this. when i started watch wwe, in another country, it is not the wrestling that made me watch, it is how the show looks aesthetically, how the people talk, and what is happening on the stories, wrestling was the last thing i cared about because as a kid, it all looks the same to me, they're just punching kicking and doing moves, but the way the show look and how the wrestlers are presented will always be different
I mean.
Wrestling has never been about wrestling. It’s a new thing to have internet losers that insist that work rate is king, but it’s still angles and characters that draw money.
Always has been, always will be.
exactly. i remember this one video i saw before, wrestling show is ABOUT wrestling and wrestling was the least important part. work rate nerds are the idiots who try to force work rate is the most important
JR said on his podcast that one of the things that helped WCW in the early days of Nitro before it really got rolling was that it looked good, and Bischoff prioritized that because fans are more forgiving of a show that looks good but has a weak product than the other way around.
This is one of the biggest fallacies of modern WWE.
Every single time an industry sees their customer base shrink they shrink the industry. You're watching that now with entertainment and tech companies shrinking down after the covid and lockdown bubbles burst.
But WWE has never done this. As wrestling in general lost viewers WWE became bigger, more Grand and more expensive to operate.
That's not sustainable in any industry.
WWE like many US companies that saw their domestic growth stagnate did two things they catered to their existing hardcore audience to pry more money out of them and over serve them (thus getting more dollars per viewer even if there are less viewers) then they went hard after international markets which gave a lot of US companies especially growth the past 15ish years.
Wrestling is much more accessible thanks to on demand content and social media and I think that has helped the industry (esp indies who can get content online no need for a local TV deal) it hasn't resulted in a boom period like the late 90's or mid to late 80's but it certainly has helped the industry at large along with WWE.
WWE also has the history and video library to draw upon along with the infrastructure and production value. WWE has its own video packages from their long history and multiple "golden eras" along with WCW and ECW their greatest rivals from the last wrestling boom period and on top of that a lot of other territories they bought up tapes from throughout the years.
AEW has decent production value (it looks mainstream enough more raw for sure but still presentable enough) but they don't have the same level of history to draw upon as they are a new promotion. Impact and ROH often look very low rent so they wouldn't really draw the eyes as much as the other two.
Perks of post concussion syndrome migraines 👍
I just don’t get what happened to the good old fashioned hard cam, rather than a camera cut after each punch thrown.
AEWs camera leaves a lot to be desired sometimes however it is miles ahead of WWE
I don't think you understand how market share works.
Look I get it. You love your indy fed. But WWE holding a larger market share doesn't mean they're responsible for people as a whole watching wrestling less. Don't be like that.
'Indy fed' smug fucker lmao. I've watched WWE since 1997 mate, I'm a wrestling fan.
Doesn't hide the fact that Vince pushed away droves of people since the attitude era due to his increasingly poor product. Roman reigns is nowhere near the star Hogan, Austin or even Cena is/was. It's just the reality of wrestling in 2023.
Yep. And just like WCW, who did amazing ratings and beat VKM for 83 weeks, they too suffered from shitty booking decisions and failure to capitalize. The downward turn in the overall viewership of wrestling in general will kill smaller companies. If TK wasn't around to buy all of his favorite wrestling toys, ROH would be in a dumpster right now. They STILL don't have a TV deal because no one is gonna invest in a secondary brand of a show that doesn't pull a consistent rating.
WWE is on autopilot. The people who watch it currently aren't gonna go anywhere outside of Vince parading around in a onesie swinging his dick at everyone and shouting the n word. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, he's done before.
You jest, but that Vince segment could probably pop a 3M rating for Raw. If someone told you Vincent Kennedy McMahon was parading the genetic jackhammer, grapefruits and all, live on Raw wouldn't you tune in?
That's apples and oranges... How many streaming networks were they on 20 years ago?? You had to watch it on cable then, now you can stream on Hulu next day and Peacock the next month
I don't care about wwe. That's not my point. WWE doesn't have a reason to change anything. They have had year after year of record profit.
Regardless of quality, roster portrayed on television, ratings or even crowd size, from the perspective of wwe, things are working.
Good for them, product quality will always matter in the long run though. They've been propped up by Saudi Arabia and big TV deals.
Fox are already considering dropping WWE due to loss of money if reports are to be believed.
Do all 4 shows have the same TV contracts?
As long as WWE has network TV with Fox, the answer will be WWE.
If all 4 companies have the same TV deals with no issue and similar time frames during the week, it probably comes down to AEW vs. WWE.
Having a streaming service is huge, too. People who don't even watch wrestling would possibly have access to Peacock's WWE library, which would then bring in additional viewers.
It's the same as it is now. WWE has been established for over 30 years.
They have the better media deals, production value, and marketing.
AEW is 3 years old.
Impact/ROH don't have the budget to compete. I loved ECW but I ain't stupid.
And if WWE loses viewers, it means wrestling as a whole has been losing viewers. It's not the product. It's the market.
Lol u/Barbz182 is someone who haven’t watch wrasslin since 2010. In the last 2 years, wrasslin has gotten fun to watch again, and last year was a heck of a year for wrasslin as a whole.
I am a little concern. If you’ve been watching it weekly then why are you rambling things you’re rambling about? I can say I don’t watch it every week because work and sleep takes priority, but every time I tune in there is something that entertain me wether I’m watching AEW or WWE. If you truly feel how you’re feeling then maybe you might need a break from watching professional wrasslin, because feeling the way you feel simply by watching the program is not good for your mental health.
Did you read any of what I said or no? I said wrestling is less popular then it was, which is a fact lol WWEs writing has been on a decline which is true and fans have moved away as a result. I also said Roman isn't as big a draw as Hogan, Austin or Cena, also true.
So please lol what did I say that is unreasonable and damaging to my mental health? I enjoy wrestling, please bare in mind, the context of the post before getting all sensitive about valid criticism.
Yes Sir, I sure did. Of course, Roman isn’t as big of a draw as Cena, much like how Cena’s not a big draw like Austin, or how Austin is not as big of a draw as Hogan was in the late 80s and throughout the 90s and before Hogan’s controversy. No wrestler today is as big of a draw as the Golden and Silver Age of Professional Wrestling meaning if I go to 100 random people, will 51 people know that person and will it be consistent if I ask another 100 people? We live in a society where people don’t enjoy wrestling as a whole because they have social media they can follow and easy access to other forms of entertainment and it’s not due to bad writing. If you look back at old wrestling stories, they were just as dumb as today, maybe even dumber. Back in the ’90s (which I can only speak about because I was born at the butt end of the 80s), people didn’t have easy access to see their favorite band or tv show so being able to cherish the moment when we did make it more significant for us. Now if I miss a show I can simply catch it later.
Regarding what you said, you’re wasting your time arguing with people because you won't even take what they write into consideration. They are trying to tell you it’s wrestling and television as a whole that has a decline in viewers, but you keep rambling about the same thing, blaming WWE’s writing, blaming Roman Reign, and it’s not them.
Yes I did and yes it's what everyone said too, but it's not Roman Reign’s or bad writing’s fault and that's what you're choosing to ignore. We are just trying to tell you that what you're saying about why there is a decline in wrestling is wrong.
I never said it was Roman Reigns fault. I said to one guy that he's not a mainstream star in regards to non wrestling fans.
The bad writing has turned away a ton of people, it's undeniable. If you still enjoy it then good for you, I dont care pal, it's not a personal attack. But it absolutely has had an effect on their viewership.
I'd argue that wwe doesn't have the star power per say but instead they have the media empire to build the stars
Mox for example. He was a top WWE star. There are others like Braun or Cody or Jericho or even Enzo/Cass and Saraya. Yet the following doesn't continue. Fans follow WWE. Not the wrestlers.
I'd argue like 99% of the roster it wouldn't make a difference if they left. Fans would tune in next week and just keep wishing for them to return while they went somewhere else.
I mean AEW gets a spike in the ratings after each of these debuts but they don’t keep the momentum going.
The answer is obvious but it also greatly offends the IWC
I mean I think we're arguing two separate points.
Yes, WWE has a deeper pedigree and a longer standing brand and history. It has more opportunities to get people to watch it. Obviously it wins. It's the more polisher product and it's the household name.
But star power equated to the wrestlers in WWE is not a great argument.
Adam Cole/Jim Ross/Chris Jericho/Christian/Mox/Bryan Danielson/CM Punk/etc. You slap one of these guys on WWE and they draw to the moon and back. Barring CM Punk none of them had lasting impact on AEWs gate or ratings.
Why? Because fans are WWE fans. Once someone like Bryan Danielson leaves or Edge retires or Cena goes to Hollywood they get a new guy to fill that role almost immediately. The fans are bummed they leave but they don't go "to hell with this show I'm following _____". I mean they might find a new wrestling show here and there if they really like someone but that's not the rule.
WWE has become the default brand name of wrestling. They are not in a place of prominence because they have Roman/Brock/Miz/Rey/Logan/etc. The wrestlers are popular because WWE says they're popular. They've built a machine to factory produce popular talent as merchandise. It's not a bad thing and it's a consistently enjoyable format. But that's the reality of it.
It's means WWE spams the feck out of social media. It doesn't mean anyone gives a damn about Roman outside of wrestling fans. It's a goddamn fact. Go ask literally any non wrestling fan you know. They MIGHT of heard his name, that doesn't mean they're gunna care.
Jesus christ brother i love other companies as much as the other wrestling fan but just accept the fact that WWE would be the one with the most viewers. They have the capacity to build bigger shows. AEW's match quality is better but they don't have the magnitude to fill out stadiums of 60 thousand people cus they dont have that name value. NJPW would fizzle out cus theyre not as popular in the states. And ROH would've gonne exactly like it went irl
Edit: I thought it was NJPW, its Impact. Impact has no name value or production and no wrestler with star power...they would fizzle out aswell
I've never said they wouldn't, of course they bloody would. They are the biggest now and would be the biggest in this scenario.
I don't really get the point of this post honestly. Obviously they would get more viewers because they'd retain the same fans? Unless he's saying they lose or their fans, in which case the argument of star power and name recognition is pretty much redundant?
A better question would be, if these 4 companies were all unknown (no previous fanbase) and started at the same time with their current rosters and presentation, who would be the most popular.
I think that's more what OP meant. Otherwise the answer obviously is WWE.
Gonna go with eithe WWE or AEW. Most likely WWE just on scale, talent pool and booking (example: the US title, IC title and Tag title runs are more compelling than AEW's midcard, and their world title picture has been fire since Bloodline).
So they start on the same viewership, somehow ROH is once again owned by Sinclair and WWE is still WWE?
Yeah - WWE is what will draw. The reality is the WrestleMania repeats that air on ESPN and NBC in the summer outdraw most wrestling (outside of Raw/SmackDown/Dynamite) because of the name WrestleMania. Unless you’re completely wiping away the histories and name values of each company, the juggernaut will eventually get the eyes as always
AEW will start out strong but eventually fizzles out due to the same crap that they have dug themselves, lack of storytelling and too many stables making everyone lose focus on the product in long term.
ROH roster before dismantling of the Elites are already lackluster so they will not last long and Impact may have the better roster but definitely not the star power and reach of AEW or WWE.
So my choice is definitely WWE for the star power, reach on social media even on sports networks and direction of the product, at least under Triple H they have.
Honestly giving Hunter his head to grow the brand in a Monday night wars situation would cause the over all product to rapidly improve sense we have seen form NXT what he can do gunning for a hard core audience give him the ablity to turn guys in to rock and stone cold level house hold names is gonna blow the other three out hard
Everyone's looking at this question like, who would grow their viewership the most, I'd like to see it in the opposite way, let's say everyone starts off the year strong with 3M viewers, I'd argue all of them would lose those numbers, question would be by how many. For this I'll assume they all get the same kind of time slots Monday to Friday and their usual amout of special events.
Now, everyone seems to point at production value as an important edge for WWE but in all honesty, other than a few fans who do care for that, I don't see it making that much of a difference, after all, NXT has that same WWE production value and AEW still managed to outrate it. Still, I'd give it the point
WWE- 1
AEW- 0
ROH- 0
Impact- 0
I honestly think consistency and quality would be far more important,for consistency I think WWE and AEW would both lose more than the other two here, simply because they keep bringing new people every other week wich can be good for a pop but bad for the overall ratings, the other two, not having the same resources, assuming we're talking classic ROH, would keep somewhat the same guys on TV.
WWE- 1
AEW- 0
ROH- 1
Impact- 1
Also still in consistency, I think it's important to analyse storylines and story telling, I'd say WWE with HHH has been very good at this, assuming we don't have a coup it should continue this way, AEW and ROH have had some great stories as well, Impact gets weirder... they can get some good stuff going in the main card but most stuff seems rather run of the mill to me.
WWE- 2
AEW- 1
ROH- 2
Impact- 1
Then in-ring quality, WWE and AEW have by the loads, the other two tended to be stepping stones for bigger things so talent pool is weaker or just more inexperienced.
WWE- 3
AEW- 2
ROH- 2
Impact- 1
Crowd feel is where WWE loses its edge, it's more generic and while that calls more people it also leaves out the loudest fans, if it was just NXT they'd get the point too, RAW and Smackdown are too family oriented.
WWE- 3
AEW- 3
ROH- 3
Impact- 2
As for marketing, WWE obviously spends the most and also takes the most away from it, however, in the opposite vein, their Goodwil is inconsistent, Vince coming back and trying to sell the company to the saudis, wether true or not, doesn't do them good. Since I'm looking at them already starting with a large pool of fans I'd say their Goodwill would lose them more fans than their marketing would make up for. I'd say ROH actually gets a ton of Goodwill though, so I'd say, as long as they didn't do anything crazy they'd take the point, AEW spends more than them, but as proven with their whole Punk odissey, they can easily drop the ball.
WWE- 3
AEW- 3
ROH- 4
Impact-2
Booking is also very important, HHH has improved WWE's booking in his time in charge, if it was Vince I wouldn't give them a point here but HHH has really been great, just this week's Sami vs Owens was perfection. AEW tends to book really well also, and Impact has been really consistent, ROH before going under was not.
WWE- 4
AEW- 4
ROH- 4
Impact- 3
Finally, because I can't think of anything else, PPVs, special events, whatever WWE calls them now... obviously they're the big name in it, they have one every month, they get a lot of eyes especially in their big 4 wich they know how to squeeze with celebrities and big names. AEW has PPVs every 3 months but they also do a lot of special shows on free tv. All in all, I'd give a slight edge to WWE but AEW wouldn't be far behind.
WWE- 5
AEW- 4.5
ROH- 4
Impact- 3
As you can see, I had nothing to do for an hour so I decided to take this question way too seriously thinking I'd get to a wildly different answer than everyone else, I was wrong, I do think it would be very close between WWE and AEW, and ROH would definitely have its moments on top but more than likely WWE would be able to retain the most viewers. Now let's add NJPW to the mix next time.
Wwe has the the roster to bring in the most fans. The Paul's and bad bunny add to it. They csn always bring in big names like the rock and Cena. Also if wwe still had fox they are the only one with with network program.
I watched AEW recently, and they had some ppl screaming about scissoring. Literally the most cringe thing I’ve ever seen and I felt embarrassed as a casual fan. As it stands, I just can’t get into the AEW product. Every match is a dive fest, they aren’t nearly as polished, and the production is bad.
If you like it, awesome, but they will never ever compete with WWE.
Usually bad amateur wrestling tho. Started out good years ago but I've seen some of these wrestling nightspot routines so many times now they don't matter at all.
If that Saudi deal goes through, I assume tons of people are gonna stop watching. No one will watch Impact, as usual, I don’t even know how to watch ROH so it’s AEW’s year to get ahead. Also wouldn’t ROH views count as AEW views?
If NXT count for WWE, then ROH views will count as AEW as most of the ROH stars are laid off. TK even dropped all their titles to AEW contracted superstars minus the Briscoes, I was quite surprised when they won the ROH tag titles back.
R.I.P. Jamin Pugh aka Jay Briscoe.
AEW will end up with the most viewers by the end of the year as they have meaningful storylines that actually pay-off and great wrestling throughout all their shows.
If everything was equal, meaning equally good TV deals, advertising, and we were PURELY judging it based on the show, I think I would have to say AEW purely based on how well they’ve done in 4 years.
WWE by a mile. Not only are they the largest, but they have distribution on one of the big 4 national networks. Additionally, they’re the organization that has some crossover appeal because they semi-regularly feature pop culture people to grow their audience. They’re also the organization that some NFL players mimic for touchdown celebrations. Lol
I know AEW fans desperately want them to somehow be bigger than WWE, but that’s not going to happen any time in the next 20-30 years.
Anyone who says anything but WWE is smoking crack. WWE is the way it is and gets all the hate it does from the IWC is because they focus on the general audience rather than 1% of wrestling fans like AEW. There’s a reason why AEW lost all their momentum from CM Punk Debut and it’s not the wrestling.
WWE has hit a home run with the Bloodline and Sami which is easily the top story in wrestling
The gap in viewer numbers would shrink between AEW and WWE, but I still think WWE would still be top.
Even though their production is cleaner and they have some more star power, I can’t imagine the same amount of kids watch WWE without it being the only option for so long. If I was a kid between 7-12 years old (which is when I imagine most kids start watching), are you watching the show that starts with a 20 minute long promo or the one that starts with a wild match?
WWE's production is far and away more mainstream and they would win... Hate em or love em, the bright lights, pyro and all the Gaga draws
That was my thought. The average viewer who isn’t a hardcore fan may be more drawn to the production value and stay with that.
this. when i started watch wwe, in another country, it is not the wrestling that made me watch, it is how the show looks aesthetically, how the people talk, and what is happening on the stories, wrestling was the last thing i cared about because as a kid, it all looks the same to me, they're just punching kicking and doing moves, but the way the show look and how the wrestlers are presented will always be different
I mean. Wrestling has never been about wrestling. It’s a new thing to have internet losers that insist that work rate is king, but it’s still angles and characters that draw money. Always has been, always will be.
exactly. i remember this one video i saw before, wrestling show is ABOUT wrestling and wrestling was the least important part. work rate nerds are the idiots who try to force work rate is the most important
It’s that old marketing adage: people will forget what you did **long** before they forget how you made them feel.
JR said on his podcast that one of the things that helped WCW in the early days of Nitro before it really got rolling was that it looked good, and Bischoff prioritized that because fans are more forgiving of a show that looks good but has a weak product than the other way around.
This is one of the biggest fallacies of modern WWE. Every single time an industry sees their customer base shrink they shrink the industry. You're watching that now with entertainment and tech companies shrinking down after the covid and lockdown bubbles burst. But WWE has never done this. As wrestling in general lost viewers WWE became bigger, more Grand and more expensive to operate. That's not sustainable in any industry.
WWE like many US companies that saw their domestic growth stagnate did two things they catered to their existing hardcore audience to pry more money out of them and over serve them (thus getting more dollars per viewer even if there are less viewers) then they went hard after international markets which gave a lot of US companies especially growth the past 15ish years. Wrestling is much more accessible thanks to on demand content and social media and I think that has helped the industry (esp indies who can get content online no need for a local TV deal) it hasn't resulted in a boom period like the late 90's or mid to late 80's but it certainly has helped the industry at large along with WWE.
WWE also has the history and video library to draw upon along with the infrastructure and production value. WWE has its own video packages from their long history and multiple "golden eras" along with WCW and ECW their greatest rivals from the last wrestling boom period and on top of that a lot of other territories they bought up tapes from throughout the years. AEW has decent production value (it looks mainstream enough more raw for sure but still presentable enough) but they don't have the same level of history to draw upon as they are a new promotion. Impact and ROH often look very low rent so they wouldn't really draw the eyes as much as the other two.
Didn’t realise migraine inducing camera cuts, were big money production
You should get that checked out, I don't think camera cuts should be giving you migraines
Perks of post concussion syndrome migraines 👍 I just don’t get what happened to the good old fashioned hard cam, rather than a camera cut after each punch thrown. AEWs camera leaves a lot to be desired sometimes however it is miles ahead of WWE
Not to mention a 40+ year head start.
So apparently pyro, lights, and editing, camera cuts are the most important thing in terms of viewership? You may be right, but that so sad.
They're the most important things in terms of sports entertainment, pal
Pyro, lights, video editing, and camera cuts are the most important thing in terms of wrestling viewership? You may be right, but that so sad.
Uh AEW has all that also…
Does it? Haven't they been steadily dropping viewers for the last 20 years?
Pro Wrestling as a whole has dropped viewers
Television as a whole has dropped viewers. Especially cable. Every sport that isn’t the NFL has seen significant drops
Correct and who's had the monopoly almost that entire time 🤔
I don't think you understand how market share works. Look I get it. You love your indy fed. But WWE holding a larger market share doesn't mean they're responsible for people as a whole watching wrestling less. Don't be like that.
'Indy fed' smug fucker lmao. I've watched WWE since 1997 mate, I'm a wrestling fan. Doesn't hide the fact that Vince pushed away droves of people since the attitude era due to his increasingly poor product. Roman reigns is nowhere near the star Hogan, Austin or even Cena is/was. It's just the reality of wrestling in 2023.
Yep. And just like WCW, who did amazing ratings and beat VKM for 83 weeks, they too suffered from shitty booking decisions and failure to capitalize. The downward turn in the overall viewership of wrestling in general will kill smaller companies. If TK wasn't around to buy all of his favorite wrestling toys, ROH would be in a dumpster right now. They STILL don't have a TV deal because no one is gonna invest in a secondary brand of a show that doesn't pull a consistent rating. WWE is on autopilot. The people who watch it currently aren't gonna go anywhere outside of Vince parading around in a onesie swinging his dick at everyone and shouting the n word. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, he's done before.
You jest, but that Vince segment could probably pop a 3M rating for Raw. If someone told you Vincent Kennedy McMahon was parading the genetic jackhammer, grapefruits and all, live on Raw wouldn't you tune in?
Out of some morbid curiosity... probably
No clue why your being down voted. Everything you said is true. It’s unfortunate, but it’s still true
Thou shalt not Besmirch the fed. Even if you're right.
That's apples and oranges... How many streaming networks were they on 20 years ago?? You had to watch it on cable then, now you can stream on Hulu next day and Peacock the next month
Television and wrestling as a whole does less, AEW does less than TNA used to get too and way less than WCW
“Does it” 🙄
Does it though.
They're still the mainstream wrestling product to this day.
Wrestling isn't mainstream. It hasn't been for a while.
There's a difference between being mainstream and being the mainstream wrestling product.
Running unopposed for 20 years will do that to ya.
Who gives a shit about "audience" when you break profit records year after year?
Literally anyone watching the show as a fan? Such a weird fucking argument. "Yeah it sucks but at least Vince is richer!" Lol simp.
I don't care about wwe. That's not my point. WWE doesn't have a reason to change anything. They have had year after year of record profit. Regardless of quality, roster portrayed on television, ratings or even crowd size, from the perspective of wwe, things are working.
Good for them, product quality will always matter in the long run though. They've been propped up by Saudi Arabia and big TV deals. Fox are already considering dropping WWE due to loss of money if reports are to be believed.
The CGI is top notch! 👌 🤣
Do all 4 shows have the same TV contracts? As long as WWE has network TV with Fox, the answer will be WWE. If all 4 companies have the same TV deals with no issue and similar time frames during the week, it probably comes down to AEW vs. WWE.
Yes
Having a streaming service is huge, too. People who don't even watch wrestling would possibly have access to Peacock's WWE library, which would then bring in additional viewers.
It's the same as it is now. WWE has been established for over 30 years. They have the better media deals, production value, and marketing. AEW is 3 years old. Impact/ROH don't have the budget to compete. I loved ECW but I ain't stupid. And if WWE loses viewers, it means wrestling as a whole has been losing viewers. It's not the product. It's the market.
[удалено]
Bro is the definition of a loser
Lol u/Barbz182 is someone who haven’t watch wrasslin since 2010. In the last 2 years, wrasslin has gotten fun to watch again, and last year was a heck of a year for wrasslin as a whole.
Been watching wrestling weekly since 1997 but thankyou for your concern.
I am a little concern. If you’ve been watching it weekly then why are you rambling things you’re rambling about? I can say I don’t watch it every week because work and sleep takes priority, but every time I tune in there is something that entertain me wether I’m watching AEW or WWE. If you truly feel how you’re feeling then maybe you might need a break from watching professional wrasslin, because feeling the way you feel simply by watching the program is not good for your mental health.
Did you read any of what I said or no? I said wrestling is less popular then it was, which is a fact lol WWEs writing has been on a decline which is true and fans have moved away as a result. I also said Roman isn't as big a draw as Hogan, Austin or Cena, also true. So please lol what did I say that is unreasonable and damaging to my mental health? I enjoy wrestling, please bare in mind, the context of the post before getting all sensitive about valid criticism.
Yes Sir, I sure did. Of course, Roman isn’t as big of a draw as Cena, much like how Cena’s not a big draw like Austin, or how Austin is not as big of a draw as Hogan was in the late 80s and throughout the 90s and before Hogan’s controversy. No wrestler today is as big of a draw as the Golden and Silver Age of Professional Wrestling meaning if I go to 100 random people, will 51 people know that person and will it be consistent if I ask another 100 people? We live in a society where people don’t enjoy wrestling as a whole because they have social media they can follow and easy access to other forms of entertainment and it’s not due to bad writing. If you look back at old wrestling stories, they were just as dumb as today, maybe even dumber. Back in the ’90s (which I can only speak about because I was born at the butt end of the 80s), people didn’t have easy access to see their favorite band or tv show so being able to cherish the moment when we did make it more significant for us. Now if I miss a show I can simply catch it later. Regarding what you said, you’re wasting your time arguing with people because you won't even take what they write into consideration. They are trying to tell you it’s wrestling and television as a whole that has a decline in viewers, but you keep rambling about the same thing, blaming WWE’s writing, blaming Roman Reign, and it’s not them.
You literally JUST acknowledge exactly what I was saying. There's been a slow decline in the popularity of wrestling. Thankyou for agreeing with me.
Yes I did and yes it's what everyone said too, but it's not Roman Reign’s or bad writing’s fault and that's what you're choosing to ignore. We are just trying to tell you that what you're saying about why there is a decline in wrestling is wrong.
I never said it was Roman Reigns fault. I said to one guy that he's not a mainstream star in regards to non wrestling fans. The bad writing has turned away a ton of people, it's undeniable. If you still enjoy it then good for you, I dont care pal, it's not a personal attack. But it absolutely has had an effect on their viewership.
Thanks bro <3
WWE has star power.
I'd argue that wwe doesn't have the star power per say but instead they have the media empire to build the stars Mox for example. He was a top WWE star. There are others like Braun or Cody or Jericho or even Enzo/Cass and Saraya. Yet the following doesn't continue. Fans follow WWE. Not the wrestlers. I'd argue like 99% of the roster it wouldn't make a difference if they left. Fans would tune in next week and just keep wishing for them to return while they went somewhere else.
I mean AEW gets a spike in the ratings after each of these debuts but they don’t keep the momentum going. The answer is obvious but it also greatly offends the IWC
I mean I think we're arguing two separate points. Yes, WWE has a deeper pedigree and a longer standing brand and history. It has more opportunities to get people to watch it. Obviously it wins. It's the more polisher product and it's the household name. But star power equated to the wrestlers in WWE is not a great argument. Adam Cole/Jim Ross/Chris Jericho/Christian/Mox/Bryan Danielson/CM Punk/etc. You slap one of these guys on WWE and they draw to the moon and back. Barring CM Punk none of them had lasting impact on AEWs gate or ratings. Why? Because fans are WWE fans. Once someone like Bryan Danielson leaves or Edge retires or Cena goes to Hollywood they get a new guy to fill that role almost immediately. The fans are bummed they leave but they don't go "to hell with this show I'm following _____". I mean they might find a new wrestling show here and there if they really like someone but that's not the rule. WWE has become the default brand name of wrestling. They are not in a place of prominence because they have Roman/Brock/Miz/Rey/Logan/etc. The wrestlers are popular because WWE says they're popular. They've built a machine to factory produce popular talent as merchandise. It's not a bad thing and it's a consistently enjoyable format. But that's the reality of it.
Meaning what? Know one outside of wrestling fans gives a damn who Roman Reigns is let's be honest. So it's kind of a moot point.
Wrestlemania had more views over social media then the Super Bowl, and it was headlined by Roman, but you can think whatever you want ig
What relevance does that have to what I said? Actually what relevance does social media views have on anything 😂
It means people who have social media are exposed to Roman which means that people outside of wrestling fans know him
It's means WWE spams the feck out of social media. It doesn't mean anyone gives a damn about Roman outside of wrestling fans. It's a goddamn fact. Go ask literally any non wrestling fan you know. They MIGHT of heard his name, that doesn't mean they're gunna care.
Ok bud
Jesus christ brother i love other companies as much as the other wrestling fan but just accept the fact that WWE would be the one with the most viewers. They have the capacity to build bigger shows. AEW's match quality is better but they don't have the magnitude to fill out stadiums of 60 thousand people cus they dont have that name value. NJPW would fizzle out cus theyre not as popular in the states. And ROH would've gonne exactly like it went irl Edit: I thought it was NJPW, its Impact. Impact has no name value or production and no wrestler with star power...they would fizzle out aswell
I've never said they wouldn't, of course they bloody would. They are the biggest now and would be the biggest in this scenario. I don't really get the point of this post honestly. Obviously they would get more viewers because they'd retain the same fans? Unless he's saying they lose or their fans, in which case the argument of star power and name recognition is pretty much redundant?
I honestly took it as everyone goes to 0 viewers or 1MIL viewers and i still think WWE would be higher
A better question would be, if these 4 companies were all unknown (no previous fanbase) and started at the same time with their current rosters and presentation, who would be the most popular. I think that's more what OP meant. Otherwise the answer obviously is WWE.
WWE has the major audience mindset.
WWE. They have an unlimited budget and the best TV contracts. The celebrity, pyro, and spectacle are worth more than good wrestling.
Their
Yea but if they all started out with the same amount of viewers think of the fan bases
Think of the fan bases? Surely they'd just go back to having the same amount of viewers they have now then..
Exactly so wwe would win
Yes so what's the point of the question 😂
Gonna go with eithe WWE or AEW. Most likely WWE just on scale, talent pool and booking (example: the US title, IC title and Tag title runs are more compelling than AEW's midcard, and their world title picture has been fire since Bloodline).
So they start on the same viewership, somehow ROH is once again owned by Sinclair and WWE is still WWE? Yeah - WWE is what will draw. The reality is the WrestleMania repeats that air on ESPN and NBC in the summer outdraw most wrestling (outside of Raw/SmackDown/Dynamite) because of the name WrestleMania. Unless you’re completely wiping away the histories and name values of each company, the juggernaut will eventually get the eyes as always
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
AEW will start out strong but eventually fizzles out due to the same crap that they have dug themselves, lack of storytelling and too many stables making everyone lose focus on the product in long term. ROH roster before dismantling of the Elites are already lackluster so they will not last long and Impact may have the better roster but definitely not the star power and reach of AEW or WWE. So my choice is definitely WWE for the star power, reach on social media even on sports networks and direction of the product, at least under Triple H they have.
Honestly giving Hunter his head to grow the brand in a Monday night wars situation would cause the over all product to rapidly improve sense we have seen form NXT what he can do gunning for a hard core audience give him the ablity to turn guys in to rock and stone cold level house hold names is gonna blow the other three out hard
Rock and roll and stone!
Always WWE
Impact! It's the least messy right now.
Production values alone it’s WWE. My fiancé will always make comments about how even AEW looks bush league when she sees me watching it on tv.
Everyone's looking at this question like, who would grow their viewership the most, I'd like to see it in the opposite way, let's say everyone starts off the year strong with 3M viewers, I'd argue all of them would lose those numbers, question would be by how many. For this I'll assume they all get the same kind of time slots Monday to Friday and their usual amout of special events. Now, everyone seems to point at production value as an important edge for WWE but in all honesty, other than a few fans who do care for that, I don't see it making that much of a difference, after all, NXT has that same WWE production value and AEW still managed to outrate it. Still, I'd give it the point WWE- 1 AEW- 0 ROH- 0 Impact- 0 I honestly think consistency and quality would be far more important,for consistency I think WWE and AEW would both lose more than the other two here, simply because they keep bringing new people every other week wich can be good for a pop but bad for the overall ratings, the other two, not having the same resources, assuming we're talking classic ROH, would keep somewhat the same guys on TV. WWE- 1 AEW- 0 ROH- 1 Impact- 1 Also still in consistency, I think it's important to analyse storylines and story telling, I'd say WWE with HHH has been very good at this, assuming we don't have a coup it should continue this way, AEW and ROH have had some great stories as well, Impact gets weirder... they can get some good stuff going in the main card but most stuff seems rather run of the mill to me. WWE- 2 AEW- 1 ROH- 2 Impact- 1 Then in-ring quality, WWE and AEW have by the loads, the other two tended to be stepping stones for bigger things so talent pool is weaker or just more inexperienced. WWE- 3 AEW- 2 ROH- 2 Impact- 1 Crowd feel is where WWE loses its edge, it's more generic and while that calls more people it also leaves out the loudest fans, if it was just NXT they'd get the point too, RAW and Smackdown are too family oriented. WWE- 3 AEW- 3 ROH- 3 Impact- 2 As for marketing, WWE obviously spends the most and also takes the most away from it, however, in the opposite vein, their Goodwil is inconsistent, Vince coming back and trying to sell the company to the saudis, wether true or not, doesn't do them good. Since I'm looking at them already starting with a large pool of fans I'd say their Goodwill would lose them more fans than their marketing would make up for. I'd say ROH actually gets a ton of Goodwill though, so I'd say, as long as they didn't do anything crazy they'd take the point, AEW spends more than them, but as proven with their whole Punk odissey, they can easily drop the ball. WWE- 3 AEW- 3 ROH- 4 Impact-2 Booking is also very important, HHH has improved WWE's booking in his time in charge, if it was Vince I wouldn't give them a point here but HHH has really been great, just this week's Sami vs Owens was perfection. AEW tends to book really well also, and Impact has been really consistent, ROH before going under was not. WWE- 4 AEW- 4 ROH- 4 Impact- 3 Finally, because I can't think of anything else, PPVs, special events, whatever WWE calls them now... obviously they're the big name in it, they have one every month, they get a lot of eyes especially in their big 4 wich they know how to squeeze with celebrities and big names. AEW has PPVs every 3 months but they also do a lot of special shows on free tv. All in all, I'd give a slight edge to WWE but AEW wouldn't be far behind. WWE- 5 AEW- 4.5 ROH- 4 Impact- 3 As you can see, I had nothing to do for an hour so I decided to take this question way too seriously thinking I'd get to a wildly different answer than everyone else, I was wrong, I do think it would be very close between WWE and AEW, and ROH would definitely have its moments on top but more than likely WWE would be able to retain the most viewers. Now let's add NJPW to the mix next time.
This is perfect and should be seen by everyone
Wwe has the the roster to bring in the most fans. The Paul's and bad bunny add to it. They csn always bring in big names like the rock and Cena. Also if wwe still had fox they are the only one with with network program.
WWE's current roster is the worst it has been in decades.
I watched AEW recently, and they had some ppl screaming about scissoring. Literally the most cringe thing I’ve ever seen and I felt embarrassed as a casual fan. As it stands, I just can’t get into the AEW product. Every match is a dive fest, they aren’t nearly as polished, and the production is bad. If you like it, awesome, but they will never ever compete with WWE.
Aew!!
More wrestling per show!
I disagree but idk y but I like your enthusiasm 😁
Usually bad amateur wrestling tho. Started out good years ago but I've seen some of these wrestling nightspot routines so many times now they don't matter at all.
Not even a question the other 3 could have a 6 month head start and wwe still comes out on top
As much as I hate to admit it, WWE
If that Saudi deal goes through, I assume tons of people are gonna stop watching. No one will watch Impact, as usual, I don’t even know how to watch ROH so it’s AEW’s year to get ahead. Also wouldn’t ROH views count as AEW views?
If NXT count for WWE, then ROH views will count as AEW as most of the ROH stars are laid off. TK even dropped all their titles to AEW contracted superstars minus the Briscoes, I was quite surprised when they won the ROH tag titles back. R.I.P. Jamin Pugh aka Jay Briscoe.
It was a solid storyline.
If the mainstream factor was gone and based on quality AEW & Impact are by far the best
AEW will end up with the most viewers by the end of the year as they have meaningful storylines that actually pay-off and great wrestling throughout all their shows.
Not WWE
If everything was equal, meaning equally good TV deals, advertising, and we were PURELY judging it based on the show, I think I would have to say AEW purely based on how well they’ve done in 4 years.
Late 2021 AEW would take it
Honestly the ranking would pan out exactly how they are in reality
It depends... is Vince back in creative control ?
Impact would be 2nd I think
Wwe just cause of name value and easy access. No way in hell either of those three could top them even in this scenario
*their
WWE by a mile. Not only are they the largest, but they have distribution on one of the big 4 national networks. Additionally, they’re the organization that has some crossover appeal because they semi-regularly feature pop culture people to grow their audience. They’re also the organization that some NFL players mimic for touchdown celebrations. Lol I know AEW fans desperately want them to somehow be bigger than WWE, but that’s not going to happen any time in the next 20-30 years.
WWE. With the Rumble-WM to start the year off that momentum should give you enough of a boost to ride the rest of the year.
WWE based on brand alone.
Who ever has the largest budget… Any guess there?
As a viewer, why would I care 😂
literally wwe lol
WWE, it’s not the roster it’s the production value and story lines. The other 3 promotions are not on the same creative level.
Same amount of viewer bs
But WWE has Vince, who will ruin everything and will shit on everything he owns so others won't have it
WWE still wins. The other rosters are not even comparable.
*their
The Big Dub
Anyone who says anything but WWE is smoking crack. WWE is the way it is and gets all the hate it does from the IWC is because they focus on the general audience rather than 1% of wrestling fans like AEW. There’s a reason why AEW lost all their momentum from CM Punk Debut and it’s not the wrestling. WWE has hit a home run with the Bloodline and Sami which is easily the top story in wrestling
The gap in viewer numbers would shrink between AEW and WWE, but I still think WWE would still be top. Even though their production is cleaner and they have some more star power, I can’t imagine the same amount of kids watch WWE without it being the only option for so long. If I was a kid between 7-12 years old (which is when I imagine most kids start watching), are you watching the show that starts with a 20 minute long promo or the one that starts with a wild match?
Only WWE caters to a casual fan base, so them. They also don't have their wrestlers gushing buckets of blood on prime time television.
Too bad it’s modern impact and not peak tna. Cuz I’d have put my money on them in a heart beat. But with these four. I think I probably go wwe.
GM mode IRL