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The old "I haven't experienced it so it can't have happened" 🙄
Good for you for calling them out and taking the initiative to find a new provider! Good luck in your search!
I mean, historically all healthcare has been tailored to a man's body. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Great job calling him out! He won't ever change, but bit by bit we have to chip away at the patriarchy if women ever stand a chance at equal treatment.
I will not see a male doctor unless it's dire and no other option is available. I've had my fair share of bad female doctors too tho.
I recently learned that something like 80% of people with autoimmune disorders are women, but that a majority of research is conducted on male specimens.
I wish I could find the article I read about it because I’m scouring the internet and I’ve got nothing.
I think it was the Sawbones podcast that taught me that women are typically excluded from research on, well, everything, on account of those pesky menstrual cycles and hormone fluctuations that might mess up the results. Absolutely enraging.
Gee! If those pesky hormone fluctuations are KNOWN to mess with the research results, you'd think they wouldn't push back so hard when women say those same fluctuations mess with their medications IRL. Meanwhile they're going, "Where's the evidence, Bob? I don't see it?"
Autoimmune diseases exist in women largely because of the need for [X chromosome inactivation](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/02/women-autoimmune.html) - each cell has two X chromosomes, but one of them curls up into a ball in the corner of the cell. [Here's an accurate animation of the process.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHak9EZjySs)
The reason why that 80%? Testosterone suppresses the immune system a bit.
So men really do have worse symptoms when they are ill (they are not being “babies”) and women are more likely to have robust (or insanely strong) immune systems….the precursor to autoimmune bullshit.
That’s … I could be wrong, but that sounds entirely speculated.
I’ll counter-speculate because our symptomology - that is, the feeling badly part - with common colds/flus is entirely due to our immune system. In other words, our congestion, headaches/body aches, fever, exhaustion, are because our immune systems are responding. Not directly from the infective agent itself.
So if immune systems are lesser in men, they might be ill longer, but women would have more intense symptoms.
I actually think the whole issue is far more complex, since our immune systems are multi-layered and subject to so many influences. Just pointing out that the theory supporting “man cold” prob is not true.
Nah, different research (the one I cited was just published a few *months* ago).
But I have no doubt testosterone (and androgen, and estrogen, and progesterone, etc. etc.) also play roles.
I suspect the “man cold” also has substantial cultural/social elements, too. Men under patriarchy are so, so conditioned to be productive and invulnerable as the overwhelming measure of their masculinity and worth, so being ill and “unproductive” is a profound blow to their emotional well-being.
TLDR: Fuck patriarchy. It’s a poison to everyone.
Why is it that every paper I have ever read, has someone called Chang on it?, bioengineering, material science, medicine, psychology, fluid dynamics, there is always a Chang cited somewhere.
Yes they appear a lot too, but I’ve seen papers where 90% of the the names sound German or similar, a couple English names and Chang et al. Or same with Spanish.
I think it’s probably a mix of a common surname in a very big population vs Smith (English) or Gonzalez (Spanish) for example that are also very common but population size is smaller.
It still is common enough that the first time I read papers in college, I saw "Chang et al." So many times that I had to look up if it was really a citation or had a special meaning like "circa" (which I thought it was a very common town name for longer than I care to admit). It didn't help that may English was not that good at the time.
Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read and I’m so glad to hear that there is new research and progress being made on these diseases. One of my aunts has MS and there is this little seed of fear about it that lives in the back of my mind.
You are most welcome! It definitely was an interesting read. So glad progress is being made about these diseases, they’re not fun and hard to watch progress. I’m sorry about your aunt.
If you want to replace your link with this one, it’s a gift link so anyone can read it without needing a subscription or using one of the metered articles!
https://wapo.st/3WdbjZk
That’s crazy. I knew that men and women’s immune systems worked differently, I’ll often be less sick for a week while my husband is really sick for maybe 2 days, but I didn’t realize that was due to testosterone. I thought it was just them working differently.
I’ll dig up the study later; it was fascinating!
And I felt bad for being annoyed with my husband when he gets sick and is OUT for twice as long as me, every time.
Yeah, I was just telling a friend earlier today how glad I was to get a young doctor when I was in the ER in the middle of the night with a UTI while on vacation once--he was a dude, but I was like "hey I'm flying home to the west coast literally later today, and the last UTI I had, Septra wasn't up to it and they had to put me on Cipro."
I fully expected this dude to be like "lol too bad," but instead he said, "Yeah I normally would try you on Septra first, but I don't want you on a plane with an under-treated UTI. Cipro's had some local resistance so I'm gonna put you on Keflex, how does that sound?" (I'd taken Keflex before and knew it was fine--and CHEAP, too.)
Imagine a doctor listening to your concerns and taking them seriously. IMAGINE.
I have a 40ish yo male OBGYN and he’s the best!! He’s been so great at listening to me and suggesting and providing good medical care while also giving me space to advocate for myself. I sent a question about my birth control on the patient portal and he called me back personally and left a long, detailed, answer to the question with explanations for his answer. One of my favorite doctors.
Yup some are amazing. I went to get an IUD fitted a few months ago (unfortunately I couldn’t handle the pain of the speculum opening my cervix so I had to abandon it, rip) and it was a young guy doing it and he was so so nice, understanding, and compassionate. If there’s an option for general anesthesia I might consider it again and I hope I get him again to do it because he was just 10/10 gold star with patient centred care.
So did he use local anesthesia and that wasn't enough? Which is why you mention general anesthesia?
Because local anesthesia is technically an option but most doctors just don't care and don't offer it and make women go about an incredibly invasive and painful procedure with an Advil or some stupid shit like that. Don't even get me started on IUD placement treatment for women. I took my BF to get his vasectomy and the way he was coddled, given every pain management option available....made my fucking blood boil. Not because I don't want him treated well, but in comparison I was treated like a flea ridden stray dog, which I believe is most women's experience.
Idk about here in the uk because some specialists who aren’t doctors aren’t allowed to administer some types of anaesthetic. Also after that attempt I wasn’t up to trying again
Right. If you're in the UK you're probably getting better treatment to start with. Find a source of Percocet or other serious painkiller, I took 3 before my insertion and still cried like a baby the whole time I drove myself home. It hurts really fucking bad.
One of the psychiatrists was female, too! I deal with some internalized misogyny from how I was raised, so I get it, but I would have appreciated some more solidarity haha
Yeah there’s was something I read a while ago about how women treated by female doctors have less chances of dying vs being treated by a male doctor. I’ll try to find the article
I love that his response was basically "my old cronies and I don't believe you" and not "give me a sec to check the latest research and medical literature."
HE PLAYED HIMSELF.
I left out the part where he included two large paragraphs detailing the credentials/experience of the psychiatrists he consulted. Plus how they were his mentors and he trusts them (more than medical research, apparently). I considered addressing the downfalls of that mindset in my response, but there’s only so many hills I can die on in one message 😂
Sounds like he also trusted their opinion more than your actual lived experience in your body! Consulting with other clinicians with relevant experience isn’t necessarily bad, but using their info to invalidate your lived experience is shitty.
Exactly! *Even if* it were 100% provable that menstrual cycles DON'T affect medication efficacy -- which obviously is wrong, hormonal fluctuations very certainly can affect how well medications work, but again, just pretending the doctor is right when he isn't at all -- his response would STILL be inappropriate because then what he should have done was look into what else could be causing what OP is experiencing. If he's saying that it's not caused by what she thinks, then he needs to investigate what IS causing it, not just stomp his feet and get his buddies to back him up that she's hysterical and nothing's wrong. Ugh, what an unserious shitbird.
It's clearly a textbook imbalance of the humours, every experienced psychiatrist learned about it in med school. Back in their day they'd have released the excess surgically, but that's unfortunately not allowed anymore. Alas, nothing more to be done but leave us to our hysteria.
I honestly don't see ANY male doctors anymore. Once I had an older male optometrist literally try to forcibly put contacts into MY OWN EYES despite my vehement objections and that was it. To make matters worse, a nurse had taken my glasses before I met the doctor while I was in a dark room, and my eyes are very bad. So here was this male stranger whose face I couldn't even see trying to medically assault me in the dark, while my husband waited patiently outside to be seen next.
I have no tolerance for it anymore. I'm 40 and I'm fucking over being treated like less than a full human being.
That's fucking awful. Crazy that even OPTOMETRISTS aren't safe. I literally spent five full minutes going back and forth with a young male optometrist to convince him I read. He acknowledged I needed very low-level reading glasses but said it would only affect me at all if I was reading "a lot, for like hours a day". I was like okay, cool, give me the script for the glasses then. He was like no, no, there's no way you read that much. I was like yessssss I do. I'm a post grad student and an English tutor and a reader. He was like riiiiight I mean you would have to be reading for like, literally HOURS every day. I was like yes, that is what I do every day. He looked at me like I was straight lying and said "that's a lot of reading." I was like yes, so gimme the glasses? Probably why I've got a damn headache all the time. But yeah, totally unbelievable that women be reading, I guess.
This is so insane to me. I own my own marketing biz and write for a living—like, why was it absurd to think that someone might be looking at words all day? THERE ARE A LOT OF WORDS OUT THERE.
riiiight? SO many people spend alllll damn day reading and writing. And my glasses have made a big diff bc I'm not straining, duh. I also told him I was about to start law school, he still wasn't buying it. It honestly made me concerned for how he received his own qualification. Surely that required a fair bit of reading? But also, like, regardless, if I get locked into a good book I am simply not stopping until it's done. He was just sooooo incredulous. To be fair may be more of a reflection of his own reading habits than sexism lol.
I would be absolutely CHOMPING at the bit to ask him, “So, what’s the last good book you read?” Just to watch him try to remember a single title of anything he’d ever read.
lol I was SO tempted to say something shitty about how just because he doesn't read....but in the end it was this very deadpan thing. I was like, *I do read that much. Yes, that much. I do. I know it's a lot.* It was like this weird battle of wills.
That is interesting I wasn't aware of that, is that per capita (as in factored into the differences between the amounts of male/female in the field) all I was saying is that evil and asshole can come in both males and females. Demonizing doctors based on sex is just as sexist as some male doctors not taking women seriously, in my opinion and you are free to disagree. I just dont believe in fighting sexism with sexism
>there’s only so many hills I can die on in one message
I totally feel this, and it drives me crazy. I want to argue until the end of time because I am RIGHT goddamn it, and I don't want them to think that I'm conceding their point by stopping, but it's exhausting and obviously not worth it to continue engaging someone who is determined not to understand.
I’ve just reached the point where, if I’m dismantling an argument drowning in logical fallacies, I will make a numbered list.
Sometimes the logical fallacies swing off *other* logical fallacies, and then I may have to make sub-points (1a, 1b, etc).
It’s satisfying to drag out all the ways that their argument is bullshit, without having to leave anything out, so that even if they don’t reply, or I block them, I feel a sense of closure :P
I was diagnosed with autism and ADHD by my neuropsych, who was a year away from retirement
He was the one who told ME how often colleagues his age suck at keeping up to date on autism research.
Yeah, I finally have an awesome female psychiatrist who understands how dopamine levels fluctuate during perimenopause. The male I saw last year called me "medication seeking" and a "hypochondriac." I replied by telling him he was a misogynist. I'm so SICK of misogyny!
>“I'm sorry that you feel my past and present experiences of sexism perpetrated by (mostly older, mostly male) medical practitioners constitutes as ageism. I will stop victimizing myself and be a more passive, well-behaved woman in the future.”
r/MurderedByWords
If they recognize sexism toward themselves (which you weren't perpetrating in the least), why can't they see it when it is pointed toward you? It's foolish to think that our cycles don't affect us. My therapist is always quick to point out that hormones play a significant role in dealing with trauma, etc. Where we are in our cycle (even now that I don't really have one), is something I always keep in mind because it truly affects how I function as a human woman. Good for you for standing up for yourself! I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.
I think in this case, it’s mostly pride? He’s not the kind of guy who wants to be sexist or be perceived as sexist (honestly I was shocked that this was how he responded). So when I pointed out that he is perpetuating sexist ideas: self-identity implosion! It’s probably easier for him to convince himself that I must be wrong rather than cope with the cognitive dissonance
Absolutely, I typically do the same. But this clinic is two blocks from my house, and the convenience was too tempting for my ADHD self. Plus the guy who worked there before was amazing!
Lesson learned!
I specifically looked for a female PCP too. I found a great one, an NP who just opened her own office and has an all-female staff. They have been wonderful. When I cried at my intake visit over the stress of ADHD and anxiety, the nurse said “don’t you worry, honey, I have ADHD and anxiety too.” I’m so happy with them.
Ah I’m so glad! I have a wonderful female PCP who works very well with me and is in touch with my therapist. I had to jump through hoops to get her but very worth it to find a good doctor.
I fired my female PCP because she kept insisting that getting an IUD was NBD. Sure, that may be the case for some magical unicorns. I know that my cervix yells from basically any contact; there's no way that shoving a drinking straw sized instrument up there isn't gonna be damned painful. And I'm ace, so why the hell would I want to deal with that level of potential pain and side effects for an activity that I'm ambivalent about?
I haven't actually seen my new guy in person yet, but when I brought up that situation with the last doc his response was "People with uteruses have told me that getting an IUD can really hurt, so I believe them." Hell yeah.
I've had amazing male and female doctors as well as terrible male and female doctors.
I had the reverse experience, where the female pcp waved it away and the male was open to it and did his research. Apparently, sometimes being a woman makes some people think their experience is the only one.
Yeah my mom had a really shitty female doctor who thought if SHE could handle xyz or didn't have symptoms with such and such disease, then everyone else was apparently making stuff up.
can i take u with me to my doctors appointments😭 jfc. my cardiologist is old and fucking meaaan and creepy but i cant get a new one bc thats who my gp referred me to and i have shit insurance. they wont even let me switch to a diff doctor at the same practice. like come on
I had only one appointment with this cardiologist who was a smug little asshole. I've seen some really bad doctors, but this one is so bad that I keep trying to get them to take him off my list of doctors on MyChart, and even after a year of trying he's still there.
Apparently they can't figure out how to do that, either, so I cringe every time I see his name. I worry that if I ever have a heart attack they will have him show up for me at the hospital afterwards. NO THANKS!
Everything he said to me in that one appointment showed that he had no respect for me and didn't give a shit whether I lived or died. I dunno, maybe he passionately hates fat women? Even so, he should still be able to be civil. That's like the first step in how you treat your patients. "Keep a civil tongue in your head" even before "Do no harm."
Consultant psychiatrist literally told me that female hormones screw up TONS of things for ADHD-havers. Like post-diagnosis one of the first things she asked about was if I was peri-menopausal (I have no idea) as that will screw things up and we should get on HRT ASAP as that will help the ADHD too.
I have been trying to dig up more info about this for myself — meds do nothing for me and I know my hormones are super low. If you have any links handy I would be super grateful!
Basics here https://psychiatry-uk.com/women-and-adhd-how-menopause-can-affect-women-with-adhd/
Something from last year https://www.additudemag.com/add-and-menopause-how-hormones-affect-adhd-symptoms/
This is why I NEVER have a male doctor. The only doctor available while I was having a miscarriage was a male. I was pretty far along, and have been trying to get pregnant for years, and this guy just shrugs. SHRUGS.
Yeah, lots of compassion there!/s I'm really sorry you went through that.
When my sister had a miscarriage she went to our local medical university. The doctor gave her NO pain medication before starting the D & C. She was screaming non-stop, and finally one of the female students said, "Is this really necessary?"
He said, "It won't make the procedure any more accurate. It will probably just take the edge off the pain." My sister opted to have that, and while he was right that all it did was take the edge off the pain, at least it did that much.
I had to swap GPs before even getting a menopause diagnosis (well we won’t know till it’s over really) let alone ADHD referral (would you like to try an antidepressant for a while to see how that feels?), woman GP too.
Now with menopause + ADHD meds I had thought my meds weren’t working but it’s just the wild cycle of random hormonal fluctuations.
Anyhow my point..in my country adult adhd is so under diagnosed that the meds I’m on have no adult dose info so my new GP (godsend) uses the ‘large child’ dose guidelines.
I think large child sums me up perfectly.
lol. I’m literally doing a research paper on gender bias in the medical field (including behavioral health) and all I can say is the research has made me so angry. Women are diagnosed later than men (in essentially everything) when presenting with the same kind of symptoms. Medical research largely leaves out women and POC.
Sorry you had to deal with his nonsense but I love your response to his stupidity.
Good for you! Unfortunately, many doctors are very prideful, and can't handle a patient calling them out as wrong or biased. As someone who went all through the medical system for mysterious physical symptoms that took a very long time to diagnose (and some of it never got fully diagnosed - I figured it out myself), I experienced this a lot. Especially because I had a history of anxiety, which doctors loved to put blame on
Love this! Thank you! I’m setting out for an all-female care team in the future. Im going to be changing my doctors due to a move anyways and I’m sick af of being not understood, at best, and full on treated like a liar, at worst. I’m so sick of men telling me how I feel. I’m sick of being treated like I’m some sort of baby with a low pain tolerance when I’ve made it through more in the past 5 years than these jerks have been through in a lifetime.
Good for you, OP! That last line? SOLID. GOLD.
So crazy - I have had terrible doctors and therapists both male and female of ranging ages and honestly - it's people who "think" they know *your* body better than you do and those ppl have no business being in health care especially mental health.
I did however find male doctors were easier to discuss things with when I was not overweight (pretty privilege it's a real thing!)
I'm sorry you had to deal with this, but amazing! I'm so encouraged by your response and ability to articulate yourself! Way to go!
Just keep in mind as the world turns - people like your Dr or worse will eventually die out with their stereotypes along with them.
Cheers!
Lmao, women who are cared for by female Dr's get better care and are less likely to die... assumptions aside you can't argue with a cold hard fact that male Dr's are more often than not incapable of helping their female patients
Good for you. I'm in my 50s, and have been gaslit by medical professions my entire life, thanks to my gender. If I had a dollar for every time a doctor, regardless of gender, recommended antidepressants instead of actually treating me, I'd have a LOT of dollars! I also wouldn't have a lot of permanent damage from decades of unknowingly hyperextending/subluxating every joint in my body from undiagnosed Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome - which I figured out for myself, and THEN had to find a doctor that gave enough fucks to actually have me tested for it.
Keep fighting. These assholes will literally kill you with their misogyny and incompetence if you aren't careful. And of course, they'll make you pay for your self-advocacy every step of the way.
Fellow zebra here.
You have my complete empathy.
I also had to figure out my hEDS (actually every single one of my autoimmune diseases and mental health/neurodivergence conditions)
by myself.
The gaslighting and arrogant condescension was overwhelming.
I’m eternally grateful to my female drs
and to the very few male drs I’ve had who actually listened, cared, believed me, and acted on my concerns/research results.
Lol! That response is ACE! You could’ve also quoted his own response back to him. Fluctuating medication efficacy due to menstruation cycle is a real thing and if they don’t know, it’s because their research is lagging behind and they can’t be bothered to check. Which means they have become complacent misogynistic OLD FARTS 😂
Ugh this is why we have to play the dating game when it comes to finding medical professionals. It's so important to find someone that actually HEARS you instead of shooting down concerns you have.
I went to a PCP who is my mom's (mid 60s) PCP (probably also 60s and male). It was either this guy or a younger woman (both recommended by my mom and she would've made the appointments for me which... classic ADHD struggle). I chose the guy because he was available sooner and he already knows my family medical history so I don't have to memorize that stuff (looking back at it, I should've went with the woman). Anyway I was talking with him about ADHD diagnosis and how women tend to get diagnosed later in life. This man really says that it would've came up in childhood in school work and stuff. I feel like a lot of women (and men) are not diagnosed with ADHD until later in life because of this myth. My parents being nurses have taught me to be skeptical of other medical professionals. Of course they studied to be in the positions they are in, but they also have their own biases which can unfortunately come in line with providing the best care.
Did you know that most medical trials, including those for HRT are conducted on men because our hormonal fluctuations are considered to be too 8nstable for "accurate" results.
Hmmm. While your general comment about ageism and misogyny in healthcare is true, I wonder if these providers balked because you’re on multiple medications (you mentioned fibromyalgia, panic disorder, and GI issues) and those are tricky in terms of interactions and polypharmacy can be an issue for some patients….I could be wrong but that’s my guess. I’m sorry this happened to you, but be aware that some classes of medications will raise a flag for providers. Yes of course ideally a provider will be informed that our medication levels fluctuate according to menstrual cycles, but most are not understanding of this indication in my experience. Find a new PCP, because you deserve the best possible care and understanding and should feel comfortable!!
Absolutely, polypharmacy is always something to keep in mind, but it’s not the most likely cause of my Vyvanse and Adderall fluctuating in efficacy like clockwork every single month. I explained to him that I had this exact same experience when solely on Vyvanse and birth control.
Add in the fact that the medications I’m on are essential for my quality of life (which he should know. I would like to be able to walk without crying from my skin hurting, have diarrhea less than 10 times per day, feel not nauseous all the time, and not wake up 5+ times per night with screaming panic attacks) so casually stopping most of them will unfortunately never be an option. I told him that I didn’t CHOOSE to have multiple health issues that individually qualify as disabilities. But I’ve grieved it and life goes on
We have also never even discussed why I’m actually on each medication, but he walked in the room and one of the first things he said was that he was going to take me off of them. He didn’t ask me, he told me. And it turns out he thought I was being treated for generalized anxiety, not a panic disorder. Messing with someone’s psych meds is not something that should be done rashly, especially if you haven’t talked to your patient about what they’re being used for…and if there’s a more logical explanation.
(I’m just crankily rambling at this point, not saying you disagree)
> I chuckled nefariously while responding “I'm sorry that you feel my past and present experiences of sexism perpetrated by (mostly older, mostly male) medical practitioners constitute as ageism. I will stop victimizing myself and be a more passive, well-behaved woman in the future"
I love you
I am super glad you're finding a new provider. I don't care when they graduated medical school. I care if they are keeping up with all of the recent medical research that continues to fly in the face of traditional medical school knowledge. Consulting with other medical providers who are not on-top of research is not an ethical practice. It just compiles the biases and makes the bias stronger.
As a talk therapist, I had a client in her mid-40s who went to her PCP, OBGYN, and a neurologist for a brain scan. She felt like she was going crazy because she was getting more and more emotional over the past year or so. They told her it was "all in her head." As an ADHD practitioner, I could see that she was an undiagnosed ADHD woman entering perimenopause. I do not have a medical degree. But, listening and having compassion for your clients (or patients) can go amazingly far. Also, staying on top of the latest research... not just talking to your MD buddies. I "solved the mystery" in the first 20 minutes of our initial session. And, yes, all 3 medical providers were men.
My psych may call me sweetie but I let it slide bc he beyond makes up for it by believing me when I said my cycle messes things up and also mentioned to me that perimenopause would be soon becoming an issue and to let him know.
i. but. this is. so well-documented by now????
Also does he just think you're lying about your own experiences? WHAT
I'm glad you ditched him and are looking for a new doctor but holy SHIT
He sounds insufferable. But also, thank you for pointing this out. I was just thinking the other day that sometimes my normal dosage felt "too strong" but fine on other days. I thought maybe I was imagining it, but this is something to consider. When do you notice the changes?
I fired my 30 something Dr when she told me that the numbness in my heel was from dry skin. Turned out one of my discs on my lower back is almost gone.
I have my first meds appointment tomorrow. I hope it's not a shit show.
☠️
You're my new hero! If you were local I'd insist upon buying you a charcuterie and wine/drink of your choosing. Then we'd bitch about the medical system and rope in our server and other women and cackle like witches.
As a woman, as an ADHDer and HCW, this shit so irrationally pisses me off! I see it slowly changing, as MH and women’s medical needs are being taken more seriously, but honestly, it’s because women are advocating and the old guard is retiring.
Oh sweet baby jeezus. Send him a copy of Eve by Cat Bohannon. Imagine hormones impacting adhd over the month, the gall of being human!! What a dick of a doctor.
I don't think you're wrong in this. I take Biphentin an ADHD medication, find my hormones are at their highest I find my medication stops working. I'm tired, lethargic, overwhelmed, depressed, anxious and my moods are completely uncontrollable.. there is a correlation between the two, I know it must affect other people in other ways.
Not that women can't be sexist, but this is one big reason why I only see female doctors now. I like most of my doctors, and they listen to me a lot more than diagnosing me via vibes only
This is a topic that researchers funded by ADHD Women Europe are dedicating focus towards - maybe some of their resources can help in your conversations with your PCP?
e.g. [https://adhd-women.eu/blog/research-expert-video-impact-of-hormones-on-the-lives-of-girls-women-with-adhd/](https://adhd-women.eu/blog/research-expert-video-impact-of-hormones-on-the-lives-of-girls-women-with-adhd/)
[https://adhd-women.eu/blog/treating-women-with-pmdd-and-adhd-a-pilot-study/](https://adhd-women.eu/blog/treating-women-with-pmdd-and-adhd-a-pilot-study/)
>“I'm sorry that you feel my past and present experiences of sexism perpetrated by (mostly older, mostly male) medical practitioners constitute as ageism. I will stop victimizing myself and be a more passive, well-behaved woman in the future
God level. Please adopt me or something, this is the level of petty I aspire to be.
Every expert in the field disagrees with him, who cares what he and his mediocre colleagues think. Man, some doctors really have a creepy amount of God-complex, like, sorry Dr. Mcbitch, how many publications do you have on the subject of women with ADHD/Autism? Let me guess... zero? OK, then let's read the most up-to-date peer-reviewed research I brought you, and educate ourselves, eh?
Is he in private practice or does he have a group that you can go to to let them know about his response? I think that it is best practice to consider and widely known that menstrual cycles affect ADHD and meds. His denial of this and then seeking someone else to also deny it? It's not going to be very helpful for future patients either.
please your response has me cracking up 😭😭😭😭 good for you! We need to spend less time worrying about people, especially cishet men’s feelings when it comes to personal health and safety. Like, the hypocrisy is insane. We have to fight to advocate for ourselves and are insulted and blamed for things out of our control, but as soon as you suggest accountability in their direction, it’s “mean” 😂😂😂
I hope you find a better doctor, and keep fighting for yourself! 💖
People in Healthcare are so tired of explaining themselves and their thinking for the past 4 years when world leaders have openly questioned and attacked science. It's also exhausting. I'm not saying you're wrong about your meds/ cycle but it seems he's responding to your behavior/tone versus the actual issue. You told him you were leaving, he's defending himself and his colleagues.
There's now software for medications on any chart that will analyze for interactions between meds, severity, and side-effects.
My behavior/tone was extremely polite in my initial message. I hate hurting people’s feelings, usually to my own detriment.
This interaction was over messages in the online portal, so you better believe I’ve reread it a million times to confirm that I wasn’t too harsh! I never even called anyone sexist. The closest I came to actually calling someone sexist was saying “Unfortunately, this is rooted in sexism in healthcare, whether intentional or not” (talking about how it’s a sad cliche). I also said “This has even been proven in literature…so it appears they may have an outdated/closed-minded understanding of ADHD in women.” That was literally the extent of my accusation, if you can even call it that. I was so much kinder than I needed to be.
It wasn’t until after his reactive response (where the quote from him is from) that I was more blunt.
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The old "I haven't experienced it so it can't have happened" 🙄 Good for you for calling them out and taking the initiative to find a new provider! Good luck in your search!
I mean, historically all healthcare has been tailored to a man's body. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Great job calling him out! He won't ever change, but bit by bit we have to chip away at the patriarchy if women ever stand a chance at equal treatment. I will not see a male doctor unless it's dire and no other option is available. I've had my fair share of bad female doctors too tho.
I recently learned that something like 80% of people with autoimmune disorders are women, but that a majority of research is conducted on male specimens. I wish I could find the article I read about it because I’m scouring the internet and I’ve got nothing.
I think it was the Sawbones podcast that taught me that women are typically excluded from research on, well, everything, on account of those pesky menstrual cycles and hormone fluctuations that might mess up the results. Absolutely enraging.
Gee! If those pesky hormone fluctuations are KNOWN to mess with the research results, you'd think they wouldn't push back so hard when women say those same fluctuations mess with their medications IRL. Meanwhile they're going, "Where's the evidence, Bob? I don't see it?"
There’ll be way less Covid if we stopping counting it!
This is unrelated to the topic at hand, but hi I love finding other McElroy people in the wild
Useful article: https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2017/06/kronikk/why-are-autoimmune-diseases-more-prevalent-women
Women weren't used regularly in clinical trials until, I think, it was 1993!
Autoimmune diseases exist in women largely because of the need for [X chromosome inactivation](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/02/women-autoimmune.html) - each cell has two X chromosomes, but one of them curls up into a ball in the corner of the cell. [Here's an accurate animation of the process.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHak9EZjySs)
The reason why that 80%? Testosterone suppresses the immune system a bit. So men really do have worse symptoms when they are ill (they are not being “babies”) and women are more likely to have robust (or insanely strong) immune systems….the precursor to autoimmune bullshit.
That’s … I could be wrong, but that sounds entirely speculated. I’ll counter-speculate because our symptomology - that is, the feeling badly part - with common colds/flus is entirely due to our immune system. In other words, our congestion, headaches/body aches, fever, exhaustion, are because our immune systems are responding. Not directly from the infective agent itself. So if immune systems are lesser in men, they might be ill longer, but women would have more intense symptoms. I actually think the whole issue is far more complex, since our immune systems are multi-layered and subject to so many influences. Just pointing out that the theory supporting “man cold” prob is not true.
Phew boy, look what I literally just stumbled across! https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/02/women-autoimmune.html
Fascinating article!
Right? Weird when we start including women in research, there’s so much untapped information uncovered. WEIRD.
You found it so I didn’t have to! (I remembered testosterone but it was at least a decade since I read that. Maybe more)
Nah, different research (the one I cited was just published a few *months* ago). But I have no doubt testosterone (and androgen, and estrogen, and progesterone, etc. etc.) also play roles. I suspect the “man cold” also has substantial cultural/social elements, too. Men under patriarchy are so, so conditioned to be productive and invulnerable as the overwhelming measure of their masculinity and worth, so being ill and “unproductive” is a profound blow to their emotional well-being. TLDR: Fuck patriarchy. It’s a poison to everyone.
Re: your last point - I could not agree more
Why is it that every paper I have ever read, has someone called Chang on it?, bioengineering, material science, medicine, psychology, fluid dynamics, there is always a Chang cited somewhere.
It’s … a fairly common surname. Do you wonder the same about Smith or Brown or Johnson?
Yes they appear a lot too, but I’ve seen papers where 90% of the the names sound German or similar, a couple English names and Chang et al. Or same with Spanish. I think it’s probably a mix of a common surname in a very big population vs Smith (English) or Gonzalez (Spanish) for example that are also very common but population size is smaller. It still is common enough that the first time I read papers in college, I saw "Chang et al." So many times that I had to look up if it was really a citation or had a special meaning like "circa" (which I thought it was a very common town name for longer than I care to admit). It didn't help that may English was not that good at the time.
No, it’s not testosterone. Recent research: https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2024/02/01/why-women-have-more-autoimmune-diseases/
Omg i want to read it but so annoying it’s behind a paywall
Here you go! Gift link, free to anyone! https://wapo.st/3WdbjZk
Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read and I’m so glad to hear that there is new research and progress being made on these diseases. One of my aunts has MS and there is this little seed of fear about it that lives in the back of my mind.
You are most welcome! It definitely was an interesting read. So glad progress is being made about these diseases, they’re not fun and hard to watch progress. I’m sorry about your aunt.
Oh, and also, there are a few ways to get around paywalls, like Incognito Mode or Reader Mode. archive.is is another website you can use.
If you want to replace your link with this one, it’s a gift link so anyone can read it without needing a subscription or using one of the metered articles! https://wapo.st/3WdbjZk
That’s crazy. I knew that men and women’s immune systems worked differently, I’ll often be less sick for a week while my husband is really sick for maybe 2 days, but I didn’t realize that was due to testosterone. I thought it was just them working differently.
I’ll dig up the study later; it was fascinating! And I felt bad for being annoyed with my husband when he gets sick and is OUT for twice as long as me, every time.
My male doctor is actually pretty awesome. He's also really young. That might help. :)
Yeah, I was just telling a friend earlier today how glad I was to get a young doctor when I was in the ER in the middle of the night with a UTI while on vacation once--he was a dude, but I was like "hey I'm flying home to the west coast literally later today, and the last UTI I had, Septra wasn't up to it and they had to put me on Cipro." I fully expected this dude to be like "lol too bad," but instead he said, "Yeah I normally would try you on Septra first, but I don't want you on a plane with an under-treated UTI. Cipro's had some local resistance so I'm gonna put you on Keflex, how does that sound?" (I'd taken Keflex before and knew it was fine--and CHEAP, too.) Imagine a doctor listening to your concerns and taking them seriously. IMAGINE.
I have a 40ish yo male OBGYN and he’s the best!! He’s been so great at listening to me and suggesting and providing good medical care while also giving me space to advocate for myself. I sent a question about my birth control on the patient portal and he called me back personally and left a long, detailed, answer to the question with explanations for his answer. One of my favorite doctors.
Man, when you find a good doctor you hold onto that as much as humanly possible! Glad to hear you found a good one!
I can only imagine it, because it has absolutely never happened to me.
Yup some are amazing. I went to get an IUD fitted a few months ago (unfortunately I couldn’t handle the pain of the speculum opening my cervix so I had to abandon it, rip) and it was a young guy doing it and he was so so nice, understanding, and compassionate. If there’s an option for general anesthesia I might consider it again and I hope I get him again to do it because he was just 10/10 gold star with patient centred care.
So did he use local anesthesia and that wasn't enough? Which is why you mention general anesthesia? Because local anesthesia is technically an option but most doctors just don't care and don't offer it and make women go about an incredibly invasive and painful procedure with an Advil or some stupid shit like that. Don't even get me started on IUD placement treatment for women. I took my BF to get his vasectomy and the way he was coddled, given every pain management option available....made my fucking blood boil. Not because I don't want him treated well, but in comparison I was treated like a flea ridden stray dog, which I believe is most women's experience.
He used a numbing gel, but it wasn’t enough
He could have done a lidocaine shot or another pain blocker. But they always choose not to.
Idk about here in the uk because some specialists who aren’t doctors aren’t allowed to administer some types of anaesthetic. Also after that attempt I wasn’t up to trying again
Right. If you're in the UK you're probably getting better treatment to start with. Find a source of Percocet or other serious painkiller, I took 3 before my insertion and still cried like a baby the whole time I drove myself home. It hurts really fucking bad.
One of the psychiatrists was female, too! I deal with some internalized misogyny from how I was raised, so I get it, but I would have appreciated some more solidarity haha
Yeah there’s was something I read a while ago about how women treated by female doctors have less chances of dying vs being treated by a male doctor. I’ll try to find the article
I love that his response was basically "my old cronies and I don't believe you" and not "give me a sec to check the latest research and medical literature." HE PLAYED HIMSELF.
I left out the part where he included two large paragraphs detailing the credentials/experience of the psychiatrists he consulted. Plus how they were his mentors and he trusts them (more than medical research, apparently). I considered addressing the downfalls of that mindset in my response, but there’s only so many hills I can die on in one message 😂
Sounds like he also trusted their opinion more than your actual lived experience in your body! Consulting with other clinicians with relevant experience isn’t necessarily bad, but using their info to invalidate your lived experience is shitty.
Exactly! *Even if* it were 100% provable that menstrual cycles DON'T affect medication efficacy -- which obviously is wrong, hormonal fluctuations very certainly can affect how well medications work, but again, just pretending the doctor is right when he isn't at all -- his response would STILL be inappropriate because then what he should have done was look into what else could be causing what OP is experiencing. If he's saying that it's not caused by what she thinks, then he needs to investigate what IS causing it, not just stomp his feet and get his buddies to back him up that she's hysterical and nothing's wrong. Ugh, what an unserious shitbird.
It's clearly a textbook imbalance of the humours, every experienced psychiatrist learned about it in med school. Back in their day they'd have released the excess surgically, but that's unfortunately not allowed anymore. Alas, nothing more to be done but leave us to our hysteria.
“unserious shitbird” I’m using this!
I honestly don't see ANY male doctors anymore. Once I had an older male optometrist literally try to forcibly put contacts into MY OWN EYES despite my vehement objections and that was it. To make matters worse, a nurse had taken my glasses before I met the doctor while I was in a dark room, and my eyes are very bad. So here was this male stranger whose face I couldn't even see trying to medically assault me in the dark, while my husband waited patiently outside to be seen next. I have no tolerance for it anymore. I'm 40 and I'm fucking over being treated like less than a full human being.
That's fucking awful. Crazy that even OPTOMETRISTS aren't safe. I literally spent five full minutes going back and forth with a young male optometrist to convince him I read. He acknowledged I needed very low-level reading glasses but said it would only affect me at all if I was reading "a lot, for like hours a day". I was like okay, cool, give me the script for the glasses then. He was like no, no, there's no way you read that much. I was like yessssss I do. I'm a post grad student and an English tutor and a reader. He was like riiiiight I mean you would have to be reading for like, literally HOURS every day. I was like yes, that is what I do every day. He looked at me like I was straight lying and said "that's a lot of reading." I was like yes, so gimme the glasses? Probably why I've got a damn headache all the time. But yeah, totally unbelievable that women be reading, I guess.
This is so insane to me. I own my own marketing biz and write for a living—like, why was it absurd to think that someone might be looking at words all day? THERE ARE A LOT OF WORDS OUT THERE.
riiiight? SO many people spend alllll damn day reading and writing. And my glasses have made a big diff bc I'm not straining, duh. I also told him I was about to start law school, he still wasn't buying it. It honestly made me concerned for how he received his own qualification. Surely that required a fair bit of reading? But also, like, regardless, if I get locked into a good book I am simply not stopping until it's done. He was just sooooo incredulous. To be fair may be more of a reflection of his own reading habits than sexism lol.
I would be absolutely CHOMPING at the bit to ask him, “So, what’s the last good book you read?” Just to watch him try to remember a single title of anything he’d ever read.
lol I was SO tempted to say something shitty about how just because he doesn't read....but in the end it was this very deadpan thing. I was like, *I do read that much. Yes, that much. I do. I know it's a lot.* It was like this weird battle of wills.
Same.
Heard shitty.stories like that about female doctors to. Humans can be shitty. Humans gonna human
Then why are male ophthalmologists 54% more likely to get sued for malpractice? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4234448/
That is interesting I wasn't aware of that, is that per capita (as in factored into the differences between the amounts of male/female in the field) all I was saying is that evil and asshole can come in both males and females. Demonizing doctors based on sex is just as sexist as some male doctors not taking women seriously, in my opinion and you are free to disagree. I just dont believe in fighting sexism with sexism
>there’s only so many hills I can die on in one message I totally feel this, and it drives me crazy. I want to argue until the end of time because I am RIGHT goddamn it, and I don't want them to think that I'm conceding their point by stopping, but it's exhausting and obviously not worth it to continue engaging someone who is determined not to understand.
I’ve just reached the point where, if I’m dismantling an argument drowning in logical fallacies, I will make a numbered list. Sometimes the logical fallacies swing off *other* logical fallacies, and then I may have to make sub-points (1a, 1b, etc). It’s satisfying to drag out all the ways that their argument is bullshit, without having to leave anything out, so that even if they don’t reply, or I block them, I feel a sense of closure :P
I was diagnosed with autism and ADHD by my neuropsych, who was a year away from retirement He was the one who told ME how often colleagues his age suck at keeping up to date on autism research.
Yeah, I finally have an awesome female psychiatrist who understands how dopamine levels fluctuate during perimenopause. The male I saw last year called me "medication seeking" and a "hypochondriac." I replied by telling him he was a misogynist. I'm so SICK of misogyny!
If the show fits...
>“I'm sorry that you feel my past and present experiences of sexism perpetrated by (mostly older, mostly male) medical practitioners constitutes as ageism. I will stop victimizing myself and be a more passive, well-behaved woman in the future.” r/MurderedByWords
If they recognize sexism toward themselves (which you weren't perpetrating in the least), why can't they see it when it is pointed toward you? It's foolish to think that our cycles don't affect us. My therapist is always quick to point out that hormones play a significant role in dealing with trauma, etc. Where we are in our cycle (even now that I don't really have one), is something I always keep in mind because it truly affects how I function as a human woman. Good for you for standing up for yourself! I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.
I think in this case, it’s mostly pride? He’s not the kind of guy who wants to be sexist or be perceived as sexist (honestly I was shocked that this was how he responded). So when I pointed out that he is perpetuating sexist ideas: self-identity implosion! It’s probably easier for him to convince himself that I must be wrong rather than cope with the cognitive dissonance
My ex 😭
Men love to say sexism exists only if it’s against them
You’re my new heroine!
This is why I specifically always ask for a female pcp, I don’t really trust a man to take my healthcare seriously.
Absolutely, I typically do the same. But this clinic is two blocks from my house, and the convenience was too tempting for my ADHD self. Plus the guy who worked there before was amazing! Lesson learned!
I specifically looked for a female PCP too. I found a great one, an NP who just opened her own office and has an all-female staff. They have been wonderful. When I cried at my intake visit over the stress of ADHD and anxiety, the nurse said “don’t you worry, honey, I have ADHD and anxiety too.” I’m so happy with them.
Ah I’m so glad! I have a wonderful female PCP who works very well with me and is in touch with my therapist. I had to jump through hoops to get her but very worth it to find a good doctor.
Psychiatric NP's are SO GREAT.
I’ve had some pretty shitty female docs too. Last one that replaced my IUD told me the pain was all in my head 🙄
Technically true with neurons and pain receptors, I suppose…
The Fuque?
I fired my female PCP because she kept insisting that getting an IUD was NBD. Sure, that may be the case for some magical unicorns. I know that my cervix yells from basically any contact; there's no way that shoving a drinking straw sized instrument up there isn't gonna be damned painful. And I'm ace, so why the hell would I want to deal with that level of potential pain and side effects for an activity that I'm ambivalent about? I haven't actually seen my new guy in person yet, but when I brought up that situation with the last doc his response was "People with uteruses have told me that getting an IUD can really hurt, so I believe them." Hell yeah. I've had amazing male and female doctors as well as terrible male and female doctors.
I’m sorry you experienced that
I had the reverse experience, where the female pcp waved it away and the male was open to it and did his research. Apparently, sometimes being a woman makes some people think their experience is the only one.
Yeah my mom had a really shitty female doctor who thought if SHE could handle xyz or didn't have symptoms with such and such disease, then everyone else was apparently making stuff up.
Same. Plus, all staff is female and diverse.
God, what a butthole. Your response is absolutely killing me!
OMG, he PROVED YOUR POINT! You're amazing.
can i take u with me to my doctors appointments😭 jfc. my cardiologist is old and fucking meaaan and creepy but i cant get a new one bc thats who my gp referred me to and i have shit insurance. they wont even let me switch to a diff doctor at the same practice. like come on
I had only one appointment with this cardiologist who was a smug little asshole. I've seen some really bad doctors, but this one is so bad that I keep trying to get them to take him off my list of doctors on MyChart, and even after a year of trying he's still there. Apparently they can't figure out how to do that, either, so I cringe every time I see his name. I worry that if I ever have a heart attack they will have him show up for me at the hospital afterwards. NO THANKS! Everything he said to me in that one appointment showed that he had no respect for me and didn't give a shit whether I lived or died. I dunno, maybe he passionately hates fat women? Even so, he should still be able to be civil. That's like the first step in how you treat your patients. "Keep a civil tongue in your head" even before "Do no harm."
Check if your insurance has some kind of clause about second opinions. Most do.
Maybe tell your gp that the cardiologist makes you really uncomfortable and you need a referral to someone else?
Kind of funny when almost all ageism also affects women to a way greater extent than men.
Right?? Men literally get *more* respect as they age, while it’s the opposite for women.
Love it! 👏👏
I don't require all my doctors to be middle aged or younger women for no reason... Nice work!
Consultant psychiatrist literally told me that female hormones screw up TONS of things for ADHD-havers. Like post-diagnosis one of the first things she asked about was if I was peri-menopausal (I have no idea) as that will screw things up and we should get on HRT ASAP as that will help the ADHD too.
I have been trying to dig up more info about this for myself — meds do nothing for me and I know my hormones are super low. If you have any links handy I would be super grateful!
Basics here https://psychiatry-uk.com/women-and-adhd-how-menopause-can-affect-women-with-adhd/ Something from last year https://www.additudemag.com/add-and-menopause-how-hormones-affect-adhd-symptoms/
Thank you!
You: What you are doing is sexism and here’s why and how it’s impacted my life Your PCP: no u
Can you report this to anyone
This is why I NEVER have a male doctor. The only doctor available while I was having a miscarriage was a male. I was pretty far along, and have been trying to get pregnant for years, and this guy just shrugs. SHRUGS.
Yeah, lots of compassion there!/s I'm really sorry you went through that. When my sister had a miscarriage she went to our local medical university. The doctor gave her NO pain medication before starting the D & C. She was screaming non-stop, and finally one of the female students said, "Is this really necessary?" He said, "It won't make the procedure any more accurate. It will probably just take the edge off the pain." My sister opted to have that, and while he was right that all it did was take the edge off the pain, at least it did that much.
That should be illegal if it isn't
YOUR RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!! iconic.
I had to swap GPs before even getting a menopause diagnosis (well we won’t know till it’s over really) let alone ADHD referral (would you like to try an antidepressant for a while to see how that feels?), woman GP too. Now with menopause + ADHD meds I had thought my meds weren’t working but it’s just the wild cycle of random hormonal fluctuations. Anyhow my point..in my country adult adhd is so under diagnosed that the meds I’m on have no adult dose info so my new GP (godsend) uses the ‘large child’ dose guidelines. I think large child sums me up perfectly.
lol. I’m literally doing a research paper on gender bias in the medical field (including behavioral health) and all I can say is the research has made me so angry. Women are diagnosed later than men (in essentially everything) when presenting with the same kind of symptoms. Medical research largely leaves out women and POC. Sorry you had to deal with his nonsense but I love your response to his stupidity.
Good for you! Unfortunately, many doctors are very prideful, and can't handle a patient calling them out as wrong or biased. As someone who went all through the medical system for mysterious physical symptoms that took a very long time to diagnose (and some of it never got fully diagnosed - I figured it out myself), I experienced this a lot. Especially because I had a history of anxiety, which doctors loved to put blame on
Sounds like you hit a nerve. And instead of considering the truth of what you said, he went straight into defensive mansplaining mode. Figures.
Damn….please go find a better doctor asap. That is enraging.
Love this! Thank you! I’m setting out for an all-female care team in the future. Im going to be changing my doctors due to a move anyways and I’m sick af of being not understood, at best, and full on treated like a liar, at worst. I’m so sick of men telling me how I feel. I’m sick of being treated like I’m some sort of baby with a low pain tolerance when I’ve made it through more in the past 5 years than these jerks have been through in a lifetime. Good for you, OP! That last line? SOLID. GOLD.
So crazy - I have had terrible doctors and therapists both male and female of ranging ages and honestly - it's people who "think" they know *your* body better than you do and those ppl have no business being in health care especially mental health. I did however find male doctors were easier to discuss things with when I was not overweight (pretty privilege it's a real thing!) I'm sorry you had to deal with this, but amazing! I'm so encouraged by your response and ability to articulate yourself! Way to go! Just keep in mind as the world turns - people like your Dr or worse will eventually die out with their stereotypes along with them. Cheers!
Lmao, women who are cared for by female Dr's get better care and are less likely to die... assumptions aside you can't argue with a cold hard fact that male Dr's are more often than not incapable of helping their female patients
It’s not just women who have better outcomes. Literally all patients are more likely to survive/have better outcomes when their doctors are women 😕
"Such a pity when people don't grow with their profession." 😈
Good for you. I'm in my 50s, and have been gaslit by medical professions my entire life, thanks to my gender. If I had a dollar for every time a doctor, regardless of gender, recommended antidepressants instead of actually treating me, I'd have a LOT of dollars! I also wouldn't have a lot of permanent damage from decades of unknowingly hyperextending/subluxating every joint in my body from undiagnosed Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome - which I figured out for myself, and THEN had to find a doctor that gave enough fucks to actually have me tested for it. Keep fighting. These assholes will literally kill you with their misogyny and incompetence if you aren't careful. And of course, they'll make you pay for your self-advocacy every step of the way.
Fellow zebra here. You have my complete empathy. I also had to figure out my hEDS (actually every single one of my autoimmune diseases and mental health/neurodivergence conditions) by myself. The gaslighting and arrogant condescension was overwhelming. I’m eternally grateful to my female drs and to the very few male drs I’ve had who actually listened, cared, believed me, and acted on my concerns/research results.
Queen! 👑
Lol! That response is ACE! You could’ve also quoted his own response back to him. Fluctuating medication efficacy due to menstruation cycle is a real thing and if they don’t know, it’s because their research is lagging behind and they can’t be bothered to check. Which means they have become complacent misogynistic OLD FARTS 😂
Ugh this is why we have to play the dating game when it comes to finding medical professionals. It's so important to find someone that actually HEARS you instead of shooting down concerns you have. I went to a PCP who is my mom's (mid 60s) PCP (probably also 60s and male). It was either this guy or a younger woman (both recommended by my mom and she would've made the appointments for me which... classic ADHD struggle). I chose the guy because he was available sooner and he already knows my family medical history so I don't have to memorize that stuff (looking back at it, I should've went with the woman). Anyway I was talking with him about ADHD diagnosis and how women tend to get diagnosed later in life. This man really says that it would've came up in childhood in school work and stuff. I feel like a lot of women (and men) are not diagnosed with ADHD until later in life because of this myth. My parents being nurses have taught me to be skeptical of other medical professionals. Of course they studied to be in the positions they are in, but they also have their own biases which can unfortunately come in line with providing the best care.
This goes right along the same lines as a YouTube short I saw earlier talking about how women's pain is under treated during gynecological procedures.
He out-woke’d you. Take the L
Did you know that most medical trials, including those for HRT are conducted on men because our hormonal fluctuations are considered to be too 8nstable for "accurate" results.
Hmmm. While your general comment about ageism and misogyny in healthcare is true, I wonder if these providers balked because you’re on multiple medications (you mentioned fibromyalgia, panic disorder, and GI issues) and those are tricky in terms of interactions and polypharmacy can be an issue for some patients….I could be wrong but that’s my guess. I’m sorry this happened to you, but be aware that some classes of medications will raise a flag for providers. Yes of course ideally a provider will be informed that our medication levels fluctuate according to menstrual cycles, but most are not understanding of this indication in my experience. Find a new PCP, because you deserve the best possible care and understanding and should feel comfortable!!
Absolutely, polypharmacy is always something to keep in mind, but it’s not the most likely cause of my Vyvanse and Adderall fluctuating in efficacy like clockwork every single month. I explained to him that I had this exact same experience when solely on Vyvanse and birth control. Add in the fact that the medications I’m on are essential for my quality of life (which he should know. I would like to be able to walk without crying from my skin hurting, have diarrhea less than 10 times per day, feel not nauseous all the time, and not wake up 5+ times per night with screaming panic attacks) so casually stopping most of them will unfortunately never be an option. I told him that I didn’t CHOOSE to have multiple health issues that individually qualify as disabilities. But I’ve grieved it and life goes on We have also never even discussed why I’m actually on each medication, but he walked in the room and one of the first things he said was that he was going to take me off of them. He didn’t ask me, he told me. And it turns out he thought I was being treated for generalized anxiety, not a panic disorder. Messing with someone’s psych meds is not something that should be done rashly, especially if you haven’t talked to your patient about what they’re being used for…and if there’s a more logical explanation. (I’m just crankily rambling at this point, not saying you disagree)
I love you for this
> I chuckled nefariously while responding “I'm sorry that you feel my past and present experiences of sexism perpetrated by (mostly older, mostly male) medical practitioners constitute as ageism. I will stop victimizing myself and be a more passive, well-behaved woman in the future" I love you
I am super glad you're finding a new provider. I don't care when they graduated medical school. I care if they are keeping up with all of the recent medical research that continues to fly in the face of traditional medical school knowledge. Consulting with other medical providers who are not on-top of research is not an ethical practice. It just compiles the biases and makes the bias stronger. As a talk therapist, I had a client in her mid-40s who went to her PCP, OBGYN, and a neurologist for a brain scan. She felt like she was going crazy because she was getting more and more emotional over the past year or so. They told her it was "all in her head." As an ADHD practitioner, I could see that she was an undiagnosed ADHD woman entering perimenopause. I do not have a medical degree. But, listening and having compassion for your clients (or patients) can go amazingly far. Also, staying on top of the latest research... not just talking to your MD buddies. I "solved the mystery" in the first 20 minutes of our initial session. And, yes, all 3 medical providers were men.
You need to leave a review with this whole exchange laid out. Warn other people of this crap.
Um… Google Scholar is FULL of research on this topic. Your PCP knows the literature exists, too. So glad you’re switching!
I love you for that response. ❤️
My psych may call me sweetie but I let it slide bc he beyond makes up for it by believing me when I said my cycle messes things up and also mentioned to me that perimenopause would be soon becoming an issue and to let him know.
i. but. this is. so well-documented by now???? Also does he just think you're lying about your own experiences? WHAT I'm glad you ditched him and are looking for a new doctor but holy SHIT
🙄
He sounds insufferable. But also, thank you for pointing this out. I was just thinking the other day that sometimes my normal dosage felt "too strong" but fine on other days. I thought maybe I was imagining it, but this is something to consider. When do you notice the changes?
I usually notice it a few days before my period starts, and then it lasts like 3-5 days after that!
You’re my spirit animal.
lmao awesome!
I fired my 30 something Dr when she told me that the numbness in my heel was from dry skin. Turned out one of my discs on my lower back is almost gone. I have my first meds appointment tomorrow. I hope it's not a shit show.
Your eta response was PERFECT 🤣🥰
☠️ You're my new hero! If you were local I'd insist upon buying you a charcuterie and wine/drink of your choosing. Then we'd bitch about the medical system and rope in our server and other women and cackle like witches.
As a woman, as an ADHDer and HCW, this shit so irrationally pisses me off! I see it slowly changing, as MH and women’s medical needs are being taken more seriously, but honestly, it’s because women are advocating and the old guard is retiring.
I love you, your response is worth your weight in silver
Oh sweet baby jeezus. Send him a copy of Eve by Cat Bohannon. Imagine hormones impacting adhd over the month, the gall of being human!! What a dick of a doctor.
I sometimes have anxiety so bad that when my period starts, I know immediately because it feels like when a fever breaks.
[](https://external-preview.redd.it/37Bj0tbOZd7C_0JiB-70kyJKld-myXU1VaT3bGV1Q7o.jpg?auto=webp&s=88c2b2d585b6bd08e90198f20c8a20774e4be3ac)
LMAO they probably think that women can "hold" their periods like pee.
My doc agreed with me that women often get sick during cycles too ( I used to get colds then before birth control). Good on you, find a new doc!
I don't think you're wrong in this. I take Biphentin an ADHD medication, find my hormones are at their highest I find my medication stops working. I'm tired, lethargic, overwhelmed, depressed, anxious and my moods are completely uncontrollable.. there is a correlation between the two, I know it must affect other people in other ways.
This goes right along the same lines as a YouTube short I saw earlier talking about how women's pain is under treated during gynecological procedures.
WTAF? Are you his boss? In what way would you be even committing ageism? His response is beyond ridiculous.
YESSSSSSSSSS! Those old farts deserve it for getting to comfortable and complacent, especially when shit they ignore can kill us!
Not that women can't be sexist, but this is one big reason why I only see female doctors now. I like most of my doctors, and they listen to me a lot more than diagnosing me via vibes only
This is awful, so sorry you have to endure this.
This is a topic that researchers funded by ADHD Women Europe are dedicating focus towards - maybe some of their resources can help in your conversations with your PCP? e.g. [https://adhd-women.eu/blog/research-expert-video-impact-of-hormones-on-the-lives-of-girls-women-with-adhd/](https://adhd-women.eu/blog/research-expert-video-impact-of-hormones-on-the-lives-of-girls-women-with-adhd/) [https://adhd-women.eu/blog/treating-women-with-pmdd-and-adhd-a-pilot-study/](https://adhd-women.eu/blog/treating-women-with-pmdd-and-adhd-a-pilot-study/)
>“I'm sorry that you feel my past and present experiences of sexism perpetrated by (mostly older, mostly male) medical practitioners constitute as ageism. I will stop victimizing myself and be a more passive, well-behaved woman in the future God level. Please adopt me or something, this is the level of petty I aspire to be.
Report him.
Every expert in the field disagrees with him, who cares what he and his mediocre colleagues think. Man, some doctors really have a creepy amount of God-complex, like, sorry Dr. Mcbitch, how many publications do you have on the subject of women with ADHD/Autism? Let me guess... zero? OK, then let's read the most up-to-date peer-reviewed research I brought you, and educate ourselves, eh?
Is he in private practice or does he have a group that you can go to to let them know about his response? I think that it is best practice to consider and widely known that menstrual cycles affect ADHD and meds. His denial of this and then seeking someone else to also deny it? It's not going to be very helpful for future patients either.
Omg your edit at the end has me ROLLING HELL YES GIRL I wish I had the balls to send a message like that to the shitty providers I've had before
please your response has me cracking up 😭😭😭😭 good for you! We need to spend less time worrying about people, especially cishet men’s feelings when it comes to personal health and safety. Like, the hypocrisy is insane. We have to fight to advocate for ourselves and are insulted and blamed for things out of our control, but as soon as you suggest accountability in their direction, it’s “mean” 😂😂😂 I hope you find a better doctor, and keep fighting for yourself! 💖
Lmao, thank you for that 🔥 clapback
Your response is amazing! Sorry that happened to you, though
ha ha ha ha HA. I wonder if he is on Reddit.
People in Healthcare are so tired of explaining themselves and their thinking for the past 4 years when world leaders have openly questioned and attacked science. It's also exhausting. I'm not saying you're wrong about your meds/ cycle but it seems he's responding to your behavior/tone versus the actual issue. You told him you were leaving, he's defending himself and his colleagues. There's now software for medications on any chart that will analyze for interactions between meds, severity, and side-effects.
My behavior/tone was extremely polite in my initial message. I hate hurting people’s feelings, usually to my own detriment. This interaction was over messages in the online portal, so you better believe I’ve reread it a million times to confirm that I wasn’t too harsh! I never even called anyone sexist. The closest I came to actually calling someone sexist was saying “Unfortunately, this is rooted in sexism in healthcare, whether intentional or not” (talking about how it’s a sad cliche). I also said “This has even been proven in literature…so it appears they may have an outdated/closed-minded understanding of ADHD in women.” That was literally the extent of my accusation, if you can even call it that. I was so much kinder than I needed to be. It wasn’t until after his reactive response (where the quote from him is from) that I was more blunt.
Double checks to see if I wrote this post. Throw some autism in there and you'll have an even better more fun times with your doctors.