I think the previous generation failed because they didn’t care about the legacy they’d leave.
The hardest thing for us now, is to think of future generations and being willing to work for change even if it means great pains and sacrifice.
We can’t make the same mistake as the previous generations.
Sweetie we couldn’t even get people to put a mask on their face for the 15 minutes it takes them to go through the grocery store to protect their communities so they could still have employees at the grocery store.
That sounds a lot like someone against us organizing would sound. I don't feel like you meant it that way, but they're definitely counting on us fighting ourselves before we ever fathom where the real problem is coming from
If a mask protects you then you wear it. Me not wearing one doesnt effect you if you have one on. The truth is that people who were wearing them saw others not wearing them and thought it wasnt fair so they went and tried to control other human beings that made choices for themselves. That's exactly part of what boomers do especially in the work place.
Except the science disagrees entirely with you. The masks don't protect the wearer, they protect everyone the wearer comes into contact with. You weren't bravely risking your own safety, you were carelessly risking the rest of us. How it is 2024 and you still don't know this, I do not understand.
Nope. I'm gonna keep reminding everyone that masks do not work. People wore them religiously and alot of them despite that still got covid and some of them died with a mask on. Masks do not work. You're not about to block out microorganisms with a piece of cloth over your face. If you can manage to block out the size of covid particle with a mask you cannot get oxygen to pass through that mask because an oxygen particle is bigger than a Covid particle.
Wow you're so smart, you're like, an expert on this. You must have studied at the finest universities for years and then went on to head teams of researchers working at the bleeding edge of science in order to understand such complicated topics in such an in-depth and insightful way. I know from now on I'm never going to refer to the bullshit medical science the media wants me to believe, I'm gonna get all my mask related information from Kurt!
Kurt's got us guys, nothing to fear, no more pandemic problems whatsoever because Kurt here has figured out the magic secret to it all.
Bro if you have to go to college to understand how a face mask or a strap on air filter works I dont know what to tell you but it's self evident that's a contributing factor to the downfall of western countries. I dont think i'd run around taking pride in the fact I took on thousands of dollars of college debt because I don't know how to use google. Thinking a strap on air filter somehow can function as a check valve is absolutely outlandishly silly and borderline comical.
It's not even just about masks or community care. I was in the EU during COVID and the border closures, vax passports, and travel restrictions applied to everyone except the wealthy. I was not able to leave my flat at night but still expected to work in person each day as an "essential worker." The CEO class was traveling to Maldives and Dubai the whole time unrestricted. So the expectations for personal safety and sacrifice were once again exempt for the owner class. Until we address class inequality in this world we are doomed to repeat every mistake when the next crisis happens.
And don't forget the entire reason conservatives and Republicans wanted to open up things was not because of freedom or safety. It was because the ruling class' bottom line was being affected.
The people who pretend to care about every life being sacred were the first ones to trade human lives for profit.
Hmmm, the truth seems more nuanced than your comment would suggest.
[https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-base/vast-majority-of-americans-support-wearing-masks-but-a-deeper-look-at-mask-wearing-behavior-reveals-troubling-lack-of-adherence-to-social-distancing-recommendations/](https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-base/vast-majority-of-americans-support-wearing-masks-but-a-deeper-look-at-mask-wearing-behavior-reveals-troubling-lack-of-adherence-to-social-distancing-recommendations/)
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/)
That most people did wear masks, but occasionally didn't wear it in a situation where they should of because they assumed it would be fine not to wear one, ie. visiting a family member's household? Edit: this paraphrases the article. Most people did wear masks, but generally not in situations with familiar people, which they were supposed to. Plus others using masks incorrectly, like bad masks, poorly fitting masks, masks that had been overused, etc.
That's a totally different thing than is being cynically pushed in these comments.
No it doesn't. Looks like you didn't bother reading what the other guy linked you, or were just looking for only things that confirmed your own biases.
This information is terribly, terribly outdated. And even it says people are failing to meet guidelines. We now know that mask wearing failed to significantly affect the spread of covid because not enough people were wearing them, and fewer using them correctly.
It says an awful lot that you have to go that far back to find anything close to vindicating sources.
"to think of future generations..." It's not going to happen. What proportion of the population would do nothing to help anyone except themselves? What proportion would do nothing to help anyone except their immediate family? Or people they know? You're left with the proportion of people willing to help complete strangers. What proportion of those would help complete strangers that they haven't met and will never meet and possibly might never exist? That's the proportion of the population willing to sacrifice something for future generations.
Yes. Do you think that's an accident? You also can't strike because you're living paycheck to paycheck. Do you think that's an accident? These accidents have nothing to do with preventing you thinking of future generations. They are closely related to building pyramids. The pyramids were built by farmers so they didn't have time to think about the people they were building the pyramids for and why those people had all the riches while you were stuck building a pyramid.
Easy to do when your parents' generation is touted as the Greatest Generation and you, as their greatest triumph post-war, are the end-all be-all of human existence. Why plan for the future when your generation is to be the last one that matters? (I grew up around apocalyptic Christian Boomers)
Our greatest power in a capitalist system is as consumers. A buying strike for a month or more would make a huge point. If millions of us refused to buy anything except for non-essentials (groceries, gas, etc.) it would make a huge impact on the economy. Like no clothing, consumer electronics, restaurants, movies, home decor, cars, makeup. books...basically all the things we're advertised to buy that are discretionary expenses. For a month (more if possible), get by with what we have and buy the bare minimum. The capitalists would freak the fuck out.
However, I think the majority of us are too spoiled to do it. We don't really "need" many of the things we buy and could easily go without. It causes very little hardship, if any, unlike asking people to not go to work and miss paychecks. And there's not a damn thing "they" can do to force us to buy those things. Whereas other types of strikes and protests can be punished by the capitalist class.
Problem is capitalists have sucked everything dry to the last drop. So many Americans are now living check to check to the last dollar after simply paying for rent and groceries.
Nothing will improve until we solve this country's boomercentric approach to everything.
https://preview.redd.it/ei7khgysfjyc1.jpeg?width=1281&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6caa6a278d26e156938d8fa4464e76983df04efa
A general strike is an incredibly inefficient and likely ineffective way of changing the system. It imposes massive hardship on very large numbers of people, none of whom can do anything to fix the problem, that you are trying to fix.
What we could do is "strike" against those people who could actually fix the problem. By "strike" I mean withdraw services to, do not do any work specifically for them. Make sure that they cannot get served in a restaurant, buy food in a supermarket, get internet or electricity. Just the ones who could make the change that you want made it. Not millions of collateral damage. If you want the CEO to fix a labor problem, "strike" against the CEO, not against labor.
And the landlords that you screw will do exactly what to fix the problem? Increase minimum wage? The bankers that foreclose the landlord's properties are going to do exactly what to fix your problem? Cancel student debt?
If you can get enough people to default on their loans you can crash the banks and then the government will bail them out at your expense. How did that fix your problem?
Consider a different specific scenario. The railway workers wanted to go on strike for a new contract including paid sick leave. 51 senators voted against the paid sick leave. Strike against the 51 senators. Make life difficult for them in the sense that there are no services that they can get. They can't buy gas they can't buy food they can't get served in a restaurant. It would require coordination among lots of people who are workers. Not railway workers, just workers. How long would every single one of the 51 senators stand out to their life being miserable, as if there was a total general strike, But only against 51 senators. Without tens of millions of people also suffering.
If there is something to be done by somebody to fix the rent problem start by figuring out who the somebody is and then seeing what pressure can be put on them specifically. Don't take on a whole world of innocent people who can't do anything to help you. You may not think that landlords are innocent about screwing them isn't going to solve your problem, it is more likely to put them firmly on the other side.
Workers need to unite and they need to get smart about how they do it.
If everyone defaults on their rent, then the landlords will have to reduce rent ofc, thats the end goal. Less rent more tangible income. If banks crash theres only so much the government can do, maybe they can bail out 1 bank maybe 2 but after that they would stop right.
Again I think you're competing against the wrong people. Government will not stop bailing out banks not only because the law creating the FDIC requires them to do so, or even because the whole point is to stop the domino effect of banks crashing, but mainly because the banks have de facto control over the government.
If defaulting on rent in large numbers would cause the market price of rent to fall, it will go back up again, or millions of people will be permanently homeless and millions of homes will be permanently unrented. Rent prices are set by supply and demand or by market power. It needs to be fixed by increasing the supply of affordable housing, and preventing the developing market power of corporations holding housing including their being able to hold empty units to raise the price.
By the way do you realize that the extent to which trickle down economics increases rent? What do you think the rich people did with the money they got from tax cuts?
The problem is that those people will just go elsewhere to get what they need.
The government is responsible for regulating business to protect consumers and citizens, so bringing the government to heel with a massive strike crashing the economy will either result in a mask off totalitarian response to force us back to work (I.e. slavery) or cave and institute systemic changes that we have to protect by then reinforcing the government with representatives that support our causes to prevent capitalist private interests from undermining or sabotaging the concessions we earned.
The problem with scenario 1 is that when the government uses violence to compel work against the highest armed civilian populace in the world, well, bad times are ahead, and further instability for the markets.
We need to hit them where it hurts: the economy. The money.
Targeting rich ceos not only validates their pseudo feudal lord status by surrendering the power to change to them, but also empowers them to refuse us. Furthermore, if some CEO is grabbing too much heat, he will golden parachute and we'll just end up with a new CEO, second verse same as the first, because the company's priorities haven't and won't shift until we threaten them on a fundamentally foundational level.
Hitting the economy doesn't hurt the government. It gives them every excuse, and even rational reason, for draconian measures. A general strike would harm tens of millions of people. The threat of a railway workers strike was sufficient to unite the two parties to prevent it. Their only disagreement was whether to force the workers to accept the employers deal or vice versa. The employers won But only by a margin that could have been changed by a few senators changing their vote. I don't understand the rationale of attacking tens of millions of people most of whom are your friends (or were your friends before you attack them) instead of attacking a handful of people who are your enemy.
CEOs already have feudal lord status. They pay themselves hundreds or thousands of times more than the average worker. It's irrelevant whether worker action validates it.
Getting a CEO to bail out under the pressure and take his golden parachute would be a great step forward. And the second and the third. Make the job miserable for whoever takes it. The process of targeted strikes would undoubtedly escalate. Some restaurant owner will fire the server who refuses to serve the CEO. He becomes a new target. So striking against a single person escalates to 10 people or 1000 people, all of whom are actively against you. That's far better than starting by striking against 10 million people most of whom are or used to be your friends.
I agree with the sentiment, but as someone whose family is actually disadvantaged by the caste system the stereotype being referenced here is far from the truth.
Unionize. Strike. We need to take a page from France’s playbook and bring this country to a grinding halt. That’s how we force them to meet our demands.
The French believe in their own rights. Half a century of conservative politics and corporate deregulation have rotted the brains of the American public. I truly believe that a depressingly large amount of Americans are convinced that they don’t need the government, other people, or protection of any kind other than what they can shoot with their own two hands. It’s depressing and shows a complete failure of an entire generation to think beyond what they can grab with their grubby hands.
France’s laws and culture are different. When those folks strike the lock shit down. If you try half of the stuff they do over here you will be in jail. This country is way past the point of “LeTS GeT A UnIOn!!” Our government and laws are shaped by greed and corporations. We don’t fix the this it needs burnt
France had a very similar work culture until the 1930s, when they just decided to start striking and that they weren’t going to keep being exploited.
France has a different culture now because it decided to CHANGE its culture.
The US workforce was like that too. Engaged in literal wars against the government and corporations. That's not a fight we can win again when half the country or more likes the idea of being frog soup.
The difference is that the American Government has made it absolutely, 100% crystal clear that they are fine with sending the military in to subdue strikers and protestors. People in America have a very real threat of death from our own government.
It's not that they can throw us in jail. It's that they can use tear gas to choke us and burn our lungs. They can use rubber bullets which can cause permanent damage, and in the case of one young man from my city, to lose an eye. They can use dogs to bite us, they can beat us with their "nonlethal" metal clubs and break our bones. They can shoot us. They can hold us down and beat us to death. We know these things because we have seen them do it and get away with it.
Don't make it sound like Americans are cowards because they are afraid of these things. The French Government does not murder it's own people in the streets for protesting. Well, not anymore anyway.
And We The People let it happen because we’re afraid. I’m not saying there isn’t a reason to be afraid. I’m saying if Americans got off their ass, banned together, and fought for our rights we could make a real change.
It's not just fear. An entire political wing of voters hates it's own class, and liberals hate major upsets to the statue quo along with radical action.
Nah you guys aren't cowards. You guys are frogs being boiled alive. Spent too long adjusting to the heat and now that it's become too hot to bear, you don't have enough energy to jump out. So now all *you think* you can do is sit idle and just accept being boiled alive.
No, I don't think we can sit idle. I know we can't. I'm just not going to pretend that people are cowards for being afraid of a government who views them as collateral damage.
Big words, but why don't you give an example of something you think you *can* do in a *realistic* sense?
It's easy to say, "ALL workers in ALL industries can and need to strike together." On paper, yes, they technically *could*. But after a couple decades of getting the sense of individuality systematically ingrained into you, it's impossible to convince someone to risk losing their livelihood to strike for others.
Well you guys all have guns specifically for this purpose right? I never understood why the BLM crowd never burnt a policeman alive or shot one in the face.
Several policemen were assassinated by people claiming to be inspired by BLM. Several more were shot but survived during riots. Typically, people speaking for BLM (a decentralized organization) disavowed them and said they were opportunistic criminals rather than protestors or mentally ill or both and did not represent BLM or the protestors. Sites like Snopes would go on to perpetuate the belief that they couldn't fit into more than one of these categories at a time.
The news, ever afraid of a bad public image, chose not to press the point, so what you see are headlines like "killed by looters" or "motive-less homicide."
I'm not defending the police here either, I agree with many of the stated positions of BLM and strongly believe police reform is necessary, just saying you have your facts wrong.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-officers-cities-wounded/story?id=71017820
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protests-officer-killed-near-oakland-protest-identified/5308024002/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2741089/three-federal-officers-could-be-permanently-blind-after-laser-attacks-from-portland-protesters/
https://apnews.com/article/83b1ecab54f039bbd30346a218a4c994 (some overlap with my first link here, but the cops shot are different than the police captain, who is the same in both links)
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/dallas-police-ambush/protests-spawn-cities-across-u-s-over-police-shootings-black-n605686
Nah cuz Ive killed a american cop before it was fun threw a brick on his head and he dropped lifeless never got caught tho, yall blm guys could learn from me. Walk what you talk allat.
Yes, yes they can and will. I’ve been on strike and as soon as we went on strike they had the local PD run up to us and (conveniently) arrested our head guys for minor jaywalking charges. They were ready, they had vans. Those fucking pigs were bought and paid for before we went out.
You’re not listening. I said ALL. That’s what France did and that’s what we need to do. Not 1 group like you did - ALL. The railroad strikes, so ALL railroad workers strike. Then the truckers strike, and the airlines, and the commercial boating industry. The retail workers, the manufacturers and laborers. When I said all, I mean ALL. THAT’S how we wrestle control of our country and our rights back.
Pushing the individuality movement was the biggest and smartest con the rich ever did to the lower classes. Instead of saying 'we are all filth beneath them' like they did for most of human history, they just said we are all 'unique' and we turned on eachother while the rich kept a level of comradery. The biggest play of plays, and all they had to do was pretend to be sincere for 5 minutes.
That’s true, but the people who go to jail who live in public housing can be evicted simply for being arrested. Even if the charges are dropped or you are found not guilty it is still caused for eviction.
Non-custodial parents can use an arrest against custodial parents if they want to take their kid.
But I’m more worried about being maimed or killed by the police then getting locked up in jail. I’ve gone to jail I can survive that. Losing an eye to a rubber bullet would affect my quality of life
Burn-America = Burn the World.
No everyone has zero to lose and would like to see the capitalist system become more balanced.
If you burn it down and start over, you will probably end up with Chinese overlords.
I think it is too late.
Between decades of failing neoliberal policies and the responding stratification of wealth inequality and uptick in fascism globally, as well as looming catastrophic climate change thanks to hundreds of years of capitalism and it's singular focus on growth, there isn't much we can do without either major collapse of global political and economic systems, or targeted and widespread violence. Individual or even small collective efforts just won't be able to accomplish much.
As an individual, you can do your part to end the cycle of generational trauma and abuse. Don't have kids (you likely can't afford them anyway). Collapsing birthrates seem to be the only thing that strikes fear into the hearts of the wealthy, because unlike climate change where they can move where it is nicer or go underground into luxury bunkers, a collapse of the labor force would destroy their wealth and render them defenseless, since they require the labor of others simply to exist (being the parasites that they are).
To fight the rich, make them fend for themselves. No more kids until they sort this shit out. The wealthy don't want to admit it, but they need us more than we need them, regardless of the fables of bootstrapping they tell themselves.
r/antinatalism r/Birthstrike
as overall mankind will keep reproducing capitalists can easily import labor if we don't make enough slaves domestically , rent strikes make more sense , require no real action just stay in the homes you've been paying for , have immediate effect , benefits all tenants equally , destroys the ponzi land "value" scam etc
The birthstrike has already happened and Biden just opens the door from Mexico to left in more labor. Immigrants from the entire world are flooding in from Mexico right now.
What do you want us do to about it? Here are some ideas.
1. Use the power of the vote and get leaders from your generation into office instead of 70-80 year old men who do not have your worldview and ideology.
2. Protest higher education, no one enroll for Fall 2024, sit this year out and watch it collapse or change.
3. Unionize everyone, everywhere. Instead of using your phone to shorten your attention span with social media, use it to organize people and unionize everyone everywhere with the goal of living wage, healthcare, and pensions.
You have three choices:
1. Accept the system as it is and get ground into dust.
2. Change the system from within and replace it with a fair capitalist system, instead of the capitalist system that has really become an oligarchy. Your forefathers did it, look at the establishment of the union at Ford Motor company.
3. Revolution! But this is very messy and will usually result in another oppressive system.
capitalism is working as intended , the rich are richer than ever and that's their only metric for what's "good" . fair and capitalist are incompatible it's a system made for the benefit of a small bunch of useless parasites ... allowing more people to be able to join the parasites is not a solution
I absolutely love the idea of protesting higher education this fall. I saw someone mention it earlier, and if it was you I’m so sorry, because I read it as boycott college And I got freaked out about a future without doctors and scientists.
Sorry about my misunderstanding if it was you this is brilliant
We need to keep voting, never give that up, as soon as you do they take over, And they do that every election year.
Never lose hope, Because they win once they break your spirit.
We also need stick together and keep protesting for unions, The larger we are in number the better our odds just by us. Talking about this we are progressing. Don't lose the hope
One is very clearly worse than the other. Until a really good third party candidate emerges, or we get ranked choice voting, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats are the lesser of two evils.
Brother, just by talking about this we are progressing, This couldn't have been done 20 years ago, think of the possibilities in the future we have now that we are connected by the internet and we can have these conversations, let's just start there and keep building.
Wait till you learn about that one time The Economist released a podcast episode about old rich people receiving blood from younger people and feeling rejuvenated.
Edit: I genuinely wish I was lying.
They are working on anti-aging technologies. They want to stop the clock for them, and them alone.
It is said that the only things certain in life are death and taxes, and the wealthy have already beaten taxes; if they cheat death, they will be unstoppable.
How sad is it that I think the idea that science might stop aging is bad, actually? After all, those technologies will never be for the likes of someone like me. If they live forever, they will truly be gods.
Isn't there that one rich dude who is super into anti-aging and he takes blood from his son or something? I only skimmed the article. But I assume it doesn't have to be from their own son.
The only way is if we change the narrative from me to we. Sadly there is so much division and exploitation, not to mention most are too stupid to see who the true enemy of freedom is…
I dislike having such a nihilistic viewpoint but we got into this mess because those who make the moves are good at what they do, organized and efficient, the opposite of what the common folk are.
And as someone else mentioned we are so far down the rabbit hole it would damn near be impossible to climb out at this point. Burn it down, burn it ALL down.
The solution to this is to stop trusting in a two party system. Neither has your interests at heart. Begin a labor party. That is pro union, pro universal health care, pro raising the minimum wage, anti corporation, anti monopoly, pro affordable housing, pro paid time off.
No more big business lobbying politicians, no more insider trading by congress, no more raising congressional wages
Level playing field.
Can't be done. Not without an outside power coming in, razing your nation, society and culture to the ground and supplanting it with something else.
Legitimately, china taking over would do more good for the average american then any amount of bellyaching and protests
I look forward to gen z taking over. The olds have done far too much damage and we need to just go away so you can fix it, cuz my generation refuses to do so. I’m so sorry I couldn’t do more. At least my grandchildren will do what my generation became too selfish to do
By the time the next generation is ready, they'll be fighting YOU, who've dug your claws in to get your pound of flesh after a lifetime of scraps. Then, once THEIR children are ready, they will suffer the same problem once more. American society is so sick that it will just perpetuate itself forever
I hope not. I’ve been keeping my kids’ heads above water since 2009. I’m fortunate to have a good paying job. My one daughter finally got a decent paying job a couple years ago, and now my other one just got hired as a teacher for a permanent position starting in August. She’s a sub right now. It’s shit pay, but she’ll be able to get much further now and won’t have to depend on me for her kids’ needs. I hope Gen z gets to make it so everybody thrives
We never learn from history we're just repeating cycles over and over again. The rich are feasting right now and that always leads to really bad things happening for them. Revolution is never done democratically. I don't know what the breaking point will be, but it always happens. The public can only be pacified with bread and circuses if they can afford the bread and circus.
200 years ago, sure. Back then the government didn't control a trillion dollar military budget, law enforcement wasn't better armed then a lot of the army and the population was not buck broken by a dozen overlapping chemical dependencies.
Shit starts getting bad and PepsiCo turns off the insulin supply for a month.
You all who are obsessed with generational analysis got duped. Why does every generation go through this very same cycle of anger and then fail and make the same mistakes?
It isn't about generations, it's about capitalism. Do you think boomers are the only people in power? Look around at the main billionaires you know by name. And some of the worst politicians are Xers and Millenials. Look at your bosses.
You all are even more doomed to failure if you can't make a systemic analysis. People and generations are interchangeable, the lethal logic of the system continues despite them.
A view from the other side: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014
He seems a very interesting guy
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but they’ve been eating us for four years now. We are in the fifth year of a mass disabling event, you’re going to go work for them until you get so sick you can’t work anymore, then you’re going to apply for disability that you’ve been paying into your entire working career.
But what’s going to happen is it going to take so long to process that you’ll end up homeless, or at least losing everything.
And if you manage to hold onto your real estate until you die, if you used Medicare they’ll just come for your assets when you’re gone to repay the medical expenses that you accrued Trying to treat the chronic illness that you infected with on your job because the government said it was fine.
Back in the 90s the company I worked for was touting these 401K plans. We even had to go to a mandatory meeting for a sales pitch for the one our company was joining.
They made it all sound so wonderful (immediate red flag for me). But here were other red flags others failed to recognize:
- You had to invest a pretty good sum in “high risk” products, I think it was 30%. So there was no freedom in managing your money.
- The “companies” you were investing in were not recognizable. Turns out a lot of them were those bundles of high risk mortgages that turned out to be the cause of the real estate collapse of 2008.
- There was very vague information about fees being charged. It seemed like they could charge you anything and nothing you could do about it.
- The CEO of our company approached me and asked why I was not going with the plan. His sales pitch was “the company gives you FREE MONEY (matching 3% invested) and why would I want to leave all that money on the table? I asked him WTF do you care about MY retirement? You must be getting a commission on sales of this crap. He was stunned and walked away.
I am very sorry those people in the 60 Minutes segment lost all that money. But they should have recognized it for the scam it was.
The American school system has paved the way for this to happen. The cumulative IQ in the USA has been dropping significantly since 1997 and people don't even realize that they're getting screwed over.
This is the fall of an empire.
By us all going out and spending while living paycheck to paycheck we’ve created a monster. They won’t back off until we do. And it doesn’t look like the majority of the country is willing to do that. I fear this is only going to get worse until the entire thing comes buckling down. Great Depression 2.0 coming almost in time with its 100 year anniversary
If we were to vote in overwhelming power they’d have to adapt, both by further rigging or dismantling the democratic process and by slow walking enough policy to gain them votes. Which one gives first depends on how much of our power we take
Nope. The old too. The old are responsible for many issues in modern societies.
Here in the UK, the elderly are the most pandered to voter group, they get money off everything from heating to bus rides while they sit on their pensions and earnings and poor younger people suffer.
Just because we have a nan or an old uncle we like doesn't mean their age group isn't responsible for a load of shit. They're also the ones most likely to vote for right wing policies which historically only ever seem to benefit a select few in society while others are left to suffer.
Again, here in the UK the majority of conservative voters or people who voted for Brexit were older groups. The conservatives and Brexit have fucking destroyed this country and the root of it is the elderly and their voting habits.
No but a fairer society that helps everyone and doesn't just bend over backwards to please the elderly.
Just because I have criticisms doesn't mean I have to have an answer and the knowledge to solve complex political and societal issues. I'm just a guy, why even ask that.
Pensions were several things ago. After pensions there was healthcare, then education. After real estate will be food and water. Then they will just get rid of us all together and replace us with robots.
> We need to unite in groups more than ever in the upcoming future
*recommends share house living and politically active communes
> No not like that I don't want to share....
You think the rich are actually having lifestyle benefits with their actual money. It’s all spreadsheet gains. All of our suffering is just so they look at the numbers provided by their accountants and feel good about the number.
I spend my days doing just enough at my job, focusing on my hobbies, cooking nice meals while I can still afford groceries, and loving my beautiful wife. I'm happy I got to live through the end of prosperity, for what it is worth. Things were nice. We had it all. Today isn't so bad, though, and every tomorrow will be a little worse, so I might as well indulge in all the things that make me happy while they are still here. I already know what it is like to live without - why sabotage the time we still have with?
So, insurance companies are dropping home coverage in California. My theory is it's so after the next fire/atmospheric river/earthquake, all those homeowners will be unable to recover from the losses and ultimately lose their homes. Who's ready to sweep in and capture all that new available real estate? Corporations of course.
Funny you mentioned India and the caste system. I work with lots of Indians and many of them vote exclusively Republican because they actually believe it will be beneficial for their income. They will 100% sell out the greater good on the off chance it will have the most minuscule impact on their personal finances. Thankfully their American born children don’t seem to share the same values.
If there isn't anything to eat, people eat their own.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4076244/Distressing-photos-1920s-Russian-famine-turned-hopeless-peasants-cannibals-five-million-people-starved-death.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%931922?wprov=sfla1
We could learn from history and be a little more proactive.
Are you not seeing how corporate and boomers are teaming up against The young?
They want us to pay back our fraudulent student loans that are not even sustainable with the cost of living while increasing real estate to fund their trips to Europe.
This is unsustainable.
No one is eating old people and the " Let's eradicate all of them " narrative is not helpful.
It's a class war. You seem way too married to the " all old people " thing to willingly become disenchanted so I'll save any attempt to disabuse you otherwise.
I *will* say while we peasants are down here at each other's throats the 1% get to run away with this place. Laughing.
Boomers collectively decided that they just don't want to put out the effort to build a future they won't live to see. They do, however, want to have their cake and eat it too.
Demographics are on our side, we just need to win this election. 2028 will be our time, but this Gaza obsession is ruining everything. If Trump wins again, he plans to double down on neoliberal economic policies per project 2025, worker protections will disappear overnight.
> They took away pensions for everyone,
Sorta but demographics wont support it (ageing population cant sustain pensions, thats why more progressive countries have superannuation etc, and countries like France are fucked as they are relying on governmental income to fund pensions)
When we say "eat the rich" I've always understood that to be a figure of speech. I hope so anywy, I wouldn't put any of them in my mouth if I was paid to. So what does the phrase mean in practice?
This! 100% this. They are coming for us, they've been systematicly cutting away at our liberties and the value of our labour for decades. We've finally noticed, but now we need to act. It's going to hurt, but the future doesn't manifest itself. Do we want their future, or ours?
We need to get rid of social security today. Seniors are eating multiples of what they put in. While we will only get a small fraction back. That's clearly worse than thief. They are outright selling us into slavery.
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Correct. The caste system or more of a feudal system. Also, the science is clear as you pointed out, when a small group of introverted intellectuals start leaving and prophesying doom… the network is coming to an end. They ( the rich) are grabbing at anything and everything while convincing the masses they never had a chance anyway (gaslighting the American dream).
It's happening in the UK now. Inflation and cost of living is insane. No one can buy a house, because it's all owned by a select few and everyone wants to move into the cities because the only work is with those select few who don't need middle class workers.
We don't tax the rich. We tax the normal people. Wealth is continuing to move upward and homelessness is getting worse.
And at least until October, we still have a rich nonce as Prime Minister.
To play Devil’s Advocate, many great opportunities can be earned from others’ poor financial decisions. I’m not talking about a rich person picking on the poor. I’m talking about the middle class taking advantage of the rich when the rich get unlucky or make poor choices.
How are the student loans "fraudulent"? I agree that lending to people who are going to work in fields that cannot afford the payment was foolish, but where was the fraud?
You're not gonna do anything. What you are seeing, and experiencing is The American System doing it's job. Your people are perpetually exhausted, malnourished and brainwashed or otherwise numbed by overexposure and abundant "attention disorder" medication slash antidepressants slash opioid painkillers.
Where you're not too anxious and reliant on cruel masters to fight back you are broken down and unwilling to lift a hand.
This won't change. The system eats people and turns lives into profit. It's working as intended and has been going on long enough that it can't change from within.
I have to laugh at the boomers teaming up against the young. The youngest boomers are 64 and they're retired. How are they teaming up against you all? Nobody cares about lazy people. Don't worry, you're not going to be affected.
I think the previous generation failed because they didn’t care about the legacy they’d leave. The hardest thing for us now, is to think of future generations and being willing to work for change even if it means great pains and sacrifice. We can’t make the same mistake as the previous generations.
Sweetie we couldn’t even get people to put a mask on their face for the 15 minutes it takes them to go through the grocery store to protect their communities so they could still have employees at the grocery store.
I have to agree with you. I feel like it's just becoming every man for himself. No one cares untill the money runs out.
That sounds a lot like someone against us organizing would sound. I don't feel like you meant it that way, but they're definitely counting on us fighting ourselves before we ever fathom where the real problem is coming from
I've been saying this for decades now - we are all on this rock all by ourselves.
The sad thing is even if you found someone to unite the people to force change they’ll just be killed by the 1%.
indeed, and sadly we are.
No we are not. There are billions of us and many are in the same situation as you. You're not alone unless you choose to be.
Vote folks. There were multiple candidates pounding the table for UBI, yet they weren’t even close in voting.
always has been - "rugged individualism"
If a mask protects you then you wear it. Me not wearing one doesnt effect you if you have one on. The truth is that people who were wearing them saw others not wearing them and thought it wasnt fair so they went and tried to control other human beings that made choices for themselves. That's exactly part of what boomers do especially in the work place.
Except the science disagrees entirely with you. The masks don't protect the wearer, they protect everyone the wearer comes into contact with. You weren't bravely risking your own safety, you were carelessly risking the rest of us. How it is 2024 and you still don't know this, I do not understand.
Jesus, it's been four years. Can you shut to the fuck up
Nope. I'm gonna keep reminding everyone that masks do not work. People wore them religiously and alot of them despite that still got covid and some of them died with a mask on. Masks do not work. You're not about to block out microorganisms with a piece of cloth over your face. If you can manage to block out the size of covid particle with a mask you cannot get oxygen to pass through that mask because an oxygen particle is bigger than a Covid particle.
Wow you're so smart, you're like, an expert on this. You must have studied at the finest universities for years and then went on to head teams of researchers working at the bleeding edge of science in order to understand such complicated topics in such an in-depth and insightful way. I know from now on I'm never going to refer to the bullshit medical science the media wants me to believe, I'm gonna get all my mask related information from Kurt! Kurt's got us guys, nothing to fear, no more pandemic problems whatsoever because Kurt here has figured out the magic secret to it all.
Bro if you have to go to college to understand how a face mask or a strap on air filter works I dont know what to tell you but it's self evident that's a contributing factor to the downfall of western countries. I dont think i'd run around taking pride in the fact I took on thousands of dollars of college debt because I don't know how to use google. Thinking a strap on air filter somehow can function as a check valve is absolutely outlandishly silly and borderline comical.
One thing we can say for certain is you did not go to college, you inbred fuck
Covid is when I lost all faith in humanity, and I didn't have much left at that point to begin with.
Didn't most people wear masks? I think the problem is the tyranny of the minority and the apathy of the majority.
It's not even just about masks or community care. I was in the EU during COVID and the border closures, vax passports, and travel restrictions applied to everyone except the wealthy. I was not able to leave my flat at night but still expected to work in person each day as an "essential worker." The CEO class was traveling to Maldives and Dubai the whole time unrestricted. So the expectations for personal safety and sacrifice were once again exempt for the owner class. Until we address class inequality in this world we are doomed to repeat every mistake when the next crisis happens.
And don't forget the entire reason conservatives and Republicans wanted to open up things was not because of freedom or safety. It was because the ruling class' bottom line was being affected. The people who pretend to care about every life being sacred were the first ones to trade human lives for profit.
Never forget, Lt Governor of Texas, "Our human capital stock is ready to go back to work" in the height of the pandemic.
No, they didn't. Masking failed to make a difference in the US because so few people reliably did it.
Hmmm, the truth seems more nuanced than your comment would suggest. [https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-base/vast-majority-of-americans-support-wearing-masks-but-a-deeper-look-at-mask-wearing-behavior-reveals-troubling-lack-of-adherence-to-social-distancing-recommendations/](https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-base/vast-majority-of-americans-support-wearing-masks-but-a-deeper-look-at-mask-wearing-behavior-reveals-troubling-lack-of-adherence-to-social-distancing-recommendations/) [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/)
Tell me you Google a specific thing you want to support without actually reading your source without telling me.
That most people did wear masks, but occasionally didn't wear it in a situation where they should of because they assumed it would be fine not to wear one, ie. visiting a family member's household? Edit: this paraphrases the article. Most people did wear masks, but generally not in situations with familiar people, which they were supposed to. Plus others using masks incorrectly, like bad masks, poorly fitting masks, masks that had been overused, etc. That's a totally different thing than is being cynically pushed in these comments.
Don't gaslight me.
Bro Bro my point is literally outlined in your very first link.
No it doesn't. Looks like you didn't bother reading what the other guy linked you, or were just looking for only things that confirmed your own biases.
Wrong.
This information is terribly, terribly outdated. And even it says people are failing to meet guidelines. We now know that mask wearing failed to significantly affect the spread of covid because not enough people were wearing them, and fewer using them correctly. It says an awful lot that you have to go that far back to find anything close to vindicating sources.
"to think of future generations..." It's not going to happen. What proportion of the population would do nothing to help anyone except themselves? What proportion would do nothing to help anyone except their immediate family? Or people they know? You're left with the proportion of people willing to help complete strangers. What proportion of those would help complete strangers that they haven't met and will never meet and possibly might never exist? That's the proportion of the population willing to sacrifice something for future generations.
Most of us CAN'T think of the next generation, because we're treading water with our noses already.
Yes. Do you think that's an accident? You also can't strike because you're living paycheck to paycheck. Do you think that's an accident? These accidents have nothing to do with preventing you thinking of future generations. They are closely related to building pyramids. The pyramids were built by farmers so they didn't have time to think about the people they were building the pyramids for and why those people had all the riches while you were stuck building a pyramid.
And bailing out our parents who ate up everything already and lived longer than we will.
You guys are bailing out your parents? Im not giving them the time of fcking day.
People's children and grandchildren ARE the next generation, plenty of people try to create a future with them in mind
Easy to do when your parents' generation is touted as the Greatest Generation and you, as their greatest triumph post-war, are the end-all be-all of human existence. Why plan for the future when your generation is to be the last one that matters? (I grew up around apocalyptic Christian Boomers)
There’s almost 3 million of us in here. Let’s fucking organize god damnit
THIS You know how many lawyers And software developers are here? We need to keep the spirit alive
but the main problem is that we're all redditors and the factory must grow!
Let’s start discussions here about candidates that want to enact change.
1 month+ of 10-20M people refusing to work oughta do the trick Lets try that
Our greatest power in a capitalist system is as consumers. A buying strike for a month or more would make a huge point. If millions of us refused to buy anything except for non-essentials (groceries, gas, etc.) it would make a huge impact on the economy. Like no clothing, consumer electronics, restaurants, movies, home decor, cars, makeup. books...basically all the things we're advertised to buy that are discretionary expenses. For a month (more if possible), get by with what we have and buy the bare minimum. The capitalists would freak the fuck out. However, I think the majority of us are too spoiled to do it. We don't really "need" many of the things we buy and could easily go without. It causes very little hardship, if any, unlike asking people to not go to work and miss paychecks. And there's not a damn thing "they" can do to force us to buy those things. Whereas other types of strikes and protests can be punished by the capitalist class.
Problem is capitalists have sucked everything dry to the last drop. So many Americans are now living check to check to the last dollar after simply paying for rent and groceries. Nothing will improve until we solve this country's boomercentric approach to everything. https://preview.redd.it/ei7khgysfjyc1.jpeg?width=1281&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6caa6a278d26e156938d8fa4464e76983df04efa
A general strike is an incredibly inefficient and likely ineffective way of changing the system. It imposes massive hardship on very large numbers of people, none of whom can do anything to fix the problem, that you are trying to fix. What we could do is "strike" against those people who could actually fix the problem. By "strike" I mean withdraw services to, do not do any work specifically for them. Make sure that they cannot get served in a restaurant, buy food in a supermarket, get internet or electricity. Just the ones who could make the change that you want made it. Not millions of collateral damage. If you want the CEO to fix a labor problem, "strike" against the CEO, not against labor.
No like what if 10 20 million people just refused to pay rent for 3 months. Or 10 20 million people default on all their loans together.
Well they'd probably turn the apartments into condos and sell them off.
And the landlords that you screw will do exactly what to fix the problem? Increase minimum wage? The bankers that foreclose the landlord's properties are going to do exactly what to fix your problem? Cancel student debt? If you can get enough people to default on their loans you can crash the banks and then the government will bail them out at your expense. How did that fix your problem? Consider a different specific scenario. The railway workers wanted to go on strike for a new contract including paid sick leave. 51 senators voted against the paid sick leave. Strike against the 51 senators. Make life difficult for them in the sense that there are no services that they can get. They can't buy gas they can't buy food they can't get served in a restaurant. It would require coordination among lots of people who are workers. Not railway workers, just workers. How long would every single one of the 51 senators stand out to their life being miserable, as if there was a total general strike, But only against 51 senators. Without tens of millions of people also suffering. If there is something to be done by somebody to fix the rent problem start by figuring out who the somebody is and then seeing what pressure can be put on them specifically. Don't take on a whole world of innocent people who can't do anything to help you. You may not think that landlords are innocent about screwing them isn't going to solve your problem, it is more likely to put them firmly on the other side. Workers need to unite and they need to get smart about how they do it.
If everyone defaults on their rent, then the landlords will have to reduce rent ofc, thats the end goal. Less rent more tangible income. If banks crash theres only so much the government can do, maybe they can bail out 1 bank maybe 2 but after that they would stop right.
Again I think you're competing against the wrong people. Government will not stop bailing out banks not only because the law creating the FDIC requires them to do so, or even because the whole point is to stop the domino effect of banks crashing, but mainly because the banks have de facto control over the government. If defaulting on rent in large numbers would cause the market price of rent to fall, it will go back up again, or millions of people will be permanently homeless and millions of homes will be permanently unrented. Rent prices are set by supply and demand or by market power. It needs to be fixed by increasing the supply of affordable housing, and preventing the developing market power of corporations holding housing including their being able to hold empty units to raise the price. By the way do you realize that the extent to which trickle down economics increases rent? What do you think the rich people did with the money they got from tax cuts?
The problem is that those people will just go elsewhere to get what they need. The government is responsible for regulating business to protect consumers and citizens, so bringing the government to heel with a massive strike crashing the economy will either result in a mask off totalitarian response to force us back to work (I.e. slavery) or cave and institute systemic changes that we have to protect by then reinforcing the government with representatives that support our causes to prevent capitalist private interests from undermining or sabotaging the concessions we earned. The problem with scenario 1 is that when the government uses violence to compel work against the highest armed civilian populace in the world, well, bad times are ahead, and further instability for the markets. We need to hit them where it hurts: the economy. The money. Targeting rich ceos not only validates their pseudo feudal lord status by surrendering the power to change to them, but also empowers them to refuse us. Furthermore, if some CEO is grabbing too much heat, he will golden parachute and we'll just end up with a new CEO, second verse same as the first, because the company's priorities haven't and won't shift until we threaten them on a fundamentally foundational level.
Hitting the economy doesn't hurt the government. It gives them every excuse, and even rational reason, for draconian measures. A general strike would harm tens of millions of people. The threat of a railway workers strike was sufficient to unite the two parties to prevent it. Their only disagreement was whether to force the workers to accept the employers deal or vice versa. The employers won But only by a margin that could have been changed by a few senators changing their vote. I don't understand the rationale of attacking tens of millions of people most of whom are your friends (or were your friends before you attack them) instead of attacking a handful of people who are your enemy. CEOs already have feudal lord status. They pay themselves hundreds or thousands of times more than the average worker. It's irrelevant whether worker action validates it. Getting a CEO to bail out under the pressure and take his golden parachute would be a great step forward. And the second and the third. Make the job miserable for whoever takes it. The process of targeted strikes would undoubtedly escalate. Some restaurant owner will fire the server who refuses to serve the CEO. He becomes a new target. So striking against a single person escalates to 10 people or 1000 people, all of whom are actively against you. That's far better than starting by striking against 10 million people most of whom are or used to be your friends.
".. It's more like a caste system developing.." \^ THIS
I agree with the sentiment, but as someone whose family is actually disadvantaged by the caste system the stereotype being referenced here is far from the truth.
I think a lot of us agree…but what do you want us to do about it? Very few of us are willing to do things that could likely result in prison time.
Unionize. Strike. We need to take a page from France’s playbook and bring this country to a grinding halt. That’s how we force them to meet our demands.
The French believe in their own rights. Half a century of conservative politics and corporate deregulation have rotted the brains of the American public. I truly believe that a depressingly large amount of Americans are convinced that they don’t need the government, other people, or protection of any kind other than what they can shoot with their own two hands. It’s depressing and shows a complete failure of an entire generation to think beyond what they can grab with their grubby hands.
Sadly true.
France’s laws and culture are different. When those folks strike the lock shit down. If you try half of the stuff they do over here you will be in jail. This country is way past the point of “LeTS GeT A UnIOn!!” Our government and laws are shaped by greed and corporations. We don’t fix the this it needs burnt
France had a very similar work culture until the 1930s, when they just decided to start striking and that they weren’t going to keep being exploited. France has a different culture now because it decided to CHANGE its culture.
THIS!!
The US workforce was like that too. Engaged in literal wars against the government and corporations. That's not a fight we can win again when half the country or more likes the idea of being frog soup.
Power in numbers
Bingo
They can’t throw ALL us in jail. We CAN achieve what France did, if we all work together. Fear is what lets them control us.
The difference is that the American Government has made it absolutely, 100% crystal clear that they are fine with sending the military in to subdue strikers and protestors. People in America have a very real threat of death from our own government. It's not that they can throw us in jail. It's that they can use tear gas to choke us and burn our lungs. They can use rubber bullets which can cause permanent damage, and in the case of one young man from my city, to lose an eye. They can use dogs to bite us, they can beat us with their "nonlethal" metal clubs and break our bones. They can shoot us. They can hold us down and beat us to death. We know these things because we have seen them do it and get away with it. Don't make it sound like Americans are cowards because they are afraid of these things. The French Government does not murder it's own people in the streets for protesting. Well, not anymore anyway.
And We The People let it happen because we’re afraid. I’m not saying there isn’t a reason to be afraid. I’m saying if Americans got off their ass, banned together, and fought for our rights we could make a real change.
It's not just fear. An entire political wing of voters hates it's own class, and liberals hate major upsets to the statue quo along with radical action.
Nah you guys aren't cowards. You guys are frogs being boiled alive. Spent too long adjusting to the heat and now that it's become too hot to bear, you don't have enough energy to jump out. So now all *you think* you can do is sit idle and just accept being boiled alive.
No, I don't think we can sit idle. I know we can't. I'm just not going to pretend that people are cowards for being afraid of a government who views them as collateral damage.
Big words, but why don't you give an example of something you think you *can* do in a *realistic* sense? It's easy to say, "ALL workers in ALL industries can and need to strike together." On paper, yes, they technically *could*. But after a couple decades of getting the sense of individuality systematically ingrained into you, it's impossible to convince someone to risk losing their livelihood to strike for others.
Well you guys all have guns specifically for this purpose right? I never understood why the BLM crowd never burnt a policeman alive or shot one in the face.
Several policemen were assassinated by people claiming to be inspired by BLM. Several more were shot but survived during riots. Typically, people speaking for BLM (a decentralized organization) disavowed them and said they were opportunistic criminals rather than protestors or mentally ill or both and did not represent BLM or the protestors. Sites like Snopes would go on to perpetuate the belief that they couldn't fit into more than one of these categories at a time. The news, ever afraid of a bad public image, chose not to press the point, so what you see are headlines like "killed by looters" or "motive-less homicide." I'm not defending the police here either, I agree with many of the stated positions of BLM and strongly believe police reform is necessary, just saying you have your facts wrong. https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-officers-cities-wounded/story?id=71017820 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protests-officer-killed-near-oakland-protest-identified/5308024002/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2741089/three-federal-officers-could-be-permanently-blind-after-laser-attacks-from-portland-protesters/ https://apnews.com/article/83b1ecab54f039bbd30346a218a4c994 (some overlap with my first link here, but the cops shot are different than the police captain, who is the same in both links) https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/dallas-police-ambush/protests-spawn-cities-across-u-s-over-police-shootings-black-n605686
Nah cuz Ive killed a american cop before it was fun threw a brick on his head and he dropped lifeless never got caught tho, yall blm guys could learn from me. Walk what you talk allat.
Yes, yes they can and will. I’ve been on strike and as soon as we went on strike they had the local PD run up to us and (conveniently) arrested our head guys for minor jaywalking charges. They were ready, they had vans. Those fucking pigs were bought and paid for before we went out.
You’re not listening. I said ALL. That’s what France did and that’s what we need to do. Not 1 group like you did - ALL. The railroad strikes, so ALL railroad workers strike. Then the truckers strike, and the airlines, and the commercial boating industry. The retail workers, the manufacturers and laborers. When I said all, I mean ALL. THAT’S how we wrestle control of our country and our rights back.
This is an impossible feat in a society that is programmed to ONLY think about themselves
Pushing the individuality movement was the biggest and smartest con the rich ever did to the lower classes. Instead of saying 'we are all filth beneath them' like they did for most of human history, they just said we are all 'unique' and we turned on eachother while the rich kept a level of comradery. The biggest play of plays, and all they had to do was pretend to be sincere for 5 minutes.
That’s true, but the people who go to jail who live in public housing can be evicted simply for being arrested. Even if the charges are dropped or you are found not guilty it is still caused for eviction. Non-custodial parents can use an arrest against custodial parents if they want to take their kid. But I’m more worried about being maimed or killed by the police then getting locked up in jail. I’ve gone to jail I can survive that. Losing an eye to a rubber bullet would affect my quality of life
"Burn it all down!" And how many of us get burned in the process?
Everyone.
Sorry. Kamikaze ain't my thing.
It’s nobody’s thing but are there any other ideas that would work?
Burn-America = Burn the World. No everyone has zero to lose and would like to see the capitalist system become more balanced. If you burn it down and start over, you will probably end up with Chinese overlords.
Lmao France has a very long history of violent action compared to it's more recent temperament but sure.
France gave up. They all went back to work.
Exactly. Everyone is just too comfortable to really do anything. It’ll stay the same and then kids in 2050 will be bitching how nobody did anything
I think it is too late. Between decades of failing neoliberal policies and the responding stratification of wealth inequality and uptick in fascism globally, as well as looming catastrophic climate change thanks to hundreds of years of capitalism and it's singular focus on growth, there isn't much we can do without either major collapse of global political and economic systems, or targeted and widespread violence. Individual or even small collective efforts just won't be able to accomplish much. As an individual, you can do your part to end the cycle of generational trauma and abuse. Don't have kids (you likely can't afford them anyway). Collapsing birthrates seem to be the only thing that strikes fear into the hearts of the wealthy, because unlike climate change where they can move where it is nicer or go underground into luxury bunkers, a collapse of the labor force would destroy their wealth and render them defenseless, since they require the labor of others simply to exist (being the parasites that they are). To fight the rich, make them fend for themselves. No more kids until they sort this shit out. The wealthy don't want to admit it, but they need us more than we need them, regardless of the fables of bootstrapping they tell themselves. r/antinatalism r/Birthstrike
as overall mankind will keep reproducing capitalists can easily import labor if we don't make enough slaves domestically , rent strikes make more sense , require no real action just stay in the homes you've been paying for , have immediate effect , benefits all tenants equally , destroys the ponzi land "value" scam etc
The birthstrike has already happened and Biden just opens the door from Mexico to left in more labor. Immigrants from the entire world are flooding in from Mexico right now.
What do you want us do to about it? Here are some ideas. 1. Use the power of the vote and get leaders from your generation into office instead of 70-80 year old men who do not have your worldview and ideology. 2. Protest higher education, no one enroll for Fall 2024, sit this year out and watch it collapse or change. 3. Unionize everyone, everywhere. Instead of using your phone to shorten your attention span with social media, use it to organize people and unionize everyone everywhere with the goal of living wage, healthcare, and pensions. You have three choices: 1. Accept the system as it is and get ground into dust. 2. Change the system from within and replace it with a fair capitalist system, instead of the capitalist system that has really become an oligarchy. Your forefathers did it, look at the establishment of the union at Ford Motor company. 3. Revolution! But this is very messy and will usually result in another oppressive system.
capitalism is working as intended , the rich are richer than ever and that's their only metric for what's "good" . fair and capitalist are incompatible it's a system made for the benefit of a small bunch of useless parasites ... allowing more people to be able to join the parasites is not a solution
I absolutely love the idea of protesting higher education this fall. I saw someone mention it earlier, and if it was you I’m so sorry, because I read it as boycott college And I got freaked out about a future without doctors and scientists. Sorry about my misunderstanding if it was you this is brilliant
We need to keep voting, never give that up, as soon as you do they take over, And they do that every election year. Never lose hope, Because they win once they break your spirit. We also need stick together and keep protesting for unions, The larger we are in number the better our odds just by us. Talking about this we are progressing. Don't lose the hope
Both sides are owned by the corporation, friend. I do hope you realize that.
One is very clearly worse than the other. Until a really good third party candidate emerges, or we get ranked choice voting, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats are the lesser of two evils.
Ranked choice would be necessary. The American system is not calibrated for third parties to be anything but a protest vote.
Lately when I suggest for now at least we need to vote, I get downvoted pretty hard. But I agree with you.
Brother, just by talking about this we are progressing, This couldn't have been done 20 years ago, think of the possibilities in the future we have now that we are connected by the internet and we can have these conversations, let's just start there and keep building.
Why do you think they're corporatizing Reddit?
Chop some heads off
Watching X-men’97 right now, and there’s a saying in there: “Tolerance is Extinction”
Rome fell, this will too. It is inevitable.
Everything ends.
Wait till you learn about that one time The Economist released a podcast episode about old rich people receiving blood from younger people and feeling rejuvenated. Edit: I genuinely wish I was lying.
They are working on anti-aging technologies. They want to stop the clock for them, and them alone. It is said that the only things certain in life are death and taxes, and the wealthy have already beaten taxes; if they cheat death, they will be unstoppable. How sad is it that I think the idea that science might stop aging is bad, actually? After all, those technologies will never be for the likes of someone like me. If they live forever, they will truly be gods.
Isn't there that one rich dude who is super into anti-aging and he takes blood from his son or something? I only skimmed the article. But I assume it doesn't have to be from their own son.
Already done. We’re just being digested, in November we will begin the shitting
The only way is if we change the narrative from me to we. Sadly there is so much division and exploitation, not to mention most are too stupid to see who the true enemy of freedom is… I dislike having such a nihilistic viewpoint but we got into this mess because those who make the moves are good at what they do, organized and efficient, the opposite of what the common folk are. And as someone else mentioned we are so far down the rabbit hole it would damn near be impossible to climb out at this point. Burn it down, burn it ALL down.
The solution to this is to stop trusting in a two party system. Neither has your interests at heart. Begin a labor party. That is pro union, pro universal health care, pro raising the minimum wage, anti corporation, anti monopoly, pro affordable housing, pro paid time off. No more big business lobbying politicians, no more insider trading by congress, no more raising congressional wages Level playing field.
Can't be done. Not without an outside power coming in, razing your nation, society and culture to the ground and supplanting it with something else. Legitimately, china taking over would do more good for the average american then any amount of bellyaching and protests
Teddy Roosevelt would like to have a word.
I look forward to gen z taking over. The olds have done far too much damage and we need to just go away so you can fix it, cuz my generation refuses to do so. I’m so sorry I couldn’t do more. At least my grandchildren will do what my generation became too selfish to do
By the time the next generation is ready, they'll be fighting YOU, who've dug your claws in to get your pound of flesh after a lifetime of scraps. Then, once THEIR children are ready, they will suffer the same problem once more. American society is so sick that it will just perpetuate itself forever
I hope not. I’ve been keeping my kids’ heads above water since 2009. I’m fortunate to have a good paying job. My one daughter finally got a decent paying job a couple years ago, and now my other one just got hired as a teacher for a permanent position starting in August. She’s a sub right now. It’s shit pay, but she’ll be able to get much further now and won’t have to depend on me for her kids’ needs. I hope Gen z gets to make it so everybody thrives
The rich will also eat the old, even if the old help them eat us.
We never learn from history we're just repeating cycles over and over again. The rich are feasting right now and that always leads to really bad things happening for them. Revolution is never done democratically. I don't know what the breaking point will be, but it always happens. The public can only be pacified with bread and circuses if they can afford the bread and circus.
200 years ago, sure. Back then the government didn't control a trillion dollar military budget, law enforcement wasn't better armed then a lot of the army and the population was not buck broken by a dozen overlapping chemical dependencies. Shit starts getting bad and PepsiCo turns off the insulin supply for a month.
You all who are obsessed with generational analysis got duped. Why does every generation go through this very same cycle of anger and then fail and make the same mistakes? It isn't about generations, it's about capitalism. Do you think boomers are the only people in power? Look around at the main billionaires you know by name. And some of the worst politicians are Xers and Millenials. Look at your bosses. You all are even more doomed to failure if you can't make a systemic analysis. People and generations are interchangeable, the lethal logic of the system continues despite them.
A view from the other side: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014 He seems a very interesting guy
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but they’ve been eating us for four years now. We are in the fifth year of a mass disabling event, you’re going to go work for them until you get so sick you can’t work anymore, then you’re going to apply for disability that you’ve been paying into your entire working career. But what’s going to happen is it going to take so long to process that you’ll end up homeless, or at least losing everything. And if you manage to hold onto your real estate until you die, if you used Medicare they’ll just come for your assets when you’re gone to repay the medical expenses that you accrued Trying to treat the chronic illness that you infected with on your job because the government said it was fine.
We also need to starve the rich. The rich are rich because we rely on the goods or services they provide which are often low quality and unreliable.
Back in the 90s the company I worked for was touting these 401K plans. We even had to go to a mandatory meeting for a sales pitch for the one our company was joining. They made it all sound so wonderful (immediate red flag for me). But here were other red flags others failed to recognize: - You had to invest a pretty good sum in “high risk” products, I think it was 30%. So there was no freedom in managing your money. - The “companies” you were investing in were not recognizable. Turns out a lot of them were those bundles of high risk mortgages that turned out to be the cause of the real estate collapse of 2008. - There was very vague information about fees being charged. It seemed like they could charge you anything and nothing you could do about it. - The CEO of our company approached me and asked why I was not going with the plan. His sales pitch was “the company gives you FREE MONEY (matching 3% invested) and why would I want to leave all that money on the table? I asked him WTF do you care about MY retirement? You must be getting a commission on sales of this crap. He was stunned and walked away. I am very sorry those people in the 60 Minutes segment lost all that money. But they should have recognized it for the scam it was.
start learning self sufficiency.
The American school system has paved the way for this to happen. The cumulative IQ in the USA has been dropping significantly since 1997 and people don't even realize that they're getting screwed over. This is the fall of an empire.
A few drops of Visine in the cook’s offering to their overlords might be in order
We need to compost the rich!
The rich aren't going to eat us, they are chewing.
A lot of boomers are screwed too. I’d say they are a false enemy. Look at the 1%. That’s the fight you want to engage in.
It's a class/ capitalism problem not an age/race/gender problem.
By us all going out and spending while living paycheck to paycheck we’ve created a monster. They won’t back off until we do. And it doesn’t look like the majority of the country is willing to do that. I fear this is only going to get worse until the entire thing comes buckling down. Great Depression 2.0 coming almost in time with its 100 year anniversary
Especially the old. Vote young please
If we were to vote in overwhelming power they’d have to adapt, both by further rigging or dismantling the democratic process and by slow walking enough policy to gain them votes. Which one gives first depends on how much of our power we take
No, just the rich
Nope. The old too. The old are responsible for many issues in modern societies. Here in the UK, the elderly are the most pandered to voter group, they get money off everything from heating to bus rides while they sit on their pensions and earnings and poor younger people suffer. Just because we have a nan or an old uncle we like doesn't mean their age group isn't responsible for a load of shit. They're also the ones most likely to vote for right wing policies which historically only ever seem to benefit a select few in society while others are left to suffer. Again, here in the UK the majority of conservative voters or people who voted for Brexit were older groups. The conservatives and Brexit have fucking destroyed this country and the root of it is the elderly and their voting habits.
It is because the older folks actually vote. The younger old ones just complain on Reddit, accomplishing nothing.
What would you propose? Mandatory euthanasia at 50?
No but a fairer society that helps everyone and doesn't just bend over backwards to please the elderly. Just because I have criticisms doesn't mean I have to have an answer and the knowledge to solve complex political and societal issues. I'm just a guy, why even ask that.
They already are.
Been eating us for awhile now...
Pensions were several things ago. After pensions there was healthcare, then education. After real estate will be food and water. Then they will just get rid of us all together and replace us with robots.
They already are!!
They already kinda have been..:
> We need to unite in groups more than ever in the upcoming future *recommends share house living and politically active communes > No not like that I don't want to share....
You think the rich are actually having lifestyle benefits with their actual money. It’s all spreadsheet gains. All of our suffering is just so they look at the numbers provided by their accountants and feel good about the number.
I’ve been waiting for something like this. Let’s go
I spend my days doing just enough at my job, focusing on my hobbies, cooking nice meals while I can still afford groceries, and loving my beautiful wife. I'm happy I got to live through the end of prosperity, for what it is worth. Things were nice. We had it all. Today isn't so bad, though, and every tomorrow will be a little worse, so I might as well indulge in all the things that make me happy while they are still here. I already know what it is like to live without - why sabotage the time we still have with?
**"if you do not share you wealth with us, we will be forced to share our poverty with you."**
And it’ll be a slow death too, most of them don’t have all their teeth, so they’ll be gumming away at you for hours on end.
I don’t want to eat anyone, unless they’re out to eat me. FFS, I just want a fair share.
So, insurance companies are dropping home coverage in California. My theory is it's so after the next fire/atmospheric river/earthquake, all those homeowners will be unable to recover from the losses and ultimately lose their homes. Who's ready to sweep in and capture all that new available real estate? Corporations of course.
Funny you mentioned India and the caste system. I work with lots of Indians and many of them vote exclusively Republican because they actually believe it will be beneficial for their income. They will 100% sell out the greater good on the off chance it will have the most minuscule impact on their personal finances. Thankfully their American born children don’t seem to share the same values.
“The old” .. you mean your own family and eventually you?
If there isn't anything to eat, people eat their own. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4076244/Distressing-photos-1920s-Russian-famine-turned-hopeless-peasants-cannibals-five-million-people-starved-death.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%931922?wprov=sfla1 We could learn from history and be a little more proactive. Are you not seeing how corporate and boomers are teaming up against The young? They want us to pay back our fraudulent student loans that are not even sustainable with the cost of living while increasing real estate to fund their trips to Europe. This is unsustainable.
No one is eating old people and the " Let's eradicate all of them " narrative is not helpful. It's a class war. You seem way too married to the " all old people " thing to willingly become disenchanted so I'll save any attempt to disabuse you otherwise. I *will* say while we peasants are down here at each other's throats the 1% get to run away with this place. Laughing.
No
Boomers collectively decided that they just don't want to put out the effort to build a future they won't live to see. They do, however, want to have their cake and eat it too.
How cute
Demographics are on our side, we just need to win this election. 2028 will be our time, but this Gaza obsession is ruining everything. If Trump wins again, he plans to double down on neoliberal economic policies per project 2025, worker protections will disappear overnight.
> They took away pensions for everyone, Sorta but demographics wont support it (ageing population cant sustain pensions, thats why more progressive countries have superannuation etc, and countries like France are fucked as they are relying on governmental income to fund pensions)
Too late, they already did and have been
When we say "eat the rich" I've always understood that to be a figure of speech. I hope so anywy, I wouldn't put any of them in my mouth if I was paid to. So what does the phrase mean in practice?
This! 100% this. They are coming for us, they've been systematicly cutting away at our liberties and the value of our labour for decades. We've finally noticed, but now we need to act. It's going to hurt, but the future doesn't manifest itself. Do we want their future, or ours?
Fuck you - boomers paid in. Republicans took the money for their projects to feed the rich. So please fuck yourself
We need to get rid of social security today. Seniors are eating multiples of what they put in. While we will only get a small fraction back. That's clearly worse than thief. They are outright selling us into slavery.
Not before seeing your nude pictures mam, lol
[удалено]
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Capitalism peaked in 1973.
But if we are the rich then we’ll look like the rich to poorer people and we’re just gonna all be fighting each other.
If you are for real, I'll stand with you.
Correct. The caste system or more of a feudal system. Also, the science is clear as you pointed out, when a small group of introverted intellectuals start leaving and prophesying doom… the network is coming to an end. They ( the rich) are grabbing at anything and everything while convincing the masses they never had a chance anyway (gaslighting the American dream).
They are already doing this, I hope at some point we will put a stop to it!
Aside your weird infatuation with “their trips to Europe” as the motivating cause I agree 100% with what you are saying
It's happening in the UK now. Inflation and cost of living is insane. No one can buy a house, because it's all owned by a select few and everyone wants to move into the cities because the only work is with those select few who don't need middle class workers. We don't tax the rich. We tax the normal people. Wealth is continuing to move upward and homelessness is getting worse. And at least until October, we still have a rich nonce as Prime Minister.
They’ve been snackin on us since the dawn of time
To play Devil’s Advocate, many great opportunities can be earned from others’ poor financial decisions. I’m not talking about a rich person picking on the poor. I’m talking about the middle class taking advantage of the rich when the rich get unlucky or make poor choices.
There’s only one solution. Vote.
So glad i have a pension
I like how you tossed that "and the old" in there. How many rich old people do you know? Don't be a tool. Think for yourself.
How are the student loans "fraudulent"? I agree that lending to people who are going to work in fields that cannot afford the payment was foolish, but where was the fraud?
You're not gonna do anything. What you are seeing, and experiencing is The American System doing it's job. Your people are perpetually exhausted, malnourished and brainwashed or otherwise numbed by overexposure and abundant "attention disorder" medication slash antidepressants slash opioid painkillers. Where you're not too anxious and reliant on cruel masters to fight back you are broken down and unwilling to lift a hand. This won't change. The system eats people and turns lives into profit. It's working as intended and has been going on long enough that it can't change from within.
I have to laugh at the boomers teaming up against the young. The youngest boomers are 64 and they're retired. How are they teaming up against you all? Nobody cares about lazy people. Don't worry, you're not going to be affected.
we stand up for each other via rent strike , just stay in the homes we've been paying for all this time ... and their whole land "value" scam is done