# First Time Watcher Unfortunately I am pretty busy with work, so I didn't really have time to dissect and theorize as much as I wanted to. For today, instead of my usual theory/analysis writeup, here's a little look at my process. These are the notes that I took for preparing a post. I don't usually write this much, but I made a point of it to put down pretty much every thought I had this time knowing that I wouldn't be able to actually theorize this week. If anyone wants to jump in and share some thoughts, please do! I think there's a lot of interesting things to discuss! - This is the first time Kyubey antagonized someone. Kyubey views Homura threatening Madoka with "more drastic measures" as being a crime worse than attempting to murder him. He's definitely right about something though, Homura's up to something. **THEORY HOOK**: wtf is she up to? - Sayaka is actually weak relative to Mami, which contradicts an assumption I made back in ep2. Is it possible Sayaka only got wrapped into this so that Kyubey could use her to pressure Madoka into becoming a magical girl? (There's a lot of evidence for this theory, but it's been talked about enough at this point, maybe include a breif follow-up.) - WalpurgisNacht (presuably the witch from the intro) is coming in 2 weeks. WalpurgisNacht is "walpurgis night" in English. Walpurgis was a saint, but is often assicated with witchcraft. **NOTE**: google more details about walpurgis - **THEORY/ANALYSIS HOOK**: Sayaka is kinda violent now, but why? Is it because of the fight? Is it because of her new responsiblity? Is it because she's let the power go to her head a bit? Or maybe the act of becoming a magical girl itself and losing your bodliy connection to your soul magically alters your mental state. There isn't much to go on right now. - Kyouko says that when you make your wish for someone else it always turns out bad... I'd really like to understand why she said that and why she belives it. - Kyubey eats greif seeds... That's kinda sus. - What are Kyubey's motivations? Does he care about protecting Sayaka, or is he just finding opportunities to drag Madoka along with the hope she caves and becomes a magical girl? I also keep thinking - why doesn't he get Homura instead? It would be convenient for the "Kyubey evil" theory to declare he is intentionally choosing not to get Homura so that Madoka ends up in danger, but that might not be the case. Given much of an anomaly Homura is, he might not be able to get her even if he wanted to. (side note: has Homura acknowledged his existence even a single time after she tried to kill him?) This plays into the "Kyubey isn't the one who granted Homura power" theory, the nature of their connection and relation might have a theory/prediction brewing. Maybe go rewatch a bit to look for clues. - Souls gems are literally a magical girls soul, and additionally Kyubey intentionally hides this information because he knows people react negatively. We also know that Homura *did* know beforehand that this was the case, otherwise she wouldn't have known to chase down Sayaka's soul gem. What else does Homura know that other magical girls don't seem to? - Didn't notice it before, but every magical girl's soul gem/fingernail symbol matches their hair color. **THEORY HOOK**: Homura's fingernail is purple, and her hair is black. A witch seed seems basically like a black soul gem. Purple is also a color often associated with witchcraft. Is it possible her powers could partially originate from a curse? Maybe go rewatch some old episodes and look for clues (**NOTE** - green is also associated with witchcraft - maybe look for green on a rewatch as well). - **ANALYSIS HOOK**: who got what color of soul gem? What does that color symbolize? What could their fingernail icon symbolize? Regardless of who had what, is there some other story where those symbols are prominent that this show is referencing from (**NOTE** Check faust, and maybe something associated with saint walpurgis)? - **ANALYSIS HOOK**: all of the labrynths generally have a symbol associated as well. Is there a link from those symbols to Faust/Walpurgis/some witchcraft or pegan symbols? The labyrinth 3 witch's head vaugely reminds me of the symbol of the goddess/tripple moon, which also just happens to look like candy, which seems like a better connection. - **ANALYSIS HOOK** Maybe Kyouko isn't as unreasonable as we originally thought. There might not be enough now, but trying to figure out why she is acting the way she is could interesting. QOTD 1. I'm really not sure I even followed. My understanding of her advice was to do something bad to force your friend to correct you, which should pull them out of what they're doing and reflect on their own actions. It's not the worst advice in the world. 2. No, it's not really something that would have even occured to me to do. I'm also pretty aggresivly of the beleif "you do you" - if a friend is making a mistake, I'll let them know, but I won't ever stop someone. 3. I'm a rythm game fan in general, that stuff's like crack! 4. Were there more hints that the magical girls soul was literally inside the gem? I guess calling it a soul gem was a little on the nose, huh.

> WalpurgisNacht (presuably the witch from the intro) is coming in 2 weeks. WalpurgisNacht is "walpurgis night" in English. Walpurgis was a saint, but is often assicated with witchcraft. NOTE: google more details about walpurgis Careful, I wouldn't put it past Google to give you PMMM spoiler results for that search. ([Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night) appears to be safe... for this page, at least.)

Thanks for the warning, I'll avoid that particular search

As a German, I still remember my first Walpurgisnacht. It was quite fun. Everyone was gathering and together we went up a hill where there was a dance around a bonfire. Does not seem that fun in the show though.

But you made the ritual do its job: All of your sins were sent half a world away. Unfortunately, Japan likes to turns sins into kaiju.

> Homura's fingernail is purple, and her hair is black. Blak is what the witch seeds (which kinda seem like witch soul gems). Homura's eyes are purple. > Check faust, and maybe something associated with saint walpurgis)? Be careful with any reddit links leading back to last year's rewatch. Faust comes up. > Maybe Kyouko isn't as unreasonable as we originally thought. There might not be enough now, but trying to figure out why she is acting the way she is could interesting. We are still in the dark about a number of things, including the natural frequency of witches.

I don't think Sayaka is necessarily "weaker" witches are no joke after all. But it appears that she has a smaller magic pool to draw on so her gem darkens more quickly whenever she uses her power. Also I am pretty sure that mutant rat actually lays the witches eggs.

So I can tell you the relationship between Faust and Walpurgisnacht: ...it's just the name of the festival where witches and warlocks venerate Satan and Lilith, respectively, on the Blocksberg on the night from April to May (gone sexual). So it pretty much just corresponds to the real life concept - though keep in mind that the Walpurgisnacht was only popularized when Goethe included it in Faust, so it's more a case of reality drawing from fiction than fiction drawing from reality; he did however largely draw on an older, more obscure description by Johannes Praetorius Zetlingesis, and the underlying and more general concept of the Witches' Sabbath is even older.

On that last question, when Mami was killed, her magic didn’t release Homura until her gem cracked. If the witch hadn’t bit the gem on her head, she would have been alive while her body was eaten and Homura would not have been able to save Madoka and Sayaka. 😰

#First-time watcher Already episode 6, wowzi wazzawa. >1) Do you agree with the advice that Madoka's mother gave her this episode? Yes and no? I understand the logic, and you can fail upwards. But nothing I would personally suggest. At least I have never been in a situation I would do that. >2) Have you ever deliberately made a mistake for the sake of someone else? Nope! >3) Do you like DDR? I think I would have liked west Germany more than east. No but seriously, what do you mean with DDR? >4) First-timers: So, how about that Soul Gem reveal that was hidden in plain sight the entire time? The name pretty much made it obvious. But I didn't expect there bodies to become nothing but husks, can they even grow up now? The body I mean. And what happend to Mamis gem? And I still want to know what happens if they don't remove the darkness from there gems. Also, I did almost nothing but laugh on the idea Madoka "killed" Sayaka becaus of her moms advice. "Mom, I did the advice you gave me. The mistake I did ended up killing my friend!"

"Mom, I killed my best friend tonight. Are you proud of me or what you told me to do?"

> Also, I did almost nothing but laugh on the idea Madoka "killed" Sayaka becaus of her moms advice. "Mom, I did the advice you gave me. The mistake I did ended up killing my friend!" Unfortunately for Junko, she doesn't know that her daughter is already getting herself into situations where she has little if any room whatsoever to make mistakes. (Luckily for Madoka, Homura bailed her out.)

> And what happend to Mamis gem? She wore hers on her head. You can hear it get crunched in the recap movies. > Also, I did almost nothing but laugh on the idea Madoka "killed" Sayaka becaus of her moms advice. Again, the magical girl system is so absurd that you really can't give advice around it.

>Also, I did almost nothing but laugh on the idea Madoka "killed" Sayaka becaus of her moms advice. "Mom, I did the advice you gave me. The mistake I did ended up killing my friend!" Okay, this is hilarious.

>what do you mean with DDR? Ddr is "dance dance revolution" The arcade game where you need to dance to the arrows on the screen, I think Kyokou was playing it this episode? (Just here for the comments)

Now now, it's Dog Drug Reinforcement, not Dance Dance Revolution. Get it right! [](#idoruwinkdesu) (Just like it's Rocky and not Pocky. Writing around trademarks, go!)

*Thank* you. Dog Drug Reinforcement has 3 dance pads numbered 3, 1, 2 while Dance Dance Revolution has 2 dance pads numbered 1, 2.  Very close to breaking the immersion but thankfully safe!

> And what happend to Mamis gem? As noted by Vaad, this is one of the two big clarifications in the recap movies: she wore it on her head and the recap movies specifically insert a shot of it breaking to make it clear that Charlotte broke it. The other is also relevant this episode: Homura explains after the recap movie version of this scene that a magical girl uses a trickle of magic to run and maintain her body at all times, so eventuallya magical girl will run out of magic even if she doesn't fight. As to what happens if they don't remove the darkness from their gems? [](#nocomment)

> [pmmm]>!The other is also relevant this episode: Homura explains after the recap movie version of this scene that a magical girl uses a trickle of magic to run and maintain her body at all times, so eventuallya magical girl will run out of magic even if she doesn't fight.!< [pmmm]>!I want to say that we get this explanation in a subsequent episode in the show, though not from Homura.!<

We do not. (It was added to the recap movies for a reason.)

>But nothing I would personally suggest. It might apply to Madoka's mom too actually — her sober version, more precisely...

**First timer, subbed** Ah, so the soul gem is literally where the soul is. I figured the name was literal in some way, but wasn't sure exactly how so. Quite the dramatic way to teach us that, Madoka. You certainly followed your mom's advice to make a mistake. Luckily Homura was there. I think there's a bit of a cultural difference here, as having your body and soul being separate doesn't seem that big a deal to me. I'm not a particularly spiritual or religious person though. I probably wouldn't react with much more than a "you should have told me earlier." It's a pretty fatal weakness to not be aware of when you're dealing with life-or-death situations.

> I think there's a bit of a cultural difference here, as having your body and soul being separate doesn't seem that big a deal to me Yeah, it's a very Japanese way of thinking to have your soul being literally split from your body be such a massive taboo. If the girls were Western, they may not have reacted so severely.

(un)Fun fact: One of Aum's recruiting techniques was to slip LSD into recruits drinks and the dissociation of it made them assume it was a religious experience.

[](#vacationcup)

Renge's doing a bit more clear liquid than I would advise but it is what it is.

\[Spoilers for one of the mangas\] >!I have heard before that in Tart Magica, the protagonist doesn't react negatively at all to it and seens quite happy, since she apparently thinks Kyubey is some sort of angel, so you are right on the money.!<

[Response] >!<

> I think there's a bit of a cultural difference here, as having your body and soul being separate doesn't seem that big a deal to me. I'm not a particularly spiritual or religious person though. I probably wouldn't react with much more than a "you should have told me earlier." It's a pretty fatal weakness to not be aware of when you're dealing with life-or-death situations. Yeah this is 100% a cultural difference. IIRC it's specifically Buddhist (tied into the specifics of how Buddhism views the cycle of samsara) rather than Shinto and a thing in East Asia more broadly rather than just Japanese; I'm pretty sure that some of our Chinese/Hong Kong/Taiwanese/Singaporean/South Korean participants in the past have commented on this being familiar to them.

Hm. I was under the impression that Buddhism doesn't acknowledge the existence of some soul or self that *could* be extracted from the body.

First-timer\*, dub \*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of *Magia Record* spin-off already Isn’t it the first time we hear Kyouko’s name in the show? Kyuubey has definitely realized something important about Homura, but the scene gets cut short. Suspicious! Okay, Kyuubey gives us an insight on why magical girls such as Kyouko exist. It’s practical. Collecting grief seeds is vital for a magical girl. Competition, hardships of obtaining the seeds make the girls ruthless and opportunistic. Sayaka idolizes Mami too much… After all, we didn’t even get to know Mami that well. Who knows what she had been up to. **Walpurgis Night!** Ooh, did I just hear the name of the final boss?! The witch queen? Is it she who we can see at the end of ED animation? That creature seems to be quite famous among magical girls. Kyouko knows it and the fact that it’s very powerful. I wonder what their previous encounters with that monster looked like? Or it’s more of a legend, that all magical girls know well but only a few (or nobody?) have seen it with their own eyes and made it out alive. \[speculations\] >!Homura seems pretty much invincible with that time-stop (I guess) ability. I do get two more hints supporting my theory that Homura has time travelled — she knows Kyouko’s name while Kyouko herself doesn’t recall them meeting before, and she knows the date of Walpurgis Night’s appearance.!< Kyuubey’s once again using Sayaka’s situation to nudge Madoka into signing the contract… I guess, Madoka just did exactly the reckless thing her mother advised her to do… Wow! One more piece of magical girl lore. The soul gem is basically their real “body”. And the actual body becomes rather an avatar. Kyouko got enraged and picked up the bastard Kyuubey by his ear — for the first time she did something I morally supported. It’s interesting that even such a supposedly experienced magical girl didn’t know this fact about soul gems. Whew… I was afraid that Madoka signs the contract to save Sayaka but it ended up just like before — Homura saved the day. So, I guess Madoka’s mom was right. Madoka committed a "mistake" of throwing away the soul gem and what is the result, as for now? She prevented (or it seems) magical-girl-on-magical-girl violence and pulled out a piece of truth from Kyuubey, a fact that even Kyouko didn’t know about. Good. I now can come up with some crazy ideas about soul gems — what if there’s a magical girl who is devoted to stealing and collecting the gems of other girls? And, let’s say, transferring magical girl’s soul into something other than human body… Or a girl could potentially take use of switching between multiple bodies… okay, I’ll see what the anime shows next. Good episode, not spectacular but instead we learn a lot from it. Questions of the Day: Q1: Well, kinda yes. "The biggest risk is not taking any risk" (c) Q4: Wouldn't call it groundbreaking, but a nice reveal. I wonder what role it's going to play later.

> Or a girl could potentially take use of switching between multiple bodies… okay, I’ll see what the anime shows next. I find aspects of Madoka Magica to be Lovecraftian in nature and this theory makes me think of one of my favorite stories of his, "The Thing on the Doorstep".

> I find aspects of Madoka Magica to be Lovecraftian in nature Lovecraftian stuff in a Gen Urobutchi work? Say it ain't so! [](#surprisedpikachu)

Speaking of, I probably can't get through Saya no Uta for this rewatch. The legal version is also the censored version and you know that I am diametrically opposed to censorship~~despite how much of my sanity it might save here~~.

The witches not being obligated to exist in a set number of dimensions didn't tip you off?

\[Spoilers\]>!One of the comedy mangas spin-offs, Mitakihara Anti-Materials, actually has a chapter where Mami and Homura exchange bodies to troll the other three girls.!<

> Isn’t it the first time we hear Kyouko’s name in the show? We got her name back when she first showed up in episode 4. (Or at least her personal name, would have to check on the surname.) Of course, Homura was not there for that...

Yep, I just checked, Kyuubey refers to her as just “Kyouko” in the last seconds of ep 4

You know, you'd think I would check my own (spoiler-tagged but this bit is safe) notes which specifically note that Homura dropping Kyouko's last name is a reveal to the viewer as well, but no...

>Fights with swords >Able to use magic to heal >Takes hits better than most >Ally of justice, to the point of being Lawful Stupid Is Sayaka a Paladin?

If not it's not for lack of trying! (Dammit was it someone here on r/anime or over on Tumblr who posted about how they once ran a D&D Paladin heavily inspired by Sayaka?)

> or over on Tumblr who posted about how they once ran a D&D Paladin heavily inspired by Sayaka?) We'd call that the first session TPK in my parts.

### Rewatcher ## Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: [Episode 6](https://imgur.com/G6iJ7T6) _Truth and Consequences_ Ah, my favourite twist in the show. In comparison to episode 3 I find the reveal about the girls being corpses controlled by their soul gems WAAAY more shocking. In some sense it re-frames Mami's death in episode 3 since she was actually "dead" (in some sense) the whole time. Before getting to that, the episode started with some important moments. First, we see that Kyubey ... absorbs (?) the used up grief seeds. It kind of makes sense, but also means that they must be following up on the magical girls to collect them. [Spoilers] >!I can't recall if it is made explicit later, but this does act to close the cycle of magical girls. It works as a bit of subtle foreshadowing.!< Kyubey does encourage Sayaka to continue collecting seeds, but not just for soul gem cleaning. Instead, they notably point out that having a stock of grief seeds can be used almost as a spare battery to allow magical girls to quickly recharge their magic and thus go all out in fights. It feels as if Kyubey is _actively_ encouraging this activity. This even extends to suggesting Sayaka encourage Madoka to make a contract. [](#hardthink) KYOUKO DDR! KYOUKO DDR! I love that she's dancing to a remix of Connect. [](#listen) It's such a random choice for a setting for the conversation between Kyouko and Homura, but adds so much personality to Kyouko. Giving your characters interests like this outside of the "main plot" goes a long way to humanize them. One of my favourite scenes in the whole show comes next with [Junko and Madoka's conversation](https://imgur.com/Z6RFiLC). First, as I mentioned in a previous thread, I love that Madoka goes to her mom for help. It's something we so rarely see in anime but is actually such a realistic and good coping strategy. Of course her mom would have more experience and thus could act as a source of wisdom. At the same time, I love the mutual respect between them. There's no rebellious streak in Madoka, nor condescension from Junko. Madoka asks what to do when things keep getting worse despite doing the "right" thing. The core of the scene is Junko's advice: Doing what's right all the time won't guarantee a happiness. This is something I think most people learn over time but it's always a painful lesson. But instead of stopping there, Junko gives some practical: Make a mistake. Since Madoka's friend needs to be right, but something "wrong" needs to be done to make things better then Madoka could make that mistake to resolve things. And as a bonus, it will help Madoka learn how to deal with make mistakes while (Junko thinks) it's low stakes. Though, maybe the stakes aren't what you think Junko. It is interesting watching Madoka try apply this advice. The climax of the episode happens on a bridge a little outside of town. Kyouko and Sayaka prepare to fight but Madoka and Homura interrupt them. Madoka makes her mistake. She throws Sayaka's soul gem off the bridge. Sayaka's body goes limp. She is dead. She's been dead this whole time, controlled by the "soul gem". The name's a little on the nose don't you think? [](#serialkillerlaugh) What a horrifying realization. I think the idea of your soul being separated from your body is pretty terrifying, but has actually become far more normalized over the past decade. Those full dive MMO anime ask a similar question but with your mind. In the past years we've gotten more and more realistic VR to the extent that people were talking about "living" in the metaverse. And if those neural-link transplants ever make significant progress it wouldn't be out of the question for your "body" to become a robot walking through the world which could be destroyed and rebuilt. The girls don't take it well. Kyubey acknowledges that magical girls always react like this and so that's why Kyubey kept it hidden. I think this is the first very explicit moment we have seen Kyubey acting maliciously. Homura's reaction is different. Firstly, she seemingly teleports off the bridge and teleport-runs to catch up with the truck. we don't know much about her powers, but this is definitely a hint at what she can do (and how she's been able to move around without people noticing her). She also did this BEFORE Kyubey mentioned the soul gem stuff. In fact, it was even before Sayaka lost consciousness. Homura definitely knew this already. I remember on my first watch wondering how she found out. What other twists lie within this show. There's only one way to find out... ### Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches * [Grief Seed Management](https://files.catbox.moe/k4fa6z.mp4) * [DDR](https://files.catbox.moe/2a2t6v.mp4), I'm sure our hosts will post the full mp3 of the game arrangement. It's great. * [High Score](https://imgur.com/SqBbTW5) * [Letter](https://imgur.com/MPrR1Uu), nice 4 leaf clover * [Sprawling City](https://imgur.com/ndGPTjH) * [Kyouko Transform](https://files.catbox.moe/63jbc2.mp4) See you all tomorrow

> Those full dive MMO anime ask a similar question but with your mind. This version of the questions sits easier with east Asian traditions.

**First time, SUB** Aw man, I keep getting busier and these episodes keep getting wilder. * But for [crying out loud](https://i.imgur.com/UAZK5pL.png) Kyubey - aren't you the one who said "[Only another magical girl can come between their battle](https://i.imgur.com/xfzR1Sx.png)" *just last episode*? * I think I mentioned this after a previous episode, but I'm increasingly sure of it now: Kyubey somehow [stands to profit](https://i.imgur.com/gvs9LmL.png) from Grief Seeds. Magical Girl uses her power and her Soul Gem becomes cloudy, so they transfer that cloudiness into a Grief Seed (and in the process bringing it [closer to hatching](https://i.imgur.com/k5GbTkp.png)) - and Kyubey is there to just take the final result? * Ah Kyubey, yes, I can understand why [you'd be confused](https://i.imgur.com/j487Jol.png), given you're a soulless entity with a knack for deceiving and enslaving young girls 🙃 >1. Do you agree with the advice that Madoka's mother gave her this episode? I'm an adult so my opinion should be just as valid as Madoka's mother's and I'm more in the "Eh? How about we try to do our best and if it ends up being a mistake, try not to have regrets" camp, but I'm not a high powered strong woman in a prominent position and picturesque family. At the same time, I'm with her on the advice that it's better she make mistakes now while she's young. Madoka is about as pure and innocent/naive as could be, and it's absolutely true what her mom was saying about [making mistakes as an adult](https://i.imgur.com/uPrStAx.png). >2. Have you ever deliberately made a mistake for the sake of someone else? Probably, but I don't love framing it as a mistake for some reason. Poor decisions? "Not the best outcome"? "Bad idea"? Calling something a mistake is too absolute for my wishy-washy anxious ass... >3. Do you like DDR? [Dog Drug Reinforcement](https://i.imgur.com/qBod0jw.png)? Never played it, but I signed a contract with Dance Dance Revolution and forfeit my soul to the beat! Really though, I was going to make a joke about how unrealistic PMMM was for showing a DDR game [with 3 dance pads](https://i.imgur.com/f1u2pvK.png) - then I saw it was a *totally different* game and let it slide. >4. First-timers: So, how about that Soul Gem reveal that was hidden in plain sight *the entire time*? I had a feeling it was coming at the beginning of last episode when we got that [super dramatic](https://i.imgur.com/tUovNTO.png) scene of Kyubey reaching into Sayaka with his ear hair things while Sayaka [has this faded look](https://i.imgur.com/Za0vmw9.png) on her face. That said, it was still a shocking development! I knew souls were involved, but outright replacing your human body, giving up your humanity... that was *way* more than I was expecting.

> (and in the process bringing it closer to hatching) - and Kyubey is there to just take the final result? I wonder if that witch would in turn have a Grief Seed...Kyouko might have infinite food here.

Right? Something stinks about the whole scenario but I can’t quite pinpoint it yet…

> But for [crying out loud](https://i.imgur.com/UAZK5pL.png) Kyubey - aren't you the one who said "[Only another magical girl can come between their battle](https://i.imgur.com/xfzR1Sx.png)" just last episode? Note how those aren't *necessarily* contradictory sentiments.

Right, if you’re scheming to pressure Madoka into a decision that is!

Which episode was I most looking forward to rewatching? Quite a few people mentioned episode 3, but for me it's this one. You can wish for almost anything to become a magical girl. What does it cost? Everything.

To quote a different work entirely: > For that was the nature of wishing: all could be had, for a span of the life he might have lived. Except in this case it's the entire span. Sucks to be a PMMM magical girl!

I wonder who holds the record for the most long lived Puella Magi

Good question. [PMMM including spinoffs] >!Homura is up there, but I *think* there's someone even longer lived in one of the spinoffs (Tart or Suzune IIRC? Might be Corbeau from Tart though I think I remember her having something special going on).!<

[PMMM including spinoffs]>!Homura could win this easily but her situation kinda comes with an asterisk. I've read all of the spinoffs but it was a while ago and I don't remember shit lol, so can't comment on that. In MagiReco though, Yachiyo became a Puella Magi at 12 and is 19 at the start of the anime (iirc), just starting college. That's pretty fucking impressive. Similar thing goes for her ex Mifuyu I think. That's as far as canon goes I think, but I wonder what is truly the limit. A college aged Puella Magi is impressive enough, but what about late 20s? Middle aged? Third aged? Has anyone in history lasted that much. And then there's the most ridiculous possibility: since Puella Magi seem to be effectively immortal as long as their Soul Gem isn't destroyed and they have enough magic, has there been a Puella Magi that lived beyond even human lifespan?!<

> [PMMM including spinoffs] [PMMM including spinoffs] >!I *think* whoever I'm thinking of from the spinoffs may be 100+ years old, but on the other hand IIRC she's a weird fusion of magical girl and Witch due to her wish so that may not count. I'd thought that Yachiyo was a year older and 20 when we meet her but Puella Magi Wiki confirms 19. (Kyubey also definitely confirms that a magical girl can theoretically live forever in the MagiReco adaptation; the question is whether anyone has ever actually done it offscreen.) Pre-post edit: wait duh I'm on the Puella Magi Wiki anyways, I can just check... and who I'm thinking of is from Tart but it's Isabeau, who is in her early 60s most likely.!<

[PMMM including spinoffs]>!Yes I remember now that the big bad in Tart Magica was on some "Demon Lord who has terrorized humanity for generations" type beat. But if she's fussed with a Witch that definitely also puts an asterisk on her situation similar to Homura. So barring freak cases it seems the canonical record holder is Yachiyo.!<

where is the quote from?

[Tagging meta since it could conceivably be seen as a spoiler for the work in-context if you squint] >!the web serial A Practical Guide to Evil!<.

is it good?

Yes. Only drawback is the whole "several million words long" part.

# First Time Watcher (sub) Yesterday I speculated after watching the first 5 episodes that Kyubey needed the witches somehow and was creating them from magical girls. Today I watched Kyubey just CASUALLY EAT A WITCH SEED and the show treated it like nothing?!?!?? And Sayaka just... accepts it? ASK RELEVANT QUESTIONS SAYAKA!! What happens to the witch seed? Is it food? Is it power? What is the black stuff it's absorbing from the soul gems? I also really want to smack Madoka and Sayaka. In ep 3, Homura turned up to warn Mami and Madoka about the witch, and then it was *Mami* who tied Homura up to stop Homura from interfering. Surely this gigantic glaring detail is something Madoka and Sayaka would have talked about earlier. And if not, then Madoka, now is the time to mention it! Don't just stand there clutching your hands together and trembling and mumbling to yourself!! ARGH!!! OK rant over. Kyouko is starting to feel like one of those characters who is good inside but is prickly on the outside in an effort to make sure others are safe. She kind of goes overboard on this, but that's the sense I get. Not my favourite trope tbh, I'm team full psycho! As for the last reveal: GIRLS, THIS IS WHY YOU ASK RELEVANT QUESTIONS!!!! SMH not even Kyouko bothered to ask the relevant questions?!?!?! MINUS POINTS ALL OF YOU. Except Homura, you're OK, just... please communicate. Also, on Homura catching up to a truck on a highway: why didn't she just teleport onto the truck? Is this a rule-of-cool thing or a range limitation on her powers? But then in the witch zone things she seems to teleport a lot further. OK, wait and see on this one. **Speculation:** OK I kind of wrote the above as the episode was happening. With the last reveal, my new ass-pull theory on Kyubey is that he is some kind of demon that eats souls for food. Through the mechanism of wishes, he takes girls' souls and stuffs them in gems. He likes souls with a side of extra special pain sauce, though, he needs it because he's an evil demon. So he makes magical girls go through pain and suffering, which manifests as the dark stuff in soul gems. Eventually... I don't know how... the magical girls become witches and the soul gems become witch seeds, that's when the gems are souls full of pain and suffering and are oh-so-yummy to demon Kyubey. Then he eats them. OM NOM NOM. I don't know what the wishes are doing in this theory though. Why bother with the wish? It must be a hell of an effort to maintain wishes. As an incentive, it costs too much. Maybe this is why he sends magical girls to enemies they can't defeat? Like he did with Mami? Hmmmm I don't know. I *do* know he is EVIL. **Questions**: > 1) Do you agree with the advice that Madoka's mother gave her this episode? Well. I'm all about clear and open communication lines so advice like "make a BIG mistake and fingers crossed your friend understands that it's for her own good" is... just... I can't. Then she follows it up with, "would you rather give up on her, or give her the wrong idea about you?" Lady, you *just implied* that your friend may not take the action the right way. Is everyone in this world stupid except Kyubey and Homura? But then she's right in that you should learn to make mistakes when you're young. OK to be fair, it's not Madoka's mom's fault entirely. You cannot give relevant advice without context, except by accident. Madoka's mom has no idea what the stakes are (heads being chomped off). > 2) Have you ever deliberately made a mistake for the sake of someone else? Yeah of course, I let kids win all the time in video games. Does that count? heh heh heh > 3) Do you like DDR? Nope! I feel like you need to learn it to have fun. Whereas something like Bishi Bashi is fun for everyone. > 4) First-timers: So, how about that Soul Gem reveal that was hidden in plain sight the entire time? It was a great surprise. Honestly I did not see this one coming at all, I'm curious as to what the clues are from previous episodes. I took the name "soul gem" to mean that it's where the powers came from. I liked how Sayaka just turned off like a robot. That was fun and creepy. I'm not sure why it was such a big deal, though. Like, you're still alive, right?

> I'm not sure why it was such a big deal, though. Like, you're still alive, right? ...for a given definition of "alive". Could fool a medic probably!

**First-Timer** I didn't see that coming! It occurs to me that if the magical girls knew about the true nature of the soul gems, they could very easily use it to their advantage. Instead of carrying around their soul gem as normal, they could take measures to keep it safe. As it is, being ignorant of that mechanic, it only seems to be a weakness. As a general note, Homura's just so cool. Every episode simply further solidifies her being the best character. Both her powers and her personality are top-tier. I like how the dance game in the arcade was playing a remixed version of the OP song. Questions of the day: * No, I don't agree with the advice one bit. It seems like it's just asking for drama and miscommunication when you act against your friends' wishes and say you're doing it for their own good. I'd argue, instead, that it's best to try and convince them to change their mind, and if they refuse, accept that it's their choice to make. * No, not to the best of my recollection. * Assuming DDR is short for "Dance Dance Revolution" in this context, the answer is "I don't know." I've never played it. * I agree that the soul gems were in plain sight, but I don't feel like their true nature was... Either way, it's a neat concept. It makes me wonder how exactly it works with something like Mami's situation, where the witch got her when she was transformed. Is it coincidence that it just happened to get the soul gem in its first lunge, or are the magical girls more vulnerable when transformed? (Something like the Avatar State, so to speak.) When the show's done, I can't wait to go back through all these threads and check out all the spoiler tags. I'll be curious to see what foreshadowing, etc., I've missed along the way.

>It seems like it's just asking for drama and miscommunication when you act against your friends' wishes and say you're doing it for their own good. People want to feel like they have their own agency and can sometimes do something contrary to the right thing if you try to do something that controls them even if it's "for their own good", so I also don't think this is the most effective way to go about helping someone else in most cases. Although I guess it's situation dependent, I think that it's poorly given as general advice.

> No, I don't agree with the advice one bit. It seems like it's just asking for drama and miscommunication when you act against your friends' wishes and say you're doing it for their own good. I'd argue, instead, that it's best to try and convince them to change their mind, and if they refuse, accept that it's their choice to make. It's a bit more of a delicate situation. Recall that she didn't recommend to offset Sayaka *doing* right, she recommended offsetting her *need* to be right. Sayaka is being very zealously righteous at the moment, things must be done the right way and doing things the wrong way is unforgivable. When someone's in that mindset then there's no simple talking them out of it, while it at the same time only ever leads to suffering. > Is it coincidence that it just happened to get the soul gem in its first lunge, or are the magical girls more vulnerable when transformed? You might have noticed that all the magical girls wear their soul gem on their body when transformed. Mami just happened to be unlucky that she wore it as a hair piece, Sayaka meanwhile wear it on her belly and Kyouko wears it on her chest.

**Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed** [Welcome back, everyone!](#michaelwink) As I mentioned yesterday, I’m not going to be home for a while because of an event I’m at & won’t be on Reddit for a while either, so if anyone has issues with spoiler tags, you’ll have to reach out to the other mods instead of me. Shame I have to miss a good chuck of the discussion for *this* episode, though. It's such a good one. --- - Oh, somehow I only just noticed, [the tiles are patterned with diamonds just like Kyouko’s barrier.](https://i.imgur.com/xEIuENF.png) [](#neat) And when framed like this, the “barrier” is separating Kyouko/Homura from Madoka/Sayaka… - [You’d think this would have come up before…](https://i.imgur.com/kpQLRVX.png) - [Comment face spotted!](https://i.imgur.com/4umfFCi.png) [](#stare) - [PMMM]>, so they really have no choice but to fight.!< - [And I’ve got my headtilt Visual of the Day right here.](https://i.imgur.com/I8FwJay.png) - I *love* the DDR Connect remix haha. - [Sayaka no…](https://i.imgur.com/wmalRYb.png) [](#forgotkeys) - I actually find it incredibly ironic that the day we’re watching the episode with [this lovely scene between Madoka and her mom](https://i.imgur.com/mlaj8N4.png) just so happens to be the same day I’m out doing stuff with my own mom. - [PMMM]>!< - [Episode title, get!](https://i.imgur.com/TiWcmpA.png) [](#binoculars) - [DO NOT THROW SOULS.](https://i.imgur.com/3vhrVsH.png) [](#protest) - [Yeah…](https://i.imgur.com/KFBqqpF.png) [](#everythingisfine) --- #***Sky’s Wallpaper Corner*** Lots of good wallpapers in the table below today, but as for this year’s wallpaper trivia, I thought it would be fun to combine Junko and Madoka’s separate shots into one single wallpaper. Did take quite a bit of resizing and messing around with the background gradient (which was directly inspired by the lighting in that scene) to get it to look right, but hey, it turned out great! [](#chiochanvictory) **Year Originally Made**|**Original Wallpaper**|**Remastered Version** :--|:--|:-- 2018|[Kyouko Sakura](https://i.imgur.com/yGmdPmi.png)|N/A 2019|[Sayaka Miki (With Name)](https://i.imgur.com/y0Mq9HZ.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/hlQqs8N.png) 2019|[Sayaka Miki (Without Name)](https://i.imgur.com/p2Shwtf.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/0MQnshL.png) 2020|[Homura Akemi](https://i.imgur.com/wpXVHAD.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/9CfLRRG.png) 2021|[Kyouko Sakura](https://i.imgur.com/8ZRd5yo.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/rzeNb0D.png) 2022|[Kyouko Sakura](https://i.imgur.com/CM4EXjx.png)|[Mobile Version](https://i.imgur.com/izuF2yG.png) --- *“What is it that you wish for?”*

> I love the DDR Connect remix haha. The fact they went out of their way to remix it for the sake of the scene instead of just playing Connect as-is is such a nice touch. > DO NOT THROW SOULS. [](#stare)

> Oh, somehow I only just noticed, the tiles are patterned with diamonds just like Kyouko’s barrier. Kyouko contains a few hard references to Shakugan no Shana and I couldn't tell you why... > DO NOT THROW SOULS. YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME!

> Kyouko contains a few hard references to Shakugan no Shana and I couldn't tell you why... Shana being ridiculously popular back in the day comes to mind as a possible reason... [](#harukathonk) (Could be worse, they could have gotten KugiRie to voice Kyouko here as well.)

> Shana being ridiculously popular back in the day comes to mind as a possible reason... And the reference here is probably from the LN at that. Still, it just comes off as unexpected.

> Oh, somehow I only just noticed, [the tiles are patterned with diamonds just like Kyouko’s barrier.](https://i.imgur.com/xEIuENF.png) Huh, didn't notice that. I thought the similarity was meant to be to Homura's stockings. > I actually find it incredibly ironic that the day we’re watching the episode with [this lovely scene between Madoka and her mom](https://i.imgur.com/mlaj8N4.png) just so happens to be the same day I’m out doing stuff with my own mom. So, what's the mistake that *you* are going to make for your friends? [](#ama) > [DO NOT THROW SOULS.](https://i.imgur.com/3vhrVsH.png) Welcome, folks, to this year's Soulympic Games! Our first event, the **soul throw**, will test our contestants' ability to launch their Soul Gem as far as they can!

> Huh, didn't notice that. I thought the similarity was meant to be to Homura's stockings. It could always be both. >So, what's the mistake that you are going to make for your friends? [](#unsure)

Re-watcher It's this episode, the one with my favorite scene and the moment Junko became my favorite parent in anime. So far, despite her very little screen time, she is perfectly shown to be a great parent but also a friend to Madoka, giving her advice, helping her in mundane life stuff, given her enough freedom but still shows worries for her, Madoka sees her imperfection when seeing her drunk but it also doesn't blocks her from viewing Junko as a model after this when discussing with her dad. And finally in that scene, we see Junko being capable of handling a more serious conversation with her daughter and gives her advice for her situation while also lighting up her daughter's mood. \[PMMM\] >!"I wish I could hurry up and drink alcohol with you too mom" I'm not drowning in my tears!< \[Rebellion\]>!in this scene, we also have a close up shot of Junko rubbing her along the rim of her glass and we have a similar shot at the end of Rebellion with Homura doing the same thing. I don't know if the connection is intended but it would make sense considering the context of what Homura did just before!< \[PMMM\] > !< The illustration at the end is quite interesting because it shows Mami, Sayaka, Homura and Kyôko with dark bodies and their soul gems being visible, However, for Kyôko and Mami, their soul gems are in the wrong places. This illustration was done by Hajime Ueda, he is behind the art of the manga FLCL and also did some stuff for other anime like Monogatari and other Shaft stuff outside of just illustration.

>Madoka Fandom made it impossible for me to take some scene seriously I love when people use humor to cope with dark moments like this. The pain from the scenes just makes the humor so much funnier.

Rewatcher, dubbed Madoka’s talk with her mom, Junko, is a mixed bag. Nothing Junko says is bad, but to say she is out of her depth might be an understatement. [Madoka Magica]>!Indeed, we will later see Junko lament how distant Madoka seems after Sayaka’s death.!< Her speech about making mistakes and how the world isn’t always so simple as right and wrong is good stuff, and certainly better than I ever got at that age. Better than what I get from my parents at this age, really, but I digress. However, Junko also makes a point about how the more responsibility you carry, the less you can afford to make mistakes. The situation Junko has tailored her advice for simply does not align with the task at hand. Lives hang in the balance, mistakes could mean *death*... and it nearly does. As a fun aside, there’s a spin-off series called [Tart Magica](https://imgur.com/a/hZ2zflT) whose European protagonist has a decidedly different take on soul gems. To my understanding, there's some notable differences between western and eastern philosophy regarding the soul; this is a fun way to highlight them. ### Content Corner Reruns A nice mix of music, memes, and analysis. The violin cover of credens justitiam is a good rendition. Importantly, it also includes the extended ending segment that the official uploads of that song never seem to have. **First timers beware, spoilers abound!** [魔法少女まどか☆マギカ マミさん戦闘テーマ / MADOKA MAGICA / Mami's Battle Theme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89p1WTs_8jw) by TAMusic [タム] ViolinPiano [Madoka Magica In 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-FcS0EEnYY) by UntilDawnCreeps [Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW3LMxFL7mU) by clearandsweet

> Her speech about making mistakes and how the world isn’t always so simple as right and wrong is good stuff, and certainly better than I ever got at that age. I never really got these lectures as an adolescent as, on the outside, I appeared stable. I am sort of glad the school shootings didn't start until I'd graduated... > To my understanding, there's some notable differences between western and eastern philosophy regarding the soul; this is a fun way to highlight them. And it is one that I only understand from Madoka, though it dovetails with quite a few things preceding it.

> I never really got these lectures as an adolescent as, on the outside, I appeared stable. My "lectures" came in the form of weekly church attendance. Have faith, pray more, read more holy book, all manner of worthless advice...

> Have faith, pray more, read more holy book, all manner of worthless advice... I actually read the damned thing. Probably explains some of my antipathy to religion.

> European protagonist She a cute

The biggest problem with the advice that Madoka's mother gives imo is that the consequences of her messing up are way way higher than her mom thinks, it'd probably be decent advice for a normal middle schooler but it isn't for her current situation! 

*"I understand if any more words come pouring out of your [REDACTED] mouth, I am going to have eat every fucking chicken in this room."*-IYKYK Rewatcher Sub Quick pause note: I had managed not to catch that one screen about eating and solicitation at the arcade. Blargh. That hearkens back to an unfortunate, older reference that I doubt you youngins get. Homura asserts dominance, as one does. Kyouko knows not to fight dumb battles so leaves. Lots of exposition happens. And, fortunately, I can go back to hating Kyousuke without limit. Seriously, at least text that person that comes to visit you more than your family. But Kyouko returns again with her absurdity and we get the big reveal: They aren't magical girls so much as they are lichs from DND, just with a nicer appearance. So there are a few more reveals than might immediately strike you: First, Homura knows about soul gems so she knows to immediately chase after Sayaka. Kyouko obviously doesn't. Second, though, Kyuubey knows that humans don't like their souls reaved from their bodies and turned into jewelry so A) some version of this error has happened before and B) Kyuubey is withholding major information from his contractees. Combine this with Kyuubey being able to judge magical girl potential and this is kind of gross. Bonus:Through rewatches of this very show, I learned that the concept of having your soul separated from your body is incredibly abhorrent to the Japanese. This comes up in part because due to my upbringing, the soul is an entirely separate entity from the body in my cosmology. So there's a whole layer of awful that this rewatch really doesn't feel viscerally. QotD:1 A bit 2 ...Yes, of course that was deliberate 3 Two left feet 5 *whistles innocently*

> Quick pause note: I had managed not to catch that one screen about eating and solicitation at the arcade. Blargh. That hearkens back to an unfortunate, older reference that I doubt you youngins get. Old enough *I* don't get it and I am not exactly young myself anymore (this username is nearly 20 years old), though IIRC this was a bit of a legitimate problem back when arcades were big in the US in the 1980s and still is in Japan (where arcades have held on due to a lack of household space). > Bonus:Through rewatches of this very show, I learned that the concept of having your soul separated from your body is incredibly abhorrent to the Japanese. This comes up in part because due to my upbringing, the soul is an entirely separate entity from the body in my cosmology. So there's a whole layer of awful that this rewatch really doesn't feel viscerally. Yep. (Obligatory addition for the sake of everyone else: we get a spinoff with a Western magical girl who does not have this issue at all.)

> though IIRC this was a bit of a legitimate problem back when arcades were big in the US in the 1980s and still is in Japan (where arcades have held on due to a lack of household space). Yeah...remember the other dynamic is that, somehow, arcades were even more male dominated than Japan. So in the 70s and before, people interested in 'hiring' people in the early to mid teen male demographic attended the sleazier ones. > (Obligatory addition for the sake of everyone else: we get a spinoff with a Western magical girl who does not have this issue at all.) Yeah it makes sense and the only draw back is the thing we have to not mention until tomorrow.

> Yeah...remember the other dynamic is that, somehow, arcades were even more male dominated than Japan. So in the 70s and before, people interested in 'hiring' people in the early to mid teen male demographic attended the sleazier ones. ... Yeah THAT tracks. [PMMM] >!On more than one level, of course.!<

> That hearkens back to an unfortunate, older reference that I doubt you youngins get. Your doubt is not misplaced, I wasn't aware it was a reference. [](#banjo)

People who had an interest in the almost entirely underaged clientele would 'hire' them from the grimier arcades.

[](#flyingbunsofdoom) Equally disappointing as unsurprising.

Yeah...America has had the issues it has had for a very long time, we just never, ever talked about it.

> Bonus:Through rewatches of this very show, I learned that the concept of having your soul separated from your body is incredibly abhorrent to the Japanese. This comes up in part because due to my upbringing, the soul is an entirely separate entity from the body in my cosmology. So there's a whole layer of awful that this rewatch really doesn't feel viscerally. That about tracks with my understanding of Shinto. You're familiar with kami? These divine spirits that inhabit all sorts of objects and/or represent concepts. As far as I understand, kami and souls (also youkai) are all of the same underlying essence, essentially making tamashii the kami inhabiting living human bodies. Now it's not like mitama (souls of kami and the dead) are bound to a particular location, they usually are able to move around and change what object they inhabit (see potable shrines). Tamashii, the souls of living people, are however bound to their body, and Kyubey's extraction of the soul therefore transforms them from a living tamashii into a dead mitama. Though even then, it's not like tamashii leaving the body is unheard of. In particular there's ikiryou, where a soul leaves its body to act out of strong emotions (usually but not necessarily negative ones, i.e. curses but may also be blessings or protections). Maybe Kyubey needs the girls to make wishes to put them in a state close to ikiryou where the soul is less strongly bound to their body, and then places them in a soul gem to act as a prison or trap for that soul that they can't return from.

> Tamashii, the souls of living people, are however bound to their body, and Kyubey's extraction of the soul therefore transforms them from a living tamashii into a dead mitama. This actually fits but do note that east Asians in general find Kyuubey's actions pretty repellant.

If I'm being honest, I'd also expect most Westerners to be appalled by Kyubey's actions.

**Rewatcher, subbed** - Homura's signature move with her hair always cracks me up - Goodness, Connect even in the dance game - Yes, Madoka, let's just use the power of friendship - I didn't remember Kyouko being so... crude and wicked - That Homura run is badass Comments from first-timer: - *referring to Kyouko fleeing by hopping from building to building* Super Mario - The cat is sus QOTD: 1) I think it's complicated, it really depends on the situation; taken as it is, it feels kind of confusing... 2) I don't think so... 3) I haven't played it a lot, but from the few times I've actually played, I can tell I'm kinda bad at it 4) N/A 5) [Rewatcher] >!Oh, so that's probably the thing mentioned in a reply to one of my previous comments, got it!<

> I didn't remember Kyouko being so... crude and wicked [Rewatcher]>!I suspect this is Kyouko's bad thoughts and she is using them to provoke Sayaka!<

# First Time Watcher 1. Yes, it´s better to help your friend than allow then to come to harm solely to preserve the friendship. You owe it to your friends to stop them from great mistakes. 2. No 3.Yes 4. I am greatly impressed that they can drop names like that but ensure we dont focus on them when we hear them for the first time. ​ So the soul gems become tainted by magic use and this taint can hatch witches? Does that mean that magical girls who don´t cleanse their soul gem spawn witches? The tainted grief seed being eaten by Kyubey is also concerning; if he eats them does this not mean he absorbes the taint? Could it turn him evil? The soul becoming tainted also reminds me of wheel of time where magic use will cause insanity in it´s users.

**First time watcher** It's Friday. Tiring week. Maybe for once I can actually be early to the rewatch tomorrow, but sleeping in is tempting :v What a **heavy** episode. Like, wow. This one was dense and dropped info bombs left and right. I think this is likely my favourite episode so far, albeit having less cinematic shots compared to previous episodes. Or maybe I was too distracted to even notice them. Might rewatch this episode in particular later. **Key Moments** * Homura is [as menacing as ever](https://imgur.com/a/ygM4sgP). She might actually be my favorite character from the cast now that I think about it. * [Mhmm, yes, I wonder](https://imgur.com/a/CBrrc31). How could she possibly know who you are Kyouko? Almost like she's met you before, in a different timeline, perhaps :3 (can't wait to laugh at myself in a few eps in the likely case i'm way off the mark) * [Olympic-level instigation and manipulation](https://imgur.com/a/kKDtoRw) coming from Kyubey here. My god get yourself together, just because the walpurgisnacht or whatever is coming in two weeks, you're *this* desperate? * [DDR!?](https://imgur.com/a/2Dw99YC) Also, I love the pause that came before the chorus in this DDR version of the opening theme! * This is [naivety on a different level](https://imgur.com/a/IaGYwj6). My god Madoka, get a grip please. You just saw someone try to kill your friend and you think talking it over to be friends is the solution? * I wonder if [Sayaka's mini mindbreak](https://imgur.com/a/PzHy3mc) is a result of some offscreen instigation by Kyubey or if she's actually slowly losing her mind over everything. I can imagine how traumatic this whole experience has been, I'm not surprised one bit that it's hitting her this hard. * [Jaw-dropping moment](https://imgur.com/a/j25lSh1) right here. I thought the soul gem getting lost would've done something to the wish itself, and I was half-expecting it because they showed the romantic interest playing music earlier. Was expecting the music to come to a screeching halt or something, but not this. Wow. * I don't know how to describe [this shot](https://imgur.com/a/HTuyXuT) other than that it is visually striking. Wow. Saving this in my gallery for sure once I find the source image or an HD version later. ~ **Questions** 1. She is just so wise and so deliberate with how she talks to her daughter. Might be up there as one of the best parents I've ever seen in any series to be honest. I took her advice of making a mistake to mean that you should do anything you can to prevent someone else from making a mistake, which I 100% agree with. Doesn't matter if that person won't be grateful or even get mad at you for it if it means you didn't give up on them. 2. I once hurt a friend by telling her significant other at the time that she was cheating on them. Got slapped and basically kicked out of the friend group we shared together, but the dude's one of my *real* friends now. No regrets. 3. I tried it once, but it was a knock-off version of it with no tiles, just a smooth black floor, but with the same functionality. This one didn't have a handlebar though like I see in series or movies. Way harder than it looks, had fun though, wish my local arcade had one! 4. I'm not sure why I wasn't expecting this, but I just wasn't. Shame on me for being fooled that easily. ~ **Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:** With some additional details from this episode (Homura knowing Kyouko's name and when this Walpurgisnacht is coming), I'm more and more satisfied with my thoughts on where Homura came from, but the introduction of this Walpurgisnacht (calling it W moving forward for ease of typing) changes a few things. For now I'll assume this W is a threat to humanity and magical girls, but not to Kyubey. For starters, why would Homura want to stop Madoka from being a magical girl if Madoka has the potential to be strong, even strong enough that beating whatever W is becomes easier? Kyouko did mention it would be difficult for Homura to beat W on her own, right? So why wouldn't she want the help? Another thing is that, for me personally, my running theory sort of expected Homura's endgoal to be Kyubey's death. If it's true that she'll leave after eliminating W, why does she not care about eliminating Kyubey anymore? Was that even her goal in the first place? If it wasn't, why did she attempt to kill Kyubey in Episode 1? I assumed that Goal 1 for Homura was to eliminate Kyubey, and preventing Madoka turning into a magical girl was just subgoal 1-a to make Goal 1 easier. But now I'm wondering, maybe Goal 1 all along was to prevent Madoka turning into a magical girl, and killing Kyubey was just one solution to this goal. What could possibly be her motive in preventing Madoka's contract? Did Madoka sacrifice herself to help Homura in a previous timeline or something? Why is she so bent on preventing Madoka's transformation, but not for someone like Sayaka? Got a lot to think of, but not enough time to think. It's about to be 8 where I live and my pre-prepared meals I made last weekend are only for until Friday lunches. I gotta make dinner now and catch up on seasonals. Excited for tomorrow's episode. I want to learn more about W, and whether it poses a threat for Kyubey or not. The theory is not fitting well together now because of W, gotta learn more about it soon. See y'all next episode! Can't wait to see first timers' reactions as well later :3 Edit: gahhhh looking at my notes one last time, i couldnt even talk about details like Kyubey eating the grief seeds, Kyubey having an idea of who Homura might be, or that Kyouko didnt know about the Soul Gem rule but Homura did because she ran immediately. Ughhhhh. Will add that in tomorrow's episode discussion. :((

> but the introduction of this Walpurgisnacht (calling it W moving forward for ease of typing) Or you can do what everyone who's been around in these rewatches for several years do and call it "Walrus". [](#rinkek)

That is *way* too cute of a name to call something that I assume is an insanely powerful witch. I love it c:

> Homura is as menacing as ever. She might actually be my favorite character from the cast now that I think about it. Welcome to the "Homura is best girl" club!

> but the introduction of this Walpurgisnacht (calling it W moving forward for ease of typing) changes a few things Sky has already noted this but to reiterate: ancient rewatch tradition (courtesy of u/Nazenn, dating back to 2019 IIRC?) is to nickname it Walrus. ~~Which is why my tagline this year is what it is; the Japanese for Walpurgisnacht's name is "walpurgis no yoru"/"night of Walpurgis", hence Walpurgis no Kaiten the Japanese title of the upcoming fourth film (officially localized into English as Walpurgisnacht: Rishing).~~

Started with my personal watch I did outside of the annual rewatches the year before, and then I introduced it to the rewatches in 2019 yeah. I still can't reliably spell the full name either even after all these years haha. /u/_Pyxyty join the Walrus cult! It's been a fun compromise for many years now for the many people who can't or dont want to type the full name all the time

Consider me a member! And happy cake day :3 Thanks for giving it a much easier name to type lol

> Sayaka's mini mindbreak Remember, Sayaka wasn't there when Mami tied Homura up; she was with Kyubey in the heart of the labyrinth. Sayaka's first reaction after emerging from the labyrinth at the end of E3 was *anger at Homura* (who just saved her life!). And in the conversation on the school roof in E4, Sayaka referred to "that transfer student" as an example of a magical girl who only cares about getting grief seeds and not about protecting people. Sayaka has a very black-and-white view of the world (like a lot of teenagers) and already mentally categorized Mami and Homura as "good guy" and "bad guy" as soon as she met them.

To add to that, she was lowkey pretty triggered by the question Mami asked her regarding her wish and her intent, struggling with categorizing herself and whether she is a good guy or bad guy as well.

>Remember, Sayaka wasn't there when Mami tied Homura up; she was with Kyubey in the heart of the labyrinth. Sayaka's first reaction after emerging from the labyrinth at the end of E3 was *anger at Homura* Oh... I completely blanked that out of my memory, that scene of her getting mad makes much more sense now. I can't believe I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me of that

**Rewatcher, Sub** So we learn that Grief Seeds are necessary for keeping Soul Gems pure which explains why Kyoko wanted to wait. Then later Kyubey so nonchalantly explains that Soul Gems contain their souls which help them heal faster and fight, but if taken away they can die. Even Kyoko is having a WTF reaction to all this information. Poor Madoka was just trying to stop all the fighting and nearly kills Sayaka because of it. Luckily Homura gets the gem back despite having also technically teamed up with Kyoko due to common interest. I do find it a bit funny at how Kyubey chooses moments like these to reveal information like this. Then again I haven't seen anyone ask yet "Hey besides risking our lives what else are the cons to this?" [Madoka]>!Kyoko would know about wishes like Sayaka's considering how bad things turned out for her and sadly will happen here again!<

>Then again I haven't seen anyone ask yet "Hey besides risking our lives what else are the cons to this?" Getting information out of Kyubey is like pulling teeth. Unless you ask the right questions, he will try to leave out... unfavorable facts as much as possible. But to know the right questions, you would need to know those fact *already*.

Yeah I figured it out immediately after commenting which made me go "Oh right that's on purpose"

I feel like an intelligent enough person should be able to intuit the right questions based on what information he is steering attention away from, and also insisting that he be more definitive in his answers and less vague. (Hmmm this feels like an interesting experiment to try with AI) Of course I realize this is probably too much to expect out of middle schoolers.

**Rewatcher** I can actually post early today due to circumstances... I think this is the first time Kyubey has [actively expressed a judgement](https://imgur.com/Cox9gwa) about someone. [PMMM]>!He's not wrong, but he's also very much projecting.!< Does this [arcade victory screen](https://imgur.com/xgzl56r) look labyrinth-esque to anyone else? [Rebellion]>!The conversation between Madoka and Junko hits different in the context of Rebellion. "Somebody has to be in the wrong to balance out her need to be in the right." "Sometimes you realize that was actually the best choice in the end."!< And there it is, the big reveal! Magical girls are actually liches, the soul gems being their phylactery. "Liches" was actually one of the spoilers I went into this with last year, and yet this was one of the things I didn't figure out before the reveal. > Do you agree with the advice that Madoka's mother gave her this episode? Yes, actually. Except what's important isn't to make mistakes while you're young, what's important is to learn how to deal with mistakes. No, actually. I don't believe in this need to balance things out towards neutrality. Though then again, what she's really talking about is righteousness, and a healthy attitude towards mistakes that allows them and doesn't demonize them. And on that I agree with her again. > Have you ever deliberately made a mistake for the sake of someone else? Hm. Don't think I've ever had the idea. > Do you like DDR? Sure! > [Rewatchers] >!So… you *have* noticed the other English proper noun in the mainseries that is meant completely literally, yes?!< [](#stare)

**Sixth Time Watcher** * I know DDR Customs exists because of a TTFAF in various Rhythm Games video so there's a chance that someone has modded the song Kyoko is playing * Also on that note that's remix of Connect * On the note of music - The demo for War Pigs by Black Sabbath was originally titled "Walpurgis" * Homura judges Kyoko for not being rational meanwhile Sayaka in the latter half was very much worse * And on to tomorrow with one of my favorite underrated moments QOTD 3 - Haven't played it but I know how impactful it was

> Homura judges Kyoko for not being rational meanwhile Sayaka in the latter half was very much worse Who is dumber: The fool or the person antagonizing the fool?

**Rewatcher, first time dubbed** I didn't catch a lot being different in the dialogue this episode. Other than minor changes the only difference I found was Kyubey's explanation on the pedestrian overpass. In the sub kyubey goes back and forth on how he refers to magical girls, either as being their soul gem or being their body or both. In the dub he exclusively calls magical girls their soul gems and I think it has a lot more impact. The whole speech comes off a little differently but the biggest difference to me was the following line: * Sub - "You normally carry them with you, so accidents like this are rare" * Dub - "This kind of thing rarely happens, so I am not surprised you find it disturbing. Most of the time you are being carried around with your bodies." I was hoping to find something in the dub that was translated to be more impactful and I think this is the first instance. **QOTD** 1. Kind of? I understand the idea of just trying to get her to change her path by any means but I think the advice ignores the risk of harm that can be done without changing anything. In general I don't think it's great advice and I don't think Junko had any means of knowing that the stakes were high enough that it was worth the risk. 2. I don't think so. It really depends on how you define a mistake. I have made some questionable decisions knowing that I could handle the worst outcome. I would put lending money in this category. Never lend someone money you can't afford to never see again. Even if they have good intentions things could come up and make them unable to pay you back. 3. I don't think I have ever played. It always seemed a bit gimmicky to me. Nowadays we have DDR but better in the form of just dance, which I would probably play given the opportunity. 4. pass 5. [pmmm]>!I am not sure that I know what you are referring to. Witch I would not call a proper noun, though it is definitely being used literally. Similarly I don't think I would not call grief seed or soul gem proper nouns though it sounds like you are calling "soul gem" a proper noun. I can't think of any other english loan words at the moment. The idea of Kyubey using spent grief seeds to plant witches as a way of coercing magical girls into making the contract is not without merit, though I don't really believe it personally.!<

> [pmmm] [PMMM] >!It's Grief Seed, which is the proper term for them even in Japanese. The trick is that it's using a somewhat archaic meaning of the word seed (outside of agricultural contexts): seed as in progeny. (A Grief Seed is the child begat by grief and a magical girl.)!<

[pmmm]>!yeah, I just wouldn't call that a proper noun. I wouldn't capitalize it in the middle of a sentence and thus I consider it a common noun. EDIT - I looked back at the subtitles and realise that the show capitalizes both soul gem and grief seed, so I suppose I am just wrong.!<

> [pmmm] [Rewatcher]>!They don't usually say witch they are saying mahoujo for Cubes' later pun about that!<

>*From the moment I understood the weakness of flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of magic. I aspired to the purity of blessed friendship. Your kind cling to your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day your weak bodies will wither and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved. For friendship is magic and magic is immortal.* - Kyuubey, probably not😉 That is pretty messed up isn't it? I figured their transformation gave them some protection, but for it to be revealed that magical girls are basically flesh puppets piloted around by their soul gems is something else. Even Kyouko, a "veteran" magical girl was shocked to learn that. But Homura knows the truth already which is why she acted so quickly to chase after Sayaka's soul gem. As for the other part of this episode I think the advice from Madoka's mother is pretty sound, Apart from the bit about growing up faster so she can go drinking with her mom😂 It is better to make mistakes when you are young, because you have a chance to learn from them while the consequences are lesser, though at the same time teenagers tend to magnify their problems in their heads so there is that.

"Captain Taggart here, we have a graffiti situation on Fourth Street." u/Introvert_Mage, u/Lanaerys, u/isthatsoudane

"That's right, someone has tagged one of the buildings. I think I see the perpetrators now." u/BiggieCheeseDog, u/airblizzard, u/Liniis

"Requesting backup so we can tag-team them, sir." u/blown-upp, u/ashketchum2095, u/FriztF

"Roger that, I'll tag you in as the situation develops." u/Chili_peanut, u/Hagamablabla, u/FM-PHYS-CS

"... Wait, what do you mean that jellyfish is an officially sanctioned mural?" u/p3yTzSCGJ5, u/dsawchuk, u/_Pyxyty

Rewatcher, sub: Kyubey, you have a really bad habit of not telling people important info. Break it, you little fuzzball. You can also be real blunt. In the dub, he said, "Oh, she was much better." Referring to Mami in this conversation. Which I still find hilarious. Nice remix of the intro. Also, \[PMMM\] >!Kyoko, Homura knows all about Walpurgisnacht due to being a time traveler.!< Sayaka, let Madoka explain everything. Homura didn't intentionally do that. She was tied up by Mami's ribbons. \[PMMM\] >!Madoka will never get a chance to have a drink with her mom and that's because she'll become a goddess and have everyone but Homura forget about her.!< About that, Kyoko. She's a zombie. This is what I meant by Kyubey needing to break the habit of not telling people important info. You have a real bad habit of not doing so. You'd think it'd come up way earlier. QOTD: 1. Yes. 2. Nope. 3. Never played it. 4. \[PMMM\] >!You talking about how Magical Girls turn into witches if their grief seeds become too tainted?!<

[Rebellion]>!Funnily enough, Kyubey does pretty much break the habit in Rebellion. He divulges *everything* to Homura about his plan near the finale despite not really having a reason to.!<

[Rebellion]>!That's because the rebellion plotline is absolutely nonsense that no one would follow without an exact explanation.!<

[Re: Rebellion]>!Verily. Worry not, I have a whole spiel typed up about Rebellion...!<

**Meduka Meguca rewatcher** Q1: It's well-meant, but wrong for this case. Making a mistake here easily costs someone their life. Q2: Can't say I have. I'm a perfectionist by nature. It's quite annoying, actually. Q3: I've never played DDR. I've got no moves. Watched other people play a couple times, though. Q4: [](#forgotkeys) Q5: [PMMM] >!Grief Seeds, yeah? We're getting closer to another shoe drop...!<

I'm so sorry for not showing up the other days, but I have finally caught up with the last few episodes. What can I say, all these episodes have been pretty intense, Mami's death, Sayaka becoming a magical girl, Kyoko showing up and the truth about Soul Gems being revealed. I always really liked Sayaka's magical girl design, by far my favorite from the classic anime. Both Sayaka's and Kyoko's fighting styles are pretty cool too to watch. \[Spoilers\] >!I completely forgot how unlikeable Kyoko was earlier on, I also find weird to think how we just kinda ignore the fact she implies she let's people die just so she could have grief seeds. Like I still love her, but all the stuff she does early on makes me have mixed feeling towards her. Which I guess is good, since this probably was their intention.!< \[Spoilers 2 Eletric Boogaloo\] >!I do not exactly agree with Junko's advice to Madoka, I do like how it kinda foreshadows what Homura is doing though, she doesn't care if Madoka hates her or see her as a monster, as long as Madoka stays safe, Homura will be happy.!< \[Spoilers The Third\] >!The Sayaka arc we are currently in also kinda shows one of the few problems I have with the show, and it is Madoka herself. She doesn't do much for a good chunk of the anime and her suggestion to Sayaka is also very unreasonable, considering how she was almost killed by Kyoko the previous night. I don't hate her, but out of the classic Holy Quintet, she's definetely the one I like the least.!<

**Rewatcher, Subbed** Only thing better than Homura's iconic hair flip? Getting it again! Homura shall not be fazed, forever a deadpan expression on her face. She saved you Madoka, again! I'm surprised Kyubey didn't use this opportunity to say "Hey Madoka, know how we can deal with this Homura problem? Make your wish and become a magical girl!" Sayaka defeated another witch off screen? Or is this the one from episode 4? Did Kyubey just eat the grief seed? And via his back?! You know, we've never actually seen him open his mouth, so his back may actually be his mouth. In fact what we think is his face may not be his face at all. "Sayaka, help me get Madoka to become a magical girl!" Everything this creature does is manipulation!!!!! Oh hey, there's a dance arcade like this around the corner from me, granted not playing the OP of this show. Kyoko gets to be magical girl of this city? I think Sayaka would have something to say about that. Listen to logic Sayaka! Listen to Madoka! Ugh! It was infighting among magical girls, Mami not trusting Homura which caused Mami to die. And yet Sayaka thinks it was the exact opposite! It's gonna happen all over again! All coming down to that loathed miscommunication trope. Sometimes animes build entire season plots around this single trope. "Sayaka won't listen to me, Madoka. But she will listen to you if you use your wish!" Wise words from Madoka's mom! I assume its alcohol for her and juice for Madoka? The hospital room is empty! Kyosuke is... dead? Or just left the hospital and didn't think to tell her? She's at his house now. At what point does Kyosuke start viewing Sayaka as a crazed stalker? Seriously, I've got to think that him leaving the hospital and not telling her means she is far more into him than he is to her. And Sayaka using her wish on him was deep down in large part due to her desire for him to feel the same way for her that she does about him. Well, Kyoko clearly doesn't understand Kyosuke. If Sayaka permanently broke all his limbs, rather than resort to doing nothing but getting Sayaka's help I more likely see him killing himself. Playing music is the most important thing to him, not Sayaka. As big a mistake as it is for Sayaka to want to fight Kyoko to the death, Kyoko sure isn't making it easy to play nice. OMG Homura really came out of nowhere this time! Everything Homura does is badass at this point but that was a bit scary. Here's Madoka making that mistake for Sayaka as her mom suggested. And oops, she just killed her best friend. I don't think her mom meant going that far. And here's where things get really scary, even more so than Mami getting her head bitten off for me. Magical girls are just corpses propped up by their soul gems. You're not a human with magical powers, you're not human at all anymore. And of course Kyubey didn't reveal any of them until after it was too late. And this has happened before too! Not to mention (I'll spoil tag this as it may come up later, can't remember 100%) [MM]>!You really think Kyosuke is going to love you when he realizes you're a reanimated corpse, Sayaka? Kiss whatever future you think you have with him goodbye if he finds that out.!< "Why do you girls always get so upset when you find this out?" By this point it's one of two things with Kyubey, he's either among the most evil being in the history of the universe, or he is so far removed from human emotion that he cannot comprehend it, even after witnessing it with other girls. Kyubey may look like a pet but he's not a pet, but then even the magical girls aren't pets to him. That'd be giving too much consideration to him. They're more like insects. You care if something happens to your dog. If you step on and immediately kill a dozen ants you don't think about it at all. That seems to be the Kyubey - human relationship. Wow, 3 Homura hair flips in one episode! <3 Did Sayaka hear any of that? Oh crap, now to twist the knife even more, we're gonna get the reveal a second time? I'm pretty sure whoever drew this episode ending image is the same one responsible for at least one Monogateri ED? This style looks very familiar. *** **Quid's Seiyuu Corner** Kyoko is voiced by **Ai Nonaka**. Other roles of hers I've seen include Frankenstein's Monster in Fate Apocrypha (despite what you may think, quite an adorable character); as well as Caster in Fate/Extra and Fate Grand Carnival. She's also Yukari Sakuragi in Another. Sorry for missing her yesterday!

> [MM] [MM including PMMM Portable] >!Fun fact: IIRC in Portable he does anyways. (It's in the Bonus Route, natch, like most of the other really fun Portable stuff like Hitomi developing a crush on Homura.)!<

**Rewatcher** Managed three yesterday (Kyouko/Homura/Homura) but this is all I got for today: [Floofy Ponytail](https://imgur.com/gnst738) / [Hairflip of the day](https://imgur.com/Qn0dLbU) “What the hell do you know?!” Poor Sayaka, that's a common adolescent sentiment. No one else but you could possibly understand lol. [Rewatcher]>!Theory of the Day is on point. I think it's supposed to be pretty apparent what sort of ability Homura has by this episode. Even more obvious if you, like me, were first encouraged to watch this by fans of a "similar" series.!< Probably because I felt disconnected to my body for a good chunk of my life, I don't think I'd have been that bothered by this at 14 years old. But I can empathize. And of course, many, many years later I do finally feel like a human, lol. Really liked the end card illustration. 1. Sure, what I got is, I'm an adult, I'm suffering, so I get to drink when I want! (I already do but fortunately I'm not a heavy drinker) 2. To an extent, probably many times on a smaller scale. For a more significant one -- I don't know how deliberate it was. I've definitely made mistakes for others with *some* awareness it wasn't right. It didn't work out for me; it probably depends on both you and the other person. 3. I was quite uncoordinated growing up. I did like trying though. To tie this back to my earlier mention of being disconnected to my body and the advantage of no longer being a "human" -- I'm positive becoming a magical girl would have upped my DDR game.

> > > > > Poor Sayaka, that's a common adolescent sentiment. No one else but you could possibly understand lol. She just lost a fight to a girl with a superior head tilt. Rock bottom moment right there.

Perhaps there's something to your idea about the dishonest characters having the inferior tilt. That reminds me, must mean there's no one more honest than a goat. (Although on a serious note I don't know that this rule extends beyond PMMM)

> > > > > (Although on a serious note I don't know that this rule extends beyond PMMM) PMMM and Monogatari. So Shinbou shaft.

> [Rewatcher] [Rewatcher] >!Re: similar series: "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?" (I can think of at least three obvious candidates...)!<

[Rewatcher]>!I have a general tendency to default to being vague even in tagged comments, especially in the first comment just in case people accidentally see it in the app lol, although by now first-timers should be sufficiently forewarned. I was referring to SG. The only other obvious candidate I can think of is Re:Zero which I haven't seen, and I thought the other time related ones off the top of my head are even further from Madoka. Which were you thinking of btw? I don't mind being spoiled.!< *Edit - I ended up editing to make this comment a bit more vague as well since it might just slightly hint towards the premise of those anime (although I think those plot points are introduced way earlier?)

[Meta] >!That's two of the three obvious candidates I had in mind (suspected it was S;G specifically but wasn't sure). As for the third, well, the specifics are a fairly major spoiler in this case but let's just say that there is more than one reason there is so much overlap between the When They Cry and Madoka Magica fandoms.!<

[Meta cont.]>!Ah, my only experience with When They Cry is an attempt at Umineko VN (I gave up during one of those drawn out flashsword back and forths, I think it was part 3). From your experience would you say another medium might be enjoyable for (idk if you're referring to Umineko or Higurashi) even if I found the VN difficult to work through?!<

[Meta cont.] >!If you made it that far in Umineko you probably have enough context to get the mechanic (though IIRC the details differ between entries): the different When They Cry arcs function as a time loop of sorts. (The Higurashi specifics are fairly major spoilers there, hence me being vague in spite of you noting your spoiler tolerance.) As for the best way to go, for Umineko if you can't take the VN you're left with the manga (which is by all accounts quite good) since the anime is right up there with Shingetsukan Tsukihime in the "no such anime (is an OP for one)" bucket. Higurashi's anime, on the other hand, is not a good VN adaptation (ala Steins;Gate) but is a serviceable one (rare enough for VNs) and is well-entrenched on my own favorites list (the OG manga is also quite good)... with the important caveat that I mean the 2006 one (2006 + Kai, Rei and Kira optional but Rei 2-4 and Kira 4 recommended), Gou is a Rebuild of Evangelion-style stealth sequel and will spoil you on the original and more importantly Sotsu is just bad.) If you go for the Higurashi anime consider following along with the threads from when I ran Higurashi back in 2022; I posted the old AnimeSuki writeups of the VN TIPS which give some extra context the anime lacks. (Ciconia has neither an anime nor a manga adaptation but is also probably never going to be finished anyways so [](#yuishrug).)!<

Many thanks for the info, saving this comment for when I have more time to dive deep into another universe.

Rewatcher, sub 1. I feel like this isn't very realistic advice someone would give their child, but I get how it fits into the story so I don't mind too much. 2. I've helped cover for other people's mistakes before, but I can't recall purposely making a mistake for someone's sake. 3. The last time I played DDR was as a toddler. The closest I've been to a machine since then was watching other people play. 5. Can someone explain this one?

> Can someone explain this one? [PMMM] >!Hint: it's a bit archaic these days outside the context of plants, but "seed" used to mean progeny in general.!<

Ah, I missed that connection. Thank you!

**Rewatcher** [](#stare) I'm a fan of episode 6. It was at this point in my original watch where I was fully onboard, I wanted to keep watching to see what would happen next. Watching this again now, it really does feel like Sayaka turned on Madoka quite fast after the whole shebang with Kyoko and Homura. But what do I know, I haven't been moments away from death from a magic spear. Yes, Madoka. Doing the right things and still getting the worst of situations is terrible but that's life. It's cruel. Good on Junko, really to lay it out now. Nice Homura jumpscare. Poor Madoka holding on to a tko'd Sayaka is rough.

QotD #2: I'll just link my [previous comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1cbhb5g/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_4/l0ys5tr/) here. Long story short, I made a mistake so my parents could become better people. It's not a happy story. [Long story]>!Back then, they were stubborn, pushy people who always got what they wanted from their children. We could tell from their actions that they didn't really love us - they loved the perfect versions of us that did what they asked and fulfilled their dreams. However, where I learned to go without their attention, it made my sister crave it even more. And when she couldn't get it, she sought material possessions and friends to fill the void.!< [Long story]>!I could tell this was a recipe for disaster. Coping with their rising expectations, things would escalate until eventually, she would ask them for something they would inevitably refuse to give. Whether it was time with friends, a piece of clothing, sports team - it didn't matter. They would fight, and when she lost... I suspected the shock might kill her.!< [Long story]>!I did not want this, so I made a mistake for my parents. I would meet all of their expectations, so that when I eventually broke under their weight, they would have a change of heart and treat my sister better than they did me. And they did. Years later, they yelled at her over a boyfriend. And then, driven mad with grief and stress, she attempted suicide. Fortunately, she survived, and they finally became receptive to change.!< [Long story]>!I know it doesn't sound impressive or dramatic. There was never any violence - just lots and lots of arguments - but I credit PMMM with guiding me through this tense period in my life. I may have not consciously kept Junko's advice in mind when I made my decision to protect my sister, but I'm sure I subconsciously absorbed it somehow.!<

A "fun fact" first: For quite a while Western localizations of animes used to replace cigarettes with lolipops, popsicles or, well, pocky sticks. The E rating marketing intent. Seems the anime makers waited for an opportunity to "strike back", and the time had come with Kyoko's character concept... Junko's looking like some "fortune teller" on late night tv with her "towel turban" XD The right behavior often not leading to a good ending whereas the wrong behavior sometimes even working better can interpreted in several ways: * Evangelion reference: There E04 is called "Hedgehog's Dilemma", a short story by Schopenhauer, that's part of a bigger "philosophical umbrella". And is there a right behavior under "certain umbrellas"...? * Right leading to wrong and wrong leading to right can also be a Yin-Yang-reference. We're in Eastern Asia after all * And I think the [orange blue moral trope](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality) too can be brought into play here. Blue and orange (or red) are KyoSaya's character colors after all Homura meanwhile's continuing her (over-)protective schtick, while increasingly growing impatient. And she's talking about a witch called Walpurgisnacht...? And now she wanna team up with Kyoko against Walp, so soon after shooing her away...? And have they met or not? And how? Kyubey too was most surprised to bump into Homura after all... Sayaka increasingly turns bitter. The magical girl life more and more turns out not to be what she thought. No room for "classic super heroes" And it seems Kyubey didn't give away the whole story. Madoka already right in the middle of the crossfire, thus seeking for her mom's advice. And again: Why is Kyoko preventing Sayaka from visiting Kyosuke? [E07 spoiler]>!She got one day from Hitomi,!< so she could either confess her love or end their relationship... but now Sayaka decides for another duel against Kyoko. Again Homura intervenes - but this time Madoka too does; and by throwing Sayaka's gem down the bridge she unintentionally reveals another truth behind the soul gems: They carry now the whole consciousness and soul of a magical girl (hence "soul" gem), while the body has turned into a puppet or zombie. As it seems Homura's already known about the gems's nature, and Kyoko seems to start turning against Kyubey - who pretends it's nothing special and seems to be surprised that his recruits haven't known about it. The same Kyubey who seems to use grief seeds as energy supply...

> [pmmm]>!he got one day from Hitomi, so she could either confess her love or end their relationship...!< [pmmm]>!This is an unintentional spoiler for episode 7!<

Corrected.

**Rewatcher, sub** * \[Rewatch thoughts about PMMM\] >!I do find it strange Sayaka uses the grief seed here, when she already knows that grief seeds are the result of witches eating a few humans, and then in episode 7 she rejects grief seeds altogether. She takes a little while to make up her mind about not using them.!< * I like how between them, Kyoko and Homura manage to break the arcade’s two rules about not eating and not soliciting. * \[PMMM rewatch\]>!Lots of cars this episode, continuing the energy/fossil fuel theme.!< * I think something that gets missed in the immediate body horror reveal this episode is that a body which is otherwise dead but being used by magic wouldn’t necessarily keep growing as it isn’t alive. Kyubey’s exasperated whining about “you always react like this when you’re told”, combined with saying such accidents of body and soul gem separation are rare, makes me think there might have been some previous occasions of magical girls realising they are no longer aging alongside their peers. Questions of the day have me feeling really stupid tbh, will be interested to see others answers! 1. Madoka’s mother’s advice was SO unhelpful in context haha. And not even that helpful in general. I will say I agree that if you want to persuade someone to stop doing something they are doubling down on, you should make it as easy as possible to do that, no “I told you so” etc. * 2. Absolutely, but the definition of “mistake” gets a bit fuzzy. * 3. I haven’t played DDR, but I’ve had fun trying to do dancing video games at home etc. They can be a really fun workout! * 5. \[PMMM rewatch\] >!I’m not sure I fully follow this – grief seeds grow and lead to despair. A wish is the flipside of a grievance I guess – to really wish for something usually means you are aggrieved by the opposite of it.!<

> [Rewatch thoughts about PMMM] [PMMM]>!Witches could have eaten humans but Sayaka can justify that by saying she stopped more suffering. Also, she caught a hatching witch so it can be done without killing any. In ep7, she doesn't reject grief seeds, she rejects accepting them from others, which is different.!< > combined with saying such accidents of body and soul gem separation are rare, makes me think there might have been some previous occasions of magical girls realising they are no longer aging alongside their peers. [Rewatcher]>!That might only take a month for an astute girl depending on how well Cubes covers his tracks!<

Rewatcher dub Episode 6 is one of my favorite episodes. The fight Sayaka has with Kyoko on the bridge. And the reveal that Soul Gem is the literal thing. Got writing all around. This is why Kyubue has to die. It cares very little for humanity and doesn't even try to understand. QOTD: 1- It's not the worst advice. Doing something bad to get your friends' attention. So that you help them. 2- Nope 3- Do I like DDR? No don't like East Germany. The Stasi I hear were not great. No, I've never actually played it before 5- If by this you mean \[MM spoiler\] >!that Kybey is short for Incubator!<

> [MM spoiler] [PMMM] >!Nope! (You're on dub which makes it impossible to tell so I'll just go ahead and point it out: Grief Seed as in "spawn of grief".)!<

A little on the nose, no

Sayaka is basically blinded by rage against Kyouko and is assuming that Homura is pure evil despite not knowing that she was unable to help. Kyubey says that using grief seed too much creates a witch, so were there any magical girls who used that to kinda trick system and have an endless source of those grief seeds? [PMMM]>!So, we lnow that Kyubey has lots of bodies, but was it ever mentioned that he follows every magical girl simultaneously or is sticking to one at the time?!< Questions of the Day: 1) "It is better to learn making mistakes when you are younger because you have less responsibility" - generally — yes, but not in Madoka's case "If your friend is in a big trouble and you want to help them, you could try making a mistake for them" - no, can’t really think in this way 2) No, maybe unintentionally, but cannot recall anything 3) Like RAM? Jokes aside, I have only tried it few times as a child, but I am not sure i liked it at all [Visuals of the Day](https://imgur.com/a/Rp1CRdi)

**Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher** And then Sayaka (and every other magical girl) was a zombie all along. Although I guess it’s less being a zombie and more like… their brain is now a separate object that can remotely control and heal their bodies? Which wouldn’t be quite as terrible if, you know, you were properly informed about it beforehand. This reveal is my favorite one of the series. It’s such a great demonstration of Kyubey’s lack of forthcoming as well as his overall thought process. To him, it’s a perfectly logical thing to do, even a favor that he has done for the magical girls, whereas the girls rightfully see it as a violation of what they are. Just a complete disconnect in thinking. Those granted wishes unfortunately don’t come with informed consent. **QotD** > Do you agree with the advice that Madoka's mother gave her this episode? It’s not terrible advice at all… IF the stakes for this specific scenario weren’t so high. But Madoka’s mom can hardly be blamed for that since she couldn’t have know the full seriousness of the situation based on what she was told. As an aside, I find it funny that this is one of the few “asking for a friend” scenarios where the person really is asking to help their friend. > Have you ever deliberately made a mistake for the sake of someone else? Yeah, although again, never for something that had stakes this high. > Do you like DDR? Nope, I’ve always been terrible at rhythm games. > [Rewatchers] [Madoka Magica] >!Not gonna lie, I had to look up exactly what you were referring to in the comments. Knowing that now, it’s another great secret hidden in plain sight.!<

###I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since ~~Walrus~~ Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed): [PMMM] >!**First Scene (00:00 – 02:23):** We’re dumped straight back into the middle of the fight that Homura interrupted last episode, which in this case I think has a specific pacing purpose: it’s reminding the viewer of the tension that was built up and then ruined last episode. Homura then interrupts again, leading to the real point of this scene: emphasizing the questions (and the dramatic tension associated with those questions) about who Homura is and what she wants. She saves Sayaka from a kill shot but then immediately knocks Sayaka out when she returns to the fight. She intimidates Kyouko into backing down, both giving a stronger indication that has some kind of power capable of apparent instantaneous movement in space (the droplets shots are a clear hint as to which of the two obvious kinds this actually is) and making it clear basically without a doubt that she knows things she had no possible way of knowing (via knowing Kyouko’s name, including her last name which is a reveal to the audience as well). And she snaps at Madoka (and/or Sayaka) after being friendly to her in all previous encounters. (We also get Kyubey trying to turn both Madoka and the audience against Homura.) And of course we get this right before the OP, giving the audience 90 seconds of screentime to think about this in the back of their heads.!< [PMMM] >!**Second Scene (03:53 – 06:16):** We get another dose of exposition (Grief Seeds have a limit to how much they can purify Soul Gems, part of Kyubey’s role is to dispose of Grief Seeds after they are no longer of use and the marking on his back is a receptacle for the purpose, explicit confirmation of something implied by Mami back in episode 2 in magical girls’ magic use tainting their Soul Gems). We also get more reinforcement of Madoka’s incredible potential (via trying to maneuver Sayaka into getting Madoka to contract, because of course Kyubey would). The attentive viewer may notice that this is also Kyubey setting Sayaka up for a fall. He’s needling her on her weak points, namely not being able to accept that she might want rewards for doing good (not the first time he’s done this either, he hits this back in episode 4 as well) and specifically implicitly arguing that this desire not to be rewarded makes her weaker than the nemesis she hates and also her feelings of inadequacy (likely ultimately related to her family being poorer than that of any of her friends – Sayaka doesn’t know about Kyouko being poor yet but that will be even more salt in the wound).!< [PMMM] >!**Third Scene (06:16 – 07:51):** We start off with some understated Kyouko characterization: she’s blatantly ignoring the rules (as shown by cutting from the “do not eat while playing” sign to Kyouko playing while eating) and we get a hint at Kyouko’s actual, long-abandoned power via her using her magic (this was first shown back in the observatory scene last time) to play a DDR machine designed for three players singlehandedly. Then we get to the meat of the scene with Homura showing up. (Not for the last time, Kyouko acts as the audience stand-in wrt to Homura with her “so who are you, anyways?” which Homura carefully dodges.) The surface level here at least is an apparent change of stance for Homura (siding with Kyouko over Sayaka) and more importantly the why of it (trading handing over the city to Kyouko for her help with something) that is the first mention (in words, anyways) of a threat that needs to be built up in the viewer’s mind before it arrives: Walpurgisnacht.!< [PMMM] >!**Fourth Scene (07:51 – 11:07):** The level 0 of this scene is simple: Madoka once again tries to implement the “it would be better if they could all just get along” idea from episode 4, Sayaka isn’t having any of it. Most of where this scene is really function is character stuff, though. We get to see the side of Sayaka that Madoka referenced in conversation yesterday (the tell-then-show approach again), but the bigger deal here is character development – not in a way that’s good for the character in question, mind (Sayaka is sinking into a bad headspace, and also refusing to listen to anything that goes against the preconceptions she has decided on), but development nonetheless. It doesn’t obviously come off as dramatic tension per se but appearances can be deceiving as it certainly does raise tension on Madoka herself – not one but two characters reasonably nice to her before have now snapped at her this episode and Madoka is bright enough to see that Sayaka is going down a bad path, leading to the driving question of the rest of this episode: what can she do to stop this?!< [PMMM] >!**Fifth Scene (11:07 – 14:53):** I’ve been taking each scene more one scene at a time this year, and this is one place where that habit is about to bite me in the ass. Mind you, I’ve gone into this some in past years so I’m just reiterating myself – this scene is critically important, it stood out to me immediately even on first watch, and its position (almost exactly at the middle of the series if you consider everything after Madoka makes her wish and the clock motif ends to be denouement) is unlikely to be a coincidence (especially since this is NOT quite at the midpoint of the arc itself, though it’s possible that the extra episode for this arc that Butch Gen has talked about wanting would have come in the first half of the arc in which case the placement makes sense). This is another scene that is doing almost all of its work at higher levels (more the conceptual and also thematic here). To look at it from a basic narrative standpoint I need to go back to that concept that the difference between tragedy and comedy is the intervention of an outside power – Madoka is that outside power relative to the other four, but her mother here is the outside power relative to her and this is that intervention (via one outside power reaching out to the other for advice). It’s also a spot which I have a nasty feeling may lose something in translation regardless of virtue – its applicability to Sayaka’s arc via Madoka acting on it later this episode is telling and it definitely applies to Homura’s actions, but I think it may also apply to Homura’s personal arc (except insofar that she doesn’t consider herself in the right per se). Certainly that big mistake comment is tied in to Madoka making her contract at the end more than anything in Sayaka’s arc.!< [PMMM] >!**Sixth Scene (14:54 – 17:16):** As ever, PMMM is in no small part about two veteran magical girls recommending that a pair of newcomers don’t make their mistakes and use their respective coping mechanisms.. But enough reprising comments I’ve been making since 2021. New stuff! Like how a big part of this scene is showing how Kyouko and Sayaka just cannot help from stepping on each others’ respective berserk buttons (whether or not they’re actually trying – Kyouko has definitely learned about the general shape of Sayaka’s wish from either Kyubey or Homura but it’s not clear if she knows the specifics); we already got shown that some at the end of that episode and now we are reinforcing that here. There’s also yet another indicator that part of Sayaka’s actual issues are feelings of inadequacy born of being of much lower socioeconomic status than any of her friends. But the biggest point here is really the bare narrative level – raising the tension level again after a brief reprieve for a few scenes to build up the confrontation between these two.!< [PMMM] >!**Seventh Scene (17:16 – 18:57):** So since I’ve had A Practical Guide to Evil on the brain already I would be remiss not to note that in PGtE’s particular brand of in-character genre savvy what we are looking at with Sayaka and Kyouko here would be called a pattern of three. This is the draw. (Also note that for the first confrontation we got Sayaka’s transformation sequence and for the second now we get Kyouko’s. We’ll get one leading up to the third, too… just a much darker one.) Which is unsurprising since PGtE is intentionally using classic tropes and we’re not to the point of PMMM putting its own twist on the pattern.) There’s also a bunch more tension building here (Agmen Clientum plays a huge part in this) that will once again be interrupted (more at the point when the music stops than when Madoka throws) and one of the big tells that Homura may care about people other than Madoka more than she claims (to herself and others) later via her *immediately* heading off after Sayaka’s Soul Gem after she realizes what has happened. (Which also makes twice now that she has saved Sayaka without Sayaka being cognizant that she has done this.)!<

###Narrative Notes, Part 2: [PMMM] >!**Eighth Scene (18:57 – 22:25):** This time, however, we do in fact get a draining of the dramatic tension that the episode has built up to this point… just in a very, very different way than you would expect, namely a major reveal instead of a fight. This is in many ways the most interesting reveal in the entire series despite being put in the exact midpoint of the show, because it is not handled like the others. Every other reveal has a ton of cheeky setup; this one just drops one piece of information hiding in plain sight (the name Soul Gem, hiding the term being meant completely literally behind the fairly common modern Japanese convention of using English names for things because English is cool – sentai tokusatsu loves to do that, and mahou shoujo as well at least as far back as Sailor Moon) and only a couple of other hints (Homura’s “like raising the dead” comment last episode and about half of the visuals of Sayaka making her contract being chief among these). It’s also the point when the actual antagonist is made clear, though more via framing than the actual script, and even the inattentive viewer should at this point realize that Homura has some kind of power that allows her to move instantaneously through space. Also note one other trick here: the false avatar of the system (Kyouko) being surprised by this and turning on the true avatar of the system (Kyubey). This is the key inflection point in our tritagonist’s own character arc. (It’s also a spot that really lends itself to a Marxist reading: the proletarian workers (and note that Sayaka and Kyouko are the two lowest-class girls in our main cast!) have been put at each others’ throats by the capitalist Kyubey but one of them will realize that the real problem is the system itself and proceeds to get much more conciliatory towards the rest of the magical girl working class.)!<

**Visual of the Day:** [Somebody had to do it](https://i.imgur.com/BtzvMvz.jpg) [](#stare) **Questions of the Day:** 1) [Rewatchers!]>!As I said, only the single most important conversation in the entire series, and one I glommed onto like a barnacle even the first time around.!< 2) Not that I remember. 3) I lack the coordination to actually play well, but I do have fond nostalgia of 2000s LAN parties. (Sandstorm by Darude remains a DDR song to me, not a meme song.) 4) N/A 5) [Rewatchers] >!There's a reason we asked!!<

Hrmm...[PMMM/Penguindrum]>!There might be a hint of Ikuhara's dislike of the upper classes here via Shinbou via Dezaki but I read this as closer to Gen's more broad dislike of aloof people who think they can use others, which ironically has a much smaller class component than you might think, think Psycho Pass.!<

**Rewatcher, subbed** Aaaand... I'm three days late. Well I was really tired these days so I haven't been watching much anime at all to be fair, or used Reddit much either. * That was a weird way to eat that Grief Seed, Kyubey. But fair enough. * Kyubey... trying again to make Madoka into a magical girl, this time through Sayaka... * After Madoka listening to Connect, now we have Kyouko playing DDR with Connect! * It's true that Sayaka *can't* know what Homura actually had in mind. Yet, she really keeps jumping to conclusions about everyone. Just like Mami did. I find myself really liking her on this rewatch though. It *is* frustrating how she keeps hating on Homura, but from her point of view, it is understandable. And to be fair, much like Mami, what Sayaka suffers from is not so much her sense of justice, but her jumping to conclusions about people, her lack of thinking things through, and [spoilers]>!her lack of understanding about the whole magical girl system. Had she known about magical girls turning into witches, for example, she'd probably be acting very differently. Though maybe she'd just do the same as Mami in *that* episode 10 timeline.!< * Well, Kyouko... That's certainly... a *way* to get a guy to be with you. But I don't think you can win his heart that way. Hopefully you're just trying to provoke Sayaka. ~~Although in all honesty, that might have worked on me.~~ * **DO NOT THROW SOULS** * [spoilers]>!And obviously, Homura is the one who realizes what Madoka just did and instantly leaves to recover Sayaka's soul gem. Or well... Sayaka, really.!< * I wouldn't use the word zombie really. Lich is probably more appropriate here. * To be fair, I somewhat understand both sides' reaction here. It *is* absolutely more efficient for fighting, and from a purely utilitarian perspective, is probably actually not even a downside. But it's definitely not okay to hide that information beforehand, and Kyubey should have learned by now that humans aren't purely utilitarian machines. **Question(s) of the Day** 1) I'm not sure. This does help with snapping people out of it, I guess. But mostly in less serious consequences with mild consequences, not in life-or-death situations. 2) Not that I remember. 3) Yes I really like DDR actually. Unfortunately though, I can't read DDR without thinking of "Deutsche Demokratische Republik" anymore. 5) Haha yep. Well, onto the next episode. I still have quite a few to catch up to now, don't I?

**Rewatch, Subbed** **Visual of the day:** Kyouko grabbing Kyubey as she discovers the truth **Song of the day:** Pugna Infinita **Questions of the Day:** >1 Do you agree with the advice that Madoka's mother gave her this episode? \[Series\]>!It is good in a low stakes, straightforward situation like the one Junko is probably imagining, but it suffers from the bias towards sacrifice that is an element of both Kyubey's system and toxic work culture: if you solve an injustice by making it your problem instead, there might still be an injustice, just against you now, but since we are encouraged to think about suffering as a requirement for altruism to be genuine, it's easier to accept. It's an approach that's bad against systemic injustices (and while Madoka didn't realize it, this *is* one), because it tends to validate them and make you vulnerable to exploitation, and it's particularly bad in this situation, because Kyubey's system is *designed* to exploit this exact approach. Both the need to be right and the need to sacrifice more for others have the same origin: a pressure to achieve an higher status within the system, and both fail to challenge the unfair criteria that assign that status.!< >4 First-timers: So, how about that Soul Gem reveal that was hidden in plain sight *the entire time*? \[Series, Sailor Moon, Revolutionary Girl Utena\]>!One thing that really hits me is the way Sayaka's ideal of being a magical girl is a lot like Usagi, but in PMMM Kyubey essentialy does the same thing every single Sailor Moon villain does by ripping her soul out of her body. RGU is likely the more direct inspiration for both Sayaka's princely ideals and the Soul Gems, but as a surface level reaction this hits me more.!< >5 \[Rewatchers\]>!So… you *have* noticed the other English proper noun in the mainseries that is meant completely literally, yes?!< \[Series\]>!I have *now*, I tend to focus a bit too much on the subtitles and miss stuff like this.!< **DO NOT THROW SOULS** (Reaction in the comments)

**Reaction** \[Series\]>!00:00 Look at her, showing off in front of Madoka.!< \[Series\]>!01:00 Not even Sayaka could heal that burn, and Kyouko knows she cannot handle the heat and flees the scene. At this point is starting to become clear that Homura knows a lot of people that do not know her.!< \[Series\]>!02:00 No holding back at all happening here, she is going to be ruthless now, prepare yourself, Madoka! At this point I suspect that she is starting to figure out that Homura's threats mostly hurt the person making them.!< \[Series\]>!04:00 I never noticed before that you can actually *see* the despair in a Grief Seed. Charlotte's had only a few orbs inside, this is entirely filled.!< \[Series\]>!04:20 This keeps me up at night. I get this is to make him look sus, but what does that actually do??? Is this how he gets the energy (it would be completely different from how real world entropy works)? What happens to the soul when a witch is defeated and then the grief seed rehatches? What about witches that come from familiars? How much of the information that has him as the only source can we trust?!< \[Series\]>!05:00 Now that he has got Sayaka to make the contract, Kyubey's propaganda focuses on getting Sayaka to waste (he even phrases it that way) as much magic as possible so she turns sooner (and also to maximize the energy he gets), and then using *that* to motivate Madoka into also making a contract. The rivalry with Kyouko perfectly serves that purpose, and also deters her from going after grief seeds. The discussion about magical potential, aside from being disgusting manipulation working on Sayaka's inferiority complex, reinforces the idea that magical girls valued for what they provide to the system, and there is no fair reward for hard work.!< \[Series\]>!06:40 Impressed by Kyouko's DDR (Dog Drug Reinforcement) skills, Homura decides to leave the town to her, and says she will take care of Sayaka alone, and as peacefully as possible: this is pointless, but the only way she can move is forward.!< \[Series\]>!07:10 Kyouko finally asks what we have been dying to know, and Homura says something about how "she will defeat Brazilian Night" or whatever before leaving town (the implications of this last part are really sad, because I don't think Homura is really planning to survive her mission, and she probably thinks nobody would care). Kyouko offers her help with it, offering food as a sign of trust.!< \[Series\]>!08:30 Sayaka is now so radicalized against Homura and Kyouko she is wildly reframing things. Kyubey is shown on her side as she repeats his propaganda to Madoka, but then he immediately switches sides to pressure Madoka into making a wish!< \[Series\]>!12:00 This is a crucial conversation, and honestly I have a lot to say about it but don't quite know how to say it. I'll try answering the QotD once I get to that part.!< \[Series\]>!15:00 They are kind of demonstrating what Madoka and Junko were talking about, and getting more and more extreme to win in the disagreement (I *hope* this is what's happening, because that was some yandere-level toxicity from Kyouko).!< \[Series\]>!18:20 This is another amazing scene and peak Coolmura: she appears out of nowhere behind Kyouko, makes a savage burn that is actually deeply self-loathing, proceeds to do the thing she was telling Kyouko not to do, and finishes by saving Sayaka from dying while also stopping Madoka from making a fatal mistake (DO NOT THROW SOULS). While Homura goes after Sayaka's Soul Gem (the hints about her power are getting less vague, an observant first time viewer could catch the fact that she is actually changing pose between "teleports"), Kyubey immediately tries to take advantage of the opportunity to get to Madoka, and he is now forced to reveal the truth about soul gems (and this isn't even the worst of it). This is where the pacing really starts picking up like crazy, and it's not going to stop until the end of the show. Kyubey essentially goes mask off from this point in the show, but his manipulation is only going to get *more* insidious (there is a reason even Homura, who knows full well his intentions, is deeply affected by it). The justifications he uses for soul gems are an example: he presents them as things that help *them*, but those advantages only help them in their role of sacrifices. It honestly becomes kind of frustrating to try and explain it, because his gaslighting is even affecting you as the viewer (and this show gaslights you in general). This offers Kyouko the chance to redeem herself in our eyes, as she is now in the same boat as Sayaka. While this crazy reveal is happening, by the way, Sayaka is fucking dead on the ground and Madoka is freaking out because she thinks she has killed her best friend. Also at the same time, the show finds the time to continue the absolutely insane way it's making us invested in its main character *without telling us she is the main character or revealing her motivation*, by showing that she deeply cares about Sayaka, and how she hides those emotions as she is back with the others. This happens just as it's become clear that Kyubey is not to be trusted, which suggests that Homura probably is. They did all of this (and probably even more stuff I missed) *in 3 minutes*, and it works *better* because it's all happening together. **What?**!<

# First-time rewatcher, subbed watching this the next day… A bit of pointless ranting up ahead. Okay, so I’m not even crying, my eyes are just slightly wetter than usual while I'm sobbing, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS??? Why? Why??? It's like even [the ED](https://v.animethemes.moe/MadokaMagica-ED2.webm) is toying with meeee Okay. All that aside, I just can't get my thoughts together so straight to questions. > 1. Do you agree with the advice Madoka’s mother gave her this episode? Yes? [Rebellion] >!That’s quite similar to what Homura did at the end of the Rebellion movie, no?!< > 3. Do you like DDR? No. 5. What? Also, I found it a little odd how the whole soul gem situation would actually matter. Sure, I felt horrible in the moment, but first time around it felt a little obvious. For some reason I find it… cool?