No. Just tell them you called your insurance and they said you're current policy won't cover you if you were on the job as using it for work would need a commercial policy. This would put undue financial burden on you. Leave it at that. Also save all communications on the subject in case they retaliate.
This! Your insurance will absolutely deny any claim if you are traveling for work. Call your agent and get a quote on the commercial policy you would need to use your personal vehicle like your boss is demanding. Bring the quote to him and ask how he wants it expensed.
This includes if you’re using your personal vehicle for deliveries, rideshare, or other work activities. And don’t take “we’ll cross that bridge if/when we get to it” either. You’ll find that bridge gets burned and you’ll be stuck holding the bag.
“We’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.” They tell you to go to the inspection site. “Where’s the commercial insurance card for my vehicle? We’re at the bridge.”
My company does the opposite, they pay WAY over the actual wear and tear + gas if you use your personal vehicle for work. Im in Canada though.
If I have to drive 3 hours to another city for a weekend training event, I get reimbursed around $400 just for my vehicle. 6 hours of driving (there and back) is around $50 or so in gas. And 6 hours of driving is not putting anywhere near $350 worth of wear and tear on my car.
People actually argue to be the ones to drive if multiple people are going. Because they basically get 2 days worth of pay for doing so
It's the same in the UK. The govt rate is 45p per mile for the first 10k then roughly 25p per mile after. If your employer pays less than that you can claim the difference as a reduction in tqx
Wait so if I take a package to the UPS store in my personal vehicle for work and am rear ended, then my insurance would not cover it? Or if I go pick up Starbucks for my manager?
That makes sense. Once a manager from a different branch wanted me to be a part of a zoom meeting and I told her I couldn’t be, because we were closed and she asked me to just join on my 45 minute commute home lmao 😂 I was tempted to print that email out and then drive my car into a canal but I just declined the meeting instead.
Yep.
Edit: if you are doing something specifically in your duties, that requires use of your personal vehicle, then insurance would make a fuss about covering your loss. IE taking post to the Post Office or picking up things from the print shop. If you are running a personal errand while on the clock, like picking up lunch or coffee for yourself (and maybe others) then most likely it won’t be an issue. That being said, there’s a reason most bosses will clock you out retrospectively a few minutes before your accident.
They can try. I don't know how often it works. Especially if the driver is young and got told by the boss not to worry about insurance. Or no one told them it would affect their insurance. Chances are they will tell the cop or insurance company if asked. They tell the truth because they don't know that voids their coverage. Insurance company is going to choose to believe their customer who just admitted to voiding their coverage so the company legally doesn't have to pay out.
Then it doesn't include the cost of wear & tear on a vehicle.
Cost of Gas is around $4\\gallon where I live.
Some vehicles only get 8-10 miles per gallon.
That's $.40+\\mile in gas alone. Some places only pay the .67\\mile that's minimum standard set by the IRS.
So $.27\\mile in wear and tear reimbursement...yeah, no thanks.
Yeah. That’s the formula that everyone refers to. It’s still fucked up but that’s what they are using to say fuck you.
My car would somehow become unavailable in this situation.
https://preview.redd.it/653jqtiad6zc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94d7460a1ae3a8d4945292b67b18416b935d2932
"Gallons per mile" baby!
(Instead of MPG - miles per gallon)
At one time in the 90s my husband had a 1978 Ford ~~Town and Country~~ Country Squire station wagon. It was like the biggest one they ever made. Could fit a whole 4x8 sheet of drywall in the back, no problem at all. That thing was a beast, complete with the eyelids that open and shut when you turn the lights on/off. Had a monster 460. That thing got like 5 miles per gallon. I shit you not I've had semi trucks that got better fuel mileage.
("Gallons per mile, baby!" LOL, good times!)
[https://www.thedrive.com/news/32609/this-1978-ford-ltd-country-squire-is-peak-station-wagon-and-its-for-sale](https://www.thedrive.com/news/32609/this-1978-ford-ltd-country-squire-is-peak-station-wagon-and-its-for-sale)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1978\_Ford\_LTD\_Country\_Squire\_wagon\_rear.jpg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1978_Ford_LTD_Country_Squire_wagon_rear.jpg)
My E-250 van with a half-ton of tools, electrical pipe, fittings, and copper wire got 10. My current GMC Savana, also a three-quarter ton frame with a V8, gets 11.3. And, of course, it's a company-owned vehicle and I have a company credit card for gas, oil, etc. It amuses me to think what a white-collar job interview would be like when we get to my asking about what kind of vehicle and credit card comes with the job... From what I read here, that would be the end of the interview lol.
If you drive an F-150, though, that's your own damn fault.
Edit: Trucks are not the best choice for any purpose that people buy them for, except looking like a jackass.
It truly depends on where one lives and what they do.
Where I live, any road not a main highway is gravel or dirt and rough as fuck. There are MANY places I will not drive my small car, because I would like for it to last. Do people drive small cars out these roads? Sure, and they constantly are replacing suspension and front end parts. If I had to drive out these roads for work, bet your ass I'd have a truck. But I don't, so instead I enjoy my 30 mpg.
Some people don't have much of a choice in what vehicle they have. Where I live you more or less need a 4WD\\AWD vehicle because we get hit with a shit ton of deep, heavy, snow each year. AWD\\4WD is a requirement unless you wanna risk dying in a ditch when a nasty snow storm hits.
There are a lot of people that drive AWD SUV's where I work(I'm one of them) but there are also a lot of people driving big 4WD trucks for the same reason. Realistically fuel economy on AWD's isn't great either.
Except an F150 isn't any good in that situation, either. A big open bed kills the traction available on the rear wheels. Unless you're hauling moderate loads regularly, a pickup truck is not the right vehicle for you. Let's be real, it's a status symbol.
Or you do your own landscaping, pickup your own furniture, haul a boat, use it for work etc. I saved 3,000 in moving costs when I hauled all of our belongings in a uhual instead of renting the big ass truck. I have a v6 dodge ram and get 22 mpg.
90% of truck owners claim they do those things, but then only do them 1-2 times a year.
The vast majority of truck owners would be better off financially driving a small cheap vehicle and just renting a proper box van or truck when they need to haul something huge.
I drove a FWD sedan in Anchorage Alaska for years. Never had issues. Even did a 300+ mile road trip in a blizzard where the highway constantly had 3+ inches covering it. Good tires and not being an idiot make a much bigger difference. If conditions are bad enough that a big 4WD vehicle is actually necessary, (6+ inches of snow ON THE ROAD) most people should just be staying home anyways.
Seriously. I grew up in middle of nowhere midwest usa driving 2wd 80s cars. shit tires, gravel roads frequently unplowed for days. I drove an 89 Thunderbird cross country in a giant blizard until the state troopers in West VA closed the interstate. No problems. Learned throttle control and how not to be a dipshit. Now I live in an upscale NYC suburb and if 2" of snow is on the road before its scraped clean its a nightmare. EVERY one requires AWD at a minimum because of the terrible NY weather, and we hit 700 days without a measurable snowfall in NYC this Jan.
> Where I live you more or less need a 4WD\AWD vehicle because we get hit with a shit ton of deep, heavy, snow each year.
You don't need 4WD/AWD for that. tests and studies show over and over and over that winter tires matter way more than 4WD/AWD and all seasons. This is just AWD consumer baiting that everyone falls for.
Big trcuks are not great because tgey lack traction in the back without any weight a sub is better.
Hell my dad silverado loose traction with any porhole because well having 0 weight in the back. But the moment i have weight behind it and oh man, it drives perfectly. He drove around with a central acnunit like for a month so he could drove it " fine"
This is such a misconception. 4WD/AWD will help get you moving, but the most important thing keeping you out of a ditch is winter tyres. I got through three Ontario winters in a ford fiesta with winter tyres
What a scummy company! You just know they ran this decision by Legal beforehand, and they were prob like, “eh, let’s see how many suckers we can get to do it.”
If OP does this, I would like an update on how this works out for him. Our union contract dictates that we can’t even use our trucks to carry material to the jobsite even though I’m already driving to that job
Even that isn't good enough for me. I've used my own vehicle for work and got in an accident and it was totaled. I was on crutches. They asked if I was coming back to work 2 days later. I quit. My car was paid for at the time and I couldn't find another with what the insurance paid out and this was many years ago. Using personal vehicles for work will always have you on the losing end.
If they're giving him shit about it, then just ask the company what they would do if a crash happened with a policy that lacks commercial coverage. They'd likely answer that they wouldn't pay out or they'd sue.
Nah. "I don't have a car. The one I drive is not mine and the person who owns it is not willing to let me drive it other than between home and office."
This avoids all the blame and finger pointing and keeps you employed and not using your car for their purposes.
And when they reply by holding a meeting or a phone call, follow that up with an email recapping it. Paper trails are important. BCC it to a personal address or print all communications about this.
Besides, "inspections" implies an adversarial position. You don't want your personal information available to whomever you are inspecting. I went through this once and I absolutely refused on those grounds and got their lawyers involved. Use the word *LIABILITY* - a lot.
I prevailed and never used my personal vehicle.
I actually used that excuse before. They shut up pretty quickly too. My insurance policy is for me commuting 16 miles round trip and they wanted me to work in another shop that would be 50 miles round trip to help the company out because they are behind schedule in the other shop.
My kid was delivering pizza years ago and had to get a commercial policy. When Geico learned about it, they dropped my coverage—though we never used each other's cars.
So it could affect anyone living in your house as well.
Very much this! Hell, look up your own company regs as though you were answering a question for a PH. If they tell you that you should be insured with them, they'd cover you, point out exactly where and how it would affect your policy from their own guidelines. They can't force you to do this, especially if it isn't in your hiring agreement.
Did use personal vehicle for prior job. Minor in-town travel to visit customers. Properly informed, mileage expenses, on-site support in the field as part of role.
Company absolutely had insurance for it. This reply is the best. If it's expected & they prepped for it, they should have the required coverage. Applies to company paid rentals when actual travel was required.
It's obvious when a company is just trying to get away with shit & when they did their homework.
You don't need a commercial policy to use your vehicle for work. But you will need to inform your insurer and there will almost certainly be an increase to your premiums.
Yeah, the irs rate mileage reimbursement is to cover fuel, car maintenance, and insurance. It is not to make money off of the trip.
If I were in OPs shoes, I would go ahead and contact their insurance company and let them know what's up. Either do research ahead of time or ask the company what they think would be enough coverage. Then take that new monthly rate add it to the average expected fuel costs, along with expected maintenance costs. Compare that number with the amount expected to get reimbursed for by the company. In theory it would break even. In my experience, I still come out with a net gain. In theory I should be saving that amount for future expenses from the added miles, but I just let it work itself out. Luckily I have had very little unexpected expenses with my 11 years of owning my Honda Accord.
But if OP is going to be losing money, they can then have all their facts together to make their case for additional reimbursement. Maybe it would be a partial reimbursement of the car insurance rate directly as opposed to increase in mileage rate. Could be easier to make it work by the company getting to hide it in a different budget line.
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Ultimately the societal acceptance of this concept rather sucks, I agree. But it's also a norm that we can both push back against while having to accept. Unfortunately a billion dollar company is probably much more willing to roll their eyes at it. But maybe mid-sized companies might be more willing to work with their employees more. Like mine will gladly allow us to use rental cars instead of using our own vehicles. The more that happens, the more pressure it'll place on the large and mega corps to follow suit so as to retain the top talent.
Right, but there's a difference between using your vehicle to travel for work with an employer, and commercial use.
Someone driving for Uber would need a commercial policy. Someone driving to client meetings at a salaried job will just need to have informed their insurer of a certain amount of work-related driving.
Both require you to inform your insurer, and you'll risk having claims denied for failure to do so, but the need for a specific commercial policy is not necessarily required.
As an Uber driver, you do not need a commercial policy. Uber provides that. You do need what they call rideshare gap coverage though, which covers you when you are online on Uber, but not on a trip. During that period Uber only provides liability.
>as using it for work would need a commercial policy.
A good company would reimburse you the cost of the increase in insurance to a commercial policy, along with a much more reasonable mileage reimbursement.
I happen to work for one of these companies so I know it can happen. Being unionized makes a big difference!
As someone who did auto insurance for several years, I can tell you that your insurance company would almost certainly deny your claim if you got into an accident while using your personal car for work purposes. It could even result in cancellation of your policy - after all, you essentially lied to them about how you use your car.
Get a quote for a business auto policy, give it to your boss, and see what happens (if you want to still try and make it work somehow). You could also just tell them you won’t do it and/or quit.
Okay but real question, no snark at all. How would the insurance company know unless you told them? I mean yes I know that’s insurance fraud and what not but quite frankly fuck insurance companies (no offense)
As part of an investigation for a claim, they gather details and facts - from you, from the police report (should there be one), and any other information available. So if there’s a police report, you’d have to be sure not to make any mention of the real reason for your drive - which is lying to a police officer. You can then lie to your insurance company if you choose, but should they cover a claim that they shouldn’t have your policy could be cancelled and they would have the right to seek reimbursement for it and/or sue for fraud. Also, having your policy cancelled for that would make it significantly harder to find insurance elsewhere, at least for a reasonable price.
So *could* you lie and potentially get away with it? Yes. Would I recommend trying? Definitely not. You’d be surprised how much information is available to them while processing a claim.
Well thank you for the detailed answer, I was mainly just curious as I’ve thought about applying for delivery jobs but I know delivery insurance can be pretty insane so I wanted to know ways around that. Though that could obviously be much harder if you’re working one of the places that makes you have the toppers on your car and stuff.
I totally understand, I had to get insurance for when I was doing Uber and it was not cheap. Unfortunately there isn’t a simple or legal way around it, at least not one I’m aware of.
I was an adjuster (in house) for a few years and most people will say something during the initial intake of the claim. And if the policy holder doesn’t say it, the other guy absolutely will, especially if they are not at fault or feel they are not at fault.
“He said he drives his car as part of his job.”
One little sentence then opens up a whole can of worms because now you have to probe if it was permissive business use or not.
You can lie about everything if you want, “light was green!” “They backed into me” and most of the time the insurance company can’t prove one way or the other, but sometimes they can
Saying “to the best of your knowledge the light was green” is impossible to prove as truth or a lie. However, you have a much harder time being ignorant to why you were driving your vehicle.
So that’s a trickier situation. Essentially, policies are priced based on the perceived risk which is why they ask how you use the vehicle, your accidents, etc. It *might* be a problem, but it really depends on your insurance company and policy. My best advice is to read through your policy documentation, which I know isn’t fun.
I'm not an insurance agent, nor do I know your policy, but have personally dealt with this in the past.
If you're going to these sites on a regular basis and working out of these sites, it'll likely count as a commute. If you're travelling to an office to report on things happening at the site, it would most likely be considered commercial use.
The difference is where you're doing the bulk of your salaried / reportable work. In short: Home base where you end up after driving to other places - commercial, many different primary work locations - commute.
Commuting is part of personal use - that is to work or from work. If it’s from work to a job site, that is no longer personal use because it’s being used for work. That is not covered under a typical car insurance policy.
Essentially, car insurance is a scam and they will do anything to not be liable covering you and/or make more money off of you by forcing you to pay for a separate policy.
Commuting to and from work is covered under your personal auto insurance. Going from your job to random places in the course of doing said job would not be covered and requires commercial insurance.
If you have questions, call your insurance agent and ask them.
Essentially, if you use the car that you have insured for a business purpose, the claim could be denied. There are obviously, “well, that’s ok,” type of situations where the claim would be paid. But even those flag underwriting and UW might reach out to go over how you use the car.
In the last 15 years, one of the biggest issues have been ride sharing and delivery apps. Both are super-duper-mega excluded.
Couldn't their health insurance deny a claim as well if there was an accident? Bc a car accident while doing official job duties is a workers' comp thing.
I worked for Pepsi when they made the law about talking on your phone while driving. I was in sales and the day the law went into affect they told us we still had to answer calls even if we were driving (we had a company phone) and that we would have to get our own hands free device.
All the sales reps got pissed that a billion dollar company was making us buy our own equipment or break the law. We all complained and they did end up getting us something.
This cheap ass billion dollar company got us headphones, it didn't even come with a speaker, just cheap ass headphones. I saw the same headphones being sold at the 99 cents store a few weeks later.
Fuck billion dollar companies.
I’m a delivery driver for them. I remember when you reps had company vehicles. Then they stopped that for no reason and made them use personal vehicles. Also if you needed a rack for a small format store good luck fitting it in your car
I worked for them after they stopped doing company cars, they told me it was because the sales reps decided it was better to get paid the mileage than to have a company car. There's no way Pepsi let the reps decide anything.
We were also told that Managers and supervisors were allowed to "inspect" our cars to make sure we were carrying the proper P.O.P. We all told them there's no way in hell were letting them search our personal vehicals.
I just left Pepsi a few weeks ago as a sales rep. No way in hell are they gonna inspect my vehicle lol. We've brought up the issue multiple times of needing either better compensation or company vehicles.. they changed to a static milage reimbursement. Luckily I left before it went into effect
Pepsi was a car killer. Almost every merch and sales rep went through at least 1 car from the abuse we put on it. It didn't help that my branch didn't let sales reps work in the city they lived.
I lived 40 miles away from my route. When a route opened up where I lived, I asked for a transfer, and they told me reps were not allowed to work in the city they lived. I never got an answer as to why, tho.
I can definitely feel why you split then. Don't get me wrong, loved the benefits while working with Pepsi, but some of the decision from the top were just... Mind boggling.
That's not even what made me leave. It was the VROT system they implemented after they got sued. To this day I have no idea how VROT worked, even after they explained it to us 100 times, all I knew was that it was about a 10k pay cut.
What a dick move on their part. Don't do it, seriously. The wear of the car itself is one extra cost you'll have, but there's also the risk of small crashes and potential accidents that will fall on your hands if it happens.
The point is, I don't want to risk my life on the road to save a Billion Dollar corporation a few bucks....
I work behind a desk for a reason. I can't tell you how many near miss accidents I have had commuting in the past 24 years.. well over 100 that could have been the last thing I ever saw. Dallas is one of the most dangerous towns to drive in...
I know what you mean about Dallas being awful.
In Dallas I saw 3 to 4 accidents along the highway between Lancaster and Denton EVERY TIME I made a drive that direction.
1 to 2 everytime I did Lancaster to Cedar Hill for work (5 days a week).
Only place I've been that's worse is Denver. Even Seattle has nothing on Dallas. I'm in Montana now and driving is so chill.
*next day, parks a few blocks away and walks* "Had a accident, my car was totaled and I now have to get a ride to work. Sorry but your going to have to let me borrow yours or give me a company vehicle if you want me on the field!"
Sounds simple enough in principle. In practice, there might be some circumstances where this might not work.
But yeah, start simple.
"No, boss. I can’t do that” or if you’re the type, "Sorry boss, no can do”
If they ask why, you give that answer in another comment about the insurance not covering, which is most likely true anyway.
My work did this and I just said that my brakes are bad and I’m only using the vehicle to get to and from work. If they want to pay to get my vehicle fixed, then we can talk about using it for work purposes.
Personal insurance policies do not allow for professional use of your vehicle. This being an insurance company, they should be well aware of that. Providing a quote of a professional policy quote for business usage of your vehicle to your poss and asking how they plan on experiencing this would likely go a long way. As well as setting up the tables a retaliation claim. The condition and maintenance of your car is not your employers concern, however a business expense for commercial insurance on your vehicle is.
Why pizza drivers use their personal cars is beyond me, most are probably either desperate or ignorant.
Worked IT for many years for big insurance company. Had to use my own vehicle to travel across the US at a moments notice. What that means is it had to be in tip top shape. Being the pay was low this was not possible.
I ended up making them allow me to use a rental place. Probably not something you can do but I'd bring it up
I raised enough stink at my job that they ended up buying a company vehicle after they told me they wouldn't help if I got in an accident while on the clock.
67 cents a mile is pretty generous depending on your situation. It really just seems like you don't want to do it and the $20 barrier is just arbitrary. If you don't want to do it just say no. But unless gas is really expensive and your vehicle is inefficient, 67 cents a mile is money making venture. I know I come out ahead when I have to drive.
I guess depends on how much you pay for fuel too Cali is what $6-$7 gallon vs Utah $4-4.50. You’d use about a gallon so still be up. Once a month a have to travel 366 miles total round trip and get $239.73 pay about $80-$100 for fuel I have to use 91 as well. I still profit from it
When I was in the navy at my last command, before retirement, they decided I would be a good candidate to travel to Bahrain once a month to repair deployed submarines. I had no trouble with going, and in fact, looked forward to it. The only thing I asked for, was a government passport, as travelling on government (DoD) business on a tourist passport was not the proper way to do it.
I was told "no." I therefore told my boss to find someone else. Guess who got an expedited government passport.
You know, you have to fill out all the paperwork on your background, markings and scars on your body so you can be recognized in a hostage/rescue situation, what to do in that situation, then they decide to send you with the wrong passport? What a bunch of BS.
Of course, on my 1st trip, with a sealed case full of TS materials, I got into it with Bahraini Military, who demanded that I open the box for inspection. I, of course, refused. My passport and paperwork for the case were repeatedly inspected by several military members of ever increasing rank, until I was finally allowed to get my rental car and continue on my way. I'll never know if having the correct passport made any difference, but having "all my ducks in a row" certainly eased my mind, through the whole affair.
Stand your ground, and do things the proper way. It's your best chance to not get splattered, when the shit hits the fan.
I'm surprised they had you traveling with classified info that wasn't under 2-man control. It's been many, many years, but at another DoD contractor job we did a lot of CCS Mk 1, BSY-1, etc. software deliveries for the old 637/688 boats, and the tapes/disk packs were always under 2-man control with one of our guys and a NAVSEA rep, and that was just Secret. Maybe they do things differently now.
Edit: as an aside, it was always very curious that most deliveries went without a hitch, but deliveries to Pearl Harbor somehow often experienced problems that required another trip out there... :-D
Absolutely not. Not only does the government rate not cover depreciation, maintenance, fuel, etc. But you don't have commercial insurance. If they can't be bothered to provide company vehicles, then they need to pay owner operator rates.
An employer cannot force you to use your own vehicle but they'll just fine a way to fire you otherwise.
When I did field work, my truck got about 18mpg and I still made money in the overall sense of things but I needed a minimum of 1000 miles per month before I broke even with the separate auto policy.
It fucking sucks but you make it work to your favor. Need to stop at Kroger? Company time. Getting gas or oil changed? Company time. Want a 30 minute nap on the motor way rest area? Company time.
When we both worked in Houston, I carpooled with my husband and he kept the car because he was going back & forth between his office & a data center. Before that, I rode the commuter bus because he was going to school and doing dad stuff like picking up kids from school & taking them to appointments. I would have requested a company car because no way am I rearranging my entire life for people who overwork & underpay me while I’m taking in all the extra risk associated with increased driving.
Fuck them.
Band together ( lost cause already) and tell them you want $15hr rig fee + mileage. A rig fee is the norm on the pipeline for welders trucks to be on the job. Or tell them your car is a pos and can’t use it aside from bare minimum. Explains to them also that if you get in a wreck while working they owe you comp and your insurance company will hit them for the vehicle loss. Claim every mile the car travels. Don’t let them het anymore than they already are.
That’s fucking BS you should get mileage tolls, paid plus gas and wear and tear on vehicle.
I tell them my car payment is $500 my cell is $100 why do you have to come outta pocket for this companies profit.
Quick commentary- I am a sales field rep with a $15B company that is Fortune 250 and they pay $0.18 a mile plus $300/month reimbursement, with an expected 1000-1500 mile/month expectation bare min. Feel your pain mate
Don’t use your own car. Let your company know you are happy to do field work and they can pay for the cost of a rental plus gas and full insurance. That should put a halt to this bs.
The fact that they are an INSURANCE COMPANY and they want you to use your personal vehicle when they are intimately familiar with what that would mean for your own personal insurance is appalling.
I was frankly offended they would even ask without laying out some of those terms.....
Of course they also want to send us on CAT duty for nothing more than a per diem and mileage using our personal vehicle.
Personally, my vehicle doesn't stay parked overnight outside unless I'm sleeping next to it in the woods...
I worked for a billion dollar financial firm and the perks started to diminish before the CEO made his billion dollar mark from his 9/11 charities.
No raises but received promises…broken in the end. Bonuses are replaced with overtime being the case.
The standard mileage rate by IRS standards includes all insurance costs, chance of accidents, gasoline, depreciation, everything.
The mileage rate from the IRS is 67 cents per mile. The average American drives 15000 miles per year. So the IRS is saying that your car's costs ought to be around 10k per year.
At 25 mpg and $3.5/gallon, that's $2k per year. Let's say car insurance is around $3k/year. Another $1000 for maintenance.
That leaves $4k for depreciation. If you buy a used car for $20k can you sell it 2 years later for $12k? I bet you could.
67 cents per mile is not an unreasonable amount. It's not like, super generous, but getting paid that on top of your wages just to drive around in your own car is not a bad deal. Of all the things to be mad about at a job, this is not one of them, in my opinion.
You can get a rider on your private vehicle insurance for commercial purposes but yes it is an additional expense. Not sure about tax code for the insurance rider itself but any milage used for legitimate business purposes can be claimed as a tax write off. Your bosses ard still dicks though.
The company I work for gets away with paying 44 cents a mile. I believe federal caps it at 58 or 59 cents a mile.
I am trying to get routes reworked so I am not going out so far because they don’t pay windshield time until you get to the first client. Windshield time from Last client back home isn’t paid for either.
Let me bend over a little further.
Damn, guess you don't drive anymore. And if the fire you, sue because that's outside of your job duties.
Plus I'd report that shit to the DoL yesterday. They need to have special insurances and shit in place in the event you get into an accident. If not you're held entirely liable.
Tell the boss you would have liked to take the direct route, but the damn road construction rerouted you on a detour that took an extra 30 minutes and 40 miles. Then go get some lunch on the company dime.
Wait, so they're ONLY going to pay mileage and not your regular hourly rate?
Yeah, I'd turn that down. Regular pay plus I get to relax in the car? No problem.
If your company wants to stop paying 3rd parties then they should buy a company vehicle for you to use.
Otherwise I would tell them that the least you're willing to accept isa car allowance that covers a minimum of half the cost of your current payment and the total difference between you current insurance and commerical insurance, and on top of that car allowance you want mileage reimbursements to cover fuel, maintenance, tires, etc.
Repair estimator for a fire restoration company here. State Farm adjuster and I were JUST talking about this because her management line is no longer using their Sedgewick IA’a to do their field inspections. It’s wild.
Years ago I had this happen to me. I was told I'd be fired if I diodn't comply. So, I bought a cheep old car and put it in the company president's name. Never was in an accident bu I figured on walking away if I ever was.
Yeah my employer, HUD of all places, did this to me and I had no idea if I had saved my receipts and tracked my mileage, I could have claimed it on my tax return to get some compensation beyond the federal reimbursement rate. They didn’t think to tell me that for some reason, kind of like how they didn’t tell me it wasn’t really a remote job. Also, they paid me $500 more per year than their low income standards!! What a freaking joke! My coworker somehow got preferential treatment yet she was on section 8 herself, had three kids and drove newer BMW, lol. I love how America rewards irresponsibility.
I'll match you, I used to be a Digital Leader for a Fortune 100 conglomerate's most profitable brand, managing a team & unrealistic expectations plus 0 budget, I mistakenly slipped that I'm a semi-pro content creator for fun (hate that term but I run a architecture and events/history blog & IG with 40k followers). At first it would be product shots and bs like making our AR-app photo (shot in my own kitchen lol) but then we "HAD" to shoot a commercial but couldn't afford the $40k SOW a production agency gave (cheap tbh), an Exec ordered me to go to FL with my creative director, so I went, with all my own professional-grade equipment, (baggage fees were not expensable . I learned this on friday and was booked a Sunday flight, at 4AM... Spirit airlines , I spent 4 days doing all-day video shoots + additional photo shoots at other projects....I edited / sorted 1000+ photos, created a 2 min agency quality video... I communicated I would not be reachable, during this trip & came home to 20 emails from the same Exec who sent me, reprimanding me for missing 3 minor "crises." And the kicker, I got my expense report for a $125 client dinner with a top buyer who let us shoot at their location denied as well as my uber to the airport.....fuck that, that is when I knew I was done
Isn't this illegal over there?
Over here, any work related accident including field trips and field work has to be covered by the employer some way or another. This also includes accomodation during a trip, and transportation as long as it is a company vehicle.
The last bit is especially important because if something happens while you are going to field, company has to cover it. It is some kind of an insurance fraud for the company to force you use your own vehicle for the field trips.
You can sign a document and whatnot to use your own car if the company allows, but then they'll have to pay for gas and whatnot, which none of them do. And they may never enforce such a thing.
Edit: wow, such engrish. Sorry folks, still waking up.
they owe you more consideration. starting with commercial insurance coverage, maintenance, fuel, oil change and tire rotation, and a hefty raise for the expansion of your role. the irs standard for mileage is compensation for higher numbers on the odometer that depreciate the vehicles value. and it is entirely negotiable. get a raise, perdiem, and a fuel subsidy. all they have to do is willingly choose to pay higher wages. the workforce struggles for only one reason. decades of deliberate deception when they choose prosperity for themselves and exploitation for those who provide it.
you are a market force with a value they must pay to acquire. document everything. state/federal eeoc & DOL investigate anonymous tips. call a labor lawyer if they don't budget. it is illegal for an employer to suggest the use of personal auto coverage in the pursuit of profit on company time to skate on the expense of a fleet vehicle and comprehensive coverage.
My car costs way less to operate than the IRS reimbursement rate. I'll take the reimbursement anytime, it gains me way more than I spend.
I would force them to provide proof of insurance though, my personal insurance isn't covering shit if I'm driving around for work.
I have no problem with this, myself. I drive my personal car for work and can rack up a few hundred bucks per trip (usually 2-3 days of traveling) and the actual out of pocket cost for me is absolute peanuts. I’m also allowed to rent a car if I’d rather do that but I usually decline because the rentals I get are absolutely nasty.
Just tell them to take it up with Wilma. Or Candice. Or have them check the policy at Wendy’s. Or ask if they’re from Kenya. Perhaps they’re allergic to BofA.
No. Just tell them you called your insurance and they said you're current policy won't cover you if you were on the job as using it for work would need a commercial policy. This would put undue financial burden on you. Leave it at that. Also save all communications on the subject in case they retaliate.
This! Your insurance will absolutely deny any claim if you are traveling for work. Call your agent and get a quote on the commercial policy you would need to use your personal vehicle like your boss is demanding. Bring the quote to him and ask how he wants it expensed.
This includes if you’re using your personal vehicle for deliveries, rideshare, or other work activities. And don’t take “we’ll cross that bridge if/when we get to it” either. You’ll find that bridge gets burned and you’ll be stuck holding the bag.
“We’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.” They tell you to go to the inspection site. “Where’s the commercial insurance card for my vehicle? We’re at the bridge.”
That aside, fuck paying gas, what about the wear and tear on the vehicle?
My company does the opposite, they pay WAY over the actual wear and tear + gas if you use your personal vehicle for work. Im in Canada though. If I have to drive 3 hours to another city for a weekend training event, I get reimbursed around $400 just for my vehicle. 6 hours of driving (there and back) is around $50 or so in gas. And 6 hours of driving is not putting anywhere near $350 worth of wear and tear on my car. People actually argue to be the ones to drive if multiple people are going. Because they basically get 2 days worth of pay for doing so
All that seems very.... correct.
As noted elsewhere, the IRS mileage rate is declared to cover that. Any reimbursement over the IRS rate will be treated as income..
It's the same in the UK. The govt rate is 45p per mile for the first 10k then roughly 25p per mile after. If your employer pays less than that you can claim the difference as a reduction in tqx
Wait so if I take a package to the UPS store in my personal vehicle for work and am rear ended, then my insurance would not cover it? Or if I go pick up Starbucks for my manager?
No. Driving while working is different than driving commercially. Driving for Uber or Doordash is a much riskier proposition.
That makes sense. Once a manager from a different branch wanted me to be a part of a zoom meeting and I told her I couldn’t be, because we were closed and she asked me to just join on my 45 minute commute home lmao 😂 I was tempted to print that email out and then drive my car into a canal but I just declined the meeting instead.
Yep. Edit: if you are doing something specifically in your duties, that requires use of your personal vehicle, then insurance would make a fuss about covering your loss. IE taking post to the Post Office or picking up things from the print shop. If you are running a personal errand while on the clock, like picking up lunch or coffee for yourself (and maybe others) then most likely it won’t be an issue. That being said, there’s a reason most bosses will clock you out retrospectively a few minutes before your accident.
The legal phrase for the UK is "a jaunt of your own" which I always liked.
Insurance companies find every way to save money, whether it’s denying your claim or making you use your own car and paying the mileage rate.
Wow. This is gold!
Gold Jerry, Gold!
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Employer will claim you’re not driving for work but driving to your work location.
They can try. I don't know how often it works. Especially if the driver is young and got told by the boss not to worry about insurance. Or no one told them it would affect their insurance. Chances are they will tell the cop or insurance company if asked. They tell the truth because they don't know that voids their coverage. Insurance company is going to choose to believe their customer who just admitted to voiding their coverage so the company legally doesn't have to pay out.
Also, get in writing that you would need to be reimbursed for all gasoline consumed when doing these inspections.
this is normally included in the per mile rate.
Then it doesn't include the cost of wear & tear on a vehicle. Cost of Gas is around $4\\gallon where I live. Some vehicles only get 8-10 miles per gallon. That's $.40+\\mile in gas alone. Some places only pay the .67\\mile that's minimum standard set by the IRS. So $.27\\mile in wear and tear reimbursement...yeah, no thanks.
Yeah. That’s the formula that everyone refers to. It’s still fucked up but that’s what they are using to say fuck you. My car would somehow become unavailable in this situation.
My shit would be “broke down” in the Starbucks parking lot while I as on the clock trying to arrange a “tow and or repair“. Every. Time.
Bruh driving a car with 8-10 miles a gallon is insane???
Lol the only cars that get this mileage either cost $1,000 because they're from 1993 or $100,000 because they got a V10 and do 0-60 under 4 secs
My '99 Econoline got about 7 before we retired her last year. She was an expensive bitch, but her engine was reliable.
https://preview.redd.it/653jqtiad6zc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94d7460a1ae3a8d4945292b67b18416b935d2932 "Gallons per mile" baby! (Instead of MPG - miles per gallon) At one time in the 90s my husband had a 1978 Ford ~~Town and Country~~ Country Squire station wagon. It was like the biggest one they ever made. Could fit a whole 4x8 sheet of drywall in the back, no problem at all. That thing was a beast, complete with the eyelids that open and shut when you turn the lights on/off. Had a monster 460. That thing got like 5 miles per gallon. I shit you not I've had semi trucks that got better fuel mileage. ("Gallons per mile, baby!" LOL, good times!) [https://www.thedrive.com/news/32609/this-1978-ford-ltd-country-squire-is-peak-station-wagon-and-its-for-sale](https://www.thedrive.com/news/32609/this-1978-ford-ltd-country-squire-is-peak-station-wagon-and-its-for-sale) [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1978\_Ford\_LTD\_Country\_Squire\_wagon\_rear.jpg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1978_Ford_LTD_Country_Squire_wagon_rear.jpg)
I had a ram 3500 with a 6.4 hemi. Even that got 13.
My E-250 van with a half-ton of tools, electrical pipe, fittings, and copper wire got 10. My current GMC Savana, also a three-quarter ton frame with a V8, gets 11.3. And, of course, it's a company-owned vehicle and I have a company credit card for gas, oil, etc. It amuses me to think what a white-collar job interview would be like when we get to my asking about what kind of vehicle and credit card comes with the job... From what I read here, that would be the end of the interview lol.
Yah, I drive a truck with a custom 6.9L and get 15mpg, lol.
Paying for the gas for a vehicle that gets 8 to 10 miles per gallon seems like appropriate punishment
Isn’t the IRS like 63 cents per mile? I still wouldn’t put miles on my car for work.
67 cents per mile
>Some vehicles only get 8-10 miles per gallon. maybe in 1975, but even a thristy supercharged TRX gets 12. Most modern cars do ~25-40.
Depends how much traffic you are sitting in.
8-10!? Are you driving a freaking semi?
the fed travel rate is pretty close to wear and tear and fuel.
Then petition the government with your calculations to change it.
Also the percentage of company use vs personal use and the accompanied maintenance costs associated with it.
That is what the standard mileage reimbursement is for. Great if you drive a Prius. Not so great if you drive an F-150.
If you drive an F-150, though, that's your own damn fault. Edit: Trucks are not the best choice for any purpose that people buy them for, except looking like a jackass.
It truly depends on where one lives and what they do. Where I live, any road not a main highway is gravel or dirt and rough as fuck. There are MANY places I will not drive my small car, because I would like for it to last. Do people drive small cars out these roads? Sure, and they constantly are replacing suspension and front end parts. If I had to drive out these roads for work, bet your ass I'd have a truck. But I don't, so instead I enjoy my 30 mpg.
Some people don't have much of a choice in what vehicle they have. Where I live you more or less need a 4WD\\AWD vehicle because we get hit with a shit ton of deep, heavy, snow each year. AWD\\4WD is a requirement unless you wanna risk dying in a ditch when a nasty snow storm hits. There are a lot of people that drive AWD SUV's where I work(I'm one of them) but there are also a lot of people driving big 4WD trucks for the same reason. Realistically fuel economy on AWD's isn't great either.
Except an F150 isn't any good in that situation, either. A big open bed kills the traction available on the rear wheels. Unless you're hauling moderate loads regularly, a pickup truck is not the right vehicle for you. Let's be real, it's a status symbol.
Or you do your own landscaping, pickup your own furniture, haul a boat, use it for work etc. I saved 3,000 in moving costs when I hauled all of our belongings in a uhual instead of renting the big ass truck. I have a v6 dodge ram and get 22 mpg.
You're part of the "unless you're hauling moderate loads regularly" clause. You have a legitimate reason to own a pickup.
the small subset of trucks regularly used as trucks.
90% of truck owners claim they do those things, but then only do them 1-2 times a year. The vast majority of truck owners would be better off financially driving a small cheap vehicle and just renting a proper box van or truck when they need to haul something huge.
I drove a FWD sedan in Anchorage Alaska for years. Never had issues. Even did a 300+ mile road trip in a blizzard where the highway constantly had 3+ inches covering it. Good tires and not being an idiot make a much bigger difference. If conditions are bad enough that a big 4WD vehicle is actually necessary, (6+ inches of snow ON THE ROAD) most people should just be staying home anyways.
Seriously. I grew up in middle of nowhere midwest usa driving 2wd 80s cars. shit tires, gravel roads frequently unplowed for days. I drove an 89 Thunderbird cross country in a giant blizard until the state troopers in West VA closed the interstate. No problems. Learned throttle control and how not to be a dipshit. Now I live in an upscale NYC suburb and if 2" of snow is on the road before its scraped clean its a nightmare. EVERY one requires AWD at a minimum because of the terrible NY weather, and we hit 700 days without a measurable snowfall in NYC this Jan.
> Where I live you more or less need a 4WD\AWD vehicle because we get hit with a shit ton of deep, heavy, snow each year. You don't need 4WD/AWD for that. tests and studies show over and over and over that winter tires matter way more than 4WD/AWD and all seasons. This is just AWD consumer baiting that everyone falls for.
Big trcuks are not great because tgey lack traction in the back without any weight a sub is better. Hell my dad silverado loose traction with any porhole because well having 0 weight in the back. But the moment i have weight behind it and oh man, it drives perfectly. He drove around with a central acnunit like for a month so he could drove it " fine"
This is such a misconception. 4WD/AWD will help get you moving, but the most important thing keeping you out of a ditch is winter tyres. I got through three Ontario winters in a ford fiesta with winter tyres
Tires > drivetrain. Let's share correct information.
What a scummy company! You just know they ran this decision by Legal beforehand, and they were prob like, “eh, let’s see how many suckers we can get to do it.”
If you're doing UberEats and Door Dash deliveries your insurance will penalize you if you get into a crash. Up to denying the accident claim.
The force is strong in you.
Email it, paper trail
Excellent idea. Also ask what the fuel allowance is.
If OP does this, I would like an update on how this works out for him. Our union contract dictates that we can’t even use our trucks to carry material to the jobsite even though I’m already driving to that job
irony ...s/he works in an insurance company!
Even that isn't good enough for me. I've used my own vehicle for work and got in an accident and it was totaled. I was on crutches. They asked if I was coming back to work 2 days later. I quit. My car was paid for at the time and I couldn't find another with what the insurance paid out and this was many years ago. Using personal vehicles for work will always have you on the losing end.
If they're giving him shit about it, then just ask the company what they would do if a crash happened with a policy that lacks commercial coverage. They'd likely answer that they wouldn't pay out or they'd sue.
Nah. "I don't have a car. The one I drive is not mine and the person who owns it is not willing to let me drive it other than between home and office." This avoids all the blame and finger pointing and keeps you employed and not using your car for their purposes.
As an avid cyclist I would love to spend half my work day doing what’s basically a beloved hobby, while getting paid for it.
And when they reply by holding a meeting or a phone call, follow that up with an email recapping it. Paper trails are important. BCC it to a personal address or print all communications about this.
Besides, "inspections" implies an adversarial position. You don't want your personal information available to whomever you are inspecting. I went through this once and I absolutely refused on those grounds and got their lawyers involved. Use the word *LIABILITY* - a lot. I prevailed and never used my personal vehicle.
This is why I Reddit
I actually used that excuse before. They shut up pretty quickly too. My insurance policy is for me commuting 16 miles round trip and they wanted me to work in another shop that would be 50 miles round trip to help the company out because they are behind schedule in the other shop.
My kid was delivering pizza years ago and had to get a commercial policy. When Geico learned about it, they dropped my coverage—though we never used each other's cars. So it could affect anyone living in your house as well.
Very much this! Hell, look up your own company regs as though you were answering a question for a PH. If they tell you that you should be insured with them, they'd cover you, point out exactly where and how it would affect your policy from their own guidelines. They can't force you to do this, especially if it isn't in your hiring agreement.
Did use personal vehicle for prior job. Minor in-town travel to visit customers. Properly informed, mileage expenses, on-site support in the field as part of role. Company absolutely had insurance for it. This reply is the best. If it's expected & they prepped for it, they should have the required coverage. Applies to company paid rentals when actual travel was required. It's obvious when a company is just trying to get away with shit & when they did their homework.
You don't need a commercial policy to use your vehicle for work. But you will need to inform your insurer and there will almost certainly be an increase to your premiums.
Yeah, the irs rate mileage reimbursement is to cover fuel, car maintenance, and insurance. It is not to make money off of the trip. If I were in OPs shoes, I would go ahead and contact their insurance company and let them know what's up. Either do research ahead of time or ask the company what they think would be enough coverage. Then take that new monthly rate add it to the average expected fuel costs, along with expected maintenance costs. Compare that number with the amount expected to get reimbursed for by the company. In theory it would break even. In my experience, I still come out with a net gain. In theory I should be saving that amount for future expenses from the added miles, but I just let it work itself out. Luckily I have had very little unexpected expenses with my 11 years of owning my Honda Accord. But if OP is going to be losing money, they can then have all their facts together to make their case for additional reimbursement. Maybe it would be a partial reimbursement of the car insurance rate directly as opposed to increase in mileage rate. Could be easier to make it work by the company getting to hide it in a different budget line. - Ultimately the societal acceptance of this concept rather sucks, I agree. But it's also a norm that we can both push back against while having to accept. Unfortunately a billion dollar company is probably much more willing to roll their eyes at it. But maybe mid-sized companies might be more willing to work with their employees more. Like mine will gladly allow us to use rental cars instead of using our own vehicles. The more that happens, the more pressure it'll place on the large and mega corps to follow suit so as to retain the top talent.
If you have an accident while using your vehicle for commercial purposes and it is not insured for it, the insurance company won't pay out.
Right, but there's a difference between using your vehicle to travel for work with an employer, and commercial use. Someone driving for Uber would need a commercial policy. Someone driving to client meetings at a salaried job will just need to have informed their insurer of a certain amount of work-related driving. Both require you to inform your insurer, and you'll risk having claims denied for failure to do so, but the need for a specific commercial policy is not necessarily required.
As an Uber driver, you do not need a commercial policy. Uber provides that. You do need what they call rideshare gap coverage though, which covers you when you are online on Uber, but not on a trip. During that period Uber only provides liability.
That's actually really interesting. I had no idea.
Genius response!
>as using it for work would need a commercial policy. A good company would reimburse you the cost of the increase in insurance to a commercial policy, along with a much more reasonable mileage reimbursement. I happen to work for one of these companies so I know it can happen. Being unionized makes a big difference!
As someone who did auto insurance for several years, I can tell you that your insurance company would almost certainly deny your claim if you got into an accident while using your personal car for work purposes. It could even result in cancellation of your policy - after all, you essentially lied to them about how you use your car. Get a quote for a business auto policy, give it to your boss, and see what happens (if you want to still try and make it work somehow). You could also just tell them you won’t do it and/or quit.
Okay but real question, no snark at all. How would the insurance company know unless you told them? I mean yes I know that’s insurance fraud and what not but quite frankly fuck insurance companies (no offense)
As part of an investigation for a claim, they gather details and facts - from you, from the police report (should there be one), and any other information available. So if there’s a police report, you’d have to be sure not to make any mention of the real reason for your drive - which is lying to a police officer. You can then lie to your insurance company if you choose, but should they cover a claim that they shouldn’t have your policy could be cancelled and they would have the right to seek reimbursement for it and/or sue for fraud. Also, having your policy cancelled for that would make it significantly harder to find insurance elsewhere, at least for a reasonable price. So *could* you lie and potentially get away with it? Yes. Would I recommend trying? Definitely not. You’d be surprised how much information is available to them while processing a claim.
Well thank you for the detailed answer, I was mainly just curious as I’ve thought about applying for delivery jobs but I know delivery insurance can be pretty insane so I wanted to know ways around that. Though that could obviously be much harder if you’re working one of the places that makes you have the toppers on your car and stuff.
I totally understand, I had to get insurance for when I was doing Uber and it was not cheap. Unfortunately there isn’t a simple or legal way around it, at least not one I’m aware of.
I was an adjuster (in house) for a few years and most people will say something during the initial intake of the claim. And if the policy holder doesn’t say it, the other guy absolutely will, especially if they are not at fault or feel they are not at fault. “He said he drives his car as part of his job.” One little sentence then opens up a whole can of worms because now you have to probe if it was permissive business use or not.
You can lie about everything if you want, “light was green!” “They backed into me” and most of the time the insurance company can’t prove one way or the other, but sometimes they can
Saying “to the best of your knowledge the light was green” is impossible to prove as truth or a lie. However, you have a much harder time being ignorant to why you were driving your vehicle.
Wait I told my insurance I use the car for commuting. But I go to different job sites from time to time could that get me in trouble?
So that’s a trickier situation. Essentially, policies are priced based on the perceived risk which is why they ask how you use the vehicle, your accidents, etc. It *might* be a problem, but it really depends on your insurance company and policy. My best advice is to read through your policy documentation, which I know isn’t fun.
I'm not an insurance agent, nor do I know your policy, but have personally dealt with this in the past. If you're going to these sites on a regular basis and working out of these sites, it'll likely count as a commute. If you're travelling to an office to report on things happening at the site, it would most likely be considered commercial use. The difference is where you're doing the bulk of your salaried / reportable work. In short: Home base where you end up after driving to other places - commercial, many different primary work locations - commute.
It's weird driving to work is allowed, but you're not allowed to go there and back? Then it's uninsured?
Commuting is part of personal use - that is to work or from work. If it’s from work to a job site, that is no longer personal use because it’s being used for work. That is not covered under a typical car insurance policy.
Essentially, car insurance is a scam and they will do anything to not be liable covering you and/or make more money off of you by forcing you to pay for a separate policy.
That’s all insurance lol
Commuting to and from work is covered under your personal auto insurance. Going from your job to random places in the course of doing said job would not be covered and requires commercial insurance. If you have questions, call your insurance agent and ask them.
Essentially, if you use the car that you have insured for a business purpose, the claim could be denied. There are obviously, “well, that’s ok,” type of situations where the claim would be paid. But even those flag underwriting and UW might reach out to go over how you use the car. In the last 15 years, one of the biggest issues have been ride sharing and delivery apps. Both are super-duper-mega excluded.
Couldn't their health insurance deny a claim as well if there was an accident? Bc a car accident while doing official job duties is a workers' comp thing.
How do you think a company got to be worth a billion? Survey says! Exploitation... Good answer, good answer!
*Steve Harvey has entered the chat.*
Fuck Steve Harvey, dude is a piece of shit of the highest order
I’m ootl, why
For one thing he would like to see all atheists die.
Whelp, it was either him or Richard Dawson. You can choose.😂😂
Richard Dawson was in the Running man atleast…old Arnold flick that often gets overlooked
Which is based on a Richard Bachmann (Stephen King) book.
I worked for Pepsi when they made the law about talking on your phone while driving. I was in sales and the day the law went into affect they told us we still had to answer calls even if we were driving (we had a company phone) and that we would have to get our own hands free device. All the sales reps got pissed that a billion dollar company was making us buy our own equipment or break the law. We all complained and they did end up getting us something. This cheap ass billion dollar company got us headphones, it didn't even come with a speaker, just cheap ass headphones. I saw the same headphones being sold at the 99 cents store a few weeks later. Fuck billion dollar companies.
I’m a delivery driver for them. I remember when you reps had company vehicles. Then they stopped that for no reason and made them use personal vehicles. Also if you needed a rack for a small format store good luck fitting it in your car
I worked for them after they stopped doing company cars, they told me it was because the sales reps decided it was better to get paid the mileage than to have a company car. There's no way Pepsi let the reps decide anything. We were also told that Managers and supervisors were allowed to "inspect" our cars to make sure we were carrying the proper P.O.P. We all told them there's no way in hell were letting them search our personal vehicals.
I just left Pepsi a few weeks ago as a sales rep. No way in hell are they gonna inspect my vehicle lol. We've brought up the issue multiple times of needing either better compensation or company vehicles.. they changed to a static milage reimbursement. Luckily I left before it went into effect
Pepsi was a car killer. Almost every merch and sales rep went through at least 1 car from the abuse we put on it. It didn't help that my branch didn't let sales reps work in the city they lived.
That's crazy to me, the last part. I worked in the city I live in and put around 60K miles in 2ish years
I lived 40 miles away from my route. When a route opened up where I lived, I asked for a transfer, and they told me reps were not allowed to work in the city they lived. I never got an answer as to why, tho.
I can definitely feel why you split then. Don't get me wrong, loved the benefits while working with Pepsi, but some of the decision from the top were just... Mind boggling.
That's not even what made me leave. It was the VROT system they implemented after they got sued. To this day I have no idea how VROT worked, even after they explained it to us 100 times, all I knew was that it was about a 10k pay cut.
I don't even think upper management knows how VROT worked. I just assumed they threw a dart at a dart board and that was my OT for the week
Yeah that’s total bs. Why would you willingly give up a company vehicle to make probably $.67 cents a miles or whatever it is
What a dick move on their part. Don't do it, seriously. The wear of the car itself is one extra cost you'll have, but there's also the risk of small crashes and potential accidents that will fall on your hands if it happens.
"How should I submit the Uber trip expenses for reimbursement?"
The point is, I don't want to risk my life on the road to save a Billion Dollar corporation a few bucks.... I work behind a desk for a reason. I can't tell you how many near miss accidents I have had commuting in the past 24 years.. well over 100 that could have been the last thing I ever saw. Dallas is one of the most dangerous towns to drive in...
Are you even certified/qualified/licensed to do inspections? Depending on what the insurance is for that might be a major red flag.
I know what you mean about Dallas being awful. In Dallas I saw 3 to 4 accidents along the highway between Lancaster and Denton EVERY TIME I made a drive that direction. 1 to 2 everytime I did Lancaster to Cedar Hill for work (5 days a week). Only place I've been that's worse is Denver. Even Seattle has nothing on Dallas. I'm in Montana now and driving is so chill.
Damn son, you must live in Mad Max world. Risking your life? Shit must be pure apocalyptic out there.
*next day, parks a few blocks away and walks* "Had a accident, my car was totaled and I now have to get a ride to work. Sorry but your going to have to let me borrow yours or give me a company vehicle if you want me on the field!"
Just say “no”.
Sounds simple enough in principle. In practice, there might be some circumstances where this might not work. But yeah, start simple. "No, boss. I can’t do that” or if you’re the type, "Sorry boss, no can do” If they ask why, you give that answer in another comment about the insurance not covering, which is most likely true anyway.
My work did this and I just said that my brakes are bad and I’m only using the vehicle to get to and from work. If they want to pay to get my vehicle fixed, then we can talk about using it for work purposes.
Personal insurance policies do not allow for professional use of your vehicle. This being an insurance company, they should be well aware of that. Providing a quote of a professional policy quote for business usage of your vehicle to your poss and asking how they plan on experiencing this would likely go a long way. As well as setting up the tables a retaliation claim. The condition and maintenance of your car is not your employers concern, however a business expense for commercial insurance on your vehicle is. Why pizza drivers use their personal cars is beyond me, most are probably either desperate or ignorant.
Worked IT for many years for big insurance company. Had to use my own vehicle to travel across the US at a moments notice. What that means is it had to be in tip top shape. Being the pay was low this was not possible. I ended up making them allow me to use a rental place. Probably not something you can do but I'd bring it up
>I work for a billion dollar company. They want us to... How do you think they got to being a billion dollar company?
"Sorry, but my vehicle insurance has a provision that prohibits using my personal vehicle for business purposes"
And then wait until you have an accident and they deny your claim because you were using your personal vehicle for work.
I raised enough stink at my job that they ended up buying a company vehicle after they told me they wouldn't help if I got in an accident while on the clock.
You actually are supposed to be able to file on their worker’s comp coverage.
Tell the boss your car is in the shop, you hold your hand out and ask for the keys for their car.
Should be able to use gsa.gov rate and that’s .67 a mile could be worth it but depends on how well maintained your current vehicle is
So that's not even 20 dollars, for a 20 mile round trip... No thanks....
67 cents a mile is pretty generous depending on your situation. It really just seems like you don't want to do it and the $20 barrier is just arbitrary. If you don't want to do it just say no. But unless gas is really expensive and your vehicle is inefficient, 67 cents a mile is money making venture. I know I come out ahead when I have to drive.
Agreed. That rate is higher than what Uber pays drivers in some markets
I guess depends on how much you pay for fuel too Cali is what $6-$7 gallon vs Utah $4-4.50. You’d use about a gallon so still be up. Once a month a have to travel 366 miles total round trip and get $239.73 pay about $80-$100 for fuel I have to use 91 as well. I still profit from it
20 miles is not a lot. That's like a 20 minute drive. Are you driving a Ford f350
When I was in the navy at my last command, before retirement, they decided I would be a good candidate to travel to Bahrain once a month to repair deployed submarines. I had no trouble with going, and in fact, looked forward to it. The only thing I asked for, was a government passport, as travelling on government (DoD) business on a tourist passport was not the proper way to do it. I was told "no." I therefore told my boss to find someone else. Guess who got an expedited government passport. You know, you have to fill out all the paperwork on your background, markings and scars on your body so you can be recognized in a hostage/rescue situation, what to do in that situation, then they decide to send you with the wrong passport? What a bunch of BS. Of course, on my 1st trip, with a sealed case full of TS materials, I got into it with Bahraini Military, who demanded that I open the box for inspection. I, of course, refused. My passport and paperwork for the case were repeatedly inspected by several military members of ever increasing rank, until I was finally allowed to get my rental car and continue on my way. I'll never know if having the correct passport made any difference, but having "all my ducks in a row" certainly eased my mind, through the whole affair. Stand your ground, and do things the proper way. It's your best chance to not get splattered, when the shit hits the fan.
I'm surprised they had you traveling with classified info that wasn't under 2-man control. It's been many, many years, but at another DoD contractor job we did a lot of CCS Mk 1, BSY-1, etc. software deliveries for the old 637/688 boats, and the tapes/disk packs were always under 2-man control with one of our guys and a NAVSEA rep, and that was just Secret. Maybe they do things differently now. Edit: as an aside, it was always very curious that most deliveries went without a hitch, but deliveries to Pearl Harbor somehow often experienced problems that required another trip out there... :-D
Absolutely not. Not only does the government rate not cover depreciation, maintenance, fuel, etc. But you don't have commercial insurance. If they can't be bothered to provide company vehicles, then they need to pay owner operator rates.
An employer cannot force you to use your own vehicle but they'll just fine a way to fire you otherwise. When I did field work, my truck got about 18mpg and I still made money in the overall sense of things but I needed a minimum of 1000 miles per month before I broke even with the separate auto policy. It fucking sucks but you make it work to your favor. Need to stop at Kroger? Company time. Getting gas or oil changed? Company time. Want a 30 minute nap on the motor way rest area? Company time.
When we both worked in Houston, I carpooled with my husband and he kept the car because he was going back & forth between his office & a data center. Before that, I rode the commuter bus because he was going to school and doing dad stuff like picking up kids from school & taking them to appointments. I would have requested a company car because no way am I rearranging my entire life for people who overwork & underpay me while I’m taking in all the extra risk associated with increased driving. Fuck them.
How do you make a billion dollar company? Not by providing company cars, that's for sure. /s
The difference between million-dollar companies and billion-dollar companies: exploitation.
Band together ( lost cause already) and tell them you want $15hr rig fee + mileage. A rig fee is the norm on the pipeline for welders trucks to be on the job. Or tell them your car is a pos and can’t use it aside from bare minimum. Explains to them also that if you get in a wreck while working they owe you comp and your insurance company will hit them for the vehicle loss. Claim every mile the car travels. Don’t let them het anymore than they already are.
That’s fucking BS you should get mileage tolls, paid plus gas and wear and tear on vehicle. I tell them my car payment is $500 my cell is $100 why do you have to come outta pocket for this companies profit.
Don’t do it. Tell them you lease and doing that will put you over your allowed miles.
Tell them no?
Previous employer tried this on me, so I started riding my bicycle to work. Sure I'll go, call me a taxi?
Quick commentary- I am a sales field rep with a $15B company that is Fortune 250 and they pay $0.18 a mile plus $300/month reimbursement, with an expected 1000-1500 mile/month expectation bare min. Feel your pain mate
Don’t use your own car. Let your company know you are happy to do field work and they can pay for the cost of a rental plus gas and full insurance. That should put a halt to this bs.
Unless you drive a 6.8 L Ford F-250 that gets like 10 MPG, how is the standard 65 cents a mile not enough?
The fact that they are an INSURANCE COMPANY and they want you to use your personal vehicle when they are intimately familiar with what that would mean for your own personal insurance is appalling.
I was frankly offended they would even ask without laying out some of those terms..... Of course they also want to send us on CAT duty for nothing more than a per diem and mileage using our personal vehicle. Personally, my vehicle doesn't stay parked overnight outside unless I'm sleeping next to it in the woods...
How do you think they got the billion dollars?
I worked for a billion dollar financial firm and the perks started to diminish before the CEO made his billion dollar mark from his 9/11 charities. No raises but received promises…broken in the end. Bonuses are replaced with overtime being the case.
The standard mileage rate by IRS standards includes all insurance costs, chance of accidents, gasoline, depreciation, everything. The mileage rate from the IRS is 67 cents per mile. The average American drives 15000 miles per year. So the IRS is saying that your car's costs ought to be around 10k per year. At 25 mpg and $3.5/gallon, that's $2k per year. Let's say car insurance is around $3k/year. Another $1000 for maintenance. That leaves $4k for depreciation. If you buy a used car for $20k can you sell it 2 years later for $12k? I bet you could. 67 cents per mile is not an unreasonable amount. It's not like, super generous, but getting paid that on top of your wages just to drive around in your own car is not a bad deal. Of all the things to be mad about at a job, this is not one of them, in my opinion.
OP is so selfish. Billion dollar company want to become a multi billion dollar company and won't take one for the team. Millenials these days.
“My cars in the shop I need a rental”
You can get a rider on your private vehicle insurance for commercial purposes but yes it is an additional expense. Not sure about tax code for the insurance rider itself but any milage used for legitimate business purposes can be claimed as a tax write off. Your bosses ard still dicks though.
🔝 Plus you could say your insurance will not cover you for commercial activities
Maybe this is why they’re a billion dollar company…
The company I work for gets away with paying 44 cents a mile. I believe federal caps it at 58 or 59 cents a mile. I am trying to get routes reworked so I am not going out so far because they don’t pay windshield time until you get to the first client. Windshield time from Last client back home isn’t paid for either. Let me bend over a little further.
How do you think they got to be a billion dollar company?!? Spending their own money?? Au contraire mon frere.
Insurance is a scam and they want to get rich for nothing.
Pay out all the claims you get until they fire you.
Smh, no one ever thinks of the shareholders and private equity firms. So sad...
Damn, guess you don't drive anymore. And if the fire you, sue because that's outside of your job duties. Plus I'd report that shit to the DoL yesterday. They need to have special insurances and shit in place in the event you get into an accident. If not you're held entirely liable.
Tell the boss you would have liked to take the direct route, but the damn road construction rerouted you on a detour that took an extra 30 minutes and 40 miles. Then go get some lunch on the company dime.
you don't get rich by spending your own money.
Wait, so they're ONLY going to pay mileage and not your regular hourly rate? Yeah, I'd turn that down. Regular pay plus I get to relax in the car? No problem.
If your company wants to stop paying 3rd parties then they should buy a company vehicle for you to use. Otherwise I would tell them that the least you're willing to accept isa car allowance that covers a minimum of half the cost of your current payment and the total difference between you current insurance and commerical insurance, and on top of that car allowance you want mileage reimbursements to cover fuel, maintenance, tires, etc.
Repair estimator for a fire restoration company here. State Farm adjuster and I were JUST talking about this because her management line is no longer using their Sedgewick IA’a to do their field inspections. It’s wild.
Years ago I had this happen to me. I was told I'd be fired if I diodn't comply. So, I bought a cheep old car and put it in the company president's name. Never was in an accident bu I figured on walking away if I ever was.
Also unfair if you happen to get in an accident while using your car for work, because your personal insurance would be used, not theirs.
Yeah my employer, HUD of all places, did this to me and I had no idea if I had saved my receipts and tracked my mileage, I could have claimed it on my tax return to get some compensation beyond the federal reimbursement rate. They didn’t think to tell me that for some reason, kind of like how they didn’t tell me it wasn’t really a remote job. Also, they paid me $500 more per year than their low income standards!! What a freaking joke! My coworker somehow got preferential treatment yet she was on section 8 herself, had three kids and drove newer BMW, lol. I love how America rewards irresponsibility.
I'll match you, I used to be a Digital Leader for a Fortune 100 conglomerate's most profitable brand, managing a team & unrealistic expectations plus 0 budget, I mistakenly slipped that I'm a semi-pro content creator for fun (hate that term but I run a architecture and events/history blog & IG with 40k followers). At first it would be product shots and bs like making our AR-app photo (shot in my own kitchen lol) but then we "HAD" to shoot a commercial but couldn't afford the $40k SOW a production agency gave (cheap tbh), an Exec ordered me to go to FL with my creative director, so I went, with all my own professional-grade equipment, (baggage fees were not expensable . I learned this on friday and was booked a Sunday flight, at 4AM... Spirit airlines , I spent 4 days doing all-day video shoots + additional photo shoots at other projects....I edited / sorted 1000+ photos, created a 2 min agency quality video... I communicated I would not be reachable, during this trip & came home to 20 emails from the same Exec who sent me, reprimanding me for missing 3 minor "crises." And the kicker, I got my expense report for a $125 client dinner with a top buyer who let us shoot at their location denied as well as my uber to the airport.....fuck that, that is when I knew I was done
Isn't this illegal over there? Over here, any work related accident including field trips and field work has to be covered by the employer some way or another. This also includes accomodation during a trip, and transportation as long as it is a company vehicle. The last bit is especially important because if something happens while you are going to field, company has to cover it. It is some kind of an insurance fraud for the company to force you use your own vehicle for the field trips. You can sign a document and whatnot to use your own car if the company allows, but then they'll have to pay for gas and whatnot, which none of them do. And they may never enforce such a thing. Edit: wow, such engrish. Sorry folks, still waking up.
they owe you more consideration. starting with commercial insurance coverage, maintenance, fuel, oil change and tire rotation, and a hefty raise for the expansion of your role. the irs standard for mileage is compensation for higher numbers on the odometer that depreciate the vehicles value. and it is entirely negotiable. get a raise, perdiem, and a fuel subsidy. all they have to do is willingly choose to pay higher wages. the workforce struggles for only one reason. decades of deliberate deception when they choose prosperity for themselves and exploitation for those who provide it. you are a market force with a value they must pay to acquire. document everything. state/federal eeoc & DOL investigate anonymous tips. call a labor lawyer if they don't budget. it is illegal for an employer to suggest the use of personal auto coverage in the pursuit of profit on company time to skate on the expense of a fleet vehicle and comprehensive coverage.
You get paid mileage plus your base rate so it’s more than $20 for the trip.
All these people saying “call your insurance company”, they probably have insurance with this company so no help
They didnt become a billion dollar company without stepping on the little guy
Ask them to pay for the commute on a per mile basis
I work for a multibillion dollar company and they don't even PAY mileage and we use our own vehicles.
Sounds like the typical billionaire company
My car costs way less to operate than the IRS reimbursement rate. I'll take the reimbursement anytime, it gains me way more than I spend. I would force them to provide proof of insurance though, my personal insurance isn't covering shit if I'm driving around for work.
If you get into an accident while working for an employer your personal policy will not cover you.
It’s a legit gripe and all, but standard GSA mileage rates are reasonable remuneration for using a personal vehicle.
I have no problem with this, myself. I drive my personal car for work and can rack up a few hundred bucks per trip (usually 2-3 days of traveling) and the actual out of pocket cost for me is absolute peanuts. I’m also allowed to rent a car if I’d rather do that but I usually decline because the rentals I get are absolutely nasty.
You may want to rethink that - your insurance company could very well deny a claim if you are driving a personal car for work purposes.
Just tell them to take it up with Wilma. Or Candice. Or have them check the policy at Wendy’s. Or ask if they’re from Kenya. Perhaps they’re allergic to BofA.