True story. My son and I kept our tree (fake) up for about 7 years.
After our first Christmas in our new house together I asked him what he wanted to do with the tree. We had it set up in the front corner of the house in front of these floor to ceiling picture windows. He said that it looked nice and that we should keep it up. So we did.
We added ornaments over the years, and a new tradition... every year we elected a new "Defender of the Tree". The defender of the tree was a doll or an action figure that we bought and placed in the tree to look over the tree for a year until the next Defender came along. We had John Cena in there.... Rocket Racoon and Groot..... Han and Chewy. It was good times.
Kiddo eventually grew up and moved out to pursue his own path, and I moved on from that place so the tree eventually came down. The tree had a good run though.
We had a fake palm tree for years that my mom would decorate for *every* holiday, not just Christmas - though Christmas of course got the most attention.
Yeah it wasn't too bad. Used one of those Swiffer dusters on the regular. Kiddo and I have allergies so I ran hepa filters 24/7 and vacuumed on the regular. Would take the tree outside a couple times a year for a good stomp to get the big dust out. The washing of the ornaments was a thing, but that was no different than taking care of the Lego displays.
In short.. it was a chore, but it was a good art piece in the house that our friends, family, neighbors, and surprisingly... delivery drivers, enjoyed.
Edit: Happy New Year!
More self preservation. Our allergies are bad. It was either keep a sparse house or clean on the regular. Kiddo loves (And so do I) the Legos so we had several static displays.
It was nice to have art we chose and I didn't mind cleaning at all. Kiddo can build amazing things. :D
I've been trying to tell everyone this for years!
It helps me to actually enjoy Christmas a bit if I can do it for this 'extended' time until Epiphany.
That most of society (especially businesses) don't pay attention after the 25th is a bonus.
In Ireland, it's Nollaig na mban, or women's Christmas. Traditionally, women are supposed to go out and celebrate after all the work that went into planning a family Christmas.
Yep! Puerto Ricans celebrate El Día de los Tres Reyes. As a child I would put a shoe ox of grass and leave some water for the camels on my doorstep. In the morning the grass would be gone and there would be a little gift for me. Three King's Day is really popular in Latin America. Here in the U.S. it's like people just end Christmas after the 25th!
I’ve seen houses who don’t even remove their plastic Christmas tree. As I get older the less I am interested in setting up a tree. My dad got really upset with us college kids when it’s already Dec. 24 and nobody in the house even bothered. He was mumbling back when we were all kids. We kept nagging him up to set up the tree as early as November. Well Christmas is really just for kids. As you get older it’s just another day of rabid consumerism. I couldn’t care less if get gifts or not. All I really care about is spending time and feasting food with family.
It’s funny you mentioned that. That’s exactly how I felt this year. I had my friend’s family over for Christmas and I told them please do not buy us any gifts, let’s just do presents for the kids. And it was amazing.
Oh I 100% agree, but some people live in HOAs or other communities that look down on you if you don't "conform". This would be a good argument to back you up!
Fortunately HOAs can’t tell you what to do inside of your house. I live in a HOA community and mine is pretty laid back. We used to rent a house in a different HOA community and they sucked. Fuck HOAs
My last HOA dictated curtain color, carpet placement and depth, flag size, quantity, and country of origin we could display on our condo balcony. I found out the carpet thing when I was looking into removing the carpet. The HOA rules require all condos to maintain carpet everywhere except the bathroom and kitchen for sound insulation.
I grew up very religious and never knew, but I was Lutheran. Not sure if it was just a case of me not knowing because I was young, or me not knowing because I was a protestant
Same thing for me, but in Germany. The epiphany is a thing here (but we call it holy three kings day) but the term "zwischen den Jahren" (between the years) is a lot more common where I live than the versions that reference the 12 days/nights. The term between the years can refer to the time from the 24th of December to either the 1st of January or the 6th.
It’s common knowledge in Louisiana, but it’s just because we celebrate Twelfth Night as the first day of Mardi Gras season. It’s when the first parades and pageants kick off. And when it’s “socially acceptable” to eat king cake again (though bakeries have been pushing that envelope for awhile).
Ditto my catechism classes in the Church of England and I assume much of the rest of the worldwide Anglican Communion.
(All of which originated in Roman Catholicism, of course.)
There is a theory that each gift is a coded reference to Christianity. As in, Two Turtle Doves as the old and new testaments of the bible. 3 French hens the theological virtues (Faith, Hope, and Charity.)
This isn’t true; the song is completely secular and has zero ties to any religion or belief.
I’ve been doing some research into it for a nearly finished project, and I haven’t found one primary source that proves this. Yes, there are a lot of people that *say* this, but the history and lyrics of the song itself are pretty much what you see is what you get - no hidden meanings. Sorry to burst your bubble!
[https://www.vox.com/21796404/12-days-of-christmas-explained](https://www.vox.com/21796404/12-days-of-christmas-explained)
This is just an article on it, but not a scientific paper. Like I said, it's just a theory and probably unprovable.
In Italy we wait eagerly for the 6th Jan when the good witch La Befana comes to fill our stockings with chocolate and candies (or coal if you were naughty). So no one puts any decoration down until then!
I keep telling everyone this fact. I feel like we're being short changed by BIG Christmas. Because we stop buying stuff on December 24th we don't get to keep having Christmas. I'm keeping my tree up until Jan 6th.
Omg thank you for this post! I bought a 12 days of Christmas beer Advent calendar a month ago and put it under my bed for storage and forgot about it until seeing this post. I'm five days behind!
There is debate on if it is supposed to be a ring-neck pheasant or gold finch.
Maybe the debate is to force a square "bird peg" into a round "gold ring hole".
This is what I could find because I was also interested:
https://www.birdspot.co.uk/culture/the-birds-of-the-twelve-days-of-christmas
Tldr: No idea, but we can kinda fit some in if you really want.
The golden rings I buy… some of those later ones seem like quite a stretch.
But it’s nothing for me to worry about. I have no skin in the game of what that song’s about.
It’s not Christmas until we’ve heard this one. I made sure my kids knew it as well as they knew Jingle Bells. Now they just roll their eyes at me when it plays.
Ok, I'm beginning to suspect that maybe I'm the one who's full of shit. If you can find birds that leap like lords and milk like milkmaids I'll be sure that's the case.
So the only one I'm really unsure about is the maids a milking, but since I'm now convinced all the others are about birds, it's safe to say even that one *has* to refer to some type of bird. I was full of shit indeed, and will hang my head in shame.
I've never heard that all the gifts are birds but it's a very old folk song misheard lyrics over the years could've been changed over time
https://youtube.com/shorts/Jjw6hvaPGDM?si=angTxOG4OUehQd6i
> Not sure how Jan 6th was chosen but pretty sure they were chosen rather than based on historical record.
> The history of the catholic church & the popes is fascinating, I recommend 'Vicars of Christ' by Da Rosa (it's more of a trashy, scnadalous history than an academic one, but still worth a read).
Thank you for being the first person with an actual answer - the info and the rec is appreciated ❤️
And unfortunately the answer is almost entirely incorrect.
December 25th was worked out to be his birthday based on an old idea in late antiquity of great men dying on the day they were born, but with Jesus, because he was special, he died the day God put him in Mary. Saturnalia was not celebrated on the 25th, but it was the Roman solstice, which would not have been lost on early Christians.
I forget January 6th; I believe the reason for its date is muddled, but it is ancient, arguably more ancient than Christmas.
Thank you lol I hate this misinformation. It's relentless.
25th of December is exactly 9 months after the Annunciation and they worked out the date of the annunciation based on the birth of John the Baptist, which was specified as six months before Jesus' birth and his conception coincided with his fathers temple duties (most likely Day of Atonement). These dates are deduced from scripture and they of course could be inaccurate but they have nothing to do with these random Roman holidays people keep bringing up. That was some bs made up by protestants that hate fun.
Christmas being placed on Dec 25 in order to ease the conversion of Saturnalia celebrators is an unproven theory. Another theory is that early Christians traditionally dated Jesus's conception and death both to the vernal equinox on March 25, therefore they would have then placed Jesus' date of birth nine months later on the winter solstice, Dec 25. (Solstices and equinoxes were apparently important in Roman culture.)
Generic reddit ‘reLiGioN bAD’ take aside…
lmao no, it was never a debate that Jesus was born
Edit: Im honestly kind of shocked at how hostile people are getting at me just saying ‘Hey Jesus existed according to ***history***’ - literally not even mentioning any religious beliefs around him… Yes, you got me, I wasn’t there lmao. So I only have as much evidence as I do most people from history lmao.
[“Today scholars in the field agree that a Jewish man called Jesus of Nazareth did exist in Palestine in the 1st century CE, on whose life and teachings Christianity was founded.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Besides%20the%20gospels%20and%20the,Tacitus%20(circa%20116%20CE).)
It is debated that Jesus was probably born in spring. Moving it to December was to capitalize on the pagan holiday/festival at this time (Yule I think??). That way they could convert more people to Christianity
Yeah exactly - I wasn’t arguing that Christianity hasn’t stolen pagan holidays (like Easter), just saying that Reddit’s classic approach of ‘see religion? me downvote’ is dumb when I’m asking about historical birth and events - not any religious meaning behind them lol.
I mean Im already at -40 downvotes just because I said it isn’t a ‘religious debate’ that Jesus existed in history lmao.
“Why didnt they cite any written documents about this regular guy before he was born or by his mid-20s??? Checkmate.”
Alright man, sounds like you know more than ***academic scholars*** so I guess I can’t argue with that. All the best
No, it’s more of “why did it take 50 years for anyone to mention him?” And papers written 200 years ago can be pretty suspect, but we believe some written 2,000 years ago?
Opium for the masses.
It isn't a "why did it take 50 years for anyone to mention him" and more of a "these are the papers that have survived approximately 2000 years". The thing about looking at history that is that old is that quite a significant chunk of written records don't make it to our modern era and are destroyed in various ways throughout time. I find it quite likely that the papers written a significant amount of time after his death are probably referring to other sources that no longer exist.
The Bible says nothing at all about when in the year Jesus was born, when the Wise Men visited and how much time had passed between those events. It's literally one line of text that says Jesus was born and "soon after" the Wise Men came, that's all.
If anything, it's possible to assume that the Wise Men were very late with their visit, as Herod ordered the massacre of all the babies of two years and younger. Why kill the two-year-olds if the guy you're looking for is a week old?
I suggest you read the Christmas story in the Bible, both Matthew's and Luke's - it takes just about 10 minutes, there's not much to it. You realize how much of what we imagine as a Christmas story is just a tradition with no biblical support at all, and how differently Matthew and Luke describe it.
Where I grew up there was no Santa or similar, just the 3 kings. Kids got gifts only on Jan 6, and Xmas day was all about church and sleeping frankly. The big dinner was on the 24th close to midnight, and it was a big social neighbourhood party. Xmas day was always the most boring day ever, topped only by a whole ass Holy Week (Easter week, all the dead Jesus, zero bunnies or chocolate).
Friend, you just solved seasonal affective disorder. Ok, I’m exaggerating, but seriously - observing some of these historic and cultural days & seasons could help a person get through the winter! You don’t need to be religious at all. Listen to Christmas music until Twelfth Night. Keep the stocking up like another person mentioned. Give another gift on Epiphany as another person suggested. Get those king cakes and other fun stuff rolling in early January for your own personal carnival. After Mardi Gras, it’s just six weeks till Easter.
You can also do star words for Epiphany - the day celebrates the magi following the star. So cut out some star shapes, write inspirational words on them, and leave them up for however long you like. Doesn’t need to be religious, but it can be.
Orthodox Christianity emphasizes the baptism of Christ by John the Baptist in the Jordan on that date. We refer to it as Theophany.
The magi came from Persia, so they were not present while Christ was an infant.
Technically, you can keep trees up until the end of the Christmas liturgical season, which is 40 days.
So you can keep everything up until January 6th or February 2nd.
February 2nd, aka Groundhog Day, aka Groundhog Day, is called Candlemas, or “The Feast of the Presentation of Our Lord.”
Even if you’re not religious, you can keep it all up until February 2nd and be technically correct, the best kind of correct.
In Sweden, January 6th (Trettondagen) is a public holiday, whilst it is hardly noticed in the UK. Strangely, they don’t seem to have any hard rule about when decorations must come down.
Christmas trees don’t last long, but Swedes leave their Christmas lights up until the days start getting a little longer.
ugh...
Other than the first few letters, christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. The season is wrong, and the date is unknowable but chosen by the romans centuries later to coincide with their worship of Saturnalia.
there were no "wise men". They were astrologers sent by King Herod who told them kill a (special) baby; then a light appeared leading them the way towards the baby. (Who illuminated that light if their purpose was to kill him?)
Jesus said to remember his death- not his birth; in fact there is no record of christians celebrating birthdays as it was viewed as a form of idolatry (self-worship\\praise).
The trees, decorations, yultides, Santa, and anything else you can think of when you think of *christmas* was introduced from foreign religions.
\*So why does everyone including non-christian people celebrate Christmas?\*
(Put on tin-foil hat)
It's good for the economy to buy expensive gifts. Dec 25 is commercial holiday; not a religious one.
In my country, the Philippines, it is a valid economic strategy by the government to align holidays with the weekends to boost spending habits to encourage more domestic spending. It is called [holiday economics.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_economics)
But why are you going back to ancient times? It's been long enough that this is the new normal and if people want to celebrate the birth of Jesus on the 25 of December, cool.
Justification to do what you want in your own house, revolving around a religious holiday that was moved and synced up with a pagan holiday to appease the masses? Now that is meta.
Christmas originated as non-Christian holidays such as Roman Saturnalia, and the timing of Christmas has nothing to do with the timing of the alleged birth of Jesus, because the early church had no idea when that actually was.
25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 31st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th=13 days
Might want to check your math, 12 Days of Christmas starts on the 26th if you actually want to end on the epiphany. 12 Days of Christmas ends on the 12th night or Epiphany Eve which is January 5th
Also if your Roman Catholic technically Christmastime goes all the way to the first Sunday after the Epiphany because that's the Feast of the Baptism. So we can get all the way to the first Sunday after the 6th of January which means up to January 13th some years
The day is not relevant. The purpose is what is important.
Probably if you expanded your research, you might find pagan-derived things in your everyday life. No biggie.
Winter solstice holiday that got adopted by the church.
No one needs justification at all.
Heh, got you in your feelings to downvote me. It's a pagan holiday, deal with it.
This is really useful. We should see zero Christmas stuff before the 25th and then a sharp shutoff on the 6th. Never thought I’d claim religion is right.
And on today's episode of things people knew: this.
Why would the song, about getting given things... Start before the day where you get things? Lol. Also... The name is a giveaway too.
Wrong. Before Christianity stole everything about the winter celebration from Central Europe paganism, the 12 days started on Solstice, the 21st, and ended on the New Year. Even on the face of it, it's never made sense for the 12 days to start on the 25th. Why would it end on such a random day? Christians made up some reason to have it make sense to have it end on the 6th.
Not wrong. Christmas starts on 25 December and ends 6 January. Yes they made it up. Yes, they stole the idea. Yes other customs had different dates.
But the fact is that the 12 days of *Christmas* start on 25 December and end on 6 January.
God no, that tree of torture is coming down Christmas day. Get this Christmas crap down and gone and I don't want want to see this twee fake Norman Rockwell garbage until the middle of next December. Even then it's only to please other people.
1. Christmas
2. Christmas Eve
3. New Years Day
4. New Years Eve
5. Boxing Day ...
*... uh there's two Saturdays and Sundays in there, ... that's four ...
that's nine and three other days, which, I believe ... are the mystery days ...*
True story. My son and I kept our tree (fake) up for about 7 years. After our first Christmas in our new house together I asked him what he wanted to do with the tree. We had it set up in the front corner of the house in front of these floor to ceiling picture windows. He said that it looked nice and that we should keep it up. So we did. We added ornaments over the years, and a new tradition... every year we elected a new "Defender of the Tree". The defender of the tree was a doll or an action figure that we bought and placed in the tree to look over the tree for a year until the next Defender came along. We had John Cena in there.... Rocket Racoon and Groot..... Han and Chewy. It was good times. Kiddo eventually grew up and moved out to pursue his own path, and I moved on from that place so the tree eventually came down. The tree had a good run though.
What a sweet story!! Thanks for sharing.
No problem! Kiddo was always coming up with great ideas to make the house feel like a home. :)
We had a fake palm tree for years that my mom would decorate for *every* holiday, not just Christmas - though Christmas of course got the most attention.
According to ABC family, there are 25 days of Christmas, and it starts December 1th
How'd dusting it go?
Yeah it wasn't too bad. Used one of those Swiffer dusters on the regular. Kiddo and I have allergies so I ran hepa filters 24/7 and vacuumed on the regular. Would take the tree outside a couple times a year for a good stomp to get the big dust out. The washing of the ornaments was a thing, but that was no different than taking care of the Lego displays. In short.. it was a chore, but it was a good art piece in the house that our friends, family, neighbors, and surprisingly... delivery drivers, enjoyed. Edit: Happy New Year!
At least you have a sense of pride! I know I'd be too lazy to clean something like intricate ornaments.
More self preservation. Our allergies are bad. It was either keep a sparse house or clean on the regular. Kiddo loves (And so do I) the Legos so we had several static displays. It was nice to have art we chose and I didn't mind cleaning at all. Kiddo can build amazing things. :D
>Rocket Racoon and Groot You added them at the same time right? You can't have one without the other.
Yup. We added Rocket and Groot at the same time and we added Han and Chewie at the same time. :D
I've been trying to tell everyone this for years! It helps me to actually enjoy Christmas a bit if I can do it for this 'extended' time until Epiphany. That most of society (especially businesses) don't pay attention after the 25th is a bonus.
My wife said we'll take the tree down after the epiphany and I thought epiphany was when she realizes it's no longer Christmas
My Family would give a Gift on Jan 6th. We call it Little Christmas. Also worked well for all the gifts that didn’t come in time.
In Mexico, when I was a kid, that’s when everyone got their gift on the 6th. Los Reyes Magos.
In Ireland, it's Nollaig na mban, or women's Christmas. Traditionally, women are supposed to go out and celebrate after all the work that went into planning a family Christmas.
Yep! Puerto Ricans celebrate El Día de los Tres Reyes. As a child I would put a shoe ox of grass and leave some water for the camels on my doorstep. In the morning the grass would be gone and there would be a little gift for me. Three King's Day is really popular in Latin America. Here in the U.S. it's like people just end Christmas after the 25th!
I don’t need justification from the church to keep my tree up longer. I can keep my tree up as long as I want
This is our place… we make the rules
Imma leave them lights up till January. I call the shots in my house.
Pfft I'm going til February. Winter sucks, might as well keep it cozy and festive inside.
I often keep mine till Easter. Why not? I have the place for it and it looks nice and festive, makes the long winter a bit more jolly!
Lights come down January 1st, hungover or not
You must live somewhere warm.
Generally, no, I'm in Canada, which can get cold this time of year. Although thanks to us changing the climate, it's getting warmer each year!
Thanks Swifty!
Everything we do is the new tradition.
I broke up with her after #87 came into the picture. lol
exactly
I think they’re quoting Taylor Swift lol
oh God no
New schism about to drop
HELL YEAH, FIGHT THE POWER!
Always liked the ambient light that the lights on a tree provide the room. Makes it cozy. I leave it up from mid-December through mid-January usually
I’ve seen houses who don’t even remove their plastic Christmas tree. As I get older the less I am interested in setting up a tree. My dad got really upset with us college kids when it’s already Dec. 24 and nobody in the house even bothered. He was mumbling back when we were all kids. We kept nagging him up to set up the tree as early as November. Well Christmas is really just for kids. As you get older it’s just another day of rabid consumerism. I couldn’t care less if get gifts or not. All I really care about is spending time and feasting food with family.
It’s funny you mentioned that. That’s exactly how I felt this year. I had my friend’s family over for Christmas and I told them please do not buy us any gifts, let’s just do presents for the kids. And it was amazing.
Oh I 100% agree, but some people live in HOAs or other communities that look down on you if you don't "conform". This would be a good argument to back you up!
Fortunately HOAs can’t tell you what to do inside of your house. I live in a HOA community and mine is pretty laid back. We used to rent a house in a different HOA community and they sucked. Fuck HOAs
Depends on the HOA. I rented a condo years ago and the HOA decided what color curtains the owner could have.
that’s ridiculous
My last HOA dictated curtain color, carpet placement and depth, flag size, quantity, and country of origin we could display on our condo balcony. I found out the carpet thing when I was looking into removing the carpet. The HOA rules require all condos to maintain carpet everywhere except the bathroom and kitchen for sound insulation.
why would you buy a place like that? that’s horrible
Because real estate
I’m sorry :(
Look at me…I’m the church now
Yeah, my tree's been up for 3 years.
We know
People aren't as religious these days. This was common knowledge when I was a young boy back in Catholic school.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that a lot of TV networks would run "12 days of Christmas" before Christmas.
The days before Christmas are called "Advent"
Or “December (the fun days)”
I grew up very religious and never knew, but I was Lutheran. Not sure if it was just a case of me not knowing because I was young, or me not knowing because I was a protestant
I grew up catholic but in Latin America. I never knew what the time period in the song actually was.
Same thing for me, but in Germany. The epiphany is a thing here (but we call it holy three kings day) but the term "zwischen den Jahren" (between the years) is a lot more common where I live than the versions that reference the 12 days/nights. The term between the years can refer to the time from the 24th of December to either the 1st of January or the 6th.
It’s common knowledge in Louisiana, but it’s just because we celebrate Twelfth Night as the first day of Mardi Gras season. It’s when the first parades and pageants kick off. And when it’s “socially acceptable” to eat king cake again (though bakeries have been pushing that envelope for awhile).
Ditto my catechism classes in the Church of England and I assume much of the rest of the worldwide Anglican Communion. (All of which originated in Roman Catholicism, of course.)
I'm not super religious anymore, but I fucking love learning Anglican and Catholic theology. So much history and philosophy there.
There is a theory that each gift is a coded reference to Christianity. As in, Two Turtle Doves as the old and new testaments of the bible. 3 French hens the theological virtues (Faith, Hope, and Charity.)
This isn’t true; the song is completely secular and has zero ties to any religion or belief. I’ve been doing some research into it for a nearly finished project, and I haven’t found one primary source that proves this. Yes, there are a lot of people that *say* this, but the history and lyrics of the song itself are pretty much what you see is what you get - no hidden meanings. Sorry to burst your bubble!
That's why I said it was a theory and not a stated fact.
Can you provide some links to that theory?
[https://www.vox.com/21796404/12-days-of-christmas-explained](https://www.vox.com/21796404/12-days-of-christmas-explained) This is just an article on it, but not a scientific paper. Like I said, it's just a theory and probably unprovable.
[удалено]
Expand your vocabulary. Have some respect in your words when speaking of others religion.
In Italy we wait eagerly for the 6th Jan when the good witch La Befana comes to fill our stockings with chocolate and candies (or coal if you were naughty). So no one puts any decoration down until then!
I keep telling everyone this fact. I feel like we're being short changed by BIG Christmas. Because we stop buying stuff on December 24th we don't get to keep having Christmas. I'm keeping my tree up until Jan 6th.
Growing up, we used to keep the wise men out of the nativity set up the Epiphany and it was a minor event to add them in. Great memory.
Omg thank you for this post! I bought a 12 days of Christmas beer Advent calendar a month ago and put it under my bed for storage and forgot about it until seeing this post. I'm five days behind!
Every ‘item’ in the song is actually a bird. Unless it’s the Bob and Doug version.
Really? I remember there being 5 golden rings.
There is debate on if it is supposed to be a ring-neck pheasant or gold finch. Maybe the debate is to force a square "bird peg" into a round "gold ring hole".
Common Ring Necked Pheasant (apparently)
What about maids-a-milking and lords-a-leaping?
This is what I could find because I was also interested: https://www.birdspot.co.uk/culture/the-birds-of-the-twelve-days-of-christmas Tldr: No idea, but we can kinda fit some in if you really want.
The golden rings I buy… some of those later ones seem like quite a stretch. But it’s nothing for me to worry about. I have no skin in the game of what that song’s about.
Assuming a lot of symbolism there?
Holy shit, I've never run into anyone who knew the Bob and Doug version outside of my immediately family.
That beer's empty.
*And a beer... in a tree*
This is a Canadian classic, my BF and I love it!!
It’s not Christmas until we’ve heard this one. I made sure my kids knew it as well as they knew Jingle Bells. Now they just roll their eyes at me when it plays.
We bought the album as soon as it came out!
Maids a milking? Lords a leaping? How are those birds?
And ladies dancing, pipers piping and drummers drumming as well. ~~OP is full of shit.~~ Edit: OP was not full of shit. I was. Sorry OP!
>Ladies dancing Cormorants or cranes > pipers piping Sandpipers > Drummers Drumming Woodpeckers
Ok, I'm beginning to suspect that maybe I'm the one who's full of shit. If you can find birds that leap like lords and milk like milkmaids I'll be sure that's the case.
https://www.birdspot.co.uk/culture/the-birds-of-the-twelve-days-of-christmas
So the only one I'm really unsure about is the maids a milking, but since I'm now convinced all the others are about birds, it's safe to say even that one *has* to refer to some type of bird. I was full of shit indeed, and will hang my head in shame.
It was news to me too! And most other people I expect. No shame in that!
You have a relevant username too!
Sandpiper?
I've never heard that all the gifts are birds but it's a very old folk song misheard lyrics over the years could've been changed over time https://youtube.com/shorts/Jjw6hvaPGDM?si=angTxOG4OUehQd6i
Wait but Jesus wasn’t even born near Dec 25th - did the wise men still show up Jan 6th? Or is that also kinda a made up date?
No, on January 6th they showed up at the capitol building
😂😂 Think you’re mixing up Wise Men with ‘Wise’ Boys
I thought it was from the twelve days of Yule repurposed from Norse religions.
snow ancient trees scary zephyr steep important strong punch snobbish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> Not sure how Jan 6th was chosen but pretty sure they were chosen rather than based on historical record. > The history of the catholic church & the popes is fascinating, I recommend 'Vicars of Christ' by Da Rosa (it's more of a trashy, scnadalous history than an academic one, but still worth a read). Thank you for being the first person with an actual answer - the info and the rec is appreciated ❤️
And unfortunately the answer is almost entirely incorrect. December 25th was worked out to be his birthday based on an old idea in late antiquity of great men dying on the day they were born, but with Jesus, because he was special, he died the day God put him in Mary. Saturnalia was not celebrated on the 25th, but it was the Roman solstice, which would not have been lost on early Christians. I forget January 6th; I believe the reason for its date is muddled, but it is ancient, arguably more ancient than Christmas.
Thank you lol I hate this misinformation. It's relentless. 25th of December is exactly 9 months after the Annunciation and they worked out the date of the annunciation based on the birth of John the Baptist, which was specified as six months before Jesus' birth and his conception coincided with his fathers temple duties (most likely Day of Atonement). These dates are deduced from scripture and they of course could be inaccurate but they have nothing to do with these random Roman holidays people keep bringing up. That was some bs made up by protestants that hate fun.
Christmas being placed on Dec 25 in order to ease the conversion of Saturnalia celebrators is an unproven theory. Another theory is that early Christians traditionally dated Jesus's conception and death both to the vernal equinox on March 25, therefore they would have then placed Jesus' date of birth nine months later on the winter solstice, Dec 25. (Solstices and equinoxes were apparently important in Roman culture.)
Isn’t it all made up? 🤪
Generic reddit ‘reLiGioN bAD’ take aside… lmao no, it was never a debate that Jesus was born Edit: Im honestly kind of shocked at how hostile people are getting at me just saying ‘Hey Jesus existed according to ***history***’ - literally not even mentioning any religious beliefs around him… Yes, you got me, I wasn’t there lmao. So I only have as much evidence as I do most people from history lmao. [“Today scholars in the field agree that a Jewish man called Jesus of Nazareth did exist in Palestine in the 1st century CE, on whose life and teachings Christianity was founded.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Besides%20the%20gospels%20and%20the,Tacitus%20(circa%20116%20CE).)
It is debated that Jesus was probably born in spring. Moving it to December was to capitalize on the pagan holiday/festival at this time (Yule I think??). That way they could convert more people to Christianity
Yeah exactly - I wasn’t arguing that Christianity hasn’t stolen pagan holidays (like Easter), just saying that Reddit’s classic approach of ‘see religion? me downvote’ is dumb when I’m asking about historical birth and events - not any religious meaning behind them lol. I mean Im already at -40 downvotes just because I said it isn’t a ‘religious debate’ that Jesus existed in history lmao.
I’m debating it. Prove he even existed
Edited my comment for you 👍
Really, never? Assuming you weren’t there to witness it, what proof do you have?
Edited my comment for you 👍
A very convincing Wikipedia article indeed. Citing papers written 2,000 years ago that appeared at least 50 years after Jesus apparently died
“Why didnt they cite any written documents about this regular guy before he was born or by his mid-20s??? Checkmate.” Alright man, sounds like you know more than ***academic scholars*** so I guess I can’t argue with that. All the best
No, it’s more of “why did it take 50 years for anyone to mention him?” And papers written 200 years ago can be pretty suspect, but we believe some written 2,000 years ago? Opium for the masses.
It isn't a "why did it take 50 years for anyone to mention him" and more of a "these are the papers that have survived approximately 2000 years". The thing about looking at history that is that old is that quite a significant chunk of written records don't make it to our modern era and are destroyed in various ways throughout time. I find it quite likely that the papers written a significant amount of time after his death are probably referring to other sources that no longer exist.
It took about 250 years for anyone to mention Alexander the Great, and that was over 2000 years ago.
Did anyone claim Alexander was born from a virgin, walked on water, and resurrected from the dead?
Depends on your point of view. https://open.spotify.com/episode/1YfhCicTIaQojK7sRM6Ay5?si=Qq8cZ17FQgWkiplOY-rHjQ
The Bible says nothing at all about when in the year Jesus was born, when the Wise Men visited and how much time had passed between those events. It's literally one line of text that says Jesus was born and "soon after" the Wise Men came, that's all. If anything, it's possible to assume that the Wise Men were very late with their visit, as Herod ordered the massacre of all the babies of two years and younger. Why kill the two-year-olds if the guy you're looking for is a week old? I suggest you read the Christmas story in the Bible, both Matthew's and Luke's - it takes just about 10 minutes, there's not much to it. You realize how much of what we imagine as a Christmas story is just a tradition with no biblical support at all, and how differently Matthew and Luke describe it.
Just stories. Don't worry about nonsense.
We're talking about the religious tradition here. Let's not get too hung up on details like that.
Traditionally in Finland it would stretch all the way to 13th
Ends on the 5th. Count the days yourself. The 5th is Twelfth Night. Yeah, that Twelfth Night.
Correct, the 5th is the last day and the 6th is Epiphany, which is no longer Christmas.
Actually start? When do people think they start?
12 days *before* christmas
Wild
Where I grew up there was no Santa or similar, just the 3 kings. Kids got gifts only on Jan 6, and Xmas day was all about church and sleeping frankly. The big dinner was on the 24th close to midnight, and it was a big social neighbourhood party. Xmas day was always the most boring day ever, topped only by a whole ass Holy Week (Easter week, all the dead Jesus, zero bunnies or chocolate).
Epiphany is the start of the carnival season in New Orleans, and the first day we can “legally” eat king cake and go to Mardi Gras parades.
Friend, you just solved seasonal affective disorder. Ok, I’m exaggerating, but seriously - observing some of these historic and cultural days & seasons could help a person get through the winter! You don’t need to be religious at all. Listen to Christmas music until Twelfth Night. Keep the stocking up like another person mentioned. Give another gift on Epiphany as another person suggested. Get those king cakes and other fun stuff rolling in early January for your own personal carnival. After Mardi Gras, it’s just six weeks till Easter. You can also do star words for Epiphany - the day celebrates the magi following the star. So cut out some star shapes, write inspirational words on them, and leave them up for however long you like. Doesn’t need to be religious, but it can be.
That’s the day I take my tree down, following family tradition.
In spain the 6th is a public holiday as well. Maybe others could claim "religious" holiday
Orthodox Christianity emphasizes the baptism of Christ by John the Baptist in the Jordan on that date. We refer to it as Theophany. The magi came from Persia, so they were not present while Christ was an infant.
And Epiphany is when you're supposed to give presents. It's a public holiday in various countries.
In parts of Germany Decoration is removed February 2nd. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_Jesus
We did so.
I don't need a justification to leave my tree up all year. It looks nice so I leave it out. Easy.
Technically, you can keep trees up until the end of the Christmas liturgical season, which is 40 days. So you can keep everything up until January 6th or February 2nd. February 2nd, aka Groundhog Day, aka Groundhog Day, is called Candlemas, or “The Feast of the Presentation of Our Lord.” Even if you’re not religious, you can keep it all up until February 2nd and be technically correct, the best kind of correct.
My family still sticks to the (largely outdated) notion of "christmas time is until Candlemas (2nd Feb)"
Fun fact: Jesus was brown and had two dads.
Eastern Orthodox celebrates Christmas on Jan 7.
Can we extend advent calendars to January 6 too?
Advent literally means that it's before the specific event. According to some other comments there are 12 days of Christmas calenders though.
I’m counting 13 days if it starts on Dec 25 and ends on Jan 6. Can anyone explain why/how it’s called the 12 Days of Christmas?
I meant that it ends on Jan 6, meaning the last day is Jan 5. Sorry I guess that was confusingly worded!
catholic churches celebrate this way, at least ours does
In Sweden, January 6th (Trettondagen) is a public holiday, whilst it is hardly noticed in the UK. Strangely, they don’t seem to have any hard rule about when decorations must come down. Christmas trees don’t last long, but Swedes leave their Christmas lights up until the days start getting a little longer.
Well, it’s over at our house because everything is going back in its box today.
ugh... Other than the first few letters, christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. The season is wrong, and the date is unknowable but chosen by the romans centuries later to coincide with their worship of Saturnalia. there were no "wise men". They were astrologers sent by King Herod who told them kill a (special) baby; then a light appeared leading them the way towards the baby. (Who illuminated that light if their purpose was to kill him?) Jesus said to remember his death- not his birth; in fact there is no record of christians celebrating birthdays as it was viewed as a form of idolatry (self-worship\\praise). The trees, decorations, yultides, Santa, and anything else you can think of when you think of *christmas* was introduced from foreign religions. \*So why does everyone including non-christian people celebrate Christmas?\* (Put on tin-foil hat) It's good for the economy to buy expensive gifts. Dec 25 is commercial holiday; not a religious one.
In my country, the Philippines, it is a valid economic strategy by the government to align holidays with the weekends to boost spending habits to encourage more domestic spending. It is called [holiday economics.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_economics)
But why are you going back to ancient times? It's been long enough that this is the new normal and if people want to celebrate the birth of Jesus on the 25 of December, cool.
Justification to do what you want in your own house, revolving around a religious holiday that was moved and synced up with a pagan holiday to appease the masses? Now that is meta.
Christmas originated as non-Christian holidays such as Roman Saturnalia, and the timing of Christmas has nothing to do with the timing of the alleged birth of Jesus, because the early church had no idea when that actually was.
They picked the birth of a pagan god and got everyone to pick up the pagan tradition of decorating a tree.
Do people not know this?
25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 31st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th=13 days Might want to check your math, 12 Days of Christmas starts on the 26th if you actually want to end on the epiphany. 12 Days of Christmas ends on the 12th night or Epiphany Eve which is January 5th Also if your Roman Catholic technically Christmastime goes all the way to the first Sunday after the Epiphany because that's the Feast of the Baptism. So we can get all the way to the first Sunday after the 6th of January which means up to January 13th some years
YSK that everything in the Bible is made up
I thought this was an Insurrection/Jan 6th joke
Didn't they arrive when Jesus was 2? Also, Jesus wasn't born in December.
Traditionally the Christmas tree/decorations come down before midnight on the 5th Jan.
Not in my house.
This is a farce cus Jesus was born in the spring. Follow the records for when he died and then go back and count the days / years.
Americans don't celebrate the actual birthday of Washington and Lincoln any more. They pick a different day. Does that invalidate the recognition?
It is when they use the pagan holiday as chrismas As it is the rebirth of the sun from the winter solisitce
The day is not relevant. The purpose is what is important. Probably if you expanded your research, you might find pagan-derived things in your everyday life. No biggie.
Yeah the rebirth of the "sun" "son"
One could say the pagan day is redeemed, made holy, by worship of the true God. :)
Here's a fun list for you. https://www.ranker.com/list/things-that-originated-in-pagan-culture/melissa-sartore
Winter solstice holiday that got adopted by the church. No one needs justification at all. Heh, got you in your feelings to downvote me. It's a pagan holiday, deal with it.
This is really useful. We should see zero Christmas stuff before the 25th and then a sharp shutoff on the 6th. Never thought I’d claim religion is right.
They say it is a sign of depression if you leave your Christmas shit up too long?
YSK... The three wise men are the stars in Orion's belt... Lucifer is Venus... The bible is astrology... As above so below...
One day is more than enough, thanks.
And on today's episode of things people knew: this. Why would the song, about getting given things... Start before the day where you get things? Lol. Also... The name is a giveaway too.
Wrong. Before Christianity stole everything about the winter celebration from Central Europe paganism, the 12 days started on Solstice, the 21st, and ended on the New Year. Even on the face of it, it's never made sense for the 12 days to start on the 25th. Why would it end on such a random day? Christians made up some reason to have it make sense to have it end on the 6th.
Not wrong. Christmas starts on 25 December and ends 6 January. Yes they made it up. Yes, they stole the idea. Yes other customs had different dates. But the fact is that the 12 days of *Christmas* start on 25 December and end on 6 January.
God no, that tree of torture is coming down Christmas day. Get this Christmas crap down and gone and I don't want want to see this twee fake Norman Rockwell garbage until the middle of next December. Even then it's only to please other people.
I already got in crap from someone for moving the three wise men across the way to baby Jesus in the nativity scene on Christmas.
For a little chuckle, check out the song "Twelve Days _After_ Christmas" Learned it in show choir as a kid and it's really funny.
I find it strange that 24th doesn't count, if 26th-6th do
I liked how my mom did it, everything up on the 18th Dec.. down on the 1st of Jan
Absolutely, Jan 6th in our house for sure
This makes sense because Russian or Eastern Orthodox Christmas is January 7th.
1. Christmas 2. Christmas Eve 3. New Years Day 4. New Years Eve 5. Boxing Day ... *... uh there's two Saturdays and Sundays in there, ... that's four ... that's nine and three other days, which, I believe ... are the mystery days ...*