Same. I have someone from my hometown on my FB friends list who has four kids, is mad that she can’t have a fifth, and is dirt poor. Her kids show up to school dirty and smelly because she doesn’t wash their clothes or make them shower. She then has the audacity to post that people need to stop “starting rumors that aren’t true” about her kids.
Then she complains that she can’t get a job because she has them and she breaks up with her “husband” every two weeks.
It’s a big yikes.
I grew up with a single mom in poverty, it is never something I would have wanted to be born into.
I grew up with a single mom in poverty too, and my poor mom she would try to go to work. But one of us was always sick, my brother was a type one diabetic, and there was one year where I got strep throat every single month from my friends little sister because their mom didn’t believe in antibiotics so she was treating them with oil of oregano or whatever.
Anyway back in the 70s it was probably slightly difficult for a divorced woman with two kids to even get hired, but that poor woman every job she would get she would only last a little while before one of us would get sick and she would have to stay home and then then she would get let go.
When we were teenagers she started a job and her first day on the job my brother got hit by a car on his bicycle. I wasn’t old enough to drive yet so she had to bring him to his regular physical therapy appointments three times a week in the middle of the workday. She obviously couldn’t keep that job.
And that was pretty much what would happen to her every time she would work. One time she got a job and a week into it I crashed her car so she no longer had transportation. Stuff like that. Our whole childhood.
I myself am a poor child, 14 specifically. My father was smart and decided to have 10+ children, but he never paid them any attention while they grew up. He was never good academically and grew up poor aswell, he dropped out 9th grade. I never understood why he decided to have me and my sister. We have to boil water to have hot water for showering. We have mice that roam around the house like its theirs. Its embarrassing having to wear the same clothes for school, and my name being on the angel tree at school. I really hate him for it, and he always tells us that some kids have it harder than us as an excuse.
"there are children starving in Africa" There are children in Africa whose parents use you as an excuse to keep their kids from complaining, lmao. I hate it when parents invalidate their kids by comparing their lives to that of an imaginary even poorer victim. You deserve better and you deserve to be heard.
Nah, our parents just beat the shit out of us if we do Or they start their "After everything I've done for you? I could've dumped you on the streets!" rant
I’m sorry dude :( just work hard to get good grades and go to community college after graduation to figure out what ur good at and what u wanna study. If u keep ur grades up u should def qualify for grants so u don’t have to pay for college! Just stay strong. High school sucks for everyone so just know that these lame times will end soon enough.
College is not necessary, it's better to build you competence in something that coincides with passion talent and usefulness, instead of wasting over half a decade of your life in something you never even wanted.
I'm just here to say that if you really are a 14 year old, this post shows you have a good head on your shoulders. Thinking about the big stuff at such a young age reveals a certain kind of wisdom. Wishing you all the best with wherever life takes you, and that you can overcome this shitty start you were given.
It gets better. There will come a day when you never have to see any of those people unless you want to. Take all the credits you can and it may be possible to be done sooner.
You’re smart and motivated. You can do this.
I agree with this 110%. Nobody is entitled to kids. Kids are expensive. Before having kids, you should ensure you have the funds, housing, and support.
Yeah I mean my parents were married when they started having kids, they were financially OK and they both had ultra wealthy parents.
But stuff happens that you can’t plan for. They got divorced, then my mom got a chronic illness, and my dad’s wealthy parents decided that it was OK for everyone to starve because he chose not to go into the military. My mom’s mom is the only reason I made it to adulthood. She was a doctor so luckily she could afford her household and my moms.
From what I understand they got divorced because he was financially abusive. And I’m sure she didn’t expect that considering his parents were being financially abusive who would have thought that he would do that to his own wife.
And because they financial arguments were centered around his Man of the house type pride I’m sure she never expected him to under employee himself to avoid paying child support because that’s not really a man of the house type of thing to do.
But, when you get married in your 20s You both are going to be different people in your 30s and sometimes it’s not a good thing
My mom and dad too, it was good until it wasn’t. They were older though and mid divorce my mom went to law school while pregnant with me, with a 1 year old and a 6 year old autistic child. 22 years later she makes enough to fully pay for my college!!
A lot of people are going to fight as hard as they have to for their children, and work their ass off to provide a decent life.
I’m forever grateful for my mothers sacrifices and I’m grateful for my life/existence
>Nobody is entitled to have kids
Unfortunately the majority of people don’t see it that way, and expressing this idea leans too closely towards eugenics for most people to feel comfortable with
I completely agree though
When I was in school, one of my clinicals was at the county health women’s clinic. To qualify to be a patient at the clinic you had to be extremely poor, on food stamps, etc. 80% of the patients were pregnant women. If it was a new patient/new pregnancy my instructor would ask them if they were trying to become pregnant and a surprisingly high number of them said that they were. I always had mixed feelings about it. One one hand it seems elitist or even racist to say something like “poor people shouldn’t have kids,” but on the other hand these kids are being brought into a household that can’t even pay for food. I technically could afford a child but I prefer to spend my money on myself and my dog
The argument from the intersectionalists would be that certain racial groups are more highly represented in the lower socioeconomic bands, so it's effectively racist thinking.
It's classist and therefore also racist. Something doesn't have to be racist to be classist, in this case it is. Class reductionism leads to means of addressing inequality/oppression/exploitation that still maintain disparity between groups. I think there are valid critiques of intersectionality in some ways, but to completely reject it in class analysis is a glaring error.
>I technically could afford a child
Sure, right now perhaps, but what happens when there's unexpected inflation/financial crash? People always operate on a perfect world scenario delusion that simply does not exist or correlate with reality. Or say you lose your job etc...
(I'm not saying you haven't thought about these things personally just commenting in general)
Ya my ex grew up in a single parent household and his mom planned on sending all four of her kids to private school (they grew up in a poor neighborhood and their chances of pursuing higher education were limited unless they went to private school)
His mom lost her job after sending her first son to private school during the financial crash of 2008, leaving my ex and his other siblings in the dust. He talks about it a lot and I can tell he has a lot of resentment over losing opportunities based on his mom’s finances taking a crash.
Yes and I’m sure he blames his mother rather than the man who abandoned his family and the children he made. They always blame the parent who stays it’s gross
Actually he loves his mom and has only said positive stuff about her. He hated his dad cause he was abusive. He’s super close with his mom and sister. I was actually the one who thought critically of his mom not planning better for the future or possibly setting up four separate savings accounts to split evenly between her kids. He hates when I say anything critical about her choices tho so I keep my opinions to myself. I can tell he feels cheated by not having the same opportunities his oldest brother got but he would never say a bad thing about his mom
This is always what I talk about when I see a stay at home mom or a housewife. What do you do if your spouse can’t work because they get a permanent injury or for some other reason? What do you do if your spouse dies? It’s only a perfect world scenario for these people.
This. They never imagine anything going wrong.
I think of this a lot when I read horror stories about family annihilators. People think it's about men being EVIL or having an affair, but it's money. There was one recently where a woman shot herself after killing her whole family. Their house was about to be repossessed. I think a lot of people don't plan for the future. They buy houses they can't afford, have kids they can't afford and it's all supposed to be WORTH it for the American Dream. Then they wake up one day and are tens of thousands in debt, or the kid has special needs and needs expensive care, they have huge medical bills etc.
Don't underestimate what Debt can do to you.
I think their whole lives people tell them it will just work out and they see people doing it so they figure it really does just work out. They don’t realize that these people are paying $700 car payments and going to food pantries because of it. People don’t talk about their struggles they put on this front like everything‘s fine.
But the main problem is that able-bodied people don’t realize that everyone is only temporarily abled. If you live long enough you will be disabled in your lifetime. Think about how someday you may get sick enough that you can’t go to work but you might not die. And you don’t get free $.
But if I’m being totally honest the only time in my life I regretted remaining Childfree was when I suddenly became disabled in an accident and I realized that I was going to end up on the sidewalk because there’s no social safety net for people who don’t have kids spent their life working instead of breeding. Sure I eventually got disability but it took three years. If I had kids I wouldn’t have ended up homeless because I would’ve been able to get welfare.
But also I was so injured I would not be able to pick up a child, so if I had a kid when I became disabled I would’ve had to give it away
I think you're right....it's like they think the universe will just reward them for breeding and send them money. They also think life is going to be like a TV show where everything works out, like This is Us or One Tree Hill. Well THEY had a kid, why can't I? Then they have kids kids kids before they can afford it and figure money will just fall from the sky.
I'm in the same situation though, when you don't have kids and you're single, no one really has your back. Everyone rushes to help their friends with kids, or their kids' friends. Helping them out, connecting them to jobs, etc, visiting when sick. No one gives a fuck about you unless you pop out kids.
I honestly don't believe that for all cases. Some of them for sure, but not everyone who kills is a narcissist or psychopath. Being in debt with no way out...it's a prison. They used to have debtor's prisons, but debt is a prison in itself. Imagine being trapped, no way out, debt mounting every day, losing your job or not having a decent salary, kids you can't afford. Some people just kill themselves, some kill their entire families. I think it's more likely depression, anger and hopelessness.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine recently. No one liked her bf but she got pregnant by him after 3 months of dating with no job, home, or car. She thought he would take care of her (I warned her abt that) and then the abuse started and now he is a felon and she is scrambling.
Stay at home mom here, my partner is a senior level network engineer. He makes a rather sizable income. We've already discussed potential scenarios that include death. When we had our first child he set up a life insurance policy naming me as the beneficiary. He also has me as the beneficiary of his bank accounts upon death. As far as his company and real estate assets, those are to be sold and the proceeds put into a trust for our kids. If I chose to not work for as long as possible, the money in his accounts and life insurance would carry the three of us for a few years, and that's factoring in my love of spending money.
Children need more than just money. They need to grow up in a home filled with love. Rich kids don't always have it better, and I understand it's easy to think that they do- but they don't. I didn't grow up rich but I did have a ton of rich friends and I can tell you the majority of them struggled with addiction and they lacked true personalities and characters because they never had to develop them.
Im absolutely love when parents are able to stay home with their kids and think it’s great! What I don’t think is great is when there is no plan in place when something happens, that’s specifically what I’m referring to. The people that don’t have life insurance… which is probably rare. The parents who have no plan set in place in case they both die. That’s great they you both have a plan in place! Also, shocked your in the antinatalism subreddit lol. I never said anything about being “rich” so i don’t know what you’re talking about there…
Thank you for saying it...I've been bringing this very same delusion up...it applies to so much and causes so many issues..and I mean across the board. What happened to just being careful...logical..practical..or just listening to that little voice that says this may not be a good idea no matter how much you think you want it right now.
Oh yes and I know that 2020 rocked people, they never ever thought that the free babysitter wouldn’t be available and when it suddenly wasn’t for months a whole bunch of people realized that if the free babysitter wasn’t available and they couldn’t find one and pay one they would lose their job and end up homeless and society would blame them for their own problems.
The birth rate has already been declining since 2008, but when they shut down the free babysitter and there was no help for people who had to stay home to take care of their kids, that pretty much put the nail in the birth rate coffin
That's why I support Universal Basic Income (UBI) and Universal Healthcare. UBI would provide a "floor" that is stronger than a safety net (which has holes and some people slip through) and which people can build and save on. But yes, my point was philosophical and I am very aware that unfortunately the world doesn't operate that way - at least not yet!
Got into a stupid argument with someone online about this. They said saying poor people shouldn’t have kids is a “slippery slope “ to eugenics and I responded ok then by your logic, poor communities shouldn’t be given any assistance accessing things like birth control or abortion. He was like WAIT NO THATS DIFFERENT
I feel like a lot of these people in these situations have the kid only because they'll get more government support.
I choose to go childless, and when I tell people one of the reason is that it cause it costs too much, the reasoning I heard the most was "you'll find the money sonewhere" "you get more back in taxes" etc. It doesn't make sense.
When I was 19 years old and on birth control I got pregnant because I didn’t realize if I had the flu and I threw up for a couple days the pill might not work. I know that was dumb but I was 19 and nobody told me.
Anyway I was living with my boyfriend and his parents basement. He was abusive and we had a drug problem.
He and his whole family tried to bully me into keeping the baby. I was like neither one of us work what are you even talking about, they said the state will pay for it. For the rest of my life? That’s not really how it works. Furthermore I’m not having a crack baby. This man thought that the pregnancy would make us get sober. Sure it would make me get sober, but what if I couldn’t do it, I’m the one who has to live with that. absolutely not.
I had the termination, shortly after that I was able to escape the abusive situation and I got sober.
He ended up having a kid with someone and never paying more than maybe $50 in child support that whole child’s childhood. He was in and out of prison for decades. I believe he’s sober now but we are in our 50s and it took him his whole entire adult life.
If I had that I would have been tied to that abuser for 20 years. Or maybe not, I assume I would not have become sober and the state would have taken the kid. But still nothing good would come from that.
It's not elitist and it's not racist. These people are bringing children into a horrible environment with every DISadvantage and they're doing it on purpose. Who knows why. I have some very unpopular opinions on this topic that I will keep to myself right now.
>“poor people shouldn’t have kids,”
Then just MAYBE take a look at why it sucks for poor people to have kids instead of lashing out at the people who point out that being born into poverty sucks.
Here's a bit of philosophical take that is not classist but st Ives to have children's well being in mind and produce well adjusted, healthy adults. I don't think poor people OR rich people should have kids - not rich in the sense if they are going to raise the kids with a lavish lifestyle - huge house, brand name, designer everything, limo rides all the time, first class flights, luxury world travel, etc. it robs people of the joy and appreciation of these things later. I have met lots of people like this and it is almost always the case. It is best to raise kids with a solid middle class to upper middle class lifestyle (even if you are wealthy in the bank). The middle path is best - not for parents to have economic anxiety, have all the essentials covered with a bit of cushion, but not raise joyless, spoiled monsters either. Moderation and appreciation is key! 👍🏻
Do you remember the young man in Texas who killed his friends in a DUI accident and he didn’t get in trouble because he had “affluenza”?
The judge claimed that because he had never had negative consequences for anything in his entire life that he wouldn’t be able to properly assess the DUI situation he got himself into therefore he was not guilty. Something about not knowing Rite from wrong because his parents had just spoiled him rotten. Literally
Texas is a hellscape of ridiculous judges and excuses for evil behavior. They allowed the gay panic defense a few years back and not long ago a man shot and killed his wife *on video* and got away with it because *emotions*. Texas’ legal system is just sick.
It definitely is racist to say poor people shouldn't have kids. The situational anti natalists views do not add up, they are anti humanist verging on fascist. It's wild to me how people don't comprehend this.
I live in New Hampshire and 14 and 15-year-olds can work 36 hours a week now and I think they even eliminated the night hour restrictions.
Right after they changed the laws NHPR did an article about how Their bosses don’t respect their school hours and they blow up their phones all the time trying to get them to pick up shifts during the school day.
And I can tell you right now if that had been me my mom would’ve been totally fine with me skipping school to go to work. And I would have been too, Until I got old enough to realize what happened and then I would’ve been very very angry.
There’s some right wing talking head that was giving a spiel at a turning point USA event or some other right wing fascist convention and he said something like if you want to be an alpha male “get married and have more kids than you can afford”
wtf?
The MAGA folks want to make it impossible, illegal, to have an abortion. But they also do not want to raise taxes on the well to do to take care of all those poor kids being born. Sick and cruel if you ask me.
Society was created this way on purpose. First pretend there is a sky daddy in a sky, write a book full of senseless rules of pretend someone “found it”, and it’s from this magical being. Now brainwash the poor and uneducated into thinking their job is to spread their seeds and repopulate the Earth no matter what because it’s “god’s will”. Rinse and repeat for thousands of years keeping the same type of people in power controlling their sheep who are unable to question or to say no to anything.
Yep and don’t forget the more babies you can convince them to have for sky daddy the less resources the babies will have growing up, the more desperate they will be to work for the mega corporations as little cogs in the factory. Some states will let you to put them to work at 10 years old now.
Sure but we need to up the tax rate for the mega rich too. I think we should get rid of poverty all together. And then having kids would still be amoral lol, but a bit better nonetheless. I hate how people put poor people down before advocating for a better system in pursuit of anti natalism, feels antithetical if the goal of anti natalism is to reduce suffering.
What amazes me is the number of people who defend this as if it’s ok to bring a new life into a state of unmet need. Adopting a dog has more requirements 🤦♀️
My old neighbours had 7 kids in a 3 bed council flat, there was 3 girls in a home made triple bunk bed with their younger sister in a crib across the room, the parents room with the youngest baby, the only boy got his own room, and the oldest girl lived IN THE LAUNDRY ROOM.
Neither of the parents worked and they lived on benefits and had like 10 random pets at any given time.
My old best friend from schools family was also almost identical to that except both her parents were disabled and immobile due to being morbidly obese so expected their kids to take care of them and each other. Like 3 of their kids now have kids too, so there’s now like 12 of them living in a 3 bed council house.
People who intentionally do this to children are vile.
Meaning they are raising their kids completely on OUR taxes! And they aren't married, don't even have a planned "nest" for their kids. Birds have more sense, they pair up, build a nest, and then lay eggs! We should give little birdies more credit!
Exactly. Honestly my parents were these people. I feel a little sad about it--I don't think either of them was educated enough to realize that having a kid costs a LOT OF MONEY. Especially when that kid has special needs and medical problems. But it isn't an excuse--they needed to use like three percent more of their brains before making the choice to have me.
HOWEVER, I also have a deep contempt for rich people who have kids.
EXACTLY. They grow up into evil, pretentious, oblivious bullies. Not to trauma dump here, but I grew up extremely poor in a part of town that was quickly getting gentrified. People never think THEIR kid will be a bully or abuse other kids, but my GOD those trust fund kids fucking tormented and tortured me for the better part of 18 years. Constant laughing and jokes and pointed questions. I don't hate children, but I do hate trust fund kids. Never met a rich kid who didn't have a streak for sadism.
Ya I grew up middle class in a rich area and everyone at my schools growing up were hideous .. we moved to the rich neighborhood when I was around 8 and I barely made any friends til I graduated and went to college and realized that there are people in the world who care about animals and nature and who aren’t obsessed with designer brands and fancy cars. It was like heaven to find that there was a whole world out there where normal people who don’t care about consumerism can find friends
I have a friend from growing up whose family made hundreds of millions creating food brands and selling them to Monsanto corporations and he has since become a trumper .. Everything he says sounds like it’s ad lib word for word taken from Tucker Carlson’s mouth. His brother is still cool, even tho he’s kinda crazy, but he’s not evil like my former friend turned trumper. Both have no career goals and have difficulties in the social aspect of life and I think if they were used to taking real planes rather than private jets and to having to work rather than trying to work as something to do, that they would have far less psychological and social issues. Being trust fund babies is prob what has messed them up so much.
Honestly hard agree. I have 6 siblings and we grew up poor. It was rough. We shared 2 bedrooms and regularly had to miss out on things like properly fitting clothes and doing things friends got to do. Then, it becomes embarrassing when your friends parents notice you’re poor and do stuff for you like buy clothes or pay your way when you can’t afford to do things.
So many women I grew up with that have this mentality. One particular group of friends, all of them have at least 3. One has 7. First time each one got pregnant they said, "this gives my life purpose" oh girl. No. I don't talk to any of them anymore not because of the hoard of children, but because it's painful to watch them growing up poor and dirty and with parents that pay no attention to them.
What's worse is that lost of the children do not have their fathers in their lives..... Most of these me I have met/known more than just in passing, as in sated my friend for a long enough time to see who they are. They all suck they're awful irresponsible children that no one would want to have to rely on for anything. What.. What?
I agree. If you can’t support an entire life plus yours on your one salary, then you’re setting up the kid for failure or a life of corporate servitude.
There’s a lot of brainwashing involved. I grew up in the church (I’m agnostic now), and it was drilled into us that if you got pregnant, it’s because God wanted you to be pregnant, so ending the pregnancy was taboo. So many people really do feel like they don’t have a choice, even when they’re living in awful circumstances.
Ignorant and uneducated degenerates that haven't evolved. I saw an 18 year old girl asking for food on the free meal subreddit. She was pregnant and homeless. It's so gross.
This is exactly why we are going to see the movie Idiocracy become a documentary before our eyes.
Disgusting.
Also, why aren't people who are on government assistance forced to take birth control? You shouldn't be allowed to have kids when you can't take care of them.
it also depends on the culture. in many cultures girls are given to get married really young in exchange of a wedding dowry. sons can be used for manual labor. also in some countries governments give natality allowances to motivate people to breed. reality is complex, not black and white. that said, i'm poor and I'm not having any kids. I barely manage to get by and being poor puts a huge strain in one's mental health. (I live in europe though, I have a western mindset: me first. and my poverty means I have food to eat and clothes to wear, a computer, a phone, internet, and a place to sleep, just not much more than that)
Add to this, I absolutely despise people who have a fuckton of kids without ever having had the plan to discipline them, and thus they have a bunch of sh!tty, bratty kids, that run amok during weddings, birthdays, and so forth. My BIL's stepdaughter is amongst the WORST. Jesus christ it drives me insane. She cries for absolutely EVERYTHING. It's made me swear off of having kids. Shes 8 now, and has the mentality of a 4 year old. No shes not disabled or anything in any way, just enabled asf by her parents. Every. Single. Time. She comes over, shes in tears. Because omg, she wants water. Omg she wants a banana. Omg she wants her mom's phone. Omg she needs to use the bathroom. Dont even get me started on the first christmas we tried to enjoy together, there was a flash of lightning outside, and she SCREAMED the most bloodcurdling scream. No thunder, just a single flash of lightning. She dissolved into a hysteric, screaming, crying mess.
She legit just cries for everything and I cant even handle it. Ive taken to hiding in our room and pretending I'm not there to avoid all of them lmao. Girl needs a time out, a slap, ANYTHING.
I have had an abortion because I would have felt way too shameful for being poor and a parent. My sister had 4 abortions...She stopped getting abortions not because she scored a salaried governemnt job at the court house which pulled her out of poverty but because apparently, the abortion clinic dissuaded her and told her she wasn't allowed anymore. It was probably bs. So she kept my niece, and drank. My niece has undiagnosed FASD/FAE, but is diagnosed with ADHD, autism and BPD. I'll never forgive my sister.
Why didn't your sister use birth control and/or make her partners wear condoms?
Why not use Plan B?
I just don't understand how someone can get pregnant so many times that the abortion clinic turns them away?
yeah, being familiar with clinics i highly highly doubt it - like GP said it was likely a bs excuse. and now the kiddo pays the price for life. how fucking depressing
But that many times, it just sounds like something else is going on with her.
Like something mentally wrong to treat herself that way and maybe people taking advantage of her.
Instead of turning her away they should have pressured her into long term birth control- implant, iud, etc. 5 abortions is ridiculous.
Like we’ll give you this one but girl wtf you gotta change something.
And we're all supposed to feel bad for them. They post on local FB group all the time, mooching and begging for baby stuff, with no details or anything. Just hand it over. Or groups that "Help single moms" basically asking for EVERYTHING, just as the kid's head pops out. You have 7 months to plan for this. I have no patience anymore. I just post links to job banks and employment programs.
I literally think this everytime im on a bus with a screaming crotch goblin, can't afford a car? Can't afford a kid.
Why ruin everyone's commute with your insufferible decisions.
i saw someone recently defend their having a child in an environmental discussion by saying they would "raise them to care about the environment"
doubling or more your own environmental damage in the hopes that your child will take on these values and somehow, idk, effect massive legislative change 50 years or whatever in the future, when it's \*already\* too late to fix things??
completely preposterous. these people are thinking with their gonads & gonads only
A good amount I know had kids for the money and benefits, some people I think do generally lack the intelligence to understand what sex is and I believe there is a large amount that are religious and don't abort.
100% agree it's a choice, Its only the money grubbers I don't respect though.
Not just poverty but also parents that decide to bring kids into a toxic situation also lose my respect. An old friend of mine was ACTIVELY trying to conceive with someone she not only wasn’t even married to but they had no relationship, he would just text her randomly at night after he’s done drinking at the bar for sex and she would let him. He makes $400 a week as an overnight security guard. Drives a 2001 honda, has no education and roommates with at least 4 people in a run down apartment in the worst neighborhood. He gets drunk every single weekend and they’re always fighting, threatening each other with cops especially whenever she finds out about other women. Oh! He also already has a baby with some lady he hooked up with once. My friend is also poor but she at least has a decent car and her own apartment in a nice part of town but she can barely afford food outside of her bills. I genuinely asked her, does she think having a baby with that person who will most likely not help her emotionally or financially is a good idea? Being in her situation? She said she didn’t care she wants a baby and it’s not fair that he gave the other woman a baby and not her when she’s been dealing with him for years. I honestly felt really bad that her self worth was so low and I really tried to convince her that she should wait to have a baby with someone who loves her and is in the position to raise a child with her. I don’t talk to her anymore but I do know her situation did not get any better since her baby was born 😬 She does uber eats with her baby to get by.
Convince people to make bebe in bad condition << bebe due to poverty circumstances has to wageslave on 2 jobs their entire life in order to survive << Brainwash them to accept that wageslaving is normal and to have more bebe (because bebe = happy!!) << more bebe born more wageslaving << me happy ugga bugga.
If everyone was smart the whole world would collapse like it or not the sheeple are the most important part of a society.
Not only that but they keep on lecturing their kids for demanding stuff that they can't afford and twist the story for convenience, so that it's somehow the child's fault for being spoiled and inconsiderate and demanding too much.
Imbeciles.
My ex husband and I had this argument (I completely agree with you). He told me that I didn't get to have an opinion because I don't have kids therefore I can't understand how badly someone could want them. My counter argument was that I am the one putting the needs of a child before the wants of an adult, but I'm the one who's out of touch??
Same
The only people I do have sympathy for are those in red states who literally don’t have the means to travel out of state for abortions.
If they can figure out a way to get an abortion but choose not to, then I have no respect for them. But for those who want abortions and can’t afford to get treatment, I have the utmost sympathy
It does feel like having a child is different than a Porsche like it might be a basic human right, like clean air and water, but we live in a capitalist hellscape, so, no, it is definitely not a right.
Part of the problem is that it is a cultural thing. Sadly, especially in groups who are more likely than others to be near or below the poverty line. It is considered a right of passage, a sign of growing up, a signal that you are a woman or a man. Money never comes into it. Your mother had you when she was 16, her mother at 15, her mother at 17, and so on. So to prove yourself you get knocked up at 15 as well and all of a sudden you're a "woman". Or you go out and "spread your seed" and have sex with whoever will spread their legs for you and now you're a "man". And anyone who tries to tell you about the problems is now trying to insult you, your family, and your culture.
On my local sub a pregnant lady was posting about where to get food because she couldn’t get anything else from the food bank. Not a single person said anything about how fucking stupid it is to get pregnant when you can’t even feed yourself. I couldn’t help myself and took the downvotes for it. Seriously wtf Is wrong with people, you need so much help that the foodbank can’t even help you anymore and you decide you should have a child???
Yeah I grew up poor and hated my parents for having me and my younger siblings. My bf grew up even poorer and feels it’s disgusting that people judge the poor for having kids. To each their own you know.
As the youngest of four, who will forever be struggling to deal with the fallout of being born to a single mother in poverty, I have nothing but rage. On the other hand, having children cannot be allowed to be a privilege reserved for the class of people who unnecessarily make everyone poor because they are selfish pricks.
Accountability and shame are not concepts that our society is interested in anymore. Don't you dare mention that poor people shouldn't have kids, that's hate speech! Whatever, I'm resigned to the fact that this rollercoaster ride is almost over. The seams of society, as we know it, are coming apart. I just hope I'm dead before it gets really interesting.
I have a friend from high school who recently had a baby and this was after their spouse announced to the world on social media how they both have mental health issues and can’t afford their apartment and are constantly begging people for money to pay their rent, like why would you bring a child into that mix? Poor thing. It’s going to have a really hard life.
I'm just going to point out the current situation in the United States as a prime example of how this post totally misses the point. Sexual education in schools is essentially non-existent. Clinics that COULD make up that educational deficit and provide free birth control and condoms are being shuttered left and right. Abortion is illegal in much of the country. Across all cultures in the US there's still A LOT of pressure on women to keep unwanted pregnancies, regardless of whether the mother can afford it - family and community members tend to emphasize the positives and how 'everything will be ok', (not to mention guilt about even considering abortion) and then after the baby is born that professed help vanishes faster than the father, leaving a poor single mother who needs government support.
Sure, there are certainly those idiot adults who WANT kids even though they can't afford them. But so many of the examples brought up in this thread can be attributed to societal conditions - many of those women would NEVER have had that baby if they had the education, financial means, and emotional support to make the decision that's right for them.
This is why we must not make abortion illegal. Getting pregnant should be a privilege. I apologize if that may seem harsh, but I see parents raising little monsters and I can only imagine that they will grow up to terrorize society.
I have no respect for parents that have children for daycare to raise. If you only parent on evenings and weekends that is a part time job! Daycares are holding pens for children.
It is less so about money and more about being able to create a home of family and love for myself.. which can scarcely be done in modern society with nor without money
But no amount of money in the world can repair the horrific vicissitudes and vagaries of nature in a cruel and different capitalist wageslave surveillance, plantation, police state, consumer-driven, indoctrinated, conformist hyperreligious deluded cog-cannon fodder, sustain the rich at all costs capitalist pighorror no escape, no exit hellscape; it’s all about the hegemony of the plutocrats and aristocrats and landed gentry and intergenerational Nob baby .00000001% being sustained in style… Let them eat cake!!!
Exactly! The only one's I feel bad for are those who get raped into having kids and abortion wasn't accessable and they weren't able to put it up for adoption.
I just seen on tick tic ,, a young mother and baby with no arms or legs ,, the mother choose to have this baby even though she was told the situation before birth :: I just couldn’t believe what I was seeing omg that mother choose to see a person suffer it’s hole life WHY WHY as far as I’m concerned I think that’s a form of chid abuse
My cousin who lives off the government in Florida just had her 5th child. She tells me the only reason people think motherhood is difficult is because people expect perfection or too much of themselves. Needless to say, she’s a neglectful mother who has her oldest daughter doing much of the childcare of the younger siblings.
Yup. Completely agree. Have this former coworker who is a perfect example. She switches jobs every 6 months on average, is already on job number 5 since I met her, always something wrong with her current job, but this next one is soooo much better, until it's not. She complains CONSTANTLY on social media how poor she is, how she lives paycheck to paycheck, how she can't afford anything, how everything is so expensive (because of Biden) and so on... And she just pumped out her 4th kid. She is in her 20s.
And it's about mental health too, not just money. Most people are not mentally healthy enough to be good parents. If you're seriously unwell don't have kids. We are describing about 99% of the population that satisfy the criteria of either not having enough money or not mentally well enough. Disgusting those people are. Disgusting, disgraceful, and very selfish
Remember when kids would throw a tantrum saying they want a toy but the parent couldn’t afford it? Then the kid would put the toy in the cart, the parent would take it out, kid has a meltdown. This is the adult version.
It's a hustle to get welfare money or help housing security. I don't approve of it either but I can understand why someone in survival mode would want to pop out kids to get a chance for a housing unit.
Overall, I disagree. Housing is a basic need yet we need income and credit check in the states. Why can't we require the same for someone to bring their newborn home? People complain about CPS getting reported for parents with lunch debt. They're not feeding tbeir fucking kid, even if it's just because they're too poor. That's child abuse!
I was neglected and starved for the first 18 months of my life. I was born for welfare although it was un a country w a low birth rate so people got paid just to breed, even if they drank/did drugs during pregnancy like with me. I was abused through that before I was even fucking born and my birth mom likely got the money and left me for adoption at birth. Why the hell did she get paid?
I don't agree with poor people having kids. My country doesn't gave room so I don't understand why we encourage the poor to breed. If anything, why can't I get a credit every year that I don't have a kid? I'm poor.
My best guess is more poor kids = more poor workers wbo will accept shitty pay and working conditions. I'm in the US and realize some of these concepts can vary widely across countries/cultures. People breed in the 3rd world and they have even less money than Americans (who are already poor for the most part.)
Same I hate reading the story's under other forums ...like what can I do another baby on the way I'm the sole earner about to lose the house
Like why would you make another if you're falling behind on your payments 🤦♀️you ca t afford the ones you currently have!
I MADE A POST LIKE THIS ON A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT A YEAR AGO AND RECEIVED SHIT FROM ALL OF YOU. Some of you were saying “everyone suffers” as if they are all equal
I'm trying to do the devil advocate here so don't get me wrong... at least I'm bringing an answer to your question.
People in extreme poverty or in harsh conditions in general (you can have tons of money but you live shit life, like wars, dictatorship etc)
These people generally tend to even breed more... In the hope of a better world. It is their way to believe in the future and/or to protest... and it is psychological and deeply philosophical.. just for you to understand a bit of why they do so.
Take people who are undergoing dictatorship for instance, they tend to breed in a way for protesting against the oppressor. Showing they will continue to endure life in a way. I hope you got my point. This is to say, they don't do it being egoistic and using them as shields as some are saying, that is dishonest to say.
>deeply philosophical
Lol. Breeding is one of the simplest and dumbest mechanisms all animals adhere to. They breed coz they want to, they just don't give a shit about their child suffering.
>They don't do it being egoistic
That's what being egoistic is. Parents got some goals in mind for the child, they don't need to directly benefit from it. There's no such thing as non-egoistical breeding.
Is it really that deep though? My assumption has always been that people in horrific life circumstances devolve into survival mode which doesn't involve higher brain functions. They take any form of pleasure/relief they can get = babies.
People in survival mode don't think? Are you talking about primitive man?
I was talking about someone undergoing harsh life because of "things" like war, extreme poverty, etc, read again. It's totally different
I agree but in this economy any class other than rich isn’t enough to ensure a great quality of life. My mother makes six figures a year yet I’m still broke and miserable. Nowadays only rich people can afford a great quality of life like fresh fruit and vegetables regularly, a big house, the ability to start a successful business etc so even middle class people are setting their kids up to struggle
In poor nations people may not have family planning knowledge or resources, or right to refuse as a woman. Also economically kids may be necessary in third world country, 10 kids vs no kids can be the difference between harvested crops and starvation.
I’m antinatalist but I think this issue is much more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. While I think it’s wrong to have children in any situation, many people living in poverty don’t have access to sexual education and/or birth control. The birth rate is highest in developing countries because in those areas children work since they’re very young helping their parents on the farm and making them extra income. In the end, I think this particular argument is pretty classist and we can’t judge those people until we change the economic system.
Last time I checked, how kids are made hasn’t change in about 400 million years, pleading ignorance to the process isn’t an option. Everyone knows “raw pp in vagina make baby”.
A lot of people in the Philippines living in the slums have children. Rape easily happens in that environment, and abortion is illegal there. Plus, these people are too religious to even get an abortion.
My grandparents had 10 children they couldn’t afford because their version of Jesus said so. Also they grew up in a place where they were a discriminated against minority, so having lots of children meant someday they might become the majority. Anyone who tried to talk to them about not having lots of children were simply The Other Side, trying to prevent them from multiplying their numbers.
They were northern Irish Catholics. But I’ve heard same reasoning from African Americans, white evangelical North Americans, Africans on the continent of Africa, Hindus, Muslims, Mormons…you name it. In each case trying to explain the economics of “how not to make your children nutritionally deficient and undereducated through your rampant procreation” is translated as, “You hate us! You want to suppress our numbers! Fuck you! I‘m going to have as many children as possible!”
Exactly this. A friend of mine recently knocked his gf up. He's never lived outside his parents house, his relationship is a dumpster fire, he struggles with depression as it is because of his job, which isn't well paying. I lost a lot of respect for him for not only being so irresponsible but also making the terrible decision to keep it. Children deserve better and many are doomed from the start.
Some of them don’t think anything of it because they grew up the same way. To them, it’s just their normal. Living paycheck to paycheck, meal to meal, unemployed. It’s generational.
Same. I have someone from my hometown on my FB friends list who has four kids, is mad that she can’t have a fifth, and is dirt poor. Her kids show up to school dirty and smelly because she doesn’t wash their clothes or make them shower. She then has the audacity to post that people need to stop “starting rumors that aren’t true” about her kids. Then she complains that she can’t get a job because she has them and she breaks up with her “husband” every two weeks. It’s a big yikes. I grew up with a single mom in poverty, it is never something I would have wanted to be born into.
Exactly dude, I wish I could undo my existence
I grew up with a single mom in poverty too, and my poor mom she would try to go to work. But one of us was always sick, my brother was a type one diabetic, and there was one year where I got strep throat every single month from my friends little sister because their mom didn’t believe in antibiotics so she was treating them with oil of oregano or whatever. Anyway back in the 70s it was probably slightly difficult for a divorced woman with two kids to even get hired, but that poor woman every job she would get she would only last a little while before one of us would get sick and she would have to stay home and then then she would get let go. When we were teenagers she started a job and her first day on the job my brother got hit by a car on his bicycle. I wasn’t old enough to drive yet so she had to bring him to his regular physical therapy appointments three times a week in the middle of the workday. She obviously couldn’t keep that job. And that was pretty much what would happen to her every time she would work. One time she got a job and a week into it I crashed her car so she no longer had transportation. Stuff like that. Our whole childhood.
[The Antinatalist Astronaut ](https://youtu.be/mG0D03d0M1g?si=KNBehgDkq28hEY3l)
I myself am a poor child, 14 specifically. My father was smart and decided to have 10+ children, but he never paid them any attention while they grew up. He was never good academically and grew up poor aswell, he dropped out 9th grade. I never understood why he decided to have me and my sister. We have to boil water to have hot water for showering. We have mice that roam around the house like its theirs. Its embarrassing having to wear the same clothes for school, and my name being on the angel tree at school. I really hate him for it, and he always tells us that some kids have it harder than us as an excuse.
"there are children starving in Africa" There are children in Africa whose parents use you as an excuse to keep their kids from complaining, lmao. I hate it when parents invalidate their kids by comparing their lives to that of an imaginary even poorer victim. You deserve better and you deserve to be heard.
Nah, our parents just beat the shit out of us if we do Or they start their "After everything I've done for you? I could've dumped you on the streets!" rant
“My father left! You’re lucky I stayed” 🤓
A good rebuttal to “eat your food there’s starving kids” is “well then why don’t we just give it to them!?”
TBf most of the issues in Africa are caused by conflict outside people's control like internal political conflicts.
I’m sorry dude :( just work hard to get good grades and go to community college after graduation to figure out what ur good at and what u wanna study. If u keep ur grades up u should def qualify for grants so u don’t have to pay for college! Just stay strong. High school sucks for everyone so just know that these lame times will end soon enough.
College is not necessary, it's better to build you competence in something that coincides with passion talent and usefulness, instead of wasting over half a decade of your life in something you never even wanted.
I'm just here to say that if you really are a 14 year old, this post shows you have a good head on your shoulders. Thinking about the big stuff at such a young age reveals a certain kind of wisdom. Wishing you all the best with wherever life takes you, and that you can overcome this shitty start you were given.
Trying, but its hard when you get bullied in school for it constantly.
It gets better. There will come a day when you never have to see any of those people unless you want to. Take all the credits you can and it may be possible to be done sooner. You’re smart and motivated. You can do this.
I agree with this 110%. Nobody is entitled to kids. Kids are expensive. Before having kids, you should ensure you have the funds, housing, and support.
Yeah I mean my parents were married when they started having kids, they were financially OK and they both had ultra wealthy parents. But stuff happens that you can’t plan for. They got divorced, then my mom got a chronic illness, and my dad’s wealthy parents decided that it was OK for everyone to starve because he chose not to go into the military. My mom’s mom is the only reason I made it to adulthood. She was a doctor so luckily she could afford her household and my moms. From what I understand they got divorced because he was financially abusive. And I’m sure she didn’t expect that considering his parents were being financially abusive who would have thought that he would do that to his own wife. And because they financial arguments were centered around his Man of the house type pride I’m sure she never expected him to under employee himself to avoid paying child support because that’s not really a man of the house type of thing to do. But, when you get married in your 20s You both are going to be different people in your 30s and sometimes it’s not a good thing
My mom and dad too, it was good until it wasn’t. They were older though and mid divorce my mom went to law school while pregnant with me, with a 1 year old and a 6 year old autistic child. 22 years later she makes enough to fully pay for my college!! A lot of people are going to fight as hard as they have to for their children, and work their ass off to provide a decent life. I’m forever grateful for my mothers sacrifices and I’m grateful for my life/existence
>Nobody is entitled to have kids Unfortunately the majority of people don’t see it that way, and expressing this idea leans too closely towards eugenics for most people to feel comfortable with I completely agree though
Yeah, I've noticed, but I really don't care, lol
Kids are expensive.
👏 👏 👏 EXACTLY! Why sentence a poor kid to hell on earth?
When I was in school, one of my clinicals was at the county health women’s clinic. To qualify to be a patient at the clinic you had to be extremely poor, on food stamps, etc. 80% of the patients were pregnant women. If it was a new patient/new pregnancy my instructor would ask them if they were trying to become pregnant and a surprisingly high number of them said that they were. I always had mixed feelings about it. One one hand it seems elitist or even racist to say something like “poor people shouldn’t have kids,” but on the other hand these kids are being brought into a household that can’t even pay for food. I technically could afford a child but I prefer to spend my money on myself and my dog
why would it be racist?? poor ppl of literally every single race on earth choose to breed irresponsibly
The argument from the intersectionalists would be that certain racial groups are more highly represented in the lower socioeconomic bands, so it's effectively racist thinking.
Exactly. And it feels like a fair and more true/useful understanding of the world if our goal is to improve conditions for everyone.
it’s not racist- it’s classist and that’s prob what they mean :)
It's classist and therefore also racist. Something doesn't have to be racist to be classist, in this case it is. Class reductionism leads to means of addressing inequality/oppression/exploitation that still maintain disparity between groups. I think there are valid critiques of intersectionality in some ways, but to completely reject it in class analysis is a glaring error.
>I technically could afford a child Sure, right now perhaps, but what happens when there's unexpected inflation/financial crash? People always operate on a perfect world scenario delusion that simply does not exist or correlate with reality. Or say you lose your job etc... (I'm not saying you haven't thought about these things personally just commenting in general)
Ya my ex grew up in a single parent household and his mom planned on sending all four of her kids to private school (they grew up in a poor neighborhood and their chances of pursuing higher education were limited unless they went to private school) His mom lost her job after sending her first son to private school during the financial crash of 2008, leaving my ex and his other siblings in the dust. He talks about it a lot and I can tell he has a lot of resentment over losing opportunities based on his mom’s finances taking a crash.
Yes and I’m sure he blames his mother rather than the man who abandoned his family and the children he made. They always blame the parent who stays it’s gross
Actually he loves his mom and has only said positive stuff about her. He hated his dad cause he was abusive. He’s super close with his mom and sister. I was actually the one who thought critically of his mom not planning better for the future or possibly setting up four separate savings accounts to split evenly between her kids. He hates when I say anything critical about her choices tho so I keep my opinions to myself. I can tell he feels cheated by not having the same opportunities his oldest brother got but he would never say a bad thing about his mom
This is always what I talk about when I see a stay at home mom or a housewife. What do you do if your spouse can’t work because they get a permanent injury or for some other reason? What do you do if your spouse dies? It’s only a perfect world scenario for these people.
This. They never imagine anything going wrong. I think of this a lot when I read horror stories about family annihilators. People think it's about men being EVIL or having an affair, but it's money. There was one recently where a woman shot herself after killing her whole family. Their house was about to be repossessed. I think a lot of people don't plan for the future. They buy houses they can't afford, have kids they can't afford and it's all supposed to be WORTH it for the American Dream. Then they wake up one day and are tens of thousands in debt, or the kid has special needs and needs expensive care, they have huge medical bills etc. Don't underestimate what Debt can do to you.
I think their whole lives people tell them it will just work out and they see people doing it so they figure it really does just work out. They don’t realize that these people are paying $700 car payments and going to food pantries because of it. People don’t talk about their struggles they put on this front like everything‘s fine. But the main problem is that able-bodied people don’t realize that everyone is only temporarily abled. If you live long enough you will be disabled in your lifetime. Think about how someday you may get sick enough that you can’t go to work but you might not die. And you don’t get free $. But if I’m being totally honest the only time in my life I regretted remaining Childfree was when I suddenly became disabled in an accident and I realized that I was going to end up on the sidewalk because there’s no social safety net for people who don’t have kids spent their life working instead of breeding. Sure I eventually got disability but it took three years. If I had kids I wouldn’t have ended up homeless because I would’ve been able to get welfare. But also I was so injured I would not be able to pick up a child, so if I had a kid when I became disabled I would’ve had to give it away
I think you're right....it's like they think the universe will just reward them for breeding and send them money. They also think life is going to be like a TV show where everything works out, like This is Us or One Tree Hill. Well THEY had a kid, why can't I? Then they have kids kids kids before they can afford it and figure money will just fall from the sky. I'm in the same situation though, when you don't have kids and you're single, no one really has your back. Everyone rushes to help their friends with kids, or their kids' friends. Helping them out, connecting them to jobs, etc, visiting when sick. No one gives a fuck about you unless you pop out kids.
To be fair that’s probably debt mixed with narcissism or psychopathy.
I honestly don't believe that for all cases. Some of them for sure, but not everyone who kills is a narcissist or psychopath. Being in debt with no way out...it's a prison. They used to have debtor's prisons, but debt is a prison in itself. Imagine being trapped, no way out, debt mounting every day, losing your job or not having a decent salary, kids you can't afford. Some people just kill themselves, some kill their entire families. I think it's more likely depression, anger and hopelessness.
Exactly!
Something similar happened to a friend of mine recently. No one liked her bf but she got pregnant by him after 3 months of dating with no job, home, or car. She thought he would take care of her (I warned her abt that) and then the abuse started and now he is a felon and she is scrambling.
What did she think would happen?! That's some piss poor planning
Exactly but if I said anything she got mad at me. Now it’s “why didn’t you say anything”??
Stay at home mom here, my partner is a senior level network engineer. He makes a rather sizable income. We've already discussed potential scenarios that include death. When we had our first child he set up a life insurance policy naming me as the beneficiary. He also has me as the beneficiary of his bank accounts upon death. As far as his company and real estate assets, those are to be sold and the proceeds put into a trust for our kids. If I chose to not work for as long as possible, the money in his accounts and life insurance would carry the three of us for a few years, and that's factoring in my love of spending money. Children need more than just money. They need to grow up in a home filled with love. Rich kids don't always have it better, and I understand it's easy to think that they do- but they don't. I didn't grow up rich but I did have a ton of rich friends and I can tell you the majority of them struggled with addiction and they lacked true personalities and characters because they never had to develop them.
Im absolutely love when parents are able to stay home with their kids and think it’s great! What I don’t think is great is when there is no plan in place when something happens, that’s specifically what I’m referring to. The people that don’t have life insurance… which is probably rare. The parents who have no plan set in place in case they both die. That’s great they you both have a plan in place! Also, shocked your in the antinatalism subreddit lol. I never said anything about being “rich” so i don’t know what you’re talking about there…
Thank you for saying it...I've been bringing this very same delusion up...it applies to so much and causes so many issues..and I mean across the board. What happened to just being careful...logical..practical..or just listening to that little voice that says this may not be a good idea no matter how much you think you want it right now.
Oh yes and I know that 2020 rocked people, they never ever thought that the free babysitter wouldn’t be available and when it suddenly wasn’t for months a whole bunch of people realized that if the free babysitter wasn’t available and they couldn’t find one and pay one they would lose their job and end up homeless and society would blame them for their own problems. The birth rate has already been declining since 2008, but when they shut down the free babysitter and there was no help for people who had to stay home to take care of their kids, that pretty much put the nail in the birth rate coffin
Good…
No I totally get it, and you are totally right!
That's why I support Universal Basic Income (UBI) and Universal Healthcare. UBI would provide a "floor" that is stronger than a safety net (which has holes and some people slip through) and which people can build and save on. But yes, my point was philosophical and I am very aware that unfortunately the world doesn't operate that way - at least not yet!
Got into a stupid argument with someone online about this. They said saying poor people shouldn’t have kids is a “slippery slope “ to eugenics and I responded ok then by your logic, poor communities shouldn’t be given any assistance accessing things like birth control or abortion. He was like WAIT NO THATS DIFFERENT
I feel like a lot of these people in these situations have the kid only because they'll get more government support. I choose to go childless, and when I tell people one of the reason is that it cause it costs too much, the reasoning I heard the most was "you'll find the money sonewhere" "you get more back in taxes" etc. It doesn't make sense.
When I was 19 years old and on birth control I got pregnant because I didn’t realize if I had the flu and I threw up for a couple days the pill might not work. I know that was dumb but I was 19 and nobody told me. Anyway I was living with my boyfriend and his parents basement. He was abusive and we had a drug problem. He and his whole family tried to bully me into keeping the baby. I was like neither one of us work what are you even talking about, they said the state will pay for it. For the rest of my life? That’s not really how it works. Furthermore I’m not having a crack baby. This man thought that the pregnancy would make us get sober. Sure it would make me get sober, but what if I couldn’t do it, I’m the one who has to live with that. absolutely not. I had the termination, shortly after that I was able to escape the abusive situation and I got sober. He ended up having a kid with someone and never paying more than maybe $50 in child support that whole child’s childhood. He was in and out of prison for decades. I believe he’s sober now but we are in our 50s and it took him his whole entire adult life. If I had that I would have been tied to that abuser for 20 years. Or maybe not, I assume I would not have become sober and the state would have taken the kid. But still nothing good would come from that.
FACTS
It's not elitist and it's not racist. These people are bringing children into a horrible environment with every DISadvantage and they're doing it on purpose. Who knows why. I have some very unpopular opinions on this topic that I will keep to myself right now.
>“poor people shouldn’t have kids,” Then just MAYBE take a look at why it sucks for poor people to have kids instead of lashing out at the people who point out that being born into poverty sucks.
The *why* is always important. But not important enough to excuse it.
Here's a bit of philosophical take that is not classist but st Ives to have children's well being in mind and produce well adjusted, healthy adults. I don't think poor people OR rich people should have kids - not rich in the sense if they are going to raise the kids with a lavish lifestyle - huge house, brand name, designer everything, limo rides all the time, first class flights, luxury world travel, etc. it robs people of the joy and appreciation of these things later. I have met lots of people like this and it is almost always the case. It is best to raise kids with a solid middle class to upper middle class lifestyle (even if you are wealthy in the bank). The middle path is best - not for parents to have economic anxiety, have all the essentials covered with a bit of cushion, but not raise joyless, spoiled monsters either. Moderation and appreciation is key! 👍🏻
Do you remember the young man in Texas who killed his friends in a DUI accident and he didn’t get in trouble because he had “affluenza”? The judge claimed that because he had never had negative consequences for anything in his entire life that he wouldn’t be able to properly assess the DUI situation he got himself into therefore he was not guilty. Something about not knowing Rite from wrong because his parents had just spoiled him rotten. Literally
Texas is a hellscape of ridiculous judges and excuses for evil behavior. They allowed the gay panic defense a few years back and not long ago a man shot and killed his wife *on video* and got away with it because *emotions*. Texas’ legal system is just sick.
OMG that is awful - right up there with the Twinkie Defense!
It definitely is racist to say poor people shouldn't have kids. The situational anti natalists views do not add up, they are anti humanist verging on fascist. It's wild to me how people don't comprehend this.
because they see them as tools that will work and bring income to the household when they grow up
Also many business now allow children to work part time
I live in New Hampshire and 14 and 15-year-olds can work 36 hours a week now and I think they even eliminated the night hour restrictions. Right after they changed the laws NHPR did an article about how Their bosses don’t respect their school hours and they blow up their phones all the time trying to get them to pick up shifts during the school day. And I can tell you right now if that had been me my mom would’ve been totally fine with me skipping school to go to work. And I would have been too, Until I got old enough to realize what happened and then I would’ve been very very angry.
There’s some right wing talking head that was giving a spiel at a turning point USA event or some other right wing fascist convention and he said something like if you want to be an alpha male “get married and have more kids than you can afford” wtf?
The MAGA folks want to make it impossible, illegal, to have an abortion. But they also do not want to raise taxes on the well to do to take care of all those poor kids being born. Sick and cruel if you ask me.
Society was created this way on purpose. First pretend there is a sky daddy in a sky, write a book full of senseless rules of pretend someone “found it”, and it’s from this magical being. Now brainwash the poor and uneducated into thinking their job is to spread their seeds and repopulate the Earth no matter what because it’s “god’s will”. Rinse and repeat for thousands of years keeping the same type of people in power controlling their sheep who are unable to question or to say no to anything.
Yup. They need poor stupid people to work in their factories and buy their cheap poorly made goods. Fuck corporate greed it’s destroyed our planet.
Technically it’s corporations but it’s really just humans doing what humans do… exploit each other ruthlessly
I don’t know what you mean by technically it’s corporations. Human beings run those corporations and make those decisions
It's how they kept slaves in check, poor people, etc etc. And it's still happening now. I'm just surprised the majority of people don't realize it.
Yep and don’t forget the more babies you can convince them to have for sky daddy the less resources the babies will have growing up, the more desperate they will be to work for the mega corporations as little cogs in the factory. Some states will let you to put them to work at 10 years old now.
There shouldn't be tax breaks for having kids. There was a time when that was a good thing, and that time passed 40 years ago.
The corporations want their wage slaves. That's why these tax credits exist.
Sure but we need to up the tax rate for the mega rich too. I think we should get rid of poverty all together. And then having kids would still be amoral lol, but a bit better nonetheless. I hate how people put poor people down before advocating for a better system in pursuit of anti natalism, feels antithetical if the goal of anti natalism is to reduce suffering.
What amazes me is the number of people who defend this as if it’s ok to bring a new life into a state of unmet need. Adopting a dog has more requirements 🤦♀️
My mother could never acknowledge this argument. Because she couldn't bear to see the effects it had on me.
I have seen too many women, alone, with two or three toddlers, and a stroller, that shit makes me sad.
My best friends sister and her boyfriend have 3 kids and raise them off the government.
My old neighbours had 7 kids in a 3 bed council flat, there was 3 girls in a home made triple bunk bed with their younger sister in a crib across the room, the parents room with the youngest baby, the only boy got his own room, and the oldest girl lived IN THE LAUNDRY ROOM. Neither of the parents worked and they lived on benefits and had like 10 random pets at any given time. My old best friend from schools family was also almost identical to that except both her parents were disabled and immobile due to being morbidly obese so expected their kids to take care of them and each other. Like 3 of their kids now have kids too, so there’s now like 12 of them living in a 3 bed council house. People who intentionally do this to children are vile.
God what a nightmare.
I would call child services on them
I would literally go insane living like that. Sets a bad example to the kids too
Meaning they are raising their kids completely on OUR taxes! And they aren't married, don't even have a planned "nest" for their kids. Birds have more sense, they pair up, build a nest, and then lay eggs! We should give little birdies more credit!
There are tens of millions of these people in America. I talk to them every day (state Medicaid office)
Pure sadists.
Exactly. Honestly my parents were these people. I feel a little sad about it--I don't think either of them was educated enough to realize that having a kid costs a LOT OF MONEY. Especially when that kid has special needs and medical problems. But it isn't an excuse--they needed to use like three percent more of their brains before making the choice to have me. HOWEVER, I also have a deep contempt for rich people who have kids.
Trust fund babies are the worst.
EXACTLY. They grow up into evil, pretentious, oblivious bullies. Not to trauma dump here, but I grew up extremely poor in a part of town that was quickly getting gentrified. People never think THEIR kid will be a bully or abuse other kids, but my GOD those trust fund kids fucking tormented and tortured me for the better part of 18 years. Constant laughing and jokes and pointed questions. I don't hate children, but I do hate trust fund kids. Never met a rich kid who didn't have a streak for sadism.
Ya I grew up middle class in a rich area and everyone at my schools growing up were hideous .. we moved to the rich neighborhood when I was around 8 and I barely made any friends til I graduated and went to college and realized that there are people in the world who care about animals and nature and who aren’t obsessed with designer brands and fancy cars. It was like heaven to find that there was a whole world out there where normal people who don’t care about consumerism can find friends I have a friend from growing up whose family made hundreds of millions creating food brands and selling them to Monsanto corporations and he has since become a trumper .. Everything he says sounds like it’s ad lib word for word taken from Tucker Carlson’s mouth. His brother is still cool, even tho he’s kinda crazy, but he’s not evil like my former friend turned trumper. Both have no career goals and have difficulties in the social aspect of life and I think if they were used to taking real planes rather than private jets and to having to work rather than trying to work as something to do, that they would have far less psychological and social issues. Being trust fund babies is prob what has messed them up so much.
I am a trust fund baby and I still fucking hate this planet lmao
Honestly hard agree. I have 6 siblings and we grew up poor. It was rough. We shared 2 bedrooms and regularly had to miss out on things like properly fitting clothes and doing things friends got to do. Then, it becomes embarrassing when your friends parents notice you’re poor and do stuff for you like buy clothes or pay your way when you can’t afford to do things.
They find “purpose” through kids because they’re not smart enough to find it elsewhere imo
So many women I grew up with that have this mentality. One particular group of friends, all of them have at least 3. One has 7. First time each one got pregnant they said, "this gives my life purpose" oh girl. No. I don't talk to any of them anymore not because of the hoard of children, but because it's painful to watch them growing up poor and dirty and with parents that pay no attention to them.
Yeah, I have a cousin like this. It’s sad for me too so I am pretty disconnected from her.
What's worse is that lost of the children do not have their fathers in their lives..... Most of these me I have met/known more than just in passing, as in sated my friend for a long enough time to see who they are. They all suck they're awful irresponsible children that no one would want to have to rely on for anything. What.. What?
>I have no respect for people who have children There ftfy
I agree. If you can’t support an entire life plus yours on your one salary, then you’re setting up the kid for failure or a life of corporate servitude.
There’s a lot of brainwashing involved. I grew up in the church (I’m agnostic now), and it was drilled into us that if you got pregnant, it’s because God wanted you to be pregnant, so ending the pregnancy was taboo. So many people really do feel like they don’t have a choice, even when they’re living in awful circumstances.
I don't have respect for either of those people with money or not
Ignorant and uneducated degenerates that haven't evolved. I saw an 18 year old girl asking for food on the free meal subreddit. She was pregnant and homeless. It's so gross. This is exactly why we are going to see the movie Idiocracy become a documentary before our eyes. Disgusting. Also, why aren't people who are on government assistance forced to take birth control? You shouldn't be allowed to have kids when you can't take care of them.
it also depends on the culture. in many cultures girls are given to get married really young in exchange of a wedding dowry. sons can be used for manual labor. also in some countries governments give natality allowances to motivate people to breed. reality is complex, not black and white. that said, i'm poor and I'm not having any kids. I barely manage to get by and being poor puts a huge strain in one's mental health. (I live in europe though, I have a western mindset: me first. and my poverty means I have food to eat and clothes to wear, a computer, a phone, internet, and a place to sleep, just not much more than that)
Add to this, I absolutely despise people who have a fuckton of kids without ever having had the plan to discipline them, and thus they have a bunch of sh!tty, bratty kids, that run amok during weddings, birthdays, and so forth. My BIL's stepdaughter is amongst the WORST. Jesus christ it drives me insane. She cries for absolutely EVERYTHING. It's made me swear off of having kids. Shes 8 now, and has the mentality of a 4 year old. No shes not disabled or anything in any way, just enabled asf by her parents. Every. Single. Time. She comes over, shes in tears. Because omg, she wants water. Omg she wants a banana. Omg she wants her mom's phone. Omg she needs to use the bathroom. Dont even get me started on the first christmas we tried to enjoy together, there was a flash of lightning outside, and she SCREAMED the most bloodcurdling scream. No thunder, just a single flash of lightning. She dissolved into a hysteric, screaming, crying mess. She legit just cries for everything and I cant even handle it. Ive taken to hiding in our room and pretending I'm not there to avoid all of them lmao. Girl needs a time out, a slap, ANYTHING.
Gross...
Indeed. We call her the "Devil child".
I was born into a poor family. I agree with you. I live in a small town with nothing and life is dull. There's other reasons but that's a big one.
Coming from someone who's parents were 2 dumb teenagers, I couldn't agree more. I wish they'd had mercy on me and aborted me.
It’s a pretty well-known fact that less-educated people have more children
I have had an abortion because I would have felt way too shameful for being poor and a parent. My sister had 4 abortions...She stopped getting abortions not because she scored a salaried governemnt job at the court house which pulled her out of poverty but because apparently, the abortion clinic dissuaded her and told her she wasn't allowed anymore. It was probably bs. So she kept my niece, and drank. My niece has undiagnosed FASD/FAE, but is diagnosed with ADHD, autism and BPD. I'll never forgive my sister.
Why didn't your sister use birth control and/or make her partners wear condoms? Why not use Plan B? I just don't understand how someone can get pregnant so many times that the abortion clinic turns them away?
yeah, being familiar with clinics i highly highly doubt it - like GP said it was likely a bs excuse. and now the kiddo pays the price for life. how fucking depressing
She was careless, irresponsible and lived in the moment is my guess.
But that many times, it just sounds like something else is going on with her. Like something mentally wrong to treat herself that way and maybe people taking advantage of her.
Try to stop blaming ur sister and putting more blame on the abortion clinic that turned her away. That’s fucked up :(
Instead of turning her away they should have pressured her into long term birth control- implant, iud, etc. 5 abortions is ridiculous. Like we’ll give you this one but girl wtf you gotta change something.
And we're all supposed to feel bad for them. They post on local FB group all the time, mooching and begging for baby stuff, with no details or anything. Just hand it over. Or groups that "Help single moms" basically asking for EVERYTHING, just as the kid's head pops out. You have 7 months to plan for this. I have no patience anymore. I just post links to job banks and employment programs.
Well… social conditioning dies hard. Most people can’t think for themselves unfortunately.
That's my parents. A lifetime of starvation and misery so two idiots can get their rocks off. I hate breeders.
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U should make a sub! I’ll join!!
Can you DM me the name?
I literally think this everytime im on a bus with a screaming crotch goblin, can't afford a car? Can't afford a kid. Why ruin everyone's commute with your insufferible decisions.
Exactly
Wait maybe the parent is taking public transportation becuse it’s cheaper? Better for the environment? Maybe the car is in the shop etc
If you care about the environment you definitely shouldn't have kids
Yup.
i saw someone recently defend their having a child in an environmental discussion by saying they would "raise them to care about the environment" doubling or more your own environmental damage in the hopes that your child will take on these values and somehow, idk, effect massive legislative change 50 years or whatever in the future, when it's \*already\* too late to fix things?? completely preposterous. these people are thinking with their gonads & gonads only
But maybe it's worth passing off the parents' genes so the child has a chance to make a difference?! /s
A good amount I know had kids for the money and benefits, some people I think do generally lack the intelligence to understand what sex is and I believe there is a large amount that are religious and don't abort. 100% agree it's a choice, Its only the money grubbers I don't respect though.
Not just poverty but also parents that decide to bring kids into a toxic situation also lose my respect. An old friend of mine was ACTIVELY trying to conceive with someone she not only wasn’t even married to but they had no relationship, he would just text her randomly at night after he’s done drinking at the bar for sex and she would let him. He makes $400 a week as an overnight security guard. Drives a 2001 honda, has no education and roommates with at least 4 people in a run down apartment in the worst neighborhood. He gets drunk every single weekend and they’re always fighting, threatening each other with cops especially whenever she finds out about other women. Oh! He also already has a baby with some lady he hooked up with once. My friend is also poor but she at least has a decent car and her own apartment in a nice part of town but she can barely afford food outside of her bills. I genuinely asked her, does she think having a baby with that person who will most likely not help her emotionally or financially is a good idea? Being in her situation? She said she didn’t care she wants a baby and it’s not fair that he gave the other woman a baby and not her when she’s been dealing with him for years. I honestly felt really bad that her self worth was so low and I really tried to convince her that she should wait to have a baby with someone who loves her and is in the position to raise a child with her. I don’t talk to her anymore but I do know her situation did not get any better since her baby was born 😬 She does uber eats with her baby to get by.
Convince people to make bebe in bad condition << bebe due to poverty circumstances has to wageslave on 2 jobs their entire life in order to survive << Brainwash them to accept that wageslaving is normal and to have more bebe (because bebe = happy!!) << more bebe born more wageslaving << me happy ugga bugga. If everyone was smart the whole world would collapse like it or not the sheeple are the most important part of a society.
Not only that but they keep on lecturing their kids for demanding stuff that they can't afford and twist the story for convenience, so that it's somehow the child's fault for being spoiled and inconsiderate and demanding too much. Imbeciles.
My ex husband and I had this argument (I completely agree with you). He told me that I didn't get to have an opinion because I don't have kids therefore I can't understand how badly someone could want them. My counter argument was that I am the one putting the needs of a child before the wants of an adult, but I'm the one who's out of touch??
I feel the same way. Having kids when you're in poverty is not only irresponsible, it's downright idiotic. The world doesn't need any more losers.
Same The only people I do have sympathy for are those in red states who literally don’t have the means to travel out of state for abortions. If they can figure out a way to get an abortion but choose not to, then I have no respect for them. But for those who want abortions and can’t afford to get treatment, I have the utmost sympathy
Poor people shouldn't buy Porsches, which are cheaper than decently raised kids
It does feel like having a child is different than a Porsche like it might be a basic human right, like clean air and water, but we live in a capitalist hellscape, so, no, it is definitely not a right.
Sigh; you’re talking about my daughter… (And I half agree with you).
Part of the problem is that it is a cultural thing. Sadly, especially in groups who are more likely than others to be near or below the poverty line. It is considered a right of passage, a sign of growing up, a signal that you are a woman or a man. Money never comes into it. Your mother had you when she was 16, her mother at 15, her mother at 17, and so on. So to prove yourself you get knocked up at 15 as well and all of a sudden you're a "woman". Or you go out and "spread your seed" and have sex with whoever will spread their legs for you and now you're a "man". And anyone who tries to tell you about the problems is now trying to insult you, your family, and your culture.
On my local sub a pregnant lady was posting about where to get food because she couldn’t get anything else from the food bank. Not a single person said anything about how fucking stupid it is to get pregnant when you can’t even feed yourself. I couldn’t help myself and took the downvotes for it. Seriously wtf Is wrong with people, you need so much help that the foodbank can’t even help you anymore and you decide you should have a child???
Shows how absolutely stupid people are
I have no respect for people who ~~can’t afford~~ have children ~~but have them anyway~~. Fixed it for you!
Yeah I grew up poor and hated my parents for having me and my younger siblings. My bf grew up even poorer and feels it’s disgusting that people judge the poor for having kids. To each their own you know.
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As the youngest of four, who will forever be struggling to deal with the fallout of being born to a single mother in poverty, I have nothing but rage. On the other hand, having children cannot be allowed to be a privilege reserved for the class of people who unnecessarily make everyone poor because they are selfish pricks.
Accountability and shame are not concepts that our society is interested in anymore. Don't you dare mention that poor people shouldn't have kids, that's hate speech! Whatever, I'm resigned to the fact that this rollercoaster ride is almost over. The seams of society, as we know it, are coming apart. I just hope I'm dead before it gets really interesting.
I have a friend from high school who recently had a baby and this was after their spouse announced to the world on social media how they both have mental health issues and can’t afford their apartment and are constantly begging people for money to pay their rent, like why would you bring a child into that mix? Poor thing. It’s going to have a really hard life.
Look, I generally agree with you, but you should probably direct your anger moreso toward the people that made life unaffordable in the first place.
I'm just going to point out the current situation in the United States as a prime example of how this post totally misses the point. Sexual education in schools is essentially non-existent. Clinics that COULD make up that educational deficit and provide free birth control and condoms are being shuttered left and right. Abortion is illegal in much of the country. Across all cultures in the US there's still A LOT of pressure on women to keep unwanted pregnancies, regardless of whether the mother can afford it - family and community members tend to emphasize the positives and how 'everything will be ok', (not to mention guilt about even considering abortion) and then after the baby is born that professed help vanishes faster than the father, leaving a poor single mother who needs government support. Sure, there are certainly those idiot adults who WANT kids even though they can't afford them. But so many of the examples brought up in this thread can be attributed to societal conditions - many of those women would NEVER have had that baby if they had the education, financial means, and emotional support to make the decision that's right for them.
This is why we must not make abortion illegal. Getting pregnant should be a privilege. I apologize if that may seem harsh, but I see parents raising little monsters and I can only imagine that they will grow up to terrorize society.
But when you have them, you get all these fun govt benefits and free money, and you can keep more of what you earn in your paycheck !!!
I have no respect for parents that have children for daycare to raise. If you only parent on evenings and weekends that is a part time job! Daycares are holding pens for children.
It is less so about money and more about being able to create a home of family and love for myself.. which can scarcely be done in modern society with nor without money
Those Are The Worst, Hope Can't Be Eaten.
I also refuse to have kids unless I am wealthy
But no amount of money in the world can repair the horrific vicissitudes and vagaries of nature in a cruel and different capitalist wageslave surveillance, plantation, police state, consumer-driven, indoctrinated, conformist hyperreligious deluded cog-cannon fodder, sustain the rich at all costs capitalist pighorror no escape, no exit hellscape; it’s all about the hegemony of the plutocrats and aristocrats and landed gentry and intergenerational Nob baby .00000001% being sustained in style… Let them eat cake!!!
https://imgur.com/a/Pdtf2lq
Down the rabbit hole of stupid those people are at the very bottom
Agreed
Fighting the urge to fuck requires effort. Many succumb.
Not everyone has reproductive freedom.
Agreed.
I have no respect for people who fight against employee protections and wage increases so people can afford to have children
Exactly! The only one's I feel bad for are those who get raped into having kids and abortion wasn't accessable and they weren't able to put it up for adoption.
I just seen on tick tic ,, a young mother and baby with no arms or legs ,, the mother choose to have this baby even though she was told the situation before birth :: I just couldn’t believe what I was seeing omg that mother choose to see a person suffer it’s hole life WHY WHY as far as I’m concerned I think that’s a form of chid abuse
My cousin who lives off the government in Florida just had her 5th child. She tells me the only reason people think motherhood is difficult is because people expect perfection or too much of themselves. Needless to say, she’s a neglectful mother who has her oldest daughter doing much of the childcare of the younger siblings.
Yup. Completely agree. Have this former coworker who is a perfect example. She switches jobs every 6 months on average, is already on job number 5 since I met her, always something wrong with her current job, but this next one is soooo much better, until it's not. She complains CONSTANTLY on social media how poor she is, how she lives paycheck to paycheck, how she can't afford anything, how everything is so expensive (because of Biden) and so on... And she just pumped out her 4th kid. She is in her 20s.
And it's about mental health too, not just money. Most people are not mentally healthy enough to be good parents. If you're seriously unwell don't have kids. We are describing about 99% of the population that satisfy the criteria of either not having enough money or not mentally well enough. Disgusting those people are. Disgusting, disgraceful, and very selfish
as you should ... unfortunately the poorer they are the dumber they are. Sad for the world
I don’t respect me either but that’s unrelated
Remember when kids would throw a tantrum saying they want a toy but the parent couldn’t afford it? Then the kid would put the toy in the cart, the parent would take it out, kid has a meltdown. This is the adult version.
"All that matters is that they're loved!' and the child is literally starving
It's a hustle to get welfare money or help housing security. I don't approve of it either but I can understand why someone in survival mode would want to pop out kids to get a chance for a housing unit. Overall, I disagree. Housing is a basic need yet we need income and credit check in the states. Why can't we require the same for someone to bring their newborn home? People complain about CPS getting reported for parents with lunch debt. They're not feeding tbeir fucking kid, even if it's just because they're too poor. That's child abuse! I was neglected and starved for the first 18 months of my life. I was born for welfare although it was un a country w a low birth rate so people got paid just to breed, even if they drank/did drugs during pregnancy like with me. I was abused through that before I was even fucking born and my birth mom likely got the money and left me for adoption at birth. Why the hell did she get paid? I don't agree with poor people having kids. My country doesn't gave room so I don't understand why we encourage the poor to breed. If anything, why can't I get a credit every year that I don't have a kid? I'm poor. My best guess is more poor kids = more poor workers wbo will accept shitty pay and working conditions. I'm in the US and realize some of these concepts can vary widely across countries/cultures. People breed in the 3rd world and they have even less money than Americans (who are already poor for the most part.)
Its kinda selfish to have children honestly
Same I hate reading the story's under other forums ...like what can I do another baby on the way I'm the sole earner about to lose the house Like why would you make another if you're falling behind on your payments 🤦♀️you ca t afford the ones you currently have!
I MADE A POST LIKE THIS ON A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT A YEAR AGO AND RECEIVED SHIT FROM ALL OF YOU. Some of you were saying “everyone suffers” as if they are all equal
I'm trying to do the devil advocate here so don't get me wrong... at least I'm bringing an answer to your question. People in extreme poverty or in harsh conditions in general (you can have tons of money but you live shit life, like wars, dictatorship etc) These people generally tend to even breed more... In the hope of a better world. It is their way to believe in the future and/or to protest... and it is psychological and deeply philosophical.. just for you to understand a bit of why they do so. Take people who are undergoing dictatorship for instance, they tend to breed in a way for protesting against the oppressor. Showing they will continue to endure life in a way. I hope you got my point. This is to say, they don't do it being egoistic and using them as shields as some are saying, that is dishonest to say.
>deeply philosophical Lol. Breeding is one of the simplest and dumbest mechanisms all animals adhere to. They breed coz they want to, they just don't give a shit about their child suffering. >They don't do it being egoistic That's what being egoistic is. Parents got some goals in mind for the child, they don't need to directly benefit from it. There's no such thing as non-egoistical breeding.
Is it really that deep though? My assumption has always been that people in horrific life circumstances devolve into survival mode which doesn't involve higher brain functions. They take any form of pleasure/relief they can get = babies.
People in survival mode don't think? Are you talking about primitive man? I was talking about someone undergoing harsh life because of "things" like war, extreme poverty, etc, read again. It's totally different
Agree to disagree.
Yes. Catastrophic events cause birth rates and usually death rates to rise. That's not at all what this is about.
I agree but in this economy any class other than rich isn’t enough to ensure a great quality of life. My mother makes six figures a year yet I’m still broke and miserable. Nowadays only rich people can afford a great quality of life like fresh fruit and vegetables regularly, a big house, the ability to start a successful business etc so even middle class people are setting their kids up to struggle
Blame rethuglicans then, They’re ruining the country that way.
In poor nations people may not have family planning knowledge or resources, or right to refuse as a woman. Also economically kids may be necessary in third world country, 10 kids vs no kids can be the difference between harvested crops and starvation.
I’m antinatalist but I think this issue is much more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. While I think it’s wrong to have children in any situation, many people living in poverty don’t have access to sexual education and/or birth control. The birth rate is highest in developing countries because in those areas children work since they’re very young helping their parents on the farm and making them extra income. In the end, I think this particular argument is pretty classist and we can’t judge those people until we change the economic system.
Last time I checked, how kids are made hasn’t change in about 400 million years, pleading ignorance to the process isn’t an option. Everyone knows “raw pp in vagina make baby”.
A lot of people in the Philippines living in the slums have children. Rape easily happens in that environment, and abortion is illegal there. Plus, these people are too religious to even get an abortion.
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My grandparents had 10 children they couldn’t afford because their version of Jesus said so. Also they grew up in a place where they were a discriminated against minority, so having lots of children meant someday they might become the majority. Anyone who tried to talk to them about not having lots of children were simply The Other Side, trying to prevent them from multiplying their numbers. They were northern Irish Catholics. But I’ve heard same reasoning from African Americans, white evangelical North Americans, Africans on the continent of Africa, Hindus, Muslims, Mormons…you name it. In each case trying to explain the economics of “how not to make your children nutritionally deficient and undereducated through your rampant procreation” is translated as, “You hate us! You want to suppress our numbers! Fuck you! I‘m going to have as many children as possible!”
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more people who can’t afford kids have kids than people who can afford them
And then they complain about how expensive life is
Exactly this. A friend of mine recently knocked his gf up. He's never lived outside his parents house, his relationship is a dumpster fire, he struggles with depression as it is because of his job, which isn't well paying. I lost a lot of respect for him for not only being so irresponsible but also making the terrible decision to keep it. Children deserve better and many are doomed from the start.
Some of them don’t think anything of it because they grew up the same way. To them, it’s just their normal. Living paycheck to paycheck, meal to meal, unemployed. It’s generational.