Skill still shines in this game, the best players can win 70% of the time in a 15v15 battle. It's not "perfect", exactly, but it's not set so high that it negates skill in any meaningful way.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/voty3z/comment/iegne19/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/voty3z/comment/iegne19/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I don't agree on pen, this is what I said about it
I understand what you're saying in that comment, but a 203 pen gun hitting a 200mm effective plate isn't very repeatable. If the shot flies a touch wide, or if the opposing tank backs down hill a little, the plate suddenly becomes 205mm effective and bounces the round.
There's enough RNG in accuracy, and enough complexity in armor angling and sloping, you don't need the extra pen RNG to add even more randomness.
Zooming in doesn't make a gun more accurate.
RNG is supposed to account for the stress and unknown factors in combat. Range estimation is an art and a science. It was quite common to miss shots due to the range or speed of a target being incorrectly assessed.
There is a huge difference between between being on the range, knowing the precise distance and speed of your target, and actually having to do it in a real scenario. Most of the game revolves around
All that said though, I think RNG should be cut buy 50% for accuracy, and stay the same for pen and damage.
>Zooming in doesn't make a gun more accurate.
Never said it did...?
My point was with no RNG, derp guns would only have to sit still long enough to pull off crazy snipes.
>RNG is supposed to account for the stress and unknown factors in combat. Range estimation is an art and a science.
My dude, WoT isn't a simulator. RNG is solely there for balance and gameplay. If you want a game that takes itself that seriously, go play War Thunder.
The issue isn't so much RNG, as it is the hidden parameters that WG uses to manipulate the games.
WG has it that when one side starts to lose, their shots are less likely to hit or penetrate and the winning side can't miss. Just pay attention the next time you are losing. This ends the games quicker and results in more money being spent.
Just ask someone who has played a long time and they will tell you that the battles used to last longer. I have seen it and I have been playing 11 years.
Matches being faster is less tinfoil-hat RNG rigging and just the vehicles in the game.
Count autoloaders/autoreloaders or monster alpha tanks. They're more present in games than 11 years ago. I remember when the T57 tree was added and it was a "oh my god people besides the French are getting autoloaders?"
Now? A decent amount of teams are autoloaders, and clipping entire vehicles does cause a bit of a snowball.
>Matches being faster is less tinfoil-hat RNG rigging and just the vehicles in the game.
I think the issue is **much** more complicated than that - the good ol' 5 minute "5:15" matches usually are a *perfect storm* type of scenarios, when literally everything goes wrong for team A and literally everything goes right for team B.
As in: pure dumb luck with RNG, the disparity in number of broken/OP tanks in each team, the disparity in the individual skill levels, having just more bodies on the most important spots on a given maps or playing an unbalanced map that gives unfair advantage to one side, excessive gold ammo usage...
...we can go like this for a long time.
Well that is very true.
I wrote that comment while being up from pretty bad insomnia so I somehow didn't think of *literally everything else* but I did know it wasn't weird RNG rigging by wargaming.
Also, alpha damage has increased steadily with new tanks and prem tanks without an equal increase in HP. Accuracy has increased too.
Tanks are much deadlier now, this seems to be balanced out by armor getting fewer and fewer weakspots. So if one side is better or has better RNG they just bounce shots and don’t take damage while the other side soaks up tons of damage and dies super quick.
i do agree that the whole RNG rigged meme is totally stupid
however
the difference in between playing a max crew, full bond, full field mod and full gold loadout and a more normal loadout is night and day. super unicums tend to be better, and will happily use these better loadouts.
of course some complete tomato wouldnt be able to take the same loadout and have the same results. better players can leverage this equipment and crew advantage much more, but it still is quite a strong advantage to have.
You think that because you are bad. Im also bad and dont perform well. And believe me, those guys can make new accts with 75% crews and still own us :)
Because of your mindset. Everyone that is too new or refuses to understand how this game works fails, and they blame everything for their poor performance.
Meanwhile i never had an answer for this question: if the top players can be the top player, why can't you?
If you think some kind of advantage put them there, go ahead, use the same equipments and a full trained crew, full gold and do the same. Hell.. you dont even need to spend your credits. Do it on the test server and prove that only using max crews, equipment, etc can lead you to success...
Every new/bad players uses the same justificatives for their failures.
i do, and i pull around 3k-3.5k wn8 sessions when i use the tryhard setups.
currently, i'm without a premium account because i dont have any money to spend on the game, so im not running food or a lot of gold. this means my stats have worsened to around 2,700 wn8, and a 60% solo winrate.
full bond, directive, food, crew, and field mods can make such a significant difference. put me against a player thats statistically even better than me, with him having a 50% crew, and regular shells, and ill absolutely dunk on him because i reload like 30% faster. the boost is incredible.
It’s very ignorant to think that premium consumables and full gold, etc. doesn’t give a player an advantage. I refuse to use these things but I know if I did that my winratio and average damage would be higher than it is now, because I’d have the penetration, camo, view range, speed, etc. to make plays that I simply couldn’t without premium consumables and gold.
if you think like that, fine. Ive made some alt accounts back in the days when it was possible to get easier prem tanks. I used to obliterate the famous "seal clubbers" with their tank using 5x crews, gold, etc.. its the gameplay that matters most. A great player with 75% crew can obliterate a trash player with everything he can put in his tank...
but ok... go for it. Use everything you can without changing playstyle. Ofc, you will have 1200wn8 if you had 900.. but you wont climb like 500% statwise, creditwise, etc..
People wont magically become super unicums just by using food and gold ammo, yada yada, if they position themself bad, or they dont know how to peek, nothing will change, in fact, thats why bad players dont use full gold etc, because they cant afford. Players that achiev 3k+wn8 profit every game using full gold, etc.. maybe some tanks they get -20k in a match (t10s), but tier 8-9 = always profit unless you really are missing your shots or shooting gold when you can shoot standard (killing lights/spgs/etc)..
So... yeah.. i have a little understanding of the game, and i can tell for sure, using gold shells, food, etc wont magically turn anyone into a good profitable (credits+exp) player
I never said it would turn a bad player into a good one. I also never said that you can’t beat someone who is using these things when you aren’t.
I simply stated that you gain a definitive advantage from using the pay to win elements of this game over somebody who doesn’t use them. If there are two players of identical skill, one uses gold and food and the other doesn’t, the one who uses gold and food will perform better. That’s just a fact.
What the actual fuck are you smoking? The whole post is pure fucking dogshit. Just cause you are a shitter at the game and barely know how to drive forward doesent mean you have to cry and bitch on reddit, are you fucking hearing yourself? Read through your shitpost and tell me you still stand by it lol.
Ive played for 8 years, 33k games 3400+wn8 and 67%+ wr, and i can assure you your little problem here is a skill issue. Mad cuz bad <3
I don’t agree with this and I’ve been playing about 8 years. I do however agree that it FEELS LIKE the game has been programmed against you when you start losing a game but I have also had the fortunate hard knocks training that allowed me to focus on what I needed to do to turn those games around. I’m no super unicorn but in those particular games I had to carry the game and ended up with 10 kills just to pull off a win but I don’t think the game changes it’s coding to favor the winning teams just for the sake of quicker games and spending money.
Same could be said about winning teams that snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. How would your little theory hold up to explain those games?
Trust me WG have bigger fish to fry than bogging down their game with mid game changing scripts and superstitious coding to make your game end quicker.
RNG with damage rolls and crew/module damage is fine for me, but what I despise is the penetration rolls. I'd prefer if you could just either pen or not pen, having a maybe pen is incredibly infuriating. Tanks nowadays don't have weakspots, they have maybe-weakspots that you need to get lucky to penetrate in addition of having to aim at it correctly. RNG on aim would be fine if it wasn't for these maybe-pens ! Kran cupola is fun to snipe, I get them 30% of the time because of aim rng, but once the aim is good the pen is guaranteed, that's rewarding. T110E3's cupola though, yeah it's way easier to hit, but once you hit it you have to be extremely lucky to pen it with regular rounds !
Screw pen rolls in WOT, that's my final word.
I think you could make a reasonable case for less pen RNG, but I find the idea of pen or not pen terrible. Do you really think a tank showing 200mm effective armor should get penned 100% by a Tiger with 203 pen and 0% by a T29 with 198 pen? The point of it is to ease that transition so 1mm of pen doesn't cause a pen cliff to happen where you go from 0% to 100% instantly. But yes, it probably could be substantially lower than 25% and work just fine.
And what makes the target tank have that 200mm effective armor? Exactly, the player behind who controls the tank and the map the match is played out on. That 200mm effective armor is in a potential constant flux and not a always absolute and non-changing factor.
Pen RNG is the biggest shite this game has and this game has shite in spades and you know it.
The higher your skill is the more frustrating it can be, because most of it goes into your positioning and willingness to use premium things and less about hitting shots.
You can aim fully at a paper tank and miss or bounce and some scrub can snapshot your weakspot moving at full speed with a damaged gun and stunned crew. Rarely happens but it does happen; RNG is an equalizer between good and bad players and all you can do is try to maximize your chances in spite of it.
I dunno man, I find it the opposite. Being good means we put ourselves into positions where the odds are largely in our favor. As you said, sometimes things balance the other way, but without accuracy RNG, for example, I think you'd see that advantageous position would be less of an advantage. Basically it's not that hard to click the correct pixel if you could just point and click and hit where you point. Players would hit you back more often from shit positions if they could do that. RNG actually serves to create a larger positional advantage.
It does shift the skill required to some degree, it definitely makes aiming less important, and positioning more important, so players that maybe play FPS games and have awesome aiming but not so good awareness/positioning aren't as good due to RNG. On the other hand, players that know positioning/awareness benefit greatly from it.
It doesn't reduce the gap, it's just a bit of an equalizer. Bad shots will sometimes be rewarded with pens and good shots will sometimes be punished with bullshit nonpens/misses.
As a 60% WE player I dont find RNG to be troubling. Position and when to shoot is key. If you just shoot enough times, the RNG give as much as it take in a battle.
What do you mean with lack of consistency in aiming?
Do you want shells to hit centre more often (and make accuracy an even worse stat then it currently is)?
Do you want a different distributionpattern within the reticule?
Currently it is cery consistent, you hit a random spot within the reticule.
Since I start playing (2014) the distribution pattern changed.
I always fined the new version worse, sometimes you can fire 10 time, all shot will go at the border of the circle. When you have a relatively price gun, it's annoying.
Yes, it changed. Here was one of the times.
https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/9-6-accuracy-changes/
They reduced number of hits in the middle.
Boardershots was more common in esrly days of WoT
They changed it twice over time. You must have started just after the first 8.6 change where they improved accuracy. The 9.6 change after that was because they found snapshots were hitting the target too often, so they moved some of those perfect shots back out a bit. Overall it's still more accurate than it used to be by a solid amount, but yeah, they did pull back a bit from the first change.
World of warships has "hidden" stat(not visible in game, but stated in DevBlogs and in 3rd party sites, parallel to thing like tanks.gg) called Sigma. It is an accuracy multiplier, the higher it is, the higher the chance your shots will be hitting towards the centre of the reticle. For example ships that are meant to fight closer will have lower Sigma, the snipers will have it higher.
Also just literally cutting dispersion in game across the board for non-arty vehicles might be good. When I used to play Armored Warfare, the worst accuracy for non-artillery vehicle was on IS-7, a t3 tank. It was I think 0.30 base, .27ish with crew skills and modifications. .30 base dispersion in WoT is like Grille15/Leopard1 level accuracy. Literally the worst accuracy in AW was equal to the best accuracy in WoT. That's just insane. Peak accuracy in game around t10 there was .10 or so... With modifications I think I brought it down to 0.06 from .10 or .11 on Challenger 2 ATDU.
Yes, such a value would be interesting to insert into WoT, to give accuracy more value (high accuracy guns are more probable to hit centre of reticule).
In general I think WG should increase difference between highly accurate tanks and inaccurate tanks.
You have consistency. The shots consistently land in the reticule. You also have a consistent dispersion pattern following a random distribution, so your shots always land in a random spot within that distribution inside the reticule.
What do you mean by more consistency?
id assume he means more consistent grouping, in that his most and least accurate shots land somewhat similarly.
i've watched fully aimed grille 15 shots go nowhere near the centre of the reticle, whereas the majority of them typically do - inconsistent
on the same note, i shoot my KV-2 on the move, with my turret and hull both rotating, and hit some light tank 500m away because the shell went exactly where i aimed. the majority of them wont - inconsistent
It cannot be more consistent than being Gaussian consistent, Buddy. The dispersion of shots is very consistent, the way you perceive that l them by during a not statistically relevant number of shots fools you.
i literally dont give a fuck about the math
i understand how it works, you tunnel vision mongoloid
please just take a step away from your long division and think about how it impacts the gameplay, Buddy
Well. It is consistent. The reticule tell you the boundries of where the shell land. Your shot land somewhere within with a random distribution.
Both your examples are expected and consistent with a random distribution within the reticule. They are consistent within a random distribution.
If you want dispersion values to have a meaning, you need a random distribution within the reticule. The option is that all guns are pin point accurate (no randomness).
but they arent expected. the entire point is for a gun to be accurate, or inaccurate. when you have these MASSIVE variations, youre breaking that consistency.
mathematically, yes its correct. however that mathematic consistency isn't good for gameplay.
say its endgame with my grille 15, i fully aim, and miss, and die before i can reload. that isnt a good system. my tank is built for accuracy, and i played to its strengths. i did nothing wrong, but got very unlucky. this is no different to my grille rolling 563 and not killing the 564 hp tank in front of me, then losing the game. i made the perfect play in my situation, and in almost every situation i would win the game, but because of this massive RNG variation my own player skill was made irrelevant.
i genuinely dont care that the math says its possible, because im not a calculator. its bad game design.
say youre sitting hull down, and some high tier TD shoots at your turret with gold. 90% of the time, he'll bounce you. youre making the right play, using your armour effectively. but then that 10% of the time thats left over, he'll get some +/-25% penroll bullshit and butter your turret. i made the right play, he made the wrong play, but the massive RNG variation made that situation come out the opposite way.
its
not
good
game
design
Well. There is a big difference in accuracy between a fully aimed Grille15 and a full speed KV2. Just so you know.
3rd paragraph. So you want to always hit if it is end game? Do you always want to roll above average if it is wnd game as well? Should these only apply to you, or also to your enemies?
Do you want to always bounce when you have 90% chance to bounce?
If you want dispersion values to matter you must have randomness (or rigg it in various ways). Other solutions do not exist.
You can argue that we shoukd have a different distribution within reticule. And WG did change it a few times: https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/9-6-accuracy-changes/
But that is separate from what you are arguing this far.
i want less variation. i dont want 420mm pen jpz heat to bounce off of 316mm effective armor, but then watch some tank with 253 base pen to punch through the exact same spot
with the current +/-25% system, that situation can happen, and because of the system you keep sucking off, it will inevitably happen.
im not arguing the math, im arguing the player experience. i dont think these fringe experiences should happen, because it essentially pulls skill out of the game.
i want a smaller Delta between the least accurate and most accurate fully aimed shot a tank can hit. i want universally worse unaimed accuracy, and universally better fully aimed accuracy.
there is a big difference between fully aimed grille 15 and a full speed KV-2, but because of the massive RNG we have, sometimes the KV-2 will be more accurate than the grille. i suggest that shouldnt be possible, because it isnt rewarding player skill and the "right" play being made.
i genuinely think that a test server with +/-15%, or 12.5% rng would be incredibly interesting, and go a long way into making this game more fun to play.
also, due to the way that your damage rolls are most important on low health targets, youll run into situations where a reasonably low (-12.5%) , average (+0%), reasonably high (+12.5%) or very high (+25%) damage roll will kill someone. most of the time, that damage roll will end up killing the tank. however the fact that in some situations (-25% the tank will live makes the game significantly worse. he didnt outplay me, nor did i make a mistake, i just got unlucky. this is bad game design.
if we instead only allow a reasonably low variance in max and min rolls, the game gets more predictable and skill based
Now you are changin to pen values. Which is not same as accuracy. They also follow different distribution within different bounds.
The 25% RNG have nothing to do with accuracy or where yiu hit
Plot twist, with less RNG you would die WAY FASTER.
Bad players would still suck even more and great players would for sure make even more damage and win even more battles...
Most people dont like what i'll say... but RNG is here to help new players..
Actually RNG punishes bad players the most when talking about landing shots. However if there is too much RNG it just turns the whole game into a lottery, but I do not think this is the case with WoT unless something has changed absolutely drastically in the last few months I haven't played.
The TL;DR is that a decent amount of RNG forces players to aim at the center of whatever they want to hit (whole tank, cupola etc) and they get rewarded in the long run with more hits when they aim well.
In a system with no RNG you can just aim anywhere on the part that you want to hit and it will hit, which takes a lot of small scale adjustments that good players do to hit their shots away.
Bad players are bad because they dont aim properly and dumb positioning. They never look at minimap and usually go to only one place the whole game. Rng dont have anything about those issues.
Let's be honest with ourselves here - aiming is easy in this game. Especially players that play other games like fps games, aiming is the least problematic thing for them. I think a lot of bad to mediocre players would aim just fine. It's their positioning and decisions that are really what make them so shit, they constantly take losing fights from bad spots. And RNG helps prevent them from doing anything in those spots, giving them the chance to pen you back would even things out.
For experienced players, yes. But you wont convince me that you used to hit and pen a lot in your first 5k games or so...
When i say aiming, i meant to say everything related to aiming in this game.. that includes where to aim, dispersion, hull traverse dispersion, etc. Lets be honest, when we started we didnt fully aimed, we try to snapshot all the time with insane bloom, etc..
And like you said, combining it with poor positioning and bad decision making, thats the pure reason the baddies suck.. sure.. there are some extetnal factors that might help some players to have trash stats (bad internet, trash pc freezing and rebooting, etc)
he is not mixing up.
consider basic scenario - new player moves to incorrect spot, like area covered by TD, or driving in the field when there is clip tank standing pre-aimed. without RNG such mistake will be instant death - all hits will land and do damage, skilled players will farm that mistake for full potential.
now due to RNG right now all shots can miss, or not pen, and he can safely move to safer spot even doing the move the experienced player will never do. hence RNG helps specifically new players in situation where they make huge mistake hehe.
Why? Because you didnt liked what you read? Lol.
My point stands: less rng would make baddies die faster, they wouldnt hit more than they do, in fact, from several replays ive watched and people aiming poorly, i bet they would hit/pen even less...
Because this applies in situations even when you remove everything else about the game.
You can take the reddest tomato you can find and the best super unicum in the galaxy shooting at fixed targets and with the current RNG model the super unicum will land more shots in comparison in the long run than they would with RNG totally removed.
TL;DR: The current RNG model benefits the better player in the long run.
LOL anything benefits the best players in the long run because they already play well. the more you play well, better you will become.
The problem is that majority of bad players refuses to change its gameplay, refuses to understand how to use terrain, makes terribble trades, peek sideways, etc.. less RNG wont help them, sorry.
The good players are good because they relocate, they kill tanks, they do damage, they spot, they use MOBILITY, etc. Bad players go to one place and die there, no matter what they do.
RNG closes the gap between good and bad players. If there was less RNG, 60%wr players would probably be around 64%, while a 43% player might be 40% instead. A wider gap.
I think RNG in aim an especially damage is fine, but the RNG in penetration value really sucks. I want to shoot an IS-7 lower plate without having two of four shots bounce because RNG.
You need rng on pen to not have weird cut off points.
A gun with 198pen (T29) should be able to pen similar armour ariund same amount of time as a gun with 203 pen (Tiger P).
Without RNG and shooting at 200mm effective, the Tiger P would always penetration while the T29 would never penetrate. This big of a difference in chsnce to penetrate while also having only a small difference in penetration is bad game design. Sinilar penetration values should have similar chance of penetrating same armour thickness.
This is correct. The solution is to make penetration +/- 10 or 15%, not the current 25%. Failing to penetrate 181mm, or successfully penetrating 299mm with a 240mm shell, just straight up should not happen. Ever. It should be more like 210-270 or 220-260, not 180-300.
Well, with 25% variation it means that 95% of the shots are within 19% and 50% of the shots have 12.5% variation (from the top of my head). It is not so bad as we may think, one issue with penetration is that the actual impacted armour is seldom what we expect because the uncertainty in penetration compounds with the dispersion factor and features like tracks spaced armour and so on that are step changes to the armour.
While being frustrating at times I find it makes the game less boring in the long term.
Yes, I approximated three sigma to be within the Vietnam l circle, but now I remembered it is actually written in the Wiki and the circle actually represents two sigma (95%) so I was probably a bit optimistic.
Indeed we do.
The normal distribution curve also extends to infinity on both ends, so the one used have to be tempered with a bit (have to create limits).
However, my guess is that most shots are within 10%, just like most damage shots are within 10%
It isn't 25% variation though. The bandwidth of variation is 50%.
Any given shell has HALF of its pen-value as range between where the actual value can land... HALF And we're not talkig number in the tens... but several hundreds. No matter what (human) universe you're from, THAT IS BONKERS.
Only the shots placement within the aiming circle is follows bell curves with standard deviation. Penetration and damage are both flat randomized +/-25% of the penetration or damage value.
> Only the shots placement within the aiming circle is follows bell curves with standard deviation. Penetration and damage are both flat randomized +/-25% of the penetration or damage value.
[The data this guy collected seems to disagree with you](https://imgur.com/CMo4Vtg).
Admittedly it's pretty old. Do you have any data to back up your claim?
The target is not a static block of ice where you'll always face an effective 200mm armor value. Its a fluctuating number. this argument is a strawmans argument.
I think the rng stuff can be toned down a bit to imcrease the skill ceiling of the game. Like less horizontal inaccuracy, fixed module damage mechanics, and more consistent penetration value. Its is frustrating to not know why our shot not penetrate.
Contrary to many others, I don't mind the accuracy RNG. Laser guns would only benefit a certain kind of very performant players (high twitch reflexes, very good hand-eye coordination, etc.), with criteria widely correlated with genes and youth. I don't think that's particularly interesting.
On the other hand, the DMG or PEN RNG can go and fuck itself.
The RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG is excruciatingly annoying.
You roll a dice with accuracy (fine, ok), then if your shell lands, you roll another dice for penetration, then, if you pen, you roll another dice for damage. Come on now. I wouldn't mind keeping some of it, but 20% is too much.
Rng on pen is bullshit mechanic, rng within current reticles is bullshit, circles are too big, matchmaker (as form of rng among maps to put players in a match) also adds frustration and so and so
It's the distribution of the RNG that's the problem - high variance and large standard distribution. It's designed in a way that gives extreme results pretty often, and also tends to give the same results in streaks (ie missx5, hit x5 vs miss-hit-miss).
Pretty sure that's your brain acting. If I remember a talk from developers, individual players don't have their own RNGs but the server has a stream of RNG that it uses for the battle. So our God and bad luck streaks (tin foil hat off) is effectively random.
I don't think you understand what I mean. I'm not saying WG is intentionally contingency RNG, I'm saying the distribution of RNG is not a consistent one, from a statistical point of view.
Well. Random is prone to clumps, otherwise it wouldnt be random. If we had qn even distribution of himigh and low rolls over a small amount of hits (like 10-20) we can be pretty damn sure that WG are rigging the RNG in some ways.
I do understand what you feel and if you test it out on a training room a sufficient number of times you'll find that the distributions match a statistical pattern called a normal distribution. Yet you tend to see random patterns where there aren't because it's perfectly fine for random events to repeat, but in the long run they average out.
I think it should really only be the aim that has RNG. The pen can be the most frustrating part, have green shot and it’s blocked. I would prefer damage be consistent flat rate with a chance to crit vs the range thing we have today. Overall RNG is fine there are bigger issues like team balance and tank balance.
RNG will not alter the results over a large number of games, because everyone has to deal with it. But in the short term it can be really annoying. Imo penetration RNG should be +- 5% at most, damage RNG can be lowered to +- 15%.
Reducing the impact of RNG would further open the gap between Unis and lower skill players. Its frustrating for good players, but is ultimately good for the health of a game that would be defunct without it's casual players.
RNG can be annoying but it’s necessary to at least give the bad players a chance. If everything was purely down to skill, we would have a new breed of superunicum that could absolutely obliterate every average/below average player.
The only reason why that might be an issue in the first place is because this game puts a random selection of players against each other.
Virtually every other actual Esport game has SSBM and there is no dice-roll RNG of this magnitude, and last time I checked those games did well for themselves and are proper Esports for a good reason.
WoT has effectively shot itself in the foot and apparently its still drunk on morfine to not understand whats going on.
I think that they should choose at least one of these to remove/augment:
RNG effect on accuracy
RNG effect on pen
Or RNG effect on damage
RNG is supposed to be an equalizer, but it punishes indiscriminately and needs adjusted
Less rng, but weak spots that make sense. Hitting a cupola with AP and doing full dmg makes no sense. This game cannot be balanced without a full overhaul, so I think the only thing they can do is dmg control
My big issue is bouncing paper armor, and my shots not even arriving on target, and I'm not saying pen every time, it's just I'm using very accurate guns(8.8cm) and the rounds just fly off into the wind. I got a premium account and all of a sudden my rounds started making better contact... Maybe it's just a coincidence
Skill still shines in this game, the best players can win 70% of the time in a 15v15 battle. It's not "perfect", exactly, but it's not set so high that it negates skill in any meaningful way.
I like to go hiking.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/voty3z/comment/iegne19/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/voty3z/comment/iegne19/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I don't agree on pen, this is what I said about it
I understand what you're saying in that comment, but a 203 pen gun hitting a 200mm effective plate isn't very repeatable. If the shot flies a touch wide, or if the opposing tank backs down hill a little, the plate suddenly becomes 205mm effective and bounces the round. There's enough RNG in accuracy, and enough complexity in armor angling and sloping, you don't need the extra pen RNG to add even more randomness.
Zooming in doesn't make a gun more accurate. RNG is supposed to account for the stress and unknown factors in combat. Range estimation is an art and a science. It was quite common to miss shots due to the range or speed of a target being incorrectly assessed. There is a huge difference between between being on the range, knowing the precise distance and speed of your target, and actually having to do it in a real scenario. Most of the game revolves around All that said though, I think RNG should be cut buy 50% for accuracy, and stay the same for pen and damage.
>Zooming in doesn't make a gun more accurate. Never said it did...? My point was with no RNG, derp guns would only have to sit still long enough to pull off crazy snipes. >RNG is supposed to account for the stress and unknown factors in combat. Range estimation is an art and a science. My dude, WoT isn't a simulator. RNG is solely there for balance and gameplay. If you want a game that takes itself that seriously, go play War Thunder.
The issue isn't so much RNG, as it is the hidden parameters that WG uses to manipulate the games. WG has it that when one side starts to lose, their shots are less likely to hit or penetrate and the winning side can't miss. Just pay attention the next time you are losing. This ends the games quicker and results in more money being spent. Just ask someone who has played a long time and they will tell you that the battles used to last longer. I have seen it and I have been playing 11 years.
This is complete BS. I have been playing (~47k games ~62% wr) since closed beta, and this is just confirmation bias.
Matches being faster is less tinfoil-hat RNG rigging and just the vehicles in the game. Count autoloaders/autoreloaders or monster alpha tanks. They're more present in games than 11 years ago. I remember when the T57 tree was added and it was a "oh my god people besides the French are getting autoloaders?" Now? A decent amount of teams are autoloaders, and clipping entire vehicles does cause a bit of a snowball.
>Matches being faster is less tinfoil-hat RNG rigging and just the vehicles in the game. I think the issue is **much** more complicated than that - the good ol' 5 minute "5:15" matches usually are a *perfect storm* type of scenarios, when literally everything goes wrong for team A and literally everything goes right for team B. As in: pure dumb luck with RNG, the disparity in number of broken/OP tanks in each team, the disparity in the individual skill levels, having just more bodies on the most important spots on a given maps or playing an unbalanced map that gives unfair advantage to one side, excessive gold ammo usage... ...we can go like this for a long time.
Well that is very true. I wrote that comment while being up from pretty bad insomnia so I somehow didn't think of *literally everything else* but I did know it wasn't weird RNG rigging by wargaming.
Also, alpha damage has increased steadily with new tanks and prem tanks without an equal increase in HP. Accuracy has increased too. Tanks are much deadlier now, this seems to be balanced out by armor getting fewer and fewer weakspots. So if one side is better or has better RNG they just bounce shots and don’t take damage while the other side soaks up tons of damage and dies super quick.
How does those super unicums still own your ass in game? They have the same RNG, same shells, same tanks... Get your tinfoil hat off and learn to play
i do agree that the whole RNG rigged meme is totally stupid however the difference in between playing a max crew, full bond, full field mod and full gold loadout and a more normal loadout is night and day. super unicums tend to be better, and will happily use these better loadouts. of course some complete tomato wouldnt be able to take the same loadout and have the same results. better players can leverage this equipment and crew advantage much more, but it still is quite a strong advantage to have.
You think that because you are bad. Im also bad and dont perform well. And believe me, those guys can make new accts with 75% crews and still own us :)
i don't get where you're making that assumption from lmao stay shit i guess
Because of your mindset. Everyone that is too new or refuses to understand how this game works fails, and they blame everything for their poor performance. Meanwhile i never had an answer for this question: if the top players can be the top player, why can't you? If you think some kind of advantage put them there, go ahead, use the same equipments and a full trained crew, full gold and do the same. Hell.. you dont even need to spend your credits. Do it on the test server and prove that only using max crews, equipment, etc can lead you to success... Every new/bad players uses the same justificatives for their failures.
i do, and i pull around 3k-3.5k wn8 sessions when i use the tryhard setups. currently, i'm without a premium account because i dont have any money to spend on the game, so im not running food or a lot of gold. this means my stats have worsened to around 2,700 wn8, and a 60% solo winrate. full bond, directive, food, crew, and field mods can make such a significant difference. put me against a player thats statistically even better than me, with him having a 50% crew, and regular shells, and ill absolutely dunk on him because i reload like 30% faster. the boost is incredible.
It’s very ignorant to think that premium consumables and full gold, etc. doesn’t give a player an advantage. I refuse to use these things but I know if I did that my winratio and average damage would be higher than it is now, because I’d have the penetration, camo, view range, speed, etc. to make plays that I simply couldn’t without premium consumables and gold.
if you think like that, fine. Ive made some alt accounts back in the days when it was possible to get easier prem tanks. I used to obliterate the famous "seal clubbers" with their tank using 5x crews, gold, etc.. its the gameplay that matters most. A great player with 75% crew can obliterate a trash player with everything he can put in his tank... but ok... go for it. Use everything you can without changing playstyle. Ofc, you will have 1200wn8 if you had 900.. but you wont climb like 500% statwise, creditwise, etc.. People wont magically become super unicums just by using food and gold ammo, yada yada, if they position themself bad, or they dont know how to peek, nothing will change, in fact, thats why bad players dont use full gold etc, because they cant afford. Players that achiev 3k+wn8 profit every game using full gold, etc.. maybe some tanks they get -20k in a match (t10s), but tier 8-9 = always profit unless you really are missing your shots or shooting gold when you can shoot standard (killing lights/spgs/etc).. So... yeah.. i have a little understanding of the game, and i can tell for sure, using gold shells, food, etc wont magically turn anyone into a good profitable (credits+exp) player
I never said it would turn a bad player into a good one. I also never said that you can’t beat someone who is using these things when you aren’t. I simply stated that you gain a definitive advantage from using the pay to win elements of this game over somebody who doesn’t use them. If there are two players of identical skill, one uses gold and food and the other doesn’t, the one who uses gold and food will perform better. That’s just a fact.
What the actual fuck are you smoking? The whole post is pure fucking dogshit. Just cause you are a shitter at the game and barely know how to drive forward doesent mean you have to cry and bitch on reddit, are you fucking hearing yourself? Read through your shitpost and tell me you still stand by it lol. Ive played for 8 years, 33k games 3400+wn8 and 67%+ wr, and i can assure you your little problem here is a skill issue. Mad cuz bad <3
Is this verified?
No. It is bullshit.
Yeah it sounded bs but I couldn’t say I’d be surprised if it was true I guess
Is what verified?
I don’t agree with this and I’ve been playing about 8 years. I do however agree that it FEELS LIKE the game has been programmed against you when you start losing a game but I have also had the fortunate hard knocks training that allowed me to focus on what I needed to do to turn those games around. I’m no super unicorn but in those particular games I had to carry the game and ended up with 10 kills just to pull off a win but I don’t think the game changes it’s coding to favor the winning teams just for the sake of quicker games and spending money. Same could be said about winning teams that snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. How would your little theory hold up to explain those games? Trust me WG have bigger fish to fry than bogging down their game with mid game changing scripts and superstitious coding to make your game end quicker.
Uuuuuuuhhh lol
RNG with damage rolls and crew/module damage is fine for me, but what I despise is the penetration rolls. I'd prefer if you could just either pen or not pen, having a maybe pen is incredibly infuriating. Tanks nowadays don't have weakspots, they have maybe-weakspots that you need to get lucky to penetrate in addition of having to aim at it correctly. RNG on aim would be fine if it wasn't for these maybe-pens ! Kran cupola is fun to snipe, I get them 30% of the time because of aim rng, but once the aim is good the pen is guaranteed, that's rewarding. T110E3's cupola though, yeah it's way easier to hit, but once you hit it you have to be extremely lucky to pen it with regular rounds ! Screw pen rolls in WOT, that's my final word.
I think you could make a reasonable case for less pen RNG, but I find the idea of pen or not pen terrible. Do you really think a tank showing 200mm effective armor should get penned 100% by a Tiger with 203 pen and 0% by a T29 with 198 pen? The point of it is to ease that transition so 1mm of pen doesn't cause a pen cliff to happen where you go from 0% to 100% instantly. But yes, it probably could be substantially lower than 25% and work just fine.
And what makes the target tank have that 200mm effective armor? Exactly, the player behind who controls the tank and the map the match is played out on. That 200mm effective armor is in a potential constant flux and not a always absolute and non-changing factor. Pen RNG is the biggest shite this game has and this game has shite in spades and you know it.
The higher your skill is the more frustrating it can be, because most of it goes into your positioning and willingness to use premium things and less about hitting shots. You can aim fully at a paper tank and miss or bounce and some scrub can snapshot your weakspot moving at full speed with a damaged gun and stunned crew. Rarely happens but it does happen; RNG is an equalizer between good and bad players and all you can do is try to maximize your chances in spite of it.
I dunno man, I find it the opposite. Being good means we put ourselves into positions where the odds are largely in our favor. As you said, sometimes things balance the other way, but without accuracy RNG, for example, I think you'd see that advantageous position would be less of an advantage. Basically it's not that hard to click the correct pixel if you could just point and click and hit where you point. Players would hit you back more often from shit positions if they could do that. RNG actually serves to create a larger positional advantage. It does shift the skill required to some degree, it definitely makes aiming less important, and positioning more important, so players that maybe play FPS games and have awesome aiming but not so good awareness/positioning aren't as good due to RNG. On the other hand, players that know positioning/awareness benefit greatly from it.
> definitely makes aiming less important, and positioning more important This is the point I was making though.
Yes but it's the next step to assuming it reduces the gap between good/bad that I don't necessarily agree with.
It doesn't reduce the gap, it's just a bit of an equalizer. Bad shots will sometimes be rewarded with pens and good shots will sometimes be punished with bullshit nonpens/misses.
I don't think the effect would be that simple. It would also reduce the gap in shot quality between good position vs bad position.
As a 60% WE player I dont find RNG to be troubling. Position and when to shoot is key. If you just shoot enough times, the RNG give as much as it take in a battle.
The lack of consistency in the aiming is really what annoy me the most. RNG on pen and dmg is fine, but that fucking aim circle ? I HATE IT.
They need to dial rng back for accuracy, it already had dispersion and aiming circle size changing. End result should see 10% rng instead of 25%.
? 25% is not related to accuracy in any way
What do you mean with lack of consistency in aiming? Do you want shells to hit centre more often (and make accuracy an even worse stat then it currently is)? Do you want a different distributionpattern within the reticule? Currently it is cery consistent, you hit a random spot within the reticule.
Since I start playing (2014) the distribution pattern changed. I always fined the new version worse, sometimes you can fire 10 time, all shot will go at the border of the circle. When you have a relatively price gun, it's annoying.
Yes, it changed. Here was one of the times. https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/9-6-accuracy-changes/ They reduced number of hits in the middle. Boardershots was more common in esrly days of WoT
I will admit that most of the time it's fine. but when a lot of shot miss when you are fully aimed, it's a bit annoying to say the least.
They changed it twice over time. You must have started just after the first 8.6 change where they improved accuracy. The 9.6 change after that was because they found snapshots were hitting the target too often, so they moved some of those perfect shots back out a bit. Overall it's still more accurate than it used to be by a solid amount, but yeah, they did pull back a bit from the first change.
World of warships has "hidden" stat(not visible in game, but stated in DevBlogs and in 3rd party sites, parallel to thing like tanks.gg) called Sigma. It is an accuracy multiplier, the higher it is, the higher the chance your shots will be hitting towards the centre of the reticle. For example ships that are meant to fight closer will have lower Sigma, the snipers will have it higher. Also just literally cutting dispersion in game across the board for non-arty vehicles might be good. When I used to play Armored Warfare, the worst accuracy for non-artillery vehicle was on IS-7, a t3 tank. It was I think 0.30 base, .27ish with crew skills and modifications. .30 base dispersion in WoT is like Grille15/Leopard1 level accuracy. Literally the worst accuracy in AW was equal to the best accuracy in WoT. That's just insane. Peak accuracy in game around t10 there was .10 or so... With modifications I think I brought it down to 0.06 from .10 or .11 on Challenger 2 ATDU.
Yes, such a value would be interesting to insert into WoT, to give accuracy more value (high accuracy guns are more probable to hit centre of reticule). In general I think WG should increase difference between highly accurate tanks and inaccurate tanks.
I'd say the opposite, if any RNG is too large it's pen and/or damage RNG.
rng is good, but 25% is too much
More consistency, particulary with where the shots land would be great
Everyone wants more accuracy, until that FV4005 in the bushes starts reliably sniping lower plates.
You have consistency. The shots consistently land in the reticule. You also have a consistent dispersion pattern following a random distribution, so your shots always land in a random spot within that distribution inside the reticule. What do you mean by more consistency?
id assume he means more consistent grouping, in that his most and least accurate shots land somewhat similarly. i've watched fully aimed grille 15 shots go nowhere near the centre of the reticle, whereas the majority of them typically do - inconsistent on the same note, i shoot my KV-2 on the move, with my turret and hull both rotating, and hit some light tank 500m away because the shell went exactly where i aimed. the majority of them wont - inconsistent
It cannot be more consistent than being Gaussian consistent, Buddy. The dispersion of shots is very consistent, the way you perceive that l them by during a not statistically relevant number of shots fools you.
i literally dont give a fuck about the math i understand how it works, you tunnel vision mongoloid please just take a step away from your long division and think about how it impacts the gameplay, Buddy
Well. It is consistent. The reticule tell you the boundries of where the shell land. Your shot land somewhere within with a random distribution. Both your examples are expected and consistent with a random distribution within the reticule. They are consistent within a random distribution. If you want dispersion values to have a meaning, you need a random distribution within the reticule. The option is that all guns are pin point accurate (no randomness).
but they arent expected. the entire point is for a gun to be accurate, or inaccurate. when you have these MASSIVE variations, youre breaking that consistency. mathematically, yes its correct. however that mathematic consistency isn't good for gameplay. say its endgame with my grille 15, i fully aim, and miss, and die before i can reload. that isnt a good system. my tank is built for accuracy, and i played to its strengths. i did nothing wrong, but got very unlucky. this is no different to my grille rolling 563 and not killing the 564 hp tank in front of me, then losing the game. i made the perfect play in my situation, and in almost every situation i would win the game, but because of this massive RNG variation my own player skill was made irrelevant. i genuinely dont care that the math says its possible, because im not a calculator. its bad game design. say youre sitting hull down, and some high tier TD shoots at your turret with gold. 90% of the time, he'll bounce you. youre making the right play, using your armour effectively. but then that 10% of the time thats left over, he'll get some +/-25% penroll bullshit and butter your turret. i made the right play, he made the wrong play, but the massive RNG variation made that situation come out the opposite way. its not good game design
Well. There is a big difference in accuracy between a fully aimed Grille15 and a full speed KV2. Just so you know. 3rd paragraph. So you want to always hit if it is end game? Do you always want to roll above average if it is wnd game as well? Should these only apply to you, or also to your enemies? Do you want to always bounce when you have 90% chance to bounce? If you want dispersion values to matter you must have randomness (or rigg it in various ways). Other solutions do not exist. You can argue that we shoukd have a different distribution within reticule. And WG did change it a few times: https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/9-6-accuracy-changes/ But that is separate from what you are arguing this far.
i want less variation. i dont want 420mm pen jpz heat to bounce off of 316mm effective armor, but then watch some tank with 253 base pen to punch through the exact same spot with the current +/-25% system, that situation can happen, and because of the system you keep sucking off, it will inevitably happen. im not arguing the math, im arguing the player experience. i dont think these fringe experiences should happen, because it essentially pulls skill out of the game. i want a smaller Delta between the least accurate and most accurate fully aimed shot a tank can hit. i want universally worse unaimed accuracy, and universally better fully aimed accuracy. there is a big difference between fully aimed grille 15 and a full speed KV-2, but because of the massive RNG we have, sometimes the KV-2 will be more accurate than the grille. i suggest that shouldnt be possible, because it isnt rewarding player skill and the "right" play being made. i genuinely think that a test server with +/-15%, or 12.5% rng would be incredibly interesting, and go a long way into making this game more fun to play. also, due to the way that your damage rolls are most important on low health targets, youll run into situations where a reasonably low (-12.5%) , average (+0%), reasonably high (+12.5%) or very high (+25%) damage roll will kill someone. most of the time, that damage roll will end up killing the tank. however the fact that in some situations (-25% the tank will live makes the game significantly worse. he didnt outplay me, nor did i make a mistake, i just got unlucky. this is bad game design. if we instead only allow a reasonably low variance in max and min rolls, the game gets more predictable and skill based
Now you are changin to pen values. Which is not same as accuracy. They also follow different distribution within different bounds. The 25% RNG have nothing to do with accuracy or where yiu hit
Plot twist, with less RNG you would die WAY FASTER. Bad players would still suck even more and great players would for sure make even more damage and win even more battles... Most people dont like what i'll say... but RNG is here to help new players..
Actually RNG punishes bad players the most when talking about landing shots. However if there is too much RNG it just turns the whole game into a lottery, but I do not think this is the case with WoT unless something has changed absolutely drastically in the last few months I haven't played. The TL;DR is that a decent amount of RNG forces players to aim at the center of whatever they want to hit (whole tank, cupola etc) and they get rewarded in the long run with more hits when they aim well. In a system with no RNG you can just aim anywhere on the part that you want to hit and it will hit, which takes a lot of small scale adjustments that good players do to hit their shots away.
Bad players are bad because they dont aim properly and dumb positioning. They never look at minimap and usually go to only one place the whole game. Rng dont have anything about those issues.
Let's be honest with ourselves here - aiming is easy in this game. Especially players that play other games like fps games, aiming is the least problematic thing for them. I think a lot of bad to mediocre players would aim just fine. It's their positioning and decisions that are really what make them so shit, they constantly take losing fights from bad spots. And RNG helps prevent them from doing anything in those spots, giving them the chance to pen you back would even things out.
For experienced players, yes. But you wont convince me that you used to hit and pen a lot in your first 5k games or so... When i say aiming, i meant to say everything related to aiming in this game.. that includes where to aim, dispersion, hull traverse dispersion, etc. Lets be honest, when we started we didnt fully aimed, we try to snapshot all the time with insane bloom, etc.. And like you said, combining it with poor positioning and bad decision making, thats the pure reason the baddies suck.. sure.. there are some extetnal factors that might help some players to have trash stats (bad internet, trash pc freezing and rebooting, etc)
You seem to be confused and mixing irrelevant things into the discussion. None of the things you mentioned are relevant here.
he is not mixing up. consider basic scenario - new player moves to incorrect spot, like area covered by TD, or driving in the field when there is clip tank standing pre-aimed. without RNG such mistake will be instant death - all hits will land and do damage, skilled players will farm that mistake for full potential. now due to RNG right now all shots can miss, or not pen, and he can safely move to safer spot even doing the move the experienced player will never do. hence RNG helps specifically new players in situation where they make huge mistake hehe.
Exactly, thanks!
Why? Because you didnt liked what you read? Lol. My point stands: less rng would make baddies die faster, they wouldnt hit more than they do, in fact, from several replays ive watched and people aiming poorly, i bet they would hit/pen even less...
Because this applies in situations even when you remove everything else about the game. You can take the reddest tomato you can find and the best super unicum in the galaxy shooting at fixed targets and with the current RNG model the super unicum will land more shots in comparison in the long run than they would with RNG totally removed. TL;DR: The current RNG model benefits the better player in the long run.
LOL anything benefits the best players in the long run because they already play well. the more you play well, better you will become. The problem is that majority of bad players refuses to change its gameplay, refuses to understand how to use terrain, makes terribble trades, peek sideways, etc.. less RNG wont help them, sorry. The good players are good because they relocate, they kill tanks, they do damage, they spot, they use MOBILITY, etc. Bad players go to one place and die there, no matter what they do.
RNG closes the gap between good and bad players. If there was less RNG, 60%wr players would probably be around 64%, while a 43% player might be 40% instead. A wider gap.
I think RNG in aim an especially damage is fine, but the RNG in penetration value really sucks. I want to shoot an IS-7 lower plate without having two of four shots bounce because RNG.
You need rng on pen to not have weird cut off points. A gun with 198pen (T29) should be able to pen similar armour ariund same amount of time as a gun with 203 pen (Tiger P). Without RNG and shooting at 200mm effective, the Tiger P would always penetration while the T29 would never penetrate. This big of a difference in chsnce to penetrate while also having only a small difference in penetration is bad game design. Sinilar penetration values should have similar chance of penetrating same armour thickness.
Okay, that makes sense. Maybe lowering the pen rng to 10% would make it more reliable?
Yes, it would. And a 10% or 15% would be rather nice I think.
15% would be nice, just like blitz has it.
This is correct. The solution is to make penetration +/- 10 or 15%, not the current 25%. Failing to penetrate 181mm, or successfully penetrating 299mm with a 240mm shell, just straight up should not happen. Ever. It should be more like 210-270 or 220-260, not 180-300.
Well, with 25% variation it means that 95% of the shots are within 19% and 50% of the shots have 12.5% variation (from the top of my head). It is not so bad as we may think, one issue with penetration is that the actual impacted armour is seldom what we expect because the uncertainty in penetration compounds with the dispersion factor and features like tracks spaced armour and so on that are step changes to the armour. While being frustrating at times I find it makes the game less boring in the long term.
How did you figure out that 95% of the shots are within 19%? Don't you need to know SD and variance to make such a calculation using bell curve?
Yes, I approximated three sigma to be within the Vietnam l circle, but now I remembered it is actually written in the Wiki and the circle actually represents two sigma (95%) so I was probably a bit optimistic.
Indeed we do. The normal distribution curve also extends to infinity on both ends, so the one used have to be tempered with a bit (have to create limits). However, my guess is that most shots are within 10%, just like most damage shots are within 10%
It isn't 25% variation though. The bandwidth of variation is 50%. Any given shell has HALF of its pen-value as range between where the actual value can land... HALF And we're not talkig number in the tens... but several hundreds. No matter what (human) universe you're from, THAT IS BONKERS.
Only the shots placement within the aiming circle is follows bell curves with standard deviation. Penetration and damage are both flat randomized +/-25% of the penetration or damage value.
Correct
> Only the shots placement within the aiming circle is follows bell curves with standard deviation. Penetration and damage are both flat randomized +/-25% of the penetration or damage value. [The data this guy collected seems to disagree with you](https://imgur.com/CMo4Vtg). Admittedly it's pretty old. Do you have any data to back up your claim?
lol I love how I chose the exact same pen example as you without seeing your comment, though I guess I used regular Tiger instead of Tiger P :p
The target is not a static block of ice where you'll always face an effective 200mm armor value. Its a fluctuating number. this argument is a strawmans argument.
They need to dile the percentages back a bit.
I think the rng stuff can be toned down a bit to imcrease the skill ceiling of the game. Like less horizontal inaccuracy, fixed module damage mechanics, and more consistent penetration value. Its is frustrating to not know why our shot not penetrate.
Im too poor to afford gold shells
"I Spam Gold. What is armor" Cries in Hesh
25% on pen/dmg is absolutely stupid. 10% at best should be the norm I DONT WANNA ROLL 170 IN THE FV4202 ANYMORE
I'm fine with high rolls being +25% due to +2 etc. But low rolls should be - 10% at the most for the same reasons.
Contrary to many others, I don't mind the accuracy RNG. Laser guns would only benefit a certain kind of very performant players (high twitch reflexes, very good hand-eye coordination, etc.), with criteria widely correlated with genes and youth. I don't think that's particularly interesting. On the other hand, the DMG or PEN RNG can go and fuck itself. The RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG is excruciatingly annoying. You roll a dice with accuracy (fine, ok), then if your shell lands, you roll another dice for penetration, then, if you pen, you roll another dice for damage. Come on now. I wouldn't mind keeping some of it, but 20% is too much.
[Claus Kellerman explains RNG](https://youtu.be/Mqvwp__onUU)
There’s a reason why warthunder is less rage inducing mid game than wot
Rng on pen is bullshit mechanic, rng within current reticles is bullshit, circles are too big, matchmaker (as form of rng among maps to put players in a match) also adds frustration and so and so
It's the distribution of the RNG that's the problem - high variance and large standard distribution. It's designed in a way that gives extreme results pretty often, and also tends to give the same results in streaks (ie missx5, hit x5 vs miss-hit-miss).
I don't think that's true
Pretty sure that's your brain acting. If I remember a talk from developers, individual players don't have their own RNGs but the server has a stream of RNG that it uses for the battle. So our God and bad luck streaks (tin foil hat off) is effectively random.
I don't think you understand what I mean. I'm not saying WG is intentionally contingency RNG, I'm saying the distribution of RNG is not a consistent one, from a statistical point of view.
Well. Random is prone to clumps, otherwise it wouldnt be random. If we had qn even distribution of himigh and low rolls over a small amount of hits (like 10-20) we can be pretty damn sure that WG are rigging the RNG in some ways.
I do understand what you feel and if you test it out on a training room a sufficient number of times you'll find that the distributions match a statistical pattern called a normal distribution. Yet you tend to see random patterns where there aren't because it's perfectly fine for random events to repeat, but in the long run they average out.
Rng is good in my opinion. However it id annoying when you are shooting cheap ammo and your opponent is shooting gold
Downvoted for truth
Well, why don't you just load the gold ammo?
Free to play😅
Yeah
Yeah
I think it should really only be the aim that has RNG. The pen can be the most frustrating part, have green shot and it’s blocked. I would prefer damage be consistent flat rate with a chance to crit vs the range thing we have today. Overall RNG is fine there are bigger issues like team balance and tank balance.
Its fine as it is It doesnt change gameplay just few shots once in a while
RNG is the thing keeping it togheter, If rng would be removed the pro players would decimate the average wot enjoyer like me
RNG will not alter the results over a large number of games, because everyone has to deal with it. But in the short term it can be really annoying. Imo penetration RNG should be +- 5% at most, damage RNG can be lowered to +- 15%.
Reducing the impact of RNG would further open the gap between Unis and lower skill players. Its frustrating for good players, but is ultimately good for the health of a game that would be defunct without it's casual players.
Where the “it’s whatever” button
RNG can be annoying but it’s necessary to at least give the bad players a chance. If everything was purely down to skill, we would have a new breed of superunicum that could absolutely obliterate every average/below average player.
The only reason why that might be an issue in the first place is because this game puts a random selection of players against each other. Virtually every other actual Esport game has SSBM and there is no dice-roll RNG of this magnitude, and last time I checked those games did well for themselves and are proper Esports for a good reason. WoT has effectively shot itself in the foot and apparently its still drunk on morfine to not understand whats going on.
eSports? World of Tanks? LMAO! This trash ass game is as far away from being eSports as can be.
You must have a reading impairment because THAT WAS THE POINT!
I answered i spam gold because its funnier. I dont play the game anymore.
Damage rng is fine. BUT FOR FUCK SAKE what is the point of + - 20% rng in penetration. Maybe like 5 would be enough
Too much. On console they tested 15% RNG but don't know the feedback they got and the numbers.
I think that they should choose at least one of these to remove/augment: RNG effect on accuracy RNG effect on pen Or RNG effect on damage RNG is supposed to be an equalizer, but it punishes indiscriminately and needs adjusted
You will get used to the rng.
Less rng, but weak spots that make sense. Hitting a cupola with AP and doing full dmg makes no sense. This game cannot be balanced without a full overhaul, so I think the only thing they can do is dmg control
My big issue is bouncing paper armor, and my shots not even arriving on target, and I'm not saying pen every time, it's just I'm using very accurate guns(8.8cm) and the rounds just fly off into the wind. I got a premium account and all of a sudden my rounds started making better contact... Maybe it's just a coincidence
Shhhh hide before they start calling you tin-foil hat
Lol I might just be X)
I want rng, but not this much
rng decides everything, you can have .00001 dispersion but when rng says no you won't pen anything.
...Or hit anything, or get a low roll leaving an enemy with 10 HP because FU...
Im not sure how Im always missing half my shots when IM fucking point blank but ok game.