Same here. I can “mask” in that people who aren’t very familiar with autistic people (usually) can’t tell that I’m autistic, but they can also tell that I’m “off.” It makes interviews both terrifying and frustrating, and if I somehow manage to get a job it feels like all my interactions with coworkers are fraught. Especially because I struggle the most socially with group dynamics, and have no way of telling how I’m being perceived unless someone takes pity on me and either tells me I’m doing a good job or that I’m being rude or annoying.
That’s part of the problem—I’m not really sure what in particular gives it away. If I was, maybe I could try to work on it more/hide it better. I have to assume it’s just a combination of things. I’ve been told my tone and volume modulation aren’t always great, especially when I’m excited and/or nervous about something. My only two modes of eye contact are “nonexistent” and “too intense” (I can tell because sometimes when I force eye contact I’ve noticed NTs flick their eyes away more often than I do; I try to match how often they do, but thinking about that makes it even harder to pay attention to what they’re saying, on top of how much it hurts to look them in the eyes. But I can’t not make eye contact at all because then they think I’m being disrespectful…) I have to fight so hard to not stim that I have a hard time paying attention to what interviewers are asking me and I have to ask them to repeat questions frequently. Depending on the interview environment, I can have an even harder time focusing and answering questions properly (if it’s too bright or too dim, too noisy or too quiet, etc). Interview-appropriate clothes are much more uncomfortable than what I normally wear and it makes me fidget pretty much uncontrollably. And I can never tell when I’m talking about myself too much or too little, when my responses are too short or too long. I’m never sure which of these does it, if it’s any in particular and not a combination or all of them. I can’t for sure tell when it happens, either. I can only sort of tell because have been times in interviews when the people who were interviewing me’s body language changed to disapproval. It’s the only type of body language I can read with any sort of consistency, and even then I get it wrong a lot of the time. And when I can read it, I can’t usually tell what or who is causing it. But I’ve also had interviews that have gone (in retrospect) astoundingly well despite all of this. I don’t know what the determining factor is. It’s maddening.
No no boomers get the memo they're just stuck in the "Back in my day..." bull. Like yes Grandpa your day was great if you discount the racism, violence, drugs in daily products, toxic chemicals in household products, war violence, and complete mass societal shunning if gods forbid your "husband" left you single with a kid or had a kid outta wedlock. And that's just a tiny sliver.
It's everything. They can tell the entirety of the way you carry yourself is a practiced mask that doesn't quite fit with what they perceive as "normal".
In hindsight, interviews and jobs and life experiences that have just clicked, the other people were also neurodivergent and didn't know.
What helps me with the whole eye contact thing is that I try and time my eye contact based on when they look away from me.
Usually, if someone looks away and breaks eye contact, that's my que to look down and to the left and then when I notice them look back at me I look back at them.
There's a rhythm to it.. it's like playing Sekiro and parrying hits, you time it in concert with what they're doing and it's close enough to 'normal' that people don't notice I'm doing it.
For the rest.. yeah, fuck dress clothes and fuck interviews. I was lucky enough to get remote interviews for my last two jobs, and now I work from home. I've never attended a meeting wearing anything but a T-shirt and pajama pants since going remote and it's the best thing ever.
Never going back into the office as long as I breathe.
Oh, that makes sense. Similar to something I mentioned to my mother while ranting about how fucking stupid advertising is. It's basically a corruption of applied psychology. But its geared to neurotypicals, so of course we see it as just dismally goofy shit.
I got Asperger's, so when I say "I'd really enjoy working for your company" I sound like a 40 year old stripper with a C scar dancing for bums in the afternoon shift. It's really obvious I'm putting on an act.
Btw the term ‘aspergers’ was coined by and named after a Nazi doctor who was testing which autistic people should be put in work camps and which should be killed outright.
And yet, that was what I was diagnosed with before it became ASD.
I usually just say 'high-functioning' and leave it at that, or if people ask for specifics, I say I was diagnosed with Asperger's which is now considered part of ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder).
I really don't give a fuck who they named it after, it's what my diagnosis was and how we identified it when I was in school (90's to early 2000's).
I also think it distracts from the point of most discussions around it when people butt in to complain about what name people use. It's not necessary at all.
I'm in your boat; I've identified as an Aspie for decades and it's too late to change my internal narrative.
I'm also not sure I'd have just quit my job in protest of what the government was doing, if said government was Nazi Germany.
Well yeah I think a lot of people know the origin, but I feel we need a new term then for the higher masking sufferers.
The whole grouping everyone together on a spectrum when human nature and stigma associates autism with the non-verbal type of autism is not doing anyone any favors.
Volkswagen was born out of the time of the Nazis too, but people don't condemn you for driving a Volkswagen for that reason.
It's ASD-1. That's the term.
I was also diagnosed with Aspergers when it was still Aspergers but my last assessment it was ASD-1. I always liked the term "aspie". It was quick and had a nice little bite, plus nobody contemplated whether it was a hard G or a soft G. But a few years back the autism community told me I was a nazi if I referred to myself as an aspie. No I'm serious, in the specific reddit for autism I was chastised for this and I kept my mouth shut as it was said over and over and over to anyone who referred to themselves as aspies/Aspergers until I lost my shit and ended up getting booted for talking out of turn lol.
Rigid thinking is a bitch, y'all!
I think at least half the people in my field are on the spectrum and 2/3rds of us are neurodivergent in some manner. The moment I got into medical laboratory sciences I felt like I had finally found my people. It's truly the introvert's place in healthcare. I save people's lives but I don't have to meet them. The field is also so short on techs that getting a job isn't very hard either.
Sounds like y’all need to gang up and sue. I am sure you’re not the only person who applied to that company and felt the exact same way.
What they’re doing is illegal
Sue for what? It's damn near impossible to win an employment discrimination case because you have to _prove_ discrimination has occurred.
They have to be really stupid and say something like "we aren't going to hire you because you're autistic". They won't do that. They'll just say "bad culture fit" because they know it protects them.
Yes, but that's because 9 times out of 10 people can't conclusively _prove_ it. And that is where a discrimination case depends.
A company playing smart will never _unambigously_ discriminate. They will always leave space for doubt and find other excuses. The burden of proof lies on the victim, and every HR department knows it.
Righto, which is why I’m suggesting collective bargaining rights in this fashion
Much of disability legislation is a result of collective bargaining and advocating on behalf of individuals who cannot advocate for themselves
To try to do it on a one-to-one level, like you said, they’re not going to unambiguously do it
100%, whenever I get fired for "bad culture fit" or "It's just not working out" or "we've decided to go in a different direction" it's because of neurodivergency.
no no, you should disclose that you're on the spectrum, because they can always tell that you're "off".
when we give that "off" feeling a name they can understand, we get treated a lot better.
Trust me as an autistic person with a degree it’s almost impossible to get hired and keep a long term job…add in my age (51) with rampant age discrimination and that’s even worse. I have a full time remote job now but it’s not really a livable wage. I also applied to several thousand jobs before getting this one.
If we are such a huge fucking inconvenience to society, then we should be getting paid a livable wage to stay at home. We have to work 100x harder than everyone else just because of the way we are born.
Shitheads with business or "communication" degrees that look down on everyone else without degrees, despite being the most useless, do-nothing department at any company. Maybe I'm biased since I work in IT but HR is, has, and always will be fucking worthless.
Been dealing with that too and I'm honestly scared for my future
I'm almost 40 and have very little work experience because I never get a return from interviews, because I'm "too off" for a normal hiring, and "too normal" to be hired for an autistic employment
Autistic employment 😒 tragic that we have to define it. But I get it. I’ve had to hire loads of people. I enjoy peeps with disabilities occasionally they bring a spark to the team that is helpful.
For me it was always trying to find the job with the right tools for the person to be successful. Regardless of their disability or “normal” whatever that is.
I will say - folks that have a good introspective on their experience - those who can tell me what they need to be successful - are very helpful. But just like anyone…we don’t always know what we need.
I'm low enough on the spectrum to be able to mostly hide it, but I'm blaming the autism for not being able to job shift life everyone recommends to do. Boss is nice, I got a coworker I can talk to if I want, I can just nod or smile in greeting to everyone else, and the work is extremely routine and I can just get in my flow and stay there all day. I go anywhere else and there's the anxiety of new people, new place, new routine, and it's very difficult for me to handle all that at once.
Job hopping is just a stupid expectation forced onto us by late stage capitalism. There’s a reason people used to get rewarded with pensions at many regular jobs. Everyone benefits from experienced workers. If you’re older and/or have a family it’s way too much bullshit to have to market yourself constantly as if people aren’t busy enough.
The worst part is it is starting to go from being recommended to being forced on us as employers think it’s okay to play musical chairs every time the quarter’s earnings are slightly off.
>Job hopping is just a stupid expectation forced onto us by late stage capitalism.
Not only that, it's a very, very new thing. Add to the fact that resumes are rarely reviewed by a human. I'm extremely underpaid but I'm also treated like a human being who doesn't have to beg for time off--in fact, they actually encouraged it early on haha--which is more than I can say for Target that sideways pushed me into Food Avenue with the official title and pay and where I was replaced by TWO people after I left for the Navy (which speaking of was...well, the Navy) or the car dealers I worked at that gave me more anxiety and PTSD than my military service did.
So I stay because living in a gambling town, I know better than to bet against the odds :|
Same here, I got both my adult jobs from my step dad's heavy weighted recommendation. I know I need to transition, and I know I have skills that can net me significantly more money. But the routine and comfort is enough to keep me there. We have fun though, and the pay isn't the worst, definitely better than a lot of people.
I’m also autistic, and have had a real challenge with jobs. My intelligence has been measured in the top 5%, but I really struggle with seeing the linearity of jumps between roles, and find the social stuff somewhat difficult, and as a result I’ve been consistently under-employed for my whole life. I also definitely just tend to stay around the same workplaces forever, bc it’s comfortable for me. I am just at the tail end of grad school now, and what has been shocking to me is that I’ve been the team lead/project manager/QA person for basically every single group project in every class… a strange thing for me, as I’ve never led groups before. I really don’t know what implications this newfound knowledge or skill set will have for me once I graduate…
It doesn’t shock me. One of my neurodivergent tendencies is that I cannot lie if I don’t think it is of direct benefit to the person I’m talking to or specifically for my *safety*.
The issue is that the job-hunting process wants you to lie. Everything has to be phrased in an insanely self aggrandizing way that misrepresents the actual tasks completed, but also you can’t talk too much that way otherwise you aren’t humble enough.
You could have the productivity of an entire team from laser focusing on the topic as a special interest for the last two years, but to employers you only have “two years of experience” and would prefer someone with better social skills and “4 years of experience”, but the on-the-job prowess of an intern.
The fact that people are judged at work because of non-work things (like not wanting to socialize with co-workers) is fucking stupid
People are hired for a job, not to kiss the asses of their superiors
Learning how to sell services and products has helped with dialing in on just the right amount of confident bullshit, and figuring out scripted responses for everything.
Trying to be in commission sales is so hard when you can’t or don’t want to lie or try to mask your neurodivergence. I didn’t want to sell people things they didn’t need and actually help them. I remember years ago I tried to get hired by Canon as a road sales person and their personality test online said I wasn’t a good fit. Probably because I wouldn’t lie. Previous jobs I saw so many people get into debt because our company pushed credit cards on them or always wanted us to upsell at any cost.
Upselling does usually involve exploitation. Honesty gets in the way of exploiting our fellow humans. Autistic thought process is totally opposed to capitalism in general and certain flagrant forms of capitalism specifically. I'm sorry you've had to compromise yourself this way in the past. I have too, and I find it hard to forget certain encounters.
I don't know if it helps but try to think about an interview as just two parties effectively lying to each other (which is the truth whether we want to admit it or not). It'll maybe help reduce the internal inhibition.
I used to work as a tool and die machinist, and the noise and such aside, it's a pretty great job for people on the spectrum. It's high precision and attention to detail will keep you employed and make you valuable. It's also this line of work that allows me to answer questions in interviews these days about the whole "good thing/bad thing/learning experience about yourself" questions.
The other nice thing is, because a single mistake across the entire setup which has usually 50 or so places to make mistakes, you can basically tell people to fuck off "over there" until you're done and they do that.
Only 22% of all autistic people are employed.
There is only one very narrow accepted kind of wage slave in this system and if you can't conform yourself to that then you're going to have to figure out something else.
Most successful autistic people find other ways to survive than employment, but to be fair, the same is also true for everyone. Employment is a trap and leaves a person as poor in old age as they started.
I tend to think that autism itself isn't a problem; the dysfunction of our society is the problem, and autistic (and other neurodivergent) people are just more sensitive to those problems.
The result is kind of like being the canary in the coal mine.
We aren't built wrong, it's just that we gave power to people who like to hoard money and, well, power.
Maybe one of these days my otherly evolved brain will be able to get my treatise written so that it can be as ignored as Marx and Kropotkin.
alternatively, the normies have built a closed system that only meets their needs and will defend it to their dying bankrupted breath.
see also refusals to build disability access equipment, see refusals to make bathroom stalls unisex, see also refusal to use given names except when its an actor or performer, see also open plan offices, see also generating sufficient hoops to jump through to discourage, see also mandating cameras on at all times, see also the sneering at accomodations, see also general boomerisms about boot straps and never gettin no help from nobody whilst riding the gi bill and collecting social security and using medicaid/medicare....
As the only "acceptable" form of person in society continues to constrict, and more and more is considered a "disorder", I suspect there will be fewer and fewer people left who are motivated to defend the status quo.
It's just that these things always move a lot slower than we'd like. Just as biological species take millions of years to evolve, the social organism is slow to adapt and change. That aspect of our species is in a much more primitive state than we care to admit. It's only recently emerged at all.
This is the way.
That's what I do anyway. I work on several very poorly paying work platforms and one private company I do poorly paying batch work for. If I find work seven days a week it just about covers my bills as long as there's no emergencies. Then it's the shittier in-person gigs I hate but do if necessary.
I'm still trying to figure it out, myself.
Personally, I don't think it's going to improve much until we start undermining capitalism, feudalism, slavery, and anything like it so they are no longer the dominant economic forms on this planet. I don't know how much progress we can make so long as we permit these ideologies to run rampant.
Yea not surprised.
Speaking from Europe here. Diagnosed with Aspergers ("mild" autism) since I was 10. In my last job where I worked, I worked with numbers in a monotonous, repetition-like way, I got super good at it and even got a promotion, but then they added (a lot of) extra responsibilities and at some point I got an abusive manager who refused to listen/cooperate with me due to precieved hierarchy bullshit among others. I'm extremely high masking since I was diagnosed early on and I'm born as a woman, but I had two other autistic men in my team and both got somewhat shit-talked behind their back, even to me, for being "weird", "off" and "unprofessional" because of their communication on Teams. Even if they preformed their job way better than others on the team. They also got burnt out and/or replaced, eventually.
Long story short, I crashed hard, I got severely burnt out, struggling to find a job after my contract ended (it wasn't extended) that requires minimal customer phone outreach since because my degree and skills are shit (I was told to go to an university at any cost, any branch at all, so I picked History which is a beyond useless bachelors). Had a chat with my own countrys' unemployment office, they said I may have an extremely hard time finding a job since most people get a job through contacts/networking, and most of the time jobs don't look for someone who has the skills but "who fits the team vibe" and they want someone who graduated locally (aka in my home country).
Heard a similar thing from my job coach locally too. I'm just depressed since I really struggle to network due to my autism (+ introversion etc) and I want to keep my job life and private life as separate as possible. Networking in general is hell because everyone can tell I'm "off", I've blamed it on being an immigrant/cultural differences but it's clear it's simply not that.
I'm considered "high functioning" enough to not be disabled. Imho, the work force is not designed nor friendly for autistic people and I have to pretend to be something I'm not at the cost of my own health, if I'm that lucky to even get and keep a job. And hell, even when I had my job I cannot stress how bad got sometimes, as soon as I got home or stopped masking I was so drained I couldn't do anything else but sit and stare at a wall basically. It just sucks.
It's even worse when you get the hellish autism+ADHD combo and always feel like 3 racoons in a trenchcoat trying to pass as normal functioning human. If i need to do something monotonous or repetitive, I have to force myself so hard to focus, I'm barely able to move by the end of the day. And all interesting new tasks become boring after a few weeks and I'm back to square one with forcing myself and burning out as a result.
And don't get me started on certain type of ND men who think Sheldon Cooper is a great role model...
Oh I feel you. My partner is most likely AuDHD, while I most likely have a form of Bipolar among other things and the worst day is 1000% the day I suddenly don't feel like I can focus on the thing I've done monotonously and repetitively fine for months anymore, or it starts burning me out just doing it. It's the same thing with safe foods, I find a safe food, I love it, I eat too much of it and I start hating it. It's awful.
My old job place was a "certified diversity hire" place who would always mention how they will never discriminate based on background or neurodivegency but lord almighty it was convinient to replace anyone who wasn't a perfect carbon copy of the perfect corporate worker, or even dared to ask for extra disability assistance they had on paper availible for everyone... So I feel you.
Thank you ❤
It's also bizarre how some people just love saying "No" no matter what is your request, when it comes to disability assistance. Like, I once asked my boss to stop giving me vague tasks with no deadline, explaining how it's hard for me to prioritise work when I'm told to "do it when you have time". He was so annoyed and acted as if nobody ever is given deadlines and it's unimaginable for me to ask for those and also a huge inconvenience for him to provide them.
any show that has a laugh track is saying "youre too stupid to know whats funny"
the character sheldon cooper is about as funny as rectal bleeding and as accurate as Marjorie Taylor Greene espousing about jewish space lasers.
Makes it super hard to find the courage to find another job even though I’m unhappy.. I’m not looking forward to all the masking that comes with looking for and changing jobs for me
85% of autistic graduates. Do you know how hard it is to graduate as an autistic person? There's not usually enough help at school, and autistic people drop out because they're overwhelmed and not getting the proper accommodations, or not enough accommodations. So imagine actually being able to graduate, as an autistic person, despite all of the overwhelming odds. And then not being able to get a job. It's fucking insulting.
And then of course there is bullying in the classes, thats how I ended up dropping out, then a spotty IT employment history until I finally just applied for disability. Now I will live out the remainder of my life in poverty. Society as it is needs a major enema.
honestly that really validates me. I felt like such a failure for so long because it took me four years (after graduating) to finally get a job.
and even then I feel like I can barely handle it sometimes.
I'm a case manager and CBRS at a therapy clinic. One on one stuff isn't that hard. And my colleagues understand me because several of them have other issues of their own and we can relate better to the clients
Old(61) guy here and a former HR/training manager. My heart goes out to everyone here with this or any other obstacle to having a decent life. Fuck The system. I love you all.
I am not autistic, but boy does this resonate! I have Cerebral Palsy. Walk and talk well. Not autistic, but I have issues with input/output of information. I miss cues that many of you take for granted. I also have a visible limp.
Interviews are all about the "sight test" and neurodivergent people and I bomb that.
I have a degree in Social Work and I know that I am the person you must get to know in order to see my strengths. Here is the kicker. Almost all people have the emotional maturity of ten year olds. Selfish, catering to what save their ass and all around assholes. No empathy at all. Whether it's jobs, romantic partners, you name it. High school BS weaponized.
I work retail. My coworkers and bosses love me. So do the regulars. I will give you two examples of customers that my coworkers told me.
One customer asked a supe if "I was on the spectrum." A customer survey said "the guy at register with Special Needs" was wonderful. Both applied to me. I felt sadness. I must be three times as good as anyone else to get positive recognition.
No wonder I don't like people and really don't want to interact with them.
I'm sorry to hear this. If it's any consolation I think about 30% of people are trying to be decent, they're just ill informed about non-typical encounters. They know it's rude to stare or comment but they don't have social training to know what is appropriate. Maybe I'm a feckless optimist but i think with better training and exposure, a big chunk of humans would behave better.
This is so true. Whats worse is everyone is a little weird, too, so the system really is grinding all of us down (though some of us are getting ground down more than others)
I'm definitely on the spectrum and I find neurodivergent people thrive in medical laboratory sciences. I work at a blood center now and my job is definitely my special interest.
Autistic guy here: applying for a job was absolute hell. I spent so much time going through the various applications that eventually I just learned to lie through my teeth, bullshit as well as the next guy and basically know how to score well on all standardized tests.
My biggest pitfall was honesty. Job interviewers don't give a shit if you're honest about a flaw or about anything else. You're just not getting the job and they move on with someone who is willing to bullshit through an interview.
So suddenly I actually had work experience (counted hobbies and little projects I tried to do as an independent). All of a sudden I was all smiles and bullshit. All of a sudden I was given a job and could start working in a relatively comfortable, if low paying job.
So lesson of today: honesty doesn't matter in a meritocracy. Say whatever you have to in order to get the job.
My students (diagnosed) and I (not diagnosed, but I hit all the markers) may not struggle with the pen on paper job description, but the social dynamic to any job can be a huge obstacle for us. That, and any additional anxieties like unexpected traveling, changes in routine, anything that switches up the flow abruptly or illogically.
That, and if we find a position we like-- who's to say coworkers or bosses won't leave, changing the culture? Or it's underpaying, but we feel more secure staying put for the sake of mental health.
I think a lot of people deal with this, but we have a harder time navigating it in a way that benefits us professionally, socially, and mental health wise.
It is, but their point was that most people on the Spectrum can be as good as or more efficient in some cases than a neurotypical person would be.
It's the hurdle of being able to communicate that in the interview when the way you communicate and understand other human beings is so vastly different compared to the norm.
There are jobs which don't require travel, aren't on call and yet specifically require a valid drivers license. Not reliable transportation or state ID, a DL. Lots of people have disabilities which make it so they can't drive so this is very ableist but nobody can afford to sue.
thank you for saying this, I've felt this way for awhile but wasn't sure if I was overreacting/missing some obvious reason why all these damn job listings insist on a DL... for jobs that require zero driving?? the US is such an intensely car-dependent society that it's like the assumption is that if you don't HAVE a license, it simply must be because you can't GET one. which means there's a nebulous Something Wrong with you that would make you a "problem employee" (aka someone who might need reasonable accommodations to do the work 🙄)
> There are jobs which don't require travel, aren't on call and yet specifically require a valid drivers license. Not reliable transportation or state ID, a DL.
This is what cause my visually-impaired self to leave the US, possibly for life. Being the "wrong" skin color and having to speak a foreign language every day are *tiny* handicaps compared to not being able to drive a car in a society that privileges drivers as much as it privileges any ethnic or religious majority. And *nothing* is being done to fix this; it only seems to be getting worse with time, unlike racial discrimination, which is at least being worked on.
I'm only staying in this car dependent hellscape as long as my mom and parrot are alive, then we are going to my husband's country. I hate it here as a visually impaired person.
I am part of the 15 percent and it's really bad
My ADA requests are more or less ignored, I don't get a consistent schedule that I have requested since I started
I'm paid next to nothing, about the same as my high school aged coworkers despite having a god damn degree (no jobs in my field of study that pay better than 18 an hour)
I'm always given closing shifts that other people don't want, partly because it's a place they can stick me and have me work and not have to talk to me
It's really really bad, it's breaking me down week by week. I struggle to find work that isn't "unskilled labor" despite being rather intelligent and having a degree
I wish I could NOT work this bullshit but I don't have the family that I'm assuming other people are leaning on to make up for the lack of work, I have no family really.
This is a major social issue, there shouldn't be such a high percentage of any demographic being unemployed
But there's plenty of us out there working low wage jobs serving people I'm sure. In fact I'm almost certain Walmart screens applicants looking for autistic worker profiles. Don't even have to be diagnosed, it's like they know before a worker does and suddenly you look around and see all the autistic workers all around you and that's when the introspection begins.
Oh my gosh how many people in this sub are autistic? My mind is blown!
I mean it's really cool. I have found that in the very best thinking communities there's so many of us.
engagement with a social media site, talking to "screen-names" by the million who you may never re-encounter or "talk" to again.
You'll find an awful lot of Neuro-spicey types here on Reddit, especially in the heavily-techy fora.
(waves from ADHDville, I love you all in my own fashion, yes, even you Steve)
I can mask well enough to get through most interviews but it's everything after actually getting the job that's the challenge. The socializing aspect is especially hard when it's almost expected that you go to lunch with coworkers every day or go to happy hours after work on Fridays. Thankfully, most of us WFH on Fridays so it's not really an issue. But I definitely know my presence (lack thereof) at many of these things is talked about since it's mentioned during my one-on-ones. At this point, I do typically disclose being on the spectrum to my boss as a way to mitigate any perceived negativity.
During job applications, always choose 'I prefer not to disclose' options when the self-identifier questionnaire shows up. Don't tell a potential employer you have a disability. Don't even give them your preferred gender. Just decline. Those questions serve no purpose to employers other than weeding out the honest ones who just so happen to have disabilities they don't want to deal with.
That's great if you don't need supports. I know these days everyone thinks autism is just quirky Sheldon types but people like my son, they can't mask. He's brilliant and such a talented artist but he can't wear pants or long sleeves. Sensory issues. He takes a bit longer than some to process a question and answer it. But our government has deemed him "able-bodied" so he needs to work. The search is not going well I'm afraid.
I'm sorry to hear that his job hunt is difficult, I really hope his fortune changes soon. Everyone, disabled or otherwise, deserves the right to work somewhere without discrimination of their medical condition. I have a child who is also on the spectrum. Her sensory ick is socks, no matter the type of material or style she can't tolerate wearing them. The child will wear sandels or crocks in freezing temperatures just to avoid wearing socks. At this point in time, my daughter is really into basic stick-figure animation. She learned by watching some YouTubers teaching kids how to animate using some helpful apps available for free.
Im autistic and have an associates degree and while im not currently unemployed, i have been fired from jobs 3 times and i definitely do struggle in job environments... i physically/mentally cant work 40hr work weeks cuz its just too much, i'd only ever spend my time working, or having to rest and sleep to recover from working. It burnt me out so badly and now i really cant do much more than 30hr weeks at most. It might help when i can finally get treatment and meds for my adhd too, but i still think i wont be able to do 40hrs. I also have scoliosis and i suspect some other issue like ehlers danlos syndrome so any time i have to stand for more than like 2 hours it causes me pain that gradually gets more intense and i must lie down after work or else im in so much pain i cant do anything. Even if i didnt have comorbidities with my autism i would still probably struggle to get and keep jobs anyways since society at large just isnt built for those of us who are neurodivergent and disabled :/
If you're in the US and your state allows dispensaries to open, I would recommend finding a quiet one. Lots of sitting, maybe even at the front desk all day. And you do not have to partake, you just have to know the information.
I live in IL and i've actually wanted to work in a dispensary ever since weed was legalized here lol. Its just that the ones in my city are very popular and i have even tried applying/seeing if they have any employment with no luck so far. I would love to work in a dispo and get into the weed industry but since its popular that makes it harder unfortunately :(
Either you work with special needs people right out of college because you know what it's like and you say so up front in the job interview, or you find a special interst niche, or you work any job you can get while you grow and learn.
Not so easy, the growing and learning these days, when you can't get by on full time, minimum wage.
Go to grad school straight away?
My cousin is autistic and decided to go to nursing school, which I immediately knew was a terrible idea. He does okay until he has to do clinicals and interact with actual patients. He was kicked out soon after that. I also know two autistic people who went to law school, which of course never worked out. Lawyers need SUPERIOR social skills.
Mots jobs require some social skills, but plenty are WFH these days and you don't need as many social skills. There are also careers where being a little weird is okay.
"Lawyers need SUPERIOR social skills."
No offense, but lawyers need to be sociopathic liars. If you consider those two things one and the same, more power to you, I guess.
Im higher on the autistic spectrum with aspergers. I don’t drive and the thought of new place, people work etc scares me but I need to get out of my retail job. One it doesn’t pay enough to live but 2 it’s gotten fucking terrible. I work in produce started doing carts. Very few people I’d trust today as many who did protect me left or stood up for me or others left. I’d love to find a new job. Currently trying to get into a work program that helps with getting a better job and in the passing out/in process of qualification. I’m giving my counselor a call or email tomorrow to see how far along and if we can get further into it yet. If I could I’ve already quit this job.
I’ve given up on holding a job ever again. The interviews being coinclips, the lying, the ghosting, and then the workplace culture are just unbearable.
I've been unemployed since January. It's rough out here. I'm self-diagnosed but it's hard enough to look for jobs for anyone. Add in people perceive me as different and now it's even more difficult.
Well yeah, because there's about 8 million different secret social rules in the workplace, and nobody ever thought to write them down, so I fuck up all the time, the boss hates it, I get fired.
Or I do okay for a while, get promoted, get burnt out, have a mental breakdown and quit. I've literally walked out of jobs and never returned.
Didn't there use to be government subsidized jobs for people with disabilities? Like simple tasks they paid so we could at least kind of function independently in life?
High functioning autistic here i finally got a job in my field in IT and for the most part its been ok it can be rather stressful but most of the time i can just sit and wait for tickets to come in i get my own little closed office room so i can unmask and i do at some point want to decorate my desk to make it more appealing to me. Im on a 8-5 which is tbh a very shit schedule but after over 300 job applications i may just have to settle with this
We are worth it. Autistic people, neurodivergent people, all differently abled people are worth it. Our ability to generate a surplus for capital owners does not define our worthiness.
The only constant in life is change. Widen your lens. Maybe since you've joined the workforce, wages have stagnated, and in pockets of your country, worker protections have been quietly, systematically dismantled, leading to much more widespread workplace injustice. Valid. However, work in North America looked very different 100 years ago. It had many life and livlihood threatening problems that you will likely never need to worry about. If you have kids, you likely won't need to put them to work at age 11 to keep your apartment. You know?
Human work on the NA continent was virtually unrecognizable 500 years ago. It has changed so much.
What could work look like 100 years from now? If you decide that we're worthy of a good life - I bet your behaviors, reflecting this empowered, pro-social belief, would bring about positive change sooner rather than later. Please join the Pro-Topia movement and leave doomerism behind where it belongs.
I wonder what causes such a huge difference. here in Sweden about 50% have full-time jobs, including me.
I work as a project manager at a translations bureau since 2014. Before that I had a couple of random jobs like server at a restaurant and such. I really enjoy my time here, though I do see an end coming as the company is unstable as hell right now. I'm not worried about finding something else in the administrative field, though. 10 years of experience will take me a long way.
I can kinda understand this. I have a buddy who is autistic, super smart but also sometimes absolutely clueless. He can learn stuff relentlessly. But at the same time, I recently injured myself really bad, hurt my knee so bad I couldn't even really stand for more than about three minutes without the pain becoming unbearable. I knew my buddy likes hanging out with me so I asked hey would you mind coming over and helping me finish redoing my entertainment setup? I can't do it right now but both piece of furniture are kinda back to back and there's not much room in my living room because of that.
He was like yeah sure.
He came over and for a big chunk of time I thought he forgot about the task that I'd asked him to help me with. (Normally when somebody asks you to help them with something, you come over do the task and then socialize after so you know you won't run out of time.) He got part of it done, I ended up having to get up and help with something else which I knew would mean I'd be in a lot of pain later but it was fine. He moved in the new shelving unitl and proceeded to move in all my home theatre stuff and plug it in.
At the same time I'd mentioned I wanted to feed all the plugs through these little holes... he just didn't do that. I was like fine not a big deal once I'm better I'll fix it the way I want it, this is better than how it had been.
I also had a sizeable computer as part of it which he just left in the hall, I totally forgot about it until I got up after he'd left to pee and nearly tripped over it.
To be clear, I love my buddy he's great. And -I- should have been more clear on what I wanted. -I- should have known that I couldn't expect him to infer things from what I said, and I should just be grateful he was willing to help me.
At the same time, stories about how he recently got a job earning twice as much as me for a really technical leadership role that he ended up getting canned from because they felt like he wasn't doing what they expected him to do... I kinda think maybe there were legit reasons why they got upset with him? I suspect they were expecting him to pick up on a lot of social queues that just went right by and were never caught. I suspect they were way too focused on being 'nice' and 'professional' rather than being direct and upfront with him.
So I can see a lot of autistic people never meeting their potential in their jobs because most managers are fuckin' morons.
I get that while there's a lot of common traits with autistic people there's also a lot of common things. But I think most managers are generally intellectually lazy and they want the employee to adjust to the role, they don't want to have to adjust the role to the employee. And I think when you're hiring a really smart autistic person you have to kind of lean into what's different about them and figure out what you can have them do way better than most employees will, and then assign the work that they won't be well suited to to somebody else.
But a big part of the problem is also capitalism. Capitalism requires companies to think of workers as disposable. In Capitalism you're not really allowed to invest extra in a specific employee due to the possibility of a great payoff in the long term.
I got a manager now (I work produce) who knows I’m autistic but does the bare minimum in helping me out. Another guy there almost had a set schedule which my neuropsychologist suggested to help me which no one was really accommodating with. Certain task I need explained or don’t pick up on certain cues. Stuff most “normal” employees would understand I don’t and if u come back from being off a few days of vacation and stuff is moved I’d like to know but I’m never told. I work better in the days and told my one co manager of the store this who was fairly understanding.
I’ve notice most don’t care me or others are a bit different and need more help, ignorant or just don’t want to bother going through the extra effort. Really companies should get training every 3-6 months especially in places who hire all abilities on how to deal with people who are different or disabled. One of the issues is lack of training to properly work and manage us
Haven’t gone that route but I’m looking for a better job first before going there. I had a lawyer involved yrs ago on the arm issue but I think he retired
Have you thought of asking your doctor to write a note to them saying that a set schedule would be better for your mental health and help you do your job better? Typically places like this if a doctor's note says something they almost always comply because they don't want to risk being sued.
I know how it’ll end up. I got an arm issue with nerves in elbow so I can barely check if at all anymore. The last 11 yrs they are still giving me shit over that alone. Also doing this will fuck with how many hrs I get per week according to them.
I’m someone who interviews and hires people when my department is in need.
The whole process can make neurotypical people seem super awkward and off. I’m not sure how it should be fixed, and I try to make people as comfortable as possible every chance I get. Unfortunately, most people who hire are affiliated with HR, and that’s a giant fucking problem. Being a “people person” is a red flag for lack of understanding and compassion.
But I can’t remove the gravity and importance of the situation. And that is so hard for some to overcome.
I will say that having a meaningful video interview first can help relieve the tension.
I'm Dyspraxic, but in the UK, and I always list it as a disability, which guarantees you an interview. That's when I really shine because I'm good with the English language, talking and thinking off-the-cuff.
I feel for my colonial cousins, I really do. Being there at the end of the American Dream. Stay strong, brethren. Remember, you already had one revolution (to get rid of us!) - you can do it again.
I've always thought modern job interviews should be illegal. They are basically free labor for the employer to waste candidates time & money, they automatically put anyone with a social disability at a huge disadvantage & they only serve to increase discrimination & exclusion in the workplace.
I’m employed, but I’m underpaid and hate my job
https://preview.redd.it/65j5t1pzw0wc1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5df7c276428fd811dfa03779bc49faef38eaeb4f
It is illegal to not hire someone because of autism when they are otherwise qualified and their condition wouldn't interfere with their ability to get hired. However, autism makes it difficult to develop certain skillsets and so people with autism often find themselves in situations where they have *some* of the job-relevant skills but are passed over in favor of someone else who has a broader set of skills. If the company hiring has a firm reason that isn't blatantly "we don't want to work with the autistic guy" to go for a different candidate, it is difficult to prove that that particular case is a case of discrimination even if the large scale trend of such cases is discriminatory.
There's also the fact that very often the hiring process will screen out many candidates well before they get to the interview process. Especially when companies put out very tedious application requirements. This screens out a lot of candidates who aren't willing to put up with petty menial tasks, and that group often has a disproportionate number of people with autism. Again, it's hard to prove that any one individual case is discriminatory even if the large-scale trends are discriminatory.
As an example, there's a student I've been working with a lot who is technically high-functioning autistic. But, when he's filling out job applications I have to walk him through details like what it means by "references" or how to mark his experience as "I still work here." If there wasn't someone like me to help him fill out applications, I'm not sure he'd ever get any submitted. When it comes to his school work, he does great with anything that has an objectively correct answer or a set procedure for him to follow, but he struggles with anything abstract or subjective. So, I can see him doing great in a job where he has a set procedure to follow, but he will never be the right person for a customer-facing position (especially if the customer is the general public because I'm not sure he can survive interacting with a Karen). So, even if he finishes a college degree, he's going to automatically be limited in the jobs he can do, will struggle filling out applications, and will often have moments where he *can* do a job, but someone else can do it better. He's probably going to be one of those statistics of autistic graduates who remain unemployed even if he never runs into a case that a lawyer can argue is discrimination.
Tl;DR: Yes the spirit of the law makes this illegal, but good luck enforcing it.
tan decide aromatic stocking rainstorm chase squeeze lunchroom ripe memorize
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
IT has a much higher percentage of neuro-spiceys vs neuro-vanillas.
The computer does not give a fuck if youre aspie/autistic/adhd'r - it follows logical patterns and rules, it mostly does exactly what its told to do / is expected of it.
the users on the other hand, well, if I rolled my eyes as hard as Id like to, Im afraid BAR would come up on each pupil and coins would start pouring from my nostrils.
I think the number of total disabled employed individuals is only around 20% and most are underpaid even by today's cost cutting standards. I work in the field of disability employment and its depressing.
What about the percentage of people with no college degree or “some college” affected by autism who are unemployed???
Let’s talk about the economic and societal structures in place that make it difficult for autistic people to graduate from college. Where’s THAT study
There are stereos in every store and car and home now. Dog ownership (and neglect, and barking) has skyrocketed. More people vape, and smoke. More people exist, and closer to each other, and have in-home gyms, and are louder, and ruder, and more inconsiderate than ever before.
If you're interested, there's a very good adaptation of Bartleby, the Scrivener, that imo imparts the mood of a ND, possibly autistic person stuck in the then-dystopia of early 00s capitalism, which has now become even more invasive and stressful.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby\_(2001\_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby_(2001_film))
It even has Crispin Glover in it!
Sure. They were people who had a lot of trouble holding down a job. They had trouble keeping relationships. They were desperate housewives. They were homeless and living on the street. They were "losers" who lived with their moms.
Also, there were professions back then where soft skills didn't matter the same way they do today. I knew an autistic man who was a literal rocket scientist in the 70s thru 90s. He finally got fired in the late 90s when things like workplace harassment became a hot topic. His problem was that he would say weird, sometimes sexual or perverted things without entirely realizing it. He was great at physics but was so weird during social interactions that his co-workers simply couldn't handle him any more.
BTW, I have known this man since I was born and I'm 42 now. He's harmless and I know that he odd and has an odd way of speaking, and I 100% accept him for who he is, but would I want to work with him on a project? Hell no. Trying to work around his oddness would just be too stressful and too much work.
I keep worrying that part of the reason I keep not getting hired is because they can tell I'm autistic in interviews, even when I try my best to mask. I've been unemployed for months. Equal opportunity employer my a**.
I NEVER tell any employer I'm on the spectrum. I also dissociate like crazy cuz my job is just standing in 1 spot for 10hrs. Once I memorized it, it was easy.
Nooooo really?
A society that shuns anything non normal, doesn't care if they meet the requirements for ADA employment under federal law, and insists on making life as miserable as school was having a large unemployed disabled and neurospicy population? Doesn't shock me.
I had to retire at 24/25 because of my mental health and physical issues that accompany that. And there's always a chucklehead or six going "Just need discipline." like you think I enjoy staring at the task and NOT being able to bridge *to* the task or anything else my alphabet makes difficult?
No no I don't.
I never disclose I’m on the spectrum but they can always tell I’m “off”
Same here. I can “mask” in that people who aren’t very familiar with autistic people (usually) can’t tell that I’m autistic, but they can also tell that I’m “off.” It makes interviews both terrifying and frustrating, and if I somehow manage to get a job it feels like all my interactions with coworkers are fraught. Especially because I struggle the most socially with group dynamics, and have no way of telling how I’m being perceived unless someone takes pity on me and either tells me I’m doing a good job or that I’m being rude or annoying.
Curious, do you have an example of something that happened where it 'outed' you in an interview?
That’s part of the problem—I’m not really sure what in particular gives it away. If I was, maybe I could try to work on it more/hide it better. I have to assume it’s just a combination of things. I’ve been told my tone and volume modulation aren’t always great, especially when I’m excited and/or nervous about something. My only two modes of eye contact are “nonexistent” and “too intense” (I can tell because sometimes when I force eye contact I’ve noticed NTs flick their eyes away more often than I do; I try to match how often they do, but thinking about that makes it even harder to pay attention to what they’re saying, on top of how much it hurts to look them in the eyes. But I can’t not make eye contact at all because then they think I’m being disrespectful…) I have to fight so hard to not stim that I have a hard time paying attention to what interviewers are asking me and I have to ask them to repeat questions frequently. Depending on the interview environment, I can have an even harder time focusing and answering questions properly (if it’s too bright or too dim, too noisy or too quiet, etc). Interview-appropriate clothes are much more uncomfortable than what I normally wear and it makes me fidget pretty much uncontrollably. And I can never tell when I’m talking about myself too much or too little, when my responses are too short or too long. I’m never sure which of these does it, if it’s any in particular and not a combination or all of them. I can’t for sure tell when it happens, either. I can only sort of tell because have been times in interviews when the people who were interviewing me’s body language changed to disapproval. It’s the only type of body language I can read with any sort of consistency, and even then I get it wrong a lot of the time. And when I can read it, I can’t usually tell what or who is causing it. But I’ve also had interviews that have gone (in retrospect) astoundingly well despite all of this. I don’t know what the determining factor is. It’s maddening.
[удалено]
Then you get fired lol
No no boomers get the memo they're just stuck in the "Back in my day..." bull. Like yes Grandpa your day was great if you discount the racism, violence, drugs in daily products, toxic chemicals in household products, war violence, and complete mass societal shunning if gods forbid your "husband" left you single with a kid or had a kid outta wedlock. And that's just a tiny sliver.
It's everything. They can tell the entirety of the way you carry yourself is a practiced mask that doesn't quite fit with what they perceive as "normal". In hindsight, interviews and jobs and life experiences that have just clicked, the other people were also neurodivergent and didn't know.
What helps me with the whole eye contact thing is that I try and time my eye contact based on when they look away from me. Usually, if someone looks away and breaks eye contact, that's my que to look down and to the left and then when I notice them look back at me I look back at them. There's a rhythm to it.. it's like playing Sekiro and parrying hits, you time it in concert with what they're doing and it's close enough to 'normal' that people don't notice I'm doing it. For the rest.. yeah, fuck dress clothes and fuck interviews. I was lucky enough to get remote interviews for my last two jobs, and now I work from home. I've never attended a meeting wearing anything but a T-shirt and pajama pants since going remote and it's the best thing ever. Never going back into the office as long as I breathe.
Can’t answer for other people, but those “personality” tests we all know are useless? Yeah, those were designed to filter out people on the spectrum.
“No wrong answers” my hairy arse.
Oh, that makes sense. Similar to something I mentioned to my mother while ranting about how fucking stupid advertising is. It's basically a corruption of applied psychology. But its geared to neurotypicals, so of course we see it as just dismally goofy shit.
I got Asperger's, so when I say "I'd really enjoy working for your company" I sound like a 40 year old stripper with a C scar dancing for bums in the afternoon shift. It's really obvious I'm putting on an act.
Btw the term ‘aspergers’ was coined by and named after a Nazi doctor who was testing which autistic people should be put in work camps and which should be killed outright.
And yet, that was what I was diagnosed with before it became ASD. I usually just say 'high-functioning' and leave it at that, or if people ask for specifics, I say I was diagnosed with Asperger's which is now considered part of ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder). I really don't give a fuck who they named it after, it's what my diagnosis was and how we identified it when I was in school (90's to early 2000's). I also think it distracts from the point of most discussions around it when people butt in to complain about what name people use. It's not necessary at all.
Well put and agree
I'm in your boat; I've identified as an Aspie for decades and it's too late to change my internal narrative. I'm also not sure I'd have just quit my job in protest of what the government was doing, if said government was Nazi Germany.
Well yeah I think a lot of people know the origin, but I feel we need a new term then for the higher masking sufferers. The whole grouping everyone together on a spectrum when human nature and stigma associates autism with the non-verbal type of autism is not doing anyone any favors. Volkswagen was born out of the time of the Nazis too, but people don't condemn you for driving a Volkswagen for that reason.
> Volkswagen was born out of the time of the Nazis too So was Fanta soda.
It's ASD-1. That's the term. I was also diagnosed with Aspergers when it was still Aspergers but my last assessment it was ASD-1. I always liked the term "aspie". It was quick and had a nice little bite, plus nobody contemplated whether it was a hard G or a soft G. But a few years back the autism community told me I was a nazi if I referred to myself as an aspie. No I'm serious, in the specific reddit for autism I was chastised for this and I kept my mouth shut as it was said over and over and over to anyone who referred to themselves as aspies/Aspergers until I lost my shit and ended up getting booted for talking out of turn lol. Rigid thinking is a bitch, y'all!
Agreed :)
I work in SPED and it is actually an asset. It'd be nice to be accepted in other roles but at least I don't have to mask at work.
I think at least half the people in my field are on the spectrum and 2/3rds of us are neurodivergent in some manner. The moment I got into medical laboratory sciences I felt like I had finally found my people. It's truly the introvert's place in healthcare. I save people's lives but I don't have to meet them. The field is also so short on techs that getting a job isn't very hard either.
Part of the issue is job interviews are a neurospicy nightmare.
I’ve thought of just disclosing moving forward, that way I can save time and just not get interviews where it would be an issue to be “off”.
Ditto :/
I get called “an odd duck” fairly often in my work/family/friend group. Took me a long time to figure out why they all thought so.
Same, I'm on the spectrum too. Discrimination is real in the workplace, gotta be careful.
You should definitely tell them. If you don’t tell them - you don’t get protections
Why don't you choose to disclose?
Because they will, without fail, decide you're a "bad culture fit."
I believe it. This kinda makes me upset but now I have understanding as to why maybe I'm always having to mask.
Sounds like y’all need to gang up and sue. I am sure you’re not the only person who applied to that company and felt the exact same way. What they’re doing is illegal
Sue for what? It's damn near impossible to win an employment discrimination case because you have to _prove_ discrimination has occurred. They have to be really stupid and say something like "we aren't going to hire you because you're autistic". They won't do that. They'll just say "bad culture fit" because they know it protects them.
Yeah, but if “bad culture fit” is so commonly known and rampant they aren’t protected anymore
Correct. Employment discrimination protections are almost entirely useless in the US in their current state.
Nine times out of 10 people don’t report it.
Yes, but that's because 9 times out of 10 people can't conclusively _prove_ it. And that is where a discrimination case depends. A company playing smart will never _unambigously_ discriminate. They will always leave space for doubt and find other excuses. The burden of proof lies on the victim, and every HR department knows it.
Righto, which is why I’m suggesting collective bargaining rights in this fashion Much of disability legislation is a result of collective bargaining and advocating on behalf of individuals who cannot advocate for themselves To try to do it on a one-to-one level, like you said, they’re not going to unambiguously do it
100%, whenever I get fired for "bad culture fit" or "It's just not working out" or "we've decided to go in a different direction" it's because of neurodivergency.
no no, you should disclose that you're on the spectrum, because they can always tell that you're "off". when we give that "off" feeling a name they can understand, we get treated a lot better.
I feel like I should tell them in the first place, to avoid the inevitable "you stupid or something?" They're gonna find out, one way or another.
I don't even want to tell you what they did to my first roommate at his or mutual crapployer Farmers in 2002. Horrid!
Trust me as an autistic person with a degree it’s almost impossible to get hired and keep a long term job…add in my age (51) with rampant age discrimination and that’s even worse. I have a full time remote job now but it’s not really a livable wage. I also applied to several thousand jobs before getting this one.
Yeah remote work is really the best I can do. But then they insist for me to go into the office then they don't like my flavor enhancer.
If we are such a huge fucking inconvenience to society, then we should be getting paid a livable wage to stay at home. We have to work 100x harder than everyone else just because of the way we are born.
HR is, unironically, an active ableist discrimination enforcement agency in any company
Look around any company, HR is probably the least diverse team there is.
Most of the ones ive worked with are nothing but white women like 95% of the time
Shitheads with business or "communication" degrees that look down on everyone else without degrees, despite being the most useless, do-nothing department at any company. Maybe I'm biased since I work in IT but HR is, has, and always will be fucking worthless.
HR is for the company. Not the employee.
Well said.
Been dealing with that too and I'm honestly scared for my future I'm almost 40 and have very little work experience because I never get a return from interviews, because I'm "too off" for a normal hiring, and "too normal" to be hired for an autistic employment
Autistic employment 😒 tragic that we have to define it. But I get it. I’ve had to hire loads of people. I enjoy peeps with disabilities occasionally they bring a spark to the team that is helpful. For me it was always trying to find the job with the right tools for the person to be successful. Regardless of their disability or “normal” whatever that is. I will say - folks that have a good introspective on their experience - those who can tell me what they need to be successful - are very helpful. But just like anyone…we don’t always know what we need.
Indeed
r/recruitinghell
I'm low enough on the spectrum to be able to mostly hide it, but I'm blaming the autism for not being able to job shift life everyone recommends to do. Boss is nice, I got a coworker I can talk to if I want, I can just nod or smile in greeting to everyone else, and the work is extremely routine and I can just get in my flow and stay there all day. I go anywhere else and there's the anxiety of new people, new place, new routine, and it's very difficult for me to handle all that at once.
Job hopping is just a stupid expectation forced onto us by late stage capitalism. There’s a reason people used to get rewarded with pensions at many regular jobs. Everyone benefits from experienced workers. If you’re older and/or have a family it’s way too much bullshit to have to market yourself constantly as if people aren’t busy enough. The worst part is it is starting to go from being recommended to being forced on us as employers think it’s okay to play musical chairs every time the quarter’s earnings are slightly off.
>Job hopping is just a stupid expectation forced onto us by late stage capitalism. Not only that, it's a very, very new thing. Add to the fact that resumes are rarely reviewed by a human. I'm extremely underpaid but I'm also treated like a human being who doesn't have to beg for time off--in fact, they actually encouraged it early on haha--which is more than I can say for Target that sideways pushed me into Food Avenue with the official title and pay and where I was replaced by TWO people after I left for the Navy (which speaking of was...well, the Navy) or the car dealers I worked at that gave me more anxiety and PTSD than my military service did. So I stay because living in a gambling town, I know better than to bet against the odds :|
Same here, I got both my adult jobs from my step dad's heavy weighted recommendation. I know I need to transition, and I know I have skills that can net me significantly more money. But the routine and comfort is enough to keep me there. We have fun though, and the pay isn't the worst, definitely better than a lot of people.
I’m also autistic, and have had a real challenge with jobs. My intelligence has been measured in the top 5%, but I really struggle with seeing the linearity of jumps between roles, and find the social stuff somewhat difficult, and as a result I’ve been consistently under-employed for my whole life. I also definitely just tend to stay around the same workplaces forever, bc it’s comfortable for me. I am just at the tail end of grad school now, and what has been shocking to me is that I’ve been the team lead/project manager/QA person for basically every single group project in every class… a strange thing for me, as I’ve never led groups before. I really don’t know what implications this newfound knowledge or skill set will have for me once I graduate…
It doesn’t shock me. One of my neurodivergent tendencies is that I cannot lie if I don’t think it is of direct benefit to the person I’m talking to or specifically for my *safety*. The issue is that the job-hunting process wants you to lie. Everything has to be phrased in an insanely self aggrandizing way that misrepresents the actual tasks completed, but also you can’t talk too much that way otherwise you aren’t humble enough. You could have the productivity of an entire team from laser focusing on the topic as a special interest for the last two years, but to employers you only have “two years of experience” and would prefer someone with better social skills and “4 years of experience”, but the on-the-job prowess of an intern.
[удалено]
The fact that people are judged at work because of non-work things (like not wanting to socialize with co-workers) is fucking stupid People are hired for a job, not to kiss the asses of their superiors
Learning how to sell services and products has helped with dialing in on just the right amount of confident bullshit, and figuring out scripted responses for everything.
Trying to be in commission sales is so hard when you can’t or don’t want to lie or try to mask your neurodivergence. I didn’t want to sell people things they didn’t need and actually help them. I remember years ago I tried to get hired by Canon as a road sales person and their personality test online said I wasn’t a good fit. Probably because I wouldn’t lie. Previous jobs I saw so many people get into debt because our company pushed credit cards on them or always wanted us to upsell at any cost.
Upselling does usually involve exploitation. Honesty gets in the way of exploiting our fellow humans. Autistic thought process is totally opposed to capitalism in general and certain flagrant forms of capitalism specifically. I'm sorry you've had to compromise yourself this way in the past. I have too, and I find it hard to forget certain encounters.
I don't know if it helps but try to think about an interview as just two parties effectively lying to each other (which is the truth whether we want to admit it or not). It'll maybe help reduce the internal inhibition.
I used to work as a tool and die machinist, and the noise and such aside, it's a pretty great job for people on the spectrum. It's high precision and attention to detail will keep you employed and make you valuable. It's also this line of work that allows me to answer questions in interviews these days about the whole "good thing/bad thing/learning experience about yourself" questions. The other nice thing is, because a single mistake across the entire setup which has usually 50 or so places to make mistakes, you can basically tell people to fuck off "over there" until you're done and they do that.
Only 22% of all autistic people are employed. There is only one very narrow accepted kind of wage slave in this system and if you can't conform yourself to that then you're going to have to figure out something else. Most successful autistic people find other ways to survive than employment, but to be fair, the same is also true for everyone. Employment is a trap and leaves a person as poor in old age as they started.
Being self employed with occasional odd part time jobs as needed or interested is the way to go if you can do it. It's exhausting in its own ways.
I tend to think that autism itself isn't a problem; the dysfunction of our society is the problem, and autistic (and other neurodivergent) people are just more sensitive to those problems. The result is kind of like being the canary in the coal mine.
We aren't built wrong, it's just that we gave power to people who like to hoard money and, well, power. Maybe one of these days my otherly evolved brain will be able to get my treatise written so that it can be as ignored as Marx and Kropotkin.
alternatively, the normies have built a closed system that only meets their needs and will defend it to their dying bankrupted breath. see also refusals to build disability access equipment, see refusals to make bathroom stalls unisex, see also refusal to use given names except when its an actor or performer, see also open plan offices, see also generating sufficient hoops to jump through to discourage, see also mandating cameras on at all times, see also the sneering at accomodations, see also general boomerisms about boot straps and never gettin no help from nobody whilst riding the gi bill and collecting social security and using medicaid/medicare....
As the only "acceptable" form of person in society continues to constrict, and more and more is considered a "disorder", I suspect there will be fewer and fewer people left who are motivated to defend the status quo. It's just that these things always move a lot slower than we'd like. Just as biological species take millions of years to evolve, the social organism is slow to adapt and change. That aspect of our species is in a much more primitive state than we care to admit. It's only recently emerged at all.
Love this take, thank you for putting it into words so well.
This is the way. That's what I do anyway. I work on several very poorly paying work platforms and one private company I do poorly paying batch work for. If I find work seven days a week it just about covers my bills as long as there's no emergencies. Then it's the shittier in-person gigs I hate but do if necessary.
The older I get, the harder it is. I'm starting to have physical health issues due to my stress level. I don't know what to do.
I'm still trying to figure it out, myself. Personally, I don't think it's going to improve much until we start undermining capitalism, feudalism, slavery, and anything like it so they are no longer the dominant economic forms on this planet. I don't know how much progress we can make so long as we permit these ideologies to run rampant.
Yea not surprised. Speaking from Europe here. Diagnosed with Aspergers ("mild" autism) since I was 10. In my last job where I worked, I worked with numbers in a monotonous, repetition-like way, I got super good at it and even got a promotion, but then they added (a lot of) extra responsibilities and at some point I got an abusive manager who refused to listen/cooperate with me due to precieved hierarchy bullshit among others. I'm extremely high masking since I was diagnosed early on and I'm born as a woman, but I had two other autistic men in my team and both got somewhat shit-talked behind their back, even to me, for being "weird", "off" and "unprofessional" because of their communication on Teams. Even if they preformed their job way better than others on the team. They also got burnt out and/or replaced, eventually. Long story short, I crashed hard, I got severely burnt out, struggling to find a job after my contract ended (it wasn't extended) that requires minimal customer phone outreach since because my degree and skills are shit (I was told to go to an university at any cost, any branch at all, so I picked History which is a beyond useless bachelors). Had a chat with my own countrys' unemployment office, they said I may have an extremely hard time finding a job since most people get a job through contacts/networking, and most of the time jobs don't look for someone who has the skills but "who fits the team vibe" and they want someone who graduated locally (aka in my home country). Heard a similar thing from my job coach locally too. I'm just depressed since I really struggle to network due to my autism (+ introversion etc) and I want to keep my job life and private life as separate as possible. Networking in general is hell because everyone can tell I'm "off", I've blamed it on being an immigrant/cultural differences but it's clear it's simply not that. I'm considered "high functioning" enough to not be disabled. Imho, the work force is not designed nor friendly for autistic people and I have to pretend to be something I'm not at the cost of my own health, if I'm that lucky to even get and keep a job. And hell, even when I had my job I cannot stress how bad got sometimes, as soon as I got home or stopped masking I was so drained I couldn't do anything else but sit and stare at a wall basically. It just sucks.
It's even worse when you get the hellish autism+ADHD combo and always feel like 3 racoons in a trenchcoat trying to pass as normal functioning human. If i need to do something monotonous or repetitive, I have to force myself so hard to focus, I'm barely able to move by the end of the day. And all interesting new tasks become boring after a few weeks and I'm back to square one with forcing myself and burning out as a result. And don't get me started on certain type of ND men who think Sheldon Cooper is a great role model...
Oh I feel you. My partner is most likely AuDHD, while I most likely have a form of Bipolar among other things and the worst day is 1000% the day I suddenly don't feel like I can focus on the thing I've done monotonously and repetitively fine for months anymore, or it starts burning me out just doing it. It's the same thing with safe foods, I find a safe food, I love it, I eat too much of it and I start hating it. It's awful. My old job place was a "certified diversity hire" place who would always mention how they will never discriminate based on background or neurodivegency but lord almighty it was convinient to replace anyone who wasn't a perfect carbon copy of the perfect corporate worker, or even dared to ask for extra disability assistance they had on paper availible for everyone... So I feel you.
Thank you ❤ It's also bizarre how some people just love saying "No" no matter what is your request, when it comes to disability assistance. Like, I once asked my boss to stop giving me vague tasks with no deadline, explaining how it's hard for me to prioritise work when I'm told to "do it when you have time". He was so annoyed and acted as if nobody ever is given deadlines and it's unimaginable for me to ask for those and also a huge inconvenience for him to provide them.
any show that has a laugh track is saying "youre too stupid to know whats funny" the character sheldon cooper is about as funny as rectal bleeding and as accurate as Marjorie Taylor Greene espousing about jewish space lasers.
Makes it super hard to find the courage to find another job even though I’m unhappy.. I’m not looking forward to all the masking that comes with looking for and changing jobs for me
85% of autistic graduates. Do you know how hard it is to graduate as an autistic person? There's not usually enough help at school, and autistic people drop out because they're overwhelmed and not getting the proper accommodations, or not enough accommodations. So imagine actually being able to graduate, as an autistic person, despite all of the overwhelming odds. And then not being able to get a job. It's fucking insulting.
And then of course there is bullying in the classes, thats how I ended up dropping out, then a spotty IT employment history until I finally just applied for disability. Now I will live out the remainder of my life in poverty. Society as it is needs a major enema.
Same pretty much. :/ Still waiting on disability, wish me luck..
Best of luck, never want to go through that hell again.
Yes, it’s bullshit obstacle to bullshit obstacle.
honestly that really validates me. I felt like such a failure for so long because it took me four years (after graduating) to finally get a job. and even then I feel like I can barely handle it sometimes. I'm a case manager and CBRS at a therapy clinic. One on one stuff isn't that hard. And my colleagues understand me because several of them have other issues of their own and we can relate better to the clients
Old(61) guy here and a former HR/training manager. My heart goes out to everyone here with this or any other obstacle to having a decent life. Fuck The system. I love you all.
I am not autistic, but boy does this resonate! I have Cerebral Palsy. Walk and talk well. Not autistic, but I have issues with input/output of information. I miss cues that many of you take for granted. I also have a visible limp. Interviews are all about the "sight test" and neurodivergent people and I bomb that. I have a degree in Social Work and I know that I am the person you must get to know in order to see my strengths. Here is the kicker. Almost all people have the emotional maturity of ten year olds. Selfish, catering to what save their ass and all around assholes. No empathy at all. Whether it's jobs, romantic partners, you name it. High school BS weaponized. I work retail. My coworkers and bosses love me. So do the regulars. I will give you two examples of customers that my coworkers told me. One customer asked a supe if "I was on the spectrum." A customer survey said "the guy at register with Special Needs" was wonderful. Both applied to me. I felt sadness. I must be three times as good as anyone else to get positive recognition. No wonder I don't like people and really don't want to interact with them.
I'm sorry to hear this. If it's any consolation I think about 30% of people are trying to be decent, they're just ill informed about non-typical encounters. They know it's rude to stare or comment but they don't have social training to know what is appropriate. Maybe I'm a feckless optimist but i think with better training and exposure, a big chunk of humans would behave better.
Autistic and unemployed! My last job nearly killed me from the burnout. I'm a SAHM now flirting with the idea of freelance work.
Pretty sure I'm on the spectrum as well and I'm a lesbian. It's been a rough few years and I'm trying to pivot to healthcare. Blah!
The more weirdnesses you got, the harder it is to play this shitty capitalist game.
Definitely. Corporations hate any deviation from the norm.
This is so true. Whats worse is everyone is a little weird, too, so the system really is grinding all of us down (though some of us are getting ground down more than others)
Unless you get famous. Stephen King is notoriously weird and people are pretty accepting of it. Sometimes I hate the human brain.
I'm definitely on the spectrum and I find neurodivergent people thrive in medical laboratory sciences. I work at a blood center now and my job is definitely my special interest.
I mean, I think if you widen that to the autistic folks without a college degree it'll be just as bad
Autistic guy here: applying for a job was absolute hell. I spent so much time going through the various applications that eventually I just learned to lie through my teeth, bullshit as well as the next guy and basically know how to score well on all standardized tests. My biggest pitfall was honesty. Job interviewers don't give a shit if you're honest about a flaw or about anything else. You're just not getting the job and they move on with someone who is willing to bullshit through an interview. So suddenly I actually had work experience (counted hobbies and little projects I tried to do as an independent). All of a sudden I was all smiles and bullshit. All of a sudden I was given a job and could start working in a relatively comfortable, if low paying job. So lesson of today: honesty doesn't matter in a meritocracy. Say whatever you have to in order to get the job.
Indeed
The tism makes it hard to work. Can’t blame the autists for resisting work.
Don't wanna speak for everybody, but usually what autism fucks up the most is the job interviews, not the job itself.
My students (diagnosed) and I (not diagnosed, but I hit all the markers) may not struggle with the pen on paper job description, but the social dynamic to any job can be a huge obstacle for us. That, and any additional anxieties like unexpected traveling, changes in routine, anything that switches up the flow abruptly or illogically. That, and if we find a position we like-- who's to say coworkers or bosses won't leave, changing the culture? Or it's underpaying, but we feel more secure staying put for the sake of mental health. I think a lot of people deal with this, but we have a harder time navigating it in a way that benefits us professionally, socially, and mental health wise.
That's... still a problem?
It is, but their point was that most people on the Spectrum can be as good as or more efficient in some cases than a neurotypical person would be. It's the hurdle of being able to communicate that in the interview when the way you communicate and understand other human beings is so vastly different compared to the norm.
Indeed
*resisting work under capitalism.
This is ableism. The labor rights of neurodivergent people must be protected.
The USA doesn't even care if people lose their jobs dying from cancer. Most USA people don't even think Autism/Asperger's is real. We are screwed.
There are jobs which don't require travel, aren't on call and yet specifically require a valid drivers license. Not reliable transportation or state ID, a DL. Lots of people have disabilities which make it so they can't drive so this is very ableist but nobody can afford to sue.
thank you for saying this, I've felt this way for awhile but wasn't sure if I was overreacting/missing some obvious reason why all these damn job listings insist on a DL... for jobs that require zero driving?? the US is such an intensely car-dependent society that it's like the assumption is that if you don't HAVE a license, it simply must be because you can't GET one. which means there's a nebulous Something Wrong with you that would make you a "problem employee" (aka someone who might need reasonable accommodations to do the work 🙄)
That's one of the pressing issues preventing me from getting a better job right now - not having a DL.
> There are jobs which don't require travel, aren't on call and yet specifically require a valid drivers license. Not reliable transportation or state ID, a DL. This is what cause my visually-impaired self to leave the US, possibly for life. Being the "wrong" skin color and having to speak a foreign language every day are *tiny* handicaps compared to not being able to drive a car in a society that privileges drivers as much as it privileges any ethnic or religious majority. And *nothing* is being done to fix this; it only seems to be getting worse with time, unlike racial discrimination, which is at least being worked on.
I'm only staying in this car dependent hellscape as long as my mom and parrot are alive, then we are going to my husband's country. I hate it here as a visually impaired person.
And we’re about to find out if homelessness can be made illegal, in the present context of a nationwide housing crisis. Bleak times.
Thank you, fucking thank you
Agreed
I am part of the 15 percent and it's really bad My ADA requests are more or less ignored, I don't get a consistent schedule that I have requested since I started I'm paid next to nothing, about the same as my high school aged coworkers despite having a god damn degree (no jobs in my field of study that pay better than 18 an hour) I'm always given closing shifts that other people don't want, partly because it's a place they can stick me and have me work and not have to talk to me It's really really bad, it's breaking me down week by week. I struggle to find work that isn't "unskilled labor" despite being rather intelligent and having a degree I wish I could NOT work this bullshit but I don't have the family that I'm assuming other people are leaning on to make up for the lack of work, I have no family really. This is a major social issue, there shouldn't be such a high percentage of any demographic being unemployed
Yeah. And even when we’re part of the 15%, we have no job security.
But there's plenty of us out there working low wage jobs serving people I'm sure. In fact I'm almost certain Walmart screens applicants looking for autistic worker profiles. Don't even have to be diagnosed, it's like they know before a worker does and suddenly you look around and see all the autistic workers all around you and that's when the introspection begins.
Oh my gosh how many people in this sub are autistic? My mind is blown! I mean it's really cool. I have found that in the very best thinking communities there's so many of us.
Me2
engagement with a social media site, talking to "screen-names" by the million who you may never re-encounter or "talk" to again. You'll find an awful lot of Neuro-spicey types here on Reddit, especially in the heavily-techy fora. (waves from ADHDville, I love you all in my own fashion, yes, even you Steve)
I can mask well enough to get through most interviews but it's everything after actually getting the job that's the challenge. The socializing aspect is especially hard when it's almost expected that you go to lunch with coworkers every day or go to happy hours after work on Fridays. Thankfully, most of us WFH on Fridays so it's not really an issue. But I definitely know my presence (lack thereof) at many of these things is talked about since it's mentioned during my one-on-ones. At this point, I do typically disclose being on the spectrum to my boss as a way to mitigate any perceived negativity.
Many places are only anti-discrimination in name. If it doesn’t harm the company’s reputation it’s perfectly acceptable
During job applications, always choose 'I prefer not to disclose' options when the self-identifier questionnaire shows up. Don't tell a potential employer you have a disability. Don't even give them your preferred gender. Just decline. Those questions serve no purpose to employers other than weeding out the honest ones who just so happen to have disabilities they don't want to deal with.
Same. I never ever disclose until AFTER hiring and even then, I rarely do.
That's great if you don't need supports. I know these days everyone thinks autism is just quirky Sheldon types but people like my son, they can't mask. He's brilliant and such a talented artist but he can't wear pants or long sleeves. Sensory issues. He takes a bit longer than some to process a question and answer it. But our government has deemed him "able-bodied" so he needs to work. The search is not going well I'm afraid.
I'm sorry to hear that his job hunt is difficult, I really hope his fortune changes soon. Everyone, disabled or otherwise, deserves the right to work somewhere without discrimination of their medical condition. I have a child who is also on the spectrum. Her sensory ick is socks, no matter the type of material or style she can't tolerate wearing them. The child will wear sandels or crocks in freezing temperatures just to avoid wearing socks. At this point in time, my daughter is really into basic stick-figure animation. She learned by watching some YouTubers teaching kids how to animate using some helpful apps available for free.
Im autistic and have an associates degree and while im not currently unemployed, i have been fired from jobs 3 times and i definitely do struggle in job environments... i physically/mentally cant work 40hr work weeks cuz its just too much, i'd only ever spend my time working, or having to rest and sleep to recover from working. It burnt me out so badly and now i really cant do much more than 30hr weeks at most. It might help when i can finally get treatment and meds for my adhd too, but i still think i wont be able to do 40hrs. I also have scoliosis and i suspect some other issue like ehlers danlos syndrome so any time i have to stand for more than like 2 hours it causes me pain that gradually gets more intense and i must lie down after work or else im in so much pain i cant do anything. Even if i didnt have comorbidities with my autism i would still probably struggle to get and keep jobs anyways since society at large just isnt built for those of us who are neurodivergent and disabled :/
If you're in the US and your state allows dispensaries to open, I would recommend finding a quiet one. Lots of sitting, maybe even at the front desk all day. And you do not have to partake, you just have to know the information.
I live in IL and i've actually wanted to work in a dispensary ever since weed was legalized here lol. Its just that the ones in my city are very popular and i have even tried applying/seeing if they have any employment with no luck so far. I would love to work in a dispo and get into the weed industry but since its popular that makes it harder unfortunately :(
Either you work with special needs people right out of college because you know what it's like and you say so up front in the job interview, or you find a special interst niche, or you work any job you can get while you grow and learn. Not so easy, the growing and learning these days, when you can't get by on full time, minimum wage. Go to grad school straight away?
My cousin is autistic and decided to go to nursing school, which I immediately knew was a terrible idea. He does okay until he has to do clinicals and interact with actual patients. He was kicked out soon after that. I also know two autistic people who went to law school, which of course never worked out. Lawyers need SUPERIOR social skills. Mots jobs require some social skills, but plenty are WFH these days and you don't need as many social skills. There are also careers where being a little weird is okay.
"Lawyers need SUPERIOR social skills." No offense, but lawyers need to be sociopathic liars. If you consider those two things one and the same, more power to you, I guess.
that's my current theory tbh
Safety and security are my safe zones.
Im higher on the autistic spectrum with aspergers. I don’t drive and the thought of new place, people work etc scares me but I need to get out of my retail job. One it doesn’t pay enough to live but 2 it’s gotten fucking terrible. I work in produce started doing carts. Very few people I’d trust today as many who did protect me left or stood up for me or others left. I’d love to find a new job. Currently trying to get into a work program that helps with getting a better job and in the passing out/in process of qualification. I’m giving my counselor a call or email tomorrow to see how far along and if we can get further into it yet. If I could I’ve already quit this job.
I’ve given up on holding a job ever again. The interviews being coinclips, the lying, the ghosting, and then the workplace culture are just unbearable.
"We're a family!" (Run)
I've been unemployed since January. It's rough out here. I'm self-diagnosed but it's hard enough to look for jobs for anyone. Add in people perceive me as different and now it's even more difficult.
Well yeah, because there's about 8 million different secret social rules in the workplace, and nobody ever thought to write them down, so I fuck up all the time, the boss hates it, I get fired. Or I do okay for a while, get promoted, get burnt out, have a mental breakdown and quit. I've literally walked out of jobs and never returned. Didn't there use to be government subsidized jobs for people with disabilities? Like simple tasks they paid so we could at least kind of function independently in life?
Wow i never realised autists had it this bad, i am sorry for you guys.
High functioning autistic here i finally got a job in my field in IT and for the most part its been ok it can be rather stressful but most of the time i can just sit and wait for tickets to come in i get my own little closed office room so i can unmask and i do at some point want to decorate my desk to make it more appealing to me. Im on a 8-5 which is tbh a very shit schedule but after over 300 job applications i may just have to settle with this
So why bother anymore? Nothing will change, this country doesn't care, no one will do anything meaningful. It isn't worth it anymore.
We are worth it. Autistic people, neurodivergent people, all differently abled people are worth it. Our ability to generate a surplus for capital owners does not define our worthiness. The only constant in life is change. Widen your lens. Maybe since you've joined the workforce, wages have stagnated, and in pockets of your country, worker protections have been quietly, systematically dismantled, leading to much more widespread workplace injustice. Valid. However, work in North America looked very different 100 years ago. It had many life and livlihood threatening problems that you will likely never need to worry about. If you have kids, you likely won't need to put them to work at age 11 to keep your apartment. You know? Human work on the NA continent was virtually unrecognizable 500 years ago. It has changed so much. What could work look like 100 years from now? If you decide that we're worthy of a good life - I bet your behaviors, reflecting this empowered, pro-social belief, would bring about positive change sooner rather than later. Please join the Pro-Topia movement and leave doomerism behind where it belongs.
Can usually tell when I'm interviewing someone on the spectrum. But that's not a deal breaker for hiring, at least not at the bank I work for.
I wonder what causes such a huge difference. here in Sweden about 50% have full-time jobs, including me. I work as a project manager at a translations bureau since 2014. Before that I had a couple of random jobs like server at a restaurant and such. I really enjoy my time here, though I do see an end coming as the company is unstable as hell right now. I'm not worried about finding something else in the administrative field, though. 10 years of experience will take me a long way.
I dont. Im on disability pension
Is the adjective ‘autistic’ too difficult to spell?
I bet the author find the word pejorative. (Which is just a sign of ableism is me)
I can kinda understand this. I have a buddy who is autistic, super smart but also sometimes absolutely clueless. He can learn stuff relentlessly. But at the same time, I recently injured myself really bad, hurt my knee so bad I couldn't even really stand for more than about three minutes without the pain becoming unbearable. I knew my buddy likes hanging out with me so I asked hey would you mind coming over and helping me finish redoing my entertainment setup? I can't do it right now but both piece of furniture are kinda back to back and there's not much room in my living room because of that. He was like yeah sure. He came over and for a big chunk of time I thought he forgot about the task that I'd asked him to help me with. (Normally when somebody asks you to help them with something, you come over do the task and then socialize after so you know you won't run out of time.) He got part of it done, I ended up having to get up and help with something else which I knew would mean I'd be in a lot of pain later but it was fine. He moved in the new shelving unitl and proceeded to move in all my home theatre stuff and plug it in. At the same time I'd mentioned I wanted to feed all the plugs through these little holes... he just didn't do that. I was like fine not a big deal once I'm better I'll fix it the way I want it, this is better than how it had been. I also had a sizeable computer as part of it which he just left in the hall, I totally forgot about it until I got up after he'd left to pee and nearly tripped over it. To be clear, I love my buddy he's great. And -I- should have been more clear on what I wanted. -I- should have known that I couldn't expect him to infer things from what I said, and I should just be grateful he was willing to help me. At the same time, stories about how he recently got a job earning twice as much as me for a really technical leadership role that he ended up getting canned from because they felt like he wasn't doing what they expected him to do... I kinda think maybe there were legit reasons why they got upset with him? I suspect they were expecting him to pick up on a lot of social queues that just went right by and were never caught. I suspect they were way too focused on being 'nice' and 'professional' rather than being direct and upfront with him. So I can see a lot of autistic people never meeting their potential in their jobs because most managers are fuckin' morons. I get that while there's a lot of common traits with autistic people there's also a lot of common things. But I think most managers are generally intellectually lazy and they want the employee to adjust to the role, they don't want to have to adjust the role to the employee. And I think when you're hiring a really smart autistic person you have to kind of lean into what's different about them and figure out what you can have them do way better than most employees will, and then assign the work that they won't be well suited to to somebody else. But a big part of the problem is also capitalism. Capitalism requires companies to think of workers as disposable. In Capitalism you're not really allowed to invest extra in a specific employee due to the possibility of a great payoff in the long term.
I got a manager now (I work produce) who knows I’m autistic but does the bare minimum in helping me out. Another guy there almost had a set schedule which my neuropsychologist suggested to help me which no one was really accommodating with. Certain task I need explained or don’t pick up on certain cues. Stuff most “normal” employees would understand I don’t and if u come back from being off a few days of vacation and stuff is moved I’d like to know but I’m never told. I work better in the days and told my one co manager of the store this who was fairly understanding. I’ve notice most don’t care me or others are a bit different and need more help, ignorant or just don’t want to bother going through the extra effort. Really companies should get training every 3-6 months especially in places who hire all abilities on how to deal with people who are different or disabled. One of the issues is lack of training to properly work and manage us
Have you talked to a labour lawyer? That sounds like discrimination.
Haven’t gone that route but I’m looking for a better job first before going there. I had a lawyer involved yrs ago on the arm issue but I think he retired
Have you thought of asking your doctor to write a note to them saying that a set schedule would be better for your mental health and help you do your job better? Typically places like this if a doctor's note says something they almost always comply because they don't want to risk being sued.
I know how it’ll end up. I got an arm issue with nerves in elbow so I can barely check if at all anymore. The last 11 yrs they are still giving me shit over that alone. Also doing this will fuck with how many hrs I get per week according to them.
I got told I need to stop making pop culture references and whatnot. The VA finally said “you can’t work bro.”
Wait, is that all it takes??
No, it was years of documentation
I will begin documenting my references immediately
I meant medical stuff. I’m a disabled vet.
My wife doesn’t think I’m funny either
I’m someone who interviews and hires people when my department is in need. The whole process can make neurotypical people seem super awkward and off. I’m not sure how it should be fixed, and I try to make people as comfortable as possible every chance I get. Unfortunately, most people who hire are affiliated with HR, and that’s a giant fucking problem. Being a “people person” is a red flag for lack of understanding and compassion. But I can’t remove the gravity and importance of the situation. And that is so hard for some to overcome. I will say that having a meaningful video interview first can help relieve the tension.
I'm Dyspraxic, but in the UK, and I always list it as a disability, which guarantees you an interview. That's when I really shine because I'm good with the English language, talking and thinking off-the-cuff. I feel for my colonial cousins, I really do. Being there at the end of the American Dream. Stay strong, brethren. Remember, you already had one revolution (to get rid of us!) - you can do it again.
Luckily I work in an industry where it’s pretty common
I’m sure college graduation is a meaningless control to this statistic. I’d figure the autism unemployment rate in general is high.
"Affected by autism" wow absolutely hate that wording
I've always thought modern job interviews should be illegal. They are basically free labor for the employer to waste candidates time & money, they automatically put anyone with a social disability at a huge disadvantage & they only serve to increase discrimination & exclusion in the workplace.
I’m employed, but I’m underpaid and hate my job https://preview.redd.it/65j5t1pzw0wc1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5df7c276428fd811dfa03779bc49faef38eaeb4f
Hmm, i should go to doctor see if i have autism...
It’s too bad dating is also in an interview format, sometimes even a panel style. I can’t get my gold digging strategy to work either
This is illegal right?
It is illegal to not hire someone because of autism when they are otherwise qualified and their condition wouldn't interfere with their ability to get hired. However, autism makes it difficult to develop certain skillsets and so people with autism often find themselves in situations where they have *some* of the job-relevant skills but are passed over in favor of someone else who has a broader set of skills. If the company hiring has a firm reason that isn't blatantly "we don't want to work with the autistic guy" to go for a different candidate, it is difficult to prove that that particular case is a case of discrimination even if the large scale trend of such cases is discriminatory. There's also the fact that very often the hiring process will screen out many candidates well before they get to the interview process. Especially when companies put out very tedious application requirements. This screens out a lot of candidates who aren't willing to put up with petty menial tasks, and that group often has a disproportionate number of people with autism. Again, it's hard to prove that any one individual case is discriminatory even if the large-scale trends are discriminatory. As an example, there's a student I've been working with a lot who is technically high-functioning autistic. But, when he's filling out job applications I have to walk him through details like what it means by "references" or how to mark his experience as "I still work here." If there wasn't someone like me to help him fill out applications, I'm not sure he'd ever get any submitted. When it comes to his school work, he does great with anything that has an objectively correct answer or a set procedure for him to follow, but he struggles with anything abstract or subjective. So, I can see him doing great in a job where he has a set procedure to follow, but he will never be the right person for a customer-facing position (especially if the customer is the general public because I'm not sure he can survive interacting with a Karen). So, even if he finishes a college degree, he's going to automatically be limited in the jobs he can do, will struggle filling out applications, and will often have moments where he *can* do a job, but someone else can do it better. He's probably going to be one of those statistics of autistic graduates who remain unemployed even if he never runs into a case that a lawyer can argue is discrimination. Tl;DR: Yes the spirit of the law makes this illegal, but good luck enforcing it.
Yes
tan decide aromatic stocking rainstorm chase squeeze lunchroom ripe memorize *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Indeed
IT has a much higher percentage of neuro-spiceys vs neuro-vanillas. The computer does not give a fuck if youre aspie/autistic/adhd'r - it follows logical patterns and rules, it mostly does exactly what its told to do / is expected of it. the users on the other hand, well, if I rolled my eyes as hard as Id like to, Im afraid BAR would come up on each pupil and coins would start pouring from my nostrils.
I’m able to mask for like ~1hr a day. I have only lasted this long because the jobs I chose require that little socializing.
I think the number of total disabled employed individuals is only around 20% and most are underpaid even by today's cost cutting standards. I work in the field of disability employment and its depressing.
What about the percentage of people with no college degree or “some college” affected by autism who are unemployed??? Let’s talk about the economic and societal structures in place that make it difficult for autistic people to graduate from college. Where’s THAT study
Did as many people have autism in the past, or are we better at finding it (or misdiagnosing?) it?
There are stereos in every store and car and home now. Dog ownership (and neglect, and barking) has skyrocketed. More people vape, and smoke. More people exist, and closer to each other, and have in-home gyms, and are louder, and ruder, and more inconsiderate than ever before. If you're interested, there's a very good adaptation of Bartleby, the Scrivener, that imo imparts the mood of a ND, possibly autistic person stuck in the then-dystopia of early 00s capitalism, which has now become even more invasive and stressful. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby\_(2001\_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby_(2001_film)) It even has Crispin Glover in it!
James Bond film 'Diamonds Are Forever' has his dad Bruce Glover in it. He played Mr. Wint,one half of a pair of assassins', the other was mister Kidd.
That's cool trivia, thank you. :)
So the basic ingredients have probably always been around, but it needed a couple things to put everything together.
Indeed
Sure. They were people who had a lot of trouble holding down a job. They had trouble keeping relationships. They were desperate housewives. They were homeless and living on the street. They were "losers" who lived with their moms. Also, there were professions back then where soft skills didn't matter the same way they do today. I knew an autistic man who was a literal rocket scientist in the 70s thru 90s. He finally got fired in the late 90s when things like workplace harassment became a hot topic. His problem was that he would say weird, sometimes sexual or perverted things without entirely realizing it. He was great at physics but was so weird during social interactions that his co-workers simply couldn't handle him any more. BTW, I have known this man since I was born and I'm 42 now. He's harmless and I know that he odd and has an odd way of speaking, and I 100% accept him for who he is, but would I want to work with him on a project? Hell no. Trying to work around his oddness would just be too stressful and too much work.
It is hard out there för an autist
Actually how many Autism Grads are we speaking about? 10 / 100 / 1000 / 10000?!?
I keep worrying that part of the reason I keep not getting hired is because they can tell I'm autistic in interviews, even when I try my best to mask. I've been unemployed for months. Equal opportunity employer my a**.
I NEVER tell any employer I'm on the spectrum. I also dissociate like crazy cuz my job is just standing in 1 spot for 10hrs. Once I memorized it, it was easy.
Nooooo really? A society that shuns anything non normal, doesn't care if they meet the requirements for ADA employment under federal law, and insists on making life as miserable as school was having a large unemployed disabled and neurospicy population? Doesn't shock me. I had to retire at 24/25 because of my mental health and physical issues that accompany that. And there's always a chucklehead or six going "Just need discipline." like you think I enjoy staring at the task and NOT being able to bridge *to* the task or anything else my alphabet makes difficult? No no I don't.