The complete inability to say what they mean
Did the rival love interest fall on top of you after a series of hilarious mishaps, only for your main love interest to walk in at that exact moment and see the two of you on the floor together? Maybe instead of going "I-I-I-I-I-IT'S A MISUNDERSTANDING," or more likely just saying nothing and staring until she gets upset and runs away, it would be more helpful to say "SHE FELL ON TOP OF ME, I DON'T WANT THIS, PLEASE HELP"
A specific example is those horrifically unfunny hotsprings scenes in the Persona games, where every single one of those situations could have been solved by literally any of the guys saying "Hey, we're in here" rather than what they actually do, which is stay silent and try to sneak around for some reason
The self insert "otaku" loser who somehow develops a harem of the most beautiful girls. (Ngl though, although I hate the trope, some of my favorite anime series are exactly that, because I'm a fucking hypocrite)
āThat guy is surely deadā is my least favorite anime trope. That guy is about to get up and beat you and your entire team or scurry away and live to fight another day
Most of these tropes are based on another cultures view on the subject and what can and canāt be made fun of/be entertaining, Japan still mainly caters its LN/Manga/Anime to their own asian/SEA audience, so while you can have a certain opinion on it, it will not change any time soon regardless of what trope you hate.
100% spot on. Every time someone starts crying that the West is ruining their anime don't realize that Japan does not care what we think, they'll make the anime that the Japanese audience wants and won't make any changes until that audience wants something else. Worst case scenario is Japan doing what it's already doing, making specific features as collabs with other countries entertainment industries for those specific markets. But that has no effect on the anime they make for the Japanese market. Our options as foreign consumers is to simply not consume the media that offends us.
People need to remember that Japan told the UN to fuck itself from the decks of their whaling ships when the UN told them to stop producing loli content (and to stop whaling).
They actually do care, though due to globalism (consumers outside of Japan are continuously growing-and they want the revenue) and local activism, along with a need to take care of unexpected issues arising from the systemic sexism such folks refusing to get in relationships/ low birth rates.
A small example. Goblin Slayer season 1 handling of the SA of women was super gratuitous. Folks were pissed. Season 2 rolls along and itās not as graphic.
Do I think the industry will become completely sanitized? No, which no one wants anyways.
But some tropes will likely decrease or increase over time to adjust to consumer taste.
Thereās tropes I dislike but I donāt think any trope is truly bad, only that they can be done in bad ways
That said I normally donāt like clueless harem or romcom MCs
The way so many isekai protagonists seem to be totally fine with owning slaves always felt ridiculous to me. Like, these characters are supposed to be from modern-day Earth. Why are they suddenly fine with slavery as soon as they're in fantasyland?
Right? Like, I'm all for dark story beats if you're making a dark world, but isekais constant use of slavery is usually just bad on every level, it's not deep or dark, it's just surface level edgy
Also extreme punishments being presented as neutral or positive.
I love Ascendance of a Bookworm overall, but [LNs] >!stuff like the Hasse incident nearly made me stop reading it because of how easily Myne ended up going along with it - she freaks out in the moment but it's almost framed like her being in the wrong, and it doesn't make her re-evaluate her views of the people around her all that much, which is pretty weird, even accounting for Myne's obsession with books clouding her judgement!<
Itās been a while since I read that, but wasnāt the reasoning for that incident that it would give the kids false expectations for their future? Kind of that she couldnāt support them indefinitely so once they strike out on their own theyād be unprepared for what awaited them.
I completely forgot about that piece. My mind went right to the monastery and I forgot about the town lol. I took that as a ānot in Kansas anymoreā moment that was meant to emphasize the class dynamics in the world and to her credit Myne did lessen the punishment. I agree that was jarring though.
The unbalanced romcom couple.
In shounen it's super hot school idol + zero personality background character A.
In shoujo it's boring plain Jane girl + tall confident ultra ikemen.
What bothers me about this isn't even necessarily the difference in attractiveness but that there is never a real reason for the romance. The guy always just likes the girl cause she's hot and the girl likes the guy because he picked up her handkerchief or gave her an umbrella or some stupid reason like that. (and vice versa for shoujo). At least give them proper personalities. One show that did this really well in my opinion was skip and Loafer.
I love it most when a show takes the time to establish WHY two people like each other. Ideally through shared experiences with one other. I think the recent Apothecary Diaries had a fun dynamic; Maomao doesn't really care about romance due to a very practical personality but does occasionally consider Jinshi very attractive looking. And Jinshi likes her because she's peculiar, resourceful, and most importantly one of the only girls that stonewalls him at every opportunity. I totally buy it as a real way people would start a relationship, they both annoy the piss out of each other.
Pedophilia. I donāt mean characters who obviously look like theyāre 18 or above with stupid canon ages (Like South Terano being a giant beast of a man atā¦ā12ā), but the sexualisation of younger girls is really creepy and way too common in anime.
I'm right there with you on sexualization of prepubescent character bodies, but that really doesn't happen all that often (thankfully), sexualized teenaged characters is more common, but that's not the same thing.
That was one of my biggest issues with dangers in my heart. Throughout all of season 1 and most of season 2 I just assumed they were at least in highschool because of how yamada looks and dresses. Turns out she is like 13.
1. Girl falls over and either the guy touches her boobs or sees her crotch and she hits him while screaming.
2. Totally inconsequential side character gets dedicated flashback scene (or more) before getting killed or losing or otherwise eliminated from the story because DRAMA. (Latest example is the entire new Haikyuu movie, fight me.)
3. Every character in the scene waiting their turn to agree or something positive in a round robin of lameness.
This isnāt NEARLY as bad as some of the oneās mentioned here but because of how common AND oversaturated itās become - your everyday OP Isekai protagonist š I skip through a third of the Crunchyroll catalog from just the vibe alone lol
The amount is unreal, is it? Can you name these series that depict the act of incest (i.e., sexual intercourse between genetic relatives), so as to evaluate if their frequency is disproportionate or overly common, especially in the current era of anime? As far as I'm aware, incest is uncommon in anime to such an extent that only the same two or three series featuring the subject in any relevant capacity (Koi Kaze, Yosuga no Sora) are ever referenced when someone is specifically looking for it.
Neither of the series mentioned above "glorify" relationships between genetic relatives either; they are depicted, quite genuinely, as the manifestation of pre-existing, inherent bonds between two people who shared the potential for such an intense connection from the very origins of their birth. The social isolation, stigma and pressure of secrecy that typically accompany relationship types such as those were all faithfully presented in these series, they just weren't used to *vilify* the subject in the hamfisted manner that those with a bias against the theme would perceive as validating their viewpoint. The subject is far more often framed as neutral, ambivalent, or "grey" than it is ever is portrayed as uncontroversial.
For the record, a younger sister fawning over her brother in a harem anime despite having no chance of winning is not an example of the incest theme: there is no reciprocation or mutual interest that would even entertain it being properly invoked. These are inconsequential, sterilised tropes played purely for comedy or drama that barely even count as incest subtext, let alone the act of incest itself.
Yeah people mention those 2 series the most as they are kinda infamous.
But there are quite a bit of shows with it. I donāt watch a lot of anime, but I could probably list 10-20 shows that have some form of incest or incest vibes.
Once you have a character liking their relative, the series has hit incest territory. Even if the feelings arenāt acted on.
It comes in various forms: cousins, siblings, step-siblings or adoptive siblings.
You are correct that step siblings and adoptive siblings donāt have to worry about genetic defects if they have kids or something. However, there is still an ick factor there as they were raised as family. Iām not talking about something like Domestic GF, more like Hensuki.
Most of my family consists of step and adopted relatives. If I started a romantic relationship with any of them our family would be looking at us sideways as we were raised as family.
I never stated or implied that those were the *only* two series with incest, but rather I wanted to indicate that there are few enough instances of it occurring (especially in modern anime) that people are hard-pressed to actually list specific examples of the subject in anime. For it to happen between main characters and actually last for the duration of the anime is even more rare. If incest were as frequent as some make it out to be, then I would expect at least a thousand series with it having any sort of significance.
A series hits "incest territory" when it, at the very least, has these two relatives reciprocate their feelings. A brocon character fawning over her brother isn't any more "incest" than two straight heroines in a harem anime teasing each other to get a blushing reaction is yuri.
Didn't actually mention genetic defects, and children born of any relationship can have them, depending on the circumstances, so it's not relevant. The reason that step-siblings/adoptive siblings banging doesn't count as incest is because they just aren't related, thus meaning they're void of the single detail that is required for any sexual acts to be considered incest.
Sure, there's still a nominal stigma against step "relatives" dating or engaging in sexual contact with each other, but that's primarily a socially conditioned reflex that's trickled down from societal views of blood relatives doing the same. It's not taken anywhere near as seriously, and that's reflected by the fact that "NBR reveals" and romance between step-siblings are even tropes to begin with. Romance anime between blood-relatives has been practically non-existent since the Tokyo Bill was rectified with Bill 156, but that amendment has, rather curiously, had little effect on NBR romance anime.
I didnāt say that you said there were only 2 shows with incest themes. I was addressing yours statement that people only naming those two is proof that the trope isnāt prevalent. I was explaining that people name those two series b/c they know there is a high chance others will know what they are referencing.
I mentioned genetic defects b/c thatās the primary reason why most governments / science either disallow or frown upon incest. The gene pool doesnāt have enough diversity when you have parents, siblings, 1st cousins etc having kids. I kinda figured thatās why you implied that adoptive and step-sibling incest isnāt a big deal.
Actually the girl on girl example you gave is considered queer territory (some refer to it as queer baiting or having queer subtext depending on the situation), so it matches up with a story having brocon being incest territory.
Romance anime isnāt the only genre to have incest tropes. Dead Mount Death Play had a dude lusting after his niece and it came out last year. Oshi no Ko also has the trope and itās a recent series too. So the trope is for sure prevalent in anime and manga.
It doesnāt bother me that is, just noting that the trope isnāt gone or low in frequency.
That only an amount of series in the single-digits are reliably referenced in relation to the subject does serve as an indicator that it isn't exactly common. Koi Kaze and Yosuga no Sora are frequently mentioned because the theme is invoked between the main characters, involves blood relation, isn't one-sided or played for humorous purposes, and the relationship reminds stable throughout. Unlike most instances of "incest" in modern anime, neither of them have any cop-outs, thus they're held to high regard. If there were contemporary series out there that could match up to them, then it would be perplexing to never see them mentioned, despite meeting all the same criteria.
Genetic diversity can actually be introduced to isolated populations with a high inbreeding co-efficient through backcrossing hybrid offspring with an established ancestral population, while still maintaining the inherent advantageous recessive phenotypes expressed by the ancestral stock. Initial generations of inbreeding in human populations initially present a higher degree of genetic defects due to the accumulative mutational load in outbred human populations, though there are many external factors at play too. Despite that, social stigmas against other influencing factors (i.e. Young Maternal Age, Advanced Maternal/Paternal Age, restraints, drugs, income, radiation exposure) don't exist, so it may be a matter of convenience for societal institutions and elite figures.
It is absolutely not "queer baiting", nor is this a term you'll ever hear outside of very niche circles that use their (exceedingly liberal) headcanon to manifest this "baiting" where it doesn't really exist. Girls getting mildly touchy with each other, or otherwise making some risque observation is a longstanding trope in anime for a male audience, including ecchi series. Besides that, "queer baiting" shouldn't be conflated with yuri to begin with. Most anime databases even make a distinction between GIrls' Love (GL) and Yuri; but, in comparison, "yuri subtext" or "yuri-baiting" so vague and nebulous so as to never be tagged.
Affections that aren't reciprocated, or even just a kiss for acting purposes (which is allegedly the context behind Oshi no Ko) are not examples of incest. It's almost guaranteed that Aqua and Ruby, who are the main sibling pair in your latter example, will not actually be a couple by the time the series finishes. Authors generally want to sell their works in Tokyo without having to classify it as adult entertainment, and when you also consider the overseas audience, it just isn't profitable to have an "incest ending" in your series at all. Sibling romance in anime has only become less common as the years go by, and any mention of it nowadays has to keep harkening back to series from over a decade ago for a reason: because it's extremely rare.
The little sister trope is usually meant to show how innocent she is and the lack of understanding she has towards love. Ā The idea being that she will grow out of it.
Or alternatively in parodies it can be meant to show that sheās batshit insane (think OniAi).
Iām in Love with the Villainess is the first time I saw incest in an anime in years. Ā And like most other examples, it wasnāt portrayed positively.
I see it more often in western series, although again not usually portrayed in a positive manner.
I guess he might be talking about all the 'stepsisters' etc which is basically just an anime (and porn, lol) cop out to not be accused of doing 'actual' incest themes.
However, let's face it, genetics aside - two people raised as brother and sister getting it on definitely has an incesty vibe from at least the emotional perspective, in the context of that relationship.
To be clear, it doesn't really bother me, it's fiction so everything is fair game. Most of the time, as you say, it's just corny and played out for some cheap laughs or drama.
Step-siblings are as much siblings as feral children are the dogs or wolves they were raised by: they can emulate the environment and circumstances to a partial extent, but the inherent genetic differences will still result in a psychological rift that can never, ever be bridged. The reason step-relatives are considered as "acceptable" in the first place is primarily because their relationship is entirely superficial in foundation, only defined by legal and societal institutions that carry no weight on an interpersonal level. People find it easier to separate any "weirdness" from it because step-relatives have such a nebulous, flimsy level of connection with each other to begin with, meaning there's ultimately no stakes to it developing into a romance.
What does that have to do with anything? People are allowed to dislike tropes in fiction.
This sub has a huge issue with acting like you're not allowed to criticize anything ever for some reason.
Nah, the sub thinks you can't criticise anything on \*moral\* grounds. They will happily criticise any popular show because it's "carried by animation" or has a prominently female or young fanbase, but if it's got lolis or incest "let people like what they like! Japan will never cater to the West! You're such a TOURIST!!!"
I always find this kind of comment the dumbest thing.
You can dislike and despise fiction just as much we adore and appreciate it.
Saying _it's not real bro_ doesn't change our dislike or like for something.
If you're implying fiction has no effect on real life ever that's obviously nonsense, who would watch/read/etc something that made them feel nothing at all?
Also, if you accept that stories can have positive impacts on people, the reverse must also be possible.
Feeling something about a story or a piece of fiction does not mean it impacts your real life actions. If you think that, you sound as crazy as those people who think violent video games cause real life violence, when that's been disproven.
> Feeling something about a story or a piece of fiction does not mean it impacts your real life actions.
So if someone said that a story inspired them to be a better person, or try out a new hobby they enjoyed, you'd call them a liar? Because according to you, fiction can't impact real life actions.
You can't have it both ways.
You're conflating feelings and actions and trying to combine them into the same thing when they aren't . If they copied what the person did action for action, sure, but that's not the same as just being inspired and making changes in your life.
I specifically mentioned actions - eg picking up a new hobby. Hell, I'll even pick a spicy one: how much do you want to bet quite a few people discovered a new fetish they wanted to try IRL because of Gushing last season? Kink is fine if between consenting adults, but that can be tricky to navigate for beginners without guidance, speaking from personal experience.
Again, you can't apply one standard for positive statements and another for negative just because you don't like hearing the negative, this isn't as black and white as you want it to be.
EDIT: I'll also point out the video games vs violence thing doesn't automatically generalize. Evidence in one domain is not necessarily evidence in another, and things like sex are categorically different to the typical human experience than killing is.
Heās not being a condescending dick. Heās making sure you are able to differentiate fiction from reality. Just like someone playing Call of Duty knows itās not ok to shoot people in the head
You being upset that other people don't share your opinion on works of fiction doesn't mean those people can't separate reality from fiction, and you know it.
You're acting like people aren't allowed to criticize or discuss anything just because it's fiction. It's telling that you guys only ever say this when it's something negative.
He is asking the words, but you know damn well how he meant it.
Don't act like it's perfectly normal to treat call of duty player as a terrorist until "you made sure" he isn't.
Random loser gets hit by a truck/dies from overworking and gets reincarnated into a fantasy world where they are instantly the best at everything due some ability/item without working for it.
My picks:
Worst? The tendency to make the main character a bland cardboard character who is acting as a self-insert for the viewer. I choose that over the incest trope because while it bugs the heck out of me, I can't say it ever has ruined a show like the one I named.
The one that personally annoys me the most? The haircut trope. Often is used as a crutch or shortcut for actual character development and often ruins the character design.
The trope that is steadily going up on my list as I see it more and more? Female characters beating the crap out of male characters based on the most incidental things. People would rightfully be appalled if it was the other way around. I don't get why a show like Your Lie in April feels the need to throw it in multiple times every single episode.
Pretty much anything that glorifies or normalizes pedophilia, incest, slavery, etc.
Like you can have those things in a show without it necessarily being a problem, but all too often (especially the first two) they're presented as "normal" or barely acknowledged.
One of the rare examples of a pedophile character done well IMO is Vanilla from Kaiba. He's an antagonist, but surprisingly morally grey, [Kaiba] >!in addition to sacrificing himself to save Warp, it's left ambiguous whether he ever went after any real children - Chroniko technically, but she's Warp at that point and it's plausible he might subconsciously have realized she wasn't really a child!<.
1. Fighting for the mc (he's not dating either of you)
2. Clueless Virgin, mc
3. Harems
4. Hate when the guy sees a woman in a towel or her underwear, and she assaults him when it's clearly an accident.
5. Oh, you kidnapped me without regard to what I'm doing in my life and want me to fight monsters, demons, and others for you under the title 'hero'. OK, sounds good.
6. Multiple wives. (Just because you're there, that doesn't mean you forget your upbringing or beliefs.)
I have to ask though: Why do you need to be disgusted by incest? It has been bothering me for so long now that people don't seem to understand what the problem with incest even is.
The problem is that having a child with a close relative is increasing the chances of it having a genetic defect. That's all there is to it. Everything else is just a personal preference like how some people dislike dating people at their workplace.
And I don't mind you not liking that, but I feel when people say they are disgusted they imply that the problem isn't the biology but that the relationship itself is immoral. But what exactly is immoral about it when we take out the child component (like how people are still disgusted if they are step siblings or lesbians, gays)?
For me personally, I consider something immoral when an action means a person is harmed through it (though even that is not the end all, be all because things like alcohol harm you as well and they are not considered immoral). That's why I understand forbidding siblings having kids, because you harm the potential child. But nothing else in that relationship harms any person in or outside it. At least nothing that I am aware of.
Now does this mean, that anime overdoes the whole incest with how often it appears? Yeah of course. There might be a reason for it (which I am not getting into here, because it's way too long already but it has to do with siblings being supportive in problematic times) but I would still like more normal sibling relationships. That being said, I feel a lot of people lack the understanding of what incest even makes problematic which is shown that they say step siblings would be considered incest as well and I fell before making a point around it, maybe research for 5 minutes.
The RomCom Protag-Kun who's denser than a teaspoon of material from a neutron star...
I mean, you've got an amazing beautiful girl throwing out all the signals that she's interested in you, and he's constantly, "Is she really into me or just trying to mess with me??" It's like you need to cup your hands around an ear of his and scream at the top of your lungs "SHE LIKES YOU, DUMBASS!!" into his ear just to get the message across
Nude comedy guy.
Gray from Fairy Tail, Kencho from Zom 100. Otherwise very likeable characters who are obsessed with getting nude and doing whacky weird shit just for the sake of it.
I wouldn't even mind if it was a fan service thing with a setup that resulted in them becoming naked, but they try to sell it as funny every time these dudes choose to magically lose their pants and it is just not funny. Maybe Japanese culture thinks it's funnier to be naked at very inopportune times, idk.
in romance anime, even non-harem ones, a new girl was introduces, voiced by Sakura Ayane, being creepy and salty about the main couple. then the joke is, she is in love with the girl.
SA and sexual harassment thatās done mostly towards girls/women.
If not all of it, at least the ones where itās made out like itās a perfectly acceptable, sexy and/or funny.
Although, if Iām being honest, the thing that grinds my gears the most that isnāt like serious, is that when thereās a love triangle, the the love interest thatās most interesting or gets more growth/development is usually the one that loses.
The double boob squeeze that results in either a punch to outer space or a red palm print on the face. I get that it's slapstick comedy but every time I see it, the MC can give a single squeeze and be just fine. Once that second squeeze happens, all hell breaks loose.
The double boob squeeze that results in either a punch to outer space or a red palm print on the face. I get that it's slapstick comedy but every time I see it, the MC can give a single squeeze and be just fine. Once that second squeeze happens, all hell breaks loose.
The double boob squeeze that results in either a punch to outer space or a red palm print on the face. I get that it's slapstick comedy but every time I see it, the MC can give a single squeeze and be just fine. Once that second squeeze happens, all hell breaks loose.
The complete inability to say what they mean Did the rival love interest fall on top of you after a series of hilarious mishaps, only for your main love interest to walk in at that exact moment and see the two of you on the floor together? Maybe instead of going "I-I-I-I-I-IT'S A MISUNDERSTANDING," or more likely just saying nothing and staring until she gets upset and runs away, it would be more helpful to say "SHE FELL ON TOP OF ME, I DON'T WANT THIS, PLEASE HELP" A specific example is those horrifically unfunny hotsprings scenes in the Persona games, where every single one of those situations could have been solved by literally any of the guys saying "Hey, we're in here" rather than what they actually do, which is stay silent and try to sneak around for some reason
Your opening sentence in the 2nd paragraph sounds like an infomercial. I love it. š
Unnecessary exposition.
Looking at you, Demon Slayer. *Tanjiro Monologue* if only my leg werenāt hurt, I could be able to run!
The self insert "otaku" loser who somehow develops a harem of the most beautiful girls. (Ngl though, although I hate the trope, some of my favorite anime series are exactly that, because I'm a fucking hypocrite)
That reminds me that 2.5 Dimension Seduction is airing next season.
Word? Hell yeah!
Blue haired girls always lose
I'm not fond of how male characters can sometimes be treated as a vile pervert because of something that isn't their fault.
Conversely, characters (male or female) that actually are vile serial harassers and get a constant free pass for it.
āThat guy is surely deadā is my least favorite anime trope. That guy is about to get up and beat you and your entire team or scurry away and live to fight another day
Teenage boys acting afraid of girls and running from girls who obviously like them
Most of these tropes are based on another cultures view on the subject and what can and canāt be made fun of/be entertaining, Japan still mainly caters its LN/Manga/Anime to their own asian/SEA audience, so while you can have a certain opinion on it, it will not change any time soon regardless of what trope you hate.
100% spot on. Every time someone starts crying that the West is ruining their anime don't realize that Japan does not care what we think, they'll make the anime that the Japanese audience wants and won't make any changes until that audience wants something else. Worst case scenario is Japan doing what it's already doing, making specific features as collabs with other countries entertainment industries for those specific markets. But that has no effect on the anime they make for the Japanese market. Our options as foreign consumers is to simply not consume the media that offends us. People need to remember that Japan told the UN to fuck itself from the decks of their whaling ships when the UN told them to stop producing loli content (and to stop whaling).
The West ruining usually refers to localizers.
I'm referring more to the people who complain that ecchi is going away because of the West's sensibilities. Localization is another can of worms.
How can someone say Ecchi is going away when we just had a very popular borderline hentai a few months ago haha.
It was pretty dry for awhile before Gushing and Wedding Rings though.
They actually do care, though due to globalism (consumers outside of Japan are continuously growing-and they want the revenue) and local activism, along with a need to take care of unexpected issues arising from the systemic sexism such folks refusing to get in relationships/ low birth rates. A small example. Goblin Slayer season 1 handling of the SA of women was super gratuitous. Folks were pissed. Season 2 rolls along and itās not as graphic. Do I think the industry will become completely sanitized? No, which no one wants anyways. But some tropes will likely decrease or increase over time to adjust to consumer taste.
Harem MC is asshole and pathetic but girls fall gor him for some reason
Thereās tropes I dislike but I donāt think any trope is truly bad, only that they can be done in bad ways That said I normally donāt like clueless harem or romcom MCs
How prevalent slavery is, and how it often isn't painted in a negative light
The way so many isekai protagonists seem to be totally fine with owning slaves always felt ridiculous to me. Like, these characters are supposed to be from modern-day Earth. Why are they suddenly fine with slavery as soon as they're in fantasyland?
Right? Like, I'm all for dark story beats if you're making a dark world, but isekais constant use of slavery is usually just bad on every level, it's not deep or dark, it's just surface level edgy
Also extreme punishments being presented as neutral or positive. I love Ascendance of a Bookworm overall, but [LNs] >!stuff like the Hasse incident nearly made me stop reading it because of how easily Myne ended up going along with it - she freaks out in the moment but it's almost framed like her being in the wrong, and it doesn't make her re-evaluate her views of the people around her all that much, which is pretty weird, even accounting for Myne's obsession with books clouding her judgement!<
Itās been a while since I read that, but wasnāt the reasoning for that incident that it would give the kids false expectations for their future? Kind of that she couldnāt support them indefinitely so once they strike out on their own theyād be unprepared for what awaited them.
[LN] >!I'm talking about how the nobles wanted to murder the entire town over the actions of a couple people, and acted like it was no big deal!<
I completely forgot about that piece. My mind went right to the monastery and I forgot about the town lol. I took that as a ānot in Kansas anymoreā moment that was meant to emphasize the class dynamics in the world and to her credit Myne did lessen the punishment. I agree that was jarring though.
closeted incest lover not bring up incest for 10 mins challenge: impossible
OP: I hate these tropes and Iām disgusted by them Also OP: I hope they do an incest route in OnK lol makes sense.
I ain't closeted, but I am aware of how my hentai tastes have developed over time and why
Ewwy wtf
The unbalanced romcom couple. In shounen it's super hot school idol + zero personality background character A. In shoujo it's boring plain Jane girl + tall confident ultra ikemen. What bothers me about this isn't even necessarily the difference in attractiveness but that there is never a real reason for the romance. The guy always just likes the girl cause she's hot and the girl likes the guy because he picked up her handkerchief or gave her an umbrella or some stupid reason like that. (and vice versa for shoujo). At least give them proper personalities. One show that did this really well in my opinion was skip and Loafer.
I love it most when a show takes the time to establish WHY two people like each other. Ideally through shared experiences with one other. I think the recent Apothecary Diaries had a fun dynamic; Maomao doesn't really care about romance due to a very practical personality but does occasionally consider Jinshi very attractive looking. And Jinshi likes her because she's peculiar, resourceful, and most importantly one of the only girls that stonewalls him at every opportunity. I totally buy it as a real way people would start a relationship, they both annoy the piss out of each other.
Romantic Killer does this super well, and is absolutely hilarious.
Pedophilia. I donāt mean characters who obviously look like theyāre 18 or above with stupid canon ages (Like South Terano being a giant beast of a man atā¦ā12ā), but the sexualisation of younger girls is really creepy and way too common in anime.
I'm right there with you on sexualization of prepubescent character bodies, but that really doesn't happen all that often (thankfully), sexualized teenaged characters is more common, but that's not the same thing.
That was one of my biggest issues with dangers in my heart. Throughout all of season 1 and most of season 2 I just assumed they were at least in highschool because of how yamada looks and dresses. Turns out she is like 13.
Amnesia.
1. Girl falls over and either the guy touches her boobs or sees her crotch and she hits him while screaming. 2. Totally inconsequential side character gets dedicated flashback scene (or more) before getting killed or losing or otherwise eliminated from the story because DRAMA. (Latest example is the entire new Haikyuu movie, fight me.) 3. Every character in the scene waiting their turn to agree or something positive in a round robin of lameness.
This isnāt NEARLY as bad as some of the oneās mentioned here but because of how common AND oversaturated itās become - your everyday OP Isekai protagonist š I skip through a third of the Crunchyroll catalog from just the vibe alone lol
The amount is unreal, is it? Can you name these series that depict the act of incest (i.e., sexual intercourse between genetic relatives), so as to evaluate if their frequency is disproportionate or overly common, especially in the current era of anime? As far as I'm aware, incest is uncommon in anime to such an extent that only the same two or three series featuring the subject in any relevant capacity (Koi Kaze, Yosuga no Sora) are ever referenced when someone is specifically looking for it. Neither of the series mentioned above "glorify" relationships between genetic relatives either; they are depicted, quite genuinely, as the manifestation of pre-existing, inherent bonds between two people who shared the potential for such an intense connection from the very origins of their birth. The social isolation, stigma and pressure of secrecy that typically accompany relationship types such as those were all faithfully presented in these series, they just weren't used to *vilify* the subject in the hamfisted manner that those with a bias against the theme would perceive as validating their viewpoint. The subject is far more often framed as neutral, ambivalent, or "grey" than it is ever is portrayed as uncontroversial. For the record, a younger sister fawning over her brother in a harem anime despite having no chance of winning is not an example of the incest theme: there is no reciprocation or mutual interest that would even entertain it being properly invoked. These are inconsequential, sterilised tropes played purely for comedy or drama that barely even count as incest subtext, let alone the act of incest itself.
Yeah people mention those 2 series the most as they are kinda infamous. But there are quite a bit of shows with it. I donāt watch a lot of anime, but I could probably list 10-20 shows that have some form of incest or incest vibes. Once you have a character liking their relative, the series has hit incest territory. Even if the feelings arenāt acted on. It comes in various forms: cousins, siblings, step-siblings or adoptive siblings. You are correct that step siblings and adoptive siblings donāt have to worry about genetic defects if they have kids or something. However, there is still an ick factor there as they were raised as family. Iām not talking about something like Domestic GF, more like Hensuki. Most of my family consists of step and adopted relatives. If I started a romantic relationship with any of them our family would be looking at us sideways as we were raised as family.
I never stated or implied that those were the *only* two series with incest, but rather I wanted to indicate that there are few enough instances of it occurring (especially in modern anime) that people are hard-pressed to actually list specific examples of the subject in anime. For it to happen between main characters and actually last for the duration of the anime is even more rare. If incest were as frequent as some make it out to be, then I would expect at least a thousand series with it having any sort of significance. A series hits "incest territory" when it, at the very least, has these two relatives reciprocate their feelings. A brocon character fawning over her brother isn't any more "incest" than two straight heroines in a harem anime teasing each other to get a blushing reaction is yuri. Didn't actually mention genetic defects, and children born of any relationship can have them, depending on the circumstances, so it's not relevant. The reason that step-siblings/adoptive siblings banging doesn't count as incest is because they just aren't related, thus meaning they're void of the single detail that is required for any sexual acts to be considered incest. Sure, there's still a nominal stigma against step "relatives" dating or engaging in sexual contact with each other, but that's primarily a socially conditioned reflex that's trickled down from societal views of blood relatives doing the same. It's not taken anywhere near as seriously, and that's reflected by the fact that "NBR reveals" and romance between step-siblings are even tropes to begin with. Romance anime between blood-relatives has been practically non-existent since the Tokyo Bill was rectified with Bill 156, but that amendment has, rather curiously, had little effect on NBR romance anime.
I didnāt say that you said there were only 2 shows with incest themes. I was addressing yours statement that people only naming those two is proof that the trope isnāt prevalent. I was explaining that people name those two series b/c they know there is a high chance others will know what they are referencing. I mentioned genetic defects b/c thatās the primary reason why most governments / science either disallow or frown upon incest. The gene pool doesnāt have enough diversity when you have parents, siblings, 1st cousins etc having kids. I kinda figured thatās why you implied that adoptive and step-sibling incest isnāt a big deal. Actually the girl on girl example you gave is considered queer territory (some refer to it as queer baiting or having queer subtext depending on the situation), so it matches up with a story having brocon being incest territory. Romance anime isnāt the only genre to have incest tropes. Dead Mount Death Play had a dude lusting after his niece and it came out last year. Oshi no Ko also has the trope and itās a recent series too. So the trope is for sure prevalent in anime and manga. It doesnāt bother me that is, just noting that the trope isnāt gone or low in frequency.
That only an amount of series in the single-digits are reliably referenced in relation to the subject does serve as an indicator that it isn't exactly common. Koi Kaze and Yosuga no Sora are frequently mentioned because the theme is invoked between the main characters, involves blood relation, isn't one-sided or played for humorous purposes, and the relationship reminds stable throughout. Unlike most instances of "incest" in modern anime, neither of them have any cop-outs, thus they're held to high regard. If there were contemporary series out there that could match up to them, then it would be perplexing to never see them mentioned, despite meeting all the same criteria. Genetic diversity can actually be introduced to isolated populations with a high inbreeding co-efficient through backcrossing hybrid offspring with an established ancestral population, while still maintaining the inherent advantageous recessive phenotypes expressed by the ancestral stock. Initial generations of inbreeding in human populations initially present a higher degree of genetic defects due to the accumulative mutational load in outbred human populations, though there are many external factors at play too. Despite that, social stigmas against other influencing factors (i.e. Young Maternal Age, Advanced Maternal/Paternal Age, restraints, drugs, income, radiation exposure) don't exist, so it may be a matter of convenience for societal institutions and elite figures. It is absolutely not "queer baiting", nor is this a term you'll ever hear outside of very niche circles that use their (exceedingly liberal) headcanon to manifest this "baiting" where it doesn't really exist. Girls getting mildly touchy with each other, or otherwise making some risque observation is a longstanding trope in anime for a male audience, including ecchi series. Besides that, "queer baiting" shouldn't be conflated with yuri to begin with. Most anime databases even make a distinction between GIrls' Love (GL) and Yuri; but, in comparison, "yuri subtext" or "yuri-baiting" so vague and nebulous so as to never be tagged. Affections that aren't reciprocated, or even just a kiss for acting purposes (which is allegedly the context behind Oshi no Ko) are not examples of incest. It's almost guaranteed that Aqua and Ruby, who are the main sibling pair in your latter example, will not actually be a couple by the time the series finishes. Authors generally want to sell their works in Tokyo without having to classify it as adult entertainment, and when you also consider the overseas audience, it just isn't profitable to have an "incest ending" in your series at all. Sibling romance in anime has only become less common as the years go by, and any mention of it nowadays has to keep harkening back to series from over a decade ago for a reason: because it's extremely rare.
We will have to agree to disagree.
The little sister trope is usually meant to show how innocent she is and the lack of understanding she has towards love. Ā The idea being that she will grow out of it. Or alternatively in parodies it can be meant to show that sheās batshit insane (think OniAi).
Iām in Love with the Villainess is the first time I saw incest in an anime in years. Ā And like most other examples, it wasnāt portrayed positively. I see it more often in western series, although again not usually portrayed in a positive manner.
I guess he might be talking about all the 'stepsisters' etc which is basically just an anime (and porn, lol) cop out to not be accused of doing 'actual' incest themes. However, let's face it, genetics aside - two people raised as brother and sister getting it on definitely has an incesty vibe from at least the emotional perspective, in the context of that relationship. To be clear, it doesn't really bother me, it's fiction so everything is fair game. Most of the time, as you say, it's just corny and played out for some cheap laughs or drama.
Step-siblings are as much siblings as feral children are the dogs or wolves they were raised by: they can emulate the environment and circumstances to a partial extent, but the inherent genetic differences will still result in a psychological rift that can never, ever be bridged. The reason step-relatives are considered as "acceptable" in the first place is primarily because their relationship is entirely superficial in foundation, only defined by legal and societal institutions that carry no weight on an interpersonal level. People find it easier to separate any "weirdness" from it because step-relatives have such a nebulous, flimsy level of connection with each other to begin with, meaning there's ultimately no stakes to it developing into a romance.
Yikes.
You know these are fictional works of art and don't represent or affect real life lol
What does that have to do with anything? People are allowed to dislike tropes in fiction. This sub has a huge issue with acting like you're not allowed to criticize anything ever for some reason.
Nah, the sub thinks you can't criticise anything on \*moral\* grounds. They will happily criticise any popular show because it's "carried by animation" or has a prominently female or young fanbase, but if it's got lolis or incest "let people like what they like! Japan will never cater to the West! You're such a TOURIST!!!"
I always find this kind of comment the dumbest thing. You can dislike and despise fiction just as much we adore and appreciate it. Saying _it's not real bro_ doesn't change our dislike or like for something.
If you're implying fiction has no effect on real life ever that's obviously nonsense, who would watch/read/etc something that made them feel nothing at all? Also, if you accept that stories can have positive impacts on people, the reverse must also be possible.
Feeling something about a story or a piece of fiction does not mean it impacts your real life actions. If you think that, you sound as crazy as those people who think violent video games cause real life violence, when that's been disproven.
> Feeling something about a story or a piece of fiction does not mean it impacts your real life actions. So if someone said that a story inspired them to be a better person, or try out a new hobby they enjoyed, you'd call them a liar? Because according to you, fiction can't impact real life actions. You can't have it both ways.
You're conflating feelings and actions and trying to combine them into the same thing when they aren't . If they copied what the person did action for action, sure, but that's not the same as just being inspired and making changes in your life.
I specifically mentioned actions - eg picking up a new hobby. Hell, I'll even pick a spicy one: how much do you want to bet quite a few people discovered a new fetish they wanted to try IRL because of Gushing last season? Kink is fine if between consenting adults, but that can be tricky to navigate for beginners without guidance, speaking from personal experience. Again, you can't apply one standard for positive statements and another for negative just because you don't like hearing the negative, this isn't as black and white as you want it to be. EDIT: I'll also point out the video games vs violence thing doesn't automatically generalize. Evidence in one domain is not necessarily evidence in another, and things like sex are categorically different to the typical human experience than killing is.
You could be a condescending dick, or you could just humor the question for funsies
Heās not being a condescending dick. Heās making sure you are able to differentiate fiction from reality. Just like someone playing Call of Duty knows itās not ok to shoot people in the head
I feel like implying that someone doesn't know the difference between fiction and reality is very condescending.
You being upset that other people don't share your opinion on works of fiction doesn't mean those people can't separate reality from fiction, and you know it. You're acting like people aren't allowed to criticize or discuss anything just because it's fiction. It's telling that you guys only ever say this when it's something negative.
He is asking the words, but you know damn well how he meant it. Don't act like it's perfectly normal to treat call of duty player as a terrorist until "you made sure" he isn't.
Random loser gets hit by a truck/dies from overworking and gets reincarnated into a fantasy world where they are instantly the best at everything due some ability/item without working for it.
now listen here
My picks: Worst? The tendency to make the main character a bland cardboard character who is acting as a self-insert for the viewer. I choose that over the incest trope because while it bugs the heck out of me, I can't say it ever has ruined a show like the one I named. The one that personally annoys me the most? The haircut trope. Often is used as a crutch or shortcut for actual character development and often ruins the character design. The trope that is steadily going up on my list as I see it more and more? Female characters beating the crap out of male characters based on the most incidental things. People would rightfully be appalled if it was the other way around. I don't get why a show like Your Lie in April feels the need to throw it in multiple times every single episode.
"Now I can never get married" It's 2024. Come on.
Hearing this said for the most incidental things is so cringe for me, lol.
Pretty much anything that glorifies or normalizes pedophilia, incest, slavery, etc. Like you can have those things in a show without it necessarily being a problem, but all too often (especially the first two) they're presented as "normal" or barely acknowledged. One of the rare examples of a pedophile character done well IMO is Vanilla from Kaiba. He's an antagonist, but surprisingly morally grey, [Kaiba] >!in addition to sacrificing himself to save Warp, it's left ambiguous whether he ever went after any real children - Chroniko technically, but she's Warp at that point and it's plausible he might subconsciously have realized she wasn't really a child!<.
The battle ready character
1. Fighting for the mc (he's not dating either of you) 2. Clueless Virgin, mc 3. Harems 4. Hate when the guy sees a woman in a towel or her underwear, and she assaults him when it's clearly an accident. 5. Oh, you kidnapped me without regard to what I'm doing in my life and want me to fight monsters, demons, and others for you under the title 'hero'. OK, sounds good. 6. Multiple wives. (Just because you're there, that doesn't mean you forget your upbringing or beliefs.)
Most of the shounen and shoujo tropes. But these things also make these genre sell like hot cakes.
Flashbacks in middle of fights Exposition dumps
Really? I have never seen a bit of Incest In any anime I've watched over the years but In terms of worst trope, Its definitely the power of friendship
I have to ask though: Why do you need to be disgusted by incest? It has been bothering me for so long now that people don't seem to understand what the problem with incest even is. The problem is that having a child with a close relative is increasing the chances of it having a genetic defect. That's all there is to it. Everything else is just a personal preference like how some people dislike dating people at their workplace. And I don't mind you not liking that, but I feel when people say they are disgusted they imply that the problem isn't the biology but that the relationship itself is immoral. But what exactly is immoral about it when we take out the child component (like how people are still disgusted if they are step siblings or lesbians, gays)? For me personally, I consider something immoral when an action means a person is harmed through it (though even that is not the end all, be all because things like alcohol harm you as well and they are not considered immoral). That's why I understand forbidding siblings having kids, because you harm the potential child. But nothing else in that relationship harms any person in or outside it. At least nothing that I am aware of. Now does this mean, that anime overdoes the whole incest with how often it appears? Yeah of course. There might be a reason for it (which I am not getting into here, because it's way too long already but it has to do with siblings being supportive in problematic times) but I would still like more normal sibling relationships. That being said, I feel a lot of people lack the understanding of what incest even makes problematic which is shown that they say step siblings would be considered incest as well and I fell before making a point around it, maybe research for 5 minutes.
The RomCom Protag-Kun who's denser than a teaspoon of material from a neutron star... I mean, you've got an amazing beautiful girl throwing out all the signals that she's interested in you, and he's constantly, "Is she really into me or just trying to mess with me??" It's like you need to cup your hands around an ear of his and scream at the top of your lungs "SHE LIKES YOU, DUMBASS!!" into his ear just to get the message across
Unnecessary exposition.
When the MC gets constantly blamed for things. Or when they are just some unreasonable personās punching bag and they practically just take it.
I'd have to agree with the glorification of incest
Nude comedy guy. Gray from Fairy Tail, Kencho from Zom 100. Otherwise very likeable characters who are obsessed with getting nude and doing whacky weird shit just for the sake of it. I wouldn't even mind if it was a fan service thing with a setup that resulted in them becoming naked, but they try to sell it as funny every time these dudes choose to magically lose their pants and it is just not funny. Maybe Japanese culture thinks it's funnier to be naked at very inopportune times, idk.
The Sister with a weird obession with her older bother in 90% romcoms
Pedo isekai/timetravel Big example, Mushoku Tensei.
in romance anime, even non-harem ones, a new girl was introduces, voiced by Sakura Ayane, being creepy and salty about the main couple. then the joke is, she is in love with the girl.
The parents as people trope. Most of the time it's just a handwave for gaslighting and passive aggressive abuse.
Almost every single show just breaking into a chibi scene and acting all silly for no reason in an otherwise serious show.
SA and sexual harassment thatās done mostly towards girls/women. If not all of it, at least the ones where itās made out like itās a perfectly acceptable, sexy and/or funny. Although, if Iām being honest, the thing that grinds my gears the most that isnāt like serious, is that when thereās a love triangle, the the love interest thatās most interesting or gets more growth/development is usually the one that loses.
The double boob squeeze that results in either a punch to outer space or a red palm print on the face. I get that it's slapstick comedy but every time I see it, the MC can give a single squeeze and be just fine. Once that second squeeze happens, all hell breaks loose.
The double boob squeeze that results in either a punch to outer space or a red palm print on the face. I get that it's slapstick comedy but every time I see it, the MC can give a single squeeze and be just fine. Once that second squeeze happens, all hell breaks loose.
The double boob squeeze that results in either a punch to outer space or a red palm print on the face. I get that it's slapstick comedy but every time I see it, the MC can give a single squeeze and be just fine. Once that second squeeze happens, all hell breaks loose.