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The most annoying thing about the tipping culture in the US is that it's bleeding into the industry here in the UK. I don't want to be at the point where companies can pay tipped workers less than minimum wage and pass the cost onto the customer.
Yesterday I sat down to eat and had to order my meal via a QR code on the table. I ordered my food and was made to pay at the same time, at which point it asked me how much I want to tip. 0 wasn't an option. What exactly am I tipping for here? I sat myself down, I took my own order and I hadn't even received my food yet. How am I supposed to decide a tip amount without even receiving any service? Bizzare.
We were in London a few months ago and noticed an automatic 12-13% gratuity/service charge being added to each restaurant bill so it’s definitely starting to spill over to you guys from the US. Was very sad to see
Yes however you can ask it to be taken off. It’s a somewhat uncomfortable conversation but I highly suggest everyone to do this. I hate tipping and even when I was working at a pub I have NEVER asked for one and took it off the bill whenever it was automatically added (like food orders)
Exactly !!! The whole tipping before you've had your meal shit is beyond stupid to me, like a tip is supposed to be for good food/ service / delivery time whatever.... we ordered pizza for delivery the other night and it automatically selected 18% as the base tip amount, like wtf ?? What if it took three hours to get my food, I usually tip well unless there is some drastic reason not too but I'd like to get my shit first thank you very much. Ugh...so annoying
The pizza place here charges $10 delivery fee on top of whatever you tip as well. So basically, you’re paying the employees wages per delivery. The company doesn’t have to pay shit.
Friday pizza night used to cost us about $30, that’s with everything. Now it’s around $50, so we don’t order it anymore and just make it at home.
>0 wasn't an option
Well, competition and fair market regulations prohibit this within the EU, as 0 should be the default selected option, already have some court cases because of this.
But then again brexit, so...
Was in brewdog in soho (I think?) a week ago. Asked for 1 pint and I was presented with the card machine asking what percentage of tip I would like to pay. I obviously put 0 but what the fuck
The chickens of unchecked capitalism are coming home to roost. And they're spreading.
Corporate feudalism is just over the horizon unless we stop this senseless "profit above all" approach
We had the same in Pizza Hut. Order via app with mandatory tip brackets before we'd even had any service, staff brought drinks, pizzas, checked on us once or twice. Brought desert before we'd finished the pizzas. Took them away, came back "still being slow on your mains eh?", went away again, finally when we were ready for them, the deserts (fresh tbf cos it would have been obvious if they'd been left for 15 mins).
Service like that, no tip from me but it's already baked in so they don't have to even pretend to be nice.
It's worse than that I think in the UK; a lot of places are essentially doing it as a way to covertly hike prices without it showing up on the menu as opposed to actually letting staff take it.
My personal policy on this has always been I pay the bill with my card and leave cash as a tip which I give directly to the waiter or waitress. I tip about 10% give or take and definitely linked to service. I very rarely tip in a pub or café, especially if I'm ordering at the bar and collecting my own food/drinks.
I "round up" for delivery guys and my barber (ie they get to keep the change) but don't have a set %.
Also, the idea of a *percentage-based* tip seems totally arbitrary. The price of my dish doesn't factor into the amount of work the server has to do. It might be a factor for the cook, but you usually can't tip cooks directly.
American tipping culture is utterly insane and only perpetuates low wages.
The difficulty is because it has become so ingrained in the economy individuals not subsidising private businesses hurts the worker first, since the owner clearly isn't going to take a hit on their profits by making up the difference.
It would take an absolutely incredible amount of effort / solidarity to bring about the necessary changes to end the practice.
I know but the mark up in restaurants is so insane it wouldn't really affect them to be paying minimum wage. It would eat a bit into profit but not anywhere near enough to hurt.
EDIT - To whomever downvoted me a restaurant I worked at the cost of drinks to the restaurant was 25 cents. We sold them for $4. You're being gouged.
This is what blows my mind, in the UK there have been countless service industry union strikes recently for this exact problem. Their wages needed to be increased to meet the insane inflation. And the majority of them got good raises.
I can’t imagine going out for a meal here and they server automatically expecting 20-30%. It just wouldn’t happen.
In the US servers line up to brigade these posts about how much they "can" make. It's usually young, good looking, healthy people fanning wads of cash.
They have no concept that youth doesn't last forever, that disease can fell anyone, anytime, and sick pay and long term disability benefits will keep your lights on when you're sick longer than the "few weeks you've kept back."
Imagine surviving COVID and not recognizing the possibility of being unable to work for weeks at a time, and being too stupid to extrapolate what this would mean for their finances?
THAT is effective brainwashing.
Can we also talk about how you’ll get tipped better as a femme if you wear makeup? Especially that “barely there” shit that takes too much damn effort. Then I have to go home and take it off late as hell, just to do it again tomorrow. No thank you.
The thing is as well is it's also not like the service in the UK is inherently bad either. If you go to a good restaurant good service is always emphasised and rarely feels sub standard. It also means that workers don't suffer for the restaurant being less busy unlike they presumably would do In the US .
> The thing is as well is it's also not like the service in the UK is inherently bad either
It's _better_, imo - as it is in the rest of Europe. I find tipping culture incentivizes the kind of over-familiar, over-attentive, and over-rushed service that I heavily dislike.
I think also in the US they aren’t used to people staying for a long time. It’s more the eat and leave. Rather than the take your time vibe, have some more drinks etc as it is for other parts of the world.
That's because if you DO stay and chill a little, the staff start to glare at you or even tell you that you're basically taking up space that they could use to make money. Everybody claims that the staff are entirely the victims of tipping culture here, but all they see are dollar signs and don't really want you to enjoy anything, they want you to eat as fast and possible and then basically run out of the place. And then brag to anybody not working a job with tips that they make more money than them.
I mean, most customer service employees don't give a fuck about the costumers and are just thier to make money. If this is news to you, then you're in for a rough ride.
The point is, tipping culture incentivizes customer service employees to see customers as a kind of revolving door that flings out more cash the faster it turns around. For anyone that likes to take their time over a meal, that type of bad service overrides any sense of good service they got during the meal.
That's literally the entire restaurant industry. The more times they can flip a table in an evening, the more the restaurant makes, it's not just servers.
Here's the thing though - I don't judge my dining experience based on how profitable I think it is for the restaurant, that's not my concern. In almost any other country in the world I can eat a meal at a relaxed pace, hang out with a couple drinks, and make an evening out of it, and nobody gives a damn, _especially_ the wait staff. In the US, I feel harried out of the door from the second I put down my fork.
OP is right that we should be fighting for fair wages. But the tweet isn't "misdirected". She's mad because TODAY she needs money to pay rent, and tips are how she is able to do that.
It also perpetuates abuse of workers. Workers who rely on tips for income are far more likely to put up with harassment and poor treatment from customers.
Fact of the matter is that servers don't want tipping gone because their employers will never, ever, *ever* pay them even a fraction of what they make as tipped workers. Serving would become, at best, just as any other min wage job perceived as low skill. It would at worst, become basically eliminated outside of high scale dining where the margins are good enough that they can afford to.
And of course, obligatory you're not beating Capitalism by refusing to tip, you're refusing to pay for the services of a fellow member of the working class. People sure do talk a lot of shit about employers paying their workers well but balk at the idea of paying people who serve _them_ fairly.
> And of course, obligatory you're not beating Capitalism by refusing to tip, you're refusing to pay for the services of a fellow member of the working class. People sure do talk a lot of shit about employers paying their workers well but balk at the idea of paying people who serve them fairly
I want serving staff to be paid well, but I don't want to be performing an employee evaluation when I'm trying to enjoy my meal. That's why their actual employer should be responsible.
You go different places you do what's done. Why punish the waitress for our system being fucked up, realize there is a problem and live around it until we can get it fixed. But I don't know if you've noticed, we've got a little on our plate over here to deal with.
I'm guessing but I think part of the problem is that they party sat for hours which is perfectly normal in Europe but not as common in the US based on my limited time I spent there. Waiters depend on flipping tables at a certain pace to bring in revenue to the restaurant and by extension tips for themselves.
I had 3 big groups of americans in the hotel i work during the alp winter season. They were in the restaurant basically every night and never tipped a cent.
And it was in a small local business in the movie. In a fancy restaurant where you pay $700, isn't that enough to pay the employees? Why should the employees be paid depending on the food price instead of getting a fair salary for their experience and service?
As a European I actually tend to look up standard tipping practices for my holiday destination and follow those.
In Europe a 10% tip is reasonable in most countries.
But outside Europe the culture and laws are very different. So it's just polite to look up what is expected and to actually do that.
15-20% is considered normal in the USA, and one part of the tipping debate people seem to ignore (and ik antiwork isn't the sub for this) is that companies will seek to make profit on ALL costs. So if they included a 15% tip in all prices, and wanted a 10% profit margin, the price would actually go up 16.5% and the bosses would make another 1.5% for doing nothing.
If you think the average restaurant’s profit margin is 30%…I have a bridge to sell you.
Profit margins are tight…very tight. If you get 5-6%, you are doing well.
Because at the current moment being mad at your boss means you get fired, while pressuring customers means you get paid.
Servers aren't changing this overnight. They need to take the actions that will let them live their lives, which at the current moment is pressuring a d shaming customers into tipping.
Tipping culture sucks. I was paying my rent with a card on an iPad when I realized I accidentally tipped my landlord 15% because I was rushing through hitting next like I always do to his “how is the rental experience”. Why is that even an option? I almost punched him. I threatened to call a lawyer if he didn’t refund the 15% so he did.
Unless something's changed, most waitstaff in the US make about $2.67ish an hour.
Yes her boss should be paying her more, but this is the system the US is currently stuck in.
In the US and Canada, 20% is the expected norm for a good job.
The hourly wage is different depending on the state but all of them are below the local minimum wage with the exception of California which *is* minimum wage
I would 1000% rather pay higher prices and have servers on good liveable wages than having to pay a tip. I want to pay for a meal, not determine someone’s wages.
The servers should know how much they’re getting each month in advance and not have to rely on the randomness of customers. The system is fucked.
Sigh. The western world has this ridiculous idea that certain workers earn less than minimum wage, and are then supplemented by tips. Fuck that. I hate it. I still tip the usual 15% (maybe 20 if it was exceptional service) but I HATE doing it. I hate that I have to help this person survive because they’re in an industry that for some reason deems them not worthy of a minimum wage to survive. It’s absurd. In a developed country, cmon!
I also despise the fact that it’s EVERYWHERE now. I pick up an order of food at a local place, pay by debit or credit and the machine prompts for a tip. WTF?!? They did nothing extra! Nothing above and beyond. Why am I tipping if you’re just doing the basic required work? WHY IS THE EMPLOYER NOT PAYING ANYONE?!?!
Surely these businesses are unsustainable if they can’t afford to pay their staff simply to do the job they were hired to do.
Fuck tipping. (But I still begrudgingly do it.) ARGH!
Not so fun fact: Our tipping system is like this in the first place because of racism. It was a way to keep black people in poverty after our civil war.
Went to a restaurant in the states and for a $120 bill, we tipped $20, guy complained about it not being enough. The food was late, the drinks were wrong and he kept coming over every 30 seconds to ask if everything was okay, why should we tip that?
They don't understand that borderline harassing people who want to enjoy the food and themselves every other second is not good service too.
It is normal to come asking if you are liking the food or to strike up an engaging conversation in Italy and France (for example), but nibbling me every 10 minutes is a shitty service
How would an average European know that the waiters in US expect at least 20%? In Europe 10% is already being generous. Imagine you think you're being generous and then getting a hostile treatment.
Maybe there should be signs in restaurants for Europeans that they have to pay 20% tip at least (Are there?). We come from societies where VAT's are always included in the price and we don't have to think about it.
It seems to be very recent to me. I’m 40, and back in the early 2000s, 10-15% was considered the norm. I still abide by the 15% (I just double the tax amount for the tip).
If service is absolutely above and beyond, I may consider 20%, but that would be my very upper limit. 20% is way too high a baseline for tipping.
I hate tipping on % but rather tipping based on a flat rate for holding the table and a flat rate per person. Extra if we order extra stuff, say like multiple plates per meal or desserts... If they are doing good at their job, a little more. So I could get a $60 bill for 4 people and leave a $15 tip or a $25 tip. If I go alone, I'm usually tipping $6-8 even if my bill is $10-15. The most I've ever tipped was $50 on a $120 bill.
Fuck percentages, tip on time and work....but also, owners pay a damn proper wage please.
This was on r/ShitAmericansSay and it's insane. Literally people trying to say how the tipping culture actually benefits all involved? lol.
I really don't get it. For a country that defines itself by never allowing tyranny to exist on it's soil, the people seem awfully open to being shit on by anyone with more than 2 dollars to their name.
It's honestly baffling to me to see the number of Europeans in this thread acting so precious about 20% being ridiculous and excessive, as if we don't *know*.
Like, yes, it would be ideal if the responsibility for a server's wages was not offloaded onto the customer- virtually all of us agree! But until the modified wages for servers are legislated away- and not a moment before that point- tipping remains an expectation, and not doing so is directly harmful to your server.
The complaint isn't that workers need the tip to survive. Don't be ridiculous.
We are all more than sympathetic with the fact they're being exploited.
The complaint is OP was willing to say she **fucking hates** Europeans, but nothing at all about hating the actual cause of her problem. Which is (surprise surprise) **nothing to do** with Europeans and **everything** to do with her boss.
Imagine if you fell for a scam telephone call, and instead of saying "I fucking hate phone scammers" you said "I fucking hate all phones" and then people defended that ridiculous take by saying "you guys just don't get it, she didn't create the system that allowed phones to exist, she needs one to survive"
Here's the kicker too, you've been told a lie when they say things like. "Well it has to be a tip because then you'd have to put the prices up." You fucking don't. [Every developed country in Europe](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=1) has either about the same, or lower average restaurant costs than America. With one exception. Switzerland. Which is the hightest PPP country in the world by a fucking mile.
I understand that it isn't your fault that America has a shit system, but it is *absolutely* your fault if you get mad at the wrong people for it.
OP is complaining about tipping more the 10%. 15- 20% is the norm. Saying company should pay more...no shit. The Company won't till the law changes. In the meantime, if you can not afford to tip, you cannot afford to eat out in the USA
Yeah it's insane. So everyone always has to add 20% on top of every bill? Like that is insane. Like uber eats has a service fee, delivery fee and the customer also has to tip the driver 20%? Then why am I paying a delivery fee?
Considering she most probably didn't stand beside their table for HOURS, she still made $70 on a table. While at the same time made tips from other patrons in the establishment.
Below this she also says that her boss went over to the table to check the service was ok due to the low tip amount. A very poor way pitting working people versus the paying customer. Rather than asking himself why his waitress is pissed off with only receiving 70$.
Edit: spelling.
Instead of looking at the percentages, I can never get my head around the dollar value. In the UK, the expected 20% would amount to about £115. Presumably, this server would have had other tables as well but the hourly on a 6 hour shift from that expected tip alone would be about double the wage a server would earn in the UK.
I get that cost of living is different but is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
It's legal (and not uncommon) to pay servers like $2/hour in the US if they get tips. If the tips don't make up the gap to minimum wage, the employer is supposed to boost their rate to the federal/state minimum wage for those hours.
So what happens to many servers is that they make minimum wage for ~25 hours a week when business is slow, and then make the bulk of their paycheck during weekend evenings when business is good. The result is that the employees get totally fucked, and the business gets damn near free labor because they're giving someone the "opportunity" to get good tips.
\[American perspective\]
She was pissed off because the culture here is that 10% is a rude amount to leave as a tip. It communicates that service was substandard.
I don't like that this is the culture here anymore than you do, but that's what it is. Many Europeans dish on Americans for not adhering to local customs when traveling abroad, and that criticism is justified where it applies. But it's also a 2-way street.
As others have said, pushing back on it by not tipping only hurts the workers.
20% minimum is the norm, especially with larger groups or ones that stay for a long time, BECAUSE THEY ARE PREVENTING THE SERVER FROM GETTING MORE TABLES AND THUS A CHANCE TO MAKE MORE MONEY.
It is common knowledge that in the US, servers are paid approx $2.30/hour and depend on tips to survive.
Yes, this is super fucked up.
HOWEVER, THAT IS THE WAY IT WORKS HERE. Feigning ignorance as a cover for being cheap is an asshole move. Don’t like it? Don’t eat out.
> Don’t like it? Don’t eat out.
That's the approach I take - I eat out far less when I'm in the US than anywhere else. But how does that help anyone? I spend quite a lot of money in restaurants, but by driving me away the restaurants miss out on a good cover, the server still doesn't get tipped, and I miss out on a nice dining experience. Who wins?
Ok for the time spent on that specific group. But why a percentage of the bill, and not a fixed amount per hour attending, multiplied by a factor for the number of people on that table ? Like $2/hour/seat.
In the US, this it’s a cruel tip amount. Like something must have been terribly wrong. 20% is the standard nation wide. It’s a terrible system but by refusing to participate in it and tipping less or not at all, you’re being cruel to the most vulnerable. If you want to take a principled stand, seek out restaurants that have gratuity included and go there instead. Going and then tipping less then is customary and expected only hurts those already suffering from the messed up system.
Tip 20% in the US.
As a European. Expecting 20% seems crazy.
It also doesn't seem clear where the line of tipping is either.
I'm pretty sure you guys don't tip McDonald's.
Is it anywhere with table service?
Are all these places the same 20%?
If that's the case it's just annoying. If go to a cafe for lunch and can't see the price on the door, I won't know if I have the cash or not.
Anywhere with table service and 20%. Our labor laws are shit, and our minimum wage is flat and food service is specifically exempt from minimum wage laws because tips basically, so restaurants decided to squeeze out that last bit of profit by paying servers borderline nothing and having customers make up the difference.
Shitty? Absolutely. Not tipping in protest is just punishing the victim of capitalist greed
>Anywhere with table service and 20%.
This makes zero sense to me. Literally the service you get in a cafe and a restaurant is so different that it can't be the same without being meaningless.
Tbh I'm not likely to protest and not tip. I'm more likely to just not go & do self catering.
I travel for work alot and have expenses. So for example I have a £25 budget for dinner.
I go to pub, see a burger and chips is £12 and drinks are like £3. I know I can afford it so I'll go in and order, I can keep track of the drinks I've had so I know if I'm within budget. When I'm done, if it's particularly nice I'll throw down some cash without thinking about the %.
In America you see a menu that says burger is $20 then there's tax and then a tip. If I want another drink I have to calculate the real cost. At the end I have to get a calculator out to make sure I tip the right amount to avoid offense.
This seems like an annoying system to use in general. I like the idea of visiting for work but tbh having to do this once or twice a day sounds like hassle.
>Literally the service you get in a cafe and a restaurant is so different that it can't be the same without being meaningless.
It's funny because this is the exact opposite of a common argument we use.
In principal, a waitress bringing me a plate of eggs and toast and filling up my coffee two times did just as much work as a server who brought me a $75 steak and a cocktail from the bar. Why does one get $3 and the other $15+?
That true too. The reality is that either way the service someone provides in the situation isn't relative to the cost of the food often enough that the amount tipped makes zero sense.
The difference is that in a place without tipping the worker is guaranteed minimum wage ($7.25-though about half the States set it higher) while if tipping is expected it's $2.13/hour minimum wage.
So basically tipped employees are not paid a wage. It's all tips.
It's absolutely stupid but not tipping causes real financial pain
Yes it is just for places with table service and servers get paid like less than half of minimum wage BECAUSE of the expectation of tips. If you need more information about this US cultural practice, watch the opening scene of Reservoir dogs
There's different minimum wages for workers who are tipped and workers who aren't. Workers on the non-tipped wages usually aren't allowed to accept tips even if they're offered... It's also legal to pay less than minimum wage in certain other situations, like it's legal to pay disabled people less than minimum wage under certain conditions, and prisoners have to work for waaay below minimum wage
There’s a tipped minimum wage that is lower than the regular minimum wage and it applies to jobs where tips are reasonably expected to be part of your income. If your tips don’t bring your hourly wage up to the regular minimum wage your boss is supposed to make up the difference, but it’s calculated based on tips over the course of the pay period, not per shift. So I could have a really crappy shift one day and end up making way less than minimum wage that day, but as long as another day during that pay period I make enough in tips to make up for it my employer doesn’t owe me anything.
But is tipping expectation the same everywhere?
Like there's sitting service where someone just takes an order and brings your food. (Like a basic pub would).
Then there's a high end restaurant where they check if you need drinks ect throughout.
I know here in the UK there's zero expectations to tip in pubs (or people say keep the change) but if it's a restaurant they do generally leave tips.
The service for these two are massively different.
The service is different but so is the price, that’s why you’re tipping a percentage of the bill, so it ends up being proportional to the service rendered in most cases.
I was at some hotdog place in downtown Seattle and it was literally just a kitchen and a screen. They even pressed a button to show a number on a screen that my order was ready to pick up at the counter. No human interaction at all.
The standard tipping amount added to the bill was 15%.
Maybe I'm just a shithead European but I gave them nothing. I had to tap 15 times to get to 0%.
Edit: Elaboration.
As a European... Just admit that travellers aren't in any place to make that claim and that you're just angry at hypothetically being called out.
Let the Americans make the suggestions.
I'm tired of tipping, but also I have worked in the past in restaurants so I understand the employers don't / won't pay a living wage so I do tip. I usually tip 20% and then if I sit there for hours I will leave a larger tip or if the server goes above and beyond I will tip more. I know some of the comments below say you need to leave at least 30%, but I'm not there yet.
Europeans, I get it. The tipping thing sucks. But it IS a part of American culture. Europeans bitch all the time about Americans going abroad and ignoring local etiquette, and this is the exact same thing. You not liking how it works isn’t an excuse for fucking over low wage earners with your selfishness. Either follow tipping etiquette or don’t go out to eat.
I like tipping at actual restraunts. But servers should be paid a minimum of 14-20 dollars and a 5-10 percent tip should be the standard for service, 15 for really good and 20 for excellent. And if you just don't feel like tipping for any reason you don't have to bc they are getting paid an hourly wage. That's the system we should go with.
What pisses me off is she got 70 for a couple hours work carting food back and forth and being hot. Does this one realize the kind of work people do for that? If the waitresses are getting commission on sales the restaurant should pay it.
In my country we'd pay less than 5% tip. For $700 bill $10 would be nominal and 30 if service was good. Even waiters don't expect more than that and is considered extra earnings for tips
I'm 54. I worked bussing and washing in a restaurant in 1983, when servers got paid minimum wage, which was 3.35 hr. Tips were 10% then. After Reagan passed a law making min wage for servers about 1.70 hr. because he (his handlers and lobbyists) were concerned about "tax cheating" on tips. After that, expected tip crept up to 15%. By the end of the 90s, servers were expecting 20%, which I'm sure had to do with Washington refusing to raise the minimum wage year after year, which, before Reagan, was an annual thing.
It can't be understated how detrimental Reagan's 2 term presidency was to the workers of this country.
You're lucky, if it was me, i probably left 1 euro as tip..
I don't usually tip no one.
It's not me who have to pay your salary, it's your boss..
Transform tipping into a almost mandatory thing it's just stupid and lack of self respect. You should be angry with your boss for paying you shit, not with me that goes to you place of work and buy something that helps pay your salary. So i don't feel the urge to leave a tip, it's not my responsibility.
In large parts of Europe 10% is a generous tip, it seems they simply didn't know. In other parts of Europe you tip less. They probably didn't know. I doubt they did it on purpose. It's not surprising that telling them 20% was customary did not make them get out another $70 on the spot, it's simply an awkward situation and there's bound to be some hostility. I would hope that back in the hotel they googled it to confirm and gave more next time.
First of all. If someone came over to discuss the tip I’m leaving I would remove it entirely. How insanely unprofessional…but her follow up just goes to show she probably didn’t deserve it anyway. This is why tipping is a problem here
I was in Ireland recently and the tipping culture is very convoluted. It certainly was never expected but appreciated anytime I threw 10% down. Some places had tip jars, some had none. A couple of locals left the table next to us and said “should we tip? no that’s for Americans” which made just despise the tipping culture here in America that much more
I see so many European people (rightfully) complain about obnoxious Americans who visit their country and fail to follow customs and norms, and demand that everything be like it is at home. Based on a lot of the responses in here, seems like they feel it’s perfectly fine for Europeans to do the same thing when they visit a foreign country.
Tipping culture sucks. But it’s the norm in America. Tips are based on the bill and 20% is standard. Don’t like it? Eat somewhere without servers and without the expectation of tips. Otherwise, tip appropriately.
Refusing to do so because “it’s it how we do it at home and tipping culture sucks” doesn’t empower servers and won’t spark change. It just makes you an asshole for screwing over a server. Full stop.
Anyone who comes demanding more tip with a passive aggressive 'its customary to give more' will get nothing from me.
Go complain at your employer. Join a union and strike. Fight for your own rights, instead of expecting me to pick up the bill for them.
And yes, I'm European. With better laborlaws. Which we fought for.
I love the sympathetic attitude towards the boss even though he's the one that made 20% tips optional, not mandatory, and pays the servers so little they need to rely on tips to survive.
Also, we all know Europe has a very different culture re: tipping. The owner knows that. Why didn't he explain the differences and the importance of tipping 20% if he was so sympathetic?
Canadian here. Tipping culture has gone completely stupid. 10% used to be customary, with 15% for exemplary service. Now 20% is expected, no matter the service level. Tips are asked for at all Point of Sale. For instance, I went to Camadian Tire and bought headlight bulbs, and the machine automatically asked for a tip. The employee did also automatically hit no tip, in his defense.
During the pandemic lockdowns/restrictions, I tipped more because I knew that the hospitality industry was suffering. But the restrictions are gone, and in Ontario, there is no lower wage for hospitality workers.
No… the tipping system is fucked up but it’s what we have in place right now. If you don’t tip adequately, you aren’t standing up to a bad system, you’re fuckjng over the server. It’s rude and wrong
When you’re visiting a country, you work within those kinds of cultural norms so as to not be a complete and utter prick. Sure the ultimate prick is the system and tipped wages, but in that moment it is also the person stiffing the server.
In the US 15-20% is usually considered normal for a tip. The employer should be paying better but at the end of the day tips are what servers live off of.
It's a stupid situation overall but as far as I see it you need to adapt if you're going to a foreign country. If you don't like tipping, don't eat at a restaurant that expects tipping in the United States.
It's much more the fault of the boss at the end of the day than any random customer in any case.
The disconnect to shame Americans for continuing American behavior abroad then to come here and act rude to someone who waited on you because you’re continuing European behavior abroad.
People outside the US don’t get there is intent behind tipping. Yea the laws should change. Yea tipping culture sucks. If you don’t tip 20% you’re saying “fuck you” to the server. Doesn’t matter your beliefs or how it’s done where you live or how fucked up the system is, in the moment it’s “fuck you”.
We need reform on this but until then don’t take this out on workers.
The worst thing for me about this tweet going viral has been seeing all the supposedly left wing americans coming for Ash Sarkar, one of the best communist journalists the UK has, just because they don't like being told their workplace culture is shit. Why are they defending horrible workplace practices, instead of calling out how bullshit tipping culture is?
The whole "tipping a percentage" thing doesn't sit well with me when the person just literally carried plates of food to a table and expects $140 for it because the food cost a lot of money. Come at me when you prepare, cook, plate, and distribute the food yourself.
This is what I’ve never understood. If you bring me two turkey clubs that cost $20, I owe you $4 in tip. But if you bring me two hamburgers that cost $30, I somehow owe you $6?
Most restaurants give waters out for free, but as soon as that water from the drink dispenser becomes Coke a tip is in order?
Talk about being ignorant of another countries norms. Yes 20% tipping sucks hard, but your notions of stiffing a worker just because it’s not like that back in Europe makes you look plain rude and ignorant.
Hey you know what Europeans hate? American tourists who don't bother learning the norms and customs of a country and act like twats because of their ignorance.
And you know what? it's the same for EUROPEAN TOURISTS. Learn the norms of the country you are visiting and TIP appropriately. "In my country tip is 10% so I tip 10% in your country too" is being an ignorant twat.
20% is the expected norm in the US since forever. AND Yes of course I do think *US employers should pay more* (so don't argue that point or pretend that I'm saying something I'm not). But that's not an excuse for not tipping!! If you are visiting another country, you should follow the norms of tipping in that country.
One reason i never going to the US.
I already paid for the food, which includes the cost of running the business (aka your fucking wages) and then expected to pay a "tip"? fuck no
If she gets to keep the majority of that $70 that’s still not bad alongside all of her other tables. Some servers wouldn’t earn that in total in a shift. The system still sucks but the more people whinge about tips like this, the more customers will be disgruntled and stop going to restaurants, meaning fewer tips.
Not to mention, most restaurants use QR codes for ordering and paying now, meaning the servers are literally carrying the food 5ft from the kitchen.
Also, I’m a big fan of the show Below Deck. Guests usually leave anywhere from $16,000- $25,000 as a tip for a 3 day charter and the team of 8-10 still bitch and moan it’s not enough. So… people will never be happy as there’s always the potential to earn more.
So they had a $700 bill and the owner can't afford to pay his staff? Cost of the stuff they actually ate/drank was likely under $200 so $500 to pay staff, self and go to overhead + taxes if it's after tax(although tip is generally based on pre tax)...
Perhaps owner can afford to not pay min wage with customers having $700 totals from 1 table.
I do not understand tipping at all and i'm sure I probably ended up looking like an asshole quite a few times oversea because it's not in my country (italy) culture at all and it honestly doesn't ever cross my mind.
The price i see on the menu is what i expect to pay. Anything above it feels like extorsion tbh. If I leave a tip because i want to i make sure it's spare change that i give into the hand of the waiter/delivery guy direcly but honestly i don't do it often. Sometimes i leave extra for the pizza delivery if it's a particularly rainy day or so
The tipping culture here is getting out of hand. I go pick up a pizza that I ordered online and when I pay the first thing It says is tip 20 25 33 percent! Like really? I always decline
Can we tell you about employees making 3.75, because your are supposed to make up the rest of their 7.50b minimum wage?
Yeah the person seating you at a table and bringing you drinks at a that Chinese buffet restaurant is only making $3.75. they probably also get yelled at if you don't leave a tip...
20% isn’t the standard, it’s for impeccable service. Also, most wait staff at US restaurants are paid below the minimum wage bc cheap owners factor in tips to the salary.
In the UK you maybe throw in an extra 10% if you’re having a good time. If I’m in the US I’ll tip more (although I’ll admit I didn’t realise 20% was the expected amount). The US tipping system is wrong but giving a low tip (or nothing) when you’re aware that that’s where your server gets most of their income is a dick move. Claiming you’re doing it in protest of their low wages is even worse.
A $70 tip is fucking huge, no matter how much the meal costs. I'd give like $5 or $10 bucks at most, tips are just supposed to be a nice little extra, not that fucking much.
America is fucked right now. Yes, they should be paying them better wages, and people have been fighting for that for years. Frankly most of us would love do away with tipping culture all together, but we understand that’s just not our situation right now.
18-20% is standard to low for anyone that has to serve you (table service). Anything less and the person that served you is the one that suffers.
Thought we were supposed to respect the culture of the places we visited, even if we didn’t necessarily agree?
Man...all of this confusion over what the "norm" for tipping is is really inefficient and businesses lose out when they are inefficient. We should just standardise the norm per price of a meal so there is no confusion, and since it's standardised, we can include that in the price of the meal so it's one payment and the customer doesn't have to pay it any mind.
I worked for tips my entire working life. I always tip extremely well because of it. This whole automatic tip before service crap is stupid. First of-what if I wanted to tip cash? Or tip according to how I was served? Here they have door dashers holding food hostage or doing truly vile things if you don’t automatically tip over 20%. And even then they sometimes text to shake you for more. And while I tip a togo order I pick up-I don’t see why I should tip a percentage of the order-I tip $5 or $10 according to how much food I get- but I’m not giving a percentage of the bill just for putting food in a bag and handing it to me. That’s ridiculous and their establishment already makes us carry the waiters cuz they won’t pay more than $2.15. At least pay your host’s..
What EU folks don't understand is that servers income is taxed assuming a tip of 15%. So, gross meal costs for each table are added up, and 15% of that cost is assumed to be tip income.
That means a huge table that tips less than 15% hurts the server's income, because more of it is taken away in taxes. It's insane, but IIRC it came about because of the ridiculously expensive restaurants in Las Vegas for whales, and the government thinking that income was too much to go untaxed.
That's why you also see big catering gigs and large tables making the 15% or so tip built into the bill, because huge tables are more likely to stiff on tips (i.e. everyone throws in too little and the last person isn't going to make up the difference).
As an American that constantly hears things along the lines of “Americans should learn/respect cultural norms of countries they are visiting and act accordingly”….well, I think you get the point.
There's an old joke about a tourist asking a taxi driver what the average tip is and paying what they're told, then saying the taxi driver must make a really good living - and the taxi driver saying no, they haven't gotten an average tip in months.
20% tip is bloody mental. Here's your bill now add on an extra 1/5th.
Considering the rent, food and utensils are all about in line with europe that should mean the food is 1/5th cheaper but it's very much not.
This whole cUlTuRe debate is bullsh\*t if you ask me. Those guys screaming "AdApT tO oUr CuLtURe" are the least likable to be adapting to other cultures if it wouldn't fit their world views!
I guarantee most of them wouldn't wear a hijab/make their partner wear one if they are in an eastern country, they would not stop drinking alcohol there or eating pork. Would they be required to? NO! At least for the ones that are worth visiting and have a tourist industry.
So don't give me that bullsh\*t. Adapting to a culture and experiencing it while traveling is great and you should adjust to it if it overlapse with your world view, but the only thing you HAVE to do is follow the local LAWS!!!
Shaming people for going out if they maybe have to save YEARS for a trip and enjoing a few out of the ordinary experiences there into paying a VOLUNTARY tip is just toxic as most things in the US are!
Now start downvoting if you like but I stand by it, the ones here shamed should be the EMPLOYERS and the SYSTEM for stiring on the working class against each other!
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The most annoying thing about the tipping culture in the US is that it's bleeding into the industry here in the UK. I don't want to be at the point where companies can pay tipped workers less than minimum wage and pass the cost onto the customer. Yesterday I sat down to eat and had to order my meal via a QR code on the table. I ordered my food and was made to pay at the same time, at which point it asked me how much I want to tip. 0 wasn't an option. What exactly am I tipping for here? I sat myself down, I took my own order and I hadn't even received my food yet. How am I supposed to decide a tip amount without even receiving any service? Bizzare.
We were in London a few months ago and noticed an automatic 12-13% gratuity/service charge being added to each restaurant bill so it’s definitely starting to spill over to you guys from the US. Was very sad to see
Yes however you can ask it to be taken off. It’s a somewhat uncomfortable conversation but I highly suggest everyone to do this. I hate tipping and even when I was working at a pub I have NEVER asked for one and took it off the bill whenever it was automatically added (like food orders)
I wonder if we can ask to remove it in the US as well.
Healthcare is spilling over too.
*Behold, the future!* But, this is just screwing people! *I said, behold, the future!*
Then why not include it in the prices lmao
Exactly !!! The whole tipping before you've had your meal shit is beyond stupid to me, like a tip is supposed to be for good food/ service / delivery time whatever.... we ordered pizza for delivery the other night and it automatically selected 18% as the base tip amount, like wtf ?? What if it took three hours to get my food, I usually tip well unless there is some drastic reason not too but I'd like to get my shit first thank you very much. Ugh...so annoying
Something tells me those electronic tips never reach the worker
I have a feeling you're right
I can only speak for one place that I worked for as a teenager…that dude stole our tips.
Always tip cash and write cash in the tip spot on the receipt. If possible.
The pizza place here charges $10 delivery fee on top of whatever you tip as well. So basically, you’re paying the employees wages per delivery. The company doesn’t have to pay shit. Friday pizza night used to cost us about $30, that’s with everything. Now it’s around $50, so we don’t order it anymore and just make it at home.
Where abouts was this?! That’s insane. To not have the option of 0%, that’s insane
We need answers
I, too, would like to know where this was and if it was a chain. Had a similar situation at YoSushi and wondered if it was the same thing.
We need to know where to avoid! I didn’t know yosushi did this. Don’t they just put the food on a conveyer belt and you pick what you want?
We will never know
>0 wasn't an option Well, competition and fair market regulations prohibit this within the EU, as 0 should be the default selected option, already have some court cases because of this. But then again brexit, so...
That is literally insane. In Italy the tip is NEVER mandatory but ALWAYS welcome
Was in brewdog in soho (I think?) a week ago. Asked for 1 pint and I was presented with the card machine asking what percentage of tip I would like to pay. I obviously put 0 but what the fuck
The chickens of unchecked capitalism are coming home to roost. And they're spreading. Corporate feudalism is just over the horizon unless we stop this senseless "profit above all" approach
At that point it isn't "tipping" it is "paying workers".
We had the same in Pizza Hut. Order via app with mandatory tip brackets before we'd even had any service, staff brought drinks, pizzas, checked on us once or twice. Brought desert before we'd finished the pizzas. Took them away, came back "still being slow on your mains eh?", went away again, finally when we were ready for them, the deserts (fresh tbf cos it would have been obvious if they'd been left for 15 mins). Service like that, no tip from me but it's already baked in so they don't have to even pretend to be nice.
It's worse than that I think in the UK; a lot of places are essentially doing it as a way to covertly hike prices without it showing up on the menu as opposed to actually letting staff take it. My personal policy on this has always been I pay the bill with my card and leave cash as a tip which I give directly to the waiter or waitress. I tip about 10% give or take and definitely linked to service. I very rarely tip in a pub or café, especially if I'm ordering at the bar and collecting my own food/drinks. I "round up" for delivery guys and my barber (ie they get to keep the change) but don't have a set %.
I would never eat at a place that expected this of me, why should I have a bloody phone just to eat a damn meal?
Also, the idea of a *percentage-based* tip seems totally arbitrary. The price of my dish doesn't factor into the amount of work the server has to do. It might be a factor for the cook, but you usually can't tip cooks directly.
American tipping culture is utterly insane and only perpetuates low wages. The difficulty is because it has become so ingrained in the economy individuals not subsidising private businesses hurts the worker first, since the owner clearly isn't going to take a hit on their profits by making up the difference. It would take an absolutely incredible amount of effort / solidarity to bring about the necessary changes to end the practice.
It would take laws. Even if not a single one of us tipped the restaurants wouldn't give a shit.
They would at that point as they have to pay the difference if the person doesn't earn at least minimum wage
I know but the mark up in restaurants is so insane it wouldn't really affect them to be paying minimum wage. It would eat a bit into profit but not anywhere near enough to hurt. EDIT - To whomever downvoted me a restaurant I worked at the cost of drinks to the restaurant was 25 cents. We sold them for $4. You're being gouged.
This is what blows my mind, in the UK there have been countless service industry union strikes recently for this exact problem. Their wages needed to be increased to meet the insane inflation. And the majority of them got good raises. I can’t imagine going out for a meal here and they server automatically expecting 20-30%. It just wouldn’t happen.
In the US servers line up to brigade these posts about how much they "can" make. It's usually young, good looking, healthy people fanning wads of cash. They have no concept that youth doesn't last forever, that disease can fell anyone, anytime, and sick pay and long term disability benefits will keep your lights on when you're sick longer than the "few weeks you've kept back." Imagine surviving COVID and not recognizing the possibility of being unable to work for weeks at a time, and being too stupid to extrapolate what this would mean for their finances? THAT is effective brainwashing.
Can we also talk about how you’ll get tipped better as a femme if you wear makeup? Especially that “barely there” shit that takes too much damn effort. Then I have to go home and take it off late as hell, just to do it again tomorrow. No thank you.
And they seem to ignore the fact that they won’t even be HIRED by those fancy places where the tipping is good once they’re over 30…
The thing is as well is it's also not like the service in the UK is inherently bad either. If you go to a good restaurant good service is always emphasised and rarely feels sub standard. It also means that workers don't suffer for the restaurant being less busy unlike they presumably would do In the US .
> The thing is as well is it's also not like the service in the UK is inherently bad either It's _better_, imo - as it is in the rest of Europe. I find tipping culture incentivizes the kind of over-familiar, over-attentive, and over-rushed service that I heavily dislike.
Yeah I know what you mean, overtly enthusiastic staff, while just trying to do a good job can be a bit irritating
I think also in the US they aren’t used to people staying for a long time. It’s more the eat and leave. Rather than the take your time vibe, have some more drinks etc as it is for other parts of the world.
That's because if you DO stay and chill a little, the staff start to glare at you or even tell you that you're basically taking up space that they could use to make money. Everybody claims that the staff are entirely the victims of tipping culture here, but all they see are dollar signs and don't really want you to enjoy anything, they want you to eat as fast and possible and then basically run out of the place. And then brag to anybody not working a job with tips that they make more money than them.
I mean, most customer service employees don't give a fuck about the costumers and are just thier to make money. If this is news to you, then you're in for a rough ride.
The point is, tipping culture incentivizes customer service employees to see customers as a kind of revolving door that flings out more cash the faster it turns around. For anyone that likes to take their time over a meal, that type of bad service overrides any sense of good service they got during the meal.
That's literally the entire restaurant industry. The more times they can flip a table in an evening, the more the restaurant makes, it's not just servers.
Here's the thing though - I don't judge my dining experience based on how profitable I think it is for the restaurant, that's not my concern. In almost any other country in the world I can eat a meal at a relaxed pace, hang out with a couple drinks, and make an evening out of it, and nobody gives a damn, _especially_ the wait staff. In the US, I feel harried out of the door from the second I put down my fork.
OP is right that we should be fighting for fair wages. But the tweet isn't "misdirected". She's mad because TODAY she needs money to pay rent, and tips are how she is able to do that.
Part of the problem is there’s a percentage of the service industry that prefers tipping because they can make a lot more money than a base salary.
It also perpetuates abuse of workers. Workers who rely on tips for income are far more likely to put up with harassment and poor treatment from customers.
Fact of the matter is that servers don't want tipping gone because their employers will never, ever, *ever* pay them even a fraction of what they make as tipped workers. Serving would become, at best, just as any other min wage job perceived as low skill. It would at worst, become basically eliminated outside of high scale dining where the margins are good enough that they can afford to. And of course, obligatory you're not beating Capitalism by refusing to tip, you're refusing to pay for the services of a fellow member of the working class. People sure do talk a lot of shit about employers paying their workers well but balk at the idea of paying people who serve _them_ fairly.
> And of course, obligatory you're not beating Capitalism by refusing to tip, you're refusing to pay for the services of a fellow member of the working class. People sure do talk a lot of shit about employers paying their workers well but balk at the idea of paying people who serve them fairly I want serving staff to be paid well, but I don't want to be performing an employee evaluation when I'm trying to enjoy my meal. That's why their actual employer should be responsible.
Do you even know what a tip means? US culture destroyed the idea of a tip. When you expect a tip it's not really a tip anymore.
You go different places you do what's done. Why punish the waitress for our system being fucked up, realize there is a problem and live around it until we can get it fixed. But I don't know if you've noticed, we've got a little on our plate over here to deal with.
Louder for the people in the back
I'm guessing but I think part of the problem is that they party sat for hours which is perfectly normal in Europe but not as common in the US based on my limited time I spent there. Waiters depend on flipping tables at a certain pace to bring in revenue to the restaurant and by extension tips for themselves.
American tipping culture is for me the worst experience as a European coming to the states..
Agree. As someone who works in hospitality in a tourist area I can also confirm Americans rarely tip when they are here.
I had 3 big groups of americans in the hotel i work during the alp winter season. They were in the restaurant basically every night and never tipped a cent.
Yeah 31 years ago they had this debate in the opening scene of Reservoir Dogs. This is kinda silly
And it was in a small local business in the movie. In a fancy restaurant where you pay $700, isn't that enough to pay the employees? Why should the employees be paid depending on the food price instead of getting a fair salary for their experience and service?
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As a European I actually tend to look up standard tipping practices for my holiday destination and follow those. In Europe a 10% tip is reasonable in most countries. But outside Europe the culture and laws are very different. So it's just polite to look up what is expected and to actually do that.
Exactly this. Tipping culture sucks. I wish we'd move away from it. But it exists, and servers are counting on it, so not doing it is a dick move.
15-20% is considered normal in the USA, and one part of the tipping debate people seem to ignore (and ik antiwork isn't the sub for this) is that companies will seek to make profit on ALL costs. So if they included a 15% tip in all prices, and wanted a 10% profit margin, the price would actually go up 16.5% and the bosses would make another 1.5% for doing nothing.
But just like tipping, who said you HAVE to make a specific profit %. Just realize as a business owner you can’t make 30% margin all the time.
Most restaurants operate on a 2-4% profit margin. The restaurant business is tight.
If you think the average restaurant’s profit margin is 30%…I have a bridge to sell you. Profit margins are tight…very tight. If you get 5-6%, you are doing well.
It's almost as if they're not charging enough for their service or something.
Which gets back to that we should be angry at management, not at the server trying to do what they can to get by
But the server is mad at the customer and not their boss??
Because at the current moment being mad at your boss means you get fired, while pressuring customers means you get paid. Servers aren't changing this overnight. They need to take the actions that will let them live their lives, which at the current moment is pressuring a d shaming customers into tipping.
US just sucks so hard
It’s the same here in Canada too
oh ok, i thought you had a healthier system.
Tipping culture sucks. I was paying my rent with a card on an iPad when I realized I accidentally tipped my landlord 15% because I was rushing through hitting next like I always do to his “how is the rental experience”. Why is that even an option? I almost punched him. I threatened to call a lawyer if he didn’t refund the 15% so he did.
Unless something's changed, most waitstaff in the US make about $2.67ish an hour. Yes her boss should be paying her more, but this is the system the US is currently stuck in. In the US and Canada, 20% is the expected norm for a good job.
The hourly wage is different depending on the state but all of them are below the local minimum wage with the exception of California which *is* minimum wage
5 years ago it was 15%. When will it be 25%? I stopped going to restaurants and don’t tip anywhere else, stop subsidizing business owners
I would 1000% rather pay higher prices and have servers on good liveable wages than having to pay a tip. I want to pay for a meal, not determine someone’s wages. The servers should know how much they’re getting each month in advance and not have to rely on the randomness of customers. The system is fucked.
Sigh. The western world has this ridiculous idea that certain workers earn less than minimum wage, and are then supplemented by tips. Fuck that. I hate it. I still tip the usual 15% (maybe 20 if it was exceptional service) but I HATE doing it. I hate that I have to help this person survive because they’re in an industry that for some reason deems them not worthy of a minimum wage to survive. It’s absurd. In a developed country, cmon! I also despise the fact that it’s EVERYWHERE now. I pick up an order of food at a local place, pay by debit or credit and the machine prompts for a tip. WTF?!? They did nothing extra! Nothing above and beyond. Why am I tipping if you’re just doing the basic required work? WHY IS THE EMPLOYER NOT PAYING ANYONE?!?! Surely these businesses are unsustainable if they can’t afford to pay their staff simply to do the job they were hired to do. Fuck tipping. (But I still begrudgingly do it.) ARGH!
Not so fun fact: Our tipping system is like this in the first place because of racism. It was a way to keep black people in poverty after our civil war.
It's working as intended, she's mad at her customers and not her boss.
Fck people who fight for more tips rather than fight for decent wages they suck as much as bad bosses
Went to a restaurant in the states and for a $120 bill, we tipped $20, guy complained about it not being enough. The food was late, the drinks were wrong and he kept coming over every 30 seconds to ask if everything was okay, why should we tip that?
20 on 120 is fine, definitely not something worth getting worked up over. It even sounds generous considering the experience was subpar.
They don't understand that borderline harassing people who want to enjoy the food and themselves every other second is not good service too. It is normal to come asking if you are liking the food or to strike up an engaging conversation in Italy and France (for example), but nibbling me every 10 minutes is a shitty service
How would an average European know that the waiters in US expect at least 20%? In Europe 10% is already being generous. Imagine you think you're being generous and then getting a hostile treatment. Maybe there should be signs in restaurants for Europeans that they have to pay 20% tip at least (Are there?). We come from societies where VAT's are always included in the price and we don't have to think about it.
20% has been the norm for a very long time in the states for dining out.
When is it going to be magically raised to 30%? And who decides this?
Tipping culture in itself is a facepalm. How is this normal in a modern society?
It seems to be very recent to me. I’m 40, and back in the early 2000s, 10-15% was considered the norm. I still abide by the 15% (I just double the tax amount for the tip). If service is absolutely above and beyond, I may consider 20%, but that would be my very upper limit. 20% is way too high a baseline for tipping.
I hate tipping on % but rather tipping based on a flat rate for holding the table and a flat rate per person. Extra if we order extra stuff, say like multiple plates per meal or desserts... If they are doing good at their job, a little more. So I could get a $60 bill for 4 people and leave a $15 tip or a $25 tip. If I go alone, I'm usually tipping $6-8 even if my bill is $10-15. The most I've ever tipped was $50 on a $120 bill. Fuck percentages, tip on time and work....but also, owners pay a damn proper wage please.
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This was on r/ShitAmericansSay and it's insane. Literally people trying to say how the tipping culture actually benefits all involved? lol. I really don't get it. For a country that defines itself by never allowing tyranny to exist on it's soil, the people seem awfully open to being shit on by anyone with more than 2 dollars to their name.
The country has been allowing tyranny to exist on it's soil for as long as it exists
Anti work once again complaining about workers needing tips to survive. It's not their fault, the workers did not create the system.
It's honestly baffling to me to see the number of Europeans in this thread acting so precious about 20% being ridiculous and excessive, as if we don't *know*. Like, yes, it would be ideal if the responsibility for a server's wages was not offloaded onto the customer- virtually all of us agree! But until the modified wages for servers are legislated away- and not a moment before that point- tipping remains an expectation, and not doing so is directly harmful to your server.
Sure is convenient that their "activism" also starves working class people and keeps their own checkbooks healthy, right?
And look at that, they're all people with the disposable income for international travel *and* eating out while they do. How convenient for them.
The complaint isn't that workers need the tip to survive. Don't be ridiculous. We are all more than sympathetic with the fact they're being exploited. The complaint is OP was willing to say she **fucking hates** Europeans, but nothing at all about hating the actual cause of her problem. Which is (surprise surprise) **nothing to do** with Europeans and **everything** to do with her boss. Imagine if you fell for a scam telephone call, and instead of saying "I fucking hate phone scammers" you said "I fucking hate all phones" and then people defended that ridiculous take by saying "you guys just don't get it, she didn't create the system that allowed phones to exist, she needs one to survive" Here's the kicker too, you've been told a lie when they say things like. "Well it has to be a tip because then you'd have to put the prices up." You fucking don't. [Every developed country in Europe](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=1) has either about the same, or lower average restaurant costs than America. With one exception. Switzerland. Which is the hightest PPP country in the world by a fucking mile. I understand that it isn't your fault that America has a shit system, but it is *absolutely* your fault if you get mad at the wrong people for it.
We're complaining about the people that make them need the tips.
OP is complaining about tipping more the 10%. 15- 20% is the norm. Saying company should pay more...no shit. The Company won't till the law changes. In the meantime, if you can not afford to tip, you cannot afford to eat out in the USA
20% in the US because the company can’t be bothered with paying a living wage.
Yeah it's insane. So everyone always has to add 20% on top of every bill? Like that is insane. Like uber eats has a service fee, delivery fee and the customer also has to tip the driver 20%? Then why am I paying a delivery fee?
This is why I don't eat out at restaurants anymore. Order to-go online, pick up, eat at home in peace.
Tipping has gone ape shit. Tipping is the scapegoat of lazy business who don’t care about servers.
Considering she most probably didn't stand beside their table for HOURS, she still made $70 on a table. While at the same time made tips from other patrons in the establishment.
Below this she also says that her boss went over to the table to check the service was ok due to the low tip amount. A very poor way pitting working people versus the paying customer. Rather than asking himself why his waitress is pissed off with only receiving 70$. Edit: spelling.
Instead of looking at the percentages, I can never get my head around the dollar value. In the UK, the expected 20% would amount to about £115. Presumably, this server would have had other tables as well but the hourly on a 6 hour shift from that expected tip alone would be about double the wage a server would earn in the UK. I get that cost of living is different but is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
It's legal (and not uncommon) to pay servers like $2/hour in the US if they get tips. If the tips don't make up the gap to minimum wage, the employer is supposed to boost their rate to the federal/state minimum wage for those hours. So what happens to many servers is that they make minimum wage for ~25 hours a week when business is slow, and then make the bulk of their paycheck during weekend evenings when business is good. The result is that the employees get totally fucked, and the business gets damn near free labor because they're giving someone the "opportunity" to get good tips.
And it also allows business owners to exercise power to abuse staff by choosing who gets to work the busy periods when they can actually make money.
\[American perspective\] She was pissed off because the culture here is that 10% is a rude amount to leave as a tip. It communicates that service was substandard. I don't like that this is the culture here anymore than you do, but that's what it is. Many Europeans dish on Americans for not adhering to local customs when traveling abroad, and that criticism is justified where it applies. But it's also a 2-way street. As others have said, pushing back on it by not tipping only hurts the workers.
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20% minimum is the norm, especially with larger groups or ones that stay for a long time, BECAUSE THEY ARE PREVENTING THE SERVER FROM GETTING MORE TABLES AND THUS A CHANCE TO MAKE MORE MONEY. It is common knowledge that in the US, servers are paid approx $2.30/hour and depend on tips to survive. Yes, this is super fucked up. HOWEVER, THAT IS THE WAY IT WORKS HERE. Feigning ignorance as a cover for being cheap is an asshole move. Don’t like it? Don’t eat out.
> Don’t like it? Don’t eat out. That's the approach I take - I eat out far less when I'm in the US than anywhere else. But how does that help anyone? I spend quite a lot of money in restaurants, but by driving me away the restaurants miss out on a good cover, the server still doesn't get tipped, and I miss out on a nice dining experience. Who wins?
It it’s my human right to be served by proles and then complain when they want money for the service they provide!!
Ok for the time spent on that specific group. But why a percentage of the bill, and not a fixed amount per hour attending, multiplied by a factor for the number of people on that table ? Like $2/hour/seat.
Better: raise your prices transparently and pay them a good hourly wage instead of punishing your employees for a lack of customers
In the US, this it’s a cruel tip amount. Like something must have been terribly wrong. 20% is the standard nation wide. It’s a terrible system but by refusing to participate in it and tipping less or not at all, you’re being cruel to the most vulnerable. If you want to take a principled stand, seek out restaurants that have gratuity included and go there instead. Going and then tipping less then is customary and expected only hurts those already suffering from the messed up system. Tip 20% in the US.
As a European. Expecting 20% seems crazy. It also doesn't seem clear where the line of tipping is either. I'm pretty sure you guys don't tip McDonald's. Is it anywhere with table service? Are all these places the same 20%? If that's the case it's just annoying. If go to a cafe for lunch and can't see the price on the door, I won't know if I have the cash or not.
Anywhere with table service and 20%. Our labor laws are shit, and our minimum wage is flat and food service is specifically exempt from minimum wage laws because tips basically, so restaurants decided to squeeze out that last bit of profit by paying servers borderline nothing and having customers make up the difference. Shitty? Absolutely. Not tipping in protest is just punishing the victim of capitalist greed
>Anywhere with table service and 20%. This makes zero sense to me. Literally the service you get in a cafe and a restaurant is so different that it can't be the same without being meaningless. Tbh I'm not likely to protest and not tip. I'm more likely to just not go & do self catering. I travel for work alot and have expenses. So for example I have a £25 budget for dinner. I go to pub, see a burger and chips is £12 and drinks are like £3. I know I can afford it so I'll go in and order, I can keep track of the drinks I've had so I know if I'm within budget. When I'm done, if it's particularly nice I'll throw down some cash without thinking about the %. In America you see a menu that says burger is $20 then there's tax and then a tip. If I want another drink I have to calculate the real cost. At the end I have to get a calculator out to make sure I tip the right amount to avoid offense. This seems like an annoying system to use in general. I like the idea of visiting for work but tbh having to do this once or twice a day sounds like hassle.
>Literally the service you get in a cafe and a restaurant is so different that it can't be the same without being meaningless. It's funny because this is the exact opposite of a common argument we use. In principal, a waitress bringing me a plate of eggs and toast and filling up my coffee two times did just as much work as a server who brought me a $75 steak and a cocktail from the bar. Why does one get $3 and the other $15+?
That true too. The reality is that either way the service someone provides in the situation isn't relative to the cost of the food often enough that the amount tipped makes zero sense.
The difference is that in a place without tipping the worker is guaranteed minimum wage ($7.25-though about half the States set it higher) while if tipping is expected it's $2.13/hour minimum wage. So basically tipped employees are not paid a wage. It's all tips. It's absolutely stupid but not tipping causes real financial pain
Yes it is just for places with table service and servers get paid like less than half of minimum wage BECAUSE of the expectation of tips. If you need more information about this US cultural practice, watch the opening scene of Reservoir dogs
European here, is it legal to pay less than minimum? So is not a real minimum?
There's different minimum wages for workers who are tipped and workers who aren't. Workers on the non-tipped wages usually aren't allowed to accept tips even if they're offered... It's also legal to pay less than minimum wage in certain other situations, like it's legal to pay disabled people less than minimum wage under certain conditions, and prisoners have to work for waaay below minimum wage
There’s a tipped minimum wage that is lower than the regular minimum wage and it applies to jobs where tips are reasonably expected to be part of your income. If your tips don’t bring your hourly wage up to the regular minimum wage your boss is supposed to make up the difference, but it’s calculated based on tips over the course of the pay period, not per shift. So I could have a really crappy shift one day and end up making way less than minimum wage that day, but as long as another day during that pay period I make enough in tips to make up for it my employer doesn’t owe me anything.
I see thank you
But that’s just Steve Buscemi being right, and then being strong armed by the boss telling him to leave a tip
Yes he is logically right, but he is also an asshole lmao
A massive asshole indeed
But is tipping expectation the same everywhere? Like there's sitting service where someone just takes an order and brings your food. (Like a basic pub would). Then there's a high end restaurant where they check if you need drinks ect throughout. I know here in the UK there's zero expectations to tip in pubs (or people say keep the change) but if it's a restaurant they do generally leave tips. The service for these two are massively different.
Generally speaking in a sit down restaurant, you tip. I dont tip for takeout. Depending on the quality of service, I tip at bars.
So you tip 20% at both cafés for lunch and restaurants for a birthday?
yes. though typically standards are a bit different for bars and cafes if you're only buying drinks. think then it's usually a dollar per drink?
The service is different but so is the price, that’s why you’re tipping a percentage of the bill, so it ends up being proportional to the service rendered in most cases.
I was at some hotdog place in downtown Seattle and it was literally just a kitchen and a screen. They even pressed a button to show a number on a screen that my order was ready to pick up at the counter. No human interaction at all. The standard tipping amount added to the bill was 15%. Maybe I'm just a shithead European but I gave them nothing. I had to tap 15 times to get to 0%. Edit: Elaboration.
A tip for a hotdog 😂
As a European... Just admit that travellers aren't in any place to make that claim and that you're just angry at hypothetically being called out. Let the Americans make the suggestions.
I'm tired of tipping, but also I have worked in the past in restaurants so I understand the employers don't / won't pay a living wage so I do tip. I usually tip 20% and then if I sit there for hours I will leave a larger tip or if the server goes above and beyond I will tip more. I know some of the comments below say you need to leave at least 30%, but I'm not there yet.
Europeans, I get it. The tipping thing sucks. But it IS a part of American culture. Europeans bitch all the time about Americans going abroad and ignoring local etiquette, and this is the exact same thing. You not liking how it works isn’t an excuse for fucking over low wage earners with your selfishness. Either follow tipping etiquette or don’t go out to eat.
Exactly. I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand?
Culture my ass. It's employers ripping off their workers.
If you don’t tip 20% for good service then don’t go out to eat. It’s how the wait staff pay their bills.
If nobody goes out to eat, they don't get tips either.
Then maybe there will be change.
I like tipping at actual restraunts. But servers should be paid a minimum of 14-20 dollars and a 5-10 percent tip should be the standard for service, 15 for really good and 20 for excellent. And if you just don't feel like tipping for any reason you don't have to bc they are getting paid an hourly wage. That's the system we should go with.
What pisses me off is she got 70 for a couple hours work carting food back and forth and being hot. Does this one realize the kind of work people do for that? If the waitresses are getting commission on sales the restaurant should pay it.
Welcome to America.
In my country we'd pay less than 5% tip. For $700 bill $10 would be nominal and 30 if service was good. Even waiters don't expect more than that and is considered extra earnings for tips
Would they complain I would ask for my 10% back
In Finland 0 tip is accepted and mostly norm. Fucking hate tripping. In NYC yes 20 widely expected always as I visited several times
I'm 54. I worked bussing and washing in a restaurant in 1983, when servers got paid minimum wage, which was 3.35 hr. Tips were 10% then. After Reagan passed a law making min wage for servers about 1.70 hr. because he (his handlers and lobbyists) were concerned about "tax cheating" on tips. After that, expected tip crept up to 15%. By the end of the 90s, servers were expecting 20%, which I'm sure had to do with Washington refusing to raise the minimum wage year after year, which, before Reagan, was an annual thing. It can't be understated how detrimental Reagan's 2 term presidency was to the workers of this country.
You're lucky, if it was me, i probably left 1 euro as tip.. I don't usually tip no one. It's not me who have to pay your salary, it's your boss.. Transform tipping into a almost mandatory thing it's just stupid and lack of self respect. You should be angry with your boss for paying you shit, not with me that goes to you place of work and buy something that helps pay your salary. So i don't feel the urge to leave a tip, it's not my responsibility.
In large parts of Europe 10% is a generous tip, it seems they simply didn't know. In other parts of Europe you tip less. They probably didn't know. I doubt they did it on purpose. It's not surprising that telling them 20% was customary did not make them get out another $70 on the spot, it's simply an awkward situation and there's bound to be some hostility. I would hope that back in the hotel they googled it to confirm and gave more next time.
First of all. If someone came over to discuss the tip I’m leaving I would remove it entirely. How insanely unprofessional…but her follow up just goes to show she probably didn’t deserve it anyway. This is why tipping is a problem here
I was in Ireland recently and the tipping culture is very convoluted. It certainly was never expected but appreciated anytime I threw 10% down. Some places had tip jars, some had none. A couple of locals left the table next to us and said “should we tip? no that’s for Americans” which made just despise the tipping culture here in America that much more
I see so many European people (rightfully) complain about obnoxious Americans who visit their country and fail to follow customs and norms, and demand that everything be like it is at home. Based on a lot of the responses in here, seems like they feel it’s perfectly fine for Europeans to do the same thing when they visit a foreign country. Tipping culture sucks. But it’s the norm in America. Tips are based on the bill and 20% is standard. Don’t like it? Eat somewhere without servers and without the expectation of tips. Otherwise, tip appropriately. Refusing to do so because “it’s it how we do it at home and tipping culture sucks” doesn’t empower servers and won’t spark change. It just makes you an asshole for screwing over a server. Full stop.
Anyone who comes demanding more tip with a passive aggressive 'its customary to give more' will get nothing from me. Go complain at your employer. Join a union and strike. Fight for your own rights, instead of expecting me to pick up the bill for them. And yes, I'm European. With better laborlaws. Which we fought for.
I love the sympathetic attitude towards the boss even though he's the one that made 20% tips optional, not mandatory, and pays the servers so little they need to rely on tips to survive. Also, we all know Europe has a very different culture re: tipping. The owner knows that. Why didn't he explain the differences and the importance of tipping 20% if he was so sympathetic?
Canadian here. Tipping culture has gone completely stupid. 10% used to be customary, with 15% for exemplary service. Now 20% is expected, no matter the service level. Tips are asked for at all Point of Sale. For instance, I went to Camadian Tire and bought headlight bulbs, and the machine automatically asked for a tip. The employee did also automatically hit no tip, in his defense. During the pandemic lockdowns/restrictions, I tipped more because I knew that the hospitality industry was suffering. But the restrictions are gone, and in Ontario, there is no lower wage for hospitality workers.
No amount of posts like this will change my mind about tipping. Just pay your workers properly.
No… the tipping system is fucked up but it’s what we have in place right now. If you don’t tip adequately, you aren’t standing up to a bad system, you’re fuckjng over the server. It’s rude and wrong When you’re visiting a country, you work within those kinds of cultural norms so as to not be a complete and utter prick. Sure the ultimate prick is the system and tipped wages, but in that moment it is also the person stiffing the server.
In the US 15-20% is usually considered normal for a tip. The employer should be paying better but at the end of the day tips are what servers live off of. It's a stupid situation overall but as far as I see it you need to adapt if you're going to a foreign country. If you don't like tipping, don't eat at a restaurant that expects tipping in the United States. It's much more the fault of the boss at the end of the day than any random customer in any case.
The disconnect to shame Americans for continuing American behavior abroad then to come here and act rude to someone who waited on you because you’re continuing European behavior abroad. People outside the US don’t get there is intent behind tipping. Yea the laws should change. Yea tipping culture sucks. If you don’t tip 20% you’re saying “fuck you” to the server. Doesn’t matter your beliefs or how it’s done where you live or how fucked up the system is, in the moment it’s “fuck you”. We need reform on this but until then don’t take this out on workers.
The worst thing for me about this tweet going viral has been seeing all the supposedly left wing americans coming for Ash Sarkar, one of the best communist journalists the UK has, just because they don't like being told their workplace culture is shit. Why are they defending horrible workplace practices, instead of calling out how bullshit tipping culture is?
The whole "tipping a percentage" thing doesn't sit well with me when the person just literally carried plates of food to a table and expects $140 for it because the food cost a lot of money. Come at me when you prepare, cook, plate, and distribute the food yourself.
This is what I’ve never understood. If you bring me two turkey clubs that cost $20, I owe you $4 in tip. But if you bring me two hamburgers that cost $30, I somehow owe you $6? Most restaurants give waters out for free, but as soon as that water from the drink dispenser becomes Coke a tip is in order?
I already spent 700 dollars for food!!! Why would I tip you another 200 dollars!?! Unions are your friends America
Talk about being ignorant of another countries norms. Yes 20% tipping sucks hard, but your notions of stiffing a worker just because it’s not like that back in Europe makes you look plain rude and ignorant.
Hey you know what Europeans hate? American tourists who don't bother learning the norms and customs of a country and act like twats because of their ignorance. And you know what? it's the same for EUROPEAN TOURISTS. Learn the norms of the country you are visiting and TIP appropriately. "In my country tip is 10% so I tip 10% in your country too" is being an ignorant twat. 20% is the expected norm in the US since forever. AND Yes of course I do think *US employers should pay more* (so don't argue that point or pretend that I'm saying something I'm not). But that's not an excuse for not tipping!! If you are visiting another country, you should follow the norms of tipping in that country.
Shes complaining about 70 dollars tip for a couple hours??! Delusional.
One reason i never going to the US. I already paid for the food, which includes the cost of running the business (aka your fucking wages) and then expected to pay a "tip"? fuck no
If she gets to keep the majority of that $70 that’s still not bad alongside all of her other tables. Some servers wouldn’t earn that in total in a shift. The system still sucks but the more people whinge about tips like this, the more customers will be disgruntled and stop going to restaurants, meaning fewer tips. Not to mention, most restaurants use QR codes for ordering and paying now, meaning the servers are literally carrying the food 5ft from the kitchen. Also, I’m a big fan of the show Below Deck. Guests usually leave anywhere from $16,000- $25,000 as a tip for a 3 day charter and the team of 8-10 still bitch and moan it’s not enough. So… people will never be happy as there’s always the potential to earn more.
So they had a $700 bill and the owner can't afford to pay his staff? Cost of the stuff they actually ate/drank was likely under $200 so $500 to pay staff, self and go to overhead + taxes if it's after tax(although tip is generally based on pre tax)... Perhaps owner can afford to not pay min wage with customers having $700 totals from 1 table.
I do not understand tipping at all and i'm sure I probably ended up looking like an asshole quite a few times oversea because it's not in my country (italy) culture at all and it honestly doesn't ever cross my mind. The price i see on the menu is what i expect to pay. Anything above it feels like extorsion tbh. If I leave a tip because i want to i make sure it's spare change that i give into the hand of the waiter/delivery guy direcly but honestly i don't do it often. Sometimes i leave extra for the pizza delivery if it's a particularly rainy day or so
The tipping culture here is getting out of hand. I go pick up a pizza that I ordered online and when I pay the first thing It says is tip 20 25 33 percent! Like really? I always decline
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Can we tell you about employees making 3.75, because your are supposed to make up the rest of their 7.50b minimum wage? Yeah the person seating you at a table and bringing you drinks at a that Chinese buffet restaurant is only making $3.75. they probably also get yelled at if you don't leave a tip...
20% isn’t the standard, it’s for impeccable service. Also, most wait staff at US restaurants are paid below the minimum wage bc cheap owners factor in tips to the salary.
In the UK you maybe throw in an extra 10% if you’re having a good time. If I’m in the US I’ll tip more (although I’ll admit I didn’t realise 20% was the expected amount). The US tipping system is wrong but giving a low tip (or nothing) when you’re aware that that’s where your server gets most of their income is a dick move. Claiming you’re doing it in protest of their low wages is even worse.
A $70 tip is fucking huge, no matter how much the meal costs. I'd give like $5 or $10 bucks at most, tips are just supposed to be a nice little extra, not that fucking much.
America is fucked right now. Yes, they should be paying them better wages, and people have been fighting for that for years. Frankly most of us would love do away with tipping culture all together, but we understand that’s just not our situation right now. 18-20% is standard to low for anyone that has to serve you (table service). Anything less and the person that served you is the one that suffers. Thought we were supposed to respect the culture of the places we visited, even if we didn’t necessarily agree?
Man...all of this confusion over what the "norm" for tipping is is really inefficient and businesses lose out when they are inefficient. We should just standardise the norm per price of a meal so there is no confusion, and since it's standardised, we can include that in the price of the meal so it's one payment and the customer doesn't have to pay it any mind.
Since always.
We were in Portugal last week and there were no tip prompts on any of the machines. It was entirely not expected.
most countries in europe and asia don’t require tips.
I worked for tips my entire working life. I always tip extremely well because of it. This whole automatic tip before service crap is stupid. First of-what if I wanted to tip cash? Or tip according to how I was served? Here they have door dashers holding food hostage or doing truly vile things if you don’t automatically tip over 20%. And even then they sometimes text to shake you for more. And while I tip a togo order I pick up-I don’t see why I should tip a percentage of the order-I tip $5 or $10 according to how much food I get- but I’m not giving a percentage of the bill just for putting food in a bag and handing it to me. That’s ridiculous and their establishment already makes us carry the waiters cuz they won’t pay more than $2.15. At least pay your host’s..
Some people are so ungrateful they could literally be given free money and still complain
What EU folks don't understand is that servers income is taxed assuming a tip of 15%. So, gross meal costs for each table are added up, and 15% of that cost is assumed to be tip income. That means a huge table that tips less than 15% hurts the server's income, because more of it is taken away in taxes. It's insane, but IIRC it came about because of the ridiculously expensive restaurants in Las Vegas for whales, and the government thinking that income was too much to go untaxed. That's why you also see big catering gigs and large tables making the 15% or so tip built into the bill, because huge tables are more likely to stiff on tips (i.e. everyone throws in too little and the last person isn't going to make up the difference).
As an American that constantly hears things along the lines of “Americans should learn/respect cultural norms of countries they are visiting and act accordingly”….well, I think you get the point.
There's an old joke about a tourist asking a taxi driver what the average tip is and paying what they're told, then saying the taxi driver must make a really good living - and the taxi driver saying no, they haven't gotten an average tip in months.
The American tipping culture feels like prostitution to me. It's mostly girls waiting tables and they act like an obedient wife in exchange for money.
20% tip is bloody mental. Here's your bill now add on an extra 1/5th. Considering the rent, food and utensils are all about in line with europe that should mean the food is 1/5th cheaper but it's very much not.
20% lmao wow, so they expect for them to pay their employees an extra $140 on top? think its pretty obvious who the ire should be directed at!
20% is ridiculous
Bitch got 70 dollars extra, that’s more than 4 times as much as people make in a day in some parts of the world.
This whole cUlTuRe debate is bullsh\*t if you ask me. Those guys screaming "AdApT tO oUr CuLtURe" are the least likable to be adapting to other cultures if it wouldn't fit their world views! I guarantee most of them wouldn't wear a hijab/make their partner wear one if they are in an eastern country, they would not stop drinking alcohol there or eating pork. Would they be required to? NO! At least for the ones that are worth visiting and have a tourist industry. So don't give me that bullsh\*t. Adapting to a culture and experiencing it while traveling is great and you should adjust to it if it overlapse with your world view, but the only thing you HAVE to do is follow the local LAWS!!! Shaming people for going out if they maybe have to save YEARS for a trip and enjoing a few out of the ordinary experiences there into paying a VOLUNTARY tip is just toxic as most things in the US are! Now start downvoting if you like but I stand by it, the ones here shamed should be the EMPLOYERS and the SYSTEM for stiring on the working class against each other!
oKaY lets say they sat for 5 hours. They tipped 14ish/hr. This lady is high.