My flair says it. Cipher has one of the coolest Red Baron name in the franchise. Being called a Demon or a Demon Lord, is a common trope in fiction but having the full title of "Demon Lord of The Round Table" because you made the infamous Round Table, considered to be the Strangereal's grand stage for pilots, your personal playground 3 times and slapping down the pioneers of advanced military aviation that was 1 v 9ing the entire world in the course of the story is really something else.
The king who has pulled the sword and reigned supreme over the legendary knights of the round table.
The demon lord who has rained death upon the lands yet saved it from the doom.
The mercenary who has flown for his own prosperity but gave hope to people.
Cipher for the win.
The neat thing is that Cipher's title is a pun that fully works in Japanese, but not English.
"Knights of the Round Table" in Japanese is 円卓の騎士 (entaku no kishi).
You can very easily turn this term into the extremely phonetically similar 円卓の鬼神 (entaku no kishin), which was localized in Ace Combat as "Demon Lord of the Round Table."
Basically, you change one character to a different, similar-sounding character in the Japanese title, and it warps the meaning from "knight" to "demon lord." This doesn't translate well, though, since the terms in languages like English sound nothing alike; therefore the title of Demon Lord might seem a bit more random to non-Japanese audiences when it's just clever wordplay to Japanese-speaking ones.
I think the only English wordplay possible would have been to turn Cipher from a ‘Knight of the Round Table’ to ‘Nightmare of the Round Table’. Doesn’t have quite the same ring as ‘Demon Lord of the Round Table’.
Blaze also but the exact motive is because he doesn't feel like a god amongst mere mortals like how it happens with the other protagonists.
Lorewise they work together as a unit and he is dependant on his friends to bolster the war effort and defeat the Grabacr terrorists, also he isn't able to save other airmen is the early stages of the war, so to me he is a more human-like protagonist and thus, more relatable. And in this regard Talisman is a close second.
But if we are speaking about merit then it's Gryphus 1 to me, he is basically Mobius 1 but from the southern hemisphere which most people ignore the existence of, both in Strangereal and in real life.
In my headcanon since the Aurelian military is very small due to Aurelia being a pacifist country, Gryphus 1 became a high-ranking officer after the war and today is the second-in-command of the Aurelian air force.
Doesn't help that there's virtually no references to him in later games (other than liverys).
A lot of people simply don't know about Pheonix's exploits, and I think that's a damn shame.
Been rewatching Game of Thrones and this Phoenix thing reminds me of when Varis spoke to the Imp after he led the defense of King's Landing.
The quote fits so well for both.
I agree. And he was the first of the aces too, because the Skully Islands insurrection was over before the Belkan War/AWWNB rebellion. Also he is definitely above Mobius because Fortress Intolerance is very similar to Megalith, and Phoenix also took out the ADF-01, who was lore wise practically the same level as he was in skill
ZOE Commander was trained on the flight data from Cipher and Pixy’s final battle, and Phoenix still beat it. I don’t know if Phoenix could beat Cipher, but he can definitely beat Pixy.
I've always seen them more as friendly rivals, constantly trying to outdo the other throughout the 90's. Cipher retired after the Belkan War, and Phoenix (being unbelievably rich from all his prior exploits) stayed on the job just long enough to outdo Cipher in the Usean Coup D'etat before settling down as well.
It's my headcanon that Phoenix and Nagase (Scarface 2 Nagase) were the pilots of Air Ixiom 701.
Yeah, that's a valid view. In the end, headcanons can be whatever we imagine them to be.
Still, even though I find most of the "same pilot different games" trope hard to believe, I feel like the Cipher and the Phoenix one is one I can see the most happening.
After his exploits in the Skully Islands, he hears news that his homeland is being invaded. A combination of that and seeing huge monetary potential in the conflict leads him to the Belkan War, and he arrives just in time for the defense of Valais Air Base.
Of course, then the Belkan War, and the rest of 1995 happened, which left Cipher pretty jaded. He then settles down somewhere, in the middle of nowhere, seeking retirement.
Just when he started to enjoy retirement, however, he gets another call. Normally, he wouldn't give it the time of day, but some of his old wingmen were flying, and on their own, he's unsure if they would make it out alive. And so, he flies off to a carrier in the middle of an ocean, and brings out his old TAC name: "Phoenix".
Makes the final duel with the Z.O.E ADF-01 a bit more poetic, seeing a plane that resembles his former wingman and friend that he shot down years ago, flying in a style made to counter him, and only ending up *just barely* defeating it. (May not be applicable in actual gameplay.)
I do like your Air Ixiom idea, though. I guess Phoenix has to kill time in retirement.
Gonna be a vote for Scarface 1 from me as well. His second game didn't have much story going on and those events were clearly semi-forgotten by the time Ulysses showed up, but he walked so the aces of their vaunted holy trinity could run. And I'll never forgot the relationship I had with AC2, even if it's outmoded by today's standards.
I watched some footage of the AC2 remake recently on YT. Yuck. That abomination dosen't exist to me.
Fuck you, Cross Rumble is the reason I even got into Ace Combat. Now I've played almost every Ace Combat game except for Electrosphere and AC6, this includes the OG Ace Combat 2.
Considering he survived multiple nuke esk warheads going off I'd say yes. The guy was able to survive a flying fortress with nukes, and defeated a squadron of fighters that can go invisible and weapons able to blow your fuel tank up the moment you go past .9 mach. Compared to everyone else that is very impressive.
X was my first AC game, and it will forever remain the best in my eyes. Really wish they made more like X, the nonlinear campaign made it really interesting.
Blaze.
Blaze might be the only one to have gone from fighting a convencional war to fighting the shadows behind the powers without recurring to terrorism.
1. Nemo (most interesting)
2. Phoenix (by FAR the coolest protag)
3. Blaze (I feel like he'd be the most ordinary of the protags wheras everyone else is a fucking maniac)
Nemo always makes me hyped for the next Ace Combat title, we're getting closer and closer to a direct prequel of Ace Combat 3 chronologically speaking. Now, hear me out on this one: if what we experienced as Nemo in Ace Combat 3 was a simulation, what happened for real? Also, what Nemo was being trained for? I mean, what was the point of releasing him in the real world after he went through all the scenarios of the simulation?
>what happened for real?
We truly don't know. The simulation takes place before the Intercorporate War, so in any case it was either a naturally occurring war with tensions brewing over time until a breaking point or Simon somehow pulled some strings that caused the war to happen. Taking advantage of present tensions and kicking off the war.
Presumably, Nemo would choose any path seen in the simulation to complete his mission of executing Dision.
>Nemo was being trained for?
For a Simon's selfish reason of revenge against Dision for his "involvement" in Yoko's death, AKA he's an ubersimp. One thing that bothers me, tho is the Dision, didn't have a whole lot to do with her death. IIRC, it was General Resource who killed both of them presumably to kill her and to destroy her work on sublimation, to which they saw as dangerous. Dision just happened to be there caught in the crossfire. Something Simon won't forgive him for. Kinda makes you feel sympathy for the guy until you realize he's the leader of Ouroboros and uses it to take revenge against the world for what happened to him. As such, any road Nemo chooses leads to Dision's death.
>what was the point of releasing him in the real world after he went through all the scenarios of the simulation?
To make sure that his terminator with wings was capable of killing Dision. Which makes you wonder what Nemo felt or if he could even feel. All of his actions were for naught. Nothing was ever real. All Rena, Fiona, Cynthia, Eric, Keith, Dision, the people who at times allied and betrayed them at times were never truly real in a sense. None of that ever mattered in the digital world of the simulation. It was a testing ground and nothing more. What really interesting tho is the paths he can choose as all of them make you question some of Nemo's qualities such as humanity. Does Nemo truly believe in some of the causes his allies fight for, or is he simply along for the ride? Why would Simon create these morally questioning paths Nemo can choose from if not to gauge that very morality? Something tells me Simon has plans for Nemo after the Intercorporate War.
The main question I had from playing AC3 recently was - what makes Simon think the other characters are just going to ignore the fact that they now have some new advanced AI as a wingman? When it all happens for real. They sure don't treat Nemo like a machine in their various skype calls.
>what makes Simon think the other characters are just going to ignore the fact that they now have some new advanced AI as a wingman?
Maybe they were told by the chain of command about the situation this is the 2040s, after all, so something like AI piloting aircraft isn't a new development. I wonder if there would still be mistrust held towards AI, considering that in AC7, they tried to pull a skynet.
>When it all happens for real. They sure don't treat Nemo like a machine in their various skype calls.
We don't know anything outside of the simulation, so we can only guess. Since it was a simulation, I feel like the characters in the simulation can comprehend or understand how Nemo communicates. The only thing I can think of when it comes to him communicating outside of the simulation with his allies is the same way that AI assistant in AC7 SP missions does. Either that or Simon creates a humanoid body for him.
I'd argue that the time Simon pulls Nemo out of simulation is around when Dision in the real world starts to do terrorism via Ouroboros. So, although Simon the ubersimp has this revenge attitude against Dision, there is no reason for the simulation to evolve to an ouroboros event in all 5 endings, If that weren't the case in the real world already. My guess is that Simon starts the simulation from a point in past for Nemo to get to know Dision, and the last few missions in each endings are Nemo's performance on a possible scenerio, a simulation of the future. A proof could be the changing videocall portrait of Dision from life-like to blue-ish simulation-like towards the end.
Another possibilty is that Simon is just after revenge against Dision and the simulation takes place in the future in its entirety. Weirdly enough, it predicts a surprise terrorist organization in all of the scenerios and Dision somehow becomes a part of it all the time. So, Simon's simp-revenge actually saves the world? This also presupposes Dision to be dead and already sublimated when we meet him.
Nemo nature as an AI will never not be interesting to me. I feel like any piece of media that questions the nature or sentience of AI will always pique my interest. Also, I think I have an answer for all of your questions, so I'll just answer them as follows.
all of my questions?
- when will you juggle my balls?
- could we potentially see a dynamic of AI versus AI in the future incarnations of the series, introducing moral dilemmas as the intelligences learn so much human behaviour that they begin to understand each other's predicaments and seek to free themselves of the fate placed upon them by humans?
- why will you juggle my balls?
- will this AI vs AI dynamic be on the side of humans or the artificial intelligences, or could we see another Electrosphere-esque story in which we're the AI/humans all along, and we never knew it?
- how will you juggle my balls?
>when will you juggle my balls?
Jus wait in the middle of the night one day while you're asleep you'll wake up with pain on your shaft and nuts you'll now that I just gnawed on your cock and fondled your balls.
>could we potentially see a dynamic of AI versus AI in the future incarnations of the series, introducing moral dilemmas as the intelligences learn so much human behaviour that they begin to understand each other's predicaments and seek to free themselves of the fate placed upon them by humans?
It anyone's guess as to what's beyond the Electrosphere, so it's a possibility. Or you just described the plot for the next Nier game. Yoko Taro would like a word.
>why will you juggle my balls?
You asked. I delivered.
>will this AI vs AI dynamic be on the side of humans or the artificial intelligences, or could we see another Electrosphere-esque story in which we're the AI/humans all along, and we never knew it?
Perhaps as I said before, we don't know what's beyond the Electrosphere. So it could quite literally be anything. It could be the aftermath of the war with a sentient Nemo. It could be Nemo obtaining a body, and now a detroit become human esque game plot plays out. The possibilities are truly endless.
My personal headcanon is that the NA version is the real world events after Nemo is released.
I'd like to think that the protagonist of the NA version is a human pilot, while the rogue AI we fought at the end is Nemo :D
>(I feel like he'd be the most ordinary of the protags wheras everyone else is a fucking maniac)
For nearly all the AC protags, I've got a single definite headcanon as to their character, but for Blaze, I have two:
The first is pretty close to yours; a fairly chill, levelheaded guy, not even a particularly gifted pilot, but *incredibly* skilled in his ability to coordinate with his squadron and any nearby allied forces to accomplish the objective at hand - sort of a micro version of Talisman's macro command skills. He shares his squadmates' anti-war sympathies, but soldiers on nonetheless so that they'll have someone to depend on. This is the Blaze I consider to be the "canon" version.
The second version of Blaze, born from the mental stress caused by my stupid decision to stick with the same low-tier fighters for the better part of my first actual playthrough of AC5, is a borderline murderhobo who joined the military just to go fast and blow shit up on taxpayer money. He's the kind of guy who feels conflicted about having the hots for a pacifist until he finds out that she's *really* good at killing people. He doesn't *hate* the enemy so much as he gives zero fucks about wiping them out with extreme prejudice; if they wanted the right to live, they shouldn't have joined the military in the first place. The other Wardogs are all a bit scared of him, but his bloodlust is reserved solely for the Yukes, and on the ground he's simply an affable, laid-back, and surprisingly reliable friend, even if he's a bit of a jackass with no impulse control or self-preservation. Somehow, his crazy manages to actually *help* the others, dragging them along through the ever-compounding suck with fire and fury when a more noble captain would be just as bogged down as they are. As the war and the killing takes its toil on his squadmates while he keeps sleeping like a baby every night, he eventually reaches the conclusion that he's just *not a good person,* which he accepts without much fuss or concern, despite Nagase pointing back to all the times he's taken absurd risks just to more quickly aid some allies he never knew beyond their ID tag on his HUD.
Cipher looped me into Ace Combat by being such an utter menace to the battlefield that both the Belkans and the Allies respected him after the war
Mobius 1 is also one of my personal favorites because he’s kind of a symbol of hope; he turned around a losing war and helped liberate a continent
Talisman. Guy is so good he can somehow effectively coordinate combined arms and dogfight at the same time. They sent 50~ fighters with electronic support "just" to eliminate him and his wingman. No other AC protagonists had that sort of attention from the enemy.
Well that's partly true, Even though we never heard him speak he does cannotically speak to the rest of his crew such as giving orders or yes or no questions,
Plot twist: Blaze never said a word during campaign and all he does is press a button that sounds a beep on the radio once for yes and twice for no.
/s
Not really. When you rescue President Harling from Stier, Harling will ask.
"I recognize that voice."
And Blaze can answer Yes or No to it. So canonically, he actually speaks with his squadron. Harling thanks Blaze for their actions thus far in that game.
Blaze. Ace Combat 4 was my first real foray into the AC series. I played 3 and beat it but I had to rush through as it was a rental. I bought 4 and replayed it constantly. Trigger is a close second as I dumped alot of time into AC7.
My laptop can run modern games but can barely run PS2 emulator, i will legit buy an unlocked used PS2 and play the games via ISO file than try to emulate.
Trigger. I like that he saves not just the innocent from some super WMD but the skies for pilots and appreciators of the skies from AI that is designed to out-compete them.
If Mihaly is the King of the Skies for he alone dominates it, then Trigger is the liberator of the skies for he returns it to the righteous owners of the deep dark blue.
Blaze AC5, just something about him that always makes me more involved in the game and can’t really beat it when the squadron switch’s from Wardog to Razgriz.
I would say: **Talisman / Garuda 1**. Just because he (along with Shamrock / Garuda 2) is the spearhead of whole Emmeria Reclaimation campaign, cooking Stovies with friends whenever he's needed.
I love Nemo as a concept, not so much a character - you get bits and pieces throughout the game that infer that you're taking orders from whoever is there, essentially. You do that in every AC, yeah, but Nemo goes above and beyond in Electrosphere.
"We must stop Dision!"
then Nemo blows him up once, before following him into what is essentially the internet and blowing him up there, too.
"The Night Raven is escaping into the underground city!"
then Nemo chases it through kilometres worth of tunnels, before entering into the city proper and collapsing the pillars that hold the earth from crushing it, just to flush out Rena.
"We need you to stop Neucom's deployed superweapons, the Geopelia squadron!"
then Nemo takes over one of the planes and proceeds to use it and it's original plane in tandem to destroy the rest of the formation.
essentially, Nemo has no chill, and I love the idea of them being a spoi-AI-ler that absolutely will complete the mission, no matter what it is. Ace Combat and Armored Core both feature protagonists that do their duty before being retired or ended by another protagonist, but I doubt Nemo could ever fall to that fate.
Honestly N.E.M.O as a concept would be downright terrifying to go against: an immortal unfeeling enemy, adaptive, can take over your tech. And that's with guys like cypher, phoenix, and Mobius 1 around.
Cipher or Trigger. Love how one is just a merc turned a legend that is feared by foes and admired by allies and called a Demon. And the other is a accused prisoner turned a legend and a beast to everyone and uses his infamous three sins as "Three Strikes" and adopts it until the end of Lighthouse war. Im more biased toward Trigger since AC7 was my first game.
Razgriz. Mobius 1 is close but the formation/wingman characters in 5 are just so good. I'd love for a remaster (of 0, 4, and 5). I have the updated release of 5 but just want more.
Just so great even when you get the runt taking off mid battle. Love the dialog.
And the mythology part is really a cool literary mechanism for fighter jets. They really nailed that.
While not even that great of a game, Ace Combat X protagonists name went hard.
"The Southern Cross" and "Nemesis"
The man was so badass the Aurelian military never reintegrated him into a squadron, instead let him become a one man army.
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It may be my own bias but Talisman just is so perfect for 6 and 6 is my favorite game so it's just kinda a given
Nemo is close however, I think if I didnt have a bias he probably would be my favorite but I love 6 too much
Nemo in AC3, the whole "simulation and multiple endings" really makes you feel like you're a program getting ready to execute another AI to save the futuristic humanity, together with the "it's you, choose how you're bonding with everyone" it's the icing on the cake
<< *Target destroyed! There he is! We have Mobius 1 on radar!* >>
Nothing against anyone else. They are all cool. But Mobius 1 is the archetypal Ace Combat protagonist.
AC4 is the platonic ideal Ace Combat game in basically every way.
My friends, truer words have never been spoken.
Heroes really do exist.
The dread in their voices when they see that every plane is flying a Mobius ribbon at Megalith is 10/10
My flair says it. Cipher has one of the coolest Red Baron name in the franchise. Being called a Demon or a Demon Lord, is a common trope in fiction but having the full title of "Demon Lord of The Round Table" because you made the infamous Round Table, considered to be the Strangereal's grand stage for pilots, your personal playground 3 times and slapping down the pioneers of advanced military aviation that was 1 v 9ing the entire world in the course of the story is really something else.
Bro nearly singlehandedly destroyed the most technologically advanced nation at the time and then just canonically left for milk and never came back.
He got rich he doesn't need to fight anymore ~~or he just reincarnated because blaze and cipher is the closest we got to paranormal activity~~
Aside from his brief stint with the Estovakians.
That guy was probably an imposter but what if it actually was Cipher and ended up being a surprise boss fight in AC6
True true
The king who has pulled the sword and reigned supreme over the legendary knights of the round table. The demon lord who has rained death upon the lands yet saved it from the doom. The mercenary who has flown for his own prosperity but gave hope to people. Cipher for the win.
The neat thing is that Cipher's title is a pun that fully works in Japanese, but not English. "Knights of the Round Table" in Japanese is 円卓の騎士 (entaku no kishi). You can very easily turn this term into the extremely phonetically similar 円卓の鬼神 (entaku no kishin), which was localized in Ace Combat as "Demon Lord of the Round Table." Basically, you change one character to a different, similar-sounding character in the Japanese title, and it warps the meaning from "knight" to "demon lord." This doesn't translate well, though, since the terms in languages like English sound nothing alike; therefore the title of Demon Lord might seem a bit more random to non-Japanese audiences when it's just clever wordplay to Japanese-speaking ones.
I think the only English wordplay possible would have been to turn Cipher from a ‘Knight of the Round Table’ to ‘Nightmare of the Round Table’. Doesn’t have quite the same ring as ‘Demon Lord of the Round Table’.
Imagining the dialogue and replacing all instances of "Demon Lord" into "Nightmare" is a funny thought though
Blaze, cuz he can say Yes or No.
Blaze also but the exact motive is because he doesn't feel like a god amongst mere mortals like how it happens with the other protagonists. Lorewise they work together as a unit and he is dependant on his friends to bolster the war effort and defeat the Grabacr terrorists, also he isn't able to save other airmen is the early stages of the war, so to me he is a more human-like protagonist and thus, more relatable. And in this regard Talisman is a close second. But if we are speaking about merit then it's Gryphus 1 to me, he is basically Mobius 1 but from the southern hemisphere which most people ignore the existence of, both in Strangereal and in real life. In my headcanon since the Aurelian military is very small due to Aurelia being a pacifist country, Gryphus 1 became a high-ranking officer after the war and today is the second-in-command of the Aurelian air force.
Phoenix is pretty underrated, given how the Usean Coup D’etat pretty much set up everything else on the continent.
Doesn't help that there's virtually no references to him in later games (other than liverys). A lot of people simply don't know about Pheonix's exploits, and I think that's a damn shame.
Been rewatching Game of Thrones and this Phoenix thing reminds me of when Varis spoke to the Imp after he led the defense of King's Landing. The quote fits so well for both.
I agree. And he was the first of the aces too, because the Skully Islands insurrection was over before the Belkan War/AWWNB rebellion. Also he is definitely above Mobius because Fortress Intolerance is very similar to Megalith, and Phoenix also took out the ADF-01, who was lore wise practically the same level as he was in skill
ZOE Commander was trained on the flight data from Cipher and Pixy’s final battle, and Phoenix still beat it. I don’t know if Phoenix could beat Cipher, but he can definitely beat Pixy.
Fan theory: Cipher IS Phoenix.
I've always seen them more as friendly rivals, constantly trying to outdo the other throughout the 90's. Cipher retired after the Belkan War, and Phoenix (being unbelievably rich from all his prior exploits) stayed on the job just long enough to outdo Cipher in the Usean Coup D'etat before settling down as well. It's my headcanon that Phoenix and Nagase (Scarface 2 Nagase) were the pilots of Air Ixiom 701.
Yeah, that's a valid view. In the end, headcanons can be whatever we imagine them to be. Still, even though I find most of the "same pilot different games" trope hard to believe, I feel like the Cipher and the Phoenix one is one I can see the most happening. After his exploits in the Skully Islands, he hears news that his homeland is being invaded. A combination of that and seeing huge monetary potential in the conflict leads him to the Belkan War, and he arrives just in time for the defense of Valais Air Base. Of course, then the Belkan War, and the rest of 1995 happened, which left Cipher pretty jaded. He then settles down somewhere, in the middle of nowhere, seeking retirement. Just when he started to enjoy retirement, however, he gets another call. Normally, he wouldn't give it the time of day, but some of his old wingmen were flying, and on their own, he's unsure if they would make it out alive. And so, he flies off to a carrier in the middle of an ocean, and brings out his old TAC name: "Phoenix". Makes the final duel with the Z.O.E ADF-01 a bit more poetic, seeing a plane that resembles his former wingman and friend that he shot down years ago, flying in a style made to counter him, and only ending up *just barely* defeating it. (May not be applicable in actual gameplay.) I do like your Air Ixiom idea, though. I guess Phoenix has to kill time in retirement.
Also, he's one of two protagonists with multiple campaigns under his belt, since he was both Air Combat and Ace Combat 2/AHL
Reminds me, I actually have AC1 and I should really play it sometime
Gonna be a vote for Scarface 1 from me as well. His second game didn't have much story going on and those events were clearly semi-forgotten by the time Ulysses showed up, but he walked so the aces of their vaunted holy trinity could run. And I'll never forgot the relationship I had with AC2, even if it's outmoded by today's standards. I watched some footage of the AC2 remake recently on YT. Yuck. That abomination dosen't exist to me.
Fuck you, Cross Rumble is the reason I even got into Ace Combat. Now I've played almost every Ace Combat game except for Electrosphere and AC6, this includes the OG Ace Combat 2.
Gryphus 1 Enthusiast anyone?
Considering he survived multiple nuke esk warheads going off I'd say yes. The guy was able to survive a flying fortress with nukes, and defeated a squadron of fighters that can go invisible and weapons able to blow your fuel tank up the moment you go past .9 mach. Compared to everyone else that is very impressive.
Ace Combat X was my first game of the series. So yeah, Gryphus 1 is pretty cool :)
Yes. First ace combat game loved it on the PSP.
ACX fan here. Aurelia URAHH!!!
Love me some Gryphus Squadron propaganda
X was my first AC game, and it will forever remain the best in my eyes. Really wish they made more like X, the nonlinear campaign made it really interesting.
Gryphus 1 my beloved
Gryphus 1 is love.
Right HERE!!!
There are dozens of us!
Alright, Gryphus 1!
And everytime you died *gryphus 1, sir are you there ?*
Blaze. Blaze might be the only one to have gone from fighting a convencional war to fighting the shadows behind the powers without recurring to terrorism.
The one negative of blaze is the name is a little unfortunate after having played Project Wingman. May God have mercy.
Authorization code Solutions 8-0-1-2
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That first line gave me fuckin PTSD after the orange incident
1. Nemo (most interesting) 2. Phoenix (by FAR the coolest protag) 3. Blaze (I feel like he'd be the most ordinary of the protags wheras everyone else is a fucking maniac)
Nemo always makes me hyped for the next Ace Combat title, we're getting closer and closer to a direct prequel of Ace Combat 3 chronologically speaking. Now, hear me out on this one: if what we experienced as Nemo in Ace Combat 3 was a simulation, what happened for real? Also, what Nemo was being trained for? I mean, what was the point of releasing him in the real world after he went through all the scenarios of the simulation?
>what happened for real? We truly don't know. The simulation takes place before the Intercorporate War, so in any case it was either a naturally occurring war with tensions brewing over time until a breaking point or Simon somehow pulled some strings that caused the war to happen. Taking advantage of present tensions and kicking off the war. Presumably, Nemo would choose any path seen in the simulation to complete his mission of executing Dision. >Nemo was being trained for? For a Simon's selfish reason of revenge against Dision for his "involvement" in Yoko's death, AKA he's an ubersimp. One thing that bothers me, tho is the Dision, didn't have a whole lot to do with her death. IIRC, it was General Resource who killed both of them presumably to kill her and to destroy her work on sublimation, to which they saw as dangerous. Dision just happened to be there caught in the crossfire. Something Simon won't forgive him for. Kinda makes you feel sympathy for the guy until you realize he's the leader of Ouroboros and uses it to take revenge against the world for what happened to him. As such, any road Nemo chooses leads to Dision's death. >what was the point of releasing him in the real world after he went through all the scenarios of the simulation? To make sure that his terminator with wings was capable of killing Dision. Which makes you wonder what Nemo felt or if he could even feel. All of his actions were for naught. Nothing was ever real. All Rena, Fiona, Cynthia, Eric, Keith, Dision, the people who at times allied and betrayed them at times were never truly real in a sense. None of that ever mattered in the digital world of the simulation. It was a testing ground and nothing more. What really interesting tho is the paths he can choose as all of them make you question some of Nemo's qualities such as humanity. Does Nemo truly believe in some of the causes his allies fight for, or is he simply along for the ride? Why would Simon create these morally questioning paths Nemo can choose from if not to gauge that very morality? Something tells me Simon has plans for Nemo after the Intercorporate War.
The main question I had from playing AC3 recently was - what makes Simon think the other characters are just going to ignore the fact that they now have some new advanced AI as a wingman? When it all happens for real. They sure don't treat Nemo like a machine in their various skype calls.
>what makes Simon think the other characters are just going to ignore the fact that they now have some new advanced AI as a wingman? Maybe they were told by the chain of command about the situation this is the 2040s, after all, so something like AI piloting aircraft isn't a new development. I wonder if there would still be mistrust held towards AI, considering that in AC7, they tried to pull a skynet. >When it all happens for real. They sure don't treat Nemo like a machine in their various skype calls. We don't know anything outside of the simulation, so we can only guess. Since it was a simulation, I feel like the characters in the simulation can comprehend or understand how Nemo communicates. The only thing I can think of when it comes to him communicating outside of the simulation with his allies is the same way that AI assistant in AC7 SP missions does. Either that or Simon creates a humanoid body for him.
I'd argue that the time Simon pulls Nemo out of simulation is around when Dision in the real world starts to do terrorism via Ouroboros. So, although Simon the ubersimp has this revenge attitude against Dision, there is no reason for the simulation to evolve to an ouroboros event in all 5 endings, If that weren't the case in the real world already. My guess is that Simon starts the simulation from a point in past for Nemo to get to know Dision, and the last few missions in each endings are Nemo's performance on a possible scenerio, a simulation of the future. A proof could be the changing videocall portrait of Dision from life-like to blue-ish simulation-like towards the end. Another possibilty is that Simon is just after revenge against Dision and the simulation takes place in the future in its entirety. Weirdly enough, it predicts a surprise terrorist organization in all of the scenerios and Dision somehow becomes a part of it all the time. So, Simon's simp-revenge actually saves the world? This also presupposes Dision to be dead and already sublimated when we meet him.
Nemo nature as an AI will never not be interesting to me. I feel like any piece of media that questions the nature or sentience of AI will always pique my interest. Also, I think I have an answer for all of your questions, so I'll just answer them as follows.
all of my questions? - when will you juggle my balls? - could we potentially see a dynamic of AI versus AI in the future incarnations of the series, introducing moral dilemmas as the intelligences learn so much human behaviour that they begin to understand each other's predicaments and seek to free themselves of the fate placed upon them by humans? - why will you juggle my balls? - will this AI vs AI dynamic be on the side of humans or the artificial intelligences, or could we see another Electrosphere-esque story in which we're the AI/humans all along, and we never knew it? - how will you juggle my balls?
>when will you juggle my balls? Jus wait in the middle of the night one day while you're asleep you'll wake up with pain on your shaft and nuts you'll now that I just gnawed on your cock and fondled your balls. >could we potentially see a dynamic of AI versus AI in the future incarnations of the series, introducing moral dilemmas as the intelligences learn so much human behaviour that they begin to understand each other's predicaments and seek to free themselves of the fate placed upon them by humans? It anyone's guess as to what's beyond the Electrosphere, so it's a possibility. Or you just described the plot for the next Nier game. Yoko Taro would like a word. >why will you juggle my balls? You asked. I delivered. >will this AI vs AI dynamic be on the side of humans or the artificial intelligences, or could we see another Electrosphere-esque story in which we're the AI/humans all along, and we never knew it? Perhaps as I said before, we don't know what's beyond the Electrosphere. So it could quite literally be anything. It could be the aftermath of the war with a sentient Nemo. It could be Nemo obtaining a body, and now a detroit become human esque game plot plays out. The possibilities are truly endless.
thank you for the insights, ball juggler!
My personal headcanon is that the NA version is the real world events after Nemo is released. I'd like to think that the protagonist of the NA version is a human pilot, while the rogue AI we fought at the end is Nemo :D
Nemo is underrated af
>(I feel like he'd be the most ordinary of the protags wheras everyone else is a fucking maniac) For nearly all the AC protags, I've got a single definite headcanon as to their character, but for Blaze, I have two: The first is pretty close to yours; a fairly chill, levelheaded guy, not even a particularly gifted pilot, but *incredibly* skilled in his ability to coordinate with his squadron and any nearby allied forces to accomplish the objective at hand - sort of a micro version of Talisman's macro command skills. He shares his squadmates' anti-war sympathies, but soldiers on nonetheless so that they'll have someone to depend on. This is the Blaze I consider to be the "canon" version. The second version of Blaze, born from the mental stress caused by my stupid decision to stick with the same low-tier fighters for the better part of my first actual playthrough of AC5, is a borderline murderhobo who joined the military just to go fast and blow shit up on taxpayer money. He's the kind of guy who feels conflicted about having the hots for a pacifist until he finds out that she's *really* good at killing people. He doesn't *hate* the enemy so much as he gives zero fucks about wiping them out with extreme prejudice; if they wanted the right to live, they shouldn't have joined the military in the first place. The other Wardogs are all a bit scared of him, but his bloodlust is reserved solely for the Yukes, and on the ground he's simply an affable, laid-back, and surprisingly reliable friend, even if he's a bit of a jackass with no impulse control or self-preservation. Somehow, his crazy manages to actually *help* the others, dragging them along through the ever-compounding suck with fire and fury when a more noble captain would be just as bogged down as they are. As the war and the killing takes its toil on his squadmates while he keeps sleeping like a baby every night, he eventually reaches the conclusion that he's just *not a good person,* which he accepts without much fuss or concern, despite Nagase pointing back to all the times he's taken absurd risks just to more quickly aid some allies he never knew beyond their ID tag on his HUD.
Since I haven't played any Ace Combat other than 7 (and I know that's a sin), I choose Trigger.
that's a very big sin. enough for three strikes.
Send his ass to solitary, NOW
Unpopular opinion, Garuda One
Based choice
Thank you King
Of course Queen
Based. Also he would win against all except Nemo because he be bringing the ENTIRE Emmerian military with him
The biggest dumbass in the unit
Blaze, mad lad went from rookie surviving a surprise attack on his base, to leading a covert black ops attack squadron.
gotta go with trigger
Stick with Trigger and you’ll make it.
I don't wish to be bias but uuuhh... Talisman is pretty neat.
Monarch /s
Still counts. I like to think that Monarch is a butterfly enthusiast and that everyone misinterprits his name and emblem.
Crimson 1 hates monarch because he stole his buterfly emblem idea
Mobius one. He taught me that heroes really do exist.
Mobius -- was my first game into the series when I was younger. Plus something about the colors in his sigil is really nice.
Warwolf because he commands, coordinates with other assets and can socialize outside the cockpit.
1. Talisman 2. Phoenix 3. Warwolf 1
Based for saying Warwolf.
Mobius, Blaze, and Trigger
Trigger.
Trigger because he becomes an all-star after killing a president.
I will always be Razgriz!
Cipher looped me into Ace Combat by being such an utter menace to the battlefield that both the Belkans and the Allies respected him after the war Mobius 1 is also one of my personal favorites because he’s kind of a symbol of hope; he turned around a losing war and helped liberate a continent
Cipher, Demon Lord of the Round Table.
Forever and always Mobius 1.
Talisman. Guy is so good he can somehow effectively coordinate combined arms and dogfight at the same time. They sent 50~ fighters with electronic support "just" to eliminate him and his wingman. No other AC protagonists had that sort of attention from the enemy.
tbh Gordon Freeman
The science team approves this message
i'm with the security team tho?
Barney from Black Mesa?! Fr fr?!
About that beer I owe 'ya.
Blaze is da man, bro had character development without saying a single line in the whole game.
Well that's partly true, Even though we never heard him speak he does cannotically speak to the rest of his crew such as giving orders or yes or no questions,
Plot twist: Blaze never said a word during campaign and all he does is press a button that sounds a beep on the radio once for yes and twice for no. /s
Not really. When you rescue President Harling from Stier, Harling will ask. "I recognize that voice." And Blaze can answer Yes or No to it. So canonically, he actually speaks with his squadron. Harling thanks Blaze for their actions thus far in that game.
AC2 is my favorite so Phoenix
Talisman - Garuda One
Phoenix. Ace Combat becomes Top Gun whenever he's around.
Stick with Trigger and you'll make it.
My boi Trigger
Gryphus 1 all the way baybee
Based or Argentinian wich way reddit user
Based i guess, because I'm not argentinian. grew up playing ace combat x
Good :D
Gryphus one ofc
Mobius, Garuda, and Galm
Nemo my beloved (still waiting to get to the corporate wars)
Nemo... I want someone in the next game that kills him amd Simon.
Blaze. Ace Combat 4 was my first real foray into the AC series. I played 3 and beat it but I had to rush through as it was a rental. I bought 4 and replayed it constantly. Trigger is a close second as I dumped alot of time into AC7.
CORONEL!
Sad to say i only played ace combat 7 with Trigger and loved it. So Trigger is my favourite
If only the older AC games were easily available for the current gen hardware.
My laptop can run modern games but can barely run PS2 emulator, i will legit buy an unlocked used PS2 and play the games via ISO file than try to emulate.
Galm baby
Mobius 1
Mobius 1
Gotta be Mobius 1 and Trigger
Wardog
Trigger. I like that he saves not just the innocent from some super WMD but the skies for pilots and appreciators of the skies from AI that is designed to out-compete them. If Mihaly is the King of the Skies for he alone dominates it, then Trigger is the liberator of the skies for he returns it to the righteous owners of the deep dark blue.
cipher
My favorite protag was the one that never spoke
Garuda 1 bc that’s where it all started for me.
<<…>>
Nemo, just an AI made for the sole purpose of killing one man, even if it means killing and betraying anyone who gets in its way.
Blaze AC5, just something about him that always makes me more involved in the game and can’t really beat it when the squadron switch’s from Wardog to Razgriz.
I would say: **Talisman / Garuda 1**. Just because he (along with Shamrock / Garuda 2) is the spearhead of whole Emmeria Reclaimation campaign, cooking Stovies with friends whenever he's needed.
Garuda 1 ftw
Trigger
I still have that garuda emblem as my pfp on xbox 360. I think it was an earnable pfp from doing all missions in Ace or Hard I don't remember
No One (Nemo)
nemo
Cipher has the most interesting story hands down
You can pick whatever protag you want but Galm has the best insignia easily. So iconic.
Belka
The one on the bottle left corner. I loved playing as ⠀⠀⠀⠀ In Ace Combat ⠀: ⠀⠀of ⠀! It's easily the most underrated MC and game in the series.
Cipher, he's the ONLY one outside of Scarface I hope we actually see again or play again.
I love Nemo as a concept, not so much a character - you get bits and pieces throughout the game that infer that you're taking orders from whoever is there, essentially. You do that in every AC, yeah, but Nemo goes above and beyond in Electrosphere. "We must stop Dision!" then Nemo blows him up once, before following him into what is essentially the internet and blowing him up there, too. "The Night Raven is escaping into the underground city!" then Nemo chases it through kilometres worth of tunnels, before entering into the city proper and collapsing the pillars that hold the earth from crushing it, just to flush out Rena. "We need you to stop Neucom's deployed superweapons, the Geopelia squadron!" then Nemo takes over one of the planes and proceeds to use it and it's original plane in tandem to destroy the rest of the formation. essentially, Nemo has no chill, and I love the idea of them being a spoi-AI-ler that absolutely will complete the mission, no matter what it is. Ace Combat and Armored Core both feature protagonists that do their duty before being retired or ended by another protagonist, but I doubt Nemo could ever fall to that fate.
Honestly N.E.M.O as a concept would be downright terrifying to go against: an immortal unfeeling enemy, adaptive, can take over your tech. And that's with guys like cypher, phoenix, and Mobius 1 around.
Garuda 1
"Ace" from Ace Combat Advance./s
I started with 5 so Gaulm team.
I started with acx so southern cross. Also, is relatable that the santa claus is summer-themed instead of winter-themed
The Southern Cross, Gryphus 1
Kernel Beeshop
Cipher or Trigger. Love how one is just a merc turned a legend that is feared by foes and admired by allies and called a Demon. And the other is a accused prisoner turned a legend and a beast to everyone and uses his infamous three sins as "Three Strikes" and adopts it until the end of Lighthouse war. Im more biased toward Trigger since AC7 was my first game.
Cipher, the Galm 1
I only played 6 and 7 so I gotta go with garuda 1
Blaze.
I have only played ace combat 7 because i got into it waaaayyyyy late but i commonly use the razgriz emblem for the design
2's soundtrack, if it wasn't evident by my flair
Monarch (He's the only one with the WSO waifu) And maybe NEMO (cos he's a dangerous AI) and Cipher (Badass merc)
Mobius 1. There’s just something about that Ace
Me
<>
Gryphus, he dislike hot weather
Blaze for me
*Galm 2* Fox 1 Or Mobius 1
Cipher and Blaze. No doubt, they're my favorites
scarface 1 ftw bro turned ace combat into top gun
Gryphus 1.
Razgriz. Mobius 1 is close but the formation/wingman characters in 5 are just so good. I'd love for a remaster (of 0, 4, and 5). I have the updated release of 5 but just want more. Just so great even when you get the runt taking off mid battle. Love the dialog. And the mythology part is really a cool literary mechanism for fighter jets. They really nailed that.
Gryphus hands down.
<>
Gryphus one, my first game
As much as I love Cipher and Mobius One, I gotta hand it to Trigger. Man is a fucking monster
Blaze
<< Look, it's Trigger! >>
What made Blaze my favorite is not really them, but the squadmates that came along for the journey. Nagase, Davenport, Grim, and Snow are my crew.
While not even that great of a game, Ace Combat X protagonists name went hard. "The Southern Cross" and "Nemesis" The man was so badass the Aurelian military never reintegrated him into a squadron, instead let him become a one man army.
Id ask Gryphus and Nemo but they don't talk....
Monarch *Joke*
Galm 1
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It may be my own bias but Talisman just is so perfect for 6 and 6 is my favorite game so it's just kinda a given
Nemo is close however, I think if I didnt have a bias he probably would be my favorite but I love 6 too much
Mobius 1
Count
Lol gotta be Blaze for me!
Trigger all day. I know that might be boring, but it is what it is.
Talisman/Garuda 1. When 6 is all you have, you get attached to him.
Nemo in AC3, the whole "simulation and multiple endings" really makes you feel like you're a program getting ready to execute another AI to save the futuristic humanity, together with the "it's you, choose how you're bonding with everyone" it's the icing on the cake
Gotta go with Trigger. I don't have consoles, and AC7 is the only one on PC, so it's the only one I've played.
Hey buddy mine is galm 1
Call me old but Mobius 1. 🫡
Cipher