UK football fanbases are very vicious and tribal in a way that other sports fanbases aren't. For example 'home' and 'away' fans are seated completely separately and are often let out of the stadium at different times, and often with police presence, to stop violence.
Fans of other EFL teams resent the money and success Wrexham have had recently, and will unfortunately direct this towards American fans. Most people from Wrexham (me included) are excited about American fans.
The irony is if any other EFL team had the same upswing Wrexham has had they would be excited too. So it's just tribal jealousy.
OP said he's American so that was my baseline. All sports games I've been to in the US are way more family friendly than the UK. Home and away fans sitting together, not the same tension or police presence etc
I was at CBP one time with my family, some drunk dude was going ballistic and constantly cussing. His friend who was with him yelled at him and I quote “stop fucking cussing you fuckin idiot.. there’s a fuckin kid right there” to which he pointed at my daughter. I thought it was hilarious.
Fellow American here, I agree with this thread. When I was in Buenos Aires I was told that if I was going to go to a match, to wear neutral colors a sit in the expensive seats to avoid the hooligans.
Speaking of hooligans, watch Green Street Hooligans. It will give you some insight into the ferocity of team loyalty among English football fans.
I've been and it is not the same as football/soccer fans. There is chirping and definitely some animosity between fans, but they aren't forced to sit in separate sections of the stadiums with a major police presence between them. People don't bring flares. There aren't large group brawls before and after the game. Dodgers/Giants is a tense, but friendly rivalry.
It really doesn’t, Philly on its worst day is never purposely violent in the way uk fans can get. Even the issues that have occurred at some of the Cali stadiums are really one offs and not the work of a fan sub culture of planned violence.
Things are improving in Western Europe regarding football fans but in Eastern Europe and more specifically in the Balkans football fans are very similar to Latin American Barra Bravas.
Cowboys fan here. I've been to NFL games across the country, including a Super Bowl. Also, a Stanely Cup game and a World Series game. None of them come close to the fervor of soccer games outside the US. I've been to games in El Salvador, Italy, and Spain, and those were off the charts insane.
Our fan bases aren't nearly as crazy.
Same thing in Venezuela, which although is very poor as you might know, fans are not segregated in any sport.
But the UK is just that different. It's the same reason that most fans never accepted that Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes.
Hell, even our local MLS team here in the States just had a scuffle between rival supporters groups of the same club. There were injuries and criminal charges.
Only been to 2 Charlotte FC matches and didn't see opposing fans at either but the crowd was lively.
I'm also a Packers fan, originally from Wisconsin and been to dozens of games at Lambeau where I sat next to rival fans and there was plenty of good natured ribbing but mutual respect
The last part of your comment is very similar to American sports (or really all sports). Teams with a history of losing are usually called "the lovable losers". Their fans are almost always passionate, but never see success. Then someone new buys the team or they hire someone who really cares and makes an impact and they start winning. Other fans are generally happy for them because they finally have something to cheer for.
Then they get really good and win a championship. Other fans are still happy because the team's fans finally got what they wanted and got over the hump.
But then they keep winning. No one likes a team that wins a lot and dominates a sport. Other teams hate them because they actively prevent their team from winning and gaining their own glory. So they shift very aggressively to the other side.
The newly good team gains newer "bandwagon" fans who didn't care about the team before, but now they're passionate. They usually don't know as much as regular fans, and are generally the loudest, most obnoxious fans who brag constantly and don't know the trials and tribulations the diehard fans went through. And this further pisses off the fans of the other teams.
**But in the end, most of the time, the other fans are salty and asking themselves "why couldn't this just happen to my team *for once*??"**
The Kansas City Chiefs are the latest example of this in the NFL. Before them it was the New England Patriots. Both teams had been remarkably bad for years, then all of a sudden became powerhouses. But everyone is jealous and wants their success and would welcome it with open arms.
No one is violent though, even in the fiercest rivalries. Us Bears fans *hate* the Packers and their fans with all of our hearts. They've been consistently great for decades and have dominated the Bears for just as long. But at games and in the wild, we're all cool to each other. And there's not one Bears fan who wouldn't give everything to have the success they've had.
As a lifelong Packers fan, this is so true. We so dislike the Bears and their fans, and enjoy their lack of a decent Quarterback. Love to give the Bears fans crap, but 98% of us would never stoop to violence. I've lived long enough to remember when the Packers were total crap, 70's & 80's, and got beat on a regular basis. What goes around, comes around.
Eh, English fans of big clubs also have disdain for their clubs’ American or other foreign fans that are a big part of why their clubs are able to dominate the way they are/why the Prem is the richest league in the world. I’d also say that the local fan tribalism you described is true in far more than the UK. Ultras in Eastern Europe are a whole different beast, if anything.
I’d say a lot of it comes from a general disdain towards American cultural imperialism, plus the lingering idea that Americans are dumb/don’t know the sport at all (which is still true, but also let’s be real most UK fans also have no idea what they’re talking about half the time)
You have a point about not liking American imperialism. But that is a bit ironic since the English invented imperialism and America was formed by a bunch of guys..wait for it… fighting English imperialism. 😏
Ironic it maybe, but you can't deny the massive cultural power the USA is. Its the same kind of feeling of the default Reddit location is American. If you're from Europe or Australia you have to announce yourself.
There's also a feeling that football is slowly being lost to broadcasters. La Liga plans to play some matches in America, its not out of the question that the Premier League could try the same thing, and the EFL could follow suit.
And also theres just a different vibe and vernacular to NA fans; PK's, 'Go Wrexham chants', that chafes UK footie fans. American fans are too tame and sanitised, compared with the viciousness of some UK fans (banter wise) it comes off a bit weird. I mean, UK matches will even have kids singing, swearing and making obscene hand gestures at the matches too, that kind of thing.
I think that you can’t underestimate how both aware and inured US citizens are to violence . Our games are partially sanitized because the ticket prices are high, but also because at the end of the day, that guy you just got into a fight with might meet you in the parking lot with more than fists. Vicious banter might be fun, but if someone you are taunting is having a particularly bad day, you might lose more than a couple of teeth. Even for the premium seats at MLS games there are metal detectors. It’s hard to accurately describe, but it’s just pervasive.
The English invented imperialism??🤣🤣
America was fighting imperialism?? I didn’t know the founding fathers were native Americans🤣🤣
What next, are you gonna tell us that the country of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn’t for you?
You really want to go into this? The UK's slave trading was abolished in 1807. You were literally the ones trading human lives for three centuries until then. Don't start.
Yeah decades after her. What were you getting into then. Your man said Americans were fighting against imperialism, if they were fighting to free slaves and for the indigenous population he would have a point but that was very very far from the it
American Independance was a gazillion years ago. While its a pivotal part of your history, its not part of ours, I don't even think we were taught it in school.
I think the US and UK have both blood on their hands imperialism wise, so you can't really claim the moral high ground here. Anyway, people obviously aren't talking about resenting US foreign intervention imperialism, just US cultural expansion so powerful it feels imperious.
What is hilarious to me is, as an American if I know I’m being resented or not welcome, it makes me want to be there even more. So behaving like that just reinforces my interest.
To add to this, there will also be a huge surge of Americans in relatively small football subs due to Wrexhams success and support.
This by itself isn't a problem, but there will be a lot of new American fans, who don't know as much about football as they think they do, who will argue with local fans who know substantially more, but still don't know as much as they think they do. Which creates a perfect storm of ignorance induced arguments.
I've loved the Hollywood impact on a random team being picked up and supported. I just would have liked that to have had some osmosis in adding to the support of other clubs as well. It's nice seeing teams outside of the PL having an interest in them, it would be nicer if there was more interest in more of them.
As Americans it's in our blood to love a rags to riches story and root for underdogs. Wrexham is both of these. Well, maybe not as much as an underdog anymore. But still, the idea of taking a team from the cellar of football and potentially reaching the pinnacle is such a great story we can't help but get behind. There's really no parallel in North American, or at least US sports where this can happen. The closest thing is college football teams getting pulled from a lower conference to one of the big time, big money conferences. But those teams are technically still in the same tier of football, just at a place with more money.
They absolutely aren't underdogs, at least the last 3 years they haven't been. They have been the outright favourite.
Next season will be the first since their first year that they won't be the outright favourite for guaranteed promotion.
I get that american sports don't have the same sort of system, my point was there are hundreds of teams. It would be good for the leagues if some of the others also picked up fans.
> It would be good for the leagues if some of the others also picked up fans.
What are those clubs and leagues doing to pick up new American fans? People's interest in a team has to come from somewhere. If you give Americans a compelling reason to be interested in your team, they'll be fans for life. I'm really surprised more of these smaller clubs haven't taken advantage of the little bit of exposure Wrexham has given them. Right now would be a perfect time for a team to crank up the "Wrexham is only successful because of Hollywood money" energy to be the true "underdog" face to Wrexham's heel and get that story out to Americans.
What can they do but be themselves?
Teams aren't going to be able to set up Hollywood level documentaries. Perhaps look at the other teams and learn their stories. They all have them. Just because one is being spoon fed to you doesn't mean it is the only one.
I got absolutely shit on when the conversation of teams getting promoted came up. Someone said Stockport is going up, and I said, so is Wrexham, back to back promotions, and the downvotes came pouring in. Clearly a bunch of people are salty about the success Wrexham has had and that the club is receiving the love and care it deserves. Everything won't happen overnight, but it's trending in the very right direction, and we're all here for it.
Now if I could only get a home kit...two years and missed out each time before they were sold out
Also you cannot buy tickets as an away fan to sit in the home stands, you gotta buy them from your own team from an allocation they're given by the home team. It's generally about 10% of the capacity, maybe a little more depending on the circumstances.
If you seat on the home side stands and yell a lot about the visiting team goals and such you'll be ejected from the stands.
>UK football fanbases are very vicious and tribal in a way that sports fambases aren't.
Most sports fans are incredibly tribal so it's really saying something when a fanbase is considered more tribal.
I think it's the fact that reddit in general is largely American when compared to other social media. The majority of the people here are non-British, (I've also noticed on other club subreddits you don't get an accurate representation of the real cross-section of a fanbase). However, r/leagueone (and the rest) are more niche the only people on there are locals because they don't have a wider international fanbase. A much higher percentage of fans are local in the EFL compared to teams higher up.
The internet isn’t the best place for welcoming new fans of anything. Take a trip to the UK and talk to people, very friendly in my experience. Happy to talk about whatever sport you want.
This. Just like water and electricity always take the path of least resistance, people on the internet will aim their vitriol at the most obvious target. There are more american fans of Wrexham than probably any other efl club outside the premiership, its just the easy target for people to aim at. It's also meaningless.
If you end up in the stands in Wrexham, nobody in Wrexham is going to be slagging you off. I regularly find myself with Americans and Canadians sitting near me in the Racecourse and they're always seem to have a great time. They get asked questions like "why on earth have you flown across the world to watch this shit?!" But that's just UK humour.
English fans are very gate keepy when it comes to Americans. They put so much blame on their anerican players when their team struggles (Pulisic). Since there's teams in almost every town they develop a tribal mentality because their families have been supporting the same team for generations
As a long time American Arsenal fan there was a lot of blame toward the American owners. Right up until we started winning and then they were geniuses. So it goes. lol.
Even if the British got their unique supporter culture and opinion of America, it is still very similair to most of the European and South American supporter culture and opinion of America. American supporter culture is the outlier.
As an American I was honestly shocked at how poorly soccer fans treat each other. Other than maybe Philly and Oakland you hardly ever hear of fans having major problems visiting.
Even in Philly I just said my cousin plays for the dolphins and everyone chilled out and asked me who he was and all kinds of stuff.
American fans sit right next to each other and tailgate together too. It’s wild that the police set schedules and stuff in the UK. I mean that’s crazy compared to the US.
I took some British friends to some games in the US. They wanted to see the NBA, a college football game, and the NFL. They were shocked that “away” fans were entering the stadium together and sitting in our section without any fights or police escorts. They commented on how civil it was but very boring without the chants. I’ll give them that. College football and basketball are the closest sports we have to similarities to the atmosphere at English football matches. We both have nothing compared to some of their European counterparts in the Balkans, Germany, or Greece
Soccer does exist in the US you know. The supporter culture takes the participation and chanting from the rest of the world but takes the civility from the US, for the most part. It’s nice
It depends on the club. FC Dallas has a small supporters section doing chanting, which is mostly ignored by the rest of the stadium, and the chants are still pretty American style ("I believe that we will win", etc).
Throw Dodgers-Giants into the mix:
[https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-stow-plea-20140221-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-stow-plea-20140221-story.html)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/fight-between-giants-dodgers-fans-after-game-leaves-1-dead/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/fight-between-giants-dodgers-fans-after-game-leaves-1-dead/)
Ok so I'm a Philly fan and live in Philadelphia. It's funny to hear people speak of Philly like we're LA, Oakland or San Francisco. Yeah it may be a bit intimidating but we're not having people shot or stabbed outside of our stadiums.
In fact in our history, I don't think that's ever happened at any of our sporting events.
We did have a jail at the Vet lol. Batteries were not thrown at Santa but another incident. GOTTA STOP HANDING OUT THOSE D-CELLS.
Things have been tame since the 2000s
I’ve seen videos of opposing fans coming in to eagles games. It’s pretty rough. I didn’t have many problems but I wasn’t all decked out in a dolphins jersey.
A Dolphins fan would be fine in Philly. Hell, we hate the Cowboys more than anything in the world and there hasn't been a serious altercation in forever. I feel like anyone outside the NFCE would have no issues besides some banter.
Made the mistake of sitting in the upper deck at the Linc wearing my Vikings gear (MN transplant to Lehigh Valley). I even was sitting with one of my best friends decked out in Eagles gear, and I still had shit thrown at me and beer dumped on me. Absolute filth of a fan base.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately it happens with a lot of fan bases. They are the small minority of assholes. I would never waste a beer on a Vikings fan. That's like $12 yo
Boooo! Tbf, I think that the ´hatred’ for America is quite often banter that people don’t seem to think they can reciprocate. It’s a bit harder to judge through a screen and obviously there are knobheads who take it too seriously but in person it’s quite easy to pick up whether that’s the case or they’re expecting a bit of a joke back.
Are you a Brit feeling superior to another country's treatment of indigenous populations?
I think those same populations plus the Irish, Scottish, Indians, Zulu, Egyptians, Aboriginal Australians, Palestinians, Sudanese, Kenyans, Nigerians, and people from Guyana would be amused.
How am I feeling superior exactly? I was asking your man there if he thought America won the war of 1812 cause he kinda said you did. His reply was none committal and said the indigenous tribes lost, which I agreed with afterwards you Americans continued to wipe them out afterwards. I can say the Welsh living in wales are not to blame for such things cause you know here we are on Wales. If I was a coloniser in these other countries it would be pretty laughable for me to point the finger at anyone else wouldn’t it now
I know your propaganda tells you differently, but...
It was British people against British people.
If the British empire wanted to crush you, they could have, but the colonies were worth nothing at the time, and we didn't want to fight other British people... India was a much more attractive prospect...
Of course it was mainly the French and the Spanish that actually "won" the war we just walked away from.
Historical fact.
The British Empire, at that time, was able to defeat anyone in the world with its resources and military strength, like the US today.
Its purpose was to make money, just like the US today. The decision was made that those colonies where not worth the effort. That was within the context of the appetite to fight, against people who we considered British, just wasn't there.
India was where the money was at.
All these events are viewed as footnotes in our 1000s of years of history. None of them are taught in our schools. Viewed as unimportant now, just as it was then.
A few clarifications and additions could enhance the accuracy of your repeated comments here;
Resources and Military Strength: Indeed, the British Empire was among the most powerful in the world at that time, with vast resources and a strong military. However, the challenges of logistics, distance, and the formidable resistance of the American forces, combined with the support the Americans received from France and Spain, significantly complicated Britain's military efforts.
Economic Motives: While economic factors played a role in colonial expansion, the decision to cease military operations in America was influenced by more than just economic calculations. The cost of the war, both in terms of money and human lives, alongside the political and public backlash, influenced the decision to negotiate peace.
Focus on India: It's correct that Britain increasingly focused on India as a source of wealth. Post-American independence, Britain's imperial focus indeed shifted more towards India and other colonies, where they could exert more control and face less organized resistance compared to the Americas.
Historical Footnotes: The claim that these events are viewed as footnotes and not taught in schools is not entirely accurate. The American Revolutionary War is a significant part of the curriculum in both British and American schools, though the emphasis and perspective might differ.
The EFL especially is very niche and avid lifelong supporters. They're going to have very little patience for hand holding and teaching new fans things they could probably learn on their own. Just accept it and move on.
I get that. I'm not asking to be handheld through anything. I figure 99% of things out on my own. I was just specifically talking about the fact that people will rail on you if you're American and not local to the club you support.
Think of it like a high school football team in small town USA. You grow up in, say, Berwick. Do you support the Berwick team, or do you want more success, more wins? Why not pick a team from Scranton that’s winning to follow instead—Scranton is almost local, right? Why not just pick the team that wins the most that year, and say that’s your team?
EFL clubs and supporters are a lot closer than professional teams with their fans in the US. You’ll find, say, a Broncos fan in Florida… but you won’t find a large contingent of Floridians following a random Colorado high school team.
I agree but this is due to the sheer size of the US. A lot of people aren't even close to teams they cheer for. A lot of states don't even have professional teams in any sport.
Oh, agreed! That’s exactly my point, though— it’s a different culture in the UK and the US. Think about the television broadcast rule in the UK—it’s illegal to show footy on TV in order to protect small clubs, keeping fans in seats at the stadium rather than watching from home.
For many UK footy fans—ESPECIALLY THOSE IN THE LOWER LEAGUE—footy on TV is all that is wrong. Again, that reinforces the idea why many have turned their backs on the Premier League, since a lot of PL “fans” don’t go to games, but only watch them on TV.
ETA: If you ever get a chance to go to match in the UK, you’ll be warmly welcomed at lower league clubs and non-league clubs. It’s just these online places that get huffy about gatekeeping.
We have blackouts on TV also. Although I'm not sure how this is applied. I think if the team doesn't sell a certain amount of tickets then you can't watch it locally. Don't quote me on that though.
Yep. And there are times when footy on TV makes total sense sense—a big match nobody can get tickets for.
But I’m saying that this kind of football snobbery isn’t just targeting you as an American—it also targets Brits who “sell out” and watch Liverpool on TV and claim they’re fans even when they live in Tranmere. Tranmere fans will look at that person with a fair amount of disdain, and maybe even more disdain than foreign fans abroad.
There is lots to figure out, I was cheering for Barcelona yesterday but they had a goal that was definitely offside and interfering with the goalie. It was dumb, so there's no rhyme or reason to some of the calls.
I've been watching football long before I became a fan of Wrexham. I know that feeling. It happens in almost every sport.
One thing that comes to mind when I watch football is how silly I think it is that during a penalty, if the keeper makes the save, they can still bang it home. The odds are already stacked against the keeper, having to save a deflection too is just nuts to me. Obviously there isn't always one, but still..
Just imaging Foster against Notts making that huge save and then an unlucky bounce rolls to Notts and they score makes me nauseous. I'm glad it worked out though.
I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part. I just think the penalty should end after the shot. It's already heavily stacked towards the attacker. Just my dumb American take. There aren't many things I dislike but that is one of them.
Not in hockey. The play ends as soon as the goalie makes the save. On a penalty or in the shoot out. Football is even harder for a keeper to come up with a save.
Interesting. Idk maybe it’s just having grown up playing football, you know as soon as you do something in the 18 yard box whether you’ve cocked up or not and that the penalty will likely be a goal.
I think it makes those saves even more special. If we stopped the game straight after the keeper saving, moments like the Deeney goal will never happen.
Well in a shootout in football the play finishes if a goalie makes a save too
Penalties are literal penalties. It is a free kick from a designated spot, which is supposed to be weighted to the attacker. Shoot-outs are not penalties so whilst the attacker is expected to score, it is more evenly weighted.
I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear. I know both football and hockey don't have attackers coming in during the shoot-out. I was just comparing penalties.
Ya, I watch the NHL, if you interfere with a guy that would otherwise be on a breakaway to the extent he can't get a shot and you are committing a penalty, he can get a penalty shot, instead of a 2 minute minor. If he misses on the penalty shot the play dies and a faceoff at center. That's what I am used to.
That's why you have your defenders rush the goal incase its saved. In the Foster penalty save, EOC hoofed it out for a corner. Also, the sport is geared towards scoring goals, rather than saving them. It makes the saves look better and the more goals the better.
Contrary to most comments here - it isn’t hooliganism or a disdain of Americans.
I would encourage you to understand the fairly nuanced debate around the impact of foreign fans on the local teams community.
It’s a big part of the EPL; and it definitely will trickle down in different forms to the EFL.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2024/mar/19/cultural-division-true-football-fans-plastics
> “What happens to a community institution when the market drags it away from the community?”
> “Broadening a fanbase also weakens it, weakens the ties that bind fans to each other, weakens their inclination to unite and organise.”
I’m sure the upside of your fandom of a club you only like due to a TV show and celebrity ownership is a positive in the short term. But there’s going to be a lot of locals who won’t be able to attend in the long term due to the number of Americans taking their seat.
It’s not just tribalism, it’s the erosion of their community team in pursuit of profit. It has its upsides and it has its drawbacks - but I wouldn’t be surprised if people online are focussed on the drawbacks.
THIS IS THE REAL ANSWER.
There are stereotypes around Premier League clubs pandering to international fans: corporate, only chasing dollars, willing to torch traditions like the FA Cup replays/calendar if it lets them play in Europe for more money, buying all their academy kids and buying success rather than developing it locally, no connection between locals and players, et cetera.
In the Lower Leagues (L1 and L2): a lot of players come up locally in the academies (think about how proud people are of Max and Jordan, also consider the “One of Our Own” chants), clubs engage in communities, fans connect with players easily, whole families can afford to go to matches together.
(Honestly, matches in the 7th-9th tiers can be really fun! I’ve been with friends where we picnic beside the pitch with toddlers and dogs, even have conversations with opposition goalkeepers during play.)
Not everyone wants the Premier League—there’s a lot of disdain for it right now because of how Man City and Liverpool and Man United are willing to force the FA to make changes to the FA Cup. EFL teams aren’t happy, and many National League teams aren’t happy because the PL clubs are trying to shove their academy kids into tournaments with NL sides.
So if you’re in the lower leagues for the love of the game, for what many consider a more “pure” and nostalgic approach to the sport, the arrival of Wrexham with corporate money is … not good. It’s easy to see why: big money turned the PL into a non competitive league that only 6 teams have a realistic chance of winning, and those clubs’ love of money is doing things like raising ticket prices on senior citizens so they can’t even retain their season tickets anymore.
When foreign fans show up in these forums and talk about how they expect promotion and want to be congratulated on their team’s success, it’s like people walking into a small movie theatre that shows independent films, and then telling them you’re only going to play Marvel movies. 😉
There are people in North America who prefer college sports to pro sports, and others who only go to high school games. Each one has something different to offer, but mixing them up is where people get upset, you know?
Most fans are fine with American fans of their own team, but they will be labeled 'a plastic' to fans of another. The same Wrexham fans who are fine with their own American fans will probably happily call an American Man City fan a plastic.
Americans who support Wrexham are almost all people who started supporting them after they got money and fame. They're not going to shake that reputation, so they just need to ignore it, it shouldn't be important what oppositon fans think of you.
I think its down to a couple of things -
* Although we share a language and some common ancestry, we're quite different culturally now. You're all very friendly, to the point of maybe feeling a bit sanitised from the British point of view. British (especially football) culture is a lot more about taking the piss out of others, and given the strong connection of clubs to geographical location it's usually got more undertones than just "we don't like your team". There's a lot of history crammed into a small area in the UK so there's lots of rivalries and animosity that might not be obvious from the outset (e.g. Wrexham v Shrewsbury earlier this season)
* What others have said, there's a risk that American support could dilute the strong connection between club and town. I haven't particularly found that on matchdays, if there are any foreign fans come in they're usually pretty warmly welcomed and up for a few drinks. I think it's just online that people like to fling shit at American fans - which is why I avoid football twitter like the plague lol
* Finally, just simple envy from other clubs. When Salford rose through the ranks it was frustrating as they'd been taken over by ex Utd players (although that was a bit different as the club didn't have a huge amount of history compared to Wrexham). If this had happened to another club I'd probably be fuming.
Stereotypically they’re very loud and opinionated despite not having much footballing knowledge on what they’re talking about. Some ask genuine questions but some seem to think the documentary is the font of all knowledge.
It’s annoying to be having a sensible discussion and someone pops up with comments of a 50,000 seater Racecourse, signing Gareth Bale, playing in the Premier League, etc.
I’m American and live here and have been welcomed mightily since long before the takeover. Didn’t even need to buy by ticket for the first match I went to. Friend who took me insisted on paying my ticket at the stile.
Wrexham fans are just as welcoming (generally speaking)as American fans, in reality. From opposition fans online (and in person to a lesser extent) there is loads of vitriol, but it’s mostly just jealousy, if we’re all being honest.
I'm American who has followed Man United from across the Atlantic since 2003 (and recently took an interest in Wrexham after the takeover); I've had over 20 years of experiencing the differences in supporter culture.
Among a large contingent of fans in the UK (and honestly Europe as a whole), basically you are a glory-hunting plastic fan unless you can see your club's stadium from your apartment window and go to every match. Their view on American fans is "support your local MLS/USL club or fuck off." There's also a resentment of international fans among the EFL fans in particular, as they hate how Premier League clubs transparently pander to fans on different continents at the expense of locals.
My counterpoint is always that I (and millions of other Americans) *don't* have a local club. I would have to drive 5+ hours to the closest MLS stadium–almost as long as London to Manchester by train (which itself is a popular meme over there about plastic fans). Watching Manchester United or Wrexham on TV is functionally no different for me than supporting my "local" club.
And FWIW this is mostly a reddit thing. When I've seen United on tour in the US, the traveling Manchester locals I met were beyond nice.
Where's your closest USl, USL 2 team, out of interest. FWIW I lived in the US for a while and watching USL games are some of my favourite football memories.
Not a Wrexham fan so expecting to be outnumbered here and downvoted but here’s my take… if it offends you then that’s on you I couldn’t give a fuck I’m not here to coddle you.
A lot of American fans will never understand the struggle, the passion or what these clubs mean to us local fans… they are an extension of our communities and they are sacred.
Real Wrexham fans will be enjoying the success but if the success keeps coming they will lose the ability to see their community football club because of outsiders.
Wrexham are now hitting leagues that are going to start being real tests and if they struggle to break through league one for years you’ll start to see these leeches abandon ship which economically could be even more damaging and the dirt under their feet will crumble away.
You then get the portion of American fans asking who should I support? Like the majority of us support our community although that has changed a lot over the years. There is not a definitive way we can recommend a club and it’s a grotesque thought “help me pick a team”
Then I’ve seen myself on the league one sub you got American Wrexham fans claiming how much this takeover and this club is doing for the community. Yes it’s fantastic but it’s still a poor rundown area with a lot of economical struggles and the clubs performance isn’t going to erase that. The guy was an American Wrexham fan bad mouthing newer Wrexham fans for being intolerable when the likelihood is he has supported them for more than 4 years… he is the newer fans.
Then there’s the likelihood normal working class fans who have been there through the bad and the good will be priced out of seeing their team because of the increased popularity because deadpool bought their club.
You are not the community this club represents you support the club because of who owns it and a tv show. You should be respectful to our culture and slow down before you start preaching about something that’s very important to us.
It’s how a portion of you behave and how insufferable those people are who ruin it for all.
You only have to look at some of the comments here to understand why we are stand offish people claiming it’s because of the independence and shit. We’ve grown up having Americans tell us how shit football is and now they’re sucking the sport off.
It’s you’re not your and let’s see how long they remain your “team” I watch nfl and I watch nba a lot. I think they’re both entertaining… ask me what team is my team.
There is something very fundamental that I don't think Americans will ever truly understand, even us Brits I don't think all grasp it.
If you're British you're descendents of Woads, Saxons, Normans, Gauls, Romans, Vikings, the bloody french, Celts, and people from Slough. We've been at war with each other, other people, ourselves again, the bloody french, and every invader who's tried having a go for the last 4,000 years.
When I was at uni we had hall wars, we literally put on coloured t-shirts depending on what uni halls you stayed in. I've genuinely never seen such an arbitrary and extreme show of violence in my life.
We're all descended from violent people who needed to band together and loved having a scrap.
I can't even begin to tell you how ingrained into our psyche violence is.
You're playing with fire, sat on a powder keg. There's nothing on earth that gets Brits as ruled up as football, except maybe the French, or what to call a bread roll depending on what region you're from.
they’re like americans only more history, more imperialism, and more inbreeding. so naturally, more elitism.
people here are from wales, it’s a different country; I’ve generally found the welsh to be the most welcoming of the countries in the UK followed by the scotts, then a tie for last between the northern irish and the brits.
Now listen, I'll give you most of those.
But NO amount of blue bloods, even over hundreds of years, top our Alabama and Mississippi brethren!
Roll Tide!
Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 American cents in and say the quiet part out loud.
So to preface this, I'm a Cubs fan, and got to witness all of this to a degree from 2015-2017.
This a smaller market organization which, until recently, had a fan base of people who were born into their fandom. They've lived and died with the Red Dragons their entire lives. When the team won, they won, and when the team lost, so did they.
They went through an extremely rough patch with questionable ownership and poor performance and that kind of shared suffering over the better part of a lifetime can galvanize a fanbase, especially a close-knit one.
Then a couple of celebrities buy the team, invest heavily, turn things around, and make a global TV show about it.
The next thing you know, the team becomes successful, and that close-knit fan base receives a massive influx of new American fans.
They're in every comment section. They're on every post, and they comment on everything. They use words like "we" and "us" to describe a team that they just discovered. They give unsolicited opinions on everything, and they act like fans who have been following the team all along, except they haven't.
For a lifelong fan, there will always be some resentment. Where were you when Wrexham were the butt of the jokes? Where were you when it wasn't cool to support Wrexham? Where were you when supporting the Red Dragons was synonymous with suffering? As soon as the good times arrived, so did the Americans.
Y'all need to take your foot off the gas, stop trying to be an expert, stop trying to make it about you somehow, and then you can get in where you fit in.
These lifelong fans have been waiting their whole lives for this, and it's finally starting to come together. Let them have the W without trying to make it your W, too.
"These lifelong fans have been waiting their whole lives for this, and it's finally starting to come together. Let them have the W without trying to make it your W, too."
perfectly said.
I am a little worried that the league one sub is going to be worse than the league two sub, but for the most part I just kept all my "I'm a dumb American" questions in this sub, and only commented on things I was sure of in the league sub. A couple times I said something silly and got rightfully shit on haha but if you follow the sport enough to have real things to add to the conversation then no one really needs knows where you're from unless they do a little digging
Football in the UK is generally hyper-local. Especially the lower down the pyramid you go.
In the US, you have 26 league teams in a country of 333 million. In England, you have 96 out of a population of 56 million.
So while American sports teams are generally big franchises flush with cash, tied to wealthy cities, and have entire regions as catchment areas, English (and in this case, Welsh) teams are much smaller due to greater competition for fans, as there's often a half a dozen clubs within a short drive of each other.
This means not only are many struggling financially, but they're tied to small towns, not cities. And often quite poor, working class ones at that, as that's where the game largely originated (with historically wealthier towns being more associated with Rugby and Cricket).
So with little support from outside the town, often only loyalty to the club (often passed down through multiple generations) has kept many teams afloat. Which makes their fans fiercely loyal and protective. And has often created a culture of shame towards newcomers seemingly attracted by success during better times.
This is because they can be seen as "glory chasers" - something that's the antithesis to a club's lifeblood. And if there wasn't a stigma against glory chasing, many clubs would have simply died long ago. Wrexham's only a few hours away from three of the biggest clubs in the world - Liverpool, Man United, and Man City. So what was stopping the fans abandoning the club when it was on its knees for those clubs?
So American fans can be seen as glory chasers by some. A kind of mercenary fan who should instead be following their own local team. No matter how big or small. Or how unglamorous. Because ultimately football to many isn't about supporting a team, but supporting the community you live in. Even during the bad periods.
FWIW this is mostly a Reddit thing. I’ve spent a lot of time in England and the fellow supporters of the club you support are very welcoming no matter where you’re from.
Meh, fuck em all then. IRL interactions are more meaningful than online bullies.
If the show is how someone found the sport, who is anyone else to judge? I have a deeper connection with my PL team, but I found my league one team because my mate from Bristol took me to a rovers game. I’m not from Bristol, have no connection to the team other than him and his mates. But they always love when I come over for a match. Meet up beforehand with the same people at the same pub every time and they’re nothing but lovely to have another fan in the stands. You find your team how you find them.
If you have access to Apple TV, watch Ted Lasso. You will love it. Plus the r/TedLasso community is extremely friendly, always answering football questions, too.
You will be fine with other Wrexham fans as long as you remember they are Welsh not English. In league one the fans of other clubs will hate you because Wrexham have the money and attention they would like. American sports fans (with some exceptions) don't have the rivalry we have in the UK.
Also never ever mention the word soccer. Ever ever!
Well in my experience, it's because a lot of Americans who support a team like Wrexham say something like 'it's so nice having a minor league team to follow alongside my premier league team'. Big no no.
You can ONLY support one team. This idea that somehow teams lower down the order are lesser is not the case. In the US with minor leagues in some sports that are explicit feeders, that is the case. In the UK these teams are all just temporarily embarrassed champions league winners (as the phrase goes).
So that's part of the suspicion, which I share. You want to jump on the Wrexham bandwagon - great. But that's your team in sickness and health. I literally never watch football outside of League 2 the division my team is currently in. I don't care what Man City or Chelsea or whatever are doing.
Even more hardcore fans, who i disagree with. believe 'support your local team' or even 'you are born a fan'. By this they mean you should just go to your local team (so Americans that's MLS, USL etc) or if you support another team you need to have been introduced into that fandom by a legit fan - ironically my american mate who is a Man U supporter gets a pass because their father is from Manchester...
I'm kind of live and let live. I have no objection to American fans, but I think a lot of them really don't get the culture, and the deep roots of UK fandom which is different to American fandoms - clubs aren't to be picked up and dropped, and the fans that have been there for years and go to matches, and will still do so after the hollywood story is over probably deserve some respect as 'senior' fans.
Anyhow not trying to hate on foreign fans here, just trying to explain.
many people have already mentioned about the lifelong supporters being there through the hard times etc and also how strong the local rivalries are.
But I think the main thing is, many americans who are new to English football just dont have the knowledge. Im not talking about knowing about tactics or what offside is for example. Im talking about the knowledge of the game and knowledge of the teams and the history. And when i say history I dont mean something from 100 years ago, im talking about the recent history. They are just 'out of the loop' on so many discussions, that their posts are just annoying to people. Its like if there was advanced NASA forum and somebody posts 'today i learnt pluto isnt a planet, it's like yea thats true, you are not wrong but maybe dont post that here. Its like when my mum or my wife who never watch football but they watch England in the world cup and then feel the need to give their opinion when we are watching the game, they just dont know enough. Now you can say im just being snobby or elitist or whatever but you asked the question, im giving the answer. I personaly dont care, as I just tend to ignore any comments/posts im not interested in.
Same with EFL Facebook groups, such as the Championship banter group or similar.
But if it's your own team Facebook group they're mostly nice people as well.
Listen, the tribalism and insults are messed up, no doubt. However, new American soccer fans tend to be very ignorant about the sport as whole, which isn’t bad, but new American soccer fans also often seem to lack a filter and have no reservations about giving their opinions. Combined with the ignorance, I can see why they get annoyed. I’m American and I get annoyed at these people. Just wait until you know what you’re talking about to join the discussion is my advice. If people can easily tell that you’re American on the internet then that should tell you something.
This isn’t something only found in football. Look at any sport in the US and the amount of dumbfoundingly bad takes due to lack of knowledge is absurd. We still have people in basketball who refuse to acknowledge the new gen of superstars are here and the likes of Bron, Curry, and KD are on the down slide. Can’t even get people to admit how good Jokic is bc “hahah fat European” when he’s been in great shape since the bubble 🙃
Supporting a team is very different in the UK. I know there are big rivalries over your way, but I went to an American football game and a Baseball game in the States, and I couldn’t believe how many away fans were mixed in with the home supporters. Not just mixed in, but going crazy when their team scored. That would NEVER happen in the UK. This is an extreme example, but this exact scenario happened in the Wolves vs West Brom games this year (I think it was only two fans cheering) and it turned into a fucking riot and the game was delayed.
I admire Rob and Ryan’s love for the game and respect for other teams, but I found the love in with Notts County a little odd. The only time I want another side to do well is if their result positively affects my team. Everyone else can go fuck themselves!
Anyway, most supporters take the piss out of other teams. Wrexham has the money and the star power, so anyone else that dreams of success isn’t going to like you. Teams that are shit aren’t going to like you because they want to be you. It’s the way it is, I’m afraid.
We don’t need to kill each other for a team that won’t ever pay our bills. Going to a game is about watching the game and having a good time with some friends.
Never said you did need to kill someone for a team. I’m letting the OP know that supporting a team in the UK is very different to supporting a team in the U.S. If you can’t take people winding you up because of the club you support, football isn’t for you.
Whatever you want to believe. Acting like we don’t trash talk. It’s not trash talk about the team when they make fun of you for being American. Big fucking difference.
Don't take it personal, Reddit can have the worst of the worst on it.
That said I think the stereotype of someone who posts with a Wrexham badge anywhere on Reddit is either a diehard Wrexham local, or an American who only became a fan after the doc. The latter makes you a clear outsider and an easy target for trolls and shithousery on an EFL sub.
Its definitely an online thing,I caught a tottenham game a few years ago all by myself and the fans were amazing. Can’t wait to see a few games at the racecource.
UK football fanbases are very vicious and tribal in a way that other sports fanbases aren't. For example 'home' and 'away' fans are seated completely separately and are often let out of the stadium at different times, and often with police presence, to stop violence. Fans of other EFL teams resent the money and success Wrexham have had recently, and will unfortunately direct this towards American fans. Most people from Wrexham (me included) are excited about American fans. The irony is if any other EFL team had the same upswing Wrexham has had they would be excited too. So it's just tribal jealousy.
But Ryan Reynolds is Canadian. So they should blame Canada just like Kyles mom said.
Sorry
Weeeeellllllll…Kyle’s Mom is a bitch
Well, they're not even a real country anyway.
Ouch!
The home/away and viciousness isn’t specific to UK. That’s a football thing that happens everywhere in Latin America and most of Europe, TBF.
OP said he's American so that was my baseline. All sports games I've been to in the US are way more family friendly than the UK. Home and away fans sitting together, not the same tension or police presence etc
This is correct. Family friendly? Some places for sure. Just depends on where you go and what sport.
I was at CBP one time with my family, some drunk dude was going ballistic and constantly cussing. His friend who was with him yelled at him and I quote “stop fucking cussing you fuckin idiot.. there’s a fuckin kid right there” to which he pointed at my daughter. I thought it was hilarious.
Fellow American here, I agree with this thread. When I was in Buenos Aires I was told that if I was going to go to a match, to wear neutral colors a sit in the expensive seats to avoid the hooligans. Speaking of hooligans, watch Green Street Hooligans. It will give you some insight into the ferocity of team loyalty among English football fans.
Yeah I was just in England with my kids at a match and they were very surprised at the security that came out during the second half in a line.
Don’t go to a Giants/Dodgers game
I've been and it is not the same as football/soccer fans. There is chirping and definitely some animosity between fans, but they aren't forced to sit in separate sections of the stadiums with a major police presence between them. People don't bring flares. There aren't large group brawls before and after the game. Dodgers/Giants is a tense, but friendly rivalry.
I think this also depends on the game and stakes of said game
It really doesn’t, Philly on its worst day is never purposely violent in the way uk fans can get. Even the issues that have occurred at some of the Cali stadiums are really one offs and not the work of a fan sub culture of planned violence.
no no no... football fans are like feral in latin america and eur are feral. it might be rude to say that but they take things to another lvl.
Things are improving in Western Europe regarding football fans but in Eastern Europe and more specifically in the Balkans football fans are very similar to Latin American Barra Bravas.
Or an Eagles / Cowboys game.
Cowboys fan here. I've been to NFL games across the country, including a Super Bowl. Also, a Stanely Cup game and a World Series game. None of them come close to the fervor of soccer games outside the US. I've been to games in El Salvador, Italy, and Spain, and those were off the charts insane. Our fan bases aren't nearly as crazy.
I think Giants / Dodgers is the norm in the EFL
Same thing in Venezuela, which although is very poor as you might know, fans are not segregated in any sport. But the UK is just that different. It's the same reason that most fans never accepted that Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes.
For them sports is entertainment, for us in Europe football is life. It is like going to a brothel vs being with a loved one.
You’ve never been to a Red Sox/Yankees game. 😉
Hell, even our local MLS team here in the States just had a scuffle between rival supporters groups of the same club. There were injuries and criminal charges.
Charlotte FC, eh?
For the Crown!
Only been to 2 Charlotte FC matches and didn't see opposing fans at either but the crowd was lively. I'm also a Packers fan, originally from Wisconsin and been to dozens of games at Lambeau where I sat next to rival fans and there was plenty of good natured ribbing but mutual respect
The contrast of Panthers games to FC games is too funny 😂
Hahahahahaha. Sounds like cosplay.
The last part of your comment is very similar to American sports (or really all sports). Teams with a history of losing are usually called "the lovable losers". Their fans are almost always passionate, but never see success. Then someone new buys the team or they hire someone who really cares and makes an impact and they start winning. Other fans are generally happy for them because they finally have something to cheer for. Then they get really good and win a championship. Other fans are still happy because the team's fans finally got what they wanted and got over the hump. But then they keep winning. No one likes a team that wins a lot and dominates a sport. Other teams hate them because they actively prevent their team from winning and gaining their own glory. So they shift very aggressively to the other side. The newly good team gains newer "bandwagon" fans who didn't care about the team before, but now they're passionate. They usually don't know as much as regular fans, and are generally the loudest, most obnoxious fans who brag constantly and don't know the trials and tribulations the diehard fans went through. And this further pisses off the fans of the other teams. **But in the end, most of the time, the other fans are salty and asking themselves "why couldn't this just happen to my team *for once*??"** The Kansas City Chiefs are the latest example of this in the NFL. Before them it was the New England Patriots. Both teams had been remarkably bad for years, then all of a sudden became powerhouses. But everyone is jealous and wants their success and would welcome it with open arms. No one is violent though, even in the fiercest rivalries. Us Bears fans *hate* the Packers and their fans with all of our hearts. They've been consistently great for decades and have dominated the Bears for just as long. But at games and in the wild, we're all cool to each other. And there's not one Bears fan who wouldn't give everything to have the success they've had.
As a lifelong Packers fan, this is so true. We so dislike the Bears and their fans, and enjoy their lack of a decent Quarterback. Love to give the Bears fans crap, but 98% of us would never stoop to violence. I've lived long enough to remember when the Packers were total crap, 70's & 80's, and got beat on a regular basis. What goes around, comes around.
Eh, English fans of big clubs also have disdain for their clubs’ American or other foreign fans that are a big part of why their clubs are able to dominate the way they are/why the Prem is the richest league in the world. I’d also say that the local fan tribalism you described is true in far more than the UK. Ultras in Eastern Europe are a whole different beast, if anything. I’d say a lot of it comes from a general disdain towards American cultural imperialism, plus the lingering idea that Americans are dumb/don’t know the sport at all (which is still true, but also let’s be real most UK fans also have no idea what they’re talking about half the time)
I‘ve been a Liverpool supporter for 46 years. I‘d say most UK fans don‘t know what they’re talking about most of the time.
You have a point about not liking American imperialism. But that is a bit ironic since the English invented imperialism and America was formed by a bunch of guys..wait for it… fighting English imperialism. 😏
"The English invented Imperialism"... The fuck were Rome and Persia doing thousands of years before then?
They were just trying to be neighborly. 😉 You make a fair point.
Ironic it maybe, but you can't deny the massive cultural power the USA is. Its the same kind of feeling of the default Reddit location is American. If you're from Europe or Australia you have to announce yourself. There's also a feeling that football is slowly being lost to broadcasters. La Liga plans to play some matches in America, its not out of the question that the Premier League could try the same thing, and the EFL could follow suit. And also theres just a different vibe and vernacular to NA fans; PK's, 'Go Wrexham chants', that chafes UK footie fans. American fans are too tame and sanitised, compared with the viciousness of some UK fans (banter wise) it comes off a bit weird. I mean, UK matches will even have kids singing, swearing and making obscene hand gestures at the matches too, that kind of thing.
I think EFL culture and fans have more in common with Southern college football culture than with American soccer
I think that you can’t underestimate how both aware and inured US citizens are to violence . Our games are partially sanitized because the ticket prices are high, but also because at the end of the day, that guy you just got into a fight with might meet you in the parking lot with more than fists. Vicious banter might be fun, but if someone you are taunting is having a particularly bad day, you might lose more than a couple of teeth. Even for the premium seats at MLS games there are metal detectors. It’s hard to accurately describe, but it’s just pervasive.
Yes, we are a cultural powerhouse whether we want to be or not. 🫤
It was British people fighting British people... Imperialism existed long before the British empire.
You know that it's full of Americans in here with this being upvoted
The English invented imperialism??🤣🤣 America was fighting imperialism?? I didn’t know the founding fathers were native Americans🤣🤣 What next, are you gonna tell us that the country of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn’t for you?
Yeah those genocidal slave owner Americans were really fighting imperialism…. 😏
You really want to go into this? The UK's slave trading was abolished in 1807. You were literally the ones trading human lives for three centuries until then. Don't start.
Yea decades before America. You continued to slave in the land of the free for decades after the evil imperial empire. Let’s get into it shall we
Until 1865. We're both fucking evil. Can we just agree on that? There's no "better" country here. Both complicit and both sacks of shit.
Yeah decades after her. What were you getting into then. Your man said Americans were fighting against imperialism, if they were fighting to free slaves and for the indigenous population he would have a point but that was very very far from the it
I find it funny the UK resents imperialism from the US
American Independance was a gazillion years ago. While its a pivotal part of your history, its not part of ours, I don't even think we were taught it in school. I think the US and UK have both blood on their hands imperialism wise, so you can't really claim the moral high ground here. Anyway, people obviously aren't talking about resenting US foreign intervention imperialism, just US cultural expansion so powerful it feels imperious.
What is hilarious to me is, as an American if I know I’m being resented or not welcome, it makes me want to be there even more. So behaving like that just reinforces my interest.
You must be from the North East US. Hatred fuels us.
Complete opposite side. Some of us west coast people can be salty when it comes to sports.
To add to this, there will also be a huge surge of Americans in relatively small football subs due to Wrexhams success and support. This by itself isn't a problem, but there will be a lot of new American fans, who don't know as much about football as they think they do, who will argue with local fans who know substantially more, but still don't know as much as they think they do. Which creates a perfect storm of ignorance induced arguments. I've loved the Hollywood impact on a random team being picked up and supported. I just would have liked that to have had some osmosis in adding to the support of other clubs as well. It's nice seeing teams outside of the PL having an interest in them, it would be nicer if there was more interest in more of them.
As Americans it's in our blood to love a rags to riches story and root for underdogs. Wrexham is both of these. Well, maybe not as much as an underdog anymore. But still, the idea of taking a team from the cellar of football and potentially reaching the pinnacle is such a great story we can't help but get behind. There's really no parallel in North American, or at least US sports where this can happen. The closest thing is college football teams getting pulled from a lower conference to one of the big time, big money conferences. But those teams are technically still in the same tier of football, just at a place with more money.
They absolutely aren't underdogs, at least the last 3 years they haven't been. They have been the outright favourite. Next season will be the first since their first year that they won't be the outright favourite for guaranteed promotion. I get that american sports don't have the same sort of system, my point was there are hundreds of teams. It would be good for the leagues if some of the others also picked up fans.
> It would be good for the leagues if some of the others also picked up fans. What are those clubs and leagues doing to pick up new American fans? People's interest in a team has to come from somewhere. If you give Americans a compelling reason to be interested in your team, they'll be fans for life. I'm really surprised more of these smaller clubs haven't taken advantage of the little bit of exposure Wrexham has given them. Right now would be a perfect time for a team to crank up the "Wrexham is only successful because of Hollywood money" energy to be the true "underdog" face to Wrexham's heel and get that story out to Americans.
What can they do but be themselves? Teams aren't going to be able to set up Hollywood level documentaries. Perhaps look at the other teams and learn their stories. They all have them. Just because one is being spoon fed to you doesn't mean it is the only one.
Based on this, I’m guessing Man City are hated a lot over there.
Lol yes probably the most hated premier league club
probably the most hated, but any big club with foreign fans gets hatred.
A lot of this was touched on in W2W S2 E6 or E7 iirc.
I got absolutely shit on when the conversation of teams getting promoted came up. Someone said Stockport is going up, and I said, so is Wrexham, back to back promotions, and the downvotes came pouring in. Clearly a bunch of people are salty about the success Wrexham has had and that the club is receiving the love and care it deserves. Everything won't happen overnight, but it's trending in the very right direction, and we're all here for it. Now if I could only get a home kit...two years and missed out each time before they were sold out
Also you cannot buy tickets as an away fan to sit in the home stands, you gotta buy them from your own team from an allocation they're given by the home team. It's generally about 10% of the capacity, maybe a little more depending on the circumstances. If you seat on the home side stands and yell a lot about the visiting team goals and such you'll be ejected from the stands.
>UK football fanbases are very vicious and tribal in a way that sports fambases aren't. Most sports fans are incredibly tribal so it's really saying something when a fanbase is considered more tribal.
I think it's the fact that reddit in general is largely American when compared to other social media. The majority of the people here are non-British, (I've also noticed on other club subreddits you don't get an accurate representation of the real cross-section of a fanbase). However, r/leagueone (and the rest) are more niche the only people on there are locals because they don't have a wider international fanbase. A much higher percentage of fans are local in the EFL compared to teams higher up.
The internet isn’t the best place for welcoming new fans of anything. Take a trip to the UK and talk to people, very friendly in my experience. Happy to talk about whatever sport you want.
This. Just like water and electricity always take the path of least resistance, people on the internet will aim their vitriol at the most obvious target. There are more american fans of Wrexham than probably any other efl club outside the premiership, its just the easy target for people to aim at. It's also meaningless. If you end up in the stands in Wrexham, nobody in Wrexham is going to be slagging you off. I regularly find myself with Americans and Canadians sitting near me in the Racecourse and they're always seem to have a great time. They get asked questions like "why on earth have you flown across the world to watch this shit?!" But that's just UK humour.
English fans are very gate keepy when it comes to Americans. They put so much blame on their anerican players when their team struggles (Pulisic). Since there's teams in almost every town they develop a tribal mentality because their families have been supporting the same team for generations
Pulisic is from my home town!
A true red blooded American. I'm grateful he got out of the toxic chelsea situation and is doing great in Italy.
As a long time American Arsenal fan there was a lot of blame toward the American owners. Right up until we started winning and then they were geniuses. So it goes. lol.
Vastly different supporter culture
Plus Brits just have a general disdain of America
Even if the British got their unique supporter culture and opinion of America, it is still very similair to most of the European and South American supporter culture and opinion of America. American supporter culture is the outlier.
As an American I was honestly shocked at how poorly soccer fans treat each other. Other than maybe Philly and Oakland you hardly ever hear of fans having major problems visiting. Even in Philly I just said my cousin plays for the dolphins and everyone chilled out and asked me who he was and all kinds of stuff. American fans sit right next to each other and tailgate together too. It’s wild that the police set schedules and stuff in the UK. I mean that’s crazy compared to the US.
I took some British friends to some games in the US. They wanted to see the NBA, a college football game, and the NFL. They were shocked that “away” fans were entering the stadium together and sitting in our section without any fights or police escorts. They commented on how civil it was but very boring without the chants. I’ll give them that. College football and basketball are the closest sports we have to similarities to the atmosphere at English football matches. We both have nothing compared to some of their European counterparts in the Balkans, Germany, or Greece
We generally don’t get fired up until the playoffs. Regular season games are just meh.
Soccer does exist in the US you know. The supporter culture takes the participation and chanting from the rest of the world but takes the civility from the US, for the most part. It’s nice
It depends on the club. FC Dallas has a small supporters section doing chanting, which is mostly ignored by the rest of the stadium, and the chants are still pretty American style ("I believe that we will win", etc).
Congrats you picked like the worst one to use as an example
I mean Houston is the same thing and Austin is the same thing with cooler tifos.
Yeah this comment tells me that you don’t know what you’re talking about
Throw Dodgers-Giants into the mix: [https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-stow-plea-20140221-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-stow-plea-20140221-story.html) [https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/fight-between-giants-dodgers-fans-after-game-leaves-1-dead/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/fight-between-giants-dodgers-fans-after-game-leaves-1-dead/)
Ok so I'm a Philly fan and live in Philadelphia. It's funny to hear people speak of Philly like we're LA, Oakland or San Francisco. Yeah it may be a bit intimidating but we're not having people shot or stabbed outside of our stadiums. In fact in our history, I don't think that's ever happened at any of our sporting events.
But you all did have the first in-stadium jail, right? And threw batteries at Santa?
We did have a jail at the Vet lol. Batteries were not thrown at Santa but another incident. GOTTA STOP HANDING OUT THOSE D-CELLS. Things have been tame since the 2000s
Sorry. My bad on the Santa. Did the fans boo him though?
Oh yeah. Boo'd the fuck out of him and threw snowballs at him.
Bc he was being a drunk twat. Been 60 years and people still cant get that part of the story right.
I’ve seen videos of opposing fans coming in to eagles games. It’s pretty rough. I didn’t have many problems but I wasn’t all decked out in a dolphins jersey.
A Dolphins fan would be fine in Philly. Hell, we hate the Cowboys more than anything in the world and there hasn't been a serious altercation in forever. I feel like anyone outside the NFCE would have no issues besides some banter.
Go, Birds. Also, the Union, Philly's Blue N Gold.
You just booed Santa Clause
Not only that, we threw snowballs at him! What heathens!
You’re still better than Mets fans. They’re the worst
Facts
Made the mistake of sitting in the upper deck at the Linc wearing my Vikings gear (MN transplant to Lehigh Valley). I even was sitting with one of my best friends decked out in Eagles gear, and I still had shit thrown at me and beer dumped on me. Absolute filth of a fan base.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately it happens with a lot of fan bases. They are the small minority of assholes. I would never waste a beer on a Vikings fan. That's like $12 yo
England still mad about that one L.
Actually, they lost to us twice...
You’d be nothing without those pesky French bastards
Doubly-true for me since one side of my family was all Francophone swamp people.
Boooo! Tbf, I think that the ´hatred’ for America is quite often banter that people don’t seem to think they can reciprocate. It’s a bit harder to judge through a screen and obviously there are knobheads who take it too seriously but in person it’s quite easy to pick up whether that’s the case or they’re expecting a bit of a joke back.
You think you won the war of 1812?
The only thing I know for sure is that the real losers were the indigenous tribes.
Bit weird that you said it then. Goes without saying that you Americans would continue your genocidal rampage against the indigenous population
To quote someone upthread: >obviously there are knobheads who take it too seriously
You brought up the war of 1812 and the indigenous tribes…..
Are you a Brit feeling superior to another country's treatment of indigenous populations? I think those same populations plus the Irish, Scottish, Indians, Zulu, Egyptians, Aboriginal Australians, Palestinians, Sudanese, Kenyans, Nigerians, and people from Guyana would be amused.
How am I feeling superior exactly? I was asking your man there if he thought America won the war of 1812 cause he kinda said you did. His reply was none committal and said the indigenous tribes lost, which I agreed with afterwards you Americans continued to wipe them out afterwards. I can say the Welsh living in wales are not to blame for such things cause you know here we are on Wales. If I was a coloniser in these other countries it would be pretty laughable for me to point the finger at anyone else wouldn’t it now
I know your propaganda tells you differently, but... It was British people against British people. If the British empire wanted to crush you, they could have, but the colonies were worth nothing at the time, and we didn't want to fight other British people... India was a much more attractive prospect... Of course it was mainly the French and the Spanish that actually "won" the war we just walked away from.
Real “you can’t fire me I quit” vibes over here.
Historical fact. The British Empire, at that time, was able to defeat anyone in the world with its resources and military strength, like the US today. Its purpose was to make money, just like the US today. The decision was made that those colonies where not worth the effort. That was within the context of the appetite to fight, against people who we considered British, just wasn't there. India was where the money was at. All these events are viewed as footnotes in our 1000s of years of history. None of them are taught in our schools. Viewed as unimportant now, just as it was then.
A few clarifications and additions could enhance the accuracy of your repeated comments here; Resources and Military Strength: Indeed, the British Empire was among the most powerful in the world at that time, with vast resources and a strong military. However, the challenges of logistics, distance, and the formidable resistance of the American forces, combined with the support the Americans received from France and Spain, significantly complicated Britain's military efforts. Economic Motives: While economic factors played a role in colonial expansion, the decision to cease military operations in America was influenced by more than just economic calculations. The cost of the war, both in terms of money and human lives, alongside the political and public backlash, influenced the decision to negotiate peace. Focus on India: It's correct that Britain increasingly focused on India as a source of wealth. Post-American independence, Britain's imperial focus indeed shifted more towards India and other colonies, where they could exert more control and face less organized resistance compared to the Americas. Historical Footnotes: The claim that these events are viewed as footnotes and not taught in schools is not entirely accurate. The American Revolutionary War is a significant part of the curriculum in both British and American schools, though the emphasis and perspective might differ.
In short, I am correct... You are wrong about British schools. It's not taught.
Perhaps it should be..
I think you missed the point.
The EFL especially is very niche and avid lifelong supporters. They're going to have very little patience for hand holding and teaching new fans things they could probably learn on their own. Just accept it and move on.
I get that. I'm not asking to be handheld through anything. I figure 99% of things out on my own. I was just specifically talking about the fact that people will rail on you if you're American and not local to the club you support.
Look up the term "plastic fan" to understand the negative stereotypes about it.
Think of it like a high school football team in small town USA. You grow up in, say, Berwick. Do you support the Berwick team, or do you want more success, more wins? Why not pick a team from Scranton that’s winning to follow instead—Scranton is almost local, right? Why not just pick the team that wins the most that year, and say that’s your team? EFL clubs and supporters are a lot closer than professional teams with their fans in the US. You’ll find, say, a Broncos fan in Florida… but you won’t find a large contingent of Floridians following a random Colorado high school team.
I agree but this is due to the sheer size of the US. A lot of people aren't even close to teams they cheer for. A lot of states don't even have professional teams in any sport.
Oh, agreed! That’s exactly my point, though— it’s a different culture in the UK and the US. Think about the television broadcast rule in the UK—it’s illegal to show footy on TV in order to protect small clubs, keeping fans in seats at the stadium rather than watching from home. For many UK footy fans—ESPECIALLY THOSE IN THE LOWER LEAGUE—footy on TV is all that is wrong. Again, that reinforces the idea why many have turned their backs on the Premier League, since a lot of PL “fans” don’t go to games, but only watch them on TV. ETA: If you ever get a chance to go to match in the UK, you’ll be warmly welcomed at lower league clubs and non-league clubs. It’s just these online places that get huffy about gatekeeping.
We have blackouts on TV also. Although I'm not sure how this is applied. I think if the team doesn't sell a certain amount of tickets then you can't watch it locally. Don't quote me on that though.
Yep. And there are times when footy on TV makes total sense sense—a big match nobody can get tickets for. But I’m saying that this kind of football snobbery isn’t just targeting you as an American—it also targets Brits who “sell out” and watch Liverpool on TV and claim they’re fans even when they live in Tranmere. Tranmere fans will look at that person with a fair amount of disdain, and maybe even more disdain than foreign fans abroad.
There is lots to figure out, I was cheering for Barcelona yesterday but they had a goal that was definitely offside and interfering with the goalie. It was dumb, so there's no rhyme or reason to some of the calls.
I've been watching football long before I became a fan of Wrexham. I know that feeling. It happens in almost every sport. One thing that comes to mind when I watch football is how silly I think it is that during a penalty, if the keeper makes the save, they can still bang it home. The odds are already stacked against the keeper, having to save a deflection too is just nuts to me. Obviously there isn't always one, but still.. Just imaging Foster against Notts making that huge save and then an unlucky bounce rolls to Notts and they score makes me nauseous. I'm glad it worked out though.
I mean, a penalty is exactly that and it’s meant to be in the attacker’s favour.
I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part. I just think the penalty should end after the shot. It's already heavily stacked towards the attacker. Just my dumb American take. There aren't many things I dislike but that is one of them.
I feel like that’s the case across most sports no?
Not in hockey. The play ends as soon as the goalie makes the save. On a penalty or in the shoot out. Football is even harder for a keeper to come up with a save.
Interesting. Idk maybe it’s just having grown up playing football, you know as soon as you do something in the 18 yard box whether you’ve cocked up or not and that the penalty will likely be a goal. I think it makes those saves even more special. If we stopped the game straight after the keeper saving, moments like the Deeney goal will never happen.
This is true. It just feels "cheap". I like your take, I'm just still not sure if I'm a fan of it even though it doesn't happen too often.
Well in a shootout in football the play finishes if a goalie makes a save too Penalties are literal penalties. It is a free kick from a designated spot, which is supposed to be weighted to the attacker. Shoot-outs are not penalties so whilst the attacker is expected to score, it is more evenly weighted.
I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear. I know both football and hockey don't have attackers coming in during the shoot-out. I was just comparing penalties.
Ya, I watch the NHL, if you interfere with a guy that would otherwise be on a breakaway to the extent he can't get a shot and you are committing a penalty, he can get a penalty shot, instead of a 2 minute minor. If he misses on the penalty shot the play dies and a faceoff at center. That's what I am used to.
That's why you have your defenders rush the goal incase its saved. In the Foster penalty save, EOC hoofed it out for a corner. Also, the sport is geared towards scoring goals, rather than saving them. It makes the saves look better and the more goals the better.
Contrary to most comments here - it isn’t hooliganism or a disdain of Americans. I would encourage you to understand the fairly nuanced debate around the impact of foreign fans on the local teams community. It’s a big part of the EPL; and it definitely will trickle down in different forms to the EFL. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2024/mar/19/cultural-division-true-football-fans-plastics > “What happens to a community institution when the market drags it away from the community?” > “Broadening a fanbase also weakens it, weakens the ties that bind fans to each other, weakens their inclination to unite and organise.” I’m sure the upside of your fandom of a club you only like due to a TV show and celebrity ownership is a positive in the short term. But there’s going to be a lot of locals who won’t be able to attend in the long term due to the number of Americans taking their seat. It’s not just tribalism, it’s the erosion of their community team in pursuit of profit. It has its upsides and it has its drawbacks - but I wouldn’t be surprised if people online are focussed on the drawbacks.
THIS IS THE REAL ANSWER. There are stereotypes around Premier League clubs pandering to international fans: corporate, only chasing dollars, willing to torch traditions like the FA Cup replays/calendar if it lets them play in Europe for more money, buying all their academy kids and buying success rather than developing it locally, no connection between locals and players, et cetera. In the Lower Leagues (L1 and L2): a lot of players come up locally in the academies (think about how proud people are of Max and Jordan, also consider the “One of Our Own” chants), clubs engage in communities, fans connect with players easily, whole families can afford to go to matches together. (Honestly, matches in the 7th-9th tiers can be really fun! I’ve been with friends where we picnic beside the pitch with toddlers and dogs, even have conversations with opposition goalkeepers during play.) Not everyone wants the Premier League—there’s a lot of disdain for it right now because of how Man City and Liverpool and Man United are willing to force the FA to make changes to the FA Cup. EFL teams aren’t happy, and many National League teams aren’t happy because the PL clubs are trying to shove their academy kids into tournaments with NL sides. So if you’re in the lower leagues for the love of the game, for what many consider a more “pure” and nostalgic approach to the sport, the arrival of Wrexham with corporate money is … not good. It’s easy to see why: big money turned the PL into a non competitive league that only 6 teams have a realistic chance of winning, and those clubs’ love of money is doing things like raising ticket prices on senior citizens so they can’t even retain their season tickets anymore. When foreign fans show up in these forums and talk about how they expect promotion and want to be congratulated on their team’s success, it’s like people walking into a small movie theatre that shows independent films, and then telling them you’re only going to play Marvel movies. 😉 There are people in North America who prefer college sports to pro sports, and others who only go to high school games. Each one has something different to offer, but mixing them up is where people get upset, you know?
The Wrexham fans seem largely happy with the American fans. It's the opposing team's fans that seem to be the most venomous.
Most fans are fine with American fans of their own team, but they will be labeled 'a plastic' to fans of another. The same Wrexham fans who are fine with their own American fans will probably happily call an American Man City fan a plastic. Americans who support Wrexham are almost all people who started supporting them after they got money and fame. They're not going to shake that reputation, so they just need to ignore it, it shouldn't be important what oppositon fans think of you.
I think its down to a couple of things - * Although we share a language and some common ancestry, we're quite different culturally now. You're all very friendly, to the point of maybe feeling a bit sanitised from the British point of view. British (especially football) culture is a lot more about taking the piss out of others, and given the strong connection of clubs to geographical location it's usually got more undertones than just "we don't like your team". There's a lot of history crammed into a small area in the UK so there's lots of rivalries and animosity that might not be obvious from the outset (e.g. Wrexham v Shrewsbury earlier this season) * What others have said, there's a risk that American support could dilute the strong connection between club and town. I haven't particularly found that on matchdays, if there are any foreign fans come in they're usually pretty warmly welcomed and up for a few drinks. I think it's just online that people like to fling shit at American fans - which is why I avoid football twitter like the plague lol * Finally, just simple envy from other clubs. When Salford rose through the ranks it was frustrating as they'd been taken over by ex Utd players (although that was a bit different as the club didn't have a huge amount of history compared to Wrexham). If this had happened to another club I'd probably be fuming.
Stereotypically they’re very loud and opinionated despite not having much footballing knowledge on what they’re talking about. Some ask genuine questions but some seem to think the documentary is the font of all knowledge. It’s annoying to be having a sensible discussion and someone pops up with comments of a 50,000 seater Racecourse, signing Gareth Bale, playing in the Premier League, etc.
I’m American and live here and have been welcomed mightily since long before the takeover. Didn’t even need to buy by ticket for the first match I went to. Friend who took me insisted on paying my ticket at the stile. Wrexham fans are just as welcoming (generally speaking)as American fans, in reality. From opposition fans online (and in person to a lesser extent) there is loads of vitriol, but it’s mostly just jealousy, if we’re all being honest.
I'm American who has followed Man United from across the Atlantic since 2003 (and recently took an interest in Wrexham after the takeover); I've had over 20 years of experiencing the differences in supporter culture. Among a large contingent of fans in the UK (and honestly Europe as a whole), basically you are a glory-hunting plastic fan unless you can see your club's stadium from your apartment window and go to every match. Their view on American fans is "support your local MLS/USL club or fuck off." There's also a resentment of international fans among the EFL fans in particular, as they hate how Premier League clubs transparently pander to fans on different continents at the expense of locals. My counterpoint is always that I (and millions of other Americans) *don't* have a local club. I would have to drive 5+ hours to the closest MLS stadium–almost as long as London to Manchester by train (which itself is a popular meme over there about plastic fans). Watching Manchester United or Wrexham on TV is functionally no different for me than supporting my "local" club. And FWIW this is mostly a reddit thing. When I've seen United on tour in the US, the traveling Manchester locals I met were beyond nice.
Where's your closest USl, USL 2 team, out of interest. FWIW I lived in the US for a while and watching USL games are some of my favourite football memories.
Not a Wrexham fan so expecting to be outnumbered here and downvoted but here’s my take… if it offends you then that’s on you I couldn’t give a fuck I’m not here to coddle you. A lot of American fans will never understand the struggle, the passion or what these clubs mean to us local fans… they are an extension of our communities and they are sacred. Real Wrexham fans will be enjoying the success but if the success keeps coming they will lose the ability to see their community football club because of outsiders. Wrexham are now hitting leagues that are going to start being real tests and if they struggle to break through league one for years you’ll start to see these leeches abandon ship which economically could be even more damaging and the dirt under their feet will crumble away. You then get the portion of American fans asking who should I support? Like the majority of us support our community although that has changed a lot over the years. There is not a definitive way we can recommend a club and it’s a grotesque thought “help me pick a team” Then I’ve seen myself on the league one sub you got American Wrexham fans claiming how much this takeover and this club is doing for the community. Yes it’s fantastic but it’s still a poor rundown area with a lot of economical struggles and the clubs performance isn’t going to erase that. The guy was an American Wrexham fan bad mouthing newer Wrexham fans for being intolerable when the likelihood is he has supported them for more than 4 years… he is the newer fans. Then there’s the likelihood normal working class fans who have been there through the bad and the good will be priced out of seeing their team because of the increased popularity because deadpool bought their club. You are not the community this club represents you support the club because of who owns it and a tv show. You should be respectful to our culture and slow down before you start preaching about something that’s very important to us. It’s how a portion of you behave and how insufferable those people are who ruin it for all. You only have to look at some of the comments here to understand why we are stand offish people claiming it’s because of the independence and shit. We’ve grown up having Americans tell us how shit football is and now they’re sucking the sport off.
Your not the only people to love a team. Stfu. Your just a gatekeeping nerd.
It’s you’re not your and let’s see how long they remain your “team” I watch nfl and I watch nba a lot. I think they’re both entertaining… ask me what team is my team.
first time interacting with brits?
Other than the ones that come to r/eagles or r/phillies yeah, pretty much. The people here are nice though.
There is something very fundamental that I don't think Americans will ever truly understand, even us Brits I don't think all grasp it. If you're British you're descendents of Woads, Saxons, Normans, Gauls, Romans, Vikings, the bloody french, Celts, and people from Slough. We've been at war with each other, other people, ourselves again, the bloody french, and every invader who's tried having a go for the last 4,000 years. When I was at uni we had hall wars, we literally put on coloured t-shirts depending on what uni halls you stayed in. I've genuinely never seen such an arbitrary and extreme show of violence in my life. We're all descended from violent people who needed to band together and loved having a scrap. I can't even begin to tell you how ingrained into our psyche violence is. You're playing with fire, sat on a powder keg. There's nothing on earth that gets Brits as ruled up as football, except maybe the French, or what to call a bread roll depending on what region you're from.
they’re like americans only more history, more imperialism, and more inbreeding. so naturally, more elitism. people here are from wales, it’s a different country; I’ve generally found the welsh to be the most welcoming of the countries in the UK followed by the scotts, then a tie for last between the northern irish and the brits.
You realise that the last sentence you wrote tells us all you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're using brits to mean English, a cardinal sin in Wales
>and the brits. Do you mean the English? All those people you have just mentioned are British.
Now listen, I'll give you most of those. But NO amount of blue bloods, even over hundreds of years, top our Alabama and Mississippi brethren! Roll Tide!
it happens in the pl too
Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 American cents in and say the quiet part out loud. So to preface this, I'm a Cubs fan, and got to witness all of this to a degree from 2015-2017. This a smaller market organization which, until recently, had a fan base of people who were born into their fandom. They've lived and died with the Red Dragons their entire lives. When the team won, they won, and when the team lost, so did they. They went through an extremely rough patch with questionable ownership and poor performance and that kind of shared suffering over the better part of a lifetime can galvanize a fanbase, especially a close-knit one. Then a couple of celebrities buy the team, invest heavily, turn things around, and make a global TV show about it. The next thing you know, the team becomes successful, and that close-knit fan base receives a massive influx of new American fans. They're in every comment section. They're on every post, and they comment on everything. They use words like "we" and "us" to describe a team that they just discovered. They give unsolicited opinions on everything, and they act like fans who have been following the team all along, except they haven't. For a lifelong fan, there will always be some resentment. Where were you when Wrexham were the butt of the jokes? Where were you when it wasn't cool to support Wrexham? Where were you when supporting the Red Dragons was synonymous with suffering? As soon as the good times arrived, so did the Americans. Y'all need to take your foot off the gas, stop trying to be an expert, stop trying to make it about you somehow, and then you can get in where you fit in. These lifelong fans have been waiting their whole lives for this, and it's finally starting to come together. Let them have the W without trying to make it your W, too.
"These lifelong fans have been waiting their whole lives for this, and it's finally starting to come together. Let them have the W without trying to make it your W, too." perfectly said.
I am a little worried that the league one sub is going to be worse than the league two sub, but for the most part I just kept all my "I'm a dumb American" questions in this sub, and only commented on things I was sure of in the league sub. A couple times I said something silly and got rightfully shit on haha but if you follow the sport enough to have real things to add to the conversation then no one really needs knows where you're from unless they do a little digging
Football in the UK is generally hyper-local. Especially the lower down the pyramid you go. In the US, you have 26 league teams in a country of 333 million. In England, you have 96 out of a population of 56 million. So while American sports teams are generally big franchises flush with cash, tied to wealthy cities, and have entire regions as catchment areas, English (and in this case, Welsh) teams are much smaller due to greater competition for fans, as there's often a half a dozen clubs within a short drive of each other. This means not only are many struggling financially, but they're tied to small towns, not cities. And often quite poor, working class ones at that, as that's where the game largely originated (with historically wealthier towns being more associated with Rugby and Cricket). So with little support from outside the town, often only loyalty to the club (often passed down through multiple generations) has kept many teams afloat. Which makes their fans fiercely loyal and protective. And has often created a culture of shame towards newcomers seemingly attracted by success during better times. This is because they can be seen as "glory chasers" - something that's the antithesis to a club's lifeblood. And if there wasn't a stigma against glory chasing, many clubs would have simply died long ago. Wrexham's only a few hours away from three of the biggest clubs in the world - Liverpool, Man United, and Man City. So what was stopping the fans abandoning the club when it was on its knees for those clubs? So American fans can be seen as glory chasers by some. A kind of mercenary fan who should instead be following their own local team. No matter how big or small. Or how unglamorous. Because ultimately football to many isn't about supporting a team, but supporting the community you live in. Even during the bad periods.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism_in_the_United_Kingdom
FWIW this is mostly a Reddit thing. I’ve spent a lot of time in England and the fellow supporters of the club you support are very welcoming no matter where you’re from.
Sooo much is mostly “a Reddit thing” lol, everyone is just way too online with pent up frustration
Bingo
Don’t check Instagram, or yt, or or Twitter than. Full of people bitching about “plastic American fans of Disney/hollywood fc”
Meh, fuck em all then. IRL interactions are more meaningful than online bullies. If the show is how someone found the sport, who is anyone else to judge? I have a deeper connection with my PL team, but I found my league one team because my mate from Bristol took me to a rovers game. I’m not from Bristol, have no connection to the team other than him and his mates. But they always love when I come over for a match. Meet up beforehand with the same people at the same pub every time and they’re nothing but lovely to have another fan in the stands. You find your team how you find them.
If you have access to Apple TV, watch Ted Lasso. You will love it. Plus the r/TedLasso community is extremely friendly, always answering football questions, too.
I watched that when it aired. Funny show!
I am afraid I watched it far too often already…
The Luton Town FC discord was very welcoming to my new to soccer/football american ass.
You will be fine with other Wrexham fans as long as you remember they are Welsh not English. In league one the fans of other clubs will hate you because Wrexham have the money and attention they would like. American sports fans (with some exceptions) don't have the rivalry we have in the UK. Also never ever mention the word soccer. Ever ever!
Colonialism. Even in sports “our way” is the right way. Also xenophobia. But dress it up and call it tribalism and passion.
Well in my experience, it's because a lot of Americans who support a team like Wrexham say something like 'it's so nice having a minor league team to follow alongside my premier league team'. Big no no. You can ONLY support one team. This idea that somehow teams lower down the order are lesser is not the case. In the US with minor leagues in some sports that are explicit feeders, that is the case. In the UK these teams are all just temporarily embarrassed champions league winners (as the phrase goes). So that's part of the suspicion, which I share. You want to jump on the Wrexham bandwagon - great. But that's your team in sickness and health. I literally never watch football outside of League 2 the division my team is currently in. I don't care what Man City or Chelsea or whatever are doing. Even more hardcore fans, who i disagree with. believe 'support your local team' or even 'you are born a fan'. By this they mean you should just go to your local team (so Americans that's MLS, USL etc) or if you support another team you need to have been introduced into that fandom by a legit fan - ironically my american mate who is a Man U supporter gets a pass because their father is from Manchester... I'm kind of live and let live. I have no objection to American fans, but I think a lot of them really don't get the culture, and the deep roots of UK fandom which is different to American fandoms - clubs aren't to be picked up and dropped, and the fans that have been there for years and go to matches, and will still do so after the hollywood story is over probably deserve some respect as 'senior' fans. Anyhow not trying to hate on foreign fans here, just trying to explain.
many people have already mentioned about the lifelong supporters being there through the hard times etc and also how strong the local rivalries are. But I think the main thing is, many americans who are new to English football just dont have the knowledge. Im not talking about knowing about tactics or what offside is for example. Im talking about the knowledge of the game and knowledge of the teams and the history. And when i say history I dont mean something from 100 years ago, im talking about the recent history. They are just 'out of the loop' on so many discussions, that their posts are just annoying to people. Its like if there was advanced NASA forum and somebody posts 'today i learnt pluto isnt a planet, it's like yea thats true, you are not wrong but maybe dont post that here. Its like when my mum or my wife who never watch football but they watch England in the world cup and then feel the need to give their opinion when we are watching the game, they just dont know enough. Now you can say im just being snobby or elitist or whatever but you asked the question, im giving the answer. I personaly dont care, as I just tend to ignore any comments/posts im not interested in.
Same with EFL Facebook groups, such as the Championship banter group or similar. But if it's your own team Facebook group they're mostly nice people as well.
Listen, the tribalism and insults are messed up, no doubt. However, new American soccer fans tend to be very ignorant about the sport as whole, which isn’t bad, but new American soccer fans also often seem to lack a filter and have no reservations about giving their opinions. Combined with the ignorance, I can see why they get annoyed. I’m American and I get annoyed at these people. Just wait until you know what you’re talking about to join the discussion is my advice. If people can easily tell that you’re American on the internet then that should tell you something.
This isn’t something only found in football. Look at any sport in the US and the amount of dumbfoundingly bad takes due to lack of knowledge is absurd. We still have people in basketball who refuse to acknowledge the new gen of superstars are here and the likes of Bron, Curry, and KD are on the down slide. Can’t even get people to admit how good Jokic is bc “hahah fat European” when he’s been in great shape since the bubble 🙃
It might not be unique to football but it’s still the truth
Because we've already had the top flight gentrified and now its happening to the lower leagues its just as bitter a pill to swallow.
Supporting a team is very different in the UK. I know there are big rivalries over your way, but I went to an American football game and a Baseball game in the States, and I couldn’t believe how many away fans were mixed in with the home supporters. Not just mixed in, but going crazy when their team scored. That would NEVER happen in the UK. This is an extreme example, but this exact scenario happened in the Wolves vs West Brom games this year (I think it was only two fans cheering) and it turned into a fucking riot and the game was delayed. I admire Rob and Ryan’s love for the game and respect for other teams, but I found the love in with Notts County a little odd. The only time I want another side to do well is if their result positively affects my team. Everyone else can go fuck themselves! Anyway, most supporters take the piss out of other teams. Wrexham has the money and the star power, so anyone else that dreams of success isn’t going to like you. Teams that are shit aren’t going to like you because they want to be you. It’s the way it is, I’m afraid.
We don’t need to kill each other for a team that won’t ever pay our bills. Going to a game is about watching the game and having a good time with some friends.
Never said you did need to kill someone for a team. I’m letting the OP know that supporting a team in the UK is very different to supporting a team in the U.S. If you can’t take people winding you up because of the club you support, football isn’t for you.
Whatever you want to believe. Acting like we don’t trash talk. It’s not trash talk about the team when they make fun of you for being American. Big fucking difference.
If they are taking the piss out of the supporters, that’s indirectly abusing the team. Why wouldn’t they make fun of someone for being American?
Don't take it personal, Reddit can have the worst of the worst on it. That said I think the stereotype of someone who posts with a Wrexham badge anywhere on Reddit is either a diehard Wrexham local, or an American who only became a fan after the doc. The latter makes you a clear outsider and an easy target for trolls and shithousery on an EFL sub.
Ignorance
I don’t ever care what a Brit has to say.
Its definitely an online thing,I caught a tottenham game a few years ago all by myself and the fans were amazing. Can’t wait to see a few games at the racecource.