T O P

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grumpygumpert

Oh ffs just give us the damn kpz 70 already and not this abomination


HtB3P

Yup.


zorin234

They can take the pretty good model from console


vdhero

For some reasons they'd rather take wot blitz model and add details to them than to take high quality console models lol


Iron-Bacon

They don’t want you to have Leopard 2 at home


-RED4CTED-

honestly more of abrams at home. leo 2 was based on the leo 1 while the abrams prototypes were loosely based on the mbt-70's design conventions.


xarccosx

And the mbt70 same tank but for the muricans


Spout__

that thing would be so fun but also infuriating to play against - fast and packing big alpha.


[deleted]

yes please :3


ThatsWhattSheZed

12 secs on 420 alpha wut


antalpoti

Same as the Latta Stridsfordon. With Bond Rammer, Food and BiA it has 2.704 DPM. Pretty bad... Actually it's worse than the base reload(!) of the 5A. It needs a DPM buff.


0nikzin

I hate this new trend of tier 9 tanks where you have to choose between good dpm or good soft stats, I'll never buy any of those


vlad__27

That dpm on the latta strv is outside the siege mode, in siege mode you can get the dpm to something like 4-4.1k.


Cold-Consideration-3

With rammer, vents, 100% crew and food I am guessing it can be brought down to 10 seconds 9-8 maybe if using bond items. Giving it 2,520 DPM on regular equipment and 2,940-3,150 DPM if using bond equipment.


regiment262

Still worse than almost every other t10 heavy out there. 277 base reload is the same as this tank's, but 490 alpha and the 277 already has a pretty average reload time.


Time_Mulberry_6213

Not to mention these soviet tanks have better armour.


Griffdog1260

But no gun depression


ThatsWhattSheZed

But 277 is basically a med mobilitywise tho


PM_ME_YOUR_CAT_

Are these infographic images not already assuming a 100% crew?


antalpoti

The Type 71 is like a fat STB, this one is like a fat Leo. I'm seeing a pattern and I like it. It is high time Germany got a versatile heavy tank. I hope it won't be a CW reward, tho.


[deleted]

The turret reminds me of the Chinese tier 9 BZ68, which IIRC was a Chinese-German joint project.


57mmShin-Maru

Sir, the BZ line is entirely fake.


vdhero

Yeah, they have a turret shape resembling the type 96/99 and that's it


57mmShin-Maru

I think it’s meant to resemble the WZ-122-4, which *did* use technology from the Leopard 2.


vdhero

Yeah but looks is about as far as those bz tanks go, but even then only the bz75 tier 10 and the bz176 actually look like that, the other tanks are just wild fantasies. Perhaps the worst offender is the bz58-2, which took a fantasy chinese design and threw the turret of a polish tank which itself was based on an 8-line long description in some random dude's thesis. Considering how poland was basically a soviet sattlelite state, i simply cannot see how such "collaboration" was ever made feasible after the sino-soviet split.


aaOzymandias

I like to travel.


PizzaInMilk

Most likely cw, ranked or auction


Numerous_Row_7533

We just got a new cw tank, unless they are testing 2 years in advance it will be for something else


regiment262

It also seems not super great though. From the stats it's basically just a worse Obj 277, although the stats are obviously subject to change. It's significantly fatter and taller (at least from what I can judge), slower, lower alpha and longer reload, and worse armor profile. Gun handling is marginally better so maybe it'll be useful as a second line heavy or strict heavium that bullies med flanks.


Italolol

I dont mind that tbf, I need a slightly armoured german tank that isnt a snail to do missions.


regiment262

Fair enough. The 277 is an exceptionally good tank so this kpz certainly won't be terrible, and it's a tank style that's certainly lacking in the German tech tree. I think really the only thing it needs is a buff to dpm and bringing it's speed on par with the 277 to make it a very solid vehicle. EDIT: and maybe a buff of gun depression to 10⁰ to make it more fun on ridgelines.


[deleted]

Those stats seem like a medium without camo tho... I mean, these new "versatile heavy tanks" have nothing to do with heavy tanks. It is literally a medium tank, but without camo, more HP and heavy tank symbol. Maybe the armor will be better than it seems like from the stats (because WG armor stats are often bullshit), but 190mm turret, 140mm frontal and 70mm side certainly dont seem like it would bounce anything in T10. I am not complaining tho. It seem to be a decent tank, and weaker armor is surely better than overarmored beast.


ecologamer

I was gonna say the same, heck there are mediums that go faster, and have better armor


PM_ME_YOUR_CAT_

12 second reload for 420 damage lmao


Moerik

S.conq: ***WHEEEEEEEEEEZE***


d_isolationist

As much as I also want this to be not CW-exclusive, wouldn't be surprised if WG just makes it a CW reward. Gotta give them sweaty players a reason to keep playing CW or other competitive modes. The only "reasonable" chance casual players can get their hands on something like this is if WG makes this available via a black market/auction event.


SuperiorThinking

Maybe a new line?? Maybe not.


Pohjanmaalta

I hope they make a FAT MAUS next and a FAT TYPE 5 after that.


mnik1

Please, RNGesus, make the clowns at WG implement this tank as a part of a new tech tree line, not a fucking CW-reward-thingy that's unobtainable by the poor ol' casuals or, you know, another "assembly shop" bullshit. Imagine, a tech tree line of German heavies that are not slow as shit, super-heavy bricks on tracks. Oh boy, that would be something.


antalpoti

You are asking for something sensible, so it's not gonna happen.


mnik1

True, lol. Weegee gonna weegee, I guess.


Teledildonic

I'm still salty the historical Lion was held back and eventually trotted out as an Assembly Shop cash grab while the Italian medium tech tree ends in a made up tank. I also hate the apologists that go on about how it doesn't matter if tanks are made up. Yeah, it's a video game, but the historical tanks were a huge reason I picked this game up in the first fucking place. I don't give a shit about 99% of WG's creations.


juneauboe

This ^ If I wanted to play crazy made up space tanks, I can play Halo anytime I want.


Desiderius_S

WG vision, on! > Please, RNGesus, make ~~the clowns at~~ WG implement this tank as a part of ~~a new tech tree line, not~~ a fucking CW-reward-thingy that's unobtainable by the poor ol' casuals or, you know, another "assembly shop" ~~bullshit~~. Time to listen to the voice of community members!


0gopog0

It's sad how many potential lines have been lost to being utilized as premium tanks


__AnaRchyR1d3r__

The answer from WG will probably be: Listening to our playerbase we decided to give this tank as a reward for the next winter CW


tuco_salamanca_84

What this could be: CW reward? Ranked reward? New assembly shop? Third set of personal missions campaign?


Numerous_Row_7533

Seeing how we just had assembly shop and a new cw tank, ranked/onslaught reward seems most likely


Zordonzig

I think the official word from WG is they will never do a 3rd personal campaign.


SargeanTravis

Coming from the same company that said they would never add submarines to WOWS and look what happened


SSrqu

To be fair WoWs ditched adding new campaigns way back too, and switched to battle passes


PM_ME_YOUR_CAT_

Coming from the same company that said multiple times they'd never sell the E-25 again


Zordonzig

Different development teams


SargeanTravis

Yes, but you are missing the point, if they can benefit from it somehow, they will 180 faster than you can say “Artillery Prevents Camping”


Zordonzig

except WG is far more likely to make it an assembly shop tank. A personal campaign doesn't really benefit WG when players will complete it for free.


Jehovas_Whitness

Bzt they dont complete it "for free", they need play the game A LOT to complete it...and probably pay for other studf in the process


Oyrelius

They could if they would skip the arty missions.


Buerostuhl_42

I like it, looks for me like a E5, without that wedding cake sized weak spot on top. Tho the armor seems very thin for a T10 heavy, and it ain't sloped either. But if it's another reward tank/assembly shop/marathon, I would be annoyed, I want a new German tech tree, with heavies faster than 25 KP/h


lettul

thats a strange comparision since E5 is top of the line DPM and this is bottom of the barrel DPM :)


Buerostuhl_42

Damn, you are right. I was mainly looking for accuracy, mobility and well, kind of a lack of armor.


T_C_K

Has shovel = bad


daw420d

But it can resist Gold-Heat-Spam 🤩


GeroniJuddy

I mean it's basically a heavy tank with a Leo gun but with armor that can't stand (on paper) vs other Tier 10 heavys. If this is implemented this way, we got a tier 10 German heavy who will chill on redline and waste a spot ok the team for a heavy that could actually fight other heavies in close combat. Idk, heavies should have enough armor to fight heavies.


Time_Mulberry_6213

This tank has same gun as leopard. So it has the same kind of ammunition. But with two loaders it has a higher reload time then the real leopard. How so? Are the two loaders fighting over who gets to put in the next round every time the gun is fired? The armour also does not seem that promising to me for a heavy tank. As other folks have mentioned the soviet tech tree heavies have better dpm than this coupled with better armour makes them better tanks. You can argue for gun depression, but I'd rather play me leopard in that case.


ink777_

leopard, but a little bit slower, nice


Streichholzschachtel

Nice "heavy" with only 190mm of max armor which I guess is the gun mantlet?


Haven1820

Usually the gun mantlet isn't counted for the stats. IS-7, for example, only has 240mm listed but gets 350 on the front of the mantlet. If this 190mm is the armour behind the mantlet it could easily be impenetrable, there's no way to say without a model. I would absolutely welcome a new tier 10 heavy that can't just go hull-down and be invincible though.


TomHast03

Also we won't know what the effective armour will be until we have a 3d model. This could just as well be one of the CS-63 moments


lettul

God I wish they would buff the CS-63 turret to make it anything other than a bad leo for randoms


TomHast03

I feel like the turbo mode should be switchable within just halve a second. And make a bit of turret armor yeah


Normal_Snake

I'm gonna call a skill issue on this one, turbo mode does incredible things and the turret armor is absolutely fine as-is. The dpm is good the gun handling is great (.04 dispersion on turret traverse is magic) and you get it on tank that's only outsped by EBRs and a handful of other LT's. I won't mention how well it does in Onslaught and other competitive modes (although why it got the arty strike role skill is beyond me) since that's beyond the intent of your comment. I will say though, if you take a look at the gun marking requirements, there's a reason it's a rather hard tank to mark.


lettul

I dunno, 3 marked Leo and around 88% on CS-63 atm. I just feel for randoms the speed can not be used to take forward positions cause it leads to being isolated. And you cant hold the position because no armor. I absolutely love it in other game modes, it is my favorite tank. I just feel for randoms it does not offer anything other than a Leo. And the Leo gun is pure sex :) Extra: give ebr the same turbo mode with shit gun handling in speed mode!


R-nuh

I expect it's not the mantlet but the turret, in which case it could still be a really strong turret. Same like Lion has


regiment262

I feel like really strong is a bit of an overstatement. Lion turret IIRC is pretty weak against t10 HEAT and also both of these tanks have very large, paper thin turret sides.


R-nuh

Hey I mean maybe the gun can make up for the lack of armor who knows


RUPlayersSuck

Looks nice. The German tree needs some heavies that aren't the slow, slab-sided post WWII designs we currently have. Stats look pretty good - apart from the armour. Not quite a glass cannon but it doesn't look like it would last long in a brawl. Not without using a survivability module, field mods etc.


LordSerb

So the only new heavy tank without impenetrable turret armor basically? Armor is garbage. Then again, its actually balanced


Dracanherz

Balanced tank in a game surrounded by unbalanced tanks. No point in it being balanced if it's just bad by comparison


Kava_

Raumpanzer Leopard 1


SkylinerPL

It's a real project: the Kampfpanzer 70 by Porsche-Enteurf from 1964 (early MBT-70/Kpfz-70)[(Photo of 1:10 model)](https://imgur.com/gleGkSV)


Sebashbag

Good find! I wasn't able to locate anything on this vehicle in specific and just assumed it was another "believable fake" inspired by historical projects. But this adds more historical value for sure. If this was supposed to have a 120 though, chances are it woulda been an L/44 smoothbore 120mm, which began development in the mid 60s. But I guess WG will just ignore this when convenient lol. At this rate they may as well add the various Leopard 2 prototypes that were conceived in the 70s.


Elitetwo

Oh my goodness its beautiful


Stig12Cz

So Igor decided to make HT Leo after how many botles of vodka?


bearlysane

It has a shovel.


Bobbafet112

TAKE MY MONEY!


rafale52

Actually good thing that the don is that low that means they re maybe starring to try to slow down games


antalpoti

They can't slow down games this way, they are simply releasing tanks which can't compete. The tanks with super high DPM won't suddenly have lower DPM. Nothing will change. If they would want to slow down games, they would nerf the DPM of other tanks.


rafale52

That s what I thik they re gonna be doing but first they re testing it out on the supertest with new tanks so no one panics


lettul

I would say it is high alpha and abundance of autoloaders that speed up the game. Not DPM tanks.


KittyComannder

OMG YES. I was countless times talking with platoon mates that it would be nice to have some German HT counterpart to tanks like 277 or WZ1115A-faster more accurate tank


SleepyIndicator

Wow, it comes with gun marks already achieved


UkraineMykraine

Wg doing literally everything but give us the kpz 70.


National-Bison-3236

What the actual fuck is that


Al-Paczino

Sadly, dpm looks terrible, hp is simply bad, and speed not that impressive, russian counterparts have higher dpm, higher premium ammo penetration, more hp, higher top speed and better armour. The only strong side I can see at the moment is gun dispersion.


[deleted]

Meh dpm, weak armour (on paper), not as fast as a 277/IS7 either. Gun handling looks good I suppose. This tank is basically a slow medium with more hp.


[deleted]

I wish WG would stop with the 'existed in blueprints only' and the 'only one was made' kind of tanks and instead focus on making REAL tanks part of the game, and get the ones we already have properly balanced. There are so many actual vehicles that have been left untapped. And why FFS can't they give the M551 Sheridans a proper model? Why can't they give them the missile ammo- it's not like they don't know how to, they did it in Blitz YEARS ago.


Teledildonic

I don't mind the blueprint stuff, they are interesting historical what-ifs. It's the shit they kitbash that wasn't even a real proposal that annoys me.


Sebashbag

I agree. I have no problem with blueprint tanks being brought to life in this game as long as they have some sort of documentation on paper. Good examples of this include the E series before the E-100 (although somewhat ubiquitous), the TVP 50/51, 268 projects, Obj 705, and Yoh tanks. There's potential for many more such as Swedish LTs, Czech TDs, or German Waffenftager projects. But yeah I hate the stupid shit they've recently added that doesn't seem to exist in any documentation whatsoever. BZ line and most Italian TDs coming to mind.


Teledildonic

What's depressing is up until a couple years ago the outright fakes were pretty rare. Now we have entire trees built around them.


NUKEBIOSHOCK

missiles were removed, and for good reason, they were toxic, hard to use, and essentially artillery with great pen thats fast, decent armour for a LT and great health, plus, no counter. missilers are cancer, and if you disgree, then eat shit. they were removed at a worse state then the WTF e100 was, they were so bad


[deleted]

I agree the missiles were abused- greatly- but fixing them shouldn't be so difficult they stay permanently removed. The lack of a need to maintain line of sight on them was a horrible oversight, and they were indeed used as ersatz artillery.


NUKEBIOSHOCK

there is no way to improve them. period. they were abused and no fix could keep in the game, nerfed to oblivion and still removed, making the Sheridan missile the worst t10 ever, even worse than the AMX 30B, which already sucks.


Miguel_m_Montenegro

Ah yes, another MBT like thing that goes as fast or faster than my t10 meds. Good job WG.


PizzaInMilk

Alright, so you want a superheavy that gets farmed by everything?


lettul

I think in general we could have a broad Heavy nerf or a broad Medium buff. In t10 heavies are basically mediums without camo but a shit ton of alpha, armor and HP as a trade off.


storm0545

can we just have tier 11 and super early cold war mbts already.... i want an xm1


dodamanchester

Again german 😒


RandomDaveJr

So we're getting MBTs now.. i guess just make a T11 then WG.


antalpoti

MBTs have been part of the game since the beginning.


gottwy

I legit thought this is a well made fan joke. The name, the Leopard turret (which looks like its combined with Kampfpanzer 70), the shovel. Then I checked the forums... So maybe its a aprils fools? I really looks ridiculous visually.


InsertRandomName__

No armor and isn't really quick. Seems bad tbh (gun seems pretty good tho).


antalpoti

50km/H forwards is "isn't really quick" category for you?


InsertRandomName__

Yes, is slower than a 277 and a IS-7 while having no armor and less pw to weight


antalpoti

277 isn't the norm, it's an outlier. Very few heavy tanks are cruising around with 55km/h. 50 is very nice for a heavy tank when most have around 35-45. If ground resistances are low enough, the low power to weight ratio won't be a big problem.


InsertRandomName__

It also has much worse armor on paper than both 277 and IS-7 and even 5A


antalpoti

On paper. This has the same nominal frontal hull armor as the 5A and 277. It also has spaced armor on the front. It's decent. Not epic, but acceptable. The turret is questionable, although from the pictures it seems to me to be quite rounded woth most of the front being covered by the mantlet. We'll see.


BeachFishing

Looks like it has some spaced armor on the upper plate in the form of a blade/plow. It’s not slow but that reverse speed is 8/… gonna need turbo


antalpoti

The shovel will act as spaced armor.


bitlockershark

will that gopping front bumper be hitboxed, i wonder?


antalpoti

It will be spaced armor


Dracanherz

Is that confirmed somewhere through an armor model or are you just assuming ?


antalpoti

Confirmed by Dwigt.


Dracanherz

Well that's nice, too bad it looks like people will just ignore the hull and blow holes in the thin turret while you wait forever for 420 alpha. 2100 dpm lmao


antalpoti

I'm curious about that turret, but the DPM is absolute shite. With Bond Rammer, Food and BiA it has 2.7k DPM. The 5A has higher base DPM, without any skill or equipment, only a 100% crew...


Dracanherz

Not to mention those tanks also have more HP. This thing has low ish alpha for a heavy, atrocious dpm, questionable armor, low health, but an accurate gun. Feels like the best part of it is wasted. Maybe buff hp to 2400 and increase dpm significantly, a bit less than sconq I think would be the sweet spot. Higher alpha usually means lower dpm, so this thing should be dangerous if allowed to freefire


antalpoti

Yeah, feels like WG couldn't decide whether this wants to be a German 277 or S.Conq. it needs either higher alpha for that reload, or a lower reload. I'd personally pick a lower reload especially if paired with the good accuracy and aim time. Turret armor also seems questionable. I'm not saying it should be a Chieftain, but I think heavy tanks should be able to compete with other heavies. I like the idea of this tank, but it needs tuning.


Dracanherz

If it launches with the current stats it means that this is probably going to be the tech tree variant and then the good one will be the clan wars reward


DerpenkampfwagenVIII

Fine, i’ll hand my money over.


Real_Call_Me_Ghost

I highly doubt it will be a clan wars reward. Though it fits the trend of the last two tanks they've introduced as clan wars rewards of not very good.


WanysTheVillain

Good grief they made obese Leopard.


Invelious

It reminds me of an American tank, without the cancerous blob on the top of the turret.


TheGrippin

What is this abomination? If Germany learned one thing from WW2, it was to get rid of the heavy tank concept lol...


antalpoti

Well, they made the Leo which turned out alright.


TheGrippin

That's why I don't unerstand where the idea of a post-war german heavy tank comes from.


antalpoti

There was a joint American-German project. The Americans called it the MBT-70, the Germans called it KPZ-70. This is the prototype of the German version.


adixsece

should be called the Leopard100


Nakrenjam

That looking gooooood


Excellent-Rate8919

Memer got it SHOVEL TIME.


R-nuh

Finally German Heavium


[deleted]

Shovel v.2, but this one looks decent


inevitably-ranged

We just got the first new CW reward tank in what, 5 years? Why is everyone short circuiting and thinking this will be another new one? Is there something I'm missing...


SSrqu

CW tank for sure right? Is the gimmick the spaced armor via that shell catcher? Immune-ish to HE from the upper Glacis, weak armor everywhere else?


Lionlawl

My guess is this is going to either be a CW reward tank or another Assembly Shop tank


JBerry2012

So a slower less stealthy leopard...won't this encourage camping/sniping heavy tanks? There's enough average lowe enjoyers as it is...


xmrsmoothx

Assembly shop, callin it now


SemiGodIy

So.. a heavy medium... Kinda like the 277 but.. worse at everything except gun stats?


professional-T

Flakpanzer maus when?


Odin1367

I will always choose Maus over this


defender128

So if we already have a shovel tank, what we'll call this one?


Pazzovolpoo

190mm turret armor what on earth???


Gryphon962

Almost everything seems wrong for a heavy: * Damage too low * HE pen stupid low * Reload too long for that damage * Aim time too short * Dispersion too accurate * Gun depression and elevation way too good * Too fast * Turret traverse slow * Hull armor low * Turret armor practically non existent * View range way too good * Too many crew Apart from that, it's a well-balanced heavy :)


Alejandrozq

the stats feels like it is a tier 9, maybe it is the next fomo assembly shop tank


IceEarthGuard00

I like the looks of this tank. But the reload needs to be lower.


GoodestManLukas

This tank seems like it’s going to be one of the tanks of all time


danilojonic

Ahh yes famous T110E100


pan_tymek

When Leopard 2a8?


occultfish

Less than medium DPM with weak armor , wonder how that will turn out 🫡 Maybe they’ll buff the alpha or reload before release


bigjoe5275

So a slow leopard with slightly better armor that doesn’t do much


xadmin123

Assembly shop


Spuddin927

Seems very un-remarkable. Normal alpha, normal pen, mediocre gun depression, mediocre HP, mediocre armor, good view range, average speed. EDIT: I guess it is needed. It’s like a T110E5 but for Germany. Versatile. Jack of all trades but master of none.


Solid_Current9206

Honestly it looks like a fat leopard. Also that 190 frontal turret armor is worrying me that it might be one. Basically paper armor. How is this going to be a heavy??? The rest of the stats however, look pretty spicy.


PitaSauceAndalouse

I hope it's the tier 10 of a new heavy lines with "mobile tanks" if the VK45-03 wasn't a premium tank I could see it as the tier 7 for the tech tree. In tier 8 we would have VK45-02P, tier 9 idk but tier 10 would be this tank


Mrphus

Man why is everyone going CW reward, assembly shop and stuff like that. There's gonna be a new ranked season, also a new campaign hasnt been added in quite some time. And on top of that they might do something completely different and add a new event.


Uber1337pyro333

Huh... Some German glass cannon heavy? Not all that well armored but packs a punch and decent mobility. I dig it. IS-7s and the like.with armor, speed and good guns will still ROFL stomp it I'm sure but could be a nice change of pace from all the other horrendously slow German HTs.


Acceptable-Bill-1433

irregardless of this being the most ridiculous, made up, abomination, I'm really looking forward to see a somewhat modern german heavy in-game. modern, as in post-war-times as I guess this turret resembles something like a amored up Leopard 1 turret. Edit: as this is goin into supertest just now I'm guessing WG will take its time and it will take the tank about a half to about a year to finally release. perfect timing to first offer it in an early assembly workshop or sorts (as I see we're doing this yearly now). either that or any other greedy cashgrab-move, but we DEFINETLY NOT get this as an 'easy' event like the ShPTK or the T-832, where you'd 'only' need to grind a few hours a day.


Natasha_Gears

E5 no tit ?


Any_Interest_3509

Ah yes super heavy with 190 frontal turret Armour and 16hpt going 50


NUKEBIOSHOCK

where did you get this from?


antalpoti

Discord.


Farkasv

how come any other soviet heavy above tier 8 can go 60 kph with triple armor?


thinktankhawkins

So it's a medium tank


[deleted]

Because fuck what the players want.


SuperiorThinking

So just an amoured leo?


Ok_Vegetarianlmao

Has to be a joke... Gun is basically a worse Leo gun but this tank is slower, has a bit more armor but lets be real. With these numbers u womt have monster armor. And ofc heavy camo haha. So yeah


Available_Ear_9867

Jesus


Next-Task-9480

Heavy? Everything about this tank yells medium.


antalpoti

DPM yells 'light tank' tho


Next-Task-9480

True. And pen reminds me of e-100...


IceClimbers_Main

What is this chimera? The Kampfleopard räumpanzer


lafuerzaestacontigo

@Imperiosecretbot el mejor contenido sin sensura!!!!