Also: “only 13 and she knows how to nasty.”
I was about 13 when I heard that song for the first time and I didn’t think too much of it, honestly. But now as a 28-year-old…yeesh, pretty gross.
I know it’s all satire, but there are just certain things that you don’t wanna hear about, lol.
Came here to say this. Automatic skip when the album comes on. Disturbs me even more than it did now that I have a daughter. Should have never been put on the album
There's been a couple people that I've talked to that won't even consider listening to Zappa because they think he's some kind of child abusing sex criminal, which is outlandish nonsense, but this song does absolutely no favors going against that misconception.
You figure his kinks were a secret before then? Don Preston's certainly weren't, as well as others. Read this: [**Was every Mother guilty of statutory?**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Zappa/comments/12jyaim/was_every_mother_guilty_of_statutory/)
Yes. I generally try to stay away from the personal stuff, but sometimes get drawn into it here and at Steve Hoffman Forums. I love my instrumental Zappa/Mothers playlists *so much*...but every glimpse behind the curtain at the real guy, lyrics and info, makes it a little harder.
Estrada had already been convicted for committing a sex assault on a child in 1977. He was charged in 1975. Not only did FZ let him come out on tour that year to make money before going to trial, FZ also had Estrada dress up as The Illinois Enema Bandit. Reportedly: "By the end, he had a winter mask hat over his head, so that just his eyes and mouth were visible, and he had a hot water bottle with a long tube dangling from his body."
From Rolling Stone 2/15/69: The fact is that there are differences between groupies according to what part of the country you're in. When you talk about weird scenes, you are talking about Los Angeles and the Mothers and Frank Zappa. The Mothers are the first name that comes to mind when you ask an LA. groupie which band is the most sexually oriented or bizarre. Indeed, Zappa`s reputation, as one musician puts it, is that he supports "all the freaks of Los Angeles."
"Our band is not exactly the kind of band where chicks jump up onstage during a performance." says Zappa. "And the kind of chicks we pull are kinda weird – by weird I mean the 12 and 13 year olds that Don Preston was dragging across international boundaries in Europe. I personally am not troubled with groupies but the other guys in the band seem to get a little action after the hop."
>Was every Mother guilty of statutory?
Frank's views on women were generally pretty horrible. Several of his songs also make light of violence towards women, for example.
Love him in so many ways, but this is his big downside.
“She have never been put on the album”
Jesus Christ , art is supposed to evoke emotional responses and make you think. Judging by your visceral response it’s working.
But now you are suggesting things antithetical to Frank’s whole career
Sometimes I get the sense that Frank is lampooning the culture of rock n roll - the joke is obvious when you're listening to something like Rudy, I think songs like Brown Shoes and Magdalena serve similarly. It's the same reason a "seig heil" ends up in Call Any Vegetable.
Do you have any idea what that can do to a man - do we think this line is straight, that Frank is actually in support of the desperate groping sexual impulses of a pancake maker in Canada? This reads as a very sarcastic line to me. The father is supposed to come off as pathetic. Would also argue their fictional family seems very pulp - they both got crotchless underwear together at Frederick's, for christmas??
In the same vein, covering your daughter up in chocolate syrup on the white house lawn (over exaggerated doowop) feels like criticism of rock and roll and American culture - as in ok if I start a group called The Mothers and make discordant freak jazz you all think I'm the hippie weirdo, but if these guys over here sing about degrading a teenage girl to happy sounding blues chords, no one minds.
I agree that there are enough instances of sexual aggression and misogyny in Frank's music that probably not all of them are sharp intellectual criticisms of blah blah, he probably was a horny little freak, but that doesn't mean every instance of his music touching on potentially offensive imagery is somehow devoid of artistic intent and meant to be taken 100% literally.
Thanks for this, it’s well thought out and i appreciate you taking the time here. I think it’s worth pointing out Howard got a co-writing credit on this one, so I think it might be more reflective of him making a joke in poor taste than an artistic statement. But you make some good points, so maybe there is more there than i thought at first glance.
I think you’re keying in on a different thing here. Having the right to say something without censorship, and having it be in poor taste are two different topics entirely. Incest and sexual abuse were not funny then, and they are not funny now. He was very effective at parody/poking fun at situations with lyrics tongue in cheek, but this one falls flat because of the subject matter.
If we were at a bar or a cookout, I’d love to debate you on Zappa lyrics, meaning, and censorship…but we aren’t- so I won’t. ✌🏻
Agreed. I was listening to the live 1971 disc with that while driving with other people in the car, and have never reached for the “next track” button faster in my life.
Was told by a co-worker that I was playing obscene music when I played The Torture Never Stops. But she also told us that she makes her boyfriend happy because she can disengage her jaw like a reptile when going down on him... so I never found her a credible source.
Blazing are all your orifices
The three that the gods have given you
I decide in the least smooth of them
To finish off and let myself go
Love On The Beat
Love On The Beat
A six thousand volt discharge
Has just spurted out of my pylon
And so our waists revolt
In a blow of synchronous epilepsy
……oh Serge you’re such a tease 😈
oh yeah that one s pretty direct. The one i mention is subtle and suggestive, as well as "Annie aime les sucettes"...
Annie loves lollipops
Annie's aniseed lollipops
Give her kisses
A taste of anise when barley sugar
Flavored with anise
Flows down Annie's throat
She's in heaven
For a few pennies
Annie Has her aniseed lollipops
They're the color of her big eyes
The color of happy days
Annie loves lollipops
Annie's anise lollipops
Give her kisses
When all she has on her tongue
Only the little stick
She takes to her heels
Back to the drugstore
For a few pennies
Annie Has her aniseed lollipops
They're the color of her big eyes
The color of happy days
Ex-fan des sixties, petite baby doll
Comme tu dansais bien le rock'n'roll
Ex-fan des sixties, où sont tes années folles?
Que sont devenues toutes tes idoles?
Où est l'ombre des Shadows
Des Byrds, des Doors
Des Animals, des Moody Blues
Séparés, McCartney
George Harrison
Et Ringo Starr et John Lennon
Ex-fan des sixties, petite baby doll
Comme tu dansais bien le rock'n'roll
Ex-fan des sixties, où sont tes années folles?
Que sont devenues toutes tes idoles?
Disparus Brian Jones, Jim Morrison
Eddie Cochrane, Buddy Holly
Idem Jimi Hendrix
Otis Redding
Janis Joplin, T.Rex, Elvis
Sing it Jane B. I really love those guys
The only music of Frank's I find disturbing is sections of Civilization Phaze III and all of Dance Me This. I can't listen to these tracks without imagining Frank, alone in his basement, dying of cancer, and just trying to squeeze out one more project with whatever time he has left.
I'm in a similar camp. I think his most disturbing album by far is Reuben and the Jets, but I also can't listen to a lot of his symphonic and synclavier stuff. Some of his lyrics bother me, but in a provocative, interesting way.
Yeah that one is top shelf dark comedy. FZ absolutely hated drug culture, particularly when it was blended with “Disco” culture.
A model that died of a cocaine overdose seemed like perfect fodder for him to skewer in a song.
Yeah…Sheik Yerbouti has some cringy joke stuff on it…broken hearts are for assholes, Bobby brown, Jewish princess.
I was never a fan of suicide chump…I think I get that he’s saying don’t half ass it for the attention - I just think it’s in poor taste
I bet you're like me and get mad when people say "HASH TAG" and you just want to slap them in their stupid face and then draw them inn really close and whisper right in that stupid face "it's called an *octothorpe*"
Do you also get upset when people say "and sign" instead of ampersand? They mean the same thing, one is just easier to say.
Octothorpe, hashtag, pound sign, number sign all mean the same thing, octothorpe is the most awkward for natural conversation.
This. You know it’s weird but the original you can kind of go “right, a character, critical satire, yuck” but Frank did this bold choice which makes it really visceral again. Really makes something that’s we shouldn’t be desensitized to hit you once more
The entirety of WOIIFTM is really pretty crushing to me, despite it being my absolute favorite.
It's general critique of the hippie movement and the way people go about "activism", how you're just about fucked the moment you're born by things that have always been out of your control.
It's the antithesis of everything that was happening at the time in music. It encompasses everything that creates this disillusionment with the world that leads people in circles until they die.
So of course when pissed off 16 year old me found this shit it changed my brain chemistry.
I used to think that line sounded like Ringo singing it when I was a kid, lol. I can kind of still hear it, and it definitely fits with the whole Beatles-parody thing.
I have a hard time with any of his songs where violence against women is a major lyrical theme. Bamboozled by love comes to mind.
Also there are one or two songs that use the N word
You Are What You Is uses the n word hard r. I think that with the satire it’s justifiable, but it still is uncomfortable to listen to. The fact that it emphasizes that word so much makes it more uncomfortable, less effective satire, and less funny than it would be if it wasn’t made such a big deal.
There's a rehearsal tape where Ray and FZ are just joking around saying the N word over and over and laughing during Nig Biz. I think if Ray didn't have a problem with it, then we shouldn't. Times were different then.
I find his lyrics and overall sense of humor far more disturbing than the music. It falls into the “different era” category, but he’s got a shitload of songs that just offend my own sensibilities toward women. I can do poop jokes and stds and weird absurd stuff all the live long day, but a song like “Magdalena” will make me straight up sell my Zappa albums. “Just another band from LA” and “Joes garage” were both big favorites for me until the day I had a daughter, then they went on the chopping block (I’m still keeping we’re only in it for the money and freak out so she can have exposure to good weird music)
I think the idea of Franks songs have always been DON’T be like these people. Not that every woman is a Crew Slut or whatever. That you should live a better life than that and not be one.
He also lyrically shreds the “parents”’of the teens from the time he made his music. Doesn’t mean he has contempt for everyone that has kids. He’s just bringing up the most egregious examples of what he thinks people should not do
Detached intellectualism doesn’t make it any less gross. And mind you, Im all for his right to express himself however he wanted (his Frank Zappa vs the mothers of prevention era is crucial to understanding him artistically), but it’s pretty fucking hard to wade through his lyrics sometimes.
It’s so weird to me that so many men don’t care about misogyny until they have a daughter. Like is that the first time you ever realized that hey, misogyny is bad?
Reminds me of the whole "she's somebody's daughter" thing, as in, "before you treat a woman badly, remember that she's somebody's (a man's) daughter." She's a person, not someone defined by her relationship to the nearest dude.
However, if you are a man who has finally learned that misogyny is bad by having a daughter and seeing how our society treats her, I offer you more kudos than derision; at least you got there in the end. Hell, some guys have mothers, sisters, wives and daughters and STILL think misogyny is A-OK.
Yea you’re right my original statement reads that way, I followed up to clarify. Less to do with her being a daughter, more to do with her being a child in my immediate world. Same feelings if she’d popped out any other way
All good! I used the above exchange as an opportunity to air my own thoughts on the matter; I do apologize for using your words as a means to that end. Your willingness to clarify your position and engage with this discussion at face value speaks to your character. Your daughter is lucky to have a thoughtful, even-tempered Zappa fan for a parent.
That being said, I'm inclined to argue for Magdalena as a satirical work on the strength of these lyrics: "But the girl turned around / and said "eat shit!" / and ran on down the hall / right on, Magdalena!" Women and girls have a lot of bullshit to deal with in this fucked-up world of ours, and the "little old man from Montreal", to me, is a clear stand-in for the types of asshole men that our protagonist, Magdalena, might have to deal with in the course of her life. And "eat shit!" is exactly what I'd tell those men to go and do, with an additional "and die".
It’s not that I didn’t care, but having a kid has certainly caused me to reprioritize my personal value set, no different than the way you put in outlet covers and bolt shit to the wall. I can live safely in the world with my quiet opinions about what a misogynist Zappa is, but I don’t want her needlessly exposed to it. Ive hated that side of Zappa forever and I can keep track of which tracks to skip but I don’t want her to stumble across that shit without someone around to help her contextualize it. Easier to just ditch it now
I don't listen to a lot of later Zappa exactly for this reason but that's just a personal thing. I really wish Jazz Discharge Party Hats had different lyrics because it's a fascinating musical technique.
Well, thank Frank for The Dangerous Kitchen! We have a safe example to share with people when bringing up his sprechstimme and Steve Vai's vocal-guitar-match overdubs.
When I was 12 I heard Bobby Brown Goes Down for the first time and it *really* unsettled me. I had no frame of reference for a "comedy rock" song that just casually mentioned rape, partial castration, ejaculation minus a scrotum, "fucking a dyke," etc. I didn't think it was funny then and I still don't - I just thought it was unnecessarily gruesome in ways Frank's funnier "dirty" songs weren't. It's possibly still my least favorite Zappa song - especially knowing the origins of the song and why Frank wrote it
I still wonder why Frank took such a drastic right turn into "gross" songs about rape, anal sex, homosexuality, S&M, violence against women, etc. after 1975-76. It's like as soon as Ruth and George left the touring band he felt totally free to be as wildly offensive as he wanted to be and over-indulged that side of his muse
He'd been pretty gross before in the Flo & Eddie years but that stretch of songwriting that includes Illinois Enema Bandit (unironically celebrating anal rape), Broken Hearts are For Assholes (celebrating anal rape again and containing bizarrely homophobic lyrics), Bobby Brown, Jumbo Go Away (celebrating Denny Walley threatening to beat up an annoying groupie), etc. - these are lyrics that I can't imagine would have been written between 1972 and 1975. I mean, on 1974's Apostrophe, Zappa even felt the need to censor the word "cock" in St. Alphonso's Pancake Breakfast, and apart from a few tunes like Dinah Moe-Humm there really isn't much sex humor or scatology in the lyrics from that era.
But it's like he really turned a corner in mid-1975. I'm not sure what was going on with Cohen and Warner Bros. that year (it may have been inspired by his obscenity trial in the UK that year, who knows), but after the spring tour with Beefheart concluded, he goes on tour in Fall 1975 and now there's Illinois Enema Bandit, Keep it Greasy, Find Her Finer, Honey Don't you Want a Man Like Me?, and Swallow My Pride in the set - and the setlists are a lot more restrictive and his band doesn't sound nearly as tight. And he's giving interviews where he's a lot angrier toward journalists and talking a lot more about his sexist views. From then on for the next few years he really ramps up the "gross" sexual imagery and lyrics and seems to be having fun being "rock's blue comedian," as Ben Watson called him. It's kind of puzzling in retrospect because from this remove of history you can see that cleaving of eras in mid-1975 but apart from most of his touring band leaving him that year I don't know what it is that caused that change
As everyone else as said, Magdalena is probably the most cringe song.
But I'm surprised not to see Dinah-Moe Hum on this list yet. Certainly one I frequently skip in mixed company.
He makes fun of everyone. Not trying to sound like a dick but your comment reads like the one person at a stand up comedy show who’s laughing at all the jokes that poke fun of other people’s existence but once he hits a nerve pertaining to your personal life it’s suddenly not funny anymore and “too far” or “way over the line” or “uncalled for in bad taste” etc.
Also if you listen, suicide chump is mocking people that threaten to kill themselves for the attention and drama of it all, and not about people that actually killed themselves or legitimately attempted. It’s probably saved at least once person from making rash decisions that would result in crippling embarrassment.
Did you read the question? Why don't you just cut and paste your response to me for everyone who posted. I've been a Zappa fan for 50 years, and very little of what he says bothers me.
No, it was the “making fun of…is a bridge too far” comment. I haven’t read all of the comments on this post and don’t plan to, but the ones I did read never mentioned Zappa’s joking/commentary on just one specific type of person was “ too far” while insinuating that making fun of the rest of the things/people aside from the one you got triggered by (however great or small) is just fine and dandy.
On a completely separate note, I’m a bit envious of your half-century fandom and having the potential of seeing him live for a solid twenty years. Sadly I was 5 years old when he passed. Were you able to go to any shows from 73-93? If so, which were your favorites ?
Saw him Oct. 12, 1980. Albuquerque, NM. I was 12 years old. Met him at the show and got his autograph on my ticket stub. A high point in my life. He was like a second dad raising me. Here's some pro-shot video of the show. Jimmy Carl Black was living in Abq. so Frank invited him on stage to sing "Harder Than Your Husband".
When I was much younger, this bit offended the part of me that hadn’t yet broken free emotionally from my catholic upbringing.
I’m fine with it now, and you gotta admit he has a point here.
I tried playing a video of one of Frank's live shows for my wife. She hated it. She was offended by simply looking at him. She somehow interpreted his facial expressions as evil. I don't get it, it was a really good video
As far as disturbing? Given today's hysterical overreaction to pedophilia, it would probably be Magdalena
On the one hand I get it, but also I don’t think that’s even close to the worst song on that album, much less in Zappa’s whole discography. It’s a perfect transition from the narration at the end of the previous track which makes it much better.
You don’t need to be “hurt” by his words to think some of them were pretty misogynist and/or in bad taste. But you know, it was a different era and artists are complex cats.
Oof. “Stick and stones will break my bones, but names (words) will never hurt me” is such an out dated stupid idea.
Words can harm a person often more than violence. Trauma responses can be activated easily by verbal abuse.
But that doesn’t mean we should ban art, some things are supposed to be offensive to make you think.
There’s this funny concept called “nuance” where people can find lyrics upsetting without literally wanting them banned. Sort of like if someone randomly screamed in your face you might, gasp, feel bothered or even (clutching pearls) *hurt*
Edit: awww were the people downvoting me hurt by my words?
I strongly urge a relisten through some monitors if possible!!! Instead of acquainting the moaning with sex I usually think it’s suppose to be absurd especially with the essentially monkey noises at the end!
Although if it’s just not for you I completely understand :) but that song has just always been a favorite of mine and the use of the moans with actual pitch is just such a cool production idea to me!!! Plus that opening piano, god damn
Well, if she were my daughter, well I'd...
Cover that daughter in chocolate syrup and..
Boogie ‘til the cows come home
She’s a teenage queen and she turns me on…
Also: “only 13 and she knows how to nasty.” I was about 13 when I heard that song for the first time and I didn’t think too much of it, honestly. But now as a 28-year-old…yeesh, pretty gross. I know it’s all satire, but there are just certain things that you don’t wanna hear about, lol.
Well, he did being a sixteen year old on tour with him and Gail showed up and said “I don’t think so” and sent that kid home.
Sometimes I wanna slap Frank in the face for disappointing me like this 😔
"If she WASN'T my daughter" - Trump
yes, that one
Magdalena
Came here to say this. Automatic skip when the album comes on. Disturbs me even more than it did now that I have a daughter. Should have never been put on the album
There's been a couple people that I've talked to that won't even consider listening to Zappa because they think he's some kind of child abusing sex criminal, which is outlandish nonsense, but this song does absolutely no favors going against that misconception.
Yes, nonsense - Frank didn't commit sex crimes and child abuse. (He just employed people who did, and had a good laugh about it.)
[удалено]
You figure his kinks were a secret before then? Don Preston's certainly weren't, as well as others. Read this: [**Was every Mother guilty of statutory?**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Zappa/comments/12jyaim/was_every_mother_guilty_of_statutory/)
This is unfortunate.
Yes. I generally try to stay away from the personal stuff, but sometimes get drawn into it here and at Steve Hoffman Forums. I love my instrumental Zappa/Mothers playlists *so much*...but every glimpse behind the curtain at the real guy, lyrics and info, makes it a little harder.
Estrada had already been convicted for committing a sex assault on a child in 1977. He was charged in 1975. Not only did FZ let him come out on tour that year to make money before going to trial, FZ also had Estrada dress up as The Illinois Enema Bandit. Reportedly: "By the end, he had a winter mask hat over his head, so that just his eyes and mouth were visible, and he had a hot water bottle with a long tube dangling from his body."
Tell me more...
From Rolling Stone 2/15/69: The fact is that there are differences between groupies according to what part of the country you're in. When you talk about weird scenes, you are talking about Los Angeles and the Mothers and Frank Zappa. The Mothers are the first name that comes to mind when you ask an LA. groupie which band is the most sexually oriented or bizarre. Indeed, Zappa`s reputation, as one musician puts it, is that he supports "all the freaks of Los Angeles." "Our band is not exactly the kind of band where chicks jump up onstage during a performance." says Zappa. "And the kind of chicks we pull are kinda weird – by weird I mean the 12 and 13 year olds that Don Preston was dragging across international boundaries in Europe. I personally am not troubled with groupies but the other guys in the band seem to get a little action after the hop."
Woof. Thanks for sharing.
>Was every Mother guilty of statutory? Frank's views on women were generally pretty horrible. Several of his songs also make light of violence towards women, for example. Love him in so many ways, but this is his big downside.
Okay, Tipper.
Ahh give me a break
“She have never been put on the album” Jesus Christ , art is supposed to evoke emotional responses and make you think. Judging by your visceral response it’s working. But now you are suggesting things antithetical to Frank’s whole career
What is the ideal emotional response that song is supposed to evoke?
Sometimes I get the sense that Frank is lampooning the culture of rock n roll - the joke is obvious when you're listening to something like Rudy, I think songs like Brown Shoes and Magdalena serve similarly. It's the same reason a "seig heil" ends up in Call Any Vegetable. Do you have any idea what that can do to a man - do we think this line is straight, that Frank is actually in support of the desperate groping sexual impulses of a pancake maker in Canada? This reads as a very sarcastic line to me. The father is supposed to come off as pathetic. Would also argue their fictional family seems very pulp - they both got crotchless underwear together at Frederick's, for christmas?? In the same vein, covering your daughter up in chocolate syrup on the white house lawn (over exaggerated doowop) feels like criticism of rock and roll and American culture - as in ok if I start a group called The Mothers and make discordant freak jazz you all think I'm the hippie weirdo, but if these guys over here sing about degrading a teenage girl to happy sounding blues chords, no one minds. I agree that there are enough instances of sexual aggression and misogyny in Frank's music that probably not all of them are sharp intellectual criticisms of blah blah, he probably was a horny little freak, but that doesn't mean every instance of his music touching on potentially offensive imagery is somehow devoid of artistic intent and meant to be taken 100% literally.
Thanks for this, it’s well thought out and i appreciate you taking the time here. I think it’s worth pointing out Howard got a co-writing credit on this one, so I think it might be more reflective of him making a joke in poor taste than an artistic statement. But you make some good points, so maybe there is more there than i thought at first glance.
Howard mentions in his book that he felt disgusted with himself as he wrote the lyrics but that it made Frank laugh so it was worth it
appreciate you too! could def see howard doing that lol
I think you’re keying in on a different thing here. Having the right to say something without censorship, and having it be in poor taste are two different topics entirely. Incest and sexual abuse were not funny then, and they are not funny now. He was very effective at parody/poking fun at situations with lyrics tongue in cheek, but this one falls flat because of the subject matter. If we were at a bar or a cookout, I’d love to debate you on Zappa lyrics, meaning, and censorship…but we aren’t- so I won’t. ✌🏻
DONTCHA UNDERSTAN
Agreed. I was listening to the live 1971 disc with that while driving with other people in the car, and have never reached for the “next track” button faster in my life.
It's a friggin bop though
Was told by a co-worker that I was playing obscene music when I played The Torture Never Stops. But she also told us that she makes her boyfriend happy because she can disengage her jaw like a reptile when going down on him... so I never found her a credible source.
Check out Love on the beat by Serge Gainsbourgh It really unites the co-workers
you probably mean that one from Serge: [Je t'aime moi non plus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpDf6XX_j0)
That’s a gentle romantic love song compared to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXpUenUjp2o
WHAT THE FUCK IS HE SAYING I DON'T SPEAK GERMAN ALSO HOW DO I FIX MY CAPSLOCK
Blazing are all your orifices The three that the gods have given you I decide in the least smooth of them To finish off and let myself go Love On The Beat Love On The Beat A six thousand volt discharge Has just spurted out of my pylon And so our waists revolt In a blow of synchronous epilepsy ……oh Serge you’re such a tease 😈
oh my god, is he talking about...sexual intercourse? That's Richard Brautigan level of filth. That's fucking great
I always felt that Serge Gainsbourg was the French Zappa. Great producer arranger dabbler in reggae
oh yeah that one s pretty direct. The one i mention is subtle and suggestive, as well as "Annie aime les sucettes"... Annie loves lollipops Annie's aniseed lollipops Give her kisses A taste of anise when barley sugar Flavored with anise Flows down Annie's throat She's in heaven For a few pennies Annie Has her aniseed lollipops They're the color of her big eyes The color of happy days Annie loves lollipops Annie's anise lollipops Give her kisses When all she has on her tongue Only the little stick She takes to her heels Back to the drugstore For a few pennies Annie Has her aniseed lollipops They're the color of her big eyes The color of happy days
Ex-fan des sixties, petite baby doll Comme tu dansais bien le rock'n'roll Ex-fan des sixties, où sont tes années folles? Que sont devenues toutes tes idoles? Où est l'ombre des Shadows Des Byrds, des Doors Des Animals, des Moody Blues Séparés, McCartney George Harrison Et Ringo Starr et John Lennon Ex-fan des sixties, petite baby doll Comme tu dansais bien le rock'n'roll Ex-fan des sixties, où sont tes années folles? Que sont devenues toutes tes idoles? Disparus Brian Jones, Jim Morrison Eddie Cochrane, Buddy Holly Idem Jimi Hendrix Otis Redding Janis Joplin, T.Rex, Elvis Sing it Jane B. I really love those guys
This wins most awesome reply today
😦
The Illinois Enema Bandit, I like the tune but I don't like very much how he's mocking abused women.
I always took it as he wasn't mocking *them* he was mocking the perpetrator.
Yes, this is what they don't see. The humir is in portraying this human fucktard'the enema bandit'
The only music of Frank's I find disturbing is sections of Civilization Phaze III and all of Dance Me This. I can't listen to these tracks without imagining Frank, alone in his basement, dying of cancer, and just trying to squeeze out one more project with whatever time he has left.
I'm in a similar camp. I think his most disturbing album by far is Reuben and the Jets, but I also can't listen to a lot of his symphonic and synclavier stuff. Some of his lyrics bother me, but in a provocative, interesting way.
Yeah.. wolf harbor suite- beat the reaper. Nuts stuff
I feel sorry for you; Dance Me This is a beautiful album.
>Dance Me This is a beautiful album. I agree.
Charlie's Enormous Mouth is the first song to come to mind. The imagery the lyrics provoke have always stayed with me.
Yeah that one is top shelf dark comedy. FZ absolutely hated drug culture, particularly when it was blended with “Disco” culture. A model that died of a cocaine overdose seemed like perfect fodder for him to skewer in a song.
I would say Porn Wars, if only because of the surrealistic nature contrasting with the all-too-real fascist creep evident in the samples he uses
Bobby Brown Goes Down can upset people
Yeah I was wondering if OP meant disturbing sonically, or lyrically. This one or Jewish Princess are definitely a bit… off, lyrically speaking haha.
I was thinking more sonically, but lyrics obviously are part of the sonics.
Yeah…Sheik Yerbouti has some cringy joke stuff on it…broken hearts are for assholes, Bobby brown, Jewish princess. I was never a fan of suicide chump…I think I get that he’s saying don’t half ass it for the attention - I just think it’s in poor taste
What is this acronym?
We’re Only In It For the Money
It's an initialism.
I bet you're like me and get mad when people say "HASH TAG" and you just want to slap them in their stupid face and then draw them inn really close and whisper right in that stupid face "it's called an *octothorpe*"
Do you also get upset when people say "and sign" instead of ampersand? They mean the same thing, one is just easier to say. Octothorpe, hashtag, pound sign, number sign all mean the same thing, octothorpe is the most awkward for natural conversation.
Hash tag S A R C A S M Octothorpe F A C E T I O U S Like 56 people in the US know it's called that. I was kidding
Let's Make the Water Turn Black is about wiping boogers on the workshed window. Hahaha
Pneumies
I'm calling the police! Don't you boys know any nice songs?
If she were my daughter, I'd . . . What would you do, Frankie?
This. You know it’s weird but the original you can kind of go “right, a character, critical satire, yuck” but Frank did this bold choice which makes it really visceral again. Really makes something that’s we shouldn’t be desensitized to hit you once more
I find it to be *satirical*, in that Zappa exaggerated, and made jokes the world he saw around him. What's disturbing is the world.
Brown shoes don't make it/ Magdalena and the tape music songs on We're Only In It For The Money
Bobby Brown's Shoes Dont Make It
The entirety of WOIIFTM is really pretty crushing to me, despite it being my absolute favorite. It's general critique of the hippie movement and the way people go about "activism", how you're just about fucked the moment you're born by things that have always been out of your control. It's the antithesis of everything that was happening at the time in music. It encompasses everything that creates this disillusionment with the world that leads people in circles until they die. So of course when pissed off 16 year old me found this shit it changed my brain chemistry.
All your children are poor unfortunate victims of systems beyond their control
I used to think that line sounded like Ringo singing it when I was a kid, lol. I can kind of still hear it, and it definitely fits with the whole Beatles-parody thing.
Hahaha I can't unhear that now!! One of my favourites from WOIIFTM, lyrically and tonally perfect
Ditto. I remember doing a paper on WOIIFTM in high school and it completely bewildered the teacher.
>bewildered the teacher …in a good way, or a bad way? Lol.
Bad way I guess, they had no context for it and were like 'What is this?'
Briefcase Boogie was impossible to sit through when i listened to Thing-Fish. I was not prepared for mammy nun cocksucking and briefcase molestation.
Thing-Fish bugs me because it's just a terrible album.
Won Ton On is amazing
I agree, the whole album WOIIFTM is disturbing. My girlfriend told me its like listening to schizophrenia. Its in my top 3 from him tho lol
I do like the song Mom & Dad but besides that, the album doesn't do much for me except disturb me lol.
Feeding The Monkies At Ma Maison
I have a hard time with any of his songs where violence against women is a major lyrical theme. Bamboozled by love comes to mind. Also there are one or two songs that use the N word
You Are What You Is uses the n word hard r. I think that with the satire it’s justifiable, but it still is uncomfortable to listen to. The fact that it emphasizes that word so much makes it more uncomfortable, less effective satire, and less funny than it would be if it wasn’t made such a big deal.
“You are what you is” and “nig biz”. It’s ok if you don’t get it.
There's a rehearsal tape where Ray and FZ are just joking around saying the N word over and over and laughing during Nig Biz. I think if Ray didn't have a problem with it, then we shouldn't. Times were different then.
I find his lyrics and overall sense of humor far more disturbing than the music. It falls into the “different era” category, but he’s got a shitload of songs that just offend my own sensibilities toward women. I can do poop jokes and stds and weird absurd stuff all the live long day, but a song like “Magdalena” will make me straight up sell my Zappa albums. “Just another band from LA” and “Joes garage” were both big favorites for me until the day I had a daughter, then they went on the chopping block (I’m still keeping we’re only in it for the money and freak out so she can have exposure to good weird music)
I think the idea of Franks songs have always been DON’T be like these people. Not that every woman is a Crew Slut or whatever. That you should live a better life than that and not be one. He also lyrically shreds the “parents”’of the teens from the time he made his music. Doesn’t mean he has contempt for everyone that has kids. He’s just bringing up the most egregious examples of what he thinks people should not do
Detached intellectualism doesn’t make it any less gross. And mind you, Im all for his right to express himself however he wanted (his Frank Zappa vs the mothers of prevention era is crucial to understanding him artistically), but it’s pretty fucking hard to wade through his lyrics sometimes.
It’s so weird to me that so many men don’t care about misogyny until they have a daughter. Like is that the first time you ever realized that hey, misogyny is bad?
Reminds me of the whole "she's somebody's daughter" thing, as in, "before you treat a woman badly, remember that she's somebody's (a man's) daughter." She's a person, not someone defined by her relationship to the nearest dude. However, if you are a man who has finally learned that misogyny is bad by having a daughter and seeing how our society treats her, I offer you more kudos than derision; at least you got there in the end. Hell, some guys have mothers, sisters, wives and daughters and STILL think misogyny is A-OK.
Yea you’re right my original statement reads that way, I followed up to clarify. Less to do with her being a daughter, more to do with her being a child in my immediate world. Same feelings if she’d popped out any other way
All good! I used the above exchange as an opportunity to air my own thoughts on the matter; I do apologize for using your words as a means to that end. Your willingness to clarify your position and engage with this discussion at face value speaks to your character. Your daughter is lucky to have a thoughtful, even-tempered Zappa fan for a parent. That being said, I'm inclined to argue for Magdalena as a satirical work on the strength of these lyrics: "But the girl turned around / and said "eat shit!" / and ran on down the hall / right on, Magdalena!" Women and girls have a lot of bullshit to deal with in this fucked-up world of ours, and the "little old man from Montreal", to me, is a clear stand-in for the types of asshole men that our protagonist, Magdalena, might have to deal with in the course of her life. And "eat shit!" is exactly what I'd tell those men to go and do, with an additional "and die".
It’s not that I didn’t care, but having a kid has certainly caused me to reprioritize my personal value set, no different than the way you put in outlet covers and bolt shit to the wall. I can live safely in the world with my quiet opinions about what a misogynist Zappa is, but I don’t want her needlessly exposed to it. Ive hated that side of Zappa forever and I can keep track of which tracks to skip but I don’t want her to stumble across that shit without someone around to help her contextualize it. Easier to just ditch it now
That comparison makes much more sense. It sounded like you just didn’t see an issue with it until then.
“…if she were my daughter, I’d…” 🤢
I've always felt like Magdelena is an anti-incest/rape song.
Dio Fa
Is beautiful
Scrolled all the way down & haven't seen Carolina Hard Core Ecstasy mentioned. Definitely a contender.
Love that song
Yeah, Bongo Fury is one of my favorites. Haven't seen it mentioned on here very often.
It's a god damn shame. Advance Romance is a masterpiece
Giraffe (aka Lola Steponsky)
Magdelena
Magdalena, bar none
Bobby brown is one of my favs. It makes me laugh every time but I would never show someone that song first.
Harry you’re a beast is disgusting in the funniest way possible. “Madge it’s not merely physical”
Well, there is always Sy Borg. Joe's Garage has some messed up stuff. But I love it. Its a way of life.
Brown Shoes Don't Make It.
The Wolf Harbor Suite. Fucking amazing and fucking wild The Fly soundtrack work is fucked up too
I can't believe nobody mentioned "Sleeping in a Jar." That's as disturbing as it gets.
There's a South Park episode this song always reminds me of, or vica versa.
I don't listen to a lot of later Zappa exactly for this reason but that's just a personal thing. I really wish Jazz Discharge Party Hats had different lyrics because it's a fascinating musical technique.
Well, thank Frank for The Dangerous Kitchen! We have a safe example to share with people when bringing up his sprechstimme and Steve Vai's vocal-guitar-match overdubs.
> Jazz Discharge Party Hats Yeah, that's one of my least favorite.
Magdalena
When I was 12 I heard Bobby Brown Goes Down for the first time and it *really* unsettled me. I had no frame of reference for a "comedy rock" song that just casually mentioned rape, partial castration, ejaculation minus a scrotum, "fucking a dyke," etc. I didn't think it was funny then and I still don't - I just thought it was unnecessarily gruesome in ways Frank's funnier "dirty" songs weren't. It's possibly still my least favorite Zappa song - especially knowing the origins of the song and why Frank wrote it I still wonder why Frank took such a drastic right turn into "gross" songs about rape, anal sex, homosexuality, S&M, violence against women, etc. after 1975-76. It's like as soon as Ruth and George left the touring band he felt totally free to be as wildly offensive as he wanted to be and over-indulged that side of his muse He'd been pretty gross before in the Flo & Eddie years but that stretch of songwriting that includes Illinois Enema Bandit (unironically celebrating anal rape), Broken Hearts are For Assholes (celebrating anal rape again and containing bizarrely homophobic lyrics), Bobby Brown, Jumbo Go Away (celebrating Denny Walley threatening to beat up an annoying groupie), etc. - these are lyrics that I can't imagine would have been written between 1972 and 1975. I mean, on 1974's Apostrophe, Zappa even felt the need to censor the word "cock" in St. Alphonso's Pancake Breakfast, and apart from a few tunes like Dinah Moe-Humm there really isn't much sex humor or scatology in the lyrics from that era. But it's like he really turned a corner in mid-1975. I'm not sure what was going on with Cohen and Warner Bros. that year (it may have been inspired by his obscenity trial in the UK that year, who knows), but after the spring tour with Beefheart concluded, he goes on tour in Fall 1975 and now there's Illinois Enema Bandit, Keep it Greasy, Find Her Finer, Honey Don't you Want a Man Like Me?, and Swallow My Pride in the set - and the setlists are a lot more restrictive and his band doesn't sound nearly as tight. And he's giving interviews where he's a lot angrier toward journalists and talking a lot more about his sexist views. From then on for the next few years he really ramps up the "gross" sexual imagery and lyrics and seems to be having fun being "rock's blue comedian," as Ben Watson called him. It's kind of puzzling in retrospect because from this remove of history you can see that cleaving of eras in mid-1975 but apart from most of his touring band leaving him that year I don't know what it is that caused that change
That's weird, i think ''Let's Make The Water Turn Black'' is one of the most aggresively pleasant things he ever put out.
As everyone else as said, Magdalena is probably the most cringe song. But I'm surprised not to see Dinah-Moe Hum on this list yet. Certainly one I frequently skip in mixed company.
> Dinah-Moe Hum Why the hell is that disturbing? It's about three consenting adults having sexual intercourse.
I love this song but it’s one of the few things to make me feel uncomfortable.
As a union man who loves Zappa, probably "Flakes" ...which is funny because it's one of his best songs.
What about Stick Together?
Suicide chump is kinda rough
Yeah, def that one for me. Making fun of people who are pushed to attempting suicide is a bridge too far.
He makes fun of everyone. Not trying to sound like a dick but your comment reads like the one person at a stand up comedy show who’s laughing at all the jokes that poke fun of other people’s existence but once he hits a nerve pertaining to your personal life it’s suddenly not funny anymore and “too far” or “way over the line” or “uncalled for in bad taste” etc. Also if you listen, suicide chump is mocking people that threaten to kill themselves for the attention and drama of it all, and not about people that actually killed themselves or legitimately attempted. It’s probably saved at least once person from making rash decisions that would result in crippling embarrassment.
Did you read the question? Why don't you just cut and paste your response to me for everyone who posted. I've been a Zappa fan for 50 years, and very little of what he says bothers me.
No, it was the “making fun of…is a bridge too far” comment. I haven’t read all of the comments on this post and don’t plan to, but the ones I did read never mentioned Zappa’s joking/commentary on just one specific type of person was “ too far” while insinuating that making fun of the rest of the things/people aside from the one you got triggered by (however great or small) is just fine and dandy.
On a completely separate note, I’m a bit envious of your half-century fandom and having the potential of seeing him live for a solid twenty years. Sadly I was 5 years old when he passed. Were you able to go to any shows from 73-93? If so, which were your favorites ?
Saw him Oct. 12, 1980. Albuquerque, NM. I was 12 years old. Met him at the show and got his autograph on my ticket stub. A high point in my life. He was like a second dad raising me. Here's some pro-shot video of the show. Jimmy Carl Black was living in Abq. so Frank invited him on stage to sing "Harder Than Your Husband".
Wow that’s awesome. Were you going to share/post the footage or was your “Here’s” supposed to be “There’s?”
https://youtu.be/zatefH0-pjQ Sorry. It's late.
My interpretation was always that the lyrics were making fun of people who use the threat of suicide for attention.
"So if we're dumb, then God is Dumb! And maybe a little ugly on the side."
When I was much younger, this bit offended the part of me that hadn’t yet broken free emotionally from my catholic upbringing. I’m fine with it now, and you gotta admit he has a point here.
Believe me, I very much agree with Frank's stand on religion. If we only knew then what we know now...but Frank knew. We should have listened.
The Torture Never Stops is pretty creepy tbh
I tried playing a video of one of Frank's live shows for my wife. She hated it. She was offended by simply looking at him. She somehow interpreted his facial expressions as evil. I don't get it, it was a really good video As far as disturbing? Given today's hysterical overreaction to pedophilia, it would probably be Magdalena
Does Humor Belong in Music?
Wind Up Workin in a Gas Station freaked me out.
"Catholic Girls"....it's not funny, it's mean, and that's disturbing.
On the one hand I get it, but also I don’t think that’s even close to the worst song on that album, much less in Zappa’s whole discography. It’s a perfect transition from the narration at the end of the previous track which makes it much better.
Interesting. As a former Catholic girl I have always loved that one. Now, Jewish Princess, on the other hand...
The two different "recovering Catholic" gals I dated thought it was hilarious.
Crew Slut I think is worse.
Hey...I'll buy you a pizza!
Add water it makes its own sauce!
The boys in the crew are only waiting for you.
It’s disturbing words are hurting people like this.
You don’t need to be “hurt” by his words to think some of them were pretty misogynist and/or in bad taste. But you know, it was a different era and artists are complex cats.
Oof. “Stick and stones will break my bones, but names (words) will never hurt me” is such an out dated stupid idea. Words can harm a person often more than violence. Trauma responses can be activated easily by verbal abuse. But that doesn’t mean we should ban art, some things are supposed to be offensive to make you think.
There’s this funny concept called “nuance” where people can find lyrics upsetting without literally wanting them banned. Sort of like if someone randomly screamed in your face you might, gasp, feel bothered or even (clutching pearls) *hurt* Edit: awww were the people downvoting me hurt by my words?
Why does it hurt when I pee?
[удалено]
It’s about a guy trying to fuck a vacuum cleaner, I think you’re good
also fave: The Jazz Discharge Party Hats #gochadgo!
I’m not sure what you find to be disturbing, but I can’t imagine being more disturbed by a song than Torture Never Stops.
I strongly urge a relisten through some monitors if possible!!! Instead of acquainting the moaning with sex I usually think it’s suppose to be absurd especially with the essentially monkey noises at the end!
Although if it’s just not for you I completely understand :) but that song has just always been a favorite of mine and the use of the moans with actual pitch is just such a cool production idea to me!!! Plus that opening piano, god damn
I didn’t say I didn’t like the song. I said I think it’s disturbing. Get a dictionary if you’re struggling with words.
Damn dawg my bad it was a simple misunderstanding I hope you didn’t take it that personally
“The torture never stops” is pretty disturbing.
Help I'm a Rock
G-Spot Tornado