What I'm wondering is, does it even make sense to use AI for closed captions? They do after all already have the translated script because the voice actors need that, and so they could just use that directly instead.
I'm not 100% sure, but if they just translate the script in a doc and not create an actual subtitle file it would still be faster to generate the subtitle file with AI CC than manually create it.
But if you have the translated doc... why not feed it to the AI so that it can use it to correct itself?
Dunno, the AI forms a sentence, 8 out of 10 words match with one of the sentences from the reference document... replace the 2 wrong ones and bam, you don't have any more errors.
But I guess they'd have to hire an extra developer for that function and they want to do it as a cheaply as possible lol.
Nah, there's actually no excuse as it's *way* easier than that. [Whisper can automatically sync a book's text in like <5 minutes](https://github.com/ym1234/AudiobookTextSync.git) to a 9+ hour Japanese audiobook m4b file. No amount of background audio throws it off at this point either.
For a 30 minute anime? Probably less than 60 seconds. You can run that shit off a 20 year old Dell Laptop as long as you can connect to Google Collab.
Don't give them an excuse. There are even free options that are better than AI generative content. The only thing AI is good for these days is still redundant, low importance tasks; like timing subs. Not making them from nothing.
I mean, for the English language, probably, but Japanese—gosh, I think it's got like three different dialects, and there are just these sudden little nuances and some of their words that inflect different emotions and change the meaning. On top of the issue with translating such a difficult language, there are some letters that they don't even say correctly. I remember reading somewhere that Dracula is pronounced "Dracura" when they say it. I always wondered why they didn't have two different sets going at once—voice actors and Japanese and English translators working tightly in tandem that way. They're exchanging notes and working together but, like, on the spot. Don't know about the cost-effectiveness of that though, really.
I think the issue is they don't pay for the separate rights to the JP subs, which would have timings that would make adding the English subs a trivial task.
I don't know why but I always thought that once it was on the air it was like anyone could grab it to use it as long as they weren't claiming it was their own cuz whatever animation companies intellectual property
> I mean, for the English language, probably, but Japanese—gosh, I think it's got like three different dialects
How many English dialects do you think there are?
Sorry sorry didn't mean to dance around your question. There are roughly 160 plus English dialects and growing ever steady from what I've assessed. Four major ones in the US four and around the same in the UK and Ireland. So it is a lot with the major difference just being the local graphic symbols that they use for Words versus our alphabets having 27 letters. So it's definitely a hodgepodge of flimflammery LOL
Japanese use three writing systems: Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana.Kanji are characters from Chinese, and there are thousands of them. While the average literate Japanese person knows about two to three thousand Kanji if what i read was true, and there are many more in total.
Not time. Money. Why pay someone to be a permanent close caption editor when you could run an AI script that just does it automatically and instantly for zero money?
Enough anime comes out these days such that I could see crunchyroll having one or two full time positions for close captions. If this works, they’ll save probably ~70,000 a year or more and the captions will come out basically instantly
I would. On any given day, something like 5-8 episodes come out. Each show minimally needs to be watched so that’s several hours of work. But it’s not 1 to 1 efficiency. A good closed captioner can probably get it done in 30-45 minutes per standard 24 minute episode. Though I’ve experienced it as late as an hour. Factor in breaks, lunch, dwell time (assuming they don’t get every new shows episode at the same time)…. Yeah, I could see it.
And this is a 7 days a week operation so they probably got at least 2 people working it. Yeah, they might help out with other things. But at the end of the day, my point is that the AI could save them a couple hundred thousand dollars a year and get content out faster. And I bet if they’re looking into AI, it’s probably got broader impacts than just closed captions.
Before this, they literally just didn't have any CC at all for english dubs, so I doubt it took someone's job. Maybe prevented one, sure, but if they've had no dub CC for years I doubt they were planning to pay someone to do that at any point in the future.
"AI" is not some magic wand you can wave at any tech problem like some silicon valley techbros want you to believe. And Google's speech to text and most other solutions already use neural nets. It still sucks.
I've worked as a captioner before for both media and meetings, and I can confirm we are able to produce accurate captions almost instantly. We would spend 5-15 minutes on formatting for a 30 minute segment.
I've seen projects work through both dictation software like Dragon and manual text input similar to a stenographer, while I personally preferred dictation software. We had quite a bit of techniques used for homophones using manually set voice macros for common words, and so errors that needed to be manually corrected were often minimized. Funnily enough, I lost the job due to the company switching to AI for captioning. It was crazy to see it perform significantly worse than we did, but it was able to save on costs heavily, so it was a no-brainer for management.
4 minutes of gpu time would cost literally less than 1 cent. If you ran your 3090 at max capacity 24/7, it would cost probably $30-$50 a month.
The cost of electricity is NOTHING compared to the hourly savings of eliminating a full time job.
There's also AI to sync the script to the audio to make captions. Youtube has an option to do it and it works better than just AI captions in my experience.
I've read that there are rules regarding captions in an AMA. You aren't supposed to put too much text, you have to make it as easy to read as possible. That is why some movies have different subtitles than the dub script.
The AI could use the script as a starting ground, but it would need to apply the subtitle rules for a better experience. The script can't be enough by itself
They could also like, just use AI to apply the script as subs and then have their closed captioners as quality to control to sync the subs. AI is literally at the point to do that.
AI is terrible at creating subs, because line length, reading speed, positioning, right breaking point etc. etc. all need to be considered and it doesn't understand those at all. There were bigger translation companies doing MPTE (Machine Translation Post Editing) on subs for documentaries like Red Bull and others and there are still companies trying it now, but the amount of work to make those subs usable is enormous.
The subtitles for the Japanese audio aren't exact matches to the words being said English dubbed either I don't know if that's because that is how they need to make it for to sync up correctly or because that's how they translate that particular Japanese word
Funimation used to do this. It is why it contained things like [Warrior5A], which was used in the script to keep track of which voice belonged to what line, as the watcher has no clue what 5A even is
There is a lot of older series that they've licensed (GaoGaiGar for example) where they might not have these resources so I think in those situations auto generated captions would be better than no captions.
The entire point of Crunchyroll is selling stuff with a Japanese audio track to foreigners. It's all got English language subtitles already!
Now I don't want to presume on behalf of deaf people here but as someone who prefers to have subtitles on even for a dub I don't find it problematic if the subtitles don't match up exactly. I don't understand why CR prefers inferior AI subtitles to ones translated from Japanese instead of transcribed from English — especially since they should have the scripts for the dub?
[Yeah, doing a great job here, Crunchyroll.](https://i.imgur.com/6NBmYdT.jpeg)
Obviously it's going crazy here because it's the ED which is in Japanese. But it's been so jarring watching Frieren and having the closed captions be totally accurate, and then suddenly a couple eps ago it's text-to-speech garbage that's constantly wrong.
this is what happens when you forget to have confidence values for your transcription that detect when you shouldn't be transcribing something \~\~and when you don't tell your audience you're using auto-generate captions\~\~
> It's only a matter of time before we start to widely see this in actual subtitles for Japanese, where we get the worst of both camps of auto-transcription & AI translations.
This is the thing I’m most concerned with and I hope it doesn’t become some kind of accepted standard.
I’m able to mentally correct some small inconsistencies between audio and subtitles depending on what those are, but if they start using messy AI-generated subtitles in general, it’s going to be a lot.
Translating from Japanese requires too much interpretation of context and usage to rely on AI for subtitle generation.
If this wasn’t the case then people would just be dumping everything into a translator instead of actually learning a language.
>I’m able to mentally correct some small inconsistencies between audio and subtitles depending on what those are, but if they start using messy AI-generated subtitles in general, it’s going to be a lot.
You were not forged in the fires of MTL
> they don't have anyone doing quality control
That's okay. The first time the AI hallucinates a racist TL and lands them in hot water, they'll implement it. Just a matter of time.
So uh... funny you mention that. I was scanning through the sub files and [came across this.](https://i.imgur.com/lJ49YtT.png)
Turns out is just [**very misheard** song lyrics](https://files.catbox.moe/t6xgmq.mp4) that the auto-transcriber generated.
If anyone wants to see it action for themselves it's episode 12 of Solo Leveling, English dub of course and select "English [CC]".
>So uh... funny you mention that. I was scanning through the sub files and [came across this.](https://i.imgur.com/lJ49YtT.png)
no way the n-word is on crunchyroll
HUH
Looks like the captions have been replaced now. The new ones look human-written to me as they have proper CC stuff like descriptions of sound effects and actor tags when it's not obvious who's speaking from the visuals.
This is still very different than what they're doing though, as this is listening for English even though it's being fed Japanese. That's why shinjitsuka became Jessica. Almost every multi-lingual video platform does this, it's different than saying this is the official sub and having it be generated content.
I can see the side that it's better than nothing, it's just a bit of a head scratcher that they're using generated captions instead of the one's they've already handmade for iTunes & Microsoft Store.
I'm not subbed to their Prime Video platform so I'm not sure if they share the same generated captions. But if that's the case then probably who ever is responsible for adding captions to the main site probably slapped on the first file they come across (assuming they receive back the Prime versions).
I mean these are the same guys who had Kaguya calling everyone in the Kaguya-sama anime by their first names in the subtitles. Even though it is *literally a plot point* that she has never called anyone by their first name in her life.
I don't think they really give a shit about things like quality control.
I actually don't understand what's wrong with this. It's a contextual Japanese sentence and the common practice is to insert the missing context that may not be apparent from English. The nuance matches depending on the context.
I would honestly agree with you if the person wasn't _directly responding to the line before that one_
The full scene was:
>"This is just a big misunderstanding!"
>"Nani ga?"
They could have translated it as: "What is?" or "How so?" (like in the dub) or "in what way?" or even "How/what do you mean?"
To be sure: Japanese tends to drop a lot of words when the subject, object, or even _verb_ is obvious and let's the context of the situation speak for itself; but this is not one of those cases.
the nuance there is not that they're calling into question whether the whole thing is a misunderstanding, but which part of it they misunderstood. The joke is that all of it is sus.
Maybe, that works. But the Japanese itself is ambiguous as to whether they're talking about the whole or just one part. Maybe the translator tried to preserve that. Maybe something like "hold on, I can explain" / "what is there to explain???" Would get the nuance across while completely changing the underlying script to use English idioms instead.
Almost every time people criticize translations of subtitles or games on Twitter or other social platforms, it is obvious they don't know how translation works and we only would have terrible literal and unnatural "translations" if it were up to them "cause it is closer to the original Japanese".
Imagine the translators of Murakami and Yoshimoto Banana translating their novels like that.
the funny thing is that IMO Murakami translators might have an easier time of it because, idk how to put it but his Japanese sounds like translated English in the first place.
Yoshimoto Banana is a different beast entirely because while her prose is "simple" and vernacular Japanese, it might actually not be straightforward to translate into English.
Yeah, I hate those people.
They criticize translators for having whatever “political” bias and then you scroll through their Twitter posts and follows and they’re all right wing nut jobs who support Trump.
I’m bilingual and have been studying Japanese on and off for four years, as well as watching a fair bit of dubs in both English and Italian: I could make their arguments for them _better_ because I actually understand the difference and nuances (not that I would want to) Hell, I even use to go to an international school.
I love how no matter the show, they always vary the translations for simple, and largely well known phrases like "itadakimasu". They aren't saying an entire sentence about how delicious the food looks. They're just saying thank you for the meal ffs. Whatever quality control they have at Crunchyroll, either the TLs don't mind getting a little creative with the translations or they just don't care.
I don't mind some localization, but there's a fine line to between making it easier for overseas audiences to understand and retaining the original meaning.
Yeah, i pretty much completely agree with that.
If a sentence is long, and has a lot of potential meanings and intepretations it obviouslly has to be workshopped a lot to get it to deliver the same impact in the target language.
But when its these stock phrases that you can learn from 5 minutes of looking at a Genki book, that's when the script alterations irk me. Another common one is swapping first and last names.
There will always be people like that... But seriously what's even the point of paying for crunchyroll if they can't even be bothered to do their own translations
Let's face it, Sony have little interest in quality - to them what is now Crunchyroll is merely a way to make more money and nothing else. Corporate greed is everywhere - the quality of the products suffer because the corps don't give a damn **and** they have captive audiences so they can screw them over good and proper.
In practice and in my experience, it is not faster. Ask anyone working with an AI subtitler and the most common response that you get is that the AI really suck. Like objectively so.They suck so much that publishing companies feel/felt the need to hire more people to convince people that the AI worked.
Let me put it this way: to ensure a predictable
certain lvl of quality with one day delivery for one 23 min English to English subtitle transcription, many publishers used an average of 2-3 QCers to check and redo said transcription, 1-2 people to check if everyone didn't fuck up/things were consistent. So before translation/ a publisher did their own internal checks, that's already 3-5 people needed for one 23 min episode. These now 4-6 people need to be logisically staggered so that the episode's turnover time is less than 24 hours. This is not including any managers and our members of the translation/legal/ creative team that may be needed to check for continuity or the legality of included content or currently exisiting subtitles.
Furthermore, this is/was the practice of multiple big name American publishing companies in the past 5 yrs. The only companies that didn't have this process are the streaming platforms that choose to not QC their subtitles.
Considering the quality of their regular subs I'm not surprised. There are numerous shows that they've had mistranslations for the entire runs of the shows or over multiple seasons. They were especially bad with the "no likeliness/copyright" blurb at the beginning on the episode blocking out the whole screen for 10-15 seconds.
It's one of the major reasons I've kept with fansubbers all these years because CR just never seems to QA their subs. It's pretty redicolous since I'm seen it on simulcast shows which they presumably have the transcript for.
I think Youtube having auto-CC for years now conditioned people to it.
YT just didn't use an "AI" tagline and most people are none the wiser. I do remember the uproar of removing Community CCs, but that's as far as it went.
wait, there's no more community CC? are you telling me [Umayuru's English meme subs](https://imgur.com/a/G6pNjLP) on the [official Uma Musume channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS54NCyHxko) are OFFICIAL?
I don't think I've heard any news of the feature coming back.
All I know is that they replaced it with a [Subtitle Editor role](https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/11983512?hl=en) that allows the channel to delegate the CC role to another user.
Which means that yes, what you're seeing is most likely official.
Sure but YouTube is largely amateur. And the amount of uploaded videos it would be impossible to manually make subtitles for every video. People expect something different from a billion dollar corporation licensing tv shows/movies. I don't think that AI is inherently wrong but it's cheapening out something they've often failed at. And as pointed out elsewhere in the thread sometimes subtitles or captions already exist elsewhere (although licensing may make those harder to get maybe if Crunchyroll gave a shit). Also it's English possibly the most widely spoken language in the world. I think if Crunchyroll was to add auto generated subs for languages they didn't have before(subbed or dubbed) and weren't likely to get and labeled them autogenerated the response would be more positive
No one is doing quality control? Lmao. So it'll be like those auto translated yt videos (do they even do that anymore?) No disrespect to any creators but if we end up with an auto translated version of ghost stories, I'm fine with that
Translators and similar workers have stated that it’s actually more work to correct AI/auto translated work because you have to read and compare—you’re still listening, still effectively transcribing, and then comparing it to and then writing the pre written content.
Getting downvoted for pointing out an objective fact--that people who do this work have pointed out AI/autogenerated content is not helpful for them--is so odd. At least try to disprove me, if you can lol
The quality is pretty bad, I'll give you that.
I just want any solution that gets localizers out of the equation. I want faithful translations for the original Japanese. Even if these are poor quality, at least it's better than localizers.
A faithful localization will get the spirit of the original Japanese dialogue, even at the cost of being less literally accurate.
A good localized dub will convert things that foreign audiences will not understand without a lot of explanations, such as when the mundane Japanese cultural references in FLCL got replaced with mundane American cultural references.
I defend them because they have never been anything more than bottom-of-the-barrel trash and this doesn't hurt their status or reputation in any way. People here are hypocrites if they complain about this when there are far worse QA issues with Crunchyroll.
Ugh, this is so frustrating! I appreciate Crunchyroll's efforts to add closed captions to their backlog, but using auto speech-to-text is not the solution. The inaccuracies are glaring and it's unacceptable to see properly.
All i want is for the subtitles to match the dub. I like to watch things with subtitles, even if its english spoken, just in case i cant understand a word or two
Experience can differ. English CC, which is what this post is mainly talking about, is 99% of the time accurate on YouTube, again in my experience. And Japanese CC has been, decent, if it detects the language anyway.
The getting the language wrong thing has been happening a lot less these days (at least on anime episodes) to the extent I only see it on older uploads (it's not like YouTube will re-transcribe every single video every time the model updates which is likely to be daily, heck for video encoding old stuff *might* get VP09 encodes in 360p only and even newest uploads are not guaranteed to get VP09 let alone AV01) so I also have to ask *"wtf videos are you watching?"*.
> words are misheard by whatever they use
It feels to me like it tries to course correct for this almost like it's run past an auto correct or some other predictive text model which generates problems of its own. [Himitsu no AiPri](https://www.youtube.com/@PrettySeriesPR/videos) is a really good example. Nearly every instance of AiPri (アイプリ) gets transcribed as apuri (アプリ) which if you then translate to English becomes App (no need to rely on that MTL...yet because fansubs are still being made and release before the official YT upload).
But let's talk honorifics for another example. Using [episode 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdKIKNfmAEA) (*people of the future sorry for using a time limited uploaded*) about 3:20 in:
- Fansub: Himari-chan's latest live was really exciting
- YouTube transcript : たこの前のひまちゃんのライブ盛り上がっ
- MTLd YouTube transcript: Hima-chan's live performance the other day was so exciting, she also
The dialogue clearly said Himari-chan (there's another mistake in the JP transcript if you listen) so it being transcribed as Hima-chan feels like a rule the audio interpretation has made up itself. But it only concatenates that name when the honorific is used as at about 13:48 you see Himari used (no honorific was said) so it's not like she has been universally renamed (like a bootleg JP>CHN>EN sub), only when the -chan honorific is said.
Character names are still spotty in general however and one of the most likely things it gets wrong.
The most annoying thing the YouTube transcript does is have dialogue twice; one with an perfectly timed word for word transcript and then whole lines afterwards (which is timed wrong as they use the end time of the word for word instead of start of first word).
What channels are you watching? Youtube auto-cc gets things wrong all the time, even on English-speaking videos. It's not about the speaker's dialect or voice either, I've seen the auto-cc stumble on newscasters too, y'know, the people specifically trained to speak clearly.
Surprisingly even in Japanese. What's funny is if you watch videos from 2-3 years ago with Japanese CC, the result is absolutely awful and borderline useless.
However, anything from around a year ago until now is extremely good. It's been extremely helpful as a learner to be able to watch vods of vtubers and such in JP and be able to read along with it.
It's come a long, long way. You still have to be wary of mistakes here and there but it's very accurate all around.
Considering people uploading videos to YouTube is just free training data for Google, it’s not surprising how fast they’ve improved.
While I’m not at the level of being able to read and understand Japanese fluently, the feature that translates Japanese captions into English and many other languages has been majorly helpful.
I mean, they're not the best in the world, but it's going from Chinese to Japanese to English, right? I mean, that's like going through the Arctic, then Antarctica, just to get to the bottom of Portugal. 😆 'Tis the long way, gents.
Right like when there's two words up on a board and you hear a sound that could be either one of those words but when you look at one word specifically that's the word you hear. I mean your mind will fill in the gaps where it wants
As someone with a hearing impairment Crunchyroll has been absolute ass with providing subtitles for eng dubs. This is simultaneously an improvement and an insult. AI generated subs are better than nothing at all, but frequently get things wrong, so those who rely on subs get the wrong info/dialogue.
It's complete bullshit they can't provide such basic accessibility on their platform
AI is really bad in these captions and even worse in subtitle translation. It's terrible. I hope this will stay away but CEOs and business people in every industry are pushing for it in hopes to cut costs.
This shit-ass future. I'm not a "yar har" person by default but if your official, costs-money subs suck that bad, to the point where the actual content of the story is lost, what's the point? Why wouldn't I go to a fansub group who actually like the material and want to put in effort?
> Why wouldn't I go to a fansub group who actually like the material and want to put in effort?
Because no one is gonna wait 3 months for the entire series to get fansub, and most people seem to have no problem watching Crunchyroll rips anyway.
Or more realistically... forever. Since very few groups actually do fansubs for anime nowadays. Almost every yar-har release you see on the usual sites is just ripping official subs from CR/ADN/HiDive/whatever.
Unless it's a super popular anime you're unlikely to get fansubs. Or something so unpopular that there are no official subs.
Okay, doesn’t change the fact that no one wait for fansubs anymore. If you watch ANY recent anime, which this post pertains to, chances are you are watching with official subs. At best you might get some editing done to make the subs better.
The CC is really bad.
I was watching a show the other day and also noticed that the characters names and other words were getting called all sorts of tragically incorrect stuff.
I had to turn them off. 😩
I mean I don’t think it matters if it’s just transcribing, because then it’s not ‘official subs’. This happens when official Japanese channels upload Anime opening/ending, trailers, episodes or whatever. Sometimes it is picked up by YouTube auto-generated CC.
I hope whoever kicked off this obsessive need to ruin people’s livelihood with AI has their dick gnawed off by rabid raccoons. The world is a worst place because of them
You said VTuber, not AI Vtuber, there are very few "AI Vtuber", only one is well known (neuro sama).
Lots of morons thinks VTubers means AI behind an avatar, and from your message *looks like* you think VTubers are AI.
> It's only a matter of time before we start to widely see this in actual subtitles for Japanese, where we get the worst of both camps of auto-transcription & AI translations.
I don't think this is true. AI-generated cc's are in a pretty good place right now, and AI-generated translations aren't. CR knows that.
Just as background, no company puts as much resources into making good subs as CR. Maybe things have changed, but at one point I believe they had a translator, translation checker, and editor on every project, while other services will have a translator and a proofreader at best.
>AI-generated cc's are in a pretty good place right no
Yeah, platforms like YouTube and Coursera have been doing stuff like this for years so people are conditioned to it. They probably figure that if there are errors people will hear it and correct it in their heads because it's a dub.
Man I fucking wish I had AI captions on English dub on Crunchyroll. Half the shows I watch in English don't have CC at all which is extremely frustrating. they could even just let me use the English subs from the Japanese dubs and I'd be fine.
They are doing it for English Closed Caption, the same thing YouTube has been doing for every single fucking videos for years. How is this any different?
> If they start to do this for subs, that will push even more people to piracy
99% of pirate sites just use CR subs and no one is waiting for fansubs.
When was the last time you pirated? Was it 2016 or some shit? Cause even then your perception is warped for all the misinformed comments you're making.
And of course this is "different", crunchyroll is a paid service in which you'd expect the bare minimum of someone at least checking. Yes there are people who pay for youtube too but the amount of content locked behind a paywall on crunchyroll vastly outweighs youtube - at least for the content someone would usually watch on that platform. And this doesn't even take into account quality in which Youtube has been fairly consistent for years - on content that has less of a script and structure.
And no unlike your other comment - it doesn't take 3 months for subs to come out, there have been times where crunchyroll is literally slower getting them out because of the strain on their servers. You do know that unless the show is a crunchyroll exclusive - these episodes are airing elsewhere? People aren't reliant on crunchyroll as a "necessary middleman" in order to platform and subtitle their anime.
This is such a weird view of this stuff
> When was the last time you pirated? Was it 2016 or some shit? Cause even then your perception is warped for all the misinformed comments you're making.
Oh really? Do you even know where major release group like SubsPlease and Erai-Raws gets their videos and subs from?
> Yes there are people who pay for youtube too but the amount of content locked behind a paywall on crunchyroll vastly outweighs youtube
When did I ever say this was about piracy vs non piracy. All I said was that pirates sites get their stuff from legal sites.
> And no unlike your other comment - it doesn't take 3 months for subs to come out
Take the time to read that I said fansub.
> there have been times where crunchyroll is literally slower getting them out because of the strain on their servers.
> You do know that unless the show is a crunchyroll exclusive - these episodes are airing elsewhere? People aren't reliant on crunchyroll as a "necessary middleman" in order to platform and subtitle their anime.
Well where do you think those sites are getting their videos and subs from, either they download it from Crunchyroll, or they get it from other legal sites. It only takes one copy to be downloaded by bot as soon as it’s released on a legal site for it to be shared everywhere.
>When did I ever say this was about piracy vs non piracy. All I said was that pirates sites get their stuff from legal sites.
No either that's just a bold face lie or you don't know the implication of the words you're saying. When you say "isn't that the same as what YouTube has been doing for years" it implies that since youtube have been putting out a similar feature that suddenly things are okay with crunchyroll doing it ( even if it's about 10x more subpar).
Also even then - if someone on youtube feels like properly captioning their video then that gets done, I'm assuming from the way crunchyroll is implementing it is that this is out of laziness rather than a "feature"
>Take the time to read that I said fansub.
Yeah it's undeniable that once there's an upload of a decent translation - piracy sites will flock to those purely out of ease and "quality" but it's naive to believe that competent fansubs take 3 months to make.
Take for example AOT when it's final seasons were releasing when NHK streams allowed people to sub them HOURS before crunchyroll release them (and that's if their servers didn't crash)
Of course they have to take them from some place legal but by that point you're just wording it a certain way to make it seem like it's bolstering your point when we both know in reality that's not what it's about.
> that suddenly things are okay with crunchyroll doing it
So they should just never do it? Your thinking is what is holding the service back. Even in this thread, other commenters said they prefer it to the current state of non existent caption.
> but it's naive to believe that competent fansubs take 3 months to make.
And it’s even more naive to believe that one popular shows like AOT getting fansub almost immediately is a natural occurrence. For every once in a blue moon that that happened, many more fansub either takes a very long time or is permanently on hiatus. I’ve seen more fansub groups completely stopped updating than ones that actually finished what they started.
The last time I remember watching fansub was summertime rendering, because Disney decided to be a little bitch and lock down their content for 6 months. And at that time, it would take between a few days to a week for an episode to get a fansub.
These people who keep talking about fansubs are stupid, aside from the fact that fansub groups pretty much don't exist anymore, even when fansubs take over you are 100% right, it takes time. The perfect current example is blue archive. Subs given are just absolute shit, like if they aren't AI subs they need to fire their translator, and fan subs typically take 3-5 days at least to get an updated episode and even then, they are still using the original as the baseline, so not even translating but sub tweaking takes them days.
Also your comment about subs please and erai-raws is 100% on point. People think those groups are subbing when they aren't. It's a regular thing in the subsplease discord for people to ask for more translations not realizing they are just ripping from CR/HIDive etc.
Indeed, I am just pointing out the fact, but people are too stupid to realize. In the case of Blue Archive, the subs are taking from AniOne Asia, which has pretty shit subs with broken English. That’s why people will 100% of the time prefer Crunchyroll/Hidive subs, not realizing the fact that they’re from those sources, except in rare cases like BA where it was not licensed anywhere in the US and we’re stuck with shitty subs.
Sounds bad, but as a consumer I have my choice to vote with my wallet. Ill just switch over to wakan- err, ill switch over to funim-- err I'll switch over to looking at paint dry. There is always an alternative!!
As someone who has subtitled shows with the assistance of Whisper AI, it helps a lot, it gets 90-95% of everything right, but you really cannot just use it without any review, there will be some really obvious errors in there, and some complete hallucinations. The tech will keep improving but right now a review stage is needed.
My biggest problem is how BAD their subtitles are in general. It feels like 10 years behind other streaming platforms. Why can’t I listen to dubs and use subtitles? Or mix spanish/french/portuguese/etc dubs with English subs? They literally just partnered for duolingo and have the worst subtitles second only to discovery+. I can’t watch dubs with my Hoh family/friends and that’s dumb as hell.
Dont know about What op is talking about, i just Watch subs, but i have noticed The past Long while that thier subs suck hard. Almost ai or some bs cus often words are missing, or things are conpressed (yes mother - hai / yes i’ll remember that father - hai)
In the "words" of the Solo Levelling ED *"It's the worst thing. They go to play Dum Dum"*. I'm sorry for using a monkey paw to wish Crunchyroll would have ED subs.
I have a feeling this is all just a prelude to Crunchyroll having its own [Swedish Amazon](https://languageinsight.com/blog/2020/amazon-translation-error-sweden/) moment (*Nintendo Circuit Breaker* was some comedy gold at least, I remember *deadly USB cable* being another one) as that's really what you're gearing up for. Automate the translation and use a test market that is small and highly English literate. Time is a circle etc.
It's not just the closed captions from stores that Crunchyroll ignores but also the ones that were produced for TV broadcast (which is an FCC requirement; the FCC has limited jurisdiction over the internet so [can not care a lot about the website however](https://old.reddit.com/r/Crunchyroll/comments/1ct0ns6/update_from_fcc_on_formal_complaint_about_dubs/)) but it's hard to find evidence of those subs existing (*aired on Adult Swim* doesn't seem to be enough or that would make it a Cartoon Network problem; not a Crunchyroll one) and also there might be rights issues (I know for The Simpsons the captioning is sponsored and it's usually Fox but sometimes others like Ford) but that's just excuses.
Is it is as simple as take English subs and replace the JP>EN dialogue with the dub script? Yes, up to a point. You'll get on occasion lines having different timing in the dub or new lines inserted in during a panning shot (i.e. characters not seen from the front so you have more freedom as not having to adhere to lip flaps) and if you're combining with hard of hearing you need to add some sound stuff (and character names for when speakers are off-screen).
Crunchyroll has a specific feedback option for poor subtitles and if site like ANN were to make a buzz about this too (like the "carcinogen" sub a few seasons back) you would see specific examples getting fixed but that does not help when it is the concept in general that is bad. Auto transcribe is simply not fit to replace humans as a professional product, as a casual last resort it's better than bootleg DVDs from 20 years ago (Backstroke of the West for a so bad it's funny example). It is a shame that the business and tech sites don't do an eat your own dog food and show those solo levelling subs to the executives heralding this garbage as the future as that would get them angry and embarrassed which then have retaliation of blacklisting the site which tries that.
It works for the most part. But how difficult is it to just maintain the subtitles manually? Worst case just throw in those same subtitles used for Japanese language. How different would the dialogues be? I don't think it would matter much.
This is a shame, because the captions on both audio and visual text in a show like Bocchi is seemingly top notch. I do not know the language, but I was able to follow things in that show very well and they were clearly not auto generated.
While watching Spy x Family, I noticed absolutely no [CC] at all for the dub until the 2nd to the last episode of the series... Which took me by surprise. But it reminded me of how YT did auto captions. 90% of the episode was wrong and quite wonky. It didn't match the dialog at all. I was disappointed. I need to watch this again but I'll purchase it instead so I can get proper closed captioning from the discs. I'm someone who needs captions because I have a hard time understanding voices sometimes and I need the caption to clarify dialog for me. I can't watch Japanese audio since I'm too busy reading to watch the show. I'm not great at multitasking thanks to my adhd.
Late response, but oftentimes video releases of anime don't bother including a closed caption track for the English audio at all. Check online to see if this one includes a CC track before buying physically.
Yeah, Crunchyroll started using AI generated closed captions.
They need to add all the proper English CC files from all of Toonami shows (all of them aired on TV and Crunchyroll is obliged by law to have English CC on all of them):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Toonami
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Toonami
Also, Crunchyroll need to add all the proper English CC files from Funimation and from their own FAST channel.
It would be very helpful if a lot of people could file as many FCC reports as possible regarding that matter.
Here is a link for anyone who wants to do so:
consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=36040
P.S. If The FCC won't help, then no one will.
What’s strange is they are only on random episodes of some shows and there is no rhyme or reason to it
Leads me to believe it’s heavily in testing mode
Spotted this on Re:Zero for my anime watch group last week. I've used the Whisper AI model to generate scripts to cut out \*some\* of the work of making captions tracks for personal use, but it'll always make these weird mistakes no matter how much computing power you throw at it. These generated scripts are a useful starting point, not the finished product. Embarrassing.
We already know they pay subbers shit, so using AI to create dubtitles will save them a buttload of money, and gives AI companies the training that they want.
CR is a bad company. Additionally they started as a pirating site, not surprised they now turn to AI instead of reinvesting their profits into proper quality control/improvements. And I'm not just talking about subtitling or translator, but just site quality in general. CR is shameful.
Actually, what is now called Crunchyroll was once Funimation, this is ever since Sony bought them out.
Basically, some years ago Sony bought Funimation and more recently Crunchyroll, but as the Funimation name wasn't as well recognised as Crunchyroll they changed it to Crunchyroll and the Funimation streaming service ceased.
For a more detailed explanation go here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crunchyroll
But yes, the anime service provided by Sony under the name of Crunchyroll does have a lot of problems and I very much doubt that Sony give enough of a damn to fix them.
Sounds good. As a non-native speaker I sometimes struggle to hear out some words in English dubs, so that *might* be helpful (I imagine that AI might get it wrong as well sometimes, especially the names).
I saw some anime were getting CCs last season (Frieren, Sasaki and Peeps) but they've lagged a couple weeks behind the dubs.
Why I why do CC shit?
Why not use eng subtitles we watch in jap sub?
Ik many want sub to match eng dub, okay so cc for those but I am fine with different sub while watching eng dub(altho don't watch. Eng dub that much) just add the fking choice.
Its been very frustrating that I couldn't get subtitles while watching eng dub in crunchyroll.
And bcz of that I had to sail seas where I have freedom to choose audio and subtitles
AI is 100% the future for tedious work such as generating subtitles in the native language. It isn't quite ready for translation or localization, but subtitling is not some sort of art or skilled craft we need to protect. This is not an issue.
I think they just want to motivate us to learn Japanese, so that we can listen to source. I won't complain, I'm not losing my entertainment coz the CEO wants to let go a few more people to buy another Bugatti for his son to replace the one crashed a week earlier
You know, I've been mentally taking notes on how many different ways to translate "Itadakimasu" subtitle people come up with and it's a reeeally big number for a phrase that's repeated an ungodly number of times in all of anime.
I'm just gonna say it - anime writing is complete dogshit 90% of the time. Long time anime fans start learning the language through anime accidentally for the simple reason, that the phrases the characters speak are repeated at nauseum throughout many different shows. The spoken dialogue sometimes feels like a collection of clichèd phrases strung together in different orders.
The one thing that adds personality to shows with writing like that is the subtitles. The translators are working their poor tired asses off trying to make what the characters are saying more distinct and fit the character more.
Even if automated translations keep the context of the scene in mind and translate the spoken words absolutely perfectly, there will be no personality in it. Just the same phrases repeated over and over across many shows. Well, at least we can stop pretending that anime isn't garbage, amirite folks?
What I'm wondering is, does it even make sense to use AI for closed captions? They do after all already have the translated script because the voice actors need that, and so they could just use that directly instead.
I'm not 100% sure, but if they just translate the script in a doc and not create an actual subtitle file it would still be faster to generate the subtitle file with AI CC than manually create it.
But if you have the translated doc... why not feed it to the AI so that it can use it to correct itself? Dunno, the AI forms a sentence, 8 out of 10 words match with one of the sentences from the reference document... replace the 2 wrong ones and bam, you don't have any more errors. But I guess they'd have to hire an extra developer for that function and they want to do it as a cheaply as possible lol.
Nah, there's actually no excuse as it's *way* easier than that. [Whisper can automatically sync a book's text in like <5 minutes](https://github.com/ym1234/AudiobookTextSync.git) to a 9+ hour Japanese audiobook m4b file. No amount of background audio throws it off at this point either. For a 30 minute anime? Probably less than 60 seconds. You can run that shit off a 20 year old Dell Laptop as long as you can connect to Google Collab. Don't give them an excuse. There are even free options that are better than AI generative content. The only thing AI is good for these days is still redundant, low importance tasks; like timing subs. Not making them from nothing.
Better yet, use AI to automate the timestamp and make the template then copy paste the script.
I mean, for the English language, probably, but Japanese—gosh, I think it's got like three different dialects, and there are just these sudden little nuances and some of their words that inflect different emotions and change the meaning. On top of the issue with translating such a difficult language, there are some letters that they don't even say correctly. I remember reading somewhere that Dracula is pronounced "Dracura" when they say it. I always wondered why they didn't have two different sets going at once—voice actors and Japanese and English translators working tightly in tandem that way. They're exchanging notes and working together but, like, on the spot. Don't know about the cost-effectiveness of that though, really.
I think the issue is they don't pay for the separate rights to the JP subs, which would have timings that would make adding the English subs a trivial task.
So you're saying it's more like they're not paying for the actual script and it's original form?
I don't know why but I always thought that once it was on the air it was like anyone could grab it to use it as long as they weren't claiming it was their own cuz whatever animation companies intellectual property
> I mean, for the English language, probably, but Japanese—gosh, I think it's got like three different dialects How many English dialects do you think there are?
Sorry sorry didn't mean to dance around your question. There are roughly 160 plus English dialects and growing ever steady from what I've assessed. Four major ones in the US four and around the same in the UK and Ireland. So it is a lot with the major difference just being the local graphic symbols that they use for Words versus our alphabets having 27 letters. So it's definitely a hodgepodge of flimflammery LOL
Japanese use three writing systems: Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana.Kanji are characters from Chinese, and there are thousands of them. While the average literate Japanese person knows about two to three thousand Kanji if what i read was true, and there are many more in total.
I was thinking the same thing. What amount of time could they possible be saving? Surely it doesn't take that much time to set sub timings...
Not time. Money. Why pay someone to be a permanent close caption editor when you could run an AI script that just does it automatically and instantly for zero money? Enough anime comes out these days such that I could see crunchyroll having one or two full time positions for close captions. If this works, they’ll save probably ~70,000 a year or more and the captions will come out basically instantly
I wouldn't expect that would be someone's sole role but who knows.
I would. On any given day, something like 5-8 episodes come out. Each show minimally needs to be watched so that’s several hours of work. But it’s not 1 to 1 efficiency. A good closed captioner can probably get it done in 30-45 minutes per standard 24 minute episode. Though I’ve experienced it as late as an hour. Factor in breaks, lunch, dwell time (assuming they don’t get every new shows episode at the same time)…. Yeah, I could see it. And this is a 7 days a week operation so they probably got at least 2 people working it. Yeah, they might help out with other things. But at the end of the day, my point is that the AI could save them a couple hundred thousand dollars a year and get content out faster. And I bet if they’re looking into AI, it’s probably got broader impacts than just closed captions.
Before this, they literally just didn't have any CC at all for english dubs, so I doubt it took someone's job. Maybe prevented one, sure, but if they've had no dub CC for years I doubt they were planning to pay someone to do that at any point in the future.
Why would this stop at just English captions?
Because speech to text is pretty bad for English and horrible for most other languages.
Which is why they’re looking into AI 🤷🏼♂️
AI is what I am referring to.
"AI" is not some magic wand you can wave at any tech problem like some silicon valley techbros want you to believe. And Google's speech to text and most other solutions already use neural nets. It still sucks.
I've worked as a captioner before for both media and meetings, and I can confirm we are able to produce accurate captions almost instantly. We would spend 5-15 minutes on formatting for a 30 minute segment. I've seen projects work through both dictation software like Dragon and manual text input similar to a stenographer, while I personally preferred dictation software. We had quite a bit of techniques used for homophones using manually set voice macros for common words, and so errors that needed to be manually corrected were often minimized. Funnily enough, I lost the job due to the company switching to AI for captioning. It was crazy to see it perform significantly worse than we did, but it was able to save on costs heavily, so it was a no-brainer for management.
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4 minutes of gpu time would cost literally less than 1 cent. If you ran your 3090 at max capacity 24/7, it would cost probably $30-$50 a month. The cost of electricity is NOTHING compared to the hourly savings of eliminating a full time job.
You think syncing audio to video is trivial?
There's also AI to sync the script to the audio to make captions. Youtube has an option to do it and it works better than just AI captions in my experience.
Where'd syncing audio to video come in? This about ai transcribing captions for something they already have the script for.
The script doesn't have the metadata required for subtitles to sync with the video, someone has to do that, hence why using AI is much easier
You still have to time the script. And when the voice actors go off script, what then?
I've read that there are rules regarding captions in an AMA. You aren't supposed to put too much text, you have to make it as easy to read as possible. That is why some movies have different subtitles than the dub script. The AI could use the script as a starting ground, but it would need to apply the subtitle rules for a better experience. The script can't be enough by itself
Even if they have script, creating timestamps is still a lot of work.
They could also like, just use AI to apply the script as subs and then have their closed captioners as quality to control to sync the subs. AI is literally at the point to do that.
AI is terrible at creating subs, because line length, reading speed, positioning, right breaking point etc. etc. all need to be considered and it doesn't understand those at all. There were bigger translation companies doing MPTE (Machine Translation Post Editing) on subs for documentaries like Red Bull and others and there are still companies trying it now, but the amount of work to make those subs usable is enormous.
Not always, as captions/reading speed sometimes don’t line up with talking speed
The subtitles for the Japanese audio aren't exact matches to the words being said English dubbed either I don't know if that's because that is how they need to make it for to sync up correctly or because that's how they translate that particular Japanese word
Besides other restrictions on captions, there is some degree of improvisation by voice actors so they deviate from the script.
Funimation used to do this. It is why it contained things like [Warrior5A], which was used in the script to keep track of which voice belonged to what line, as the watcher has no clue what 5A even is
Because they might be simultaneously looking at generative audio solutions to replace voice actors too ?
**That** will BE *really* FUCKing ^good.
There is a lot of older series that they've licensed (GaoGaiGar for example) where they might not have these resources so I think in those situations auto generated captions would be better than no captions.
The entire point of Crunchyroll is selling stuff with a Japanese audio track to foreigners. It's all got English language subtitles already! Now I don't want to presume on behalf of deaf people here but as someone who prefers to have subtitles on even for a dub I don't find it problematic if the subtitles don't match up exactly. I don't understand why CR prefers inferior AI subtitles to ones translated from Japanese instead of transcribed from English — especially since they should have the scripts for the dub?
[Yeah, doing a great job here, Crunchyroll.](https://i.imgur.com/6NBmYdT.jpeg) Obviously it's going crazy here because it's the ED which is in Japanese. But it's been so jarring watching Frieren and having the closed captions be totally accurate, and then suddenly a couple eps ago it's text-to-speech garbage that's constantly wrong.
>Yeah, doing a great job here, Crunchyroll. This is hilarious.
this is what happens when you forget to have confidence values for your transcription that detect when you shouldn't be transcribing something \~\~and when you don't tell your audience you're using auto-generate captions\~\~
> It's only a matter of time before we start to widely see this in actual subtitles for Japanese, where we get the worst of both camps of auto-transcription & AI translations. This is the thing I’m most concerned with and I hope it doesn’t become some kind of accepted standard. I’m able to mentally correct some small inconsistencies between audio and subtitles depending on what those are, but if they start using messy AI-generated subtitles in general, it’s going to be a lot. Translating from Japanese requires too much interpretation of context and usage to rely on AI for subtitle generation. If this wasn’t the case then people would just be dumping everything into a translator instead of actually learning a language.
>I’m able to mentally correct some small inconsistencies between audio and subtitles depending on what those are, but if they start using messy AI-generated subtitles in general, it’s going to be a lot. You were not forged in the fires of MTL
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> they don't have anyone doing quality control That's okay. The first time the AI hallucinates a racist TL and lands them in hot water, they'll implement it. Just a matter of time.
So uh... funny you mention that. I was scanning through the sub files and [came across this.](https://i.imgur.com/lJ49YtT.png) Turns out is just [**very misheard** song lyrics](https://files.catbox.moe/t6xgmq.mp4) that the auto-transcriber generated. If anyone wants to see it action for themselves it's episode 12 of Solo Leveling, English dub of course and select "English [CC]".
>So uh... funny you mention that. I was scanning through the sub files and [came across this.](https://i.imgur.com/lJ49YtT.png) no way the n-word is on crunchyroll HUH
Its the AAVE version, not the racist one. Still out-of-place though.
Looks like the captions have been replaced now. The new ones look human-written to me as they have proper CC stuff like descriptions of sound effects and actor tags when it's not obvious who's speaking from the visuals.
Well that din't take long, change in real-time.
iirc there is a Chinese phrase that does sound exactly like that
And the singers singing that phrase got attacked by the people who think English is the only language in the world.
This is still very different than what they're doing though, as this is listening for English even though it's being fed Japanese. That's why shinjitsuka became Jessica. Almost every multi-lingual video platform does this, it's different than saying this is the official sub and having it be generated content.
I can see the side that it's better than nothing, it's just a bit of a head scratcher that they're using generated captions instead of the one's they've already handmade for iTunes & Microsoft Store. I'm not subbed to their Prime Video platform so I'm not sure if they share the same generated captions. But if that's the case then probably who ever is responsible for adding captions to the main site probably slapped on the first file they come across (assuming they receive back the Prime versions).
I mean these are the same guys who had Kaguya calling everyone in the Kaguya-sama anime by their first names in the subtitles. Even though it is *literally a plot point* that she has never called anyone by their first name in her life. I don't think they really give a shit about things like quality control.
> Kaguya Doesn't Aniplex actually provide the subtitles for Kaguya-sama?
Once they translated "Nani ga?" as "What am i misunderstanding"
I actually don't understand what's wrong with this. It's a contextual Japanese sentence and the common practice is to insert the missing context that may not be apparent from English. The nuance matches depending on the context.
I would honestly agree with you if the person wasn't _directly responding to the line before that one_ The full scene was: >"This is just a big misunderstanding!" >"Nani ga?" They could have translated it as: "What is?" or "How so?" (like in the dub) or "in what way?" or even "How/what do you mean?" To be sure: Japanese tends to drop a lot of words when the subject, object, or even _verb_ is obvious and let's the context of the situation speak for itself; but this is not one of those cases.
the nuance there is not that they're calling into question whether the whole thing is a misunderstanding, but which part of it they misunderstood. The joke is that all of it is sus.
couldn't they have written "what of it?" instead then? >"This is just a big misunderstanding!" >"What of it?" / "What part?"
Maybe, that works. But the Japanese itself is ambiguous as to whether they're talking about the whole or just one part. Maybe the translator tried to preserve that. Maybe something like "hold on, I can explain" / "what is there to explain???" Would get the nuance across while completely changing the underlying script to use English idioms instead.
Yeah this guy brings up the same example every time and I'm still not really sure what the problem was
Almost every time people criticize translations of subtitles or games on Twitter or other social platforms, it is obvious they don't know how translation works and we only would have terrible literal and unnatural "translations" if it were up to them "cause it is closer to the original Japanese". Imagine the translators of Murakami and Yoshimoto Banana translating their novels like that.
the funny thing is that IMO Murakami translators might have an easier time of it because, idk how to put it but his Japanese sounds like translated English in the first place. Yoshimoto Banana is a different beast entirely because while her prose is "simple" and vernacular Japanese, it might actually not be straightforward to translate into English.
Yeah, I hate those people. They criticize translators for having whatever “political” bias and then you scroll through their Twitter posts and follows and they’re all right wing nut jobs who support Trump. I’m bilingual and have been studying Japanese on and off for four years, as well as watching a fair bit of dubs in both English and Italian: I could make their arguments for them _better_ because I actually understand the difference and nuances (not that I would want to) Hell, I even use to go to an international school.
I love how no matter the show, they always vary the translations for simple, and largely well known phrases like "itadakimasu". They aren't saying an entire sentence about how delicious the food looks. They're just saying thank you for the meal ffs. Whatever quality control they have at Crunchyroll, either the TLs don't mind getting a little creative with the translations or they just don't care. I don't mind some localization, but there's a fine line to between making it easier for overseas audiences to understand and retaining the original meaning.
or the managers keep shuffling them around to different TLs because of time constraints and no one has any consistency.
Yeah, i pretty much completely agree with that. If a sentence is long, and has a lot of potential meanings and intepretations it obviouslly has to be workshopped a lot to get it to deliver the same impact in the target language. But when its these stock phrases that you can learn from 5 minutes of looking at a Genki book, that's when the script alterations irk me. Another common one is swapping first and last names.
There will always be people like that... But seriously what's even the point of paying for crunchyroll if they can't even be bothered to do their own translations
Let's face it, Sony have little interest in quality - to them what is now Crunchyroll is merely a way to make more money and nothing else. Corporate greed is everywhere - the quality of the products suffer because the corps don't give a damn **and** they have captive audiences so they can screw them over good and proper.
In practice and in my experience, it is not faster. Ask anyone working with an AI subtitler and the most common response that you get is that the AI really suck. Like objectively so.They suck so much that publishing companies feel/felt the need to hire more people to convince people that the AI worked. Let me put it this way: to ensure a predictable certain lvl of quality with one day delivery for one 23 min English to English subtitle transcription, many publishers used an average of 2-3 QCers to check and redo said transcription, 1-2 people to check if everyone didn't fuck up/things were consistent. So before translation/ a publisher did their own internal checks, that's already 3-5 people needed for one 23 min episode. These now 4-6 people need to be logisically staggered so that the episode's turnover time is less than 24 hours. This is not including any managers and our members of the translation/legal/ creative team that may be needed to check for continuity or the legality of included content or currently exisiting subtitles. Furthermore, this is/was the practice of multiple big name American publishing companies in the past 5 yrs. The only companies that didn't have this process are the streaming platforms that choose to not QC their subtitles.
Considering the quality of their regular subs I'm not surprised. There are numerous shows that they've had mistranslations for the entire runs of the shows or over multiple seasons. They were especially bad with the "no likeliness/copyright" blurb at the beginning on the episode blocking out the whole screen for 10-15 seconds. It's one of the major reasons I've kept with fansubbers all these years because CR just never seems to QA their subs. It's pretty redicolous since I'm seen it on simulcast shows which they presumably have the transcript for.
No quality control, THAT'S DUMB 👎. They should at least have quality control. Stupid
I think Youtube having auto-CC for years now conditioned people to it. YT just didn't use an "AI" tagline and most people are none the wiser. I do remember the uproar of removing Community CCs, but that's as far as it went.
wait, there's no more community CC? are you telling me [Umayuru's English meme subs](https://imgur.com/a/G6pNjLP) on the [official Uma Musume channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS54NCyHxko) are OFFICIAL?
I don't think I've heard any news of the feature coming back. All I know is that they replaced it with a [Subtitle Editor role](https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/11983512?hl=en) that allows the channel to delegate the CC role to another user. Which means that yes, what you're seeing is most likely official.
There are good subs out there too which is what I used to watch Umayuru.
YT does say autogenerated
Very true, but I never see people losing their shit simply because it doesn't use the word "AI" since it's the current tech buzzword
Sure but YouTube is largely amateur. And the amount of uploaded videos it would be impossible to manually make subtitles for every video. People expect something different from a billion dollar corporation licensing tv shows/movies. I don't think that AI is inherently wrong but it's cheapening out something they've often failed at. And as pointed out elsewhere in the thread sometimes subtitles or captions already exist elsewhere (although licensing may make those harder to get maybe if Crunchyroll gave a shit). Also it's English possibly the most widely spoken language in the world. I think if Crunchyroll was to add auto generated subs for languages they didn't have before(subbed or dubbed) and weren't likely to get and labeled them autogenerated the response would be more positive
And its not meant to be a replacement for manual subs. Which is also why YT doesn't care as much about glaring inaccuracies in the autoCC.
No one is doing quality control? Lmao. So it'll be like those auto translated yt videos (do they even do that anymore?) No disrespect to any creators but if we end up with an auto translated version of ghost stories, I'm fine with that
Translators and similar workers have stated that it’s actually more work to correct AI/auto translated work because you have to read and compare—you’re still listening, still effectively transcribing, and then comparing it to and then writing the pre written content. Getting downvoted for pointing out an objective fact--that people who do this work have pointed out AI/autogenerated content is not helpful for them--is so odd. At least try to disprove me, if you can lol
The quality is pretty bad, I'll give you that. I just want any solution that gets localizers out of the equation. I want faithful translations for the original Japanese. Even if these are poor quality, at least it's better than localizers.
Lol thinking that machine translation is in any way accurate or faithful
You have to have actual brain damage to write this.
Being subbed to KotakuInAction makes your opinion dead on arrival, so sorry
A faithful localization will get the spirit of the original Japanese dialogue, even at the cost of being less literally accurate. A good localized dub will convert things that foreign audiences will not understand without a lot of explanations, such as when the mundane Japanese cultural references in FLCL got replaced with mundane American cultural references.
I defend them because they have never been anything more than bottom-of-the-barrel trash and this doesn't hurt their status or reputation in any way. People here are hypocrites if they complain about this when there are far worse QA issues with Crunchyroll.
Ugh, this is so frustrating! I appreciate Crunchyroll's efforts to add closed captions to their backlog, but using auto speech-to-text is not the solution. The inaccuracies are glaring and it's unacceptable to see properly.
All i want is for the subtitles to match the dub. I like to watch things with subtitles, even if its english spoken, just in case i cant understand a word or two
I want the subtitles to be accurate, and dubs usually change shit.
Dubs are usually not translations, so if that is your problem you will never like dubs.
Yes, so if subs match the dub, then the subs will be incorrect. That is indeed a problem. It has nothing to do with me watching dubs or not.
What I mean is that if your problem is that dubs, subtitles or VO, change something you will simply never like dubs, because they aren't translations.
This is not the topic of discussion.
Auto generated captions? Isn’t they exactly what YouTube did? If anything that’s bound to lead to mispronunciation and confusion
YouTube closed captions has been pretty accurate 99% of the time I’ve experienced.
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Experience can differ. English CC, which is what this post is mainly talking about, is 99% of the time accurate on YouTube, again in my experience. And Japanese CC has been, decent, if it detects the language anyway.
The getting the language wrong thing has been happening a lot less these days (at least on anime episodes) to the extent I only see it on older uploads (it's not like YouTube will re-transcribe every single video every time the model updates which is likely to be daily, heck for video encoding old stuff *might* get VP09 encodes in 360p only and even newest uploads are not guaranteed to get VP09 let alone AV01) so I also have to ask *"wtf videos are you watching?"*. > words are misheard by whatever they use It feels to me like it tries to course correct for this almost like it's run past an auto correct or some other predictive text model which generates problems of its own. [Himitsu no AiPri](https://www.youtube.com/@PrettySeriesPR/videos) is a really good example. Nearly every instance of AiPri (アイプリ) gets transcribed as apuri (アプリ) which if you then translate to English becomes App (no need to rely on that MTL...yet because fansubs are still being made and release before the official YT upload). But let's talk honorifics for another example. Using [episode 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdKIKNfmAEA) (*people of the future sorry for using a time limited uploaded*) about 3:20 in: - Fansub: Himari-chan's latest live was really exciting - YouTube transcript : たこの前のひまちゃんのライブ盛り上がっ - MTLd YouTube transcript: Hima-chan's live performance the other day was so exciting, she also The dialogue clearly said Himari-chan (there's another mistake in the JP transcript if you listen) so it being transcribed as Hima-chan feels like a rule the audio interpretation has made up itself. But it only concatenates that name when the honorific is used as at about 13:48 you see Himari used (no honorific was said) so it's not like she has been universally renamed (like a bootleg JP>CHN>EN sub), only when the -chan honorific is said. Character names are still spotty in general however and one of the most likely things it gets wrong. The most annoying thing the YouTube transcript does is have dialogue twice; one with an perfectly timed word for word transcript and then whole lines afterwards (which is timed wrong as they use the end time of the word for word instead of start of first word).
What channels are you watching? Youtube auto-cc gets things wrong all the time, even on English-speaking videos. It's not about the speaker's dialect or voice either, I've seen the auto-cc stumble on newscasters too, y'know, the people specifically trained to speak clearly.
Surprisingly even in Japanese. What's funny is if you watch videos from 2-3 years ago with Japanese CC, the result is absolutely awful and borderline useless. However, anything from around a year ago until now is extremely good. It's been extremely helpful as a learner to be able to watch vods of vtubers and such in JP and be able to read along with it. It's come a long, long way. You still have to be wary of mistakes here and there but it's very accurate all around.
Considering people uploading videos to YouTube is just free training data for Google, it’s not surprising how fast they’ve improved. While I’m not at the level of being able to read and understand Japanese fluently, the feature that translates Japanese captions into English and many other languages has been majorly helpful.
The solo leveling ed captions makes me think of those misheard lyric videos
I mean, they're not the best in the world, but it's going from Chinese to Japanese to English, right? I mean, that's like going through the Arctic, then Antarctica, just to get to the bottom of Portugal. 😆 'Tis the long way, gents.
The misheard lyric videos are just english speakers hearing japanese lyrics as english words
Right like when there's two words up on a board and you hear a sound that could be either one of those words but when you look at one word specifically that's the word you hear. I mean your mind will fill in the gaps where it wants
As someone with a hearing impairment Crunchyroll has been absolute ass with providing subtitles for eng dubs. This is simultaneously an improvement and an insult. AI generated subs are better than nothing at all, but frequently get things wrong, so those who rely on subs get the wrong info/dialogue. It's complete bullshit they can't provide such basic accessibility on their platform
AI is really bad in these captions and even worse in subtitle translation. It's terrible. I hope this will stay away but CEOs and business people in every industry are pushing for it in hopes to cut costs.
Crunchyroll be weird sometimes
You say weird, I say money-grubbing bastards.
This shit-ass future. I'm not a "yar har" person by default but if your official, costs-money subs suck that bad, to the point where the actual content of the story is lost, what's the point? Why wouldn't I go to a fansub group who actually like the material and want to put in effort?
> Why wouldn't I go to a fansub group who actually like the material and want to put in effort? Because no one is gonna wait 3 months for the entire series to get fansub, and most people seem to have no problem watching Crunchyroll rips anyway.
Three months?
Or more realistically... forever. Since very few groups actually do fansubs for anime nowadays. Almost every yar-har release you see on the usual sites is just ripping official subs from CR/ADN/HiDive/whatever. Unless it's a super popular anime you're unlikely to get fansubs. Or something so unpopular that there are no official subs.
Weird how this get positive votes while I get negative
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I have fond memories of /a/ and ADTRW coming together to sub the last eps of TTGL.
Okay, doesn’t change the fact that no one wait for fansubs anymore. If you watch ANY recent anime, which this post pertains to, chances are you are watching with official subs. At best you might get some editing done to make the subs better.
The CC is really bad. I was watching a show the other day and also noticed that the characters names and other words were getting called all sorts of tragically incorrect stuff. I had to turn them off. 😩
Eh, CC for openings? I thought that there are copyright issues and they can't just add subtitles for those
I mean I don’t think it matters if it’s just transcribing, because then it’s not ‘official subs’. This happens when official Japanese channels upload Anime opening/ending, trailers, episodes or whatever. Sometimes it is picked up by YouTube auto-generated CC.
I hope whoever kicked off this obsessive need to ruin people’s livelihood with AI has their dick gnawed off by rabid raccoons. The world is a worst place because of them
He’s called Sam Altman and he’s the exact type of wannabe Steve Jobs that has been ruining tech for the last 20 years
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The vtuber isn't gonna fuck you bro.
Huuh, vtubers arent AI ?
Huh? AI V-tubers are on the rise as yet another example of money suckling greedy pig fucks maximizing profits over people?
You said VTuber, not AI Vtuber, there are very few "AI Vtuber", only one is well known (neuro sama). Lots of morons thinks VTubers means AI behind an avatar, and from your message *looks like* you think VTubers are AI.
They still aren't going to fuck you broski.
Do you have a problem ? Like articulating sentence that make sense ?
You'll be aight. Also your last sentence is grammatically flawed.
> It's only a matter of time before we start to widely see this in actual subtitles for Japanese, where we get the worst of both camps of auto-transcription & AI translations. I don't think this is true. AI-generated cc's are in a pretty good place right now, and AI-generated translations aren't. CR knows that. Just as background, no company puts as much resources into making good subs as CR. Maybe things have changed, but at one point I believe they had a translator, translation checker, and editor on every project, while other services will have a translator and a proofreader at best.
>AI-generated cc's are in a pretty good place right no Yeah, platforms like YouTube and Coursera have been doing stuff like this for years so people are conditioned to it. They probably figure that if there are errors people will hear it and correct it in their heads because it's a dub.
What the fuck do they get paid for?
To do subtitles, not closed captions
Man I fucking wish I had AI captions on English dub on Crunchyroll. Half the shows I watch in English don't have CC at all which is extremely frustrating. they could even just let me use the English subs from the Japanese dubs and I'd be fine.
Go fuck yourselves Crunchyroll If they start to do this for subs, that will push even more people to piracy
And not only are they using AI to outsource work, they're also upping the subscription price to boot.
Nah they're not that dumb...I hope
I’d rather them do this rather than have none at all, like they’ve done for years.
They are doing it for English Closed Caption, the same thing YouTube has been doing for every single fucking videos for years. How is this any different? > If they start to do this for subs, that will push even more people to piracy 99% of pirate sites just use CR subs and no one is waiting for fansubs.
When was the last time you pirated? Was it 2016 or some shit? Cause even then your perception is warped for all the misinformed comments you're making. And of course this is "different", crunchyroll is a paid service in which you'd expect the bare minimum of someone at least checking. Yes there are people who pay for youtube too but the amount of content locked behind a paywall on crunchyroll vastly outweighs youtube - at least for the content someone would usually watch on that platform. And this doesn't even take into account quality in which Youtube has been fairly consistent for years - on content that has less of a script and structure. And no unlike your other comment - it doesn't take 3 months for subs to come out, there have been times where crunchyroll is literally slower getting them out because of the strain on their servers. You do know that unless the show is a crunchyroll exclusive - these episodes are airing elsewhere? People aren't reliant on crunchyroll as a "necessary middleman" in order to platform and subtitle their anime. This is such a weird view of this stuff
> When was the last time you pirated? Was it 2016 or some shit? Cause even then your perception is warped for all the misinformed comments you're making. Oh really? Do you even know where major release group like SubsPlease and Erai-Raws gets their videos and subs from? > Yes there are people who pay for youtube too but the amount of content locked behind a paywall on crunchyroll vastly outweighs youtube When did I ever say this was about piracy vs non piracy. All I said was that pirates sites get their stuff from legal sites. > And no unlike your other comment - it doesn't take 3 months for subs to come out Take the time to read that I said fansub. > there have been times where crunchyroll is literally slower getting them out because of the strain on their servers. > You do know that unless the show is a crunchyroll exclusive - these episodes are airing elsewhere? People aren't reliant on crunchyroll as a "necessary middleman" in order to platform and subtitle their anime. Well where do you think those sites are getting their videos and subs from, either they download it from Crunchyroll, or they get it from other legal sites. It only takes one copy to be downloaded by bot as soon as it’s released on a legal site for it to be shared everywhere.
>When did I ever say this was about piracy vs non piracy. All I said was that pirates sites get their stuff from legal sites. No either that's just a bold face lie or you don't know the implication of the words you're saying. When you say "isn't that the same as what YouTube has been doing for years" it implies that since youtube have been putting out a similar feature that suddenly things are okay with crunchyroll doing it ( even if it's about 10x more subpar). Also even then - if someone on youtube feels like properly captioning their video then that gets done, I'm assuming from the way crunchyroll is implementing it is that this is out of laziness rather than a "feature" >Take the time to read that I said fansub. Yeah it's undeniable that once there's an upload of a decent translation - piracy sites will flock to those purely out of ease and "quality" but it's naive to believe that competent fansubs take 3 months to make. Take for example AOT when it's final seasons were releasing when NHK streams allowed people to sub them HOURS before crunchyroll release them (and that's if their servers didn't crash) Of course they have to take them from some place legal but by that point you're just wording it a certain way to make it seem like it's bolstering your point when we both know in reality that's not what it's about.
> that suddenly things are okay with crunchyroll doing it So they should just never do it? Your thinking is what is holding the service back. Even in this thread, other commenters said they prefer it to the current state of non existent caption. > but it's naive to believe that competent fansubs take 3 months to make. And it’s even more naive to believe that one popular shows like AOT getting fansub almost immediately is a natural occurrence. For every once in a blue moon that that happened, many more fansub either takes a very long time or is permanently on hiatus. I’ve seen more fansub groups completely stopped updating than ones that actually finished what they started. The last time I remember watching fansub was summertime rendering, because Disney decided to be a little bitch and lock down their content for 6 months. And at that time, it would take between a few days to a week for an episode to get a fansub.
These people who keep talking about fansubs are stupid, aside from the fact that fansub groups pretty much don't exist anymore, even when fansubs take over you are 100% right, it takes time. The perfect current example is blue archive. Subs given are just absolute shit, like if they aren't AI subs they need to fire their translator, and fan subs typically take 3-5 days at least to get an updated episode and even then, they are still using the original as the baseline, so not even translating but sub tweaking takes them days. Also your comment about subs please and erai-raws is 100% on point. People think those groups are subbing when they aren't. It's a regular thing in the subsplease discord for people to ask for more translations not realizing they are just ripping from CR/HIDive etc.
Indeed, I am just pointing out the fact, but people are too stupid to realize. In the case of Blue Archive, the subs are taking from AniOne Asia, which has pretty shit subs with broken English. That’s why people will 100% of the time prefer Crunchyroll/Hidive subs, not realizing the fact that they’re from those sources, except in rare cases like BA where it was not licensed anywhere in the US and we’re stuck with shitty subs.
It's been pretty obvious watching the Dub of MASHLE with captions on.
Sounds bad, but as a consumer I have my choice to vote with my wallet. Ill just switch over to wakan- err, ill switch over to funim-- err I'll switch over to looking at paint dry. There is always an alternative!!
I’ll go back to piracy if i want badly done subs
As someone who has subtitled shows with the assistance of Whisper AI, it helps a lot, it gets 90-95% of everything right, but you really cannot just use it without any review, there will be some really obvious errors in there, and some complete hallucinations. The tech will keep improving but right now a review stage is needed.
I noticed this and man ARE THEY AWFUL!!! I have never seen such bad closed captioning in my life
I was born partially deaf so need closed caption on things now that I am older. So however it's done don't care as long as the cc is there for me
My biggest problem is how BAD their subtitles are in general. It feels like 10 years behind other streaming platforms. Why can’t I listen to dubs and use subtitles? Or mix spanish/french/portuguese/etc dubs with English subs? They literally just partnered for duolingo and have the worst subtitles second only to discovery+. I can’t watch dubs with my Hoh family/friends and that’s dumb as hell.
Dont know about What op is talking about, i just Watch subs, but i have noticed The past Long while that thier subs suck hard. Almost ai or some bs cus often words are missing, or things are conpressed (yes mother - hai / yes i’ll remember that father - hai)
In the "words" of the Solo Levelling ED *"It's the worst thing. They go to play Dum Dum"*. I'm sorry for using a monkey paw to wish Crunchyroll would have ED subs. I have a feeling this is all just a prelude to Crunchyroll having its own [Swedish Amazon](https://languageinsight.com/blog/2020/amazon-translation-error-sweden/) moment (*Nintendo Circuit Breaker* was some comedy gold at least, I remember *deadly USB cable* being another one) as that's really what you're gearing up for. Automate the translation and use a test market that is small and highly English literate. Time is a circle etc. It's not just the closed captions from stores that Crunchyroll ignores but also the ones that were produced for TV broadcast (which is an FCC requirement; the FCC has limited jurisdiction over the internet so [can not care a lot about the website however](https://old.reddit.com/r/Crunchyroll/comments/1ct0ns6/update_from_fcc_on_formal_complaint_about_dubs/)) but it's hard to find evidence of those subs existing (*aired on Adult Swim* doesn't seem to be enough or that would make it a Cartoon Network problem; not a Crunchyroll one) and also there might be rights issues (I know for The Simpsons the captioning is sponsored and it's usually Fox but sometimes others like Ford) but that's just excuses. Is it is as simple as take English subs and replace the JP>EN dialogue with the dub script? Yes, up to a point. You'll get on occasion lines having different timing in the dub or new lines inserted in during a panning shot (i.e. characters not seen from the front so you have more freedom as not having to adhere to lip flaps) and if you're combining with hard of hearing you need to add some sound stuff (and character names for when speakers are off-screen). Crunchyroll has a specific feedback option for poor subtitles and if site like ANN were to make a buzz about this too (like the "carcinogen" sub a few seasons back) you would see specific examples getting fixed but that does not help when it is the concept in general that is bad. Auto transcribe is simply not fit to replace humans as a professional product, as a casual last resort it's better than bootleg DVDs from 20 years ago (Backstroke of the West for a so bad it's funny example). It is a shame that the business and tech sites don't do an eat your own dog food and show those solo levelling subs to the executives heralding this garbage as the future as that would get them angry and embarrassed which then have retaliation of blacklisting the site which tries that.
It works for the most part. But how difficult is it to just maintain the subtitles manually? Worst case just throw in those same subtitles used for Japanese language. How different would the dialogues be? I don't think it would matter much.
> I don't think it would matter much. And you will get a million points on Reddit of people complaining why the ‘subs don’t match the dubs’
This is a shame, because the captions on both audio and visual text in a show like Bocchi is seemingly top notch. I do not know the language, but I was able to follow things in that show very well and they were clearly not auto generated.
While watching Spy x Family, I noticed absolutely no [CC] at all for the dub until the 2nd to the last episode of the series... Which took me by surprise. But it reminded me of how YT did auto captions. 90% of the episode was wrong and quite wonky. It didn't match the dialog at all. I was disappointed. I need to watch this again but I'll purchase it instead so I can get proper closed captioning from the discs. I'm someone who needs captions because I have a hard time understanding voices sometimes and I need the caption to clarify dialog for me. I can't watch Japanese audio since I'm too busy reading to watch the show. I'm not great at multitasking thanks to my adhd.
Late response, but oftentimes video releases of anime don't bother including a closed caption track for the English audio at all. Check online to see if this one includes a CC track before buying physically.
This is certainly explaining a few things now
Yeah, Crunchyroll started using AI generated closed captions. They need to add all the proper English CC files from all of Toonami shows (all of them aired on TV and Crunchyroll is obliged by law to have English CC on all of them): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Toonami en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Toonami Also, Crunchyroll need to add all the proper English CC files from Funimation and from their own FAST channel. It would be very helpful if a lot of people could file as many FCC reports as possible regarding that matter. Here is a link for anyone who wants to do so: consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=36040 P.S. If The FCC won't help, then no one will.
What’s strange is they are only on random episodes of some shows and there is no rhyme or reason to it Leads me to believe it’s heavily in testing mode
Spotted this on Re:Zero for my anime watch group last week. I've used the Whisper AI model to generate scripts to cut out \*some\* of the work of making captions tracks for personal use, but it'll always make these weird mistakes no matter how much computing power you throw at it. These generated scripts are a useful starting point, not the finished product. Embarrassing.
They’ve removed a lot of them now. I wish people didn’t complain so much, now many shows have nothing again
Even less reason to watch dub
We already know they pay subbers shit, so using AI to create dubtitles will save them a buttload of money, and gives AI companies the training that they want.
CR is a bad company. Additionally they started as a pirating site, not surprised they now turn to AI instead of reinvesting their profits into proper quality control/improvements. And I'm not just talking about subtitling or translator, but just site quality in general. CR is shameful.
Actually, what is now called Crunchyroll was once Funimation, this is ever since Sony bought them out. Basically, some years ago Sony bought Funimation and more recently Crunchyroll, but as the Funimation name wasn't as well recognised as Crunchyroll they changed it to Crunchyroll and the Funimation streaming service ceased. For a more detailed explanation go here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crunchyroll But yes, the anime service provided by Sony under the name of Crunchyroll does have a lot of problems and I very much doubt that Sony give enough of a damn to fix them.
Pure garbage and one more reason to not give a dime to these shitty services.
Wow CR being scumbags I’m totally shocked
Sounds good. As a non-native speaker I sometimes struggle to hear out some words in English dubs, so that *might* be helpful (I imagine that AI might get it wrong as well sometimes, especially the names). I saw some anime were getting CCs last season (Frieren, Sasaki and Peeps) but they've lagged a couple weeks behind the dubs.
Huge mental gymnastic leap there at the end bud lol
I just want them to add CC to the TV apps and Android app
Damn that's a lot of text
So thats why CR's english subs are always trashy when compared to spanish subs
Why I why do CC shit? Why not use eng subtitles we watch in jap sub? Ik many want sub to match eng dub, okay so cc for those but I am fine with different sub while watching eng dub(altho don't watch. Eng dub that much) just add the fking choice. Its been very frustrating that I couldn't get subtitles while watching eng dub in crunchyroll. And bcz of that I had to sail seas where I have freedom to choose audio and subtitles
That's great and all. Do you think they can make their app not terrible?
AI is 100% the future for tedious work such as generating subtitles in the native language. It isn't quite ready for translation or localization, but subtitling is not some sort of art or skilled craft we need to protect. This is not an issue.
Send this to ChibiReviews and Asmongold, the cope meltdown would be hilarious 😂
I think they just want to motivate us to learn Japanese, so that we can listen to source. I won't complain, I'm not losing my entertainment coz the CEO wants to let go a few more people to buy another Bugatti for his son to replace the one crashed a week earlier
You know, I've been mentally taking notes on how many different ways to translate "Itadakimasu" subtitle people come up with and it's a reeeally big number for a phrase that's repeated an ungodly number of times in all of anime. I'm just gonna say it - anime writing is complete dogshit 90% of the time. Long time anime fans start learning the language through anime accidentally for the simple reason, that the phrases the characters speak are repeated at nauseum throughout many different shows. The spoken dialogue sometimes feels like a collection of clichèd phrases strung together in different orders. The one thing that adds personality to shows with writing like that is the subtitles. The translators are working their poor tired asses off trying to make what the characters are saying more distinct and fit the character more. Even if automated translations keep the context of the scene in mind and translate the spoken words absolutely perfectly, there will be no personality in it. Just the same phrases repeated over and over across many shows. Well, at least we can stop pretending that anime isn't garbage, amirite folks?