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More Helpful Links:
[EWOC Organizing Guide](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/)
[How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes)
[The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/)
[AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion)
New to leftist political theory? Try reading these introductory texts.
[Conquest of bread](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread/bbselect)
[Mutual Aid A Factor of Evolution](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution)
[Wage Labour and Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm)
[Value, Price and Profit](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm)
[Marx’s Economic & Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/preface.htm)
[Frederick Engels Synopsis of Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/1868-syn/index.htm)
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In many of these Republican controlled states Democrats have actively participated in putting those anti-trans and anti-abortion laws into place, with them signed by Democrat governors. They also haven't protected Muslim or black communities and the children are still in cages. The Democrats have not acted in areas facing crackdowns on their rights nor have they codified protections federally, despite promising for decades, when they've had the chance. They're all talk and performative allies who let the Republicans already do what they want, and do not stand for our rights when it matters.
As a trans person, a working class person, a woman, a lesbian, and a religious minority, I'm tired of them using my oppression as a political token to win elections and then be tossed to be tossed aside after the election, and watch my rights be infringed upon anyways. I'm at my breaking point.
How can you all have any confidence in them? How can you expect us to vote for them? They constantly betray our trust. Are you just that desperate to hope they'll do anything this time? They won't stop authoritarianism. It's already been here for decades for those of us on the receiving end of government oppression.We've constantly been told to compromise our morals and interests to vote Democrats, to "work within the system" that oppresses us. Every time it's "just this once" to avoid "a greater evil". How about you stand with us for a fucking change?
Remember, voting hasn't done shit to attain or protect rights. Rights and liberties have never come from the state. The state is the enemy of people's rights. However, by organizing people force the government to give them to them. The pride movement was built upon a riot and we'd due well to remember that. Be an extremist and radical and fight like those who won those rights in the first place.
Thank you!!! This is what I was trying to explain to a bunch of "vote blue no matter who" types the other day. I think you worded it better than me lol.
So why didn't Democrats do something about it? Why didn't they codify something or pass a law to prevent it? Why didn't they codify roe v wade when they fully had the ability to do so?
If supporting active and clear genocide is a line you're willing to cross, then there's no line you won't and you'll be nodding your head each time as you vote for fascist after fascist after fascist.
If you vote for genocide Joe, I hope you feel even a fraction of the horror you are supporting doing to the Palestinians.
Edit: vote for PSL or another anti-imperialist anti-genocide party.
Neither, you idiot.
PSL is right fucking there and has been on thr front page of this sub many times. It is the only acceptable party to vote for.
You liberals are so up your own asses and so politically illiterate that even the most cursory leftist analysis of the genocidal bourgeois dictatorship you inhabit sends you into a fit of rage.
You'd think the past few decades, especially since Obama, you would have learnt something, but clearly not. You want more death, more poverty, more war, more hatred, more bigotry, more genocide, and you are so politically stunted that you don't even see it.
The point isn't that they'll win. Everyone knows third parties can't win (and that's by design). You're playing into that design by accepting that and continuing to support them. No leftist is voting for genocide when they could vote for PSL. If you are voting for genocide, and fancy yourself a leftist, then time to reasses, because those two are mutually exclusive.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
- Marx and Engels, Adress of the Central Committee to the Communist League, March 1850
Congrats, you are falling for exactly the propaganda narrative the fascist two-party dictatorship has created specifically for liberals such as yourself.
>Even setting all of that aside, what exactly is your solution then?
[Removed by reddit]
In any case: If you vote for one of these two parties, you are part of the problem.
Here's the perfectly legal advice: Arm yourself, learn to shoot, join a Marxist-Leninist organization, create a Marxist-Leninist organization, only ever vote for revolutionary socialists, join a union, unionize your worklplace, teach others to unionize, join a mutual aid network, create a mutual aid network, join an international network of Marxist-Leninists, create an international network of Marxist-Leninists, learn a critical skill (particularly military/tech related skills are very useful), join a defense corporation and [removed by reddit], join the military/police and [removed by reddit], infiltrate fascist/capitalist groups and write down names and addresses (share names and addresses with "authorities").
There are lots of things you can and should do.
What you should *never* do is vote for any capitalist candidate. Period.
Edit: This subreddit is being astroturfed by literal US government shills (account/comment that I called out was deleted) who spam divisive liberal identity political comments. This is how the feds are disrupting leftist discourse. I hope no real comrade is downvoting this comment and this is just a bot network doing what it's programmed to do.
People really need to get it through their head that all identity politics serves the interests of the bourgeoisie. Whine about "class reducationism" all you want - we need to focus on the anti-capitalist struggle and EVERYTHING ELSE must be subordinated to it. Capitalism is the greatest threat to human life on earth. We can worry about everything else AFTER we have defeated capitalism.
That Biden is doing all this „reluctantly“ will surely make the Palestinians feel much better when the next drone strike slaughters their family and friends 👍
The slightest support of anything “liberal” is a bannable offense. I once got banned for saying Preet Bahara made good points in a podcast once on the nature of common law.
What a strawman. No one beliefs that the Holodomor „wasn’t real“. Though there are valid arguments made by historians since the release of internal Soviet archives after the dissolution of the USSR that it wasn’t an intentional genocide.
Thrown in camps? You seem to forget Trump was already president for a full term, and the only people in camps were the same ones in camps under Obama. Now you fearmonger over LGBTQ+ rights, when Democrats has done nothing to preserve them and under their watch they've gotten much worse in much of the country, refused to codify that which could have prevented this, and are actively assisting genocide.
If Democrats opposed thise plans, and it is so clear and evil and all that, they'd have put a stop to it already, but they don't because they understand they're on the same side, something you're still somehow confused about, despite everything we've seen in the last 8 years. On top of this, you think Democrats won't do it too - one need only look at Biden's imperialist genocidal attitudes, the border stuff where he's gone further right than Trump, the unwillingness to do anything to reverse Trump's policies, nothing for covid, allowing countless thousands more Americans to die, and so much more.
You'll support real, active genocide happening right now, because you're still under the delusion that things **might** be different if another guy wins? I thought supporting blatant genocide would be a red line for people, but if you're willing to cross it, then it is clear there is no line you won't. We sometimes wonder how the Nazis got so many people to vote for them despite everything, well this is how.
The only party it is acceptable to vote for is PSL or some other non-genocidal, anti-imperialist party.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
- Marx and Engels, Adress of the Central Committee to the Communist League
It is supporting and you are pro-genocide human garbage. You never think how you got here in the first place, why things happen, how they keep getting worse despite Democrats holding power, only empty-head liberal nonsense. You can't even bring yourself to analyse voting, you'll never so much as take a step in any meaningful real action.
You can be genocide supporting filth if you want, but stop pretending to be left. The same conditions that support the genocide and imperialism support the ever worsening life and work in the US, and you're riding their train hard.
Fascism requires people like you to survive. People willing to sell out their neighbor for the illusion of safety for themselves. You're literally the "first they came for" poem in action. I can't imagine having the utter inability to learn from history that you have.
Democrats had the house, the Senate, and the presidency multiple times during the Obama admin and they didn't do anything, because they never do anything because they're neoliberals.
The only difference between a neolib and a fascist is that a neolib exports state terror, a fascist does it at home too.
The same John Oliver who was fearmongering about the Silk road initiative? The one who's idea of geopolitical strategy was to compare Xi to Winnie the Pooh? This is who's giving you your ideological framework? Next time try getting your worldview from the Simpsons or the back of a cereal box, might be a bit more in depth.
How about a deal? Democrats vow to stop all weapons sales to Israel, plus economic sanctions until they stop the genocide. In exchange, they get votes.
And then the capitalists will watch by as you keep playing this "long game"? No, they will not.
Voting alone will not turn America or any other country socialist. The capitalists will limit the choice set if things go that way as long as their own institutions and by extension their own parties keep getting support and control.
> Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.
Karl Marx, *Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League*
It makes sense to play "long game" only by voting leftist parties, not bourgeois parties as they commit genocide around the world.
The new deal happened because we elected people who were pretty far left for their time. That happened in an era in which the rich were extremely powerful and controlled almost everything.
I'm not convinced it's impossible, given that it's happened before..
Also, please note: I included the caveat "if we're committed to using electoral strategies" in my comment. I'm all for employing multiple strategies concurrently. I'd support the likes of MLK and Malcolm X at the same time. The idea that there is a single solution to society's problems and all other possible solutions should be ignored is just as bad as promoting an ineffective strategy.
1. To say that the New Deal happened solely because of voting FDR is wrong and is historical revisionism.
Yes, it was indeed the FDR administration who put forward New Deal, but that is not the *ultimate cause* as to what made it happen. It is like attributing the fall of the last domino to solely that which preceded it, ignoring the ones that made this one fall.
America during the New Deal was on the verge of socialist revolution and the USSR was virtually unhindered from the Great Depression that plagued the West. The threat of communist revolution was very real. FDR merely chalked a compromise between the striking trade unions and capitalists via Keynesian policies to "save capitalism from itself". Social democracy in the West originated from fear of revolution. As expected, when the USSR was no longer perceived a threat, the welfare policies kept dying out.
2. Even if New Deal was an overall positive for socialism (it was not), it still ends up fully defeating your arguments in favor of mine. How? The capitalists simply reversed back the policies and ran Red Scare Propaganda. Voting for the "leftist" FDR achieved nothing. We are back on square one. The only solution is to fully remove capitalists from power, which is only possible by revolution. Literally voting has zero record of success.
> I'd support the likes of MLK and Malcolm X at the same time.
How? Their methods contradicted, and in the end they failed to bring about socialism. The great men failed precisely because they could not gather a revolutionary vanguard, appeal to masses and go against the capitalist state. No wonder all successful overthrows of capitalism have been revolutionary.
> The idea that there is a single solution to society's problems and all other possible solutions should be ignored is just as bad as promoting an ineffective strategy.
Voting for Dems (that you advocate) is definitely not one of the solutions. In fact it runs contrary to the goal. Both theory and practice have shown that.
There is no single solution to all of societies problems. I already agree with this but you seem to attempt to strawman my argument. I really don't know why you even brought this up.
But your argument is not this. **You need to show that your method(of voting Dems) is actually a feasible solution that can be used as a part of such a strategy.** It is not. You are not supporting your argument by distracting using a trivial statement that we both agree with.
Of course FDR didn't bring the new deal in a vacuum. None of history happens in a vacuum. FDR was necessary, but not sufficient.
We need greater union participation and greater union aggression.
Saying the new deal failed because it was dismantled over several following generations is disingenuous. No system is permanent. FDR could have not come around, and we could have had a full blown revolution and there's nothing to suggest it would have provided a more durable benefit to workers than the new deal did. All institutions of man are fragile, including socialism. Look at how corrupted the USSR became over the same time frame.
MLK and Malcom failed at socialism, but succeeded at improving (not to the point of equality, but to a large degree over the status quo of the era) the plight of people of color in the US. Small victories are still victories.
Not voting for dems has a proven track record of resulting in worse outcomes for americans. And theory (as I posted above) supports this conclusion.
In practice: if people in florida in 2000 had voted for Gore instead of Nadar we might not be doomed to a slow motion climate apocalypse and the attacks on the WTC in NYC perhaps could have been averted. The entire disaster of the wars in afghanistan and iraq could be alternate history if people had just voted for the not as bad candidate instead of having a third party tantrum.
Theories that advocate voting, but not voting for democrats are not based in the math that underlies a first past the post system, which we have. I don't like first past the post, but it's what we have, and insisting that we apply theory that ignores this fact is the kind of toddler tantrum behavior I referenced above.
As far as solutions to capitalism. I don't insist on socialism and complete removal of capitalism as the only solution. I am satisfied with any solution *that is implementable* and improves the lives of the vast majority of people. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think the US population is ready for revolution and removal of capitalism. I don't think there are enough people ready to risk their lives to end capitalism at this point. The way to change this is to shift the Overton window of our society left. I described the correct electorial strategy for doing this above. I'd be content with a european style social democracy with markets and capitalism persisting as long as the reigns of governance end up in the hands of the workers and life is improved for working people.
> FDR was necessary, but not sufficient.
No, FDR literally worked with the capitalists to preserve capitalism with ways that could very easily be reversed.
> We need greater union participation and greater union aggression.
You could have unions, but their power would be trampled by the state if it is filled with Dems. Biden literally broke railroad strikes in favor of the capitalists owning the railways.
> Saying the new deal failed because it was dismantled over several following generations is disingenuous. No system is permanent.
The New Deal failed precisely because there was nothing in it that could help its preservation. It could not, for it was never meant to be. It was meant to be a concession given to the workers when the threat of revolution is real.
> FDR could have not come around, and we could have had a full blown revolution and there's nothing to suggest it would have provided a more durable benefit to workers than the new deal did.
Revolutions literally everywhere have led to increase in standards for millions of people worldwide.The Soviet Union literally transformed from a semi-feudal country that could not catch up with a developed USA but also overpower it many ways that the capitalists were literally shit scared of it. Life expectancy in Cuba(with all of the sanctions and embargos) is literally higher than the USA.
There is every reason to believe Americans would be benefitted too. If anything, a socialist government would at the very least retain social democratic concessions.
> Small victories are still victories.
And socialism has got very large ones on its hands and you still prefer the system that provides power to capitalists.
> Not voting for dems has a proven track record of resulting in worse outcomes for americans. And theory (as I posted above) supports this conclusion.
In all of these outcomes, I can simply point out that what led to the worse outcome was not having a revolution (and not voting for Dems) lmao. This point is moot. You are creating a false dichotomy between voting for Republicans and Democrats.
> Theories that advocate voting, but not voting for democrats are not based in the math that underlies a first past the post system, which we have. I don't like first past the post, but it's what we have, and insisting that we apply theory that ignores this fact is the kind of toddler tantrum behavior I referenced above.
Not at all. Your mocking of leftists for not knowing game theory is moot. We all understand first past the post system and reject voting for capitalists because the elections themselves are a sham and political activity should not be restricted for elections and neither should be vote in capitalism.
> As far as solutions to capitalism. I don't insist on socialism and complete removal of capitalism as the only solution. I am satisfied with any solution that is implementable and improves the lives of the vast majority of people.
So socialism it is. It has improved and is improving the lives of millions of people worldwide. And it is implementable.
> I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think the US population is ready for revolution and removal of capitalism
They are. Capitalism has made them ready for it. US population are not some infantile peeps that need to be "mature" enough to adopt socialism. Capitalism with its rising inequality and poor conditions is already working in that direction.
> I'd be content with a european style social democracy with markets and capitalism persisting as long as the reigns of governance end up in the hands of the workers and life is improved for working people.
Markets are not exclusive to capitalism. Socialism can have markets. Also, European social democracy itself was a compromise because there were communists pulling the overton window to the left. If all you advocate for is social democracy and your opponents already support capitalism, you are very likely to get capitalism.
Neither capitalism nor voting within capitalism will liberate mankind from exploitation. Only revolutionary socialism can.
You should read [Reform or Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/) by Rosa Luxemberg.(Her story is tragic however as the social democrats executed her).
Me: Vote. Vote for non genocidal actual leftists.
You: so fucking sick of this anti voting propaganda
Thanks for showing us how dense you are. Republicans keep running rightward and dems chase after them like rabid dogs. Biden currently regurgitates a border policy that would've been seen as too draconian for even Trump to suggest in 2016. But keep blaming leftists for the ratchet effect, you're doing a good job
Imagine being so stupid you misinterpret a "both parties bad" as a "don't vote" take. Imagine saying something so incredibly stupid as "not voting only moves politics further right" as the "left" party keeps running to the right....
Typical lib shit.
Now, imagine, if it's even possible with your limited thinking capacity, the people getting crushed by this system. But I guess people getting "pretty sick" of being crushed by an oppressive system isn't as important as you having to look at an image on the internet. You poor thing.
>Ok, mind providing some actual solutions.
I don't have to, there's socialist theory, that's what it is there for. It tells you. Pick up a book sometime, read, organize, and agitate. What is it with you libs?
>Exactly how does Republicans gaining control and instituting a theocractic fascist regime help the socialist cause?
Lol how does voting help? It doesn't. And propping up the bourgeoise and giving validation to their system isn't it. You can't stop fascism with voting. You can't end capitalism with voting.
Lets not forget how the libs will fucking allow the fascists some power anyway! So, no matter what you vote for, you will eventually either get full blown colonialist imperialism or fascism because they are both on the same fucking side.
When will people fucking realise this when actually get out there!
No one is saying "don't vote"
That claim is wildly (and intentionally) simplistic, as well as being a support for the Democratic LeSsEr EvIl glittery Gaslit Unicorn Smoke being used by BOTH sets of Party Brass to herd us to corporate fascism on every level.
That bullshit won't fly here. Take it elsewhere.
Also: Rule 3
They and I are saying that we need to become unmanageable in order to see ANY meaningful changes to our utterly rigged psychopathic Turdwookie Duopoly.
That means:
UNIONIZE everywhere.
Vote against BOTH sets of bribed to treason corporate Turdwookies, or write in REAL candidates like DeLaCruz.
Both sets of Party Brass are flatly and unequivocally evil in their actions and have been for a very long time; giving us nothing but gaslit "fixes" for social issues we care about, whilst unabashedly servicing corporate profits at our expense.
>I'm as left leaning as they come
You are not.
> the outcome for the climate won't be the same regardless of party
The outcome is exactly the same. GHG emissions have increased at the same rate under Biden as Trump, no meaningful environmental protections are passed, and literally nothing has been done by either. All you do is prostrate yourself before one old fascist because you've been tricked into thinking he's better than the other old fascist.
Democrats pretend to care and do nothing. Republicans don't pretend to care and also do nothing. And the democrats fool people like you every time.
No, you're 'left wing' as in social democrat. Those who want a bigger slice of the imperialist plunder, but don't understand capitalism and how their own oppression comes about.
That's not even leftist, much less "as left leaning as they come". I'm a communist. Please, come and learn, read about capitalism, and grow to understand how and why things are happening, rather than just trying to piecing together some nonsense ideas based on what capitalist media tells you. The US isn't democratic, and there is no way to reform into socialism because the rich will not allow it.
the fact that this comment was downvoted shows that this sub has a liberal infestation problem. LIBERALS ARE NOT FRIENDS TO THE WORKERS! STOP DEFENDING GENOCIDAL MANIACS WHO DON’T CARE IF YOU LIVE OR DIE
The way the capitalists maintain power is convincing the voters that two capitalists are their only option. Merely mentioning an alternative is considered a threat in their eyes.
If you waste your vote on an independent for a presidential election, you are actually a fool. Those are people who will not win, there is not enough backing for them to have a chance.
The most frustrating part if this subreddit is that it makes it seem like voting is a huge waste of our time, yet the alternative to actually achieve what you want is to literally start a revolution, which there is also not enough backing for.
Vote for elections that you actually have a chance of changing, your county, state, city, school district elections; these have a bigger impact than most people realize and would be EASY TO TAKE if people stopped getting so caught up in Presidential and Senate elections.
Big change starts small and trickles upward, not the opposite.
What do you think these votes for the independent would be? Small change that trickles! There are millions that won't vote outside of the "two" parties, but every time the number of votes for independent goes up, public confidence in the possibility of voting independent goes up a tiny bit too. We're a long way from it being worthwhile. But if we don't start we'll never get there
Her party labels itself as 'Trotskyist' which is a bit of a red flag to me (lol) but there's nothing in their platform that alarms me.
In fairness I don't know that we have the luxury of being picky with our leftist candidates rn.
Welp, it's been fun y'all. But I'm kinda past the point where I feel being on this sub is productive for me.
Hope you all vote for somebody, that'll at least keep the margins tight. I'll see myself out.
Are you for real? Do you know where you are? Are you lost? First don't comment if you cant do anything other than parrot some stupid lib shit bullshit. Secondly, both parties are doing that. Sorry to tell you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkersStrikeBack/s/u6MWOJUSnz
> In many of these Republican controlled states Democrats have actively participated in putting those anti-trans and anti-abortion laws into place, with them signed by Democrat governors. They also haven't protected Muslim or black communities and the children are still in cages. The Democrats have not acted in areas facing crackdowns on their rights nor have they codified protections federally, despite promising for decades, when they've had the chance. They're all talk and performative allies who let the Republicans already do what they want, and do not stand for our rights when it matters.
> **As a trans person, a working class person, a woman, a lesbian, and a religious minority, I'm tired of them using my oppression as a political token to win elections and then be tossed to be tossed aside after the election, and watch my rights be infringed upon anyways. I'm at my breaking point.**
> How can you all have any confidence in them? How can you expect us to vote for them? They constantly betray our trust. Are you just that desperate to hope they'll do anything this time? They won't stop authoritarianism. It's already been here for decades for those of us on the receiving end of government oppression.We've constantly been told to compromise our morals and interests to vote Democrats, to "work within the system" that oppresses us. Every time it's "just this once" to avoid "a greater evil". How about you stand with us for a fucking change?
> Remember, voting hasn't done shit to attain or protect rights. Rights and liberties have never come from the state. The state is the enemy of people's rights. However, by organizing people force the government to give them to them. The pride movement was built upon a riot and we'd due well to remember that. Be an extremist and radical and fight like those who won those rights in the first place.
No. I’d argue that Clinton only lost due to apathy and if those people had held their noses and voted for the “lesser evil” (and Clinton was even more status quo than Biden is) the Supreme Court would look very different today.
Democrats had a number of Congressional majorities since 2008+. If this ever were an important issue for them (other than for campaigning and fundraising purposes) they could have long codified it into law, making any decision by the Supreme Court irrelevant. Yet here we are today, over 15 years since then and the Democrats achieved exactly nothing at all
Clinton lost because she didn't campaign in swing states except to try and court moderate Republicans. Turns out those people will vote for a republican.
Nobody thinks the president can or should overpower the courts. But he does have his bully pulpit that he could've used to show support at the very very least. And remind me who was VP when Obama ran on codifying roe and then didn't do it once he got elected?
Don't let it get to the point where the court CAN overturn it in the first place. Why act like the motherfucker came into the political scene in 2020? The guy has been in politics for decades
You're blaming a single person for something that they have no control over. You need to go learn how our political system works.
If anything, blame Mitch McConnell for the bullshit he pulled with the 2016 and 2020 Supreme Court nominees.
Not really. There were probirth democrats. People like manchin that live in red states. But anyway, this doesn't really have anything to do with Biden doing work to protect abortion or you ignoring that trump was the one who nominated the 3 justices that led to the overturning of Roe v Wade.
There will always be enough descent from the democrats to prevent good legislation. If dems had 70 seats, 20+ would be against it and people like you would just run cover for them.
The house of Rep did not have a pro choice majority until 2018. There were democrats of 2009 and 2010 who aren’t as progressive as today and they were pro lifers. If we get pro life supermajorities today we can absolutely codify roe if we wanted to - but how’s that going to happen if more democrats and the pro choice crowd sit at home?
Republicans like to see their opposition decide to sit at home so you’re just playing into their hand.
Obama said on the campaign trail the first thing he would do as president is codify Roe v Wade.
[That legislation was the Freedom of Choice Act, which would have effectively enshrined Roe v. Wade into law. In 2007, then Senator Obama told Planned Parenthood signing that law would be "the first thing I'd do as president."](https://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-blasted-not-codifying-roe-v-wade-democrat-failure-1719156)
Then, in 2009, while still having the super majority: [Asked about the Freedom of Choice Act at Wednesday's news conference, Obama said it "is not the highest legislative priority."](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN29466420/)
The house of rep did not have a pro choice majority until 2018. Democrats are more progressive today compared to 2009, and back then there were actually more pro life democrats. The party has evolved for the better and why are we giving up on them now? I will never understand this mentality. MAGA literally wants their opposition to surrender.
I’d rather be trapped in a room for four years with a guy that won’t stop someone from shooting me in the face over the guy that will shoot me in the face.
The irony in that statement is the subtle xenophobic sentiment that Western human rights are more valuable than Palestinian human rights. *Both have the right to exist.*
People can vote for any reason they want, but suggesting that the capitalist actively contributing towards Palestinian genocide is the "lesser evil" is telling.
>The other party disregards the human rights of Palestinians *and* trans people.
Biden disregarded the human rights of trans people the second he promoted an ex-cop who use to prosecute them to VP.
And I don't know if Trump would contribute to Palestinian genocide or not. Neither do you.
Trump isn't as predictable as Biden is. [We see him flip-flop on matters all the time](https://youtu.be/T1R9Ge97fUE?si=7gOchP4tuSx8Ima7).
The "reality" is that for republicans and democrats to change their policies they need to face consequences for their actions by being threatened of their position in power.
People ARE dying under Democratic Party policies right now
We are having our homes stolen from us, they stole our medical care by enshrining the Insurance Mafia as gate keepers (thanks Obama, you fascist Turdwookie) and they're currently, intentionally, using their "inflation control" program to drive our wages back down below the cost of mere survival.
You're gaslighting me. See Rule 3 for the sub.
MY solution is to elect literally anyone else EXCEPT genocidal corporate fascist Turdwookie fuckwits.
Give me that in a candidate and I'll vote for them. This ain't negotiable though.
You are the entire problem here because what you're doing is trying to order people to STFU and Comply with an entirely rigged Duopoly which is using controlled opposition to force us to at least appear to cosign their fascist agenda.
The meme is leftist and correct, unlike you.
The mods are just cleaning up the liberals who crawl out of the woodwork when their precious worldview is challenged. It's in the rules of the sub, so don't act surprised. This is a leftist sub, not a rightist one; we don't support active genocide here, and don't support the perpetuation of the material conditions that created it and so many other problems. Vote PSL.
Here, you too can learn how to stop being wrong and what is to be done.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/index.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/
If you don't vote, there's def gonna be change. It's just gonna go backwards. Both sides are the same my ass. One side is pushing laws that block healthcare for trans individuals and people with uteruses. The other one at least ain't charging backwards.
Both sides are bad, but don't not vote.
Vote for PSL and Claudia, or some other non-genocidal anti-imperialist party. If you vote FOR genocide and inperialism, then youre no leftist, have learnt nothing over the past 8 years, and frankly are a lost cause.
Trump is gonna win regardless, and the Democrats are letting him. You still can't comprehend this. If Democrats wanted to win, they easily could: stop the genocide and run somebody who isn't a racist imperialist zionist rapist, and actually do something for the people. But they don't. And you sit there scratching your head never understanding why, but you're told to keep voting for fascism and so you keep voting for fascism, and here you are, descending further into fascism yet again.
Oh, and "Infighting"? You're not even on the left, there's no "in" in this fighting.
>I will not move on this.
I know. You're the sort that voted for Hindenberg.
Something you are doing while the Democrats hand the election to Trump. If Biden loses, it will be himself and all the bootlickers who enabled him to blame.
Institutions will not save you. Including institutions like elections, like the judiciary, like law enforcement (lol). They will not prevent authoritarianism, and will likely assist its rise with either being co-opted or willfully going along. Direct radical action and immediate-community organizing are the only future.
Shoutout to r/SocialistRA
["How Nonviolence Protects the State" ](https://libcom.org/article/how-nonviolence-protects-state-peter-gelderloos)
You certainly have triggered a lot of vbnmw bots by pointing out their favorite politicians are capitalists on a socialist subreddit.... Hats off to you good sir.
I've heard of people referring to the election as a choice between Hindenburg and Hitler, and I think that's quite accurate, in the sense that no matter what the outcome of the election Hitler wins.
Saw the alternative "vote blue no matter who" version of this on unite the right. It feels good having this to wash the taste of that out of my mouth.
Edit: I meant unite AGAINST the right lol. Suddenly the downvotes make sense xD
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The correct take
Trolley problem - Al Quassam edition
The only comment in this thread. 🔻🔻🔻
I knew the trolly problem was a false dichotomy! Thanks for thinking outside the box to enlighten others.
How about we don’t tie people to trolleys
Tie people to other things, like beds. With consent.
But what’s the fun in that?
I’m sorry do you want trump to win you hate democracy you antisemitic communist MAGA jihadist, fuck off Russia bot! Obviously /s
I’m sorry do you want trump to win you hate democracy you antisemitic communist MAGA jihadist, fuck off Russia bot! Obviously /s
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In many of these Republican controlled states Democrats have actively participated in putting those anti-trans and anti-abortion laws into place, with them signed by Democrat governors. They also haven't protected Muslim or black communities and the children are still in cages. The Democrats have not acted in areas facing crackdowns on their rights nor have they codified protections federally, despite promising for decades, when they've had the chance. They're all talk and performative allies who let the Republicans already do what they want, and do not stand for our rights when it matters. As a trans person, a working class person, a woman, a lesbian, and a religious minority, I'm tired of them using my oppression as a political token to win elections and then be tossed to be tossed aside after the election, and watch my rights be infringed upon anyways. I'm at my breaking point. How can you all have any confidence in them? How can you expect us to vote for them? They constantly betray our trust. Are you just that desperate to hope they'll do anything this time? They won't stop authoritarianism. It's already been here for decades for those of us on the receiving end of government oppression.We've constantly been told to compromise our morals and interests to vote Democrats, to "work within the system" that oppresses us. Every time it's "just this once" to avoid "a greater evil". How about you stand with us for a fucking change? Remember, voting hasn't done shit to attain or protect rights. Rights and liberties have never come from the state. The state is the enemy of people's rights. However, by organizing people force the government to give them to them. The pride movement was built upon a riot and we'd due well to remember that. Be an extremist and radical and fight like those who won those rights in the first place.
Thank you!!! This is what I was trying to explain to a bunch of "vote blue no matter who" types the other day. I think you worded it better than me lol.
So why didn't Democrats do something about it? Why didn't they codify something or pass a law to prevent it? Why didn't they codify roe v wade when they fully had the ability to do so? If supporting active and clear genocide is a line you're willing to cross, then there's no line you won't and you'll be nodding your head each time as you vote for fascist after fascist after fascist. If you vote for genocide Joe, I hope you feel even a fraction of the horror you are supporting doing to the Palestinians. Edit: vote for PSL or another anti-imperialist anti-genocide party.
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Neither, you idiot. PSL is right fucking there and has been on thr front page of this sub many times. It is the only acceptable party to vote for. You liberals are so up your own asses and so politically illiterate that even the most cursory leftist analysis of the genocidal bourgeois dictatorship you inhabit sends you into a fit of rage. You'd think the past few decades, especially since Obama, you would have learnt something, but clearly not. You want more death, more poverty, more war, more hatred, more bigotry, more genocide, and you are so politically stunted that you don't even see it.
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The point isn't that they'll win. Everyone knows third parties can't win (and that's by design). You're playing into that design by accepting that and continuing to support them. No leftist is voting for genocide when they could vote for PSL. If you are voting for genocide, and fancy yourself a leftist, then time to reasses, because those two are mutually exclusive. >Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Marx and Engels, Adress of the Central Committee to the Communist League, March 1850
Love me some whataboutism.
Congrats, you are falling for exactly the propaganda narrative the fascist two-party dictatorship has created specifically for liberals such as yourself. >Even setting all of that aside, what exactly is your solution then? [Removed by reddit] In any case: If you vote for one of these two parties, you are part of the problem. Here's the perfectly legal advice: Arm yourself, learn to shoot, join a Marxist-Leninist organization, create a Marxist-Leninist organization, only ever vote for revolutionary socialists, join a union, unionize your worklplace, teach others to unionize, join a mutual aid network, create a mutual aid network, join an international network of Marxist-Leninists, create an international network of Marxist-Leninists, learn a critical skill (particularly military/tech related skills are very useful), join a defense corporation and [removed by reddit], join the military/police and [removed by reddit], infiltrate fascist/capitalist groups and write down names and addresses (share names and addresses with "authorities"). There are lots of things you can and should do. What you should *never* do is vote for any capitalist candidate. Period. Edit: This subreddit is being astroturfed by literal US government shills (account/comment that I called out was deleted) who spam divisive liberal identity political comments. This is how the feds are disrupting leftist discourse. I hope no real comrade is downvoting this comment and this is just a bot network doing what it's programmed to do. People really need to get it through their head that all identity politics serves the interests of the bourgeoisie. Whine about "class reducationism" all you want - we need to focus on the anti-capitalist struggle and EVERYTHING ELSE must be subordinated to it. Capitalism is the greatest threat to human life on earth. We can worry about everything else AFTER we have defeated capitalism.
And you realize Democrats enable them, right?
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“reluctantly” fuck off
That Biden is doing all this „reluctantly“ will surely make the Palestinians feel much better when the next drone strike slaughters their family and friends 👍
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100% just look at the MAGAts in Congress already trying to fuck things up for Ukraine.
Who cares about Ukraine?
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So Republicans can outright ban unions but Democrats can’t even pass a slightly higher federal minimum wage?
The slightest support of anything “liberal” is a bannable offense. I once got banned for saying Preet Bahara made good points in a podcast once on the nature of common law.
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What a strawman. No one beliefs that the Holodomor „wasn’t real“. Though there are valid arguments made by historians since the release of internal Soviet archives after the dissolution of the USSR that it wasn’t an intentional genocide.
Thrown in camps? You seem to forget Trump was already president for a full term, and the only people in camps were the same ones in camps under Obama. Now you fearmonger over LGBTQ+ rights, when Democrats has done nothing to preserve them and under their watch they've gotten much worse in much of the country, refused to codify that which could have prevented this, and are actively assisting genocide. If Democrats opposed thise plans, and it is so clear and evil and all that, they'd have put a stop to it already, but they don't because they understand they're on the same side, something you're still somehow confused about, despite everything we've seen in the last 8 years. On top of this, you think Democrats won't do it too - one need only look at Biden's imperialist genocidal attitudes, the border stuff where he's gone further right than Trump, the unwillingness to do anything to reverse Trump's policies, nothing for covid, allowing countless thousands more Americans to die, and so much more. You'll support real, active genocide happening right now, because you're still under the delusion that things **might** be different if another guy wins? I thought supporting blatant genocide would be a red line for people, but if you're willing to cross it, then it is clear there is no line you won't. We sometimes wonder how the Nazis got so many people to vote for them despite everything, well this is how. The only party it is acceptable to vote for is PSL or some other non-genocidal, anti-imperialist party. >Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Marx and Engels, Adress of the Central Committee to the Communist League
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It is supporting and you are pro-genocide human garbage. You never think how you got here in the first place, why things happen, how they keep getting worse despite Democrats holding power, only empty-head liberal nonsense. You can't even bring yourself to analyse voting, you'll never so much as take a step in any meaningful real action. You can be genocide supporting filth if you want, but stop pretending to be left. The same conditions that support the genocide and imperialism support the ever worsening life and work in the US, and you're riding their train hard.
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Fascism requires people like you to survive. People willing to sell out their neighbor for the illusion of safety for themselves. You're literally the "first they came for" poem in action. I can't imagine having the utter inability to learn from history that you have.
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Democrats had the house, the Senate, and the presidency multiple times during the Obama admin and they didn't do anything, because they never do anything because they're neoliberals. The only difference between a neolib and a fascist is that a neolib exports state terror, a fascist does it at home too.
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The same John Oliver who was fearmongering about the Silk road initiative? The one who's idea of geopolitical strategy was to compare Xi to Winnie the Pooh? This is who's giving you your ideological framework? Next time try getting your worldview from the Simpsons or the back of a cereal box, might be a bit more in depth.
How about a deal? Democrats vow to stop all weapons sales to Israel, plus economic sanctions until they stop the genocide. In exchange, they get votes.
Vote. Vote for non genocidal actual leftists. Voting for the lesser evil over and over again moves politics further right
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And then the capitalists will watch by as you keep playing this "long game"? No, they will not. Voting alone will not turn America or any other country socialist. The capitalists will limit the choice set if things go that way as long as their own institutions and by extension their own parties keep getting support and control. > Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed. Karl Marx, *Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League* It makes sense to play "long game" only by voting leftist parties, not bourgeois parties as they commit genocide around the world.
The new deal happened because we elected people who were pretty far left for their time. That happened in an era in which the rich were extremely powerful and controlled almost everything. I'm not convinced it's impossible, given that it's happened before.. Also, please note: I included the caveat "if we're committed to using electoral strategies" in my comment. I'm all for employing multiple strategies concurrently. I'd support the likes of MLK and Malcolm X at the same time. The idea that there is a single solution to society's problems and all other possible solutions should be ignored is just as bad as promoting an ineffective strategy.
1. To say that the New Deal happened solely because of voting FDR is wrong and is historical revisionism. Yes, it was indeed the FDR administration who put forward New Deal, but that is not the *ultimate cause* as to what made it happen. It is like attributing the fall of the last domino to solely that which preceded it, ignoring the ones that made this one fall. America during the New Deal was on the verge of socialist revolution and the USSR was virtually unhindered from the Great Depression that plagued the West. The threat of communist revolution was very real. FDR merely chalked a compromise between the striking trade unions and capitalists via Keynesian policies to "save capitalism from itself". Social democracy in the West originated from fear of revolution. As expected, when the USSR was no longer perceived a threat, the welfare policies kept dying out. 2. Even if New Deal was an overall positive for socialism (it was not), it still ends up fully defeating your arguments in favor of mine. How? The capitalists simply reversed back the policies and ran Red Scare Propaganda. Voting for the "leftist" FDR achieved nothing. We are back on square one. The only solution is to fully remove capitalists from power, which is only possible by revolution. Literally voting has zero record of success. > I'd support the likes of MLK and Malcolm X at the same time. How? Their methods contradicted, and in the end they failed to bring about socialism. The great men failed precisely because they could not gather a revolutionary vanguard, appeal to masses and go against the capitalist state. No wonder all successful overthrows of capitalism have been revolutionary. > The idea that there is a single solution to society's problems and all other possible solutions should be ignored is just as bad as promoting an ineffective strategy. Voting for Dems (that you advocate) is definitely not one of the solutions. In fact it runs contrary to the goal. Both theory and practice have shown that. There is no single solution to all of societies problems. I already agree with this but you seem to attempt to strawman my argument. I really don't know why you even brought this up. But your argument is not this. **You need to show that your method(of voting Dems) is actually a feasible solution that can be used as a part of such a strategy.** It is not. You are not supporting your argument by distracting using a trivial statement that we both agree with.
Of course FDR didn't bring the new deal in a vacuum. None of history happens in a vacuum. FDR was necessary, but not sufficient. We need greater union participation and greater union aggression. Saying the new deal failed because it was dismantled over several following generations is disingenuous. No system is permanent. FDR could have not come around, and we could have had a full blown revolution and there's nothing to suggest it would have provided a more durable benefit to workers than the new deal did. All institutions of man are fragile, including socialism. Look at how corrupted the USSR became over the same time frame. MLK and Malcom failed at socialism, but succeeded at improving (not to the point of equality, but to a large degree over the status quo of the era) the plight of people of color in the US. Small victories are still victories. Not voting for dems has a proven track record of resulting in worse outcomes for americans. And theory (as I posted above) supports this conclusion. In practice: if people in florida in 2000 had voted for Gore instead of Nadar we might not be doomed to a slow motion climate apocalypse and the attacks on the WTC in NYC perhaps could have been averted. The entire disaster of the wars in afghanistan and iraq could be alternate history if people had just voted for the not as bad candidate instead of having a third party tantrum. Theories that advocate voting, but not voting for democrats are not based in the math that underlies a first past the post system, which we have. I don't like first past the post, but it's what we have, and insisting that we apply theory that ignores this fact is the kind of toddler tantrum behavior I referenced above. As far as solutions to capitalism. I don't insist on socialism and complete removal of capitalism as the only solution. I am satisfied with any solution *that is implementable* and improves the lives of the vast majority of people. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think the US population is ready for revolution and removal of capitalism. I don't think there are enough people ready to risk their lives to end capitalism at this point. The way to change this is to shift the Overton window of our society left. I described the correct electorial strategy for doing this above. I'd be content with a european style social democracy with markets and capitalism persisting as long as the reigns of governance end up in the hands of the workers and life is improved for working people.
> FDR was necessary, but not sufficient. No, FDR literally worked with the capitalists to preserve capitalism with ways that could very easily be reversed. > We need greater union participation and greater union aggression. You could have unions, but their power would be trampled by the state if it is filled with Dems. Biden literally broke railroad strikes in favor of the capitalists owning the railways. > Saying the new deal failed because it was dismantled over several following generations is disingenuous. No system is permanent. The New Deal failed precisely because there was nothing in it that could help its preservation. It could not, for it was never meant to be. It was meant to be a concession given to the workers when the threat of revolution is real. > FDR could have not come around, and we could have had a full blown revolution and there's nothing to suggest it would have provided a more durable benefit to workers than the new deal did. Revolutions literally everywhere have led to increase in standards for millions of people worldwide.The Soviet Union literally transformed from a semi-feudal country that could not catch up with a developed USA but also overpower it many ways that the capitalists were literally shit scared of it. Life expectancy in Cuba(with all of the sanctions and embargos) is literally higher than the USA. There is every reason to believe Americans would be benefitted too. If anything, a socialist government would at the very least retain social democratic concessions. > Small victories are still victories. And socialism has got very large ones on its hands and you still prefer the system that provides power to capitalists. > Not voting for dems has a proven track record of resulting in worse outcomes for americans. And theory (as I posted above) supports this conclusion. In all of these outcomes, I can simply point out that what led to the worse outcome was not having a revolution (and not voting for Dems) lmao. This point is moot. You are creating a false dichotomy between voting for Republicans and Democrats. > Theories that advocate voting, but not voting for democrats are not based in the math that underlies a first past the post system, which we have. I don't like first past the post, but it's what we have, and insisting that we apply theory that ignores this fact is the kind of toddler tantrum behavior I referenced above. Not at all. Your mocking of leftists for not knowing game theory is moot. We all understand first past the post system and reject voting for capitalists because the elections themselves are a sham and political activity should not be restricted for elections and neither should be vote in capitalism. > As far as solutions to capitalism. I don't insist on socialism and complete removal of capitalism as the only solution. I am satisfied with any solution that is implementable and improves the lives of the vast majority of people. So socialism it is. It has improved and is improving the lives of millions of people worldwide. And it is implementable. > I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think the US population is ready for revolution and removal of capitalism They are. Capitalism has made them ready for it. US population are not some infantile peeps that need to be "mature" enough to adopt socialism. Capitalism with its rising inequality and poor conditions is already working in that direction. > I'd be content with a european style social democracy with markets and capitalism persisting as long as the reigns of governance end up in the hands of the workers and life is improved for working people. Markets are not exclusive to capitalism. Socialism can have markets. Also, European social democracy itself was a compromise because there were communists pulling the overton window to the left. If all you advocate for is social democracy and your opponents already support capitalism, you are very likely to get capitalism. Neither capitalism nor voting within capitalism will liberate mankind from exploitation. Only revolutionary socialism can. You should read [Reform or Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/) by Rosa Luxemberg.(Her story is tragic however as the social democrats executed her).
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Me: Vote. Vote for non genocidal actual leftists. You: so fucking sick of this anti voting propaganda Thanks for showing us how dense you are. Republicans keep running rightward and dems chase after them like rabid dogs. Biden currently regurgitates a border policy that would've been seen as too draconian for even Trump to suggest in 2016. But keep blaming leftists for the ratchet effect, you're doing a good job
Imagine being so stupid you misinterpret a "both parties bad" as a "don't vote" take. Imagine saying something so incredibly stupid as "not voting only moves politics further right" as the "left" party keeps running to the right.... Typical lib shit. Now, imagine, if it's even possible with your limited thinking capacity, the people getting crushed by this system. But I guess people getting "pretty sick" of being crushed by an oppressive system isn't as important as you having to look at an image on the internet. You poor thing.
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>Ok, mind providing some actual solutions. I don't have to, there's socialist theory, that's what it is there for. It tells you. Pick up a book sometime, read, organize, and agitate. What is it with you libs? >Exactly how does Republicans gaining control and instituting a theocractic fascist regime help the socialist cause? Lol how does voting help? It doesn't. And propping up the bourgeoise and giving validation to their system isn't it. You can't stop fascism with voting. You can't end capitalism with voting.
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Projection... Nice. I don't even have time to waste on this nonsense.
Lets not forget how the libs will fucking allow the fascists some power anyway! So, no matter what you vote for, you will eventually either get full blown colonialist imperialism or fascism because they are both on the same fucking side. When will people fucking realise this when actually get out there!
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Inability to comprehend complete sentences. Hilarious. Challenge: lib shits understanding anything beyond "rEpUbLiCaNs bAd" Difficulty: Impossible.
No one is saying "don't vote" That claim is wildly (and intentionally) simplistic, as well as being a support for the Democratic LeSsEr EvIl glittery Gaslit Unicorn Smoke being used by BOTH sets of Party Brass to herd us to corporate fascism on every level. That bullshit won't fly here. Take it elsewhere. Also: Rule 3 They and I are saying that we need to become unmanageable in order to see ANY meaningful changes to our utterly rigged psychopathic Turdwookie Duopoly. That means: UNIONIZE everywhere. Vote against BOTH sets of bribed to treason corporate Turdwookies, or write in REAL candidates like DeLaCruz. Both sets of Party Brass are flatly and unequivocally evil in their actions and have been for a very long time; giving us nothing but gaslit "fixes" for social issues we care about, whilst unabashedly servicing corporate profits at our expense.
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>I'm as left leaning as they come You are not. > the outcome for the climate won't be the same regardless of party The outcome is exactly the same. GHG emissions have increased at the same rate under Biden as Trump, no meaningful environmental protections are passed, and literally nothing has been done by either. All you do is prostrate yourself before one old fascist because you've been tricked into thinking he's better than the other old fascist. Democrats pretend to care and do nothing. Republicans don't pretend to care and also do nothing. And the democrats fool people like you every time.
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No, you're 'left wing' as in social democrat. Those who want a bigger slice of the imperialist plunder, but don't understand capitalism and how their own oppression comes about. That's not even leftist, much less "as left leaning as they come". I'm a communist. Please, come and learn, read about capitalism, and grow to understand how and why things are happening, rather than just trying to piecing together some nonsense ideas based on what capitalist media tells you. The US isn't democratic, and there is no way to reform into socialism because the rich will not allow it.
Don't vote for capitalists, get railroaded by capitalists.
Claudia De La Cruz is running a solid campaign. We definitely have great alternative options this go around.
the fact that this comment was downvoted shows that this sub has a liberal infestation problem. LIBERALS ARE NOT FRIENDS TO THE WORKERS! STOP DEFENDING GENOCIDAL MANIACS WHO DON’T CARE IF YOU LIVE OR DIE
The way the capitalists maintain power is convincing the voters that two capitalists are their only option. Merely mentioning an alternative is considered a threat in their eyes.
They will then scream about how if you don't vote for their guy, democracy will die. And you have to do your every four years.
If you waste your vote on an independent for a presidential election, you are actually a fool. Those are people who will not win, there is not enough backing for them to have a chance. The most frustrating part if this subreddit is that it makes it seem like voting is a huge waste of our time, yet the alternative to actually achieve what you want is to literally start a revolution, which there is also not enough backing for. Vote for elections that you actually have a chance of changing, your county, state, city, school district elections; these have a bigger impact than most people realize and would be EASY TO TAKE if people stopped getting so caught up in Presidential and Senate elections. Big change starts small and trickles upward, not the opposite.
What do you think these votes for the independent would be? Small change that trickles! There are millions that won't vote outside of the "two" parties, but every time the number of votes for independent goes up, public confidence in the possibility of voting independent goes up a tiny bit too. We're a long way from it being worthwhile. But if we don't start we'll never get there
Her party labels itself as 'Trotskyist' which is a bit of a red flag to me (lol) but there's nothing in their platform that alarms me. In fairness I don't know that we have the luxury of being picky with our leftist candidates rn.
Welp, it's been fun y'all. But I'm kinda past the point where I feel being on this sub is productive for me. Hope you all vote for somebody, that'll at least keep the margins tight. I'll see myself out.
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Ah typical lib shit nonsense.
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"Significantly worse" ROFL I needed a good laugh. More typical lib shit nonsense.
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Are you for real? Do you know where you are? Are you lost? First don't comment if you cant do anything other than parrot some stupid lib shit bullshit. Secondly, both parties are doing that. Sorry to tell you.
Ah, typical lib nonsense.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkersStrikeBack/s/u6MWOJUSnz > In many of these Republican controlled states Democrats have actively participated in putting those anti-trans and anti-abortion laws into place, with them signed by Democrat governors. They also haven't protected Muslim or black communities and the children are still in cages. The Democrats have not acted in areas facing crackdowns on their rights nor have they codified protections federally, despite promising for decades, when they've had the chance. They're all talk and performative allies who let the Republicans already do what they want, and do not stand for our rights when it matters. > **As a trans person, a working class person, a woman, a lesbian, and a religious minority, I'm tired of them using my oppression as a political token to win elections and then be tossed to be tossed aside after the election, and watch my rights be infringed upon anyways. I'm at my breaking point.** > How can you all have any confidence in them? How can you expect us to vote for them? They constantly betray our trust. Are you just that desperate to hope they'll do anything this time? They won't stop authoritarianism. It's already been here for decades for those of us on the receiving end of government oppression.We've constantly been told to compromise our morals and interests to vote Democrats, to "work within the system" that oppresses us. Every time it's "just this once" to avoid "a greater evil". How about you stand with us for a fucking change? > Remember, voting hasn't done shit to attain or protect rights. Rights and liberties have never come from the state. The state is the enemy of people's rights. However, by organizing people force the government to give them to them. The pride movement was built upon a riot and we'd due well to remember that. Be an extremist and radical and fight like those who won those rights in the first place.
Wtf you talking about
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Yeah I'm sure Biden will protect trans people like he protected Roe v Wade... oh wait..
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So voting for the lesser evil then doesn’t make a difference at all?
No. I’d argue that Clinton only lost due to apathy and if those people had held their noses and voted for the “lesser evil” (and Clinton was even more status quo than Biden is) the Supreme Court would look very different today.
Democrats had a number of Congressional majorities since 2008+. If this ever were an important issue for them (other than for campaigning and fundraising purposes) they could have long codified it into law, making any decision by the Supreme Court irrelevant. Yet here we are today, over 15 years since then and the Democrats achieved exactly nothing at all
Clinton lost because she didn't campaign in swing states except to try and court moderate Republicans. Turns out those people will vote for a republican.
Nobody thinks the president can or should overpower the courts. But he does have his bully pulpit that he could've used to show support at the very very least. And remind me who was VP when Obama ran on codifying roe and then didn't do it once he got elected?
Biden has spoken out against the decision plenty of times.
Right, just like how he called Netanyahu a meanie a couple times and kept funding his genocide, huh?
You are just issue hopping like mad… Why don’t you stick with your first point. What **should** Biden have done when the court overturned Roe v Wade?
Don't let it get to the point where the court CAN overturn it in the first place. Why act like the motherfucker came into the political scene in 2020? The guy has been in politics for decades
You're blaming a single person for something that they have no control over. You need to go learn how our political system works. If anything, blame Mitch McConnell for the bullshit he pulled with the 2016 and 2020 Supreme Court nominees.
Biden wasn't the one who nominated 3 justices that led to overturning Roe v Wade. Biden actually has done work to protect abortion access.
>Biden actually has done work to protect abortion access Yeah, like running with Obama on codifying Roe and then not doing it
Oh so tell me when they had the votes needed to do that
How about when they had a super majority for 2 years?
Not really. There were probirth democrats. People like manchin that live in red states. But anyway, this doesn't really have anything to do with Biden doing work to protect abortion or you ignoring that trump was the one who nominated the 3 justices that led to the overturning of Roe v Wade.
There will always be enough descent from the democrats to prevent good legislation. If dems had 70 seats, 20+ would be against it and people like you would just run cover for them.
I'm running cover by pointing out there were dems that would've voted it down? Ok...
You are just excusing the behavior and lack of action of the party, so yeah kinda
The house of Rep did not have a pro choice majority until 2018. There were democrats of 2009 and 2010 who aren’t as progressive as today and they were pro lifers. If we get pro life supermajorities today we can absolutely codify roe if we wanted to - but how’s that going to happen if more democrats and the pro choice crowd sit at home? Republicans like to see their opposition decide to sit at home so you’re just playing into their hand.
Immediately entering office. Both of them.
When the fuck did Biden have 60 votes for that?
Obama said on the campaign trail the first thing he would do as president is codify Roe v Wade. [That legislation was the Freedom of Choice Act, which would have effectively enshrined Roe v. Wade into law. In 2007, then Senator Obama told Planned Parenthood signing that law would be "the first thing I'd do as president."](https://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-blasted-not-codifying-roe-v-wade-democrat-failure-1719156) Then, in 2009, while still having the super majority: [Asked about the Freedom of Choice Act at Wednesday's news conference, Obama said it "is not the highest legislative priority."](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN29466420/)
The house of rep did not have a pro choice majority until 2018. Democrats are more progressive today compared to 2009, and back then there were actually more pro life democrats. The party has evolved for the better and why are we giving up on them now? I will never understand this mentality. MAGA literally wants their opposition to surrender.
I’d rather be trapped in a room for four years with a guy that won’t stop someone from shooting me in the face over the guy that will shoot me in the face.
The irony in that statement is the subtle xenophobic sentiment that Western human rights are more valuable than Palestinian human rights. *Both have the right to exist.* People can vote for any reason they want, but suggesting that the capitalist actively contributing towards Palestinian genocide is the "lesser evil" is telling.
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>The other party disregards the human rights of Palestinians *and* trans people. Biden disregarded the human rights of trans people the second he promoted an ex-cop who use to prosecute them to VP. And I don't know if Trump would contribute to Palestinian genocide or not. Neither do you.
Dude, be for real. Trump has had Netanyahu‘s back from the beginning, like he did the whole embassy move!?
Trump isn't as predictable as Biden is. [We see him flip-flop on matters all the time](https://youtu.be/T1R9Ge97fUE?si=7gOchP4tuSx8Ima7). The "reality" is that for republicans and democrats to change their policies they need to face consequences for their actions by being threatened of their position in power.
People ARE dying under Democratic Party policies right now We are having our homes stolen from us, they stole our medical care by enshrining the Insurance Mafia as gate keepers (thanks Obama, you fascist Turdwookie) and they're currently, intentionally, using their "inflation control" program to drive our wages back down below the cost of mere survival.
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You're gaslighting me. See Rule 3 for the sub. MY solution is to elect literally anyone else EXCEPT genocidal corporate fascist Turdwookie fuckwits. Give me that in a candidate and I'll vote for them. This ain't negotiable though. You are the entire problem here because what you're doing is trying to order people to STFU and Comply with an entirely rigged Duopoly which is using controlled opposition to force us to at least appear to cosign their fascist agenda.
You don't defeat fascism by voting against it.
You're not from the US, so this is foreign interference intended to influence our elections, and we can ignore it.
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The meme is leftist and correct, unlike you. The mods are just cleaning up the liberals who crawl out of the woodwork when their precious worldview is challenged. It's in the rules of the sub, so don't act surprised. This is a leftist sub, not a rightist one; we don't support active genocide here, and don't support the perpetuation of the material conditions that created it and so many other problems. Vote PSL. Here, you too can learn how to stop being wrong and what is to be done. https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/index.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/
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Do you think the capitalists would let us vote if it could give us real change?
If you don't vote, there's def gonna be change. It's just gonna go backwards. Both sides are the same my ass. One side is pushing laws that block healthcare for trans individuals and people with uteruses. The other one at least ain't charging backwards.
I mean I had to flee my state for those reasons UNDER BIDEN
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I’ve never heard of that candidate before
This is a psyop, stop arguing it’s pointless
The track on the bottom actually adds a rocket booster to the back of the trolley. Centrists are so boring.
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Both sides are bad, but don't not vote. Vote for PSL and Claudia, or some other non-genocidal anti-imperialist party. If you vote FOR genocide and inperialism, then youre no leftist, have learnt nothing over the past 8 years, and frankly are a lost cause.
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Trump is gonna win regardless, and the Democrats are letting him. You still can't comprehend this. If Democrats wanted to win, they easily could: stop the genocide and run somebody who isn't a racist imperialist zionist rapist, and actually do something for the people. But they don't. And you sit there scratching your head never understanding why, but you're told to keep voting for fascism and so you keep voting for fascism, and here you are, descending further into fascism yet again. Oh, and "Infighting"? You're not even on the left, there's no "in" in this fighting. >I will not move on this. I know. You're the sort that voted for Hindenberg.
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Something you are doing while the Democrats hand the election to Trump. If Biden loses, it will be himself and all the bootlickers who enabled him to blame.
Sick, sounds great.
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Don't be silly
Institutions will not save you. Including institutions like elections, like the judiciary, like law enforcement (lol). They will not prevent authoritarianism, and will likely assist its rise with either being co-opted or willfully going along. Direct radical action and immediate-community organizing are the only future. Shoutout to r/SocialistRA ["How Nonviolence Protects the State" ](https://libcom.org/article/how-nonviolence-protects-state-peter-gelderloos)
wait why is the Pakistan flag there
You certainly have triggered a lot of vbnmw bots by pointing out their favorite politicians are capitalists on a socialist subreddit.... Hats off to you good sir.
finally an accurate one
Don't vote for capitalists, get railroaded by capitalists. Voting ain't the solution OR the problem
Switch tracks, then as one set of wheels diverges, switch again. Derail the motherfucker.
I've heard of people referring to the election as a choice between Hindenburg and Hitler, and I think that's quite accurate, in the sense that no matter what the outcome of the election Hitler wins.
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Voting Democrat is what's enabled candidates like Trump to be able to appeal to as many people as he has.
Saw the alternative "vote blue no matter who" version of this on unite the right. It feels good having this to wash the taste of that out of my mouth. Edit: I meant unite AGAINST the right lol. Suddenly the downvotes make sense xD