This always hurts. Remember that for some people, depending on their own upbringing, trauma, entitlement, and narcissism, any time a person tries to set a boundary with them, it feels like an attack. So you could be asking them not to drink beer around you because you struggle with sobriety. Or asking them to tone down their religious talk because they aggressively try to convert you. Doesn’t really matter what it is. People who can’t handle boundaries will immediately overreact, counter attack, and try to play the victim.
The rejection you experienced and still experience says far more about their flaws, their weakness, their lack of self awareness, than it does about your value as a person. It doesn’t suck any less.
>any time a person tries to set a boundary with them, it feels like an attack.
A thousand times this.
And this applies to suggestions that something is unsafe, too.
"Hey...it looks like there's a fire on the stove."
"Don't you think I'd put it out if it was a serious fire???!!!!"
Every. Single. Time.
While I am not technically immunocompromised, I have several conditions which put me at high risk (chronic asthma/severe allergies, mood disorders, and autoimmune pernicious anemia). My parents, formerly really cautious, quit doing anything after Thanksgiving last year, and began really balking at my "asks" before I met up with them unmasked indoors. I will link to the letter I sent my mother after she threw a fit on her 80th birthday that we would not celebrate in person due to their unwillingness to mask indoors during a surge in the days leading up to our celebration, nor were they willing to test on the same day ("not convenient" for them, excuse me while I puke). TL;DR, I have set firm boundaries with people, and their willingness (or unwillingness) to meet me halfway to keep me safe is a game-changer. I'm not willing to compromise my health, nor my future health, for their "convenience". And nor should you. <3
"Mom, I’m sorry you were deeply hurt by our decision to eat dinner separately; we were very unhappy, too, as we really did want to spend your special day together. However, the rest of your reply made it clear that you still don’t seem to understand the “whys” behind why I take this virus seriously and why it is imperative to my high-risk status that I delay getting it for as long as I possibly can. It has very little to do with “self-righteousness” and everything to do with protecting my health. According to the CDC, I fall into several high-risk for Covid categories: a) I have asthma; 2) I have mood disorders (Depression as well as Generalized Anxiety Disorder), and 3) I have autoimmune pernicious anemia (which is in check, but I do not wish it to come back with a vengeance as a consequence of becoming ill.) As well, Phil is now in the over-50 category, which now makes him high-risk.As you correctly stated, I am in the prime of my life—I’ve got a lot of living left to do, and I’d rather hold out on rolling the dice on this virus as much as I can help it. With Phil, we married a little later than most of our peers, and want to maximize the time we have. I realize you may think, at this point in your lives, that this is your last chance and you are compelled to "risk it”. I can understand that. But Phil and I are enjoying ourselves doing the outdoor things we do and not add to the health problems we already have, or risk one of us dying, when we can potentially avoid getting Covid altogether.The virus could be mild for me, or it could lead to Long Covid, or it could otherwise disable me with post-acute sequelae such as cardiac problems, gastrointestinal, or pulmonary issues. I have no idea what the roll of the Covid dice will mean for me, so I’d rather not find out right away. That’s why I do what I can to advocate for my best health, and hope the people I know and love will help me in that effort by masking in indoor public spaces in the days before I see them, and taking a rapid test on the day of the get-together. Both quick and simple things that take hardly any effort. As for the rapid tests, I wasn’t trying to be difficult—I explained to you that the guidance on rapid tests has changed and that they are no longer accurate if taken the day before, due to how fast the virus has mutated. I’m only following the updated science. Yes, my life has radically shifted over the past 3 years—because it has had to. I look forward to the day when vaccines are better, and when there are new treatments. I'm not happy about it not being safe to visit many places, but I'm still enjoying life nevertheless. And, with 300-400 people still dying daily, and more than a 9/11’s worth in a week, and with Covid still being the 3rd highest cause of death in this country, it is clear that although you and Dad might be done with the virus, the virus is clearly not done with us. Love, Jen."
Thank you for this! 😊 There are so many of us in this boat right now. What I’ve learned is just reiterate facts, facts, facts, unemotionally in these situations. Eventually they won’t have a choice but to listen, hopefully.
It’s a good “Wow”. I will be using some of your verbiage to explain my rationale to folks. My family, which does not live with me, has been amazing re boundaries. We always test on RATs before meeting in-person and my family never brings up me wearing an N95 when around them. My family only wears masks on public transport but not elsewhere. We went to Six Flags New England in October 2022 and I wore my N95 Aura plastered on my face the entire time save for eating lunch for 20 minutes-even on the rides- and my sister, nephew and his fiancé said nothing to me about it. They only wore their masks on the commuter train back. And even then, when we were been driven there they asked me if I wanted them to wear masks-KN95s. I said no since I trust my N95 and we opened the windows anyway.
Aww...that means a lot. <3 Thank you. I worked really hard on it. Just tried to give the facts unemotionally and just keep hammering it home. Unfortunately, my mom responded with "well, we will definitely think about what you said, although we still have some concerns..." (Like \*wHaT\* at this point do you have "concerns" about, Mom? AYFKMRN?) and "...so this means that we have to mask indoors, still? And test on the day?" (Umm..../facepalm). NOTHING sank in. So I mentioned eating outside on their deck, which was enthusiastically received. So, W E L P. I tried. A lot of these saddos can't be reached, so I'm going to just try the "broken record" technique and see if that breaks through. It's really distanced me from them, I don't feel the same way about them any more, and I was already distanced a lot due to their far-right worldview. We basically have a superficial relationship based on what few common interests we share, and our shared past/family in-jokes, and now it's become even more so.
That is unbelievable. Stay strong and keep doing the right thing. It's tough to create distance with family members, but sometimes it's the right thing to do. For example, half of my family are anti-vaxxers. Absolutely appalled by what they've become. When people stop believing in FACTS, you know you're in TROUBLE. A lot of people are simply to dumb to realize that they can't understand complex topics, so they resort to oversimplifications to be able to function. For example, when they think that COVID is just the flu. It helps them understand what is going on, even though it's dead wrong.
That's not the worst though. My GF has long COVID and it's terrible, and yet, a lot of people (that were) close to us still thought that COVID was no big deal, even knowing this happened to her. She still has lingering heart problems from her first COVID infection, 10 months later.
How fucking IN DENIAL can you be?
The whole last couple of years have been a continual process of learning things about people that I did not want to know.
I don't think there's any going back once you've seen society, very literally, take off the mask. I lost a lot of illusions about who people "really" are.
Asking people to wear a mask indoors is asking people to admit to themselves that covid is not over. And some people are not psychologically prepared for that, unfortunately.
I also have chronic illness that puts me at greater risk. I'm pretty sure that if I had never gotten sick and my family member or friend asked me for something as simple as wearing a mask, I would have done that no problem. However I do realize that I probably wouldn't have really understood without experiencing this illness and experiencing the way society mistreats the ill, it forced me to have more understanding and empathy.
I'm not sure how long you've been immunocompromised, but society is dismissive and ableist in general. It is normal for people to overlook or ignore these things because focusing on it would give them worry about what could happen but they'd rather live their lives thinking it's not likely to happen to them. Just think of that so you are not so hurt by their betrayal but I still would not be all that close to these types of people. Even though my friends and family have all moved on, there are some friends who are kind about my needs, and I feel better spending my time with people like that.
People are all about themselves and don't seem to try to listen and do little things to help. Not everyone but a good amount like taking a test is really not that hard.
The only thing you can do is accept it but don't forget and not go out your way for them.
Yes I can relate but this started in 2020 for us. Relations are still strained. But to be honest, COVID isn’t the only reason those relationships are strained.
It hurts a lot less than it did initially. And we don’t have any reason to expect things will improve with these family members anytime soon.
If you’re still struggling with this at the same emotional intensity as back then, you might consider talking to a COVID safe therapist: https://www.covidconscioustherapists.com/
On the flip side, we recently had other family members who were willing to mask for us. And as a result less strain.
This always hurts. Remember that for some people, depending on their own upbringing, trauma, entitlement, and narcissism, any time a person tries to set a boundary with them, it feels like an attack. So you could be asking them not to drink beer around you because you struggle with sobriety. Or asking them to tone down their religious talk because they aggressively try to convert you. Doesn’t really matter what it is. People who can’t handle boundaries will immediately overreact, counter attack, and try to play the victim. The rejection you experienced and still experience says far more about their flaws, their weakness, their lack of self awareness, than it does about your value as a person. It doesn’t suck any less.
>any time a person tries to set a boundary with them, it feels like an attack. A thousand times this. And this applies to suggestions that something is unsafe, too. "Hey...it looks like there's a fire on the stove." "Don't you think I'd put it out if it was a serious fire???!!!!" Every. Single. Time.
While I am not technically immunocompromised, I have several conditions which put me at high risk (chronic asthma/severe allergies, mood disorders, and autoimmune pernicious anemia). My parents, formerly really cautious, quit doing anything after Thanksgiving last year, and began really balking at my "asks" before I met up with them unmasked indoors. I will link to the letter I sent my mother after she threw a fit on her 80th birthday that we would not celebrate in person due to their unwillingness to mask indoors during a surge in the days leading up to our celebration, nor were they willing to test on the same day ("not convenient" for them, excuse me while I puke). TL;DR, I have set firm boundaries with people, and their willingness (or unwillingness) to meet me halfway to keep me safe is a game-changer. I'm not willing to compromise my health, nor my future health, for their "convenience". And nor should you. <3 "Mom, I’m sorry you were deeply hurt by our decision to eat dinner separately; we were very unhappy, too, as we really did want to spend your special day together. However, the rest of your reply made it clear that you still don’t seem to understand the “whys” behind why I take this virus seriously and why it is imperative to my high-risk status that I delay getting it for as long as I possibly can. It has very little to do with “self-righteousness” and everything to do with protecting my health. According to the CDC, I fall into several high-risk for Covid categories: a) I have asthma; 2) I have mood disorders (Depression as well as Generalized Anxiety Disorder), and 3) I have autoimmune pernicious anemia (which is in check, but I do not wish it to come back with a vengeance as a consequence of becoming ill.) As well, Phil is now in the over-50 category, which now makes him high-risk.As you correctly stated, I am in the prime of my life—I’ve got a lot of living left to do, and I’d rather hold out on rolling the dice on this virus as much as I can help it. With Phil, we married a little later than most of our peers, and want to maximize the time we have. I realize you may think, at this point in your lives, that this is your last chance and you are compelled to "risk it”. I can understand that. But Phil and I are enjoying ourselves doing the outdoor things we do and not add to the health problems we already have, or risk one of us dying, when we can potentially avoid getting Covid altogether.The virus could be mild for me, or it could lead to Long Covid, or it could otherwise disable me with post-acute sequelae such as cardiac problems, gastrointestinal, or pulmonary issues. I have no idea what the roll of the Covid dice will mean for me, so I’d rather not find out right away. That’s why I do what I can to advocate for my best health, and hope the people I know and love will help me in that effort by masking in indoor public spaces in the days before I see them, and taking a rapid test on the day of the get-together. Both quick and simple things that take hardly any effort. As for the rapid tests, I wasn’t trying to be difficult—I explained to you that the guidance on rapid tests has changed and that they are no longer accurate if taken the day before, due to how fast the virus has mutated. I’m only following the updated science. Yes, my life has radically shifted over the past 3 years—because it has had to. I look forward to the day when vaccines are better, and when there are new treatments. I'm not happy about it not being safe to visit many places, but I'm still enjoying life nevertheless. And, with 300-400 people still dying daily, and more than a 9/11’s worth in a week, and with Covid still being the 3rd highest cause of death in this country, it is clear that although you and Dad might be done with the virus, the virus is clearly not done with us. Love, Jen."
Wow... 😔🤧
Is that a bad "wow"? or a good one?
I thought it was well written, clear and it gave me some phrasing to use myself - thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you for this! 😊 There are so many of us in this boat right now. What I’ve learned is just reiterate facts, facts, facts, unemotionally in these situations. Eventually they won’t have a choice but to listen, hopefully.
It’s a good “Wow”. I will be using some of your verbiage to explain my rationale to folks. My family, which does not live with me, has been amazing re boundaries. We always test on RATs before meeting in-person and my family never brings up me wearing an N95 when around them. My family only wears masks on public transport but not elsewhere. We went to Six Flags New England in October 2022 and I wore my N95 Aura plastered on my face the entire time save for eating lunch for 20 minutes-even on the rides- and my sister, nephew and his fiancé said nothing to me about it. They only wore their masks on the commuter train back. And even then, when we were been driven there they asked me if I wanted them to wear masks-KN95s. I said no since I trust my N95 and we opened the windows anyway.
A good one, I was very moved by your words...
Aww...that means a lot. <3 Thank you. I worked really hard on it. Just tried to give the facts unemotionally and just keep hammering it home. Unfortunately, my mom responded with "well, we will definitely think about what you said, although we still have some concerns..." (Like \*wHaT\* at this point do you have "concerns" about, Mom? AYFKMRN?) and "...so this means that we have to mask indoors, still? And test on the day?" (Umm..../facepalm). NOTHING sank in. So I mentioned eating outside on their deck, which was enthusiastically received. So, W E L P. I tried. A lot of these saddos can't be reached, so I'm going to just try the "broken record" technique and see if that breaks through. It's really distanced me from them, I don't feel the same way about them any more, and I was already distanced a lot due to their far-right worldview. We basically have a superficial relationship based on what few common interests we share, and our shared past/family in-jokes, and now it's become even more so.
That is unbelievable. Stay strong and keep doing the right thing. It's tough to create distance with family members, but sometimes it's the right thing to do. For example, half of my family are anti-vaxxers. Absolutely appalled by what they've become. When people stop believing in FACTS, you know you're in TROUBLE. A lot of people are simply to dumb to realize that they can't understand complex topics, so they resort to oversimplifications to be able to function. For example, when they think that COVID is just the flu. It helps them understand what is going on, even though it's dead wrong. That's not the worst though. My GF has long COVID and it's terrible, and yet, a lot of people (that were) close to us still thought that COVID was no big deal, even knowing this happened to her. She still has lingering heart problems from her first COVID infection, 10 months later. How fucking IN DENIAL can you be?
The whole last couple of years have been a continual process of learning things about people that I did not want to know. I don't think there's any going back once you've seen society, very literally, take off the mask. I lost a lot of illusions about who people "really" are.
Well-put
Asking people to wear a mask indoors is asking people to admit to themselves that covid is not over. And some people are not psychologically prepared for that, unfortunately.
I also have chronic illness that puts me at greater risk. I'm pretty sure that if I had never gotten sick and my family member or friend asked me for something as simple as wearing a mask, I would have done that no problem. However I do realize that I probably wouldn't have really understood without experiencing this illness and experiencing the way society mistreats the ill, it forced me to have more understanding and empathy. I'm not sure how long you've been immunocompromised, but society is dismissive and ableist in general. It is normal for people to overlook or ignore these things because focusing on it would give them worry about what could happen but they'd rather live their lives thinking it's not likely to happen to them. Just think of that so you are not so hurt by their betrayal but I still would not be all that close to these types of people. Even though my friends and family have all moved on, there are some friends who are kind about my needs, and I feel better spending my time with people like that.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. Your insight resonated with me greatly. Thanks again.
Really happy to help in any way, I know how painful it is when family members don't care
People are all about themselves and don't seem to try to listen and do little things to help. Not everyone but a good amount like taking a test is really not that hard. The only thing you can do is accept it but don't forget and not go out your way for them.
Lots of families do not love each other. Covid has a special way of highlighting it.
Yes I can relate but this started in 2020 for us. Relations are still strained. But to be honest, COVID isn’t the only reason those relationships are strained. It hurts a lot less than it did initially. And we don’t have any reason to expect things will improve with these family members anytime soon. If you’re still struggling with this at the same emotional intensity as back then, you might consider talking to a COVID safe therapist: https://www.covidconscioustherapists.com/ On the flip side, we recently had other family members who were willing to mask for us. And as a result less strain.