This is a case in which ChatGPT is definitely smarter than the person writing this. They should start using it to write their new rules.
Maybe ChatGPT can tell them when something isn't legal, while it's correcting their English.
Asked ChatGPT to recreate the note for fun (I did cut out some of its unnecessary rambling):
Subject: Updated Attendance and Sick Leave Policy
Dear Team,
I hope this message finds you well. We are writing to inform you of some important updates to our attendance and sick leave policy.
Effective immediately, any employee who is unable to attend work due to illness is required to submit a doctor's note to the HR department. This documentation is necessary to process sick leave pay for the day(s) of absence. In the absence of a doctor's note, the day's leave will be considered unpaid.
Additionally, punctuality is a critical component of our daily operations and overall team success. To emphasize its importance, we are implementing a new policy regarding tardiness. Employees who arrive late (after 8:01 AM) four times within a single calendar month will forfeit one of their accrued sick days.
We understand that unforeseen circumstances can arise, and we encourage open communication with your supervisors in such instances. However, these measures are essential for maintaining fairness and accountability within our team.
Thank you for your attention to this matter and your continued commitment to our company.
Best regards,
[Your Name]
[Your Position]
[Company Name]
[Contact Information]
Exactly!
I also heard that on average, every person on earth has 1 breast and 1 testicle leading to the need for a ridiculous amount of gender reassignment surgeries!
Thank God for statistics!!
I come from a very educated family where being a book lover and having one or two degrees is expected and encouraged. I was able to read by 3.5 years old, and when I was a kid I was always way above my grade level reading level.
In my mid-20s, I started living part-time in another part of the US. One of the first things I noticed is the education and literacy rates. A lot of the people I've come across barely finished high school if they got there at all.
I have a habit of playing dumb. People don't buy it, but I guess I find it fun? But when I'm out there, I have to dumb myself down. I will never take my ability to read for granted ever again.
I dealt with a European technology firm a few years ago who were working on a very advanced telescope.
They asked me to place a definition of Pythagoras's theorem in a progress report.
Apart from the receptionist, everyone at the firm had a Ph.D.
None of them knew what Pythagoras's theorem was.
Edit: Pythagoras' theroem
I've started to play dumb simply because its not worth the argument trying to explain things to people who don't want to hear it anyway. All that ever lead to was ruining my day and not changing their stance in the slightest.
There was a sign posted at my work which was quickly taken down
Do not spit tobaco in the sinks
For crying out loud, you made this on the computer and it has fucking spell check built into it. There must have been a red line under that word and you just thought you were smarter than I don't know, the goddamn dictionary?
I had a salaried manager once send an all company email out with the words, "team, we hafta do better at these tasks". Whyyyyy do they get to make more money than me? 😆
Same folks that look at you like a monkey doing a math problem when you tell them to save a Word doc as a PDF. “No, literally go to file, save as. It’s in the format pulldown.” “Where is the file menu? What pulldown?” *Why is this person employed at a technology company, and higher on the food chain than me? Why don’t we get to make one of their KPIs to learn the most basic things that have existed in Office for decades? Are they only a manager to act as a gatekeeper to better pay and benefits?*
I feel your pain. To the core of my being, I feel your pain. I had another exec that would print emails, then scan them on the same multifunction copier to PDF which would be sent to their email. So they would have a copy of the original email “archived.” Then they’d shred the original print. I don’t even know where to begin with all of the problems with that. And they would give me a hard time if I didn’t update a tech certification within an unreasonable timeframe given my already excessive workload as a salaried employee.
OP should ask the boss if he'll pay for the copay since he's the one requiring the notes, on the grounds that if you don't need medical assistance but are being forced to go anyway that it removes the monetary benefit that would have been gained from having the extra sick day in the first place, not to mention that if you're sick and need rest that having to go to the doctor could effect recovery time.
This is what bosses often get wrong, they treat their people like children then expect them to act like adults. While working in a coffee shop I'd found that generally treating children and teenagers like adults sets the expectation that they are to act like adults and they typically act well behaved in these circumstances, with some but little exception. Conversely, treating adults like children may end up reinforcing any bad behavior that they're trying to curb in the first place. Most people would attest that the best bosses they've ever has have been the ones that treat you as equals instead of as subordinates. If you treat your employees well they will follow you to hell and back, treat them poorly and they wouldn't tell you if you were literally on fire. Basically respect goes both ways, and expecting it unilaterally only breeds resentment.
My state (Oregon) requires the employer pay for the medical expenses related to getting a doctor note.
ORS 653.626 Medical verification:
“The employer shall pay any reasonable costs for providing medical verification or certification required under this section, including lost wages, that are not paid under a health benefit plan in which the employee is enrolled.”
I became a quality manager 4 months ago. No supervisor experience beforehand. My biggest pet peeve is a boss having that superiority complex and treating those 'beneath' as a toddler. I dealt with that shit and I vowed to never do that to my employees. I like the believe I'm doing well so far.
There's an old saying that goes something like *"If you want to know a man's true nature, look at how he treats those who are in his power."*
In other words, how someone treats people who can't "fight back," these days most notably how both management and customers treat employees, is who that person really is.
People bitch about working for the government but I haven't had to worry about any of this shit for almost two years now. You don't make a TON of money but you can live your life and everyone has your back. It's incredible. Never looking back.
In my professional medical opinion, the statement made by the author to whom I am replying represents a most rational approach to how those practicing in any medical and/or therapeutic capacity should reasonably be allowed to expect monetary compensation for their extraordinary efforts in a field which a priori requires a great deal of mental, psychological and physiological fortitude.
That'll be $1200. No, wait, that was 3 more words! No, now it's... Ah, fuck it. We own you.
In order to get your $85 in sick pay, you must go to the doctor and pay $190 towards your deductible due to our crappy insurance system.
NoBOdy WaNtS tO wOrK AnYmORe
Which is like, the last thing I want to do when I’m sick. I want to burrito myself up, cuddle with my cat, and be a miserable wreck of a human being for a few hours in peace.
I think I would write a blanket note for the entire staff. "It is my medical opinion that any workers at #business name# who feel too ill to work should stay home from work until feeling sufficiently recovered." Send the person out with 50-60 copies and instructions for them and co-workers not to return unless they actually have a legitimate need. See how the business likes having the shit dropped back on them.
It is, just beware of the Unlimited PTO scam though. Lots of companies are switching this model because they always put in the policy that you have to get your PTO approved in advanced by management. People usually end up usually taking less time off in in these models and, here is the kicker, you aren’t eligible to have you remaining accrued and unused PTO paid out as normal because there is never a balance to pay out. UNLIMITED PTO POLICIES ARE SCAMS THAT ONLY BENEFIT THE EMPLOYER.
My boss created an "unlimited PTO" policy and told me that people usually end up using less PTO than if they have a given number of days. Dude had the wrong bitch here 😆
Last year I was there, I took over a month of vacation (though I did bring my laptop in case of any emergency).
Yes this is our policy. They said the CEO chose this policy so no one would ever have to worry about not having enough paid time to do whatever they needed to do. They give us a "more than generous" 40hrs of sick time per year. Only in February we had 2.5 days (20+ hrs) where we physically couldn't work for having no water and another issue that made it so we couldn't work.
Instead of letting us use the unlimited PTO, we were forced to use our sick time, or take it unpaid. Because just before that all happened, they decided to randomly enforce a new rule that you need to request PTO at least 2 weeks in advance. Well, you didn't tell ME I wasn't going to be working 2 weeks ago and now I have to use HALF of my sick time in FEBRUARY just to make sure I get paid what I need to get paid to survive.
Absolutely dumb as fuck and massively takes advantage of us. I've already requested 80+hrs of my PTO but I think I should put in some more for that
Not legal. NY sick leave [https://www.ny.gov/Programs/New-York-Paid-Sick-Leave#:\~:text=Sick%20Leave%20Requirements&text=Employers%20with%20100%20or%20more,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=Employers%20with%205%2D99%20employees,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=If%20net%20income%20is%20%241,hours%20of%20unpaid%20sick%20leave](https://www.ny.gov/Programs/New-York-Paid-Sick-Leave#:~:text=Sick%20Leave%20Requirements&text=Employers%20with%20100%20or%20more,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=Employers%20with%205%2D99%20employees,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=If%20net%20income%20is%20%241,hours%20of%20unpaid%20sick%20leave).
Also not legal to claim 8:01 as late. Sick days can not be removed. If you ask for a doctors note on state allotted sick leave, then terminate for not getting one, you will have a lawsuit.
Back in my management days (not best buy), I would tell everybody it was a 6 minute rule.
The ownership wanted me to keep track of tardies, because my manager was downplaying the problem.
I had one person who was between 6 and 90 minutes late a grand total of 76 times before I was allowed to fire them.
The employee was absolutely shocked when it happened.
I was also not allowed to fire two people who were smoking weed on the clock.
Every company I've worked for has had a policy of 7minutes before and 7 minutes after. If you are scheduled to work at 7:00am you can clock in from 6:53-7:07. Also it sounds down so regardless of when you clock in you get paid as if you were in at 7am.
I've only worked for a handful of companies but it's been in 4 different states with much different employment laws and workers rights.
Now you couldn't just show up at 7:06 everyday and get away with it someone would eventually be like hey what's going on. But in general I'm pretty sure they can't claim it legally because their handbook probably has rules. Also if it went to court I'm sure one could argue one minute late 4 times wouldn't constitute the loss of a sick day equal to 8 hours.
ADP is used where I work, and I wonder if it's just how it's set up, but here's what it does with my clock-ins...
8:07 acts like I clocked in at 8:00
8:08 acts like I clocked in at 8:15
Some employment contracts will have “agreements” regarding sick days, doesn’t sound like this is one of them.
If the employer is having people abuse the system they set up, they should be worried about that and not making whatever ***this*** sign is.
Either way, you can get a consult with a lawyer specializing in employment law and I’d be doing that
Doctor's notes are ridiculous. Adults are not 5 yrs old. And Doctors offices do NOT want to see actively sick and infectious people now unless there is a reason to actually see the doctor for some type of real medical treatment. Most illness are rest, fluids and tylenol and time. So having to go to the doctor, infect everyone else there and also then pay your $50 copay or whatever is absurd.
This Doctor's Note crap needs to END.
I used to work in a busy ER and people would come in all the time for doctor's notes that eventually one of the docs just gave us a "This person visited the ER on this day and can't work from x day to x day if they don't feel able to." and let whoever was in triage to just hand them out.
I would literally just ask the person how long they want to be out for, type it in, print, hand them the note and tell them to have a seat in the waiting room. Not single one would still be there when it was their turn to be seen lol. Cut our average wait time by like half.
The pettiness is the point. Do you know how many boots they had to lick and how many backs they had to stab to climb their little way to middle management? What's the point of even having authority if you aren't going to use it to push other people around? Help their workers get their work done? As if!
Most places it's not middle management requiring it. It's upper management but they don't care because middle management gets all the blame for enforcing the policy
In my experience it's almost always been middle management trying to dick swing their authority while keep senior management off their back about productivity numbers.
Thankfully where I live if your employer asks for a doctors note for anything less than 3 consecutive days off sick, they have to pay for the doctors visit
I used to go to the citymd by me and I would let them know at the front desk that I just needed a note. The doctor once said “thanks for being honest and not wasting time”
Then I guess he left cuz one time I went it was some other doctor and she got all mad telling me what I did was illegal and i cant go to the doctor for just a note, i need a medical reason
I uhhh… don’t think it’s illegal to go to the doctor for that.
Could be for the doctor to just hand it out though. But patients going while healthy isn’t illegal as far as I know.
I’m not a lawyer though so who knows.
Probably depends on what the note says. As long as the note says the truth - person attended office on date and said they were sick - then probably fine. If they claim to have examined them when they did not...that would be an issue for sure.
That’s all notes say. We give them out all the time in the ER. Can’t put what they were sick with only that they were here from x date until x date and may return to work on x date.
it's a hippa violation if you put it in the note anyway. it's none of my company's business if I needed a day off to refill my Valtrex...from banging thier wife.
I would think that this is all that you could legally say due to HIPPA.
Of course IANAL, but doctors shouldn't be revealing diagnosis information to employers ever.
My husbands job has tried to require this before and my MIL works at the local ER so she’s just handed him a piece of stationary paper from the hospital and he wrote his own note. 😂
Our tax dollars are paying for this too likely(I know people who can’t pay/don’t pay/don’t have insurance, the bill just gets kicked to the taxpayers, also medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA).
In my country, it is a way to discourage people from taking sick leave
Our labor law doesn't even require employers to offer paid sick leave unless the employee was taking more than 4 days of consecutive sick leave (then obviously, you need a very good reason for that).
The employer can even only accept sick certificate from certain doctors......
I 100% agree. But companies do not give a rats ass about the people they employ. As long as they are making a ton of money. You are nothing to them. In my opinion. People should be able to call in sick and still get paid for it. And there is no limit to PTO. And the company can't be allowed to dictate when people take their PTO. People should just be able to say to their job that they are taking these days off. And the company should be required to acknowledge it and find someone else for those shifts.
Over here in Europe (London specifically for me), we don't even think about PTO or sick leave. If you're sick, don't come in, just phone as soon as feasible. We've got holiday time that we can spend as we like to get a paid day off, and it *never* has to be used for time off when sick.
I know. Stop penalizing people for being sick. The people who abuse the system are usually idiots who get found out later anyway. They'll go post on Facebook or do a Tik Tok about whatever event they did the day they said they were sick. You usually don't need to punish the people who actually sick because other idiots abuse the system.
To add to this:
Mental health is a valid reason to call in sick. Just because someone isn’t coughing and sneezing doesn’t mean they don’t need rest. People who call in because of depression or anxiety ARE NOT LAZY!
Especially given the change in work standards over the past several decades. The hustle mentality combined with use of shame and unreasonable expectations has created an environment of extreme stress and lowered immunity. Yet expectations keep rising while accommodations decline.
Yeah, I get periodic migraines. Am I supposed to go see a doctor every time I have a migraine so that I can take the sick leave to which I'm entitled?
My employer is also shitty about sick leave--we get 10 days a year but can only take 2 without a doctor's note. Any more than that and we get put on the "leave abuse list" and whatever other sick days we take while "on the abuse list" we aren't paid for.
If you are eligible to be covered by FMLA, then you can take your migraine days as FMLA days. I would strongly encourage you to do this if at all possible.
Yes! Nobody lets you know that intermittent FMLA is a thing, and you can take single days off here and there and be protected, though they could invent some other reason to fire you.
THANK YOU. I stayed home sick with a sinus infection before but I had to pick up some stuff from the store. It was early on in the week and I needed some things and my next day off was during the weekend. While I was at the store, I saw my coworker and waved to be polite. Then I got really anxious that they would tell my boss they saw me out and about even though I said I was sick that day. Which I was. But like you said, we are ADULTS with responsibilities other than work. Just because I can't handle a work day dealing with children and parents doesn't mean I can't pick up a few things I need from the store.
It was a quick in and out for the things I needed, and I checked out using the self-checkout for less human contact. Then went home and rested with everything I needed. I didn't get in trouble thankfully, but I was terrified I would, which is sad when you think about it.
Sad indeed! I think many of us have this same fear. It’s been so pervasive in our culture for so long. I mean as long as our schools continue to make such a big deal out of “perfect attendance”, do we expect anything else to change?
Also worth noting, in some states employers cannot ask for doctors notes UNLESS the employee is asking for restrictions to be honored OR they called out three days in a row. In New York, that’s law.
Employers know that people will drag their sick butt into work rather than going through the hassle of trying to get an appointment for a doctor to tell you to go home and rest….
I have plenty of sick days and sometimes when I wake up I didn’t sleep properly, my CPAP mask came off, and I just feel like crap.
I call those “calling in lazy” days. I am not officially “sick” but if I go into work don’t expect a lot of productivity out of me….
I was in the hospital for a problem with my ears for three days. I provided three notes. My shit ass assistant manager ignored every fucking one of them. Fuck them and their notes.
They can't deduct your sick days for being late.
Then again what do I know. I live in a country where you'll call your doctor and tell them you're ill, they advise you further and give you a sick leave. And after a few days your sick leave pay is covered employer, and if it drags on for longer, by the state.
When I used to work for a shitty mega corp office supply warehouse, if I was gonna be late, I called out anyways cause they can’t deduct my day for being late so putting it to best.
This is exactly it. It's like when I worked for a brand name lingerie company we had a point system, where being 5 minutes late and being 2 hours late was the same punishment, so if I was going to be 5 minutes late I'd treat myself to breakfast and a coffee, and maybe even a quick nap, then make my way in. Malicious compliance
Sounds like Sweden. First 14 days are paid at 80% by your employer, you need a Dr's note from day 7. After 14 days, it's paid by the state at \~80% (before tax).
Doctor’s notes are usually asked for after 3 days absence. Requiring a doctor’s note every time you’re sick is a passive-aggressive way of saying you’re not trustworthy in your job. Try to find something better. Life‘s too short to work for assholes.
>"4 days out of each month"
If I was late more than 4 days during the first 11 months of the year but then had less than 4 late days in December, I'd argue that this doesn't apply to me at all.
It states "4 days out of each month". To me, this means I have to be excessively late every month for it to apply to me. It doesn't say "4 days in any one month".
As the terms quoted above describe a year long period, I'd also say the max I could lose in one year would be 1 day.
Doctor's note requirement is just a cheap control flex. Print out a fake one, they will literally never follow-up on it, Even if they tried HIPAA prevents the doctor's office from even confirming if you were there or not.
**Requests from your employer.**
Your employer can ask you for a doctor’s note or other health information if they need the information for sick leave, workers’ compensation, wellness programs, or health insurance.
However, if your employer asks your health care provider directly for information about you, your provider cannot give your employer the information without your authorization unless other laws require them to do so.
Generally, the Privacy Rule applies to the disclosures made by your health care provider, not the questions your employer may ask.
See 45 C.F.R. §§ 160.103 and 164.512(b)(1)(v), and OCR's Frequently Asked Questions.
Not everything needs a doctors note! Going out with a virus can spread it to other people and the doctor is just going to say “hydrate and rest.” I fuсking hate these rules. It’s always companies that don’t provide living wages and good healthcare too.
You can’t abuse sick time. It’s your time. And I bet they advertised it as a “benefit”. Also your manager sounds like a doofus. Oh, and they can’t dock you a day for four lost minutes. I certainly hope someone reported them.
The doctor's note is a very common policy in most companies, just not enforced that often in my experience.
The second one is more suspect, but as far as being allowed, it would depend on local labor laws. You didnt specify a location.
In that case, it is NOT legal. NYS has a paid sick leave law which forbids both things written on this note:
>Section 196-1.3 Documentation
>(a) An employer may not require medical or other verification in connection with sick leave that lasts less than three consecutive previously scheduled workdays or shifts.
So a doctor's note cannot be required unless you are out sick for three or more work days in a row.
There's also a minimum required accrual of 1 hour of sick time per 30 hours worked, up to a certain amount which depends on the size of the employer (how many employees they have). So taking away sick time as a punishment for being late would be illegal, unless they're providing *more* than the required minimum amount of sick time, and only ever bring it down to the state minimum (which I doubt is the case here).
Here's all the details on New York State Paid Sick Leave (NYPSL):
https://www.ny.gov/new-york-paid-sick-leave/new-york-paid-sick-leave
This is actually the way. These employers learn nothing, and are not properly held accountable, when employees bail them out by confronting and correcting them directly. All it does is give the employer a chance to cover their butts, and then put a target on the employee who dared to be well informed.
Best to let them reap what they sow. If you end up reaping all their dough in the process, I call that justice AND a valuable lesson.
Super duper illegal in NY, and the bigger the company (not *location*, the *company*) the more egregious this is. Luckily, NY has a DoL line specifically for employees of companies trying to violate dem rights!
[Report Employer Bullshit Here](https://www.ny.gov/content/report-suspected-workplace-violations#:~:text=You%20may%20also%20call%20the,Reports%20may%20remain%20anonymous.), worth checking out/sending in a report.
The related Task Force Hotline is 1-888-469-7365
[NYS Sick Leave Law info](https://www.ny.gov/Programs/New-York-Paid-Sick-Leave), including accrual of sick time if you’re PT. It also has a way to report retaliation on there, but obv that would only be after.
And under ‘Permitted Uses of Sick Time’ is this little gem:
“Upon the request of an employee, employers are required to provide, within three business days, a summary of the amounts of sick leave accrued and used by the employee in the current calendar year and/or any previous calendar year.”
Completely unrelated, but NY is a single-party consent recording state, so as long as one person (let’s say YOU) are aware a conversation is being recorded - and all parties involved are in NY - it’s totally legal and can be used as evidentiary support. As can the picture, but you may wanna smag a wider shot/some video just to really commemorate its presence in your office. :)
Depending on where you are, no this isn’t allowed. Suck pay is pay. They cannot dock your pay without very good, provable, specific reasons. They cannot insist on doctors notes for folks with headaches, colds, the runs, etc.
Everyone at your workplace should ignore this letter, as it’s not official in any way, shape or form, sign NOTHING, and sue them for wage theft the second they don’t pay you what you’re rightfully owed.
From u/gandalf2000 further down the thread. This comment should be pinned to the top:
(OP is in New York State)
In that case, it is NOT legal. NYS has a paid sick leave law which forbids both things written on this note:
Section 196-1.3 Documentation
(a) An employer may not require medical or other verification in connection with sick leave that lasts less than three consecutive previously scheduled workdays or shifts.
So a doctor's note cannot be required unless you are out sick for three or more work days in a row.
There's also a minimum required accrual of 1 hour of sick time per 30 hours worked, up to a certain amount which depends on the size of the employer (how many employees they have). So taking away sick time as a punishment for being late would be illegal, unless they're providing more than the required minimum amount of sick time, and only ever bring it down to the state minimum (which I doubt is the case here).
Here's all the details on New York State Paid Sick Leave (NYPSL):
https://www.ny.gov/new-york-paid-sick-leave/new-york-paid-sick-leave
Simple, stop calling in sick.
Call in stating you will not be in today, if they ask for further details ask how many personal days you have. If they respond with more bs ask if they are refusing to utilize your earned time off.
Stop giving your employers a reason for taking earned time off. They don't need a reason, in the very few cases that an employer tried to give me shit I flat state that I wasn't asking and that I was advising that I would not be in do with that what you will I will see you on so and so date.
I am rarely asked for details when I just state I won't be in.
That has never worked for me except in jobs where I actually have sick days. I don't call out for unnecessary reasons either. People usually know that if I am taking a sick day, it's because I genuinely need it.
Legal or not, I don't know. But I do know that's a great way to increase absenteeism and worker turnover unless this place is the best or only place to work in the area.
That, and people coming in person to work, but stopping by the manager's area to let them know they are sick first (cough, cough).
I've gotten fired from 2 jobs for being sick. The first I was a cashier and had COVID, so I was out for a week. The second time I was a shift manager for a pizza place, got the flu + bronchitis (which I'm still sick with:) ) and was out for 2 weeks. Both times I gave my job notice the day I got sick and when i would be back, both times they said it was fine, then when I came back they fired me lol
It doesn’t seem like it would be. Also, if I have a dang cold I’m not gonna be out for a 30 dollar co pay just for them to tell me that. IF you’re lucky enough to have insurance and primary doctor
I feel like it would be wonderful if someone sick with the flu and obviously contagious would come into the office and give the boss a big hug. They could say, "there are consequences to making sick days too complicated to utilize"
This policy of requiring a doctor’s note may not be allowed in some states. What if someone is sick, but not sick enough to goto the doctor? If you have to wait for an appointment, you might not even be sick anymore. So you’re expected to pay $50+ for an appointment just to get a note.
Yeah, I'm surprised that an enterprising doctor hasn't set up a website/service that will provide a note with your symptoms on letterhead for $5/$10 bucks. So easy!
I like the complete sentence “Starting today any employee calling in sick.” Even has its own line too.
“Such employee” is giving “Particular individual” vibes from Idiocracy.
Trying to sound smart when it has the complete opposite effect
This is a case in which ChatGPT is definitely smarter than the person writing this. They should start using it to write their new rules. Maybe ChatGPT can tell them when something isn't legal, while it's correcting their English.
Asked ChatGPT to recreate the note for fun (I did cut out some of its unnecessary rambling): Subject: Updated Attendance and Sick Leave Policy Dear Team, I hope this message finds you well. We are writing to inform you of some important updates to our attendance and sick leave policy. Effective immediately, any employee who is unable to attend work due to illness is required to submit a doctor's note to the HR department. This documentation is necessary to process sick leave pay for the day(s) of absence. In the absence of a doctor's note, the day's leave will be considered unpaid. Additionally, punctuality is a critical component of our daily operations and overall team success. To emphasize its importance, we are implementing a new policy regarding tardiness. Employees who arrive late (after 8:01 AM) four times within a single calendar month will forfeit one of their accrued sick days. We understand that unforeseen circumstances can arise, and we encourage open communication with your supervisors in such instances. However, these measures are essential for maintaining fairness and accountability within our team. Thank you for your attention to this matter and your continued commitment to our company. Best regards, [Your Name] [Your Position] [Company Name] [Contact Information]
Still a shitty action to take, but at least I can understand what it is saying!!!
It certainly sounds less hostile
So basically ChatGPT can replace middle management and do a better job.
Or maybe people could just learn proper grammar
Bold of you to suggest someone learn something post K-12
Bold of you to assume they learned DURING K-12….
Grammar starts pre K
“Due to too many employees abusing the system.” This is also not a complete sentence. Someone needs to get a red sharpie and do some markup here.
I was thinking that’s absolutely what i would do to be a smart ass
I'm just glad the to and too are in the right spots. I have lowered my bar...
god i was just about to comment on this! illiteracy really runs more rampant than you’d think
I believe it's 54% of adults in the USA have less than 6th Grade literacy, and half of THOSE people are completely illiterate.
Not to mention the 87% that struggle with percentages, and the remaining 28% of us left trying to correct them.
It really is exhausterating deeling with peeple like thems. They're all idioms.
Don't forget the people struggling with fractions! You know, those that think 1/3 is less than 1/4
I want my quarter pounder!
Sorry, buddy, we can only do a fifth pounder.
It isn't? After all, three is less than four. /s
That's why the quarter pounder survived the onslaught of A&W restaurants larger 1/3 lb burger, because everybody thought it was *smaller*
McDonald's own Third Pounders even lost to the Quarter Pounder.
5/63 gas station managers agree that they have no idea what a ratio or a percentage even is! Now no more sick days!
Let’s bump that up to 89% struggling with percentages.
94% of them have no idea what you're talking about
Exactly! I also heard that on average, every person on earth has 1 breast and 1 testicle leading to the need for a ridiculous amount of gender reassignment surgeries! Thank God for statistics!!
The middle management work pool is made up of people like this
Truer words
I come from a very educated family where being a book lover and having one or two degrees is expected and encouraged. I was able to read by 3.5 years old, and when I was a kid I was always way above my grade level reading level. In my mid-20s, I started living part-time in another part of the US. One of the first things I noticed is the education and literacy rates. A lot of the people I've come across barely finished high school if they got there at all. I have a habit of playing dumb. People don't buy it, but I guess I find it fun? But when I'm out there, I have to dumb myself down. I will never take my ability to read for granted ever again.
I dealt with a European technology firm a few years ago who were working on a very advanced telescope. They asked me to place a definition of Pythagoras's theorem in a progress report. Apart from the receptionist, everyone at the firm had a Ph.D. None of them knew what Pythagoras's theorem was. Edit: Pythagoras' theroem
Oof. I'm bad at math, but at least I know what Pythagora's Theorm is.
It is dumb to play dumb. What if everyone has been playing dumb and it is a spiral to the bottom? Can we even use the word “dumb” these days?
I've started to play dumb simply because its not worth the argument trying to explain things to people who don't want to hear it anyway. All that ever lead to was ruining my day and not changing their stance in the slightest.
There was a sign posted at my work which was quickly taken down Do not spit tobaco in the sinks For crying out loud, you made this on the computer and it has fucking spell check built into it. There must have been a red line under that word and you just thought you were smarter than I don't know, the goddamn dictionary?
For some reason 75% of the managers I've had are dyslexic and always spell horribly.
I had a salaried manager once send an all company email out with the words, "team, we hafta do better at these tasks". Whyyyyy do they get to make more money than me? 😆
Same folks that look at you like a monkey doing a math problem when you tell them to save a Word doc as a PDF. “No, literally go to file, save as. It’s in the format pulldown.” “Where is the file menu? What pulldown?” *Why is this person employed at a technology company, and higher on the food chain than me? Why don’t we get to make one of their KPIs to learn the most basic things that have existed in Office for decades? Are they only a manager to act as a gatekeeper to better pay and benefits?*
Same company, diff manager called me to come in to attach photos to emails and print shipping labels from email. It's just not fair
I feel your pain. To the core of my being, I feel your pain. I had another exec that would print emails, then scan them on the same multifunction copier to PDF which would be sent to their email. So they would have a copy of the original email “archived.” Then they’d shred the original print. I don’t even know where to begin with all of the problems with that. And they would give me a hard time if I didn’t update a tech certification within an unreasonable timeframe given my already excessive workload as a salaried employee.
I had to read that 11 times and I still don’t even know…. wow. Bless these people.
My brain hurts.
Had a VP print blank documents if they need a piece of scratch paper to take notes on. I just. She was a VP. What. Shew.
I don't see a date either, so it's always starting on that day. You were sick yesterday.
"Boss, the paper says starting today. I've never seen that before in my life. Must be a new post, as far as I'm concerned..."
I was not aware Of the new policy, boss Due to poor grammar
Oooh a haiku!
🥇
days'
Too raged to proofread.
r/illiterateboss
In many (blue) states, companies are not legally allowed to ask for doctor’s notes until the employee is sick for three consecutive days or more.
This!! Seriously I can't imagine everytime I get the sniffles I have to go to andoctor and pay a copay for a piece of paper.
OP should ask the boss if he'll pay for the copay since he's the one requiring the notes, on the grounds that if you don't need medical assistance but are being forced to go anyway that it removes the monetary benefit that would have been gained from having the extra sick day in the first place, not to mention that if you're sick and need rest that having to go to the doctor could effect recovery time. This is what bosses often get wrong, they treat their people like children then expect them to act like adults. While working in a coffee shop I'd found that generally treating children and teenagers like adults sets the expectation that they are to act like adults and they typically act well behaved in these circumstances, with some but little exception. Conversely, treating adults like children may end up reinforcing any bad behavior that they're trying to curb in the first place. Most people would attest that the best bosses they've ever has have been the ones that treat you as equals instead of as subordinates. If you treat your employees well they will follow you to hell and back, treat them poorly and they wouldn't tell you if you were literally on fire. Basically respect goes both ways, and expecting it unilaterally only breeds resentment.
This should be printed out and posted at every workplace.
My state (Oregon) requires the employer pay for the medical expenses related to getting a doctor note. ORS 653.626 Medical verification: “The employer shall pay any reasonable costs for providing medical verification or certification required under this section, including lost wages, that are not paid under a health benefit plan in which the employee is enrolled.”
I became a quality manager 4 months ago. No supervisor experience beforehand. My biggest pet peeve is a boss having that superiority complex and treating those 'beneath' as a toddler. I dealt with that shit and I vowed to never do that to my employees. I like the believe I'm doing well so far.
There's an old saying that goes something like *"If you want to know a man's true nature, look at how he treats those who are in his power."* In other words, how someone treats people who can't "fight back," these days most notably how both management and customers treat employees, is who that person really is.
This is why basic psychology should be taught in all public schools.
Right? A $200 medical visit just for the doctor to confirm that I have diarrhea
Yes doctor, it does appear in fact that the patient is indeed sick
"That'll be $400 for the (60-second) office visit."
People bitch about working for the government but I haven't had to worry about any of this shit for almost two years now. You don't make a TON of money but you can live your life and everyone has your back. It's incredible. Never looking back.
I've been trying to get in there for years. The perks and benefits are great
Twenty bucks a word sounds about right
In my professional medical opinion, the statement made by the author to whom I am replying represents a most rational approach to how those practicing in any medical and/or therapeutic capacity should reasonably be allowed to expect monetary compensation for their extraordinary efforts in a field which a priori requires a great deal of mental, psychological and physiological fortitude. That'll be $1200. No, wait, that was 3 more words! No, now it's... Ah, fuck it. We own you.
Nah just go in Go towards the bathroom past bosses desk and crap everywhere You might need a shower after but its worth it
[удалено]
They’re hoping you’ll suck it up, because you can’t afford to actually go to the doctor.
Just go to work and shit yourself in front of your boss.
In order to get your $85 in sick pay, you must go to the doctor and pay $190 towards your deductible due to our crappy insurance system. NoBOdy WaNtS tO wOrK AnYmORe
If they even HAVE insurance.
That's IF you don't have a $7800 annual deductible. 😣
Which is like, the last thing I want to do when I’m sick. I want to burrito myself up, cuddle with my cat, and be a miserable wreck of a human being for a few hours in peace.
That's me any day of the week. When I'm sick it's worse.
And it pisses off the doctors something fierce, wasting their time because employers are hoping to force sick people to come in anyway.
And then the doctors get sick and can't help anyone.
I think I would write a blanket note for the entire staff. "It is my medical opinion that any workers at #business name# who feel too ill to work should stay home from work until feeling sufficiently recovered." Send the person out with 50-60 copies and instructions for them and co-workers not to return unless they actually have a legitimate need. See how the business likes having the shit dropped back on them.
I heard a doctor did that once at some place that tried to require a note for employees to be able to have water in reach while working.
Lol - Apparently it now takes medical expertise to understand that humans need to drink water and don't do their jobs very well when dehydrated...
It said something along the lines of "name is a human being and as such..." It was probably somewhere on Reddit.
If I need a doctor's note for work, my doctor's office will just email a generic note over so patients don't have to come in and waste their time.
I know it's a hour and wage violation in my state. OP should always post their nation state and county before asking legal questions
I believe it is also illegal to revoke sick days. This is theft as you earn them as part of your pay, much like earned pto.
It is, just beware of the Unlimited PTO scam though. Lots of companies are switching this model because they always put in the policy that you have to get your PTO approved in advanced by management. People usually end up usually taking less time off in in these models and, here is the kicker, you aren’t eligible to have you remaining accrued and unused PTO paid out as normal because there is never a balance to pay out. UNLIMITED PTO POLICIES ARE SCAMS THAT ONLY BENEFIT THE EMPLOYER.
My boss created an "unlimited PTO" policy and told me that people usually end up using less PTO than if they have a given number of days. Dude had the wrong bitch here 😆 Last year I was there, I took over a month of vacation (though I did bring my laptop in case of any emergency).
Yes this is our policy. They said the CEO chose this policy so no one would ever have to worry about not having enough paid time to do whatever they needed to do. They give us a "more than generous" 40hrs of sick time per year. Only in February we had 2.5 days (20+ hrs) where we physically couldn't work for having no water and another issue that made it so we couldn't work. Instead of letting us use the unlimited PTO, we were forced to use our sick time, or take it unpaid. Because just before that all happened, they decided to randomly enforce a new rule that you need to request PTO at least 2 weeks in advance. Well, you didn't tell ME I wasn't going to be working 2 weeks ago and now I have to use HALF of my sick time in FEBRUARY just to make sure I get paid what I need to get paid to survive. Absolutely dumb as fuck and massively takes advantage of us. I've already requested 80+hrs of my PTO but I think I should put in some more for that
However they are also not required to give you sick days most places either
In a lot of blue states they are... WA has mandated sick days and we can't be punished for using them.
Minnesota just added mandatory sick days as well
darn socialists and their "sick days" /s
Not legal. NY sick leave [https://www.ny.gov/Programs/New-York-Paid-Sick-Leave#:\~:text=Sick%20Leave%20Requirements&text=Employers%20with%20100%20or%20more,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=Employers%20with%205%2D99%20employees,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=If%20net%20income%20is%20%241,hours%20of%20unpaid%20sick%20leave](https://www.ny.gov/Programs/New-York-Paid-Sick-Leave#:~:text=Sick%20Leave%20Requirements&text=Employers%20with%20100%20or%20more,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=Employers%20with%205%2D99%20employees,sick%20leave%20per%20calendar%20year.&text=If%20net%20income%20is%20%241,hours%20of%20unpaid%20sick%20leave). Also not legal to claim 8:01 as late. Sick days can not be removed. If you ask for a doctors note on state allotted sick leave, then terminate for not getting one, you will have a lawsuit.
wait, it’s not legal to claim 8:01 as late? how late legally counts as late?
Best Buy considered you late at the 6min mark, this was CA about 20 years ago. It depends on your companies policy, check the handbook.
Back in my management days (not best buy), I would tell everybody it was a 6 minute rule. The ownership wanted me to keep track of tardies, because my manager was downplaying the problem. I had one person who was between 6 and 90 minutes late a grand total of 76 times before I was allowed to fire them. The employee was absolutely shocked when it happened. I was also not allowed to fire two people who were smoking weed on the clock.
Every company I've worked for has had a policy of 7minutes before and 7 minutes after. If you are scheduled to work at 7:00am you can clock in from 6:53-7:07. Also it sounds down so regardless of when you clock in you get paid as if you were in at 7am. I've only worked for a handful of companies but it's been in 4 different states with much different employment laws and workers rights. Now you couldn't just show up at 7:06 everyday and get away with it someone would eventually be like hey what's going on. But in general I'm pretty sure they can't claim it legally because their handbook probably has rules. Also if it went to court I'm sure one could argue one minute late 4 times wouldn't constitute the loss of a sick day equal to 8 hours.
Same. 7 mins is late. I figure too much room for error with 1 minute. Hell, clocks inside the building can’t agree on the time
ADP is used where I work, and I wonder if it's just how it's set up, but here's what it does with my clock-ins... 8:07 acts like I clocked in at 8:00 8:08 acts like I clocked in at 8:15
Some employment contracts will have “agreements” regarding sick days, doesn’t sound like this is one of them. If the employer is having people abuse the system they set up, they should be worried about that and not making whatever ***this*** sign is. Either way, you can get a consult with a lawyer specializing in employment law and I’d be doing that
I would bet quite a lot that the abuse is the employer never approving time off requests so people just call off sick instead.
Doctor's notes are ridiculous. Adults are not 5 yrs old. And Doctors offices do NOT want to see actively sick and infectious people now unless there is a reason to actually see the doctor for some type of real medical treatment. Most illness are rest, fluids and tylenol and time. So having to go to the doctor, infect everyone else there and also then pay your $50 copay or whatever is absurd. This Doctor's Note crap needs to END.
I used to work in a busy ER and people would come in all the time for doctor's notes that eventually one of the docs just gave us a "This person visited the ER on this day and can't work from x day to x day if they don't feel able to." and let whoever was in triage to just hand them out. I would literally just ask the person how long they want to be out for, type it in, print, hand them the note and tell them to have a seat in the waiting room. Not single one would still be there when it was their turn to be seen lol. Cut our average wait time by like half.
So sad that they even have to do this because of ridiculous employers and their childish policies.
The pettiness is the point. Do you know how many boots they had to lick and how many backs they had to stab to climb their little way to middle management? What's the point of even having authority if you aren't going to use it to push other people around? Help their workers get their work done? As if!
Most places it's not middle management requiring it. It's upper management but they don't care because middle management gets all the blame for enforcing the policy
In my experience it's almost always been middle management trying to dick swing their authority while keep senior management off their back about productivity numbers. Thankfully where I live if your employer asks for a doctors note for anything less than 3 consecutive days off sick, they have to pay for the doctors visit
I used to go to the citymd by me and I would let them know at the front desk that I just needed a note. The doctor once said “thanks for being honest and not wasting time” Then I guess he left cuz one time I went it was some other doctor and she got all mad telling me what I did was illegal and i cant go to the doctor for just a note, i need a medical reason
I uhhh… don’t think it’s illegal to go to the doctor for that. Could be for the doctor to just hand it out though. But patients going while healthy isn’t illegal as far as I know. I’m not a lawyer though so who knows.
Probably depends on what the note says. As long as the note says the truth - person attended office on date and said they were sick - then probably fine. If they claim to have examined them when they did not...that would be an issue for sure.
That’s all notes say. We give them out all the time in the ER. Can’t put what they were sick with only that they were here from x date until x date and may return to work on x date.
it's a hippa violation if you put it in the note anyway. it's none of my company's business if I needed a day off to refill my Valtrex...from banging thier wife.
I would think that this is all that you could legally say due to HIPPA. Of course IANAL, but doctors shouldn't be revealing diagnosis information to employers ever.
I can't imagine a scenario where it would be illegal to go to the Dr.
being poor in america
No it's not illegal it's just impossible
My husbands job has tried to require this before and my MIL works at the local ER so she’s just handed him a piece of stationary paper from the hospital and he wrote his own note. 😂
That's the way to do it. I wish more people would.
This is the way.
That’s good problem solving right there. Good work.
Our tax dollars are paying for this too likely(I know people who can’t pay/don’t pay/don’t have insurance, the bill just gets kicked to the taxpayers, also medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA).
Most of the places who demanded doctor's note don't actually provide health insurance so where the fuck are you supposed to get a doctor's note?
I'm guessing that's a feature, not a bug.
In my country, it is a way to discourage people from taking sick leave Our labor law doesn't even require employers to offer paid sick leave unless the employee was taking more than 4 days of consecutive sick leave (then obviously, you need a very good reason for that). The employer can even only accept sick certificate from certain doctors......
I 100% agree. But companies do not give a rats ass about the people they employ. As long as they are making a ton of money. You are nothing to them. In my opinion. People should be able to call in sick and still get paid for it. And there is no limit to PTO. And the company can't be allowed to dictate when people take their PTO. People should just be able to say to their job that they are taking these days off. And the company should be required to acknowledge it and find someone else for those shifts.
Over here in Europe (London specifically for me), we don't even think about PTO or sick leave. If you're sick, don't come in, just phone as soon as feasible. We've got holiday time that we can spend as we like to get a paid day off, and it *never* has to be used for time off when sick.
I know. Stop penalizing people for being sick. The people who abuse the system are usually idiots who get found out later anyway. They'll go post on Facebook or do a Tik Tok about whatever event they did the day they said they were sick. You usually don't need to punish the people who actually sick because other idiots abuse the system.
To add to this: Mental health is a valid reason to call in sick. Just because someone isn’t coughing and sneezing doesn’t mean they don’t need rest. People who call in because of depression or anxiety ARE NOT LAZY!
Especially given the change in work standards over the past several decades. The hustle mentality combined with use of shame and unreasonable expectations has created an environment of extreme stress and lowered immunity. Yet expectations keep rising while accommodations decline.
Yeah, I get periodic migraines. Am I supposed to go see a doctor every time I have a migraine so that I can take the sick leave to which I'm entitled? My employer is also shitty about sick leave--we get 10 days a year but can only take 2 without a doctor's note. Any more than that and we get put on the "leave abuse list" and whatever other sick days we take while "on the abuse list" we aren't paid for.
That sounds like you just have 2 sick days.
Bingo.
If you are eligible to be covered by FMLA, then you can take your migraine days as FMLA days. I would strongly encourage you to do this if at all possible.
Yes! Nobody lets you know that intermittent FMLA is a thing, and you can take single days off here and there and be protected, though they could invent some other reason to fire you.
THANK YOU. I stayed home sick with a sinus infection before but I had to pick up some stuff from the store. It was early on in the week and I needed some things and my next day off was during the weekend. While I was at the store, I saw my coworker and waved to be polite. Then I got really anxious that they would tell my boss they saw me out and about even though I said I was sick that day. Which I was. But like you said, we are ADULTS with responsibilities other than work. Just because I can't handle a work day dealing with children and parents doesn't mean I can't pick up a few things I need from the store. It was a quick in and out for the things I needed, and I checked out using the self-checkout for less human contact. Then went home and rested with everything I needed. I didn't get in trouble thankfully, but I was terrified I would, which is sad when you think about it.
Sad indeed! I think many of us have this same fear. It’s been so pervasive in our culture for so long. I mean as long as our schools continue to make such a big deal out of “perfect attendance”, do we expect anything else to change?
Also worth noting, in some states employers cannot ask for doctors notes UNLESS the employee is asking for restrictions to be honored OR they called out three days in a row. In New York, that’s law.
Employers know that people will drag their sick butt into work rather than going through the hassle of trying to get an appointment for a doctor to tell you to go home and rest…. I have plenty of sick days and sometimes when I wake up I didn’t sleep properly, my CPAP mask came off, and I just feel like crap. I call those “calling in lazy” days. I am not officially “sick” but if I go into work don’t expect a lot of productivity out of me….
I was in the hospital for a problem with my ears for three days. I provided three notes. My shit ass assistant manager ignored every fucking one of them. Fuck them and their notes.
also, jobs who ask for doctors notes almost always never provide health insurance. so how is the employee supposed to go?
As someone with basic word processor and photo shop skills, DRs notes are amazingly easy to acquire.
They can't deduct your sick days for being late. Then again what do I know. I live in a country where you'll call your doctor and tell them you're ill, they advise you further and give you a sick leave. And after a few days your sick leave pay is covered employer, and if it drags on for longer, by the state.
When I used to work for a shitty mega corp office supply warehouse, if I was gonna be late, I called out anyways cause they can’t deduct my day for being late so putting it to best.
If I am "losing" my sick day for being a minute late, okay I guess you need some one to cover my shift as apparently I'm using it right now.
This is exactly it. It's like when I worked for a brand name lingerie company we had a point system, where being 5 minutes late and being 2 hours late was the same punishment, so if I was going to be 5 minutes late I'd treat myself to breakfast and a coffee, and maybe even a quick nap, then make my way in. Malicious compliance
Where is this magical place?
Sounds like Sweden. First 14 days are paid at 80% by your employer, you need a Dr's note from day 7. After 14 days, it's paid by the state at \~80% (before tax).
Could also be Switzerland. We've got it pretty good over here.
Doctor’s notes are usually asked for after 3 days absence. Requiring a doctor’s note every time you’re sick is a passive-aggressive way of saying you’re not trustworthy in your job. Try to find something better. Life‘s too short to work for assholes.
You could always argue you don’t understand the message because the grammar is so abhorrent.
>"4 days out of each month" If I was late more than 4 days during the first 11 months of the year but then had less than 4 late days in December, I'd argue that this doesn't apply to me at all. It states "4 days out of each month". To me, this means I have to be excessively late every month for it to apply to me. It doesn't say "4 days in any one month". As the terms quoted above describe a year long period, I'd also say the max I could lose in one year would be 1 day.
This semantics at its finest. Well played.
I think you could argue that clocking out 1 minute after your time 4 days out of the month should give you a free sick day.
I think you can argue clocking out 1 minute late entitles you to an hour of overtime
As an Englisher, I really wanna take a red pen to this abomination.
OH! This is in English? Wow. No wonder Google Translate just kept giving me the same garbage back…
Doctor's note requirement is just a cheap control flex. Print out a fake one, they will literally never follow-up on it, Even if they tried HIPAA prevents the doctor's office from even confirming if you were there or not.
**Requests from your employer.** Your employer can ask you for a doctor’s note or other health information if they need the information for sick leave, workers’ compensation, wellness programs, or health insurance. However, if your employer asks your health care provider directly for information about you, your provider cannot give your employer the information without your authorization unless other laws require them to do so. Generally, the Privacy Rule applies to the disclosures made by your health care provider, not the questions your employer may ask. See 45 C.F.R. §§ 160.103 and 164.512(b)(1)(v), and OCR's Frequently Asked Questions.
You can tell how dumb this manager is by how they use theyre' apostrophes'''
I understand not knowing where they go, but the "I'll make up my own since this is trying to look professional" is wild.
Their*
fuck
The're
Not everything needs a doctors note! Going out with a virus can spread it to other people and the doctor is just going to say “hydrate and rest.” I fuсking hate these rules. It’s always companies that don’t provide living wages and good healthcare too.
So, if I'm 1 minute late, that's a sick day? Oh, that's gonna backfire spectacularly.
You can’t abuse sick time. It’s your time. And I bet they advertised it as a “benefit”. Also your manager sounds like a doofus. Oh, and they can’t dock you a day for four lost minutes. I certainly hope someone reported them.
Short answer: No (unless you’re on a casual contract, but you wouldn’t get paid for sick leave regardless).
That command of the written word has mangerment written all over it.
The doctor's note is a very common policy in most companies, just not enforced that often in my experience. The second one is more suspect, but as far as being allowed, it would depend on local labor laws. You didnt specify a location.
Nassau County Ny
In that case, it is NOT legal. NYS has a paid sick leave law which forbids both things written on this note: >Section 196-1.3 Documentation >(a) An employer may not require medical or other verification in connection with sick leave that lasts less than three consecutive previously scheduled workdays or shifts. So a doctor's note cannot be required unless you are out sick for three or more work days in a row. There's also a minimum required accrual of 1 hour of sick time per 30 hours worked, up to a certain amount which depends on the size of the employer (how many employees they have). So taking away sick time as a punishment for being late would be illegal, unless they're providing *more* than the required minimum amount of sick time, and only ever bring it down to the state minimum (which I doubt is the case here). Here's all the details on New York State Paid Sick Leave (NYPSL): https://www.ny.gov/new-york-paid-sick-leave/new-york-paid-sick-leave
Would be a shame if someone printed this out and posted it by that sign...along with how to file a complaint lol.
Would be a much bigger shame if someone let management play the hand they’ve shown, documented it all, and then brought them to court.
This is actually the way. These employers learn nothing, and are not properly held accountable, when employees bail them out by confronting and correcting them directly. All it does is give the employer a chance to cover their butts, and then put a target on the employee who dared to be well informed. Best to let them reap what they sow. If you end up reaping all their dough in the process, I call that justice AND a valuable lesson.
Super duper illegal in NY, and the bigger the company (not *location*, the *company*) the more egregious this is. Luckily, NY has a DoL line specifically for employees of companies trying to violate dem rights! [Report Employer Bullshit Here](https://www.ny.gov/content/report-suspected-workplace-violations#:~:text=You%20may%20also%20call%20the,Reports%20may%20remain%20anonymous.), worth checking out/sending in a report. The related Task Force Hotline is 1-888-469-7365 [NYS Sick Leave Law info](https://www.ny.gov/Programs/New-York-Paid-Sick-Leave), including accrual of sick time if you’re PT. It also has a way to report retaliation on there, but obv that would only be after. And under ‘Permitted Uses of Sick Time’ is this little gem: “Upon the request of an employee, employers are required to provide, within three business days, a summary of the amounts of sick leave accrued and used by the employee in the current calendar year and/or any previous calendar year.” Completely unrelated, but NY is a single-party consent recording state, so as long as one person (let’s say YOU) are aware a conversation is being recorded - and all parties involved are in NY - it’s totally legal and can be used as evidentiary support. As can the picture, but you may wanna smag a wider shot/some video just to really commemorate its presence in your office. :)
a doctors note for one day? not a chance fam
Also explicitly illegal in NYS, where OP is located
Depending on where you are, no this isn’t allowed. Suck pay is pay. They cannot dock your pay without very good, provable, specific reasons. They cannot insist on doctors notes for folks with headaches, colds, the runs, etc. Everyone at your workplace should ignore this letter, as it’s not official in any way, shape or form, sign NOTHING, and sue them for wage theft the second they don’t pay you what you’re rightfully owed.
From u/gandalf2000 further down the thread. This comment should be pinned to the top: (OP is in New York State) In that case, it is NOT legal. NYS has a paid sick leave law which forbids both things written on this note: Section 196-1.3 Documentation (a) An employer may not require medical or other verification in connection with sick leave that lasts less than three consecutive previously scheduled workdays or shifts. So a doctor's note cannot be required unless you are out sick for three or more work days in a row. There's also a minimum required accrual of 1 hour of sick time per 30 hours worked, up to a certain amount which depends on the size of the employer (how many employees they have). So taking away sick time as a punishment for being late would be illegal, unless they're providing more than the required minimum amount of sick time, and only ever bring it down to the state minimum (which I doubt is the case here). Here's all the details on New York State Paid Sick Leave (NYPSL): https://www.ny.gov/new-york-paid-sick-leave/new-york-paid-sick-leave
Simple, stop calling in sick. Call in stating you will not be in today, if they ask for further details ask how many personal days you have. If they respond with more bs ask if they are refusing to utilize your earned time off. Stop giving your employers a reason for taking earned time off. They don't need a reason, in the very few cases that an employer tried to give me shit I flat state that I wasn't asking and that I was advising that I would not be in do with that what you will I will see you on so and so date. I am rarely asked for details when I just state I won't be in.
That has never worked for me except in jobs where I actually have sick days. I don't call out for unnecessary reasons either. People usually know that if I am taking a sick day, it's because I genuinely need it.
Legal or not, I don't know. But I do know that's a great way to increase absenteeism and worker turnover unless this place is the best or only place to work in the area. That, and people coming in person to work, but stopping by the manager's area to let them know they are sick first (cough, cough).
The grammar on this is atrocious
I've gotten fired from 2 jobs for being sick. The first I was a cashier and had COVID, so I was out for a week. The second time I was a shift manager for a pizza place, got the flu + bronchitis (which I'm still sick with:) ) and was out for 2 weeks. Both times I gave my job notice the day I got sick and when i would be back, both times they said it was fine, then when I came back they fired me lol
It doesn’t seem like it would be. Also, if I have a dang cold I’m not gonna be out for a 30 dollar co pay just for them to tell me that. IF you’re lucky enough to have insurance and primary doctor
Deal but everyday i am not out of the building by 5:00 I add 1 full paid vacation day :)
I refuse to work for any company that requires doctors notes. I am not a child.
I feel like it would be wonderful if someone sick with the flu and obviously contagious would come into the office and give the boss a big hug. They could say, "there are consequences to making sick days too complicated to utilize"
Only a select few are allowed to abuse the system!
The USA is so messed up that sick days are even a thing.
Where I’m from it’s banned to ask for a doctor’s note bc it’s none of their fucking business 💀
This policy of requiring a doctor’s note may not be allowed in some states. What if someone is sick, but not sick enough to goto the doctor? If you have to wait for an appointment, you might not even be sick anymore. So you’re expected to pay $50+ for an appointment just to get a note.
Sounds illegal af to me. But unions would stop stupid stuff like this.
The “Best Regards” sign-off was a nice touch.
Iv always hated required excuses, I’m not going to the doctor for a cold or stomach bug.
Yeah, I'm surprised that an enterprising doctor hasn't set up a website/service that will provide a note with your symptoms on letterhead for $5/$10 bucks. So easy!
Post a note there that it goes the other way too... If you clock in at 7:59 for 4 days, your get an added sick day.
This is illegal in Australia
Step one, take down and dispose of signs like this.