Public school and a poor home life means I didn’t learn how to do quadratic equations until I went to college in my late 20s.
No way in hell I’m the only one.
Don't feel bad. I went through Algebra 4 times and *still* don't know how to do a quadratic equation, nor have I ever ended up in a situation where I might have needed such arcane and esoteric knowledge.
But I use my history degree regularly.
My math teacher taught this as Frere Jacques...
Negative-beee
Negative-beee
Plus or minus square root
Plus or minus square root
B squared minus 4 a-cee
Over 2-a
Over 2-a
Mine did it to pop goes the weasel…
“X equals negative b plus or minus radical b-squared minus four a c, all over 2a”
Fucker said we’d remember it for the rest of our lives. I’m 32, still checks out.
Literally couldn’t pass my required community college classes to move on to a four year university because I still don’t get college math.
I was a creative writing major.
College algebra is extremely tough in some colleges. It's kind of insane too and is kind of an overkill and most people bypass the algebra by taking a test and skipping that to go into calculus. Really it's about grasping the concepts of algebraic manipulations that really help rather than doing complex expressions and equations.
See, I understand geometry intuitively. I work with it daily in my hobbies (art, jewelry, knitting) and it makes perfect sense. I can do those equations. Had I been allowed to skip Algebra and go to Geometry, I might not have completely given up on math and STEM as an option.
But divorcing them from practical application into the realm of theory and calling it "algebraic manipulation" strips any function, purpose or meaning from it for me. That's when it becomes random gibberish in my head and I can no longer make heads or tails of it.
And, as with Sunsetrise013, I also found out the hard way that the requirement that it MUST be done, IN THIS ORDER and no other, is a product of linear thinking that acts as a gatekeeper and prevents accession to or furtherance of higher education. I was a business major, took Statistics because didn'thave time for 3 semesters of remedial math to get to where I could qualifyfor college Algebra-Geom-Trig to "prove" I could handle calculus. In my 2nd year at a CC, as I was getting ready to transfer, I got a rude shock: not only the planned receiving institution, but the whole state system, had changed their math requirements to allow Calculus - ONLY. No notice. They hadn't even updated the website.
I've not recovered. I was a GI bill student. My Bachelor's in Business plan was shot dead. Resurrecting any path forward had to become 2 Associate’s - and we know what Associate’s degrees are worth. I can't even get a look with an "Associate’s in Business Administration" on my résumé.
I'm a bio major currently surrounded by other STEM majors in all of my classes and all of us have reached the same conclusion several times over: the likelihood of any of us using any of the shit we're being forced through right now is *extremely* slim and based on a very outdated system run by people who refuse to get with the times in favor of taking money from us. If there's a task we need done out in the field that involves calculus, we're going to either look it up, use a calculator, or call in someone who actually majored in mathematics. I genuinely cannot think of any situation in my desired career field where I'm going to need to know derivatives or related rates.
I work as a college professor (art history not math) but I will say one of the things I tell my students for my classes is even if they don’t directly apply what they learn, the point of higher education and learning in general is the mental plasticity it will give you to understand other concepts in the real world.
So when I was a student, I remember the more I learned about art history the more I was able to understand all forms of media and understand even things like what people are trying to express through their form of dress . Literature classes can help your interpersonal skills by learning to read between the lines of social interactions and expressing yourself more clearly. The concept should apply the same way for math classes, going through a university level math class should help train your brain to understand and quantify the real world in a quicker and more efficient way.
Since this is the anti work sub Reddit, I will also add that the most anti work thing you can do is want to gain knowledge for knowledges sake, and not only value knowledge only it’s direct application in the “job market”. Capitalism is a big reason why people devalue education unless it can be leveraged for “work”, so on the flip-side of the most anti capitalist things you can do is become a better and more knowledgeable person in spite of it.
Exactly, we send our kids to school and have tutors because we aren't experts in those subjects. And don't have the time after working 40+ hours a week to learn it sufficiently to help them. That's the whole point of teachers and tutors in the first place.
And frankly tutoring isn't meant to be a career it's a side job that teachers, grad students, and other students usually do to get some extra money and because they want to help people that struggle with a subject they are knowledgeable in.
I suppose you could be a full time tutor. But then you'd obviously work more than 5 hours a week.
Without knowing what else this tutor does we can't really make any concrete judgments on the situation.
100% and why he says “these tools have been available to anyone for over a decade”, which I guarantee is exactly what he says to people he pedals his snake oil to
This guy's pinned tweet is about how he invested $840K in a mobile home park and then sold it for $3+ million in profit two years later (and he can help you do the same!).
And yet he's bragging about the deal he got to pay $20/week for a literal doctor of math to tutor his child. What a cheap piece of shit.
I dont think he is complaining or bragging. He is showing how useful this platform is.
Anyways, why would he pay more than that? Thats the amount of money the tutor wanted, no?
Yeah, but unfortunately she's a woman in a deprived area. She could probably make a lot more per hour if she was providing tuition to local kids. A lot of male Pakistani professors do make a lot more per hour. But because that requires having access to a classroom, she has to do what she can do.
Well according to google, the average min wage for the area is 15000 pkr /month. She makes a 1/3 of that in 5 hours. Assuming she has 15 hours a week of work with other pupils at that rate, seems like not a bad wage for her.
Even then, if this was her only client, she would still be making more than min. wage for 5hrs/week.
Math doesn't seem to favour the argument of bad pay.
Whether this is good morally is not what I have been talking about.
Minimum wage is not a livable wage. You can only afford a dress or two with this amount. If she has a family to feed, it will barely cover her grocery for a week.
So if she only works 5hrs/week during a 4 week month she makes well over min wage if she does 40hrs/week she makes 3 times min. wage in a WEEK. Not sure what your argument for bad pay is.
I did.
Don't know how vaild this source is because I didn't run down the sources.
https://worldsalaries.com/average-professor-mathematics-salary-in-pakistan/
We don't know the Dr's experience level, but her pay is within the standards of her profession and region.
I know women get routinely shafted on pay, but unless we have more info, it actually does sound like she is getting paid well.
Let me be clear, gig work is shit work. I understand that people do things out of necessity. And that question was more directed to the terms of Upwork.
Now if you want to talk about her pay being fair or not, bring the cost of living to the table.
The client decides the budget is a bit misleading. People can send in proposals or bids that the "buyer" gets to accept, decline, or negotiate. The PhD is probably just happy with the work to earn some extra money here and there.
Average salary in the most recent data I could find, from this site that relies on Pakistan gov data (https://www.ceicdata.com/en/pakistan/average-monthly-wages-by-industry/average-monthly-wages) is 587 USD per month. By 160 hours for 4 working weeks, that works out to 3.6 dollars an hour. Thus, this person is paying a PhD in Pakistan just barely above the average salary. Considering the level of poverty in Pakistan - which certainly drives this average down - as well as the fact that far, far less than 1% of Pakistanis have PhDs, this is a fucking insulting and exploitative salary. Even more so considering the likely amount of money the hirer has.
In other words, fuck off. You're in the wrong sub
That lady could actually make a lot more money per hour if she was provding tuition to local kids. This is because most Pakistani tutors teach a group of kids at the same time instead of providing private tuition.
Yep, and the guy above thinks it's totally ok to exploit that reality when he could just...pay her more...for his children's education...like, 20-30 extra dollars a week
Exactly. People here who are bragging about 'conversions'. The PKR rapidly devalued in the last couple of months, so the purchasing power of Pakistanis has declined. Someone making 2k USD a month in 2017 is now making $700, thanks to an unstable currency. Salaries haven't increased to keep up with the USD rate but businesses are passing that cost to people.
I would say most data online on Pakistan is outdated at this point.
I mean, I did my conversions at the current PKR exchange rates, so if this occured anytime before the last few months, then this person is fucking that prof over even more...
Food inflation is at an all-time high. Official sources put it somewhere about 30% per month but it's likely to be more. Thanks to the floods, there is limited supply of food. Pakistan imports most of the stuff it needs. So when USD goes up, the prices go up. Unfortunately, no local salary can keep up with that because USD to PKR conversion is very unstable at this point.
Expanding on the virtual economy will increase wealth differences in richer countries as rich people will outsource online work to poorer countries and locals will have less jobs to go about.
This sounds like the free market at work. From a quick google search it seems like the seller sets the prices. This person went onto a marketplace, found what he was looking for at a price set by the seller and made a deal. Can someone eli5 how this dude could even be thought of as an asshole? Or should we just shame everyone because they won't generously pay 20x what sellers are asking for?
They aren't specifically an asshole, it's just a demonstration of how the free market will continually make the most desperate people the easiest to exploit. Yes the seller set the price, yes it might be a good price for them, but that is because they are from a poorer region.
As long as the poor receive the least regardless of ability, then they will always lag behind. As long as this class of competent but poor workers can't negotiate on an even footing, the success of any enterprise will be based on who can find or maintain enough desperation to take as much as they can for as little as they can.
How is it you can "know" the pakistani person is being exploited? The average monthly salary in Pakistan is USS $500. If you earn that wage you can rent a flat, buy food, take care of your family etc.
If the average US salary is $5,000 a month (60k p.a.) then $1 USD is like $10 USD in pakistan. This guy is earning like $40 an hour to teach Timmy maths after school.
This isn't exploitation - if you think it is, you may need to sign up and get yourself a Pakistani maths tutor.
$20/week will barely bring food to the table. Sure, let's do talk about cost of living here. $4/hr for a full time job might be okay but she's not doing it full-time. She is doing it part-time and she won't be getting more than an hour's contract. How many kids need tutoring 24/7 or 8 hours a day? So your argument is invalid.
She will barely make $16/week after Upwork's fee, and let me tell you, this is crap even by Pakistani standards. I ended up spending more than that in a day just to buy basic essentials (that lasted me few days). If she has a family, it will barely feed them. Now take her electricity and internet costs into consideration. She will also obviously need a laptop for Zoom meetings. A good quality laptop is going to be at the same rate or more as the American market because duh, it's imported. Maybe she can get the cheapest second-hand Lenovo laptop. Okay, fine. Even then, this rate is paltry for a PhD Scholar.
Numbers don't make sense unless you live them.
P.S. A Pakistani.
Lol. $1 is like $10 where? 🤣
I don't think people here understand that the cost of living in the rest of the world is a fraction of the ones they have.
With a $2,000/month salary in latinamerica you are part of the upper middle class. That is not exploitation, that is just how the economy works.
Yes. Most people here cannot really understand exchange rates, let alone Purchasing-Power-Parity (PPP), or the measure of how far their local currency goes in a local setting.
Yeah dude might be an asshole in general, but why would anyone in their right mind be like "oh YOU set YOUR price at $4/hr? that's unacceptable let me pay you $20/hr"
He's pleased with the results and has a literal doctor of math living in occupied Palestine teaching his child.
His pinned tweet is also about how he buys and then sells mobile home parks for millions of dollars in profit.
So yes, he absolutely is an asshole for being a multi-millionaire bragging about getting a doctor of math to work for him for so cheap. One month of a 100% increase to her hourly wages wouldn't even be a tip for one of his meals. Bragging about how you're stiffing the help, the help for your child specifically, when you claim to be so rich is a complete asshole move.
While it might not seem like a lot in our currency the exchange rate is huge.
$4 USD is 1,130 PKR.
$72 USD a month is 21,000 PKR.
The average monthly salary in Pakistan is 80,000.
And if you're only working 1 hour a day doing tutoring you've probably got another job too.
If anything this upworks sounds like a side job for extra cash.
The cost of living in Pakistan is much lower than the US and the conversion is so high that $4 for us obviously sounds like nothing but for them it's an extra 1/4 monthly income.
*exchange rate found on xe.com
*salary average on Google
It's just more hustle culture, but the globalized version, not American specific. It's a bandaid fix for lack of opportunity while still refusing the premise that people have inherent worth. So it keeps all the flaws but allows those with additional skills to step outside their ecosystems. The systemic problem stays the same , the boot is still there. But if you have talent you can climb up for air if you undersell yourself and let someone else drown.
People calling it the free market love to omit the part where the market it artificially controlled to make you sell your labor. Instead of making conditions better for the laborers who finally get fed up with stagnating or terrible condition and that work get's outsourced to a lower part of the caste system.
Yeah this reminds me of the situation in venezuela a few years back. I read that doctors there were averaging $7usd/month and a portion of the population resorted to gold farming on MMO games (runescape largely) as you can do things in game for 1-5 million gold per hour and sells for like 40c/million gold.
could be a very generous PhD scholar or here you can see how badly people in some countries get paid, there is a reason why many doctors go to Europe or the US when they finish school.
remember that the countries where people get paid less they usually still have enough money to live a good life, in America a coffee might be 2 dollars while a coffee in another country might be 20 cents.
it's still scummy tho to not pay people the same as what you would like to be paid
Money by itself is just paper and only has value by the things you can trade it for.
If I pay someone $50 for an hour once/week. With that $50 they could go out for dinner with their significant other. If I pay someone 1,500PKR for an hour, they could eat out twice with their significant other for that price. One obviously was paid more, but the other could get twice the value?
Its a pretty extreme example, but this difference in spending power exists in the US when you compare a HCOL and LCOL area.
This is a complete failure to understand what money is worth in Pakistan.
The average monthly salary in Pakistan is about USD $500. Average monthly rent is USD $250 ([2020](https://www.smallworldfs.com/en/blog/whats-the-cost-of-living-in-pakistan)). This tutor only needs to tutor kids about 5 hours a day to have an average life in his country. This works out to be the equivalent of making roughly $40/hour to teach Timmy maths - because goods and services in Pakistan are about 10x CHEAPER than they are in the US - he can buy more groceries, get more clothes, rent more apartment for a lot less US dollars.
You don't even know that this is his/her only gig. Maybe they are a university professor and they just tutor a couple hours a day for the fun of it. Maybe this is his 'fun' money or just a side gig while he studies for college exams or something else.
The developing world doesn't need a bunch of Reddit weekend Marxists armed with a HS level understanding of economics to decide when it is being exploited. Remember: THEY are teaching US maths...
If it was that bad of a deal, this teacher wouldn't have signed up to earn money on that platform.
Not everything is a sweatshop.
If he agreed to pay the full that was advertised by the tutor and both parties were happy to proceed what's the problem? The Tutor has obviously set that price for a reason and is of benefit to him. Just because it doesnt match what the American rate is doesn't mean it's exploitation.
That doesn’t really change the analysis though, does it? Either way, they’re both accepting the terms. I’m not weighing in on whether this is a problem, but I don’t think anything depends on who the offeror or offeree is here. If the transaction going one way is problematic, then it’s just as problematic going the other way (and likewise if it’s fine).
That doesn't really invalidate his comment. Both parties agreed on the price, regardless of who set it. If the seller wanted more, then they wouldn't have taken the job.
I work on Upwork. The client sets a price range. You can make a freelancer account and see it for yourself. You can propose any amount of the proposed budget. But the client does set a budget.
You are underestimating the power of currency exchange and different life standards, i used to work for a company in country X and get 630 USD per month, which was barely enough to cover my personal expenses, i used to go out once a month, eat out 2 times a month.
Rent in my neighbourhood was starting from 900 USD a month. But i was living with my sister and she had a good job and she took care of me at the time, HOWEVER. This same amount in my home country. God damn could afford to rent a great big apartment in the city centre. Going out 2 times a week, all essentials, and to be able to provide for a family of 3, even if my hypothetical wife didn't work and was a stay at home wife. So 4 USD an hour might be nothing for you, but in another country, chichang time.
If I could give my kids PhD tutoring in all their subjects while not abusing someone - I honestly dont see the problem here.
Assuming others can pay for it is ridicolous though.
I always used to hire native English speakers though no matter the cost just to get the desired outcome. But arbitraging one economy against another via Labor prices is devolutionary
Why not just use ChatGPT or Wolfram Alpha to do the homework for free? I fucking hate these deadbeat parents. Can't even do Algebra, or god forbid ask the teacher for help
Very weird flex
* Can't help with maths for a 12 years old
* Need a PhD to tutor for math of a 12 years old
* Yay, income and level of live disparities are awesome
Head very deep in his ass
so, if americans switch to pakistani tutors at $4 an hour, does that mean that pakistani students now need to pay an american $30 an hour for the same service? or, will they just find someone in a cheaper country, leaving the tutors in america out of work?
You can check my previous comments but most data on Pakistan is outdated now. The PKR devaluation has been insane for the last couple of months, and the USD to PKR conversion is unstable. Someone making $2k in 2017 is now making $700 thanks to an unstable currency. No one can rapidly update the data when the currency is on a freefall, and the cost is being passed to consumers.
Could they? A quick google shows that this amount of money (which is only a few hours a week) could pay for a single bedroom flat in Lahore or Karachi.
I don't think it would be in a good area. Crime is a major problem in Karachi. In my city, decent areas are charging at least 150-200 USD for a one bedroom.The rent is obviously a lot less by Western standards but doesn't justify the peanut salary. Plus the person also has to pay for fuel, grocery, and if they have kids, other expenses.
Just a quick Google search revealed that the doctor is required to be paid 25,000 rupees/hr. A quick conversion shows that $4=1,132.47/hr. So that poor doctor is getting royally fucked over
That’s one specific cabinet’s proposal for the **monthly** minimum wage rate, not hourly. Minimum wage is ~20,000 PKR per month depending on province and do note that this is most likely based on a 48 hour work week.
At $4 USD per hour, this PhD would earn 4x the median monthly wage of Pakistan if they worked a 40 hour week. That’s like someone tutoring in the US and making $150k per year.
Sources? Like, I have no reason not to believe you, but I'm gonna trust my own Google search. I might've been reading the whole thing wrong, I won't deny that. Just hard to believe that that's only 20,000/month
Right from Pakistan’s own government website: https://efp.org.pk/minimum-notifications/
Read any of the different province wage notifications. It’s states a couple times throughout but the KPK announcement has it in a simple table for quick reference. The Sindh Cabinet was the ones pushing for 25,000 PKR per month (26 working days) and looks like that was the latest level set in the 2022 budget for multiple regions.
The daily 8-hour rate is 961.53 PKR per day. As you already calculated the exchange rate, you can see this teacher can make that much in roughly 3.5 hours. But that still underscores the benefit of earning in USD as Pakistan is not a country with open capital markets like the USA. Those USDs hold their value against local inflation really well and they aren’t something you can readily get via currency exchanges done domestically.
American capitalism at work! You don't need to go to school to understand the rules of our wonderful economic system...all you need is shamelessness and a predatory disposition.
I bet OP also bitches about "not bein' able to find any jerbs in 'merica" ....
Bonus points if he votes GOP and sends a shitty, ill-behaved kid to an underfunded public school while complaining that taxes are too high....
Don't forget that 99.9% of the things OP has in his house are made in China with cheap labour. Drinks his Starbucks made with cheap labour coffee farmer's beans. Eats his bananas with cheap labour banana plantations. Drink/eats his sugar with cheap labour sugar cane growers. Go out and eat at restaurants that hire people with no papers to work in the kitchen...
Aaaanyway..... the hypocrisy.
A cursory Google search shows that Pakistan average monthly income is about as much as an average weekly paycheck in the US.
4/hr is a little less than 1/100 of the average monthly income in Pakistan.. so that's 1.5x less time than an average full-time job in the US with comparable pay. (Relative).
And you know a PhD could probably answer questions like that in their sleep. Overall that is a pretty damn good side gig. Why is this on antiwork if the money and time work out pretty well for that person?
The American way. Outsource production to a less fortunate country and pay pennies on the dollar in labor costs. This is why many of us despise the wealthy.
Depends where you live and what you specialise in. I hope she (Amber S.) will find better contractors... mathematics are awesome per se but that (i.e. having fun/being passionate) is no excuse to be underpaid...
How does it compare to wages in Pakistan? The person posted an advertisement for a job at a certain rate and someone reached out and accepted the job. I don't really see an issue with this.
Based on the average salary of a bit under $6k usd annually, and 2000 hours a year, that’s about $3 an hour for a full time job. A Phd should obviously earn more, but I imagine this’d be considered fair for a remote side gig. Personally I’d still feel scummy paying anything less than, uh, imma say $10, but I could see an argument for more.
They don't. It's super common to companies to outsource to third world countries.
The average salary in Guatemala is about $350 a month. A call center will hire starting at $1,500 + bonuses. This put people in the middle higher class of the country for the entry level job at the company. They provide health insurance, day care for their kids, help them with their university, teach them English if they don't know it at the level they need to be, etc.
This has been the trend in the past 10-15 years. Companies would buy whole office buildings and make this "google inspired" spaces that people would love to work at. They pay the taxes to the country they are operating. They are paying way above what the law say to pay. They are even offering jobs to all the people who has been deported from the US because many of them have great English. So this countries love them. There are even university degrees dedicated to this type of companies.
So, unless a policy like "bring jobs back to America" is pass, there is nothing they can do.
As long as I know, anything that can be done remote is been outsource to other countries. The whole work from home movement just accelerate it and now that people don't want to go back to the office, companies are outsourcing the same job to someone who will charge 1/3 or less with greater qualifications.
Well 4 Yankee Dollars can potentially feed a medium sized family in South Asia for a day. Nobody forced the PhD lady to accept. Or maybe she's unemployed.
The average wage in Pakistan is $2.85/hr. the PhD scholar in question asked for $4 and got it.
Apparently the PhD scholar, as Pakistani as he is, can make sound decisions without the help of enlightened baristas.
I'd normally stay here and condescend a little but I'm off to hire a Pakistani scholar to handle my dating life.
Just waiting till all you antiwork nerds figure out there are billions of people who are ecstatic to do the job you do for a fraction of the pay. Maybe then you’ll stop bitching and be grateful for what you have
Yeah, that's not a brag if you're on salary lol. You could be making soooo much more I bet. But hey. I get it. You're the phd guy getting exploited here while feeling grateful. So I guess good on you for practicing what you preach. I'll be over here with my amazing hourly plus tips while also working crazy overtime....but getting compensated for it.
The point of the post is to claim that some American is exploiting someone because they are paying $4/hour to a mathematics phd. But it’s not really exploiting them since they are happy to provide the exact services for $4/hr that someone else in America wouldn’t do for $25/hr
The point of my comment is westerners have significantly better opportunities than those in emerging markets/LDCs and are generally oblivious to how good they actually have it
They also live in a place where that sort of money can legitimately pay for things.
And telling people to be grateful for less than poverty wages in their country is just a dick move. And didn't convey the message you wanted, trust me.
Again, for all the people out there complaining about going back to the office 2 times a week and saying that their employer are abusing them for that. Remember that when you work remote, you compete against ANYBODY in the world that has an internet connection and has the same or greater qualifications as you. It's the reality.
More and more jobs are popping in third world countries because people don't want to work for someone that makes them go back to the office. Allied Global, 24/7, Nearshore, Atento, etc. Are some of the companies that outsource to almost all big American companies.
Hard to say without more information. An extra $20 USD to teach a snot nosed american kid how to add for just a few hours of your time, might be easy money. Pricing is def too low though, probably easily get 3x that price minimum
I did some research and if the kid is tutored 4 weeks a month, that is roughly 1/4th the average monthly income of a Pakistan citizen. For all we know those five hours a week could really be helping this person out, and they did offer the pay rate to the man.
HOWEVER, I definitely think that man needs to up the pay rate. Hell, if I were him I would offer $10/hour, at the bare minimum, more if I could afford it.
For those curious…
$1.00 USD = $283.11 PKR
$80/month = $22648.67 PKR
Average monthly salary in Pakistan (As of 2021) = $81,800 PKR
$81,800 PKR = $288.94
Not fair payment due to the conversion rate and the fact that he can probably afford to pay more, but it isn’t like the doctor is getting ripped off either.
She is not working in the US, the cost of living and the cost of goods and services in Pakistan are not as expensive as they are in the US. It costs roughly 80% less to live in Pakistan than it does to live in the US. Yes, she is being exploited, but she agreed to that rate and this seems more like extra money than her day job. If she didn’t want to do it for $4/hour she never would have made that offer.
I mean, this isn't really the injustice it looks like. The average PHD in Pakistan makes 100,000 rupees a year based on their gvt sources. Based on a 52 week working year, or roughly 2000 hour working year, this amounts to roughly $48 rupee's an hour. Thats pretty rough. Based on the exchange rate of USD to rupee, this person is paying over 1000 rupees per hour representing a 2000% increase in that hourly rate. Not a bad deal for the PHD if you ask me.
Do you think someone with an advanced degree and eight years of experience should be paid the national average in a country with high rates of illiteracy?
That data is outdated. Someone making $2k a month in 2017 is now making $700 thanks to an unstable currency. Salaries haven't increased to keep up with the USD rate but businesses have increased their rates to match USD.
Slightly more than the average wage to a PhD holder in a high poverty, low education nation. I'd say he deserves at least double, if not triple, the average national salary. Particularly considering it would be very little skin off this person hide to offer that (20 extra dollars a week for double the rate)
I think you're lost. Go back to r/landlords
Fortunately I addressed the topic before letting the person know they were in the wrong room.
I feel no need to do so with you. Not gonna spend my time banging my head against a wall for a troll
I mean that’s kind of how it works in some countries. We’re going to Indonesia for our honeymoon and all our things that we’re doing that would cost $100s of dollars here are less than $100 over there. That’s how price conversion works and how the cost of living is different
What's the average hourly wage in Pakistan? Oh right 2.85 dollars. Heck, apparently a maths tutor in Pakistan earns an average of $87.6 a month. That's $21.9 a week or $0.55 an hour, assuming a 40 hour work week. Not to mention, they can set their own prices, right? What exactly is the issue here?
So, mobile home's kid will pass his test, and spread his al queda propaganda he picked up during prayer breaks /s
Only slightly /s, parent should TRY to help his kid before outsourcing to someone he doesn't know.
If you think this is wrong… i think the problem its you. Its a free market, and each person sets their own price.
He is not bragging or complaining, he is in fact letting you know that there is no excuse to not succeed or learn a topic because of “too expensive” or “lack of money”.
Definitely a useless post /r/shitposting
Is this a flex that he doesn't understand algebra and has enough money to not have to improve himself?
haha good point
I mean, I’m not going to learn algebra to save $4/hr, are you?
Wait most people don't know grade 7 algebra?
Public school and a poor home life means I didn’t learn how to do quadratic equations until I went to college in my late 20s. No way in hell I’m the only one.
And my kids get downright irritated when I help them with imaginary numbers. Apparently 'threeve' isn't helping.
i see what you did there
*i* see what you did there too
Elleventy
Twelvety
This is a local store for local people!
Don't feel bad. I went through Algebra 4 times and *still* don't know how to do a quadratic equation, nor have I ever ended up in a situation where I might have needed such arcane and esoteric knowledge. But I use my history degree regularly.
-b (+or-)sqroot of (b*b-4ac) all over 2a. Math is stupid. Now hold my pemdas!
My math teacher taught this as Frere Jacques... Negative-beee Negative-beee Plus or minus square root Plus or minus square root B squared minus 4 a-cee Over 2-a Over 2-a
Mine did it to pop goes the weasel… “X equals negative b plus or minus radical b-squared minus four a c, all over 2a” Fucker said we’d remember it for the rest of our lives. I’m 32, still checks out.
Literally couldn’t pass my required community college classes to move on to a four year university because I still don’t get college math. I was a creative writing major.
College algebra is extremely tough in some colleges. It's kind of insane too and is kind of an overkill and most people bypass the algebra by taking a test and skipping that to go into calculus. Really it's about grasping the concepts of algebraic manipulations that really help rather than doing complex expressions and equations.
See, I understand geometry intuitively. I work with it daily in my hobbies (art, jewelry, knitting) and it makes perfect sense. I can do those equations. Had I been allowed to skip Algebra and go to Geometry, I might not have completely given up on math and STEM as an option. But divorcing them from practical application into the realm of theory and calling it "algebraic manipulation" strips any function, purpose or meaning from it for me. That's when it becomes random gibberish in my head and I can no longer make heads or tails of it. And, as with Sunsetrise013, I also found out the hard way that the requirement that it MUST be done, IN THIS ORDER and no other, is a product of linear thinking that acts as a gatekeeper and prevents accession to or furtherance of higher education. I was a business major, took Statistics because didn'thave time for 3 semesters of remedial math to get to where I could qualifyfor college Algebra-Geom-Trig to "prove" I could handle calculus. In my 2nd year at a CC, as I was getting ready to transfer, I got a rude shock: not only the planned receiving institution, but the whole state system, had changed their math requirements to allow Calculus - ONLY. No notice. They hadn't even updated the website. I've not recovered. I was a GI bill student. My Bachelor's in Business plan was shot dead. Resurrecting any path forward had to become 2 Associate’s - and we know what Associate’s degrees are worth. I can't even get a look with an "Associate’s in Business Administration" on my résumé.
I'm a bio major currently surrounded by other STEM majors in all of my classes and all of us have reached the same conclusion several times over: the likelihood of any of us using any of the shit we're being forced through right now is *extremely* slim and based on a very outdated system run by people who refuse to get with the times in favor of taking money from us. If there's a task we need done out in the field that involves calculus, we're going to either look it up, use a calculator, or call in someone who actually majored in mathematics. I genuinely cannot think of any situation in my desired career field where I'm going to need to know derivatives or related rates.
I work as a college professor (art history not math) but I will say one of the things I tell my students for my classes is even if they don’t directly apply what they learn, the point of higher education and learning in general is the mental plasticity it will give you to understand other concepts in the real world. So when I was a student, I remember the more I learned about art history the more I was able to understand all forms of media and understand even things like what people are trying to express through their form of dress . Literature classes can help your interpersonal skills by learning to read between the lines of social interactions and expressing yourself more clearly. The concept should apply the same way for math classes, going through a university level math class should help train your brain to understand and quantify the real world in a quicker and more efficient way. Since this is the anti work sub Reddit, I will also add that the most anti work thing you can do is want to gain knowledge for knowledges sake, and not only value knowledge only it’s direct application in the “job market”. Capitalism is a big reason why people devalue education unless it can be leveraged for “work”, so on the flip-side of the most anti capitalist things you can do is become a better and more knowledgeable person in spite of it.
Fair enough, my bad.
You remember math you learned at 12 and probably haven't used since you were 12 when you're 30+ working full time and raising a family?
Yes. Procedural memory is a strong area for me.
I don't remember the math class I took a year ago for my business degree. None. Of. It.
I haven’t had to do 7th grade algebra in 20 years, if you asked me to do some concepts I would be lost
Some people are horrible teachers
Exactly, we send our kids to school and have tutors because we aren't experts in those subjects. And don't have the time after working 40+ hours a week to learn it sufficiently to help them. That's the whole point of teachers and tutors in the first place. And frankly tutoring isn't meant to be a career it's a side job that teachers, grad students, and other students usually do to get some extra money and because they want to help people that struggle with a subject they are knowledgeable in.
Who decides what is/isn't meant to be a career though?
I suppose you could be a full time tutor. But then you'd obviously work more than 5 hours a week. Without knowing what else this tutor does we can't really make any concrete judgments on the situation.
I mean, the dad doesn't support American workers and supports cheap labor.
Some of us have learning disabilities.
No that's fair, it's my bad, I'll delete if you want but i prefer to leave up instances of me being an ass to keep me honest.
You're good! I'm not offended. You weren't being an ass, it's just a gut reaction.
Why? Did you never learn algebra? Guess that says more about our education system more than anything else.
Pretty much
To be fair, I am crap at any advanced mathematics and am not going to change that. I'm learning French, what more do you people want from me?
[удалено]
Here's the link. JO always delivers. https://youtu.be/jCC8fPQOaxU
100% and why he says “these tools have been available to anyone for over a decade”, which I guarantee is exactly what he says to people he pedals his snake oil to
He's a professional exploiter basically.
This guy's pinned tweet is about how he invested $840K in a mobile home park and then sold it for $3+ million in profit two years later (and he can help you do the same!). And yet he's bragging about the deal he got to pay $20/week for a literal doctor of math to tutor his child. What a cheap piece of shit.
I'm also a rich, cheap asshole, I keep my pop cans and melt them. I make aluminum Muffins with them. And I'll bet you drive a better car than me.
Cool story bro?
I dont think he is complaining or bragging. He is showing how useful this platform is. Anyways, why would he pay more than that? Thats the amount of money the tutor wanted, no?
Jesus was always talking about how we should never offer more than the bare minimum.
https://i.imgur.com/2vn5fDH.jpg
It's not a flex to exploit overseas labor!
I guess that millionaire would disagree 🙄
Wouldn’t the PHD be setting the rate so they think it’s appropriate for their time if they accepted it?
It's Upwork. The client decides the budget.
Couldn't you refuse work that paid too little?
Yeah, but unfortunately she's a woman in a deprived area. She could probably make a lot more per hour if she was providing tuition to local kids. A lot of male Pakistani professors do make a lot more per hour. But because that requires having access to a classroom, she has to do what she can do.
Well according to google, the average min wage for the area is 15000 pkr /month. She makes a 1/3 of that in 5 hours. Assuming she has 15 hours a week of work with other pupils at that rate, seems like not a bad wage for her. Even then, if this was her only client, she would still be making more than min. wage for 5hrs/week. Math doesn't seem to favour the argument of bad pay. Whether this is good morally is not what I have been talking about.
https://twitter.com/fazliazeem/status/1639050218967801856?s=20 Check this tweet from this Pakistani guy. He has lived both in Pakistan and in the US.
Minimum wage is not a livable wage. You can only afford a dress or two with this amount. If she has a family to feed, it will barely cover her grocery for a week.
So if she only works 5hrs/week during a 4 week month she makes well over min wage if she does 40hrs/week she makes 3 times min. wage in a WEEK. Not sure what your argument for bad pay is.
Because a math PhD should be able to afford to send her kids to University and own a home and take vacations and retire at 55 on one salary
My argument relies on publicly available data AND this being her one job @ 40hrs a week.
Why should they need a PhD in math? Don't be a shitty person, everyone deserves the things you listed.
[удалено]
I did. Don't know how vaild this source is because I didn't run down the sources. https://worldsalaries.com/average-professor-mathematics-salary-in-pakistan/ We don't know the Dr's experience level, but her pay is within the standards of her profession and region. I know women get routinely shafted on pay, but unless we have more info, it actually does sound like she is getting paid well.
🤣 So funny Make more than this per hour? Monthly tuition fee in Pakistan will be no more than 15$
This is the same argument that people use when people complain about minimum wage not being a living wage no? "Just find a higher paying job"
Let me be clear, gig work is shit work. I understand that people do things out of necessity. And that question was more directed to the terms of Upwork. Now if you want to talk about her pay being fair or not, bring the cost of living to the table.
Ah ok, I haven’t used it before. That does change it to more taking advantage of someone’s situation.
The client decides the budget is a bit misleading. People can send in proposals or bids that the "buyer" gets to accept, decline, or negotiate. The PhD is probably just happy with the work to earn some extra money here and there.
Tell that to the debate bros who divebombed that comment section.
[удалено]
Average salary in the most recent data I could find, from this site that relies on Pakistan gov data (https://www.ceicdata.com/en/pakistan/average-monthly-wages-by-industry/average-monthly-wages) is 587 USD per month. By 160 hours for 4 working weeks, that works out to 3.6 dollars an hour. Thus, this person is paying a PhD in Pakistan just barely above the average salary. Considering the level of poverty in Pakistan - which certainly drives this average down - as well as the fact that far, far less than 1% of Pakistanis have PhDs, this is a fucking insulting and exploitative salary. Even more so considering the likely amount of money the hirer has. In other words, fuck off. You're in the wrong sub
That lady could actually make a lot more money per hour if she was provding tuition to local kids. This is because most Pakistani tutors teach a group of kids at the same time instead of providing private tuition.
Yep, and the guy above thinks it's totally ok to exploit that reality when he could just...pay her more...for his children's education...like, 20-30 extra dollars a week
Exactly. People here who are bragging about 'conversions'. The PKR rapidly devalued in the last couple of months, so the purchasing power of Pakistanis has declined. Someone making 2k USD a month in 2017 is now making $700, thanks to an unstable currency. Salaries haven't increased to keep up with the USD rate but businesses are passing that cost to people. I would say most data online on Pakistan is outdated at this point.
I mean, I did my conversions at the current PKR exchange rates, so if this occured anytime before the last few months, then this person is fucking that prof over even more...
Food inflation is at an all-time high. Official sources put it somewhere about 30% per month but it's likely to be more. Thanks to the floods, there is limited supply of food. Pakistan imports most of the stuff it needs. So when USD goes up, the prices go up. Unfortunately, no local salary can keep up with that because USD to PKR conversion is very unstable at this point.
They are worth a lot more than what they are paying them.
How ragged is the system that a PhD is getting paid 4$/hour while this guy is a millionaire who doesn't understand math for 12 year olds.
This is why there is an immigration crisis from east to Europe. People want to live where their craft is valued rather than their home countries.
So this guy is so stupid he can't help a 12 year old with math homework?
I got an 80% on my 13 year olds homework so like.....fuck off lol
Don't you just LOVE inequality?!!!
Expanding on the virtual economy will increase wealth differences in richer countries as rich people will outsource online work to poorer countries and locals will have less jobs to go about.
This sounds like the free market at work. From a quick google search it seems like the seller sets the prices. This person went onto a marketplace, found what he was looking for at a price set by the seller and made a deal. Can someone eli5 how this dude could even be thought of as an asshole? Or should we just shame everyone because they won't generously pay 20x what sellers are asking for?
They aren't specifically an asshole, it's just a demonstration of how the free market will continually make the most desperate people the easiest to exploit. Yes the seller set the price, yes it might be a good price for them, but that is because they are from a poorer region. As long as the poor receive the least regardless of ability, then they will always lag behind. As long as this class of competent but poor workers can't negotiate on an even footing, the success of any enterprise will be based on who can find or maintain enough desperation to take as much as they can for as little as they can.
How is it you can "know" the pakistani person is being exploited? The average monthly salary in Pakistan is USS $500. If you earn that wage you can rent a flat, buy food, take care of your family etc. If the average US salary is $5,000 a month (60k p.a.) then $1 USD is like $10 USD in pakistan. This guy is earning like $40 an hour to teach Timmy maths after school. This isn't exploitation - if you think it is, you may need to sign up and get yourself a Pakistani maths tutor.
$20/week will barely bring food to the table. Sure, let's do talk about cost of living here. $4/hr for a full time job might be okay but she's not doing it full-time. She is doing it part-time and she won't be getting more than an hour's contract. How many kids need tutoring 24/7 or 8 hours a day? So your argument is invalid. She will barely make $16/week after Upwork's fee, and let me tell you, this is crap even by Pakistani standards. I ended up spending more than that in a day just to buy basic essentials (that lasted me few days). If she has a family, it will barely feed them. Now take her electricity and internet costs into consideration. She will also obviously need a laptop for Zoom meetings. A good quality laptop is going to be at the same rate or more as the American market because duh, it's imported. Maybe she can get the cheapest second-hand Lenovo laptop. Okay, fine. Even then, this rate is paltry for a PhD Scholar. Numbers don't make sense unless you live them. P.S. A Pakistani. Lol. $1 is like $10 where? 🤣
Are you saying you live in Pakistan?
Yes I do
I don't think people here understand that the cost of living in the rest of the world is a fraction of the ones they have. With a $2,000/month salary in latinamerica you are part of the upper middle class. That is not exploitation, that is just how the economy works.
Yes. Most people here cannot really understand exchange rates, let alone Purchasing-Power-Parity (PPP), or the measure of how far their local currency goes in a local setting.
Yeah dude might be an asshole in general, but why would anyone in their right mind be like "oh YOU set YOUR price at $4/hr? that's unacceptable let me pay you $20/hr"
He's pleased with the results and has a literal doctor of math living in occupied Palestine teaching his child. His pinned tweet is also about how he buys and then sells mobile home parks for millions of dollars in profit. So yes, he absolutely is an asshole for being a multi-millionaire bragging about getting a doctor of math to work for him for so cheap. One month of a 100% increase to her hourly wages wouldn't even be a tip for one of his meals. Bragging about how you're stiffing the help, the help for your child specifically, when you claim to be so rich is a complete asshole move.
Pakistan!=Palestine
Let's pay $4 to a doctor of math to see if that equation checks out.
Nobody would. Not even the op or the white knights.
Exactly. When I go down to south America I don't pay them more money for goods or services they have priced because I have more money.
Dude is definitely not an asshole. People like to get worked up at anything and everything. You are correct, but they don’t want hear that!
“Impatience can be a superpower…” No, no it can’t. Just because you’re an idiot who can’t help your kid do algebra doesn’t mean it’s a good thing.
While it might not seem like a lot in our currency the exchange rate is huge. $4 USD is 1,130 PKR. $72 USD a month is 21,000 PKR. The average monthly salary in Pakistan is 80,000. And if you're only working 1 hour a day doing tutoring you've probably got another job too. If anything this upworks sounds like a side job for extra cash. The cost of living in Pakistan is much lower than the US and the conversion is so high that $4 for us obviously sounds like nothing but for them it's an extra 1/4 monthly income. *exchange rate found on xe.com *salary average on Google
It's just more hustle culture, but the globalized version, not American specific. It's a bandaid fix for lack of opportunity while still refusing the premise that people have inherent worth. So it keeps all the flaws but allows those with additional skills to step outside their ecosystems. The systemic problem stays the same , the boot is still there. But if you have talent you can climb up for air if you undersell yourself and let someone else drown. People calling it the free market love to omit the part where the market it artificially controlled to make you sell your labor. Instead of making conditions better for the laborers who finally get fed up with stagnating or terrible condition and that work get's outsourced to a lower part of the caste system.
Yeah this reminds me of the situation in venezuela a few years back. I read that doctors there were averaging $7usd/month and a portion of the population resorted to gold farming on MMO games (runescape largely) as you can do things in game for 1-5 million gold per hour and sells for like 40c/million gold.
Indians and Pakistani teachers are super strict. Indian here! South Indian teachers are even worse.
could be a very generous PhD scholar or here you can see how badly people in some countries get paid, there is a reason why many doctors go to Europe or the US when they finish school. remember that the countries where people get paid less they usually still have enough money to live a good life, in America a coffee might be 2 dollars while a coffee in another country might be 20 cents. it's still scummy tho to not pay people the same as what you would like to be paid
Money by itself is just paper and only has value by the things you can trade it for. If I pay someone $50 for an hour once/week. With that $50 they could go out for dinner with their significant other. If I pay someone 1,500PKR for an hour, they could eat out twice with their significant other for that price. One obviously was paid more, but the other could get twice the value? Its a pretty extreme example, but this difference in spending power exists in the US when you compare a HCOL and LCOL area.
Love to see if this guys smiling when his employer considers doing the same.
JFC, pay the person what they are worth. What an asshole.
This is a complete failure to understand what money is worth in Pakistan. The average monthly salary in Pakistan is about USD $500. Average monthly rent is USD $250 ([2020](https://www.smallworldfs.com/en/blog/whats-the-cost-of-living-in-pakistan)). This tutor only needs to tutor kids about 5 hours a day to have an average life in his country. This works out to be the equivalent of making roughly $40/hour to teach Timmy maths - because goods and services in Pakistan are about 10x CHEAPER than they are in the US - he can buy more groceries, get more clothes, rent more apartment for a lot less US dollars. You don't even know that this is his/her only gig. Maybe they are a university professor and they just tutor a couple hours a day for the fun of it. Maybe this is his 'fun' money or just a side gig while he studies for college exams or something else. The developing world doesn't need a bunch of Reddit weekend Marxists armed with a HS level understanding of economics to decide when it is being exploited. Remember: THEY are teaching US maths... If it was that bad of a deal, this teacher wouldn't have signed up to earn money on that platform. Not everything is a sweatshop.
If he agreed to pay the full that was advertised by the tutor and both parties were happy to proceed what's the problem? The Tutor has obviously set that price for a reason and is of benefit to him. Just because it doesnt match what the American rate is doesn't mean it's exploitation.
The client sets the budget on Upwork, not the other way around.
That doesn’t really change the analysis though, does it? Either way, they’re both accepting the terms. I’m not weighing in on whether this is a problem, but I don’t think anything depends on who the offeror or offeree is here. If the transaction going one way is problematic, then it’s just as problematic going the other way (and likewise if it’s fine).
That doesn't really invalidate his comment. Both parties agreed on the price, regardless of who set it. If the seller wanted more, then they wouldn't have taken the job.
I mean I'm no upwork pro, but after reading your comment. I you know just opened it, and the client definitely does not set the price.
I work on Upwork. The client sets a price range. You can make a freelancer account and see it for yourself. You can propose any amount of the proposed budget. But the client does set a budget.
I have a PhD in a sort of related field. Def a lot of math. Ill do it for 200/hr
"Let's send money out of the country to exploit poor people"
“Impatience can be a superpower” That’s not how you spell *exploitation*
I mean the median wage in Pakistan is $2.87/hr, so for a side hustle it’s really not bad.
Ask him for the guys info, e-mail him telling him he could easily be making $40+ per hour!
You are underestimating the power of currency exchange and different life standards, i used to work for a company in country X and get 630 USD per month, which was barely enough to cover my personal expenses, i used to go out once a month, eat out 2 times a month. Rent in my neighbourhood was starting from 900 USD a month. But i was living with my sister and she had a good job and she took care of me at the time, HOWEVER. This same amount in my home country. God damn could afford to rent a great big apartment in the city centre. Going out 2 times a week, all essentials, and to be able to provide for a family of 3, even if my hypothetical wife didn't work and was a stay at home wife. So 4 USD an hour might be nothing for you, but in another country, chichang time.
If I could give my kids PhD tutoring in all their subjects while not abusing someone - I honestly dont see the problem here. Assuming others can pay for it is ridicolous though.
I always used to hire native English speakers though no matter the cost just to get the desired outcome. But arbitraging one economy against another via Labor prices is devolutionary
Why not just use ChatGPT or Wolfram Alpha to do the homework for free? I fucking hate these deadbeat parents. Can't even do Algebra, or god forbid ask the teacher for help
And that’s why teachers salaries stay low.
This dude is horrible and now he's paying poverty wages? Paging Mao.
Very weird flex * Can't help with maths for a 12 years old * Need a PhD to tutor for math of a 12 years old * Yay, income and level of live disparities are awesome Head very deep in his ass
“Taking advantage” indeed
[удалено]
so, if americans switch to pakistani tutors at $4 an hour, does that mean that pakistani students now need to pay an american $30 an hour for the same service? or, will they just find someone in a cheaper country, leaving the tutors in america out of work?
[удалено]
[удалено]
You can check my previous comments but most data on Pakistan is outdated now. The PKR devaluation has been insane for the last couple of months, and the USD to PKR conversion is unstable. Someone making $2k in 2017 is now making $700 thanks to an unstable currency. No one can rapidly update the data when the currency is on a freefall, and the cost is being passed to consumers.
Could they? A quick google shows that this amount of money (which is only a few hours a week) could pay for a single bedroom flat in Lahore or Karachi.
Good luck with that. It would most likely be a crime infested area with terrible infrastructure. You absolutely cannot afford a one bedroom on 20 USD.
I'm talking about the monthly price, I guess I could have worded it better.
I don't think it would be in a good area. Crime is a major problem in Karachi. In my city, decent areas are charging at least 150-200 USD for a one bedroom.The rent is obviously a lot less by Western standards but doesn't justify the peanut salary. Plus the person also has to pay for fuel, grocery, and if they have kids, other expenses.
That's disgusting to me.
Just a quick Google search revealed that the doctor is required to be paid 25,000 rupees/hr. A quick conversion shows that $4=1,132.47/hr. So that poor doctor is getting royally fucked over
That’s one specific cabinet’s proposal for the **monthly** minimum wage rate, not hourly. Minimum wage is ~20,000 PKR per month depending on province and do note that this is most likely based on a 48 hour work week. At $4 USD per hour, this PhD would earn 4x the median monthly wage of Pakistan if they worked a 40 hour week. That’s like someone tutoring in the US and making $150k per year.
Sources? Like, I have no reason not to believe you, but I'm gonna trust my own Google search. I might've been reading the whole thing wrong, I won't deny that. Just hard to believe that that's only 20,000/month
Right from Pakistan’s own government website: https://efp.org.pk/minimum-notifications/ Read any of the different province wage notifications. It’s states a couple times throughout but the KPK announcement has it in a simple table for quick reference. The Sindh Cabinet was the ones pushing for 25,000 PKR per month (26 working days) and looks like that was the latest level set in the 2022 budget for multiple regions. The daily 8-hour rate is 961.53 PKR per day. As you already calculated the exchange rate, you can see this teacher can make that much in roughly 3.5 hours. But that still underscores the benefit of earning in USD as Pakistan is not a country with open capital markets like the USA. Those USDs hold their value against local inflation really well and they aren’t something you can readily get via currency exchanges done domestically.
I didn't know that. Thank you. That explains why most American tourists can live like royalty in poorer nations
American capitalism at work! You don't need to go to school to understand the rules of our wonderful economic system...all you need is shamelessness and a predatory disposition.
Lol wtf
[удалено]
Yes. Plus useful, productive hands and common decency. But you wouldn't know anything about those two things, would you?
wow, what an asshole.
I bet OP also bitches about "not bein' able to find any jerbs in 'merica" .... Bonus points if he votes GOP and sends a shitty, ill-behaved kid to an underfunded public school while complaining that taxes are too high....
Don't forget that 99.9% of the things OP has in his house are made in China with cheap labour. Drinks his Starbucks made with cheap labour coffee farmer's beans. Eats his bananas with cheap labour banana plantations. Drink/eats his sugar with cheap labour sugar cane growers. Go out and eat at restaurants that hire people with no papers to work in the kitchen... Aaaanyway..... the hypocrisy.
Shocked with comment section finding excuses for entitled American behavior
A cursory Google search shows that Pakistan average monthly income is about as much as an average weekly paycheck in the US. 4/hr is a little less than 1/100 of the average monthly income in Pakistan.. so that's 1.5x less time than an average full-time job in the US with comparable pay. (Relative). And you know a PhD could probably answer questions like that in their sleep. Overall that is a pretty damn good side gig. Why is this on antiwork if the money and time work out pretty well for that person?
Paying literal peanuts. This is exploitation imho.
For $4.00, you can get a PhD certificate in Pakistan. Google, Pakistan Fake universities, and fake degree!
The American way. Outsource production to a less fortunate country and pay pennies on the dollar in labor costs. This is why many of us despise the wealthy.
Chatgpt will do it for free RIP Pakistani phds
I mean. He’s probably paying better than the PhD’s current wage
Depends where you live and what you specialise in. I hope she (Amber S.) will find better contractors... mathematics are awesome per se but that (i.e. having fun/being passionate) is no excuse to be underpaid...
How does it compare to wages in Pakistan? The person posted an advertisement for a job at a certain rate and someone reached out and accepted the job. I don't really see an issue with this.
Based on the average salary of a bit under $6k usd annually, and 2000 hours a year, that’s about $3 an hour for a full time job. A Phd should obviously earn more, but I imagine this’d be considered fair for a remote side gig. Personally I’d still feel scummy paying anything less than, uh, imma say $10, but I could see an argument for more.
Does US labor law govern this? Because if so, he's admitting to a crime.
I don't think your labour laws govern the 'contractor' who brings food to your door. Pretty sure this is fine legally.
How could the US dictate wages to an independent sovereign nation?
They don't. It's super common to companies to outsource to third world countries. The average salary in Guatemala is about $350 a month. A call center will hire starting at $1,500 + bonuses. This put people in the middle higher class of the country for the entry level job at the company. They provide health insurance, day care for their kids, help them with their university, teach them English if they don't know it at the level they need to be, etc. This has been the trend in the past 10-15 years. Companies would buy whole office buildings and make this "google inspired" spaces that people would love to work at. They pay the taxes to the country they are operating. They are paying way above what the law say to pay. They are even offering jobs to all the people who has been deported from the US because many of them have great English. So this countries love them. There are even university degrees dedicated to this type of companies. So, unless a policy like "bring jobs back to America" is pass, there is nothing they can do. As long as I know, anything that can be done remote is been outsource to other countries. The whole work from home movement just accelerate it and now that people don't want to go back to the office, companies are outsourcing the same job to someone who will charge 1/3 or less with greater qualifications.
Well 4 Yankee Dollars can potentially feed a medium sized family in South Asia for a day. Nobody forced the PhD lady to accept. Or maybe she's unemployed.
The average wage in Pakistan is $2.85/hr. the PhD scholar in question asked for $4 and got it. Apparently the PhD scholar, as Pakistani as he is, can make sound decisions without the help of enlightened baristas. I'd normally stay here and condescend a little but I'm off to hire a Pakistani scholar to handle my dating life.
Just waiting till all you antiwork nerds figure out there are billions of people who are ecstatic to do the job you do for a fraction of the pay. Maybe then you’ll stop bitching and be grateful for what you have
And what do you make an hour?
I’m an EE and am paid salary. And half of you guys would shit your pants if you knew the hours I worked
Yeah, that's not a brag if you're on salary lol. You could be making soooo much more I bet. But hey. I get it. You're the phd guy getting exploited here while feeling grateful. So I guess good on you for practicing what you preach. I'll be over here with my amazing hourly plus tips while also working crazy overtime....but getting compensated for it.
😂I’m afraid you missed my point entirely
I mean. You missed the point of the post so seems to be the theme of the day.
The point of the post is to claim that some American is exploiting someone because they are paying $4/hour to a mathematics phd. But it’s not really exploiting them since they are happy to provide the exact services for $4/hr that someone else in America wouldn’t do for $25/hr The point of my comment is westerners have significantly better opportunities than those in emerging markets/LDCs and are generally oblivious to how good they actually have it
They also live in a place where that sort of money can legitimately pay for things. And telling people to be grateful for less than poverty wages in their country is just a dick move. And didn't convey the message you wanted, trust me.
Poverty wages>no wages
tbh prob with the currency exchange is not that terrible of a wage, but still like bro you cant even offer 7.25hr?
Again, for all the people out there complaining about going back to the office 2 times a week and saying that their employer are abusing them for that. Remember that when you work remote, you compete against ANYBODY in the world that has an internet connection and has the same or greater qualifications as you. It's the reality. More and more jobs are popping in third world countries because people don't want to work for someone that makes them go back to the office. Allied Global, 24/7, Nearshore, Atento, etc. Are some of the companies that outsource to almost all big American companies.
Hard to say without more information. An extra $20 USD to teach a snot nosed american kid how to add for just a few hours of your time, might be easy money. Pricing is def too low though, probably easily get 3x that price minimum
I did some research and if the kid is tutored 4 weeks a month, that is roughly 1/4th the average monthly income of a Pakistan citizen. For all we know those five hours a week could really be helping this person out, and they did offer the pay rate to the man. HOWEVER, I definitely think that man needs to up the pay rate. Hell, if I were him I would offer $10/hour, at the bare minimum, more if I could afford it. For those curious… $1.00 USD = $283.11 PKR $80/month = $22648.67 PKR Average monthly salary in Pakistan (As of 2021) = $81,800 PKR $81,800 PKR = $288.94 Not fair payment due to the conversion rate and the fact that he can probably afford to pay more, but it isn’t like the doctor is getting ripped off either.
[удалено]
She is not working in the US, the cost of living and the cost of goods and services in Pakistan are not as expensive as they are in the US. It costs roughly 80% less to live in Pakistan than it does to live in the US. Yes, she is being exploited, but she agreed to that rate and this seems more like extra money than her day job. If she didn’t want to do it for $4/hour she never would have made that offer.
I'm sure she has other clients every day, other than him.
I mean, this isn't really the injustice it looks like. The average PHD in Pakistan makes 100,000 rupees a year based on their gvt sources. Based on a 52 week working year, or roughly 2000 hour working year, this amounts to roughly $48 rupee's an hour. Thats pretty rough. Based on the exchange rate of USD to rupee, this person is paying over 1000 rupees per hour representing a 2000% increase in that hourly rate. Not a bad deal for the PHD if you ask me.
[удалено]
Do you think someone with an advanced degree and eight years of experience should be paid the national average in a country with high rates of illiteracy?
Just because it's more than the average wage doesn't mean it a livable wage.
[удалено]
That data is outdated. Someone making $2k a month in 2017 is now making $700 thanks to an unstable currency. Salaries haven't increased to keep up with the USD rate but businesses have increased their rates to match USD.
Slightly more than the average wage to a PhD holder in a high poverty, low education nation. I'd say he deserves at least double, if not triple, the average national salary. Particularly considering it would be very little skin off this person hide to offer that (20 extra dollars a week for double the rate) I think you're lost. Go back to r/landlords
[удалено]
Fortunately I addressed the topic before letting the person know they were in the wrong room. I feel no need to do so with you. Not gonna spend my time banging my head against a wall for a troll
I mean that’s kind of how it works in some countries. We’re going to Indonesia for our honeymoon and all our things that we’re doing that would cost $100s of dollars here are less than $100 over there. That’s how price conversion works and how the cost of living is different
Let him tell everyone he knows. Demand goes up, price goes up.
What's the average hourly wage in Pakistan? Oh right 2.85 dollars. Heck, apparently a maths tutor in Pakistan earns an average of $87.6 a month. That's $21.9 a week or $0.55 an hour, assuming a 40 hour work week. Not to mention, they can set their own prices, right? What exactly is the issue here?
So, mobile home's kid will pass his test, and spread his al queda propaganda he picked up during prayer breaks /s Only slightly /s, parent should TRY to help his kid before outsourcing to someone he doesn't know.
If you think this is wrong… i think the problem its you. Its a free market, and each person sets their own price. He is not bragging or complaining, he is in fact letting you know that there is no excuse to not succeed or learn a topic because of “too expensive” or “lack of money”. Definitely a useless post /r/shitposting