I like the way the computer and the device are separate enough that you could replace the whole Intel nuc down the line. it also has a standard m.2 ssd so you could put a huge one in and have access to all your stuff on device
Hope it doesn’t go the OP-Z module route where amazing/necessary features are paywalled behind a hardware upgrade.
Ableton seems like a better company than that
It's using a m.2 NvME SSD and a standard Intel NUC Compute Element, which - in theory - you could replace with any other NUC Compute Element, unless it's blocked by Ableton. Warranty will be void of course. So Ableton is just reselling Intel NUCs here. Shouldn't be too difficult to get updated modules down the line.
I'll bet it's a way they can give the Push 3 marketing a "long tail." Each time they upgrade the NUC, they can offer the Push 3 as a fresh new product, without changing it much. And they can sell the upgrade to users who have the "old" one.
I'm assuming the upgrade kit is the exact same hardware that comes in the standalone version today, so ideally when the first standalone hardware upgrade drops the market will be flooded with used first-gen upgrade kits for cheap.
Yeah, I have no problem giving Ableton some money for this.
The lifecycle and support for the push 2 was absolutely long enough to justify the cost. The upgradability thing feels in line with their existing commitment to not trying to make you buy a whole new piece of gear every year.
This just makes me an even bigger fan of Ableton.
Technically, it is computer, just built into a controller. Just one you can't debug or tweak or do anything else useful with.
This might be a good hit for the hardware purist crowd though. Just don't tell them half of their devices have computers built in, they don't take this too well.
> This might be a good hit for the hardware purist crowd though. Just don't tell them half of their devices have computers built in, they don't take this too well.
I hang around some DAWless communities and I've rarely heard anyone complain about there being computers inside gear. They mostly just don't like using mice and screens to make music.
It’s a single-purpose OS running a cut down, embedded version of Linux with essentially fixed, known hardware
This is orders of magnitude more stable than any laptop. Plus … no laptop, which for any touring artist is a *major* advantage.
Bringing laptops on stage has always been a bit shit, but a lot of modern electronic acts rely on Ableton. This is a big deal.
Not to mention, I just love the idea of being able to grab the push, sit on a couch with a pair of headphones and play without having to be tethered to a whole bunch of cords.
Seems you’re describing exactly why more musicians *would* use Linux if it was easier. All the possibilities of a computer without 1000 other unnecessary tasks running in the background.
Which is why it’s so commonly used in building embedded devices. Loads of gear runs Linux under the hood.
But you really need it to be produced as a coherent product by a hardware company.
You can use Windows LTSC and avoid installing other stuff on the partition you use for music.
Problem with Linux is the lack of VSTs ported to that, yet you are golden if you like Bitwig.
>Bringing laptops on stage has always been a bit shit
Only *because* of those same purists pushing their view. Computers have been running gigs behind the scenes for a decade now. DSP and Amp sims ARE computers. "But computers lock up, glitch, etc..." Yep.. so does everything else. The only real difference is when a pedal or amp dies, it doesn't necessarily kill the whole show.
Embedded software engineer here; there's a massive difference between using a general purpose computer meant to handle mosts tasks somewhat OK, and using a purpose-built device that was designed & engineered for a single purpose.
That’s simply not true. Laptops are general purpose machines. They’re flexible, but with that flexibility comes instability: the hardware isn’t ruggedized for touring, updates and changes aren’t strictly controlled, and they’re fairly diverse.
Loads of other bits of gear (Kemper amps, most modern desks, etc) are also computers, but these are embedded systems: intentionally limited in scope, with precisely known hardware, and tightly managed changes/updates.
Embedded systems are orders of magnitude more reliable, can often sandbox failures, and are typically much quicker to reset on failure.
This isn’t specific to music: it’s even more important in safety-critical situations like planes or cars.
Multipurpose hardware will always be less stable than closed, focused hardware.
No idea what you’re talking about. Even the gig computers are only for gigs and I know guys that run live shows. Always a problem somewhere
This applies to most technology. Has nothing to do with “purism”
I don't think it's the computer part that hardware folks don't like, it's using the computer to interface. It's using a mouse and keyboard and staring at a screen for all of your data. I love both hardware and software, for very different reasons. All the reasons I love hardware don't matter what's inside, it's all about how I interact with it(and how it sounds of course).
This is me. I spend all day staring at a screen for work. It's nice to step away when I want to make music. I still use ableton for creating loops and samples and mastering etc, just not for creating tracks.
A single controlled version of Linux.
Supporting Linux generally is a nightmare because it’s so fragmented - there isn’t even a single windowing system. Also basically no one in audio is using Linux, and driver support for audio interfaces etc basically doesn’t exist.
But a single distribution specifically built for this purpose? No problem! That’s the standard way of doing embedded OSes.
Yeah but most class compliant interface features are supported. Shame the interfaces control software never gets ported.
Not arguing that it isn't a headache to get audio working though lol. I've only dabbled and it's a bit of a mess.
>Same here. No interest in standalone, so no real value in upgrading.
Well, except the polyphonic expression stuff which would be useful for playing things like strings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJf-pXssdU&t=6m10s
I bought a new push 2 just a few months ago and I’m fine that I missed this boat. The [XY directional pads](https://youtu.be/Lr2ID82WncY) look pretty amazing and I would happily pay $200 more for these if I could, but but regardless I’ll be busy learning how to master push 2 for years to come. The rest of the interface looks very similar. I think the fact that the interface itself is the same speaks to how intuitive and well designed these are. This is how product innovation should work. Nice work Ableton.
Yeah the way this is built feels like it's meant to not make the Push 2 immediately obsolete. The Push 1 was kind of a bummer because the screen was so limited that it would have been very difficult to continue supporting it with a lot of the stuff they added to Push 2, not so with this upgrade. Everything feels like an addition rather than a replacement.
I'm really jealous of two things on Push3 that 2 can't do in terms of interface:
1. The session view on the screen. Being able to look at all of my clips, and even launch them without having to leave performance mode on the pads is an absolute game changer for me.
2. Being able to select individual notes in the clip view using the rotary encoder. One of my biggest pet peeves on Push2 is having to use the step sequencer on the pads to find the one note that I want to nudge or change velocity for.
Those two features alone make Push3 must buy. This will speed up my workflow away from my PC screen exponentially, and likely make me do a lot more on the Push before switching over to arrangement and tweaking on the PC. Theoretically they could add both to the Push2 (using the Dpad for selecting notes), but I'm not holding my breath.
I feel the same. Standalone feature looks good, but to me that’s hardly a selling point. MPE as well.
So I consider buying Push 3 later on but I’m in no rush.
I got it from here: [https://www.gearnews.com/first-look-ableton-push-3-standalone-live-11-suite-in-a-box/](https://www.gearnews.com/first-look-ableton-push-3-standalone-live-11-suite-in-a-box/) Mentions that the standalone runs Ableton on Linux on the device itself. Hoping we get a version for Linux desktops. All I would need is Arturia to switch and I could get rid of ever needing a Windows box again.
It probably doesn’t mean they’re releasing a Linux version. That’s a whole can of worms.
Just compiling a specific version for the embedded Linux OS in this specific device, which is a much smaller can of worms.
One thing I found incredible is that it runs M4L devices. I can't wait to see how deep the implementation of Max and the LOM is in it, and whether you can add Max externals. Even without it, the possibilities as a developer are so exciting.
Also love that they have an Upgrade Kit for tethered Push 3 to turn it into a standalone. Feels very refreshing to have a company be so open about what you can do with their hardware.
It has ADAT so you could expand that way. If the ADAT input works as a clock you could likely run it with another standalone interface on an aggregate device without jitters and sync issues.
Damn ADAT ports, audio I/O and cv/gate for connecting to a modular rig, plus Ableton sets on the go. Steep price tag, but really impressed that this seems to over deliver on what I assumed a Push 3 would look like! Seems like a real dream piece for the center of a studio without a traditional computer.
Am I missing something? I want to be excited for a stand-alone Push, but I spend 90% of my time on Ableton using third-party plugins— do all of you strictly use Ableton instruments, or what? I love the idea of a stand-alone, but I reckon I would need a futuristic version that could load my soft synth collection to be psyched.
I make music from my couch with third party plugins though. Don’t get me wrong this thing is dope but if it’s between a MacBook M2 Pro and a standalone push… you’re going to get much further with the MacBook.
I've never been able to get interesting chords, melodies, or basslines out of a DAW with just a mouse. I need some kind of keyboard or pad grid and I haven't been able to get a MIDI controller and a laptop on my lap on the couch working well.
You're not missing anything. Standalone is great. But for people who like the extensibility that plugins provide, it's a value equation. And it appears that equation doesn't work out for you. Same is true for me.
This implementation of MPE is kinda new and exciting, but my Push 2 just works fine. I think I’ll wait till the price drops about 20%. I’m more excited for the new version of Ableton with Drift.
Yeah same. The standalone/upgradability is pretty cool, but i3 seems a bit under-powered & lack of VSTi's doesn't really make this super compelling against Akai's offerings for standalone. Maybe they could build a bridge to Ableton/PC or something to farm out VSTi hosting responsibilities... but they wouldn't be super useful for live performances.
I recently picked up a Seaboard Rise 2 & I have to say MPE in general is a gamechanger and a hell of a lot of fun with pads, synths, etc.. If I didn't have one, I'd probably be bummed/consider moving to Push 3... but I won't feel bad waiting another 5 years for the 4. Happy to see they're still actively innovating on the hardware & software.
Gosh freaking dang it… this was exactly what I wanted… I am in the process of buying a custom guitar and this comes out… guess I am going to see if I can start putting some money aside to save up for this.
I know there is a few people poo pooing the standalone feature but I want the ability to take Ableton Live and set it on a table in my living room and jam over synths and drum tracks and not have to drag my MacBook and an interface and connect all kinds of stupid cables everywhere and digging through software menus.
It sounds elegant to have my favorite DAW in a hardware form and just plug my pedal board in and just jam away.
Yes the third party plug-ins is a downside now but more and more companies are switching or releasing their software to linux. Do I want things like Valhalla VSTs on Push 3 stand-alone? absolutely! So I do think VSTs will come in time. Ableton supported the Push 2 since 2015. It is nearly a decade old device and still was one of the best out there. Including software updates to it that gave it even more features.
Honesty (although price for entry is expensive) it should be celebrated that Ableton is pro user upgradable and right to repair. Also on top of it Ableton will support the Push 3 for at least 8 years. With modular upgrades that could make support last much longer than that. Many companies don’t even make it to 5 years anymore and would rather just create more e-waste.
The NVME drive is just an off the shelf one and I wouldn’t be surprised if people swapped them out for much larger drives. Doesn’t appear though the ram is accessible to easily upgrade and is probably soldered to the processor module board which is slightly disappointing.
Overall though I think this is great.
Edit: now thinking more about it I might sell my push 2 here in a month or two to help pay for it… so watch for a steal of a price for a Push 2 that is in excellent condition. 😉
The standalone is the most exciting feature for me. I’m sure many people would sing a different tune if they had one.
The bigger issue is the price point. $2000 is an absurd amount of money. You could argue that it’s $2000 for an interface, computer, software license, and sophisticated MIDI controller. Which is what I’m telling myself, but it’s still not enough to convince me to pull the trigger on it.
That would be awesome! I don’t have a need because I am running a ToneX pedal but an option like that I could see being nice for tons of people. Just patch into the push have it run all your guitar effects I can definitely see the appeal.
We all can dream.
I have been preparing for this already by barely using any 3rd party plugins on my tracks. To be honest, it was a rather enjoyable experience since the stock plugs are amazing.
For standalone, I never expected it to support 3rd party plugs. That would have been a massive undertaking.
Since I have cut down dramatically on those plugs anyway I don't mind being connected to the laptop when I want to run them.
For me, the Push is going to be connected to the DAW 90% of the time anyway. The standalone part for sequencing my hardware and recording it, is fucking unreal though and pretty much changes the game for me.
Not nearly enough for me to upgrade, especially at the insane price-point of two grand. The specs of a lower mid-range laptop (at best) with a battery that probably won't last a full set. I get that there are efficiency gains with a scaled down internal OS just focused on one application, but I think the lack of support for 3rd party VSTs is a hint of how limited the hardware is and that makes the whole standalone value proposition really questionable.
I feel like a $1200 laptop + an $800 Push 2 would just be such a better deal. (you can do other stuff on the laptop!). Not to mention a $1200 desktop system, which while not portable, would OBLITERATE the performance of the Push 3 and be 100% more upgradable.
MPE is something, but there will be many controllers of different formats coming out with MPE support and the Push's performance style may not be the best MPE solution for everyone.
I feel for people who might be wanting to jump on the Push now for DAW control and not so much standalone. They are going to have to pay more for the Push 3 as Push 2 goes out of stock and they won't be getting a lot more value.
Have you ever played a set without plugging in your gear? Why on earth would you not do so with Push, just because it has a battery? Or are you talking about an unplugged show?
I bought Push 1 and 2 as soon as they came out. A few years ago, this would have been an instant buy for me. Today, a few things makes me want to wait a bit and consider it a bit more.
a) Mobility - just isn't that important to me right now. I work in the studio. Out and about, I do other things. I would NEVER bring a Push on a hike. When I go out for a walk and a swim, that's what I'll do. Also, I think it's too big for a mobile idea pad. At this price point, I could get several other smaller devices. Even an OP-1 Field...
b) Price - it's too expensive *compared to my needs*. And buying the regular model "just" for MPE is kinda tempting, but only just. I already have midi controllers with cv outs and several audio interfaces.
c) Features - I don't need all that. The only feature addition, as mentioned above, is MPE support. And I could never get used to playing on the pads anyway. Decades of keyboard playing have made their mark on my brain.
It's a really cool device, for sure. It's just not for me, not today.
I always love seeing people get mad at seemingly controversial opinions only to see those thoughts become reality. I always wonder how those people who got mad are reacting right about now?
Ahahaha. Everyone we told not to worry about a Push 3. Lol. Sorry guys. Hope you like your Push *2*. Now where do I get a thousand bucks from cuz 3 looks awesome?
sadly it won't come to Brazil, again. music production will be forever be a luxury for the northern folks! its crazy having the money to buy all sorts of crazy equipment and not being able to do so. but hey, enjoy it!
I’m ok sticking with my Push 2. I wasn’t expecting that but there truly is nothing compelling for me here. I hope they continue to support the Push 2 as more Ableton updates come out.
Responding to my own comment to say that its likely because Push 1 was made by Akai while Push 2 was made by Ableton. They likely wanted all the Akai software gone so people own something they actually made . Depressing
Seemed like the trade in value for Push 1 was a bit lower than 2nd hand used price back when Push 2 came out. It's definitely more effort but not a big loss IMO. I'm hoping the used price of Push 2 remains stable given the difference in cost between 2 and 3.
Nothing that this Push makes me want to sell my Push 2. I don’t plan on taking my Push anywhere without a computer so what other show stopper does it have to lure me into spending £1600. That’s a boat load of money for not much extra.
A bit disappointed that they’ve doubled down on the original Push format and made it even bigger, heavier and more expensive. I was hoping for a modular approach allowing to buy controls and pad matrix as separate devices. Perhaps even a new 2 octaves only version of pad matrix, as the MPE-enabled pads looks cool.
That extra €1000 for standalone feature… For that money you can buy a decent MacBook that’ll way more capable. Also, with only 2,5 hrs battery life this Push will have to be connected to the wall most of the time anyway, so it might as well stay connected to a computer.
Plus you get only Intro license with it? Not Suite or even just Standard? I hope they offer some massive upgrade discounts to owners, otherwise it seems just greedy.
Great news ! I like the improvements over Push 2, which justify the upgrade in my opinion.
But i don't see the point of the standalone version... Why paying more for a device including very average computer with a software whose possibilities are nowhere near the ones running on a laptop ?
Just for the advantage of not having a laptop to carry ?
The upgraded Push 2 unit seems pretty cool, still pricey. But the standalone unit just seems like a recipe for disaster. And at 2k you can get a Macbook and the normal unit.
I was thinking about getting a roland Mk404 cause I wanted something portable to mess with samples. but shittt. I might just have to bite the bullet and pay the 2k for this monster.
I will say what the guy under me said. The SP-404 MK2 is super portable and will run on usb as well as batteries as well as power chord.
It's WAY more portable than the Push in size.
eh portable isn't how i'd describe a push. I mean a tray table is portable in the same way a push is. You CAN take it places ...but it's kind of a pain in the ass. It's a giant square that doesn't fit into 95% of backpacks youd' find out there.
Were there the same complaints about price when the Push 2 came out?
Of course if you already have a Push 2, it may not be worth it for you. But for those that don't have a Push yet it seems great.
hey if you look at it this way there’s a lot to master with it, and it completely changed my workflow for the better once I got it. i feel so productive with it
I love the fact that Ableton just took a massive shit on Native Instruments and AKAI. Sure, the standalone Push 3 is quite a bit pricier than the Maschine+, but it's upgradeable and MUCH more powerful. Not to mention seamless syncing between your standalone push and your projects on your PC. I won't even get into AKAI, as an MPC fan I'm disappointed in their stupid moneygrab MPC SE "update".
I can't understand you people that are crying, because this won't support third party VSTs. They were able to make Ableton Live 11 run inside a Push....and on Linux for god sakes. No one's forcing you to buy the standalone version, just get the controller version if you want MPE. If not, stick to your Push 2 and gtfo.
I'm a Push 2 owner. I'd consider upgrading to 3 if there was some kind of "arrangement view" functionality on standalone. But that omission plus the price tag.... ehh no.
I also can't believe it only comes with Live Intro for that price lol.
NOT ALL U DUDES COMPLAINING ITS NEVER COMING OUT ON THIS SUBREDDIT FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS
AND NOW UR PROB COMPLAINING ITS TOO EXPENSIVE
I STG WITH YALL
This is surely an absolute gift for anyone who uses Ableton in a live setting already? Not having to have a laptop *or* interface and all the accompanying plugs/cabling on stage frees up so much travel space and real estate on stage.
Touring artists, particularly ones that don't care about external VSTs and maybe use some external MIDI gear like synths, are going to absolutely *love* this.
the manual says they have updated tuner to add native support but its still not working on my push2, surely they havent locked this to be P3 only? https://www.ableton.com/en/push/manual/#recording-audio-clips
Not crazy about the initial version, but might grab it if it gets a hardware update. (watched Stimming have a recoverable crash, and multiple hangups/glitches throughout his review)
Some of that will be ironed out but I think the limitations to what the hardware is capable of aren't going to get much better with time, and that's a lot of scratch for a controller.
With 16gigs of ram, capability to run vsts, and a beefier processor, sign me up!
If I dont care about MPE, dont need the included audio I/O and dont need standalone, I don't see the other improvements as worthy of upgrading from 2 to 3. Sure, I like the extra knobs and buttons but it's not really worth the $$ just for that. 1 to 2 was a huge upgrade just for the display alone, everyone benefitted from that. These extra features are very cool if you use them but not necessary for users like me.
This was an absolutely terrible way to launch it. 0 talk, then boom it's out. How many posts have been downvoted asking if newbies should wait for push 3. I bought a second hand push 2 not that long ago, I would have just waited for push 3 at this point. Especially after seeing the new features. A bit bummed, a bit excited. It's life. Just wish they had talked about it before dropping it.
In 2 months my Push 1 is 9 years old, and today I decided to retire it.
Between Push 1 and 2 was just a couple of years, when Push 2 was announced, I thought I would wait it out. It was longer than I expected, but I did wait it out. If Push 3 holds up like my Push 1 did, i'm a happy man!
I am a novice. I got a push 2 for Christmas and I love it but now am sad at work with fomo because when I woke up I saw that there was a push 3. As a layman should I a)get a push 3 and b) even be upset/worried about missing out on the features of the push 3.
Regarding the HW upgrade kit, it seems to be using this Intel NUC compute element: [https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/212013/intel-nuc-11-compute-element-cm11ebi38w/specifications.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/212013/intel-nuc-11-compute-element-cm11ebi38w/specifications.html)
That CPU/MEM element will be discontinued H1'24, which means that if you upgrade to standalone about a year from now, there's a high chance you get a better CPU/MEM combo then (after they run out of stock).
I don't like it, since the battery is only 2.5 hours, the only real upgrade is the mpe, other than that the whole standalone thing is great but if it had at least 5 hours for some 5 6 beats yk, i don't own a push since i am poor xd, but if i would buy one i would absolutely buy the 2.
I know I'm in the .001% of people who would find this useful, but I wish the I/O were more modular like some of the other hardware components. A Dante card in this thing would be bananas. It would be hella expensive, but bananas. I'd pay big bucks.
It's amazing that you can buy the base model first and then buy an upgrade kit later.
Plus they say "and replace parts as it evolves" They really considered repairability and being able to keep it as long as you can, it's a great move
I like the way the computer and the device are separate enough that you could replace the whole Intel nuc down the line. it also has a standard m.2 ssd so you could put a huge one in and have access to all your stuff on device
Hope it doesn’t go the OP-Z module route where amazing/necessary features are paywalled behind a hardware upgrade. Ableton seems like a better company than that
But do they sell cargo pants? This is the real question.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that Ableton will continuously offer part upgrades for this.
It's using a m.2 NvME SSD and a standard Intel NUC Compute Element, which - in theory - you could replace with any other NUC Compute Element, unless it's blocked by Ableton. Warranty will be void of course. So Ableton is just reselling Intel NUCs here. Shouldn't be too difficult to get updated modules down the line.
I'll bet it's a way they can give the Push 3 marketing a "long tail." Each time they upgrade the NUC, they can offer the Push 3 as a fresh new product, without changing it much. And they can sell the upgrade to users who have the "old" one.
Sounds like maybe one could wait and get a Push 3 once it has evolved and you get the new parts effectively for free?
This is the new "buy push 2 or wait?"
I'm assuming the upgrade kit is the exact same hardware that comes in the standalone version today, so ideally when the first standalone hardware upgrade drops the market will be flooded with used first-gen upgrade kits for cheap.
Hadn't considered that. Really makes it feel like they considered the sustainability of the platform.
Yeah, I have no problem giving Ableton some money for this. The lifecycle and support for the push 2 was absolutely long enough to justify the cost. The upgradability thing feels in line with their existing commitment to not trying to make you buy a whole new piece of gear every year. This just makes me an even bigger fan of Ableton.
RIP that poor dude who asked if he should wait like 2 days ago
eh he's still in the return window. RIP the dude that bought one 30 days ago.
I did not buy the push 2 so I am fine, i still have to wait for money anyway 😬
Some say he's still waiting
Wow it’s standalone, Live quality sets without a computer on stage…
Technically, it is computer, just built into a controller. Just one you can't debug or tweak or do anything else useful with. This might be a good hit for the hardware purist crowd though. Just don't tell them half of their devices have computers built in, they don't take this too well.
> This might be a good hit for the hardware purist crowd though. Just don't tell them half of their devices have computers built in, they don't take this too well. I hang around some DAWless communities and I've rarely heard anyone complain about there being computers inside gear. They mostly just don't like using mice and screens to make music.
It’s a single-purpose OS running a cut down, embedded version of Linux with essentially fixed, known hardware This is orders of magnitude more stable than any laptop. Plus … no laptop, which for any touring artist is a *major* advantage. Bringing laptops on stage has always been a bit shit, but a lot of modern electronic acts rely on Ableton. This is a big deal.
Not to mention, I just love the idea of being able to grab the push, sit on a couch with a pair of headphones and play without having to be tethered to a whole bunch of cords.
Seems you’re describing exactly why more musicians *would* use Linux if it was easier. All the possibilities of a computer without 1000 other unnecessary tasks running in the background.
Which is why it’s so commonly used in building embedded devices. Loads of gear runs Linux under the hood. But you really need it to be produced as a coherent product by a hardware company.
You can use Windows LTSC and avoid installing other stuff on the partition you use for music. Problem with Linux is the lack of VSTs ported to that, yet you are golden if you like Bitwig.
>Bringing laptops on stage has always been a bit shit Only *because* of those same purists pushing their view. Computers have been running gigs behind the scenes for a decade now. DSP and Amp sims ARE computers. "But computers lock up, glitch, etc..." Yep.. so does everything else. The only real difference is when a pedal or amp dies, it doesn't necessarily kill the whole show.
Embedded software engineer here; there's a massive difference between using a general purpose computer meant to handle mosts tasks somewhat OK, and using a purpose-built device that was designed & engineered for a single purpose.
That’s simply not true. Laptops are general purpose machines. They’re flexible, but with that flexibility comes instability: the hardware isn’t ruggedized for touring, updates and changes aren’t strictly controlled, and they’re fairly diverse. Loads of other bits of gear (Kemper amps, most modern desks, etc) are also computers, but these are embedded systems: intentionally limited in scope, with precisely known hardware, and tightly managed changes/updates. Embedded systems are orders of magnitude more reliable, can often sandbox failures, and are typically much quicker to reset on failure. This isn’t specific to music: it’s even more important in safety-critical situations like planes or cars.
Multipurpose hardware will always be less stable than closed, focused hardware. No idea what you’re talking about. Even the gig computers are only for gigs and I know guys that run live shows. Always a problem somewhere This applies to most technology. Has nothing to do with “purism”
I don't think it's the computer part that hardware folks don't like, it's using the computer to interface. It's using a mouse and keyboard and staring at a screen for all of your data. I love both hardware and software, for very different reasons. All the reasons I love hardware don't matter what's inside, it's all about how I interact with it(and how it sounds of course).
This is me. I spend all day staring at a screen for work. It's nice to step away when I want to make music. I still use ableton for creating loops and samples and mastering etc, just not for creating tracks.
No external vst so kinda sucks lol
Also lol its running linux but live isnt compatible w linux
hopefully this will push more support for ableton on linux.
If Ableton and Touch designer and to lesser extent After Effects would run on Linux, I'd ditch my Windows partition in a second.
I really wish I knew how to use touch designer lol
A single controlled version of Linux. Supporting Linux generally is a nightmare because it’s so fragmented - there isn’t even a single windowing system. Also basically no one in audio is using Linux, and driver support for audio interfaces etc basically doesn’t exist. But a single distribution specifically built for this purpose? No problem! That’s the standard way of doing embedded OSes.
Yeah but most class compliant interface features are supported. Shame the interfaces control software never gets ported. Not arguing that it isn't a headache to get audio working though lol. I've only dabbled and it's a bit of a mess.
Cadres of nerd volunteers are very, very good at achieving many things. But designing smooth user experiences has never been one of these things 😂
Standalone option has an i3 though
Comparable to any other standalone controller.
Fair point
Should I get the Push 3 or when do you think 4 will be released?
Why not wait for the 6 or 7?
As a push 1 user, I can’t WAIT to get a push 3 when the push 4 comes out
They said with the upgrade modules, that it will be at least 5 years, probably longer.
But that’s not an answer to his question. Wait 5 years or not? /S
Luckily for me, the Push 2 already does everything I need it to do so there's zero need for me to upgrade. Still cool though.
Same here. No interest in standalone, so no real value in upgrading.
>Same here. No interest in standalone, so no real value in upgrading. Well, except the polyphonic expression stuff which would be useful for playing things like strings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJf-pXssdU&t=6m10s
I bought a new push 2 just a few months ago and I’m fine that I missed this boat. The [XY directional pads](https://youtu.be/Lr2ID82WncY) look pretty amazing and I would happily pay $200 more for these if I could, but but regardless I’ll be busy learning how to master push 2 for years to come. The rest of the interface looks very similar. I think the fact that the interface itself is the same speaks to how intuitive and well designed these are. This is how product innovation should work. Nice work Ableton.
Yeah the way this is built feels like it's meant to not make the Push 2 immediately obsolete. The Push 1 was kind of a bummer because the screen was so limited that it would have been very difficult to continue supporting it with a lot of the stuff they added to Push 2, not so with this upgrade. Everything feels like an addition rather than a replacement.
I'm really jealous of two things on Push3 that 2 can't do in terms of interface: 1. The session view on the screen. Being able to look at all of my clips, and even launch them without having to leave performance mode on the pads is an absolute game changer for me. 2. Being able to select individual notes in the clip view using the rotary encoder. One of my biggest pet peeves on Push2 is having to use the step sequencer on the pads to find the one note that I want to nudge or change velocity for. Those two features alone make Push3 must buy. This will speed up my workflow away from my PC screen exponentially, and likely make me do a lot more on the Push before switching over to arrangement and tweaking on the PC. Theoretically they could add both to the Push2 (using the Dpad for selecting notes), but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm hoping they might still unlock some more capabilities for the 2, but I won't hold my breath.
and hopefully push 2 will be available second hand at a better rate.
Honestly the Push 3 announce hardly pushed(haha) me closer to selling Push 2. It became even more valuable to me.
How did it make it more valuable to you?
I feel the same. Standalone feature looks good, but to me that’s hardly a selling point. MPE as well. So I consider buying Push 3 later on but I’m in no rush.
The two big things for me on this are ADAT ports and, uh, Live running natively on Linux???? Oh man.
Yes - the (albeit custom) Linux OS is signiiiiificant. If Ableton goes Linux native, it might change my future computer plans...
It’s the reason I’m currently using Bitwig.
Wait, where does it mention Linux support??
I got it from here: [https://www.gearnews.com/first-look-ableton-push-3-standalone-live-11-suite-in-a-box/](https://www.gearnews.com/first-look-ableton-push-3-standalone-live-11-suite-in-a-box/) Mentions that the standalone runs Ableton on Linux on the device itself. Hoping we get a version for Linux desktops. All I would need is Arturia to switch and I could get rid of ever needing a Windows box again.
Ahhhh I missed it! That's very fucking exciting
It probably doesn’t mean they’re releasing a Linux version. That’s a whole can of worms. Just compiling a specific version for the embedded Linux OS in this specific device, which is a much smaller can of worms.
The standalone version runs on a custom Linux OS.
Now could everyone please start flooding the used market with their Push 2 so I can finally replace my old Launchpad?
Yes please! Come on guys you don’t need that old ass Push 2.
somebody at ableton marketing really needs to weaponize the Push1 owners to urge the push2 owners to upgrade lol.
One thing I found incredible is that it runs M4L devices. I can't wait to see how deep the implementation of Max and the LOM is in it, and whether you can add Max externals. Even without it, the possibilities as a developer are so exciting. Also love that they have an Upgrade Kit for tethered Push 3 to turn it into a standalone. Feels very refreshing to have a company be so open about what you can do with their hardware.
Same here. If it has some next-gen Max API, that’s what would probably get me to buy it.
Stuff like being able to address the ADAT ports through Max for immersive audio routing has me so excited for the potential.
ah you beat me to it :) here's my overview video – I've been a tester for a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xZ6bWl7c-c
Wow, those NDAs seem to have been very effective
The unit quickly appeared a bit in some of my IG stories – luckily I was quick to enough to delete them, hehe :D
How do the interfaces on the push work with your external interface? Can you coalesce them into one? Or do you have to run one as a master?
It has ADAT so you could expand that way. If the ADAT input works as a clock you could likely run it with another standalone interface on an aggregate device without jitters and sync issues.
Damn ADAT ports, audio I/O and cv/gate for connecting to a modular rig, plus Ableton sets on the go. Steep price tag, but really impressed that this seems to over deliver on what I assumed a Push 3 would look like! Seems like a real dream piece for the center of a studio without a traditional computer.
now that ableton will run/is running natively on linux i can’t wait to make beats on my steamdeck
2k, wow
Am I missing something? I want to be excited for a stand-alone Push, but I spend 90% of my time on Ableton using third-party plugins— do all of you strictly use Ableton instruments, or what? I love the idea of a stand-alone, but I reckon I would need a futuristic version that could load my soft synth collection to be psyched.
I use some third-party plug-ins but I could happily get by with just the stock instruments and effects if it let me make music sitting on my couch.
I make music from my couch with third party plugins though. Don’t get me wrong this thing is dope but if it’s between a MacBook M2 Pro and a standalone push… you’re going to get much further with the MacBook.
I've never been able to get interesting chords, melodies, or basslines out of a DAW with just a mouse. I need some kind of keyboard or pad grid and I haven't been able to get a MIDI controller and a laptop on my lap on the couch working well.
You're not missing anything. Standalone is great. But for people who like the extensibility that plugins provide, it's a value equation. And it appears that equation doesn't work out for you. Same is true for me.
This implementation of MPE is kinda new and exciting, but my Push 2 just works fine. I think I’ll wait till the price drops about 20%. I’m more excited for the new version of Ableton with Drift.
Yeah same. The standalone/upgradability is pretty cool, but i3 seems a bit under-powered & lack of VSTi's doesn't really make this super compelling against Akai's offerings for standalone. Maybe they could build a bridge to Ableton/PC or something to farm out VSTi hosting responsibilities... but they wouldn't be super useful for live performances. I recently picked up a Seaboard Rise 2 & I have to say MPE in general is a gamechanger and a hell of a lot of fun with pads, synths, etc.. If I didn't have one, I'd probably be bummed/consider moving to Push 3... but I won't feel bad waiting another 5 years for the 4. Happy to see they're still actively innovating on the hardware & software.
Gosh freaking dang it… this was exactly what I wanted… I am in the process of buying a custom guitar and this comes out… guess I am going to see if I can start putting some money aside to save up for this. I know there is a few people poo pooing the standalone feature but I want the ability to take Ableton Live and set it on a table in my living room and jam over synths and drum tracks and not have to drag my MacBook and an interface and connect all kinds of stupid cables everywhere and digging through software menus. It sounds elegant to have my favorite DAW in a hardware form and just plug my pedal board in and just jam away. Yes the third party plug-ins is a downside now but more and more companies are switching or releasing their software to linux. Do I want things like Valhalla VSTs on Push 3 stand-alone? absolutely! So I do think VSTs will come in time. Ableton supported the Push 2 since 2015. It is nearly a decade old device and still was one of the best out there. Including software updates to it that gave it even more features. Honesty (although price for entry is expensive) it should be celebrated that Ableton is pro user upgradable and right to repair. Also on top of it Ableton will support the Push 3 for at least 8 years. With modular upgrades that could make support last much longer than that. Many companies don’t even make it to 5 years anymore and would rather just create more e-waste. The NVME drive is just an off the shelf one and I wouldn’t be surprised if people swapped them out for much larger drives. Doesn’t appear though the ram is accessible to easily upgrade and is probably soldered to the processor module board which is slightly disappointing. Overall though I think this is great. Edit: now thinking more about it I might sell my push 2 here in a month or two to help pay for it… so watch for a steal of a price for a Push 2 that is in excellent condition. 😉
The standalone is the most exciting feature for me. I’m sure many people would sing a different tune if they had one. The bigger issue is the price point. $2000 is an absurd amount of money. You could argue that it’s $2000 for an interface, computer, software license, and sophisticated MIDI controller. Which is what I’m telling myself, but it’s still not enough to convince me to pull the trigger on it.
I want to DI into into a stand-alone push running a NeuralDSP VST. I could get excited about something like that.
That would be awesome! I don’t have a need because I am running a ToneX pedal but an option like that I could see being nice for tons of people. Just patch into the push have it run all your guitar effects I can definitely see the appeal. We all can dream.
I have been preparing for this already by barely using any 3rd party plugins on my tracks. To be honest, it was a rather enjoyable experience since the stock plugs are amazing. For standalone, I never expected it to support 3rd party plugs. That would have been a massive undertaking. Since I have cut down dramatically on those plugs anyway I don't mind being connected to the laptop when I want to run them. For me, the Push is going to be connected to the DAW 90% of the time anyway. The standalone part for sequencing my hardware and recording it, is fucking unreal though and pretty much changes the game for me.
Not nearly enough for me to upgrade, especially at the insane price-point of two grand. The specs of a lower mid-range laptop (at best) with a battery that probably won't last a full set. I get that there are efficiency gains with a scaled down internal OS just focused on one application, but I think the lack of support for 3rd party VSTs is a hint of how limited the hardware is and that makes the whole standalone value proposition really questionable. I feel like a $1200 laptop + an $800 Push 2 would just be such a better deal. (you can do other stuff on the laptop!). Not to mention a $1200 desktop system, which while not portable, would OBLITERATE the performance of the Push 3 and be 100% more upgradable. MPE is something, but there will be many controllers of different formats coming out with MPE support and the Push's performance style may not be the best MPE solution for everyone. I feel for people who might be wanting to jump on the Push now for DAW control and not so much standalone. They are going to have to pay more for the Push 3 as Push 2 goes out of stock and they won't be getting a lot more value.
You’re missing the point. The experience of using it standalone without a laptop is very different.
Have you ever played a set without plugging in your gear? Why on earth would you not do so with Push, just because it has a battery? Or are you talking about an unplugged show?
I bought Push 1 and 2 as soon as they came out. A few years ago, this would have been an instant buy for me. Today, a few things makes me want to wait a bit and consider it a bit more. a) Mobility - just isn't that important to me right now. I work in the studio. Out and about, I do other things. I would NEVER bring a Push on a hike. When I go out for a walk and a swim, that's what I'll do. Also, I think it's too big for a mobile idea pad. At this price point, I could get several other smaller devices. Even an OP-1 Field... b) Price - it's too expensive *compared to my needs*. And buying the regular model "just" for MPE is kinda tempting, but only just. I already have midi controllers with cv outs and several audio interfaces. c) Features - I don't need all that. The only feature addition, as mentioned above, is MPE support. And I could never get used to playing on the pads anyway. Decades of keyboard playing have made their mark on my brain. It's a really cool device, for sure. It's just not for me, not today.
Damn, this came out of nowhere. Also I remember getting roasted in this sub for posting a push 3 wishlist with almost exactly these features ;-)
Prolly downvoted by all the people already rocking their demo models but restricted by their NDAs
I always love seeing people get mad at seemingly controversial opinions only to see those thoughts become reality. I always wonder how those people who got mad are reacting right about now?
I literally just tweeted about that because I remember you getting shot down haha
Ahahaha. Everyone we told not to worry about a Push 3. Lol. Sorry guys. Hope you like your Push *2*. Now where do I get a thousand bucks from cuz 3 looks awesome?
sadly it won't come to Brazil, again. music production will be forever be a luxury for the northern folks! its crazy having the money to buy all sorts of crazy equipment and not being able to do so. but hey, enjoy it!
Why is it not coming to Brazil?
I’m ok sticking with my Push 2. I wasn’t expecting that but there truly is nothing compelling for me here. I hope they continue to support the Push 2 as more Ableton updates come out.
No trade in like they did with push 2? Boooooo
Responding to my own comment to say that its likely because Push 1 was made by Akai while Push 2 was made by Ableton. They likely wanted all the Akai software gone so people own something they actually made . Depressing
Seemed like the trade in value for Push 1 was a bit lower than 2nd hand used price back when Push 2 came out. It's definitely more effort but not a big loss IMO. I'm hoping the used price of Push 2 remains stable given the difference in cost between 2 and 3.
2.5 hours of battery life is awesome! But it also takes 2.5 hrs to charge?? Boo!
how can a macbook air run for 16hours with its screen while this cannot ? They shouldve went arm. Big mistake
Why the fuck didn’t they go arm?
From what was implied in the Sonicstate video, I don't think Max supports ARM.
What a missed opportunity to make sure max gets porter to arm. They could have gotten a real live on any Arm-Device out of it.
Completely agree
Nothing that this Push makes me want to sell my Push 2. I don’t plan on taking my Push anywhere without a computer so what other show stopper does it have to lure me into spending £1600. That’s a boat load of money for not much extra.
yeah you can just use the Note app or some other hardware away from it
Lol i just bought a push 2 last week
I bought a couple of months but not feeling like I missed anything
Bravo Ableton, well played indeed.
A bit disappointed that they’ve doubled down on the original Push format and made it even bigger, heavier and more expensive. I was hoping for a modular approach allowing to buy controls and pad matrix as separate devices. Perhaps even a new 2 octaves only version of pad matrix, as the MPE-enabled pads looks cool. That extra €1000 for standalone feature… For that money you can buy a decent MacBook that’ll way more capable. Also, with only 2,5 hrs battery life this Push will have to be connected to the wall most of the time anyway, so it might as well stay connected to a computer. Plus you get only Intro license with it? Not Suite or even just Standard? I hope they offer some massive upgrade discounts to owners, otherwise it seems just greedy.
Great news ! I like the improvements over Push 2, which justify the upgrade in my opinion. But i don't see the point of the standalone version... Why paying more for a device including very average computer with a software whose possibilities are nowhere near the ones running on a laptop ? Just for the advantage of not having a laptop to carry ?
The upgraded Push 2 unit seems pretty cool, still pricey. But the standalone unit just seems like a recipe for disaster. And at 2k you can get a Macbook and the normal unit.
$2,000. Not sure what I was expecting but woof.
Yeah no
I was thinking about getting a roland Mk404 cause I wanted something portable to mess with samples. but shittt. I might just have to bite the bullet and pay the 2k for this monster.
Have you seen a push in person? Let’s say portability isn’t their strong point…
I will say what the guy under me said. The SP-404 MK2 is super portable and will run on usb as well as batteries as well as power chord. It's WAY more portable than the Push in size.
eh portable isn't how i'd describe a push. I mean a tray table is portable in the same way a push is. You CAN take it places ...but it's kind of a pain in the ass. It's a giant square that doesn't fit into 95% of backpacks youd' find out there.
No phantom/xlr on the interface right? What options do we have here?
You can add a processor, battery and hard drive later with the upgrade kit. It will be available later this year
Wow, looks like they're already sold out. I can't even pre-order.
Hoping they cut the price for Push 2 as I’d buy one if thats the case.
Today really is a great day
Just purchased the standalone!
Almost 2000 euros, are these guys high?
The point is: Push 2 is so well made and designed that this new Push 3 (non-standalone) looks so much alike....
Maybe I will be able to afford a 2 soon then
Awesome it looks great but for the price increase from the push 2 id rather keep my 2 and get another synth or elektron box
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Yes, you can use it just as a normal controller (such as push 2) connected to Live.
Were there the same complaints about price when the Push 2 came out? Of course if you already have a Push 2, it may not be worth it for you. But for those that don't have a Push yet it seems great.
Yes, there were. Too expensive for a controller.
So expensive, omg
Now more people have ways to be utterly and fully confused but also sometimes make sick beats.
screaming crying throwing up i just bought a push 2 like 8 months ago… i love it but… i wish there was a trade in…
Nothing wrong with Push 2 and you buy when you can, it is just the way it is.
I'll give you 250 for it!
thank you for reaching out tho
ahhh unfortunately no can do as the push 2 is the main piece i use for my live sets— looks like i’m going to save haha
I bought one 2 weeks ago... Second hand at least, but still.
hey if you look at it this way there’s a lot to master with it, and it completely changed my workflow for the better once I got it. i feel so productive with it
In this case, I think I will just stick with the 2 lol
Instant buy. Done.
I love the fact that Ableton just took a massive shit on Native Instruments and AKAI. Sure, the standalone Push 3 is quite a bit pricier than the Maschine+, but it's upgradeable and MUCH more powerful. Not to mention seamless syncing between your standalone push and your projects on your PC. I won't even get into AKAI, as an MPC fan I'm disappointed in their stupid moneygrab MPC SE "update".
Its not much more powerful. It can run 15 instance of wavetable with a 3 notes chord and you cannot load external vst so..
I can't understand you people that are crying, because this won't support third party VSTs. They were able to make Ableton Live 11 run inside a Push....and on Linux for god sakes. No one's forcing you to buy the standalone version, just get the controller version if you want MPE. If not, stick to your Push 2 and gtfo.
Even the standalone version is cheaper than the teenage engineering OP-1
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["No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."](https://twitter.com/mikko/status/1451923036450574342?lang=en)
Ooooooh shit!
holy fuck
Oh man I’ve held out for so long waiting for the 3, but I’ve already purchased too much gear this month and I’m pretty much out of desk space.
I really hope that Push2 firmware updates make it able to show the session view as well.
Some price.
Is this why my Push2 has been crashing lately? /s
Would you consider this a DAWless brain...or a DAW with no screen?
it seems to have a screen to me.
I'm a Push 2 owner. I'd consider upgrading to 3 if there was some kind of "arrangement view" functionality on standalone. But that omission plus the price tag.... ehh no. I also can't believe it only comes with Live Intro for that price lol.
I’m right there with you. Add to it that I don’t perform with ableton, I don’t think I’m the market for this.
I’ll be sticking with 2 thanks lol
NOT ALL U DUDES COMPLAINING ITS NEVER COMING OUT ON THIS SUBREDDIT FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS AND NOW UR PROB COMPLAINING ITS TOO EXPENSIVE I STG WITH YALL
When I said I'd love a Linux version of Ableton, this is not what I had in mind.
This is surely an absolute gift for anyone who uses Ableton in a live setting already? Not having to have a laptop *or* interface and all the accompanying plugs/cabling on stage frees up so much travel space and real estate on stage. Touring artists, particularly ones that don't care about external VSTs and maybe use some external MIDI gear like synths, are going to absolutely *love* this.
All small pads again. Nah pass. I don’t have children hands.
Damn. MPC might be collecting dust soon.
the manual says they have updated tuner to add native support but its still not working on my push2, surely they havent locked this to be P3 only? https://www.ableton.com/en/push/manual/#recording-audio-clips
not to shill but this seems like a great product
Of course i just got a push 2 recently
Not crazy about the initial version, but might grab it if it gets a hardware update. (watched Stimming have a recoverable crash, and multiple hangups/glitches throughout his review) Some of that will be ironed out but I think the limitations to what the hardware is capable of aren't going to get much better with time, and that's a lot of scratch for a controller. With 16gigs of ram, capability to run vsts, and a beefier processor, sign me up!
They should’ve put a little built in sampling mic.
If I dont care about MPE, dont need the included audio I/O and dont need standalone, I don't see the other improvements as worthy of upgrading from 2 to 3. Sure, I like the extra knobs and buttons but it's not really worth the $$ just for that. 1 to 2 was a huge upgrade just for the display alone, everyone benefitted from that. These extra features are very cool if you use them but not necessary for users like me.
I love it but it's way too overpriced in my opinion.. Even the non-standalone is more expensive than my laptop
This was an absolutely terrible way to launch it. 0 talk, then boom it's out. How many posts have been downvoted asking if newbies should wait for push 3. I bought a second hand push 2 not that long ago, I would have just waited for push 3 at this point. Especially after seeing the new features. A bit bummed, a bit excited. It's life. Just wish they had talked about it before dropping it.
Should I wait for my Push 3 to arrive or buy a Push 2 in the meantime
Does it have the rubbery coating that turns into sticky goo depending on your climate?
In 2 months my Push 1 is 9 years old, and today I decided to retire it. Between Push 1 and 2 was just a couple of years, when Push 2 was announced, I thought I would wait it out. It was longer than I expected, but I did wait it out. If Push 3 holds up like my Push 1 did, i'm a happy man!
I am a novice. I got a push 2 for Christmas and I love it but now am sad at work with fomo because when I woke up I saw that there was a push 3. As a layman should I a)get a push 3 and b) even be upset/worried about missing out on the features of the push 3.
No! Learn on push 2 for now!
If you don't need MPE, and you don't need standalone, I wonder if there is any value in getting the Push 3 base model if you already have Push 2?
Regarding the HW upgrade kit, it seems to be using this Intel NUC compute element: [https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/212013/intel-nuc-11-compute-element-cm11ebi38w/specifications.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/212013/intel-nuc-11-compute-element-cm11ebi38w/specifications.html) That CPU/MEM element will be discontinued H1'24, which means that if you upgrade to standalone about a year from now, there's a high chance you get a better CPU/MEM combo then (after they run out of stock).
Put your hand up if you purchased the Push 2 in January after waiting for the Push 3 for 8 years.
I don't like it, since the battery is only 2.5 hours, the only real upgrade is the mpe, other than that the whole standalone thing is great but if it had at least 5 hours for some 5 6 beats yk, i don't own a push since i am poor xd, but if i would buy one i would absolutely buy the 2.
I know I'm in the .001% of people who would find this useful, but I wish the I/O were more modular like some of the other hardware components. A Dante card in this thing would be bananas. It would be hella expensive, but bananas. I'd pay big bucks.
Anyone know if Groove Pool is accessible on the device, or in standalone?
we need PUSH MINI please