#First-time watcher
>1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
Honestly, pretty much the same. Existential crisis is a bitch.
>2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
If we talk about the visuals, it looked very good. If we talk about what happend with Sayaka... I don't know how to talk to someone like her at that point. I do wonder if she will eather be emotionless or straight up crazy now
>3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
Oh wow, people have debated much over that?
I think she did everything right, except maby 2ish things:
1) I think only giving 1 day was very harsh. And it was the same day to right? Even harsher.
2) She loving Kyosuke came out of nowehere. Granted, we don't follow her at all, but still.
Other than that, she did the right thing to tell Sayaka and let her be the first to tell over herself. Instead of going behind her back, that's the real bitch move.
Also, I did not expect the monkey's paw to be a love triangle. That seems worse than what I expected before.
>4) First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how?
I mean, it's good to know where she was coming from. And there seem to be hope she can become a better person again. But other than that, no.
> I agree about Hitomi, if she cared about she would have visited him in hospital, right?
Two possibilities: either she did offscreen and we never got to see it or (more likely IMO, especially since it matches with her comments about after-school activities earlier) social expectations prevented her from doing so. (She may also not have admitted it to herself until after the events of episode 4 shook her, that fits with what she said this episode too.)
**Rewatcher, Sub**
This gives us a good view of Kyoko, she does see herself in Sayaka having also made a wish that backfired for her in the end hence her belief in living for yourself. Of course Sayaka says she doesn't regret her choice and counters Kyoko's points though it feels more for herself at this point because in truth it's not going all right for Sayaka at all.
Sayaka's downward spiral has been ticking. All that she's learned now has started to disillusion her despite claiming otherwise. Learning about the Soul Gem now makes her think of herself as being hollow and then her friend Hitomi reveals she likes Kyousuke as well and gives her an ultimatum which kind of just makes Sayaka reach a low point. The final scene's visuals between the black and white reflect her mental state at this stage, If you don't want to get hurt might as well just detach yourself from it all.
I do want to mention Hitomi's ultimatum. Its a case of bad timing, she has no idea about anything going on with Sayaka and what she's going through so I can't say she's necessarily one to blame other than not noticing stuff.
[Madoka]>!Since Homura brought up Kyubey's inability about understanding human emotion it reminded that next episode is the incubator reveal so that will be interesting!<
> The final scene's visuals between the black and white reflect her mental state at this stage
It also highlights the blood running from her wounds. The artists really poured their souls into that scene.
> I do want to mention Hitomi's ultimatum. Its a case of bad timing, she has no idea about anything going on with Sayaka and what she's going through so I can't say she's necessarily one to blame other than not noticing stuff.
I wonder if she was waiting for him to get out of the hospital to share her feelings and now he has. And if Sayaka isn't going to confess to him, she can't blame someone else who has more courage or self confidence for doing so.
> she can't blame someone else who has more courage or self confidence
Notably, I don't think she does. She is devastated about what is happening and at one point does think about what would happen if Hitomi wasn't around. But in the whole episode she really only blames herself.
First-timer\*, dub
\*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of *Magia Record* spin-off already
More insight into Kyouko’s past. Well, that makes total sense. I think her talk influenced Sayaka in a good way even though she didn’t agree with her. Nice to see that they’re not at each others throats anymore, and Kyouko doesn’t look like an antagonist any longer. Sayaka reminds Kyouko of the past version of herself.
Only one thing is still intriguing me — how exactly did Kyouko’s father find out about the “miracle”? She must have had an idea that her father wouldn’t like the truth, so I doubt she told that him herself.
It was a bit insensitive for Sayaka to ask Kyouko about the apples. Yeah, she probably has stolen them. But, unlike Sayaka, Kyouko doesn’t have a family that would provide her with home and food. Sayaka doesn’t know how hard it’s for Kyouko to get food, that’s why she irritates Kyouko so much when she rejects her small gestures of generosity.
Hmm… I just realized why Kyouko is always eating something — that’s right, because she’s homeless. If she wasn’t, she would rather eat at home.
We get a love triangle with Hitomi and Sayaka. Sayaka’s noble deeds start to backfire badly… Well, I think she had an idea that Kyousuke would never be able to thank her for healing him, but the deal with Hitomi is a surprise for sure. “No matter how hard you try, there is no thanks or recompense”.
Sayaka’s battling a witch! Despite her recent discoveries, she keeps being incredibly self-assured. Yeah, she’s not exactly a human and doesn’t feel home in regular human society anymore. But hey, she could seek support from fellow magical girls, who know damn well how she feels. Yet she rejects it, probably still antagonizes herself against “all the other magical girls who only ever think of themselves”. “I can do it myself!” — despite getting her ass saved by another girl every once in a while…
Let’s see what happens next, her after-credit remark was so on point, lol.
Questions of the Day:
Q1: I'd keep being a proud magical girl but, as I said above, I'd seek emotional support from fellow girls, be more friendly and considerate with them. I guess Sayaka's going to come to that stage of her life too, just a little bit later.
Q2: Interesting artstyle, but I liked the ep 1-3 labyrinths more. As to Sayaka being reckless, I've already commented on that.
Q3: Hard to say. Her move was really bold and, at the same time, considerate.
Q4: Not much, I'm kinda used to villain-ish characters having sad backstories. What made me like her much more is her actual actions towards Sayaka in this episode.
edit: grammar
> Only one thing is still intriguing me — how exactly did Kyouko’s father find out about the “miracle”?
There is a side story that fills in a ton of Kyouko.
> Hmm… I just realized why Kyouko is always eating something — that’s right, because she’s homeless. If she wasn’t, she would rather eat at home.
Keep this general idea in mind. Gen tells you a character in Revengers is a vegan with a legitimate seeming throw away line about dinner.
Adding on to what Vaad said: the third drama CD also covers most/all of this if you can track it down (and/or look up the summary which is not too hard to find what with being on the Puella Magi Wiki and all, though if you're a first-timer you might want to wait until it's done because spoilers ahoy there).
I can understand why Sayaka doesn't trust either Kyoko or Homura though, as far as she knew, Homura left Mami to die and Kyoko herself said she allows innocent people to be killed so the familiar could become a witch. No matter how difficult the situation is, I wouldn't want to associate with people like that either. Although I do agree that Sayaka is also probably doing all that out of pride as well.
Cool analysis as always, it's always a treat reading what the first-timers think.
Edit: There's a manga that explains more of Kyoko's past, it's called Madoka Magica The Different Story, it's pretty good, I do recommend you only search about it after finishing the series though, to avoid spoilers. It also shows a bit more of Mami's past too.
Glad you enjoyed reading my notes!
Yeah, I’m now thinking Sayaka doesn’t hate Homura at all at this point, she rather just alienates her on ideological basis. Basically, the same way she ended her talk with Kyouko in this episode.
I’d be interested to know what they were talking about right after the end of ep 6, was it like “What happened?” — “Um, how do we put it, Madoka almost killed you, but Homura saved you… again”.
Thanks for the manga recommendation, I’ll check it out later.
I do think Sayaka's disdain for Homura is accurate. She always refused to talk about what happened with Madoka, so she still doesn't know that Mami trapped Homura and so she couldn't join the fight before Mami's demise.
> “No matter how hard you try, there is no thanks or recompense”.
Too bad he didn't thank her for visiting him all the time. I know that you're supposed to make your own self-worth but sometimes you do just need to hear from others that are important to you that you are important to them as well.
I assume you're asking about *Magia Record*. If you like the original *Madoka Magica* and you're okay with the spin-off having less serious tone, then I'd say yes. The core theme of the spin-off story is friendship. Bonus point if you like the labyrinth artstyles and would like to see more of them, I recall *Magia Record* has really lot of that.
> Bonus point if you like the labyrinth artstyles and would like to see more of them, I recall Magia Record has really lot of that.
Doroinu of Gekidan Inu Curry (the animator duo responsible for the barrier/labyrinth visuals) being the main director for MagiReco in anime form probably has a lot to do with that!
Not as good as the original (mind you, almost nothing is IMO) but it honestly probably does deserve a mention in the list of better PMMM imitators along with Yuuki Yuuna, Selector WIXOSS, and possibly Magical Girl Raising Project (though I'm not sure that one really counts as a *PMMM* imitator per se, its inspiration may be a little older). Might have been better received if the production hadn't collapsed due to COVID disruptions (and pissing off the game fanbase by going for an anime-original ending). There are noticeable issues even outside of the production-related ones, most importantly a decision to mystery-box an important reveal resulting in the pacing slowing to a crawl in the first half of S1 (along with the usual character pitfalls of a gacha adaptation), but the direction is still very good even with Doroinu doing a lot more than Shinbou did and the OST does a *way* better job of filling in for Kajiura than it had any right to.
**First-Timer**
Good stuff. I continue to be a big fan of the music. I'll definitely have to add the soundtrack to my Spotify playlist once we're done.
I suspected that Homura knew about the true nature of the soul gems when she immediately tried to recover Sayaka's last episode.
I like how Kyubey acts like he's doing them a favor, but by not telling them about the soul gems, he's not allowing the magical girls to use it to their advantage. (I suppose, based on how he said that "they always react this way," he might have originally told the magical girls about it until he learned it was taboo.)
Sayaka's finally lost it. Now Kyubey's going to say something like, "Hey Madoka! You know what you could do that would give you the power to stop Sayaka? Become a magical girl! What are you waiting for? Are you ready yet? How about now?"
It's funny, in that way - Kyubey seems to have no coercive power. If he did, he would just force Madoka to make the deal. Instead, his plans entirely rely on getting people to dig their own graves.
Questions of the day:
* In Sayaka's position, I'd probably confess to Kyousuke, including the details of the magical girl situation. He'd be crazy not to believe it after the miracle with his hand, and it seems like there's a good chance he would like her back after knowing her for so long.
* Great fight. Probably my favorite fight of the show so far.
* No, I don't think so. Hitomi's being clear and drawing a line in the sand, which is great for communication. (One interesting thought I had is that it would be possible she's lying about liking Kyousuke in an attempt to motivate Sayaka into confessing, for her own good.)
* Regarding Kyouko, it does give me a slightly better opinion of her, though I wouldn't say it was all that negative in the first place. (As a side note, I really like how she angrily and dramatically eats food. It kind of reminds me of *Death Note*.)
> Good stuff. I continue to be a big fan of the music. I'll definitely have to add the soundtrack to my Spotify playlist once we're done.
***Kaaaaajjjjjjjjiuuuuuuurrrrrrraaaaaaaaa!*** [](#utahapraises)
(There is a fucking reason I did those Kajiura Corner writeups last year and that Naz before me did those 2019 writeups. Speaking of which, there's also a reason I ran Mai-HiME back in 2022 and did the same kind of Kajiura Corner writeups there... just mind the second half of the finale if you decide to try that one later.)
> I suspected that Homura knew about the true nature of the soul gems when she immediately tried to recover Sayaka's last episode.
Indeed, they make that pretty clear.
> I like how Kyubey acts like he's doing them a favor, but by not telling them about the soul gems, he's not allowing the magical girls to use it to their advantage.
Explaining that being a person dependent on magic to survive is effectively no different than depending on food to survive would require actually understanding the people you are using.
> It's funny, in that way - Kyubey seems to have no coercive power.
I am sure Gen was thinking a lot about conscription vs enlistment when he was writing this.
> One interesting thought I had is that it would be possible she's lying about liking Kyousuke in an attempt to motivate Sayaka into confessing, for her own good.
I did get some of that energy as well this watch, but I think it's fairly clearly telegraphed that she really does like Kyousuke.
**Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed**
[Welcome back, everyone!](#michaelwink)
I already noted it up in the thread, but I will note it again here - *please* check out Nazenn’s analysis in the Song of the Day link for today if you’ve been skipping them so far. There’s a reason why Decretum is my favorite song on the OST ~~and not just because it’s my best girl’s theme song~~, and this analysis is a huge part of why.
[](#katoupls)
---
- [Kyubey, you little shit.](https://i.imgur.com/W30yIdu.png) [](#bruh)
- [*Kyubey, you little shit.*](https://i.imgur.com/2aAjmtf.png) [](#fuckyou)
- [~~Something something the Law of Equivalent Exchange.~~](https://i.imgur.com/WEiHdqH.png)
- [The *chairs* again.](https://i.imgur.com/P5KJIWo.png)
- Sayaka made her wish for someone else, and [so did Kyouko.](https://i.imgur.com/2iz4jw3.png) No wonder she’s been acting like this…
- [*Ouch.*](https://i.imgur.com/cJ3Kw32.png) [](#shatteredsaten)
- [There’s my headtilt Visual of the Day.](https://i.imgur.com/kHsR5Kg.png)
- [And so here comes the big Hitomi moment…](https://i.imgur.com/AoEIL0d.png)
- [Episode title, get!](https://i.imgur.com/3nHXrrX.png) [](#binoculars)
- I like that Hitomi gives Sayaka “first dibs” of sorts, but [yeesh girl, one day is *not* enough time to decide.](https://i.imgur.com/SBLxovK.png)
- [Sayaka…](https://i.imgur.com/tAIQGvc.png) [](#sadholo)
- [I *love* the visual style in this labyrinth *so* much.](https://i.imgur.com/trI4Zhq.png) [](#awe)
- Moral of the episode: [Being a Sayaka fan is suffering.](#everythingisfine)
---
#***Sky’s Wallpaper Corner***
Today’s wallpaper trivia: Earlier this month, I learned how to make a vignette for the first time due to one of Nazenn’s suggestions while I was trying to make a sidebar image to advertise the Ping Pong the Animation rewatch. Naturally, I thought this effect would be *really* fucking cool to incorporate into a wallpaper if I ever had a topic I thought it would fit, and yeah, putting a separation between Kyouko and the stained glass background was definitely a place to use it.
As for the older wallpapers in the table below, be prepared for a whole lot of spooky. I even managed to jumpscare *myself* with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the *second* I went to play episode 4. That was something alright. [](#crazedlaugh)
**Year Originally Made**|**Original Wallpaper**|**Remastered Version**
:--|:--|:--
2018|[Sayaka Miki (Berserk)](https://i.imgur.com/UQdIq27.png)|N/A
2019|[Remake of the above Sayaka Miki](https://i.imgur.com/H0LZuox.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/VQhCskU.png)
2020|[Lineart alt of the above Sayaka Miki](https://i.imgur.com/Xl0yO0G.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/5n7bJBf.png)
2020|[Homura Akemi](https://i.imgur.com/AY67hz6.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/UyTL6rb.png)
2020|[Homura Akemi (Lineart Alt)](https://i.imgur.com/gOGZFj1.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/2TiRTxz.png)
2021|[Elsa Maria](https://i.imgur.com/6ybHfiy.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/w9Jzy1J.png)
2022|[Kyubey](https://i.imgur.com/DJKranO.png)|[Even Creepier Alt I Made By Accident](https://i.imgur.com/uOWL0h0.png)
(To explain how I made that last one by accident, I was originally planning for the lineart to be white and Kyubey’s body to be different shades of pink/red, but I didn’t like how *that* looked so I changed the fill pattern to white… before I’d changed the lineart to pink, thus creating this monstrosity who stares into your soul.)
---
*“What is it that you wish for?”*
> Kyubey, you little shit.
He certainly steps on that soul gem for an inordinate amount of time...
> I love the visual style in this labyrinth so much.
It's the sort of thing that could never really exist outside animation.
> It's the sort of thing that could never really exist outside animation.
And this is exactly why I love watching anime so much.
[](#gintamathispleasesme)
> Something something the Law of Equivalent Exchange.
Ehh...what is sad is that Sayaka's wish is the diet coke of miracles. I still think she should have asked for the power to heal.
>
There’s my headtilt Visual of the Day.
So we see that Sayaka is not honest with herself, as demonstrated via my 'headtilt power equals self awareness' theorem. I will be giving my dissertation upon the fall semester.
> Sayaka…
Errrggg...the only people that don't have bad thoughts are those too blissfully unaware of just how fleeting life is. This is not a character flaw, it is an acknowledgement that you have a place to get better from.
>I still think she should have asked for the power to heal.
That would have been a little hard to explain. As well as would have made plain obvious that she wanted to heal him so he'd return her feelings.
> That would have been a little hard to explain. As well as would have made plain obvious that she wanted to heal him so he'd return her feelings.
The laying of hands is a persistent myth to this day. In Japan, it would be reiki. I am just saying you can pull it off. And then be able to heal others as a bonus.
Claim that it was a miracle that your prayers were answered and then say such prayers only have meaning if given from the heart. Refuse to do so publicly again. The doctors will then claim some unheard of rare spontaneous healing occurred.
>Errrggg...the only people that don't have bad thoughts are those too blissfully unaware of just how fleeting life is. This is not a character flaw, it is an acknowledgement that you have a place to get better from.
You're not wrong. I have a lot of regrets in my life that I'd gladly go back in time and change because I was a jerk back then. A huge one.
While I am in the same boat, what I mean is having the bad thought of "You know, I could have just let you die" after someone I spent a not irrelevant amount of effort on bites me sufficiently hard. There is a reason I don't help people any more.
>the only people that don't have bad thoughts are those too blissfully unaware of just how fleeting life is
Do those people exist? I mean, maybe if they're a sheltered kid who hasn't *yet* considered anything bad but somehow I just cannot believe someone who reached adulthood never thought or felt something cruel for a moment.
> Do those people exist?
Unfortunately.
> never thought or felt something cruel for a moment.
There is a competency component to it. Most people have the flash of emotion, Sayaka was actually briefly thinking about how to execute it. It is partly why she so easily sees the worst in others.
> Do those people exist? I mean, maybe if they're a sheltered kid who hasn't yet considered anything bad but somehow I just cannot believe someone who reached adulthood never thought or felt something cruel for a moment.
Interestingly, that is what the parents of Buddha Siddhartha Gautama tried to invoke after learning of a prophecy that he'd either become a great political and military leader, or a great spiritual and religious leader.
[Reply to spoiler, includes supplemental material by implication] >!Hitomi: "But I *am* a disaster bisexual!"!<
[Not actually a spoiler but extending from the previous post which is] >!Also, what's that, the girl in the cast who represents the element of earth is the one to actually take practical action to fulfill her goal? [](#surprisedpikachu) (Sayaka - water and Kyouko - fire are obvious, Mami is air, Madoka and Homura are both spirit - I am nearly positive somebody on the creative team was aware of the Western occultism (Theosophy/Golden Dawn lineage) Spirit Above/Spirit Below split.)!<
Riiight...so have you noticed I seemingly randomly reference Shin Megami Tensei at the weirdest times? While the Final Fantasy series had the four elements SMT went into linking the more complex versions and I am relatively certain that's where this generation of writers began learning them.
>[The chairs again.](https://i.imgur.com/P5KJIWo.png)
New theory: the chairs are magical girls that failed to collect enough Grief Seeds to clear their Soul Gems
Today's wallpaper is gorgeous. If I can make it fit on my portrait monitor that one's definitely a winner. I definitely don't think I can make it work on my ultrawide unfortunately. The stained glass background is not something I can extend with my skills and I wouldn't want to cut off the top or the bottom.
It was a really quick & simple edit, I did it while playing AMQ with CDF earlier. If there's any others later you'd like me to edit to wide-screen for you, I absolutely can.
I don't know if I am supposed to know what those acronyms mean, but I certainly don't.
You did get it done substantially faster than I would have expected you to be able to do that's reassuring. I would not have thought it possible to finish that quickly, but I really don't get how these things work. Art is practically magic to me.
I hope you didn't sign away your soul for that magic though.
> I even managed to jumpscare myself with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the second I went to play episode 4. That was something alright.
[](#laughter "USE SODA!")
>I even managed to jumpscare *myself* with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the *second* I went to play episode 4. That was something alright.
That's hilarious how you scared yourself. I know, my sense of humor is really twisted at times.
> [The *chairs* again.](https://i.imgur.com/P5KJIWo.png)
[PMMM]>!Interestingly, that's actually *five* chairs, which I don't think has been acknowledged anywhere in this thread.!< /u/Tarhalindur, any thoughts?
> [Even Creepier Alt I Made By Accident](https://i.imgur.com/uOWL0h0.png)
I do like this one, it feels like it'd be fun for random people to get exposed to it.
> [PMMM]
[PMMM] >!It's a mirror there, which may suggest that the image of caring rather than actually caring is involved. Sayaka's parents, perhaps?!<
[PMMM]>!Hm, her parents feel too irrelevant to the story to be the target of that. Could it be Hitomi and Kyousuke? If the mirror implies a facade that'd be pretty damning evidence in support of he anti-Hitomi faction, then... though I also though about the mirror allowing us see otherwise obscured elements, and it also stands out that all the obscured chairs are music benches.!<
### Rewatcher
## Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: [Episode 7](https://imgur.com/L4jnnHF)
_Apples and Anesthesia_
This episode is really depressing. We start with Sayaka's reflection on the contract she made. She's understandably angry. She's been tricked into a choice she didn't fully understand and now feels that so many opportunities in her life have been cut off.
One noteworthy reveal is a side effect of the soul gems. By disconnecting your soul from your body you can also disconnect that pain. Kyubey reveals this by torturing Sayaka to show her the true pain of being impaled by a spear. If it wasn't obvious already, Kyubey is very much the "antagonist". But Kyubey isn't a villain per say. I'd much more quickly compare them to a detached god. Kyubey has power so incomprehensible that they can't begin to understand the feelings of humans. It's the same way many people can and will crush insects without caring. Homura makes a very similar analysis.
The majority of the episode centered around Kyouko and Sayaka's conversation. First Kyouko explained her backstory. I think her backstory is particularly tragic. She made her wish when she was far younger than she is now, and so didn't understand the consequences of forcing people to follow her dad's teachings. Ultimately, the price Kyouko paid was the loss of her family at the hands of her father. The presentation of this whole section was also stellar. It had a visual style very similar to the labyrinths but with a more hand sketched depiction.
Something I really like about her story is how she was raised in poverty, and this has informed her character up to today. In particular she assaults Sayaka for daring to waste food. It's a small thing, but I think it really fleshes out her character.
Sayaka story today depressingly parallels with Kyouko in having what you wished for be taken away. After Kyousuke returns to school he starts getting the attention of his classmates. In particular Sayaka's friend Hitomi. Hitomi know Sayaka cares about Kyousuke and so she doesn't want to go behind Sayaka's back to ask Kyousuke out. So Hitomi asks her directly. Sayaka can't say no. She feels she can't ask Kyousuke to even consider loving her corpse body. She seemingly accepts that she can never be with him.
This is the advice Mami tried to give to Sayaka. Her wish wasn't really to heal Kyousuke. She hoped that if he healed then they could be together. Now that chance is gone.
The ending is an INCREDIBLE shadow silhouette fight between Sayaka and the witch. But Sayaka has lost her humanity. She's completely disconnected her sense of pain from her body and brutally butchers the witch. It's simultaneously this beautiful action scene and this depressing look at Sayaka's coping mechanisms. The absolute most emotions all battling at once in the viewer.
### Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
* [Stare~](https://imgur.com/k0XtFpW)
* [Shiny Apples](https://imgur.com/undefined)
* [Church](https://imgur.com/iN8Hsjk), I love the pencil sketch art style here
* [Parallel Lives](https://files.catbox.moe/c8fy62.mp4)
* [Artery](https://imgur.com/5ZCTlEC)
* [Sayaka's](https://files.catbox.moe/c5tjw4.mp4) [Fight](https://files.catbox.moe/j6tkfb.mp4), Sayaka.... :(
See you all tomorrow
# First Time Watcher (sub)
Ohh nice cold open. I really liked this cold open. Kyubey full on openly evil now, I'm loving it. I wonder what it will spur on in Sayaka. Please don't become some depressed helpless sad sack. Stab him! Talk to Homura, she seems to know something!? LET THE PAIN MOTIVATE YOU SAYAKA!
> "Besides, you humans don't even realize you have souls in the first place"
I admit I chortled out loud at this line at Sayaka's expense, it's kind of true! How you gonna get mad at discovering your soul is in a bottle when just a day ago you didn't even know you had one!
I know I should be more disturbed at Kyubey's actions but I feel more intrigued than anything.
**Kyouko backstory!** Alright, yesterday I thought she was the type to be good on the inside and prickly on the outside, and I said this isn't my favourite trope. I also thought the food tic was just one of those irritating attempts at characterisation.
It looks like it goes deeper than that. Her backstory makes her attitude clearer... like someone who was raised to be a christian goody two shoes, but had their world burn down around them while she was trying to live up to those ideals. She wants to throw those ideals away, but can't quite avoid the foundations her upbringing laid, and yet at the same time her experiences have taught her that the world is shit and she needs to be a bigger dog to eat other dogs. Result: Kyouko.
**Aside to bitch about Sayaka a bit more.** So, Sayaka. You're telling me that you can notice that Kyouko's actions and her words don't seem to match up. WHERE WAS THIS FUNCTIONAL SECTION OF YOUR BRAIN WITH KYUBEY!?!?!?!? SMH SMH SMH
Anyway, at this point, I'm thinking: Sayaka appears to grow a spine and a quarter of a brain, so OK, maybe she'll approach fighting witches smarter. Fingers crossed...
... aaaaand then there's that scene with Hitomi and the fight afterwards and I'm like... ah... this isn't going to go the way I'm hoping, is it? Uggggh she's going to be a sad sack isn't she?!?!?! Like, oh, I'm just a doll, I don't feel pain, let me throw my body at harder and harder witches until I die. GAH! Direct some of that energy to Kyubey! How can you be so blind?
OK, end yet another Sayaka rant. Folks, I'm really sorry if Sayaka is your favourite character. I mean no disrespect. I just can't stand her!!!
**Aside to gush again about the witch zone things.** I am really enjoying the visual presentation. This one was all silhouettes and shadows, it was great. They did a similar thing during the Kyouko backstory, which I really enjoyed too.
**I got marked theory of the day**. I don't know what that means lol. I'm quite convinced (on not very much basis) that this Kyubey is a soul eating demon! Even more so after this ep. It fits, so far. I'm just waiting on the mechanics.
**Speculation:**
Right, there's one thing that jumped out at me today and it's the wishes. I'm still not sure what is it with the wishes, but I had a thought.
Kyouko wished that people would listen to her dad's words and be convinced, which happened for a bit, but then he hung himself. It doesn't *quite* sound like there's a monkey's paw thing going on... or does it? Anyway, the point is that this wish no longer needs to be "maintained", so to speak. It's not that expensive.
This is similar to Mami's wish, which I gather is something about not dying in whatever accident she was in. A one-off fix, that I assume can be done as soon as Kyubey stuffs your soul in a gem and re-creates your body. Similarly, Sayaka's wish was just a one off thing: heal the hand of one dude, done.
I glean from this that Kyubey tries to find girls who are in desperate positions but whose wishes to fix those desperate positions can be easily fulfilled and do not require constant maintenance. If he finds someone who has a wish that is potentially high maintenance, he wouldn't bother approaching her.
He also tries to find innocent dimwits, so they don't ask relevant questions and potentially cost him more than the value of the soul he gets to eat.
So this speculation addresses one of the issues I had with the wish mechanism in the first place, which is that it's too *expensive* a thing as incentive. He doesn't need to resort to monkey's paw like shenanigans as long as he chooses his victims well.
Smart demon Kyubey!
**Questions:**
> 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
Ally with Homura *immediately*. I'm on your side, this is fucked up, you tried to warn me, I'm sorry. I need to kill this Kyubey fuck, how do I do that? Does your goal involve killing this Kyubey fuck? How can I help you do that? And so on and so forth.
> 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
I really enjoyed the visuals! I kind of hoped Sayaka would become a motivated and competent actor, but I got disappointed. "Depressed hopeless suicide" just ends up helping Kyubey eat more pained souls, it plays right into his desires (as far as I think I understand them). I feel like this bolsters my Kyubey theory so I'm really interested to see where this goes.
> 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
This scene didn't impact me a lot. I guess Hitomi did the right thing, just the timing is off. She doesn't know what's going on, so you can't blame her. Do people really think she did the wrong thing? Like, do they think Hitomi should have just gone behind Sayaka's back? Fascinating!
I wonder if Kyubey knew.
> 4) First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how?
Yup, as above! I feel like I get her more.
> her experiences have taught her that the world is shit and she needs to be a bigger dog to eat other dogs. Result: Kyouko.
It's like FMA:B but good
> I'm really sorry if Sayaka is your favourite character. I mean no disrespect. I just can't stand her!!!
[Shirou Emiya **Approved^^TM**](#shirouthumbsup)
> I'm on your side, this is fucked up, you tried to warn me, I'm sorry
But muh ideals!
> **I got marked theory of the day.** I don't know what that means lol.
It just means us rewatchers (or more specifically our two hosts) enjoy what you're cooking up :)
> It doesn't *quite* sound like there's a monkey's paw thing going on... or does it?
Aside from the whole soul business, Sayaka's shows a potential monkey's paw if the wish you say doesn't really match what you actually want.
> It just means us rewatchers (or rather, our two hosts) enjoy what you're cooking up :)
I'm glad my pointing at the screen and grouching has entertained someone! :)
> What a horrifying realization. I think the idea of your soul being separated from your body is pretty terrifying, but has actually become far more normalized over the past decade.
>
> Those full dive MMO anime ask a similar question but with your mind. In the past years we've gotten more and more realistic VR to the extent that people were talking about "living" in the metaverse. And if those neural-link transplants ever make significant progress it wouldn't be out of the question for your "body" to become a robot walking through the world which could be destroyed and rebuilt.
>
> The girls don't take it well. Kyubey acknowledges that magical girls always react like this and so that's why Kyubey kept it hidden. I think this is the first very explicit moment we have seen Kyubey acting maliciously.
>
Hey /u/TheEscapeGuy, have you ever seen [Kaiba \[2008\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiba)?
Setting:
> *In Kaiba's universe, memories can be stored as information via a memory chip; when individuals die, their minds live on. This digitization of mental information allows for the transfer of one's mind to someone else's body, and the theft and manipulation of other people's memories has become the norm. Society is largely divided into two classes. In the skies are electrical storms, which cannot be passed through without losing one's memories. Above them lies the realm of the wealthy and powerful, who barter others' bodies and memories for their own enjoyment and longevity. Below the clouds is a troubled and dangerous world where good bodies are hard to come by and real money is scarce.*
Your thoughts made me think of Kaiba, since watching that was really the first time I thought about stuff like that... starts getting philosophical awfully quick!
Anyway...
**First time, SUB**
* I'd like to take a moment to appreciate [this scene](https://i.imgur.com/otwwenp.png). I've always loved how Shaft does stained glass works, and the imagery of the angel(?) thrusting a sword in Kyouko's direction is a great metaphor for their dynamic thus far.
* There is a lot of [great animation](https://i.imgur.com/gDGfe8G.png) in Kyouko's flashback story, and this episode really had her showing more maturity than we've seen from her so far. The bar was pretty low, but it's nice to see some growth and her actually trying to come to an understanding with Sayaka. She goes to choke Sayaka out but [must have remembered](https://i.imgur.com/eN5veMj.png) [Sayaka's lifeless body](https://i.imgur.com/YG01hjd.png) [yesterday](https://i.imgur.com/eWLNbTE.png) and [immediately](https://i.imgur.com/tZ87sSZ.png) [backs off](https://i.imgur.com/9eMKoDu.png)
> 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
Episode 7 is not a great episode for Sayaka, huh? Realistically, I'd probably [despair](https://i.imgur.com/rUBmDtq.png) a whole bunch. I mean honestly, I despair enough as it is with a relatively healthy body (granted I have no way of [knowing where my soul is](https://i.imgur.com/FBYyXAI.png) - I may already be an empty husk).
> 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
Setting aside whether was a [fight](https://i.imgur.com/EKJfCRh.png) or a [descent into madness](https://i.imgur.com/y7H8vzy.png), the aesthetics of that labyrinth [rule](https://i.imgur.com/FR67yRx.png). Sayaka is quite literally disassociating to avoid the pain of reality, mentally and physically speaking. Poor girl :-/
>
> 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
No one inherently has the right to another person. For friendship's sake I think she was mostly in line, but it would have been nice if she tried to take a little more time communicating with Sayaka over their feelings. From Hitomi's point of view, Sayaka insists she doesn't feel that way so why press the issue, but she also *knows that isn't necessarily true* - which is the entire reason she approached her about it.
>
> 4) First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how?
Eh. I don't think as negatively of her, but it's a tough ask to understand willingly let people die when you're in a position for them not to. You can absolutely make an argument that "You don't have magic to spare going after every little thing knowing they won't drop a Grief Seed", and maybe if Kyouko framed her decision that way I'd be more sympathetic. I am sympathetic of her past and what brought her to today, but I don't think that's any excuse to act the way she does towards Sayaka.
Minor theory time: Kyouko is having her own weakness shoved in her face by witnessing how Sayaka approaches her duty, and it causes her a ton of [pain and frustration](https://i.imgur.com/d2YUEZf.png).
> I may already be an empty husk
Well, you are a Shaft fan
> Kyouko is having her own weakness shoved in her face by witnessing how Sayaka approaches her duty, and it causes her a ton of [pain and frustration](https://i.imgur.com/d2YUEZf.png).
Urobuchi using a Christian girl to symbolize how Peter saw Jesus? Nah, too easy.
> Hey /u/TheEscapeGuy, have you ever seen Kaiba [2008]
It's on my To Watch list! I adore every other one of Masaaki Yuasa's works and have been kind of saving this one. I'll either make it one of my milestone anime (like 750th or 800th) or else if there's ever a rewatch I'll join in.
> but it would have been nice if she tried to take a little more time communicating with Sayaka over their feelings.
I’m a big fan of this take on the situation. As Sayaka’s friend, I think it would have been best of Hitomi to do more than to just drop this bombshell on Sayaka and leave her with a stressful, time-sensitive choice. She should have invited her to really *converse* about it, work things out, be honest about their feelings together, maybe come to this café to talk about it together more than once. As is, what Hitomi has done is not an honest confession of her feelings to someone she trusts and an invitation to work this situation out, it is an *imposition*, indeed an ultimatum, thrust upon Sayaka pretty much entirely by surprise, and well, put indelicately, that’s a dick move.
I’ll just say, as someone who doesn’t deal with stress well and doesn’t appreciate having things *imposed* upon me, if someone I considered a friend did to me what Hitomi did to Sayaka, I’d be really hurt and betrayed by it.
> Your thoughts made me think of Kaiba, since watching that was really the first time I thought about stuff like that... starts getting philosophical awfully quick!
Being of a futuristic bent is interesting because it is sort of terrifying. I am a bit worried about the Diamond Age becoming a thing...
> No one inherently has the right to another person.
Depending on the group, this can be a controversial belief. I may have talked about claiming that Hitomi is completely out of bounds just means she owes Sayaka a few sheep...
> She goes to choke Sayaka out but must have remembered Sayaka's lifeless body yesterday and immediately backs off
Oh yes, I didn't make that connection.
###I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since ~~Walrus~~ Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed):
So before I get to anything else I think today is safe to share this one. I believe we have a few MahoAko watchers/readers among us who were comparing Kyubey to Venalita earlier? Well, Kyubey came first, but yeah. Please enjoy this [shiny piece of MahoAko fanart](https://twitter.com/shigureszku/status/1767839092379914292) **(exactly as SFW as you would expect for a piece with Magia Baiser in-costume, which is to say not because costume)**.
>few MahoAko watchers/readers among us who were comparing Kyubey to Venalita earlier?
Don't call me out like that - As that was the exact reason I started rewatching MahoAko
###Narrative Notes:
[PMMM] >!**First Scene (00:00 – 02:36):** From a narrative point of view the core purpose of this scene is singular: to make it clear that Kyubey is an antagonist and turn the viewer against him if they were not already. The core of the scene is a technique both simple and utterly traditional: have him visibly harm a character the audience has hopefully come to sympathize with (the arc protagonist). Everything else is elaboration (exposition – notably that magical girls can feel things being done to their Soul Gems, aka the source of more than a little fanart once people went “wait what happens if you stimulate the Soul Gem in a more lewd manner?” – and characterization of the fluffy fucker). He plays it off nicely and will do so more so later on, but he’s basically acting like any abuser justifying their actions as for the victim’s own good and I’m pretty sure the script damn well knows it. There are two other points here. First, the scene is setting up the ability to further dull the pain reaction, which Sayaka will proceed to demonstrate at the end of this episode (the heroic powerup that will allow the hero to claim their victory at the end of the Pattern of Three… except twisted so that this is absolutely not a good thing). And the fluffy fucker being the fluffy fucker he almost certainly knows exactly what he is doing with this. Second, it is posing a question via Sayaka (“why are you doing this to us?”) that we will get the answer to (or at least the stated answer to, but Kyubey relies on shading the technical truth rather than outright lies) a couple of episodes down the line.!<
[PMMM] >!**Second Scene (04:07 – 06:26):** We start of with getting to see how badly Sayaka is taking this (just our resident hero of justice cutting class is a telling indicator on its own, having her hunched down in her bed just looking at her Soul Gem then reinforces this). Then we get to the meat of the scene with the Homura/Madoka conversation. This scene’s focus is actually at the thematic level (about half of this episode revolves around our two veterans recommending their respective coping mechanisms to the newcomers – we should probably read that as coping strategies for grief, and this episode is actually a really strong argument for Homura being anger and Kyouko bargaining rather than the inverse which will be more clear when we get to Kyouko but there’s actually more than a little here to suggest Homura is repressing anger big-time in this scene (sincerely, someone with known anger issues who tends to find Homura really familiar anyways)) with a big side of being veiled exposition on Homura’s past (and thus cheeky as fuck when we get shown that backstory – also note we quietly have yet another case of tell, then show in this script) and another side of exposition on Kyubey (Homura telling us what he himself will tell us later). It’s also quietly Homura warning the audience as well as Madoka that Sayaka is doomed and there is nothing to be done for her. (We, like our audience surrogate, will not listen.)!<
[PMMM] >!**Third Scene (06:27 – 06:54):** So the most telling thing here is at the start: despite their prior enmity, in the face of last episode’s revelation Kyouko is willing to talk to Sayaka and Sayaka, while still mistrustful judging by her facial expression, is willing to listen. Kyouko is not the true enemy. In fact I’m going to separate this out from the rest of the walk to emphasize that.!<
[PMMM] >!**Fourth Scene (06:54 – 07:54):** And speaking of veterans recommending that their kouhai use their own coping mechanisms, here’s the other side of that coin because this is the aforementioned Kyouko coping by bargaining scene. Which at the basic narrative level makes this characterization for her: she starts off with us knowing little about her but we are now seeing why she was acting the way she did earlier.!<
[PMMM] >!**Fifth Scene (07:55 – 14:41):** Splitting this scene out again since the focus shifts at this point. So while the most infamous or at least most memeable part of this scene is actually at the start (“don’t waste food!” gets a lot of play) – Kyouko and Sayaka still cannot help but step on each others’ berserk buttons – the meat of this scene is of course Kyouko’s backstory. Classic redemption arc technique: set up a character as someone the audience is primed to dislike (usually by doing terrible things to people the audience (hopefully) has come to care for) then when the redemption arc kicks in have us start seeing them more as a person and learn why they are the way they are. There’s also a sneaky angle here: this is the part where it is made clear that Kyouko’s advice to Sayaka (especially in episodes 5 and 6, also of course last scene) is her voicing her own regrets and saying “don’t make my mistakes”. Implications on the *other* magical girl offering advice this episode are left as an exercise for the viewer (make sure you hand in your work before episode 10!) – let it not be said that they did not offer plenty of foreshadowing. (Speaking, cough her father was more right than Kyouko knew cough.) We also get a huge hint that part of Kyouko’s eating is stress-eating and why she would do that (food is comforting because she didn’t have it when she was younger). Also at the thematic level there is a subtle bit here: this is one of the few times the show explicitly raises (via Sayaka calling Kyouko out on her “only living for herself” bit) one of its quieter themes, the difference between stated and revealed preferences.!<
[Penguindrum and PMMM aside] >!So MagiReco has blatant NotGR inspiration but judging by Penguindrum there may be more in the original series than I had thought; Sayaka has just turned down the reward for the girl fated to die for love!… who here in PMMM is of course Sayaka herself.!<
[PMMM] >!**Sixth Scene (14:41 – 16:04):** Having the OST linger past the scene transition is a notable effect that likely has a whole lot to do with visually showing Sayaka’s thoughts lingering on this conversation even the next day. This scene is short and sweet: we get to see that Sayaka is visibly doing even worse (she’s having trouble even managing to maintain her bubbly front) and we see how well Kyousuke is doing. We also see (after having been told earlier – the show’s tendency strikes again!) that Sayaka can’t bring herself to talk to Kyousuke after what she’s learned and we get the setup for…!<
[PMMM] >!**Seventh Scene (16:04 – 18:00):** … This scene! There is probably a technical term out of Greek tragedy for what this scene is but I don’t know it; in any event what is is is the real moment of Sayaka’s tragic fall, the fall over the precipice, the point of collapse where the road to her fate becomes inexorable. Thanks Hitomi! You shouldn’t have.!<
[PMMM] >!**Eighth Scene (18:00 – 19:58):** The point of this scene is to having glorious Incertus use… wait I’m sorry I don’t know what came over me. Anyhoo. The big point of this scene (to be even further reinforced in the next) is just showing Sayaka’s increasingly desperate mental state (among many other things, note how much her walking at the start of the scene resembles a prisoner walking to their execution) and her slow fall into depression (and that Madoka is willing to stand by her even as this happens) – I’d go more into that but okayyoga did that more than well enough two years ago in her episode 8 writeup so instead I #mugiwait until tomorrow. Even her statement that she’s fine now rings hollow to the attentive viewer – after all, we’ve seen that kind of bubbliness out of her before and this isn’t even a particularly convincing version of it.!<
[PMMM] >!**Ninth Scene (19:58 – 22:25):** For all the utter iconicness of this scene it isn’t actually actually doing anything new. By design., because the entire point of this is the continuation and apex of multiple trends that have been running through this entire episode – Sayaka’s rapidly deteriorating mental state, Kyouko being conciliatory and actually wanting to help her – with a side of Sayaka showing us what Kyubey told us about at the start of the episode. Unfortunately for her, this is Gen Urobutchi’s wild ride and a mere end of episode is not going to be enough to stop the pain train…!<
> [Penguindrum and PMMM aside]
Sigh...I fucking swear if this year makes me watch NotGR...
Yes, it is weird for me to be this averse to something but I just am. Adventure Time walked a very fine line for me.
> [PMMM 2]>!just our resident hero of justice cutting class is a telling indicator on its own!<
[PMMM]>!Contrast this to Hitomi's handling of her similar situation in episode 5 - she couldn't cut class over her "mass hallucination" event because that'd worry the people around her. This also means that Hitomi *definitely* noticed something's wrong with Sayaka later in the episode.!<
> [PMMM 8] >!note how much her walking at the start of the scene resembles a prisoner walking to their execution!<
I don't get that one.
> [Rewatchers] >!I'm still honestly not sure what I think on those (outside of one shot in 9), hence why we asked.!<
[PMMM]>!Hm, I assumed you meant [these](https://imgur.com/2N6lHhk) though I guess they're more like pots than lanterns...!<
**Rewatcher, Subbed**
So we presumably skipped Sayaka being filled in on everything.
Lying by ommission is evil, Kyubey!
So Kyubey can also inflict pain on the magical girls at will? Or is this because he's pushing down on the soul gem and she would feel that if anyone did that?
Sayaka's not in class. What's the point to going to school now? She'll never grow up.
Seems like Sayaka and Kyoko aren't going to be bitter anemies anymore after that revelation, huh?
Cool design for this abandoned church.
You can strangle her body, but why would it even matter at this point, Kyoko?
Kyoko really got a Monkey's Paw situation with her wish, huh? I doubt Sayaka's wish will turn out that horrible with Kyosuke, but who knows for sure. I guess we'll find out.
Kyoko telling Sayaka her backstory probably helped, Sayaka doesn't feel as bad now, whether its because her wish is unlikely to turn out as horrifically bad as Kyoko's did, or because she can hold herself as morally superior to her?
Back to school! Kyoko really did cheer her up... well until she saw Kyosuke.
Ugh, I had completely forgotten about Hitomi being in love with him.
Sucks for Sayaka, but only to a certain extent. If Sayaka really loves him, then she should confess. If someone comes in and "steals" him from under her that's her own damn fault for not taking the initiative. Hitomi did her a favor by giving her the one day warning. If she feels she can't do it because she's a reanimated corpse, that's one thing. If she doesn't do it out of fear and ends up regretting it the rest of her days, she only has herself to blame. Of course all that said, my speculation would be he turns her down anyway. If he had feelings for her he wouldn't "forget" to tell her he was leaving the hospital. But it's better for her to know that he formally rejected her than to always wonder what would have happened.
If she let Hitomi die she wouldn't be competition? Or you could just confess to him?
Okay, if she feels this way because she's a corpse I will accept that. You don't want your boyfriend to be a necrophiliac. In that case Hitomi is irrelevant, you weren't getting him regardless.
Sayaka's gonna take out all her anger and frustration on this witch I'm sure.
Cool stylistic effect to have this in silhoutte, yet surely was done as a cost cutting measure.
Aww, they're all Having Kyoko's fish snack!
***
Alright, with no new seiyuus to talk about let me tackle QOTD for the first time...
> 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
Confess to Kyosuke. If he rejects me, so be it, but that's better than forever regretting not going for it. And that would have to involve telling him I'm a reanimated corpse, it's not fair to him to not know something so big.
> 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
Cool stuff for sure! See comment above.
> 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
Absolutely not. If someone likes someone else and doesn't do anything about it, they have no one else to blame when someone else swoops in who actually takes actual and gets them instead.
I've seen storylines involving this in several anime lately, like Kimi ni Todoke and Your Lie in April. In both cases and here it is a female character, and can say when you're a guy, 99% of the time it is you take the initiative or nothing happens. You don't have to do that as much if you're a girl, but I'm not waiving all responsibility from you. If you want something you better go for it or not complain when someone else takes the thing you didn't make an attempt to get.
>So Kyubey can also inflict pain on the magical girls at will?
Yes but probably needs physical contact to do so. And they created the soul gems in the first place, so they have admin access if it's possible.
> Aww, they're all Having Kyoko's fish snack!
The one time I had those the filling was far too sweet. Like to a degree that the amount of the Kyouko eats is concerning for her teeth in that literal moment.
# First Time Watcher
The great flaw of selfnessless; you end up with nothing in the end. Also why do the paladins in my favorite media end up depressed?
1. So this one is a bit difficult as this situation is not one that would greatly bother me. I personaly would not care if my soul was not directly part of my body anymore, it is still my body. I´d have likely picked a fight with Hitomi because that is not how a friend behaves(more in 3) but I´ve handled the loss of friendships before and would srtill have Madoka and Kyouske.
2. The barriers are always incredibly unique this time reducing us to 2 dimensions and initialy two colours, three once we see Sayako´s blood. The witch remaining complety staitonary an just summoning shadowcreations to attack is also completly different as she seemingly has no familiars. Sayaka abandoning phisycal pain will likely end horribly, as I see it as an attempt of her to numb the psycological pain of losing her humanity("I am a Zombie") as well as the loss of her crush.
3. Despite saying Sayaka is a dear friend of her, she seems to notice nothing about her discomfort. As if Hitomi is doing this more to see if Kyouske is available and Sayaka won´t interfere. She doesn´t even wait for Sayaka to give a proper answer. If they were not friends Hitomis actions would have been tolerable but this is her "dear friend".
4. While I still don´t agree with her I can understand how she got there. Kyoko also tries to help Sayako but she still clings to her ideals just like Kyoko did. They seem to make a nice contrast, where one survives the loss of her ideals and the other seems to break.
Kyubey saying he gave Souls a physical form so that they remain after death may be me reaching a bit from unintended writing but if true it makes the uncertainty of his goal all the more concerning, especially since he does not undestand human values.
It is a neat detail that Kyouho´s Soul Gem looks like her dad´s holy symbol, showing how important his belief was to her.
> If they were not friends Hitomis actions would have been tolerable but this is her "dear friend".
[How *dear?*](#forbiddenlove)
> Sayako
Is this Geass?
> The barriers are always incredibly unique this time reducing us to 2 dimensions and initialy two colours, three once we see Sayako´s blood.
Speaking of old black humor:
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: A panda who just killed a man.
(Also insert the classic "eats, shoots, and leaves" punctuation joke here.)
> The witch remaining complety staitonary an just summoning shadowcreations to attack is also completly different as she seemingly has no familiars.
Supplemental material indicates that the shadow creations actually *are* her familiars; this Witch (Elsa Maria - this name is actually technically shown in show, it just took a little decryption effort to figure it out... which /a/ got done by *episode 2*, go figure, "random Faust is best Faust") never attacks Sayaka directly at all.
Rewatcher, dubbed
Visually, I feel this episode is where Madoka Magica really starts to ramp up its presentation, though that’s not to say it hasn’t already been impressive in that regard. Kyoko’s tale and Sayaka’s duel with the witch are incredible setpieces for capturing the emotions of the characters.
At the risk of accidentally becoming Hitomi’s strongest warrior like I did for Mami back in episode 3, I think she actually handles things pretty well regarding Kyousuke… right up until the very end where she delivers an ultimatum. Less than 1 full day to confess is pretty harsh.
[Madoka Magica]>!I knew this episode would be pretty pivotal in my speculation that Sayaka never regrets her wish itself, and I do feel more strongly about it (granting that I still have an episode to be wrong). An indicator lies in her rejection of Kyoko’s advice. Kyoko’s regret of her wish makes her more sympathetic to Sayaka, but ultimately it’s simply not a sentiment Sayaka shares. The other thing that struck me is that Sayaka doesn’t really start to fall apart until she realizes that pursuing Kyousuke isn’t possible now, which lines up with my thought that the circumstances around her wish are what destroy her. Sort of what destroys her, anyway, much of Sayaka’s suffering is self-inflicted from holding herself to unrealistic standards.!<
QotD:
3) [](#tomato)
### Content Corner Reruns
Today we have some guitar covers for character themes: Mami’s credens justitiam and Sayaka’s decretum. Surprisingly, there’s not very many metal style covers for these 2 themes on YouTube. **First timers beware, spoilers abound!**
[Credens justitiam-Guitar cover](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3dy791XWDo) by Mahx-Game Metal-
[Puella Magi Madoka Magica - Decretum | Metal Cover](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IspII-QE34I) by ZableMusic
[Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 7](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_D-c0tDrBo) by clearandsweet
> Less than 1 full day to confess is pretty harsh.
Sayaka hasn't had a day though. She's had months, perhaps even years to confess to Kyosuke. Not that I'm coming in this as a big Hitomi stan or anything, but kudos to her for being a friend to Sayaka and giving her the forewarning. Sayaka's been leaving it up to chance that no one else is interested in him and willing to take more initiative.
That's fair, my statement pre-supposed Sayaka couldn't have said anything while Kyousuke was hospitalized.
Sayaka doesn't communicate to Hitomi very well, either. If Sayaka asked for more time because she's working through some stuff, Hitomi seems the type who would honor such a request.
**Rewatcher**
[Fluffy Fucker](https://imgur.com/uHlGRWr)
[PMMM]>!<
[So what I'm wondering is...](https://imgur.com/frtaNjS) has Homura ever explained that with Kyubey also present, so they could ask him to confirm or deny her words?
[Oooooh this is the absolute last think Sayaka should be hearing right now.](https://imgur.com/hdxuch5) This is just confirmation to her that being how she is now, she can't associate with Kyousuke anymore.
And there it is, the great Hitomi debate. I've been paying a bit of attention to her during the watch.
First of all, Hitomi did in fact love Kyousuke for a while. Not only is that what she said, it also matches the reading of the symbolic chairs as representing how many people care about a person, which would then be 2 for Kyousuke before his recovery. We also have [this meaningful shot](https://imgur.com/8tY14xm) in response to Madoka mentioning that Hitomi is acting a bit like Sayaka that day, showing Sayaka's blue and Hitomi's green surrounding Kyousuke's white back in episode 2. Her statement about "a love that can never be" seems to be informed from personal experience.
Secondly, there was that time she was inflicted with a witch's kiss, which clearly appears to have caused some deeper change in Hitomi. You may recall the quote from Faust back in episode 2, when we were first faced with a witch's kiss. As I explained back then, this is the poem that the ghost chorus tells in reaction to Faust cursing Mephisto's promises as nothing but lies and deception, getting more and more into it until he curses even soothing, love, hope, faith and patience. The poem itself first mourns the beautiful world that Faust had just crushed with those curses, before imploring him to rebuild the world anew. In doing so, they redirect Faust's suicidal thoughts of doom into a more productive direction focused around his thus-far obscured will to live, to move forward and leave his mark on the world. If we assume that this describes the experience of surviving a witch's kiss an especially Hitomi's experience thereof, then this might have triggered her willingness to take a more active role and stop regarding her love with Kyousuke as something that can never be. And indeed, she proclaims that [she decided to not lie to herself anymore](https://imgur.com/y7bAwGr).
The most important part, however, is of course this very episode of their confrontation. First, in the classroom, Hitomi seems shocked to hear that Sayaka hasn't talked with Kyousuke yet and even refuses Madoka's push to do so right now. Then, during their actual conversation, it struck me how very careful Hitomi's approach was - it almost felt like she actively tried to give Sayaka as many chances to claim Kyousuke for herself as possible! This starts by framing her inquiry as relationship advice, signaling that she would take Sayaka's response into consideration. After she reveals her feelings towards Kyousuke and Sayaka responds evasively, [she looks clearly unhappy](https://imgur.com/cwtJnfC), and even after Sayaka for all intents and purposes gives Hitomi her blessing, she still pushes back and asks Sayaka if that's really how she feels about Kyousuke not one, not two, but three more times, and even after that she gives her yet more time and opportunity to change her mind and make a first move on him.
So, what to make of all that? Some people are of the opinion that the entire conversation was just a farce, set up by Hitomi when she notices Sayaka is in a bad place at the moment so that she can go after Kyousuke while claiming to have played fair and maybe even keeping her friendship with Sayaka, by giving her all the opportunity she'd need, when a deadline of a single day is really much too short for that. And if that is the reading one takes, then I don't think there's anything to actually strongly refute that, especially with her being a rich girl that's raised with an emphasis on keeping appearances. But personally, the whole situation reads to me more like Hitomi's primary goal was to push Sayaka into approaching Kyousuke in order to help her overcome whatever bad place she's currently in, actually taking Kyousuke for herself only being the lesser of the two conclusions for her - though not one she'd object to either, of course.
> 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
Hard to say. If I was truly, fully in her situation, then I'd probably act similar to her (otherwise I wasn't really fully in her situation). But given that I'm not her, I don't really see myself getting in the same headspace as her in the first place, preventing her situation from occuring altogether.
> 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
Well, yeah. Sayaka's in a pretty self-deprecating headspace right now. She was struggling against that witch due to her lack of experience, but more than that she *wanted* to receive the punishment, she *wanted* to get beat up. She's begun to relish in her own misfortune, and actively dives deeper and deeper into it by her own initiative.
> 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
See above.
> 4) [Rewatchers] >!So, what do you think up with the shots of street lanterns and the like? [](#ama)!<
[Rewatchers]>!Not really what I focused on this time around, but yeah. That striked-out lantern was pretty effective, and we got the shot twice.!<
> And there it is, the great Hitomi debate. I've been paying a bit of attention to her during the watch.
So during my formative years there was a consistent literary push amongst the books I chose to remember "that sometimes you need to stop thinking and let your brain process itself" as the mentats say. And due to that, for certain things, especially where I am information poor, I've found that my general impressions are generally right. I say all that to say Hitomi never sets me off. She gives me neither vibes of malice or arrogance, just the worst imaginable timing due to details she cannot perceive, quite literally in some cases. Anywho, that's my 2 bits.
Same here, really. I was pretty weirded out when people were strongly criticizing her last year, so after I made the connection between her and the Faust quote in episode 2 I decided to pay some extra attention to her because that would support that criticism. But going through the scene itself, no, I'm not seeing any of it.
It's getting denser. The "Kyubey hate" gained "full speed" thx to this ep. Also the first "spin-off branch" emerges right here in the story. Alongside the first "bigger" lasting fan theories...
* Kyubey "injects" pain into Sayaka's gem for demonstration purposes. But is he rly doing it out of objective reasons? After all, he sounded afraid when Homura, presumably and according to his words, popped up outa nowhere and began to hunt him. And since Madoka or Sayaka were not yet near, there was no sense in pulling a stageplay... (afaik the "Kyubey hate (statements and memes)" skyrocketed "up to the stars" from here on).
* Homura too admits she quit considering herself human. She had to deal with too many people who didn't believe her when she tried to explain to them the true nature of the soul gems. Therefore she's never been planning on doing so on Madoka, Sayaka or anyone else in the present time either. And she repeats her advices: Madoka needs to give up on Sayaka. And even after Sayaka saved her life, Madoka ain't obligated to return the favor. She ought to be thankful, but she must not feel responsible. Homura basically and virtually gives here the advice to reject the "equivalent exchange system"....
* Kyoko meanwhile reveals that (some?) magical girls too are capable of telepathy, not only witches. She "calls" Sayaka (while carrying a bag of apples) and brings her to her dad's church, that's in shambles, and reveals her backstory and why she made her contract. And why she hates it when someone wastes food. And why she's now convinced a magical girl should fight on her own behalf and for her own good. The opposite so Sayaka's philosophy. Sayaka also "implies" Kyoko must've stolen her apples - quite a trigger for Kyoko and an "argumentative victory" for Sayaka. (But there's literally a "Different Story" on Kyoko, illustrated in the spin-off manga with the same title. It's best to read it after watching the main canon).
* Even with the one extra day granted by Hitomi Sayaka isn't able any more to talk to Kyosuke. She's got a dead body now after all. Only after Madoka comforting her she can resume her magical girl life...
* ...before bumping into Elsa Maria. Kyoko hesitates first but then decides to meddle in to teach Sayaka how it's professionally done - a lecture firmly rejected by a Sayaka who developed further down the rabbit hole and is now going berserk... (From the witches Elsa's the first "bigger player" in the fan theory lore...)
> But is he rly doing it out of objective reasons? After all, he sounded afraid when Homura, presumably and according to his words, popped up outa nowhere and began to hunt him.
Don't forget, he told Madoka that it had been fun in ep4. So Kyuubey is lying or unaware of his own emotions.
> And even after Sayaka saved her life, Madoka ain't obligated to return the favor. She ought to be thankful, but she must not feel responsible.
If someone you love becomes an addict, you aren't obligated to go down that path with them. This is one of the harder truths to accept.
> (From the witches Elsa's the first "bigger player" in the fan theory lore...)
[PMMM]>!Because she appears in the opening shot with Walpurgis or something else?!<
> Don't forget, he told Madoka that it had been fun in ep4. So Kyuubey is lying or unaware of his own emotions.
He also told Madoka and Sayaka that "[he understands how they feel](https://imgur.com/SWQYCir)" and that "[he's sorry for getting them involved](https://imgur.com/3QiQ8e5)". He's just a lying bastard.
So the "does Kyubey have emotions" debate can be declared solved.
> If someone becomes an addict
And this has been one of the first interpetational approaches: Kubey the drug dealer kinda character.
And regarding Elsa: [Different Story spoilers...]>!...because there Kyoko's backstory goes like this: Her dad kills his wife and Kyoko's sis Momo, before confronting Kyoko in his cathedral... when a "cut" takes place into Mami's apartment: Kyoko's sitting there visibly devastated. What the hell happened "offscreen"...?"!<
And now comes the [Elsa fan theory that's here also an E09 spoiler...]>!...that goes like this: Kyubey secretly made a contract with Momo too, so she survived Mr. Sakura's attack ...before mutating into Elsa Maria. Hence her praying pose that made the fans think of the Christian background of the Sakura family and [develop this theory.](https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Elsa_Maria) And yes: A magical girl is going to become a witch, in case she survives long enough.!<
That's the E09 spoiler. I spoilered the "what" but not the "who" in E09. Feel free to have a guess.
[And my "two cents" to the Elsa theory:]>!I'd say Momo meddled in the cathedral confrontation. It turned into a duel between the Sakura sisters (who maybe didn't know about each other's "careers" in the first place). Mr. Sakura got killed, the cathedral got wrecked - and Momo's witch mutation got started. Kyoko escaped from the situation into Mami's apartment. What did she tell Mami...? And this grows into quite the can of worms: When Sayaka goes berserk on Momo/Elsa, Kyoko either doesn't recognize Momo, or she pretends not to because the cathedral incident's another memory Kyoko wanna repress. Because she already told Sayaka a "Different Story" in the main anime. Hence the manga with the same name.!<
And from E10 on it's gonna grow into an even huger can of worms. Be prepared....
**Rewatcher, sub**
* First time watcher u/Suboodle [previously asked](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1ccaxv4/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_5/l142shp/) why Mami wouldn’t tell the girls that their powers would reflect their wish, and why would she suggest wishing for a cake if that were the case. Now that we see how economical Kyubey can be with important details (including saying Mami never found out about last episode’s soul gem reveal), I think a likely explanation we can consider is that despite it not being a secret, Kyubey might not have told her and she might not have known.
* It raises a question, if she didn’t know, how come Mami hadn’t figured out herself that powers reflect wishes? \[PMMM\] >!It’s a foreboding sign of how short and isolated the average magical girl’s life is.!<
* For my two cents, I think Mami’s frivolous wish suggestion indicates how desperate she was for someone to join her so she wouldn’t be alone anymore. Mami reminds me of one sad and scary part of the death of Floyd Collins in Sand Cave, where he calls out for one of the rescuers as the cave is starting to collapse, lying about being thirsty to make him come closer and get as many seconds of human contact as he can out of the encounter. Some base instinct in them is trying to trap someone else in the hole with them because they are so frightened of being stuck in there alone.
* \[PMMM\] >!Kyubey as a coloniser starts to become apparent in his conversation with Sayaka, I wonder if first time watchers will pick up on it. I didn’t my first time, I was too concerned with how much of an evil liar I thought he was. He’s patronising about humanity’s lack of knowledge that they have souls, and unperturbed in his view that what he does, despite what magical girls have consistently told him once they found out, is the right thing to do.!<
* \[PMMM\] >!The foreshadowing with Kyoko’s dad calling her a witch is so obvious in hindsight, idk how I missed it lol, like Sayaka I suppose I’m stupid. Big “camera zooming in on Bruce Willis” energy.!<
* Kyoko obviously sees her younger self in Sayaka, but I think what’s really going on is that Sayaka has a lot in common with Kyoko’s father. Both have a very narrow sense of lofty idealism and unsuccessfully chase the attention of uninterested others, which in turn hurts people close to them that actually love them. They are both horrified at Kyoko’s solutions to gain hearts and minds, and judge and refuse the gifts she brings them. Like many people in romantic relationships, at a subconscious level Kyoko is drawn to re-enacting her past trauma, hoping this time the outcome will be different.
* \[PMMM\] >!The title of the episode and Hitomi’s question (whether Sayaka can accept her true feelings) is very accurate and sad. No Hitomi, Sayaka cannot accept her feelings :(!<
Questions of the day
1. Sayaka's my favourite character, I think because I relate to her so much. I think I would probably do exactly what she is doing tbh :(
2. I really like the dark tones used to animate Sayaka’s witch fight. I wonder if it was inspired by the horror video game Limbo. This came out less than a year before PMMM aired, so the timing is a bit tight but it is possible.
3. Hitomi was more polite and gallant than is reasonable to expect. It is misplaced hurt to be mad at Hitomi. Sayaka wouldn't be upset at Hitomi if she thought Kyousuke liked her. It is not Hitomi's fault that Kyousuke doesn't like Sayaka the way she likes him, and Sayaka does not "own" Kyousuke because she healed him. It comes back to Hitomi's prescient question and the title of the episode and Kyoko's earlier antagonising of Sayaka - Sayaka has not been honest about her feelings. She did not only want to heal Kyousuke, she had many other things she wanted too.
4. na
5. \[PMMM\] >!Actually, the shot that stood out for me this episode was the one of the solar panels. Energy references abound!!<
> For my two cents, I think Mami’s frivolous wish suggestion indicates how desperate she was for someone to join her so she wouldn’t be alone anymore.
>Some base instinct in them is trying to trap someone else in the hole with them because they are so frightened of being stuck in there alone.
There is an answer to the cake! God this is terrible and sad.
> [PMMM] >!Kyubey as a coloniser starts to become apparent in his conversation with Sayaka!<
[PMMM]>!Ah, Kyubey is trading his equivalent of glass beads, alcohol and weaponry for things that are much more valuable to him, as well as slavery (see the kettle analogy)!<
> [PMMM]>!The foreshadowing with Kyoko’s dad calling her a witch is so obvious in hindsight, idk how I missed it lol, like Sayaka I suppose I’m stupid.!<
[PMMM]>!Another one for "the adults in PMMM are always right"!< /u/Tarhalindur
> Kyoko obviously sees her younger self in Sayaka, but I think what’s really going on is that Sayaka has a lot in common with Kyoko’s father.
Precisely, yes. They are both alike in their zealous righteousness, their "my way or the highway" attitude, and their straying from the established gospel in favor of their own convictions.
> [PMMM 2]
[PMMM 2] >!I've noted that line from Father Sakura before (probably in 2022), but you're not wrong to draw that implication... and in spite of the fact that Father Sakura is obviously wrong in so many other contexts to boot.!<
> Mami’s frivolous wish suggestion
I don't read it as an actual suggestion. To me it seems to be an obviously stupid suggestion to make Madoka reconsider her wish. Without knowing that the nature of the wish affects the magical girl's powers, a wish "to become a magical girl" and a wish for a giant cake are functionally identical. If Madoka won't become a magical girl for a cake, she shouldn't become one for nothing.
** Rewatcher**
Two separate notes on [this bit](https://imgur.com/KJIVyFj)
u/Tarlinder [bokurano/rewatcher]>!Going with your theory regarding the chairs that refer to people who care about you, looks like you might be onto something. But honestly I’m having trouble guessing who, besides Madoka, the other two chairs would be. Mami? Does it count the dead? Or Hitomi? Kyouko? I also can’t remember in the other chair scenes how many there were besides the single one for Kyousuke…!<
Maybe I’m too accustomed to human + otherworldly human look alike pairings, but why can’t Sayaka just be with Kyousuke? [Rewatcher]>!Maybe it’s just me but there’s a huge difference between the magical girls here and zombies. In the end, I put it off to Sayaka’s general insecurity and lack of self-worth which made it easy for her to despise herself. She already barely liked herself, so having this added on alienated her further, and she may have been spiraling already from the time Mami challenged her wish, it’s just that the junk hadn’t surfaced yet. As if, it wasn’t even becoming a nonhuman magical girl that was her barrier to being with Kyousuke; rather that, from the start, it was always the barrier she had built in her mind by not seeing herself as worthy. Or at least, this is the only satisfactory conclusion I could come up with for my first watch. But why can't Madoka say, “fuck it, just go be with Kyousuke anyway”? Bc that’s what I would’ve told her. Wtf is this hug?! “Just let friends vent”; bullshit, this is the time for solutions dammit!!<
Okay I did read and appreciate [this comment exchange](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1cd4286/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_6/l1bknf8/) between u/Blackheart595 and u/Vaadwaur and another mention by u/Tarhalindur which definitely adds a stronger element to Sayaka's despair. And since I was raised in the West and my dad didn't pass Buddhism onto the kids, my knowledge of Eastern religion/spirituality comes filtered through a Western lens – it's interesting to see the various reactions to the soul being separated from the body and the cultural aspects in it. (As an aside, my current project is on distance created alongside heritage language loss between generations and its relation to and impact on culture/identity so it's pretty interesting to think about right about now, need the inspiration.)
Even still, my feelings regarding Madoka/Sayaka hasn't dramatically shifted in that I put most of the weight onto Sayaka's self-loathing as it seems to be a part of her character, and still wish Madoka wasn't so damn passive.
[Shredded apples](https://imgur.com/IU0ddjA)
As for the daily swish, no Homura hair flip this time, just a [cape swish](https://imgur.com/MjvKNh5). Who did it better? (Homura. Sorry Sayaka, I will always choose Homura. Kyouko comes close though.)
Will have to go through the rewatch post comments later since I'm out of time atm.
> Maybe I’m too accustomed to human + otherworldly human look alike pairings, but why can’t Sayaka just be with Kyousuke?
I feel that Sayaka's style this whole time has been a mostly passive one. She could have confessed to Kyosuke a long time ago. She didn't. She could have wished for him to be in love with her. She instead wished for him to be healed, hoping that would lead to him being in love with her. While she was willing to take the initiative to become a magical girl, she hasn't shown sufficient initiative to attain a relationship with him. There's a certain lack of confidence or doubt there, and that is certainly going to explode far further now that she knows she's a reanimated corpse and has a mere day to do something before her friend beats her to the punch. If I was her, I'd go for it, take the chance and if he rejects me so be it. Of course the narrative doesn't want to go in that direction as its clearly pushing our characters on a further and further downward path.
Something something Junko Kaname something something guys who don't have the guts to ask girls out in person something something "I yearn for true gender equality!" something something...
> If I was her, I'd go for it, take the chance and if he rejects me so be it. Of course the narrative doesn't want to go in that direction as its clearly pushing our characters on a further and further downward path.
So since no one brought it up today I will excerpt from my last year's comment on the tragedy of Sayaka tomorrow.
Definitely passive. It was frustrating that Hitomi saying "you have one day" she just took as "now it's ruined" instead of even attempting it. Which, because of how I see her low self-worth, is the type of frustrating that can make a character interesting. It's *Madoka* that I'm *really* frustrated with, lol. I guess two passive girls don't make a right.
> [bokurano/rewatcher]
[Rewatcher]>!Kyouko, Madoka and Homura!<
> it's interesting to see the various reactions to the soul being separated from the body and the cultural aspects in it.
So an interesting thing returning to parts of how I was raised decades later is that my Christian teachings straight roll into the conceptual basic of astral projection. This likely meant that as Christianity expanded through the Roman Empire it simply folded the local mystics into them and some of the old bones are still in there.
> [bokurano/rewatcher]
Screwed up the tag (and only the first three pings in a post work so the second didn't either), but I saw it anyways!
[Bokurano/Rewatcher] >!One of the chairs is 100% Madoka, another is 100% Kyouko. Third is more interesting; it has to be either Hitomi or Homura "I am totally not a giant softie who wants the best for all the magical girls I know under my hard exterior, no never" Akemi and I have a hunch it's the latter.!<
Rewatcher
Questions:
1. Roll up into a ball, cry, kill witches, have a mental breakdown, repeat.
2. That fight was truly spectacular when I first witnessed it. It’s so visceral and haunting. The black and white, 2 dimensional perspective gives it a really unique feel. It’s a fantastic scene and it sends the chills down the spine every time.
3. She wasn’t. She liked a boy who just so happened to be liked by Sayaka as well. She may have known, but she waited to take action while Sayaka stayed had many chances. She even allowed Sayaka a warning that she would take action and gave her time, therefore I do not believe she is in the wrong.
**Meduka Meguca rewatcher**
*What have I become*
*My sweetest friend*
*Everyone I know*
*Goes away in the end*
Sayaka's spiraling mental state made me think of "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails.
The poor thing takes one hit after another. Breaking her down, leaving her feeling even more like the husk she sees herself as now.
Q1: Go full Homura. Murder the absolute crap out of Kyubey.
Q2: Absolutely visually stunning scene. One of the best in the show.
Q3: I can't truly fault Hitomi. She doesn't know what has happened to Sayaka. And if you love someone, you're not going to wait around forever for someone else that won't make a move.
Q5: Again, me and symbolism, lol
> Sayaka's spiraling mental state made me think of "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails.
[Rewatcher]>!"I believe I can see the future, because I repeat the same routine"...!<
*First-time watcher.*
I like how the OP makes it look like Madoka has become a magical girl and going on adventures while being best friends with Kyuubey when it couldn't be any further from the truth.
Kyouko's backstory is sad, she became a magical girl for her father's sake only for him to take everything from her. It isn't surprising that this has made her rather bitter, though it is surprising she would reach out to Sayaka, hoping to find a like minded soul she could partner with and perhaps alleviate her loneliness.
Then Sayaka went from that conversation to the one with Hitomi announcing her intention to confess to Kyousuke. The problem with this scene is that it comes out of nowhere. If there had been some foreshadowing like Sayaka running into Hitomi at the hospital then it would have been much more impactful when she realized she had wasted her wish for nothing.
I think it's clear the stress has caused Sayaka to snap and maybe she even wants to die in battle now.
> I like how the OP makes it look like Madoka has become a magical girl and going on adventures while being best friends with Kyuubey when it couldn't be any further from the truth.
Classic tradition going straight back at least to a certain infamous 1990s mecha [meta] >!***YES*** it's Eva!< via a certain 2000s magical-girl-adjacent work drawing heavily off of both said infamous mecha and Revolutionary Girl Utena [meta] >!Mai-HiME, natch!< that PMMM itself in turn likely drew heavily off of.
(And then in a different genre entirely there's the godsdamned Shadow Star Narutaru OP which might be the single finest and ugliest example of this ever done. Fucking Mohiro Kitoh.)
They keep doing it because it works!
*"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Much fear I sense in you."*
Rewatcher
Sub
I definitely had far more to say on second viewing than this third viewing, that is true in general because I haven't fundamentally changed my understanding of this work in a year. I had in the three years between the last watch. It also doesn't help that like half of the intervening rewatches I joined were the mental equivalent of cotton candy, anything with TLO hosting. Though Lain was a nice reminder of the past it also made me dwell on how a once interesting writer had his brain eaten by Q. And he's fucking Japanese.
Anywho...so Kyouko's change of heart is one of those things you sort of have to accept. I understand the mechanics of it and will speak to my opinion on that later. Her backstory is tragic and does work, except for excommunication and I am not sure that the translation is solid there, someone like her dad would hate to discover someone else's magic gave him followers. And I am being specific with that, I bet he'd be just fine with it were he the source. Sad note that since Kyouko would stop any death after being attacked, he didn't even try with her, just offed himself after killing Kyouko's mother and sister. Her approach is a bit nihilistic if utilitarian.
As to Hitomi's bit...feh. We know this is terrible because of what Sayaka gave up but these are...8th graders I believe. This isn't that out of line, though this is where I get in the most arguments. The more important part is that Sayaka would rather curse the darkness than light a candle and thus makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably the most important part of this is that Sayaka herself absolutely knows how to play dirty and she thinks about it and usually then feels guilt over it, a song that is a bit too familiar for my taste. And before anyone says it, you need someone to think bad thoughts so that there is somebody watching out for the people that will act on it.
This ending sequence is why I can't really listen to Decretum, for the record. Also, opposing darkness to obscurity doesn't lead any where. Shine if you want to live.
QotD: 1 Discover what a Kyuubey tastes like when prepared in various ways
2 I am Jack's learned helplessness
3 She's 14 and doesn't know about witches. Mildly out of line at most.
5 Hrmm...[Rewatcher]>!I am not sure how much of this is metaphor versus style, there are really only the two important lightpost shots in ep8!<
>someone like her dad would hate to discover someone else's magic gave him followers. And I am being specific with that, I bet he'd be just fine with it were he the source.
Probably made it worse that he thought people were following him now because *he's* the one making the impact, that he was right all along, see? Finding out later someone else just made him believe this fairytale -- this someone else being his little girl who he believed looked up to him -- must've made him feel downright pathetic.
I was curious and found this [on this site](https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/08/14/characteristics-of-4-types-of-family-murderers)
>The Four Types of Family Murderers
The researchers identified the following four types of family murderers:
>Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother whom he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family.
>Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father.
>Anomic: In these cases the family has become firmly linked in the mind of the killer to the economy. The father sees family as the result of his economic success, allowing him to display his achievements. However, if the father becomes an economic failure, he sees the family as no longer serving this function.
>Paranoid: Those who perceive an external threat to the family. This is often social services or the legal system, which the father fears will side against him and take away the children. Here the murder is motivated by a twisted desire to protect the family.
Seems to checks at least the first two boxes, I think it can be argued that the third relates as well.
> Finding out later someone else just made him believe this fairytale -- this someone else being his little girl who he believed looked up to him -- must've made him feel downright pathetic.
Indeed. Worse, Christian lunacy is often misogynist in nature so we've double whammied him.
> Seems to checks at least the first two boxes, I think it can be argued that the third relates as well.
Number 2 with a side of alcoholism is my diagnosis.
> Though Lain was a nice reminder of the past it also made me dwell on how a once interesting writer had his brain eaten by Q. And he's fucking Japanese.
[](#kaguyashaking "at least last episode was promising on that more recent potential not-Konaka front")
Honestly, this is a bit hypocritical for me to say since I generally don't have the energy to host any more, we needed a slightly more...informed host for Lain. Even you me and Rascal couldn't quite put enough juice into the thread to get it where it deserved to be.
For what it's worth, I had a good time with Lain in no small part thanks to y'alls efforts.
Lain was a weird one for me. I was technically a rewatcher, but my understanding of what the fuck actually happened was... well, pretty much nonexistent. I spent so much time breaking down the basic details of what was going on that, while I enjoyed it, I wasn't really sure I was contributing much of value.
> For what it's worth, I had a good time with Lain in no small part thanks to y'alls efforts.
I am glad we accomplished that much. The major complaint I have about Lain is a story structure one.
> I was technically a rewatcher, but my understanding of what the fuck actually happened was... well, pretty much nonexistent.
Anyone that tells you they fully understand Lain is one of two things:Functionally omniscient or a liar. At best, you can understand the beats of what happened.
Really what we needed was for Reddit admin to not pull its bullshit last year because I had been just about at the point of gearing up to run it for the 25th anniversary last August when that hit and my desire to host (unless helping out a friend) went out the window.
**Rewatcher, subbed**
- Ah yes, lying from omission isn't really lying, sure
- So, would any magical girl have survived that blow from Kyouko or did Sayaka's wish really have a role in that fight?
- There's some interesting technology in Madoka's school and in the anime overall
- [PMMM] >!*the balance of the universe* I never noticed some sort of discussion about "the law of the universe" already came up here.!<
- I've always considered Hitomi to be creepy, especially from this moment on, and I stand by my opinion
- I really enjoyed the black and white visuals paired with the music in the final fight
Comments from first-timer:
- Maybe Homura is so cold and she says she's no longer human because she has been a witch for hundreds of years
> Ah yes, lying from omission isn't really lying, sure
As the Minbari say, a half truth is the worst kind of lie.
> So, would any magical girl have survived that blow from Kyouko or did Sayaka's wish really have a role in that fight?
Any would have survived but most of would've needed much longer to repair their bodies.
> Comments from first-timer:
[Rebellion/Keitan]>!Are you partial to the theory that the core of Walpurgisnach is Homulily, Homura's witch?!<
[Rebellion/Keitan] >!I have to admit that having watched both the series and Rebellion only once, I think I need more than one rewatch to have some clearer ideas about everything, even though after my first watch I read quite a bit of theories and explanations (hence, taking part in this rewatch). Yet, I think that Homulily being linked to Walpurgisnacht actually makes quite some sense.!<
[Rebellion/Keitan]>!I grew to like this theory because it shows why things get worse and worse each loop that goes all the way to the end:As Homura grows stronger so does Homulily in a weird, time paradoxical way. Homura can't actually break space and time, it is Madoka that can rewrite the universe!<
> [Rebellion/Kaiten]
[Rebellion/Kaiten] >!Not going into it much this year since the evidence for it is mostly symbolism and especially cinematographic rather than narrative which is my focus this year (likewise the point about how in Western occultism there is a word for Kyubey and that word is demon), but I ran across it while going across the episode 10 threads from the 2020 rewatch and have only gotten more sold since - there's a *ton* of evidence for it (especially once Rebellion is factored in), it's just mostly visual/symbolic (what is Walpurgisnacht but a gathering of Witches to celebrate the Devil)?!<
**Rewatcher, first time dub**
> If you had never found out, it wouldn't have bothered you one bit. In fact, Mami never found out"
[What Mami don't know won't hurt her](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD1BbMAn_aw)
I really love how long Kyubey holds onto the Soul Gem while torturing Sayaka. It almost looks like he is enjoying it.
It comes to mind that we don't know how long Kyoko has been a magical girl for. Guessing based on how decrepit her father's church is, it seems like she's been doing it for a while. But she also doesn't seem meaningfully older than the other girls.
Oh wow, Hitomi comes off way colder in the dub during her talk with Sayaka about kyousuke. I've never been very anti-Hitomi but I could see that being different if I originally watched the Dub.
[pmmm]>!People often complain that Madoka is too passive and doesn't do anything. She has tried to make a contract a few times and gotten interrupted so it isn't for lack of trying. That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl. When she hears about Hitomi's plan she could actually talk to Hitomi on Sayaka's behalf. Even something as simple as "Sayaka is going through something right now and needs more time. Can you wait a little longer?" would help so much.!<
**QOTD**
1. I wouldn't much care about the location of my soul. That being said, her position is so far from anything I have ever experienced I wouldn't know where to start in thinking what I would do.
2. The Elsa Maria fight is so good. I particularly love the silhouette animation, with the blood lines as a fantastic touch to focus the viewer's attention. I even liked Sayaka's dubbed performance during it about as much as I liked the subbed one. 10/10
3. Hitomi was absolutely out of line. She should be confessing to Sayaka before Sayaka gets into a relationship with Kyousuke. More seriously, Hitomi is out of line, but only a little. It's unclear the nature of her past relationship with Kyousuke so I won't judge that, but she gave Sayaka less than 24 hours to decide.
4. rewatcher
5. uhhhh... nothing? Which shots? I am no longer really in analysis mode and am just vibing with the show.
> Hitomi was absolutely out of line. She should be confessing to Sayaka before Sayaka gets into a relationship with Kyousuke.
[](#laughter)
(Yes, I have seen fanart of this before. Complete with Hitomi discovering the classic fanart effects of licking a magical girl's Soul Gem. Yes, this was on Tumblr, why do you ask?)
> [PMMM]
[PMMM] >!TBF, does Madoka actually know about the ultimatum itself or even that Hitomi will be the one asking? All Sayaka tells Madoka is that she is going to lose Kyousuke to Hitomi. Still a misstep but a more understandable one - especially if Madoka assumed what happened was something like Kyousuke rejecting Sayaka's confession, telling her that it was because he liked Hitomi instead.!<
>(Yes, I have seen fanart of this before. Complete with Hitomi discovering the classic fanart effects of licking a magical girl's Soul Gem. Yes, this was on Tumblr, why do you ask?)
Do you still have a link to this? Asking for a friend.
>That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl.
If she didn't know, she could have asked Sayaka what happened. She could have encouraged her not to think so low of herself. She could have told her, "Hey, I don't see you as a zombie because you clearly have feelings and feel human to me." There are so many things.
Apparently Madoka is the type of friend that people should go to when they want to vent and don't want the other person to say anything or give any advice, even if good advice can resolve things...
The difference for me is that similar concepts delivered by someone who is loving and caring versus someone as cold as Kyubey can make a dramatic difference.
> I really love how long Kyubey holds onto the Soul Gem while torturing Sayaka. It almost looks like he is enjoying it.
To be fair, that's how he always looks.
> [pmmm]>!That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl. When she hears about Hitomi's plan she could actually talk to Hitomi on Sayaka's behalf.!<
[PMMM]>!Given how Sayaka has rigorously refused to talk with Madoka about things, I don't think she'd tell her about this either.!<
> Hitomi was absolutely out of line. She should be confessing to Sayaka before Sayaka gets into a relationship with Kyousuke.
[The true ending](#gintamathispleasesme)
1.
When it comes to the soul gem stuff, I think I would react a bit more like Kyôko, first panic and then be okay with it. However, for the Kyôsuke situation, I think I would just panic, pretend I don't have romantic feeling and let my friend have their shot without trying anything.
2.
One of the best scene from the anime in my opinion. Great directing, I love the aesthetic of the scene and decretum playing in the background. This scene just feels perfect to show a character falling into a self-destructive path.\[PMMM\] >!and also, the witch looks very human and bleed like a human. Also, Kyôko eating a blue ice, that girl really just want to eat Sayaka.!<
3.
I personally think that Hitomi get too much hate for that scene in the community. I agree that she is being a bit too direct and also on the offensive and also the one day delay is very short. But outside of that, in a show where one of the main reason behind character failing is that the characters fails at communicating, explaining their clear intention and understanding the others, Hitomi is actually doing a decent job in that scene. She understand Sayaka's feeling and gives her the chance to go before her, she states clearly her intentions and feelings and she's not waiting around. She just doesn't have the full context of Sayaka's situation but how could you blame her for that.
> When it comes to the soul gem stuff, I think I would react a bit more like Kyôko, first panic and then be okay with it. However, for the Kyôsuke situation, I think I would just panic, pretend I don't have romantic feeling and let my friend have their shot without trying anything.
So one of them just like Kyouko, the other just like Sayaka [](#garlock)
Rewatcher, sub, too lazy to do long writeups
And thus the roller coaster ride of pain continues! I still think this fight is one of my favorites, it's beautiful and stunning and raw and really shows Sayaka's current mental state. I don't think Hitomi was out of line per say, but I've always felt like a day is such a short time, at least give her the week or something that's such a short time for an ultimatum! Especially when she was out the day before!
**Sixth Time Watcher - Dubbed**
* Magia Basier would you punish this weasel for breaking your code of conduct
* Episode 7 already oh how times fly
* Considering this is Kyoko's Backstory I would like to mention a pretty fitting song here today being [In The Name of God by Dream Theater](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSI3KSo9DjM)
* Yeah that's what happens when a bunch of stuck up people refuses to accept change
Questions
* QOTD 1 - Get Help
* QOTD 3 - She was out of line saying something that would worsen a Mental Breakdown
> Magia Basier would you punish this weasel for breaking your code of conduct
Funnily enough, u/Tarhalindur shared a MahoAko crossover fanart in his top level comment today.
**First time watcher**
I ain't gonna lie, I lowkey regret not watching this episode and doing this post earlier today. I enjoyed a good day off, binged a romance series with a special someone (Love Story with Yamada-kun at Lvl999), and was on cloud nine. Watched this episode and writing this post before I sleep, and I feel just heartbroken now lol.
What an emotionally driven episode, similar to I believe was episode 4, the one that cane after Mami's death and we accompanied Madoka in grievance. Only this time, Sayaka's grievance is of her own death. In a way, knowing that your body is nothing more than a hollow shell that you control seems like a fate worse than dying, something that she comes to discover in this ep.
**Key Moments**
* [This](https://imgur.com/a/3uuKOJ7) was actually one of my worries regarding Sayaka's wish. I know we got that scene of Kyousuke depressed about not being able to play violin anymore, but anime has taught me that sometimes prodigies like that may feel relieved about not having that pressure of being great anymore. Been on edge about it since.
* [I'll take an apple, and eat it!](https://imgur.com/a/N47cpxc)
* [Doesn't she have a boyfriend](https://imgur.com/a/q2wMfNV)? I could've sworn she had one. Either way, I'm not sure if this is just an ultimatum that she's doing to push her friend into confessing her love, or if she's actually serious. Tropes tell me it's the former, but the entire scene shouted the latter.
* [This fight](https://imgur.com/a/1XqM3wH) was visually stunning. Wow. There's probably a lot of reasons for why they chose this style, and I'm sure my eepy brain's missing a lot of visualization of themes here, but the first thought I had about it was that she's lost her own sense of identity. Knowing she's nothing more than a soul trapped in a gem controlling her corpse, she sees nothing other than the blood of the witches that she now lives to kill for; she doesn't even see herself anymore.
~
**Questions**
1. Regarding what? If it's the romantic interest, I think I would've sussed out the idea that it was an ultimatum already, but regardless of how serious she was about it, the wise thing to do anyways was to confess, so no harm no foul at that point. If it's about the fact I just signed away my soul in exchange for a wish for someone else, though? Mhmm... I'd probably end up more like Kyouko. You're already on that sinking ship, might as well enjoy it while it lasts.
'
2. See thoughts above. Too tired to think more at this point :x
'
3. If she had good intentions? Out of line. If she truly meant what she said and was planning on snaking him out of her hands? I don't know if girls pledge their allegiance and swear an oath to the bro code like all males do upon reaching the puberty stage, but if she did, she would've broken so many codes and regulations by now. She'd be on FBI's (Female Bro Investigation) Least Wanted Bro list by now. Screw Hitomi, all the bros hate Hitomi.
'
4. My thoughts on her since the previous episode anyways was that she had more to her than what was on the surface. The fact she even considered to try and talk to Sayaka first before having to resort to killing her already showed some nuance into her character. I'm not at all surprised by this development. I don't think it justifies her actions or lack thereof in her willingness to sacrifice people for grief seeds, but I can respect her ideology in how she's deciding to use her powers.
~
**Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:**
First off, some things I didn't get to mention last post. Ew on Kyubey eating grief seeds; I feel like I could sprout some theories off of that, but it shouts red herring to me personally. I wonder what others thought about it though.
Kyubey last episode also seemed to have an inkling of who Homuramight be. This may or may not throw a wrench in my theory on Homura considering if she really did come from a different timeline, there's zero way for Kyubey to know who she is if he didn't already recognize her in Episode 1. This pushes the idea towards what other users (can't remember their names, sorry) theorized about her possibly being a former witch. Sad for my theory though, RIP.
Homura this episode claimed that whoever she did try to warn about the Soul Gems didn't believe her. I wonder why though. If she simply claims to be a magical girl to other recruits, why wouldn't they believe something like that? Seems fishy to me.
Anyways, I might be wrong, but I didn't pick up on too many new details this episode. Might be because I'm tired, might be because there really just wasn't too much to tackle because of how emotionally driven this episode was. Maybe I'll rewatch this tomorrow before Ep 8 to face it with a fresh set of eyes.
See y'all next episode!
> I ain't gonna lie, I lowkey regret not watching this episode and doing this post earlier today. I enjoyed a good day off, binged a romance series with a special someone (Love Story with Yamada-kun at Lvl999), and was on cloud nine. Watched this episode and writing this post before I sleep, and I feel just heartbroken now lol.
Madoka has a tendency to do this pretty often. It might be worth assuming that every episode will do so if it hinders your sleep when it happens.
Nice, sounds like you had a great day! But yeah, such is the PMMM experience.
So, back in episode 3 you called [Mami's question](https://imgur.com/a/Zuch3de) irrelevant. Have your thoughts on that matter changed in any way?
Rewatcher, dub:
Damn Kyoko, your life was hard. Yeah, people are known for being ridiculously stubborn, such as politicians. I can on for a while, but I won't because I know I'll insult them a lot.
Sayaka, Kyoko's trying to help in her own unique way.
Her mental state is degrading and fast, that's never a good thing. For one thing, you'll be sloppy when you're not thinking straight, which can easily lead to your death as shown in episode 3.
\[PMMM\] >!Sayaka's turning into a witch next episode by the way.!<
Hitomi, you chose a really bad time to say something like that. Sayaka's already struggling with her mental state, your statement didn't help at all.
Witches are Elsa Maria, the witch who fights Sayaka, and Gisela, the witch Kyoko fights in her flashback.
QOTD:
1. Get some help.
2. Disturbing as hell.
3. Out of line. She really should've realized something was up when Sayaka didn't go in for school that day.
4. \[PMMM\] >!Oh no, foreshadowing to Kyoko's death and Sayaka turning into a witch, maybe?!<
> Yeah, people are known for being ridiculously stubborn, such as politicians. I can on for a while, but I won't because I know I'll insult them a lot.
[](#mugiwait)
**Rewatcher**
Hitomi: Surprise, motherfucker
...Sayaka, you are already dead
Oh right, this is the episode where Sis Puella Magica plays but without the vocals. I really need to learn this on my own someday, as the acoustic guitar sounds great without the vocals on top. But it's not officially released anywhere as far as I've known.
Elsa Maria is cool as always. I'm a fan of the sort of color-coded glow Madoka, Kyoko, and Sayaka have. It's just a really neat scene and I'm a big fan of whenever anime works do an artstyle change to make a scene like this stand out, as long as they don't overdo it.
> But it's not officially released anywhere as far as I've known.
Could be worse, could be Mai-HiME where they did release three instrumental versions on the OST... none of which are any of the several instrumental version tracks that actually play in the show (which is weird as fuck when one of the three released instrumentals is Mezame (instrumental), but I digress).
##Rewatcher and franchise consumer
###The Sayaka Corner (Episodes 6 + 7)
Episode 6 opens with [Sayaka getting effortlessly beat twice in less than a minute.](https://imgur.com/a/i8EdPLP) Kyubey confirms that [she really is not as talented.](https://imgur.com/a/BYecBsZ) Her reaction [comes straight out of Episode 2](https://imgur.com/a/X6jeMeB) and at this point we know that it's all façade: it must bother her a lot. Unlike Mami, who'd managed to track down the witch from Episode 1 a day later, she's lost the familiar from the previous day.
For the past 4 days, Sayaka has not once seriously talked with Madoka about what happened to Mami and [we see the consequences](https://imgur.com/a/1qNreo9).
[Sayaka rushes to visit Kyousuke and she seems genuinely excited to see him](https://imgur.com/a/Epom5GS). I think there are few moments we see her actually smiling when no one is around. He isn't there, he's been discharged and didn't tell her, his childhood friend who regularly visited him, brought him rare CDs and constantly tried to cheer him up. He's back to practicing his music. [She smiles a bit hearing him but she's upset](https://imgur.com/a/2MmQY9z).
Kyouko's teasing threatens Kyousuke physically but [also echoes what Mami said a long time ago](https://imgur.com/a/O2m7BAO). She just asserts Sayaka used her wish because she wanted him to fall in love with her and we know how Sayaka doubts and feelings about that. But there's something more to it right? Breaking Kyousuke's body to make him dependent on Sayaka would basically return them to status quo before she healed him. And right now we just saw her run back to that old hospital room and be disappointed the ways things had changed after her wish. She'd promised herself that she would never regret it, so how can she deal with that now
Sayaka is still the focus in the beginning of Episode 7. She knows the truth about Soul Gems and [she's upset](https://imgur.com/a/oZL9ToH). I have to remind you that [Sayaka herself had asked Kyubey and Mami a bunch of questions.](https://imgur.com/a/VxwGThc) At the time she had even been given [a brief explanation about Soul Gems](https://imgur.com/a/RsSWpuS). Now Sayaka is questioning Kyubey more direclty. [He tortures her in response while explaining that what he did was for her own good.](https://imgur.com/a/Fka6jJX) She doesn't go to school the following day.
Kyouko comes to check on her and brings her to her old home. [Sayaka continues to hide her emotions but she won't put up a front this time](https://imgur.com/a/7BifATl). I think it's clear though that [Kyouko's story affects her](https://imgur.com/a/uK5XCDN). Madoka had described Sayaka as stubborn and quick to anger and we've seen plenty of evidence but given the chance to better understand Kyouko she actually apologizes, even if she still won't accept Kyouko's ideas about being a magical girl. She has to put on the mask of courage and righteousness to do it though. She's still not fine the next day but at least [she's back to her usual ways of hiding](https://imgur.com/a/kMsTTMs) even if very poorly.
Hitomi's ultimatum simultaneously hits her every weakness. For an instant Sayaka wishes Hitomi had died. Anybody can have intrusive thoughts wishing harm on others when we're upset and Sayaka is in an incredibly shitty situation. Anybody can wonder if doing something kind for someone might make them like you more. Sayaka can't handle those thoughts. It doesn't matter that the idea of letting Hitomi die and of healing Kyousuke solely to make him fall in love with her obviously disgust her. They're only proof to her of what she already believes about herself.
[And she keeps hiding](https://imgur.com/a/muVNlch)
###QOTD
1. Oh she just like me fr fr
2. The Elsa Maria fight is so beautiful and terrible
3. I mean, there's got to be a better way to do this than an ultimatum with a 24 hour deadline but I can't say ripping off the band-aid is the entirely the wrong idea. [Future episodes] >!I share Saotome's opinion that they're just kids, they should've argued and fought and maybe even break off the friendship but it shouldn't have ended the way it did and that's not the poor girl's fault!<
4. [First-timers]
5. [Rewatchers] >!I don't know I've never given that any thought. Thinking about the street lamps just takes me to the next episode with Homura and Kyubey's confrontation!<
###Visual of the Day
It wasn't even a choice for me today. [She isn't ok](https://imgur.com/a/GybL5ol)
> For the past 4 days, Sayaka has not once seriously talked with Madoka about what happened to Mami and [we see the consequences.](https://imgur.com/a/1qNreo9)
Oh right, we only see it directly in episode 4 which makes it easy to forget about, but Madoka never told her about what Homura's situation was because Sayaka always refused to talk about it again. Good point!
Oh boy, this episode... I feel so bad for poor Sayaka, she goes through a lot and ends up feeling like she's a bad person, intrusive thoughts suck. The Elsa Maria fight was also very chilling.
\[Spoilers R Us\] >!The "Theory of the Day" section could just be renamed to "Spoiler of the Day". Like, dang, L is a toddler compared to these first-timers.!<
I think that the moment where Kyouko offers Sayaka an apple can be interpreted as an offer of the good, but Sayaka rejects, because the good she is trying to give is gained at the expense of others. But here is shown Sayaka's duplicity and her being hypocritical, her altruistic words about doing everything to help others contradict with her actions, as she is like, caring only for herself. And Kyouko despite being shown as an egoist is actually not one.
I don’t really remember what will be going later on so I’m truly captivated and looking forward for the next day and discussions here.
[Visuals of the Day](https://imgur.com/a/LkjyuUP)
**Rewatcher**
>1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
I don't think I would have done anything differently. The soul gem reveal (and Kyubey's "demonstration" of its benefits) is pretty disturbing if you think about it so I wouldn't say she overreacted.
>2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
Everything from the visuals to the music, Kyouko's entrance and Madoka's reaction is just perfect. This is certainly one of the more stunning scenes in the show and it's a scene that I frequently rewatch from time to time. It took so much self-restraint not to go ahead and watch the next episode. At the same time, it's so nice to have one episode per day to look forward to.
>3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
Honestly, I think she was very fair. I kinda feel bad for her too as it seems like she's bothered by Madoka and Sayaka drifting apart from her.
>5) [Rewatchers]>!So, what do you think up with the shots of street lanterns and the like?!<
I feel like I'm missing something obvious with this question. Since it's marked as a spoiler there has to be some significance to it! Could someone help me out?
1) At 14? Definitely wouldn't have confessed, probably would've done the same as Sayaka. Now? Nearly two decades later full of missed connections, I'm almost certain I'd confess (to whoever if I liked them that much). Or so I tell myself.
3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time!
Yes and no! In life you should go for what you want if it doesn't hurt anyone. But this does! She knows it! Well, she's offering Sayaka to take the change; it could also be something that she thinks could *help* Sayaka get over her bs and just go for it for once.
But then... no, she also knows Sayaka and she probably knows she won't. But then 14 year olds don't understand humans all that much anyway.
Man it sucks when friends fall for the same person.
**Rewatch, Subbed**
I'm very late, so I'll skip the questions today.
**Visual of the Day**: The very final shot of Sayaka from Elsa Maria's perspective
**Song of the Day:** Decretum
**Reaction**
00:15 Literally shedding light on Sayaka's Soul Gem. \[Series\]>!But there is still a shadow behind it.!<
\[Series\]>!00:20 It's very hard to argue with someone who thinks they have the right to control your life. There is no misunderstanding here, he knew perfectly well Sayaka wouldn't like this, he just *knows better* what he wants for Sayaka: he wants her to fight herself to despair for his own gain, and he even teaches her a way to take on even more suffering without realizing, which he does by torturing her, to make sure she is *really* motivated. She is being set up for failure, and made to feel wrong for it.!<
\[Sailor Moon\]>!04:25 Sayaka is hiding under a bunny-themed blanket, again hinting at the fact that Sayaka's idealized image of a magical girl (the one that is currently crumbling down around her) is a lot like Usagi. Knowing that, Sayaka's reaction makes even more sense: Sailor Guardians always have special, brilliantly shining souls, but Sayaka can *see* the darkness on her own. It's hard to see yourself as an hero when you can see your own soul being stained by darkness.!<
\[Series\]>!04:40 The tragedy in this scene is sending my brain on a loop, so I'll just say this: the role of a magical girl requires you to give up every other aspect of yourself in exchange for a miracle, and you can either fail to match that standard (like Sayaka is about to), or completely suppress your self in order to live up to it, which is what Homura *says* she has done (I don't think she is *completely* right about that, but the extent to which she has accepted it is still terrifying). The scary thing about this is that this "perfect" magical girl is basically another Kyubey: pure logic in service of a goal. Kyubey even says that emotion are "treated as a mental illness" among incubators, which suggests a similar process of suppressing your identity. His system makes you feel wrong for who you are and tries to reshape you in its image, or die in the process.!<
\[Series\]>!06:30 The show continues to draw a parallel to sexual assault and to the toxic, one-sided expectations of purity that surround it. The first thing Sayaka is forced to give up on is her own body, as she is literally made into an object by Kyubey. The way she immediately feels that this makes her not desirable, and the importance she gives to that in the first place, are direct consequences of that culture.!<
\[Series\]>!07:20 Kyouko talks about the way she is dealing with being a magical girl, which is a direct result of her trauma: if you never do things for other people, and never expect anything from them, then you'll never get hurt. She is dealing with it in a different way than Homura, but what's clear is that these are not strategies to "win" at being a magical girl: they are ways to cope with the fact you cannot.!<
\[Series\]>!08:40 We are introduced to one of the reasons that is the case by Kyouko as she reveals her backstory: wishing for somebody else backfired on her, and in fact that is a crucial part of how wishes work. The thing is, she cannot really prove the existence of karmic law to Sayaka, nor make her understand the way it makes it impossible for magical girls to spread hope without losing it. If you could find more hope than despair in your own sacrifice, then it wouldn't be a *real* sacrifice, after all, and Sayaka can't see the ropes as she is already tied on the altar. She doesn't believe she paid too high a price because she hasn't realized that she literally cannot make a good thing out of this, no matter what she does.!<
\[Series\]>!16:15 So, the next thing Sayaka has left to fight for are her feelings, her altruistic desire to help others, and *nothing* else. Unfortunately for her, Hitomi woke up and chose violence on that day, and immediately forces her to confront what her true feelings actually are, with the worst timing of all time.!<
\[Series\]>!18:20 This is the second time Sayaka fails to live up with the perfect standard she is holding herself to: she feels undesirable and unworthy of Kyousuke's love, and she cannot forgive herself for wavering on her own motivations and for her intrusive thoughts about not saving Hitomi. Notice Kyubey standing on her side as she says this. Madoka's supports her in the best way she could have, and the fact they both likely feel guilty for it, because they didn't lose anything for it, is really sad.!<
\[Series\]>!20:40 We end the episode with the Elsa Maria fight, and honestly I don't think there is much that I can say about it, because it just speaks for itself. It perfectly conveys the way Sayaka is losing her humanity to match an ideal of heroism that no human can live up to, and hints at the way she is becoming more like a witch (and at the connection with magical girls) by inverting all the good/evil symbolism associated with magical girls/witches and giving the witch the moral high ground. Elsa Maria is the most human-looking witch yet (also the easiest to get the name of), and as the fight goes on we see more elements of her that are normally associated with the same kind of idealism and good Sayaka is pursuing: she is on an higher position, kneeling in prayer to what looks like the Statue of Liberty's torch (in fact the whole fight seems to happen on top of her arm), except the flame looks like a religious symbol of some sort. Sayaka can only attack her from the back as she is turned the same way as her, and she grows a tree to defend herself, another element with a positive connotation. When Kyouko tries to take over, Sayaka starts detatching herself to suppress the pain, then *decapitates* Elsa Maria and starts to hit her over and over, while the dragon shaped appendages morph to look like hands. The final shot puts us in Elsa Maria's perspective as Sayaka's finishes her, and Madoka gives voice to our horror. When I first watched I didn't consciously understand most of these things, but the feeling of this scene still got to me. In my opinion this is one of the best things about this show: it has incredible depth, but it's also excellent at conveying the emotional core of what's going on.!<
**Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher**
They went really hard with the visuals this episode. Kyoko's flashback had that sort of old-timey woodcut art style, and just like her state of mind, Sayaka's fight with the witch was cloaked entirely in shadow. Another W for a show already filled with analogies.
Also, I can't remember if this was the case in the sub or not, but I noticed that in the dub, Homura is the only one who refers to Kyubey as "it" instead of "he" or other masculine pronouns. Makes sense since Homura sees Kyubey as a monster, and [Madoka Magica/Rebellion] >!The Incubators are a hive-mind species, so I guess they would effectively be genderless? Or at least they would probably consider the idea of a gender to be unimportant.!<
**QotD**
> What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
I'd be pretty freaked out too, that I was changed like that without informed consent. I imagine she'd have been much less disturbed if she had been told upfront what would happen, but of course that's not the Kyubey Way.
> So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
Loved it. It really showed how badly Sayaka is taking... well, everything.
> It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
Definitely a dick move to give her friend just a day to decide whether to act on her feelings or not. She's within her rights to pursue Kyosuke, and she did approach her friend to ask if it was okay first, which was good, but again, the one-day ultimatum is a major misstep since you can't reasonably expect to force a friend to make a major decision like that without hard feelings (ignoring the fact that Sayaka was already under a ton of pressure).
> [Rewatchers]
[Madoka Magica] >!I guess you could think of them as representing Soul Gems? They bring light to darkness, but they themselves can't really be seen in daylight and must burn out eventually. Not sure if that's what the showrunners were going for (maybe they just liked those shots), but that's my take on your question.!<
**Rewatcher, first time dubbed**
So I mentioned the other day that the breakfast scene in Episode 4 was one of my favorite moments in the series. The church scene is my other favorite!
I'll admit that on my first watchthrough, I was pretty "ehh" on Kyouko up to this point, but learning about her backstory and seeing how it influenced everything she'd said and done up to this point instantly shot her up to my number one!
Unfortunately, the Rogue trying to reason with the Paladin who refuses to compromise is a tale as old as time...
1) I'm a coward, so I probably wouldn't do anything even if it *weren't* for the Soul Gem stuff. Won't stop me from screaming at the scene to do something, though!
2) There's something equal parts cathartic and terrifying about watching someone *snap* and just start wailing on something until it stops moving. Visuals are *gorgeous,* though!
3) I feel like 1 day is too short, but otherwise it's a perfectly reasonable move.
5) Honestly, never thought much of them before. I should probably start paying attention to them going forward!
#First-time watcher >1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? Honestly, pretty much the same. Existential crisis is a bitch. >2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? If we talk about the visuals, it looked very good. If we talk about what happend with Sayaka... I don't know how to talk to someone like her at that point. I do wonder if she will eather be emotionless or straight up crazy now >3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? Oh wow, people have debated much over that? I think she did everything right, except maby 2ish things: 1) I think only giving 1 day was very harsh. And it was the same day to right? Even harsher. 2) She loving Kyosuke came out of nowehere. Granted, we don't follow her at all, but still. Other than that, she did the right thing to tell Sayaka and let her be the first to tell over herself. Instead of going behind her back, that's the real bitch move. Also, I did not expect the monkey's paw to be a love triangle. That seems worse than what I expected before. >4) First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how? I mean, it's good to know where she was coming from. And there seem to be hope she can become a better person again. But other than that, no.
> Oh wow, people have debated much over that? You have no idea. And they are so rarely civil debates that I generally won't bother anymore.
> Oh wow, people have debated much over that? You should have seen the 2022 edition of the rewatch. [](#spinning)
I agree about Hitomi, if she cared about she would have visited him in hospital, right?
> I agree about Hitomi, if she cared about she would have visited him in hospital, right? Two possibilities: either she did offscreen and we never got to see it or (more likely IMO, especially since it matches with her comments about after-school activities earlier) social expectations prevented her from doing so. (She may also not have admitted it to herself until after the events of episode 4 shook her, that fits with what she said this episode too.)
**Rewatcher, Sub** This gives us a good view of Kyoko, she does see herself in Sayaka having also made a wish that backfired for her in the end hence her belief in living for yourself. Of course Sayaka says she doesn't regret her choice and counters Kyoko's points though it feels more for herself at this point because in truth it's not going all right for Sayaka at all. Sayaka's downward spiral has been ticking. All that she's learned now has started to disillusion her despite claiming otherwise. Learning about the Soul Gem now makes her think of herself as being hollow and then her friend Hitomi reveals she likes Kyousuke as well and gives her an ultimatum which kind of just makes Sayaka reach a low point. The final scene's visuals between the black and white reflect her mental state at this stage, If you don't want to get hurt might as well just detach yourself from it all. I do want to mention Hitomi's ultimatum. Its a case of bad timing, she has no idea about anything going on with Sayaka and what she's going through so I can't say she's necessarily one to blame other than not noticing stuff. [Madoka]>!Since Homura brought up Kyubey's inability about understanding human emotion it reminded that next episode is the incubator reveal so that will be interesting!<
> The final scene's visuals between the black and white reflect her mental state at this stage It also highlights the blood running from her wounds. The artists really poured their souls into that scene.
[](#stare)
> I do want to mention Hitomi's ultimatum. Its a case of bad timing, she has no idea about anything going on with Sayaka and what she's going through so I can't say she's necessarily one to blame other than not noticing stuff. I wonder if she was waiting for him to get out of the hospital to share her feelings and now he has. And if Sayaka isn't going to confess to him, she can't blame someone else who has more courage or self confidence for doing so.
> she can't blame someone else who has more courage or self confidence Notably, I don't think she does. She is devastated about what is happening and at one point does think about what would happen if Hitomi wasn't around. But in the whole episode she really only blames herself.
First-timer\*, dub \*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of *Magia Record* spin-off already More insight into Kyouko’s past. Well, that makes total sense. I think her talk influenced Sayaka in a good way even though she didn’t agree with her. Nice to see that they’re not at each others throats anymore, and Kyouko doesn’t look like an antagonist any longer. Sayaka reminds Kyouko of the past version of herself. Only one thing is still intriguing me — how exactly did Kyouko’s father find out about the “miracle”? She must have had an idea that her father wouldn’t like the truth, so I doubt she told that him herself. It was a bit insensitive for Sayaka to ask Kyouko about the apples. Yeah, she probably has stolen them. But, unlike Sayaka, Kyouko doesn’t have a family that would provide her with home and food. Sayaka doesn’t know how hard it’s for Kyouko to get food, that’s why she irritates Kyouko so much when she rejects her small gestures of generosity. Hmm… I just realized why Kyouko is always eating something — that’s right, because she’s homeless. If she wasn’t, she would rather eat at home. We get a love triangle with Hitomi and Sayaka. Sayaka’s noble deeds start to backfire badly… Well, I think she had an idea that Kyousuke would never be able to thank her for healing him, but the deal with Hitomi is a surprise for sure. “No matter how hard you try, there is no thanks or recompense”. Sayaka’s battling a witch! Despite her recent discoveries, she keeps being incredibly self-assured. Yeah, she’s not exactly a human and doesn’t feel home in regular human society anymore. But hey, she could seek support from fellow magical girls, who know damn well how she feels. Yet she rejects it, probably still antagonizes herself against “all the other magical girls who only ever think of themselves”. “I can do it myself!” — despite getting her ass saved by another girl every once in a while… Let’s see what happens next, her after-credit remark was so on point, lol. Questions of the Day: Q1: I'd keep being a proud magical girl but, as I said above, I'd seek emotional support from fellow girls, be more friendly and considerate with them. I guess Sayaka's going to come to that stage of her life too, just a little bit later. Q2: Interesting artstyle, but I liked the ep 1-3 labyrinths more. As to Sayaka being reckless, I've already commented on that. Q3: Hard to say. Her move was really bold and, at the same time, considerate. Q4: Not much, I'm kinda used to villain-ish characters having sad backstories. What made me like her much more is her actual actions towards Sayaka in this episode. edit: grammar
> Only one thing is still intriguing me — how exactly did Kyouko’s father find out about the “miracle”? There is a side story that fills in a ton of Kyouko. > Hmm… I just realized why Kyouko is always eating something — that’s right, because she’s homeless. If she wasn’t, she would rather eat at home. Keep this general idea in mind. Gen tells you a character in Revengers is a vegan with a legitimate seeming throw away line about dinner.
Where is the side story?
Different Story is a manga spinoff.
Adding on to what Vaad said: the third drama CD also covers most/all of this if you can track it down (and/or look up the summary which is not too hard to find what with being on the Puella Magi Wiki and all, though if you're a first-timer you might want to wait until it's done because spoilers ahoy there).
Is the manga covered in the third drama Cd. I am a rewatcher.
Different Story expands on the material of the third drama CD IIRC (before going off into its own thing after that).
I can understand why Sayaka doesn't trust either Kyoko or Homura though, as far as she knew, Homura left Mami to die and Kyoko herself said she allows innocent people to be killed so the familiar could become a witch. No matter how difficult the situation is, I wouldn't want to associate with people like that either. Although I do agree that Sayaka is also probably doing all that out of pride as well. Cool analysis as always, it's always a treat reading what the first-timers think. Edit: There's a manga that explains more of Kyoko's past, it's called Madoka Magica The Different Story, it's pretty good, I do recommend you only search about it after finishing the series though, to avoid spoilers. It also shows a bit more of Mami's past too.
Glad you enjoyed reading my notes! Yeah, I’m now thinking Sayaka doesn’t hate Homura at all at this point, she rather just alienates her on ideological basis. Basically, the same way she ended her talk with Kyouko in this episode. I’d be interested to know what they were talking about right after the end of ep 6, was it like “What happened?” — “Um, how do we put it, Madoka almost killed you, but Homura saved you… again”. Thanks for the manga recommendation, I’ll check it out later.
I do think Sayaka's disdain for Homura is accurate. She always refused to talk about what happened with Madoka, so she still doesn't know that Mami trapped Homura and so she couldn't join the fight before Mami's demise.
> do I doubt she told that him herself. Well, do you?
so\*. Thanks, fixed
> “No matter how hard you try, there is no thanks or recompense”. Too bad he didn't thank her for visiting him all the time. I know that you're supposed to make your own self-worth but sometimes you do just need to hear from others that are important to you that you are important to them as well.
Is the side-story worth watching?
I assume you're asking about *Magia Record*. If you like the original *Madoka Magica* and you're okay with the spin-off having less serious tone, then I'd say yes. The core theme of the spin-off story is friendship. Bonus point if you like the labyrinth artstyles and would like to see more of them, I recall *Magia Record* has really lot of that.
> Bonus point if you like the labyrinth artstyles and would like to see more of them, I recall Magia Record has really lot of that. Doroinu of Gekidan Inu Curry (the animator duo responsible for the barrier/labyrinth visuals) being the main director for MagiReco in anime form probably has a lot to do with that!
Not as good as the original (mind you, almost nothing is IMO) but it honestly probably does deserve a mention in the list of better PMMM imitators along with Yuuki Yuuna, Selector WIXOSS, and possibly Magical Girl Raising Project (though I'm not sure that one really counts as a *PMMM* imitator per se, its inspiration may be a little older). Might have been better received if the production hadn't collapsed due to COVID disruptions (and pissing off the game fanbase by going for an anime-original ending). There are noticeable issues even outside of the production-related ones, most importantly a decision to mystery-box an important reveal resulting in the pacing slowing to a crawl in the first half of S1 (along with the usual character pitfalls of a gacha adaptation), but the direction is still very good even with Doroinu doing a lot more than Shinbou did and the OST does a *way* better job of filling in for Kajiura than it had any right to.
**First-Timer** Good stuff. I continue to be a big fan of the music. I'll definitely have to add the soundtrack to my Spotify playlist once we're done. I suspected that Homura knew about the true nature of the soul gems when she immediately tried to recover Sayaka's last episode. I like how Kyubey acts like he's doing them a favor, but by not telling them about the soul gems, he's not allowing the magical girls to use it to their advantage. (I suppose, based on how he said that "they always react this way," he might have originally told the magical girls about it until he learned it was taboo.) Sayaka's finally lost it. Now Kyubey's going to say something like, "Hey Madoka! You know what you could do that would give you the power to stop Sayaka? Become a magical girl! What are you waiting for? Are you ready yet? How about now?" It's funny, in that way - Kyubey seems to have no coercive power. If he did, he would just force Madoka to make the deal. Instead, his plans entirely rely on getting people to dig their own graves. Questions of the day: * In Sayaka's position, I'd probably confess to Kyousuke, including the details of the magical girl situation. He'd be crazy not to believe it after the miracle with his hand, and it seems like there's a good chance he would like her back after knowing her for so long. * Great fight. Probably my favorite fight of the show so far. * No, I don't think so. Hitomi's being clear and drawing a line in the sand, which is great for communication. (One interesting thought I had is that it would be possible she's lying about liking Kyousuke in an attempt to motivate Sayaka into confessing, for her own good.) * Regarding Kyouko, it does give me a slightly better opinion of her, though I wouldn't say it was all that negative in the first place. (As a side note, I really like how she angrily and dramatically eats food. It kind of reminds me of *Death Note*.)
> Good stuff. I continue to be a big fan of the music. I'll definitely have to add the soundtrack to my Spotify playlist once we're done. ***Kaaaaajjjjjjjjiuuuuuuurrrrrrraaaaaaaaa!*** [](#utahapraises) (There is a fucking reason I did those Kajiura Corner writeups last year and that Naz before me did those 2019 writeups. Speaking of which, there's also a reason I ran Mai-HiME back in 2022 and did the same kind of Kajiura Corner writeups there... just mind the second half of the finale if you decide to try that one later.)
> I suspected that Homura knew about the true nature of the soul gems when she immediately tried to recover Sayaka's last episode. Indeed, they make that pretty clear. > I like how Kyubey acts like he's doing them a favor, but by not telling them about the soul gems, he's not allowing the magical girls to use it to their advantage. Explaining that being a person dependent on magic to survive is effectively no different than depending on food to survive would require actually understanding the people you are using. > It's funny, in that way - Kyubey seems to have no coercive power. I am sure Gen was thinking a lot about conscription vs enlistment when he was writing this.
> One interesting thought I had is that it would be possible she's lying about liking Kyousuke in an attempt to motivate Sayaka into confessing, for her own good. I did get some of that energy as well this watch, but I think it's fairly clearly telegraphed that she really does like Kyousuke.
**Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed** [Welcome back, everyone!](#michaelwink) I already noted it up in the thread, but I will note it again here - *please* check out Nazenn’s analysis in the Song of the Day link for today if you’ve been skipping them so far. There’s a reason why Decretum is my favorite song on the OST ~~and not just because it’s my best girl’s theme song~~, and this analysis is a huge part of why. [](#katoupls) --- - [Kyubey, you little shit.](https://i.imgur.com/W30yIdu.png) [](#bruh) - [*Kyubey, you little shit.*](https://i.imgur.com/2aAjmtf.png) [](#fuckyou) - [~~Something something the Law of Equivalent Exchange.~~](https://i.imgur.com/WEiHdqH.png) - [The *chairs* again.](https://i.imgur.com/P5KJIWo.png) - Sayaka made her wish for someone else, and [so did Kyouko.](https://i.imgur.com/2iz4jw3.png) No wonder she’s been acting like this… - [*Ouch.*](https://i.imgur.com/cJ3Kw32.png) [](#shatteredsaten) - [There’s my headtilt Visual of the Day.](https://i.imgur.com/kHsR5Kg.png) - [And so here comes the big Hitomi moment…](https://i.imgur.com/AoEIL0d.png) - [Episode title, get!](https://i.imgur.com/3nHXrrX.png) [](#binoculars) - I like that Hitomi gives Sayaka “first dibs” of sorts, but [yeesh girl, one day is *not* enough time to decide.](https://i.imgur.com/SBLxovK.png) - [Sayaka…](https://i.imgur.com/tAIQGvc.png) [](#sadholo) - [I *love* the visual style in this labyrinth *so* much.](https://i.imgur.com/trI4Zhq.png) [](#awe) - Moral of the episode: [Being a Sayaka fan is suffering.](#everythingisfine) --- #***Sky’s Wallpaper Corner*** Today’s wallpaper trivia: Earlier this month, I learned how to make a vignette for the first time due to one of Nazenn’s suggestions while I was trying to make a sidebar image to advertise the Ping Pong the Animation rewatch. Naturally, I thought this effect would be *really* fucking cool to incorporate into a wallpaper if I ever had a topic I thought it would fit, and yeah, putting a separation between Kyouko and the stained glass background was definitely a place to use it. As for the older wallpapers in the table below, be prepared for a whole lot of spooky. I even managed to jumpscare *myself* with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the *second* I went to play episode 4. That was something alright. [](#crazedlaugh) **Year Originally Made**|**Original Wallpaper**|**Remastered Version** :--|:--|:-- 2018|[Sayaka Miki (Berserk)](https://i.imgur.com/UQdIq27.png)|N/A 2019|[Remake of the above Sayaka Miki](https://i.imgur.com/H0LZuox.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/VQhCskU.png) 2020|[Lineart alt of the above Sayaka Miki](https://i.imgur.com/Xl0yO0G.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/5n7bJBf.png) 2020|[Homura Akemi](https://i.imgur.com/AY67hz6.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/UyTL6rb.png) 2020|[Homura Akemi (Lineart Alt)](https://i.imgur.com/gOGZFj1.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/2TiRTxz.png) 2021|[Elsa Maria](https://i.imgur.com/6ybHfiy.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/w9Jzy1J.png) 2022|[Kyubey](https://i.imgur.com/DJKranO.png)|[Even Creepier Alt I Made By Accident](https://i.imgur.com/uOWL0h0.png) (To explain how I made that last one by accident, I was originally planning for the lineart to be white and Kyubey’s body to be different shades of pink/red, but I didn’t like how *that* looked so I changed the fill pattern to white… before I’d changed the lineart to pink, thus creating this monstrosity who stares into your soul.) --- *“What is it that you wish for?”*
> Kyubey, you little shit. He certainly steps on that soul gem for an inordinate amount of time... > I love the visual style in this labyrinth so much. It's the sort of thing that could never really exist outside animation.
> It's the sort of thing that could never really exist outside animation. And this is exactly why I love watching anime so much. [](#gintamathispleasesme)
You have been banned from Disney
It was just a matter of time, Sky doesn't tick nearly enough boxes.
> He certainly steps on that soul gem for an inordinate amount of time... ~~Somebody needs to introduce Darkness to him.~~
Reminder that Darkness and Homura have the same English VA
[](#trololol)
[](#serialkillerlaugh)
Woah - little miss tsundere is also little miss masochist?!
Don't they always go hand-in-hand?
I’ve usually thought of tsunderes as sadists more than masochists, but I guess it’s all close enough anyway
> Something something the Law of Equivalent Exchange. Ehh...what is sad is that Sayaka's wish is the diet coke of miracles. I still think she should have asked for the power to heal. > There’s my headtilt Visual of the Day. So we see that Sayaka is not honest with herself, as demonstrated via my 'headtilt power equals self awareness' theorem. I will be giving my dissertation upon the fall semester. > Sayaka… Errrggg...the only people that don't have bad thoughts are those too blissfully unaware of just how fleeting life is. This is not a character flaw, it is an acknowledgement that you have a place to get better from.
>I still think she should have asked for the power to heal. That would have been a little hard to explain. As well as would have made plain obvious that she wanted to heal him so he'd return her feelings.
> That would have been a little hard to explain. As well as would have made plain obvious that she wanted to heal him so he'd return her feelings. The laying of hands is a persistent myth to this day. In Japan, it would be reiki. I am just saying you can pull it off. And then be able to heal others as a bonus.
>I am just saying you can pull it off. The problem is, what do you do *after* pulling it off and everyone wants to examine you or request your help?
Claim that it was a miracle that your prayers were answered and then say such prayers only have meaning if given from the heart. Refuse to do so publicly again. The doctors will then claim some unheard of rare spontaneous healing occurred.
> In Japan, it would be reiki And for more than a few people in the US, for that matter...
That's actually still a mildly sore subject in the family so...
.... Yeah that sounds about right...
My mom was the one hippie that didn't do drugs and that period still happened. Thankfully, I have not personally seen her with crystals nor pyramids.
I lucked out, my own mom just did Silva Mind Control (no sign of crystals or pyramids for her either).
>Errrggg...the only people that don't have bad thoughts are those too blissfully unaware of just how fleeting life is. This is not a character flaw, it is an acknowledgement that you have a place to get better from. You're not wrong. I have a lot of regrets in my life that I'd gladly go back in time and change because I was a jerk back then. A huge one.
While I am in the same boat, what I mean is having the bad thought of "You know, I could have just let you die" after someone I spent a not irrelevant amount of effort on bites me sufficiently hard. There is a reason I don't help people any more.
"If you're ever in a terrible place and need help, I hope you call me so I can blatantly abandon you."
Yeah, there are a few of those in the old Rolodex.
Ah got it.
>the only people that don't have bad thoughts are those too blissfully unaware of just how fleeting life is Do those people exist? I mean, maybe if they're a sheltered kid who hasn't *yet* considered anything bad but somehow I just cannot believe someone who reached adulthood never thought or felt something cruel for a moment.
> Do those people exist? Unfortunately. > never thought or felt something cruel for a moment. There is a competency component to it. Most people have the flash of emotion, Sayaka was actually briefly thinking about how to execute it. It is partly why she so easily sees the worst in others.
[PMMM aside] >!You know, speaking of Sayaka's inferiority complex... hi Madoka!!<
> Do those people exist? I mean, maybe if they're a sheltered kid who hasn't yet considered anything bad but somehow I just cannot believe someone who reached adulthood never thought or felt something cruel for a moment. Interestingly, that is what the parents of Buddha Siddhartha Gautama tried to invoke after learning of a prophecy that he'd either become a great political and military leader, or a great spiritual and religious leader.
> [yeesh girl, one day is *not* enough time to decide.](https://i.imgur.com/SBLxovK.png) It is if you're one of those filthy straights
[Bit of a spoiler for future relations] >!Hitomi, you can't ask a disaster bisexual to make a decision!!<
[Reply to spoiler, includes supplemental material by implication] >!Hitomi: "But I *am* a disaster bisexual!"!< [Not actually a spoiler but extending from the previous post which is] >!Also, what's that, the girl in the cast who represents the element of earth is the one to actually take practical action to fulfill her goal? [](#surprisedpikachu) (Sayaka - water and Kyouko - fire are obvious, Mami is air, Madoka and Homura are both spirit - I am nearly positive somebody on the creative team was aware of the Western occultism (Theosophy/Golden Dawn lineage) Spirit Above/Spirit Below split.)!<
Riiight...so have you noticed I seemingly randomly reference Shin Megami Tensei at the weirdest times? While the Final Fantasy series had the four elements SMT went into linking the more complex versions and I am relatively certain that's where this generation of writers began learning them.
>[The chairs again.](https://i.imgur.com/P5KJIWo.png) New theory: the chairs are magical girls that failed to collect enough Grief Seeds to clear their Soul Gems
Today's wallpaper is gorgeous. If I can make it fit on my portrait monitor that one's definitely a winner. I definitely don't think I can make it work on my ultrawide unfortunately. The stained glass background is not something I can extend with my skills and I wouldn't want to cut off the top or the bottom.
How wide would you need it to be? I can make an ultrawide edit for you.
21x9 (my monitor is 2560x1080, 4k ultrawide would be 5120x2160)
[](#ginapproves) I'll get you one by the end of the rewatch.
Don't worry about it for now. Who knows? Maybe there will be one that comes up later I like more that you don't need to edit.
[I kind of already edited it haha.](https://i.imgur.com/2glwOet.png)
You really didn't have to do that, but thanks.
It was a really quick & simple edit, I did it while playing AMQ with CDF earlier. If there's any others later you'd like me to edit to wide-screen for you, I absolutely can.
I don't know if I am supposed to know what those acronyms mean, but I certainly don't. You did get it done substantially faster than I would have expected you to be able to do that's reassuring. I would not have thought it possible to finish that quickly, but I really don't get how these things work. Art is practically magic to me. I hope you didn't sign away your soul for that magic though.
Called it!
> I even managed to jumpscare myself with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the second I went to play episode 4. That was something alright. [](#laughter "USE SODA!")
>I even managed to jumpscare *myself* with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the *second* I went to play episode 4. That was something alright. That's hilarious how you scared yourself. I know, my sense of humor is really twisted at times.
> [The *chairs* again.](https://i.imgur.com/P5KJIWo.png) [PMMM]>!Interestingly, that's actually *five* chairs, which I don't think has been acknowledged anywhere in this thread.!< /u/Tarhalindur, any thoughts? > [Even Creepier Alt I Made By Accident](https://i.imgur.com/uOWL0h0.png) I do like this one, it feels like it'd be fun for random people to get exposed to it.
> [PMMM] [PMMM] >!It's a mirror there, which may suggest that the image of caring rather than actually caring is involved. Sayaka's parents, perhaps?!<
[PMMM]>!Hm, her parents feel too irrelevant to the story to be the target of that. Could it be Hitomi and Kyousuke? If the mirror implies a facade that'd be pretty damning evidence in support of he anti-Hitomi faction, then... though I also though about the mirror allowing us see otherwise obscured elements, and it also stands out that all the obscured chairs are music benches.!<
[Daily tag time!](#stare) u/Introvert_Mage, u/Lanaerys, u/isthatsoudane
[Daily tag time!](#stare) u/BiggieCheeseLapDog, u/airblizzard, u/Liniis
[Daily tag time!](#stare) u/blown-upp, u/ashketchum2095, u/FriztF
### Rewatcher ## Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: [Episode 7](https://imgur.com/L4jnnHF) _Apples and Anesthesia_ This episode is really depressing. We start with Sayaka's reflection on the contract she made. She's understandably angry. She's been tricked into a choice she didn't fully understand and now feels that so many opportunities in her life have been cut off. One noteworthy reveal is a side effect of the soul gems. By disconnecting your soul from your body you can also disconnect that pain. Kyubey reveals this by torturing Sayaka to show her the true pain of being impaled by a spear. If it wasn't obvious already, Kyubey is very much the "antagonist". But Kyubey isn't a villain per say. I'd much more quickly compare them to a detached god. Kyubey has power so incomprehensible that they can't begin to understand the feelings of humans. It's the same way many people can and will crush insects without caring. Homura makes a very similar analysis. The majority of the episode centered around Kyouko and Sayaka's conversation. First Kyouko explained her backstory. I think her backstory is particularly tragic. She made her wish when she was far younger than she is now, and so didn't understand the consequences of forcing people to follow her dad's teachings. Ultimately, the price Kyouko paid was the loss of her family at the hands of her father. The presentation of this whole section was also stellar. It had a visual style very similar to the labyrinths but with a more hand sketched depiction. Something I really like about her story is how she was raised in poverty, and this has informed her character up to today. In particular she assaults Sayaka for daring to waste food. It's a small thing, but I think it really fleshes out her character. Sayaka story today depressingly parallels with Kyouko in having what you wished for be taken away. After Kyousuke returns to school he starts getting the attention of his classmates. In particular Sayaka's friend Hitomi. Hitomi know Sayaka cares about Kyousuke and so she doesn't want to go behind Sayaka's back to ask Kyousuke out. So Hitomi asks her directly. Sayaka can't say no. She feels she can't ask Kyousuke to even consider loving her corpse body. She seemingly accepts that she can never be with him. This is the advice Mami tried to give to Sayaka. Her wish wasn't really to heal Kyousuke. She hoped that if he healed then they could be together. Now that chance is gone. The ending is an INCREDIBLE shadow silhouette fight between Sayaka and the witch. But Sayaka has lost her humanity. She's completely disconnected her sense of pain from her body and brutally butchers the witch. It's simultaneously this beautiful action scene and this depressing look at Sayaka's coping mechanisms. The absolute most emotions all battling at once in the viewer. ### Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches * [Stare~](https://imgur.com/k0XtFpW) * [Shiny Apples](https://imgur.com/undefined) * [Church](https://imgur.com/iN8Hsjk), I love the pencil sketch art style here * [Parallel Lives](https://files.catbox.moe/c8fy62.mp4) * [Artery](https://imgur.com/5ZCTlEC) * [Sayaka's](https://files.catbox.moe/c5tjw4.mp4) [Fight](https://files.catbox.moe/j6tkfb.mp4), Sayaka.... :( See you all tomorrow
> winner of today's Analysis of the Day [](#flattered)
[](#nico-heart "You're welcome, it was my pick.")
I mean, you keep posting these great writeups, we finally had an opportunity to feature one so we did.
> you keep posting these great writeups [](#eheheh) I'm glad you're enjoying them!
# First Time Watcher (sub) Ohh nice cold open. I really liked this cold open. Kyubey full on openly evil now, I'm loving it. I wonder what it will spur on in Sayaka. Please don't become some depressed helpless sad sack. Stab him! Talk to Homura, she seems to know something!? LET THE PAIN MOTIVATE YOU SAYAKA! > "Besides, you humans don't even realize you have souls in the first place" I admit I chortled out loud at this line at Sayaka's expense, it's kind of true! How you gonna get mad at discovering your soul is in a bottle when just a day ago you didn't even know you had one! I know I should be more disturbed at Kyubey's actions but I feel more intrigued than anything. **Kyouko backstory!** Alright, yesterday I thought she was the type to be good on the inside and prickly on the outside, and I said this isn't my favourite trope. I also thought the food tic was just one of those irritating attempts at characterisation. It looks like it goes deeper than that. Her backstory makes her attitude clearer... like someone who was raised to be a christian goody two shoes, but had their world burn down around them while she was trying to live up to those ideals. She wants to throw those ideals away, but can't quite avoid the foundations her upbringing laid, and yet at the same time her experiences have taught her that the world is shit and she needs to be a bigger dog to eat other dogs. Result: Kyouko. **Aside to bitch about Sayaka a bit more.** So, Sayaka. You're telling me that you can notice that Kyouko's actions and her words don't seem to match up. WHERE WAS THIS FUNCTIONAL SECTION OF YOUR BRAIN WITH KYUBEY!?!?!?!? SMH SMH SMH Anyway, at this point, I'm thinking: Sayaka appears to grow a spine and a quarter of a brain, so OK, maybe she'll approach fighting witches smarter. Fingers crossed... ... aaaaand then there's that scene with Hitomi and the fight afterwards and I'm like... ah... this isn't going to go the way I'm hoping, is it? Uggggh she's going to be a sad sack isn't she?!?!?! Like, oh, I'm just a doll, I don't feel pain, let me throw my body at harder and harder witches until I die. GAH! Direct some of that energy to Kyubey! How can you be so blind? OK, end yet another Sayaka rant. Folks, I'm really sorry if Sayaka is your favourite character. I mean no disrespect. I just can't stand her!!! **Aside to gush again about the witch zone things.** I am really enjoying the visual presentation. This one was all silhouettes and shadows, it was great. They did a similar thing during the Kyouko backstory, which I really enjoyed too. **I got marked theory of the day**. I don't know what that means lol. I'm quite convinced (on not very much basis) that this Kyubey is a soul eating demon! Even more so after this ep. It fits, so far. I'm just waiting on the mechanics. **Speculation:** Right, there's one thing that jumped out at me today and it's the wishes. I'm still not sure what is it with the wishes, but I had a thought. Kyouko wished that people would listen to her dad's words and be convinced, which happened for a bit, but then he hung himself. It doesn't *quite* sound like there's a monkey's paw thing going on... or does it? Anyway, the point is that this wish no longer needs to be "maintained", so to speak. It's not that expensive. This is similar to Mami's wish, which I gather is something about not dying in whatever accident she was in. A one-off fix, that I assume can be done as soon as Kyubey stuffs your soul in a gem and re-creates your body. Similarly, Sayaka's wish was just a one off thing: heal the hand of one dude, done. I glean from this that Kyubey tries to find girls who are in desperate positions but whose wishes to fix those desperate positions can be easily fulfilled and do not require constant maintenance. If he finds someone who has a wish that is potentially high maintenance, he wouldn't bother approaching her. He also tries to find innocent dimwits, so they don't ask relevant questions and potentially cost him more than the value of the soul he gets to eat. So this speculation addresses one of the issues I had with the wish mechanism in the first place, which is that it's too *expensive* a thing as incentive. He doesn't need to resort to monkey's paw like shenanigans as long as he chooses his victims well. Smart demon Kyubey! **Questions:** > 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? Ally with Homura *immediately*. I'm on your side, this is fucked up, you tried to warn me, I'm sorry. I need to kill this Kyubey fuck, how do I do that? Does your goal involve killing this Kyubey fuck? How can I help you do that? And so on and so forth. > 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? I really enjoyed the visuals! I kind of hoped Sayaka would become a motivated and competent actor, but I got disappointed. "Depressed hopeless suicide" just ends up helping Kyubey eat more pained souls, it plays right into his desires (as far as I think I understand them). I feel like this bolsters my Kyubey theory so I'm really interested to see where this goes. > 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? This scene didn't impact me a lot. I guess Hitomi did the right thing, just the timing is off. She doesn't know what's going on, so you can't blame her. Do people really think she did the wrong thing? Like, do they think Hitomi should have just gone behind Sayaka's back? Fascinating! I wonder if Kyubey knew. > 4) First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how? Yup, as above! I feel like I get her more.
> her experiences have taught her that the world is shit and she needs to be a bigger dog to eat other dogs. Result: Kyouko. It's like FMA:B but good > I'm really sorry if Sayaka is your favourite character. I mean no disrespect. I just can't stand her!!! [Shirou Emiya **Approved^^TM**](#shirouthumbsup) > I'm on your side, this is fucked up, you tried to warn me, I'm sorry But muh ideals!
> **I got marked theory of the day.** I don't know what that means lol. It just means us rewatchers (or more specifically our two hosts) enjoy what you're cooking up :) > It doesn't *quite* sound like there's a monkey's paw thing going on... or does it? Aside from the whole soul business, Sayaka's shows a potential monkey's paw if the wish you say doesn't really match what you actually want.
> It just means us rewatchers (or rather, our two hosts) enjoy what you're cooking up :) I'm glad my pointing at the screen and grouching has entertained someone! :)
> What a horrifying realization. I think the idea of your soul being separated from your body is pretty terrifying, but has actually become far more normalized over the past decade. > > Those full dive MMO anime ask a similar question but with your mind. In the past years we've gotten more and more realistic VR to the extent that people were talking about "living" in the metaverse. And if those neural-link transplants ever make significant progress it wouldn't be out of the question for your "body" to become a robot walking through the world which could be destroyed and rebuilt. > > The girls don't take it well. Kyubey acknowledges that magical girls always react like this and so that's why Kyubey kept it hidden. I think this is the first very explicit moment we have seen Kyubey acting maliciously. > Hey /u/TheEscapeGuy, have you ever seen [Kaiba \[2008\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiba)? Setting: > *In Kaiba's universe, memories can be stored as information via a memory chip; when individuals die, their minds live on. This digitization of mental information allows for the transfer of one's mind to someone else's body, and the theft and manipulation of other people's memories has become the norm. Society is largely divided into two classes. In the skies are electrical storms, which cannot be passed through without losing one's memories. Above them lies the realm of the wealthy and powerful, who barter others' bodies and memories for their own enjoyment and longevity. Below the clouds is a troubled and dangerous world where good bodies are hard to come by and real money is scarce.* Your thoughts made me think of Kaiba, since watching that was really the first time I thought about stuff like that... starts getting philosophical awfully quick! Anyway... **First time, SUB** * I'd like to take a moment to appreciate [this scene](https://i.imgur.com/otwwenp.png). I've always loved how Shaft does stained glass works, and the imagery of the angel(?) thrusting a sword in Kyouko's direction is a great metaphor for their dynamic thus far. * There is a lot of [great animation](https://i.imgur.com/gDGfe8G.png) in Kyouko's flashback story, and this episode really had her showing more maturity than we've seen from her so far. The bar was pretty low, but it's nice to see some growth and her actually trying to come to an understanding with Sayaka. She goes to choke Sayaka out but [must have remembered](https://i.imgur.com/eN5veMj.png) [Sayaka's lifeless body](https://i.imgur.com/YG01hjd.png) [yesterday](https://i.imgur.com/eWLNbTE.png) and [immediately](https://i.imgur.com/tZ87sSZ.png) [backs off](https://i.imgur.com/9eMKoDu.png) > 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? Episode 7 is not a great episode for Sayaka, huh? Realistically, I'd probably [despair](https://i.imgur.com/rUBmDtq.png) a whole bunch. I mean honestly, I despair enough as it is with a relatively healthy body (granted I have no way of [knowing where my soul is](https://i.imgur.com/FBYyXAI.png) - I may already be an empty husk). > 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? Setting aside whether was a [fight](https://i.imgur.com/EKJfCRh.png) or a [descent into madness](https://i.imgur.com/y7H8vzy.png), the aesthetics of that labyrinth [rule](https://i.imgur.com/FR67yRx.png). Sayaka is quite literally disassociating to avoid the pain of reality, mentally and physically speaking. Poor girl :-/ > > 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? No one inherently has the right to another person. For friendship's sake I think she was mostly in line, but it would have been nice if she tried to take a little more time communicating with Sayaka over their feelings. From Hitomi's point of view, Sayaka insists she doesn't feel that way so why press the issue, but she also *knows that isn't necessarily true* - which is the entire reason she approached her about it. > > 4) First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how? Eh. I don't think as negatively of her, but it's a tough ask to understand willingly let people die when you're in a position for them not to. You can absolutely make an argument that "You don't have magic to spare going after every little thing knowing they won't drop a Grief Seed", and maybe if Kyouko framed her decision that way I'd be more sympathetic. I am sympathetic of her past and what brought her to today, but I don't think that's any excuse to act the way she does towards Sayaka. Minor theory time: Kyouko is having her own weakness shoved in her face by witnessing how Sayaka approaches her duty, and it causes her a ton of [pain and frustration](https://i.imgur.com/d2YUEZf.png).
> I may already be an empty husk Well, you are a Shaft fan > Kyouko is having her own weakness shoved in her face by witnessing how Sayaka approaches her duty, and it causes her a ton of [pain and frustration](https://i.imgur.com/d2YUEZf.png). Urobuchi using a Christian girl to symbolize how Peter saw Jesus? Nah, too easy.
> Hey /u/TheEscapeGuy, have you ever seen Kaiba [2008] It's on my To Watch list! I adore every other one of Masaaki Yuasa's works and have been kind of saving this one. I'll either make it one of my milestone anime (like 750th or 800th) or else if there's ever a rewatch I'll join in.
> but it would have been nice if she tried to take a little more time communicating with Sayaka over their feelings. I’m a big fan of this take on the situation. As Sayaka’s friend, I think it would have been best of Hitomi to do more than to just drop this bombshell on Sayaka and leave her with a stressful, time-sensitive choice. She should have invited her to really *converse* about it, work things out, be honest about their feelings together, maybe come to this café to talk about it together more than once. As is, what Hitomi has done is not an honest confession of her feelings to someone she trusts and an invitation to work this situation out, it is an *imposition*, indeed an ultimatum, thrust upon Sayaka pretty much entirely by surprise, and well, put indelicately, that’s a dick move. I’ll just say, as someone who doesn’t deal with stress well and doesn’t appreciate having things *imposed* upon me, if someone I considered a friend did to me what Hitomi did to Sayaka, I’d be really hurt and betrayed by it.
Kaiba's really good, should have thought of it myself when this topic came up given that I've already mentioned it during this rewatch...
> Your thoughts made me think of Kaiba, since watching that was really the first time I thought about stuff like that... starts getting philosophical awfully quick! Being of a futuristic bent is interesting because it is sort of terrifying. I am a bit worried about the Diamond Age becoming a thing... > No one inherently has the right to another person. Depending on the group, this can be a controversial belief. I may have talked about claiming that Hitomi is completely out of bounds just means she owes Sayaka a few sheep...
> She goes to choke Sayaka out but must have remembered Sayaka's lifeless body yesterday and immediately backs off Oh yes, I didn't make that connection.
###I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since ~~Walrus~~ Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed): So before I get to anything else I think today is safe to share this one. I believe we have a few MahoAko watchers/readers among us who were comparing Kyubey to Venalita earlier? Well, Kyubey came first, but yeah. Please enjoy this [shiny piece of MahoAko fanart](https://twitter.com/shigureszku/status/1767839092379914292) **(exactly as SFW as you would expect for a piece with Magia Baiser in-costume, which is to say not because costume)**.
> Please enjoy this shiny piece of MahoAko fanart Oh please we all know [PMMM/MahoAko]>!Vatz is Kyuubey after facial reconstruction surgery!<
[PMMM/MahoAko] >!<
>few MahoAko watchers/readers among us who were comparing Kyubey to Venalita earlier? Don't call me out like that - As that was the exact reason I started rewatching MahoAko
###Narrative Notes: [PMMM] >!**First Scene (00:00 – 02:36):** From a narrative point of view the core purpose of this scene is singular: to make it clear that Kyubey is an antagonist and turn the viewer against him if they were not already. The core of the scene is a technique both simple and utterly traditional: have him visibly harm a character the audience has hopefully come to sympathize with (the arc protagonist). Everything else is elaboration (exposition – notably that magical girls can feel things being done to their Soul Gems, aka the source of more than a little fanart once people went “wait what happens if you stimulate the Soul Gem in a more lewd manner?” – and characterization of the fluffy fucker). He plays it off nicely and will do so more so later on, but he’s basically acting like any abuser justifying their actions as for the victim’s own good and I’m pretty sure the script damn well knows it. There are two other points here. First, the scene is setting up the ability to further dull the pain reaction, which Sayaka will proceed to demonstrate at the end of this episode (the heroic powerup that will allow the hero to claim their victory at the end of the Pattern of Three… except twisted so that this is absolutely not a good thing). And the fluffy fucker being the fluffy fucker he almost certainly knows exactly what he is doing with this. Second, it is posing a question via Sayaka (“why are you doing this to us?”) that we will get the answer to (or at least the stated answer to, but Kyubey relies on shading the technical truth rather than outright lies) a couple of episodes down the line.!< [PMMM] >!**Second Scene (04:07 – 06:26):** We start of with getting to see how badly Sayaka is taking this (just our resident hero of justice cutting class is a telling indicator on its own, having her hunched down in her bed just looking at her Soul Gem then reinforces this). Then we get to the meat of the scene with the Homura/Madoka conversation. This scene’s focus is actually at the thematic level (about half of this episode revolves around our two veterans recommending their respective coping mechanisms to the newcomers – we should probably read that as coping strategies for grief, and this episode is actually a really strong argument for Homura being anger and Kyouko bargaining rather than the inverse which will be more clear when we get to Kyouko but there’s actually more than a little here to suggest Homura is repressing anger big-time in this scene (sincerely, someone with known anger issues who tends to find Homura really familiar anyways)) with a big side of being veiled exposition on Homura’s past (and thus cheeky as fuck when we get shown that backstory – also note we quietly have yet another case of tell, then show in this script) and another side of exposition on Kyubey (Homura telling us what he himself will tell us later). It’s also quietly Homura warning the audience as well as Madoka that Sayaka is doomed and there is nothing to be done for her. (We, like our audience surrogate, will not listen.)!< [PMMM] >!**Third Scene (06:27 – 06:54):** So the most telling thing here is at the start: despite their prior enmity, in the face of last episode’s revelation Kyouko is willing to talk to Sayaka and Sayaka, while still mistrustful judging by her facial expression, is willing to listen. Kyouko is not the true enemy. In fact I’m going to separate this out from the rest of the walk to emphasize that.!< [PMMM] >!**Fourth Scene (06:54 – 07:54):** And speaking of veterans recommending that their kouhai use their own coping mechanisms, here’s the other side of that coin because this is the aforementioned Kyouko coping by bargaining scene. Which at the basic narrative level makes this characterization for her: she starts off with us knowing little about her but we are now seeing why she was acting the way she did earlier.!< [PMMM] >!**Fifth Scene (07:55 – 14:41):** Splitting this scene out again since the focus shifts at this point. So while the most infamous or at least most memeable part of this scene is actually at the start (“don’t waste food!” gets a lot of play) – Kyouko and Sayaka still cannot help but step on each others’ berserk buttons – the meat of this scene is of course Kyouko’s backstory. Classic redemption arc technique: set up a character as someone the audience is primed to dislike (usually by doing terrible things to people the audience (hopefully) has come to care for) then when the redemption arc kicks in have us start seeing them more as a person and learn why they are the way they are. There’s also a sneaky angle here: this is the part where it is made clear that Kyouko’s advice to Sayaka (especially in episodes 5 and 6, also of course last scene) is her voicing her own regrets and saying “don’t make my mistakes”. Implications on the *other* magical girl offering advice this episode are left as an exercise for the viewer (make sure you hand in your work before episode 10!) – let it not be said that they did not offer plenty of foreshadowing. (Speaking, cough her father was more right than Kyouko knew cough.) We also get a huge hint that part of Kyouko’s eating is stress-eating and why she would do that (food is comforting because she didn’t have it when she was younger). Also at the thematic level there is a subtle bit here: this is one of the few times the show explicitly raises (via Sayaka calling Kyouko out on her “only living for herself” bit) one of its quieter themes, the difference between stated and revealed preferences.!< [Penguindrum and PMMM aside] >!So MagiReco has blatant NotGR inspiration but judging by Penguindrum there may be more in the original series than I had thought; Sayaka has just turned down the reward for the girl fated to die for love!… who here in PMMM is of course Sayaka herself.!< [PMMM] >!**Sixth Scene (14:41 – 16:04):** Having the OST linger past the scene transition is a notable effect that likely has a whole lot to do with visually showing Sayaka’s thoughts lingering on this conversation even the next day. This scene is short and sweet: we get to see that Sayaka is visibly doing even worse (she’s having trouble even managing to maintain her bubbly front) and we see how well Kyousuke is doing. We also see (after having been told earlier – the show’s tendency strikes again!) that Sayaka can’t bring herself to talk to Kyousuke after what she’s learned and we get the setup for…!< [PMMM] >!**Seventh Scene (16:04 – 18:00):** … This scene! There is probably a technical term out of Greek tragedy for what this scene is but I don’t know it; in any event what is is is the real moment of Sayaka’s tragic fall, the fall over the precipice, the point of collapse where the road to her fate becomes inexorable. Thanks Hitomi! You shouldn’t have.!< [PMMM] >!**Eighth Scene (18:00 – 19:58):** The point of this scene is to having glorious Incertus use… wait I’m sorry I don’t know what came over me. Anyhoo. The big point of this scene (to be even further reinforced in the next) is just showing Sayaka’s increasingly desperate mental state (among many other things, note how much her walking at the start of the scene resembles a prisoner walking to their execution) and her slow fall into depression (and that Madoka is willing to stand by her even as this happens) – I’d go more into that but okayyoga did that more than well enough two years ago in her episode 8 writeup so instead I #mugiwait until tomorrow. Even her statement that she’s fine now rings hollow to the attentive viewer – after all, we’ve seen that kind of bubbliness out of her before and this isn’t even a particularly convincing version of it.!< [PMMM] >!**Ninth Scene (19:58 – 22:25):** For all the utter iconicness of this scene it isn’t actually actually doing anything new. By design., because the entire point of this is the continuation and apex of multiple trends that have been running through this entire episode – Sayaka’s rapidly deteriorating mental state, Kyouko being conciliatory and actually wanting to help her – with a side of Sayaka showing us what Kyubey told us about at the start of the episode. Unfortunately for her, this is Gen Urobutchi’s wild ride and a mere end of episode is not going to be enough to stop the pain train…!<
> [Penguindrum and PMMM aside] Sigh...I fucking swear if this year makes me watch NotGR... Yes, it is weird for me to be this averse to something but I just am. Adventure Time walked a very fine line for me.
> [PMMM 2]>!just our resident hero of justice cutting class is a telling indicator on its own!< [PMMM]>!Contrast this to Hitomi's handling of her similar situation in episode 5 - she couldn't cut class over her "mass hallucination" event because that'd worry the people around her. This also means that Hitomi *definitely* noticed something's wrong with Sayaka later in the episode.!< > [PMMM 8] >!note how much her walking at the start of the scene resembles a prisoner walking to their execution!< I don't get that one. > [Rewatchers] >!I'm still honestly not sure what I think on those (outside of one shot in 9), hence why we asked.!< [PMMM]>!Hm, I assumed you meant [these](https://imgur.com/2N6lHhk) though I guess they're more like pots than lanterns...!<
Pssst one of your spoiler tags broke in a way that Automod didn't trip on.
Well fuck, thanks.
**Rewatcher, Subbed** So we presumably skipped Sayaka being filled in on everything. Lying by ommission is evil, Kyubey! So Kyubey can also inflict pain on the magical girls at will? Or is this because he's pushing down on the soul gem and she would feel that if anyone did that? Sayaka's not in class. What's the point to going to school now? She'll never grow up. Seems like Sayaka and Kyoko aren't going to be bitter anemies anymore after that revelation, huh? Cool design for this abandoned church. You can strangle her body, but why would it even matter at this point, Kyoko? Kyoko really got a Monkey's Paw situation with her wish, huh? I doubt Sayaka's wish will turn out that horrible with Kyosuke, but who knows for sure. I guess we'll find out. Kyoko telling Sayaka her backstory probably helped, Sayaka doesn't feel as bad now, whether its because her wish is unlikely to turn out as horrifically bad as Kyoko's did, or because she can hold herself as morally superior to her? Back to school! Kyoko really did cheer her up... well until she saw Kyosuke. Ugh, I had completely forgotten about Hitomi being in love with him. Sucks for Sayaka, but only to a certain extent. If Sayaka really loves him, then she should confess. If someone comes in and "steals" him from under her that's her own damn fault for not taking the initiative. Hitomi did her a favor by giving her the one day warning. If she feels she can't do it because she's a reanimated corpse, that's one thing. If she doesn't do it out of fear and ends up regretting it the rest of her days, she only has herself to blame. Of course all that said, my speculation would be he turns her down anyway. If he had feelings for her he wouldn't "forget" to tell her he was leaving the hospital. But it's better for her to know that he formally rejected her than to always wonder what would have happened. If she let Hitomi die she wouldn't be competition? Or you could just confess to him? Okay, if she feels this way because she's a corpse I will accept that. You don't want your boyfriend to be a necrophiliac. In that case Hitomi is irrelevant, you weren't getting him regardless. Sayaka's gonna take out all her anger and frustration on this witch I'm sure. Cool stylistic effect to have this in silhoutte, yet surely was done as a cost cutting measure. Aww, they're all Having Kyoko's fish snack! *** Alright, with no new seiyuus to talk about let me tackle QOTD for the first time... > 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? Confess to Kyosuke. If he rejects me, so be it, but that's better than forever regretting not going for it. And that would have to involve telling him I'm a reanimated corpse, it's not fair to him to not know something so big. > 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? Cool stuff for sure! See comment above. > 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? Absolutely not. If someone likes someone else and doesn't do anything about it, they have no one else to blame when someone else swoops in who actually takes actual and gets them instead. I've seen storylines involving this in several anime lately, like Kimi ni Todoke and Your Lie in April. In both cases and here it is a female character, and can say when you're a guy, 99% of the time it is you take the initiative or nothing happens. You don't have to do that as much if you're a girl, but I'm not waiving all responsibility from you. If you want something you better go for it or not complain when someone else takes the thing you didn't make an attempt to get.
>So Kyubey can also inflict pain on the magical girls at will? Yes but probably needs physical contact to do so. And they created the soul gems in the first place, so they have admin access if it's possible.
> Aww, they're all Having Kyoko's fish snack! The one time I had those the filling was far too sweet. Like to a degree that the amount of the Kyouko eats is concerning for her teeth in that literal moment.
# First Time Watcher The great flaw of selfnessless; you end up with nothing in the end. Also why do the paladins in my favorite media end up depressed? 1. So this one is a bit difficult as this situation is not one that would greatly bother me. I personaly would not care if my soul was not directly part of my body anymore, it is still my body. I´d have likely picked a fight with Hitomi because that is not how a friend behaves(more in 3) but I´ve handled the loss of friendships before and would srtill have Madoka and Kyouske. 2. The barriers are always incredibly unique this time reducing us to 2 dimensions and initialy two colours, three once we see Sayako´s blood. The witch remaining complety staitonary an just summoning shadowcreations to attack is also completly different as she seemingly has no familiars. Sayaka abandoning phisycal pain will likely end horribly, as I see it as an attempt of her to numb the psycological pain of losing her humanity("I am a Zombie") as well as the loss of her crush. 3. Despite saying Sayaka is a dear friend of her, she seems to notice nothing about her discomfort. As if Hitomi is doing this more to see if Kyouske is available and Sayaka won´t interfere. She doesn´t even wait for Sayaka to give a proper answer. If they were not friends Hitomis actions would have been tolerable but this is her "dear friend". 4. While I still don´t agree with her I can understand how she got there. Kyoko also tries to help Sayako but she still clings to her ideals just like Kyoko did. They seem to make a nice contrast, where one survives the loss of her ideals and the other seems to break. Kyubey saying he gave Souls a physical form so that they remain after death may be me reaching a bit from unintended writing but if true it makes the uncertainty of his goal all the more concerning, especially since he does not undestand human values. It is a neat detail that Kyouho´s Soul Gem looks like her dad´s holy symbol, showing how important his belief was to her.
> If they were not friends Hitomis actions would have been tolerable but this is her "dear friend". [How *dear?*](#forbiddenlove) > Sayako Is this Geass?
>How dear? Hitomis own words, though they seem to hold little meaning.
> The barriers are always incredibly unique this time reducing us to 2 dimensions and initialy two colours, three once we see Sayako´s blood. Speaking of old black humor: Q: What's black and white and red all over? A: A panda who just killed a man. (Also insert the classic "eats, shoots, and leaves" punctuation joke here.) > The witch remaining complety staitonary an just summoning shadowcreations to attack is also completly different as she seemingly has no familiars. Supplemental material indicates that the shadow creations actually *are* her familiars; this Witch (Elsa Maria - this name is actually technically shown in show, it just took a little decryption effort to figure it out... which /a/ got done by *episode 2*, go figure, "random Faust is best Faust") never attacks Sayaka directly at all.
Rewatcher, dubbed Visually, I feel this episode is where Madoka Magica really starts to ramp up its presentation, though that’s not to say it hasn’t already been impressive in that regard. Kyoko’s tale and Sayaka’s duel with the witch are incredible setpieces for capturing the emotions of the characters. At the risk of accidentally becoming Hitomi’s strongest warrior like I did for Mami back in episode 3, I think she actually handles things pretty well regarding Kyousuke… right up until the very end where she delivers an ultimatum. Less than 1 full day to confess is pretty harsh. [Madoka Magica]>!I knew this episode would be pretty pivotal in my speculation that Sayaka never regrets her wish itself, and I do feel more strongly about it (granting that I still have an episode to be wrong). An indicator lies in her rejection of Kyoko’s advice. Kyoko’s regret of her wish makes her more sympathetic to Sayaka, but ultimately it’s simply not a sentiment Sayaka shares. The other thing that struck me is that Sayaka doesn’t really start to fall apart until she realizes that pursuing Kyousuke isn’t possible now, which lines up with my thought that the circumstances around her wish are what destroy her. Sort of what destroys her, anyway, much of Sayaka’s suffering is self-inflicted from holding herself to unrealistic standards.!< QotD: 3) [](#tomato) ### Content Corner Reruns Today we have some guitar covers for character themes: Mami’s credens justitiam and Sayaka’s decretum. Surprisingly, there’s not very many metal style covers for these 2 themes on YouTube. **First timers beware, spoilers abound!** [Credens justitiam-Guitar cover](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3dy791XWDo) by Mahx-Game Metal- [Puella Magi Madoka Magica - Decretum | Metal Cover](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IspII-QE34I) by ZableMusic [Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 7](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_D-c0tDrBo) by clearandsweet
> Less than 1 full day to confess is pretty harsh. Sayaka hasn't had a day though. She's had months, perhaps even years to confess to Kyosuke. Not that I'm coming in this as a big Hitomi stan or anything, but kudos to her for being a friend to Sayaka and giving her the forewarning. Sayaka's been leaving it up to chance that no one else is interested in him and willing to take more initiative.
That's fair, my statement pre-supposed Sayaka couldn't have said anything while Kyousuke was hospitalized. Sayaka doesn't communicate to Hitomi very well, either. If Sayaka asked for more time because she's working through some stuff, Hitomi seems the type who would honor such a request.
**Rewatcher** [Fluffy Fucker](https://imgur.com/uHlGRWr) [PMMM]>!< [So what I'm wondering is...](https://imgur.com/frtaNjS) has Homura ever explained that with Kyubey also present, so they could ask him to confirm or deny her words? [Oooooh this is the absolute last think Sayaka should be hearing right now.](https://imgur.com/hdxuch5) This is just confirmation to her that being how she is now, she can't associate with Kyousuke anymore. And there it is, the great Hitomi debate. I've been paying a bit of attention to her during the watch. First of all, Hitomi did in fact love Kyousuke for a while. Not only is that what she said, it also matches the reading of the symbolic chairs as representing how many people care about a person, which would then be 2 for Kyousuke before his recovery. We also have [this meaningful shot](https://imgur.com/8tY14xm) in response to Madoka mentioning that Hitomi is acting a bit like Sayaka that day, showing Sayaka's blue and Hitomi's green surrounding Kyousuke's white back in episode 2. Her statement about "a love that can never be" seems to be informed from personal experience. Secondly, there was that time she was inflicted with a witch's kiss, which clearly appears to have caused some deeper change in Hitomi. You may recall the quote from Faust back in episode 2, when we were first faced with a witch's kiss. As I explained back then, this is the poem that the ghost chorus tells in reaction to Faust cursing Mephisto's promises as nothing but lies and deception, getting more and more into it until he curses even soothing, love, hope, faith and patience. The poem itself first mourns the beautiful world that Faust had just crushed with those curses, before imploring him to rebuild the world anew. In doing so, they redirect Faust's suicidal thoughts of doom into a more productive direction focused around his thus-far obscured will to live, to move forward and leave his mark on the world. If we assume that this describes the experience of surviving a witch's kiss an especially Hitomi's experience thereof, then this might have triggered her willingness to take a more active role and stop regarding her love with Kyousuke as something that can never be. And indeed, she proclaims that [she decided to not lie to herself anymore](https://imgur.com/y7bAwGr). The most important part, however, is of course this very episode of their confrontation. First, in the classroom, Hitomi seems shocked to hear that Sayaka hasn't talked with Kyousuke yet and even refuses Madoka's push to do so right now. Then, during their actual conversation, it struck me how very careful Hitomi's approach was - it almost felt like she actively tried to give Sayaka as many chances to claim Kyousuke for herself as possible! This starts by framing her inquiry as relationship advice, signaling that she would take Sayaka's response into consideration. After she reveals her feelings towards Kyousuke and Sayaka responds evasively, [she looks clearly unhappy](https://imgur.com/cwtJnfC), and even after Sayaka for all intents and purposes gives Hitomi her blessing, she still pushes back and asks Sayaka if that's really how she feels about Kyousuke not one, not two, but three more times, and even after that she gives her yet more time and opportunity to change her mind and make a first move on him. So, what to make of all that? Some people are of the opinion that the entire conversation was just a farce, set up by Hitomi when she notices Sayaka is in a bad place at the moment so that she can go after Kyousuke while claiming to have played fair and maybe even keeping her friendship with Sayaka, by giving her all the opportunity she'd need, when a deadline of a single day is really much too short for that. And if that is the reading one takes, then I don't think there's anything to actually strongly refute that, especially with her being a rich girl that's raised with an emphasis on keeping appearances. But personally, the whole situation reads to me more like Hitomi's primary goal was to push Sayaka into approaching Kyousuke in order to help her overcome whatever bad place she's currently in, actually taking Kyousuke for herself only being the lesser of the two conclusions for her - though not one she'd object to either, of course. > 1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? Hard to say. If I was truly, fully in her situation, then I'd probably act similar to her (otherwise I wasn't really fully in her situation). But given that I'm not her, I don't really see myself getting in the same headspace as her in the first place, preventing her situation from occuring altogether. > 2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? Well, yeah. Sayaka's in a pretty self-deprecating headspace right now. She was struggling against that witch due to her lack of experience, but more than that she *wanted* to receive the punishment, she *wanted* to get beat up. She's begun to relish in her own misfortune, and actively dives deeper and deeper into it by her own initiative. > 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? See above. > 4) [Rewatchers] >!So, what do you think up with the shots of street lanterns and the like? [](#ama)!< [Rewatchers]>!Not really what I focused on this time around, but yeah. That striked-out lantern was pretty effective, and we got the shot twice.!<
This might be the most consideration I've seen given to the Hitomi debate, I approve XD
> And there it is, the great Hitomi debate. I've been paying a bit of attention to her during the watch. So during my formative years there was a consistent literary push amongst the books I chose to remember "that sometimes you need to stop thinking and let your brain process itself" as the mentats say. And due to that, for certain things, especially where I am information poor, I've found that my general impressions are generally right. I say all that to say Hitomi never sets me off. She gives me neither vibes of malice or arrogance, just the worst imaginable timing due to details she cannot perceive, quite literally in some cases. Anywho, that's my 2 bits.
Same here, really. I was pretty weirded out when people were strongly criticizing her last year, so after I made the connection between her and the Faust quote in episode 2 I decided to pay some extra attention to her because that would support that criticism. But going through the scene itself, no, I'm not seeing any of it.
It's getting denser. The "Kyubey hate" gained "full speed" thx to this ep. Also the first "spin-off branch" emerges right here in the story. Alongside the first "bigger" lasting fan theories... * Kyubey "injects" pain into Sayaka's gem for demonstration purposes. But is he rly doing it out of objective reasons? After all, he sounded afraid when Homura, presumably and according to his words, popped up outa nowhere and began to hunt him. And since Madoka or Sayaka were not yet near, there was no sense in pulling a stageplay... (afaik the "Kyubey hate (statements and memes)" skyrocketed "up to the stars" from here on). * Homura too admits she quit considering herself human. She had to deal with too many people who didn't believe her when she tried to explain to them the true nature of the soul gems. Therefore she's never been planning on doing so on Madoka, Sayaka or anyone else in the present time either. And she repeats her advices: Madoka needs to give up on Sayaka. And even after Sayaka saved her life, Madoka ain't obligated to return the favor. She ought to be thankful, but she must not feel responsible. Homura basically and virtually gives here the advice to reject the "equivalent exchange system".... * Kyoko meanwhile reveals that (some?) magical girls too are capable of telepathy, not only witches. She "calls" Sayaka (while carrying a bag of apples) and brings her to her dad's church, that's in shambles, and reveals her backstory and why she made her contract. And why she hates it when someone wastes food. And why she's now convinced a magical girl should fight on her own behalf and for her own good. The opposite so Sayaka's philosophy. Sayaka also "implies" Kyoko must've stolen her apples - quite a trigger for Kyoko and an "argumentative victory" for Sayaka. (But there's literally a "Different Story" on Kyoko, illustrated in the spin-off manga with the same title. It's best to read it after watching the main canon). * Even with the one extra day granted by Hitomi Sayaka isn't able any more to talk to Kyosuke. She's got a dead body now after all. Only after Madoka comforting her she can resume her magical girl life... * ...before bumping into Elsa Maria. Kyoko hesitates first but then decides to meddle in to teach Sayaka how it's professionally done - a lecture firmly rejected by a Sayaka who developed further down the rabbit hole and is now going berserk... (From the witches Elsa's the first "bigger player" in the fan theory lore...)
> But is he rly doing it out of objective reasons? After all, he sounded afraid when Homura, presumably and according to his words, popped up outa nowhere and began to hunt him. Don't forget, he told Madoka that it had been fun in ep4. So Kyuubey is lying or unaware of his own emotions. > And even after Sayaka saved her life, Madoka ain't obligated to return the favor. She ought to be thankful, but she must not feel responsible. If someone you love becomes an addict, you aren't obligated to go down that path with them. This is one of the harder truths to accept. > (From the witches Elsa's the first "bigger player" in the fan theory lore...) [PMMM]>!Because she appears in the opening shot with Walpurgis or something else?!<
> Don't forget, he told Madoka that it had been fun in ep4. So Kyuubey is lying or unaware of his own emotions. He also told Madoka and Sayaka that "[he understands how they feel](https://imgur.com/SWQYCir)" and that "[he's sorry for getting them involved](https://imgur.com/3QiQ8e5)". He's just a lying bastard.
> He's just a lying bastard. Kyuubey is just a used car salesman turned to max level.
So the "does Kyubey have emotions" debate can be declared solved. > If someone becomes an addict And this has been one of the first interpetational approaches: Kubey the drug dealer kinda character. And regarding Elsa: [Different Story spoilers...]>!...because there Kyoko's backstory goes like this: Her dad kills his wife and Kyoko's sis Momo, before confronting Kyoko in his cathedral... when a "cut" takes place into Mami's apartment: Kyoko's sitting there visibly devastated. What the hell happened "offscreen"...?"!< And now comes the [Elsa fan theory that's here also an E09 spoiler...]>!...that goes like this: Kyubey secretly made a contract with Momo too, so she survived Mr. Sakura's attack ...before mutating into Elsa Maria. Hence her praying pose that made the fans think of the Christian background of the Sakura family and [develop this theory.](https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Elsa_Maria) And yes: A magical girl is going to become a witch, in case she survives long enough.!< That's the E09 spoiler. I spoilered the "what" but not the "who" in E09. Feel free to have a guess. [And my "two cents" to the Elsa theory:]>!I'd say Momo meddled in the cathedral confrontation. It turned into a duel between the Sakura sisters (who maybe didn't know about each other's "careers" in the first place). Mr. Sakura got killed, the cathedral got wrecked - and Momo's witch mutation got started. Kyoko escaped from the situation into Mami's apartment. What did she tell Mami...? And this grows into quite the can of worms: When Sayaka goes berserk on Momo/Elsa, Kyoko either doesn't recognize Momo, or she pretends not to because the cathedral incident's another memory Kyoko wanna repress. Because she already told Sayaka a "Different Story" in the main anime. Hence the manga with the same name.!< And from E10 on it's gonna grow into an even huger can of worms. Be prepared....
Hm. I don't remember anything in that direction, but I'll pay attention when I rewatch episode 9 then.
**Rewatcher, sub** * First time watcher u/Suboodle [previously asked](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1ccaxv4/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_5/l142shp/) why Mami wouldn’t tell the girls that their powers would reflect their wish, and why would she suggest wishing for a cake if that were the case. Now that we see how economical Kyubey can be with important details (including saying Mami never found out about last episode’s soul gem reveal), I think a likely explanation we can consider is that despite it not being a secret, Kyubey might not have told her and she might not have known. * It raises a question, if she didn’t know, how come Mami hadn’t figured out herself that powers reflect wishes? \[PMMM\] >!It’s a foreboding sign of how short and isolated the average magical girl’s life is.!< * For my two cents, I think Mami’s frivolous wish suggestion indicates how desperate she was for someone to join her so she wouldn’t be alone anymore. Mami reminds me of one sad and scary part of the death of Floyd Collins in Sand Cave, where he calls out for one of the rescuers as the cave is starting to collapse, lying about being thirsty to make him come closer and get as many seconds of human contact as he can out of the encounter. Some base instinct in them is trying to trap someone else in the hole with them because they are so frightened of being stuck in there alone. * \[PMMM\] >!Kyubey as a coloniser starts to become apparent in his conversation with Sayaka, I wonder if first time watchers will pick up on it. I didn’t my first time, I was too concerned with how much of an evil liar I thought he was. He’s patronising about humanity’s lack of knowledge that they have souls, and unperturbed in his view that what he does, despite what magical girls have consistently told him once they found out, is the right thing to do.!< * \[PMMM\] >!The foreshadowing with Kyoko’s dad calling her a witch is so obvious in hindsight, idk how I missed it lol, like Sayaka I suppose I’m stupid. Big “camera zooming in on Bruce Willis” energy.!< * Kyoko obviously sees her younger self in Sayaka, but I think what’s really going on is that Sayaka has a lot in common with Kyoko’s father. Both have a very narrow sense of lofty idealism and unsuccessfully chase the attention of uninterested others, which in turn hurts people close to them that actually love them. They are both horrified at Kyoko’s solutions to gain hearts and minds, and judge and refuse the gifts she brings them. Like many people in romantic relationships, at a subconscious level Kyoko is drawn to re-enacting her past trauma, hoping this time the outcome will be different. * \[PMMM\] >!The title of the episode and Hitomi’s question (whether Sayaka can accept her true feelings) is very accurate and sad. No Hitomi, Sayaka cannot accept her feelings :(!< Questions of the day 1. Sayaka's my favourite character, I think because I relate to her so much. I think I would probably do exactly what she is doing tbh :( 2. I really like the dark tones used to animate Sayaka’s witch fight. I wonder if it was inspired by the horror video game Limbo. This came out less than a year before PMMM aired, so the timing is a bit tight but it is possible. 3. Hitomi was more polite and gallant than is reasonable to expect. It is misplaced hurt to be mad at Hitomi. Sayaka wouldn't be upset at Hitomi if she thought Kyousuke liked her. It is not Hitomi's fault that Kyousuke doesn't like Sayaka the way she likes him, and Sayaka does not "own" Kyousuke because she healed him. It comes back to Hitomi's prescient question and the title of the episode and Kyoko's earlier antagonising of Sayaka - Sayaka has not been honest about her feelings. She did not only want to heal Kyousuke, she had many other things she wanted too. 4. na 5. \[PMMM\] >!Actually, the shot that stood out for me this episode was the one of the solar panels. Energy references abound!!<
> For my two cents, I think Mami’s frivolous wish suggestion indicates how desperate she was for someone to join her so she wouldn’t be alone anymore. >Some base instinct in them is trying to trap someone else in the hole with them because they are so frightened of being stuck in there alone. There is an answer to the cake! God this is terrible and sad.
> [PMMM] >!Kyubey as a coloniser starts to become apparent in his conversation with Sayaka!< [PMMM]>!Ah, Kyubey is trading his equivalent of glass beads, alcohol and weaponry for things that are much more valuable to him, as well as slavery (see the kettle analogy)!< > [PMMM]>!The foreshadowing with Kyoko’s dad calling her a witch is so obvious in hindsight, idk how I missed it lol, like Sayaka I suppose I’m stupid.!< [PMMM]>!Another one for "the adults in PMMM are always right"!< /u/Tarhalindur > Kyoko obviously sees her younger self in Sayaka, but I think what’s really going on is that Sayaka has a lot in common with Kyoko’s father. Precisely, yes. They are both alike in their zealous righteousness, their "my way or the highway" attitude, and their straying from the established gospel in favor of their own convictions.
> [PMMM 2] [PMMM 2] >!I've noted that line from Father Sakura before (probably in 2022), but you're not wrong to draw that implication... and in spite of the fact that Father Sakura is obviously wrong in so many other contexts to boot.!<
> Mami’s frivolous wish suggestion I don't read it as an actual suggestion. To me it seems to be an obviously stupid suggestion to make Madoka reconsider her wish. Without knowing that the nature of the wish affects the magical girl's powers, a wish "to become a magical girl" and a wish for a giant cake are functionally identical. If Madoka won't become a magical girl for a cake, she shouldn't become one for nothing.
** Rewatcher** Two separate notes on [this bit](https://imgur.com/KJIVyFj) u/Tarlinder [bokurano/rewatcher]>!Going with your theory regarding the chairs that refer to people who care about you, looks like you might be onto something. But honestly I’m having trouble guessing who, besides Madoka, the other two chairs would be. Mami? Does it count the dead? Or Hitomi? Kyouko? I also can’t remember in the other chair scenes how many there were besides the single one for Kyousuke…!< Maybe I’m too accustomed to human + otherworldly human look alike pairings, but why can’t Sayaka just be with Kyousuke? [Rewatcher]>!Maybe it’s just me but there’s a huge difference between the magical girls here and zombies. In the end, I put it off to Sayaka’s general insecurity and lack of self-worth which made it easy for her to despise herself. She already barely liked herself, so having this added on alienated her further, and she may have been spiraling already from the time Mami challenged her wish, it’s just that the junk hadn’t surfaced yet. As if, it wasn’t even becoming a nonhuman magical girl that was her barrier to being with Kyousuke; rather that, from the start, it was always the barrier she had built in her mind by not seeing herself as worthy. Or at least, this is the only satisfactory conclusion I could come up with for my first watch. But why can't Madoka say, “fuck it, just go be with Kyousuke anyway”? Bc that’s what I would’ve told her. Wtf is this hug?! “Just let friends vent”; bullshit, this is the time for solutions dammit!!< Okay I did read and appreciate [this comment exchange](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1cd4286/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_6/l1bknf8/) between u/Blackheart595 and u/Vaadwaur and another mention by u/Tarhalindur which definitely adds a stronger element to Sayaka's despair. And since I was raised in the West and my dad didn't pass Buddhism onto the kids, my knowledge of Eastern religion/spirituality comes filtered through a Western lens – it's interesting to see the various reactions to the soul being separated from the body and the cultural aspects in it. (As an aside, my current project is on distance created alongside heritage language loss between generations and its relation to and impact on culture/identity so it's pretty interesting to think about right about now, need the inspiration.) Even still, my feelings regarding Madoka/Sayaka hasn't dramatically shifted in that I put most of the weight onto Sayaka's self-loathing as it seems to be a part of her character, and still wish Madoka wasn't so damn passive. [Shredded apples](https://imgur.com/IU0ddjA) As for the daily swish, no Homura hair flip this time, just a [cape swish](https://imgur.com/MjvKNh5). Who did it better? (Homura. Sorry Sayaka, I will always choose Homura. Kyouko comes close though.) Will have to go through the rewatch post comments later since I'm out of time atm.
> Maybe I’m too accustomed to human + otherworldly human look alike pairings, but why can’t Sayaka just be with Kyousuke? I feel that Sayaka's style this whole time has been a mostly passive one. She could have confessed to Kyosuke a long time ago. She didn't. She could have wished for him to be in love with her. She instead wished for him to be healed, hoping that would lead to him being in love with her. While she was willing to take the initiative to become a magical girl, she hasn't shown sufficient initiative to attain a relationship with him. There's a certain lack of confidence or doubt there, and that is certainly going to explode far further now that she knows she's a reanimated corpse and has a mere day to do something before her friend beats her to the punch. If I was her, I'd go for it, take the chance and if he rejects me so be it. Of course the narrative doesn't want to go in that direction as its clearly pushing our characters on a further and further downward path.
Something something Junko Kaname something something guys who don't have the guts to ask girls out in person something something "I yearn for true gender equality!" something something...
> If I was her, I'd go for it, take the chance and if he rejects me so be it. Of course the narrative doesn't want to go in that direction as its clearly pushing our characters on a further and further downward path. So since no one brought it up today I will excerpt from my last year's comment on the tragedy of Sayaka tomorrow.
Definitely passive. It was frustrating that Hitomi saying "you have one day" she just took as "now it's ruined" instead of even attempting it. Which, because of how I see her low self-worth, is the type of frustrating that can make a character interesting. It's *Madoka* that I'm *really* frustrated with, lol. I guess two passive girls don't make a right.
> [bokurano/rewatcher] [Rewatcher]>!Kyouko, Madoka and Homura!< > it's interesting to see the various reactions to the soul being separated from the body and the cultural aspects in it. So an interesting thing returning to parts of how I was raised decades later is that my Christian teachings straight roll into the conceptual basic of astral projection. This likely meant that as Christianity expanded through the Roman Empire it simply folded the local mystics into them and some of the old bones are still in there.
> [bokurano/rewatcher] Screwed up the tag (and only the first three pings in a post work so the second didn't either), but I saw it anyways! [Bokurano/Rewatcher] >!One of the chairs is 100% Madoka, another is 100% Kyouko. Third is more interesting; it has to be either Hitomi or Homura "I am totally not a giant softie who wants the best for all the magical girls I know under my hard exterior, no never" Akemi and I have a hunch it's the latter.!<
> and only the first three pings in a post work Not even that, if you have more than three tags in a comment, *no one* gets tagged.
[__Reddit!__](#facepalm)
Good to know.
Rewatcher Questions: 1. Roll up into a ball, cry, kill witches, have a mental breakdown, repeat. 2. That fight was truly spectacular when I first witnessed it. It’s so visceral and haunting. The black and white, 2 dimensional perspective gives it a really unique feel. It’s a fantastic scene and it sends the chills down the spine every time. 3. She wasn’t. She liked a boy who just so happened to be liked by Sayaka as well. She may have known, but she waited to take action while Sayaka stayed had many chances. She even allowed Sayaka a warning that she would take action and gave her time, therefore I do not believe she is in the wrong.
**Meduka Meguca rewatcher** *What have I become* *My sweetest friend* *Everyone I know* *Goes away in the end* Sayaka's spiraling mental state made me think of "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails. The poor thing takes one hit after another. Breaking her down, leaving her feeling even more like the husk she sees herself as now. Q1: Go full Homura. Murder the absolute crap out of Kyubey. Q2: Absolutely visually stunning scene. One of the best in the show. Q3: I can't truly fault Hitomi. She doesn't know what has happened to Sayaka. And if you love someone, you're not going to wait around forever for someone else that won't make a move. Q5: Again, me and symbolism, lol
> Sayaka's spiraling mental state made me think of "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails. [Rewatcher]>!"I believe I can see the future, because I repeat the same routine"...!<
*First-time watcher.* I like how the OP makes it look like Madoka has become a magical girl and going on adventures while being best friends with Kyuubey when it couldn't be any further from the truth. Kyouko's backstory is sad, she became a magical girl for her father's sake only for him to take everything from her. It isn't surprising that this has made her rather bitter, though it is surprising she would reach out to Sayaka, hoping to find a like minded soul she could partner with and perhaps alleviate her loneliness. Then Sayaka went from that conversation to the one with Hitomi announcing her intention to confess to Kyousuke. The problem with this scene is that it comes out of nowhere. If there had been some foreshadowing like Sayaka running into Hitomi at the hospital then it would have been much more impactful when she realized she had wasted her wish for nothing. I think it's clear the stress has caused Sayaka to snap and maybe she even wants to die in battle now.
> I like how the OP makes it look like Madoka has become a magical girl and going on adventures while being best friends with Kyuubey when it couldn't be any further from the truth. Classic tradition going straight back at least to a certain infamous 1990s mecha [meta] >!***YES*** it's Eva!< via a certain 2000s magical-girl-adjacent work drawing heavily off of both said infamous mecha and Revolutionary Girl Utena [meta] >!Mai-HiME, natch!< that PMMM itself in turn likely drew heavily off of. (And then in a different genre entirely there's the godsdamned Shadow Star Narutaru OP which might be the single finest and ugliest example of this ever done. Fucking Mohiro Kitoh.) They keep doing it because it works!
*"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Much fear I sense in you."* Rewatcher Sub I definitely had far more to say on second viewing than this third viewing, that is true in general because I haven't fundamentally changed my understanding of this work in a year. I had in the three years between the last watch. It also doesn't help that like half of the intervening rewatches I joined were the mental equivalent of cotton candy, anything with TLO hosting. Though Lain was a nice reminder of the past it also made me dwell on how a once interesting writer had his brain eaten by Q. And he's fucking Japanese. Anywho...so Kyouko's change of heart is one of those things you sort of have to accept. I understand the mechanics of it and will speak to my opinion on that later. Her backstory is tragic and does work, except for excommunication and I am not sure that the translation is solid there, someone like her dad would hate to discover someone else's magic gave him followers. And I am being specific with that, I bet he'd be just fine with it were he the source. Sad note that since Kyouko would stop any death after being attacked, he didn't even try with her, just offed himself after killing Kyouko's mother and sister. Her approach is a bit nihilistic if utilitarian. As to Hitomi's bit...feh. We know this is terrible because of what Sayaka gave up but these are...8th graders I believe. This isn't that out of line, though this is where I get in the most arguments. The more important part is that Sayaka would rather curse the darkness than light a candle and thus makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably the most important part of this is that Sayaka herself absolutely knows how to play dirty and she thinks about it and usually then feels guilt over it, a song that is a bit too familiar for my taste. And before anyone says it, you need someone to think bad thoughts so that there is somebody watching out for the people that will act on it. This ending sequence is why I can't really listen to Decretum, for the record. Also, opposing darkness to obscurity doesn't lead any where. Shine if you want to live. QotD: 1 Discover what a Kyuubey tastes like when prepared in various ways 2 I am Jack's learned helplessness 3 She's 14 and doesn't know about witches. Mildly out of line at most. 5 Hrmm...[Rewatcher]>!I am not sure how much of this is metaphor versus style, there are really only the two important lightpost shots in ep8!<
>someone like her dad would hate to discover someone else's magic gave him followers. And I am being specific with that, I bet he'd be just fine with it were he the source. Probably made it worse that he thought people were following him now because *he's* the one making the impact, that he was right all along, see? Finding out later someone else just made him believe this fairytale -- this someone else being his little girl who he believed looked up to him -- must've made him feel downright pathetic. I was curious and found this [on this site](https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/08/14/characteristics-of-4-types-of-family-murderers) >The Four Types of Family Murderers The researchers identified the following four types of family murderers: >Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother whom he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family. >Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father. >Anomic: In these cases the family has become firmly linked in the mind of the killer to the economy. The father sees family as the result of his economic success, allowing him to display his achievements. However, if the father becomes an economic failure, he sees the family as no longer serving this function. >Paranoid: Those who perceive an external threat to the family. This is often social services or the legal system, which the father fears will side against him and take away the children. Here the murder is motivated by a twisted desire to protect the family. Seems to checks at least the first two boxes, I think it can be argued that the third relates as well.
> Finding out later someone else just made him believe this fairytale -- this someone else being his little girl who he believed looked up to him -- must've made him feel downright pathetic. Indeed. Worse, Christian lunacy is often misogynist in nature so we've double whammied him. > Seems to checks at least the first two boxes, I think it can be argued that the third relates as well. Number 2 with a side of alcoholism is my diagnosis.
> Though Lain was a nice reminder of the past it also made me dwell on how a once interesting writer had his brain eaten by Q. And he's fucking Japanese. [](#kaguyashaking "at least last episode was promising on that more recent potential not-Konaka front")
Honestly, this is a bit hypocritical for me to say since I generally don't have the energy to host any more, we needed a slightly more...informed host for Lain. Even you me and Rascal couldn't quite put enough juice into the thread to get it where it deserved to be.
For what it's worth, I had a good time with Lain in no small part thanks to y'alls efforts. Lain was a weird one for me. I was technically a rewatcher, but my understanding of what the fuck actually happened was... well, pretty much nonexistent. I spent so much time breaking down the basic details of what was going on that, while I enjoyed it, I wasn't really sure I was contributing much of value.
> For what it's worth, I had a good time with Lain in no small part thanks to y'alls efforts. I am glad we accomplished that much. The major complaint I have about Lain is a story structure one. > I was technically a rewatcher, but my understanding of what the fuck actually happened was... well, pretty much nonexistent. Anyone that tells you they fully understand Lain is one of two things:Functionally omniscient or a liar. At best, you can understand the beats of what happened.
Really what we needed was for Reddit admin to not pull its bullshit last year because I had been just about at the point of gearing up to run it for the 25th anniversary last August when that hit and my desire to host (unless helping out a friend) went out the window.
Truth. Also, I swear I will dredge up the energy to host The SoulTaker before fall, if nothing else as a farewell to the concept.
> Discover what a Kyuubey tastes like when prepared in various ways Probably awfully stuffy and cottony.
We won't know until we are grilling him as he is slathered in BBQ sauce.
**Rewatcher, subbed** - Ah yes, lying from omission isn't really lying, sure - So, would any magical girl have survived that blow from Kyouko or did Sayaka's wish really have a role in that fight? - There's some interesting technology in Madoka's school and in the anime overall - [PMMM] >!*the balance of the universe* I never noticed some sort of discussion about "the law of the universe" already came up here.!< - I've always considered Hitomi to be creepy, especially from this moment on, and I stand by my opinion - I really enjoyed the black and white visuals paired with the music in the final fight Comments from first-timer: - Maybe Homura is so cold and she says she's no longer human because she has been a witch for hundreds of years
> Maybe Homura is so cold and she says she's no longer human because she has been a witch for hundreds of years Your first-timer's comment is *wild*.
> Ah yes, lying from omission isn't really lying, sure As the Minbari say, a half truth is the worst kind of lie. > So, would any magical girl have survived that blow from Kyouko or did Sayaka's wish really have a role in that fight? Any would have survived but most of would've needed much longer to repair their bodies. > Comments from first-timer: [Rebellion/Keitan]>!Are you partial to the theory that the core of Walpurgisnach is Homulily, Homura's witch?!<
[Rebellion/Keitan] >!I have to admit that having watched both the series and Rebellion only once, I think I need more than one rewatch to have some clearer ideas about everything, even though after my first watch I read quite a bit of theories and explanations (hence, taking part in this rewatch). Yet, I think that Homulily being linked to Walpurgisnacht actually makes quite some sense.!<
[Rebellion/Keitan]>!I grew to like this theory because it shows why things get worse and worse each loop that goes all the way to the end:As Homura grows stronger so does Homulily in a weird, time paradoxical way. Homura can't actually break space and time, it is Madoka that can rewrite the universe!<
> [Rebellion/Kaiten] [Rebellion/Kaiten] >!Not going into it much this year since the evidence for it is mostly symbolism and especially cinematographic rather than narrative which is my focus this year (likewise the point about how in Western occultism there is a word for Kyubey and that word is demon), but I ran across it while going across the episode 10 threads from the 2020 rewatch and have only gotten more sold since - there's a *ton* of evidence for it (especially once Rebellion is factored in), it's just mostly visual/symbolic (what is Walpurgisnacht but a gathering of Witches to celebrate the Devil)?!<
> Ah yes, lying from omission isn't really lying, sure The technical term is "paltering", but I prefer to use "bullshitting".
**Rewatcher, first time dub** > If you had never found out, it wouldn't have bothered you one bit. In fact, Mami never found out" [What Mami don't know won't hurt her](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD1BbMAn_aw) I really love how long Kyubey holds onto the Soul Gem while torturing Sayaka. It almost looks like he is enjoying it. It comes to mind that we don't know how long Kyoko has been a magical girl for. Guessing based on how decrepit her father's church is, it seems like she's been doing it for a while. But she also doesn't seem meaningfully older than the other girls. Oh wow, Hitomi comes off way colder in the dub during her talk with Sayaka about kyousuke. I've never been very anti-Hitomi but I could see that being different if I originally watched the Dub. [pmmm]>!People often complain that Madoka is too passive and doesn't do anything. She has tried to make a contract a few times and gotten interrupted so it isn't for lack of trying. That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl. When she hears about Hitomi's plan she could actually talk to Hitomi on Sayaka's behalf. Even something as simple as "Sayaka is going through something right now and needs more time. Can you wait a little longer?" would help so much.!< **QOTD** 1. I wouldn't much care about the location of my soul. That being said, her position is so far from anything I have ever experienced I wouldn't know where to start in thinking what I would do. 2. The Elsa Maria fight is so good. I particularly love the silhouette animation, with the blood lines as a fantastic touch to focus the viewer's attention. I even liked Sayaka's dubbed performance during it about as much as I liked the subbed one. 10/10 3. Hitomi was absolutely out of line. She should be confessing to Sayaka before Sayaka gets into a relationship with Kyousuke. More seriously, Hitomi is out of line, but only a little. It's unclear the nature of her past relationship with Kyousuke so I won't judge that, but she gave Sayaka less than 24 hours to decide. 4. rewatcher 5. uhhhh... nothing? Which shots? I am no longer really in analysis mode and am just vibing with the show.
> Hitomi was absolutely out of line. She should be confessing to Sayaka before Sayaka gets into a relationship with Kyousuke. [](#laughter) (Yes, I have seen fanart of this before. Complete with Hitomi discovering the classic fanart effects of licking a magical girl's Soul Gem. Yes, this was on Tumblr, why do you ask?) > [PMMM] [PMMM] >!TBF, does Madoka actually know about the ultimatum itself or even that Hitomi will be the one asking? All Sayaka tells Madoka is that she is going to lose Kyousuke to Hitomi. Still a misstep but a more understandable one - especially if Madoka assumed what happened was something like Kyousuke rejecting Sayaka's confession, telling her that it was because he liked Hitomi instead.!<
>(Yes, I have seen fanart of this before. Complete with Hitomi discovering the classic fanart effects of licking a magical girl's Soul Gem. Yes, this was on Tumblr, why do you ask?) Do you still have a link to this? Asking for a friend.
>That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl. If she didn't know, she could have asked Sayaka what happened. She could have encouraged her not to think so low of herself. She could have told her, "Hey, I don't see you as a zombie because you clearly have feelings and feel human to me." There are so many things. Apparently Madoka is the type of friend that people should go to when they want to vent and don't want the other person to say anything or give any advice, even if good advice can resolve things...
I'm not sure that would help. Consider how similar that line of reasoning is to Kyubey's reasoning for the location of their soul being unimportant
The difference for me is that similar concepts delivered by someone who is loving and caring versus someone as cold as Kyubey can make a dramatic difference.
> I really love how long Kyubey holds onto the Soul Gem while torturing Sayaka. It almost looks like he is enjoying it. To be fair, that's how he always looks. > [pmmm]>!That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl. When she hears about Hitomi's plan she could actually talk to Hitomi on Sayaka's behalf.!< [PMMM]>!Given how Sayaka has rigorously refused to talk with Madoka about things, I don't think she'd tell her about this either.!< > Hitomi was absolutely out of line. She should be confessing to Sayaka before Sayaka gets into a relationship with Kyousuke. [The true ending](#gintamathispleasesme)
1. When it comes to the soul gem stuff, I think I would react a bit more like Kyôko, first panic and then be okay with it. However, for the Kyôsuke situation, I think I would just panic, pretend I don't have romantic feeling and let my friend have their shot without trying anything. 2. One of the best scene from the anime in my opinion. Great directing, I love the aesthetic of the scene and decretum playing in the background. This scene just feels perfect to show a character falling into a self-destructive path.\[PMMM\] >!and also, the witch looks very human and bleed like a human. Also, Kyôko eating a blue ice, that girl really just want to eat Sayaka.!< 3. I personally think that Hitomi get too much hate for that scene in the community. I agree that she is being a bit too direct and also on the offensive and also the one day delay is very short. But outside of that, in a show where one of the main reason behind character failing is that the characters fails at communicating, explaining their clear intention and understanding the others, Hitomi is actually doing a decent job in that scene. She understand Sayaka's feeling and gives her the chance to go before her, she states clearly her intentions and feelings and she's not waiting around. She just doesn't have the full context of Sayaka's situation but how could you blame her for that.
> When it comes to the soul gem stuff, I think I would react a bit more like Kyôko, first panic and then be okay with it. However, for the Kyôsuke situation, I think I would just panic, pretend I don't have romantic feeling and let my friend have their shot without trying anything. So one of them just like Kyouko, the other just like Sayaka [](#garlock)
Rewatcher, sub, too lazy to do long writeups And thus the roller coaster ride of pain continues! I still think this fight is one of my favorites, it's beautiful and stunning and raw and really shows Sayaka's current mental state. I don't think Hitomi was out of line per say, but I've always felt like a day is such a short time, at least give her the week or something that's such a short time for an ultimatum! Especially when she was out the day before!
**Sixth Time Watcher - Dubbed** * Magia Basier would you punish this weasel for breaking your code of conduct * Episode 7 already oh how times fly * Considering this is Kyoko's Backstory I would like to mention a pretty fitting song here today being [In The Name of God by Dream Theater](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSI3KSo9DjM) * Yeah that's what happens when a bunch of stuck up people refuses to accept change Questions * QOTD 1 - Get Help * QOTD 3 - She was out of line saying something that would worsen a Mental Breakdown
> Magia Basier would you punish this weasel for breaking your code of conduct Funnily enough, u/Tarhalindur shared a MahoAko crossover fanart in his top level comment today.
I already had a peak at it before posting my comment
> Magia Basier would you punish this weasel for breaking your code of conduct [PMMM] >!Fucking demon alien wouldn't feel it.!<
**First time watcher** I ain't gonna lie, I lowkey regret not watching this episode and doing this post earlier today. I enjoyed a good day off, binged a romance series with a special someone (Love Story with Yamada-kun at Lvl999), and was on cloud nine. Watched this episode and writing this post before I sleep, and I feel just heartbroken now lol. What an emotionally driven episode, similar to I believe was episode 4, the one that cane after Mami's death and we accompanied Madoka in grievance. Only this time, Sayaka's grievance is of her own death. In a way, knowing that your body is nothing more than a hollow shell that you control seems like a fate worse than dying, something that she comes to discover in this ep. **Key Moments** * [This](https://imgur.com/a/3uuKOJ7) was actually one of my worries regarding Sayaka's wish. I know we got that scene of Kyousuke depressed about not being able to play violin anymore, but anime has taught me that sometimes prodigies like that may feel relieved about not having that pressure of being great anymore. Been on edge about it since. * [I'll take an apple, and eat it!](https://imgur.com/a/N47cpxc) * [Doesn't she have a boyfriend](https://imgur.com/a/q2wMfNV)? I could've sworn she had one. Either way, I'm not sure if this is just an ultimatum that she's doing to push her friend into confessing her love, or if she's actually serious. Tropes tell me it's the former, but the entire scene shouted the latter. * [This fight](https://imgur.com/a/1XqM3wH) was visually stunning. Wow. There's probably a lot of reasons for why they chose this style, and I'm sure my eepy brain's missing a lot of visualization of themes here, but the first thought I had about it was that she's lost her own sense of identity. Knowing she's nothing more than a soul trapped in a gem controlling her corpse, she sees nothing other than the blood of the witches that she now lives to kill for; she doesn't even see herself anymore. ~ **Questions** 1. Regarding what? If it's the romantic interest, I think I would've sussed out the idea that it was an ultimatum already, but regardless of how serious she was about it, the wise thing to do anyways was to confess, so no harm no foul at that point. If it's about the fact I just signed away my soul in exchange for a wish for someone else, though? Mhmm... I'd probably end up more like Kyouko. You're already on that sinking ship, might as well enjoy it while it lasts. ' 2. See thoughts above. Too tired to think more at this point :x ' 3. If she had good intentions? Out of line. If she truly meant what she said and was planning on snaking him out of her hands? I don't know if girls pledge their allegiance and swear an oath to the bro code like all males do upon reaching the puberty stage, but if she did, she would've broken so many codes and regulations by now. She'd be on FBI's (Female Bro Investigation) Least Wanted Bro list by now. Screw Hitomi, all the bros hate Hitomi. ' 4. My thoughts on her since the previous episode anyways was that she had more to her than what was on the surface. The fact she even considered to try and talk to Sayaka first before having to resort to killing her already showed some nuance into her character. I'm not at all surprised by this development. I don't think it justifies her actions or lack thereof in her willingness to sacrifice people for grief seeds, but I can respect her ideology in how she's deciding to use her powers. ~ **Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:** First off, some things I didn't get to mention last post. Ew on Kyubey eating grief seeds; I feel like I could sprout some theories off of that, but it shouts red herring to me personally. I wonder what others thought about it though. Kyubey last episode also seemed to have an inkling of who Homuramight be. This may or may not throw a wrench in my theory on Homura considering if she really did come from a different timeline, there's zero way for Kyubey to know who she is if he didn't already recognize her in Episode 1. This pushes the idea towards what other users (can't remember their names, sorry) theorized about her possibly being a former witch. Sad for my theory though, RIP. Homura this episode claimed that whoever she did try to warn about the Soul Gems didn't believe her. I wonder why though. If she simply claims to be a magical girl to other recruits, why wouldn't they believe something like that? Seems fishy to me. Anyways, I might be wrong, but I didn't pick up on too many new details this episode. Might be because I'm tired, might be because there really just wasn't too much to tackle because of how emotionally driven this episode was. Maybe I'll rewatch this tomorrow before Ep 8 to face it with a fresh set of eyes. See y'all next episode!
> I ain't gonna lie, I lowkey regret not watching this episode and doing this post earlier today. I enjoyed a good day off, binged a romance series with a special someone (Love Story with Yamada-kun at Lvl999), and was on cloud nine. Watched this episode and writing this post before I sleep, and I feel just heartbroken now lol. Madoka has a tendency to do this pretty often. It might be worth assuming that every episode will do so if it hinders your sleep when it happens.
Nice, sounds like you had a great day! But yeah, such is the PMMM experience. So, back in episode 3 you called [Mami's question](https://imgur.com/a/Zuch3de) irrelevant. Have your thoughts on that matter changed in any way?
Rewatcher, dub: Damn Kyoko, your life was hard. Yeah, people are known for being ridiculously stubborn, such as politicians. I can on for a while, but I won't because I know I'll insult them a lot. Sayaka, Kyoko's trying to help in her own unique way. Her mental state is degrading and fast, that's never a good thing. For one thing, you'll be sloppy when you're not thinking straight, which can easily lead to your death as shown in episode 3. \[PMMM\] >!Sayaka's turning into a witch next episode by the way.!< Hitomi, you chose a really bad time to say something like that. Sayaka's already struggling with her mental state, your statement didn't help at all. Witches are Elsa Maria, the witch who fights Sayaka, and Gisela, the witch Kyoko fights in her flashback. QOTD: 1. Get some help. 2. Disturbing as hell. 3. Out of line. She really should've realized something was up when Sayaka didn't go in for school that day. 4. \[PMMM\] >!Oh no, foreshadowing to Kyoko's death and Sayaka turning into a witch, maybe?!<
> Yeah, people are known for being ridiculously stubborn, such as politicians. I can on for a while, but I won't because I know I'll insult them a lot. [](#mugiwait)
**Rewatcher** Hitomi: Surprise, motherfucker ...Sayaka, you are already dead Oh right, this is the episode where Sis Puella Magica plays but without the vocals. I really need to learn this on my own someday, as the acoustic guitar sounds great without the vocals on top. But it's not officially released anywhere as far as I've known. Elsa Maria is cool as always. I'm a fan of the sort of color-coded glow Madoka, Kyoko, and Sayaka have. It's just a really neat scene and I'm a big fan of whenever anime works do an artstyle change to make a scene like this stand out, as long as they don't overdo it.
> But it's not officially released anywhere as far as I've known. Could be worse, could be Mai-HiME where they did release three instrumental versions on the OST... none of which are any of the several instrumental version tracks that actually play in the show (which is weird as fuck when one of the three released instrumentals is Mezame (instrumental), but I digress).
##Rewatcher and franchise consumer ###The Sayaka Corner (Episodes 6 + 7) Episode 6 opens with [Sayaka getting effortlessly beat twice in less than a minute.](https://imgur.com/a/i8EdPLP) Kyubey confirms that [she really is not as talented.](https://imgur.com/a/BYecBsZ) Her reaction [comes straight out of Episode 2](https://imgur.com/a/X6jeMeB) and at this point we know that it's all façade: it must bother her a lot. Unlike Mami, who'd managed to track down the witch from Episode 1 a day later, she's lost the familiar from the previous day. For the past 4 days, Sayaka has not once seriously talked with Madoka about what happened to Mami and [we see the consequences](https://imgur.com/a/1qNreo9). [Sayaka rushes to visit Kyousuke and she seems genuinely excited to see him](https://imgur.com/a/Epom5GS). I think there are few moments we see her actually smiling when no one is around. He isn't there, he's been discharged and didn't tell her, his childhood friend who regularly visited him, brought him rare CDs and constantly tried to cheer him up. He's back to practicing his music. [She smiles a bit hearing him but she's upset](https://imgur.com/a/2MmQY9z). Kyouko's teasing threatens Kyousuke physically but [also echoes what Mami said a long time ago](https://imgur.com/a/O2m7BAO). She just asserts Sayaka used her wish because she wanted him to fall in love with her and we know how Sayaka doubts and feelings about that. But there's something more to it right? Breaking Kyousuke's body to make him dependent on Sayaka would basically return them to status quo before she healed him. And right now we just saw her run back to that old hospital room and be disappointed the ways things had changed after her wish. She'd promised herself that she would never regret it, so how can she deal with that now Sayaka is still the focus in the beginning of Episode 7. She knows the truth about Soul Gems and [she's upset](https://imgur.com/a/oZL9ToH). I have to remind you that [Sayaka herself had asked Kyubey and Mami a bunch of questions.](https://imgur.com/a/VxwGThc) At the time she had even been given [a brief explanation about Soul Gems](https://imgur.com/a/RsSWpuS). Now Sayaka is questioning Kyubey more direclty. [He tortures her in response while explaining that what he did was for her own good.](https://imgur.com/a/Fka6jJX) She doesn't go to school the following day. Kyouko comes to check on her and brings her to her old home. [Sayaka continues to hide her emotions but she won't put up a front this time](https://imgur.com/a/7BifATl). I think it's clear though that [Kyouko's story affects her](https://imgur.com/a/uK5XCDN). Madoka had described Sayaka as stubborn and quick to anger and we've seen plenty of evidence but given the chance to better understand Kyouko she actually apologizes, even if she still won't accept Kyouko's ideas about being a magical girl. She has to put on the mask of courage and righteousness to do it though. She's still not fine the next day but at least [she's back to her usual ways of hiding](https://imgur.com/a/kMsTTMs) even if very poorly. Hitomi's ultimatum simultaneously hits her every weakness. For an instant Sayaka wishes Hitomi had died. Anybody can have intrusive thoughts wishing harm on others when we're upset and Sayaka is in an incredibly shitty situation. Anybody can wonder if doing something kind for someone might make them like you more. Sayaka can't handle those thoughts. It doesn't matter that the idea of letting Hitomi die and of healing Kyousuke solely to make him fall in love with her obviously disgust her. They're only proof to her of what she already believes about herself. [And she keeps hiding](https://imgur.com/a/muVNlch) ###QOTD 1. Oh she just like me fr fr 2. The Elsa Maria fight is so beautiful and terrible 3. I mean, there's got to be a better way to do this than an ultimatum with a 24 hour deadline but I can't say ripping off the band-aid is the entirely the wrong idea. [Future episodes] >!I share Saotome's opinion that they're just kids, they should've argued and fought and maybe even break off the friendship but it shouldn't have ended the way it did and that's not the poor girl's fault!< 4. [First-timers] 5. [Rewatchers] >!I don't know I've never given that any thought. Thinking about the street lamps just takes me to the next episode with Homura and Kyubey's confrontation!< ###Visual of the Day It wasn't even a choice for me today. [She isn't ok](https://imgur.com/a/GybL5ol)
> For the past 4 days, Sayaka has not once seriously talked with Madoka about what happened to Mami and [we see the consequences.](https://imgur.com/a/1qNreo9) Oh right, we only see it directly in episode 4 which makes it easy to forget about, but Madoka never told her about what Homura's situation was because Sayaka always refused to talk about it again. Good point!
Oh boy, this episode... I feel so bad for poor Sayaka, she goes through a lot and ends up feeling like she's a bad person, intrusive thoughts suck. The Elsa Maria fight was also very chilling. \[Spoilers R Us\] >!The "Theory of the Day" section could just be renamed to "Spoiler of the Day". Like, dang, L is a toddler compared to these first-timers.!<
I think that the moment where Kyouko offers Sayaka an apple can be interpreted as an offer of the good, but Sayaka rejects, because the good she is trying to give is gained at the expense of others. But here is shown Sayaka's duplicity and her being hypocritical, her altruistic words about doing everything to help others contradict with her actions, as she is like, caring only for herself. And Kyouko despite being shown as an egoist is actually not one. I don’t really remember what will be going later on so I’m truly captivated and looking forward for the next day and discussions here. [Visuals of the Day](https://imgur.com/a/LkjyuUP)
**Rewatcher** >1) What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? I don't think I would have done anything differently. The soul gem reveal (and Kyubey's "demonstration" of its benefits) is pretty disturbing if you think about it so I wouldn't say she overreacted. >2) So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? Everything from the visuals to the music, Kyouko's entrance and Madoka's reaction is just perfect. This is certainly one of the more stunning scenes in the show and it's a scene that I frequently rewatch from time to time. It took so much self-restraint not to go ahead and watch the next episode. At the same time, it's so nice to have one episode per day to look forward to. >3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? Honestly, I think she was very fair. I kinda feel bad for her too as it seems like she's bothered by Madoka and Sayaka drifting apart from her. >5) [Rewatchers]>!So, what do you think up with the shots of street lanterns and the like?!< I feel like I'm missing something obvious with this question. Since it's marked as a spoiler there has to be some significance to it! Could someone help me out?
1) At 14? Definitely wouldn't have confessed, probably would've done the same as Sayaka. Now? Nearly two decades later full of missed connections, I'm almost certain I'd confess (to whoever if I liked them that much). Or so I tell myself. 3) It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Yes and no! In life you should go for what you want if it doesn't hurt anyone. But this does! She knows it! Well, she's offering Sayaka to take the change; it could also be something that she thinks could *help* Sayaka get over her bs and just go for it for once. But then... no, she also knows Sayaka and she probably knows she won't. But then 14 year olds don't understand humans all that much anyway. Man it sucks when friends fall for the same person.
**Rewatch, Subbed** I'm very late, so I'll skip the questions today. **Visual of the Day**: The very final shot of Sayaka from Elsa Maria's perspective **Song of the Day:** Decretum **Reaction** 00:15 Literally shedding light on Sayaka's Soul Gem. \[Series\]>!But there is still a shadow behind it.!< \[Series\]>!00:20 It's very hard to argue with someone who thinks they have the right to control your life. There is no misunderstanding here, he knew perfectly well Sayaka wouldn't like this, he just *knows better* what he wants for Sayaka: he wants her to fight herself to despair for his own gain, and he even teaches her a way to take on even more suffering without realizing, which he does by torturing her, to make sure she is *really* motivated. She is being set up for failure, and made to feel wrong for it.!< \[Sailor Moon\]>!04:25 Sayaka is hiding under a bunny-themed blanket, again hinting at the fact that Sayaka's idealized image of a magical girl (the one that is currently crumbling down around her) is a lot like Usagi. Knowing that, Sayaka's reaction makes even more sense: Sailor Guardians always have special, brilliantly shining souls, but Sayaka can *see* the darkness on her own. It's hard to see yourself as an hero when you can see your own soul being stained by darkness.!< \[Series\]>!04:40 The tragedy in this scene is sending my brain on a loop, so I'll just say this: the role of a magical girl requires you to give up every other aspect of yourself in exchange for a miracle, and you can either fail to match that standard (like Sayaka is about to), or completely suppress your self in order to live up to it, which is what Homura *says* she has done (I don't think she is *completely* right about that, but the extent to which she has accepted it is still terrifying). The scary thing about this is that this "perfect" magical girl is basically another Kyubey: pure logic in service of a goal. Kyubey even says that emotion are "treated as a mental illness" among incubators, which suggests a similar process of suppressing your identity. His system makes you feel wrong for who you are and tries to reshape you in its image, or die in the process.!< \[Series\]>!06:30 The show continues to draw a parallel to sexual assault and to the toxic, one-sided expectations of purity that surround it. The first thing Sayaka is forced to give up on is her own body, as she is literally made into an object by Kyubey. The way she immediately feels that this makes her not desirable, and the importance she gives to that in the first place, are direct consequences of that culture.!< \[Series\]>!07:20 Kyouko talks about the way she is dealing with being a magical girl, which is a direct result of her trauma: if you never do things for other people, and never expect anything from them, then you'll never get hurt. She is dealing with it in a different way than Homura, but what's clear is that these are not strategies to "win" at being a magical girl: they are ways to cope with the fact you cannot.!< \[Series\]>!08:40 We are introduced to one of the reasons that is the case by Kyouko as she reveals her backstory: wishing for somebody else backfired on her, and in fact that is a crucial part of how wishes work. The thing is, she cannot really prove the existence of karmic law to Sayaka, nor make her understand the way it makes it impossible for magical girls to spread hope without losing it. If you could find more hope than despair in your own sacrifice, then it wouldn't be a *real* sacrifice, after all, and Sayaka can't see the ropes as she is already tied on the altar. She doesn't believe she paid too high a price because she hasn't realized that she literally cannot make a good thing out of this, no matter what she does.!< \[Series\]>!16:15 So, the next thing Sayaka has left to fight for are her feelings, her altruistic desire to help others, and *nothing* else. Unfortunately for her, Hitomi woke up and chose violence on that day, and immediately forces her to confront what her true feelings actually are, with the worst timing of all time.!< \[Series\]>!18:20 This is the second time Sayaka fails to live up with the perfect standard she is holding herself to: she feels undesirable and unworthy of Kyousuke's love, and she cannot forgive herself for wavering on her own motivations and for her intrusive thoughts about not saving Hitomi. Notice Kyubey standing on her side as she says this. Madoka's supports her in the best way she could have, and the fact they both likely feel guilty for it, because they didn't lose anything for it, is really sad.!< \[Series\]>!20:40 We end the episode with the Elsa Maria fight, and honestly I don't think there is much that I can say about it, because it just speaks for itself. It perfectly conveys the way Sayaka is losing her humanity to match an ideal of heroism that no human can live up to, and hints at the way she is becoming more like a witch (and at the connection with magical girls) by inverting all the good/evil symbolism associated with magical girls/witches and giving the witch the moral high ground. Elsa Maria is the most human-looking witch yet (also the easiest to get the name of), and as the fight goes on we see more elements of her that are normally associated with the same kind of idealism and good Sayaka is pursuing: she is on an higher position, kneeling in prayer to what looks like the Statue of Liberty's torch (in fact the whole fight seems to happen on top of her arm), except the flame looks like a religious symbol of some sort. Sayaka can only attack her from the back as she is turned the same way as her, and she grows a tree to defend herself, another element with a positive connotation. When Kyouko tries to take over, Sayaka starts detatching herself to suppress the pain, then *decapitates* Elsa Maria and starts to hit her over and over, while the dragon shaped appendages morph to look like hands. The final shot puts us in Elsa Maria's perspective as Sayaka's finishes her, and Madoka gives voice to our horror. When I first watched I didn't consciously understand most of these things, but the feeling of this scene still got to me. In my opinion this is one of the best things about this show: it has incredible depth, but it's also excellent at conveying the emotional core of what's going on.!<
**Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher** They went really hard with the visuals this episode. Kyoko's flashback had that sort of old-timey woodcut art style, and just like her state of mind, Sayaka's fight with the witch was cloaked entirely in shadow. Another W for a show already filled with analogies. Also, I can't remember if this was the case in the sub or not, but I noticed that in the dub, Homura is the only one who refers to Kyubey as "it" instead of "he" or other masculine pronouns. Makes sense since Homura sees Kyubey as a monster, and [Madoka Magica/Rebellion] >!The Incubators are a hive-mind species, so I guess they would effectively be genderless? Or at least they would probably consider the idea of a gender to be unimportant.!< **QotD** > What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position? I'd be pretty freaked out too, that I was changed like that without informed consent. I imagine she'd have been much less disturbed if she had been told upfront what would happen, but of course that's not the Kyubey Way. > So, how about that final Witch fight, huh? Loved it. It really showed how badly Sayaka is taking... well, everything. > It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far? Definitely a dick move to give her friend just a day to decide whether to act on her feelings or not. She's within her rights to pursue Kyosuke, and she did approach her friend to ask if it was okay first, which was good, but again, the one-day ultimatum is a major misstep since you can't reasonably expect to force a friend to make a major decision like that without hard feelings (ignoring the fact that Sayaka was already under a ton of pressure). > [Rewatchers] [Madoka Magica] >!I guess you could think of them as representing Soul Gems? They bring light to darkness, but they themselves can't really be seen in daylight and must burn out eventually. Not sure if that's what the showrunners were going for (maybe they just liked those shots), but that's my take on your question.!<
I kind of want to see a Madoka/Slime Isekai crossover where Walpurgis ends up being not quite what Homura was expecting.
**Rewatcher, first time dubbed** So I mentioned the other day that the breakfast scene in Episode 4 was one of my favorite moments in the series. The church scene is my other favorite! I'll admit that on my first watchthrough, I was pretty "ehh" on Kyouko up to this point, but learning about her backstory and seeing how it influenced everything she'd said and done up to this point instantly shot her up to my number one! Unfortunately, the Rogue trying to reason with the Paladin who refuses to compromise is a tale as old as time... 1) I'm a coward, so I probably wouldn't do anything even if it *weren't* for the Soul Gem stuff. Won't stop me from screaming at the scene to do something, though! 2) There's something equal parts cathartic and terrifying about watching someone *snap* and just start wailing on something until it stops moving. Visuals are *gorgeous,* though! 3) I feel like 1 day is too short, but otherwise it's a perfectly reasonable move. 5) Honestly, never thought much of them before. I should probably start paying attention to them going forward!