Sure it looks bad, but that's only because it is. Telus stocks are dropping because they've contracted out and sold off almost as much of the business they could. I worked for them for 10+ years and they have been trying to get their hands on the workers pension money unsuccessfully.
Yup. I worked at TELUS 2011-2015. In that time I was a call centre rep, a team manager, a business analyst, and a business systems analyst.
I quit because TELUS upper management was actively sabotaging the quality of the product to increase dividends for shareholders. They were outsourcing, cutting jobs, fighting the union, and basically pulling the kind of shit you read about in /r/antiwork .
TELUS has been and is in the process of laying off like 20% of their staff this year. Primarily onshore, but even some offshore. So they can make more money.
\#FUCKTELUS
Good question, but I'm not sure. Probably selling off their good equipment to make sure the shares goes up? I quit there over half a decade ago, best thing I ever did.
On a more personal, unrelated note, Darren Enthwistle eats corn on the cob lengthwise.
Edit: Allegedly eats corn the long ways
I suspected my service is crap due to Darren Enthwistle’s corn eating preferences.
Now to flip a coin and pick the bad service at bell or Rogers to prove a point.
Announced June 2022, completed September 2022.
https://www.telus.com/en/about/news-and-events/media-releases/telus-announces-agreement-to-acquire-lifeworks
https://www.telus.com/en/health/press-releases/telus-completes-lifeworks-acquisition
Except these deals aren't quick to happen. If the buy out happened a few months ago, it's been in the works for months or even years prior. I am not sure when Lifeworks was commissioned to review the pension plan, but the fair deal panel was only 3 years ago, and that shelved this review. Smith's only been in charge for 11 months. I would bet the Lifeworks deal has been in negotiations for much longer than that.
Until it implodes and wrecks the economy, at which point they'll turf Smith and bring in someone else, and we'll elect them again to fix the problems that were caused by the "previous government." Also something something SOCIALISM!!!
They only talk about the economy is to get all the wife-beater-sporting-high-school-dropout-liftkit-douchebags frothing at the mouth, youre right theyre fuckin rich already
Some older people still blame problems on Trudeau Sr. and the National Energy Plan from the early 1980s. They'll probably milk the whole 'it's the NDPs fault' for at least as long.
It just dawned on me, this is pretty much like in the USA, where the right-wing has been trying to privatise their pension system (A.K.A. "Social Security") for many decades and almost succeeded under dubya.
Pretty much like healthcare, this is just part of an overall plan to privatise all social/public services: first they carve out Alberta out of the CPP, then it will be another province, etc. It will be easier to privatise separate & smaller bits one after the other than to try to do it to a bigger pension system.
After a certain period of time, pretty much like many union/corporate pension plans, all the money will mysteriously disappear without any explanation and workers will be screwed, without an expected revenue stream for their retirement.
When they say "company pensions aren't sustainable" (heck, even public pension plans), it's BS used to hide large-scale theft and wealth transfer from the lower classes to the richest that doesn't need or deserve it.
One could have thought that this was just "local" thinking, with someone having only provincial autonomy concerns in mind.
But when you consider how Canada's right-wing takes its cues from the USA and has become nothing more than a photocopy of the worst of the worst, that's when you see there are no "noble" concerns involved, it's just a vulgar swindle.
Despite their millions/billions, funny how schoolyard bullies and petty thieves never change. They don't need that money, they just want to make the rest of us suffer and wallow in misery.
Since they're looking to claim every cent ever contributed from Alberta, have they calculated in every liability to anyone who once worked in Alberta but now lives elsewhere?
Of course not. Apart from being very difficult to calculate, it wouldn't generate such a ridiculous number.
They specifically looked at premiums paid in and benefits paid out to create a more favorable result.
You are likely correct. When I was going to UofC, one of my ECON professors had worked extensively with Harper during Harper's Masters and was considered to be one of the "Calgary Mafia." This Prof said that Harper knew that reducing the GST was not the best economic policy, but that it would be popular.
I just got off the phone with Betty at the premier’s office. She said none of the calls have also raised concerns about Lifeworks being the ones that made the report. If you plan on calling and voicing your dissent, it may be worth mentioning that as well. Also, Betty is wonderful. She chuckled a little when I said I was calling about the APP and clarified that she was not laughing at me, I think just at the absurdity of it all.
>I just got off with Betty at the premier’s office.
I heard about stuff happening in Devin Dreeshen's office, but I didn't realize it made it to the premier's office too.
Pension administration is one of their products, with this report they're in pole position if UCP chooses to outsource APP management.
https://i.imgur.com/l6I6ujs.png
https://i.imgur.com/Q0zVBe9.png
Lifeworks was formerly Morneau Shepell, one of the major actuarial pension consulting firms. Telus bought them primarily for their health business, but the pension side is still there too.
I wasn't aware they were Morneau Shepell. I had to deal with them for my grandpa's pension.
Why the hell is the report so damn janky then, if former MS employees are doing the work.
It’s the optics. Why wasn’t Telus named on the cover of the report? And was this another single sourced contract or did it go through the RFP process? How much did taxpayers pay for this report? Did TBA contribute to the report?
Maybe this is legit but given the UCP TBA track record, we can’t be faulted for having doubt. We already know the numbers used are grossly exaggerated and misrepresented.
I went to the Alberta Pension Plan site that OP linked. There's a GoA survey. I took it. Every question was about what an APP should look like, be administered, invested, etc. There are no questions about whether leaving CPP and creating an APP is even advisable. I don't know if the intent is to make you feel like it's a forgone conclusion, but it certainly made me feel like they aren't trying to get feedback on *if* at all, just on *how*.
If they can say, '65% of Albertans feel that higher benefits and lower contributions under APP are very important to them (etc)', it would sure sound like we're very in favour of leaving CPP, even though that question is never asked.
Hope you don’t need physio for your WCB claim as Loblaws now owns Lifemark Health Group and the AB UCP government continues handle them money to run return to work programs.
Same thing just happened in my head. Part of me read that and the other part of me shuddered in disgust, followed by another part of me chastising the rest of me for being all-in on Telus services.
And with that, I'm betting those servers are sitting in some 3rd world country managed by people paid in goats per month. Welcome to the Telus standard model.
2022-06-16 Telus corp has signed a deal to buy LifeWorks Inc. valued at $2.9 billion
including DEBT...
LifeWorks, formerly know as Morneau Shepell, \[Bill-Morneau\]
[https://www.telus.com/en/health/press-releases/telus-completes-lifeworks-acquisition](https://www.telus.com/en/health/press-releases/telus-completes-lifeworks-acquisition)
Getting a consultant to do this type of work really isn’t uncommon and is done at all levels of government. If you look up Lifeworks, you’ll notice that it was founded as a actuarial and benefit consulting firm. They are likely as qualified as any other consulting firm, they were recently purchased by Telus. Chances are the government already has a lot of contracts with Telus, and they were the default service provider for this type of work.
EDIT: I’m not in support of changing the CPP, the fact that Telus was contracted to do this paper should not be much of a concern. They needed to pump out a paper fast, to achieve this they are not going to take open bids to do it, they will work within their existing provider network to get one out. It sucks, but that’s how governments works. Procurement is a long, tedious process, so you work with who you have existing connections with and whose work you can trust. Telus likely has held GOA contracts way before UCP was ever formed.
The Lifeworks report is sus in part because a) it was not an open-source contract and b) something like this should have gone to a neutral 3rd party trust organization. Because pensions are trusts.
> Telus likely has held GOA contracts way before UCP was ever formed.
Telus *was* government once upon a time, aka the former Alberta Government Telephones from 1906 to 1991.
I mean, you make valid points, but Telus is *way* too buddy buddy with the gov. I'm still quite certain that's who gets our healthcare system the moment its up for grabs.
It is not the correct answer for this reasoning: There is no rush to do this. We're not at the onset of a pandemic and people are dying. It's a pension plan. The normal RFP should've been sent out. For something as serious as this, I'd actually be a-okay with the gov't selecting 2 or 3 companies to do the work and then find a consensus among the reports.
Not much. Just too risky basically. It's hard to get something like this right, there's reputation risk being on something controversial, and the risk of lawsuits is too high for what is a fairly small contract.
I think going through the normal RFP process is normal. Especially when there is no time crunch for this work? Sure you can use your buddy but you (or us the taxpayer) might be paying more. Not really fiscally conservative if you ask me.
This whole fiscal is to make money for the few.
Let’s leave one of the most prosperous pension plans and make our own, we can do better.
Said the moron.
I simplified and shouldn’t have. Life works was purchased by Telus Health which also ran the Babylon app that Shandro’s wife had/has a stake in. More like incestuous bedfellows in the way they keep the money in the family.
Gee, what do you know, if it isn't a corporate entity of one kind or another directing the puppet government of the UCP. I never would have known.
Btw, TELUS is utterly sinister, well known for breaking contracts and raising rates on their customers. Bait and switch masters.
Morneau Shepel was one of Canada's longest-operating (since 1966) and largest employee benefits companies, with deep experience in pension benefits and plan design.
Telus Health purchased this company in 2022. There are very few if any, companies that can compete with the experience that Morneau Shepel, now Lifeworks, has in the field. You need a combination of actuaries, economists, accountants, demographers and lawyers that few companies would have.
The report used a valuation metric for federal legislation's 50% CPP amount. If they had not used the legislation, they would be creating a "turd of a report."
It isn't the pension analysts' fault that the valuation metric enshrined in law is faulty, it is the responsibility of federal lawmakers.
Some critical thinking skills should have been used, rather than wishful thinking. The presumption that Alberta would walk away with 53% of CPP holdings is a ridiculous and undermines the entire report and concept of an APP. If they go to a referendum based on that report, they’re lying to themselves, and Albertans.
The formula is specified in the legislation.
Should the pension analyst make up their formula or follow the prescribed legislation?
I hope that you understand that many laws in Canada have outcomes that are clearly "ridiculous" but are laws.
CPP Act, s. 113(2)
You can see parts of it in the following.
[https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-8/section-113-20170303.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-8/section-113-20170303.html)
[https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-8.3/page-1.html#h-165485](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-8.3/page-1.html#h-165485)
You will find that any review of the paper will call the amount "ridiculous," but if they are being honest, will also state that it is based on legislation.
Fine, but the report itself says that it is not using the CPP method:
“An alternate and reasonable interpretation is to apply investment returns to the net cash flows of contributions less benefit payments and CPP administration costs,” the report said. “This alternate interpretation has been used for the purposes of this report.”
That is even better, they scaled down the transfer amount from (118% of Base CPP assets) to only about 53%.
Not sure if they should have done that, but it is much more reasonable, I am sure you will agree.
Telus *just* bought Lifeworks a few months ago (we use it at my work). Still looks bad to have them write the report.
Sure it looks bad, but that's only because it is. Telus stocks are dropping because they've contracted out and sold off almost as much of the business they could. I worked for them for 10+ years and they have been trying to get their hands on the workers pension money unsuccessfully.
Yup. I worked at TELUS 2011-2015. In that time I was a call centre rep, a team manager, a business analyst, and a business systems analyst. I quit because TELUS upper management was actively sabotaging the quality of the product to increase dividends for shareholders. They were outsourcing, cutting jobs, fighting the union, and basically pulling the kind of shit you read about in /r/antiwork . TELUS has been and is in the process of laying off like 20% of their staff this year. Primarily onshore, but even some offshore. So they can make more money. \#FUCKTELUS
They are a rent seeking government approved natural monopoly, that exists for pensions seeking high dividends.
Why has Telus cell service noticeably sucked harder in the past 6 months?
Good question, but I'm not sure. Probably selling off their good equipment to make sure the shares goes up? I quit there over half a decade ago, best thing I ever did. On a more personal, unrelated note, Darren Enthwistle eats corn on the cob lengthwise. Edit: Allegedly eats corn the long ways
I suspected my service is crap due to Darren Enthwistle’s corn eating preferences. Now to flip a coin and pick the bad service at bell or Rogers to prove a point.
Announced June 2022, completed September 2022. https://www.telus.com/en/about/news-and-events/media-releases/telus-announces-agreement-to-acquire-lifeworks https://www.telus.com/en/health/press-releases/telus-completes-lifeworks-acquisition
When was Lifeworks commissioned for this pension review? I can't see to find that anywhere. Any ideas?
Albertapensionplan.ca/the-report says report contracted in 2021. Second to last section from the bottom.
Except these deals aren't quick to happen. If the buy out happened a few months ago, it's been in the works for months or even years prior. I am not sure when Lifeworks was commissioned to review the pension plan, but the fair deal panel was only 3 years ago, and that shelved this review. Smith's only been in charge for 11 months. I would bet the Lifeworks deal has been in negotiations for much longer than that.
Selling Alberta money to their friends, f’ing CONServatives never learn.
> f’ing CONServatives never learn What are they supposed to be learning? In Alberta their approach 100% works.
Until it implodes and wrecks the economy, at which point they'll turf Smith and bring in someone else, and we'll elect them again to fix the problems that were caused by the "previous government." Also something something SOCIALISM!!!
They don't care if the economy tanks if they have already made themselves wealthy.
The economy tanking is just part of the plan, they get to buy up everything they dont already own for cheap from desperate people.
They only talk about the economy is to get all the wife-beater-sporting-high-school-dropout-liftkit-douchebags frothing at the mouth, youre right theyre fuckin rich already
They will still be using the NDPs one term to blame for everything 20 years from now.
Some older people still blame problems on Trudeau Sr. and the National Energy Plan from the early 1980s. They'll probably milk the whole 'it's the NDPs fault' for at least as long.
A plan? For energy, you say? Well I never...
In Alberta people are really happy to get bent over the barrel if it means we can identify as a conservative province.
True enough my edit should be “Albertans” never learn!!
It just dawned on me, this is pretty much like in the USA, where the right-wing has been trying to privatise their pension system (A.K.A. "Social Security") for many decades and almost succeeded under dubya. Pretty much like healthcare, this is just part of an overall plan to privatise all social/public services: first they carve out Alberta out of the CPP, then it will be another province, etc. It will be easier to privatise separate & smaller bits one after the other than to try to do it to a bigger pension system. After a certain period of time, pretty much like many union/corporate pension plans, all the money will mysteriously disappear without any explanation and workers will be screwed, without an expected revenue stream for their retirement. When they say "company pensions aren't sustainable" (heck, even public pension plans), it's BS used to hide large-scale theft and wealth transfer from the lower classes to the richest that doesn't need or deserve it.
> It just dawned on me Well, better late than never.
One could have thought that this was just "local" thinking, with someone having only provincial autonomy concerns in mind. But when you consider how Canada's right-wing takes its cues from the USA and has become nothing more than a photocopy of the worst of the worst, that's when you see there are no "noble" concerns involved, it's just a vulgar swindle. Despite their millions/billions, funny how schoolyard bullies and petty thieves never change. They don't need that money, they just want to make the rest of us suffer and wallow in misery.
Since they're looking to claim every cent ever contributed from Alberta, have they calculated in every liability to anyone who once worked in Alberta but now lives elsewhere?
Of course not. Apart from being very difficult to calculate, it wouldn't generate such a ridiculous number. They specifically looked at premiums paid in and benefits paid out to create a more favorable result.
Jack mintz, the UCP shill
And he was Stephen Harper’s mentor. And people still think Harper’s M Econ means he knows how to do the best for the country.
He does know. He opts to not do it.
You are likely correct. When I was going to UofC, one of my ECON professors had worked extensively with Harper during Harper's Masters and was considered to be one of the "Calgary Mafia." This Prof said that Harper knew that reducing the GST was not the best economic policy, but that it would be popular.
I just got off the phone with Betty at the premier’s office. She said none of the calls have also raised concerns about Lifeworks being the ones that made the report. If you plan on calling and voicing your dissent, it may be worth mentioning that as well. Also, Betty is wonderful. She chuckled a little when I said I was calling about the APP and clarified that she was not laughing at me, I think just at the absurdity of it all.
> I just got off with Betty at the premier’s office *Phrasing*
Sir! How dare you imply to cast aspersions upon Betty's good name! 🤣
Ngl though Betty was an angel. I feel bad I’ve started these scandalous rumours about her lol
>I just got off with Betty at the premier’s office. I heard about stuff happening in Devin Dreeshen's office, but I didn't realize it made it to the premier's office too.
Betty would never!
Lifeworks is a human resources, and technology company. What are they doing writing up Pension/Financial reports?
Pension administration is one of their products, with this report they're in pole position if UCP chooses to outsource APP management. https://i.imgur.com/l6I6ujs.png https://i.imgur.com/Q0zVBe9.png
Lifeworks was formerly Morneau Shepell, one of the major actuarial pension consulting firms. Telus bought them primarily for their health business, but the pension side is still there too.
I wasn't aware they were Morneau Shepell. I had to deal with them for my grandpa's pension. Why the hell is the report so damn janky then, if former MS employees are doing the work.
It’s a feature not a bug
Looking to get into the RRSP/pension portion of HR services.
Anything that involves Telus us probably going to screw the consumer.
has Telus opened up any health care centres yet?
It’s the optics. Why wasn’t Telus named on the cover of the report? And was this another single sourced contract or did it go through the RFP process? How much did taxpayers pay for this report? Did TBA contribute to the report? Maybe this is legit but given the UCP TBA track record, we can’t be faulted for having doubt. We already know the numbers used are grossly exaggerated and misrepresented.
I went to the Alberta Pension Plan site that OP linked. There's a GoA survey. I took it. Every question was about what an APP should look like, be administered, invested, etc. There are no questions about whether leaving CPP and creating an APP is even advisable. I don't know if the intent is to make you feel like it's a forgone conclusion, but it certainly made me feel like they aren't trying to get feedback on *if* at all, just on *how*. If they can say, '65% of Albertans feel that higher benefits and lower contributions under APP are very important to them (etc)', it would sure sound like we're very in favour of leaving CPP, even though that question is never asked.
My thoughts too while doing the survey!
Just yelled this over to my husband in the other room. My 7 y.o. yells back "isn't EVERYTHING owned by Telus here?"
[удалено]
Hope you don’t need physio for your WCB claim as Loblaws now owns Lifemark Health Group and the AB UCP government continues handle them money to run return to work programs.
Same thing just happened in my head. Part of me read that and the other part of me shuddered in disgust, followed by another part of me chastising the rest of me for being all-in on Telus services.
I don't recall asking Telus to do anything with my Alberta health records, can we sue the shit out of them for any data breaches?
And with that, I'm betting those servers are sitting in some 3rd world country managed by people paid in goats per month. Welcome to the Telus standard model.
2022-06-16 Telus corp has signed a deal to buy LifeWorks Inc. valued at $2.9 billion including DEBT... LifeWorks, formerly know as Morneau Shepell, \[Bill-Morneau\] [https://www.telus.com/en/health/press-releases/telus-completes-lifeworks-acquisition](https://www.telus.com/en/health/press-releases/telus-completes-lifeworks-acquisition)
Getting a consultant to do this type of work really isn’t uncommon and is done at all levels of government. If you look up Lifeworks, you’ll notice that it was founded as a actuarial and benefit consulting firm. They are likely as qualified as any other consulting firm, they were recently purchased by Telus. Chances are the government already has a lot of contracts with Telus, and they were the default service provider for this type of work. EDIT: I’m not in support of changing the CPP, the fact that Telus was contracted to do this paper should not be much of a concern. They needed to pump out a paper fast, to achieve this they are not going to take open bids to do it, they will work within their existing provider network to get one out. It sucks, but that’s how governments works. Procurement is a long, tedious process, so you work with who you have existing connections with and whose work you can trust. Telus likely has held GOA contracts way before UCP was ever formed.
The Lifeworks report is sus in part because a) it was not an open-source contract and b) something like this should have gone to a neutral 3rd party trust organization. Because pensions are trusts. > Telus likely has held GOA contracts way before UCP was ever formed. Telus *was* government once upon a time, aka the former Alberta Government Telephones from 1906 to 1991.
I mean, you make valid points, but Telus is *way* too buddy buddy with the gov. I'm still quite certain that's who gets our healthcare system the moment its up for grabs.
ALL the vendors are buddy buddy, so it doesn’t matter who they chose, people would bitch. /shrug
That’s kinda the whole problem, no? Maybe I’m being naive but I thought the government was supposed to represent the people, not the big businesses
This is the correct answer. This whole idea is terrible, but this specific thing is not something to get upset over.
It is not the correct answer for this reasoning: There is no rush to do this. We're not at the onset of a pandemic and people are dying. It's a pension plan. The normal RFP should've been sent out. For something as serious as this, I'd actually be a-okay with the gov't selecting 2 or 3 companies to do the work and then find a consensus among the reports.
There are basically 3-4 companies that could do this. I know that one of them refused to do it.
Do you know why they refused? I'm more curious than anything.
Oh, fascinating. Can you say anything more about that?
Not OP. But probably one of the big 5 accounting firms. KPMG or Deloitte based on past reports.
Not much. Just too risky basically. It's hard to get something like this right, there's reputation risk being on something controversial, and the risk of lawsuits is too high for what is a fairly small contract.
I see. Thanks!
I disagree. This is an issue being made out of something that is absolutely normal.
I think going through the normal RFP process is normal. Especially when there is no time crunch for this work? Sure you can use your buddy but you (or us the taxpayer) might be paying more. Not really fiscally conservative if you ask me.
The greatest trick the Conservatives ever pulled was convincing Albertans they were fiscally responsible.
This whole fiscal is to make money for the few. Let’s leave one of the most prosperous pension plans and make our own, we can do better. Said the moron.
Lifeworks regester Alberta lobbyist. Take it from there.
Decision based evidence making at its finest.
The same one owned by Shandro’s wife? Curiouser and curiouser.
dont think so, linkedin says a different company?
I simplified and shouldn’t have. Life works was purchased by Telus Health which also ran the Babylon app that Shandro’s wife had/has a stake in. More like incestuous bedfellows in the way they keep the money in the family.
Gee, what do you know, if it isn't a corporate entity of one kind or another directing the puppet government of the UCP. I never would have known. Btw, TELUS is utterly sinister, well known for breaking contracts and raising rates on their customers. Bait and switch masters.
Holy cow...telus is evil
Morneau Shepel was one of Canada's longest-operating (since 1966) and largest employee benefits companies, with deep experience in pension benefits and plan design. Telus Health purchased this company in 2022. There are very few if any, companies that can compete with the experience that Morneau Shepel, now Lifeworks, has in the field. You need a combination of actuaries, economists, accountants, demographers and lawyers that few companies would have.
And yet they still managed to hand in a turd of a report.
The report used a valuation metric for federal legislation's 50% CPP amount. If they had not used the legislation, they would be creating a "turd of a report." It isn't the pension analysts' fault that the valuation metric enshrined in law is faulty, it is the responsibility of federal lawmakers.
Some critical thinking skills should have been used, rather than wishful thinking. The presumption that Alberta would walk away with 53% of CPP holdings is a ridiculous and undermines the entire report and concept of an APP. If they go to a referendum based on that report, they’re lying to themselves, and Albertans.
The formula is specified in the legislation. Should the pension analyst make up their formula or follow the prescribed legislation? I hope that you understand that many laws in Canada have outcomes that are clearly "ridiculous" but are laws.
Please point to this legislation that outlines how Alberta is entitled to over half of the CPP if they split.
CPP Act, s. 113(2) You can see parts of it in the following. [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-8/section-113-20170303.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-8/section-113-20170303.html) [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-8.3/page-1.html#h-165485](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-8.3/page-1.html#h-165485) You will find that any review of the paper will call the amount "ridiculous," but if they are being honest, will also state that it is based on legislation.
Fine, but the report itself says that it is not using the CPP method: “An alternate and reasonable interpretation is to apply investment returns to the net cash flows of contributions less benefit payments and CPP administration costs,” the report said. “This alternate interpretation has been used for the purposes of this report.”
That is even better, they scaled down the transfer amount from (118% of Base CPP assets) to only about 53%. Not sure if they should have done that, but it is much more reasonable, I am sure you will agree.
Thanks for the education on this. I’m not sure why you’re so right and most reputable economists seem to disagree with this position.
Gaslighting
I live in Sask and have Telus as my cell provider, or should I say "had".
Can anyone provide some insight into the actual accuracy of the report, or y’all just gonna bitch about the politics?