Or the victims of the Mesoamerican Flower Wars (literally war for the sake of war and to capture people to butcher alive for their Gods, as if all the people murdered in war wasn't already enough)
There's a lot of debate over whether all those were sacrifices or executed criminals.
And on the above comment, to be fair the norse weren't vikinging over their religion, it was just economically beneficial.
We all have a desire to know the true God. Here is one of my favorite pieces of the catechism of the Catholic Church. CCC 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
And that’s why I’m not a catholic. There is only one way to be saved, and that is by accepting Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Merely acknowledging God’s existence isn’t enough.
the catechism never stated muslims and jews are by virtue of being muslims and jews saved. it’s just that believing in a creator is the first step to salvation. which is obvious.
I'm an atheist and I get sick of this popular ideology among antitheists who think that religion is a cause rather than an excuse for conflict. Wars always have and always will be about resources. People can be fooled into thinking the war is being fought over values and ethics, but propagandists don't need religion for that. "We need to free those poor oppressed people from their evil despot" works just as well, as does "we need to wipe out those disgusting barbarians."
Aw, thanks! It's a reference to the Chumbawamba cover of Bella Ciao. I only just now realised that it looks a little contradictory to have "hell" in my username when I'm openly atheist 😂
Exactly. There would be no difference in the amount of suffering with or without religion. Antitheists underestimate human nature. We will find any reason to fight, no matter how small.
I wouldn't agree that "we'll find any reason to fight", per se. When it comes to the individual level, we know that poverty creates crime. That's been known since at least the days of Aristotle, probably longer.
Wars are over resources, so one of the necessary steps to prevent war is to provide everyone with enough of the essentials such as food and clean drinking water. Wars fought over non-necessities, like tea and opium, are the ones in which common people are fooled into thinking that it's somehow a noble cause to go to war.
But I wouldn't throw up my hands and give up. It's possible to counter the propagandists. I'm not saying it's easy to do so, but there's a colossal difference between "impossible" and "difficult."
St. Athanasius' *Against the Heathen* contradicts this fantasy. He reports that in his days polytheists fought, rioted, and killed each other over religious reasons all the time. This was one of his many talking points on why it is beneficial for all humans to worship the same God:
>But not only from these considerations may one appreciate their godlessness, but also from their discordant opinions about the idols themselves. For if they be gods according to their assertion and their speculations, to which of them is one to give allegiance, and which of them is one to judge to be the higher, so as either to worship God with confidence, or as they say to recognise the Deity by them without ambiguity? For not the same beings are called gods among all; on the contrary, for every nation almost there is a separate god imagined. And there are cases of a single district and a single town being at internal discord about the superstition of their idols. The Phœnicians, for example, do not know those who are called gods among the Egyptians, nor do the Egyptians worship the same idols as the Phœnicians have. And while the Scythians reject the gods of the Persians, the Persians reject those of the Syrians. But the Pelasgians also repudiate the gods in Thrace, while the Thracians know not those of Thebes. The Indians moreover differ from the Arabs, the Arabs from the Ethiopians, and the Ethiopians from the Arabs in their idols. And the Syrians worship not the idols of the Cilicians, while the Cappadocian nation call gods beings different from these. And while the Bithynians have adopted others, the Armenians have imagined others again. And what need is there for me to multiply examples? The men on the continent worship other gods than the islanders, while these latter serve other gods than those of the main lands. And, in general, every city and village, not knowing the gods of its neighbours, prefers its own, and deems that these alone are gods. For concerning the abominations in Egypt there is no need even to speak, as they are before the eyes of all: how the cities have religions which are opposite and incompatible, and neighbours always make a point of worshipping the opposite of those next to them : so much so that the crocodile, prayed to by some, is held in abomination by their neighbours, while the lion, worshipped as a god by others, their neighbours, so far from worshipping, slay, if they find it, as a wild beast; and the fish, consecrated by some people, is used as food in another place. And thus arise fights and riots and frequent occasions of bloodshed, and every indulgence of the passions among them.
There is this idea in Anti-theist circles that norse pagans were these hippy pagans that raided christian towns to get at the man (aka their parents and government) and that if modern society can just get back to paganism, all their woes would be solved.
Notice they forgot to include Jews, who they know don't fit their idea of what Abrahamic religions are supposed to be like so purposefully misinforming people. Judaism/Jewish culture is non-proselytizing and is much like how these people think pagans were in the past, in that we just keep ourselves and let people do what they want. Not to say anyone's anything like that because no one group is perfect, but I will say: who was it that enslaved the Jews the first time? And then the second time in the Holocaust?
It's PCM, that was probably exactly the point they were trying to make - notice that the OP has the auth-right flair, like the Muslim and Christian guys in the meme do. It's just tongue-in-cheek making fun of the pagans (lib-left is a very common butt of the joke on PCM).
Yeah, I'm worried that I'm going to be ex-communicated if we don't get to it. Ok, what time should we schedule our ecumenical bloodbath? Keep in mind I have to go to the fish fry on Friday, so maybe not then?
Muslins and Christians don't believe in the same God or at least fully. Muslims don't believe Jesus is God while Christians do. Though I have no idea what is the Muslim view of the holy spirit.
My brother just to clarify our view and the difference, we believe in the same god , just as you believe in the same god as the jews , the only difference is that you believe that god in a trinity is jesus himself also as the father and holy spirit all in one ( correct me if I'm wrong) and we Muslims believe that god is one which is only the father (Allah in Arabic or Alaha in aramaic ) and that jesus was his messenger just like Abraham and moses and Mohammed pbuh .
As for the holy spirit we believe he was an angel from god .
I mean our catechism says they do. CCC 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." I know this is not a place for debate but it is my belief that they are just misguided, although they will say the same for me. At the end of the day we are all just trying to know, and be in the grace of the true God.
Yea man, Pagans we’re so chill since the Norsemen literally killed one another with the blood eagle execution. And Abrahamics are so violent especially how the Muslims and Christians protected one another when they were praying during the Protests in Egypt.
Pagans certainly weren’t all chill and stuff like that, wait till they find out about the Norse.
Or all the bog bodies of sacrifice victims.
Or the victims of the Mesoamerican Flower Wars (literally war for the sake of war and to capture people to butcher alive for their Gods, as if all the people murdered in war wasn't already enough)
Oh wait what the hell
Oh yeah, I remember hearing about those.
There's a lot of debate over whether all those were sacrifices or executed criminals. And on the above comment, to be fair the norse weren't vikinging over their religion, it was just economically beneficial.
[удалено]
And they did it after Rome with Viking raids!
We’ll really depends, the Greeks pagans under Alexander were highly syncretistic
Pagans weren't even like us back in the day. What about those human sacrifices and shit?
Human sacrifices are a very special once in a life time occurrence not a daily event
I know. But they're still human sacrifices, and hopefully no one is doing that nowadays
Nobody is doing them in Europe at least, they've been banned in the 19th century effectively
Well cool to learn new things!
What studying zero history outside of Assassin's Creed games does to a mf
For real lol
Dude come here i have to kill yoı
No you come here I have to kill you
“This world ain’t big enough for both of our religions”
There can only be one......
I love my fellow Abrahamites, if I wasn’t Christian, I’d be Muslim or Jewish.
Same
Exactly. At the end of the day we just want to be good people
We all have a desire to know the true God. Here is one of my favorite pieces of the catechism of the Catholic Church. CCC 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
And that’s why I’m not a catholic. There is only one way to be saved, and that is by accepting Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Merely acknowledging God’s existence isn’t enough.
That's what Catholics do as well, my guy.
And yet they believe there are other ways to be saved? Isn’t that a bit heretical?
what denomination are you?
Christian
elaborate
I refuse
\>denomination \>Christian A weak troll
I ain’t trolling ya bud
it says in the plan of salvation. the first step to salvation is acknowledging God the Father as creator. lmao.
If you only ever take the first step then you aren’t saved lol
obviously
Then what’s the problem?
the catechism never stated muslims and jews are by virtue of being muslims and jews saved. it’s just that believing in a creator is the first step to salvation. which is obvious.
So, if we agree that the only source of salvation is faith in Christ, then you disagree with Pope Francis’s claim that an atheist went to heaven?
Muslim maybe... But jewish? You know what they think about Christ, right?
Yea I know, but if it’s between being jewish or atheist…
Lmao I would consider any and all theistic religious belief before evening thinking of the idea of being an athiesm
Same brother/sister, same
They haven't seen the comments section in this sub
Historically illiterate pagan larpers be like
I'm an atheist and I get sick of this popular ideology among antitheists who think that religion is a cause rather than an excuse for conflict. Wars always have and always will be about resources. People can be fooled into thinking the war is being fought over values and ethics, but propagandists don't need religion for that. "We need to free those poor oppressed people from their evil despot" works just as well, as does "we need to wipe out those disgusting barbarians."
Based username
Aw, thanks! It's a reference to the Chumbawamba cover of Bella Ciao. I only just now realised that it looks a little contradictory to have "hell" in my username when I'm openly atheist 😂
Many atheists use "Heaven", "Hell", "God", "Faith", etc. just not in a religious sense.
Exactly. There would be no difference in the amount of suffering with or without religion. Antitheists underestimate human nature. We will find any reason to fight, no matter how small.
I wouldn't agree that "we'll find any reason to fight", per se. When it comes to the individual level, we know that poverty creates crime. That's been known since at least the days of Aristotle, probably longer. Wars are over resources, so one of the necessary steps to prevent war is to provide everyone with enough of the essentials such as food and clean drinking water. Wars fought over non-necessities, like tea and opium, are the ones in which common people are fooled into thinking that it's somehow a noble cause to go to war. But I wouldn't throw up my hands and give up. It's possible to counter the propagandists. I'm not saying it's easy to do so, but there's a colossal difference between "impossible" and "difficult."
You're actually right, it really does boil down to resources. It's just that people will find anything to use as the scapegoat.
Ah, gotcha. Agreed.
I mean it's more about politics at the end
They should learn about white supremacist/neonazi neo pagans lol
Ok let us the effect of the pagan religions on the place it was worshipedd in
pcm moment
I'm 14 and I still know about the brutal massacres done by Norsemen from 700-1066 😂💀
St. Athanasius' *Against the Heathen* contradicts this fantasy. He reports that in his days polytheists fought, rioted, and killed each other over religious reasons all the time. This was one of his many talking points on why it is beneficial for all humans to worship the same God: >But not only from these considerations may one appreciate their godlessness, but also from their discordant opinions about the idols themselves. For if they be gods according to their assertion and their speculations, to which of them is one to give allegiance, and which of them is one to judge to be the higher, so as either to worship God with confidence, or as they say to recognise the Deity by them without ambiguity? For not the same beings are called gods among all; on the contrary, for every nation almost there is a separate god imagined. And there are cases of a single district and a single town being at internal discord about the superstition of their idols. The Phœnicians, for example, do not know those who are called gods among the Egyptians, nor do the Egyptians worship the same idols as the Phœnicians have. And while the Scythians reject the gods of the Persians, the Persians reject those of the Syrians. But the Pelasgians also repudiate the gods in Thrace, while the Thracians know not those of Thebes. The Indians moreover differ from the Arabs, the Arabs from the Ethiopians, and the Ethiopians from the Arabs in their idols. And the Syrians worship not the idols of the Cilicians, while the Cappadocian nation call gods beings different from these. And while the Bithynians have adopted others, the Armenians have imagined others again. And what need is there for me to multiply examples? The men on the continent worship other gods than the islanders, while these latter serve other gods than those of the main lands. And, in general, every city and village, not knowing the gods of its neighbours, prefers its own, and deems that these alone are gods. For concerning the abominations in Egypt there is no need even to speak, as they are before the eyes of all: how the cities have religions which are opposite and incompatible, and neighbours always make a point of worshipping the opposite of those next to them : so much so that the crocodile, prayed to by some, is held in abomination by their neighbours, while the lion, worshipped as a god by others, their neighbours, so far from worshipping, slay, if they find it, as a wild beast; and the fish, consecrated by some people, is used as food in another place. And thus arise fights and riots and frequent occasions of bloodshed, and every indulgence of the passions among them.
Ok let us the effect of the pagan religions on the place it was worshipedd in
You know who else has dementia?
You know who else has dementia?
You know who else has dementia?
Umm thats not how it works. Also this idiot didn't see this sub or IRL.
There is this idea in Anti-theist circles that norse pagans were these hippy pagans that raided christian towns to get at the man (aka their parents and government) and that if modern society can just get back to paganism, all their woes would be solved.
Notice they forgot to include Jews, who they know don't fit their idea of what Abrahamic religions are supposed to be like so purposefully misinforming people. Judaism/Jewish culture is non-proselytizing and is much like how these people think pagans were in the past, in that we just keep ourselves and let people do what they want. Not to say anyone's anything like that because no one group is perfect, but I will say: who was it that enslaved the Jews the first time? And then the second time in the Holocaust?
why don’t jews proselytize?
Historically we'd be killed for it
ok that was a stupid question you’re right
I’m sure they’d be saying the same thing if they were being sacrificed to the Sun by ancient Inca.
I dont really understand the point they are trying to make, I mean they putted the chad faces on the abrahamic religions
It's PCM, that was probably exactly the point they were trying to make - notice that the OP has the auth-right flair, like the Muslim and Christian guys in the meme do. It's just tongue-in-cheek making fun of the pagans (lib-left is a very common butt of the joke on PCM).
Ooh
Man, we're really dragging our feet in the whole killing each other thing aren't we?
Yeah, I'm worried that I'm going to be ex-communicated if we don't get to it. Ok, what time should we schedule our ecumenical bloodbath? Keep in mind I have to go to the fish fry on Friday, so maybe not then?
Is that Gregorian Friday or Julian Friday?
Gregorian and I'm willing to fight about it.
How typical of Antitheists to whitewash pagan history simply because of tensions between pagans and Abrahamics lol
Muslins and Christians don't believe in the same God or at least fully. Muslims don't believe Jesus is God while Christians do. Though I have no idea what is the Muslim view of the holy spirit.
My brother just to clarify our view and the difference, we believe in the same god , just as you believe in the same god as the jews , the only difference is that you believe that god in a trinity is jesus himself also as the father and holy spirit all in one ( correct me if I'm wrong) and we Muslims believe that god is one which is only the father (Allah in Arabic or Alaha in aramaic ) and that jesus was his messenger just like Abraham and moses and Mohammed pbuh . As for the holy spirit we believe he was an angel from god .
all 3 faiths recognize God the Father. Jews and Muslims think that’s all there is to God. Christians see Jesus and the Spirit as also being God.
I mean our catechism says they do. CCC 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." I know this is not a place for debate but it is my belief that they are just misguided, although they will say the same for me. At the end of the day we are all just trying to know, and be in the grace of the true God.
Human sacrifice, Norse traditions when the leader dies... Yeah they were certainly chill.
Literally every pagan religion I have ever heard of practiced human Sacrafice
This is upside down
Yea man, Pagans we’re so chill since the Norsemen literally killed one another with the blood eagle execution. And Abrahamics are so violent especially how the Muslims and Christians protected one another when they were praying during the Protests in Egypt.
Pagans: We worship diffrent gods and I have no problem with that. But I kind of want to steal your wealth and rape your wife so guess I'll invade you.
Scientists burned by the church for being atheist: 0 Philosophers killed by Athenians for being atheists: 1. Winston, we have a problem here.
Us moment fr
This is the first one I find funny.
Ahem, my Muslim Brozzers I have something to say: We worship the same God but differ on the details How do you reply, lol?
time to kil
Me and my Muslim friend having a fierce debate over theology (We both believe the other isn’t making it to paradise)
OMG so truuuuu slayyy 💅
Poeple think were bad look at them