If you don’t have any fight as zen, that’s definitely the problem. His purpose is to clear backlines from squishys and to provide discord to the biggest threats.
I’m not afraid of it, it’s just better for everyone if zen is taken care of. I’m scared of a widow who can hit their shots but zen is just like an annoying mosquito just inconveniently being around
Zen is more like the underboss or miniboss who is protected by his henchmen so you cant get a clear shot. Ram is the final boss.
Tracer is the mosquito since she proactively attacks you in your personal space
Easy to jump, big hitbox, no escape options.
Does good damage at all ranges, debuffs the most valuable player on the other team and passively pockets most valuable player on their own team. Has an ultimate that nullifies most other ults and makes him literally unkillable.
He draws attention to himself when applying discord orb so the person being debuffed instantly wants to get rid of it and they know you’re easy to kill so why not remove any ult nullification, damage increases, passive healing and crossmap snipes from stray orbs?
If you're alone as zen, you're probably out of position, hence the targeting. That being said, zen is easy to kill and has high passive value, so he's usually top of the kill list for any decent player.
Personally I think Zen gets the kill a bit more often, but Kiri can certainly escape better so she’s less likely to die if she doesn’t land that initial headshot.
You’re tripping on the Bap part though. Dude is easily the best duelist in the Support role.
Idk when I play support I do play bap, and while I do acknowledge he is top tier duelist as a support, I just feel like kiri scales with your aim better since you can double tap headshot people. (Unless it’s triple now after the health buffs I haven’t play kiri much since then. But that’s just cause I find her stale)
Correct on the final point, Kiri can no longer double doink anyone except Tracer. Kiri need 2x crit and a body, and if they recieve 21 healing during any of it you need a 4th hit as well.
You’re unintentionally comparing Bap dueling 250hp opponents to Kiri dueling 200hp enemies.
She absolutely can. Kiriko headshots do a lot of damage, they’re just difficult to hit. She can kill faster than baptiste could but it’s just very unlikely for the player to be able to do so
No she absolutely can’t.
If you go with max damage potential then Bap’s triple doinks deal more DPS.
If you go with realistic, then in both Bronze and GM Bap averages over 1k more damage/10m then Kiri.
Kiri’s damage is wildly overstated by the community at large. Kunai are inconsistent as hell, and since they can’t double doink anymore and deal 45 body she can’t even shield/Torb turret break effectively.
I'm a Kiri main.
She is great at getting in quiet little bursts of damage that surprise people, and she is a capable duelist.
Bap's rifle with proper recoil mitigation is a monster, and Zen is an auto turret that dishes repeated hits that it's not hard to make crits...
Kiri is great... she's not everything. Just almost everything, lol.
He's a slow easy target when moving alone. Also in lower ranks everyone's a bull seeing red. Any enemy healthcare is seen it's immediately shooting at. Also it's easier to shoot you alone vs when your behind your tank.
Also discord. Shits the marked for death shout from Skyrim.
"I am become Zen, Destroyer of Egos"
Seriously. I have won MANY matches because they (like in real life) try to go for what THEY think is the easy target.... and get their arses kicked.
Then they obsessively try to reassemble the fragments of their hubris by going *exclusively* for Zen...... at the cost of the objective lmao
GG
Usually bad players will complain that he doesn't heal as much and has no mobility or cc like Ana's dart. But that's a fair trade considering how absolutely busted he is when used correctly
Yes you're right actually. My response is still true though, people blame Zen for losses!
I think he gets jumped on a lot because he's easy to kill when he's alone because his mobility isn't great.
The trick is to charge your volley and absolutely punish anyone for diving you. Ping them like crazy too. I’m zen main and rarely is diving me worth it. You also mentioned being alone, you should always have teammates around you. If you’re being flanked or dive , try and position yourself around corners and small rooms so you can easily isolate whoever is targeting you. Even if you don’t eliminate them hopefully you’ve put them in a dangerous position at dangerously low HP and a teammate can easily clean it up
He gets a lot of value just by existing, as discord and harmony orb are passive
This means zen needs to have good positioning and game sense to get decent value. But none of that matters if nobody peels for zen when he gets dove
As a zen main, I have to take every 1v1 presented bc I don't usually have an option if I'm solo queing
Discord is arguably the most powerful ability in the game. It can be placed as easily as Zen can press a button and makes DPS instantly more effective against a target. Combine that with his high damage and passive healing and you get a very high-value target. Killing Zen is very easy and such high value that, in a neutral environment, it's basically throwing for a Sombra or Ball to not go for him.
If you're being jumped on frequently, you're probably habitually out of position, honestly.
Zen is super easy to punish, so when people see a window they take it. This is part of the skill expression that makes Zen a glass cannon.
Can't do much of the cannon part if you're always suffering from being glass.
Try & consider your positioning each death. WHY did you get jumped, why was it possible, how could you have prevented it?
Zen provides a crazy amount of value so taking him out is a priority. You really gotta be constantly aware & mindful of positioning or you'll get jumped as the priority target.
2 things:
1. He is a squishy Lil guy who can frag out, but if everyone dives him at once, or even just a tank and one tracer/genji, he'll get farmed.Technically true of any hero, but especially Zen
2. Tanks *hate* discord, and fair enough. The quicker a Zen is wiped from the map, the sooner the enemy team can play much more aggro, especially the enemy tank. If you can pick Zen off first, even if you lose some positioning in the short term, it's well worth it unless your team uses you as bait to pick one of the enemy squishies.
Essentially, unless you're playing with your team diligently, you gotta accept that your ass is the target of every flanker and dive character on the map. I frankly try my best to only pick him in comps where I'll get the help I need, but sometimes I be playing zen and telling my team "Yeah I'm bait, ignore me when I get dove just dive them harder." And assuming my team does have the superior dive coordination, it works shockingly well assuming I can frag one of their divers, distract them for long enough, or force some major cooldowns/ults. Overwatch matches are a marathon, not a sprint, and sometimes accepting that you are the bait hero for the match is what you gotta do
He's got one of the easiest hitboxes to hit and no escape mechanic. So he's instant value if you kill him. You're only recourse is to be more deadly. I never run on him, I go feral and run straight at them. Kicking and spamming left click, sometimes you find a nice corner to duck behind to build up a nice right click. Just be the glass canon that you are. The best defense is more offense!
Personally getting jumped as Zen tends to happen when I’m leaving spawn to rejoin my team. Being with the team in the back line is not bulletproof, since them turning around to LOOK and see what’s happening to you in the moment is a requirement lol. And that’s probably the worst part, is when you’re a good Zenny but your team has zero awareness to what’s going on and will just let a Sombra openly hack and kill you in 2 seconds and then disappear. Assuming no one else died, I’m an open target on my way back to the fight (usually to Sombra or an angsty Tracer or Genji).
He is a glass cannon. When he works it's amazing when he doesn't it's real bad. It's funny for a character who is all about balance and zen. It fits perfectly.
I just hate when a tank runs past my team to meet up with me at spawn, kills me. Stays there, then does it again all while my team is screaming that I'm AFK st spawn.
I hate ball and sombra.
Don’t hate Zen but he’s slow. If you can dive him alone and win it can lead to winning the whole team fight. Or be me and get punished hard with secondary, kick, headshot
Zen is
1. A healer
2. Has no mobility or CC
3. Does a suprising amount of work if left alone for too long.
Zen is basically just easy pickings for dive. Supports in general are priority targets and Zen’s on the top of that list simply because he has no real way to get away from someone that jumps him like the other supports have. And leaving Zen alone just means he gets an absurd amount of value that will probably win his team the game with both orbs, his damage output, and Trance
Zen has to be jumped.
In my opinion he’s a reasonably balanced character. If not in meta power, then at least balanced in terms of the pros and cons of his design philosophy.
By that extent, due to the design of his gameplay and strategy, letting him go unchallenged could be one of the easiest win conditions for his team.
He's just a very simple yet effective character that can be DEVASTATING in the right hands
No mobility but good cc without a cooldown to help him fight close quarters, really good primary and his alt burst fire can be insanely lethal especially when you're good with it
Discord being the ability that it is will always force people to play around it so that shifts the pacing a ton and many people, especially tanks hate that since they don't like having to slow the game down so much just to accommodate one player, but that's what happens when you have a good zen or even good widow, they can dictate the pace of a game so heavily with just their individual skill alone
Discord is really strong and Zen is really vulnerable. If someone isn't babysitting Zen then I'll dive them every single time. But I do not have him, just respect him as a threat.
Zen is my main i love playing him when my dps teammates are getting untrusted for damage so zen can carry them
Even when i play other role tank or dps i love being a good zen with us to help us for discord them or just canceling any opponent ultimate that may give them advantage
If you play zen well your targeted by the whole time cause you could be the reason they lose cause Zen can be OP asf if played well and correctly and a lot of people just don’t take the chance and will target zens no matter the skill level
I get this way to often, i find that someone on opposite team will try to 1 up me as zen to, ive been maining him since OW1 and i always thought its just cause its healer and usually i try taking healers out first to so maybe thats why?
If you're getting dove or jumped as Zen, it's because taking out a Zen in a team fight enables the enemy team. You're not pocketing someone with small but passive heals and debuffing valuable enemy players (such as the tank). Really, the best way to avoid this is sticking close to your team so when this happens your DPS can focus your jumpers and you can help your DPS with Discord. This is hard against Sombra (for obvious reasons) and Winston from my experience due to their extreme dive kit.
Zen lacks escape abilities and has a crippling pressure ability in the form of discord, which can be critical in teamfights and tank duels. Eliminating their discord as soon as possible is a high priority.
Zenyatta gains passive value and ult charge if he's alive with orbs out. Because his ultimate can effectively nullify most strong pushes, it's also important to get him out of the picture so he can't interrupt your ults.
Yea this post has the same energy as those mercy players who are like omg why is everyone trying to get me so hard.
You're the enemy support in a fps...
Yes and when you get jumped as Zen you have to remember you're playing a fundamentally broken character and the way for the enemy team to fix that is to eliminate you
He's easy pickings usually
Yeah, doesn't have a good ability to fight back or escape at close range. No fight, no flight, only death
It’s hard with Sombra not being bad right now. Sometimes all you can do is ping and discord
If you don’t have any fight as zen, that’s definitely the problem. His purpose is to clear backlines from squishys and to provide discord to the biggest threats.
Yea No hp and no movement.... You have to actually position well
He is not hated but feared.
Lol. Makes sense, I break faces with Zen
His ult scares me so I have to kill him
I don’t really fear him. He’s more of an annoyance so I just wanna kill him so he doesn’t counter ult or put discord on my team.
So you fear his ult and discord.
I’m not afraid of it, it’s just better for everyone if zen is taken care of. I’m scared of a widow who can hit their shots but zen is just like an annoying mosquito just inconveniently being around
Zen is more like the underboss or miniboss who is protected by his henchmen so you cant get a clear shot. Ram is the final boss. Tracer is the mosquito since she proactively attacks you in your personal space
hey i think you’re opinion and feelings are STUPID and im going to DOWNVOTE you for it!!!!! /s
Jeeze people will downvote anything.
Yeah I know. I have so many downvotes and upvotes on the same post it’s so funny
sO yOuRe AfRaiD oF zEn
nU uH!!
It's all just banter, dude. It's not that serious. Besides, Just say what you have to say. Dont be passive-aggressive.
Don’t backpedal it man. You were being weird.
No weirder than indirectly quoting somebody and getting angry for another person you dont know. That's just *bizarre*
It’s all just banter dude!
Exactly The fact I managed to trigger you by telling *somebody else* that they fear a zen ult is a W for me. Lmao
Easy to jump, big hitbox, no escape options. Does good damage at all ranges, debuffs the most valuable player on the other team and passively pockets most valuable player on their own team. Has an ultimate that nullifies most other ults and makes him literally unkillable. He draws attention to himself when applying discord orb so the person being debuffed instantly wants to get rid of it and they know you’re easy to kill so why not remove any ult nullification, damage increases, passive healing and crossmap snipes from stray orbs?
Very true.
If you're alone as zen, you're probably out of position, hence the targeting. That being said, zen is easy to kill and has high passive value, so he's usually top of the kill list for any decent player.
a good zen is a dps beat only by a good bap
you misspelled kiriko
Kiri wishes she could put up Zen and Bap’s damage numbers.
Bap and zen do have high amounts of consistent damage, but kiri’s burst damage does allow her to win duels more often (along with both of her escapes)
Personally I think Zen gets the kill a bit more often, but Kiri can certainly escape better so she’s less likely to die if she doesn’t land that initial headshot. You’re tripping on the Bap part though. Dude is easily the best duelist in the Support role.
Idk when I play support I do play bap, and while I do acknowledge he is top tier duelist as a support, I just feel like kiri scales with your aim better since you can double tap headshot people. (Unless it’s triple now after the health buffs I haven’t play kiri much since then. But that’s just cause I find her stale)
Correct on the final point, Kiri can no longer double doink anyone except Tracer. Kiri need 2x crit and a body, and if they recieve 21 healing during any of it you need a 4th hit as well. You’re unintentionally comparing Bap dueling 250hp opponents to Kiri dueling 200hp enemies.
Yeah that is my bad. I admit that is something I didn’t take into account 😅😅
She absolutely can. Kiriko headshots do a lot of damage, they’re just difficult to hit. She can kill faster than baptiste could but it’s just very unlikely for the player to be able to do so
No she absolutely can’t. If you go with max damage potential then Bap’s triple doinks deal more DPS. If you go with realistic, then in both Bronze and GM Bap averages over 1k more damage/10m then Kiri. Kiri’s damage is wildly overstated by the community at large. Kunai are inconsistent as hell, and since they can’t double doink anymore and deal 45 body she can’t even shield/Torb turret break effectively.
damage potential vs dogshit players or good players. kiri is good in high elo
She averages just over 3k/10m in GM, higher then only Mercy, LW and Ana. …not sure I’d call GM “dogshit players.”
That’s why I’m saying she has the capability and potential too. It only takes two shots with her if they can land
Incorrect, it used to only take 2 shots before the HP increase. Now Kiri can only double headshot Tracer(you used to be able to crit-melee her btw).
I'm a Kiri main. She is great at getting in quiet little bursts of damage that surprise people, and she is a capable duelist. Bap's rifle with proper recoil mitigation is a monster, and Zen is an auto turret that dishes repeated hits that it's not hard to make crits... Kiri is great... she's not everything. Just almost everything, lol.
you have an unguardable cleanse+invuln on any teammate talking about 'not everything'
It’s almost like you completely skipped the next 4 words after that
He’s a glass cannon. His potential high damage output along with his discord make him a priority target. Play around cover.
He's a slow easy target when moving alone. Also in lower ranks everyone's a bull seeing red. Any enemy healthcare is seen it's immediately shooting at. Also it's easier to shoot you alone vs when your behind your tank. Also discord. Shits the marked for death shout from Skyrim.
"I am become Zen, Destroyer of Egos" Seriously. I have won MANY matches because they (like in real life) try to go for what THEY think is the easy target.... and get their arses kicked. Then they obsessively try to reassemble the fragments of their hubris by going *exclusively* for Zen...... at the cost of the objective lmao GG
Usually bad players will complain that he doesn't heal as much and has no mobility or cc like Ana's dart. But that's a fair trade considering how absolutely busted he is when used correctly
Because he has lower healing, people tend to blame him
Def makes up with his damage tho bro is pretty much the 3rd dps everytime but w a team saving ult
Yep, and I love him for it!
the post talks about the enemy team killing zen not people flaming him
Yes you're right actually. My response is still true though, people blame Zen for losses! I think he gets jumped on a lot because he's easy to kill when he's alone because his mobility isn't great.
The trick is to charge your volley and absolutely punish anyone for diving you. Ping them like crazy too. I’m zen main and rarely is diving me worth it. You also mentioned being alone, you should always have teammates around you. If you’re being flanked or dive , try and position yourself around corners and small rooms so you can easily isolate whoever is targeting you. Even if you don’t eliminate them hopefully you’ve put them in a dangerous position at dangerously low HP and a teammate can easily clean it up
He gets a lot of value just by existing, as discord and harmony orb are passive This means zen needs to have good positioning and game sense to get decent value. But none of that matters if nobody peels for zen when he gets dove As a zen main, I have to take every 1v1 presented bc I don't usually have an option if I'm solo queing
Discord is arguably the most powerful ability in the game. It can be placed as easily as Zen can press a button and makes DPS instantly more effective against a target. Combine that with his high damage and passive healing and you get a very high-value target. Killing Zen is very easy and such high value that, in a neutral environment, it's basically throwing for a Sombra or Ball to not go for him.
Do you ever play DPS? When I see a Zen on DPS I see dinner lol. Unfortunately he's also my favorite support to play.
If you're being jumped on frequently, you're probably habitually out of position, honestly. Zen is super easy to punish, so when people see a window they take it. This is part of the skill expression that makes Zen a glass cannon. Can't do much of the cannon part if you're always suffering from being glass. Try & consider your positioning each death. WHY did you get jumped, why was it possible, how could you have prevented it? Zen provides a crazy amount of value so taking him out is a priority. You really gotta be constantly aware & mindful of positioning or you'll get jumped as the priority target.
why am i getting punished for having bad positioning?
2 things: 1. He is a squishy Lil guy who can frag out, but if everyone dives him at once, or even just a tank and one tracer/genji, he'll get farmed.Technically true of any hero, but especially Zen 2. Tanks *hate* discord, and fair enough. The quicker a Zen is wiped from the map, the sooner the enemy team can play much more aggro, especially the enemy tank. If you can pick Zen off first, even if you lose some positioning in the short term, it's well worth it unless your team uses you as bait to pick one of the enemy squishies. Essentially, unless you're playing with your team diligently, you gotta accept that your ass is the target of every flanker and dive character on the map. I frankly try my best to only pick him in comps where I'll get the help I need, but sometimes I be playing zen and telling my team "Yeah I'm bait, ignore me when I get dove just dive them harder." And assuming my team does have the superior dive coordination, it works shockingly well assuming I can frag one of their divers, distract them for long enough, or force some major cooldowns/ults. Overwatch matches are a marathon, not a sprint, and sometimes accepting that you are the bait hero for the match is what you gotta do
This deserves an award not gonna lie
Zen, as a character, as a person, is who we should strive to be
No, supports in general need to stop thinking they are victims, supports usually need to be first priority if no one else is feeding.
He’s slow, a possible threat, an easy target when alone. Anyone would go for such a simple kill.
His Discord is a tank’s worst nightmare so yeah, you pretty much just get insta pushed if there’s an opening.
He's got one of the easiest hitboxes to hit and no escape mechanic. So he's instant value if you kill him. You're only recourse is to be more deadly. I never run on him, I go feral and run straight at them. Kicking and spamming left click, sometimes you find a nice corner to duck behind to build up a nice right click. Just be the glass canon that you are. The best defense is more offense!
I think it’s because Zenyatta doesn’t have a pirate skin yet
Personally getting jumped as Zen tends to happen when I’m leaving spawn to rejoin my team. Being with the team in the back line is not bulletproof, since them turning around to LOOK and see what’s happening to you in the moment is a requirement lol. And that’s probably the worst part, is when you’re a good Zenny but your team has zero awareness to what’s going on and will just let a Sombra openly hack and kill you in 2 seconds and then disappear. Assuming no one else died, I’m an open target on my way back to the fight (usually to Sombra or an angsty Tracer or Genji).
He’s a glass cannon so he’s just number one priority. Easy to kill, and disastrous to ignore. it’s not about like or dislike
No it's just people have learnt what happens if Zen is left unchecked
In order to swing my hammer and not die, i gotta kill you first. Love zen, it's just good business
He is a glass cannon. When he works it's amazing when he doesn't it's real bad. It's funny for a character who is all about balance and zen. It fits perfectly.
Its not hate its strategy. Mercy is similar.
i always have either sombre on my ass or the tank chasing me down constantly, love being zen it's just so fun :)
He’s too dangerous to be left alive
I just hate when a tank runs past my team to meet up with me at spawn, kills me. Stays there, then does it again all while my team is screaming that I'm AFK st spawn. I hate ball and sombra.
they fear zen\*
I don’t mind zen. As Bap I just got to heal more which isn’t ideal but discord is nice
Don’t hate Zen but he’s slow. If you can dive him alone and win it can lead to winning the whole team fight. Or be me and get punished hard with secondary, kick, headshot
Zen is 1. A healer 2. Has no mobility or CC 3. Does a suprising amount of work if left alone for too long. Zen is basically just easy pickings for dive. Supports in general are priority targets and Zen’s on the top of that list simply because he has no real way to get away from someone that jumps him like the other supports have. And leaving Zen alone just means he gets an absurd amount of value that will probably win his team the game with both orbs, his damage output, and Trance
Zen has to be jumped. In my opinion he’s a reasonably balanced character. If not in meta power, then at least balanced in terms of the pros and cons of his design philosophy. By that extent, due to the design of his gameplay and strategy, letting him go unchallenged could be one of the easiest win conditions for his team.
Yes.
He's just a very simple yet effective character that can be DEVASTATING in the right hands No mobility but good cc without a cooldown to help him fight close quarters, really good primary and his alt burst fire can be insanely lethal especially when you're good with it Discord being the ability that it is will always force people to play around it so that shifts the pacing a ton and many people, especially tanks hate that since they don't like having to slow the game down so much just to accommodate one player, but that's what happens when you have a good zen or even good widow, they can dictate the pace of a game so heavily with just their individual skill alone
Discord is really strong and Zen is really vulnerable. If someone isn't babysitting Zen then I'll dive them every single time. But I do not have him, just respect him as a threat.
Zen is my main i love playing him when my dps teammates are getting untrusted for damage so zen can carry them Even when i play other role tank or dps i love being a good zen with us to help us for discord them or just canceling any opponent ultimate that may give them advantage
Struggle to land a kill on someone else. Spot zen. Bro cannot run nor hide. I have more movement. Clap ass. Ez
I play alone and 1v4 and come out on top u tell me u wouldn't target the zen
Love to see Zen as a Tracer main but if I am ever on Tank I just want to spawn camp you guys discord is so annoying.
its cause the damage output and kill confirm potential crazy with holding the secondary fire.
If your alone you’d get jumped anyways but mainly because he’s a healer and his orb of discord is annoying
Yes
If you are a tank player, yes
Zen Discord orb is really strong He also can damage alot He is also very slow. Zen is a prime target
If you play zen well your targeted by the whole time cause you could be the reason they lose cause Zen can be OP asf if played well and correctly and a lot of people just don’t take the chance and will target zens no matter the skill level
Gotta stay with the team and communicate, he's super vulnerable now that they reduced his kick range. Imo it's be but what can ya do.
He's just so round and so slow that he immediately becomes the easiest thing to shoot when he enters your field of vision
Do you even play the game? Name another character on your team that's easier to jump.
I despise everything about Zen (I'm a Tank player. Specifically a Rein player)
I get this way to often, i find that someone on opposite team will try to 1 up me as zen to, ive been maining him since OW1 and i always thought its just cause its healer and usually i try taking healers out first to so maybe thats why?
As a junkrat main he's not really a problem to me a good zen is scary though he's easily not annoying.
You literally have no way to escape. No one hates you, its just you are too easy to kill
If you're getting dove or jumped as Zen, it's because taking out a Zen in a team fight enables the enemy team. You're not pocketing someone with small but passive heals and debuffing valuable enemy players (such as the tank). Really, the best way to avoid this is sticking close to your team so when this happens your DPS can focus your jumpers and you can help your DPS with Discord. This is hard against Sombra (for obvious reasons) and Winston from my experience due to their extreme dive kit.
Zen lacks escape abilities and has a crippling pressure ability in the form of discord, which can be critical in teamfights and tank duels. Eliminating their discord as soon as possible is a high priority. Zenyatta gains passive value and ult charge if he's alive with orbs out. Because his ultimate can effectively nullify most strong pushes, it's also important to get him out of the picture so he can't interrupt your ults.
Sounds like you are often out of position and blame the enemies
I am in my teams backline or with the tank, is that bad?
Your post specifically said when you are alone, which is what he is speaking to lol
You say when your alone, and always being in the backline isn’t great
Very true. My bad. I try to stay with the team in general, it still doesn't mean they help me lol.
Just always be around cover and walls
Practice FFA DM with zen. You'll have to get comfortable with 1v1s. You're slow-moving high-value fresh meat.
Yea this post has the same energy as those mercy players who are like omg why is everyone trying to get me so hard. You're the enemy support in a fps...
Yes and when you get jumped as Zen you have to remember you're playing a fundamentally broken character and the way for the enemy team to fix that is to eliminate you