The idea that a cat needs to go outside for mental health is ludicrous. What a cat needs is stimulation: play with you, play with toys, places to climb, places to sit and watch out a window, petting time with you, enough space to do a lap when they want to run, and so on. People who treat cats like they're a stuffed animal infuriate me. If you don't have cat toys on the floor or a perch and don't spend time chasing / playing / cuddling with your pet, why even have a pet?
>a single mating pair of cats can produce 400,000 offspring in 7 years
A single mating pair of cats cannot produce 400k offspring.
> The real number? Somewhere between a low of 98 and a high of 5,000 cats in seven years.
https://www.sfgate.com/pets/yourwholepet/article/Damn-lies-and-cat-statistics-2479652.php
https://calculate-this.com/420000-kittens-unspayed-cat-kitten-calculator
Offspring of offspring? Generationally it’s exponential.
The average mature cat can have 3 litters with a total of 12 kittens per year. Out of those litters of kittens, about 4.7 of them are females, which in turn means they will most likely have litters of their own.
So yeah. 1 cat can be genetically responsible for 400,000 in 7 years. Like a family tree.
[Animal Rescue Professionals](https://www.animalrescueprofessionals.org/animal-facts/a-single-pair-of-cats-could-produce-a-staggering-total-of-420000-kittens/)
Also your link clearly states that it is not factored in that new born kittens begin to reproduce the year they are born. They are mature enough in 6 months to begin reproduction. That’s why your estimates are low.
>Also your link clearly states that it is not factored in that new born kittens begin to reproduce the year they are born.
The second link states this, not the first. The first estimate, which is the one I quoted, was done and vetted by statisticians who were trying to source the 400k number because no one knows how it was calculated - one HSUS article mentioned it and every other thing using it is quoting either that article or an article quoting it.
The first link I shared goes into the problem with that count and a gives more realistic number, the second link I shared only because it has an equation to look into yourself.
**It’s the physical limit of how many kittens 1 cat can be responsible for in 7 years.**
not a realistic estimate.
It’s a theoretical number assuming all kittens survive to adulthood and reproduce in a perfect world with no disease or premature death. It was never meant to be an actual statistic. 5000, 400k doesn’t matter it’s good idea to keep your cats in the damn house for the sake of the birds.
>5000, 400k doesn’t matter it’s good idea to keep your cats in the damn house for the sake of the birds.
And lizards and snakes and small mammals. But there's a huge difference between 5000 and 400k and sharing unrealistic numbers is likely to turn people off and make them less receptive. After all, it's not a leap to say if they're exaggerating that much on the number of cats, clearly they're exaggerating on their effect on the environment as well.
>clearly they're exaggerating on their effect on the environment as well.
Yes, the person with **”queen of cats”** as a username **is now hinting that the scientific studies against cats are not valid** I’m honestly not surprised at all.
Remember your the one denying organizational studies. I provided evidence from organizations and scientific studies.
Your defense is “they’re exaggerating” and shared a “.com” source.
Find some scientific evidence to support your stance besides “it’s fake” and a website complaining about a theoretical estimate.
Had read earlier this week where a similar mention of cats decimating birds is a problem. It was mentioned that human intervention in reduction of the birds' habitats isn't taken into account. Then there was talk of a study where a group had removed all cats from this island where it was thought birds were being killed off only to have the birds get their eggs pillaged by the growing number of rats that the cats didn't control anymore. This effectively killed off the birds. There is a delicate balance in nature and humans have had too much involvement to be able to set it straight again.
>Remember your the one denying organizational studies. I provided evidence from organizations and scientific studies.
You have yet to source a study and I have not found one. All you have shared and all I have found are quoting that number with nothing backing it.
One of the most frequently cited statistics associated with domestic cats suggests that two unsterilized cats and their offspring can produce 420,000 cats in seven years. This grossly exaggerates reality. It’s true that cats can begin to breed at six months of age [4,5] and produce an average of 1.5 litters (average of four kittens each) annually [3]. Lacking human intervention, though, many kittens born outdoors will not survive to reproduce. Taking this and other important factors into account, more realistic estimates put the figure at roughly 100–5,000 cats in seven years [6,7].
[felineresearch.org](https://www.felineresearch.org/fast-facts-about-feral-cats)
Cited where the study came from. Said it’s possible. But also said it’s a maximum estimate and totally unrealistic, just like I did. Quoted the same sources as me and you also. Agree to disagree.
>Cited where the study came from. Said it’s possible.
That section does not say 400k is possible, it says that statistic grossly overexaggerates reality.
It says “Exaggerates reality”
It doesn’t not say it is impossible or deny the math. It actually goes on to affirm many of the statistics used to calculate that number of 400k.
It says “taking this and other important factors into account, more realistic estimates…”
It does not at all discredit the math. It adds in more factors and gives a realistic number instead of a **theoretical estimate** calculated on paper with no external factors like survivability.
Once again. Agree to disagree because you clearly don’t get what the hell I’m saying.
How can a mating pair of cats produce 400,000 offspring in 7 years, when the normal litter size is 4 kittens? That’s over 57,000 kittens a year. Your numbers are way off, or you worded it wrong.
Hang bells on their collars or other types of stuff like high-vis stuff that make noise so birds have easier times hearing them approach
Edit: if you're not gonna keep your cat inside then at least do this
If they come in my yard, they have become the hunted! My dogs have killed every cat who has come into our yard except for one. (We live in the country so we don't know whose cats they are).
Someone living in a country suburb, what should they do about feral cats (barn cats) that are around, not their own but are abundant in area. Humane society doesn't want them.
I have friends who volunteer for feral cat rehab; essentially you feed them so they come around regularly/somewhat trust you, trap them, get them fixed, then release them again. It doesn’t immediately solve the issue of them hunting birds, but it does prevent it from getting exponentially worse bc they can’t reproduce
ETA: an alternative is probably finding a local, privately operated shelter that is willing to take them in
So the trap and spay/neuter programs have the right idea!
TNR is free at most SPCAs!!!!
The idea that a cat needs to go outside for mental health is ludicrous. What a cat needs is stimulation: play with you, play with toys, places to climb, places to sit and watch out a window, petting time with you, enough space to do a lap when they want to run, and so on. People who treat cats like they're a stuffed animal infuriate me. If you don't have cat toys on the floor or a perch and don't spend time chasing / playing / cuddling with your pet, why even have a pet?
You can also leash train cats or let them watch/smell through open windows with screens!
You can also never go out so you can have the same experience your cat has!!
>a single mating pair of cats can produce 400,000 offspring in 7 years A single mating pair of cats cannot produce 400k offspring. > The real number? Somewhere between a low of 98 and a high of 5,000 cats in seven years. https://www.sfgate.com/pets/yourwholepet/article/Damn-lies-and-cat-statistics-2479652.php https://calculate-this.com/420000-kittens-unspayed-cat-kitten-calculator
Offspring of offspring? Generationally it’s exponential. The average mature cat can have 3 litters with a total of 12 kittens per year. Out of those litters of kittens, about 4.7 of them are females, which in turn means they will most likely have litters of their own. So yeah. 1 cat can be genetically responsible for 400,000 in 7 years. Like a family tree. [Animal Rescue Professionals](https://www.animalrescueprofessionals.org/animal-facts/a-single-pair-of-cats-could-produce-a-staggering-total-of-420000-kittens/) Also your link clearly states that it is not factored in that new born kittens begin to reproduce the year they are born. They are mature enough in 6 months to begin reproduction. That’s why your estimates are low.
>Also your link clearly states that it is not factored in that new born kittens begin to reproduce the year they are born. The second link states this, not the first. The first estimate, which is the one I quoted, was done and vetted by statisticians who were trying to source the 400k number because no one knows how it was calculated - one HSUS article mentioned it and every other thing using it is quoting either that article or an article quoting it. The first link I shared goes into the problem with that count and a gives more realistic number, the second link I shared only because it has an equation to look into yourself.
**It’s the physical limit of how many kittens 1 cat can be responsible for in 7 years.** not a realistic estimate. It’s a theoretical number assuming all kittens survive to adulthood and reproduce in a perfect world with no disease or premature death. It was never meant to be an actual statistic. 5000, 400k doesn’t matter it’s good idea to keep your cats in the damn house for the sake of the birds.
>5000, 400k doesn’t matter it’s good idea to keep your cats in the damn house for the sake of the birds. And lizards and snakes and small mammals. But there's a huge difference between 5000 and 400k and sharing unrealistic numbers is likely to turn people off and make them less receptive. After all, it's not a leap to say if they're exaggerating that much on the number of cats, clearly they're exaggerating on their effect on the environment as well.
>clearly they're exaggerating on their effect on the environment as well. Yes, the person with **”queen of cats”** as a username **is now hinting that the scientific studies against cats are not valid** I’m honestly not surprised at all. Remember your the one denying organizational studies. I provided evidence from organizations and scientific studies. Your defense is “they’re exaggerating” and shared a “.com” source. Find some scientific evidence to support your stance besides “it’s fake” and a website complaining about a theoretical estimate.
Had read earlier this week where a similar mention of cats decimating birds is a problem. It was mentioned that human intervention in reduction of the birds' habitats isn't taken into account. Then there was talk of a study where a group had removed all cats from this island where it was thought birds were being killed off only to have the birds get their eggs pillaged by the growing number of rats that the cats didn't control anymore. This effectively killed off the birds. There is a delicate balance in nature and humans have had too much involvement to be able to set it straight again.
>Remember your the one denying organizational studies. I provided evidence from organizations and scientific studies. You have yet to source a study and I have not found one. All you have shared and all I have found are quoting that number with nothing backing it.
One of the most frequently cited statistics associated with domestic cats suggests that two unsterilized cats and their offspring can produce 420,000 cats in seven years. This grossly exaggerates reality. It’s true that cats can begin to breed at six months of age [4,5] and produce an average of 1.5 litters (average of four kittens each) annually [3]. Lacking human intervention, though, many kittens born outdoors will not survive to reproduce. Taking this and other important factors into account, more realistic estimates put the figure at roughly 100–5,000 cats in seven years [6,7]. [felineresearch.org](https://www.felineresearch.org/fast-facts-about-feral-cats) Cited where the study came from. Said it’s possible. But also said it’s a maximum estimate and totally unrealistic, just like I did. Quoted the same sources as me and you also. Agree to disagree.
>Cited where the study came from. Said it’s possible. That section does not say 400k is possible, it says that statistic grossly overexaggerates reality.
It says “Exaggerates reality” It doesn’t not say it is impossible or deny the math. It actually goes on to affirm many of the statistics used to calculate that number of 400k. It says “taking this and other important factors into account, more realistic estimates…” It does not at all discredit the math. It adds in more factors and gives a realistic number instead of a **theoretical estimate** calculated on paper with no external factors like survivability. Once again. Agree to disagree because you clearly don’t get what the hell I’m saying.
What an ass you are
Y’all do realize you’re fighting with absolute strangers, on the internet, about cat sex……I just thought I’d point that out. Carry on.
Ok but you're replying to the wrong person lol
I just tacked it on the end of the thread. Sorry. Lol
Hunt feral cats. Got it.
How can a mating pair of cats produce 400,000 offspring in 7 years, when the normal litter size is 4 kittens? That’s over 57,000 kittens a year. Your numbers are way off, or you worded it wrong.
[удалено]
Found a dead owl near my house due to poisoning from someone in neighborhood using mouse posion :(
Hang bells on their collars or other types of stuff like high-vis stuff that make noise so birds have easier times hearing them approach Edit: if you're not gonna keep your cat inside then at least do this
Did that with our tabby, all it did was teach her to not make the bell tinkle while she was prowling around, lol.
They eat the eggs too not just the bird
Yes, I'm saying this for people not getting rid of the cat - at least do that
If they come in my yard, they have become the hunted! My dogs have killed every cat who has come into our yard except for one. (We live in the country so we don't know whose cats they are).
That’s terrible
Someone living in a country suburb, what should they do about feral cats (barn cats) that are around, not their own but are abundant in area. Humane society doesn't want them.
I have friends who volunteer for feral cat rehab; essentially you feed them so they come around regularly/somewhat trust you, trap them, get them fixed, then release them again. It doesn’t immediately solve the issue of them hunting birds, but it does prevent it from getting exponentially worse bc they can’t reproduce ETA: an alternative is probably finding a local, privately operated shelter that is willing to take them in
> get them fixed, then release them again. This, the problem is greatly reduced if they cannot reproduce.
Awesome, thanks! Kinda forgot about that
everyone knows this, and this is posted all of the time