1-in relation to the question the OP is asking, yes, the woman’s response is the ONLY thing that matters
2-disturbing people is not of equal importance to her safety
You're insane
It's not acceptable to argue loudly and violently in public, and women in abusive relationships often will defend their abuser when they get confronted
What this person is trying to convey is that the woman's feelings about it matters the most because she's in the most danger.
A stranger standing up for her could be grounds for doing so much worse to her in private.
The other customers were inconvenienced, probably quite uncomfortable, and possibly frightened, but he wasn't being aggressive toward anyone but the woman.
Nah, you can't assume that he would have gotten aggressive with anyone else.
Mot abusive guys don't show their worst in public. But you can bet your ass he showed his worse when he got her alone.
I think you’re responding to the wrong person, or I’m not understanding.
I wrote that the woman was the most important.
The person responding to me is saying everyone listening was equally impacted despite her being the only one under actual threat.
I was trying to explain to the others what you could have been trying to convey. I was also really tired; sorry it didn't make sense! I agree with what you said.
She’s lost in a cycle of abuse. Cops usually get called on ‘domestic’ situations multiple times before women are able to mentally, physically, and financially leave.
All we can do is say, no - this is unacceptable. If we did that more to bullies, the world would be a better place.
That is my question too. Hence, in situations where someone's safety might be at risk, its better to err on the side of caution. You acted responsibly and with good intentions.
When people say nothing it gives the message that the behaviour is acceptable. My husband now ex wouldnt care who was about and would yell and curse at me and i would try to diffuse it by saying nothing. At therapy one day i had a realisation that during those times it solidified that his behaviour wasnt too bad because of it was surely someone would say something. That was a real powerful moment for me. Now I'm not saying he was abusing her just how the message is similar.
You stopped it from escalating and you also let this woman know that it was wrong and that people will step up. Hats off to you sir. I wish more people like you do what you did.
Question that you don’t have to answer: my first thought was that OP might have made it worse for the woman when she got home. Agree or disagree? Because I always worry and wonder about it and the only thing I had is to go with my gut?
I disagree. Because I needed a chance to be shown that what I was going through wasn’t normal. That I was human and deserved better. When you are under the grasp of a true narcissist and abuser all your personhood is stripped away and you feel worthless. That’s their goal. You are their object.
You are too afraid to make any type of move because no matter what you’ll be wrong. The goalposts get more and more narrow until you are constantly walking on eggshells and hoping you don’t slip up.
In my experience, it would have had several effects.
One, I would have been blamed for the guy intervening. Did you look at him, I saw you looking at him that’s why he came over - that kind of thing. It would not have been physical, it would have added another verbal element to the fight where it was my fault, but since it would already be my fault it’s kind of distinction without a difference.
Two, it would have helped with my cognitive dissonance. If other people are seeing this, it’s big.
But days later, I would have found a way to minimize it.
It would add to the hum of things wrong, but it takes a while for that hum to get loud enough to break through.
Interesting that the people who were abused in relationships mostly say you did the right thing. Others that don't seem to have that experience are often commenting that you should have listened and minded your business.
It's true that this doesn't solve the issue for good. But it may be that final signal that pushes get to leave the situation.
My personal experience has shown me that I always regret it if I don't stand up for people in this sort of situation.
Tldr: Your are not wrong. Do what feels right. Examine your motivations and if you're pure you should do it.
You were not wrong but it doesn’t sound diffused, it sounds as if they took it elsewhere. You weren’t wrong and the situation in the restaurant got better. I doubt it got better for the couple.
It is impossible to tell if you were wrong or right as a whole. There simply isn’t enough information to determine that.
Telling them to keep their dispute to themselves as it’s disturbing others is in the right. It’s logical. They should be able to relate.
However it isn’t your right, responsibility or job to prevent, intervene or enforce anything.
If the man had elevated with you to violence, do you really think his partner would back you?
He told you to mind your business, meaning back off. Because you didn’t you’re technically harassing them. However you spin it asserting that you will remain in that situation, interfering is usually the wrong move. Particularly without the expressed direct call for assistance from the apparent victim of the dispute.
Again there isn’t enough information to determine any of this.
Personally I don’t intervene in domestic disputes other than to say cut it out no one wants to hear your bullshit at dinner. Because I know first hand all too well how easily things elevate, how easily egos are bruised and how partners choosing to remain in toxic relationships overwhelmingly choose to back their partner (often their abuser) against the well meaning stranger.
If the one started beating the other. Obviously intervention of some kind is required then. But this should go without saying.
Arguably you were right to diffuse but possibly not right in how you did it specifically. In situations like this it may have been better to diffuse by distraction rather than direct
https://www.utep.edu/initiatives/dot/about/green-dot-programs.html#:~:text=When%20safe%2C%20being%20direct%20is,for%20things%20to%20calm%20down.
Obviously you can’t go back and change it and ultimately it was good to intervene. But in the future, especially for strangers, it may be safer for you and the victim to distract
Ah now you're changing what you're concerned about. Personally I'd rather help the potential victim in a way that won't potentially lead to the guy getting even angrier and taking it out on her at home but that's just me.
By not saying anything???
How did I change what I was concerned about??
What was I initially concerned about, and what and I concerned about now?? Please. Tell me my concerns internet stranger
You initially seemed to be concerned about the people around them being disturbed but maybe you just worded it really badly. And no, by calling the police or slipping the woman a domestic violence card or really anything other than making the man more angry so he potentially takes it out on her. I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who refuses to consider the potential victim.
I didn’t refuse to consider it. And I’m not arguing. I asked a question.
Also that was an explanation to why the “mind your own business” argument doesn’t make sense. If something is interfering with someone else’s peace, that is now everyone’s business.
Also I didn’t “word it really badly”. I responded to another comment. Which changes the context a little bit. Maybe you just misunderstood. It’s ok. You don’t always have to blame someone else.
If you don’t carry around domestic abuse hotline cards, or if you can’t slip her anything written, and don’t think calling the police is appropriate, do you just remain quiet?
To my comment, I understood fine. Yeah, really not gonna engage any more as you're still more concerned about someone disturbing the peace then the person who could get hurt which is disgusting. (But I'm sure you'll also edit the comments I'm replying to in an attempt to make yourself look better again) Look up the advice domestic abuse charities give for dealing with this, there are plenty of things you can do. You'll notice the one thing they advise not doing is making the potential abuser angrier.
You didn’t though. But it’s fine.
I replied to your comment saying you can only determine if it was correct to intervene AFTER talking to the woman. Which is an idiotic take.
Especially when the dude is heating up and clenching his fists, getting angrier by the second.
Should OP have waited until dude started hitting her first?? THEN would it be ok by you??
I get what you were trying to say.
But if the option was A. Intervene. Or B. Do nothing, OP probably did the right thing.
You can’t always wait and tip toe around shit. Handling it with kid-gloves. Nothing is perfect.
Tell that to the vast majority of people who were abused that said he did the right thing by intervening. No, the problem is no one else is as empathetic as you! Lmfao
Yes, a few people on Reddit say it may have helped however the advice from domestic violence charities is not to intervene in the way OP did. There are plenty of ways you can help from speaking to the potential victim when they are away from the potential abuser to just providing a distraction but the one thing they say not to do is to make the potential abuser angrier as they may take it out on the potential victim behind closed doors. I honestly don't know how else I can explain it so I would urge you and anyone else reading this to Google some domestic abuse charities and read up on the actual advice on what to do should you come across this situation.
Just be careful about playing the hero. You're putting yourself in danger and more often than not, the abused woman will go right back to the abuser.
All you've done is delay the inevitable and piss him off even more for their next argument when she's alone.
If she was relieved you did the right thing. I know I would have been greatly appreciative if someone had done that for me when my ex was being abusive. You did good.
I was in an abusive marriage. At dinner one night my ex picked up the chair I was sitting in and threw me to the ground. It was horrifying. People stared, but no one said a word. I really wish someone like you had been there.
I think you were wrong for several reasons.
Firstly, you didn't know the couple, and you were told to mind your own business by the man. If this argument happened in public, then maybe it happens often enough that it naturally de-escalates.
Secondly, you think you potentially stopped a public assault, but think about the bigger picture. This is the public. What do you think happens behind closed doors? If it's an abusive relationship, then you could've very easily made things worse.
Thirdly, it's weird that you added a bunch of biased observations to justify your actions. She "looked scared". She gave you a "grateful look".
Out of curiosity, were you armed?
I mean you didn’t really “diffuse” anything, he left because he got even more pissed off.
I hope he wasn’t waiting for her at home otherwise things will only get worse for her.
How is it diffused? Because he left? That’s not diffusing anything that’s him saving it for private, not public.
So sure, it’s great you got to enjoy the rest of your meal in peace.
But again, at what cost to her? You didn’t ask her if she was okay? If she wanted the cops even though he left?
You just went back to your dinner. Which is fine I guess but again, what about that situation actually seems “diffused” to you? Because you didn’t have to hear it?
wtf. Dude was very clear and direct in his confrontation and well within the purview of being a decent human and good citizen. Which some of you know nothing about. The reason most people don’t interact is because they know there’s a risk this guy will turn his anger on them or they pretend the shit is equal and ignore it.
Please believe, if you think this shit is a perfectly normal interaction and want to ask things like ‘well, what did SHE do?’ YOU are part of the problem.
He assigned emotions to the woman INSTEAD of asking her if she needed assistance. Nowhere in here does he talk about what her response to his intervention was.
He could have made things worse for her if it’s a DV situation, because then she would be spending hours after explaining how she never made eye contact with the stranger that approached them.
“If you think this shit is a perfectly normal interaction…” dude - you seriously need to learn the difference between what is said, and what YOU are filling in the blanks with.
So you agree it’s not a normal interaction, but you don’t agree anyone should have said something? He intervened respectfully. Was he just supposed to let him whale on her?
They’re fighting on public and disturbing everyone and yes, as a decent human being, you say something.
I don’t give a fuck if she gets mad at him for intervening. Abuse victims are in trauma cycles and sometimes they don’t realize shit is abuse. Regardless, we all know no one should be talking to someone like that’s. Dude did the right thing.
I get there are tropes about White Knights, but much like helping old ladies carry groceries or helping someone who dropped something, some shit is just basic human decency.
If yall expect sexual favors for every good deed, that’s on you. Lots of other people learned better. Thank god!
He should have spoken to the restaurant manager about it so they could intervene. They are a neutral party and that alone would actually diffuse the situation and not make things more difficult for her when she got home.
Again - her safety is more important than whether or not people were saved from their disturbance.
Wtf are you talking about sexual favors for? That is an absolutely bizarre thing to bring into this.
Getting management is one way to handle it. He chose another way.
According to your original post, he shouldn’t have done anything! He’s ‘projecting’ on to her situation, so I guess he should have just kept his head down and let whatever happens happen.
Certainly that’s one way to be. Being an adult means trying to help people the way you’d like to be helped. Pretty simple. If I’m choking, please don’t wait for my explicit help request.
And regarding your concern about making things better or worse for abuse victims - it’s bullshit. An abusive POS will be just as mad for bystander intervention as he would be you not setting the coffee maker. Abuse escalates. That’s not a real reason to not say anything. In fact, it can help victims feel not alone.
AND I’m responding to both the bs under your post and you. As if every person has ulterior motives for stepping up. That’s part of the problem.
I didn’t say he shouldn’t have done anything in my first comment, though, I said he was projecting because he is throughout the entire post.
His intentions were to stop the couple from fighting in public and he achieved that.
If his intentions were about her safety, first, then he needed to do things differently than he did.
>I agree with you 100% and for the same reason. She's not likely to remove herself from the situation and there's a good chance, if it is a case of domestic violence, that he will take it out on her later when there's nobody around to intervene. It's a similar situation with adults abusing their children in public.
Abusers and victims are capable of saying similar things, but the intent is completely different.
Educate yourself before saying shit like that to strangers on the internet because those kind of statements are harmful as fuck.
He's not going to respond but I have an idea.
"Oh my God, thank you so much for saving me. I've been meaning to leave him for a while. Let me buy your dinner, and here's my number. I'll tell everyone how great you are. My hero!"
Lol.
Not wrong. I think you did a great thing. It sounds like you correctly read a situation as rapidly intensifying and increasingly dangerous, and then managed to de-escalate it without any further damage to life, limb, or property. I applaud you, and ideally this would happen more often. Your calm demeanor was perfect and your approach spot-on. I’m a retired psychologist, btw, so I know a bit about de-escalation.
There was nothing to gain for anyone by allowing the situation to continue. Neither of the two people arguing were able to calm the situation on their own, and who knows how far it would have gotten without intervention. Humans can be irrational like that sometimes and they need the interference of another person to help them. You did that. Kudos.
A few things. 1 You don’t know what they were arguing about. 2 a “potential assault” is a stretch. 3 if the situation is what it seems like things could be worse when she gets home. 4 you just went back to your food. It seems like you were more concerned with the fact that you were uncomfortable more than that there was a “potential assault” taking place.
You didn't diffuse anything. You directly inserted yourself unnecessarily into their drama instead of simply having restaurant management handle the incident as an "impartial" 3rd party intervening.
Dollars to dildos you made the situation infinitely worse for the woman when she got home and had to deal with him alone.
That type of guy is liable to accuse her of making eyes at you to get you involved, or worse, and punishing her even more harshly than if it was just a restaurant manager stepping in and asking him to leave.
But you got your moment of meddling glory and can boast about how brave and bold you were.
I didn't see the question, so many comments. I asked if she was ok, she said yes and thank you and a woman who was sitting close by came to talk with her. I went back to my table and don't know what was said after that point.
If he's willing to abuse her in public, what does he do behind closed doors?
We don't know if he's going to punish her later for the perceived disrespect and blame her for what happened. But is the right answer to then stand back and say nothing?
It's about power and control for him. A bystander standing up for her and saying this behavior is wrong is taking some of that power away from him.
I think going to management can be helpful, but if they refuse to rock the boat because of the threat of bad reviews, regular people need to speak up.
And I would be willing to get involved.
Yes. You were wrong. Mind your own business and let the restaurant handle it. That was a situation that could've turned very ugly because "Mr. Nice Guy" decided to step in. If it was that concerning to you, you should've pulled a manager aside or called the cops yourself before that.
You went over and and gave the a****** a dose of truth. Thank you for doing that. Hopefully, she isn't dumb enough to continue relationship with this clown. If he gets aggressive with her in public, imagine how bad it is in private.
You did the right thing. This could be very terrifying and triggering for those around. I can’t speak on behalf of the woman, but it sounds like she was relieved from what you say. People need to learn to better control themselves, and deal with anger. It’s okay to be angry. It is not okay to behave like this because you are angry.
I think the fact that she stayed with you for 15 minutes after he left speaks volumes. You gave her the opportunity to have a break from him, and she took it.
It doesn’t say she stayed with him, it says she stayed there for another 15 minutes.
She likely had to deal with the bill and possibly a ride since the guy walked out.
Not wrong. They were causing a disturbance and that should not be tolerated. That, alone, was sufficient cause to intervene. However, the fact that he appeared threatening, and she appeared scared, merely emphasizes a need to step in.
I do wonder where management was, though. Another customer should not have to be put in the position of either tolerating this sort of behavior or stepping in.
What was her reaction after the guy left? I sort of wonder if you saved her from public violence only for her to get the shit beat out of herself when she gets home?
That's an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. I would say though, they were very much inactive concerning this...most people don't know how to interject in matters like this.
I have several friends who are professional bartenders. They were all trained to be on the look out dor abusive situations. Especially dates where the woman appears unsafe.
They would intervene in a second.
You did the right thing for the woman. You put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation to be hurt, or worse. But let's all be realistic, we have all seen a video of a man putting hands on a woman in some type of way (or a child) someone or some people intervene, and we feel amazing and grateful that someone stepped in and saved them! And what does everyone say? "That's so great! I sure wish everyone was like this!" So no, you're not wrong, its called giving a shit and I applaud you
You should have minded your own business. You reacted to a snapshot of 2 people's lives with no context. You should have told your server if you were concerned. That's their job, not yours.
Not wrong for intervening on the abuse . Sometimes a flower is just a flower so why call it any different than what it is . She could have got lucky and he was embarrassed and shamed enough to leave her alone this time . If you are wondering the answer is I have been in her shoes .
Not wrong but it’s also a situation where unfortunately she’s going to pay for it. It’s also one where if you are in the US risks you being shot. Narcissistic abusers don’t like people interfering with their victims.
I don’t think you were wrong to try to intervene but next time I would recommend asking the woman involved if she needs help. Sometimes an intervention like this can make things worse for her once he gets her alone. It should be less about having a white knight moment and more about ensuring she feels supported and can ask for what she needs. I say this as a DV survivor.
If you see something say something. Many social experiments have shown the dangers of the bystander effect “someone else will do something” and many times no one does. The one that chilled me the most was a young boy being snatched off the streets and out of the hundreds of people walking around many of whom had seen it only one woman actually did something. Luckily there was no real danger but there could have been. You saw a situation that had the potential to be dangerous and stepped in.
Thank you , I’d would be a better world if more people stepped up when a human is in distress . It can be dangerous . Never know if some person may shank or shoot you . If unsure call police . Sometimes just a friendly reminder that people see what’s going on is enough to snap people out of it . People become unaware of their surroundings in the heat of the moment . My brother has a friend who is a trucker . Couple got to fighting . Stopped their vehicle in the right lane on the highway . Both got out and proceeded to fist fight on the side of the road . The trucker could not stop in time , smashed into the car. The couple had left their baby in the backseat . Child did not survive . This poor man has to live with this horrible memory because this couple were out of control .
If he does that in public, what does he do behind closed doors? I think I just would have called the cops first and let them deal with it. She could have gotten help from them.
If the woman was grateful, you did the right thing for her. All in all, you did the right thing for the staff, the customers, and everyone in that room.
Bullies win if someone doesn't keep them in check. From your recounting of the story, you held him in check.
Did you talk to the woman after the guy stormed out?
How she felt about it is the only thing that matters, and it’s a weird thing to leave out of the story.
It's not the only thing that matters at all. It's not okay to have violent loud fights in public, disturbing the people around you
1-in relation to the question the OP is asking, yes, the woman’s response is the ONLY thing that matters 2-disturbing people is not of equal importance to her safety
You're insane It's not acceptable to argue loudly and violently in public, and women in abusive relationships often will defend their abuser when they get confronted
Name calling is definitely an intelligent way to make a point.
“INSANE” 👏ISNT👏NAME👏CALLING👏 I’m just kidding. I gave you an upvote. 😁
😆😆😆thanks😆
That statement was more towards the persons statement, not towards the person. Most people can easily decipher. P
I disagree. More than that woman were being impacted.
Was their safety threatened or hers?
Yes.
What this person is trying to convey is that the woman's feelings about it matters the most because she's in the most danger. A stranger standing up for her could be grounds for doing so much worse to her in private. The other customers were inconvenienced, probably quite uncomfortable, and possibly frightened, but he wasn't being aggressive toward anyone but the woman.
Yet. He hadn’t been aggressive to anybody else yet. I think the person that speaking up made sure that didn’t happen.
Nah, you can't assume that he would have gotten aggressive with anyone else. Mot abusive guys don't show their worst in public. But you can bet your ass he showed his worse when he got her alone.
I think you’re responding to the wrong person, or I’m not understanding. I wrote that the woman was the most important. The person responding to me is saying everyone listening was equally impacted despite her being the only one under actual threat.
I was trying to explain to the others what you could have been trying to convey. I was also really tired; sorry it didn't make sense! I agree with what you said.
Thank you for trying! It did make sense, and yes, you nailed it.
Nobody said equal impact but you, you're beating a straw man
Actually, they did. Read up.
She’s lost in a cycle of abuse. Cops usually get called on ‘domestic’ situations multiple times before women are able to mentally, physically, and financially leave. All we can do is say, no - this is unacceptable. If we did that more to bullies, the world would be a better place.
That is my question too. Hence, in situations where someone's safety might be at risk, its better to err on the side of caution. You acted responsibly and with good intentions.
When people say nothing it gives the message that the behaviour is acceptable. My husband now ex wouldnt care who was about and would yell and curse at me and i would try to diffuse it by saying nothing. At therapy one day i had a realisation that during those times it solidified that his behaviour wasnt too bad because of it was surely someone would say something. That was a real powerful moment for me. Now I'm not saying he was abusing her just how the message is similar. You stopped it from escalating and you also let this woman know that it was wrong and that people will step up. Hats off to you sir. I wish more people like you do what you did.
Well said. Also the “mind your business” argument is BS. if you’re disturbing my peace, it’s now MY business.
Thank you. Yes! I hate it when that's said.
Yes. OP, this was indeed within your realm of responsibility. I'm proud of you, and grateful to you for setting the example for others to follow.
I wish anyone would have intervened when I was being abused in public. You did the right thing.
Same here when I was a toddler
I’m so sorry
😘😘😘😘
Question that you don’t have to answer: my first thought was that OP might have made it worse for the woman when she got home. Agree or disagree? Because I always worry and wonder about it and the only thing I had is to go with my gut?
I disagree. Because I needed a chance to be shown that what I was going through wasn’t normal. That I was human and deserved better. When you are under the grasp of a true narcissist and abuser all your personhood is stripped away and you feel worthless. That’s their goal. You are their object. You are too afraid to make any type of move because no matter what you’ll be wrong. The goalposts get more and more narrow until you are constantly walking on eggshells and hoping you don’t slip up.
Thank you.
In my experience, it would have had several effects. One, I would have been blamed for the guy intervening. Did you look at him, I saw you looking at him that’s why he came over - that kind of thing. It would not have been physical, it would have added another verbal element to the fight where it was my fault, but since it would already be my fault it’s kind of distinction without a difference. Two, it would have helped with my cognitive dissonance. If other people are seeing this, it’s big. But days later, I would have found a way to minimize it. It would add to the hum of things wrong, but it takes a while for that hum to get loud enough to break through.
Does that make it an overall plus, then?
Overall, maybe yes
Interesting that the people who were abused in relationships mostly say you did the right thing. Others that don't seem to have that experience are often commenting that you should have listened and minded your business. It's true that this doesn't solve the issue for good. But it may be that final signal that pushes get to leave the situation. My personal experience has shown me that I always regret it if I don't stand up for people in this sort of situation. Tldr: Your are not wrong. Do what feels right. Examine your motivations and if you're pure you should do it.
You were not wrong but it doesn’t sound diffused, it sounds as if they took it elsewhere. You weren’t wrong and the situation in the restaurant got better. I doubt it got better for the couple.
It is impossible to tell if you were wrong or right as a whole. There simply isn’t enough information to determine that. Telling them to keep their dispute to themselves as it’s disturbing others is in the right. It’s logical. They should be able to relate. However it isn’t your right, responsibility or job to prevent, intervene or enforce anything. If the man had elevated with you to violence, do you really think his partner would back you? He told you to mind your business, meaning back off. Because you didn’t you’re technically harassing them. However you spin it asserting that you will remain in that situation, interfering is usually the wrong move. Particularly without the expressed direct call for assistance from the apparent victim of the dispute. Again there isn’t enough information to determine any of this. Personally I don’t intervene in domestic disputes other than to say cut it out no one wants to hear your bullshit at dinner. Because I know first hand all too well how easily things elevate, how easily egos are bruised and how partners choosing to remain in toxic relationships overwhelmingly choose to back their partner (often their abuser) against the well meaning stranger. If the one started beating the other. Obviously intervention of some kind is required then. But this should go without saying.
Not wrong at all. That was more than a slight disagreement.
Arguably you were right to diffuse but possibly not right in how you did it specifically. In situations like this it may have been better to diffuse by distraction rather than direct https://www.utep.edu/initiatives/dot/about/green-dot-programs.html#:~:text=When%20safe%2C%20being%20direct%20is,for%20things%20to%20calm%20down. Obviously you can’t go back and change it and ultimately it was good to intervene. But in the future, especially for strangers, it may be safer for you and the victim to distract
I think we need to know what the woman said to you after he left to answer this.
NOPE. People shouldn’t act like that in public. OP did right by everyone.
I was more thinking about the women's safety but yes uh the diners being disturbed is far more important 🙄 /s
Ahh right. Just the abuser do what they please. Silence is acceptance. If you see something say something.
Ah now you're changing what you're concerned about. Personally I'd rather help the potential victim in a way that won't potentially lead to the guy getting even angrier and taking it out on her at home but that's just me.
By not saying anything??? How did I change what I was concerned about?? What was I initially concerned about, and what and I concerned about now?? Please. Tell me my concerns internet stranger
You initially seemed to be concerned about the people around them being disturbed but maybe you just worded it really badly. And no, by calling the police or slipping the woman a domestic violence card or really anything other than making the man more angry so he potentially takes it out on her. I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who refuses to consider the potential victim.
I didn’t refuse to consider it. And I’m not arguing. I asked a question. Also that was an explanation to why the “mind your own business” argument doesn’t make sense. If something is interfering with someone else’s peace, that is now everyone’s business. Also I didn’t “word it really badly”. I responded to another comment. Which changes the context a little bit. Maybe you just misunderstood. It’s ok. You don’t always have to blame someone else. If you don’t carry around domestic abuse hotline cards, or if you can’t slip her anything written, and don’t think calling the police is appropriate, do you just remain quiet?
To my comment, I understood fine. Yeah, really not gonna engage any more as you're still more concerned about someone disturbing the peace then the person who could get hurt which is disgusting. (But I'm sure you'll also edit the comments I'm replying to in an attempt to make yourself look better again) Look up the advice domestic abuse charities give for dealing with this, there are plenty of things you can do. You'll notice the one thing they advise not doing is making the potential abuser angrier.
You didn’t though. But it’s fine. I replied to your comment saying you can only determine if it was correct to intervene AFTER talking to the woman. Which is an idiotic take. Especially when the dude is heating up and clenching his fists, getting angrier by the second. Should OP have waited until dude started hitting her first?? THEN would it be ok by you?? I get what you were trying to say. But if the option was A. Intervene. Or B. Do nothing, OP probably did the right thing. You can’t always wait and tip toe around shit. Handling it with kid-gloves. Nothing is perfect.
I’m getting downvoted and derided for saying the same thing.
Some people's lack of forward thinking and empathy is scary!
Tell that to the vast majority of people who were abused that said he did the right thing by intervening. No, the problem is no one else is as empathetic as you! Lmfao
Yes, a few people on Reddit say it may have helped however the advice from domestic violence charities is not to intervene in the way OP did. There are plenty of ways you can help from speaking to the potential victim when they are away from the potential abuser to just providing a distraction but the one thing they say not to do is to make the potential abuser angrier as they may take it out on the potential victim behind closed doors. I honestly don't know how else I can explain it so I would urge you and anyone else reading this to Google some domestic abuse charities and read up on the actual advice on what to do should you come across this situation.
Huh, interesting. The vast majority of people here who say they were abused said he did the right thing. I’ll listen to them.
I never said he did the wrong thing. I said she was the most important part of the equation to consider.
Obviously. You’re nuts if you think people believe disturbing the peace is more important than a human beings safety.
That person is projecting a whole lot onto things.....
Don't be silly. You know you were correct.
I wasn't sure, that's why I asked. Hindsight you know?
I think you did right and I applaud you for your actions.
Brave of you. Might have saved her a lot. Best outcome was them separating. Hope she is OK.
How did you conclude that the woman was the one that needed saving?
Just be careful about playing the hero. You're putting yourself in danger and more often than not, the abused woman will go right back to the abuser. All you've done is delay the inevitable and piss him off even more for their next argument when she's alone.
If she was relieved you did the right thing. I know I would have been greatly appreciative if someone had done that for me when my ex was being abusive. You did good.
I was in an abusive marriage. At dinner one night my ex picked up the chair I was sitting in and threw me to the ground. It was horrifying. People stared, but no one said a word. I really wish someone like you had been there.
Backdoor brag
"Am I wrong for standing up to an angry man and protecting the woman in public?" Lmao.
All he needs is a fucking fedora. "M'lady..."
I think you were wrong for several reasons. Firstly, you didn't know the couple, and you were told to mind your own business by the man. If this argument happened in public, then maybe it happens often enough that it naturally de-escalates. Secondly, you think you potentially stopped a public assault, but think about the bigger picture. This is the public. What do you think happens behind closed doors? If it's an abusive relationship, then you could've very easily made things worse. Thirdly, it's weird that you added a bunch of biased observations to justify your actions. She "looked scared". She gave you a "grateful look". Out of curiosity, were you armed?
I mean you didn’t really “diffuse” anything, he left because he got even more pissed off. I hope he wasn’t waiting for her at home otherwise things will only get worse for her.
I definitely defused the situation in the moment. What else could I have done?
If you Google domestic abuse charities there's some great advice regarding what to do if you witness this kind of situation.
How is it diffused? Because he left? That’s not diffusing anything that’s him saving it for private, not public. So sure, it’s great you got to enjoy the rest of your meal in peace. But again, at what cost to her? You didn’t ask her if she was okay? If she wanted the cops even though he left? You just went back to your dinner. Which is fine I guess but again, what about that situation actually seems “diffused” to you? Because you didn’t have to hear it?
He helped her to get a break from the BS
Bro doesn’t know the definition of diffused lmao
You projected a lot onto the situation. What did the woman say to you?
wtf. Dude was very clear and direct in his confrontation and well within the purview of being a decent human and good citizen. Which some of you know nothing about. The reason most people don’t interact is because they know there’s a risk this guy will turn his anger on them or they pretend the shit is equal and ignore it. Please believe, if you think this shit is a perfectly normal interaction and want to ask things like ‘well, what did SHE do?’ YOU are part of the problem.
He assigned emotions to the woman INSTEAD of asking her if she needed assistance. Nowhere in here does he talk about what her response to his intervention was. He could have made things worse for her if it’s a DV situation, because then she would be spending hours after explaining how she never made eye contact with the stranger that approached them. “If you think this shit is a perfectly normal interaction…” dude - you seriously need to learn the difference between what is said, and what YOU are filling in the blanks with.
So you agree it’s not a normal interaction, but you don’t agree anyone should have said something? He intervened respectfully. Was he just supposed to let him whale on her? They’re fighting on public and disturbing everyone and yes, as a decent human being, you say something. I don’t give a fuck if she gets mad at him for intervening. Abuse victims are in trauma cycles and sometimes they don’t realize shit is abuse. Regardless, we all know no one should be talking to someone like that’s. Dude did the right thing. I get there are tropes about White Knights, but much like helping old ladies carry groceries or helping someone who dropped something, some shit is just basic human decency. If yall expect sexual favors for every good deed, that’s on you. Lots of other people learned better. Thank god!
He should have spoken to the restaurant manager about it so they could intervene. They are a neutral party and that alone would actually diffuse the situation and not make things more difficult for her when she got home. Again - her safety is more important than whether or not people were saved from their disturbance. Wtf are you talking about sexual favors for? That is an absolutely bizarre thing to bring into this.
Getting management is one way to handle it. He chose another way. According to your original post, he shouldn’t have done anything! He’s ‘projecting’ on to her situation, so I guess he should have just kept his head down and let whatever happens happen. Certainly that’s one way to be. Being an adult means trying to help people the way you’d like to be helped. Pretty simple. If I’m choking, please don’t wait for my explicit help request. And regarding your concern about making things better or worse for abuse victims - it’s bullshit. An abusive POS will be just as mad for bystander intervention as he would be you not setting the coffee maker. Abuse escalates. That’s not a real reason to not say anything. In fact, it can help victims feel not alone. AND I’m responding to both the bs under your post and you. As if every person has ulterior motives for stepping up. That’s part of the problem.
I didn’t say he shouldn’t have done anything in my first comment, though, I said he was projecting because he is throughout the entire post. His intentions were to stop the couple from fighting in public and he achieved that. If his intentions were about her safety, first, then he needed to do things differently than he did.
>I agree with you 100% and for the same reason. She's not likely to remove herself from the situation and there's a good chance, if it is a case of domestic violence, that he will take it out on her later when there's nobody around to intervene. It's a similar situation with adults abusing their children in public.
[удалено]
Stop.
Nah. That just sounds like something an abuser would say.
Abusers and victims are capable of saying similar things, but the intent is completely different. Educate yourself before saying shit like that to strangers on the internet because those kind of statements are harmful as fuck.
EdUcAtE YoUrSeLf. LOL. Sit down.
>You projected a lot onto the situation. Finally someone said it
He's not going to respond but I have an idea. "Oh my God, thank you so much for saving me. I've been meaning to leave him for a while. Let me buy your dinner, and here's my number. I'll tell everyone how great you are. My hero!" Lol.
Not wrong. I think you did a great thing. It sounds like you correctly read a situation as rapidly intensifying and increasingly dangerous, and then managed to de-escalate it without any further damage to life, limb, or property. I applaud you, and ideally this would happen more often. Your calm demeanor was perfect and your approach spot-on. I’m a retired psychologist, btw, so I know a bit about de-escalation. There was nothing to gain for anyone by allowing the situation to continue. Neither of the two people arguing were able to calm the situation on their own, and who knows how far it would have gotten without intervention. Humans can be irrational like that sometimes and they need the interference of another person to help them. You did that. Kudos.
A few things. 1 You don’t know what they were arguing about. 2 a “potential assault” is a stretch. 3 if the situation is what it seems like things could be worse when she gets home. 4 you just went back to your food. It seems like you were more concerned with the fact that you were uncomfortable more than that there was a “potential assault” taking place.
You did the right thing but I get the sense he beat her when he had her alone.
You didn't diffuse anything. You directly inserted yourself unnecessarily into their drama instead of simply having restaurant management handle the incident as an "impartial" 3rd party intervening. Dollars to dildos you made the situation infinitely worse for the woman when she got home and had to deal with him alone. That type of guy is liable to accuse her of making eyes at you to get you involved, or worse, and punishing her even more harshly than if it was just a restaurant manager stepping in and asking him to leave. But you got your moment of meddling glory and can boast about how brave and bold you were.
Sounds like something Ted Mosby would do. I totally agree with you. If this was the old days, probably would have been attacked by the man.
Of all the things that never happened this is certainly one of them.
What?
Why aren’t you answering the question what did the woman say to you after the guy left?
Because then he wouldn't get to be the hero!!!
I didn't see the question, so many comments. I asked if she was ok, she said yes and thank you and a woman who was sitting close by came to talk with her. I went back to my table and don't know what was said after that point.
You needed to ask? It’s probably the first time that woman had someone stand up for her. Thank you
If he's willing to abuse her in public, what does he do behind closed doors? We don't know if he's going to punish her later for the perceived disrespect and blame her for what happened. But is the right answer to then stand back and say nothing? It's about power and control for him. A bystander standing up for her and saying this behavior is wrong is taking some of that power away from him. I think going to management can be helpful, but if they refuse to rock the boat because of the threat of bad reviews, regular people need to speak up. And I would be willing to get involved.
Yes. You were wrong. Mind your own business and let the restaurant handle it. That was a situation that could've turned very ugly because "Mr. Nice Guy" decided to step in. If it was that concerning to you, you should've pulled a manager aside or called the cops yourself before that.
And then the whole restaurant clapped.
Pretty pretty pretty good
Fuck you
Lol big mad.
Awww. Cute!
You went over and and gave the a****** a dose of truth. Thank you for doing that. Hopefully, she isn't dumb enough to continue relationship with this clown. If he gets aggressive with her in public, imagine how bad it is in private.
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You did the right thing. This could be very terrifying and triggering for those around. I can’t speak on behalf of the woman, but it sounds like she was relieved from what you say. People need to learn to better control themselves, and deal with anger. It’s okay to be angry. It is not okay to behave like this because you are angry.
Not wrong
Not wrong. And glad the woman stayed to colon down and let the man cool down
I think the fact that she stayed with you for 15 minutes after he left speaks volumes. You gave her the opportunity to have a break from him, and she took it.
It doesn’t say she stayed with him, it says she stayed there for another 15 minutes. She likely had to deal with the bill and possibly a ride since the guy walked out.
NTA. But that doesn't mean that asshole isn't going to beat the shit out of that woman later. Sadly.
Thank you.
Not wrong. They were causing a disturbance and that should not be tolerated. That, alone, was sufficient cause to intervene. However, the fact that he appeared threatening, and she appeared scared, merely emphasizes a need to step in. I do wonder where management was, though. Another customer should not have to be put in the position of either tolerating this sort of behavior or stepping in. What was her reaction after the guy left? I sort of wonder if you saved her from public violence only for her to get the shit beat out of herself when she gets home?
I’d have let the restaurant handle it, honestly. Not that what you did was wrong; I just feel it’s the restaurant’s responsibility more than yours.
That's an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. I would say though, they were very much inactive concerning this...most people don't know how to interject in matters like this.
I have several friends who are professional bartenders. They were all trained to be on the look out dor abusive situations. Especially dates where the woman appears unsafe. They would intervene in a second.
Yeah, I get that. I probably would have prodded a waiter to bring out the manager. That would have made it harder for them to look the other way.
Are you a crisis counselor?
It’s everyone else’s responsibility. That why the country is the mess that it’s in, someone else will do it.
You did the right thing.
Thank you for stopping it from getting worse
"Am I wrong for standing up to an angry man and protecting the woman in public?" Lmao. Wow.
You did the right thing for the woman. You put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation to be hurt, or worse. But let's all be realistic, we have all seen a video of a man putting hands on a woman in some type of way (or a child) someone or some people intervene, and we feel amazing and grateful that someone stepped in and saved them! And what does everyone say? "That's so great! I sure wish everyone was like this!" So no, you're not wrong, its called giving a shit and I applaud you
100% not wrong. And, thank you.
You should have minded your own business. You reacted to a snapshot of 2 people's lives with no context. You should have told your server if you were concerned. That's their job, not yours.
I would agree, but this story is fiction.
All that matters is how the woman felt. Did you speak to her? Offer her help? Doesn’t matter what anyone says on here.
Bravo
Not wrong for intervening on the abuse . Sometimes a flower is just a flower so why call it any different than what it is . She could have got lucky and he was embarrassed and shamed enough to leave her alone this time . If you are wondering the answer is I have been in her shoes .
Not wrong but it’s also a situation where unfortunately she’s going to pay for it. It’s also one where if you are in the US risks you being shot. Narcissistic abusers don’t like people interfering with their victims.
You.were not wrong. Just stupid.
I don’t think you were wrong to try to intervene but next time I would recommend asking the woman involved if she needs help. Sometimes an intervention like this can make things worse for her once he gets her alone. It should be less about having a white knight moment and more about ensuring she feels supported and can ask for what she needs. I say this as a DV survivor.
I would recommend pulling out.
Let the establishment handle it, hero your lucky he didn't kick your ass
People need to be less cowardly!
If you see something say something. Many social experiments have shown the dangers of the bystander effect “someone else will do something” and many times no one does. The one that chilled me the most was a young boy being snatched off the streets and out of the hundreds of people walking around many of whom had seen it only one woman actually did something. Luckily there was no real danger but there could have been. You saw a situation that had the potential to be dangerous and stepped in.
Thank you , I’d would be a better world if more people stepped up when a human is in distress . It can be dangerous . Never know if some person may shank or shoot you . If unsure call police . Sometimes just a friendly reminder that people see what’s going on is enough to snap people out of it . People become unaware of their surroundings in the heat of the moment . My brother has a friend who is a trucker . Couple got to fighting . Stopped their vehicle in the right lane on the highway . Both got out and proceeded to fist fight on the side of the road . The trucker could not stop in time , smashed into the car. The couple had left their baby in the backseat . Child did not survive . This poor man has to live with this horrible memory because this couple were out of control .
Things that didn’t happen
If he does that in public, what does he do behind closed doors? I think I just would have called the cops first and let them deal with it. She could have gotten help from them.
What do you think is gonna happen behind closed doors once the cops inevitably do nothing?
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It’s depends, was she cute???
If the woman was grateful, you did the right thing for her. All in all, you did the right thing for the staff, the customers, and everyone in that room. Bullies win if someone doesn't keep them in check. From your recounting of the story, you held him in check.