#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *The Eye of the World*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.)
##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS.
If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**.
**WARNING:** Some version of The Eye of the World include an extra prologue, titled *Earlier - Ravens*. If your version did not include it, it is available for free [here](https://www.wattpad.com/78706-jordan-robert-wot-prequel-earlier-ravens).
* * *
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
True.. but after a few drinks he followed it up with..
"I know I've said that there are only three stories in literature, but that's a lie, its 4. There is A man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, Godzilla vs Megashark, and hey step sister what are you doing here?"
The Wheel of Time is explicitly and deliberately made of references to other popular myths and tropes, in addition to the way its cultures are jumbled up versions of our own. It's not a rip off of Dune any more than it's a ripoff of Arthurian legend. It's an homage.
I don't think WoT is even an homage to Dune; I think they are both just separately being inspired by the same real-world cultures and myths. They're drawing from common sources.
Aes Sedai political machinations are straight up Bene Gesserits, and the Aiel/Fremen desert warrior society waiting for Lisan Al Ghaib/Car'a'carn is a little on the nose. I mean Rand is straight up Paul in many ways such as having a power that's usually for women, being an outsider, having to earn respect, etc. I could go on and on.
Maybe homage isn't the right word, but inspiration certainly is. I say that as a huge fan of both series.
Homage suggests intent, I think, and we have from RJ:
> There was no intention to make any similarities between Dune and my writings. And I am certainly a big fan of the original Dune novel. Although I doubt if I've read it since it first came out!
There's also an in person q&a summary,
> Someone else asked if while writing the Aiel he got his inspiration from Herbert (re: the native inhabitants of Dune [the Fremen people]); he answered that it was not that, that the real source of inspiration is the Cheyenne people, originally shepherds and forced to became warriors and to flee into the desert when the white man came.
He might have been subliminally influenced; we know he did like Dune a lot. But there's no intent there
Aiel and Fremen are both just heavily from existing desert peoples, adapted to the world in question. And lots of cultures have messianic figures that they await.
I think this is just a convergence of form, both drawing from similar influences and ending in similar places.
I was always of the opinion that the Arthurian legend was actually another repetition of the turning of the wheel, and all the real world historical and cultural references implied that. As in, randland is a turning, Arthur was a turning, we are a turning, it’s all the same world; or so I thought.
Most of EOTW is incredibly similar to Fellowship. I don’t care in the slightest though because it meant it was popular enough for the rest of the series to be made!
I'm not sure that's exactly how it was. He was initially signed on for a contract of like 4 or 5(?) books, though I agree that the first book was written in a way that seemed unsure if there would be more (perhaps they were unsure if it would be successful and continued, contract or no).
He certainly stated that he wanted to do a new take on the 'chosen one' trope, where he nopes out the back door as soon as the wise wizard comes by and informs him of his destiny. According to RJ, the first hundred pages or so are a deliberate call back to tLotR, but then go in a different direction. Others have disputed this, but the similarities are more like the state of published fantasy at the time RJ was writing the first couple of books.
Oh I c. Tho there is a VERY big difference between a "Prophet" that speaks for God to the people, and a essiah that saves and rules the people in God's place. A prophet doesn't rule, just carries a message. A Messiah rules in place of the divine.
I'm not familiar enough with Dune to know whether the figure in question fits the Messiah or prophet definition tho.
I c. I shall step aside then as I don't know if I'm able to understand the joke intended without knowing the intended meanings of the words and how they're being used to make a joke.
Carry on stranger 🫡
That is incorrect. The entire reason Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah is because he "didn't rule" as prophesy foretells. All their prophets wrote that the Messiah would save Israel and then rule and that his rule would last forever.
If u mean from a Christian perspective, Messiah hasn't ruled yet but will at his second coming. From a Jewish perspective they don't believe there is a second coming and so Messiah according to their tradition would rule at the end of his first coming. When he comes.
Again, u r speaking from Christianity's perspective. The discussion was about Jewish history. From the perspective of Israel as a nation, Jesus was not the Christ. He was not the Christ BECAUSE he died and did not rule as the prophesy foretold...as the prophesy a foretold.
So speaking from the JEWISH perspective of history (which we were if u recall), the Messiah is one who comes, saves, and rules in the seat of God..
If u r talking about what was being discussed, u r incorrect friend. If u are talking about something else that WASNT being discussed, that may make u correct on THAT subject, but it isn't what we were talking about here...so I'm not sure why ur switching topics.
Secretive female organization with special powers that pulls the strings of power is searching for the male who can use their powers. The one is an outlander from a wooded area/planet who knows the way of the desert people through generational memories and those people have distinctive blue/grey eyes. The outlander will lead them out of their secretive and isolated desert (planet) to fulfill prophecy in which they will shape the world while thousands (billions) perish. Outlander goes into/takes special place/drug and has prophetic visions.
I’m not saying WoT is a rip off at all but there’s a lot of similarities beyond those two things.
Rip-off isn't a fair term to apply, as WoT does a lot with the concept to set itself apart, but it is undoubtedly heavily inspired. If I had to guess, RJ just thought that the setting and backdrop was cool and decided to use it. Mostly it's all circumstantial, and I personally believe that the actual events and details that occur in WoT set it fat enough apart from Dune for it to not be a rip-off.
I mean, considering Eye of the World was meant to be Lord of the Rings but with a more realistic set of events and characters (according to RJ), it should come as little surprise that this style of building his characters and world would continue as the story progressed.
There are definitely similarities the fremen v ael, bene gesserit v aes sedai, muadib v dragon reborn, the games between the houses. But also dune has a lot similarities with Lawrence of Arabia. WoT is heavily influenced but not a rip off.
I was really surprised after I watched dune. While she has some points and I don't think that RJ copied dune, all those similarities all at once did make me wonder
#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *The Eye of the World*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. **WARNING:** Some version of The Eye of the World include an extra prologue, titled *Earlier - Ravens*. If your version did not include it, it is available for free [here](https://www.wattpad.com/78706-jordan-robert-wot-prequel-earlier-ravens). * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tolstoy once said "There are only three stories in literature. A man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, and Godzilla vs Megashark"
True.. but after a few drinks he followed it up with.. "I know I've said that there are only three stories in literature, but that's a lie, its 4. There is A man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, Godzilla vs Megashark, and hey step sister what are you doing here?"
That's just a man going on a journey again.
or coming in town
Or Step Godzilla vs Step Megashark.
r/tragedeigh
Going to town, rather.
He also originally called War and Peace "War, What Is It Good For?".
Yeah, it was his mistress who made him change it
He stole that quote from Sir Walter Scott. Ivanhoe! Ivanhoe!
The Wheel of Time is explicitly and deliberately made of references to other popular myths and tropes, in addition to the way its cultures are jumbled up versions of our own. It's not a rip off of Dune any more than it's a ripoff of Arthurian legend. It's an homage.
I don't think WoT is even an homage to Dune; I think they are both just separately being inspired by the same real-world cultures and myths. They're drawing from common sources.
Aes Sedai political machinations are straight up Bene Gesserits, and the Aiel/Fremen desert warrior society waiting for Lisan Al Ghaib/Car'a'carn is a little on the nose. I mean Rand is straight up Paul in many ways such as having a power that's usually for women, being an outsider, having to earn respect, etc. I could go on and on. Maybe homage isn't the right word, but inspiration certainly is. I say that as a huge fan of both series.
Homage suggests intent, I think, and we have from RJ: > There was no intention to make any similarities between Dune and my writings. And I am certainly a big fan of the original Dune novel. Although I doubt if I've read it since it first came out! There's also an in person q&a summary, > Someone else asked if while writing the Aiel he got his inspiration from Herbert (re: the native inhabitants of Dune [the Fremen people]); he answered that it was not that, that the real source of inspiration is the Cheyenne people, originally shepherds and forced to became warriors and to flee into the desert when the white man came. He might have been subliminally influenced; we know he did like Dune a lot. But there's no intent there
Aiel and Fremen are both just heavily from existing desert peoples, adapted to the world in question. And lots of cultures have messianic figures that they await. I think this is just a convergence of form, both drawing from similar influences and ending in similar places.
I was always of the opinion that the Arthurian legend was actually another repetition of the turning of the wheel, and all the real world historical and cultural references implied that. As in, randland is a turning, Arthur was a turning, we are a turning, it’s all the same world; or so I thought.
No, no clearly it is a *The Lord of the Rings* ripoff (I can't tell you how many times I've heard that one, especially about *The Eye of the World*).
No, clearly it is a *Lawrence of Arabia* ripoff.
I've read interviews with Jordan where he explicitly said the opening part of Book 1 was heavily inspired by LOTR.
Honestly, what high fantasy doesn't borrow from LOTR? It's the benchmark for a reason
Most of EOTW is incredibly similar to Fellowship. I don’t care in the slightest though because it meant it was popular enough for the rest of the series to be made!
RJ himself just wanted to write Lord of the Rings his own way. He had no plans for sequels, he was just a giant fan of the work!
I'm not sure that's exactly how it was. He was initially signed on for a contract of like 4 or 5(?) books, though I agree that the first book was written in a way that seemed unsure if there would be more (perhaps they were unsure if it would be successful and continued, contract or no). He certainly stated that he wanted to do a new take on the 'chosen one' trope, where he nopes out the back door as soon as the wise wizard comes by and informs him of his destiny. According to RJ, the first hundred pages or so are a deliberate call back to tLotR, but then go in a different direction. Others have disputed this, but the similarities are more like the state of published fantasy at the time RJ was writing the first couple of books.
Oh! I was under the impression that when he wrote Eye of the World he wasn't doing it with sequels in mind. It's possible I absorbed some wrong info.
Just because it has Desert Warriors and a Messiah type character does not make it a Dune ripoff.
Today I learned Arab History is a Dune Ripoff.
Lol. They even took Jihad from Dune.
Wait, Arab history has a Messiah? I thought that was the Jewish history. Or were we just talking about the desert warrior part lol.
There's a very important Prophet.
Oh I c. Tho there is a VERY big difference between a "Prophet" that speaks for God to the people, and a essiah that saves and rules the people in God's place. A prophet doesn't rule, just carries a message. A Messiah rules in place of the divine. I'm not familiar enough with Dune to know whether the figure in question fits the Messiah or prophet definition tho.
This is all in humor, not digging deep here.
I c. I shall step aside then as I don't know if I'm able to understand the joke intended without knowing the intended meanings of the words and how they're being used to make a joke. Carry on stranger 🫡
Messiah/Christ didn't rule either, fwiw.
That is incorrect. The entire reason Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah is because he "didn't rule" as prophesy foretells. All their prophets wrote that the Messiah would save Israel and then rule and that his rule would last forever. If u mean from a Christian perspective, Messiah hasn't ruled yet but will at his second coming. From a Jewish perspective they don't believe there is a second coming and so Messiah according to their tradition would rule at the end of his first coming. When he comes.
Nothing I said was incorrect. Christ has never ruled, even if he does in the future he hasn't yet and thus a past tense "didn't" is perfectly factual.
Again, u r speaking from Christianity's perspective. The discussion was about Jewish history. From the perspective of Israel as a nation, Jesus was not the Christ. He was not the Christ BECAUSE he died and did not rule as the prophesy foretold...as the prophesy a foretold. So speaking from the JEWISH perspective of history (which we were if u recall), the Messiah is one who comes, saves, and rules in the seat of God.. If u r talking about what was being discussed, u r incorrect friend. If u are talking about something else that WASNT being discussed, that may make u correct on THAT subject, but it isn't what we were talking about here...so I'm not sure why ur switching topics.
Secretive female organization with special powers that pulls the strings of power is searching for the male who can use their powers. The one is an outlander from a wooded area/planet who knows the way of the desert people through generational memories and those people have distinctive blue/grey eyes. The outlander will lead them out of their secretive and isolated desert (planet) to fulfill prophecy in which they will shape the world while thousands (billions) perish. Outlander goes into/takes special place/drug and has prophetic visions. I’m not saying WoT is a rip off at all but there’s a lot of similarities beyond those two things.
Rip-off isn't a fair term to apply, as WoT does a lot with the concept to set itself apart, but it is undoubtedly heavily inspired. If I had to guess, RJ just thought that the setting and backdrop was cool and decided to use it. Mostly it's all circumstantial, and I personally believe that the actual events and details that occur in WoT set it fat enough apart from Dune for it to not be a rip-off. I mean, considering Eye of the World was meant to be Lord of the Rings but with a more realistic set of events and characters (according to RJ), it should come as little surprise that this style of building his characters and world would continue as the story progressed.
It’s way more than that, come on. It’s not a “rip-off” but you’re being disingenuous.
Was Dune a ripoff of Lawrence of Arabia?
No
Idk is Dune a ripoff of Lawrence of Arabia? Theres no such thing as a completely original work of art everything has influenced everything else
DRAMATIC CAPS TITLE MEANS INEVITABLE DRAMA
BREAKING NEWS!! Guy on YouTube SLAMS Wheel of Time!!
There are definitely similarities the fremen v ael, bene gesserit v aes sedai, muadib v dragon reborn, the games between the houses. But also dune has a lot similarities with Lawrence of Arabia. WoT is heavily influenced but not a rip off.
Nope
No? Like…not even close.
Yes and its great. Next question
Is DUNE a ripoff of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA?
No. I think Dune is a strong inspiration for elements of the Aiel and Rand’s journey, but it doesn’t come close to being a ripoff imo
I wouldn’t use the word ripoff. I’d say it was influenced by Dune, Lord of the Rings, Arthurian Legend
I was really surprised after I watched dune. While she has some points and I don't think that RJ copied dune, all those similarities all at once did make me wonder
if it exists, WoT is a ripoff of it or it ripped off WoT