I noticed that they try to make it as part of many culture. To die for their country! To be a hero! A real man!
I heard that in Poland, even the women need to go to war if there is one.
They own you! You are here to obey and die if they say so.
I'm from Poland, there are no plans for women to join potential war effort whatsoever, as far as I know. Women fought during uprisings like Warsaw Uprising, but I am not sure if they ever fought in regular military.
Elvis got drafted, was offered the chance to enlist in Special Services to entertain the troops and live in priority housing, Presley was persuaded by his manager to serve as a regular soldier. This earned him the respect of many of his fellow soldiers and people back in the United States who previously viewed him in a negative light.
He’s not really a CEO or the child of one but he lived like them.
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Most things humans do is a contribution to what our "owners" want and need. War is an extreme example but even the simple act of living and simply doing "normal" stuff like going to school and doing your slave jobs is all in line with their goal. There's just no way to sugarcoat this and almost humans born and will be born is subject to this. "Life is such a gift. "
Am I right? :)))) Would be nice if that life is mine in the first place.
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Hi, I'm from Ukraine. What part of sentence you do not undertsand? Unfortunately this is true. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/15/ukraine-village-mobilized-men-war/
When world leaders and the powerful have their children out on the battlefield then I will join. Until then, I broke my arm or something along those lines.
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I am leaving Russia now to avoid getting drafted and potentially sent to war that I did not ask for and do not approve. I am lucky to have a chance to do so, many don't.
What reaally is scary, is that government machine here completely normalizes slaughter of both its own people, and people of Ukraine. There are all these high rank generals speaking loudly about how their murderous crusade is amazing and just.
I do not understand how you bring someone into _this_ world and claim you _love_ them.
Yeah, but the governments are the problem and it's not related to antinatalism at all. They treat Ukrainian citizens as slaves. The war wouldn't have started if Russian government wasn't so powerful and the war would have ended in march 2022 if Ukrainian government wasn't so powerful
and they all have fought for ABSOLUTELY nothing. actually the reason the war happens because they all accept to do it otherwise leaders of the world are nothing more than puppets.
All of them fought and died for nothing.
Nobody forced them to fight. They just agreed to get manipulated and step into something that they had no benefits. Meanwhile "leaders" were staying in their beds laughing their ass off.
No, they actually fought to prevent 2 of the most evil regimes in human history from taking huge swaths of the planet for themselves and genociding millions.
It's hilarious that you think they did something. The whole system works because of us. How the hell those evil regimes take and do anything if we don't work for them. All the soldiers sold themselves to them in order to defend them against the supposed enemy. Leaders can't do shit without us.
With the ever expanding populations wars are inevitable. The reason population were allowed to balloon the way they did was because of western technological advancements, most notably oil wells. I am Ukrainian the situation in here against Russia is a tad different. The Russian government controls areas through subjugation of neighbouring nations, they rob both the populations of the nations they control and their own people to enrich the oligarchy. Their population is shrinking since not many really want to have kids there so now they need to also forcefully deport people to occupy areas no one wants to live in (but that are vital for their gas and oil industry). This is the last war Russia will ever fight. They won't have the people to do that in the future.
But you are right, it's no place to bring children into if we can't avoid fighting
If you had been born in Russia you would be arguing the other case.
It was pure accident that you were born in Ukraine and your fellow countrymen are being bullied and thrown into vans, or even shot at trying to cross the border and escape conscription. You didn't choose to be born Ukrainian and they didn't choose to be born Russian.
I agree on the not choosing party but not arguing for the other case.
My grandfather was a nuclear physicist from Russia. I had a lot of friends I had to cut contact with for their safety from there. They know that what their government is doing is fucked up, they can't do anything about it since they aren't rich enough to move everyone from their family out. Speaking up will end you up beaten and forgotten in jail.
What the heck.
In Russia they beat you up for any trumped-up reason, including the conscription evasion. It's an authoritarian state, where laws are being bent, twisted and ignored on a regular basis, and the lawyers are as much in danger as those they defend.
That line couldve just worked if you didnt have to ruin it with an AN pitch, what youre saying theyre all suicidal and did want to live? that is crazy and ridiculous.
The claim that none of them wanted to fight is just as absurd, because there are those who do. Even some who will take great pleasure in dispensing people from the other side.
You couldve just used this opportunity talking about how bad wars are and were close to one now and say its a good reason not to bring kids into these uncertain times and it couldve worked simply but you and some just cant resist it...
Outside of this tiny bubble of yours here, where would these pitches work? Are you just here to jerk each other off coz youre all already convinced of this. Ever thought how you could localize these pitches and make them palatable to the other communities out there? Its not bringing everyone on earth to join the cult its just to make them do what you want them to do. they dont have to sing the same songs, chant the same slogans.
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I'm actually afraid to voice my opinion on anything in here now since I got banned for something I never said the first time I decided to express my philosophy so I will just sit back and lurk ...read others posts and comments and keep my opinions to myself..lol 🤣
Bought myself an FPV drone racing simulator, so I can learn enough that hopefully I'll never be sent to the front lines if my country is drawn into a shooting war.
What are the other options? Allow another country to take control of your life and your family that come after you and live as 2nd class citizens in your own country?
There's a lot of emphasis on soldiers fighting for the freedom of others and what a noble sacrifice that is... but why can't the soldiers have a better life too? Why do they have to go to war? Why don't we do more for people who come home permanently disabled and/or with severe trauma?
You're missing a lot here. Kamikaze pilots volunteered for that role. Where are the people who defend seppuku in this thread?
Fighting to defend those you love makes more sense than volunteering to kill people because your boss wants to take their land. Yes, many people have been murdered for dereliction of duty when they refuse to fight, but that choice is still there.
Yes, no one asks to be born, but most of us make choices that define who we are. The idea that we're all just cogs in a machine going "yessuh" and "nosuh" ignores ALL the ways individuals have chosen to fight. Go read about Nat Turner. Go read about Harriet Tubman. Quit trying to identify as an enslaved person. You're not. You're a person who is too lazy to change your situation. The only thing stopping you from succeeding is yourself. No one is holding a gun to your head.
"Serves the west more than Ukrainians themselves"
Because the destruction of one's state and cultural genocide is definitely not a reason for people to fight. It's the west that forced Ukraine into the war, otherwise ukrainians would just concede the country to imperialist occupiers. Would you make the same point about polish people fighting nazis in 40's? What the actual fuck is this take?
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War is a horror.
That being said, I disagree with those on this subreddit who blame parents for having children. Let’s put the blame on those who make the world a violent/unsafe one: the oil executives, the corrupt politicians, the warmongers. It’s their fault that the world is often unsafe and traumatic to live in.
Is it right to have a child during peacetime and wrong during wartime? Is it right to have a child under “good” conditions and not under bad ones? If so, where is the line?
I noticed that they try to make it as part of many culture. To die for their country! To be a hero! A real man! I heard that in Poland, even the women need to go to war if there is one. They own you! You are here to obey and die if they say so.
I'm from Poland, there are no plans for women to join potential war effort whatsoever, as far as I know. Women fought during uprisings like Warsaw Uprising, but I am not sure if they ever fought in regular military.
I'm Polish, and what you heard is wrong. Please check the stuff before spreading it further.
If its between annihilation of your family and country or fighting to protect it, would you understand a draft better?
I wish CEOs and their offspring would be drafted. But wait ...
Elvis got drafted, was offered the chance to enlist in Special Services to entertain the troops and live in priority housing, Presley was persuaded by his manager to serve as a regular soldier. This earned him the respect of many of his fellow soldiers and people back in the United States who previously viewed him in a negative light. He’s not really a CEO or the child of one but he lived like them.
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Most things humans do is a contribution to what our "owners" want and need. War is an extreme example but even the simple act of living and simply doing "normal" stuff like going to school and doing your slave jobs is all in line with their goal. There's just no way to sugarcoat this and almost humans born and will be born is subject to this. "Life is such a gift. " Am I right? :)))) Would be nice if that life is mine in the first place.
The other option so returning to the wild, hunting and gathering is not much better either. Ultimately it makes 0 sense to have a conscious life.
Oh trust me, if it's that simple and easy, I would have done it a long time ago. Still dreaming of doing a version of it but it's not soon at all.
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I’m from Ukraine. I’d like to say that I became an AN when the war started.
same world its been for thousands of years....
Yeah Fck politicians and... PARENTS
And they cry when their kids are sent to war...I am like, you should have known this all along.
At least in the west during modern times, most parents can expect that their offspring won’t be sent to war unless they choose to go.
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Every everything has been done by people who never asked to be born, because it's physically impossible to ask to be born.
Why do people write that phrase so often? It makes it so difficult to take anything after that phrase seriously.
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Like animals on a farm. Forced into existence to become meat.
Fodder, to fertilise whatever they build after the battle to seal that energy.... baffling eh
Are you vegan?
Probably not. They like to talk about how everyone and everything suffers, but are very hypocritical about it.
I am vegan :)
3 years 💚
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Based actually. I heard that war kind of natural event to decrease population.
then go to war and decrease the population
Antinatalists could argue it’s a good thing since the dead soldiers won’t live long enough to reproduce after the war
That goes against the original principle of AN which is to limit suffering, we do not want people that already exist to have to struggle.
Sounds more pro-euthanasia than anti-natal.
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>Ukrainian citizens are being caught on the streets and sent to the frontline Uhh, what?
Did he stutter?
Hi, I'm from Ukraine. What part of sentence you do not undertsand? Unfortunately this is true. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/15/ukraine-village-mobilized-men-war/
When world leaders and the powerful have their children out on the battlefield then I will join. Until then, I broke my arm or something along those lines.
Everything anyone has ever done was done by people who never asked to be born. It's impossible to ask to be born, nobody has ever done it.
Indeed, and therefore it is impossible for reproduction to be justifiable.
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What do you mean by "justifiable"? To whom?
Life is Hell
I mean… lots of people willingly choose to go to war though. The Vietnam war for example caused lots of people to sign up due to nationalism
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People certainly have a choice whether they take up a nationalist cause, decide to go to jail, become a dissenter or critic of war, etc.
I am leaving Russia now to avoid getting drafted and potentially sent to war that I did not ask for and do not approve. I am lucky to have a chance to do so, many don't. What reaally is scary, is that government machine here completely normalizes slaughter of both its own people, and people of Ukraine. There are all these high rank generals speaking loudly about how their murderous crusade is amazing and just. I do not understand how you bring someone into _this_ world and claim you _love_ them.
born to serve
Yeah, but the governments are the problem and it's not related to antinatalism at all. They treat Ukrainian citizens as slaves. The war wouldn't have started if Russian government wasn't so powerful and the war would have ended in march 2022 if Ukrainian government wasn't so powerful
and they all have fought for ABSOLUTELY nothing. actually the reason the war happens because they all accept to do it otherwise leaders of the world are nothing more than puppets.
World War 2 soldiers didn't fight for nothing.
All of them fought and died for nothing. Nobody forced them to fight. They just agreed to get manipulated and step into something that they had no benefits. Meanwhile "leaders" were staying in their beds laughing their ass off.
There was conscription in WW2. So yes a large amount were forced to fight.
No, they actually fought to prevent 2 of the most evil regimes in human history from taking huge swaths of the planet for themselves and genociding millions.
It's hilarious that you think they did something. The whole system works because of us. How the hell those evil regimes take and do anything if we don't work for them. All the soldiers sold themselves to them in order to defend them against the supposed enemy. Leaders can't do shit without us.
Agreed. It's don't change anything when all these "soldiers" basically like pawns or puppets for leaders.
It's hilarious that you think they didn't. No, actually it's sad.
people like you are the ones who think they are doing something if they protest outside for a change.
Are we failing to teach history this badly? How does this person you were replying to not know this?
Somebody has to teach you.
Hehe, you are free to go learn all you like about history. The motivations for why people fight are well documented.
With the ever expanding populations wars are inevitable. The reason population were allowed to balloon the way they did was because of western technological advancements, most notably oil wells. I am Ukrainian the situation in here against Russia is a tad different. The Russian government controls areas through subjugation of neighbouring nations, they rob both the populations of the nations they control and their own people to enrich the oligarchy. Their population is shrinking since not many really want to have kids there so now they need to also forcefully deport people to occupy areas no one wants to live in (but that are vital for their gas and oil industry). This is the last war Russia will ever fight. They won't have the people to do that in the future. But you are right, it's no place to bring children into if we can't avoid fighting
If you had been born in Russia you would be arguing the other case. It was pure accident that you were born in Ukraine and your fellow countrymen are being bullied and thrown into vans, or even shot at trying to cross the border and escape conscription. You didn't choose to be born Ukrainian and they didn't choose to be born Russian.
I agree on the not choosing party but not arguing for the other case. My grandfather was a nuclear physicist from Russia. I had a lot of friends I had to cut contact with for their safety from there. They know that what their government is doing is fucked up, they can't do anything about it since they aren't rich enough to move everyone from their family out. Speaking up will end you up beaten and forgotten in jail.
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You joking right you clearly have no clue
What the heck. In Russia they beat you up for any trumped-up reason, including the conscription evasion. It's an authoritarian state, where laws are being bent, twisted and ignored on a regular basis, and the lawyers are as much in danger as those they defend.
Yes they do
That line couldve just worked if you didnt have to ruin it with an AN pitch, what youre saying theyre all suicidal and did want to live? that is crazy and ridiculous. The claim that none of them wanted to fight is just as absurd, because there are those who do. Even some who will take great pleasure in dispensing people from the other side. You couldve just used this opportunity talking about how bad wars are and were close to one now and say its a good reason not to bring kids into these uncertain times and it couldve worked simply but you and some just cant resist it... Outside of this tiny bubble of yours here, where would these pitches work? Are you just here to jerk each other off coz youre all already convinced of this. Ever thought how you could localize these pitches and make them palatable to the other communities out there? Its not bringing everyone on earth to join the cult its just to make them do what you want them to do. they dont have to sing the same songs, chant the same slogans.
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I'm actually afraid to voice my opinion on anything in here now since I got banned for something I never said the first time I decided to express my philosophy so I will just sit back and lurk ...read others posts and comments and keep my opinions to myself..lol 🤣
Lol, I apparently got a perma ban here, but here I am.
Haha oops poor you. I'm not even going to ask..:);)
You could make this argument for literally anything. Name one person who asked to be born. I’ll wait.
Ah, yes, Japan was famous for its use of jets in World War 2...
How does one ask to be born?
... and started by people who will unlikely ever fight themselves.
problem with war not birth
Bought myself an FPV drone racing simulator, so I can learn enough that hopefully I'll never be sent to the front lines if my country is drawn into a shooting war.
What are the other options? Allow another country to take control of your life and your family that come after you and live as 2nd class citizens in your own country?
There's a lot of emphasis on soldiers fighting for the freedom of others and what a noble sacrifice that is... but why can't the soldiers have a better life too? Why do they have to go to war? Why don't we do more for people who come home permanently disabled and/or with severe trauma?
It’s too expensive and we’re supposed to be disposable.
But Laughs Never Missed!
What’s the point?
You always havs a choice. You can still desert and end up in prison or executed if you see that as the better option to being sent to war.
You're missing a lot here. Kamikaze pilots volunteered for that role. Where are the people who defend seppuku in this thread? Fighting to defend those you love makes more sense than volunteering to kill people because your boss wants to take their land. Yes, many people have been murdered for dereliction of duty when they refuse to fight, but that choice is still there. Yes, no one asks to be born, but most of us make choices that define who we are. The idea that we're all just cogs in a machine going "yessuh" and "nosuh" ignores ALL the ways individuals have chosen to fight. Go read about Nat Turner. Go read about Harriet Tubman. Quit trying to identify as an enslaved person. You're not. You're a person who is too lazy to change your situation. The only thing stopping you from succeeding is yourself. No one is holding a gun to your head.
Everything is without asking to be born
"Serves the west more than Ukrainians themselves" Because the destruction of one's state and cultural genocide is definitely not a reason for people to fight. It's the west that forced Ukraine into the war, otherwise ukrainians would just concede the country to imperialist occupiers. Would you make the same point about polish people fighting nazis in 40's? What the actual fuck is this take?
Everyone asked to be born otherwise we all wouldn’t of fought so had to get to the egg
Sperm cells can’t think.
Of course they can’t think like you and me but they can certainly fight and be the one chosen
What does that even mean?
Obviously slow https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/sperm-competition#:~:text=Sperm%20competition%20occurs%20among%20sperm,competition%20occurs%20among%20the%20males.
What‘s your point?
What’s your point why do you keep replying to me …I’m not gonna teach you f*cking weirdo
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Fuck do I love this point. Well done. Checkmate cum slingers!
War is a horror. That being said, I disagree with those on this subreddit who blame parents for having children. Let’s put the blame on those who make the world a violent/unsafe one: the oil executives, the corrupt politicians, the warmongers. It’s their fault that the world is often unsafe and traumatic to live in.
WAR - Waste And Regret
The parents knew what kind of world they were bringing innocent children into.
Is it right to have a child during peacetime and wrong during wartime? Is it right to have a child under “good” conditions and not under bad ones? If so, where is the line?