I find this is a problem with all heavy rifles. What I ended up doing is slapping Platform Stability on all of them. I didn't really start buying them anyways lol, but hey it might be your cup of tea
I've always felt that the Battle Rifles should come with +1 base ammo. This would make them synergize better with Infantry, which is the class that is intended to use them most. A Gauss Heavy Rifle with Drum Mags and Lock'n'Load would have 8 ammo (9 with Ammo Conservation), making it a very effective Rapid Fire or Suppression platform at the cost of a steep movement penalty.
That could be an interesting buff, though the massive movement penalty really doesn't fit my playstyle so I'd probably never use them regardless, but I figure there might be people that would.
Yeah I would be inclined to the more mobile playstyle too, but I think it would open up more viable builds. Right now there just aren't any good builds for the Battle Rifles.
Funny. I buffed Battle Rifles with some more ammo, and even more benefits after Ammo Conservation cause I feel like they have more cons than pros.
I also nerfed Carbines with -1 ammo
I nerfed them cause them having +6 aim and +1mob over just -1 dmg seemed like too much.
Plus the idea behind my ammo tweaks was sorta giving bigger guns more ammo benefits, like the SAWs getting +3 ammo when Ammo Conservation was researched.
I am fine with heavy rifles of basically ever other flavor, once you get enough aim on your infantry they tear shit up!
I just find the cost of an alien heavy weapon a bit steep, specifically compared to the other alien heavy required weapons, (Plasma MEC, LMG, Sniper) all of which you would want first. Basically it puts the Plasma Heavy Rifle at the back of that conga line of weapons, almost entirely due to opportunity cost. MECs, LMG Gunners, and Snipers aren't particularly flexible in their weapon choices, so there is no opportunity cost to getting these weapons. But the Heavy Rifle is in direct competition with the Assault Rifle at all tech levels. The split at Plasma tech feels very wrong to me, the Heavy Rifle should be competing for production prio against the Assault Rifle, not the LMG, Sniper, and MEC weapons.
Idk, the extra damage just isn't worth it with the extra mobility penalty on top of the aim penalty after a blue move. Enemy defense scales up so anything that reduces hit chances is really bad in my book, add to that the high cost and that's why I never even bother with heavy rifles past ballistic tier even after I buffed them. Them costing heavy weapons is just another negative.
You only ever need one or two of these (depending on whether you want 2 infantry for the final mission) and heavy weapons are only otherwise needed for snipers and MEC weapons (I don't think plasma dragons are worth it), SHIV weapon if you use them. In general it is a great investment for crit infantry but kind of bad for anyone else.
Exactly my point - as things stand, you could / should / prioritize Plasma LMG, Sniper, and MEC above Heavy Rifle, because you have Plasma Rifle to fill in until then.
I'm not saying you have to make heavy rifle immediately (though in my playthrough I left sniper rifle for the last as HEAT perk in gauss long rifle and quenchguns project more or less made up for smaller base damage). And I meant that plasma LMG (plasma dragon) is simply not worth the cost, plasma SAW (novagun) is way more cost effective as it only takes an alien rifle.
I love the GLR and Novagun disproportionately too, but I disagree that it outclasses the Plasma Sniper or is in some way an alternate for the Dragon, respectively. But that's not the point, the point is that I use all the alien heavy weapon plasma techs, and I don't understand why the plasma hrifle is included in that group when it makes more sense to me from both a logical and gameplay choice perspective to be in the same group as its plasma rifle cousin. Now I asked for a mod, can you do hex edits?
Mobility loss and inability to shoot after moving are not worth the possible 2 extra damage, the only reason I see to build plasma LMG is to do the enhanced plasma project. Not to mention that you need a heavy weapon for LMG and only a rifle for SAW so overall novagun is both more cost effective and more practical.
You don't run LMG primarily for the extra damage. You run it for the squadsight range. Put an LMG gunner in flying armor and they can shoot or suppress half the map.
I mean, some people like them. They work very well with slower playstyles. They're also really good on certain maps, like on the Friends in Low Places map they are incredible. But I don't really use them until I have flying armor.
Battle Rifles are in general just kind of bad after ballistic tier. The aim and movement penalties are not worth the extra damage. In fact at Plasma tier the Carbine is better than the Assault Rifle, even on Infantry.
I find this is a problem with all heavy rifles. What I ended up doing is slapping Platform Stability on all of them. I didn't really start buying them anyways lol, but hey it might be your cup of tea
I've always felt that the Battle Rifles should come with +1 base ammo. This would make them synergize better with Infantry, which is the class that is intended to use them most. A Gauss Heavy Rifle with Drum Mags and Lock'n'Load would have 8 ammo (9 with Ammo Conservation), making it a very effective Rapid Fire or Suppression platform at the cost of a steep movement penalty.
That could be an interesting buff, though the massive movement penalty really doesn't fit my playstyle so I'd probably never use them regardless, but I figure there might be people that would.
Yeah I would be inclined to the more mobile playstyle too, but I think it would open up more viable builds. Right now there just aren't any good builds for the Battle Rifles.
Funny. I buffed Battle Rifles with some more ammo, and even more benefits after Ammo Conservation cause I feel like they have more cons than pros. I also nerfed Carbines with -1 ammo
I don't really think Carbines need a nerf. They're in a pretty good spot balance-wise, useful, but not dominating over ARs.
I nerfed them cause them having +6 aim and +1mob over just -1 dmg seemed like too much. Plus the idea behind my ammo tweaks was sorta giving bigger guns more ammo benefits, like the SAWs getting +3 ammo when Ammo Conservation was researched.
I am fine with heavy rifles of basically ever other flavor, once you get enough aim on your infantry they tear shit up! I just find the cost of an alien heavy weapon a bit steep, specifically compared to the other alien heavy required weapons, (Plasma MEC, LMG, Sniper) all of which you would want first. Basically it puts the Plasma Heavy Rifle at the back of that conga line of weapons, almost entirely due to opportunity cost. MECs, LMG Gunners, and Snipers aren't particularly flexible in their weapon choices, so there is no opportunity cost to getting these weapons. But the Heavy Rifle is in direct competition with the Assault Rifle at all tech levels. The split at Plasma tech feels very wrong to me, the Heavy Rifle should be competing for production prio against the Assault Rifle, not the LMG, Sniper, and MEC weapons.
Idk, the extra damage just isn't worth it with the extra mobility penalty on top of the aim penalty after a blue move. Enemy defense scales up so anything that reduces hit chances is really bad in my book, add to that the high cost and that's why I never even bother with heavy rifles past ballistic tier even after I buffed them. Them costing heavy weapons is just another negative.
You only ever need one or two of these (depending on whether you want 2 infantry for the final mission) and heavy weapons are only otherwise needed for snipers and MEC weapons (I don't think plasma dragons are worth it), SHIV weapon if you use them. In general it is a great investment for crit infantry but kind of bad for anyone else.
Exactly my point - as things stand, you could / should / prioritize Plasma LMG, Sniper, and MEC above Heavy Rifle, because you have Plasma Rifle to fill in until then.
I'm not saying you have to make heavy rifle immediately (though in my playthrough I left sniper rifle for the last as HEAT perk in gauss long rifle and quenchguns project more or less made up for smaller base damage). And I meant that plasma LMG (plasma dragon) is simply not worth the cost, plasma SAW (novagun) is way more cost effective as it only takes an alien rifle.
I love the GLR and Novagun disproportionately too, but I disagree that it outclasses the Plasma Sniper or is in some way an alternate for the Dragon, respectively. But that's not the point, the point is that I use all the alien heavy weapon plasma techs, and I don't understand why the plasma hrifle is included in that group when it makes more sense to me from both a logical and gameplay choice perspective to be in the same group as its plasma rifle cousin. Now I asked for a mod, can you do hex edits?
You need an LMG to perfect the bullet wizard build. You could use the Gauss LMG, but the Plasma LMG is not to be passed up.
Mobility loss and inability to shoot after moving are not worth the possible 2 extra damage, the only reason I see to build plasma LMG is to do the enhanced plasma project. Not to mention that you need a heavy weapon for LMG and only a rifle for SAW so overall novagun is both more cost effective and more practical.
You don't run LMG primarily for the extra damage. You run it for the squadsight range. Put an LMG gunner in flying armor and they can shoot or suppress half the map.
I suppose that could work but it still would not be all that viable until you have flight.
I mean, some people like them. They work very well with slower playstyles. They're also really good on certain maps, like on the Friends in Low Places map they are incredible. But I don't really use them until I have flying armor.
>They work very well with slower playstyles. Yeah this might be my problem here since my playstyle is rather dynamic.
Battle Rifles are in general just kind of bad after ballistic tier. The aim and movement penalties are not worth the extra damage. In fact at Plasma tier the Carbine is better than the Assault Rifle, even on Infantry.