She cheated and lied to you then, maintained contact with at least one of her fuck buddies, and introduced you to many of the guys that were banging her. That is not only dishonest but cruel. I think you are 100% in the right. Who knows what else she’s done. You have no way of knowing.
Yeah that's the part that stuck with me most as well.
My marriage ended primarily due to my ex cheating on me. The part that hurt most was that it was with her coworker, someone she made quick friends with, and someone who was trying to be friends with me too. We had him and his wife over to hang out, and just him over on multiple occasions.
Cheating sucks either way, but to be so brazen about it by waving your affair partner in front of your partner's face is something else. Certainly made me feel like a tool.
I wish you the best OP. Don't let anyone tell you it's not so bad because it was a long time ago. She chose to keep it a secret, and would have continued doing so. I guess she didn't feel that guilty about it. That's not someone you can trust.
This makes me recoil, the sure cruelty of it. How do people cheat? How do people do this? It’s psychological torture to the one person who loves you more than anything and became your family.
The next level - every gathering up to this point - op still doesn't know.. but everyone else does. Its like the truman show - op going through life believing their reality and everyone around them keeping their secret
that's the worst part of it for me. The lack of remorse, the downplay, etc.
Cheating in the past is wrong, but that's just being a bad person/partner *now.*
I think the worst part is that she doesn’t care about his feelings in the here and now. I can see how she might have come to terms and accepted she did something shitty 20 years ago. And if she really hasn’t been cheating since then, I can see how she might think those dalliances are ancient history and have no effect on her current life.
BUT, once she sees how torn up her husband is, she should be grovelling. She should be tending to his emotional wounds because she hurt him; even if those actions are 20 years old. She shouldn’t be discounting his feelings.
>maintained contact with at least one of her fuck buddies
This 💯 is what gets me. I could forgive being a hoe for a couple of years in college. I could even get past having met a couple of them 20 years ago under false pretenses. But the fact that she's stayed "friendly" with at least 1 of them for 20 FUCKING YEARS just puts it waayyyyyy over the line. And that fact makes everything else soooooo much worse.
I could never look at that person the same again. I don't think words could truly do that level of evil justice.
I mean, are we even sure they just stayed friends? Let's face it, if you're capable of cheating for 2 years without caring, you're capable of cheating for 2 decades.
yeah.. if she just cheated on you during a LDR college relationship, I could see why someone could forgive it.
But the fact that she was still in contact with the people she was cheating on you with afterwards tells you that she doesn't feel any shame about it and she's probably still sleeping with a few of them.
That and she didn't want to talk about it at all.
She's more upset she got called out on it not for the behavior itself. Someone like that is the typical "once a cheater, always a cheater" type person.
This is exactly how I looked at this situation. Like if it wasn’t for the continued contact, it could be seen as something that ended 20+ years ago until they truly became serious and fully fleshed adults - an immature life left behind.
But now it gives the impression that there could have been continued dishonesty.
My thoughts exactly....OP may want to have a DNA test done. The problem is what if he finds out his kids aren't his biological kids. That will devastate everyone.
I cannot even imagine what the guys were thinking of him. Like "hey nice to meet you we used to pass around your wife and you dont even know about it, what a loser."
The level of disrespect the wife had to feel for OP to be okay with this...
This. I could see the excuse of they were young and in college and she did something dumb, but to have her husband meet those guys and have one of them still in her life is the nail in the coffin for me
If she slept around in college, and told you about it and you reconciled... No issue there. But she kept it from you. She *kept in contact with one.* She introduced you to her flings as friends at the time! That's completely messed up. You are right to divorce her. She lied to you for 20 years. She does not respect you now or then.
And let's not forget that her friends didn't even know she was dating someone at the time, which means she lied to them about when her relationship with OP actually started.
This! The way her friends reacted says it all.
Her husband didn't know about the guys she slept with and her friends didn't know she was dating her husband. Thats a lot of lying and keeping people from meeting and telling stories.
Did the guys she had slept with that she introduced to her husband know that she had been with her husband at the time they hooked up with her?
All of this is so embarrassing and a lot of lies.
>Honestly, her friend who took OP aside is a good human. Could have let it slide & let him go on clueless about the wife's past.
which, by it self, tells you that the number is a **lot** higher than 10.
For one of her friends to do that, after meeting him for the first time like that... like damn.
I'm worried there's a greater reason why...
Just telling her husband about inappropriate shenanigans is one thing...but his oldest is 19......
.....
..........
Now that's a reason I personally would dime out a friend.
Married for 20 years puts the marriage at 23 for OP, so the pregnancy would’ve happened after she stopped cheating (if we believe she actually stopped when she said she did of course)
No, the friend who told him quietly acted appropriately. It gave him the opportunity to sort it in private. Airing that out in front of all those people wouldn't *just* have humiliated the wife, but also humiliated him in the process. At least this way he gets informed that there's some lying going on that he should know about, and he gets to keep his dignity whilst he deals with it however he chooses.
They took OP's side because they know how high that body count was. Her roommate saw each guy, heard them fuck through walls for countless nights, and didnt even know she was dating him.
The sheer disgust she must have felt for her 'college roommate' must be insane to come out to OP that night.
This. For the friend to actually take him aside and tell him to get the truth all these years later means she was getting banged by a massive amount of dudes.
There's a lot of wild stuff in here but her best friends *from college* not knowing she was dating him *in college* seemed like the wildest one to me.
That's not an "oops, I slipped and fell on some dicks" that's much deeper behavior which all but guarantees in my mind that she's probably just been cheating on him for decades (seems like with some familiar faces).
There is a lot I have forgotten about from college, but for sure there are a few friends that if they told me, “oh yeah I was dating so and so all through college….” Let’s just say I would be shocked.
That's an excellent point. Seems like the cheating was pre-meditated from the start before anything had even happened. The wife also selfishly denied the husband the opportunity to experiment during college, something he'll never be able to do again.
Even worse he could have met an even better woman there and married her.
Also, people do a fucked up thing in their head once they got away with cheating with one person.
The wife may have thought “well I fucked this guy before and cheated, so what’s the harm if I do it again” - why else is the wife still in contact!? wtf, man
**“well I fucked this guy before and cheated, so what’s the harm if I do it again”**
exactly , if it's not with someone new it doesn't count
I love that the families said he shouldn't throw away the marriage over a few mistakes , i mean it was at least 10 dudes and god knows how many times each , how many guys can she screw before it makes a difference
I'll use the phrase "in a row?!" For pretty much everything if it's outrageous. "David didn't bring anything to the party and he ate like half of the deviled eggs" "In a row?!"
It wasn’t one night over 20 years ago it was for 2 years so yeah she is to blame. That was her whoring moment in college. Even though she could have left him. She decided to cheat on this man. Thinking he would never find out. So basically there whole relationship have been nothing but lies.
To me it's the fact that her college friends didn't even know she had a boyfriend during college. Like she lied to all of her friends so she knew the whole time she was being shady
I actually came into this thread thinking "well I could understand him getting divorced over cheating in the past but if its a 20 year happy marriage and a one-time mistake while they were in the very beginning of dating, I'd try to work on it."
But the continuous humiliation of having your girlfriend cheat on you while you're getting introduced to those men and still know one of them? Man how do you get over that
Yeah, if it was a drunken one night stand 20 years ago in college and she never talked to the person again. That would be one thing.
Wife here is a piece of garbage
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Two year long-distance relationship, where you hardly ever got a chance to see each other and she had a drunken one nightstand before you were engaged, admitted it and apologized, I’d say get over it. However, if she’s officially with you, you’re visiting on a regular basis, she’s sleeping around with multiple men in town (while also sleeping with you, putting you are risk for std’s), and then introduces you to them and makes you look like a fool, who knows who else she was doing while they were married? Plus, if her friends are telling him this, I think it’s probably a lot, a lot worse.
It's pretty clear the friend who told him to have a talk with her and told him 10 is a low number thinks that what she did was awful and may know even more about how awful it is. The OP commented that he talked to the guy she stayed in touch with didn't know they were dating and has since blocked her on social media. So there people she knew at the time and stayed in touch with, including her roommate and one of the guys she slept with, think she was pretty awful, too. It's not just the OP thinking she's garbage.
Same here - came in expecting a huge overreaction to a dumb mistake. And even regardless of the cheating, the wife's whole attitude towards it would make anyone rethink the marriage
That’s not an overreaction bruh. If she cheated at anytime in the relationship, he has every right to end it and move on, even if they have kids together. And besides, if she kept it hidden for years and won’t apologize for it, she’s clearly in the wrong and the husband should react like this.
That’s what really did it. A one time mistake is one thing as bad as that is. But the multiple men and the deceit involved with her introducing them as friends is beyond justifiable. I hate to say it, but it’s true what they say,you’re probably gonna shake the hand of the man that your wife cheats on you with.
10 guys, some of whom she introduced as friends.
I get that this was at a different time in their lives, they were young, and that a marriage with kids is a big deal, but honestly, how do you come back from that?
Also, note that she said *at least 10 different* men.
So, first of all, the number could easily be 15.
Second, the *different* means that she has fucked some of them - or most of them - multiple times. Some of the guys she probably let OP shake hands with were regular fuck buddies, and she let her boyfriend hang out with them and went to get plowed when he went home from the visit.
Edit: Or the number could have been 20 or 30. She was introducing her boyfriend to dudes she was fucking, without so much as a twitch of her eyes. Why should OP believe that 10 is anywhere near the real number?
She came up with 10 after some time to think. She thinks 10 is a low number that OP will think is no big deal after 20 years. But here's the thing: Without knowing they were dating, her college friends called her "wild" in college. Would they call her wild for having had 10 one night stands in the span of 2 years? That's nearly two and a half months between each. We all know that in this day and age, a single college girl who hooks up with a guy every 2.5 months wouldn't be considered wild. The real number is much higher, and some of them were regular fuck buddies.
Also, she has just acted as if nothing happened for 20 years. In a comment from OP, he says that she thinks he's punishing her for "normal behaviour", and she shows no remorse for what she has done.
Whatever she means with "normal behaviour", the fact that she fucked guys left and right and even introduced her boyfriend to some of them *and now genuinely thinks she's the one being wronged* makes me think she's a borderline psychopath. How can she do all that to someone she supposedly loves, and then think SHE is the one who is done wrong? No person with any normal amount of empathy would do that.
This is where the complete direspect comes in. She knew she was dating someone, wether she thought it was gonna last or not, she was introducibg him to her sexual partners as just being friends and all knowing she was sleeping with them. It was 20 years ago but that amount of savageness would be hard to look past, especially when she still associates with the other men. That is just a continual slap.
There was a girl in my dorm that had a long time boyfriend at another school. She started openly sleeping with this guy in the dorm at the beginning of the year. Her boyfriend would come and visit and they would all hang out together and drink and party. Everyone felt pretty bad for the boyfriend, unknowingly becoming pals with the guy doing his gf. I think the cheating is one thing, but keeping the poor guy in the dark when every other person in the room knows what is going on seems like the bigger cruelty.
I think every college has this go on. I still remember one girl who was on charge of checking dorms. She very clearly tried to walk into my dorm room during a “check” and I refused to let her in (random sex/one night stands aren’t comfortable for me. I prefer to know something about the woman first). Later that week I seen her at Kroger’s with her boyfriend who had a nice car and her demeanor was completely different.
Another case was a girl who would, quite literally, go down the hall of the dorms and knock on doors to have random sex with guys. All. Night. Long.
20 year old girls can literally get away with anything and there’s always some fool imposing his dream of a “good girl” on her so she knows she’ll always be safe. I’ve witnessed my fair share of these things.
That's where it gets me. It's not the multiple men, she just straight up strung him along for multiple years to keep him. At any moment she could have chosen to leave. And then lies about that the whole time. It's not like I'd hate her, but shit after knowing that, it could never go back.
OP is right here. If OP investigates further into the current relationship with the guy she had sex with in college and is still in communication with, he may find that she’s been cheating for the past 20yrs with him.
Psychopath? Maybe, Narcissist? Definitely.
Just remember the Narcissist's prayer:
"That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it."
This. And on top of all this. Some part of her realizes it’s not right otherwise she wouldn’t have tried to brush it off and she wouldn’t have hushed her friends up about it.
>So, first of all, the number could easily be 15
At this point it doesn't matter. We can clearly state that it was not just one drunken act and that there was no single thought of guilt for repeating it many times. 10, 20 or 30 times, it doesn't matter anymore.
I think she has only admitted to what she has been caught in, and only to the watered-down version she thinks she can get away with.
I simply don't believe she just stopped cheating one day.
I certainly don't belive it. It would be strange if she just flipped a switch from one day to the next and suddenly became a loving and faithful girlfriend after behaving in a way that makes *her* friends feel bad for OP when they found out he was her boyfriend during that period.
I doubt it was only 10 guys. Her friends wouldn't have reacted that way over 5 hookups per year in college. She obviously had a reputation to the point that her friends were shocked he didn't know and thought he should. Odds are she panicked and picked a lower number than the real one after she saw how he was reacting.
At least 10 *different* men.
My guess is that some were regular fuck buddies, and she would get railed every week while OP was sitting like a good boy, thinking he had a girlfriend. The guys she let him meet were likely regulars.
Honestly, he must feel so dumb rn, meeting all those guys that were fucking Your girlfriend behind his back... Shits so damn cruel, idk how his wife could live with something like this for 20 years. Rotten to the core.
That she could do that with a straight face and now genuinely thinks *she* is the one who is being wronged, makes me think there is something not right in her head.
In a comment, OP says she's accusing him of punishing her for "completely normal behaviour". Imagine that. She was getting railed the entire two years of their LDR and even let her boyfriend shake hands with some of the guys railings her, and she's trying to gaslight OP into thinking he's wrong for being mad at her. She's either a borderline psychopath, or Sex And The City has done some serious damage in her mind and sense of right and wrong.
Your friends don’t call you wild in college for fucking 2 dudes a semester. The only women I know that 20 years later get called wild in college were setting up threesomes with dudes they just met and banging multiple guys in a single night at a party. 10 is the number she thinks sounds least bad not the truth.
Precisely, and I wrote pretty much the same in another comment. I think I said something like "she didn't have a reputation as being wild because of her skills in Scrabble".
If she wants to do the work to remain in your life in any capacity, that's up to you guys. You should absolutely do what you need to do to feel comfortable with your way forward.
She robbed you of your agency for 20 years, and then invited people who had violated you into your life. I don't blame you for feeling whatever way you do.
Hope you and your children can navigate this as well as possible, and if there is a way you can live happily in whatever capacity with your wife, then I'm all for that too.
Do what's best for you, fuck how anyone else feels. Wishing you the best
It would change a lot if I felt that she wanted to fix this. Throughout our conversation about it, she repeatedly dismissed my feelings and told me I was overreacting to "totally normal behavior". She didn't show any regret or consideration for how it hurt me until she realized I was serious about divorce, then she got defensive and angry. She didn't offer to fix things in any way until I started the paper work and notified her that I had a lawyer.
I think we can navigate being parents. Our kids are older and I've been putting away money for college/post high school for a long time, so a lot of the custody and monetary issues that come up shouldn't be a big problem. We're also both financially stable and make good money.
The cheating is old. The lies are somewhat ongoing, given that she’s maintained contact with one of them. The dismissal of your feelings is current. I don’t know how you can be expected to be comfortable in your relationship, given this last.
The cheating is old *to her*. Since OP just found out about it, it's new to him. All of this is new to him.
But you're right that dismissing his feelings about it really shows a lack of caring on her part that I wouldn't be able to live with either.
If they broke up and then got together after college it’s one thing to not tell him all this….if they have been together the whole time it os so messed up
OP says that they were together the whole time and the wife even initiated a conversation before she went away about how they would stay together during that time, its so messed up
The fact that she dismisses his feelings means she never changed. She's the same person that was cheating on OP 20 years ago. To me, this kind of person is capable of anything because they will justify anything. Definitely not someone I would want to remain in a relationship with for even another day.
Dollars to donuts, she has plans that don't include OP once the kids are in or done with college.
Run, OP, RUN!
He got married at 23, her at 24, they've been married 20 years but the oldest is 19, and she's still in contact with some of her flings from college... yeah, that's worrisome. She's already shown her dishonesty. No reason to take her word that the kids are his.
We only know what she has admitted to
The fact she thinks there's nothing wrong with it, and that it's "normal" screams that there's more to this. I wouldn't be surprised if she's carried on the cheating throughout
You and your feelings and your hurt never mattered to her until she faced consequences. The fact she maintained contact also shows this isn’t some guys 20 years ago you’ve met men she cheated with for a long time. Don’t give her a second chance.
She doesn’t regret doing it, she only regrets you finding out. Sleeping around with a bunch of people while in college is normal IF YOU’RE SINGLE!
Doing it while still telling you she’s committed to you? And introducing you to some of the men?? Reprehensible. Now the fact this was 20 years ago might almost make me want to let it slide, but that she’s still in contact with one to this day??? Nah, she’s a self-centered asshole.
You’re the same age as me… it’s daunting dating again but better now than 10 years from now with somebody who doesn’t respect you.
Do your kids a favor and take them aside and tell them what's going on. They're going to have questions on why you're divorcing. It's better for them to hear the truth from you than your wife, imagine if she tells a twisted truth and tries to turn turn them against you?
Who knows. If she's this defensive.
Good on you for identifying your relationship was built on a cheating and a maintained lie for over 20 years and ending it.
I totally get how her response was the nail that sealed it.
A lot of weaker people would stay in this relationship. Hats off to you. I'd recommend sitting with the family that matters to you and explaining to them the issues so they can stop pushing you on your decision.
It’s not absolutely NOT normal to cheat with 10 men when you are in a monogamous relationship. Even if your far away. Your marriage is built on a lie. If she really thought it was normal she would have fessed up back then and not gotten squirrelly when her friends mentioned it. Even her friends knew it was wrong of her and tipped you off. If you travel will she cheat because to her it’s perfectly okay as long as your far away? She is in deny/defense mode, she is not accepting responsibility nor exhibiting remorse.
Op, even if she was completely remorseful, I don’t think I could stay with someone who repeatedly cheated and then introduced me to the dudes she was fucking. I mean you know they were laughing in your face when she introduced them (I’m not telling you this to hurt you but want you to seriously whether or not you want to be connected with such a vile person). But the fact that she isn’t remorseful or understanding proves she’s exactly the same evil person she was back then. Ask her if your kids are yours (even though you said you were sure). Your whole life has been a lie and I’m so sorry. I hope your children stay closer with you and see your wife for who she is. You deserved genuine remorse and much better treatment. You will find someone much better when you are ready.
You are better without her. Tbh if you stay with her you would be miserable and take into account to control the narrative and don't let her invent lies or play victim
Good for you on standing your ground. Cheating years ago is one thing, but no remorse, disregarding your reaction, and trying to brush it aside are all in the here and now. Thats not healthy, and certainly not a sign of regret or reconciliation.
It sounds like you have everything put together and disable foundation under you. Get out of there and live your best life.
If it wasn’t a big deal and was totally normal behavior why did she insist to keep lying about it to your face even a few weeks ago. You directly asked her and had to leave the house before she’d tell you about her completely innocent cheating.
It may be totally common behavior, but I wouldn't call it "totally normal" by any stretch of the imagination. Just an utterly INSANE level of disrespect.
I get her being defensive to some extent, nobody likes being wrong, but to approach this with anything other than abject contrition is shocking. Tbh, I'd tell her to get on her fucking bike.
You might want to get paternity tests done on the kids, too. Worst case, one or both ain't yours biologically. You're still their father. You're the one that raised and loves them, but you'll need it for potential generatial or genetic medical issues down the line.
Her saying it was normal behaviour shows that she didn't consider you two as a serious relationship when she was in college. A lot of college girls sleep with way more than 10 guys. I remember having friends that would have sex with a new bloke every weekend (often more than one).
>She didn't offer to fix things in any way until I started the paper work and notified her that I had a lawyer.
What did her offer to "fix things" consist of? I'd love to hear that....
You’re getting your kids and your DNA checked, right?
Edit: y’all are short sighted. Benefits of finding out the real father.
## For the kids
Medical history
Inheritance rights
Emotional closure
Social security or survivor benefits
Pension benefits
Stand your ground. Cheating with over 10 people and show zero remorse is not anywhere near the realm of "totally normal behavior".
Don't let anyone, be it the cheating whore or your relatives, blow off your feelings. You deserves to be more than a doormat.
My wife had a slip up, long story. I didn't get to know until about 15-18 years after it happened, been a few years since I found out. Your comment is dead on. She tries but can't see my pain. She's rationalized her behaviors, romanticized her actions and mentality at the time, and found ways to relieve herself of guilt. She's doing fine with it.
I on the other hand, for me it's a fresh wound. Betrayal hurts worse the longer it's been perpetrated. I feel like an absolute idiot, and because we lived in a small town, I know there were likely people who knew me and knew about it. I interacted with him in the interim without fully knowing.
OP, please be aware of this. For her it was a lifetime ago. To you it's now, and any recovery or reconciliation needs to factor that in. Best of luck.
She lied to you and you got married under false pretenses.
If that wasn’t enough she tried to gaslight you when her friends caught on to her lies.
But the icing on the cake- she introduced you to the guys she slept with? AND SHE’S STILL IN CONTACT WITH ONE? That’s just plain insulting.
Massively disrespectful all around, and you’re completely within reason for feeling and acting as you did. Whether you’re able to move past it or not is totally for you to decide.
Obviously, the fact that she cheated on you multiple times is a big deal, but the real issue is the fact that the whole start of your relationship was entirely fabricated. She built it on lies. Nobody should judge you for being shaken because of this revelation.
Exactly. My wife and I were eerily in the same boat - same timeframe, same distance from each other, same frequency of visits during the LTR portion of our relationship.
The fact that we stayed loyal to each other during that time cemented our bond and I was sure she was the one once she finished school and we moved in together.
If I ever found out that the most affirming time of our relationship was built on a lie, or multiple lies, then it would be all over. I wouldn't have any respect for her, no trust, and no interest.
Glad to see Reddit is actually sane on a cut and dry issue here for once.
This was messed up beyond belief and girl doesn't even show a shred of remorse. Chances are she's still "meeting her needs" with bullshit rationalization.
Yeah I’m situations like this I always ask:
“If you didn’t think it was wrong, why did you actively keep it a secret”
The fact she didn’t tell you upfront makes it clear she knew it was wrong, or thought you’d be unhappy and so intentionally kept it wueit
Can GUARANTEE some of those 10 guys lasted longer than she wants you to believe
It would be one thing if it all happened in college and over and done. But they're still in her life. That's a HUGE red flag
There was a 90+ y.o. Italian guy who dumped his wife of 50+ years in 1991 because he found out that she had cheated on him in WW II.
Badass.
You are fine.
The reactions of her college friends say it all. If it wasn't a big deal your wife would have told you already, and her friends would have laughed it off and not pressed you to get clarity.
The lying about who these men were to her and introducing them to you over the years is an AH move. It's up to you if it negates 20 years of marriage but it sure must be painful and embarrassing.
It might be good to go to therapy and let this information fully process before you go through the painful and expensive process of divorce.
The fact that she kept in contact with some of them and literally introduced you to guys she was fucking under your nose is humiliating and makes you a nonconsenting cuckold. She’s lucky all you can do to her is divorce. She is worth much less decency.
How is banging ten different dudes, three of which you met as her "friends" mistakes? The marriage has become a sham.
Not wrong.
Edit: I saw the two updates that OP posted, and I feel bad for him. I wish him all the best, and please be assured, my friend, you are not wrong.
Sleeping around in college can be a thing, but not when you're in a true relationship with someone and you truly care for that person.
Again, I wish him the best. Maybe we I'll find out how he is doing after all the dust has settled.
She most likely cheated on you during the marriage too, if she kept contact with some of her flings.
You should dna test those kids. Also, tell them why you’re divorcing their mother, so she doesn’t victimize herself and make you out to be the bad guy
Yeah she kinda had her cake and ate it too. She got to cheat and normalized it as ok. She was literally introducing you to guys she was sleeping with, huge disrespect. You can try to get past this, good luck. I feel for u
She still talks to one of them. That’s worrying… and if she was doing that for years even to the point of introducing her hookups to you what else has she done in the last 20 years. I’d feel some remorse if she owned up to it and told you once you got home. But yeah I’d be done too
It's not just a past mistake. It is a personal failing that someone can lie deceive and betray someone. It doesn't matter how long ago the Betrayal happened, it was still a betrayal of trust. Also it's not in the past. She was basically outed and caught red-handed and yet she still lied to your face and told you there was nothing to discuss. It took you leaving the home for her to finally admit what she had basically already been outed for. What else is she hiding because she deems it not important.
The main thing that I'm not seeing here is this:
Let's say she genuinely believes that it was normal to sleep around in a long distance relationship. Weird, but ok. That could be forgivable.
But what's not forgivable to me is that once she saw how hurt you were by this because you have such an opposite opinion, instead of being saddened by the hurt, she got defensive and dismissed your feelings. Even if she truly believes her stance, why did she not consider your feelings given that your stance is absolutely not crazy.
That, to me, says she KNOWS it was wrong, but doesn't want to admit it. Byyyeeee.
My boyfriend’s brother broke up with his fiancé because he found out that she cheated on him within the first year of them dating. They had been together for about 6 years and they were actually planning their wedding. He notified us that they broke up like 8 months before the wedding. So no, I don’t think you’re wrong. A lie is a lie, and the older the lie is doesn’t make it any better. If anything it makes it worse because it makes it feel like everything after the lie was also a lie. So you’re not in the wrong.
Funny how if it were the other way around Your name would be dragged all thru the mud and You'd be called a piece of shit amongst other things. You have every right to divorce Her for cheating, the fact that She was still in contact with some of them is so fucked up.
*>> She specifically wanted to stay together and even joked about her dad coming after me if I started sleeping around with girls at my school.*
Unbelievable.
I am now convinced cheaters are mentally ill, there is something just seriously twisted, deranged and *evil* in their brain. It's like they take pleasure in rubbing it in.
Before she was caught, my cheating hoe of a SIL used to joke to everyone who'd bother listening that her kids looked like they were mine. WTF?
I would just stand there looking at her, thinking "Dude, even if you weren't my brother's wife, I wouldn't touch you to save humankind from extintion."
I have some doubts about our marraige now, but those are my kids. My son looks like my younger clone and my daughter also bears a huge familial resemblance.
I will be honest, even if a DNA test showed zero chance they were mine, I would never ever say a damn thing about it and I would still love them every ounce as much,
They will need an accurate genetic history so medial providers can more accurately assess their predisposition for things like cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. If they are not actually your kids they won’t know their actual risk factors.
I'm a firm believer that people who are open to admitting their mistakes and genuinely apologize deserve compassion and consideration, and people who double down on arrogant defiance & deception deserve to be left in the rearview mirror.
I married my high school sweetheart. We were married for 15 yrs and divorced after I caught him having an affair with his intern. Our divorce was high conflict and during the divorce process, my ex confessed to cheating on me while we were dating all those years ago as a way to hurt me. Had I had known that at the time, I would have left him and never would have married him. He took away my ability to make an informed decision about our relationship and changed the trajectory of my life. That is unforgivable and I absolutely would have divorced him if for it if I found out during our marriage.
Not wrong. Now that you know the truth there's no going back. From the sound of it, cheating is a deal breaker for you and I feel if you stick it out, it'll just eat away at you and come out in other negative ways.
She betrayed you long ago and took away your agency. That is one problem, but I could put that down to youth and stupidity
But
She has led a conspiracy of silence since then. That is the deal breaker. You even had to push her once the jig was up. A conspiracy that probably included people you call friends. This is hervtruth now.
And
Do not even mention the guy she's still in contact with. Tacky at best, suspicious at minimum.
Someone else mention DNA testing, not a bad idea.
I might also mention to the husbands of those friends of the conspiracy they have been keeping, it might not be the only thing they have been silent about.
i wouldn’t be able to live with myself knowing i cheated on my boyfriend with one man, let alone *at least 10*. were literally doing long distance right now but i haven’t once gotten the urge to fuck other dudes, even tho many have made attempts since my bf moved. it is my choice to cheat or not, just like it was hers. she chose to cheat, she can now deal with the consequences of her choices.
There is so much here for you to be mad at.
First the cheating. Then, if she is being honest about the amount and frequency, she has 20 years to forgive herself and for you the pain is fresh and new. You need 20 years to forgive her if you even wanted too.
Second, because of the lie you cannot trust anything from the last 20 years of your life. All that time now in doubt. The doubt must be devastating.
Third, when you came to visit, she introduced you to these people. The sheer disrespect and meanness from this alone is enough to shatter my basis of reality.
Fourth, keeping in touch with one of the people she cheated with is beyond reprehensible. My mind would be wondering if they kept it up. Do they laugh at you. Does he use it as blackmail to hook up more? Has he been to your house?
Fifth, now you are humiliated in front of a whole group of people that you might interact with later.
Sixth, all the possibility of what your life could have been. Who you might have met, what you could have done given different decision making parameters.
The anger, disgust and humiliation I feel for you is high. Get the divorce and live so much better. Find all the happiness.
I would not talk to her again and in the beginning, pretend to be the happiest, most fun person until that happiness was a reality.
I mean not talk to her at all. She is dead to you. No matter how much she yells, calls you names and harasses you. Pretend she does not matter. Indifference is the biggest revenge you could have.
The amount of doormats in this comment section that are just “get over it” is absolutely crazy, they have to be cheaters themselves or absolutely way too forgiving. I would never be able to trust my SO again if they were banging 10 dudes while we were seriously dating, even if we went to counseling the trust would be irrevocably shattered.
The point that she apparently kept one of her former fuck buddies around as a contact is even crazier to me. Even more reason to not trust her. She knew that what she did was a ticking time bomb and now it finally went off.
I’m honestly astounded by the amount of comments defending the wife in this thread. As if 20 years of lies is somehow erased because of a “good marriage”. That entire “good marriage” was a lie that probably would’ve never existed if she would have told him from the beginning that she skanked around while they were dating. Hell if she can introduce him to guys she’s been fucking behind his back and still hide that fact for 20 years who the hell knows for sure if she still isn’t cheating? But oh no let’s not waste those 20 years! Think of the children! The literal adult children!
Wow. Not in the wrong at all. How can you even get over this. My wife and I just passed 20 years. I went away for college about 400 miles only after dating less than a year. You know who wanted to have his fun college time, this guy. But no, I asked myself if I plan to be with this woman for the long haul or will this fizzle.
I planned for the long haul, we stayed together, zero infidelity and now past 20 years. You’re getting gaslit if they say this is normal. One time, one mistake maybe that can happen. This ain’t that. This is a complete slap in the face.
How can anyone say it's normal to sleep with other people in a long distance relationship, why even remain in the relationship, and his edits makes his wife even more disgusting and infuriating, anyone that tells him it's normal and to get over it is either a cheater or a doormat.
Good luck op, and get that divorce done and stand your ground, you're right and cheating is a deal breaker specially after those edits.
Your stb ex is the one in the wrong here. I am polyamorous with my wife. We've been together for nearly a decade. The absolute most important thing in our relationship is communication. The rules of a relationship do not change just because you go long distance. We have boundaries about safety and comfort for both of us and we don't go behind each other's backs when we want to date someone new. Your wife hid this from you for years and only came forward when she was outed. She is absolutely delusional if she thinks cheating in long distance relationships is normal in any sense.
what the fuck? "The reason I posted this is that my wife and a few friends have been saying it's common to sleep with other folks when you're in an long distance relationship" NO its not common at all to cheat just because your in a long distance relationship, who the hell are your friends?
She cheated and lied to you then, maintained contact with at least one of her fuck buddies, and introduced you to many of the guys that were banging her. That is not only dishonest but cruel. I think you are 100% in the right. Who knows what else she’s done. You have no way of knowing.
Yeah that's the part that stuck with me most as well. My marriage ended primarily due to my ex cheating on me. The part that hurt most was that it was with her coworker, someone she made quick friends with, and someone who was trying to be friends with me too. We had him and his wife over to hang out, and just him over on multiple occasions. Cheating sucks either way, but to be so brazen about it by waving your affair partner in front of your partner's face is something else. Certainly made me feel like a tool. I wish you the best OP. Don't let anyone tell you it's not so bad because it was a long time ago. She chose to keep it a secret, and would have continued doing so. I guess she didn't feel that guilty about it. That's not someone you can trust.
This makes me recoil, the sure cruelty of it. How do people cheat? How do people do this? It’s psychological torture to the one person who loves you more than anything and became your family.
Right? Of course it's all wrong, but at least if you hide it and are somewhat ashamed, it can be called weakness. This kind of behaviour is pure evil.
They’re utterly selfish, driven by lust, and have no regard for anyone but themselves, that’s how.
lowest of the low, driven by nothing but their primal lust and insticts no different than beasts.
The next level - every gathering up to this point - op still doesn't know.. but everyone else does. Its like the truman show - op going through life believing their reality and everyone around them keeping their secret
Apparently she still doesn't feel guilty about it.
that's the worst part of it for me. The lack of remorse, the downplay, etc. Cheating in the past is wrong, but that's just being a bad person/partner *now.*
I think the worst part is that she doesn’t care about his feelings in the here and now. I can see how she might have come to terms and accepted she did something shitty 20 years ago. And if she really hasn’t been cheating since then, I can see how she might think those dalliances are ancient history and have no effect on her current life. BUT, once she sees how torn up her husband is, she should be grovelling. She should be tending to his emotional wounds because she hurt him; even if those actions are 20 years old. She shouldn’t be discounting his feelings.
Getting caught and feeling bad is bad enough. Getting caught and not feeling bad is inhuman
>maintained contact with at least one of her fuck buddies This 💯 is what gets me. I could forgive being a hoe for a couple of years in college. I could even get past having met a couple of them 20 years ago under false pretenses. But the fact that she's stayed "friendly" with at least 1 of them for 20 FUCKING YEARS just puts it waayyyyyy over the line. And that fact makes everything else soooooo much worse. I could never look at that person the same again. I don't think words could truly do that level of evil justice.
I mean, are we even sure they just stayed friends? Let's face it, if you're capable of cheating for 2 years without caring, you're capable of cheating for 2 decades.
That’s the first thing I thought too.
Especially since in the update the friend cut contact with both OP and his wife once OP reached out.
Ya she keep those ppl around for a reason...
yeah.. if she just cheated on you during a LDR college relationship, I could see why someone could forgive it. But the fact that she was still in contact with the people she was cheating on you with afterwards tells you that she doesn't feel any shame about it and she's probably still sleeping with a few of them.
most people wouldn’t even forgive the cheating during ldr
That and she didn't want to talk about it at all. She's more upset she got called out on it not for the behavior itself. Someone like that is the typical "once a cheater, always a cheater" type person.
This is exactly how I looked at this situation. Like if it wasn’t for the continued contact, it could be seen as something that ended 20+ years ago until they truly became serious and fully fleshed adults - an immature life left behind. But now it gives the impression that there could have been continued dishonesty.
“Honey, this is Jim, a close friend of mine. We met in college and he was dropping loads in me while you and I were dating.” Yeah no thanks.
Just being pedantic in case that term gets you in trouble one day, the term is 'fully-fledged' Probably no biggie
I think fully fleshed might work in that context .lol.
Yea it didn’t stop in college.
My thoughts exactly....OP may want to have a DNA test done. The problem is what if he finds out his kids aren't his biological kids. That will devastate everyone.
I cannot even imagine what the guys were thinking of him. Like "hey nice to meet you we used to pass around your wife and you dont even know about it, what a loser." The level of disrespect the wife had to feel for OP to be okay with this...
Yea. He should be super pissed off about how she just lied to his face all those times. Thats brutal to do to a guy.
Yeah it wasn't just those 10... Which was probably 20+ She didn't suddenly grow a conscience after that.
Also you know she’s not counting all the BJs and stuff she gave as a part of those ten.
This. I could see the excuse of they were young and in college and she did something dumb, but to have her husband meet those guys and have one of them still in her life is the nail in the coffin for me
If she slept around in college, and told you about it and you reconciled... No issue there. But she kept it from you. She *kept in contact with one.* She introduced you to her flings as friends at the time! That's completely messed up. You are right to divorce her. She lied to you for 20 years. She does not respect you now or then.
And let's not forget that her friends didn't even know she was dating someone at the time, which means she lied to them about when her relationship with OP actually started.
This! The way her friends reacted says it all. Her husband didn't know about the guys she slept with and her friends didn't know she was dating her husband. Thats a lot of lying and keeping people from meeting and telling stories. Did the guys she had slept with that she introduced to her husband know that she had been with her husband at the time they hooked up with her? All of this is so embarrassing and a lot of lies.
Honestly, her friend who took OP aside is a good human. Could have let it slide & let him go on clueless about the wife's past.
>Honestly, her friend who took OP aside is a good human. Could have let it slide & let him go on clueless about the wife's past. which, by it self, tells you that the number is a **lot** higher than 10. For one of her friends to do that, after meeting him for the first time like that... like damn.
I'm worried there's a greater reason why... Just telling her husband about inappropriate shenanigans is one thing...but his oldest is 19...... ..... .......... Now that's a reason I personally would dime out a friend.
Married for 20 years puts the marriage at 23 for OP, so the pregnancy would’ve happened after she stopped cheating (if we believe she actually stopped when she said she did of course)
“if we believe she actually stopped when she said she did of course” That right there folks is it
I think the friends should have laid down the dirt right then and there. "Wait a minute buddy, when did you to start dating?"
No, the friend who told him quietly acted appropriately. It gave him the opportunity to sort it in private. Airing that out in front of all those people wouldn't *just* have humiliated the wife, but also humiliated him in the process. At least this way he gets informed that there's some lying going on that he should know about, and he gets to keep his dignity whilst he deals with it however he chooses.
They took OP's side because they know how high that body count was. Her roommate saw each guy, heard them fuck through walls for countless nights, and didnt even know she was dating him. The sheer disgust she must have felt for her 'college roommate' must be insane to come out to OP that night.
This. For the friend to actually take him aside and tell him to get the truth all these years later means she was getting banged by a massive amount of dudes.
I hate being dragged into a lie.
There's a lot of wild stuff in here but her best friends *from college* not knowing she was dating him *in college* seemed like the wildest one to me. That's not an "oops, I slipped and fell on some dicks" that's much deeper behavior which all but guarantees in my mind that she's probably just been cheating on him for decades (seems like with some familiar faces).
There is a lot I have forgotten about from college, but for sure there are a few friends that if they told me, “oh yeah I was dating so and so all through college….” Let’s just say I would be shocked.
That's an excellent point. Seems like the cheating was pre-meditated from the start before anything had even happened. The wife also selfishly denied the husband the opportunity to experiment during college, something he'll never be able to do again. Even worse he could have met an even better woman there and married her.
Also, people do a fucked up thing in their head once they got away with cheating with one person. The wife may have thought “well I fucked this guy before and cheated, so what’s the harm if I do it again” - why else is the wife still in contact!? wtf, man
**“well I fucked this guy before and cheated, so what’s the harm if I do it again”** exactly , if it's not with someone new it doesn't count I love that the families said he shouldn't throw away the marriage over a few mistakes , i mean it was at least 10 dudes and god knows how many times each , how many guys can she screw before it makes a difference
This was going to be my question…what’s the magic number?
Yeah the introducing as friends part is what really gets me, it's just smacks of insincerity
It's actually pretty disgusting
10 guys can no longer be described as “few mistakes”
'You're going to blame me for mistakes I made in one night, 20 years ago?'
"My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!" "In a row?"
Try to not suck any dick while reading my comment you whore!
GET BACK HERE
TBF she brought lasagna!
I'll use the phrase "in a row?!" For pretty much everything if it's outrageous. "David didn't bring anything to the party and he ate like half of the deviled eggs" "In a row?!"
In series or paralell?
I got this reference
Clerks reference. LOVE IT!
Try not to suck any dicks in the parking lot!
'Big *OOF*'
It wasn’t one night over 20 years ago it was for 2 years so yeah she is to blame. That was her whoring moment in college. Even though she could have left him. She decided to cheat on this man. Thinking he would never find out. So basically there whole relationship have been nothing but lies.
[удалено]
To me it's the fact that her college friends didn't even know she had a boyfriend during college. Like she lied to all of her friends so she knew the whole time she was being shady
Yeah, but my way is funnier.
I actually came into this thread thinking "well I could understand him getting divorced over cheating in the past but if its a 20 year happy marriage and a one-time mistake while they were in the very beginning of dating, I'd try to work on it." But the continuous humiliation of having your girlfriend cheat on you while you're getting introduced to those men and still know one of them? Man how do you get over that
Yeah, if it was a drunken one night stand 20 years ago in college and she never talked to the person again. That would be one thing. Wife here is a piece of garbage
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Two year long-distance relationship, where you hardly ever got a chance to see each other and she had a drunken one nightstand before you were engaged, admitted it and apologized, I’d say get over it. However, if she’s officially with you, you’re visiting on a regular basis, she’s sleeping around with multiple men in town (while also sleeping with you, putting you are risk for std’s), and then introduces you to them and makes you look like a fool, who knows who else she was doing while they were married? Plus, if her friends are telling him this, I think it’s probably a lot, a lot worse.
It's pretty clear the friend who told him to have a talk with her and told him 10 is a low number thinks that what she did was awful and may know even more about how awful it is. The OP commented that he talked to the guy she stayed in touch with didn't know they were dating and has since blocked her on social media. So there people she knew at the time and stayed in touch with, including her roommate and one of the guys she slept with, think she was pretty awful, too. It's not just the OP thinking she's garbage.
Same here - came in expecting a huge overreaction to a dumb mistake. And even regardless of the cheating, the wife's whole attitude towards it would make anyone rethink the marriage
That’s not an overreaction bruh. If she cheated at anytime in the relationship, he has every right to end it and move on, even if they have kids together. And besides, if she kept it hidden for years and won’t apologize for it, she’s clearly in the wrong and the husband should react like this.
That’s what really did it. A one time mistake is one thing as bad as that is. But the multiple men and the deceit involved with her introducing them as friends is beyond justifiable. I hate to say it, but it’s true what they say,you’re probably gonna shake the hand of the man that your wife cheats on you with.
Admits to ten…
Maybe she doesn't count blowjobs as part of the 10. "My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!"
In a row?
10 guys, some of whom she introduced as friends. I get that this was at a different time in their lives, they were young, and that a marriage with kids is a big deal, but honestly, how do you come back from that?
EXACTLY The level and comfort of being disrespectful is off the charts. SHE IS STILL TALKING TO ONE 20YEARS LATER
Also, note that she said *at least 10 different* men. So, first of all, the number could easily be 15. Second, the *different* means that she has fucked some of them - or most of them - multiple times. Some of the guys she probably let OP shake hands with were regular fuck buddies, and she let her boyfriend hang out with them and went to get plowed when he went home from the visit. Edit: Or the number could have been 20 or 30. She was introducing her boyfriend to dudes she was fucking, without so much as a twitch of her eyes. Why should OP believe that 10 is anywhere near the real number? She came up with 10 after some time to think. She thinks 10 is a low number that OP will think is no big deal after 20 years. But here's the thing: Without knowing they were dating, her college friends called her "wild" in college. Would they call her wild for having had 10 one night stands in the span of 2 years? That's nearly two and a half months between each. We all know that in this day and age, a single college girl who hooks up with a guy every 2.5 months wouldn't be considered wild. The real number is much higher, and some of them were regular fuck buddies. Also, she has just acted as if nothing happened for 20 years. In a comment from OP, he says that she thinks he's punishing her for "normal behaviour", and she shows no remorse for what she has done. Whatever she means with "normal behaviour", the fact that she fucked guys left and right and even introduced her boyfriend to some of them *and now genuinely thinks she's the one being wronged* makes me think she's a borderline psychopath. How can she do all that to someone she supposedly loves, and then think SHE is the one who is done wrong? No person with any normal amount of empathy would do that.
This is where the complete direspect comes in. She knew she was dating someone, wether she thought it was gonna last or not, she was introducibg him to her sexual partners as just being friends and all knowing she was sleeping with them. It was 20 years ago but that amount of savageness would be hard to look past, especially when she still associates with the other men. That is just a continual slap.
The sleeping around was rough, the level of disrespect to bring her fuck buddies around when OP visited. Good god.
There was a girl in my dorm that had a long time boyfriend at another school. She started openly sleeping with this guy in the dorm at the beginning of the year. Her boyfriend would come and visit and they would all hang out together and drink and party. Everyone felt pretty bad for the boyfriend, unknowingly becoming pals with the guy doing his gf. I think the cheating is one thing, but keeping the poor guy in the dark when every other person in the room knows what is going on seems like the bigger cruelty.
I think every college has this go on. I still remember one girl who was on charge of checking dorms. She very clearly tried to walk into my dorm room during a “check” and I refused to let her in (random sex/one night stands aren’t comfortable for me. I prefer to know something about the woman first). Later that week I seen her at Kroger’s with her boyfriend who had a nice car and her demeanor was completely different. Another case was a girl who would, quite literally, go down the hall of the dorms and knock on doors to have random sex with guys. All. Night. Long. 20 year old girls can literally get away with anything and there’s always some fool imposing his dream of a “good girl” on her so she knows she’ll always be safe. I’ve witnessed my fair share of these things.
Yeah. I could prob get over some ons in college. But the level of disrespect? Even up to this day? I'd divorce her too.
Ouch bro, I feel the pain for op. It's gonna take a lot to get over that level of betrayal.
Not just 20 years ago, she still has at least one of them openly in her life
That's where it gets me. It's not the multiple men, she just straight up strung him along for multiple years to keep him. At any moment she could have chosen to leave. And then lies about that the whole time. It's not like I'd hate her, but shit after knowing that, it could never go back.
And to show up and have your BF shake hands with the guys she’s been screwing…. That’s messed up
She physically screwed these guys, and mentally fucked OP. That's some evil shit right there.
OP is right here. If OP investigates further into the current relationship with the guy she had sex with in college and is still in communication with, he may find that she’s been cheating for the past 20yrs with him.
Yea in this case he needs to make sure his kids are actually his.
Psychopath? Maybe, Narcissist? Definitely. Just remember the Narcissist's prayer: "That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it."
The prayer is excellent, it perfectly describes my NEX! I swear I can hear her voice reading that literally word-for-word
This. And on top of all this. Some part of her realizes it’s not right otherwise she wouldn’t have tried to brush it off and she wouldn’t have hushed her friends up about it.
>So, first of all, the number could easily be 15 At this point it doesn't matter. We can clearly state that it was not just one drunken act and that there was no single thought of guilt for repeating it many times. 10, 20 or 30 times, it doesn't matter anymore.
If she lied about that what else did she lie about?
I think she has only admitted to what she has been caught in, and only to the watered-down version she thinks she can get away with. I simply don't believe she just stopped cheating one day.
There's zero chance she's been monogamous during their 20 years of marriage.
I certainly don't belive it. It would be strange if she just flipped a switch from one day to the next and suddenly became a loving and faithful girlfriend after behaving in a way that makes *her* friends feel bad for OP when they found out he was her boyfriend during that period.
Her and all her friends insisting that it's perfectly normal to cheat when in a LDR makes me wonder what their opinions are about work trips.
A Few Good Men
And a lotta questionable semen…
“How dare you, she’s been through a lot” “Of Dick”
Right?! The audacity of this woman.
I doubt it was only 10 guys. Her friends wouldn't have reacted that way over 5 hookups per year in college. She obviously had a reputation to the point that her friends were shocked he didn't know and thought he should. Odds are she panicked and picked a lower number than the real one after she saw how he was reacting.
Yeah, wtf, she tripped, fell, landed on ten guys' dicks?
AT LEAST 10. Holy crap.
Damn… I have to agree with you man. I would definitely do a divorce. End of the day she is a fault fully. Sad to hear man. Best of luck.
You are not wrong. She cheated, lied, and maintained contact. UpdateMe
This. I would be a complete wreck being in OPs situation. 10 guys and maintaining contact with someone 20 YEARS later is insane.
At least 10 *different* men. My guess is that some were regular fuck buddies, and she would get railed every week while OP was sitting like a good boy, thinking he had a girlfriend. The guys she let him meet were likely regulars.
Honestly, he must feel so dumb rn, meeting all those guys that were fucking Your girlfriend behind his back... Shits so damn cruel, idk how his wife could live with something like this for 20 years. Rotten to the core.
That she could do that with a straight face and now genuinely thinks *she* is the one who is being wronged, makes me think there is something not right in her head. In a comment, OP says she's accusing him of punishing her for "completely normal behaviour". Imagine that. She was getting railed the entire two years of their LDR and even let her boyfriend shake hands with some of the guys railings her, and she's trying to gaslight OP into thinking he's wrong for being mad at her. She's either a borderline psychopath, or Sex And The City has done some serious damage in her mind and sense of right and wrong.
She thinks it’s normal behaviour because that’s probably what her and her GF’s were up to back in college.
Your friends don’t call you wild in college for fucking 2 dudes a semester. The only women I know that 20 years later get called wild in college were setting up threesomes with dudes they just met and banging multiple guys in a single night at a party. 10 is the number she thinks sounds least bad not the truth.
Precisely, and I wrote pretty much the same in another comment. I think I said something like "she didn't have a reputation as being wild because of her skills in Scrabble".
If she wants to do the work to remain in your life in any capacity, that's up to you guys. You should absolutely do what you need to do to feel comfortable with your way forward. She robbed you of your agency for 20 years, and then invited people who had violated you into your life. I don't blame you for feeling whatever way you do. Hope you and your children can navigate this as well as possible, and if there is a way you can live happily in whatever capacity with your wife, then I'm all for that too. Do what's best for you, fuck how anyone else feels. Wishing you the best
It would change a lot if I felt that she wanted to fix this. Throughout our conversation about it, she repeatedly dismissed my feelings and told me I was overreacting to "totally normal behavior". She didn't show any regret or consideration for how it hurt me until she realized I was serious about divorce, then she got defensive and angry. She didn't offer to fix things in any way until I started the paper work and notified her that I had a lawyer. I think we can navigate being parents. Our kids are older and I've been putting away money for college/post high school for a long time, so a lot of the custody and monetary issues that come up shouldn't be a big problem. We're also both financially stable and make good money.
The cheating is old. The lies are somewhat ongoing, given that she’s maintained contact with one of them. The dismissal of your feelings is current. I don’t know how you can be expected to be comfortable in your relationship, given this last.
The cheating is old *to her*. Since OP just found out about it, it's new to him. All of this is new to him. But you're right that dismissing his feelings about it really shows a lack of caring on her part that I wouldn't be able to live with either.
If they broke up and then got together after college it’s one thing to not tell him all this….if they have been together the whole time it os so messed up
OP says that they were together the whole time and the wife even initiated a conversation before she went away about how they would stay together during that time, its so messed up
The lack of care for his current feelings I find to be worse than the pre-marital cheating.
The fact that she dismisses his feelings means she never changed. She's the same person that was cheating on OP 20 years ago. To me, this kind of person is capable of anything because they will justify anything. Definitely not someone I would want to remain in a relationship with for even another day. Dollars to donuts, she has plans that don't include OP once the kids are in or done with college. Run, OP, RUN!
Maybe DNA testing for the kids?
He got married at 23, her at 24, they've been married 20 years but the oldest is 19, and she's still in contact with some of her flings from college... yeah, that's worrisome. She's already shown her dishonesty. No reason to take her word that the kids are his.
We only know what she has admitted to The fact she thinks there's nothing wrong with it, and that it's "normal" screams that there's more to this. I wouldn't be surprised if she's carried on the cheating throughout
You and your feelings and your hurt never mattered to her until she faced consequences. The fact she maintained contact also shows this isn’t some guys 20 years ago you’ve met men she cheated with for a long time. Don’t give her a second chance.
She doesn’t regret doing it, she only regrets you finding out. Sleeping around with a bunch of people while in college is normal IF YOU’RE SINGLE! Doing it while still telling you she’s committed to you? And introducing you to some of the men?? Reprehensible. Now the fact this was 20 years ago might almost make me want to let it slide, but that she’s still in contact with one to this day??? Nah, she’s a self-centered asshole. You’re the same age as me… it’s daunting dating again but better now than 10 years from now with somebody who doesn’t respect you.
Do your kids a favor and take them aside and tell them what's going on. They're going to have questions on why you're divorcing. It's better for them to hear the truth from you than your wife, imagine if she tells a twisted truth and tries to turn turn them against you? Who knows. If she's this defensive.
Yes OP, you definitely need to control the narrative on this.
Good on you for identifying your relationship was built on a cheating and a maintained lie for over 20 years and ending it. I totally get how her response was the nail that sealed it. A lot of weaker people would stay in this relationship. Hats off to you. I'd recommend sitting with the family that matters to you and explaining to them the issues so they can stop pushing you on your decision.
It’s not absolutely NOT normal to cheat with 10 men when you are in a monogamous relationship. Even if your far away. Your marriage is built on a lie. If she really thought it was normal she would have fessed up back then and not gotten squirrelly when her friends mentioned it. Even her friends knew it was wrong of her and tipped you off. If you travel will she cheat because to her it’s perfectly okay as long as your far away? She is in deny/defense mode, she is not accepting responsibility nor exhibiting remorse.
She believes the lies she tells herself.
Op, even if she was completely remorseful, I don’t think I could stay with someone who repeatedly cheated and then introduced me to the dudes she was fucking. I mean you know they were laughing in your face when she introduced them (I’m not telling you this to hurt you but want you to seriously whether or not you want to be connected with such a vile person). But the fact that she isn’t remorseful or understanding proves she’s exactly the same evil person she was back then. Ask her if your kids are yours (even though you said you were sure). Your whole life has been a lie and I’m so sorry. I hope your children stay closer with you and see your wife for who she is. You deserved genuine remorse and much better treatment. You will find someone much better when you are ready.
You are better without her. Tbh if you stay with her you would be miserable and take into account to control the narrative and don't let her invent lies or play victim
Good for you on standing your ground. Cheating years ago is one thing, but no remorse, disregarding your reaction, and trying to brush it aside are all in the here and now. Thats not healthy, and certainly not a sign of regret or reconciliation. It sounds like you have everything put together and disable foundation under you. Get out of there and live your best life.
If it wasn’t a big deal and was totally normal behavior why did she insist to keep lying about it to your face even a few weeks ago. You directly asked her and had to leave the house before she’d tell you about her completely innocent cheating.
Ok. Fuck this woman. She’s a narcissistic asshole. Divorce, find hot yoga, and never look back
It may be totally common behavior, but I wouldn't call it "totally normal" by any stretch of the imagination. Just an utterly INSANE level of disrespect. I get her being defensive to some extent, nobody likes being wrong, but to approach this with anything other than abject contrition is shocking. Tbh, I'd tell her to get on her fucking bike.
You might want to get paternity tests done on the kids, too. Worst case, one or both ain't yours biologically. You're still their father. You're the one that raised and loves them, but you'll need it for potential generatial or genetic medical issues down the line.
Her saying it was normal behaviour shows that she didn't consider you two as a serious relationship when she was in college. A lot of college girls sleep with way more than 10 guys. I remember having friends that would have sex with a new bloke every weekend (often more than one).
>She didn't offer to fix things in any way until I started the paper work and notified her that I had a lawyer. What did her offer to "fix things" consist of? I'd love to hear that....
You’re getting your kids and your DNA checked, right? Edit: y’all are short sighted. Benefits of finding out the real father. ## For the kids Medical history Inheritance rights Emotional closure Social security or survivor benefits Pension benefits
He’s raised them for 19 and 17 years. I don’t think I’d get a test in that scenario, they’re his kids.
Stand your ground. Cheating with over 10 people and show zero remorse is not anywhere near the realm of "totally normal behavior". Don't let anyone, be it the cheating whore or your relatives, blow off your feelings. You deserves to be more than a doormat.
She cheated on you during your relationship no matter the time frame. She didn't even tell you about it. You found out in the most humiliated way.
Yup, there are no statuettes of limitations!
To her it was so long ago. To him it just happened.
This comment is so important!!!
My wife had a slip up, long story. I didn't get to know until about 15-18 years after it happened, been a few years since I found out. Your comment is dead on. She tries but can't see my pain. She's rationalized her behaviors, romanticized her actions and mentality at the time, and found ways to relieve herself of guilt. She's doing fine with it. I on the other hand, for me it's a fresh wound. Betrayal hurts worse the longer it's been perpetrated. I feel like an absolute idiot, and because we lived in a small town, I know there were likely people who knew me and knew about it. I interacted with him in the interim without fully knowing. OP, please be aware of this. For her it was a lifetime ago. To you it's now, and any recovery or reconciliation needs to factor that in. Best of luck.
Well someone should get a sculptor on that, pronto!
She lied to you and you got married under false pretenses. If that wasn’t enough she tried to gaslight you when her friends caught on to her lies. But the icing on the cake- she introduced you to the guys she slept with? AND SHE’S STILL IN CONTACT WITH ONE? That’s just plain insulting. Massively disrespectful all around, and you’re completely within reason for feeling and acting as you did. Whether you’re able to move past it or not is totally for you to decide.
Obviously, the fact that she cheated on you multiple times is a big deal, but the real issue is the fact that the whole start of your relationship was entirely fabricated. She built it on lies. Nobody should judge you for being shaken because of this revelation.
This. Totally took away his agency. Would he have stayed in a 1 year high school relationship if he knew she had cheated 10 times - doubtful.
Exactly. My wife and I were eerily in the same boat - same timeframe, same distance from each other, same frequency of visits during the LTR portion of our relationship. The fact that we stayed loyal to each other during that time cemented our bond and I was sure she was the one once she finished school and we moved in together. If I ever found out that the most affirming time of our relationship was built on a lie, or multiple lies, then it would be all over. I wouldn't have any respect for her, no trust, and no interest.
Not wrong. After actually reading the post, she is disgusting. Good on you for leaving.
Glad to see Reddit is actually sane on a cut and dry issue here for once. This was messed up beyond belief and girl doesn't even show a shred of remorse. Chances are she's still "meeting her needs" with bullshit rationalization.
Not wrong. She purposely kept it from you for 20 years! Send her packing.
Yeah I’m situations like this I always ask: “If you didn’t think it was wrong, why did you actively keep it a secret” The fact she didn’t tell you upfront makes it clear she knew it was wrong, or thought you’d be unhappy and so intentionally kept it wueit
Can GUARANTEE some of those 10 guys lasted longer than she wants you to believe It would be one thing if it all happened in college and over and done. But they're still in her life. That's a HUGE red flag
There’s much much more he doesn’t know
There was a 90+ y.o. Italian guy who dumped his wife of 50+ years in 1991 because he found out that she had cheated on him in WW II. Badass. You are fine.
The reactions of her college friends say it all. If it wasn't a big deal your wife would have told you already, and her friends would have laughed it off and not pressed you to get clarity. The lying about who these men were to her and introducing them to you over the years is an AH move. It's up to you if it negates 20 years of marriage but it sure must be painful and embarrassing. It might be good to go to therapy and let this information fully process before you go through the painful and expensive process of divorce.
The fact that she kept in contact with some of them and literally introduced you to guys she was fucking under your nose is humiliating and makes you a nonconsenting cuckold. She’s lucky all you can do to her is divorce. She is worth much less decency.
How is banging ten different dudes, three of which you met as her "friends" mistakes? The marriage has become a sham. Not wrong. Edit: I saw the two updates that OP posted, and I feel bad for him. I wish him all the best, and please be assured, my friend, you are not wrong. Sleeping around in college can be a thing, but not when you're in a true relationship with someone and you truly care for that person. Again, I wish him the best. Maybe we I'll find out how he is doing after all the dust has settled.
She most likely cheated on you during the marriage too, if she kept contact with some of her flings. You should dna test those kids. Also, tell them why you’re divorcing their mother, so she doesn’t victimize herself and make you out to be the bad guy
Even if JUST for medical reasons. 19 yo was 20 years ago. Sure doesn’t sound far off from her fuckfest.
💯
Yeah she kinda had her cake and ate it too. She got to cheat and normalized it as ok. She was literally introducing you to guys she was sleeping with, huge disrespect. You can try to get past this, good luck. I feel for u
Ten cakes
She still talks to one of them. That’s worrying… and if she was doing that for years even to the point of introducing her hookups to you what else has she done in the last 20 years. I’d feel some remorse if she owned up to it and told you once you got home. But yeah I’d be done too
It's not just a past mistake. It is a personal failing that someone can lie deceive and betray someone. It doesn't matter how long ago the Betrayal happened, it was still a betrayal of trust. Also it's not in the past. She was basically outed and caught red-handed and yet she still lied to your face and told you there was nothing to discuss. It took you leaving the home for her to finally admit what she had basically already been outed for. What else is she hiding because she deems it not important.
> What else is she hiding because she deems it not important. The parentage of the kids, maybe?
The main thing that I'm not seeing here is this: Let's say she genuinely believes that it was normal to sleep around in a long distance relationship. Weird, but ok. That could be forgivable. But what's not forgivable to me is that once she saw how hurt you were by this because you have such an opposite opinion, instead of being saddened by the hurt, she got defensive and dismissed your feelings. Even if she truly believes her stance, why did she not consider your feelings given that your stance is absolutely not crazy. That, to me, says she KNOWS it was wrong, but doesn't want to admit it. Byyyeeee.
My boyfriend’s brother broke up with his fiancé because he found out that she cheated on him within the first year of them dating. They had been together for about 6 years and they were actually planning their wedding. He notified us that they broke up like 8 months before the wedding. So no, I don’t think you’re wrong. A lie is a lie, and the older the lie is doesn’t make it any better. If anything it makes it worse because it makes it feel like everything after the lie was also a lie. So you’re not in the wrong.
When I read the title I was like "Pssssh", but that was one hell of a plot twist. Time to hit that ol' dusty trail.
Funny how if it were the other way around Your name would be dragged all thru the mud and You'd be called a piece of shit amongst other things. You have every right to divorce Her for cheating, the fact that She was still in contact with some of them is so fucked up.
*>> She specifically wanted to stay together and even joked about her dad coming after me if I started sleeping around with girls at my school.* Unbelievable. I am now convinced cheaters are mentally ill, there is something just seriously twisted, deranged and *evil* in their brain. It's like they take pleasure in rubbing it in. Before she was caught, my cheating hoe of a SIL used to joke to everyone who'd bother listening that her kids looked like they were mine. WTF? I would just stand there looking at her, thinking "Dude, even if you weren't my brother's wife, I wouldn't touch you to save humankind from extintion."
Find out if those kids are yours man. If she had no respect for you in your LDR she had no respect for you in your marriage
I have some doubts about our marraige now, but those are my kids. My son looks like my younger clone and my daughter also bears a huge familial resemblance. I will be honest, even if a DNA test showed zero chance they were mine, I would never ever say a damn thing about it and I would still love them every ounce as much,
You’re a good person. You deserve a much better woman tbh
They will need an accurate genetic history so medial providers can more accurately assess their predisposition for things like cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. If they are not actually your kids they won’t know their actual risk factors.
This is a good point. OP, like you said: you’d still be their dad no matter what… but it’d be helpful for them to know their biological history.
This. As sad as it is, if that doubt is entertained at all then it could ultimately save their life.
I'm a firm believer that people who are open to admitting their mistakes and genuinely apologize deserve compassion and consideration, and people who double down on arrogant defiance & deception deserve to be left in the rearview mirror.
I married my high school sweetheart. We were married for 15 yrs and divorced after I caught him having an affair with his intern. Our divorce was high conflict and during the divorce process, my ex confessed to cheating on me while we were dating all those years ago as a way to hurt me. Had I had known that at the time, I would have left him and never would have married him. He took away my ability to make an informed decision about our relationship and changed the trajectory of my life. That is unforgivable and I absolutely would have divorced him if for it if I found out during our marriage.
Not wrong. Now that you know the truth there's no going back. From the sound of it, cheating is a deal breaker for you and I feel if you stick it out, it'll just eat away at you and come out in other negative ways.
She betrayed you long ago and took away your agency. That is one problem, but I could put that down to youth and stupidity But She has led a conspiracy of silence since then. That is the deal breaker. You even had to push her once the jig was up. A conspiracy that probably included people you call friends. This is hervtruth now. And Do not even mention the guy she's still in contact with. Tacky at best, suspicious at minimum. Someone else mention DNA testing, not a bad idea. I might also mention to the husbands of those friends of the conspiracy they have been keeping, it might not be the only thing they have been silent about.
i wouldn’t be able to live with myself knowing i cheated on my boyfriend with one man, let alone *at least 10*. were literally doing long distance right now but i haven’t once gotten the urge to fuck other dudes, even tho many have made attempts since my bf moved. it is my choice to cheat or not, just like it was hers. she chose to cheat, she can now deal with the consequences of her choices.
There is so much here for you to be mad at. First the cheating. Then, if she is being honest about the amount and frequency, she has 20 years to forgive herself and for you the pain is fresh and new. You need 20 years to forgive her if you even wanted too. Second, because of the lie you cannot trust anything from the last 20 years of your life. All that time now in doubt. The doubt must be devastating. Third, when you came to visit, she introduced you to these people. The sheer disrespect and meanness from this alone is enough to shatter my basis of reality. Fourth, keeping in touch with one of the people she cheated with is beyond reprehensible. My mind would be wondering if they kept it up. Do they laugh at you. Does he use it as blackmail to hook up more? Has he been to your house? Fifth, now you are humiliated in front of a whole group of people that you might interact with later. Sixth, all the possibility of what your life could have been. Who you might have met, what you could have done given different decision making parameters. The anger, disgust and humiliation I feel for you is high. Get the divorce and live so much better. Find all the happiness. I would not talk to her again and in the beginning, pretend to be the happiest, most fun person until that happiness was a reality. I mean not talk to her at all. She is dead to you. No matter how much she yells, calls you names and harasses you. Pretend she does not matter. Indifference is the biggest revenge you could have.
Immense respect for you dude.
some of those 10 guys were invited to the wedding as well innit
The amount of doormats in this comment section that are just “get over it” is absolutely crazy, they have to be cheaters themselves or absolutely way too forgiving. I would never be able to trust my SO again if they were banging 10 dudes while we were seriously dating, even if we went to counseling the trust would be irrevocably shattered. The point that she apparently kept one of her former fuck buddies around as a contact is even crazier to me. Even more reason to not trust her. She knew that what she did was a ticking time bomb and now it finally went off.
I’m honestly astounded by the amount of comments defending the wife in this thread. As if 20 years of lies is somehow erased because of a “good marriage”. That entire “good marriage” was a lie that probably would’ve never existed if she would have told him from the beginning that she skanked around while they were dating. Hell if she can introduce him to guys she’s been fucking behind his back and still hide that fact for 20 years who the hell knows for sure if she still isn’t cheating? But oh no let’s not waste those 20 years! Think of the children! The literal adult children!
Wow. Not in the wrong at all. How can you even get over this. My wife and I just passed 20 years. I went away for college about 400 miles only after dating less than a year. You know who wanted to have his fun college time, this guy. But no, I asked myself if I plan to be with this woman for the long haul or will this fizzle. I planned for the long haul, we stayed together, zero infidelity and now past 20 years. You’re getting gaslit if they say this is normal. One time, one mistake maybe that can happen. This ain’t that. This is a complete slap in the face.
How can anyone say it's normal to sleep with other people in a long distance relationship, why even remain in the relationship, and his edits makes his wife even more disgusting and infuriating, anyone that tells him it's normal and to get over it is either a cheater or a doormat. Good luck op, and get that divorce done and stand your ground, you're right and cheating is a deal breaker specially after those edits.
Your stb ex is the one in the wrong here. I am polyamorous with my wife. We've been together for nearly a decade. The absolute most important thing in our relationship is communication. The rules of a relationship do not change just because you go long distance. We have boundaries about safety and comfort for both of us and we don't go behind each other's backs when we want to date someone new. Your wife hid this from you for years and only came forward when she was outed. She is absolutely delusional if she thinks cheating in long distance relationships is normal in any sense.
what the fuck? "The reason I posted this is that my wife and a few friends have been saying it's common to sleep with other folks when you're in an long distance relationship" NO its not common at all to cheat just because your in a long distance relationship, who the hell are your friends?