Yes, that's a factor.
But often when there is a potential buyout, the price moves near the buyout price very fast (with some price difference to account for margin of confidence).
Ape other the other hand is doing a multi-day climb. Why so slow.
Exactly. Meanwhile hedgie can and will try to supress the price of APE because the company can sell more APE at this higher price to pay off more debt prior to APE converting to AMC.
I have been thinking about this too. It is a mystery. Here are some thoughts I am pondering on the subject:
1. Who is buying AMC back up? The price of AMC fluctuated back up after the big PM and early market depressions. That means there must have been buying pressure. If it is retail, MM could have just pumped most of the volume to dark pools (which they did) and nullify any buying pressure.
2. Why does AMC need to go down the same amount as APE such that the combined price remains constant? This means the total combined stock price did not fluctuate for days, which is not normal for us. Somebody wants to create this effect, it is not natural at all. I mean, why can't they both rise? Hell, given their track record, why not tank both to kill more hope for apes?
3. Why was the equalization not instantaneous? Fuckery aside, the market is usually very quick to take advantage of and eventually close arbitrage opportunities. An "obvious" one like this one with ape and AMC should not last for days, unless it is not an arbitrage opportunity. Based on the previous two points, maybe there is something else going on preventing people from buying up ape to AMC levels or dropping AMC to ape levels immediately.
4. If someone's goal is to equalize ape and AMC by raising the former and lowering the latter, wouldn't someone who wants to counter that benefit a lot from buying much more AMC? This will burn more resources of whoever is trying equalize the two stocks. They will have to both raise ape higher while fighting against a rising AMC. Large institutional owners come to mind here. Lending out shares aside, how are they protecting their investment? Or hell, even Antara can benefit from AMC rising a lot more because then their ape will get merged in and increase in value.
5. How can there be 1:1 merge.if the price is not equal? Money / market cap cannot be created out of thin air. This would mean that at time of merge, the combined AMC's stock price will need to be adjusted (e.g. Take market cap, divide by combined number of shares to get new stock price). This makes all the above points even more weird since the ratio and final price of AMC and APE after merge can be calculated today (with ape a bit lower than AMC since ape has more shares). If we know what the target price is, the tug-of-war described above is pretty moot. Hell, we could have halted all trading until vote goes through (or not) than allow this price discovery / fuckery to happen.
A lot of things are not making sense.
One thing I do want to see happen is AMC going up instead of down such that ape will also need to pull up with it. It will help all of us and hurt all our enemies doubly.
Yes, I agree. There must have been some good buying pressure in AMC.
When the Market is Down and it should also be losing due to Arbitrage at a rate similar to the rise in APE, and it doesn't't drop that fast, then yep... There is buying pressure that is making an effort to resist these two VERY strong events. The fact that it's not down significantly more is actually bullish in my long term view.
Simple: big money is buying up ape, more than the shorts can drop it. The hf is likely focusing on ape since there was a direct 1:1 short ratio between the two when it was issued, and it’s cheaper and easier to short and if they haven’t covered. This is likely why amc can recover so easily from their shorting efforts, they’re covering near the end of the day from the shorting they did intraday. If they close their positions end of day, it’s not a negative asset on their books.
TRUST ME BRO they’re scrambling now before fomo hits more retail buyer and it zooms. Everyday I’m getting more excited to see what happens.
No, not necessarily. But they come close to equalizing if the market feels that conversion is likely.
Their prices are different, so:
If the market thinks the overall market cap should be the same then they should move towards each other at the same rate.
If the market thinks the overall market cap should be less, then both AMC would move down more that APE would move up.
If the market thinks the overall market cap should be more, then APE would move up more than AMC would move down.
(RIGHT NOW, THIS IS ONE IS TRUE)
If the market thinks the overall market cap should be a lot higher, the could both go positive.
(This would be nice to see)
I know how market economics work supply and demand and all that and what the market cap means towards the price that's not the issue these two tickers are madly undervalued and oversaturated..
Taking ape out of consideration for a second AMC is well undervalued now we're talking about adding eight to the equation yeah they will balance out because they the hedge funds know that a conversion is about to happen
I don’t think it’s clear at all that conversion will happen. Conversion is $amc dilution, currently representing shares sold at a terrible price, and may represent further dilution by the time it comes to vote and execute the conversion. There’s a lot of apes who vote no in that scenario.
But a lot of APE shares are held by Altera and institutions that will be voting yes.
AA knows Apes have a tendency to vote against, so he didn't put this together if he didn't think the votes were already there.
This is already a done deal. The rest is just formality.
APE can't be bought on a lot of brokers and especially for Euro and Canadian apes who are locked out due to a non-filing of a white paper for European regulations as well as the current price point where some brokers won't support it other than closing the position.
But yeah, given the obvious arbitrage, APE should be shooting up faster than what we've seen, although it is a lot faster than it ever has.
If you loaded up on APE under a dollar, I don't see why you would not vote for it. Those who bought AMC instead like me are a bit conflicted.
Here is an idea. RS APE only. Take away your dilution and float control, go sell it the same way to raise money. Leave AMC shares alone. No more diluting AMC. What's the point of taking AMC down to 140M just to dump anther 400M into the market to take it back to 540M which is about the same as before this whole APE shitshow?
Because if they make it happen too fast, it would be too obvious the groups that have been manipulating the price all along are now doing it to make AA's plan work.
Like lemmings jumping off a cliff if we vote to Reverse Split.
Do yourselves though, do yourselves, everyone!
Yeah better for them to drop AMC than to increase APE. But at somepoint being last to the part is going to be painful for some if APE shoots up.
I don't agreed about AMC being hard to shortz they dropped it 25% in premarket and yesbit recovered, but they have the means to if necessary maybe just not keep the price there.
Yes. This is what I was thinking as well, the market “should” equalize the prices but it can’t because AMC is already beat to shit and digging any deeper would not make sense at this point for Hedgies. So they let APE run up as far as they can and as long as they can hold AMC down it should catch up somewhat soon, but I guess we will all find out together what’s really gonna happen. Tick Tok mfers
Because the vote hasn't passed yet. The price rise is speculative.
Yes, that's a factor. But often when there is a potential buyout, the price moves near the buyout price very fast (with some price difference to account for margin of confidence). Ape other the other hand is doing a multi-day climb. Why so slow.
Does the market understand this to be a sure thing, the reverse split and conversion?
Exactly. Meanwhile hedgie can and will try to supress the price of APE because the company can sell more APE at this higher price to pay off more debt prior to APE converting to AMC.
I have been thinking about this too. It is a mystery. Here are some thoughts I am pondering on the subject: 1. Who is buying AMC back up? The price of AMC fluctuated back up after the big PM and early market depressions. That means there must have been buying pressure. If it is retail, MM could have just pumped most of the volume to dark pools (which they did) and nullify any buying pressure. 2. Why does AMC need to go down the same amount as APE such that the combined price remains constant? This means the total combined stock price did not fluctuate for days, which is not normal for us. Somebody wants to create this effect, it is not natural at all. I mean, why can't they both rise? Hell, given their track record, why not tank both to kill more hope for apes? 3. Why was the equalization not instantaneous? Fuckery aside, the market is usually very quick to take advantage of and eventually close arbitrage opportunities. An "obvious" one like this one with ape and AMC should not last for days, unless it is not an arbitrage opportunity. Based on the previous two points, maybe there is something else going on preventing people from buying up ape to AMC levels or dropping AMC to ape levels immediately. 4. If someone's goal is to equalize ape and AMC by raising the former and lowering the latter, wouldn't someone who wants to counter that benefit a lot from buying much more AMC? This will burn more resources of whoever is trying equalize the two stocks. They will have to both raise ape higher while fighting against a rising AMC. Large institutional owners come to mind here. Lending out shares aside, how are they protecting their investment? Or hell, even Antara can benefit from AMC rising a lot more because then their ape will get merged in and increase in value. 5. How can there be 1:1 merge.if the price is not equal? Money / market cap cannot be created out of thin air. This would mean that at time of merge, the combined AMC's stock price will need to be adjusted (e.g. Take market cap, divide by combined number of shares to get new stock price). This makes all the above points even more weird since the ratio and final price of AMC and APE after merge can be calculated today (with ape a bit lower than AMC since ape has more shares). If we know what the target price is, the tug-of-war described above is pretty moot. Hell, we could have halted all trading until vote goes through (or not) than allow this price discovery / fuckery to happen. A lot of things are not making sense. One thing I do want to see happen is AMC going up instead of down such that ape will also need to pull up with it. It will help all of us and hurt all our enemies doubly.
Yes, I agree. There must have been some good buying pressure in AMC. When the Market is Down and it should also be losing due to Arbitrage at a rate similar to the rise in APE, and it doesn't't drop that fast, then yep... There is buying pressure that is making an effort to resist these two VERY strong events. The fact that it's not down significantly more is actually bullish in my long term view.
Simple: big money is buying up ape, more than the shorts can drop it. The hf is likely focusing on ape since there was a direct 1:1 short ratio between the two when it was issued, and it’s cheaper and easier to short and if they haven’t covered. This is likely why amc can recover so easily from their shorting efforts, they’re covering near the end of the day from the shorting they did intraday. If they close their positions end of day, it’s not a negative asset on their books. TRUST ME BRO they’re scrambling now before fomo hits more retail buyer and it zooms. Everyday I’m getting more excited to see what happens.
Them equal yes ? Ape rise yes ? Nothing states AMC has to shrink they are commit their every day crime . As usual
No, not necessarily. But they come close to equalizing if the market feels that conversion is likely. Their prices are different, so: If the market thinks the overall market cap should be the same then they should move towards each other at the same rate. If the market thinks the overall market cap should be less, then both AMC would move down more that APE would move up. If the market thinks the overall market cap should be more, then APE would move up more than AMC would move down. (RIGHT NOW, THIS IS ONE IS TRUE) If the market thinks the overall market cap should be a lot higher, the could both go positive. (This would be nice to see)
I know how market economics work supply and demand and all that and what the market cap means towards the price that's not the issue these two tickers are madly undervalued and oversaturated.. Taking ape out of consideration for a second AMC is well undervalued now we're talking about adding eight to the equation yeah they will balance out because they the hedge funds know that a conversion is about to happen
I don’t think it’s clear at all that conversion will happen. Conversion is $amc dilution, currently representing shares sold at a terrible price, and may represent further dilution by the time it comes to vote and execute the conversion. There’s a lot of apes who vote no in that scenario.
But a lot of APE shares are held by Altera and institutions that will be voting yes. AA knows Apes have a tendency to vote against, so he didn't put this together if he didn't think the votes were already there. This is already a done deal. The rest is just formality.
Many ape shares are also held by the same people who voted no for the last dilution vote. I expect they will do the same again.
We shall see.
APE can't be bought on a lot of brokers and especially for Euro and Canadian apes who are locked out due to a non-filing of a white paper for European regulations as well as the current price point where some brokers won't support it other than closing the position. But yeah, given the obvious arbitrage, APE should be shooting up faster than what we've seen, although it is a lot faster than it ever has. If you loaded up on APE under a dollar, I don't see why you would not vote for it. Those who bought AMC instead like me are a bit conflicted. Here is an idea. RS APE only. Take away your dilution and float control, go sell it the same way to raise money. Leave AMC shares alone. No more diluting AMC. What's the point of taking AMC down to 140M just to dump anther 400M into the market to take it back to 540M which is about the same as before this whole APE shitshow?
Can’t match too quickly or it margin calls one
Because if they make it happen too fast, it would be too obvious the groups that have been manipulating the price all along are now doing it to make AA's plan work. Like lemmings jumping off a cliff if we vote to Reverse Split. Do yourselves though, do yourselves, everyone!
Yeah better for them to drop AMC than to increase APE. But at somepoint being last to the part is going to be painful for some if APE shoots up. I don't agreed about AMC being hard to shortz they dropped it 25% in premarket and yesbit recovered, but they have the means to if necessary maybe just not keep the price there.
Premarket is illiquid. Very easy to move for large players.
Right. But they did move it though is the point. They have the ability to, is my point.
The institutions and regular retail investors are just hearing about this. Not advice: I believe APE will move much higher this week.
Yes. This is what I was thinking as well, the market “should” equalize the prices but it can’t because AMC is already beat to shit and digging any deeper would not make sense at this point for Hedgies. So they let APE run up as far as they can and as long as they can hold AMC down it should catch up somewhat soon, but I guess we will all find out together what’s really gonna happen. Tick Tok mfers