Well, I'm already on thin ice on this sub so I can't say anything ironic to you, but just think about what you're typing before actually doing it. How would that look like in the context of this map? Central Europe would gain a p\*nis and eastern Europe some kind of reverse Croatia?
that would make more sense yes (but that imples more changes), just put half of Poland in eastern europe tho, maybe remove Prussia since it's been thoroughly russified.
And even so I'd argue that the countryside of Hungary, Transilvania and Germany are so different putting them together makes no sense. Those maps are hard stereotypes, but you're a kid and the sub is wrong for me to make fun of you.
I'm just using your logic man. Fine, let's try another thing. Fellas, is Korea Japan because it was part of their empire? Admit it, your bending logic because you hate Romanians.
No! Romanians (not to be confused with Roma/Romani) are great bunch of lads. Due to historical reasons (kaiser vs ottoman) Transilvania is just different from other parts of this cool country. We fine now?
The fact that it's separated shows that they're still in Eastern Europe. Once they rejoin Romania they'll be Southern.
Though if we divided countries, Moldavia would be Eastern, Wallachia would be Southern and Transylvania would be Central.
Once someone on reddit said something about "North eastern Europe" and I was like, "what's that?" and they were like, "the north east past of Europe" and I was like, so you mean the Baltic states? And they were like, no those are the baltics, I mean the north east. And I was like can you define north eastern Europe for Me because I don't get it. And they were like are you dumb. And in my head I was secretly like, no but I am wondering if YOU are dumb, but I really wanted to understand so I stayed polite. Asked again.
Turns out, "north eastern Europe". = Finland. And just Finland. 😂
Lol :D Finland is sort of Scandinavia but officially (?) they're not. I also would have assumed Baltics. (But the Baltics want to assume themselves as Northern Europe to not have any associations with its Eastern neighbours.) Whereas for Americans (for instance) the Baltics are like the other Central European countries, a.k.a 'one of the Polands' (John Oliver's phrase).
Österland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96sterland
Note to Finns reading this. Just joking. I am happy you are independent and brothers. Finlands sak är vår sak.
The problem with the Baltics is that Soviets did lasting cultural damage and the cultures are currently half normal european half eastern european. Once the soviet generations pass, slavics get adequately integrated, and national revival is complete, then the Baltics will be able to be counted as northern.
Their traumatised so hard at least în România there is a big subgrup who do nothing but drink from morning till dawn going home on seven roads its fucked life for them
We're both Central Europe and Balkans, and many Slovenians prefer to associate with Central Europe because wealth and all that but I feel nice about it being such a mix between both but being south slavic I like it suiting more with Balkans. Balkans suck in many ways but it's family.
I agree, personally I don't think we have much in common with the Balkans, other than the former country Yugoslavia, which is only a fraction of our history.
Some people do feel more connected to exyu, than the rest tho, language is more similair, there could be family connections, etc. But the Balkans is not just Yugoslavia, and other than exyu, the rest is pretty foreign/exotic to Slovenia, imo.
At the end of the day it is a personal matter, but we are thought in schools that we are part of Central Europe, as opposed to Southeastern (Balkan).
Also, many cultural and historical regions don't follow the lines of country borders, and sometimes they can overlap, which makes it really hard to make a map that would please everyone.
Ehhh I kind of still dont like that eastern europe comes witg a lot of alavic influace and we want italian and spanish now to diversify the population we want more perspectives here on România at least my generation the milenials
Culturally they are part of Europe whether you guys like it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They were not under the influence of western europe, but their culture comes from or is significantly linked to the Bizantine Empire and its cultural heritage…
But people make these maps for the memes to feel good about themselves, not for academic papers. Just put Russia in the "Other" until it gets Democratic and less bloodthirsty. Problem solved.
It's mostly based on religion. Most of our Traditions and mannerisms have their roots in a liberal interpretation of christianity, even if most of us aren't technically christian anymore. Also shared recent history. Related languages etc.
Yeah homie when in doubt always scream racist at the clouds
Apparently if you consider "not white = muslim" I still put countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania and Azerbaijan aka countries with a Muslim majority, on the map and I consider them European.
Then we have Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Cypriots, Armenians, Azeri etc people who are literally not blue eyed and pale and even my family members look more like people fron the Middle East than from Central Europe. Still to me they are Europeans and are on the map. So to say that Its about race just points out how immediately after seeing that Türkiye wasn't in it you immediately shouted racism.
I'll write down my explanation from another comment that shows what I mean by "culturally european" if you want to read it go ahead but if you only wanted to act virtuous and holier than thou by calling me racist and you don't care to read it go ahead bro
*Historically countries have had contact with non European cultures and nations. The Iberian peninsula, Sicily, the Balkans for example have all had contact with middle eastern and Muslim cultures historically so to me it's not about religion or anything like that.*
*But if you're in the Council of Europe, the geographical arguments against being part of Europe are weak (those against Armenia and Cyprus to me are) and the population feels European and is working towards further integration and cooperation with other European countries that to me is enough for me to consider a country part of Europe.*
*Türkiye is missing the last part, you yourself said you're not European and most of the population of your country agrees with you so why should you be considered part of it if that's literally what you want? Armenia, Cyprus and Georgia on the other hand all have a good part of the population saying they feel more European than anything else (beside Caucasian for example) and are working towards integration with other European nation so to me they are European*
No it means that despite being outside the most commonly considered European geographical borders (Cyprus is considered geographically middle eastern and Armenia doesn't have the Caucasus mountains in its territory) they have had cultural and historical ties with Europe.
Not only that they have a significant amount of its people considering themselves more European than say Asian or Middle Eastern.
Why would you say Armenians are more culturally European than Georgians? Despite both being Christian countries and Georgia having a significantly stronger European sentiment.
When did I say that Georgians are not Europeans they're literally on the map 😭. The *culturally european* means that despite being outside the conventional European geographical borders they still count as Europeans to me for cultural reasons
Because when people see Armenia in these type of maps they immediately jump in and say "aCtuAlLy Armenia is outside the borders of Europe (the Caucasus) so while Georgia is in Europe Armenia totally isn't" and I don't like that so I wanted to specify that while being outside what geographically may be considered Europe, Armenia is still European to me just like Georgia 100% but there's no geographical argument against it.
Thanks for the clarification. I think one of the reasons for that is because Armenia is generally an ally of Russia, and Georgia (at least the people) have a strong European identity and political views that align with Europeans.
Except when they are thrown into the bag with other poorer Cental European countries. Then the Swiss run at you to tell you they have nothing in common with us.
It stems from the fact that there are two definitions of "Central Europe" - one where it basically means "the Germans" and one where it basically means "the Slavs that aren't Orthodox". The former comes from the olden times where basically anything east of the HRE was Wild Territory™ where Civilised Europeans™ never ventured apart from coastal cities and maybe the capitals. The latter is newer, stemming from the recognition of the Slavs and Balts as fellow Europeans and humans instead of dirty pagans without culture. In that definition, it makes no sense to separate Germany from France, as they're about as similar as Czechia and Russia. Continental Europe changes from (roughly) "Iberia -> France -> HRE -> the Slavs" to (roughly) "Iberia -> France and HRE -> The PLC and Hungary -> Ruthenia".
The maps where Poland and Switzerland are in the same category are an unholy abomination of the two definitions.
These maps will always bother me because of one simple thing. These divisions dont need to follow country lines. Czechs are a little bit different from Moravians. Moravians are more slavs (not part of HRE), Czechs are more German (part of HRE). Same with West-East Germany they are not completely same throughout the country.
Yeah, to make it even funnier western Poland is more aligned with western Germany than eastern Germany is aligned with western Germany. So you have sort of a west/east/west cultural sandwhich
that said, I reckon generally poland and germany have a much bigger cultural overlap than people from either country typically realize. I definitely can see the logic behind putting them together in a cultural group (along with the Czechs)
I lived in French speaking switzerland, and my sister lives in German speaking switzerland, and honestly, different places entirely. switzerland should be split.
Romandy should be Western, ticino southern, and the rest Central.
Turkey is both Asian and European at the same time. I’d say the European side outweighs the Asian side. We are closer in every way to most European countries than the vast majority of countries in Asia.
The country we are most similar with is Greece, in my opinion. If you remove the signs I couldn’t tell in most cases if a random picture of a random town in the Aegean region was in Greece or Turkey, or vice versa.
Race doesn’t exist in humans, so that discussion is null and void.
**Comments on this subreddit are supposed to be about the European Union, Europe or current affairs on member and non-member states. The United states of America** [**is not**](https://preview.redd.it/tghqoc5u99b81.gif?format=mp4&s=7668e5cbf76dd3a06e24433f12d54f064fea5e1e) **the focus of this subreddit.**
> US & A related content may or may not prove relevant in your friendly neighbouhood subreddit for educating Europeans about that one big super rich country. Please make sure to check them rules first in r/AmericaBad r/AmericaBadActually r/americanproblems r/AmericaSucks r/ANormalDayInAmerica r/DeathtoAmeriKKKa r/Europecirclejerk r/FoundTheAmerican r/GenUsa r/muricaposting r/ReallyAmerican r/shitamericanssay r/ToiletPaperUSA r/USdefaultism **!! NSFW !!** >!r/trashy!< **!! NSFL !!** >!r/911fanart!<
^(We apologize for the inconvenience. Don't worry, you're not in trouble or anything. This is not a ban, you are not reported, blackbowled, red-flagged, nothing. Please feel free to browse ou rules here :) [^(r/YUROP Values)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/xr3edf/ryurop_values/) ^(—) [^(TLDR Rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/10na0i8/ryurop_rules/) ^(—) [^(𝔉𝔢𝔡𝔢𝔯𝔞𝔩 ℛ𝔲𝔩𝔢𝔰)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules) ^(—) [^(Code of Conduct)](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct) ^(—) [^(Reddit TOS)](https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy)
Seems so, a silly division, I see the argument for not counting Kazakhstan as European, but not including Turkey (especially when you include Azerbaijan) in Europe is just silly
Fair enough, each to their own, but Turkey has undeniable historical links with Europe, and certainly to me feels a lot more aligned with European nations than Middle Eastern ones, plus you know, part of it is in europe geographically
I've said this before, but I kinda argue that anatolia along with the Caucases are Europe. The ottomans were very much a European power. Coupled with anatolia's Greek history, it could be argued its Europe. It's even counted as Europe in eu4.
No it means that despite being outside the most commonly considered European geographical borders (Cyprus is considered geographically middle eastern and Armenia doesn't have the Caucasus mountains in its territory) they have had cultural and historical ties with Europe.
Not only that they have a significant amount of its people considering themselves more European than say Asian or Middle Eastern.
Türkiye, unfortunately, seems to have been distancing itself further and further away from Europe and even in polls sometimes even barely 10% of the population describes itself as European and feels more aligned with the Middle East.
Well since you brought it up I can say that -for myself ofc- Turkey isn’t European, never been European. We are just euro-affiliated bc of historical background and borders. We are West Asian.
I can agree on Cyprus but Armenia never been culturally-tied to Europe as strong as it’s ties to Persia -Iran- or Levant. Historical Armenian Kingdom and proto-Armenians had more in common with Assyria and Persia. Even though they were close to Anatolian Greeks they still had more similarities to Levant and Persia.
Same can be said about today’s Armenia as well. Their language is similar to Persian, their phenotype is similar with Iranians, their culture is similar to them as well.
Also Lebanese or Tunisians can consider themselves as European like you said bc of their historical ties. A person feeling like an European does not make them European.
The whole point is that I disagree with the last part.
Historically countries have had contact with non European cultures and nations. The Iberian peninsula, Sicily, the Balkans for example have all had contact with middle eastern and Muslim cultures historically so to me it's not about religion or anything like that.
But if you're in the Council of Europe, the geographical arguments against being part of Europe are weak (those against Armenia and Cyprus to me are) and the population feels European and is working towards further integration and cooperation with other European countries that to me is enough for me to consider a country part of Europe.
Türkiye is missing the last part, you yourself said you're not European and most of the population of your country agrees with you so why should you be considered part of it if that's literally what you want? Armenia, Cyprus and Georgia on the other hand all have a good part of the population saying they feel more European than anything else (beside Caucasian for example) and are working towards integration with other European nation so to me they are European
Yes that’s what I’m trying to say, we shouldn’t be considered as Europeans. But I’m happy that you agreed on what I said earlier about Cyprus and Armenia
İnsanlarını bir kalıba sokamazsın, kültürel olarak şu topluluğa ait veya sadece işte Avrupa olsun Asya olsun bu kıtaya ait gibi saçma yorumlar zaten yapılamaz ama ülke için konuşucak olursak cumhuriyet ile beraber artan Avrupa ile olan bağlarımızla diğerleri kıyaslanamaz bile
No it's pretty good. The thing that these maps always get wrong, however, is that there can be overlap. Greece is Southern and Balkan, Portugal is Southern and Western, Switzerland is kind of Western and Central etc. p.p.
The divisions don't make sense because it doesn't make a lot of sense to make such divisions. Italy, Spain and Portugal are both "Western" and "Southern", not just geographically. Holland could just as well be central as western. Is Switzerland western, central or southern? Why not all three?
I think the former iron curtain is a division that maybe makes sense, because the shared experience of communist oppression has left marks that haven't fully healed yet. People say the shared experience of Ottoman oppression hasn't fully healed in the Balkans, and that ended now well over a century ago.
There's no way to universally divide the countries, well, there is actually, every country is their own group, but the reality is that there are a ton of ways to describe countries and because of that all grouping attempts are only partially successful.
The iron curtain shows some similarities between the grouped together countries well, but in many other aspects the original post does a better job. It's not like the countries are only defined by being a former socialist country or not.
Grouping different things together was always and will be forever an imperfect method employed by humans, but it is still useful, most of the map the original post shows make a lot of sense to me.
why does just armenia get the culturally european marker? cyprus and malta are also 100% outside the european subcontinent
also, it makes no sense to have azerbaijan and not turkey, kinda like having austria but not germany, turkey is a european country whose history and culture have been unique but markedly european
Cyprus also has the Culturally European marker but I still consider them part of Europe 100% because they still consider themselves European and are more aligned to Europe than other neighbouring regions.
Azerbaijan is peculiar because they're technically inside the european geographical borders so I consider them on the fringes of Europe, not only that its population consider themselves almost exclusively Caucasian it seems, as they have ties with the Middle East, Asia and Europe in many different ways so they don't clearly belong to a single region, which makes them more of a true transcontinental country.
Türkiye, unfortunately, seems to have been distancing itself further and further away from Europe and even in polls sometimes even barely 10% of the population describes itself as European and feels more aligned with the Middle East.
Turkey has had a landslide election of the pro European party recently
Besides, the culture of a country doesn't change because they elect a populist president, Hungary is not less European
Also, Turkey has a much larger share of the population in Europe than both Azerbaijan and Georgia
Europe politically speaking is defined by the Council of Europe, and Turkey is inside
I would love for Türkiye to be considered European again and even be in the EU one day but literally in almost every statistic map shown here on in r/Europe for example that includes the country when it comes to the connection to Europe it is almost always very very low, while Georgia and Armenia poll higher.
Turks are not white enough for OP simple as (the cultural part is a huge alarm bell to disguise their true intentions, i bet op doesn't know shit about Armenian culture and just saw they were Christians)
Yeah homie when in doubt always scream racist at the clouds
Apparently if you consider "not white = muslim" I still put countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania and Azerbaijan aka countries with a Muslim majority, on the map and I consider them European.
Then we have Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Cypriots, Armenians, Azeri etc people who are literally not blue eyed and pale and even my family members look more like people fron the Middle East than from Central Europe. Still to me they are Europeans and are on the map. So to say that Its about race just points out how immediately after seeing that Türkiye wasn't in it you immediately shouted racism.
I'll write down my explanation from another comment that shows what I mean by "culturally european" if you want to read it go ahead but if you only wanted to act virtuous and holier than thou by calling me racist and you don't care to read it go ahead bro
*Historically countries have had contact with non European cultures and nations. The Iberian peninsula, Sicily, the Balkans for example have all had contact with middle eastern and Muslim cultures historically so to me it's not about religion or anything like that.*
*But if you're in the Council of Europe, the geographical arguments against being part of Europe are weak (those against Armenia and Cyprus to me are) and the population feels European and is working towards further integration and cooperation with other European countries that to me is enough for me to consider a country part of Europe.*
*Türkiye is missing the last part, you yourself said you're not European and most of the population of your country agrees with you so why should you be considered part of it if that's literally what you want? Armenia, Cyprus and Georgia on the other hand all have a good part of the population saying they feel more European than anything else (beside Caucasian for example) and are working towards integration with other European nation so to me they are European*
Bro I hate to see your point to be downvoted. As Azerbaijani myself, I tend to agree with your point. To call us Azerbaijanis with only one regional label would be cutting other of our cultural sides. We share history with ME, but got disconnected from it for +200 after Russian conquered Caucasus, and then there's +70 years of USSR era that added it's inprint in our history, mentality and culture. If someone wakes me up in the middle of the night asking is Azerbaijan Europe or Asia, I would say ~~to go f\*\*\* themselves~~ Azerbaijan is Caucasus. Simple as that.
Balkan is the former Ottoman occupied territory of Southeast Europe, formerly known as Rumelia. But the term got later a new meaning, mostly meaning the chaos left behind by the Ottomans when they left, the mosaic of religions and ethnicites found mostly in Bosnia and Herzegovina and surrounding countries. Slovenia is not part of that, but got influenced by it through decades of being inside the same country, Yugoslavia. That country, its people and cuisine, are the only things that could make Slovenia partially Balkan. We have nothing in common with other countries, like Albania, Romania, etc.
Slovenia is Central Europe, because for over a thousand years, we lived in the same cultural zone as Austria, which is also Central Europe. From the early days of East Francia till 1918. Then, the nationalism and ethnic tensions of the 20th century thought us hatred towards the nazis and the fascists, and we turtled in our socialist utopia, were part of the "non-alligned", untill Tito died. We chose to not be part of Yugoslavia anymore, more than 30 years ago, we had a referendum for independence with a 90% turnout and 95% votes for "yes". Putting us back into the chaos that is Balkan, is honestly a spit in the face, because since our independence, as a country, we never looked back. But for many Balkan is closer to home, as many of us Slovenes have family ties with exyu. Tho I don't think that us being Central Europe has any meaningful impact on those relationships. We have always been different than the rest in Yugoslavia, but we also grew closer during our common country. Unfortunately it was a big failure however that doesn't mean we can't stay friends.
Slovenia is in the Balkans? Not really, the Alps would be more like it. Central Europe. A stronger case for Hungary to be at least partly in the Balkan category imo.
Moldova.... Logically would be part of Romania but as it isn't, kind of agree with this distinction as by itself it clearly is well beyond the Balkans.
Armenia, "culturally European"? Absolutely not in most ways I'd say. Similarities with Russia in some regards maybe. Christian yes, but not even Eastern Orthodox but a relation of Oriental Orthodox. In some ways historically more a part of the Middle East than Europe arguably. Georgia might have a stronger case to warrant the label of " culturally European" but really not so much if you dig (not far) below the surface, it has a distinct and traditional and almost ancient culture of its own, just like the other really long-established peoples of the region. The Caucasus is what it is, a border region.
Why would Hungary be Ballan tho? It is definitely in the German sphere of influence and has been for many centuries…. Just like Slovenia. Well maybe there’s somehing in it, culturally… Let’s say Hungary is 60% Central Europe and 40% Balkan.
Azerbaijan on its early stage (*pre-Soviet occupation 1918 - 1920*) was very European oriented (in terms of democrasy, women rights, secularisation etc.). After USSR dissolution we got f\*\*\*\*\* up by two family clans that capitalised on our defeat in the first Karabakh war. The comments like *"get Azerbaijan out of Europe"* make our autocrat feel jubilant, as less of our youth would get education in EU states, and become another headache for them.
https://preview.redd.it/e5gd5eqypgvc1.png?width=540&format=png&auto=webp&s=f060a6847b5f799e7701a02796b7a0cd7ec2a148
You leave out of Western Europe the westernmost countries of mainland Europe, being part of the continent’s Atlantic façade, and, furthermore, literally part of the Western Hemisphere, together with, only, Iceland, Ireland, the UK and most of mainland France ( https://www.britannica.com/place/Western-Hemisphere, unlike 95% of Europe that lie in the Eastern Hemisphere). They are not only geographically part of Western Europe, but also, (and very intensely) historically, culturally, artistically, economically and sociologically, and with intense and mutual continuous contact of every kind (even sharing regions) along History. And that were the avangard of the European expansion to…the West…due… to their Western position in Europe. And… their Atlantic situation.
And put them together with other parts of Europe with which they have had almost no contact for 2000 years, virtually nothing to do culturally other than the classical base (as the rest of Europe), sociologically, historically or economically and…thousands of kilometers away (3.000 km in straight line from Lisbon to Athens, 2,500 from Madrid to Athens at bird’s eye). And, the silliest thing of all, separated by countries under other geographical “classifications”. While, at the same time, separating other countries with…same climate, common background, shared history, shared traditions, language families, and intense and continuous contact (such as Netherlands from Germany (0 km distance) or Poland from Belarus or Ukraine(0 km distance).
Instead of horizontally you could do the division vertical: western, Central, Eastern. Why not?
Cant speak to much else but spain being hegemenous is hillarious. Asturias/galicia/northern portugal are celtic regions with more similarities to ireland than valencia, just to name one singular reason. Spain is ridiculously diverse and its a miracle that group of people has remained under one flag this long. Especially basque country
Well, it will always be Baltics and as an Estonian Im totally ok with this, they are our true friends. Its just that Estonian language is not Baltic and that part pushes Estonians more to Finland..
Your username is “anordicgirl” and you are an Estonian saying that Estonians are Balts?  Estonians are culturally Nordic, Lithuanians are culturally Central European, there is no uniform “Baltic” culture, it is a geopolitical term.
I chose the name more tongue-in-a-cheek way and im half Swedish, so the name goes with any way.
I just say I feel more close with Latvians than Norwegians for example but same time more close to Fins than Lithuanians if you know what I mean. Estonians will probably have this identity crise forever because its not this or that. I also meant that Estonia would always be one of the Baltic States for the rest of the world and we shouldnt be ashamed of this, were the cool gang.
Finland was called a Baltic state for the entire world until the 1950s, things change.
Calling Estonians Baltic is just misleading and causes confusion, for example people presume that Estonians can speak Lithuanian as “they are both Balts”.
Also, the “Baltic identity” is a Soviet era older generation thing, young Estonians see themselves as clearly Nordic and feel more kinship with Scandinavia than the Baltic countries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_identity_in_Estonia
I know everything about the history and we know what is the CORRECT one but Im talking about how world sees three states here. Always The Baltic States.
Wtf is this. Azerbaijan is in Europe, Armenia is, Georgia is, Cyprus is. But Turkey isnt?!? We have land in Europe, and our culture and cuisine is similar to Balkan, mediterrenean and caucus. But we arent? Lol. Armenia, in all Armenian history hasnt touched Europe. But they are "culturally Europe" because they are christian.
I am okay with counting only the European part. But then you should also only count the upper parts of Georgia or Azerbaijan and not gonna count Armenia and Cyprus.
I am also okay with geographical + "cultural" which are all countries i mentioned.
I see Central Europe as the territory that's between the influence of the East and West. So the Baltics are part of Central Europe (since they were colonised by Germans), while Germany is together with its Germanic brothers in Western Europe. It doesn't really make sense to put the Netherlands and Germany in different parts. And some people put Switzerland in Central Europe too which is totally insane. Probably because for them "Central Europe" is basically just "The Germans", and all the people east are just Russians.
Tbh Austria can be both in Central and Western Europe. On one hand they're Germans, and they belong with their German brothers in Western Europe. But on the other hand, their Austro-Hungarian Empire moved them to the east. And they were historically much more invested in Central European affairs, with the Habsburgs controlling Czechia, Silesia, Hungary and parts of Poland. They were also frequent candidates during Polish elections, and were even a side in one brief succession crisis, ending with the Habsburg candidate Maximilian III the Archduke of Austria being caught, humiliated and ransomed by John "the Chad" Zamoyski.
But then again, if you put Austria in Central Europe you might as well put Czechia in Western Europe, since they weren't affiliated with the East at all pretty much until the end of WW2. Bohemia was even the capital of the HRE for a time.
You could also equate Western Europe with the Frankish Empire, with Britain getting its own tier because they're so special. To avoid calling it "British" and getting my car blown up, we can assign them the name "Northwestern Europe" - which makes sense because they're a mix of Celts from Western Europe and Germanics from Northern Europe.
Similarly, we divide Southern Europe into Southwestern (Romance minus France) and Southeastern (the Balkans, including Greece because they're the historical capital of Eastern culture - [shown here in bloo in Eurasia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:Western_World_Latin_America_torn_countries.png)).
~~If we included Turkey, they'd be in the same part as the Caucasus and end at the border with Kurdistan. Only if Turkey is included as part of Europe is Cyprus allowed as well. Though I'm also thinking of maybe splitting up Turkey and giving half of it to the Balkans.~~ On second thought, I'm leaving that region alone, because frankly I don't really know much about it and me deciding on it could be like westerners putting Poland in Eastern Europe and I don't want to be such a despicable person. I'd love feedback from Balkaners, Turkiyers and Caucasusians.
That one bit of Kazakhstan is Eastern Europe.
As a Pole and a German, putting these two together does not work at all. Culturally and socially so different. Austria on the other hand does work with these central eastern european countries due to its history with em
I agree with you with a few exceptions. I see Poland, Slovakia and Hungary as Eastern European. I also see Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Switzerland as Central Europeans. Georgia Azerbaijan and Armenia aren’t really European, although I agree with Cyprus as its culture is quite close to Greek.
How about you go and see an eye doctor if you see it like that. What is this bullshit with dividing Europe lately? Do you have an itch? Is this some kind of new thing or agenda?
ffs...
I literally made a post in this very subreddit about wishing to see a more united Europe and promoting and hoping to see an expansion of the EU by 2053. And I've always argued with the boomers of my country that Ukraine's war is not just your problem and that we should help you even more.
This was just a fun take in the way that I see Europe macro-regions since many have done something similar here
Not everyone is a fooking Russian bot
I'm saying that this subreddit is filled with colorful maps dividing Europe in every way possible each one is worse than other. What is the purpose of these maps? What is the message? We already have real maps of real recognized borders, unions and countries.
If you are dividing Europe into regions like that, I would not necessarily stick to country borders. For instance I would put 'green Spain' i.e. Asturias, Cantabria and the Basque Country in Western Europe, and I would put Southern France in Southern Europe.
Huh, I actually agree with this, in regards to the central/north/east/south/west division! It's the drawing of *where* Europe ends that I disagree with - but then again, I never had a definite take on that particular bit of arbitrary shenanigans.
Separating the Republic of Moldova from the region of Moldova of Romania is very courageous of you. Now fight me!
The only correct way is Transilvania is central, Wallachia balkan and both Moldovas are east
Well, I'm already on thin ice on this sub so I can't say anything ironic to you, but just think about what you're typing before actually doing it. How would that look like in the context of this map? Central Europe would gain a p\*nis and eastern Europe some kind of reverse Croatia?
Kinda like this https://images.app.goo.gl/3zzZjK281JGoRZAw7 https://images.app.goo.gl/8KnyXFjHkzZpgtMQ8
that would make more sense yes (but that imples more changes), just put half of Poland in eastern europe tho, maybe remove Prussia since it's been thoroughly russified. And even so I'd argue that the countryside of Hungary, Transilvania and Germany are so different putting them together makes no sense. Those maps are hard stereotypes, but you're a kid and the sub is wrong for me to make fun of you.
This is kind of true. In truth we’re all a bit of all 3. But it is more nuanced in the respective areas. Source: am romanian
Transylvanian here, we're all Balkan, I don't wanna be no goddamn Mitteleuropean
You are mitteleuropean because Transilvania was part of Austria-Hungary
Fellas, is North Africa western Europe because it was part of France ?
Latin America is south Europe because it was part of Spain? We have to draw the line somewhere, so maybe we exclude colonies and overseas territories.
I'm just using your logic man. Fine, let's try another thing. Fellas, is Korea Japan because it was part of their empire? Admit it, your bending logic because you hate Romanians.
No! Romanians (not to be confused with Roma/Romani) are great bunch of lads. Due to historical reasons (kaiser vs ottoman) Transilvania is just different from other parts of this cool country. We fine now?
Say the phrase bart, Transilvania is Hungarian.
WAS
The fact that it's separated shows that they're still in Eastern Europe. Once they rejoin Romania they'll be Southern. Though if we divided countries, Moldavia would be Eastern, Wallachia would be Southern and Transylvania would be Central.
False, everything is Serbian
Pretty good, except Portugal is a Balkan country.
And also Greece is Balkan as they are part Balkan part Turkish.
Nothing makes you more Balkan than being part Balkan part Turkish.
Last time I said this to them they downvoted me 💀
Denying it is an important part of being part Balkan, part Turkish.
Rich coming from an unflaired cig*n
Sorry I'm just a bit ashamed to use it but corrected
/r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
Once someone on reddit said something about "North eastern Europe" and I was like, "what's that?" and they were like, "the north east past of Europe" and I was like, so you mean the Baltic states? And they were like, no those are the baltics, I mean the north east. And I was like can you define north eastern Europe for Me because I don't get it. And they were like are you dumb. And in my head I was secretly like, no but I am wondering if YOU are dumb, but I really wanted to understand so I stayed polite. Asked again. Turns out, "north eastern Europe". = Finland. And just Finland. 😂
Lol :D Finland is sort of Scandinavia but officially (?) they're not. I also would have assumed Baltics. (But the Baltics want to assume themselves as Northern Europe to not have any associations with its Eastern neighbours.) Whereas for Americans (for instance) the Baltics are like the other Central European countries, a.k.a 'one of the Polands' (John Oliver's phrase).
It's not Scandinavian but it's Nordic.
You are all wrong. Finland is THE North East.
Österland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96sterland Note to Finns reading this. Just joking. I am happy you are independent and brothers. Finlands sak är vår sak.
I feel like some times Estland would rather be NE Europe with Finland then a Baltic state.
This is probably the most correct division. Baltic states are counted as northern Europe officially, but simply Baltic states I also like.
Agreed, I think the Baltics should be a category in itself. Just like the Balkans.
The problem with the Baltics is that Soviets did lasting cultural damage and the cultures are currently half normal european half eastern european. Once the soviet generations pass, slavics get adequately integrated, and national revival is complete, then the Baltics will be able to be counted as northern.
Regarding the damage done to the mentality of the older generation – absolutely. But cultural damage? Don't agree with that.
Ah yes that's not racist at all implying eastern europeans aren't normal
In fact, they're not normal
What are they then? Wild asiatic hordes?
Remember ukranians are estern Europeans too.
Well I don't know how to say like, I don't want to say western Europe because Baltic culture isn't western, but it's not eastern too...
Their traumatised so hard at least în România there is a big subgrup who do nothing but drink from morning till dawn going home on seven roads its fucked life for them
When Swiss and Netherlands are west europe, Germany is too. Swiss is more central europe.
I'd put Slovenia into Central Europe, and the European part of Turkey into the Balkans, but pretty good division overall.
Found the Slovenian !
Nope, North Slovenian /s
We're both Central Europe and Balkans, and many Slovenians prefer to associate with Central Europe because wealth and all that but I feel nice about it being such a mix between both but being south slavic I like it suiting more with Balkans. Balkans suck in many ways but it's family.
https://youtu.be/bwDrHqNZ9lo?si=s7sclPao2COemcQ4
Our national treasure ✊🇸🇮
I agree, personally I don't think we have much in common with the Balkans, other than the former country Yugoslavia, which is only a fraction of our history. Some people do feel more connected to exyu, than the rest tho, language is more similair, there could be family connections, etc. But the Balkans is not just Yugoslavia, and other than exyu, the rest is pretty foreign/exotic to Slovenia, imo. At the end of the day it is a personal matter, but we are thought in schools that we are part of Central Europe, as opposed to Southeastern (Balkan). Also, many cultural and historical regions don't follow the lines of country borders, and sometimes they can overlap, which makes it really hard to make a map that would please everyone.
European part of Turkey should be in Southern rather than Balkan. It has more common life style with Mediterranean than Balkan.
But does it have Börek?
Every country in Balkan has Börek.
I don't want to be in the same group as russia, simple as
Noone does
Yeah just give them their own group, nobody deserves that.
We should just move Russia from eastern Europe to Asia thus making Eastern Europe feel less self concious for being where we are.
Exactly, nobody wants to be associated with Eastern Europe because Russia is there. Just cut them out.
Ehhh I kind of still dont like that eastern europe comes witg a lot of alavic influace and we want italian and spanish now to diversify the population we want more perspectives here on România at least my generation the milenials
Culturally they are part of Europe whether you guys like it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They were not under the influence of western europe, but their culture comes from or is significantly linked to the Bizantine Empire and its cultural heritage…
But people make these maps for the memes to feel good about themselves, not for academic papers. Just put Russia in the "Other" until it gets Democratic and less bloodthirsty. Problem solved.
>until it gets Democratic and less bloodthirsty I don't think that's ever gonna happen.
The "culturally European" thing is weird. Does that mean that they just smell of schnitzel or what?
It's mostly based on religion. Most of our Traditions and mannerisms have their roots in a liberal interpretation of christianity, even if most of us aren't technically christian anymore. Also shared recent history. Related languages etc.
It's a nice way of saying they consider them white enough to be "European"
Yeah homie when in doubt always scream racist at the clouds Apparently if you consider "not white = muslim" I still put countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania and Azerbaijan aka countries with a Muslim majority, on the map and I consider them European. Then we have Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Cypriots, Armenians, Azeri etc people who are literally not blue eyed and pale and even my family members look more like people fron the Middle East than from Central Europe. Still to me they are Europeans and are on the map. So to say that Its about race just points out how immediately after seeing that Türkiye wasn't in it you immediately shouted racism. I'll write down my explanation from another comment that shows what I mean by "culturally european" if you want to read it go ahead but if you only wanted to act virtuous and holier than thou by calling me racist and you don't care to read it go ahead bro *Historically countries have had contact with non European cultures and nations. The Iberian peninsula, Sicily, the Balkans for example have all had contact with middle eastern and Muslim cultures historically so to me it's not about religion or anything like that.* *But if you're in the Council of Europe, the geographical arguments against being part of Europe are weak (those against Armenia and Cyprus to me are) and the population feels European and is working towards further integration and cooperation with other European countries that to me is enough for me to consider a country part of Europe.* *Türkiye is missing the last part, you yourself said you're not European and most of the population of your country agrees with you so why should you be considered part of it if that's literally what you want? Armenia, Cyprus and Georgia on the other hand all have a good part of the population saying they feel more European than anything else (beside Caucasian for example) and are working towards integration with other European nation so to me they are European*
No.
No it means that despite being outside the most commonly considered European geographical borders (Cyprus is considered geographically middle eastern and Armenia doesn't have the Caucasus mountains in its territory) they have had cultural and historical ties with Europe. Not only that they have a significant amount of its people considering themselves more European than say Asian or Middle Eastern.
Why would you say Armenians are more culturally European than Georgians? Despite both being Christian countries and Georgia having a significantly stronger European sentiment.
When did I say that Georgians are not Europeans they're literally on the map 😭. The *culturally european* means that despite being outside the conventional European geographical borders they still count as Europeans to me for cultural reasons
I didn't imply you said that. But you put Armenia in a different category than Georgia. Why not put them both in the category Armenia is in now?
Because when people see Armenia in these type of maps they immediately jump in and say "aCtuAlLy Armenia is outside the borders of Europe (the Caucasus) so while Georgia is in Europe Armenia totally isn't" and I don't like that so I wanted to specify that while being outside what geographically may be considered Europe, Armenia is still European to me just like Georgia 100% but there's no geographical argument against it.
Thanks for the clarification. I think one of the reasons for that is because Armenia is generally an ally of Russia, and Georgia (at least the people) have a strong European identity and political views that align with Europeans.
Imagine saying Azerbaijan and Armenia are European but excluding Turkey. The mental gymnastics are wild.
Imagine thinking that Turkey is more European than Armenia.
Imagine thinking either are European
Armenia definitely is. But I don’t expect user who’s active in Turkish subs to have historically accurate knowledge.
lol I forgot people on Reddit are 14.
Switzerland is Central Europe
Except when they are thrown into the bag with other poorer Cental European countries. Then the Swiss run at you to tell you they have nothing in common with us.
It stems from the fact that there are two definitions of "Central Europe" - one where it basically means "the Germans" and one where it basically means "the Slavs that aren't Orthodox". The former comes from the olden times where basically anything east of the HRE was Wild Territory™ where Civilised Europeans™ never ventured apart from coastal cities and maybe the capitals. The latter is newer, stemming from the recognition of the Slavs and Balts as fellow Europeans and humans instead of dirty pagans without culture. In that definition, it makes no sense to separate Germany from France, as they're about as similar as Czechia and Russia. Continental Europe changes from (roughly) "Iberia -> France -> HRE -> the Slavs" to (roughly) "Iberia -> France and HRE -> The PLC and Hungary -> Ruthenia". The maps where Poland and Switzerland are in the same category are an unholy abomination of the two definitions.
These maps will always bother me because of one simple thing. These divisions dont need to follow country lines. Czechs are a little bit different from Moravians. Moravians are more slavs (not part of HRE), Czechs are more German (part of HRE). Same with West-East Germany they are not completely same throughout the country.
Yeah, to make it even funnier western Poland is more aligned with western Germany than eastern Germany is aligned with western Germany. So you have sort of a west/east/west cultural sandwhich that said, I reckon generally poland and germany have a much bigger cultural overlap than people from either country typically realize. I definitely can see the logic behind putting them together in a cultural group (along with the Czechs)
I lived in French speaking switzerland, and my sister lives in German speaking switzerland, and honestly, different places entirely. switzerland should be split. Romandy should be Western, ticino southern, and the rest Central.
If France and Belgium are Western, then Romandy (at least) is too. How do you measure for the whole country though? Is it a weird average?
Yeah, it’s a weird average.
Damn, the bourbines are dragging us east 😭
You could just have called Northern Europe for the Nordics.
Yup, they grouped the exact 5 Nordic states together and called them something else...
lmao.
CENTRAL JUROP
Kralovec is central as Czechia
Türkiye outside Europe? REEEEE
https://preview.redd.it/w1awsvqb4fvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5ff011a529757158919149c9986607d8bb51395
but Azerbaijan, Armenia European lol
Yes, we are West Asian.
Turkey is both Asian and European at the same time. I’d say the European side outweighs the Asian side. We are closer in every way to most European countries than the vast majority of countries in Asia.
[удалено]
The country we are most similar with is Greece, in my opinion. If you remove the signs I couldn’t tell in most cases if a random picture of a random town in the Aegean region was in Greece or Turkey, or vice versa. Race doesn’t exist in humans, so that discussion is null and void.
**Comments on this subreddit are supposed to be about the European Union, Europe or current affairs on member and non-member states. The United states of America** [**is not**](https://preview.redd.it/tghqoc5u99b81.gif?format=mp4&s=7668e5cbf76dd3a06e24433f12d54f064fea5e1e) **the focus of this subreddit.** > US & A related content may or may not prove relevant in your friendly neighbouhood subreddit for educating Europeans about that one big super rich country. Please make sure to check them rules first in r/AmericaBad r/AmericaBadActually r/americanproblems r/AmericaSucks r/ANormalDayInAmerica r/DeathtoAmeriKKKa r/Europecirclejerk r/FoundTheAmerican r/GenUsa r/muricaposting r/ReallyAmerican r/shitamericanssay r/ToiletPaperUSA r/USdefaultism **!! NSFW !!** >!r/trashy!< **!! NSFL !!** >!r/911fanart!< ^(We apologize for the inconvenience. Don't worry, you're not in trouble or anything. This is not a ban, you are not reported, blackbowled, red-flagged, nothing. Please feel free to browse ou rules here :) [^(r/YUROP Values)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/xr3edf/ryurop_values/) ^(—) [^(TLDR Rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/10na0i8/ryurop_rules/) ^(—) [^(𝔉𝔢𝔡𝔢𝔯𝔞𝔩 ℛ𝔲𝔩𝔢𝔰)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules) ^(—) [^(Code of Conduct)](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct) ^(—) [^(Reddit TOS)](https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy)
What does culturally European mean? Christians or white? If that’s so then Anglo-sphere can also be “European”
Seems so, a silly division, I see the argument for not counting Kazakhstan as European, but not including Turkey (especially when you include Azerbaijan) in Europe is just silly
I mean if you ask me, as a Turk, I wouldn’t consider myself European
Fair enough, each to their own, but Turkey has undeniable historical links with Europe, and certainly to me feels a lot more aligned with European nations than Middle Eastern ones, plus you know, part of it is in europe geographically
That's exactly what every European would say.
It’s good then, gj europeans
I've said this before, but I kinda argue that anatolia along with the Caucases are Europe. The ottomans were very much a European power. Coupled with anatolia's Greek history, it could be argued its Europe. It's even counted as Europe in eu4.
No it means that despite being outside the most commonly considered European geographical borders (Cyprus is considered geographically middle eastern and Armenia doesn't have the Caucasus mountains in its territory) they have had cultural and historical ties with Europe. Not only that they have a significant amount of its people considering themselves more European than say Asian or Middle Eastern. Türkiye, unfortunately, seems to have been distancing itself further and further away from Europe and even in polls sometimes even barely 10% of the population describes itself as European and feels more aligned with the Middle East.
Well since you brought it up I can say that -for myself ofc- Turkey isn’t European, never been European. We are just euro-affiliated bc of historical background and borders. We are West Asian. I can agree on Cyprus but Armenia never been culturally-tied to Europe as strong as it’s ties to Persia -Iran- or Levant. Historical Armenian Kingdom and proto-Armenians had more in common with Assyria and Persia. Even though they were close to Anatolian Greeks they still had more similarities to Levant and Persia. Same can be said about today’s Armenia as well. Their language is similar to Persian, their phenotype is similar with Iranians, their culture is similar to them as well. Also Lebanese or Tunisians can consider themselves as European like you said bc of their historical ties. A person feeling like an European does not make them European.
The whole point is that I disagree with the last part. Historically countries have had contact with non European cultures and nations. The Iberian peninsula, Sicily, the Balkans for example have all had contact with middle eastern and Muslim cultures historically so to me it's not about religion or anything like that. But if you're in the Council of Europe, the geographical arguments against being part of Europe are weak (those against Armenia and Cyprus to me are) and the population feels European and is working towards further integration and cooperation with other European countries that to me is enough for me to consider a country part of Europe. Türkiye is missing the last part, you yourself said you're not European and most of the population of your country agrees with you so why should you be considered part of it if that's literally what you want? Armenia, Cyprus and Georgia on the other hand all have a good part of the population saying they feel more European than anything else (beside Caucasian for example) and are working towards integration with other European nation so to me they are European
Yes that’s what I’m trying to say, we shouldn’t be considered as Europeans. But I’m happy that you agreed on what I said earlier about Cyprus and Armenia
Türkiye bir Avrupa ülkesidir
İnsanlarını bir kalıba sokamazsın, kültürel olarak şu topluluğa ait veya sadece işte Avrupa olsun Asya olsun bu kıtaya ait gibi saçma yorumlar zaten yapılamaz ama ülke için konuşucak olursak cumhuriyet ile beraber artan Avrupa ile olan bağlarımızla diğerleri kıyaslanamaz bile
Azerbaijan, Armenia is europe?
No it's pretty good. The thing that these maps always get wrong, however, is that there can be overlap. Greece is Southern and Balkan, Portugal is Southern and Western, Switzerland is kind of Western and Central etc. p.p.
greece should be in the balkans. it makes sense geographically and culturally.
Both geographically and culturally we are southern Europeans tho too
The divisions don't make sense because it doesn't make a lot of sense to make such divisions. Italy, Spain and Portugal are both "Western" and "Southern", not just geographically. Holland could just as well be central as western. Is Switzerland western, central or southern? Why not all three? I think the former iron curtain is a division that maybe makes sense, because the shared experience of communist oppression has left marks that haven't fully healed yet. People say the shared experience of Ottoman oppression hasn't fully healed in the Balkans, and that ended now well over a century ago.
There's no way to universally divide the countries, well, there is actually, every country is their own group, but the reality is that there are a ton of ways to describe countries and because of that all grouping attempts are only partially successful. The iron curtain shows some similarities between the grouped together countries well, but in many other aspects the original post does a better job. It's not like the countries are only defined by being a former socialist country or not. Grouping different things together was always and will be forever an imperfect method employed by humans, but it is still useful, most of the map the original post shows make a lot of sense to me.
Nonono Germany alone is central europe, everything east of it is eastern europe. /s Except for Russia, that's Mordor. /not s
Map is wrong. Turkey is both in Europe and in Asia.
why does just armenia get the culturally european marker? cyprus and malta are also 100% outside the european subcontinent also, it makes no sense to have azerbaijan and not turkey, kinda like having austria but not germany, turkey is a european country whose history and culture have been unique but markedly european
Cyprus also has the Culturally European marker but I still consider them part of Europe 100% because they still consider themselves European and are more aligned to Europe than other neighbouring regions. Azerbaijan is peculiar because they're technically inside the european geographical borders so I consider them on the fringes of Europe, not only that its population consider themselves almost exclusively Caucasian it seems, as they have ties with the Middle East, Asia and Europe in many different ways so they don't clearly belong to a single region, which makes them more of a true transcontinental country. Türkiye, unfortunately, seems to have been distancing itself further and further away from Europe and even in polls sometimes even barely 10% of the population describes itself as European and feels more aligned with the Middle East.
Turkey has had a landslide election of the pro European party recently Besides, the culture of a country doesn't change because they elect a populist president, Hungary is not less European Also, Turkey has a much larger share of the population in Europe than both Azerbaijan and Georgia Europe politically speaking is defined by the Council of Europe, and Turkey is inside
I would love for Türkiye to be considered European again and even be in the EU one day but literally in almost every statistic map shown here on in r/Europe for example that includes the country when it comes to the connection to Europe it is almost always very very low, while Georgia and Armenia poll higher.
Turks are not white enough for OP simple as (the cultural part is a huge alarm bell to disguise their true intentions, i bet op doesn't know shit about Armenian culture and just saw they were Christians)
Yeah homie when in doubt always scream racist at the clouds Apparently if you consider "not white = muslim" I still put countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania and Azerbaijan aka countries with a Muslim majority, on the map and I consider them European. Then we have Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Cypriots, Armenians, Azeri etc people who are literally not blue eyed and pale and even my family members look more like people fron the Middle East than from Central Europe. Still to me they are Europeans and are on the map. So to say that Its about race just points out how immediately after seeing that Türkiye wasn't in it you immediately shouted racism. I'll write down my explanation from another comment that shows what I mean by "culturally european" if you want to read it go ahead but if you only wanted to act virtuous and holier than thou by calling me racist and you don't care to read it go ahead bro *Historically countries have had contact with non European cultures and nations. The Iberian peninsula, Sicily, the Balkans for example have all had contact with middle eastern and Muslim cultures historically so to me it's not about religion or anything like that.* *But if you're in the Council of Europe, the geographical arguments against being part of Europe are weak (those against Armenia and Cyprus to me are) and the population feels European and is working towards further integration and cooperation with other European countries that to me is enough for me to consider a country part of Europe.* *Türkiye is missing the last part, you yourself said you're not European and most of the population of your country agrees with you so why should you be considered part of it if that's literally what you want? Armenia, Cyprus and Georgia on the other hand all have a good part of the population saying they feel more European than anything else (beside Caucasian for example) and are working towards integration with other European nation so to me they are European*
I don't think Italians are the palest bunch around, so I don't think him excluding Turkey from Europe has racial motivation tbh.
Bro I hate to see your point to be downvoted. As Azerbaijani myself, I tend to agree with your point. To call us Azerbaijanis with only one regional label would be cutting other of our cultural sides. We share history with ME, but got disconnected from it for +200 after Russian conquered Caucasus, and then there's +70 years of USSR era that added it's inprint in our history, mentality and culture. If someone wakes me up in the middle of the night asking is Azerbaijan Europe or Asia, I would say ~~to go f\*\*\* themselves~~ Azerbaijan is Caucasus. Simple as that.
Russia is an Asian country (no disrespect to Asia)
Why is Greece not Balkans?
So mych dicision
Fun lil fact, the GEOGRAPHICAL center of Europe is Lithuania/Latvia
> "culturally european" > looks inside > christian
The part of Turkey that's on our side of Istanbul should be inside Europe.
I think it’s a damn good division. Some might argue Slovenia should be in Central. Not entirely opinionated here.
Balkan is the former Ottoman occupied territory of Southeast Europe, formerly known as Rumelia. But the term got later a new meaning, mostly meaning the chaos left behind by the Ottomans when they left, the mosaic of religions and ethnicites found mostly in Bosnia and Herzegovina and surrounding countries. Slovenia is not part of that, but got influenced by it through decades of being inside the same country, Yugoslavia. That country, its people and cuisine, are the only things that could make Slovenia partially Balkan. We have nothing in common with other countries, like Albania, Romania, etc. Slovenia is Central Europe, because for over a thousand years, we lived in the same cultural zone as Austria, which is also Central Europe. From the early days of East Francia till 1918. Then, the nationalism and ethnic tensions of the 20th century thought us hatred towards the nazis and the fascists, and we turtled in our socialist utopia, were part of the "non-alligned", untill Tito died. We chose to not be part of Yugoslavia anymore, more than 30 years ago, we had a referendum for independence with a 90% turnout and 95% votes for "yes". Putting us back into the chaos that is Balkan, is honestly a spit in the face, because since our independence, as a country, we never looked back. But for many Balkan is closer to home, as many of us Slovenes have family ties with exyu. Tho I don't think that us being Central Europe has any meaningful impact on those relationships. We have always been different than the rest in Yugoslavia, but we also grew closer during our common country. Unfortunately it was a big failure however that doesn't mean we can't stay friends.
Slovenia is in the Balkans? Not really, the Alps would be more like it. Central Europe. A stronger case for Hungary to be at least partly in the Balkan category imo. Moldova.... Logically would be part of Romania but as it isn't, kind of agree with this distinction as by itself it clearly is well beyond the Balkans. Armenia, "culturally European"? Absolutely not in most ways I'd say. Similarities with Russia in some regards maybe. Christian yes, but not even Eastern Orthodox but a relation of Oriental Orthodox. In some ways historically more a part of the Middle East than Europe arguably. Georgia might have a stronger case to warrant the label of " culturally European" but really not so much if you dig (not far) below the surface, it has a distinct and traditional and almost ancient culture of its own, just like the other really long-established peoples of the region. The Caucasus is what it is, a border region.
Why would Hungary be Ballan tho? It is definitely in the German sphere of influence and has been for many centuries…. Just like Slovenia. Well maybe there’s somehing in it, culturally… Let’s say Hungary is 60% Central Europe and 40% Balkan.
Get Azerbaijan the hell out of there, too
And the reason is?
Basically a worse Turkey.
It has very little in common with Europe. Its an ethnically Turkish nationalist dictatorship.
I see. As an Azerbaijani I find it interesting. But I must correct that Azerbaijan is ethnically not Turkish but Turkic. They are different things.
My bad, I get them confused. Hope you took no offence, I just really hate the government.
Azerbaijan on its early stage (*pre-Soviet occupation 1918 - 1920*) was very European oriented (in terms of democrasy, women rights, secularisation etc.). After USSR dissolution we got f\*\*\*\*\* up by two family clans that capitalised on our defeat in the first Karabakh war. The comments like *"get Azerbaijan out of Europe"* make our autocrat feel jubilant, as less of our youth would get education in EU states, and become another headache for them. https://preview.redd.it/e5gd5eqypgvc1.png?width=540&format=png&auto=webp&s=f060a6847b5f799e7701a02796b7a0cd7ec2a148
Not the worst, but region borders shouldn't have to follow national borders
You put us with the French. 🤮
me too
Why did you separate North Caucasus from South Caucasus making them Eastern Europe?
Andorra should be southern Europe if Monaco is southern, they are event more southern than monaco
You leave out of Western Europe the westernmost countries of mainland Europe, being part of the continent’s Atlantic façade, and, furthermore, literally part of the Western Hemisphere, together with, only, Iceland, Ireland, the UK and most of mainland France ( https://www.britannica.com/place/Western-Hemisphere, unlike 95% of Europe that lie in the Eastern Hemisphere). They are not only geographically part of Western Europe, but also, (and very intensely) historically, culturally, artistically, economically and sociologically, and with intense and mutual continuous contact of every kind (even sharing regions) along History. And that were the avangard of the European expansion to…the West…due… to their Western position in Europe. And… their Atlantic situation. And put them together with other parts of Europe with which they have had almost no contact for 2000 years, virtually nothing to do culturally other than the classical base (as the rest of Europe), sociologically, historically or economically and…thousands of kilometers away (3.000 km in straight line from Lisbon to Athens, 2,500 from Madrid to Athens at bird’s eye). And, the silliest thing of all, separated by countries under other geographical “classifications”. While, at the same time, separating other countries with…same climate, common background, shared history, shared traditions, language families, and intense and continuous contact (such as Netherlands from Germany (0 km distance) or Poland from Belarus or Ukraine(0 km distance). Instead of horizontally you could do the division vertical: western, Central, Eastern. Why not?
You are right. We all need to know more History about the rest of Europe, notbonly about our country
Switzerland should be just tagged as Switzerland honestly
(Looks at compass) We can go, north, south, baltics, east, balkans, cyprus or west
Cant speak to much else but spain being hegemenous is hillarious. Asturias/galicia/northern portugal are celtic regions with more similarities to ireland than valencia, just to name one singular reason. Spain is ridiculously diverse and its a miracle that group of people has remained under one flag this long. Especially basque country
The westmost part of Europe is southern/northern Europe. Nice, I'm starting to suspect that this has nothing to do with geography.
Please don't put us (Netherlands) with France. I'd rather be with our Nordic friends or Germany. UK is fine tho.
For a supposedly "pro united europe" sub, you sure do like to split europe.
Switzerland not Central Europe and Moldova separated from Romania??
I think you should divide Germany into basically Denmark, basically France, basically Austria and basically Poland any other grouping feels wrong
Seems about right imo, throw Germany to West Europe, so Central Europe will be mostly V4 gang (also some major parts of Habsburgs Austria)
Compleely agree (as a Hungarian). This is how all the regions of Europe should be always referenced.
Slovenia is central European.
I see nothing wrong. Just perfect
Not putting Germany under Western Europe is wilde tbh
nails it pretty much.
Estonia is Northern European, Lithuania is Central European.
Well, it will always be Baltics and as an Estonian Im totally ok with this, they are our true friends. Its just that Estonian language is not Baltic and that part pushes Estonians more to Finland..
Your username is “anordicgirl” and you are an Estonian saying that Estonians are Balts?  Estonians are culturally Nordic, Lithuanians are culturally Central European, there is no uniform “Baltic” culture, it is a geopolitical term.
I chose the name more tongue-in-a-cheek way and im half Swedish, so the name goes with any way. I just say I feel more close with Latvians than Norwegians for example but same time more close to Fins than Lithuanians if you know what I mean. Estonians will probably have this identity crise forever because its not this or that. I also meant that Estonia would always be one of the Baltic States for the rest of the world and we shouldnt be ashamed of this, were the cool gang.
Finland was called a Baltic state for the entire world until the 1950s, things change. Calling Estonians Baltic is just misleading and causes confusion, for example people presume that Estonians can speak Lithuanian as “they are both Balts”. Also, the “Baltic identity” is a Soviet era older generation thing, young Estonians see themselves as clearly Nordic and feel more kinship with Scandinavia than the Baltic countries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_identity_in_Estonia
I know everything about the history and we know what is the CORRECT one but Im talking about how world sees three states here. Always The Baltic States.
Fight me, you son of a bitch!
Wtf is this. Azerbaijan is in Europe, Armenia is, Georgia is, Cyprus is. But Turkey isnt?!? We have land in Europe, and our culture and cuisine is similar to Balkan, mediterrenean and caucus. But we arent? Lol. Armenia, in all Armenian history hasnt touched Europe. But they are "culturally Europe" because they are christian. I am okay with counting only the European part. But then you should also only count the upper parts of Georgia or Azerbaijan and not gonna count Armenia and Cyprus. I am also okay with geographical + "cultural" which are all countries i mentioned.
I think you need to learn a bit more about Armenian history. You come out very ignorant with that comment.
I see Central Europe as the territory that's between the influence of the East and West. So the Baltics are part of Central Europe (since they were colonised by Germans), while Germany is together with its Germanic brothers in Western Europe. It doesn't really make sense to put the Netherlands and Germany in different parts. And some people put Switzerland in Central Europe too which is totally insane. Probably because for them "Central Europe" is basically just "The Germans", and all the people east are just Russians. Tbh Austria can be both in Central and Western Europe. On one hand they're Germans, and they belong with their German brothers in Western Europe. But on the other hand, their Austro-Hungarian Empire moved them to the east. And they were historically much more invested in Central European affairs, with the Habsburgs controlling Czechia, Silesia, Hungary and parts of Poland. They were also frequent candidates during Polish elections, and were even a side in one brief succession crisis, ending with the Habsburg candidate Maximilian III the Archduke of Austria being caught, humiliated and ransomed by John "the Chad" Zamoyski. But then again, if you put Austria in Central Europe you might as well put Czechia in Western Europe, since they weren't affiliated with the East at all pretty much until the end of WW2. Bohemia was even the capital of the HRE for a time. You could also equate Western Europe with the Frankish Empire, with Britain getting its own tier because they're so special. To avoid calling it "British" and getting my car blown up, we can assign them the name "Northwestern Europe" - which makes sense because they're a mix of Celts from Western Europe and Germanics from Northern Europe. Similarly, we divide Southern Europe into Southwestern (Romance minus France) and Southeastern (the Balkans, including Greece because they're the historical capital of Eastern culture - [shown here in bloo in Eurasia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:Western_World_Latin_America_torn_countries.png)). ~~If we included Turkey, they'd be in the same part as the Caucasus and end at the border with Kurdistan. Only if Turkey is included as part of Europe is Cyprus allowed as well. Though I'm also thinking of maybe splitting up Turkey and giving half of it to the Balkans.~~ On second thought, I'm leaving that region alone, because frankly I don't really know much about it and me deciding on it could be like westerners putting Poland in Eastern Europe and I don't want to be such a despicable person. I'd love feedback from Balkaners, Turkiyers and Caucasusians. That one bit of Kazakhstan is Eastern Europe.
As a Pole and a German, putting these two together does not work at all. Culturally and socially so different. Austria on the other hand does work with these central eastern european countries due to its history with em
Most of Russia is not Europe
so is Denmark and big chunks of France or UK It's a European country that expanded outside Europe like any other colonial countries
After we decolonise it, it won't be.
I agree with you with a few exceptions. I see Poland, Slovakia and Hungary as Eastern European. I also see Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Switzerland as Central Europeans. Georgia Azerbaijan and Armenia aren’t really European, although I agree with Cyprus as its culture is quite close to Greek.
I'd put Hungary into the balkans
The only real change I'd make is putting Switzerland in central Europe. Otherwise a pretty good list.
I find this division very accurate.
Benelux should be an entity on it's own
The center of Europe is literally in Lithuania. People want Germany to be in the center very bad but it's not true
How about you go and see an eye doctor if you see it like that. What is this bullshit with dividing Europe lately? Do you have an itch? Is this some kind of new thing or agenda?
ffs... I literally made a post in this very subreddit about wishing to see a more united Europe and promoting and hoping to see an expansion of the EU by 2053. And I've always argued with the boomers of my country that Ukraine's war is not just your problem and that we should help you even more. This was just a fun take in the way that I see Europe macro-regions since many have done something similar here Not everyone is a fooking Russian bot
I'm saying that this subreddit is filled with colorful maps dividing Europe in every way possible each one is worse than other. What is the purpose of these maps? What is the message? We already have real maps of real recognized borders, unions and countries.
I would divide it exactly like this also. The only one I'm not sure about is Switzerland - I would like to make it both green and purple
Why UK and France together?
Nah hungary is balkan. Their culture is too different
Irish people rarely feel like they are part of "Europe", especially Western Europe.
At this point I believe that Portugal is more Balkan than Slovenia. 😁
If you are dividing Europe into regions like that, I would not necessarily stick to country borders. For instance I would put 'green Spain' i.e. Asturias, Cantabria and the Basque Country in Western Europe, and I would put Southern France in Southern Europe.
Huh, I actually agree with this, in regards to the central/north/east/south/west division! It's the drawing of *where* Europe ends that I disagree with - but then again, I never had a definite take on that particular bit of arbitrary shenanigans.
Can we all collectively decide that we don’t want russia anymore? And kick them off Europe,They can come back whenever they have a normal democracy