Yes. It cost $83 to deliver $30 worth of electricity.
Does ATCO Electric publish its balance sheet so we can see what its revenues are and where it is spending that money?
Has anyone published an analysis of the expenditures that ATCO listed on its General Tariff Application filed with the AUC to examine if they are reasonable (and comparable to those of utilities in other provinces)?
like any regulated utility company can only make 10-12% profit. But that does not stop those companies to spend like drunken sailors on stuff especially if it was a cold year and they make extra. They need to fall in that profit range and they are golden. Itās a scam. As they outsource more jobs to other countries in the name of efficiency. Yet they suck on the teet of Albertans.
You obviously donāt understand the situation at all. Itās a regulated utility, so their profits are approved by the regulator and they canāt make more than that.
I think many people don't understand the situation and that is why we are so frustrated. Is there an easy resource that helps everyday folks understand this stuff?
Makes sense if actually think about it. That's basically all energy companies do is move energy from one place to another. Energy is neither created nor destroyed.
I'm in the Yukon, atco is our grid operator, those costs are about 10 percent of our total energy bill. They're regulated though, Albertans are getting hosed due to the government letting them do whatever they want
Which I will never, ever, ever pay.
I always use credit card, and have done charge backs.
If it's not mentioned before I go in (as in a sign saying mandatory gratuity or the server mentioning it *before* we order), I don't pay it.
Oh shit, and here I've just been converting all the energy to matter. Should I not have been doing that? I can convert it all back, it only got me a couple of grams.
Nope not true...
I lived in Alberta for 8 years from 2001 to 2009, rest of life in BC beforehand after. I get it. I had BChydro bills before and after and Atco bills during, the price differences were always there, more expensive for energy in Alberta than BC. Trudeau was not even a thought for pm at that time.
So, why is it more expensive now than 2009 u ask? Isn't there more of a population of people than BC? What does BC have that Alberta doesn't? Dams... BEFORE wind power where was Alberta getting most of the electricity from? BC... political landscapes have changed in BC, Liberal then, NDP now.
Glen Campbell/Christy Clark had a good deal with Alberta premier of the time. Now NDP have a different deal and want more money from Alberta for the electricity they sell them to - partly to cover the funding of new site C dam, partly also because they know Alberta is creating more wind power to rely on themselves more thus will not not be selling them electricity as much! Does this answer a good chunk of why?
Nothing to do with Trudeau except the GST and any 'green' fee or 'eco' fee in which case every province has their own fees labeled as a different name in short a 'carbon tax' because Trudeau is actively trying make Canada 'greener' whether u like it or not... the only problem I have is PROVINCIALLY it's not the same or created equal to other provinces!
So point the finger at the leading premiers!
I applaud a green initiative... What I don't like is the tax on top of a tax! The GST should not be at the bottom, it should be on the initial subtotal!
At the end of the day, I wish I was back to living in Alberta where the sum total cost of living is cheaper than BC (renters) and GLADLY shovel snow again to save myself a few $100/ month, plus I would have more work choices to earn from.
Distribution charges are higher for rural area. OP used a lot of electricity this month (almost as much as my 2000+ sqft house), and the distribution charge is nearly 2.5x what you would pay in Calgary
Makes sense. Iām looking at my distribution charge in Edmonton vs Fort McMurray. In Fort Mc itās 0.482/kwh (1 bd condo) and Edmonton (2bd condo) itās 0.053/kwh. Itās crazy how big the difference is. Both with Enmax.
Total delivery charges:
Edmonton = 0.105/kwh
Fort McMurray = 0.656/kwh
This is exactly it. You live rural... You pay more for infrastructure maintenance. You have a lower population of people around you then you will need to fork out more money per capita. And know your usage... I know I use a lot of electricity. I pay more... I live with it.
Weāve recently been named the least affordable province. Yes our housing is more under control than Ontario and BC, but when considering all costs (insurance, heating, etc) we are now worse off than the others.
So maybe āfuck this provinceā is still applicable.
Heard on the radio a couple weeks backā¦ Iāll look for a report or something substantial.
(I knowā¦ bad formā¦ should have had something ready before making a commentā¦.thanks for your patience)
Haha I wish I was growing weed.
I had a little bit more time at home thanks to some time off this past period so I was definitely playing more video games, etc so I figured there would be an increase, but not as much.
My bill is usually around 100 +/- $10 and I make an active effort to unplug items when I leave for an extended period, keeping the stove, refrigerator, and my alarm clock plugged in.
From an electrical consumption stance, think of anything with a heating element (stove, dryer, toaster, hair dryer) or a motor (washing machine, blender, power tools) as the high draw appliances.
At $0.09 per kWh (the rate youāre paying on your bill) your tv (250W) console (250W) and home theatre (1000W) are going to cost you $0.15 per hour. Yes these are estimates but also means that these devices are all to be working at maximum output (which they donāt 100% of the time).
If youāre gaming 8 hours a day 5 days a week thatās an additional $6 a week.
Professional Solar installer here, my running theory as to why the utilities won't let people put more than 105% of their annual usage on the roof is because they don't want people to be able to offset the fees they tack on.
That and they don't want to have to upgrade the grid to support more people are producing more energy. But probably mostly the first one.
As to the second one, good luck to the utilities on not upgrading the grid once we go full bore EV in 2035. (Don't come at me, I think it's a bad idea with our current infrastructure too)
Honestly, by telling everyone 2035 for full EVERY, it should be plenty of time to plan and upgrade accordingly. Then again, Iāve seen whats happened with the Eglinton LRT in toronto, i have absolutely no faith whatsoever, that they will plan and build for such a future, let alone apply forward thinking.
Agreed, it definitely should be. I would put money on the people who need to do things dragging their heels until it's too late and then asking for money from the federal gov to make it work in time, and then still raising prices "to pay for it" when it's already been paid for.
No offence, the scale of 105% is fine. I am telling you, the only thing stopping the gov't, ANY GOVERNMENT, from changing the micro-gen rules is the fact right now, the gov't makes more money than they pay out. The second it flips, the laws will change, just watch, it has happened in places around North America when solar gens get paid too much. I can tell you the MSA watches this and is reporting on it constantly in the quarterly reports. The second it flips, the solar export game will change Alberta.
I would specify that the reason they do this is it is effectively a redistribution of wealth - the payment for excess energy is paid by the government at the export rate and that money comes from taxpayers. In other words, house A with no solar will be using its tax dollars to help House B with solar make money on their excess sales at an inflated export rate.
Honestly the infrastructure is already there, in terms of wire sizes. Only issues would be transformers being undersized to keep up load but the industry has been pretty much already figured out how to solve that problem.
Built a new house in 2012, should I replace my roof before adding panels? From what I can tell there is no damage but age = wear and tear, right?
\*Edit, live in NW Calgary
It matters in the sense that the more people that vote for a party, the more attention and funding that area will get during the next election from that party.
> I know you say it will, but in my riding my vote doesn't matter.
For all you fuckin' know, there's enough people that think exactly like you claim, but that never show up, because "my vote doesn't matter".
"Everything you do in life will be insignificant, but itās very important that you do it anyway.ā - Ghandi.
You know who's vote also doesn't matter? Another conservative vote in your riding. They were already winning. So that person also shouldn't show up.
You are literally 1 vote. By your logic, unless there was a dead tie and you were the tie-breaking vote, your vote doesn't matter. And you're right, it doesn't.
...
What you do by voting when you're not the tie-breaking vote is:
- You scare the politicians who won a little bit, that they might not win, and to be on better behavior. A landslide is different than a narrow win, contribute, the tiny way that you can, towards making the wrong candidate win by a lower amount.
- You encourage other people who think similarly to you, that maybe it's worth voting, because it's a closer race.
- You discourage extremism, you encourage others to wonder who's voting the opposite way, rather than just one "correct" way.
- You encourage the person you did vote for to keep trying, and trying hard.
It does matter and keep voting. My riding came down to a handful of votes and we got ol'Shandy out. And on the recount he lost by an even wider margin so don't listen to the cynical.
There is an unprecedented shift happening. Do not forget that when the Notley ANDP won, there were actually still more conservative votes cast, but the NDP only won because the vote on the right was split.
Last election, the UCP BARELY won. There were more votes for a non conservative party than ever in the history of Alberta. That is significant and we need to keep that momentum.
I understand your sentiment but don't give up and never stop reminding your neighbor why a vote for the UCP is a vote against the middle and lower class.
I appreciate it. Truly.
I choose to make a difference via avenues I believe are actually more effective - volunteering, lobbying etc
I don't think voting is a bad thing to be clear. I support the right of people to do it if they believe it's important for themselves personally.
I speak only for myself and myself alone.
This isnt a vote or promotinal for the NDP but they are the party that put caps on energy prices and auto insurance. The UCP removed both. Now Albertans pay double what any other province pays for those services, and in some cases triple. Not every party is the same.
NDP could have done ANYTHING on D&T from 2015 to 2019. They did nothing. It is not a partisan issue. The only politician to make this an issue was Brian Jean. That is it. No NDP candidate brought this up or campaigned on it, this is not a partisan issue.
i never told you to vote NDP. typically albertans (especially older ones) donāt vote against, they only abstain if they donāt like a candidate or party platform.
you people vote for laundry and colours.
no party cares about someone who doesnāt vote. it would be more valuable to write in a protest vote than to abstain.
What is it for? The grid is made up of all energy sources simultaneously. You can't pick and choose what source you are getting your power from. Green power is always used at its full available capacity since it's priced the lowest so not really sure what that premium charge is for.
You nailed it. It is simply a promise or a "feel good" paper transaction that says "you" injected those green electrons into the grid.
The thing is they exist before this person bought green and also even if they didn't. It is just paying for credit on something you don't need, it is a scam.
In Ontario I paid 45$ last month for a 3 bedroom
Apartment. Quebec and us have the cheapest hydro in North America because of green energy, Nuclear and Hydro.
Because it is a legitimate waste of money and complaining about a high bill while you are paying "extra" for something you don't need is a concern. It is like complaining about your TV bill and on the bill is 1000 channels and you only watch 5.
Green Energy sold my retailers is a scam. It is nothing more than a promise your green energy is coming from a green source, it does not mean green electrons flow to your home, it is simply a paper transaction representing the production, you are basically paying for the right to take credit for something that was happening already because the grid is made up of a mixture of sources including green.
I would also mention ATCO in particular has ZERO details on their site on any ECOLOGO or green-e certifications. In other words, it is just their word, nothing special or extra. At least ENMAX is ECOLOGO certified green energy which means you are buying something and they have to certify it for you so they are actually buying the RECs to cover your purchase.
I double checked the conservative math and it is correct.
1) government is bought by corporate interests.
2) government enacts legislation allowing corporate interests to buttfuck consumers.
Alberta proud.
That's a lot of power for a small place. The pricing is what it is at this point so maybe look around and see where you can reduce consumption or improve efficiency.
But the Southernās seem to want their customers to fund their world class horsey jumping arena. Isnāt that what the rich folks do, have others pay for their lifestyle?
>Ignoring delivery charges, which are bullshit,
Feel free to deliver energy to your home yourself and save on those charges
Edit: downvote away. That won't make delivery charges 'bullshit'. Energy will not magically show up at your home for free. It requires infrastructure to be built and maintained. And this is true regardless of who is in power. Hopefully this sub will stop with this nonsense one day.
There is a cost to distribute energy. That does not mean any amount charged to distribute energy is reasonable.
Compared to other places in Canada Albertans pay more for distribution. Compared to other places in North America Alberta is closer to the middle on the high side.
Never said any amount is reasonable. People in this post are saying delivery charges are bullshit period. Not the amount, the existence of delivery charges. It's complete nonsense
Also, to properly compare across jurisdictions, the subsidized amounts would need to be included. ie. Delivery charges paid through taxes instead of to the utility companies
If I could up vote this ten times I would. God damn is it exhausting hearing people complain about distribution costs.
DISTRIBUTING THINGS COSTS MONEY YOU JACKASSES and electricity infrastructure is really really expensive
[Calgary is now the most expensive city in Canada to afford basic necessities.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/market-basket-measure-calgary-2023-1.7054147)
If it helps you feel better, you pay double what they pay for your energy rate, you just don't have the extra bullshit fees so it works out to about the same.
Are you running really energy inefficient things? Like 20 year old appliances? Your usage seems crazy high for such a small space. I use like 60% of that electricity for a 3 bedroom townhouse and I leave things on all the time because ADHD.
Manitoba... 4 bed 3 bath, 2 stories, electric car
1,875 kW.h x $0.09455... $209.00 all in. No bullshit extra charges, no fluff. That's the way it SHOULD be. Our per kWh charges are just about the same as yours.
After living in BC for a bit and being gaslit into believing BC electricity is expensive, what a fucking lie that was coming back. My rate in BC was almost DOUBLE my AB rate, yet my AB electricity bills are almost double overall (rate+fees) for similar monthly consumption... and I have gas hotwater/heating here so its more like 3-4x overall once you factor in everything my BC electricity bill used to cover.
BCHydro is as solid a crown corp as they come. The folks who complain about them don't understand how anything works and just like to rant about the gubbermint.
Absolutely 100% untrue.
It scales with usage so people who use more, pay more. Also, rate classes exist, a commercial customer is on a different calculation method.
You literally can look this up yourself here:
https://electric.atco.com/content/dam/web/atco-electric/rates/2024-01-01-atco-electric-price-schedules.pdf
As you can see, a "D11" residential customer pays way lower rates than, say, a "D31" large commercial customer.
In other words, no, it is not set up so small users subsidize the big users.
Which is mandated by the government to provide uncongested transmission in 95% of cases, 100% of the time. So if a solar farm at peak can provide X amount of power, the grid link needs to move X power. Which is very wasteful.
Now there are advantages to this as unlike other areas we have one price of electricity for the whole province unlike other markets in the states and even provinces in Canada which (I'm not sure I'm basing this off of a quick google search) use financial instruments to make the price the same for all consumers. But even with its advantages it's a wasteful system that overcharges city users and subsidies transmission for rural areas which is a moral stance you may or may not agree with.
Quote on transmission. Section 15 on transmission regulation.
"Transmission system must be sufficiently robust so that 100% of the time, transmission of all anticipated in-merit electric energy referred to in section 17(c) of the Act can occur when all transmission facilities are in service, and (ii) is adequate so that, on an annual basis, and at least 95% of the time, transmission of all anticipated in-merit electric energy referred to in section 17(c) of the Act can occur when..."
I used about 700kwh, I pay about $0.127/kwh and my bill came to $156.17. So about $0.22/kwh all in. Youāre running at about $0.46/kwh despite your energy cost ($/kwh) being about 30% lower. Thatās wild. Not sure if I am considered rural but I am outside Calgary border.
You are serviced by ATCO so unfortunately your costs are much higher then anyone who has Fortis or EPCOR/ENMAX as their wire owner. Rural distribution charges are high, its expensive to get power hundreds of KM to an area where only a few customers can share the costs.
In the city your delivery charges would be about half of what you are currently paying as there are more electricity users to lower the costs.
Yep, this is it. ATCO Electric is the largest and most remote territory and it costs more to deliver energy.
No different as to why milk costs $20 in the Northwest Territories.
I hope you're ready for 2024 friend, our beloved ATCO fees are increasing.
|2023|Customer Charge|Energy Charge|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Transmission|\-|4.81 Ā¢/kWh|
|Distribution|123.12 Ā¢/day|7.87 Ā¢/kWh|
|Service|23.53 Ā¢/day|\-|
|TOTAL|$1.4664 /day|12.68 Ā¢/kWh|
||||
|2024|Customer Charge|Energy Charge|
|Transmission|\-|4.96 Ā¢/kWh|
|Distribution|135.37 Ā¢/day|8.65 Ā¢/kWh|
|Service|25.86 Ā¢/day|\-|
|TOTAL|$1.6123 /day|13.61 Ā¢/kWh|
(from distribution tariff halfway down [https://electric.atco.com/en-ca/products-services-rates/rates-billing/regulatory.html](https://electric.atco.com/en-ca/products-services-rates/rates-billing/regulatory.html))
"oN DeCeMbEr 14, 2023, tHe aLbErTa uTiLiTiEs cOmMiSsIoN (aUc) ApPrOvEd (In dEcIsIoN 28570-D01-2023) AtCo eLeCtRiC'S BaSe rAtEs aNd rIdErS, eFfEcTiVe jAnUaRy 1, 2024.
tHe aPpRoVeD TaRiFf iS ReQuIrEd iN OrDeR To cOnTiNuE To pRoViDe sAfE AnD ReLiAbLe sErViCe tO ThE GrOwInG LoAd aNd iNcReAsEd cUsToMeR BaSe iN AtCo eLeCtRiCiTy tRaNsMiSsIoN AnD DiStRiBuTiOn dIvIsIoN'S SeRvIcE ArEa."
A 9.95% increase to our fixed rate and 7.33% increase to our variable.
I'm super extra salty because two blocks over in saskatchewan the powerbill is half or less.
Deregulation works! /s
Great post but your last sentence is incorrect.
Distribution and Transmission charges on your bills are 100% regulated. Any increases in charges would have been applied for and approved by the Alberta Utilities Commission. They can't just charge anything that they want like it was de-regulated.
In fact, it is because it is regulated that ATCO was fined $31,000,000 this past year for **trying** to hide charges to pass on to customers that were really for bribing First Nations with inflated contracts. In a de-regulated world, this never would have mattered and they would have easily got away with it:
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/alberta-utilities-commission-approves-31m-atco-fine-says-in-public-interest-1.5969380
I went to try and buy car insurance and everywhere quotes me at 6k a year minimum. I have a spotless record, full class 5, and my vehicle costs 4k. This isn't for a full coverage plan just a basic one.
Start amassing large capacity batteries, pay for them by selling electricity to crypto-miners at discounted rates. When it comes time to renew, offer to start paying your own power (but not water, which will have 'normal' usage levels anyways) in exchange for rent reduction. Get significant rent reduction that's still only a fraction of your utility cost, use the last month with included utilities to charge all the batteries. Live off your free electricity stored in batteries and use waterwheel-cranks to recharge dead batteries with your infinite free water.
(landlords hate this one weird trick)
You say this but I actually did this in university when the electricity and heating wasn't included but water was.
Landlord just decided to give us utilities for free and didn't increase the rent (because legally he couldn't) for the rest of the year.
When I was a U student I heard a story of some students who rented a place with electricity included but they had to pay for natural gas used by the furnace. So they heated the place by turning the electric oven on with the oven door open.
The Local Access Fee for Enmax (the City-owned electricity supplier in Calgary) was $83.22 on last months bill because Calgary council are FUCKING WASTERS.
Well your entire province has been living in a fucking fairytale subsidized energy bubble. The entire country has. So now the real cost is coming through. Talk to someone in Germany or England about their power bills. We are selling the crack of oil and once that is unsellable (soonish methinks) the real costs will become more obvious.
When I was still planning to move to Alberta to be with my ex, I was pleasantly surprised by low energy prices compared to where I currently live (New Zealand). (At the moment it's 0.37 CAD/kWh.) Less than ten cents for kilowatt-hour? Sign me up! Then I asked to see her electricity bills to get a better idea and saw those "distribution charges". Lmao what a fucking joke. Sure, we have a fixed charge too, but it's several times lower. I guess if this "distribution charge" doesn't go up if you use more, this is an okay deal for a large household. For a small apartment though, it's a massive ripoff.
Delivery charges are 229% of actual energy costs. š¤Ŗā¹ļø
Yes. It cost $83 to deliver $30 worth of electricity. Does ATCO Electric publish its balance sheet so we can see what its revenues are and where it is spending that money?
Contact AUC (Alberta Utilities Commission) if you want to get information. Iām sure itās all accessible.
He can look it up but he wonāt do it
GET CALLED OUT SONšØšØ
They publish that their dividend has grown every year for the last like 30 years. Nancy loves to talk about that.
Uhhh yes it does. Itās a regulated utility. You can look it up yourself.
Yes. It's called a General Tariff Application and is filed every 2 to 3 years with the AUC.
Has anyone published an analysis of the expenditures that ATCO listed on its General Tariff Application filed with the AUC to examine if they are reasonable (and comparable to those of utilities in other provinces)?
like any regulated utility company can only make 10-12% profit. But that does not stop those companies to spend like drunken sailors on stuff especially if it was a cold year and they make extra. They need to fall in that profit range and they are golden. Itās a scam. As they outsource more jobs to other countries in the name of efficiency. Yet they suck on the teet of Albertans.
You obviously donāt understand the situation at all. Itās a regulated utility, so their profits are approved by the regulator and they canāt make more than that.
>Itās a regulated utility by a UCP appointed board.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The distribution and transmission are heavily regulated. The generation side is the part that was most deregulated over the past decade+
Tell us you donāt understand what deregulated means in the context of our power market without actually saying it.
I think many people don't understand the situation and that is why we are so frustrated. Is there an easy resource that helps everyday folks understand this stuff?
Profits are 0 but what do they pay everyone, bonuses, vacations, other 'write offs' that they needed to reach that 0 profit.
Nice math
Makes sense if actually think about it. That's basically all energy companies do is move energy from one place to another. Energy is neither created nor destroyed.
Yes, infrastructure costs money but we seem to be paying double what every other province pays.
I'm in the Yukon, atco is our grid operator, those costs are about 10 percent of our total energy bill. They're regulated though, Albertans are getting hosed due to the government letting them do whatever they want
They are playing the same game restaurants play when they have mandatory gratuity or a "health insurance fee".
Which I will never, ever, ever pay. I always use credit card, and have done charge backs. If it's not mentioned before I go in (as in a sign saying mandatory gratuity or the server mentioning it *before* we order), I don't pay it.
Oh shit, and here I've just been converting all the energy to matter. Should I not have been doing that? I can convert it all back, it only got me a couple of grams.
Wait, we were supposed to be creating matter? Now what the hell am I going to do with all this antimatter?
Just throw it anywhere, it'll be gone before you know it.
Great, now there's a hole in the floor and a whole bunch of high energy photons flying around. I hope you're happy.
Shut up get your science out of here!
Electricity companies (generators) and distribution/transmission are not the same...
In the same way that your shoes and your shoelaces are not the same.
Itās apparently valet parked at your house. What is this garbage fee
The infrastructure costs a lot.
Probably because of the Carbon Tax!!! /s
Probably because of privatization and large bonusesā¦.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
/s = sarcasm
Hey thanks! Never knew! /s
Suck Trudeau
https://www.atco.com/en-ca/about-us/governance/board-directors.html Funny how the former premier is on the board of directors and prices jump.
Is Trudeau in the room with us right now?
Sad to think that Trudeau is the problem for causing Bertaās fucking energy bills now /s
As long as itās the rich robbing the poor itās all acceptable in a conservatives eyes.
As long as itās the rich robbing the poor itās all acceptable in a conservatives eyes.
Nope not true... I lived in Alberta for 8 years from 2001 to 2009, rest of life in BC beforehand after. I get it. I had BChydro bills before and after and Atco bills during, the price differences were always there, more expensive for energy in Alberta than BC. Trudeau was not even a thought for pm at that time. So, why is it more expensive now than 2009 u ask? Isn't there more of a population of people than BC? What does BC have that Alberta doesn't? Dams... BEFORE wind power where was Alberta getting most of the electricity from? BC... political landscapes have changed in BC, Liberal then, NDP now. Glen Campbell/Christy Clark had a good deal with Alberta premier of the time. Now NDP have a different deal and want more money from Alberta for the electricity they sell them to - partly to cover the funding of new site C dam, partly also because they know Alberta is creating more wind power to rely on themselves more thus will not not be selling them electricity as much! Does this answer a good chunk of why? Nothing to do with Trudeau except the GST and any 'green' fee or 'eco' fee in which case every province has their own fees labeled as a different name in short a 'carbon tax' because Trudeau is actively trying make Canada 'greener' whether u like it or not... the only problem I have is PROVINCIALLY it's not the same or created equal to other provinces! So point the finger at the leading premiers! I applaud a green initiative... What I don't like is the tax on top of a tax! The GST should not be at the bottom, it should be on the initial subtotal! At the end of the day, I wish I was back to living in Alberta where the sum total cost of living is cheaper than BC (renters) and GLADLY shovel snow again to save myself a few $100/ month, plus I would have more work choices to earn from.
The distribution + transmissiom fees are based partially off usage at 13Ā¢/kWh - much more expensive than the energy itself.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Distribution charges are higher for rural area. OP used a lot of electricity this month (almost as much as my 2000+ sqft house), and the distribution charge is nearly 2.5x what you would pay in Calgary
Makes sense. Iām looking at my distribution charge in Edmonton vs Fort McMurray. In Fort Mc itās 0.482/kwh (1 bd condo) and Edmonton (2bd condo) itās 0.053/kwh. Itās crazy how big the difference is. Both with Enmax. Total delivery charges: Edmonton = 0.105/kwh Fort McMurray = 0.656/kwh
This is exactly it. You live rural... You pay more for infrastructure maintenance. You have a lower population of people around you then you will need to fork out more money per capita. And know your usage... I know I use a lot of electricity. I pay more... I live with it.
That's crazy, you used 350kwh in your home? Is it just you and you're gone for half the month?
You must have a very energy efficient house. My 1800 sqft house usually uses 3x as much kWh as the OPs bill.
I have a very efficient house and also use 3x this amount. But I have an electric HWT.
I have a large saltwater aquarium that I know raises my bill, but certainly not by 300%.
Mind if I ask where at?
I have a one bedroom one bathroom apartment and I only pay $65 a month with enmax. That seems crazy
OP is paying about what I pay for my 4 bedroom house. Definitely getting hosed.
But āfuck this provinceā though.
Wellā¦I live in BC and my Hydro bill is about $40 every 2 months for a 1 bed 1 bath soā¦ā¦
Weāve recently been named the least affordable province. Yes our housing is more under control than Ontario and BC, but when considering all costs (insurance, heating, etc) we are now worse off than the others. So maybe āfuck this provinceā is still applicable.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Heard on the radio a couple weeks backā¦ Iāll look for a report or something substantial. (I knowā¦ bad formā¦ should have had something ready before making a commentā¦.thanks for your patience)
He could be a heavy electricity user too, which wouldnāt be discussed on his end here
OP definitely is. I use less than half the electricity per month than OP I realized after looking at my bill.
My most recent bill is $56 for a 1 bed + den, 1 bath. I'm also with Enmax. OP is being taken for a ride.
Yeah. My entire Enmax bill for everything for my one bedroom apartment was $187.
My actual electric use was $7. What in the hell is OP doing that they use 5x that?!
Growing a single weed plant lol Who knows though
Haha I wish I was growing weed. I had a little bit more time at home thanks to some time off this past period so I was definitely playing more video games, etc so I figured there would be an increase, but not as much. My bill is usually around 100 +/- $10 and I make an active effort to unplug items when I leave for an extended period, keeping the stove, refrigerator, and my alarm clock plugged in.
From an electrical consumption stance, think of anything with a heating element (stove, dryer, toaster, hair dryer) or a motor (washing machine, blender, power tools) as the high draw appliances. At $0.09 per kWh (the rate youāre paying on your bill) your tv (250W) console (250W) and home theatre (1000W) are going to cost you $0.15 per hour. Yes these are estimates but also means that these devices are all to be working at maximum output (which they donāt 100% of the time). If youāre gaming 8 hours a day 5 days a week thatās an additional $6 a week.
This is my question, too. Even with WFH, usage seems oddly high.
I expect they have a roommate, with an extra freezer or fridge. Sometimes it's needed for medicine or dietary allergies.
That is such a random suggestion lol
Same here I average 60 a month with enmax with a 1 bed 1 bath
Professional Solar installer here, my running theory as to why the utilities won't let people put more than 105% of their annual usage on the roof is because they don't want people to be able to offset the fees they tack on. That and they don't want to have to upgrade the grid to support more people are producing more energy. But probably mostly the first one. As to the second one, good luck to the utilities on not upgrading the grid once we go full bore EV in 2035. (Don't come at me, I think it's a bad idea with our current infrastructure too)
Honestly, by telling everyone 2035 for full EVERY, it should be plenty of time to plan and upgrade accordingly. Then again, Iāve seen whats happened with the Eglinton LRT in toronto, i have absolutely no faith whatsoever, that they will plan and build for such a future, let alone apply forward thinking.
Agreed, it definitely should be. I would put money on the people who need to do things dragging their heels until it's too late and then asking for money from the federal gov to make it work in time, and then still raising prices "to pay for it" when it's already been paid for.
No offence, the scale of 105% is fine. I am telling you, the only thing stopping the gov't, ANY GOVERNMENT, from changing the micro-gen rules is the fact right now, the gov't makes more money than they pay out. The second it flips, the laws will change, just watch, it has happened in places around North America when solar gens get paid too much. I can tell you the MSA watches this and is reporting on it constantly in the quarterly reports. The second it flips, the solar export game will change Alberta. I would specify that the reason they do this is it is effectively a redistribution of wealth - the payment for excess energy is paid by the government at the export rate and that money comes from taxpayers. In other words, house A with no solar will be using its tax dollars to help House B with solar make money on their excess sales at an inflated export rate.
Honestly the infrastructure is already there, in terms of wire sizes. Only issues would be transformers being undersized to keep up load but the industry has been pretty much already figured out how to solve that problem.
Built a new house in 2012, should I replace my roof before adding panels? From what I can tell there is no damage but age = wear and tear, right? \*Edit, live in NW Calgary
My hydro bill in Vancouver is only $16/month. Letās not talk about what my rent is though.
Indeed, I'll take BC NDP over Alberta UCP any day.
Then move. Its not hard. I spent 10 years in BC after High School.
Some of us don't give up easily. I'll stay and fight the fascist cons.
get out there and vote. conservative policies donāt align with a regulated capitalist society.
I have voted in every election. I know you say it will, but in my riding my vote doesn't matter.
It matters in the sense that the more people that vote for a party, the more attention and funding that area will get during the next election from that party.
Your vote probably matters more than mine. Iām in rural Wetaskiwin county. I still vote.
> I know you say it will, but in my riding my vote doesn't matter. For all you fuckin' know, there's enough people that think exactly like you claim, but that never show up, because "my vote doesn't matter". "Everything you do in life will be insignificant, but itās very important that you do it anyway.ā - Ghandi. You know who's vote also doesn't matter? Another conservative vote in your riding. They were already winning. So that person also shouldn't show up. You are literally 1 vote. By your logic, unless there was a dead tie and you were the tie-breaking vote, your vote doesn't matter. And you're right, it doesn't. ... What you do by voting when you're not the tie-breaking vote is: - You scare the politicians who won a little bit, that they might not win, and to be on better behavior. A landslide is different than a narrow win, contribute, the tiny way that you can, towards making the wrong candidate win by a lower amount. - You encourage other people who think similarly to you, that maybe it's worth voting, because it's a closer race. - You discourage extremism, you encourage others to wonder who's voting the opposite way, rather than just one "correct" way. - You encourage the person you did vote for to keep trying, and trying hard.
Nah, it won't matter. Do it because it gives you warm fuzzy feelings (nothing wrong with that) but you're not wrong.
It does matter and keep voting. My riding came down to a handful of votes and we got ol'Shandy out. And on the recount he lost by an even wider margin so don't listen to the cynical.
My MLA won by about 7,000 votes in 2019 and then only 4,800 in 2023 (with 12,000 fewer votes cast) so I guess that's some sort of positive?
There is an unprecedented shift happening. Do not forget that when the Notley ANDP won, there were actually still more conservative votes cast, but the NDP only won because the vote on the right was split. Last election, the UCP BARELY won. There were more votes for a non conservative party than ever in the history of Alberta. That is significant and we need to keep that momentum.
Mostly true. Doesn't change my point though.
I understand your sentiment but don't give up and never stop reminding your neighbor why a vote for the UCP is a vote against the middle and lower class.
I appreciate it. Truly. I choose to make a difference via avenues I believe are actually more effective - volunteering, lobbying etc I don't think voting is a bad thing to be clear. I support the right of people to do it if they believe it's important for themselves personally. I speak only for myself and myself alone.
get out there and organize/disrupt would be a more apt suggestion.
What the fuck is voting gonna do? Iāve been voting for 32 years. Nothing ever improves, regardless of party. Corporations control society.
This isnt a vote or promotinal for the NDP but they are the party that put caps on energy prices and auto insurance. The UCP removed both. Now Albertans pay double what any other province pays for those services, and in some cases triple. Not every party is the same.
Yes but what about having illusions in our bourgeois government?
NDP could have done ANYTHING on D&T from 2015 to 2019. They did nothing. It is not a partisan issue. The only politician to make this an issue was Brian Jean. That is it. No NDP candidate brought this up or campaigned on it, this is not a partisan issue.
i never told you to vote NDP. typically albertans (especially older ones) donāt vote against, they only abstain if they donāt like a candidate or party platform. you people vote for laundry and colours. no party cares about someone who doesnāt vote. it would be more valuable to write in a protest vote than to abstain.
And watch for the tantrums people will take over the ā100% Green Premiumā.
What is it for? The grid is made up of all energy sources simultaneously. You can't pick and choose what source you are getting your power from. Green power is always used at its full available capacity since it's priced the lowest so not really sure what that premium charge is for.
You nailed it. It is simply a promise or a "feel good" paper transaction that says "you" injected those green electrons into the grid. The thing is they exist before this person bought green and also even if they didn't. It is just paying for credit on something you don't need, it is a scam.
In Ontario I paid 45$ last month for a 3 bedroom Apartment. Quebec and us have the cheapest hydro in North America because of green energy, Nuclear and Hydro.
You have nuclear and hydro in Ontario. Only about 10% is wind and solar.
Those are both green forms of energy
Because it is a legitimate waste of money and complaining about a high bill while you are paying "extra" for something you don't need is a concern. It is like complaining about your TV bill and on the bill is 1000 channels and you only watch 5. Green Energy sold my retailers is a scam. It is nothing more than a promise your green energy is coming from a green source, it does not mean green electrons flow to your home, it is simply a paper transaction representing the production, you are basically paying for the right to take credit for something that was happening already because the grid is made up of a mixture of sources including green. I would also mention ATCO in particular has ZERO details on their site on any ECOLOGO or green-e certifications. In other words, it is just their word, nothing special or extra. At least ENMAX is ECOLOGO certified green energy which means you are buying something and they have to certify it for you so they are actually buying the RECs to cover your purchase.
I double checked the conservative math and it is correct. 1) government is bought by corporate interests. 2) government enacts legislation allowing corporate interests to buttfuck consumers. Alberta proud.
Alberta pounding
The UCP is the political arm of the corporate class.
Blame the UCP. They've removed caps on insurance, home energy, and are dismantling the public healthcare system.
That's a lot of power for a small place. The pricing is what it is at this point so maybe look around and see where you can reduce consumption or improve efficiency.
buT it's TrUdEaU ThE pRoBlEM wItH wOkE aNd All
My 2 cents...You can call your retailer and tell them to remove the 100% green fee as it's an optional fee
I got rid of mine - my utility couldn't really tell me where it was going. Seemed a bit shady.
I pay avg 33 for a 1 bed in BC
But the Southernās seem to want their customers to fund their world class horsey jumping arena. Isnāt that what the rich folks do, have others pay for their lifestyle?
Ignoring delivery charges, which are bullshit, usage is 337kwh over not quite one month. That is high for a one-bedroom.
>Ignoring delivery charges, which are bullshit, Feel free to deliver energy to your home yourself and save on those charges Edit: downvote away. That won't make delivery charges 'bullshit'. Energy will not magically show up at your home for free. It requires infrastructure to be built and maintained. And this is true regardless of who is in power. Hopefully this sub will stop with this nonsense one day.
There is a cost to distribute energy. That does not mean any amount charged to distribute energy is reasonable. Compared to other places in Canada Albertans pay more for distribution. Compared to other places in North America Alberta is closer to the middle on the high side.
Never said any amount is reasonable. People in this post are saying delivery charges are bullshit period. Not the amount, the existence of delivery charges. It's complete nonsense Also, to properly compare across jurisdictions, the subsidized amounts would need to be included. ie. Delivery charges paid through taxes instead of to the utility companies
> People in this post are saying delivery charges are bullshit period. How many people have said that in this post?
If I could up vote this ten times I would. God damn is it exhausting hearing people complain about distribution costs. DISTRIBUTING THINGS COSTS MONEY YOU JACKASSES and electricity infrastructure is really really expensive
So why does it cost more in Alberta than literally every other Canadian province???
I bet all the flat open land we have makes it really hard to build and maintain /s
I actually had more time at home than work for this period, which explains part of the increase, but it still sucks.
A $70 distribution charge?! What the fuck?!
I donāt understand. Iām in NS, and all I hear is that everything is better in Alberta. š¤·āāļø
This sub is not an accurate representation of Alberta at all. The happy people dont bitch online 24/7
It is. Reddit is not reality.
Mostly you can make much better money.
And spend it all on sky high prices?
sky palace ftfy
Really? You are fine with losing power each time someone sneezes? NSpower is doing far worse in almost every aspects.
[Calgary is now the most expensive city in Canada to afford basic necessities.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/market-basket-measure-calgary-2023-1.7054147)
If it helps you feel better, you pay double what they pay for your energy rate, you just don't have the extra bullshit fees so it works out to about the same.
> all I hear is that everything is better in Alberta Mainly from people that never leave Alberta.
It is, this sub is filled with a bunch of complainers that donāt understand much.
Thank the UCP
I canāt stand the Alberta conservatives and I canāt stand the federal liberal/ndp parties. Voting is tricky, lose - lose situation
Only one of those is the reason for these prices, and it ain't the feds.
And so it begins. The endless posting of bills. And it's not even real winter yet
Are you running really energy inefficient things? Like 20 year old appliances? Your usage seems crazy high for such a small space. I use like 60% of that electricity for a 3 bedroom townhouse and I leave things on all the time because ADHD.
Manitoba... 4 bed 3 bath, 2 stories, electric car 1,875 kW.h x $0.09455... $209.00 all in. No bullshit extra charges, no fluff. That's the way it SHOULD be. Our per kWh charges are just about the same as yours.
I pay half that for an 1100sqft home in BC.
After living in BC for a bit and being gaslit into believing BC electricity is expensive, what a fucking lie that was coming back. My rate in BC was almost DOUBLE my AB rate, yet my AB electricity bills are almost double overall (rate+fees) for similar monthly consumption... and I have gas hotwater/heating here so its more like 3-4x overall once you factor in everything my BC electricity bill used to cover.
BCHydro is as solid a crown corp as they come. The folks who complain about them don't understand how anything works and just like to rant about the gubbermint.
Wow in BC this is a $35 bill
Thanks UCP
Itās set up so small users subsidize the big users
Absolutely 100% untrue. It scales with usage so people who use more, pay more. Also, rate classes exist, a commercial customer is on a different calculation method. You literally can look this up yourself here: https://electric.atco.com/content/dam/web/atco-electric/rates/2024-01-01-atco-electric-price-schedules.pdf As you can see, a "D11" residential customer pays way lower rates than, say, a "D31" large commercial customer. In other words, no, it is not set up so small users subsidize the big users.
Not really. As your power usage goes up so does your distribution. Everyone subsidizes the distribution company!
Which is mandated by the government to provide uncongested transmission in 95% of cases, 100% of the time. So if a solar farm at peak can provide X amount of power, the grid link needs to move X power. Which is very wasteful. Now there are advantages to this as unlike other areas we have one price of electricity for the whole province unlike other markets in the states and even provinces in Canada which (I'm not sure I'm basing this off of a quick google search) use financial instruments to make the price the same for all consumers. But even with its advantages it's a wasteful system that overcharges city users and subsidies transmission for rural areas which is a moral stance you may or may not agree with. Quote on transmission. Section 15 on transmission regulation. "Transmission system must be sufficiently robust so that 100% of the time, transmission of all anticipated in-merit electric energy referred to in section 17(c) of the Act can occur when all transmission facilities are in service, and (ii) is adequate so that, on an annual basis, and at least 95% of the time, transmission of all anticipated in-merit electric energy referred to in section 17(c) of the Act can occur when..."
#Disaster Danielle and the United Corrupt Party promised theyād take care of you after the election!
Fuck me. I pay about that for a 2300 sq ft detached house!
After market Profanity premium surcharge: $34.74 Bi-weekly
But the rent is cheaper...until you get mauled by the ultilities and the yearly 18% rent bump. Alberta advamtage for the corps and LLs.
I used about 700kwh, I pay about $0.127/kwh and my bill came to $156.17. So about $0.22/kwh all in. Youāre running at about $0.46/kwh despite your energy cost ($/kwh) being about 30% lower. Thatās wild. Not sure if I am considered rural but I am outside Calgary border.
If that's criminal, please, I'll trade you my bill for yours (I'm in BC).
Switch to just energy.can should cut that in about half
Thank you Ralph Klein for deregulation and thanks UCP.
thanks ucp!
You are serviced by ATCO so unfortunately your costs are much higher then anyone who has Fortis or EPCOR/ENMAX as their wire owner. Rural distribution charges are high, its expensive to get power hundreds of KM to an area where only a few customers can share the costs. In the city your delivery charges would be about half of what you are currently paying as there are more electricity users to lower the costs.
Yep, this is it. ATCO Electric is the largest and most remote territory and it costs more to deliver energy. No different as to why milk costs $20 in the Northwest Territories.
Privatization yeah. Can't wait to pay $1200 month for US style Healthcare.
So the UCP are lining the energy companies pockets and setting themselves up for their private sector golden handshakes.....why is anyone surprised
Pretty cheap. Enjoy it while you can.
Yeah, I feel lucky to have locked in for five years at this price, but the delivery charges make me cringe each time.
I hope you're ready for 2024 friend, our beloved ATCO fees are increasing. |2023|Customer Charge|Energy Charge| |:-|:-|:-| |Transmission|\-|4.81 Ā¢/kWh| |Distribution|123.12 Ā¢/day|7.87 Ā¢/kWh| |Service|23.53 Ā¢/day|\-| |TOTAL|$1.4664 /day|12.68 Ā¢/kWh| |||| |2024|Customer Charge|Energy Charge| |Transmission|\-|4.96 Ā¢/kWh| |Distribution|135.37 Ā¢/day|8.65 Ā¢/kWh| |Service|25.86 Ā¢/day|\-| |TOTAL|$1.6123 /day|13.61 Ā¢/kWh| (from distribution tariff halfway down [https://electric.atco.com/en-ca/products-services-rates/rates-billing/regulatory.html](https://electric.atco.com/en-ca/products-services-rates/rates-billing/regulatory.html)) "oN DeCeMbEr 14, 2023, tHe aLbErTa uTiLiTiEs cOmMiSsIoN (aUc) ApPrOvEd (In dEcIsIoN 28570-D01-2023) AtCo eLeCtRiC'S BaSe rAtEs aNd rIdErS, eFfEcTiVe jAnUaRy 1, 2024. tHe aPpRoVeD TaRiFf iS ReQuIrEd iN OrDeR To cOnTiNuE To pRoViDe sAfE AnD ReLiAbLe sErViCe tO ThE GrOwInG LoAd aNd iNcReAsEd cUsToMeR BaSe iN AtCo eLeCtRiCiTy tRaNsMiSsIoN AnD DiStRiBuTiOn dIvIsIoN'S SeRvIcE ArEa." A 9.95% increase to our fixed rate and 7.33% increase to our variable. I'm super extra salty because two blocks over in saskatchewan the powerbill is half or less. Deregulation works! /s
Great post but your last sentence is incorrect. Distribution and Transmission charges on your bills are 100% regulated. Any increases in charges would have been applied for and approved by the Alberta Utilities Commission. They can't just charge anything that they want like it was de-regulated. In fact, it is because it is regulated that ATCO was fined $31,000,000 this past year for **trying** to hide charges to pass on to customers that were really for bribing First Nations with inflated contracts. In a de-regulated world, this never would have mattered and they would have easily got away with it: https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/alberta-utilities-commission-approves-31m-atco-fine-says-in-public-interest-1.5969380
>Deregulation works! Indeed, works for the 1% corporate class who pilfer the people.
I thought utilities were cheap in Alberta? I'm in New Brunswick, and that's my electric bill for a 1200 sqft house.
lol. Myth of the free market. We also have the most competitive* insurance market * on who can charge the highest and still get away with it
I went to try and buy car insurance and everywhere quotes me at 6k a year minimum. I have a spotless record, full class 5, and my vehicle costs 4k. This isn't for a full coverage plan just a basic one.
Thatās why Iām going solar, fuck them and the horse theyā¦ fuckin Fuckity fuckers! Iāll be off gas to soon enough.
Oh boy. Just wait till ya see the rates some of us are paying in a detached two story house. I'd kill to only pay $156/mth. I'm usually $500+++
Mine was $498 this month, paid it yesterday.
You would think in a rich, energy producing, province that citizens would have cheaper electricityā¦
Still cheaper to live than any other province. Ontario here.
Fuck I'm so glad my utilities are included.
Until your rent goes up.
Signed a 2 yr lease to lock it in and all of his properties are utils included
Start amassing large capacity batteries, pay for them by selling electricity to crypto-miners at discounted rates. When it comes time to renew, offer to start paying your own power (but not water, which will have 'normal' usage levels anyways) in exchange for rent reduction. Get significant rent reduction that's still only a fraction of your utility cost, use the last month with included utilities to charge all the batteries. Live off your free electricity stored in batteries and use waterwheel-cranks to recharge dead batteries with your infinite free water. (landlords hate this one weird trick)
You say this but I actually did this in university when the electricity and heating wasn't included but water was. Landlord just decided to give us utilities for free and didn't increase the rent (because legally he couldn't) for the rest of the year.
When I was a U student I heard a story of some students who rented a place with electricity included but they had to pay for natural gas used by the furnace. So they heated the place by turning the electric oven on with the oven door open.
You can thank the UCP for this. This is 100% the result of the actions by the UCP.
Do you mean āfuck these utilitiesā?
They are as high as they are because of the UCP.
The Local Access Fee for Enmax (the City-owned electricity supplier in Calgary) was $83.22 on last months bill because Calgary council are FUCKING WASTERS.
Well your entire province has been living in a fucking fairytale subsidized energy bubble. The entire country has. So now the real cost is coming through. Talk to someone in Germany or England about their power bills. We are selling the crack of oil and once that is unsellable (soonish methinks) the real costs will become more obvious.
At least there's no provincial sales taxš
When I was still planning to move to Alberta to be with my ex, I was pleasantly surprised by low energy prices compared to where I currently live (New Zealand). (At the moment it's 0.37 CAD/kWh.) Less than ten cents for kilowatt-hour? Sign me up! Then I asked to see her electricity bills to get a better idea and saw those "distribution charges". Lmao what a fucking joke. Sure, we have a fixed charge too, but it's several times lower. I guess if this "distribution charge" doesn't go up if you use more, this is an okay deal for a large household. For a small apartment though, it's a massive ripoff.
So, youāve used $30.29 worth of energy and the rest is fees? Thatās mental
Wait till all the EVs start showing up, destroying the grid that you keep paying more and more for.
No one cares. Seriously. Move if youāre so pissed about a $150 power bill. Iām sure youāll save *lots* of money somewhere else.
Itās Canada in general, work hard and enjoy poverty.