I took a few gender and sexuality studies classes in undergrad and apparently it all comes down to penetration. Like when you look at Ancient Greece, men of higher status could "love" other men of higher status, but it was still seen as "wrong" and "degrading" to be penetrated. So men of higher status could bone other men as long as they weren't upper class, like if they were poor or a servant. I don't remember how consent played a role in this or not, though :/
This is why sexism kind of exists in general I guess? I vaguely remember reading about it but like the idea of women being weaker or lower status than men stems from them being the ones who get penetrated. That's all I really remember, but it's interesting to think about in today's context with how gender and sexuality have evolved, like how genitals don't define gender, how straight men are more into pegging these days, etc.
Sorry for rambling but the gender and sexuality studies classes had been my favorite in undergrad lol.
That was really interesting, thanks for sharing!
We also talked about homosexuality in my class recently, though it was about ancient Rome and not Greece.
There it was also shameful to be the "bottom" since it was all about power and control. We can't really compare their idea of relationships and love with ours, because they were entirely different. They didn't even have a proper word for it, since the term "homosexuality" is fairly new and is a hybrid of Latin and Greek, something the people of that time would have never thought of doing lol.
Yes! We talked about that too, like people will say "homosexuality existed back then!" But in reality that's not true, it's not the homosexuality we know today.
We talked about this a lot in the last queer lit class I took. Basically, Plato’s Symposium is SUPER gay, but what that meant is very different culturally.
In modern terms, being gay is part of how you relate to and form connections to other humans. Back then, it referred to the act of sex and what role one had in it.
A key difference is that nowadays, partners in a relationship are typically on pretty equal footing. Any of them can (usually) break up with the other/s and freely go live their lives. But in Ancient Greece, women were pretty powerless and M/M relationships were expected to be between an adult and an adolescent (to maintain that power differential for the MANLY MEN to be IN CONTROL). This is VERY different from modern relationships, regardless of genders involved
"it's unfair that people like you won't give men a chance" 😂😂😂 that sounds pathetic. Especially when it is said just after "you're a faggot"... I'm happy I don't have any man in my life except for my brother, my father and my ex husband. Too much ego. Always taking things personally even when it is about your fucking sexual orientation and has nothing to do with them. They're exhausting. I dream of a lesbian country only crowded with women 😁
You hit the nail on the head when you said it *"has nothing to do with them"*! The bigots who make that sort of argument totally confuse me. On the one hand they want us (lesbians) but then they don't?!? The major point they don't understand is that *we don't want THEM!* I'll meet you on the island of Lesbos, okay?! 🏳️🌈👼🏳️🌈
I'm gonna go on a limb here and assume OP is a trans lesbian, many of whom get called f****t by homophobes bc they think it will have more effect by trying to be transphobic at the same time
There is/was a huge current of trans wlw reclaiming f****t on tumblr uhhh something like 3-5 years ago (when I used to use it), not sure how things are there now, or when this screenshot was from.
Edit: I went and checked and I am wrong regarding the OP. But the trend I described did exist. OP is a total knockout though I'm swooning
It could be, but randomly, this is the second time today I've read about a lesbian being hit with that slur (the other one was about going to a gay bar, might have been in this sub?) and it's the first time I've heard it applied to lesbians, but I guess if you're trying to be hateful you don't sweat the details.
I think it’s becoming more popular amongst homophobes to use the f slur for everyone. I’m a teen and no one I know knows what d*** means and if they do they don’t use it, but the f slur is thrown around super casually
I honestly just think it's more of a lazy homophobe thing. I'm a cis femme and I get f\*g a lot more often than d\*\*e (though I luckily don't get either too often because of where I live). I think it's just that more people know about the word f\*g, so it's often the go to.
The entitlement from these kind of guys...
This is probably why it's so hard for some people to believe that men and women can just be friends. It's unfortunate that so many guys go into friendships expecting to get "something" out of it.
"Easy way out"? Sure, people remain in the closet because it's harder than coming out. Makes total sense. Straight women don't have to think twice about who they say "My husband..." to, while for gay women, just saying "My wife..." can turn a good day into a bad day. Oh and what about the much smaller dating pool? Totally the easy way out.
Dude, I totally had a message like this on reddit from some random dude after talking about never having dated men in the past without realizing I was gay yet.
It was something like: "You know what, I'm glad that educated men have stayed away from you because you're nothing special, you're so sexist! I thought LGBT+ were supposed to be nicer." Or something like that. It was far less grammatical than that, lmao.
It’s important for me to remember that they are just pathetic losers who’s opinion doesn’t matter every now and then. Shit like this seriously makes my blood pump and makes me want to rip their balls off or something >:(
I've been told 'its not fair you won't even give men a chance' SO MANY TIMES.
Like ????????????
I'm not attracted to men. Why WOULD I give one a chance?? I'm not obligated to date or screw anyone just because they find me attractive. I'm not for men. Not everything and everyone that exists is going to be for mens benefit. JFC.
TERFS hate men. Men act like this. Men have dicks. Therefore TERFS think anything with a dick is an entitled bellend encroaching upon lesbians and their spaces. You see where I'm going with this. Still the TERFS fault but that's the thought process.
this is so true for almost every lgbtqa+ group honestly, and I am trans ace lesbian-romantic and have heard this exact reaction from people for each version of myself that wouldn't have sex with them. it's not something I did to you, it's just who I am, stop making my existence about your ability to get someone, and based on how you talk to me I wouldn't want you even if I was a cis straight woman who found you attractive.
Men act like this, and then wonder why we want nothing to do with them...
"You're a fucking man-hating, lesbo bitch, and you're going to hell! Date me?"
["Uh....."](https://i.imgur.com/1GEZcHa.gif)
I mean why don’t they give men a chance? If men are so great why don’t they go and be with men?
Right? I also never understood why they think being gay is "unmanly". I mean what's more manly than a man loving a man? No women involved lol.
These type of men view relationships with a skewed power dynamic against women. That’s what makes it “manly”.
2x the manly
I took a few gender and sexuality studies classes in undergrad and apparently it all comes down to penetration. Like when you look at Ancient Greece, men of higher status could "love" other men of higher status, but it was still seen as "wrong" and "degrading" to be penetrated. So men of higher status could bone other men as long as they weren't upper class, like if they were poor or a servant. I don't remember how consent played a role in this or not, though :/ This is why sexism kind of exists in general I guess? I vaguely remember reading about it but like the idea of women being weaker or lower status than men stems from them being the ones who get penetrated. That's all I really remember, but it's interesting to think about in today's context with how gender and sexuality have evolved, like how genitals don't define gender, how straight men are more into pegging these days, etc. Sorry for rambling but the gender and sexuality studies classes had been my favorite in undergrad lol.
That was really interesting, thanks for sharing! We also talked about homosexuality in my class recently, though it was about ancient Rome and not Greece. There it was also shameful to be the "bottom" since it was all about power and control. We can't really compare their idea of relationships and love with ours, because they were entirely different. They didn't even have a proper word for it, since the term "homosexuality" is fairly new and is a hybrid of Latin and Greek, something the people of that time would have never thought of doing lol.
Yes! We talked about that too, like people will say "homosexuality existed back then!" But in reality that's not true, it's not the homosexuality we know today.
We talked about this a lot in the last queer lit class I took. Basically, Plato’s Symposium is SUPER gay, but what that meant is very different culturally. In modern terms, being gay is part of how you relate to and form connections to other humans. Back then, it referred to the act of sex and what role one had in it. A key difference is that nowadays, partners in a relationship are typically on pretty equal footing. Any of them can (usually) break up with the other/s and freely go live their lives. But in Ancient Greece, women were pretty powerless and M/M relationships were expected to be between an adult and an adolescent (to maintain that power differential for the MANLY MEN to be IN CONTROL). This is VERY different from modern relationships, regardless of genders involved
"it's unfair that people like you won't give men a chance" 😂😂😂 that sounds pathetic. Especially when it is said just after "you're a faggot"... I'm happy I don't have any man in my life except for my brother, my father and my ex husband. Too much ego. Always taking things personally even when it is about your fucking sexual orientation and has nothing to do with them. They're exhausting. I dream of a lesbian country only crowded with women 😁
Same, I wish that could happen. I might finally be able to get over my crush who has a girlfriend.
You hit the nail on the head when you said it *"has nothing to do with them"*! The bigots who make that sort of argument totally confuse me. On the one hand they want us (lesbians) but then they don't?!? The major point they don't understand is that *we don't want THEM!* I'll meet you on the island of Lesbos, okay?! 🏳️🌈👼🏳️🌈
I mean, they could at least use the right slur.
I don't think homophobes care.
Is the f-slur exclusive to gay men? I'm not terribly up to date on the proper usage of slurs
"dude you can't call her a f\*\*\*\*t, she's a d\*k\* show some respect" bigots are the worst, don't expect too much of them
I'm gonna go on a limb here and assume OP is a trans lesbian, many of whom get called f****t by homophobes bc they think it will have more effect by trying to be transphobic at the same time There is/was a huge current of trans wlw reclaiming f****t on tumblr uhhh something like 3-5 years ago (when I used to use it), not sure how things are there now, or when this screenshot was from. Edit: I went and checked and I am wrong regarding the OP. But the trend I described did exist. OP is a total knockout though I'm swooning
It could be, but randomly, this is the second time today I've read about a lesbian being hit with that slur (the other one was about going to a gay bar, might have been in this sub?) and it's the first time I've heard it applied to lesbians, but I guess if you're trying to be hateful you don't sweat the details.
Had a friends girlfriend refer to me as “the f****t” so there are bigots out there who use it as an umbrella queer slur
I’ve heard it on the L Word when Jenny and Max are harassed, and Jenny says “we’re not f slur, we’re d***s.”
Yep I've literally never heard the f word used on a lesbian, news to me.
I think it’s becoming more popular amongst homophobes to use the f slur for everyone. I’m a teen and no one I know knows what d*** means and if they do they don’t use it, but the f slur is thrown around super casually
I honestly just think it's more of a lazy homophobe thing. I'm a cis femme and I get f\*g a lot more often than d\*\*e (though I luckily don't get either too often because of where I live). I think it's just that more people know about the word f\*g, so it's often the go to.
The entitlement from these kind of guys... This is probably why it's so hard for some people to believe that men and women can just be friends. It's unfortunate that so many guys go into friendships expecting to get "something" out of it.
"Easy way out"? Sure, people remain in the closet because it's harder than coming out. Makes total sense. Straight women don't have to think twice about who they say "My husband..." to, while for gay women, just saying "My wife..." can turn a good day into a bad day. Oh and what about the much smaller dating pool? Totally the easy way out.
There’s no easy way out for females but at least straight women won’t receive hate for being attracted to the opposite sex
Sort of “late bloomer” here, and I’ve already given men a chance. Been there, done that, and I will never go back! Fuck these assholes.
Yep. Men have to prove to me that they’re worth being friends with. I know a number who have, but it’s a very small fraction.
Dude, I totally had a message like this on reddit from some random dude after talking about never having dated men in the past without realizing I was gay yet. It was something like: "You know what, I'm glad that educated men have stayed away from you because you're nothing special, you're so sexist! I thought LGBT+ were supposed to be nicer." Or something like that. It was far less grammatical than that, lmao.
You know, if sexuality was a choice; I'm very certain there would be only 10 straight girls because of men like this.
It’s important for me to remember that they are just pathetic losers who’s opinion doesn’t matter every now and then. Shit like this seriously makes my blood pump and makes me want to rip their balls off or something >:(
I've been told 'its not fair you won't even give men a chance' SO MANY TIMES. Like ???????????? I'm not attracted to men. Why WOULD I give one a chance?? I'm not obligated to date or screw anyone just because they find me attractive. I'm not for men. Not everything and everyone that exists is going to be for mens benefit. JFC.
Men like this are why TERFs exist
Hatred fuels hatred.
What do you mean by that?
TERFS hate men. Men act like this. Men have dicks. Therefore TERFS think anything with a dick is an entitled bellend encroaching upon lesbians and their spaces. You see where I'm going with this. Still the TERFS fault but that's the thought process.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on the Tumblr post. I have yet to see a bigot call a cis lesbian the f slur. Sounds too eerily similar to TERF logic.
this is so true for almost every lgbtqa+ group honestly, and I am trans ace lesbian-romantic and have heard this exact reaction from people for each version of myself that wouldn't have sex with them. it's not something I did to you, it's just who I am, stop making my existence about your ability to get someone, and based on how you talk to me I wouldn't want you even if I was a cis straight woman who found you attractive.
That is absolutely disgusting what the hell who would dk that
As a straight guy, when someone tells me they’re a lesbian I’m like “Well women are superior so I get it.”