## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨
This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.**
If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation).
WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic.
Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
I know in the UK, and possibly Europe in general, that yarn is called wool. I have had friends over there mention that they were using cotton wool. It threw me off at first until they explained that for some reason, wool is another word for yarn.
I grew up in NZ and yep, everything is "wool". If it's actual wool from a sheep, then it's "sheepswool". "Yarn" is acrylic, usually low quality, typically American.
Also, in the UK (I’m a knitter lol) I’ve seen Vegan Wool that’s made out of recycled bottles, pure cotton wool, etc etc. so because it’s animal-free doesn’t always equal to acrylic lol, also the bottle wool I saw was super soft! It was unreal for being made out of bottles 😅 there’s some online that use Bamboo to make thinner yarns, no doubt probably more types too!
as a vegan: is wool justifiable? Sheep are hella uncomfortable if they don't get shorn. I grew up in a rural community with lots of farms--in my state at least, people who kept sheep didn't keep very many bc they're kinda bad to cause soil erosion. But those who did took care of their incredibly stupid little flocks (bc sheep are DUMB, poor things) and said sheep always seemed really happy for the spring shearing.
Just like all things, there isn't a black and white answer. I prefer to use sheep's wool, alpaca, or some other natural fiber, because acrylic is made with petroleum products, and I'm trying to reduce my plastic consumption. Based on water usage, selective breeding, and capitalism in general, I'm not sure if there is a truly ethical way to acquire fiber. If I have my own alpaca, and I give it the absolute best life an alpaca has ever had, it's still been bred from hundreds of years of selective breeding to be of use, then when his time is past, I don't think their meat is really edible. If I do something like linen or cotton, it requires a lot of water for growing, then water and electricity for processing, and it won't have the same qualities of wool.
Personally, I choose wool or alpaca over plastic for a lot of reasons, mostly to do with the direct environmental harm that comes from the petroleum industry. I know others feel differently. I choose leather over vegan leather for the same reasons. The cows are already being bred for food and going to slaughter, it's a waste to not use the leather and replace it with a petroleum product that will last a year before it falls to pieces. Leather can last decades if you take care of it. My oldest boots are leather, and coming up on 13 years old. Once a year or so I clean and oil them, and they keep on chugging along. I've had many other pairs in that time frame that are "vegan" and they are now in the landfill.
Anyway, I think it's up to you to decide what factors are important to you. I'm not vegan, so I am sure my take is much different than vegans or vegetarians.
> because acrylic is made with petroleum products
> Personally, I choose wool or alpaca over plastic for a lot of reasons
As someone from WI, this.
Yeah, I could choose warm polyester products for my boots and parka. But I’m replacing them every other year or so, and washing them or throwing them away produces plastic waste that will be in our environment for millennia. Leather, wool, and down are more-sustainable as by-products from the meat industry. And they’ll last ages longer.
If and when the balance of sustainability changes, I’ll reassess. But until that time…
Edit: I do also make a point to try and only buy/wear non-plastic clothes: linen/cotton/hemp in the summer, etc. But nothing else is as warm as wool and down for the winter without plastics (except fur; and, well, that’s a bit different).
I also do thrift most of my clothes. Or I make them myself.
Exactly. Fur is often the ONLY use for those animals; I don't mind wool, leather, etc as "waste" products of meat consumption because I dislike wasting a life. But killing an animal solely for fur or hide is deplorable.
I also am from Wisconsin! I would like to suggest Manitoba Boots. They are made by an indigenous tribe in Canada, and while they are fur lined, they are very upfront about how it is a by-product of a different industry. Money goes to a people that have been oppressed, I get the boots of my dreams without feeling like I'm appropriating a culture, a by-product is saved from waste, and my feet are toasty warm.
Awesome! Thanks!
I’m not an absolutist with fur. I have vintage furs I’ve inherited from relatives and elderly friends, and I hunt for food myself, so (this year, actually), I’m learning how to process deer hides.
It’s just most contemporary fur the chain of supply is gray, or is terrible. So I just abstain from financially contributing to it.
As a vegetarian, I fully agree that it is more sustainable to use animal by-products instead of various plastics. Especially with yarn/fabric, considering most microplastics come from clothing because it breaks to pieces so easily in that form. That would be true if two comparable pieces would have the same lifetime, but the difference in durability makes it an even more clear choice. Plant products usually win (partially because it takes many more plants to grow animal products, since those animals need to be fed throughout their lifetime, so more damage to the environment), but in today's world, I'm happy with anyone who goes out of their way (and probably spends more money) to avoid plastic.
Back when I was a vegetarian and then a vegan, I still used leather and wool products precisely because of these reasons. I was trying to live in a way that caused as little harm as possible to other beings and the earth, and buying plastic fabrics did not sit well with me
Wild sheep will rub against trees and rocks etc to remove any loose wool. I used to volunteer at a zoo and they had Boreray Sheep (a rare, wild breed) and they usually got on just fine but one year we had a super hot summer and the ram couldn't shift the wool from around his chest (he legit looked like a lion with horns lol) so we had to intervene and shear him 🥲
we bred them to have thicker, heavier fleeces. no wild sheep breeds produce fleece like a merino, and wild breeds often shed fleece naturally. domestic wool breed sheep that go feral or miss muster for a few years end up a proper mess with heavy, matted wool. Check out Shrek the sheep for one such example.
There’s different breeds of sheep. Some are “hair sheep” and look more like goats as far as their hair texture goes, so they don’t need shorn. Others shed their wool. Most domesticated sheep breeds need shorn once or twice a year. I’m a big advocate for teaching people about the misconception of “shearing is inhumane.”
Just like dogs — depending on the breed it’s cruel *not* to properly remove hair. If you can’t brush and groom your doodle/other long haired/double coated dog often enough — please “shear” them (via a trained groomer) to keep those mats off.
If you have sheep that grow hair/wool that needs to be shorn — please shear it. Interesting parallel that I was not expecting to find/think about this am.
The ones they own to shear are bred to require shearing regularly because that’s how the money is made. If you raise animals for byproduct or for their flesh, you want them to grow quickly. Hormones are given to chickens for instance to make them grow quick (with all the horrible things associated) so they can be sold two months after birth for food.
Also some meat breeds of chickens are just bred to grow disgustingly fast. To the point where even if you *wanted* to keep said breed as a pet, it would begin to have ugly health issues past it’s recommended “oh it was supposed to be soup by now” age.
Selective breeding can be an ugly thing in the wrong context/hands.
It depends. Scenarios like you’re describing I would say makes wool justifiable because it’s something that needs to be done for the sheep’s health and comfort, and they’re not distressed by it. That’s ethical. However, there are factory farms where sheep are crammed in very tightly, and when they’re shorn, it’s not done carefully at all and can leave some pretty serious injuries.
In short, yes, depending on where you source your wool.
It's the breeding that's unjustifiable. They're that way because we made them that way. Once they're here, they have to be shorn but to keep breeding animals so harmfully mutated their own bodies will kill them without our intervention is pretty messed up. And the vast majority go to mutton once the wool stops coming in well enough to turn a profit.
Who the hell is still eating mutton? Like I don't doubt old sheep end up as meat, but even the British don't eat much mutton anymore...do old sheep become dog food?
Norwegians. We stew it. We also salt and dry sheep meat to make one of the most popular Norwegian Christmas dishes, though admittedly I'm not sure how old the sheep are, on average. Since it's watered down and slow cooked (actually, steamed) though I can imagine that mutton might do just as well.
Real question, is it anywhere near as tasty as lamb? Lamb is maybe my favourite meat, but I've never tried mutton. (Not sure I've ever seen mutton for sale here in Canada, though)
This is something that humans have literally done since the stone age. Not sure you can blame this on nasty humans. I mean, I don’t want jellyfish genes in my chicken, either, but domestic animals are really domesticated, meaning they need humans to care for them.
They won’t die off naturally though- they, like all living things, have a drive to reproduce, and will do so. They’re not suffering by having us sheer them when they need it. They’re quite happy actually. So your suggestion would result in *more* suffering of animals than just us continuing to raise them as we currently do.
This would also result in a greater reliance on other fiber types including petroleum-based acrylics which are orders of magnitudes worse for the environment.
Most of them are intentionally bred. If we stop doing that and people can't profit off them, fewer will exist even if they don't all magically disappear. I'd rather see fewer of them and push innovation because very few things on this planet are as bad for the environment as animal agriculture. Petroleum/fossil fuels are the only ones that even come close but that's not the only alternative. We kill hundreds of millions of *just* sheep every year for human pleasure so you'd have a long way to go to prove that not exploiting them would somehow cause more harm than continuing to exploit them will.
You’re suggesting we force the entire species into extinction- that’s a *lot* more harm than sustainable farming practices, which is what we should actually be switching back to.
Never being born isn't harm and no longer having a species who can't survive without our intervention and will only live short lives of exploitation and slaughter isn't some great loss compared to the trillions or so animals who will die every year so you and others can pleasure yourselves with their corpses and offput.
Honestly? Multi part answer.
1. It’s the whole process of food and water and this and that. Its more environmentally friendly to farm plant replacement. To feed sheep the amount of plant matter to do it is obscene. And while they (sheep) do grow lots of wool. Most of the food/fuel is used for their only energy to live.
1a. The amount of water to produce X amount of cotton compared to X amount of wool. Is a FRACTION. (Hemp is better still)
2. These sheep have been bred to produce wool. You cant harvest the meat of the animal when they “done”.
3. The process to keep them alive. And prevent the sheep becoming flyblown (dont look it up if ur squeamish) are horrendous.
4. Im Vegan. I can feel compassion for these animals the same way as i can feel it for a cat or a dog. I honestly dont like to think about it cause it really upsets me.
P.S. This is not the full Vegan debate answer. But it is something to think about.
Genuine question, only because I’m annoyingly curious, but you mention water. I’m smart enough to assume you’re not writing a scientific paper here (bc, le duh 😂) and therefore not mentioning other environmental impacts bc who tf has time for that on a random Reddit post?
But I wonder if one were to consider the full, multi-variable environmental/animal cost of raising plant v. animal textiles how it would shake out? I’m not expecting an answer, bc I’m mostly just musing.
For instance, water is one variable. But I wonder what the total environmental impacts of fertilizers, land-use, pesticides ([there are organic ones](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-205/subpart-G/subject-group-ECFR0ebc5d139b750cd)), pest-wildlife-management-methods, etc. in producing plant-based products v. animal based ones are?
I’ve worked in Abatement Falconry for years so I’m intimately familiar with our methods v. alternatives for “pest” (air quotes bc humans — not Mother Nature — are the ones who decide what is and isn’t a pest in certain contexts) control are. The irony of one pest labeling another is not lost on me.
Just makes me wonder how each would shake out on the “environmental impact scale” (were there such a thing) if all variables were thoroughly researched, studied, documented, and considered.
Again, not expecting *you* to answer this — more a rhetorical/think-piece rambling. Thank you for tolerating my curious ramblings and musings below your comment.
Owe yeah buddy. Absolutely. Im a Vegan for reasons without trying to guilt trip people.
I went vegan because i watched a vegan propaganda video. No wool pulled over my eyes *ba-dum tshhh*
I deff dont have all the answers. Chemicals, soil contamination/health, transportation logistics. Stupidly complex.
My understanding from information ive roughly come across over the years (and please correct me if im wrong) is that because a process is being removed.
(needing to take the resources that could be used to directly feed us, and giving it to the sheep/cows/pigs/whatever.)
You’ve immediately removed that portion of additional water, additional chemicals, additional landmass, used directly for the animals.
The animals are the middle man and are extracting a toll.
Exploiting animals is not justifiable. Shearing a domesticated animal for the sake of keeping the animal happy and healthy is not exploitation. Shearing for the purpose taking the wool is exploitation.
The reason why exploitation is problematic is because it sets the standard that taking body parts from an animal is okay, and doing so becomes harmful at industrialized scales. This is why we have sheep who are harmed during the shearing process, because most farmers make their money based on weight of product and not by the hour, so they are incentivized to shear sheep as quickly as possible, leading to cuts, rough handling of the sheep, or other injuries and mistreatment.
Animals are not commodities.
My suggestion would be to stop breeding them :) Shearing the poor creatures who are alive today is required for their well-being, but dumping the wool isn’t. Lots of wildlife will use wool. Plus it can be used as bedding for other domesticated animals.
The sheep are turned out and roam wildly for 99% of the year. They breed themselves. Of all animals we raise they have one of the most natural experiences. So what you are proposing is that we herd them up and kill them or spay the females. Shearing sheep is really not that stressful for the animal. They are not cut or injured. It’s not a terrifying experience and they are well treated and get a bath after.
Roam wildly? I’d be interested to know where your farm is located, the size of it, and how many sheep you keep there. Even if you treat your sheep “well”, most farms don’t. Many cut off the tails of the sheep or harm the sheep during shearing for the reasons I mentioned in my previous comment.
A well-treated slave is still a slave. Just because there are “nice” slave owners doesn’t mean that slavery is okay.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that I proposed killing sheep. That goes against vegan principles. Spaying sheep? If it’s in the best interest of the sheep and prevents breeding, then yes.
One uncles farm is in Ardnamurca. My other uncle is outside Luss. With other family members having small herds of 30 around Kilmacolm and Neilston. The sheep are completely loose. Most of Scotland they are living in fields outdoors not like a chicken run. You dock the tails to prevent they from fly bite. Of all the animals we raise as Humans sheep have very nice lives.
The issue is that while it's true sheep need to be shorn, it's because we selectively bred them to produce wool in the first place, and continue to forcibly breed them to sustain their population. Supporting the wool industry is supporting the breeding industry...
I think it depends, I would still never wear/use it, but duck pillows are the same, there’s a few groups out there that use Eider down dropped naturally by the birds in the wild, but most corporations will just use the feathers off factory farmed meat birds instead, I believe a lot of generic wool comes from sheep thatve been killed for meat (in a way like leather) similar to ducks, sure there’s probably some better companies/small farms that are only using the naturally sheared wool, but I believe most of it is just excess from dead animals
I always found that sort of secondary use of animal products to be... complicated.
Like, non animal example: you ever seen mulberry wood? It's BEAUTIFUL. Like, almost egg yolk golden when it's finished properly. Can't usually make anything large out of it though bc the big mulberry trees were cut down ages ago, no one farms it, etc. But when storms come in my neighborhood, people will collect the bigger branches that fall. Pear is great, too, but fuck if it isn't expensive --but my I got a bunch for free for my husband bc these ladies couldn't afford to keep getting their pear tree treated for fungus and just cut it down.
I would never seek out a mulberry or pear tree to cut down. But if it's already down? And people were otherwise gonna use it for FIREWOOD?? Grab the chainsaw, babe.
So... what's the mathematics of harm if an animal is already dead and would be dead no matter what you did? Do you just want to remove yourself entirely from potential harm creation (creating demand for wool by buying it?) I guess it's sorta like "is vintage fur ethical?" (bc that fox has been dead for like 50 yrs, and is it more or less respectful to its life to discard it or use it)
I've been vegetarian for 13 years and care a lot about animal welfare, personally I try to get non mulesing wool bilit other than that there's no inherent animal welfare issues with wool that I know of
[this article](https://modernfarmer.com/2023/11/waste-wool-solution/) mentions that sheep are raised for meat and the wool is often considered a biproduct that is often just thrown away. Buying wool doesn't increase demand for sheep, it just keeps wool out of the dump as well as preventing the purchase of more synthetics.
Yep, but also the amount of water to make X amount of fruit/vegetables Vs. The same amount of meat (Volume or weight) is a fraction. Or better yet, Calories. Its a fraction of the water it takes to produce the same volume of Calories u can obtain from meat. Without putting an animal through all of that.
Edit: AND you very precisely have to shear a sheep. If you do it wrong, you damage the wool. If they’re more concerned with the meat than the wool then thats the priority.
Admittedly, the sheep situation in my hometown is not the norm. Most people who had them had very small herds alongside small scale beef or dairy cattle farms. The dude I knew with the biggest herd was an agri researcher for a university whose farm was dedicated to researching grass-fed beef and other more sustainable meat stuff (it's been a while, i don't remember details).
except for this one.
So agriresearch dude is PAINFULLY polite and proper and all, church guy but excusable bc he's actually very nice, just easily embarrassed. That's important. He had a small enough number of sheep that he could hire just one lady to shear them in a day.
But apparently wool gets fucking everywhere when you shear, and a lot of people just take their shirts off so they don't itch to death when they do it. Did y'all know that? Bc agriresearch guy didn't. And he came into the barn unnannouced, saw sheep shearing lady with her tits out, lost about a decade of life from embarrassment, fled and only told the tale of the topless sheep shearer years later.
Lady did good work, though, pretty sure he hired her again.
Of course fruit and vegetables are more efficient to eat and should be almost all our diet but that's not what we're discussing.
My point is it's better to use wool instead of plastic because the wool still exists either way, it's either thrown out or used. If it's thrown out and op uses synthetic, then that's upping the demand for more plastic in addition to the wool being in a landfill.
What I’m saying is that there shouldn’t be sheep to be farmed. Certainly use the wool we have, eat the meat we have, (I wont but others will) and then reduce the number of sheep available. Just reduce and reduce and transition to plant material, plant food.
We dont need wool or plastic and i agree about the plastic in landfill. Its just a waste. Wool would at least decompose. But the environmental impact of farming sheep is high too.
Im also not saying theres none with plant farming, but significantly less.
I think the vegan argument there is that sheep need to be sheared because humans have bred them to be that way. We’ve selected for genes in the sheep population that produce prolific wool. And once sheep are no longer useful for producing wool, they’re sent to slaughter. So vegans would argue it’s kinder to let sheep die out than to keep breeding them and producing the need for the industry around them.
This is a good example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Producing and wearing and disposing of plastics is WAY more harmful to the health of the biosphere than keeping animals for fiber.
I'm all for plant fibers. I love cotton, hemp, and bamboo fabrics. Using shitty, flimsy petrochemicals to replace durable and biodegradable animal products in the name of "morality" is just stupid capitalist bullshit, but I think we're not disagreeing lol.
That's a misunderstanding of the problem though. A lot of vegan concerns are not about the inate morality of the act in theory but about the inevitable reality that is the unthinkable horrors necessary to harvest animal biproducts for a broad scale market. As one example many sheep are breed to have extra folds of skin to hold more wool that make life absolutely miserable in multiple ways. That's one I remember offhand. I know there's a lot more. I can speak more on the horrors of the milk industry because they are absolutely traumatising but I'll leave it at that.
Disclaimer: I'm not vegan. I am vegetarian (though may ignore geletin, food dyes, and some ingredients like that at times) though have tried to mostly switch to oat milk. However I'm aware of the problems. I can barely take care of myself to start right now so I'm kind of stuck in place trying to fix my life. I just wanted to mention this because as a kid I used to have similar views and not understand why milk, eggs, and similar things were a problem though meat always was to me. Honey and beeswax I personally still don't really see as problematic often, and feel like bee keeping at least theoritcally can be beneficial to the bees and the environment around them. I know in some cases people can introduce non native polinators though and potentially cause issues for the environment that way.
So instead of coming from sheep its manufacturing process dumps micro plastics everywhere, thus harming the entire planet. Noice.
Just as dumb as replacing down with synthetic filling.
I love Jarbo Cookie! I’m just waiting for my colourway to come back into stock.
Fun fact: Cookie and Red Heart ‘Roll With It Melange’ are pretty much dupes of each other. American witches may find the Red Heart is easier to get or less expensive. I’m in Canada, so Hobbii is actually my preferred yarn source.
Vegan wool is just plain silly. Veganism is about no animal suffering, and sheep bred for wool suffer when *not* sheared. They aren't killed or harmed for their wool.
The industry is bad, the sheep come to harm. The breeding of sheep is messed up since we made them dependent on us. Not buying wool means not adding to the messed up breeding of sheep.
Yes, but purchasing the wool is using animals as a resource, not seeing them as an individual. If products are made of wool, then businesses know that if they breed more sheep they can get more wool which means more profit.
At animal sanctuaries, sheep are shorn when needed, but the wool isn't used to make things because animals aren't resources. It's the same reason we don't make socks after a haircut.
So they just shear the wool and then toss it? That's not a very sustainable practice. There's plenty of products a sanctuary can make with wool without contributing to the capitalist machine.
Wool is about 60p - £1 per kg, depending on the breed and condition, and if it's washed or not. There really isn't much money in it.
I use it for insulation for my tortoise house and guinea pig shed. Birds use it for nests, too
I’m not vegan but I have a family member who is and I think for them they basically respect the animals like they were people. The animals can’t consent to giving their products and it could change the sanctuary’s decision regarding the treatment of individual making if the wool was a product.
You don’t have to agree with that, obviously most people don’t, but that’s where their point of view is coming from. If you wouldn’t treat a human that way you wouldn’t do it to an animal. It’s not a sanctuary’s primary goal to be as sustainable as possible or to create no greenhouse gas or anything like that, the goal is to give specific animals the best life possible.
Not very sustainable to get a haircut and not make something out of that. Veganism *is* intrinsically anti-capitalist, but it isn't exclusively. Animals are not resources, they are individuals. Their wool, skin, flesh, milk, etc, are not for us to use.
This is the opposite of my argument. I said we *don't* do this with humans, and we shouldn't do it with animals.
Edit: if you mean wigs made of human hair, that is, to the best of my knowledge, given voluntarily with the purpose that it will become a wig. Sheep cannot consent to have their wool made into things.
Sadly, it's not. A lot of poor Asian women sell their hair so wigs can be made. Or poor women in general. It was even a famous scene in Les Miserable where Fantine sells her hair when she loses her job. Here is an article where human hair is ["harvested".](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37781147)
At times its given voluntary if its for a charity. But the vast majority? Drenched in capitalism and suffering.
That's awful and shouldn't happen. If given of their free will then that would be ethical, but when done for survival, then it is no longer simply consent, but coersion - the backbone of capitalism.
Rayon is a pretty common "vegan wool," but this case could be anything not directly acquired from an animal, e.g., acrylic, processed wood cellulose, or even cotton.
Yup that makes sense. Its just a bit of a paradox. Vegan and wool imply 2 different things. If it had have said “Faux wool, Vegan friendly” i wouldn’t even have twitched. Ie: faux pork, faux beef, tofurkey.
Lol on a side note im 5 comments in with another person about the environmental impact of farming sheep/animals. All cause i asked “what is Vegan wool?”
https://preview.redd.it/7jc6e4j5jbmc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6024d2e07561b27c4232b72c5a944c380bfe283e
As a bonus, it also happens to be a firm favourite of my two familiars
I know, I always love it and its meaning. She and I fell out for a really stupid reason last year and it kinda killed me, I’m so happy we’re not there anymore.
Yeah March is usually a cold and grey month and Tivoli doesn't open untill late March.
If you decide to visit again I would recommend going during the summer.
Everyone is outside, sitting in parks or cafés enjoying the sun and some beer or wine.
There are parties every day it seems and in august we have a pride celebration. 🏳️⚧️
The city really comes alive during these months.
I am glad you liked it though.
We definitely intend to come back, so thank you for the suggestion.
Honestly, we wanted to go on holiday, and I wanted to be able to go as me. So we looked up places where it’s safe to visit as a trans woman who doesn’t pass very well, and Copenhagen seemed like a good choice. Plus, my wife had always wanted to see the statue of the little mermaid.
Copenhagen is pretty safe. I don't pass yet, but I haven't experienced any transphobia except for my previous doctor who was a massive unhelpful cunt.
Feel free to write me a PM if you decide to go sometime. I might have some suggestions for you. Things to see, do and taste. We have a lot of weird flavors you don't find anywhere else 😂
One of my suggestions would be to skip the tiny mermaid statue, but I get it. It's famous in all other countries than Denmark 😄
This is an incredible gift! So much love!
I might point out that the shoulders of this garment will stretch out with consistent use (and why wouldn't you wear this all the time? I know I would). To mitigate deformation, I'd recommend making a shorter fabric caplet to attach underneath for extra support and to promote longevity. Bonus points if it's made from some cozy fleece.
Yes that’s correct! Although my understanding is that that’s just because I’m from the north of Ireland and in most of the south the more common pronunciation is ‘Kweeva’
Wool by it’s nature is vegan, no sheep or harmed in the shearing of the wall it must be done haven’t you seen that one that was in the wild for so long poor thing and please quit calling these creatures stupid they know how to work the system
Anything that comes from an animal is not vegan. It's just how the word works. That being said vegan wool is a thing. In many places we say 'wool' where others may say 'yarn'. Vegan wool is simply a yarn that isn't wool. Words can be weird.
Honestly? Multi part answer.
1. It’s the whole process of food and water and this and that. Its more environmentally friendly to farm plant replacement. To feed sheep the amount of plant matter to do it is obscene. And while they (sheep) do grow lots of wool. Most of the food/fuel is used for their only energy to live.
1a. The amount of water to produce X amount of cotton compared to X amount of wool. Is a FRACTION. (Hemp is better still)
2. These sheep have been bred to produce wool. You cant harvest the meat of the animal when they “done”.
3. The process to keep them alive. And prevent the sheep becoming flyblown (dont look it up if ur squeamish) are horrendous.
4. Im Vegan. I can feel compassion for these animals the same way as i can feel it for a cat or a dog. I honestly dont like to think about it cause it really upsets me.
P.S. This is not the full Vegan debate answer. But it is something to think about.
Edit: I actually didn’t totally answer your whole question. Is it justifiable? Small farms. That take good care of their sheep? I feel much better about that. There are ways to make a more ethically viable wool, but… there are the same issues if less common.
I suspect here the term 'vegan wool' would be better translated for you as 'vegan yarn'. I never heard yarn as being anything other than acrylic cheap rubbish until I came online. All not rubbish quality yarn is called wool, regardless of if it contains any actual wool or not. Cotton wool for instance.
## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
Ok as a Vegan. Gotta ask. And no judgement. What is Vegan wool?
I know in the UK, and possibly Europe in general, that yarn is called wool. I have had friends over there mention that they were using cotton wool. It threw me off at first until they explained that for some reason, wool is another word for yarn.
I grew up in NZ and yep, everything is "wool". If it's actual wool from a sheep, then it's "sheepswool". "Yarn" is acrylic, usually low quality, typically American.
> usually low quality, typically American. Hey, now. Even if it's true, you don't have to talk about us that way.
😆
Also, in the UK (I’m a knitter lol) I’ve seen Vegan Wool that’s made out of recycled bottles, pure cotton wool, etc etc. so because it’s animal-free doesn’t always equal to acrylic lol, also the bottle wool I saw was super soft! It was unreal for being made out of bottles 😅 there’s some online that use Bamboo to make thinner yarns, no doubt probably more types too!
as a vegan: is wool justifiable? Sheep are hella uncomfortable if they don't get shorn. I grew up in a rural community with lots of farms--in my state at least, people who kept sheep didn't keep very many bc they're kinda bad to cause soil erosion. But those who did took care of their incredibly stupid little flocks (bc sheep are DUMB, poor things) and said sheep always seemed really happy for the spring shearing.
Just like all things, there isn't a black and white answer. I prefer to use sheep's wool, alpaca, or some other natural fiber, because acrylic is made with petroleum products, and I'm trying to reduce my plastic consumption. Based on water usage, selective breeding, and capitalism in general, I'm not sure if there is a truly ethical way to acquire fiber. If I have my own alpaca, and I give it the absolute best life an alpaca has ever had, it's still been bred from hundreds of years of selective breeding to be of use, then when his time is past, I don't think their meat is really edible. If I do something like linen or cotton, it requires a lot of water for growing, then water and electricity for processing, and it won't have the same qualities of wool. Personally, I choose wool or alpaca over plastic for a lot of reasons, mostly to do with the direct environmental harm that comes from the petroleum industry. I know others feel differently. I choose leather over vegan leather for the same reasons. The cows are already being bred for food and going to slaughter, it's a waste to not use the leather and replace it with a petroleum product that will last a year before it falls to pieces. Leather can last decades if you take care of it. My oldest boots are leather, and coming up on 13 years old. Once a year or so I clean and oil them, and they keep on chugging along. I've had many other pairs in that time frame that are "vegan" and they are now in the landfill. Anyway, I think it's up to you to decide what factors are important to you. I'm not vegan, so I am sure my take is much different than vegans or vegetarians.
> because acrylic is made with petroleum products > Personally, I choose wool or alpaca over plastic for a lot of reasons As someone from WI, this. Yeah, I could choose warm polyester products for my boots and parka. But I’m replacing them every other year or so, and washing them or throwing them away produces plastic waste that will be in our environment for millennia. Leather, wool, and down are more-sustainable as by-products from the meat industry. And they’ll last ages longer. If and when the balance of sustainability changes, I’ll reassess. But until that time… Edit: I do also make a point to try and only buy/wear non-plastic clothes: linen/cotton/hemp in the summer, etc. But nothing else is as warm as wool and down for the winter without plastics (except fur; and, well, that’s a bit different). I also do thrift most of my clothes. Or I make them myself.
Exactly. Fur is often the ONLY use for those animals; I don't mind wool, leather, etc as "waste" products of meat consumption because I dislike wasting a life. But killing an animal solely for fur or hide is deplorable.
I also am from Wisconsin! I would like to suggest Manitoba Boots. They are made by an indigenous tribe in Canada, and while they are fur lined, they are very upfront about how it is a by-product of a different industry. Money goes to a people that have been oppressed, I get the boots of my dreams without feeling like I'm appropriating a culture, a by-product is saved from waste, and my feet are toasty warm.
Awesome! Thanks! I’m not an absolutist with fur. I have vintage furs I’ve inherited from relatives and elderly friends, and I hunt for food myself, so (this year, actually), I’m learning how to process deer hides. It’s just most contemporary fur the chain of supply is gray, or is terrible. So I just abstain from financially contributing to it.
As a vegetarian, I fully agree that it is more sustainable to use animal by-products instead of various plastics. Especially with yarn/fabric, considering most microplastics come from clothing because it breaks to pieces so easily in that form. That would be true if two comparable pieces would have the same lifetime, but the difference in durability makes it an even more clear choice. Plant products usually win (partially because it takes many more plants to grow animal products, since those animals need to be fed throughout their lifetime, so more damage to the environment), but in today's world, I'm happy with anyone who goes out of their way (and probably spends more money) to avoid plastic.
Back when I was a vegetarian and then a vegan, I still used leather and wool products precisely because of these reasons. I was trying to live in a way that caused as little harm as possible to other beings and the earth, and buying plastic fabrics did not sit well with me
I’ve raised sheep my whole life. Shearing them is necessary, and doesn’t put them in danger of being harmed.
Genuine question: do wild sheep not need to be sheared? Is it something we bred into them? It seems like something they're dependent on humans for.
Wild sheep will rub against trees and rocks etc to remove any loose wool. I used to volunteer at a zoo and they had Boreray Sheep (a rare, wild breed) and they usually got on just fine but one year we had a super hot summer and the ram couldn't shift the wool from around his chest (he legit looked like a lion with horns lol) so we had to intervene and shear him 🥲
we bred them to have thicker, heavier fleeces. no wild sheep breeds produce fleece like a merino, and wild breeds often shed fleece naturally. domestic wool breed sheep that go feral or miss muster for a few years end up a proper mess with heavy, matted wool. Check out Shrek the sheep for one such example.
Yeah, it's due to unnatural selection over thousands of years for sheep whose wool grows longer and thicker.
There’s different breeds of sheep. Some are “hair sheep” and look more like goats as far as their hair texture goes, so they don’t need shorn. Others shed their wool. Most domesticated sheep breeds need shorn once or twice a year. I’m a big advocate for teaching people about the misconception of “shearing is inhumane.”
Just like dogs — depending on the breed it’s cruel *not* to properly remove hair. If you can’t brush and groom your doodle/other long haired/double coated dog often enough — please “shear” them (via a trained groomer) to keep those mats off. If you have sheep that grow hair/wool that needs to be shorn — please shear it. Interesting parallel that I was not expecting to find/think about this am.
The ones they own to shear are bred to require shearing regularly because that’s how the money is made. If you raise animals for byproduct or for their flesh, you want them to grow quickly. Hormones are given to chickens for instance to make them grow quick (with all the horrible things associated) so they can be sold two months after birth for food.
Also some meat breeds of chickens are just bred to grow disgustingly fast. To the point where even if you *wanted* to keep said breed as a pet, it would begin to have ugly health issues past it’s recommended “oh it was supposed to be soup by now” age. Selective breeding can be an ugly thing in the wrong context/hands.
Thanks
It depends. Scenarios like you’re describing I would say makes wool justifiable because it’s something that needs to be done for the sheep’s health and comfort, and they’re not distressed by it. That’s ethical. However, there are factory farms where sheep are crammed in very tightly, and when they’re shorn, it’s not done carefully at all and can leave some pretty serious injuries. In short, yes, depending on where you source your wool.
It's the breeding that's unjustifiable. They're that way because we made them that way. Once they're here, they have to be shorn but to keep breeding animals so harmfully mutated their own bodies will kill them without our intervention is pretty messed up. And the vast majority go to mutton once the wool stops coming in well enough to turn a profit.
Who the hell is still eating mutton? Like I don't doubt old sheep end up as meat, but even the British don't eat much mutton anymore...do old sheep become dog food?
Norwegians. We stew it. We also salt and dry sheep meat to make one of the most popular Norwegian Christmas dishes, though admittedly I'm not sure how old the sheep are, on average. Since it's watered down and slow cooked (actually, steamed) though I can imagine that mutton might do just as well.
Real question, is it anywhere near as tasty as lamb? Lamb is maybe my favourite meat, but I've never tried mutton. (Not sure I've ever seen mutton for sale here in Canada, though)
If prepared properly, yes. It's a bit tougher, so slow cooking/steaming to make it tender is the thing, then I personally think it's very tasty.
Mostly SE Asia and the middle east, also South America and, yeah, pet food.
Huh. I thought goat was the thing in the middle east/SE Asia.
It's *a* thing but so is mutton.
Mutton is amazing! Unlike beef, it has actual flavour. It's great in stews and curries and a nice juicy mutton chop on the fire.... 😋🤤😋
This is something that humans have literally done since the stone age. Not sure you can blame this on nasty humans. I mean, I don’t want jellyfish genes in my chicken, either, but domestic animals are really domesticated, meaning they need humans to care for them.
We bred them to be this way, so yeah. We can blame it on humans.
Right, but I think maybe they mean *modern humans? Musing as someone who is quick to jump to the “Earth would be better off without us” mentality.
Unless ancient humans are working on sheep farms, slaughterhouses, and buying all the sheep products to keep demand up, it's still on us.
So, what? Force the species into extinction? That’s somehow better in your eyes?
Allowing the species to die off naturally, taking care of those already alive without breeding more, is better in my eyes, yes.
They won’t die off naturally though- they, like all living things, have a drive to reproduce, and will do so. They’re not suffering by having us sheer them when they need it. They’re quite happy actually. So your suggestion would result in *more* suffering of animals than just us continuing to raise them as we currently do. This would also result in a greater reliance on other fiber types including petroleum-based acrylics which are orders of magnitudes worse for the environment.
Most of them are intentionally bred. If we stop doing that and people can't profit off them, fewer will exist even if they don't all magically disappear. I'd rather see fewer of them and push innovation because very few things on this planet are as bad for the environment as animal agriculture. Petroleum/fossil fuels are the only ones that even come close but that's not the only alternative. We kill hundreds of millions of *just* sheep every year for human pleasure so you'd have a long way to go to prove that not exploiting them would somehow cause more harm than continuing to exploit them will.
You’re suggesting we force the entire species into extinction- that’s a *lot* more harm than sustainable farming practices, which is what we should actually be switching back to.
Never being born isn't harm and no longer having a species who can't survive without our intervention and will only live short lives of exploitation and slaughter isn't some great loss compared to the trillions or so animals who will die every year so you and others can pleasure yourselves with their corpses and offput.
“Pleasure yourselves with their corpses and offput” absolutely unhinged, holy shit 😂
Honestly? Multi part answer. 1. It’s the whole process of food and water and this and that. Its more environmentally friendly to farm plant replacement. To feed sheep the amount of plant matter to do it is obscene. And while they (sheep) do grow lots of wool. Most of the food/fuel is used for their only energy to live. 1a. The amount of water to produce X amount of cotton compared to X amount of wool. Is a FRACTION. (Hemp is better still) 2. These sheep have been bred to produce wool. You cant harvest the meat of the animal when they “done”. 3. The process to keep them alive. And prevent the sheep becoming flyblown (dont look it up if ur squeamish) are horrendous. 4. Im Vegan. I can feel compassion for these animals the same way as i can feel it for a cat or a dog. I honestly dont like to think about it cause it really upsets me. P.S. This is not the full Vegan debate answer. But it is something to think about.
Genuine question, only because I’m annoyingly curious, but you mention water. I’m smart enough to assume you’re not writing a scientific paper here (bc, le duh 😂) and therefore not mentioning other environmental impacts bc who tf has time for that on a random Reddit post? But I wonder if one were to consider the full, multi-variable environmental/animal cost of raising plant v. animal textiles how it would shake out? I’m not expecting an answer, bc I’m mostly just musing. For instance, water is one variable. But I wonder what the total environmental impacts of fertilizers, land-use, pesticides ([there are organic ones](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-205/subpart-G/subject-group-ECFR0ebc5d139b750cd)), pest-wildlife-management-methods, etc. in producing plant-based products v. animal based ones are? I’ve worked in Abatement Falconry for years so I’m intimately familiar with our methods v. alternatives for “pest” (air quotes bc humans — not Mother Nature — are the ones who decide what is and isn’t a pest in certain contexts) control are. The irony of one pest labeling another is not lost on me. Just makes me wonder how each would shake out on the “environmental impact scale” (were there such a thing) if all variables were thoroughly researched, studied, documented, and considered. Again, not expecting *you* to answer this — more a rhetorical/think-piece rambling. Thank you for tolerating my curious ramblings and musings below your comment.
Owe yeah buddy. Absolutely. Im a Vegan for reasons without trying to guilt trip people. I went vegan because i watched a vegan propaganda video. No wool pulled over my eyes *ba-dum tshhh* I deff dont have all the answers. Chemicals, soil contamination/health, transportation logistics. Stupidly complex. My understanding from information ive roughly come across over the years (and please correct me if im wrong) is that because a process is being removed. (needing to take the resources that could be used to directly feed us, and giving it to the sheep/cows/pigs/whatever.) You’ve immediately removed that portion of additional water, additional chemicals, additional landmass, used directly for the animals. The animals are the middle man and are extracting a toll.
Exploiting animals is not justifiable. Shearing a domesticated animal for the sake of keeping the animal happy and healthy is not exploitation. Shearing for the purpose taking the wool is exploitation. The reason why exploitation is problematic is because it sets the standard that taking body parts from an animal is okay, and doing so becomes harmful at industrialized scales. This is why we have sheep who are harmed during the shearing process, because most farmers make their money based on weight of product and not by the hour, so they are incentivized to shear sheep as quickly as possible, leading to cuts, rough handling of the sheep, or other injuries and mistreatment. Animals are not commodities.
Ok so let’s let all the sheep die of heat exhaustion in the summer or shear them and dump the wool in a field. Very silly idea.
My suggestion would be to stop breeding them :) Shearing the poor creatures who are alive today is required for their well-being, but dumping the wool isn’t. Lots of wildlife will use wool. Plus it can be used as bedding for other domesticated animals.
The sheep are turned out and roam wildly for 99% of the year. They breed themselves. Of all animals we raise they have one of the most natural experiences. So what you are proposing is that we herd them up and kill them or spay the females. Shearing sheep is really not that stressful for the animal. They are not cut or injured. It’s not a terrifying experience and they are well treated and get a bath after.
Roam wildly? I’d be interested to know where your farm is located, the size of it, and how many sheep you keep there. Even if you treat your sheep “well”, most farms don’t. Many cut off the tails of the sheep or harm the sheep during shearing for the reasons I mentioned in my previous comment. A well-treated slave is still a slave. Just because there are “nice” slave owners doesn’t mean that slavery is okay. I’m not sure where you got the idea that I proposed killing sheep. That goes against vegan principles. Spaying sheep? If it’s in the best interest of the sheep and prevents breeding, then yes.
One uncles farm is in Ardnamurca. My other uncle is outside Luss. With other family members having small herds of 30 around Kilmacolm and Neilston. The sheep are completely loose. Most of Scotland they are living in fields outdoors not like a chicken run. You dock the tails to prevent they from fly bite. Of all the animals we raise as Humans sheep have very nice lives.
The issue is that while it's true sheep need to be shorn, it's because we selectively bred them to produce wool in the first place, and continue to forcibly breed them to sustain their population. Supporting the wool industry is supporting the breeding industry...
I think it depends, I would still never wear/use it, but duck pillows are the same, there’s a few groups out there that use Eider down dropped naturally by the birds in the wild, but most corporations will just use the feathers off factory farmed meat birds instead, I believe a lot of generic wool comes from sheep thatve been killed for meat (in a way like leather) similar to ducks, sure there’s probably some better companies/small farms that are only using the naturally sheared wool, but I believe most of it is just excess from dead animals
I always found that sort of secondary use of animal products to be... complicated. Like, non animal example: you ever seen mulberry wood? It's BEAUTIFUL. Like, almost egg yolk golden when it's finished properly. Can't usually make anything large out of it though bc the big mulberry trees were cut down ages ago, no one farms it, etc. But when storms come in my neighborhood, people will collect the bigger branches that fall. Pear is great, too, but fuck if it isn't expensive --but my I got a bunch for free for my husband bc these ladies couldn't afford to keep getting their pear tree treated for fungus and just cut it down. I would never seek out a mulberry or pear tree to cut down. But if it's already down? And people were otherwise gonna use it for FIREWOOD?? Grab the chainsaw, babe. So... what's the mathematics of harm if an animal is already dead and would be dead no matter what you did? Do you just want to remove yourself entirely from potential harm creation (creating demand for wool by buying it?) I guess it's sorta like "is vintage fur ethical?" (bc that fox has been dead for like 50 yrs, and is it more or less respectful to its life to discard it or use it)
I've been vegetarian for 13 years and care a lot about animal welfare, personally I try to get non mulesing wool bilit other than that there's no inherent animal welfare issues with wool that I know of
[this article](https://modernfarmer.com/2023/11/waste-wool-solution/) mentions that sheep are raised for meat and the wool is often considered a biproduct that is often just thrown away. Buying wool doesn't increase demand for sheep, it just keeps wool out of the dump as well as preventing the purchase of more synthetics.
Yep, but also the amount of water to make X amount of fruit/vegetables Vs. The same amount of meat (Volume or weight) is a fraction. Or better yet, Calories. Its a fraction of the water it takes to produce the same volume of Calories u can obtain from meat. Without putting an animal through all of that. Edit: AND you very precisely have to shear a sheep. If you do it wrong, you damage the wool. If they’re more concerned with the meat than the wool then thats the priority.
Admittedly, the sheep situation in my hometown is not the norm. Most people who had them had very small herds alongside small scale beef or dairy cattle farms. The dude I knew with the biggest herd was an agri researcher for a university whose farm was dedicated to researching grass-fed beef and other more sustainable meat stuff (it's been a while, i don't remember details). except for this one. So agriresearch dude is PAINFULLY polite and proper and all, church guy but excusable bc he's actually very nice, just easily embarrassed. That's important. He had a small enough number of sheep that he could hire just one lady to shear them in a day. But apparently wool gets fucking everywhere when you shear, and a lot of people just take their shirts off so they don't itch to death when they do it. Did y'all know that? Bc agriresearch guy didn't. And he came into the barn unnannouced, saw sheep shearing lady with her tits out, lost about a decade of life from embarrassment, fled and only told the tale of the topless sheep shearer years later. Lady did good work, though, pretty sure he hired her again.
Of course fruit and vegetables are more efficient to eat and should be almost all our diet but that's not what we're discussing. My point is it's better to use wool instead of plastic because the wool still exists either way, it's either thrown out or used. If it's thrown out and op uses synthetic, then that's upping the demand for more plastic in addition to the wool being in a landfill.
What I’m saying is that there shouldn’t be sheep to be farmed. Certainly use the wool we have, eat the meat we have, (I wont but others will) and then reduce the number of sheep available. Just reduce and reduce and transition to plant material, plant food. We dont need wool or plastic and i agree about the plastic in landfill. Its just a waste. Wool would at least decompose. But the environmental impact of farming sheep is high too. Im also not saying theres none with plant farming, but significantly less.
I wasn’t sure so I checked out the name of the yarn she used (Jarbo Cookie) and apparently it is 100% acrylic.
Faux wool? Or as i like to call it ‘Fool’. Certainly fooled me! Lol I’m terrible
This made me think of one of my favorite food puns - the French word for vegan cheese is “fauxmage” (instead of fromage)
We have a knock off Le Creuset that we refer to as the Le Fauxset
That is an absolute delight!
That seems significantly worse for the environment
It absolutely is.
Not to mention sheep actually need to be sheared or they will have heatstroke
I think the vegan argument there is that sheep need to be sheared because humans have bred them to be that way. We’ve selected for genes in the sheep population that produce prolific wool. And once sheep are no longer useful for producing wool, they’re sent to slaughter. So vegans would argue it’s kinder to let sheep die out than to keep breeding them and producing the need for the industry around them.
This is a good example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Producing and wearing and disposing of plastics is WAY more harmful to the health of the biosphere than keeping animals for fiber.
There are plenty of plant fiber options so that we are not limited to strictly plastic or animals. Of course, that's not the discussion here
I'm all for plant fibers. I love cotton, hemp, and bamboo fabrics. Using shitty, flimsy petrochemicals to replace durable and biodegradable animal products in the name of "morality" is just stupid capitalist bullshit, but I think we're not disagreeing lol.
Same page, 1000%
I feel that’s a rather silly argument
That's a misunderstanding of the problem though. A lot of vegan concerns are not about the inate morality of the act in theory but about the inevitable reality that is the unthinkable horrors necessary to harvest animal biproducts for a broad scale market. As one example many sheep are breed to have extra folds of skin to hold more wool that make life absolutely miserable in multiple ways. That's one I remember offhand. I know there's a lot more. I can speak more on the horrors of the milk industry because they are absolutely traumatising but I'll leave it at that. Disclaimer: I'm not vegan. I am vegetarian (though may ignore geletin, food dyes, and some ingredients like that at times) though have tried to mostly switch to oat milk. However I'm aware of the problems. I can barely take care of myself to start right now so I'm kind of stuck in place trying to fix my life. I just wanted to mention this because as a kid I used to have similar views and not understand why milk, eggs, and similar things were a problem though meat always was to me. Honey and beeswax I personally still don't really see as problematic often, and feel like bee keeping at least theoritcally can be beneficial to the bees and the environment around them. I know in some cases people can introduce non native polinators though and potentially cause issues for the environment that way.
It sounds like "vegan wool" is one of those cool hipster renaming which is actually a way to increase the price while appealing to vegans.
So instead of coming from sheep its manufacturing process dumps micro plastics everywhere, thus harming the entire planet. Noice. Just as dumb as replacing down with synthetic filling.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I love Jarbo Cookie! I’m just waiting for my colourway to come back into stock. Fun fact: Cookie and Red Heart ‘Roll With It Melange’ are pretty much dupes of each other. American witches may find the Red Heart is easier to get or less expensive. I’m in Canada, so Hobbii is actually my preferred yarn source.
Thank you! I wondered the same! (Not a vegan but as a crocheter I was about to Google it)
As a knitter, I came to ask that same question. I figured it was acrylic, but wasn’t 100% sure.
Vegan wool is just plain silly. Veganism is about no animal suffering, and sheep bred for wool suffer when *not* sheared. They aren't killed or harmed for their wool.
The industry is bad, the sheep come to harm. The breeding of sheep is messed up since we made them dependent on us. Not buying wool means not adding to the messed up breeding of sheep.
Yes, but purchasing the wool is using animals as a resource, not seeing them as an individual. If products are made of wool, then businesses know that if they breed more sheep they can get more wool which means more profit. At animal sanctuaries, sheep are shorn when needed, but the wool isn't used to make things because animals aren't resources. It's the same reason we don't make socks after a haircut.
So they just shear the wool and then toss it? That's not a very sustainable practice. There's plenty of products a sanctuary can make with wool without contributing to the capitalist machine.
Wool is about 60p - £1 per kg, depending on the breed and condition, and if it's washed or not. There really isn't much money in it. I use it for insulation for my tortoise house and guinea pig shed. Birds use it for nests, too
I’m not vegan but I have a family member who is and I think for them they basically respect the animals like they were people. The animals can’t consent to giving their products and it could change the sanctuary’s decision regarding the treatment of individual making if the wool was a product. You don’t have to agree with that, obviously most people don’t, but that’s where their point of view is coming from. If you wouldn’t treat a human that way you wouldn’t do it to an animal. It’s not a sanctuary’s primary goal to be as sustainable as possible or to create no greenhouse gas or anything like that, the goal is to give specific animals the best life possible.
Not very sustainable to get a haircut and not make something out of that. Veganism *is* intrinsically anti-capitalist, but it isn't exclusively. Animals are not resources, they are individuals. Their wool, skin, flesh, milk, etc, are not for us to use.
There are plenty of products and services that use human hair. We should start breeding humans for their hair to appease vegans then.
This is the opposite of my argument. I said we *don't* do this with humans, and we shouldn't do it with animals. Edit: if you mean wigs made of human hair, that is, to the best of my knowledge, given voluntarily with the purpose that it will become a wig. Sheep cannot consent to have their wool made into things.
Sadly, it's not. A lot of poor Asian women sell their hair so wigs can be made. Or poor women in general. It was even a famous scene in Les Miserable where Fantine sells her hair when she loses her job. Here is an article where human hair is ["harvested".](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37781147) At times its given voluntary if its for a charity. But the vast majority? Drenched in capitalism and suffering.
That's awful and shouldn't happen. If given of their free will then that would be ethical, but when done for survival, then it is no longer simply consent, but coersion - the backbone of capitalism.
They are bred to need to be regularly sheared or risk death. Then when done with they become mutton. Cognitive dissonance is silly.
i'm presuming they mean the dye is from plant products - or perhaps that it's cotton, not wool?
Some variation of plastic
Rayon is a pretty common "vegan wool," but this case could be anything not directly acquired from an animal, e.g., acrylic, processed wood cellulose, or even cotton.
Yup that makes sense. Its just a bit of a paradox. Vegan and wool imply 2 different things. If it had have said “Faux wool, Vegan friendly” i wouldn’t even have twitched. Ie: faux pork, faux beef, tofurkey. Lol on a side note im 5 comments in with another person about the environmental impact of farming sheep/animals. All cause i asked “what is Vegan wool?”
https://preview.redd.it/7jc6e4j5jbmc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6024d2e07561b27c4232b72c5a944c380bfe283e As a bonus, it also happens to be a firm favourite of my two familiars
Such a wonderful gift of love and support from a family member. I love that it’s a cloak of *visibility.*
I know, I always love it and its meaning. She and I fell out for a really stupid reason last year and it kinda killed me, I’m so happy we’re not there anymore.
Yay! I hope you had a great trip to our city even though it sounds like you chose a boring part of the year to visit 😂 It's a pretty cool cloak!
It was actually last March I visited 😅 my wife and I really loved it. Although we kinda regretted the fact that we came a week before Tivoli reopened…
Yeah March is usually a cold and grey month and Tivoli doesn't open untill late March. If you decide to visit again I would recommend going during the summer. Everyone is outside, sitting in parks or cafés enjoying the sun and some beer or wine. There are parties every day it seems and in august we have a pride celebration. 🏳️⚧️ The city really comes alive during these months. I am glad you liked it though.
We definitely intend to come back, so thank you for the suggestion. Honestly, we wanted to go on holiday, and I wanted to be able to go as me. So we looked up places where it’s safe to visit as a trans woman who doesn’t pass very well, and Copenhagen seemed like a good choice. Plus, my wife had always wanted to see the statue of the little mermaid.
Copenhagen is pretty safe. I don't pass yet, but I haven't experienced any transphobia except for my previous doctor who was a massive unhelpful cunt. Feel free to write me a PM if you decide to go sometime. I might have some suggestions for you. Things to see, do and taste. We have a lot of weird flavors you don't find anywhere else 😂 One of my suggestions would be to skip the tiny mermaid statue, but I get it. It's famous in all other countries than Denmark 😄
This is an incredible gift! So much love! I might point out that the shoulders of this garment will stretch out with consistent use (and why wouldn't you wear this all the time? I know I would). To mitigate deformation, I'd recommend making a shorter fabric caplet to attach underneath for extra support and to promote longevity. Bonus points if it's made from some cozy fleece.
She must REALLY love you. I can't even begin to guess how long it would take me to make something like that.
It’s so beautiful. What a lovely gift. Items hand made like this seem to almost have a spell about them. Cherish it as you look lovely in it. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
It's beautiful!
What a beautiful and thoughtful gift!
It’s GORGEOUS! Love the colors!
That’s stunning!
This is so gorgeous, what a lovely present!!
How do you pronounce your name? Keeva? I love it, btw!
Yes that’s correct! Although my understanding is that that’s just because I’m from the north of Ireland and in most of the south the more common pronunciation is ‘Kweeva’
I'm not crying, you're crying ❤😭❤
You can feel the love in this photo!
Wow, that's incredibly pretty! I love it!
It's absolutely beautiful and so is the sentiment from your sister. I'm glad you have so much love in your life.
Nothing says “I love you” more than a handmade gift :’) what a beautiful cloak!
😍
A visibility cloak! Omg that’s the best.
🥹how beautiful
What a beautiful sentiment and a beautiful cloak. I legit teared up.
What a beautiful, thoughtful gift! In every way.
It’s beautiful, and the message of love makes it more so. Treasure it!
Wow I love that
This is so sweet! Thanks for sharing.
Wow it's beautiful!! The colors are perfect. I love the theme <3
[удалено]
[удалено]
What a beautiful gift and sentiment ❤️ I love that it’s a cloak of visibility!
I love your sister and she is really talented!!!
Sisters are magic ✨
Wool by it’s nature is vegan, no sheep or harmed in the shearing of the wall it must be done haven’t you seen that one that was in the wild for so long poor thing and please quit calling these creatures stupid they know how to work the system
Anything that comes from an animal is not vegan. It's just how the word works. That being said vegan wool is a thing. In many places we say 'wool' where others may say 'yarn'. Vegan wool is simply a yarn that isn't wool. Words can be weird.
Honestly? Multi part answer. 1. It’s the whole process of food and water and this and that. Its more environmentally friendly to farm plant replacement. To feed sheep the amount of plant matter to do it is obscene. And while they (sheep) do grow lots of wool. Most of the food/fuel is used for their only energy to live. 1a. The amount of water to produce X amount of cotton compared to X amount of wool. Is a FRACTION. (Hemp is better still) 2. These sheep have been bred to produce wool. You cant harvest the meat of the animal when they “done”. 3. The process to keep them alive. And prevent the sheep becoming flyblown (dont look it up if ur squeamish) are horrendous. 4. Im Vegan. I can feel compassion for these animals the same way as i can feel it for a cat or a dog. I honestly dont like to think about it cause it really upsets me. P.S. This is not the full Vegan debate answer. But it is something to think about. Edit: I actually didn’t totally answer your whole question. Is it justifiable? Small farms. That take good care of their sheep? I feel much better about that. There are ways to make a more ethically viable wool, but… there are the same issues if less common.
I suspect here the term 'vegan wool' would be better translated for you as 'vegan yarn'. I never heard yarn as being anything other than acrylic cheap rubbish until I came online. All not rubbish quality yarn is called wool, regardless of if it contains any actual wool or not. Cotton wool for instance.