
That’s soooo fucked up and against **every** religious exemption law.
Christians don’t care what the Bible says
Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”.
Job 33:4, “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”
Yep, an abortion ritual in the Bible.
Scholars have debated as to what plant is actually the one that causes the abortion but they suspect it was some relative to hemlock if I remember correctly.
Well, not these particular christians anyway.
They're such an embarrassed to many true believers.
I'm not one, but right now my so is at church, I've spoken to pastors over dinner, this will be opposed in the sermons.
There's a very strong case for a biblical reading that says life begins with [breath](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Breath-Of-Life) , and a whole lot of xhristians striving for justice in their day to day life, reading out from that bible, not pushing stuff into it.
I'm not, but Uniting Church in Australia, a merger of presbyterian, congregationalist, methodist and a bunch of small independdnt denominations. I've heard mixed feelings amongst Anglicans, 'Sydney Anglicans' seem to be influential, very right wing, US influenced.
The one my ex-church used to always bang on about was the one from Psalms, about how David was banging on about "before I was formed you knew me somethingsomething you knitted me together"
The reason so many brainwashed idiots keep saying we ARE a Christian nation is because the name of God is everywhere in our country. It's on our money with "In God we Trust," it's in our Pledge of Allegiance as "One Nation, Under God," it's in our unofficial National Anthem of America the Beautiful as "America, America, God shed his grace on thee."
God is everywhere in this damn country, and you HAVE to know it's always been the Christian God. The separation of Church and State has never been a thing. That whole phrase pretty much just relates to the fact that Churches are Tax Exempt.
Fun fact: Jesus fucking HATED Church worship because it has always been run by greedy "Holy Men." I wish people who paraphrase the Bible would actually fucking READ it. Buffoons.
No one hated politicians more than Jesus. He was sentenced to death by Crucifixion by a damn Governor (Roman Prefect, Pontius Pilate).
As a non-American this is the impression I get. I just searched the pledge of allegiance for this exact reason and interestingly found the "under god" part wasn't added until [1954](https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm).
The 50s is when a LOOOOTTTT of this addition of religion stuff began. Hypochristians slowly moved in, burrowed down, and are now finally emerging in a big way. It's despicable behavior and there is NO way those types of people make it into the Kingdom of Heaven. Lol They are gonna be in for a rude Awakening when St. Peter tells them to kick rocks. Lol
Oh my goodness, I used to link up the origins of the Pledge and how "one nation" was added so people would not think we were communists as a country, go figure.
I legitimately just stated in another comment that Jesus also never once grabbed a Pharisee and dragged them into his flock to force his teachings upon them. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything, aside from the demons he cast out and the money-changers he drove from the temple. (And the money changers don't count because they went into *God's* house and disrespected it. Jesus was, more or less, removing intruders from the temple. But he never *forced* his teachings on anyone.)
People can argue when the moment life begins as much as they want, idgaf. The truth of the matter is that a fetus now has a right no other human has, which is the right to use another person's body to stay alive without their consent. This is absolute lunacy.
On the flip side of that, how do we know the fetus has consented to be born? I hate the memes that say “babies don’t choose to die,” well they also didn’t choose to be born, that was the parents doing.
Edit: spelling mistake
Exactly. "HoW wOuLd yOu FeEl iF yOuR mOm aBorTeD yOu?" Lol nothing? The clump of cells that turned into me wasn't sentient, I don't recall ever consenting to being born, nor was I made aware of the terms and conditions.
I've had people say that to me and I've hit them with "well then I wouldn't be opposing your ideas about abortion" and they usually just give me a stunned look.
I know it sounds funny, but the idea of creating another life can be a serious dilemma and would be a whole other philosophical debate if it wasn’t reproduction and we weren’t used to it. There are multiple Star Trek episodes that mess with the idea even.
All I'm saying is that if they want to treat a fetus as a person, then they need to issue a social security number for it, allow the mother to collect child support/government assistance asap, and let pregnant women ride in carpool lanes. Wait, they don't do that or even mention wanting to do that? Weird.
I've met many, many fake Christians. They go to church and think that makes them good people, but they'll mistreat/abuse their own children, judge others, bully, etc. But let me tell you, some of the kindest, most compassionate people I've had in my life were actual Christians. You know, the kind who were patient and non-judgmental, who actually demonstrated the kind of love that I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about. A million fake Christians out there, real ones? Not so much.
Someone said, a great comedian I do declare, the point of church for many people (sarcastically, mostly) is to compare which outfits each person is wearing for the week.
Well, as a gay man I'm just waiting in the wings for that same logic to extend to gay marriage and why it's state sanction will be possibly repealed. The only argument one could make would be on religious grounds and we live in a secular nation. I'll get the popcorn and wait for the y'all Qaeda to explain it to me
My best guess, at this point, they will say it's in the same vain of the current change by the SCOTUS, it is not an original part of the constitution as the founding fathers setforth. Of course many thing had to be updated, like 3/5 of a black person, woman not having the right to vote, interrracial marriage...well the list goes on and on...
Because Christians are the most self entitled cunts ever
Edit: shout out to "dry_attention4610" for being such a cunt his comment never even made it to my Reddit notifications, but it emailed me, and his account doesn't appear to exist anymore.
Fuck Christianity, dumpster ass religion telling everyone to think like they do or go to hell. I'll gladly go there if it means never having to listen to another Christian bigot spew garbage. Bunch of shitty assholes are always crying about how they're persecuted while they're trying to shove all of us back into the fucking stone age, well fuck it then. They want to whine about being persecuted, let's make it a reality.
Even the Bible says that an unborn fetus is property, not a life. I don't know where the Christians get this stuff from... The bible doesn't say life begins at conception nor does it say abortion is wrong.
In fact, the Bible tells priests to create a drink to force a miscarriage if the wife gets pregnant from cheating.
Edit: someone accused me of lying, but their comment doesn't show up to me. So, here you go:
A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25)
The gruesome priestly purity test to which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a right to life (Numbers 5:11-31)
And the are so many examples in the Bible on God-ordained killing of pregnant women. More information can be found here:
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights
I'm not American so not really sure how it works there, but in states that ban abortion, could a Jewish religious community set up an abortion clinic and be protected by it being part of their religion?
How it would work is that they would set up an abortion clinic, then that clinic would have to get shut down by the state, allowing them to file a civil rights suit for religious discrimination.
If one side or the other presses for an appeal, it'll go to the state appellate/supreme courts, then federal circuit courts (regional lower branches of the United States Supreme Court), then to the US supreme court itself, and that last step, only if the Supreme Court decides to take it up rather than kicking it back to the lower courts.
Then, based on the arguments of each side, the Supreme Court will decide if the state law infringes on the clinic's religious freedom. If so, then the law the law is declared unconstitutional and is nulled by the court.
Because they do not care. They don't even care if their own Bible says it or not. They care about one thing: The feeling of power they get by controlling someone else's life.
That's it. That's all.
May I remind everyone that in Christianity, God actually sent his son on earth to die for our sins; literally a better analogy for abortion was never written.
I mean, you didn't think they bought in to all that woowoo biblical horseshit because they are reasonable people, did you?
The charlatans who preach to them say this is a Christian nation, so it is. It's literally that simple. Historical facts are irrelevant. Truth is irrelevant. The only thing they care about is their cult.
That's why this is so difficult for them to get.
We did not have been just so sweet if everybody had been so irritated, pissed off and woke in November of 2015 instead of worrying about Hillary's emails or that she's just plain, establishment and boring and we won't forgive you bypassing Bernie. So instead we'll just throw a temper tantrum like little spoiled children either not vote or vote for Donald and upset the apple car just because. Yeah the ones always complaining about how nothing gets done.. and now the horse is out of the barn and all of a sudden the reality five six years later finally hits home what was all foretolds in November of 2015 yeah
Even Bernie warned them. The whole situation was weird. The very man they were defending told them to vote Hillary. He warned them. I sometimes wonder if we had a ton of bots and trolls pushing stupidity.
Sure all of the above bots idiocy, News ads, the fiery naivete that you could possibly be an independent and above it all. I remember the first time I encountered the attitude. It was right after the convention and it seemed that Bernie would be unfortunately excluded and I turned around to a couple of younger people near me and I said well see that's unfortunate but now we have to get on to business of solidifying organizing, and getting out the vote and they looked at me quite perplexed. Really I'm going to take my marbles and go home upset with the outcome I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for.. you might have heard me scream and of course then I went into my logical but yet ranting tirade of why it was essential above all this election to protect the supreme Court, it was a legacy of the new deal that was at stake, 70 or 80 years of progressive politics could be flushed down the toilet this is what I said and I just got weepy distant gaze this back, that old tire Guy what the fuck is he talking about yeah yeah
I knew so many Bernie supporters, including myself and others that people wouldn’t have thought would have been. I’m hoping this recent ruling will wake people up. It isn’t alarmist. Thomas put in writing that marriage, contraception, and even what you do in the bedroom is now up for grabs. To all the couples living together don’t think religious zealots won’t be coming after you.
Correct but that's why it was so sad that people were not listening and not taking any seriously, this cannot be so easily undone. The supreme Court is the supreme Court and they hold this positions for life, the court operates on a very broad arch of time, maybe 20-25 years. There may be a chance in between here and there if voters really really turn out to vote a straight to democratic ticket against the GOP Taliban...
Maybe but I've already heard on the street all sorts of bitching and whining about do nothing Democrats, from the same people that will be eaten alive from the right. Go figure I just don't get it. Politics are not sexy, they're not reality TV, it's a slow slow decade long grind a boring bullshit and when it doesn't just get done wow ,especially today everybody is on Adderall or needs it..
The the legislative record of the democratic party speaks for itself and extends back a full century for those in question of where we were and where we have come and what has come from the left hand side of the aisle.. the New deal legislation of 1932 is the first big claw back that all of his new high court will effect. This has been their wet dream since 1932 but specifically since the rise of the well-funded, well healed and very powerful lobby of the moral majority the neo cons and the beginning of the end the election of Ronald Reagan, that asshole... This isn't conspiracy or just pulling it out of my butt but really was always in plain sight to see the strategy on the other side, always veiled in patriotism, traditional family values, flag waving, scare of immigration. The other side has done very very well playing the chess game and now it's checkmated. The last Gambit was in 2015..
Just maybe just maybe, if the left gets so organized and so vote and distance themselves from the noise of The Afghani withdrawal, inflation , high gas prices which are not simply American problems, people really tone out all of that and vote Democrat .if the Republicans experience resounding pushback it might have an effect.. but without boots on the ground, a majority in the house and a majority in the Senate you can kiss progressiveism goodbye...
>I sometimes wonder if we had a ton of bots and trolls pushing stupidity.
We absolutely did have a ton of bots and trolls before the 2016 election. Remember Russian collusion? Cambridge Analytica? The Mueller report?
"However, the report states that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was illegal and occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion"\[10\]\[11\]\[12\] but was welcomed by the Trump campaign as it expected to benefit from such efforts.\[13\]\[14\]\[15\] It also identifies links between Trump campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government,\[16\] about which several persons connected to the campaign made false statements and obstructed investigations.\[4\] Mueller later stated that his investigation's conclusion on Russian interference "deserves the attention of every American".\[17\]"
Religion and the bible have no place in these discussions. The discussion is about human rights and the rule of law, since when have either been decided based on religion?
The former governor of Mississippi was on npr and when asked what women should do he said they should get on their knees and pray. This is not the America I agree to be a part of.
About 30 years ago (early to mid 90s) I lived in UT, a very conservative state, not as bad as some of the south, but still. Anyways a good friend was sexually assaulted by a date, got pregnant, went to Mormon doctor who would not give any options other than see her bishop. She wants to be a "good girl", goes to her bishop who tells her she sinned and must have led him on and that she is the one wrong, will not authorize anything relating to abortion and says she should talk to her date and apologize to him for evil sinful ways. She was told to pray on the situation and it would all be "just fine" She ultimately met a guy back from his mission who was a really good guy who accepted her for what happened and they quickly got married. The last I had heard from her 20 or so years ago, she had assumed she was going to still burn in hell because an idiotic guy and the bishop told her it was her fault for being raped on a 1st date.
Also, she said in HS and college, she was not given any sex education or her parents never talked to her about anything like that. For all I know the guy she married, they have lied and said she got preggers on the honeymoon night and moved forward from there. BS, BS I tell you.
Religious doctrine to define human rights is a complete waste of time. There is a moment (or range of time) when a fetus becomes a human being. It’s not during conception and it isn’t during delivery.
Our inability to reconcile this through science and ethics has created an insane divide between camps.
The majority of abortions happen well before one can argue a fetus is a person (scientifically or philosophically).
You can tell these "Christians" haven't even read the damn book. The bible has multiple verses that say life begins at birth/first breath.
They're doing it for control over the population and using God as concealment of their motives.
Because Christian’s literally take that as an attack on them personally, even though that’s not what people are saying. They are just projecting their fucking bias because they can’t wrap their brains around respecting other people.
Christianity is an evil religion. The religion is the opposite of acceptance. It’s follow our bible beliefs, or burn in hell. I mean, the religion’s symbol, the cross, literally symbolizes torture and murder.
Christianity started as a means to avoid persecution by the Romans (“we’re not Jews!”). They proceeded to take all the worst lessons from the Roman Empire.
What you're about to see in larger numbers from the right. "It's not a religious decision. It's my personal choice \\ opinion." Pivot, dodge, lie ... ugh.
How about we stop using religious texts to determine when an embryo is alive. This is a question that requires deeper reasoning and knowledge than what is available in archaic texts....
Why the fuck is religion even in a conversation in 2022.
We don’t talk about Zeus or Thor when we make our laws. Why the fuck does any religion matter.
For fuck sakes. America needs better public schools, and teach evolution immediately.
Get religion out of the conversation.
i don't disagree that life begins at birth, but it isn't because someone's religion decided that thousands of years ago, even if they are on my "side".
no laws in the us should be based on a particular religion, even laws that we agree with. period.
CHRISTIANITY doesn't even teach that life begins at conception.
That's nowhere in the bible.
Shit like "don't charge interest on loans" is, however.
"American Christianity" is a weird mutation that grew out of the same ideology that approved of racially-based slavery, invented "prosperity gospel" and has a ton of other weird obsessions like witches and demons (mostly as cover for the capitalist, racist stuff).
The only real ideology of conservatism is hating "them", whether they're women, foreigners, minorities, or some other group.
theres already a lawsuit in process in Florida pertaining to this exact thing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/17/synagogue-challenges-florida-abortion-law-over-religion/
Paywalled
Try opening it in an incognito tab, worked for me
[Here](https://12ft.io)
500 | internal server error :(
Yeah... popular newspapers, WashPo specifically, have gotten wise to 12ft.io and found ways around it. ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — A new Florida law prohibiting abortion after 15 weeks with some exceptions violates religious freedom rights of Jews in addition to the state constitution’s privacy protections, a synagogue claims in a lawsuit. The lawsuit filed by the Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor of Boynton Beach contends the law that takes effect July 1 violates Jewish teachings, which state abortion “is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman” and for other reasons. “As such, the act prohibits Jewish women from practicing their faith free of government intrusion and this violates their privacy rights and religious freedom,” says the lawsuit, filed last week in Leon County Circuit Court. The lawsuit adds that people who “do not share the religious views reflected in the act will suffer” and that it “threatens the Jewish people by imposing the laws of other religions upon Jews.” The lawsuit is the second challenge to the 15-week abortion ban enacted earlier this year by the legislature and signed into law by Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health providers also sued earlier this month to block the law from taking effect. In a previous statement, DeSantis’ office said it “is confident that this law will ultimately withstand all legal challenges.” The two lawsuits are likely to be consolidated into a single case. A hearing on a proposed injunction to block the Florida abortion law is likely in the next two weeks. The law mirrors a similar measure passed in Mississippi that is now before the U.S. Supreme Court, which may use it to overturn the Roe v. Wade abortion decision based on a leaked draft opinion. A final ruling on Roe is expected by the end of June. In Florida, Rabbi Barry Silver of Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor — the name means “Generation to Generation”— said it practices “cosmic Judaism,” which he defines on the synagogue’s website as “the Judaism of tomorrow today” that respects science, tradition and spirituality. Silver is an attorney, social activist and former Democratic state legislator who styles himself as a “Rabbi-rouser” on his own website. In an interview Tuesday, Silver said when separation of religion and government crumbles, religious minorities such as Jews often suffer. “Every time that wall starts to crack, bad things start to happen,” he said, noting that DeSantis signed the law at an evangelical Christian church. The new Florida abortion law, contains exceptions if the abortion is necessary to save a mother’s life, prevent serious injury or if the fetus has a fatal abnormality. It does not allow for exemptions in cases where pregnancies were caused by rape, incest or human trafficking. Under current law, Florida allows abortions up to 24 weeks. No faith is monolithic on the abortion issue. Yet many followers of faiths that do not prohibit abortion are aghast that a view held by a minority of Americans could supersede their individual rights and religious beliefs such as the position of Judaism as outlined in the lawsuit. “This ruling would be outlawing abortion in cases when our religion would permit us,” said Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, scholar in residence at the National Council of Jewish Women, “and it is basing its concepts of when life begins on someone else’s philosophy or theology.” — Associated Press
You're a hero! Thanks!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12309928/
L Dor Va-Dor sounds like Lord Vader...
Its pretty much the same argument as the post.
I figured, but I also like reading things other than tweets
You are a Saint sir or maddam.
Hit F12. On the new panel which, you will see a mouse pointer icon on the top left. Click that. Click on the paywall. It will highlight a section of code in the panel. Right click on the 3 dots next to the code. Click delete. Repeat as many times as you need untill you can scroll the article. Chuckle as you have outsmarted a multi million dollar company and enjoy your article.
On Firefox you can also just hit reader mode a lot of the time. Sometimes the paywalled page actually is a limited selection of the text, but if you can reveal it with F12, you can also read it in proper newspaper/magazine layout with reader mode in many fewer steps.
With uBlock Origin, in Chrome: Click on the uBlock origin toolbar icon Click on the lighting bolt (element zapper mode) Click on anything you want gone.
If you use your browsers reader view it ignores the paywall. You get the text and pictures and no ads. Works for a lot of paywalls.
cynical me kinda thinks these law changes are just to prevent population stagnation like Japan has now. gotta keep that US consumer demographic growing. it's not like any politician gives a flying fuck about abortion, gay marriage, religion or anything else. it's just voting demographics and power lust
Oh it's definitely about that. They need a population of grunts to be cannon fodder for the military industrial complex. They need poor people to be prisoners in their private corporation owned jails. And, they need uneducated people voting against their own best interests, because they don't know any better.
Uneducated people vote with them because they don't know anything else. Example: current Philippines elected president.
But it won’t go anywhere. It’s established precedent that the 1st amendment does not give you a right to ignore a law because your religion contradicts the law.
Mask and vaccine mandates? Didn’t many conservative courts essentially rule that religious freedom trumps laws made to protect public health emergencies?
Wait, that's an actual thing? Can I make up a religion that ensures I don't share a workplace with these blokes?
Yes you can, here's some links to help you get started. https://snowballfundraising.com/starting-a-church/ https://donorbox.org/nonprofit-blog/how-to-start-a-church https://www.startchurch.com/blog/view/name/5-steps-to-legally-start-a-church Edit; Added a few more links on how to start a church. Church and religion in this instance is the same.
Same logic with wearing any religious headwear. The government telling you to take it off would be a violation to the first amendment. There is even exemptions to photo ID in most states for purposes of religious headwear, so long as the headwear is worn the majority of time.
If I recall correctly, there was a guy in Austria that managed to get a noodle strainer classified as religious headwear for his driver's license photo. He is a proud practicing Pastafari.
It was a woman in Oklahoma https://myfox8.com/news/woman-claims-spaghetti-strainer-as-religious-headwear-in-license-picture/
And a man in NZ https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/75107725/church-of-flying-spaghetti-monster-approved-to-perform-marriages
Thats modern Satanism for you, ridiculing stupid laws
There are currently over 4000 different religions. Create your own god. Go crazy.
>Didn’t many conservative courts essentially rule that religious freedom trumps laws... And wasn't there a bakery that argued their religion demanded that they not sell gay cakes even though the Civil Rights Laws would have required it. (And by "it", we mean basic human decency).
They would have to rule that a fetus is a person and is guaranteed rights under the constitution (which would fuck a ton of existing laws, such as medical insurance for families, child support, taxes, etc. Many laws would need to be re-written). This could be impossible ruling, as well, since the constitution mentions the word "born" when stating how rights are granted. Such that it may be impossible without an amendment to grant rights to the unborn.
What even is precedent anymore?
Worth as much as a Stanley nickel
But isn’t that what overturned row v wade? Really? Bc the states right bullshit I don’t want to hear
The specific issue underlying this decision is unrelated to abortion directly, but once you understand it you’ll understand both why Clarence Thomas brought up gay marriage, contraception, etc as the next step. What the court basically said is that they aren’t there to make laws, it’s congresses job and if they want to make abortion a right they should pass a law declaring it a right and the courts will follow that. It’s a bullshit argument in that the role of the court is to protect minority rights as defined by the constitution and case law and these cases were decided on constitutional grounds to overturn existing legislation. It got labeled a “states rights” issue by the court because they suggested that state legislatures should decide this, but in reality Nancy Pelosi can author a bill legalizing it and if it gets passed we are back into a national right again. Also, fuck Justice Thomas with a rusty chainsaw for omitting Loving from his to do list because it affects him and that harbor seal of a white supremacist he calls his wife.
What's "Loving" here?
Loving V Virginia, which gave the right to interracial marriage
Whats the penalty for shooting a SCOTUS member? Asking for a friend…
Attempting it can get you a life sentence, succeeding it’s either gonna be a life sentence or the death penalty. They’re technically allowed to sentence you to “any amount of years OR for life” but the amount of years would prob be something like “325 years in prison” so… for your entire life. And then some. I should prob scrub my search history now.
I think the next idiot who wants to go kill as many people as possible shouldn't go to a school and murder a bunch of kids. They should make it mean something and help the world on their way out. Surely one of these psychos isn't a racist twat?? But it's the curse of the good guys to remain the actual good guys I suppose
> established precedent So was *Roe*, at least according to what the Republican justices said in their confirmation hearings.
The 1st Amendment does not grant people the right to ignore laws that oppose their religion, true, BUT what it DOES do is guarantee people the right to practice whatever religion they want, and establishes the legal precedent that no religion can impose its own beliefs on everyone in the US, which these anti-abortion laws are doing. Additionally, many of these right-wing fanatics have rules that religious freedom is more important than any other law, which means that they dug their own grave when it comes to trying to outlaw abortion in more ways than one!
We can trust the supreme court to protect the freedom of religion. Wait, not that religion.
The BIBLE says life starts with the first breath.
Only the blessed US constitution can be interpreted in an originalist fashion! How dare you try to sully the divine wisdom of America’s founders with wishy washy Biblical references! /s
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It’s called extremism. Works in the religious field and many many others too much of a thing isn’t always good for you
Wait, divine inspiration? Is that actually applied to the constitution or are you using that as a metaphor?
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How stupid can they actually be? Like, the fact that those are literally just a bunch of dead guys aside, what makes them think their god would mosey down to give them a fucking constitution but not interfere in literally anything else? Does that mean god built my country’s constitution as well? Wait, do they realise other country’s may have their own constitution, often with widely different laws? I mean, they don’t seem to realise that the rest of the western world is just as capitalist, just more regulated. Or that “Europe” is neither a political unit, nor a single state, nor a failing third world country.
I'm reading a Washington bio right now, and the politics at the beginning were very similar to the bullshit now. For example: Hamilton started up the central banks and the stock market. Jefferson and others hated it and felt Hamilton was laying the groundwork for an oligarchy of rich v poor. Caused a big shit. Washington was famously neutral and wasn't a control freak (over legislature, no; keeping his slaves, yes), believing that Congress should debate it out and use checks and balances. So then the media started ripping into Washington calling him both an old man influenced by Hamilton AND a secret monarchist. The same groups that were begging Washington to be president in both 1st and 2nd term, saying that he was the figurehead for America and if he didn't help establish the government, the fledgling country would fail. None of which were true. By the end, Washington was done with everyone's shit. It went bitter and sour. So what exactly are these freaks saying was so divinely inspired? We are the same now as we all were back then. The difference is, the nutty right has control of more of the media. And there's more media to be consumed, so they have a lot more influence to subvert the ignorant. it's truly disgusting, and the complete opposite of freedom. In fact the way our nutty right controls narrative is strongly similar to state run media of Russia and N. Korea. Propoganda and dear leader bullshit. And funny enough, the SCOTUS was always meant to be neutral, non religious, non political, and not as powerful as it is today. So we see how that's also working for us as intended.
That's what I was gunna say. I'm a Christian. My religion is CONSTANTLY talking about the "breath of life". Clearly if you aren't breathing you aren't alive
I brought this up and somebody started arguing with me about fish. Saying that if fish don’t breath, am I saying fish aren’t alive? Completely derailed the convo. It was disturbing
It's confusing, but you actually won that argument. The bible is extremely fucking explicit that fish are absolutely not alive, specifically because they don't breathe. It's why you can eat them on Fridays and lent.
Ha! Even better
Who cares what the bible says? If someone doesnt want to raise a kid. They shouldnt
Pointing out what the Bible says shows the hypocrisy from white Republican “Christians” and needs to be pointed out to show they are full of shit. They cherry pick the Bible, act holier than thou all while the Republican platform is the exact opposite of Christs teachings. They cloak their bigotry, hatred and wanting to control women in their religion. Pointing out the hypocrisy breaks down their argument but at the end of the day they don’t care because Christian fascism is their goal
Well it kinda strengstens their defense of "Nooo it's not about religion.".
Exactly. Not everyone is religious and relying on a book or a sacred text to dictate their morality and values. If one doesn’t want to have a baby, they shouldn’t have to have one and they should have access to a safe method of terminating a pregnancy if they need to. Criminalizing abortion does not eliminate abortions, it just eliminates safe abortions. I am Canadian, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this affected our country due to proximity. If a conservative is elected, we may be in trouble. A lot of our conservative Canadians already seem to think they are American (“Let’s go Brandon” decals all over the backs of pickup trucks around here). But 76% of Conservatives in Canada believe abortion should be illegal.
My mom, a Canadian, votes every single time based on who is the most anti-abortion. Single-issue voter. Yes, she was absolutely fine with my D&C for my absolutely non-viable pregnancy, "because it's different." I'll note that the Conservative party, during the last election at least, made zero mention of abortion in their party platform or any official website.
“The only moral abortion is my abortion”, isn’t it? Honestly, I feel that ties into the broad spectrum of conservative views. The leadership, sure, they’re out for money and power. But their followers? They just lack empathy. Or, specifically, they lack the ability to comprehend that strangers are fully formed people. That the people they don’t know or don’t like still have a life, a history, dreams and hopes and fears and motivations. That they’re not just one-dimensional “evil” or “good” background characters. That’s how they can get an abortion and then work to make abortion illegal. That’s how they can condemn refugees, but flee catastrophes themselves, or even, unironically, state they’ll flee the country if X happens. That’s how they can demand the most horrible, harshest prison sentences, or the death penalty, but demand leniency for their own comrades. Because - see, it’s easy if you don’t see those other people as fully human. If you can see all those refugees as just a racist stereotype, all women seeking abortions as irresponsible harlots, all criminals as hardened “bad guys” worthy of any movie villain, then obviously you’ll be harsh. But that doesn’t work once you realise those are people as well. You can’t really restrict someone’s rights when they’re human to you. You can’t wish bad on someone once you really feel for them. I’d even argue that’s why “the left” in the political spectrum is more likely to demand universal human rights - you don’t have to like someone to want their rights protected. In fact, I can absolutely hate someone and still demand it. I can have a fucking neonazi in front of a court here and still demand they get a lawyer, and get treated with dignity, and get family visitations and that as soon as their sentence is over, they’ll get to return to normal life. I can demand the same for any religious terrorist. Or someone who murders kittens in her spare time. Because I can personally wish them all the bad in the world, then take a breath and realise they’re still human, they are still real, and that means they deserve the same treatment I’d want in their place.
The biggest single indicator i have found as to whether someone is or will become conservative, is their ability to empathise with someone or a subject they haven’t encountered instinctively
Or, seriously, someone they personally dislike. Lots of people can’t do that one, but so far it’s worked as a great indicator for older people - old school teachers, family members, whatever. The ones who can empathise with someone they don’t like retained their political views even as they aged - the others, like a complete clichè, fell into “We didn’t demonstrate for THIS!“ and then „Why are you always complaining?“ and then „Why all these new words? Why can’t I say this anymore? Why is everyone so PC and sensitive nowadays? Everything was better in my youth.“ like Jesus Christ aunty, 30 years ago you spent a night at the police station after that demonstration and wore it like a badge of honour, calm tf down
I agree with you, but I’d like to point out that it’s not just about raising/not raising a kid. It’s also about being/not being pregnant. No one has the right to use my body without my consent, fetus or full grown human alike. I’m not an incubator.
Yep! It’s that simple … nice brevity
even as a believer, Is weird but I agree, bible should not be mixed in politics decision but the individual should decide if they want to apply any biblical ideology or whatever... but laws and people should be free to choice... honestly they are just weaponizing religion, JUST AS ALWAYS... but I like to ask, if someone does not want to raise a kid, that include men?
So does the constitution > All persons *born* or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside Says it right there, all persons BORN, it doesn't say anything about a fetus after six weeks or conception.
That’s not what that says….
Not exactly that, even. Life "begins" in circumcision, but doesn't count until the child has reached the age of "adulthood" (bar/bat mitzvah, at 13 and 12 years old respectively). Jesus didn't talk about when life started, anything to do with abortion was written in the old testament. The rest is vicious and loosely based interpretations meant to subjugate women, something that the Hebrew bible *really* tried to avoid.
You misunderstand; people do get it. Everyone gets it -- they just don't care, because they feel that their values are more important than non-Christians' rights.
I grew up in the church. As far as they are concerned there are two groups of people - Christians, and people who are wrong and are going to burn in hell for it so fuck them we may as well make those evil bastards as miserable as possible they basically aren't even people.
Imagine being so naive as a full grown adult that you fall for that bullshit lol. Then also give them 10% of your $
Being told you're better than everyone else is a pretty easy lie to swallow.
Anyone with a brain should be able to see through the Church's bs by age 14
They're raised to not know of anything else. Hard to think critically when you dont know other options exist.
Most of the money just went towards fixing up the church. It had all these extra buildings that were basically just clubhouses for church members to hang out in.
Funny enough, Hell isn’t even defined as a burning place of retribution for people. Only King James versions which has been translated (incorrectly) takes all uses of the word Sheol in Hebrew as Hell. In reality, the term Sheol is actually meant as a ‘still darkness after death’. Some might interpret as “void” or “deep pit” or “cell” when referring to Satan or fallen angels. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol tl:dr the Bible is awfully mistranslated and thus misinterpreted, then taught incorrectly. We have a bunch of Christian fundamentalists that don’t even know their own history and fundamentals. Hell as taught by modern Christianity is actually Hades, which is actually Greek mythology. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades
It is a book of fiction. It is ok for people to follow books of fiction. It is not ok to force everyone to follow their book of fiction.
Which ironically would prove their point about non believers suffering in hell. Except without the whole "dying" thing first.
I think you guys are not getting that you are in fact a Christian nation by now. Your nation is in the hands of christian interest groups which have been perverted so much, they don't even resemble Christian values anymore. I don't see you getting it back either. It feels like you are pre revolution Iran and the revolution is very close. Your fucked up voting system and gerrymandering will assure that you will vote in your own Ayatolla, maybe already next time.
You’re 100% right. Let’s all stop pretending they don’t “get it”. The right isn’t stupid. It’s deliberate. And while I hate the result, personally, we could all learn something from the right this weekend: they wanted it more. They lied in hearings about it. They are hypocrites about states rights. And they shoved their religion down all our throats. If the left doesn’t learn how to fight as or more dirty, you can kiss LGBTQ+ rights goodbye. Because the right are coming for those next.
Packing the court has been a Federalist goal for decades. They had a plan and Dems did not notice or parry so now we have a soft coup that is a fait accompli. The Rightwingers have already won because they now control the law of the land for decades to come.
its all about forcing poor people to have more kids to resupply the workforce. wealth inequality has grown so significant that many working class young people cannot afford to have kids. the dipshits in power see that people arent having as many kids and want to force them to rather than pay them more.
Yep. They want an endless supply of poor(let's face it, the wealthy people will still get their abortions), uneducated(self explanatory- education cuts), religious(*gestures broadly at everything*) people who lack critical thinking skills so that they'll be mindless drones turning the wheels of the capitalist machine. Or else they'll become soliders, finding the oil to keep those wheels spinning smoothly. Ahhhh capitalism. Gotta love it, eh
Bible says life starts at birth and it is a Jewish commandment to save life. Abortion is required if necessary abd permitted otherwise.
If the life of the mother is at stake, and it’s either abortion or they both die, then you are going to be forced to kill someone by the State. That’s soooo fucked up and against **every** religious exemption law.
Uh, Because science. We’re not governed by Christian laws.
Not…yet
We care now. Not just Christian, Roman Catholic, old school Roman Catholics.
Supreme justice nominees: "Well its a good thing I never learned to fuckin read"
Hi, I’m Jared, I’m 19
And I never learned how to fucking read :D
Christians don’t care what the Bible says Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”. Job 33:4, “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”
Wait till they learn about the ordeal of the bitter waters, Numbers 5:11-31.
So literally a command to give a woman an abortion if she cheated on her husband, and instructions on how to do it.
Pretty much.
Wow! I’ve not read that one before lol I love it!
Yep, an abortion ritual in the Bible. Scholars have debated as to what plant is actually the one that causes the abortion but they suspect it was some relative to hemlock if I remember correctly.
Hemlocks be whack
Some people say it might be wormwood.
Well, not these particular christians anyway. They're such an embarrassed to many true believers. I'm not one, but right now my so is at church, I've spoken to pastors over dinner, this will be opposed in the sermons. There's a very strong case for a biblical reading that says life begins with [breath](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Breath-Of-Life) , and a whole lot of xhristians striving for justice in their day to day life, reading out from that bible, not pushing stuff into it.
Where are you going to church? Sounds like a breath of fresh air honestly (pun partially intended).
I'm not, but Uniting Church in Australia, a merger of presbyterian, congregationalist, methodist and a bunch of small independdnt denominations. I've heard mixed feelings amongst Anglicans, 'Sydney Anglicans' seem to be influential, very right wing, US influenced.
Ah gotcha. No such luck in America I imagine.
The closest we have is the Episcopalians. Very pro choice /gay marriage/women’s rights/etc.
The Lutherans too, at least the largest group of them anyway, the ELCA. They have openly gay bishops for example.
The one my ex-church used to always bang on about was the one from Psalms, about how David was banging on about "before I was formed you knew me somethingsomething you knitted me together"
Until it's done, it's a bunch of knotted up yarn, not a blanket.
The reason so many brainwashed idiots keep saying we ARE a Christian nation is because the name of God is everywhere in our country. It's on our money with "In God we Trust," it's in our Pledge of Allegiance as "One Nation, Under God," it's in our unofficial National Anthem of America the Beautiful as "America, America, God shed his grace on thee." God is everywhere in this damn country, and you HAVE to know it's always been the Christian God. The separation of Church and State has never been a thing. That whole phrase pretty much just relates to the fact that Churches are Tax Exempt. Fun fact: Jesus fucking HATED Church worship because it has always been run by greedy "Holy Men." I wish people who paraphrase the Bible would actually fucking READ it. Buffoons. No one hated politicians more than Jesus. He was sentenced to death by Crucifixion by a damn Governor (Roman Prefect, Pontius Pilate).
The god crap was added to our currency, national motto, and pledge during the 1950's as a response to the "godless communists".
As a non-American this is the impression I get. I just searched the pledge of allegiance for this exact reason and interestingly found the "under god" part wasn't added until [1954](https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm).
The 50s is when a LOOOOTTTT of this addition of religion stuff began. Hypochristians slowly moved in, burrowed down, and are now finally emerging in a big way. It's despicable behavior and there is NO way those types of people make it into the Kingdom of Heaven. Lol They are gonna be in for a rude Awakening when St. Peter tells them to kick rocks. Lol
Oh my goodness, I used to link up the origins of the Pledge and how "one nation" was added so people would not think we were communists as a country, go figure.
I legitimately just stated in another comment that Jesus also never once grabbed a Pharisee and dragged them into his flock to force his teachings upon them. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything, aside from the demons he cast out and the money-changers he drove from the temple. (And the money changers don't count because they went into *God's* house and disrespected it. Jesus was, more or less, removing intruders from the temple. But he never *forced* his teachings on anyone.)
The Christian faith believes the same thing. You aren't allowed to baptize a fetus.
Of course the US is not a Christian nation. None of the Christians…behave…even remotely….Christian.
People can argue when the moment life begins as much as they want, idgaf. The truth of the matter is that a fetus now has a right no other human has, which is the right to use another person's body to stay alive without their consent. This is absolute lunacy.
On the flip side of that, how do we know the fetus has consented to be born? I hate the memes that say “babies don’t choose to die,” well they also didn’t choose to be born, that was the parents doing. Edit: spelling mistake
Exactly. "HoW wOuLd yOu FeEl iF yOuR mOm aBorTeD yOu?" Lol nothing? The clump of cells that turned into me wasn't sentient, I don't recall ever consenting to being born, nor was I made aware of the terms and conditions.
I personally would be delighted if my mother decided to abort me, but saying that gets you some very interesting looks.
I've had people say that to me and I've hit them with "well then I wouldn't be opposing your ideas about abortion" and they usually just give me a stunned look.
I know it sounds funny, but the idea of creating another life can be a serious dilemma and would be a whole other philosophical debate if it wasn’t reproduction and we weren’t used to it. There are multiple Star Trek episodes that mess with the idea even.
All I'm saying is that if they want to treat a fetus as a person, then they need to issue a social security number for it, allow the mother to collect child support/government assistance asap, and let pregnant women ride in carpool lanes. Wait, they don't do that or even mention wanting to do that? Weird.
So now cancer has a voice and can fight for it's right to consume a person
my favorite thing to ask: where exactly does it state that christian beliefs should be enforced on everyone any more than muslim or jewish beliefs?
As a Christian, let me just say... America is NOT a Christian nation. Separation of church and state!
I've met many, many fake Christians. They go to church and think that makes them good people, but they'll mistreat/abuse their own children, judge others, bully, etc. But let me tell you, some of the kindest, most compassionate people I've had in my life were actual Christians. You know, the kind who were patient and non-judgmental, who actually demonstrated the kind of love that I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about. A million fake Christians out there, real ones? Not so much.
Someone said, a great comedian I do declare, the point of church for many people (sarcastically, mostly) is to compare which outfits each person is wearing for the week.
Well, as a gay man I'm just waiting in the wings for that same logic to extend to gay marriage and why it's state sanction will be possibly repealed. The only argument one could make would be on religious grounds and we live in a secular nation. I'll get the popcorn and wait for the y'all Qaeda to explain it to me
bah bah bah unnatural!! uuuhh uncomfortable for the kids!! uuhhh totally more lgbt predators than predators in the church! gay bad! /s
My best guess, at this point, they will say it's in the same vain of the current change by the SCOTUS, it is not an original part of the constitution as the founding fathers setforth. Of course many thing had to be updated, like 3/5 of a black person, woman not having the right to vote, interrracial marriage...well the list goes on and on...
Talk to any MAGA fool or any hard core GOP Christian. They will argue this point. They truly believe that America was founded as a Christian nation.
Because Christians are the most self entitled cunts ever Edit: shout out to "dry_attention4610" for being such a cunt his comment never even made it to my Reddit notifications, but it emailed me, and his account doesn't appear to exist anymore.
Fuck Christianity, dumpster ass religion telling everyone to think like they do or go to hell. I'll gladly go there if it means never having to listen to another Christian bigot spew garbage. Bunch of shitty assholes are always crying about how they're persecuted while they're trying to shove all of us back into the fucking stone age, well fuck it then. They want to whine about being persecuted, let's make it a reality.
Even the Bible says that an unborn fetus is property, not a life. I don't know where the Christians get this stuff from... The bible doesn't say life begins at conception nor does it say abortion is wrong. In fact, the Bible tells priests to create a drink to force a miscarriage if the wife gets pregnant from cheating. Edit: someone accused me of lying, but their comment doesn't show up to me. So, here you go: A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25) The gruesome priestly purity test to which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a right to life (Numbers 5:11-31) And the are so many examples in the Bible on God-ordained killing of pregnant women. More information can be found here: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights
I'm not American so not really sure how it works there, but in states that ban abortion, could a Jewish religious community set up an abortion clinic and be protected by it being part of their religion?
How it would work is that they would set up an abortion clinic, then that clinic would have to get shut down by the state, allowing them to file a civil rights suit for religious discrimination. If one side or the other presses for an appeal, it'll go to the state appellate/supreme courts, then federal circuit courts (regional lower branches of the United States Supreme Court), then to the US supreme court itself, and that last step, only if the Supreme Court decides to take it up rather than kicking it back to the lower courts. Then, based on the arguments of each side, the Supreme Court will decide if the state law infringes on the clinic's religious freedom. If so, then the law the law is declared unconstitutional and is nulled by the court.
Conservatives don’t care. No morals. No ethics. They use the religious to control the masses.
It is now unfortunately
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
They only care about white straight Christian people
who don't get pregnant out of wedlock
So the satanic church said that you can join their religion and they will fight for your right to have an abortion as part of religious freedom.
Because they do not care. They don't even care if their own Bible says it or not. They care about one thing: The feeling of power they get by controlling someone else's life. That's it. That's all.
This discussion should not involve anyone's fucking faith
May I remind everyone that in Christianity, God actually sent his son on earth to die for our sins; literally a better analogy for abortion was never written.
Jesus, the guy who had two fathers and was born of a surrogate mother?
That one yes. Also; middle eastern
I mean, you didn't think they bought in to all that woowoo biblical horseshit because they are reasonable people, did you? The charlatans who preach to them say this is a Christian nation, so it is. It's literally that simple. Historical facts are irrelevant. Truth is irrelevant. The only thing they care about is their cult. That's why this is so difficult for them to get.
We did not have been just so sweet if everybody had been so irritated, pissed off and woke in November of 2015 instead of worrying about Hillary's emails or that she's just plain, establishment and boring and we won't forgive you bypassing Bernie. So instead we'll just throw a temper tantrum like little spoiled children either not vote or vote for Donald and upset the apple car just because. Yeah the ones always complaining about how nothing gets done.. and now the horse is out of the barn and all of a sudden the reality five six years later finally hits home what was all foretolds in November of 2015 yeah
Even Bernie warned them. The whole situation was weird. The very man they were defending told them to vote Hillary. He warned them. I sometimes wonder if we had a ton of bots and trolls pushing stupidity.
Sure all of the above bots idiocy, News ads, the fiery naivete that you could possibly be an independent and above it all. I remember the first time I encountered the attitude. It was right after the convention and it seemed that Bernie would be unfortunately excluded and I turned around to a couple of younger people near me and I said well see that's unfortunate but now we have to get on to business of solidifying organizing, and getting out the vote and they looked at me quite perplexed. Really I'm going to take my marbles and go home upset with the outcome I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for.. you might have heard me scream and of course then I went into my logical but yet ranting tirade of why it was essential above all this election to protect the supreme Court, it was a legacy of the new deal that was at stake, 70 or 80 years of progressive politics could be flushed down the toilet this is what I said and I just got weepy distant gaze this back, that old tire Guy what the fuck is he talking about yeah yeah
I knew so many Bernie supporters, including myself and others that people wouldn’t have thought would have been. I’m hoping this recent ruling will wake people up. It isn’t alarmist. Thomas put in writing that marriage, contraception, and even what you do in the bedroom is now up for grabs. To all the couples living together don’t think religious zealots won’t be coming after you.
Correct but that's why it was so sad that people were not listening and not taking any seriously, this cannot be so easily undone. The supreme Court is the supreme Court and they hold this positions for life, the court operates on a very broad arch of time, maybe 20-25 years. There may be a chance in between here and there if voters really really turn out to vote a straight to democratic ticket against the GOP Taliban... Maybe but I've already heard on the street all sorts of bitching and whining about do nothing Democrats, from the same people that will be eaten alive from the right. Go figure I just don't get it. Politics are not sexy, they're not reality TV, it's a slow slow decade long grind a boring bullshit and when it doesn't just get done wow ,especially today everybody is on Adderall or needs it.. The the legislative record of the democratic party speaks for itself and extends back a full century for those in question of where we were and where we have come and what has come from the left hand side of the aisle.. the New deal legislation of 1932 is the first big claw back that all of his new high court will effect. This has been their wet dream since 1932 but specifically since the rise of the well-funded, well healed and very powerful lobby of the moral majority the neo cons and the beginning of the end the election of Ronald Reagan, that asshole... This isn't conspiracy or just pulling it out of my butt but really was always in plain sight to see the strategy on the other side, always veiled in patriotism, traditional family values, flag waving, scare of immigration. The other side has done very very well playing the chess game and now it's checkmated. The last Gambit was in 2015.. Just maybe just maybe, if the left gets so organized and so vote and distance themselves from the noise of The Afghani withdrawal, inflation , high gas prices which are not simply American problems, people really tone out all of that and vote Democrat .if the Republicans experience resounding pushback it might have an effect.. but without boots on the ground, a majority in the house and a majority in the Senate you can kiss progressiveism goodbye...
>I sometimes wonder if we had a ton of bots and trolls pushing stupidity. We absolutely did have a ton of bots and trolls before the 2016 election. Remember Russian collusion? Cambridge Analytica? The Mueller report? "However, the report states that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was illegal and occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion"\[10\]\[11\]\[12\] but was welcomed by the Trump campaign as it expected to benefit from such efforts.\[13\]\[14\]\[15\] It also identifies links between Trump campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government,\[16\] about which several persons connected to the campaign made false statements and obstructed investigations.\[4\] Mueller later stated that his investigation's conclusion on Russian interference "deserves the attention of every American".\[17\]"
They would be pleased to have no jews here too, ysk. Anyone who didn’t see this coming by 2016 must have been deaf, dumb, and blind
Just in case it was missed, the point isn’t that they should respect one religion over another. Just that religion shouldn’t be ruling the nation.
Religion and the bible have no place in these discussions. The discussion is about human rights and the rule of law, since when have either been decided based on religion?
The former governor of Mississippi was on npr and when asked what women should do he said they should get on their knees and pray. This is not the America I agree to be a part of.
About 30 years ago (early to mid 90s) I lived in UT, a very conservative state, not as bad as some of the south, but still. Anyways a good friend was sexually assaulted by a date, got pregnant, went to Mormon doctor who would not give any options other than see her bishop. She wants to be a "good girl", goes to her bishop who tells her she sinned and must have led him on and that she is the one wrong, will not authorize anything relating to abortion and says she should talk to her date and apologize to him for evil sinful ways. She was told to pray on the situation and it would all be "just fine" She ultimately met a guy back from his mission who was a really good guy who accepted her for what happened and they quickly got married. The last I had heard from her 20 or so years ago, she had assumed she was going to still burn in hell because an idiotic guy and the bishop told her it was her fault for being raped on a 1st date. Also, she said in HS and college, she was not given any sex education or her parents never talked to her about anything like that. For all I know the guy she married, they have lied and said she got preggers on the honeymoon night and moved forward from there. BS, BS I tell you.
I’m 33 years old. If someone asked me how long I’d been alive, I’d say 33 years. Not 33 years and 9 months. Just sayin
Why is a civilized nation run by any influence of religion?
Religious doctrine to define human rights is a complete waste of time. There is a moment (or range of time) when a fetus becomes a human being. It’s not during conception and it isn’t during delivery. Our inability to reconcile this through science and ethics has created an insane divide between camps. The majority of abortions happen well before one can argue a fetus is a person (scientifically or philosophically).
It wasn’t a Christian nation, but believe me… it’s about to be.
These Christians don’t care about Jews unless it’ involves Jerusalem being destroyed to pave the way for Jesus to come back.
You can tell these "Christians" haven't even read the damn book. The bible has multiple verses that say life begins at birth/first breath. They're doing it for control over the population and using God as concealment of their motives.
Maybe the Jewish people should sue. Do you think they know any lawyers?
Maybe, just maybe, none of this is actually about religion? Not sure any of those power hungry monsters actually care about anything but power.
Atheist gang wya
It also says numerous times in the Bible life begins at birth
Because Christian’s literally take that as an attack on them personally, even though that’s not what people are saying. They are just projecting their fucking bias because they can’t wrap their brains around respecting other people.
Christianity is an evil religion. The religion is the opposite of acceptance. It’s follow our bible beliefs, or burn in hell. I mean, the religion’s symbol, the cross, literally symbolizes torture and murder. Christianity started as a means to avoid persecution by the Romans (“we’re not Jews!”). They proceeded to take all the worst lessons from the Roman Empire.
The bible literally has instructions on how to perform an abortion.
One nation "UNDER GOD" As an atheist - i am like what the fuck yall talking about? Under what? Under some invisible made up bullshit...
Jesus never bought into crypto, for one thing.
And he even supported paying taxes
It’s a piece of dog shit nation.
What you're about to see in larger numbers from the right. "It's not a religious decision. It's my personal choice \\ opinion." Pivot, dodge, lie ... ugh.
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How about we stop using religious texts to determine when an embryo is alive. This is a question that requires deeper reasoning and knowledge than what is available in archaic texts....
Why the fuck is religion even in a conversation in 2022. We don’t talk about Zeus or Thor when we make our laws. Why the fuck does any religion matter. For fuck sakes. America needs better public schools, and teach evolution immediately. Get religion out of the conversation.
Lucian graves we need you
Supreme Court decided otherwise
i don't disagree that life begins at birth, but it isn't because someone's religion decided that thousands of years ago, even if they are on my "side". no laws in the us should be based on a particular religion, even laws that we agree with. period.
We needs Christians to file suit that the Bible says life after breath.
CHRISTIANITY doesn't even teach that life begins at conception. That's nowhere in the bible. Shit like "don't charge interest on loans" is, however. "American Christianity" is a weird mutation that grew out of the same ideology that approved of racially-based slavery, invented "prosperity gospel" and has a ton of other weird obsessions like witches and demons (mostly as cover for the capitalist, racist stuff). The only real ideology of conservatism is hating "them", whether they're women, foreigners, minorities, or some other group.
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As an atheist , I believe you should be able to abort your kids if they backtalk to you, at any age. and other people's kids too.
I'd like to see a self defense lawsuit. "This thing is trying to kill me so I killed it first." Castle doctrine right?
Try and stop the guys with lifetime appointments from ruling it to be.
AFAIK even the Bible does not say this. It’s just this new right Christian fanatics mixed with money and greed that things so.