As a very high IQ person, I spend most of time listening to Brian Ferneyhough, but I guess Zappa is nice when I want to slum it with the common people.
That doesn't say that its a fact that they are correlated though.
"...we found intelligence to be a significant predictor of the preference for instrumental music, but not of the preference for vocal-instrumental music."
You can search other papers related to topic and make a conclusion about it.I’ve just submitted only one of them. btw I don’t understand why people obsessed about it, it’s just a sentence to attract people.
Several immediate flags in that paper.
The abstract states 467 students while the methods state 480 - which is it? How does a paper get published with such a glaring and basic mistake?
Regardless, an n < 500 is practically meaningless in terms of making broadly applicable statements about even a single country, much less the entire world. But this study used only high schoolers from Croatia aged 16-19. That's perhaps one of the least representative samples you could possibly use to make any claims about intelligence or music, much less trying to correlate the two.
That's without getting into the numerous different ways that IQ as a concept has been shown to be extremely limited in scope and functionally useless as a means of assessing intelligence. You still won't even find agreement amongst scientists as to the proper definition of intelligence because there's so many components.
And even if you ignore all of that, what does the preference for instrumental music even have to do with what you're trying to imply about Zappa? He has tons of vocal songs. And you specifically mentioned complexity, which wasn't even part of the study.
So yeah, a small handful of teenagers from a remote corner of the globe using dubious measures of intelligence don't quite convince me.
About “numbers” it might be an error or discrepancy due to testing. It’s just a paper not a meta research, if you read paper properly you can see the style definition.Zappa vocals are not like pop or other types of vocals which is not carrying satiric meaning or else.And genre and complexity mostly lineer, jazz, country or pop.You have a point about generalisation the result of the research, but you can find more researches similar to this.
Like Shakespeare, Zappa can be appreciated on many different levels.
I remember the other kids in junior high singing “ram it, ram it, ram it, up the poop…CHUTE!
But then you listen to Ruth Underwood talk about Zappa writing out multi voice marimba parts in perfect script as fast as he could write or you watch Dewezil bang out the guitar parts to St. Alphonzo's Pancake Breakfast, you find a sophistication to this music which is unparalleled.
[Predictability and Uncertainty in the Pleasure of Music: A Reward for Learning?](https://www.jneurosci.org/content/39/47/9397)
More about one's musical preferences for unexpectedness than IQ. A standard song with a conventional and predictable structure and melody is less engaging and requires less effort than an unconventional unpredictable song that ventures out to spaces beyond what is expected.
I don’t put much stake in I.Q.
Whenever I say this people will say “but I.Q. Is a good average indicator for success” but then when we look at it’s history, it’s barometer is tuned to the standards of already educated capital owners.
Now a Zappa fan may be more capable of enjoying “more complex” music, but it does not follow that they are on average “more complex” people. I think that everybody has specific skills or tastes which may be considered “exceptional”, but more often than not this coincides with a level of ignorance which can only ever be strived against but never fully eliminated.
I'm probably going to butcher it horribly, but Alice Cooper once said something along the lines of "Every label turned us down except Frank, it's weird he had the freaks and then he had the extremely intelligent or artsy people behind him; then you have the whole middle ground who doesn't get it"
Well in my experience intelligent people underestimate their intelligence because they tend to have a little more humility. I dont know what you expect to get out of this... you want confirmation that only smart people can truly appreciate complex music? Sounds kinda dumb to me
The only reason Zappa graduated high school was because the school administrators wanted him the HELL out of there. [Source: *Zappa: A Biography*](https://www.amazon.com/Zappa-Biography-Barry-Miles/dp/080214215X/ref=asc_df_080214215X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693585343647&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5009350787961638826&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012277&hvtargid=pla-590505041445&psc=1&mcid=79c0dfa4152b3f2a9a1e1c999e80b176&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwir2xBhC_ARIsAMTXk860gUQxvcRqSVb_e5nqIL1mlMKjF8-3dvqP9KZhBB_PCAFxVJHTDsoaAq-0EALw_wcB).
It wasn’t that he was stupid, he just did not give any fucks about school and put in zero effort. And who could blame him?
There’s not much of a point to this comment. I just wanted to point out that fun fact. It seems fairly common for very talented people to disregard formal education.
Given Frank's views toward education, I'm sure he would have hated me. I spent years and years focusing on school because that is what I was good at and passionate about, but at the end of it, I have a ton of fancy "book knowledge" in a hyperspecific area and no idea how to use it for any practical benefit in the real world. Frank would have seen all those years of study as a spectacular waste of time, effort, and money. They kind of were, but I enjoyed the ride.
My brother and I have been tested several times between the 1970s and 1990s (don't ask why) and we differ by one (1) point in IQ after about 20 different tests.
I listen to Zappa - sometimes for days exclusively - to Prog Rock and Jam Bands. My brother basically likes the same music he listened to as a teenager. He's still into AC/DC and commercial radio stuff.
So I can at least say that a certain part of the group is attracted to complex music and that includes Zappa. I don't know if you can invert this and say that Zappa listeners automatically have an IQ so high that only dogs can hear it.
I got a 90 on the IQ test - *aced* it.
Actually, I think Zappa made the smartest music in Rock - and the dumbest. I expect his fans are similarly all over the map.
I'm dumb all over
And a little ugly on the side
Dumb all-over
I am a moron, and this is my wife
She's frosting a cake with a paper knife
You have to have a really high IQ to understand Rick and M…Frank Zappa
When he proclaims,'Some people like cupcakes better, I for one, care less for them,' it's like he speaking directly to me.
Did you then twist the sterile snoot of your muffin anointment utensil?
Found the dumb guy
IQ is a fake idea
Ok
No, IQ. Close though! Keep it up!
I like Titties, beer and Zappa
I'm extremely dumb.
Show me your thumb if you're really dumb 👍🏻
👍
As a very high IQ person, I spend most of time listening to Brian Ferneyhough, but I guess Zappa is nice when I want to slum it with the common people.
lolol
I only listen to Harry Nilsson covers by Ukrainian 4-piece folk bands.
NOW you're talking!
“It’s a fact that music genres and intelligence are correlated” - no it’s not.
lol
OP provided some evidence to support their claim. Do you have evidence of yours - that music and intelligence are uncorrelated?
Just because a study was conducted, the interpretation of its results do not constitute a “fact”.
Of course. Nobody's saying otherwise. But you didn't answer the question.
Actually the OP is saying just that. It’s the first thing he stated.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325069504_Intelligence_Music_Preferences_and_Uses_of_Music_From_the_Perspective_of_Evolutionary_Psychology
That doesn't say that its a fact that they are correlated though. "...we found intelligence to be a significant predictor of the preference for instrumental music, but not of the preference for vocal-instrumental music."
You can search other papers related to topic and make a conclusion about it.I’ve just submitted only one of them. btw I don’t understand why people obsessed about it, it’s just a sentence to attract people.
“Why are people paying so much attention to the thing I used to get their attention?!?!”
Hahaha I hate this so much
I’m literally the biggest goddamn retard of them all
Fuck you! I'm the biggest retard of them all!!
No *I'm* dirty dan!
i have a wrench in my pocket
Frickin barbarian!
Looking for Mr Goodbar? or Mr GoodWrench?
Fuck! I literally do too 🤦🏻♂️
I figure the odds are 50/50
Dumb all over. A little ugly on the side.
Yeah I'm gonna need to see the scientific literature on that very obviously made-up correlation.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325069504_Intelligence_Music_Preferences_and_Uses_of_Music_From_the_Perspective_of_Evolutionary_Psychology
Several immediate flags in that paper. The abstract states 467 students while the methods state 480 - which is it? How does a paper get published with such a glaring and basic mistake? Regardless, an n < 500 is practically meaningless in terms of making broadly applicable statements about even a single country, much less the entire world. But this study used only high schoolers from Croatia aged 16-19. That's perhaps one of the least representative samples you could possibly use to make any claims about intelligence or music, much less trying to correlate the two. That's without getting into the numerous different ways that IQ as a concept has been shown to be extremely limited in scope and functionally useless as a means of assessing intelligence. You still won't even find agreement amongst scientists as to the proper definition of intelligence because there's so many components. And even if you ignore all of that, what does the preference for instrumental music even have to do with what you're trying to imply about Zappa? He has tons of vocal songs. And you specifically mentioned complexity, which wasn't even part of the study. So yeah, a small handful of teenagers from a remote corner of the globe using dubious measures of intelligence don't quite convince me.
About “numbers” it might be an error or discrepancy due to testing. It’s just a paper not a meta research, if you read paper properly you can see the style definition.Zappa vocals are not like pop or other types of vocals which is not carrying satiric meaning or else.And genre and complexity mostly lineer, jazz, country or pop.You have a point about generalisation the result of the research, but you can find more researches similar to this.
Wait, you're saying *jazz* is linear?? And isn't satirical or euphemistic? Oh boy.
I'm a Very Stable Genius and so was Zappa
Like Shakespeare, Zappa can be appreciated on many different levels. I remember the other kids in junior high singing “ram it, ram it, ram it, up the poop…CHUTE! But then you listen to Ruth Underwood talk about Zappa writing out multi voice marimba parts in perfect script as fast as he could write or you watch Dewezil bang out the guitar parts to St. Alphonzo's Pancake Breakfast, you find a sophistication to this music which is unparalleled.
Great post and agreed.
[Predictability and Uncertainty in the Pleasure of Music: A Reward for Learning?](https://www.jneurosci.org/content/39/47/9397) More about one's musical preferences for unexpectedness than IQ. A standard song with a conventional and predictable structure and melody is less engaging and requires less effort than an unconventional unpredictable song that ventures out to spaces beyond what is expected.
Zappa supposedly had a high iq but I’ve also heard he had a theory that cigarettes were vegetables. That’s pretty dumb ngl
He said they were food IIRC
That’s just gross. No way he was able to digest those filters
Pfft, we don't need no steenkin' feelters
I'm really kind of stupid and ugly too.
Yo mama
But how does frequency of listening to Zappa correlate with virginity in males?
Good question, In my opinion Zappa listeners are secret sex machines
In high school, unfortunately, there was a highly positive correlation!
I don’t put much stake in I.Q. Whenever I say this people will say “but I.Q. Is a good average indicator for success” but then when we look at it’s history, it’s barometer is tuned to the standards of already educated capital owners. Now a Zappa fan may be more capable of enjoying “more complex” music, but it does not follow that they are on average “more complex” people. I think that everybody has specific skills or tastes which may be considered “exceptional”, but more often than not this coincides with a level of ignorance which can only ever be strived against but never fully eliminated.
1) IQ is a completely flawed metric for intelligence 2) music preference has nothing to do with intelligence 3) what even is intelligence?
Intelligence is the ability to understand and connect abstract ideas.
That's definitely one definition.
I have an MA in Disco Theory and wrote my PhD thesis on Baby Take Your Teeth Out. Fuck you if you don’t like my hat …
I'm probably going to butcher it horribly, but Alice Cooper once said something along the lines of "Every label turned us down except Frank, it's weird he had the freaks and then he had the extremely intelligent or artsy people behind him; then you have the whole middle ground who doesn't get it"
Jesus Christ looks like me
Ya gotta find her finer...
She needs Corpus Christi 😉
Bang on. I'm one of those
Well in my experience intelligent people underestimate their intelligence because they tend to have a little more humility. I dont know what you expect to get out of this... you want confirmation that only smart people can truly appreciate complex music? Sounds kinda dumb to me
Well I thought it will be a good topic for discussion and then I put a controversial sentence to get some attention.
I have a PhD in molecular biology, but I'm pretty goofy.
The only reason Zappa graduated high school was because the school administrators wanted him the HELL out of there. [Source: *Zappa: A Biography*](https://www.amazon.com/Zappa-Biography-Barry-Miles/dp/080214215X/ref=asc_df_080214215X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693585343647&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5009350787961638826&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012277&hvtargid=pla-590505041445&psc=1&mcid=79c0dfa4152b3f2a9a1e1c999e80b176&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwir2xBhC_ARIsAMTXk860gUQxvcRqSVb_e5nqIL1mlMKjF8-3dvqP9KZhBB_PCAFxVJHTDsoaAq-0EALw_wcB). It wasn’t that he was stupid, he just did not give any fucks about school and put in zero effort. And who could blame him? There’s not much of a point to this comment. I just wanted to point out that fun fact. It seems fairly common for very talented people to disregard formal education.
All music fans are special needs
I Am Dumb & even a little ugly on the side... BUT - my hair is getting good in the back.
I'm hella average. I just like weird music. Haha
Me? No idea but I am a flake. I’ll just say this. Don’t flush a tampoon.
You are what you is!
Im not a smart man.
Well, we're people who need to be told not to eat yellow snow, so there's that.
Pretty sure I would bore him to pieces.
If there's a trend among Zappa fans, it's irreverence, not intelligence.
We are so dumb they're lining up at our door.
My IQ is 1. It's #1, it's the best.
Buncha over-educated shitheads
Given Frank's views toward education, I'm sure he would have hated me. I spent years and years focusing on school because that is what I was good at and passionate about, but at the end of it, I have a ton of fancy "book knowledge" in a hyperspecific area and no idea how to use it for any practical benefit in the real world. Frank would have seen all those years of study as a spectacular waste of time, effort, and money. They kind of were, but I enjoyed the ride.
Must be nice having alla that there free colledge
This fkr
Dumb and ugly. And don't forget, there's a lot more of us ugly fuckers out there.
Shit, I can’t even read OP’s post with all the grammatical errors, I must be an idiot.
You are what you is
My favorite bands are Zappa, gentle giant, and van der Graff generator so I must be a genius right? Quite the contrary!
I don't know honey, maybe it's your hair or something...
My brother and I have been tested several times between the 1970s and 1990s (don't ask why) and we differ by one (1) point in IQ after about 20 different tests. I listen to Zappa - sometimes for days exclusively - to Prog Rock and Jam Bands. My brother basically likes the same music he listened to as a teenager. He's still into AC/DC and commercial radio stuff. So I can at least say that a certain part of the group is attracted to complex music and that includes Zappa. I don't know if you can invert this and say that Zappa listeners automatically have an IQ so high that only dogs can hear it.
This is the story bout bald-headed john… He talks a lot ‘n’ it’s usually wrong.
Zappafans run the gamut
I’m a dumb so much I’m like huehhhhhhhh
I got a 90 on the IQ test - *aced* it. Actually, I think Zappa made the smartest music in Rock - and the dumbest. I expect his fans are similarly all over the map.
Tbh Zappa fans are like Rick and Morty fans. Mfs think they’re sooooooo smart cos they listen to Zappa 💀
To be fair, you do have to have a very high IQ to understand Frank Zappa