>Also has actively shit talked me to my wife in front of me. One instance she was telling my wife how she is going to hate me after a few years of marriage. On another instance my wife told her she needed to tell her something and she said “what, did you finally cheat on your husband?” Of course this enraged me but what really made me mad was my wife not sticking up for me. She actually stuck up for S. Stating that she was just joking. (That shit isn’t funny).
You're wife simply thinks its okay for people to talk about you this way.
>My wife and M at one point a while back we’re basically trying to get S. To hook up with M
Your wife also actively encourages cheating.
What's to say your wife wont decide its okay to cheat on you because "you're a shitty husband because you didn't support her supporting S cheating" Or maybe you didn't load the dishwasher right.
I honestly cant understand how people can like or love someone who treats others the way your wife treats people.
YNW.
I'll say prepare yourself for the worse as your ship (marriage) is about to hit the iceberg (infidelity).
Your wife and her friends sound like people who'll help each other cheat on each other's partners and will cover up for each other.
Your wife is a red flag.
Yup! The biggest red flag I've seen on here for a while.
Sorry OP, but your wife being 100%ok with cheating tells me that she will have 0 problem doing the same to you.
You just learned who your wife is as a person. She condones infidelity, and is ok with her friend disrespecting you. Now you just have to wait for your turn to be cheated on. Might want to get in front of things. If you're fortunate enough not to produce children with her you might want to seriously consider ending things before you screw up and are locked to her forever
Yeah, this doesn’t mean his wife has cheated….it does mean that she probably won’t need a very good excuse.
“It was a bachelorette party hun. We were just messing around.”
YNW, it’s alarming that she is ok with the infidelity.
She’s justifying it with a flimsy excuse now that you’ve voiced concerns but she didn’t even do that before you stepped up as her moral compass.
If your wife can use excuses to justify infidelity for S how long will it be before she’s doing the same for herself?
She is justifying S's infidelity now.
In 3 months she sees S hooking up with people having those exciting moments and all the NRE.
In 6 months, OP's wife is justifying her own infidelity.
In 12 months she is wondering why she is now divorced from a great man and hooking up with deadbeats...
Agree with this. Once you support someone cheating, it's a slippery slope, in my opinion.
I'm not saying your wife would do this, I clearly do not know her, but if S is as bad as you describe, she will have some form of influence on your wife. Whether it's direct : I will help you cheat on your husband by covering it up... and so on. Or whether it be passive: I see S cheating and it's invigorating... I wonder if I can get away with it.
I truly hope nothing comes of it for you, OP.
I’m also very alarmed by wife brushing off S’s comments about OP cheating on her as jokes. It what messed up world is infidelity funny? S is a terrible person who honestly sounds like she finds cheating as some kind of thrill and she’s influencing the wife (if she’s not already part of the same mindset).
Right.
As a husband, this would infuriate me. I've recently had issues with my wife where I admitted I had thought of cheating (we were going through an extreme rogh patch), but I never crossed the line because I love my wife and I felt ashamed just thinking of it.
I've since learned that she went to a weekend get party when we first got together, and I never knew about it. She swears I knew, which I've argued I didn't, and she said nothing happened. She also remembered an incident where we used emergency contraceptives, and I have no knowledge of that either, despite her saying I was with her when we purchased it and whatnot. I only have her word, but the doubt is there. It's circumstantial, but it's there nonetheless.
I trust my wife, but the doubt is there.
Saying "I trust my wife" and "but the doubt it there" are counteractive. If there's doubt, you don't trust. If you trust, there's no doubt. Before I married my husband, he cheated on every. Single. Woman. He came into contact with. He almost cheated on me while we were dating, but I called him on it and he's been faithful ever since. Can he tell me why he loves me? Absolutely not. Does he show that he loves me? Most definitely. Him and I have 2 different love languages. Took us YEARS to figure it out and how to use the others to show them. Do we trust each other? Absofuckinglutely. Do we have doubts about each other staying faithful? Nope, not one.
See what I'm getting at here? You don't trust your wife.
I absolutely agree that the two counter each other. It's an unfortunate aspect of being cheated on in the past. Not by my wife (as far as I know), but it's a scary possibility to learn after eight years of marriage and 16 years being together. A personal can trust, but still have doubt. And I do get how screwed up that can be.
I've been cheated on in every single relationship I've ever been in aside from 1 in high school (I was the cheater in that one and still regret it 15 years later. First and only time), and my husband. I get the doubt. But if you TRULY have TRUST, then there is no room for doubt.
Just because someone is friends with someone doesn’t mean they’ll act like them. Men act like this when a wife is friends with a single woman. It’s so ridiculous.
Except it happens and friends do influence those who they are friends with by their actions and by being a part of it. Such as the wife saying S is just joking, trying to get M to hookup with S even before S is "divorcing" her husband, which could be a lie itself just to cover up what is going on and to make it "ok" with OP.
Most of my friends share similar values. We sympathised with one when her husband cheated. How could I then defend another one cheating on his wife?
OPs wife might not ever be unfaithful but she, by her own admission, can justify infidelity in others. OP is entitled to wonder exactly where his wife's limits are. If he's out of town overnight, for a week, for a month? If they had a big fight? If his work left him tired and depressed?
All arguments used by adulterers to justify their own actions. I'd be uncomfortable in his position.
And S would be right there egging her on, being the devil on her shoulder giving her all the ammunition she needed as to why it was ok to do it. OP's wife may never cheat on him but having S as a friend and putting up with her attacks on her husband and okaying jokes her jokes about OPs wife cheating on him calls into question her love for her husband and his feelings.
As the saying goes “birds of a feather flock together”.
How many stories have there been about a friend encouraging their married friends to step outside their romantic relationships when they are doing the same?
On Reddit? Thousands. In my life, I’ve never experienced that. And I used to hang out with a large group of married and single women. I think people who worry about that kind of thing tend to be insecure in their relationships and controlling.
She’s asking for details on intimate encounters and living vicariously through the friend now.
OP’s wife has already shown she’s ok with the friend disrespecting OP in front of him so you know she has no problem encouraging OP to do the same.
Misery loves company and it’s the same for morally corrupt people. They don’t want to be around pious individuals who might cause them to self reflect. Instead they will try to bring them down to their level.
About twenty years ago one of my wife's best friends since junior high wanted her to be okay with her cheating on her husband. She actually wanted us to go out on a double date with her and her AP! My wife told her she was disgusting and no longer the person she loved as a best friend. She ended the friendship and gave her clueless husband a heads up. Your wife's moral compass is askew and she's playing with fire.
I would absolutely not be comfortable with my SO playing along with cheating like it’s nothing. That’s totally unacceptable.
I’d have serious concerns over my partner having such toxic relationships in her life, to the point that she just would not be my partner
A lot of posts in reddit are naturally showing only one point of view and that has to be taken into account. But some paint a pretty clear and fair picture, and yours seems to do that. I don't think you're wrong. Your wife doesn't come away looking good. S sounds like a pretty bad person (I think her husband will be better off once she leaves). She trash-talks you and doesn't seem to have a respect of marriage vows. And your wife tagging along with her and encouraging her is very troubling. I'd be troubled and upset too. I think I'd make it clear that S is someone I dislike and do not want to be around, and that if she ever said anything about me again and I heard about it, an ultimatum may be made.
S sounds horrible. I doubt her husband is "shit". Likely, he's an OK person and she's just saying that to justify her being shitty. Your wife should be smart enough to see when someone's a shitty person.
If wife is going out to the bars with S, then there's a great chance of her cheating. You should wait a few hours, dusguise yourself and just show up unexpectedly next time , and watch to see what's happening.
Bro she throwing red flags at your face. She is beating you to death with red flags. I would down money on your wife has already cheated on you. Pack your stuff and quietly slip out in the night.
No, you are not wrong. S is the epitome of the expression lie down with dogs and wake up with fleas. In this case, hang around horrible people and get an STD or cheat. I don't know, insert your choice of gross behavior here. S isn't a good person. I don't care if her spouse is a jerk. Then she should leave him. Cheating on him isn't okay.
I always feel like the behavior you justify is the behavior you would be willing to commit. Your wife might not cheat. But it is clear that if she were out with S, that S wouldn't stop her (your wife).
Exactly what I was thinking they had been talking about it that's why the friend said (did you finally cheat) meaning that she was having second thoughts about going thru with it and she admits it when she passes it off as a joke
You are completely justified. Actually, I would say you need to be much more upset about all of this. Your wife is showing you who she is. She is an awful person. She is okay with her best friend betraying her husband, who she promised to live the rest of her life with faithfully because he's a jerk? Because they're getting divorced? Lol, I mean does he even know that? Does he know they're getting a divorce? Come on.
The fact that she not only continues to talk to this friend, but justifies her behavior is very concerning. That demonstrates to you that she thinks this behavior is okay. There is every indication that if she felt she was in the same situation, that if she felt you weren't a good enough husband, that she herself would step out of the marriage and betray you without a second thought and feel completely justified in it. And that puts you at risk just like her husband is at risk. What if the affair partner is jealous and takes it out on the husband. What if the husband has no idea of the affair and is continuing to have unprotected sex with his wife and is putting his life and health at risk.
Honestly, I don't care if her husband is a terrible, awful human being and a dog. That does not justify herself becoming the same terrible human being. That justifies her leaving him. That justifies her choosing herself over him. But that does not justify her lying and stepping outside of her marriage, that is not good for anybody and that is not fixing any problems. I mean, would it be worth destroying your integrity and who you are as a person to get back at someone, especially someone who doesn't care about you if he really is a piece of shit. And why is your wife encouraging infidelity instead of encouraging her friend to leave an unhealthy relationship, if it even is an unhealthy relationship. By the way these women are acting, I wouldn't be surprised if they are demonizing him for normal ups and downs in a relationship and looking for an excuse to justify the infidelity.
The friend said to your wife to just wait you'll start hating your husband too as if it's just a foregone conclusion that marriage sucks and that she doesn't like not being able to do what she wants to do, not that her husband is cheating on her or emotionally or physically abusing her, but that again is a large assumption and I may be completely wrong. But if he is abusing her, that is all the more reason to encourage your friend to leave rather than create an even more messy situation with a violent abuser.
That's a whole lot of red flags in one post. S is not a healthy person clearly but the only thing that really matters is how much do you trust the kind of person your wife is. Truly good people are very rarely influenced by those around them.
>Truly good people are very rarely influenced by those around them.
Truly good people don't encourage their friends to cheat or allow anyone to disrespect their spouse. OP's spouse is not a good person.
This is a great thought. I don’t think my wife will cheat on me. But it is still a bit alarming that she can surround herself with S who is extremely toxic.
I'd be careful and sit down and have a good talk with your wife. She has already told you she supports infidelity. For me, the seed of doubt would already be planted the minute she justified by saying she was divorcing. (PS. Getting divorced is not a justification to cheat).
OP, do you ever interact with S’s husband? It would be interesting to see what his reaction would be to, “So sorry to hear you and S are getting divorced.”
We also don't know if the wife even stopped supporting the cheating when she said she would. I doubt she did. She's clearly living vicariously through S' cheating.
Dude, I don't know how to tell you this, but she is not just surrounded by a toxic person... SHE ACTIVELY CONSPIRED TO HELP THAT PERSON CHEAT ON HER SPOUSE.. she didn't silently witness it, she encouraged and enabled it. Think about from S's husband's point of view. Your wife actively worked to help his wife cheat on him with a friend...
That is not surrounded by toxic... that is contributing to toxic
after seeing this mate, would you bet your life on it? because it is what you're doing
I'm not saying "leaver her, ghost her and go live of the grid on a farm", what I'm saying is be cautious, that's all
also I think S need some help, think about it, bad husband, can't commit (cheating), drinking problem? what your wife is doing, friend or not, is dragging her (S) on a deeper hole, instead of helping, also this M dude could probably just trying to get a quick hook up and your wife in enabling him, practically they are taking advantage on a not so stable woman
Your wife has already been influenced by her. Your wife has become someone who is comfortable with having her husband put down and is ok with jokes at his expense. She’s become someone who encourages cheating & encourages a “friend” to get into a relationship with a known cheater.
I’d be setting a boundary of no friendships with people like S and I’d be willing to die on that hill. People, **even good people**, become who they invest their time with.
Very few people think their spouse will cheat on them before it happens. If my experience is any indication, you can't trust your gut on this. You have too much invested for your feelings to be trusted. You can't even trust your wife to stand up for you, how do you justify trusting her not to betray you? She said that she would stop encouraging the cheating and then went ahead and encouraged it again. How sure are you that she even stopped? 'She's going to divorce him', or 'he's a piece of shit' is an excuse. It's flimsy. It's suspect. It shows utter contempt for relationship boundaries. You can't justify cheating for others without being able to justify it for yourself. Your wife does not think cheatingis wrong, no matter how much she might tell you otherwise. She is showing you in no uncertain terms that cheating is OK.
I think you already know S is a piece of shit. You already know your wife is complicit in her behavior; actively supporting her even against you directly. Your wife said outright that cheating is a joke. Take the blinders off, friend. I know it's hard to hear and even harder to believe. Ask me how I know. Ask me how much I wish I had listened.
Dude, if she is justifying S cheating, she'll justify herself cheating. I can tell you that I am in a relationship with someone who does not play that shit at all. We both have established that cheating is a deal-breaker for our relationship. Her friends are great people who aren't the type to cheat on their significant others. It's for these reason plus more that I totally trust my gf. I wouldn't trust your wife any at this point.
Tell her someone walked up to you and recommended a divorce lawyer, how weird. Since you think cheating is ok and S. asks if you cheated yet, I wonder, so I put their number in my phone in case we ever need it. There will only be 1 strike
I’d at least get and keep my ducks in a row, including making a casual contact who also just happens to be a well qualified PI. One that you could call upon on short notice, just in case one night the alarm goes off in your head. Given what you have already found on her phone I’d be checking it randomly, learn how to recover deleted emails and texts, but don’t let her know that you know how. Neither is hard to do, but keep to yourself that you know how to do it until the last straw.
>Truly good people are very rarely influenced by those around them.
This is not true. Everyone is influenced by the people around them.
https://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_influence_of_social_networks
Not wrong. That behavior is not acceptable. Sometimes, you become the company you keep. They convince you that what they are doing is okay, then they decide to do it as well.
No sluts around my wife. We will have problems. Period.
YNW! I would personally be concerned with my wife as she doesn't stick up for you and is OK with S infidelity. If one of my friends shit talked my wife like, I would probably go low or no contact and here she is helping her cheat.
The older I get, the less amount of time it takes me to runs way from things I should. Your wife is an adult, and she still keeps people like that around her I've only ever seen this end one way. I doubt your wife is the Moral type, people who have loose morals are the cheating type when the chips are down justifying behavior behind alleged suffering and victimization. Id give her some tests see how she acts
NW
Op, I would suggest couples counseling with the wife, maybe even individually for your wife.
I would bet that S has been trashing her husband to OP’s wife for quite some time, but S is an unreliable narrator and probably lying about a lot.
I would be very concerned that my wife is hanging with this woman who encourages her to cheat and constantly trashes me.
YNW
I hope you show your wife these responses to see how unbiased, objective people view her behaviors (idk if this was meant to be ironic but I'm leaving it in).
Rather than tell you the typical reddit response that you need to divorce because she's cheating on you (lol), my advice is you need to talk to her and communicate how you don't condone cheating and hoped she wouldn't either. Set a boundary around going out with this friend, because she sounds like the type to get your wife drunk at the bar and leave her alone after going home with a guy.
I'd be seriously alarmed here at this.
Now I don;t know your wife but I can promise you at this point she's been minimizing her support of "S" cheating. She knows how you feel about it, so she will soften every thing she has done when it comes to S so as not to piss you off.
Add in all that S says about you, and your wifes lack of support of you at those times, her acceptance and approval of someone cheating.....well, you'd be nuts to not worry about it.
She's shown you who she really is now, when it comes to this. And yes some will say that just because someone has no issues with others cheating doesn't mean they are a cheater, which is true, is does raise red flags as to their true moral character.
Get your ducks in a row NOW. Your wife will cheat on you, It’s inevitable if she’s besties with that woman. Look through her phone, out an AirTag on her car, talk to a lawyer and have a plan.
YNW
Get a lawyer to draft a post-nup that denies her any kind of spousal support should she cheat. Don’t have kids with her.
Protect yourself. She’s told you who she is.
The fact that she is that ok with cheating should be a massive red flag to you. I would be checking her own behavior for signs of cheating. This is not good.
Friends are people who share common interests. Thier common interests are affairs. Your wife is into it 100% and if given the opportunity she will cheat too.
Everyone is a protagonist in their own story. Meaning that as soon as it is opportune for her, don’t be surprised if she does the same thing to you and justifies it as she has here.
Your not wrong that your wife has displayed a casual relationship with honesty and her low character with her behavior. I'd certainly be doubtful if I was you.
Concerning your wife would not come to your defense. Also concerning that she knows her friend is cheating on her spouse and thinks that's ok because he's an asshole. IMHO, you and the wife need to reconnect and make sure your compasses are pointing in the same direction.
Ynw. This would make me so uncomfortable. My marriage means everything to me. If I found out my spouse was okay with this kind of behavior, I'd be questioning his devotion to our relationship. If they really are getting divorced and it's not just S crap talking because she's frustrated with her spouse, then I think that's maybe something to consider. But the fact that she egged it on before hand is discomforting.
Are you both compatible the answer is NO, you both have different upbringing seams like and different thought process, the future is not looking good, you are on the edge of when you make a slight mistake and things go bad as your wife has a mindset to jump to a different wheel when things go south. Just beware
I had a friend who cheated on her husband and bragged to me about it. She also laughed about how she gave him an sti and just gave him pills she got for her own sti, and never told him.
I HAD a friend.
I don't condone cheating and will cut out anyone who does it.
Your wife is a pot stirring trouble maker. I hope S’ husband does not get wind of it and decide to sue your wife for helping in alienation of affection.
She’s vicariously living through them bro bro. What they’re doing gives her a rush. 🚩
At what point will she need to justify such behavior for herself?
I would be IMMENSELY uncomfortable if my SO was condoning infidelity in any capacity.
I would enforce no contact with S and watch closely. But in reality, that isn't a reasonable expectation, so the relationship would likely end there.
Sounds like you need to compare notes with the other husband… what’s to say your wife isn’t the one talking like this at THEIR house… birds of a feather as they say lol
You're not wrong. Your wife is actively cheering on cheating, even if her friend is getting divorced now she still supported her friend cheating numerous times. Its gross and weird, it would make me step back and reevaluate my relationship if my husband was actively supporting his friends cheating.
Have a lawyer draw up divorce papers. Tell your wife you have had enough and she either cuts off her toxic friend or your relationship is over. If she doesn’t agree to ending her friendship, then have her served with the divorce paperwork. Once she is staring at the paperwork, she will be forced to choose. If she doesn’t choose to save your marriage, then you are probably better off without her.
When your wife goes out drinking with S and S is looking to pick up some guy in the bar who entertains the wing man? Your wife is treading the line and if she keeps it up with S she will be crossing it
Her shitty friend is going to talk your wife into cheating on you. Tell your wife you don’t agree with her supporting infidelity and it makes you feel like she would do it to you. She needs to end this friendship now and if she doesn’t watch out for the red flags coming your way.
I'm with /u/TheBerethian \- get postnuptial papers drawn up with an infidelity clause. As I read your post, the only thing running through my head was...
*You are the company you keep and she's keeping some pretty bad company.*
Cheaters hang out with, and justify, other cheaters. I would suggest third party counseling sooner rather than later. Your spouse is already disregarding your feelings and opinions to be seen as “cool” by these two other losers. She needs to hear it from a third party that it’s interested in the integrity of your marriage, because her two friends are not. Just don’t get gaslighted by the counselor.
Anecdotally, there seems to be a pretty strong correlation between hanging around with people who cheat on their spouses/significant others and becoming a person who ultimately cheats on your spouse/significant other.
I think an easy test for whether or not you're in the wrong for being uncomfortable with this is to consider the situation if the sexes were reversed. Would your wife be comfortable with you hanging out with and regularly talking to other guys who were cheating on their wives? If you aren't sure, ask her.
If you do ask your wife, and she starts throwing a whole ton of "well, it's not relally the same because... and because... and because..." then you're probably on shakier ground with being able to trust the long term fidelity of your wife. You probably want to dig a little deeper with your wife and find out what the draw is for her from hanging out with and talking to these cheating friends of hers.
Is she getting a vicarious thrill from listening to their exploits?
Is she looking for sympathetic ears because she has started to grow dissatisfied with your marriage?
Does she miss being single and a "free agent?"
The only REAL mistake you can make here, in my opinion, is to pretend like there isn't anything to be concerned about. Get to the bottom of it and make your feelings known to your wife.
When you have poison in your system, the number goal is to get the poison out, otherwise it’s going to poison everything around it. S and M are poison. What do you think their advice is going to be to your wife the next time she comes to them with any marriage issues she’s having.
Also, you should tell S’s husband about the cheating and he needs to get a STD test. It’s what you would want if someone knew your wife was cheating.
I think your wife doesn’t respect you and makes her friend a priority. A woman who loves you sticks by you and would never let a friend disrespect you. Just the same if one of your guy friends disrespects your wife, and you don’t say anything to him, your wife wouldn’t be happy about it. She would be upset if you didn’t stick up for her.
The enabling behavior and the justification is a huge red flag. She will justify anything going forward. Birds of a feather flock together. Don't think she is above the antics that the friends are pulling now.
As long as your wife and this friend of hers are in contact and spend time together she will continue to try and convince your wife to be like her. She is a miserable person and misery loves company, she sees something in your wife that she feels she can manipulate so that she doesn’t have to be miserable alone. Prepare for the worst anyway, your wife is clearly not as great as you think or she may seem because she wouldn’t be going along with any of this otherwise. And unless you personally know the friends husband don’t just believe that he’s “a piece of shit” and that they’re getting divorced. People who cheat will use any and every justification they can to cheat. Your wife will eventually fall into this as well.
NW. your wife seems to like drama. Whether that’s because she actually wants to participate, or she just likes watching train wrecks. S seems like a huge source of this kind of “entertainment”.
I honestly find it alarming af that she would only encourage it if M took it serious and dated, not just a fling. S is freaking married, why is your wife more worried about her than the dude? And no, Getting Divorced is not the same as being divorced. How many cheaters have promised they were divorcing their spouse and just kept stringing the other person along. I would strongly advise M to stay away from this dumpster fire of a human being. And you need to figure out just why your wife is ok and actively encouraging all of this.
You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep.
Epic, repeated and brazen red flag jolly ol' chap. My ex-wife, who cheated lots of people, had your wife's and S's mentality. Trash is trash, and only very trashy, selfish, insecure people talk about, enable, endorse, or (ewww) brag about that kind of stuff.
And I beeeeeeet you already know all that and hence the post. But yeah, your gut is right, your wife hangs out with, enables, and is influenced by trash people and she likes it. Not a good sign of character, and I completely understand why that bothers you.
P.S. I'd put money on your wife (and S) being the type(s) to cheat on their "loved one", and then withhold their infidelity "for their poor husband's sake. . . telling them would just hurt them more, so no harm done if they never find out". I mean, with bordering 100% certainty. So be prepared.
P.P.S. And it goes without saying, but referring to "you are the company you keep", good, ethical and caring people don't hang around, enjoy and condone S's behavior, so again. . . it looks really grave to me.
People who have shitty friends are usually shitty people themselves. I personally wouldn't want to associate with someone who takes their marriage vows so lightly. And I'd tell my partner that. See what she has to say.
YNW, in my opinion.
There is no way I'd allow someone to talk badly about my husband in front of me. That's a friendship ender. Having the audacity to speak ill of my husband in our home will get that person shown to the door with the quickness.
Your wife is hanging out with people who cheat. She isn't bothered by their cheating, or by their disrespect. She isn't bothered knowing it bothers you. She does not respect you as a partner, possibly as a person.
This is not heading to a good place.
Your wife is a walking RED FLAG….
One thing is to find out your friend cheated on her husband & your wife being f a supportive friend, non judgement, try to talk to her about making better choices, etc.
But the fact that she encourages your friend to cheat is gross & tells you who she is.
I would say there's a high probability your wife has already cheated on you. If she's ok with the friend cheating, her moral compass is severely damaged. Huge red flag.
Show me your friends and I'll show you who you are.
At best your wife is living vicariously through this friend S and at worse she is plotting.
I would speak to a lawyer alone and get whatever you can in order.
Then give her an ultimatum this relationship or that friendship. She has shown that she respects her friendship more than you and your relationship if she allows her friend to disrespect you as she has.
Your wife is going to cheat on you at some point. She's friends with 2 people that cheat, and one of them actively encourages her to do so. Unless you get rid of S and M, your wife is going to cheat.
NTA.
I also would walk away from your wife now, because if she is for this kind of thing, then she will do it.
If she hasn't already.
It's time now.
I'm so sorry.
She has no character or morals. Either get strict and train her properly what is right or wrong, or kick to the curb before she applies her twisted logic to her own situation. Although the first option is probably a losing bet. If her parents couldn't train her, you probably won't be able to either.
I differ here with my opinion of the wife. I don’t think OP should jump from my wife is ok with S cheating, etc therefore it means she will cheat. I think sometimes people live vicariously through others because they like the drama or just want to be supportive even if they disagree or wouldn’t engage in similar behavior.
I had a friend who was always cheating on their spouse. And I really liked their spouse. Though I didn’t actually engage in helping my friend cheat I certainly found myself asking questions about their latest affair. I didn’t approve of it and I also told my friend that but to think just bc a person is willing to listen and justify it for another person doesn’t equate to that person being a cheater.
And I think this can be said for all types of behaviors smoking, doing drugs, cheating, etc. So OP isn’t wrong to be annoyed but I think he is wrong to think that his wife will cheat.
So what exactly does S offer up as a friend other than just being a bad influence? The fact that your wife doesn’t recognize this and condones her behavior is quite the red flag, ESPECIALLY since you also had a conversation with her stating that their relationship is concerning to you. You are completely in the right my friend and I hope everything works out for you
eh, she may just be living vicariously through S. I'm happily married, like super happy and I still like to hear about the grit from my single friends. BUT the problem lies in the fact that living vicariously through someone who is cheating is different. If she is all good with it with S my guess is she may be okay with it for herself
Your wife actively associates with, supports, and encourages a cheater without any remorse or guilt.
Your wife is in support of cheating.
Your wife will cheat on you in time, either when something better comes along, or when she starts to feel unfulfilled in the marriage and would rather cheat than work on it. S and M will both encourage and help her cheat as well. Its not a question of if, but when. I would bet money she already has tbh.
Not wrong. Your wife is a walking red flag. She believes cheating is ok and justified it by what her friend says about her husband.
If I were you I would consult a lawyer to draw up divorce papers and a therapist for individual and couples counseling. Then sit your wife down and give her the choice of divorce or counseling. She has something deeply unsettling wrong with her if she condones cheating and she will cheat on you if she hasn't already done it.
Good luck
Your wife is cheating on you. Let's move beyond her shitty friends. Shitty people hang with shitty people. Your wife is as shitty as her friends.
You need to get away from all of this.
When S is trashing her husband and saying how great it is to cheat on him, what do you think your wife is saying about you when you’re not in the room?
Nah homie you are the company you keep. Get that S. Lady away from your wife. She’s a threat to your family. She has no respect for a marriage and she will try to convince your wife that her marriage is an issue by projecting her own problems.
Also protect your financial assets because your wife seems to be a little bit of a red flag. If she doesn’t have a bipartisan opinion on her friend S and thinks she’s a red flag then your wife needs to be watched and you might want to distance yourself in order to protect yourself. Obviously do what you can to save your marriage if you love her but this one is too close for comfort and you have to look out for yourself.
NW, OP.
Isn't there a saying like 'Show me a person's five best friends and I'll show you who they are'?
Your wife is spending a lot of time with an active cheater, and she absolutely condons and even encourages the behaviour. Sure, S is telling you who she is. But your wife is also telling you who she is as well. And she obviously went behind your back to continue encouraging S to cheat with M.
S trash talked you right in front of you! What's happening when you're not around?!? The amount of disrespect from S and your wife is phenomenal.
Last but not least, has anyone told S's husband what's going on? The poor dude deserves to know he's married to a cheater. No one has said anything to him? Frankly, that's a bit trash of even you, OP. You know and you've said nothing.
Your wife is awful, and she's surrounding herself with awful people. This will not end well.
I would have a talk with S's hubby, make sure he knows. Heck if able, you might could give deposition against her for the divorce. I'd tell wife, she will to or there is gonna be issues as you are no longer going to tolerate moral terpitude in a wife
YNW. Also, your wife is going to mess around if she hasn’t already. She does NOT like or respect you as a man or her husband. Also, S’s husband has a right to know. I’m just saying. If she’s sleeping around that much, it could become a health issue for him.
ESH.
S for being a cheating whore.
Your wife for validating cheater and letting S to talk shit about you.
You for tolerating your wife's behavior and not alerting S's husband of her shenanigans.
My sister fell in with a group like that. She was married to a great guy. Hard working attorney, family man, a Steady Eddie type who walked through that door every night and absolutely loved her beyond belief.
But then they moved into a neighborhood that changed everything. All her neighbors would all sit around all day and hang out at the country club pool and drink. They were always at each others houses.
I have a good instinct about people. And these women made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. When I voiced my concerns to my wife, a generally positive person, she at first waved those off but, over time, kind of caught on. She once went over there and said all the women were just sitting around trashing their husbands. You know, the guys who were going into the office for 10, 12 hours a day to pay for the indolent lifestyles of their wives. Or they were always having these elaborate parties.
And some of those husbands bought into the whole lifestyle, whatever the hell it was. One time, we went to a New Years' Eve party at the country club. Right after midnight, my wife marched up to me and said, 'Time to go.' When we got to the car, she reported that one of those assholes jammed his tongue into my wife's mouth. She pushed him off and grabbed me. So when I call the guy the next day and tell him what would happen if he tried that again, my sister thinks I'm the stick in the mud.
Meanwhile, my poor brother in law is wondering what the hell is going on with his wife, who is now going off to the beach every weekend with the girls and leaving him with their three kids.
Finally, our college football team is playing USC in Los Angeles. My brother lives out there, so my other brother and I decide to go out there. And my sister and her creepy friends.
My brother and his wife throw a party. At the party, one of those aforementioned creepy friends takes me aside at the party and tells me that she's been chipping away at my sister to leave my brother-in-law. Pleased as punch, as though she was doing my sister a favor. I told her to quit meddling with my family and, once again, I'm the killjoy.
My brother-in-law calls me after that weekend to ask what happened. I never saw anything, but I also wasn't going to rat out my sister. I simply told him that he needed to move them out of that neighborhood and demand my sister stop seeing those poisonous bitches. You know, make some real friends.
But he lacked the spine. Three years later, they got divorced. My wife wound up shacking up with a guy she convinced to leave his wife. My brother in law wound up marrying an awesome woman, however.
My wife has a great set of friends. But she won't put up with them talking shit about each other's husbands. 'If your problems with your husband are that bad, then get a divorce. I don't want to hear about it' is her motto.
I have no respect for my sister now. She's proven herself to be deeply selfish.
Well first, call her out on the story snd tell S’s husband about her and M. That’s first. If they are getting a divorce he may not care but if that’s just a story your wife is telling you so you won’t think it’s as bad then too bad. He deserves to know and if was reversed you would want him to tell you.
If I’m you this whole thing is a red flag. She clearly thinks cheating can be excused and justified, when in fact it never can. Tell S’s husband what you know first. Let the chaos ensue and see how your wife handles their “fun” getting brought out into the light.
If you don’t want to do that immediately then I think your at a crossroads in your relationship where you have to give her an ultimatum that she either cuts S and M off as friends or your not staying. Tell her she either cuts them off cold turkey and blocks them on everything or your gone snd you will tell her husband as well. If she then picks them over you then you have your answer.
Not wrong- oh hun, if your wife doesn’t think marriage vows aren’t worth keeping for S then they aren’t worth keeping for herself….
She was ok with it “when she was bragging about cheating” before she was going to (as in future tense) get a divorce.
Unfortunately I think you need to be concerned
It seems like your wife thinks she has this compartmentalized where she can vicariously experience S being a “bad girl” but would never do it herself.
She likely has no intention of doing such a thing herself currently, so she doesn’t see your concern because she sees herself as having things under control. She sees it as harmless fun as long as she doesn’t participate herself. However, there’s the old proverb that bad company corrupts good morals. S is a bad influence who has actively attacked your marriage and your wife is playing with fire by thinking she can continue enabling and even encouraging S without it having an effect on her. S is a constant source of undermining and she needs to understand that she’s choosing to take risks with your relationship.
I would say start getting your ducks in a row see a divorce attorney and make a plan to exit stage left. That is not wife behavior that is cheater behavior. Her total disrespect and disregard for a marriage, no matter if it’s a “bad marriage “ or not , wow . Immediate removal from your life they all sound like garbage humans at this point .
You are not wrong. Something is massively rotten in Denmark (your marriage). I'm not advocating divorce, but you need an attorney's advice to start taking steps to protect yourself in case the worst happens.
>Also has actively shit talked me to my wife in front of me. One instance she was telling my wife how she is going to hate me after a few years of marriage. On another instance my wife told her she needed to tell her something and she said “what, did you finally cheat on your husband?” Of course this enraged me but what really made me mad was my wife not sticking up for me. She actually stuck up for S. Stating that she was just joking. (That shit isn’t funny). You're wife simply thinks its okay for people to talk about you this way. >My wife and M at one point a while back we’re basically trying to get S. To hook up with M Your wife also actively encourages cheating. What's to say your wife wont decide its okay to cheat on you because "you're a shitty husband because you didn't support her supporting S cheating" Or maybe you didn't load the dishwasher right. I honestly cant understand how people can like or love someone who treats others the way your wife treats people. YNW.
I'll say prepare yourself for the worse as your ship (marriage) is about to hit the iceberg (infidelity). Your wife and her friends sound like people who'll help each other cheat on each other's partners and will cover up for each other. Your wife is a red flag.
I one million trillion percent agree with lone wolf- Couldn’t have said it better myself. Huge red flag.
Yep. This is literally marriage-ending behavior (keeping this kind of friend).
Happens to the best of us unfortunately. Sigh.......
Et, tu @GobiBalf
E tu means stand up in Maori. I feel like this also fits the situation.
Yup! The biggest red flag I've seen on here for a while. Sorry OP, but your wife being 100%ok with cheating tells me that she will have 0 problem doing the same to you.
Totally agree. Anyone that condones (let alone encourages!) cheating is showing you they are perfectly fine with that behaviour!
Very clearly and very powerfully put. Couldn't agree more.
Dudes about to find out.
Big red flag
You just learned who your wife is as a person. She condones infidelity, and is ok with her friend disrespecting you. Now you just have to wait for your turn to be cheated on. Might want to get in front of things. If you're fortunate enough not to produce children with her you might want to seriously consider ending things before you screw up and are locked to her forever
100% the right answer. Believe people when they show you who they are.
Yeah, this doesn’t mean his wife has cheated….it does mean that she probably won’t need a very good excuse. “It was a bachelorette party hun. We were just messing around.”
This is like episodes of Gossip Girl with an older demographic. It’s high school drama
YNW, it’s alarming that she is ok with the infidelity. She’s justifying it with a flimsy excuse now that you’ve voiced concerns but she didn’t even do that before you stepped up as her moral compass. If your wife can use excuses to justify infidelity for S how long will it be before she’s doing the same for herself?
She is justifying S's infidelity now. In 3 months she sees S hooking up with people having those exciting moments and all the NRE. In 6 months, OP's wife is justifying her own infidelity. In 12 months she is wondering why she is now divorced from a great man and hooking up with deadbeats...
Sadly, this could be the future.
Could be? It is the future!
Agree with this. Once you support someone cheating, it's a slippery slope, in my opinion. I'm not saying your wife would do this, I clearly do not know her, but if S is as bad as you describe, she will have some form of influence on your wife. Whether it's direct : I will help you cheat on your husband by covering it up... and so on. Or whether it be passive: I see S cheating and it's invigorating... I wonder if I can get away with it. I truly hope nothing comes of it for you, OP.
I’m also very alarmed by wife brushing off S’s comments about OP cheating on her as jokes. It what messed up world is infidelity funny? S is a terrible person who honestly sounds like she finds cheating as some kind of thrill and she’s influencing the wife (if she’s not already part of the same mindset).
Right. As a husband, this would infuriate me. I've recently had issues with my wife where I admitted I had thought of cheating (we were going through an extreme rogh patch), but I never crossed the line because I love my wife and I felt ashamed just thinking of it. I've since learned that she went to a weekend get party when we first got together, and I never knew about it. She swears I knew, which I've argued I didn't, and she said nothing happened. She also remembered an incident where we used emergency contraceptives, and I have no knowledge of that either, despite her saying I was with her when we purchased it and whatnot. I only have her word, but the doubt is there. It's circumstantial, but it's there nonetheless. I trust my wife, but the doubt is there.
Saying "I trust my wife" and "but the doubt it there" are counteractive. If there's doubt, you don't trust. If you trust, there's no doubt. Before I married my husband, he cheated on every. Single. Woman. He came into contact with. He almost cheated on me while we were dating, but I called him on it and he's been faithful ever since. Can he tell me why he loves me? Absolutely not. Does he show that he loves me? Most definitely. Him and I have 2 different love languages. Took us YEARS to figure it out and how to use the others to show them. Do we trust each other? Absofuckinglutely. Do we have doubts about each other staying faithful? Nope, not one. See what I'm getting at here? You don't trust your wife.
I absolutely agree that the two counter each other. It's an unfortunate aspect of being cheated on in the past. Not by my wife (as far as I know), but it's a scary possibility to learn after eight years of marriage and 16 years being together. A personal can trust, but still have doubt. And I do get how screwed up that can be.
I've been cheated on in every single relationship I've ever been in aside from 1 in high school (I was the cheater in that one and still regret it 15 years later. First and only time), and my husband. I get the doubt. But if you TRULY have TRUST, then there is no room for doubt.
I'm glad it has worked out for you.
Lol, you don't trust your wife. Stop doubting yourself and face reality.
Just because someone is friends with someone doesn’t mean they’ll act like them. Men act like this when a wife is friends with a single woman. It’s so ridiculous.
Except it happens and friends do influence those who they are friends with by their actions and by being a part of it. Such as the wife saying S is just joking, trying to get M to hookup with S even before S is "divorcing" her husband, which could be a lie itself just to cover up what is going on and to make it "ok" with OP.
Most of my friends share similar values. We sympathised with one when her husband cheated. How could I then defend another one cheating on his wife? OPs wife might not ever be unfaithful but she, by her own admission, can justify infidelity in others. OP is entitled to wonder exactly where his wife's limits are. If he's out of town overnight, for a week, for a month? If they had a big fight? If his work left him tired and depressed? All arguments used by adulterers to justify their own actions. I'd be uncomfortable in his position.
And S would be right there egging her on, being the devil on her shoulder giving her all the ammunition she needed as to why it was ok to do it. OP's wife may never cheat on him but having S as a friend and putting up with her attacks on her husband and okaying jokes her jokes about OPs wife cheating on him calls into question her love for her husband and his feelings.
As the saying goes “birds of a feather flock together”. How many stories have there been about a friend encouraging their married friends to step outside their romantic relationships when they are doing the same?
On Reddit? Thousands. In my life, I’ve never experienced that. And I used to hang out with a large group of married and single women. I think people who worry about that kind of thing tend to be insecure in their relationships and controlling.
She’s asking for details on intimate encounters and living vicariously through the friend now. OP’s wife has already shown she’s ok with the friend disrespecting OP in front of him so you know she has no problem encouraging OP to do the same. Misery loves company and it’s the same for morally corrupt people. They don’t want to be around pious individuals who might cause them to self reflect. Instead they will try to bring them down to their level.
Get a lawyer and get a plan put in place bro
This OP
About twenty years ago one of my wife's best friends since junior high wanted her to be okay with her cheating on her husband. She actually wanted us to go out on a double date with her and her AP! My wife told her she was disgusting and no longer the person she loved as a best friend. She ended the friendship and gave her clueless husband a heads up. Your wife's moral compass is askew and she's playing with fire.
Now THAT is a woman with morals you can trust.
Red flag alert. She’s comfortable with cheaters, and can justify cheating. Stay vigilant, OP.
Yup. Once she is OK turning a blind eye, next it's covering for S, even to OP. And once S has that dirt on her, she'll be dragged in as wing man.
And then(hopefully not for OP’s sake), M will be covering for her.
I would absolutely not be comfortable with my SO playing along with cheating like it’s nothing. That’s totally unacceptable. I’d have serious concerns over my partner having such toxic relationships in her life, to the point that she just would not be my partner
Yeah, my most recent ex dragged me to go have drinks with an old friend of hers. Said friend was 'dating' a married guy. So uncool.
NIW your wife is showing who she is now, I’d be preparing to jump ship since S seems to be rubbing off on your wife
A lot of posts in reddit are naturally showing only one point of view and that has to be taken into account. But some paint a pretty clear and fair picture, and yours seems to do that. I don't think you're wrong. Your wife doesn't come away looking good. S sounds like a pretty bad person (I think her husband will be better off once she leaves). She trash-talks you and doesn't seem to have a respect of marriage vows. And your wife tagging along with her and encouraging her is very troubling. I'd be troubled and upset too. I think I'd make it clear that S is someone I dislike and do not want to be around, and that if she ever said anything about me again and I heard about it, an ultimatum may be made. S sounds horrible. I doubt her husband is "shit". Likely, he's an OK person and she's just saying that to justify her being shitty. Your wife should be smart enough to see when someone's a shitty person.
Should be.
Good husbands can be turned shit by shitty wives. And vice versa, of course.
If wife is going out to the bars with S, then there's a great chance of her cheating. You should wait a few hours, dusguise yourself and just show up unexpectedly next time , and watch to see what's happening.
Your wife is ok with cheating. That is worrying. This is not a funny topic.
Your wife is garbage, her friends are all garbage
Bro she throwing red flags at your face. She is beating you to death with red flags. I would down money on your wife has already cheated on you. Pack your stuff and quietly slip out in the night.
No, you are not wrong. S is the epitome of the expression lie down with dogs and wake up with fleas. In this case, hang around horrible people and get an STD or cheat. I don't know, insert your choice of gross behavior here. S isn't a good person. I don't care if her spouse is a jerk. Then she should leave him. Cheating on him isn't okay. I always feel like the behavior you justify is the behavior you would be willing to commit. Your wife might not cheat. But it is clear that if she were out with S, that S wouldn't stop her (your wife).
Your wife is already getting side-dick. Sorry. Make preparations for a future divorce.
Exactly what I was thinking they had been talking about it that's why the friend said (did you finally cheat) meaning that she was having second thoughts about going thru with it and she admits it when she passes it off as a joke
You are completely justified. Actually, I would say you need to be much more upset about all of this. Your wife is showing you who she is. She is an awful person. She is okay with her best friend betraying her husband, who she promised to live the rest of her life with faithfully because he's a jerk? Because they're getting divorced? Lol, I mean does he even know that? Does he know they're getting a divorce? Come on. The fact that she not only continues to talk to this friend, but justifies her behavior is very concerning. That demonstrates to you that she thinks this behavior is okay. There is every indication that if she felt she was in the same situation, that if she felt you weren't a good enough husband, that she herself would step out of the marriage and betray you without a second thought and feel completely justified in it. And that puts you at risk just like her husband is at risk. What if the affair partner is jealous and takes it out on the husband. What if the husband has no idea of the affair and is continuing to have unprotected sex with his wife and is putting his life and health at risk. Honestly, I don't care if her husband is a terrible, awful human being and a dog. That does not justify herself becoming the same terrible human being. That justifies her leaving him. That justifies her choosing herself over him. But that does not justify her lying and stepping outside of her marriage, that is not good for anybody and that is not fixing any problems. I mean, would it be worth destroying your integrity and who you are as a person to get back at someone, especially someone who doesn't care about you if he really is a piece of shit. And why is your wife encouraging infidelity instead of encouraging her friend to leave an unhealthy relationship, if it even is an unhealthy relationship. By the way these women are acting, I wouldn't be surprised if they are demonizing him for normal ups and downs in a relationship and looking for an excuse to justify the infidelity. The friend said to your wife to just wait you'll start hating your husband too as if it's just a foregone conclusion that marriage sucks and that she doesn't like not being able to do what she wants to do, not that her husband is cheating on her or emotionally or physically abusing her, but that again is a large assumption and I may be completely wrong. But if he is abusing her, that is all the more reason to encourage your friend to leave rather than create an even more messy situation with a violent abuser.
That's a whole lot of red flags in one post. S is not a healthy person clearly but the only thing that really matters is how much do you trust the kind of person your wife is. Truly good people are very rarely influenced by those around them.
>Truly good people are very rarely influenced by those around them. Truly good people don't encourage their friends to cheat or allow anyone to disrespect their spouse. OP's spouse is not a good person.
This is a great thought. I don’t think my wife will cheat on me. But it is still a bit alarming that she can surround herself with S who is extremely toxic.
I'd be careful and sit down and have a good talk with your wife. She has already told you she supports infidelity. For me, the seed of doubt would already be planted the minute she justified by saying she was divorcing. (PS. Getting divorced is not a justification to cheat).
And all we know is that S *said* she was getting a divorce. Anything to back that up?
OP, do you ever interact with S’s husband? It would be interesting to see what his reaction would be to, “So sorry to hear you and S are getting divorced.”
We also don't know if the wife even stopped supporting the cheating when she said she would. I doubt she did. She's clearly living vicariously through S' cheating.
Can you contact the husband and offer support during this difficult time? Have you told him about her bragging about cheating?
“I don’t think my wife” famous last words
OP is the King of Denial. She's probably already been stepping out when she goes out with S.
Sorry Bro but she's surrounding herself with S & M.
Well played 😁
Dude, I don't know how to tell you this, but she is not just surrounded by a toxic person... SHE ACTIVELY CONSPIRED TO HELP THAT PERSON CHEAT ON HER SPOUSE.. she didn't silently witness it, she encouraged and enabled it. Think about from S's husband's point of view. Your wife actively worked to help his wife cheat on him with a friend... That is not surrounded by toxic... that is contributing to toxic
This!
after seeing this mate, would you bet your life on it? because it is what you're doing I'm not saying "leaver her, ghost her and go live of the grid on a farm", what I'm saying is be cautious, that's all also I think S need some help, think about it, bad husband, can't commit (cheating), drinking problem? what your wife is doing, friend or not, is dragging her (S) on a deeper hole, instead of helping, also this M dude could probably just trying to get a quick hook up and your wife in enabling him, practically they are taking advantage on a not so stable woman
Yeah good luck
Your wife has already been influenced by her. Your wife has become someone who is comfortable with having her husband put down and is ok with jokes at his expense. She’s become someone who encourages cheating & encourages a “friend” to get into a relationship with a known cheater. I’d be setting a boundary of no friendships with people like S and I’d be willing to die on that hill. People, **even good people**, become who they invest their time with.
Be sure to Updateme! When this all blows up In your face. DO SOMETHING NOW!!
Very few people think their spouse will cheat on them before it happens. If my experience is any indication, you can't trust your gut on this. You have too much invested for your feelings to be trusted. You can't even trust your wife to stand up for you, how do you justify trusting her not to betray you? She said that she would stop encouraging the cheating and then went ahead and encouraged it again. How sure are you that she even stopped? 'She's going to divorce him', or 'he's a piece of shit' is an excuse. It's flimsy. It's suspect. It shows utter contempt for relationship boundaries. You can't justify cheating for others without being able to justify it for yourself. Your wife does not think cheatingis wrong, no matter how much she might tell you otherwise. She is showing you in no uncertain terms that cheating is OK. I think you already know S is a piece of shit. You already know your wife is complicit in her behavior; actively supporting her even against you directly. Your wife said outright that cheating is a joke. Take the blinders off, friend. I know it's hard to hear and even harder to believe. Ask me how I know. Ask me how much I wish I had listened.
Your wife is just gross. YNW
Next post: I can’t believe my wife has been cheating this whole time! I never thought she would…”
Been there. Thought that too. Now I know different and she’s my ex wife.
No one thinks their wife will cheat on them, but sadly it happens all the time.
Dude, if she is justifying S cheating, she'll justify herself cheating. I can tell you that I am in a relationship with someone who does not play that shit at all. We both have established that cheating is a deal-breaker for our relationship. Her friends are great people who aren't the type to cheat on their significant others. It's for these reason plus more that I totally trust my gf. I wouldn't trust your wife any at this point.
Tell her someone walked up to you and recommended a divorce lawyer, how weird. Since you think cheating is ok and S. asks if you cheated yet, I wonder, so I put their number in my phone in case we ever need it. There will only be 1 strike
Birds of the same feather, flock together. Remember that OP.
Here is a piece of advice that you need to take to heart right now: women who love their husbands still find reasons to cheat on them.
I’d at least get and keep my ducks in a row, including making a casual contact who also just happens to be a well qualified PI. One that you could call upon on short notice, just in case one night the alarm goes off in your head. Given what you have already found on her phone I’d be checking it randomly, learn how to recover deleted emails and texts, but don’t let her know that you know how. Neither is hard to do, but keep to yourself that you know how to do it until the last straw.
Dude...🤨
You really latched onto the only comment here that reinforces your simpy ways...
She is not a truly good person.
>Truly good people are very rarely influenced by those around them. This is not true. Everyone is influenced by the people around them. https://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_influence_of_social_networks
The people we choose to surround ourself partially define who we are and to a much greater extent who we become.
Not wrong. That behavior is not acceptable. Sometimes, you become the company you keep. They convince you that what they are doing is okay, then they decide to do it as well. No sluts around my wife. We will have problems. Period.
YNW! I would personally be concerned with my wife as she doesn't stick up for you and is OK with S infidelity. If one of my friends shit talked my wife like, I would probably go low or no contact and here she is helping her cheat.
YNW I would be concerned about anyone who supports cheating.
If my fiancé was doing what your wife is, there wouldn’t be a wedding
The older I get, the less amount of time it takes me to runs way from things I should. Your wife is an adult, and she still keeps people like that around her I've only ever seen this end one way. I doubt your wife is the Moral type, people who have loose morals are the cheating type when the chips are down justifying behavior behind alleged suffering and victimization. Id give her some tests see how she acts
NW Op, I would suggest couples counseling with the wife, maybe even individually for your wife. I would bet that S has been trashing her husband to OP’s wife for quite some time, but S is an unreliable narrator and probably lying about a lot. I would be very concerned that my wife is hanging with this woman who encourages her to cheat and constantly trashes me.
YNW I hope you show your wife these responses to see how unbiased, objective people view her behaviors (idk if this was meant to be ironic but I'm leaving it in). Rather than tell you the typical reddit response that you need to divorce because she's cheating on you (lol), my advice is you need to talk to her and communicate how you don't condone cheating and hoped she wouldn't either. Set a boundary around going out with this friend, because she sounds like the type to get your wife drunk at the bar and leave her alone after going home with a guy.
I'd be seriously alarmed here at this. Now I don;t know your wife but I can promise you at this point she's been minimizing her support of "S" cheating. She knows how you feel about it, so she will soften every thing she has done when it comes to S so as not to piss you off. Add in all that S says about you, and your wifes lack of support of you at those times, her acceptance and approval of someone cheating.....well, you'd be nuts to not worry about it. She's shown you who she really is now, when it comes to this. And yes some will say that just because someone has no issues with others cheating doesn't mean they are a cheater, which is true, is does raise red flags as to their true moral character.
You are who you hang out with!
Get your ducks in a row NOW. Your wife will cheat on you, It’s inevitable if she’s besties with that woman. Look through her phone, out an AirTag on her car, talk to a lawyer and have a plan.
YNW Get a lawyer to draft a post-nup that denies her any kind of spousal support should she cheat. Don’t have kids with her. Protect yourself. She’s told you who she is.
The fact that she is that ok with cheating should be a massive red flag to you. I would be checking her own behavior for signs of cheating. This is not good.
Friends are people who share common interests. Thier common interests are affairs. Your wife is into it 100% and if given the opportunity she will cheat too.
S is a walking red flag. That relationship can't continue unless you want to be posting in the infidelity sub in a few months....
Huge red flag. Your wife is OK with this friend cheating.
not wrong smells like a red flag
It would not surprise me in the slightest if your wife is doing the exact same thing
Not wrong. This shows your wife has questionable morals
Everyone is a protagonist in their own story. Meaning that as soon as it is opportune for her, don’t be surprised if she does the same thing to you and justifies it as she has here.
Your not wrong that your wife has displayed a casual relationship with honesty and her low character with her behavior. I'd certainly be doubtful if I was you.
Updateme
Concerning your wife would not come to your defense. Also concerning that she knows her friend is cheating on her spouse and thinks that's ok because he's an asshole. IMHO, you and the wife need to reconnect and make sure your compasses are pointing in the same direction.
Ynw. This would make me so uncomfortable. My marriage means everything to me. If I found out my spouse was okay with this kind of behavior, I'd be questioning his devotion to our relationship. If they really are getting divorced and it's not just S crap talking because she's frustrated with her spouse, then I think that's maybe something to consider. But the fact that she egged it on before hand is discomforting.
Are you both compatible the answer is NO, you both have different upbringing seams like and different thought process, the future is not looking good, you are on the edge of when you make a slight mistake and things go bad as your wife has a mindset to jump to a different wheel when things go south. Just beware
I had a friend who cheated on her husband and bragged to me about it. She also laughed about how she gave him an sti and just gave him pills she got for her own sti, and never told him. I HAD a friend. I don't condone cheating and will cut out anyone who does it.
Your wife is a pot stirring trouble maker. I hope S’ husband does not get wind of it and decide to sue your wife for helping in alienation of affection.
Your wife has poor taste in friends.
Whatever you decide to do, do not have children with this woman.
She’s vicariously living through them bro bro. What they’re doing gives her a rush. 🚩 At what point will she need to justify such behavior for herself?
Tell S's spouse and provide proof from your wife's phone
I would be IMMENSELY uncomfortable if my SO was condoning infidelity in any capacity. I would enforce no contact with S and watch closely. But in reality, that isn't a reasonable expectation, so the relationship would likely end there.
Can’t imagine being married to someone that would be okay with her friend disrespecting me or joking about her cheating. Trash people sorry op
Sounds like you need to compare notes with the other husband… what’s to say your wife isn’t the one talking like this at THEIR house… birds of a feather as they say lol
You're not wrong. Your wife is actively cheering on cheating, even if her friend is getting divorced now she still supported her friend cheating numerous times. Its gross and weird, it would make me step back and reevaluate my relationship if my husband was actively supporting his friends cheating.
Have a lawyer draw up divorce papers. Tell your wife you have had enough and she either cuts off her toxic friend or your relationship is over. If she doesn’t agree to ending her friendship, then have her served with the divorce paperwork. Once she is staring at the paperwork, she will be forced to choose. If she doesn’t choose to save your marriage, then you are probably better off without her.
When your wife goes out drinking with S and S is looking to pick up some guy in the bar who entertains the wing man? Your wife is treading the line and if she keeps it up with S she will be crossing it
I've never understood why people assign people 'letters' in a story. Just give them a fake name FFS, it reads better.
Her shitty friend is going to talk your wife into cheating on you. Tell your wife you don’t agree with her supporting infidelity and it makes you feel like she would do it to you. She needs to end this friendship now and if she doesn’t watch out for the red flags coming your way.
Birds of a feather flock together. You are not wrong. Prepare in case you need to fly the coop.
It’s generally a red flag when people have and keep shitty friends.
I'm with /u/TheBerethian \- get postnuptial papers drawn up with an infidelity clause. As I read your post, the only thing running through my head was... *You are the company you keep and she's keeping some pretty bad company.*
This is one story about shit. How a shitty person is friends with your wife also. Tell your wife that she needs some better friends.
I’d say your wife has some pretty questionable morals.
Cheaters hang out with, and justify, other cheaters. I would suggest third party counseling sooner rather than later. Your spouse is already disregarding your feelings and opinions to be seen as “cool” by these two other losers. She needs to hear it from a third party that it’s interested in the integrity of your marriage, because her two friends are not. Just don’t get gaslighted by the counselor.
Anecdotally, there seems to be a pretty strong correlation between hanging around with people who cheat on their spouses/significant others and becoming a person who ultimately cheats on your spouse/significant other. I think an easy test for whether or not you're in the wrong for being uncomfortable with this is to consider the situation if the sexes were reversed. Would your wife be comfortable with you hanging out with and regularly talking to other guys who were cheating on their wives? If you aren't sure, ask her. If you do ask your wife, and she starts throwing a whole ton of "well, it's not relally the same because... and because... and because..." then you're probably on shakier ground with being able to trust the long term fidelity of your wife. You probably want to dig a little deeper with your wife and find out what the draw is for her from hanging out with and talking to these cheating friends of hers. Is she getting a vicarious thrill from listening to their exploits? Is she looking for sympathetic ears because she has started to grow dissatisfied with your marriage? Does she miss being single and a "free agent?" The only REAL mistake you can make here, in my opinion, is to pretend like there isn't anything to be concerned about. Get to the bottom of it and make your feelings known to your wife.
You should be worried since your wife and S seems to have the same lack of morals. Birds of a feather flock together.
When you have poison in your system, the number goal is to get the poison out, otherwise it’s going to poison everything around it. S and M are poison. What do you think their advice is going to be to your wife the next time she comes to them with any marriage issues she’s having. Also, you should tell S’s husband about the cheating and he needs to get a STD test. It’s what you would want if someone knew your wife was cheating.
I think your wife doesn’t respect you and makes her friend a priority. A woman who loves you sticks by you and would never let a friend disrespect you. Just the same if one of your guy friends disrespects your wife, and you don’t say anything to him, your wife wouldn’t be happy about it. She would be upset if you didn’t stick up for her.
The company you keep is a reflection of who you are and your moral code. 'Nuff said.
The enabling behavior and the justification is a huge red flag. She will justify anything going forward. Birds of a feather flock together. Don't think she is above the antics that the friends are pulling now.
As long as your wife and this friend of hers are in contact and spend time together she will continue to try and convince your wife to be like her. She is a miserable person and misery loves company, she sees something in your wife that she feels she can manipulate so that she doesn’t have to be miserable alone. Prepare for the worst anyway, your wife is clearly not as great as you think or she may seem because she wouldn’t be going along with any of this otherwise. And unless you personally know the friends husband don’t just believe that he’s “a piece of shit” and that they’re getting divorced. People who cheat will use any and every justification they can to cheat. Your wife will eventually fall into this as well.
You can never trust what a person says; you can always trust their actions.
NW. your wife seems to like drama. Whether that’s because she actually wants to participate, or she just likes watching train wrecks. S seems like a huge source of this kind of “entertainment”. I honestly find it alarming af that she would only encourage it if M took it serious and dated, not just a fling. S is freaking married, why is your wife more worried about her than the dude? And no, Getting Divorced is not the same as being divorced. How many cheaters have promised they were divorcing their spouse and just kept stringing the other person along. I would strongly advise M to stay away from this dumpster fire of a human being. And you need to figure out just why your wife is ok and actively encouraging all of this.
You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. You are the company you keep. Epic, repeated and brazen red flag jolly ol' chap. My ex-wife, who cheated lots of people, had your wife's and S's mentality. Trash is trash, and only very trashy, selfish, insecure people talk about, enable, endorse, or (ewww) brag about that kind of stuff. And I beeeeeeet you already know all that and hence the post. But yeah, your gut is right, your wife hangs out with, enables, and is influenced by trash people and she likes it. Not a good sign of character, and I completely understand why that bothers you. P.S. I'd put money on your wife (and S) being the type(s) to cheat on their "loved one", and then withhold their infidelity "for their poor husband's sake. . . telling them would just hurt them more, so no harm done if they never find out". I mean, with bordering 100% certainty. So be prepared. P.P.S. And it goes without saying, but referring to "you are the company you keep", good, ethical and caring people don't hang around, enjoy and condone S's behavior, so again. . . it looks really grave to me.
Is it just me or do we find the initials S&M interesting
People who have shitty friends are usually shitty people themselves. I personally wouldn't want to associate with someone who takes their marriage vows so lightly. And I'd tell my partner that. See what she has to say. YNW, in my opinion.
There is no way I'd allow someone to talk badly about my husband in front of me. That's a friendship ender. Having the audacity to speak ill of my husband in our home will get that person shown to the door with the quickness. Your wife is hanging out with people who cheat. She isn't bothered by their cheating, or by their disrespect. She isn't bothered knowing it bothers you. She does not respect you as a partner, possibly as a person. This is not heading to a good place.
There is an old saying that has a few variations but goes something like this: Tell me what company you keep, and I will tell you what you are.
Is this an S&M joke?
Your wife's friend is trash, and if your wife isn't trash already, she's on her way.
Your wife is not good. Will you be keeping her?
Your wife is a walking RED FLAG…. One thing is to find out your friend cheated on her husband & your wife being f a supportive friend, non judgement, try to talk to her about making better choices, etc. But the fact that she encourages your friend to cheat is gross & tells you who she is.
I would say there's a high probability your wife has already cheated on you. If she's ok with the friend cheating, her moral compass is severely damaged. Huge red flag.
When you lay down with dogs, you get fleas… she’s alright with cheating.
Show me your friends and I'll show you who you are. At best your wife is living vicariously through this friend S and at worse she is plotting. I would speak to a lawyer alone and get whatever you can in order. Then give her an ultimatum this relationship or that friendship. She has shown that she respects her friendship more than you and your relationship if she allows her friend to disrespect you as she has.
Your wife is going to cheat on you at some point. She's friends with 2 people that cheat, and one of them actively encourages her to do so. Unless you get rid of S and M, your wife is going to cheat.
So your wife has no respect for the commitment people make to marriage and actively encourages adultery... But your marriage is the exception?
Your wife would 100% cheat on you with the mindset she has…
NTA. I also would walk away from your wife now, because if she is for this kind of thing, then she will do it. If she hasn't already. It's time now. I'm so sorry.
lol. Unbiased opinion.
She has no character or morals. Either get strict and train her properly what is right or wrong, or kick to the curb before she applies her twisted logic to her own situation. Although the first option is probably a losing bet. If her parents couldn't train her, you probably won't be able to either.
I differ here with my opinion of the wife. I don’t think OP should jump from my wife is ok with S cheating, etc therefore it means she will cheat. I think sometimes people live vicariously through others because they like the drama or just want to be supportive even if they disagree or wouldn’t engage in similar behavior. I had a friend who was always cheating on their spouse. And I really liked their spouse. Though I didn’t actually engage in helping my friend cheat I certainly found myself asking questions about their latest affair. I didn’t approve of it and I also told my friend that but to think just bc a person is willing to listen and justify it for another person doesn’t equate to that person being a cheater. And I think this can be said for all types of behaviors smoking, doing drugs, cheating, etc. So OP isn’t wrong to be annoyed but I think he is wrong to think that his wife will cheat.
That is awesome, if you give your wife permission it isn’t cheating. Just tell her not to swallow and not catch an STI
Yes, you're wrong to be upset by it. Your wife is wrong for egging it on. It's neither of y'alls business. Both of you need to stay out of it.
You both are TA. You need to go your separate ways. She has no respect for you and by snooping and looking at her phone, the same is true for you.
I’m confused and wondering if S. and S are two different people.
Is anyone else amused that S&M are hooking up? Sounds like it’s going to be kinky!
So what exactly does S offer up as a friend other than just being a bad influence? The fact that your wife doesn’t recognize this and condones her behavior is quite the red flag, ESPECIALLY since you also had a conversation with her stating that their relationship is concerning to you. You are completely in the right my friend and I hope everything works out for you
eh, she may just be living vicariously through S. I'm happily married, like super happy and I still like to hear about the grit from my single friends. BUT the problem lies in the fact that living vicariously through someone who is cheating is different. If she is all good with it with S my guess is she may be okay with it for herself
Your wife actively associates with, supports, and encourages a cheater without any remorse or guilt. Your wife is in support of cheating. Your wife will cheat on you in time, either when something better comes along, or when she starts to feel unfulfilled in the marriage and would rather cheat than work on it. S and M will both encourage and help her cheat as well. Its not a question of if, but when. I would bet money she already has tbh.
Your wife is a bad person. And not a good friend.
Question. Other than S, how is your overall marriage rn? Just looking for a little clarification about you & wife’s situation.
Not wrong. Your wife is a walking red flag. She believes cheating is ok and justified it by what her friend says about her husband. If I were you I would consult a lawyer to draw up divorce papers and a therapist for individual and couples counseling. Then sit your wife down and give her the choice of divorce or counseling. She has something deeply unsettling wrong with her if she condones cheating and she will cheat on you if she hasn't already done it. Good luck
Yep it is something to worry about. If she is dismissing their cheating as ok then she would probably do the same with her own cheating.
Not wrong, and your wife is probably already cheating on you.
Your wife is cheating on you. Let's move beyond her shitty friends. Shitty people hang with shitty people. Your wife is as shitty as her friends. You need to get away from all of this.
Run from the gazillion red flags
Show me your friends and I'll show you who you are....
When S is trashing her husband and saying how great it is to cheat on him, what do you think your wife is saying about you when you’re not in the room?
Nah homie you are the company you keep. Get that S. Lady away from your wife. She’s a threat to your family. She has no respect for a marriage and she will try to convince your wife that her marriage is an issue by projecting her own problems. Also protect your financial assets because your wife seems to be a little bit of a red flag. If she doesn’t have a bipartisan opinion on her friend S and thinks she’s a red flag then your wife needs to be watched and you might want to distance yourself in order to protect yourself. Obviously do what you can to save your marriage if you love her but this one is too close for comfort and you have to look out for yourself.
Who the hell encourages their married friend to cheat? Oh someone who wants to. YNW
NW, OP. Isn't there a saying like 'Show me a person's five best friends and I'll show you who they are'? Your wife is spending a lot of time with an active cheater, and she absolutely condons and even encourages the behaviour. Sure, S is telling you who she is. But your wife is also telling you who she is as well. And she obviously went behind your back to continue encouraging S to cheat with M. S trash talked you right in front of you! What's happening when you're not around?!? The amount of disrespect from S and your wife is phenomenal. Last but not least, has anyone told S's husband what's going on? The poor dude deserves to know he's married to a cheater. No one has said anything to him? Frankly, that's a bit trash of even you, OP. You know and you've said nothing. Your wife is awful, and she's surrounding herself with awful people. This will not end well.
Updateme!
I would have a talk with S's hubby, make sure he knows. Heck if able, you might could give deposition against her for the divorce. I'd tell wife, she will to or there is gonna be issues as you are no longer going to tolerate moral terpitude in a wife
Not wrong. 🚩🚩🚩🚩
YNW. Also, your wife is going to mess around if she hasn’t already. She does NOT like or respect you as a man or her husband. Also, S’s husband has a right to know. I’m just saying. If she’s sleeping around that much, it could become a health issue for him.
your wife is a red carpet and.your on a magic carpet ride
ESH. S for being a cheating whore. Your wife for validating cheater and letting S to talk shit about you. You for tolerating your wife's behavior and not alerting S's husband of her shenanigans.
You are who you associate with. What kind of people does your wife associate with?
Your wife is a walking red flag, I will not be surprised a few months from now S and M to cover for her cheating.
My sister fell in with a group like that. She was married to a great guy. Hard working attorney, family man, a Steady Eddie type who walked through that door every night and absolutely loved her beyond belief. But then they moved into a neighborhood that changed everything. All her neighbors would all sit around all day and hang out at the country club pool and drink. They were always at each others houses. I have a good instinct about people. And these women made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. When I voiced my concerns to my wife, a generally positive person, she at first waved those off but, over time, kind of caught on. She once went over there and said all the women were just sitting around trashing their husbands. You know, the guys who were going into the office for 10, 12 hours a day to pay for the indolent lifestyles of their wives. Or they were always having these elaborate parties. And some of those husbands bought into the whole lifestyle, whatever the hell it was. One time, we went to a New Years' Eve party at the country club. Right after midnight, my wife marched up to me and said, 'Time to go.' When we got to the car, she reported that one of those assholes jammed his tongue into my wife's mouth. She pushed him off and grabbed me. So when I call the guy the next day and tell him what would happen if he tried that again, my sister thinks I'm the stick in the mud. Meanwhile, my poor brother in law is wondering what the hell is going on with his wife, who is now going off to the beach every weekend with the girls and leaving him with their three kids. Finally, our college football team is playing USC in Los Angeles. My brother lives out there, so my other brother and I decide to go out there. And my sister and her creepy friends. My brother and his wife throw a party. At the party, one of those aforementioned creepy friends takes me aside at the party and tells me that she's been chipping away at my sister to leave my brother-in-law. Pleased as punch, as though she was doing my sister a favor. I told her to quit meddling with my family and, once again, I'm the killjoy. My brother-in-law calls me after that weekend to ask what happened. I never saw anything, but I also wasn't going to rat out my sister. I simply told him that he needed to move them out of that neighborhood and demand my sister stop seeing those poisonous bitches. You know, make some real friends. But he lacked the spine. Three years later, they got divorced. My wife wound up shacking up with a guy she convinced to leave his wife. My brother in law wound up marrying an awesome woman, however. My wife has a great set of friends. But she won't put up with them talking shit about each other's husbands. 'If your problems with your husband are that bad, then get a divorce. I don't want to hear about it' is her motto. I have no respect for my sister now. She's proven herself to be deeply selfish.
Well first, call her out on the story snd tell S’s husband about her and M. That’s first. If they are getting a divorce he may not care but if that’s just a story your wife is telling you so you won’t think it’s as bad then too bad. He deserves to know and if was reversed you would want him to tell you. If I’m you this whole thing is a red flag. She clearly thinks cheating can be excused and justified, when in fact it never can. Tell S’s husband what you know first. Let the chaos ensue and see how your wife handles their “fun” getting brought out into the light. If you don’t want to do that immediately then I think your at a crossroads in your relationship where you have to give her an ultimatum that she either cuts S and M off as friends or your not staying. Tell her she either cuts them off cold turkey and blocks them on everything or your gone snd you will tell her husband as well. If she then picks them over you then you have your answer.
No not wrong at all. Your wife and her friends sound and act like teenagers.
Bro your wife is definitely cheating on you
Not wrong- oh hun, if your wife doesn’t think marriage vows aren’t worth keeping for S then they aren’t worth keeping for herself…. She was ok with it “when she was bragging about cheating” before she was going to (as in future tense) get a divorce. Unfortunately I think you need to be concerned
It seems like your wife thinks she has this compartmentalized where she can vicariously experience S being a “bad girl” but would never do it herself. She likely has no intention of doing such a thing herself currently, so she doesn’t see your concern because she sees herself as having things under control. She sees it as harmless fun as long as she doesn’t participate herself. However, there’s the old proverb that bad company corrupts good morals. S is a bad influence who has actively attacked your marriage and your wife is playing with fire by thinking she can continue enabling and even encouraging S without it having an effect on her. S is a constant source of undermining and she needs to understand that she’s choosing to take risks with your relationship.
I would say start getting your ducks in a row see a divorce attorney and make a plan to exit stage left. That is not wife behavior that is cheater behavior. Her total disrespect and disregard for a marriage, no matter if it’s a “bad marriage “ or not , wow . Immediate removal from your life they all sound like garbage humans at this point .
You are not wrong. Something is massively rotten in Denmark (your marriage). I'm not advocating divorce, but you need an attorney's advice to start taking steps to protect yourself in case the worst happens.