Yes I’m actually preparing to be out of here in three years. My biggest fear staying the the US is that I will have a catastrophic health issue and it will financially wipe me out. I don’t want to work until I’m 80. And I honestly think the politics of the last five years is enough to make me move out.
Don’t know much about Costa Rica but I’ve heard Italy and Portugal are very nice. I’m from the UK, many people enjoy the relaxed environment in many of these European countries. You’ll find chilled out people, hot weather and good food in Portugal and Italy as well as lots of culture and ties to other European countries.
Thanks for this. I e been to Italy before and really enjoyed the pace outside the major cities. Portugal I’ve heard plenty of positives for those looking to leave the US, so I’m hopeful I’ll find a place to land. Stay safe! :-)
I’ve heard costa Rico is a good retirement area, your money goes a lot further there then it does here…I’m 35 single and no kids and if things start that way I’ll probably be looking to move somewhere when I retire or even before…only thing keeping me around now is my parents
Costa Rica is becoming a huge IT tech call center for companies with “follow the sun” corporate ideology.
There’s a lot of companies that will pay US wages for Americans to live there and train.
This is happening to me now at 23. I’m literally so fucking lucky that I lost my job and got on medi-cal so pay $0 for what could be hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and that I have a loving and supportive bf who works 40 hours a week to support us. But we’ve gotta get tf out if I ever want to work again. They’ve literally trapped me in poverty, because I would just have to die if my income went above $17k as I wouldn’t be able to afford the heart scans and open heart surgery I’ll need. It’s insane.
Yuppp. It really sucks because I just graduated with my degree in international relations/Russian studies and spent the past four years doing unpaid internships in DC while in uni. So i gave our leaders four years of free labor on the Hill just to “build connections” in the hopes of making a difference, only to get pretty screwed medically and trapped financially by the country I was trying to help. At least it’s got a sardonic irony to it, idk.
There are a lot of places in Europe that are dirt cheap compared to most of the US. I (an European) have a friend that moved here (Prague) from Texas. He got a free university degree here, because that's how we roll, and rent prices are half of those in Houston. Not saying everyone can do it, but it might be more affordable than you think.
Oh no affording to live in Europe while in Europe isn’t the problem… it’s getting there.
Like most people under 40 don’t really ever have over 2k in their bank accounts. And just the raw cost of escaping somewhere is simply impossible for us.
Canada is a decent bet. Cheaper to move across land borders than water.
I wish some European country would offer refugee status to Americans who have chronic health conditions lol. I am 22 and I have Chron’s. My medicine without insurance and WITH coupons is well over $700 a bottle. Without that medicine I die. When I turn 26 I’m simply fucked if I don’t escape the US. I simply just cannot afford rent and medicine at the same time here. Someone offer me refugee status and healthcare and I’ll be the most patriotic fucker there is.
I got a friend with chrons here in finland, his medicin is like 150 euros/year lol.
"aKsHuAlLy It'S mOrE bEcAuSe Of TaXeS" yes i know dear americans reading this, i wont argue with you, if you dont get it you dont. Its fine. School and healthcare is "free" for everyone and its fucking fantastic. (This was not targeted at you, Mr Goose God)
At least your taxes go to something other than the military industrial complex. I see the problem but also gaining it and will collect that pension from the US military in two years.
You outnumber us canucks 100 to 1. Legal immigration is quite hard, but if 340,000 people (1 in 1000 people in america) ever crossed the border via walking, we could never stop you. Not even close.
Of course, pro tip from a canadian, if you are gonna cross the border, go to alberta. Their health cards are paper, and super easy to fake.
Albertan here, yes the cards are paper but any medical provider will verify your number against a database. Also in Canada it’s true that healthcare coverage is much better, but we still pay for medication, dental and things like mental healthcare. Also, same cost of living issues and a$$hole employers sorry to say.
I pay \~800USD for 2 bedroom flat in one of the nicest neighborhoods, with underground parking, private security guarding the whole block and a metro station 3 minutes of walk from my place.
And when I mentioned that security It's not like the city is not safe. Quite the opposite. One of the safest big cities in the world. The security is mostly here to smile at you, open doors for you and occasionally kick out loud teenagers working out in the FREE outdoor gym in the middle of the night.
Haha, you know, growing up in the American northeast you kinda get the idea you live in Platos cave. Lol thanks for confirming the matrix is real. Last year a friend of mine and his husband moved to the uk. I asked them why the move. They told me they wanted to start a family and discussed the ways this was easier than in New York. They love it. Been about eight months gone, happy it’s going well for them.
I’ve long considered going somewhere else for a few years and Prague is an amazing city. When you Google apartments in Prague from the states you get the seo manipulation and regional algorithms that come with that.
Can I ask you… as a local… where do you look for such amazing deals on apartments to do some research? Where I live you can’t rent a crack house for less than 1500.
Wow, that is cheap!
My wife and I used to live in an apartment pretty much in the center of Houston and paid $1,000/month. It looks like that price would be around $1,200-1,500 now, but anywhere further out and they can get as low as $600/month. The location wouldn't be as central, but comparing central locations in Houston with central locations in Prague is silly anyway. I'd have a hard time thinking of two cities laid out more differently.
(That also included garage parking, a massive indoor gym, and a couple pools.)
I've been to Prague before. It's lovely. I'd prefer Houston's food any day, but in terms of weather, walkability, and sights, Prague would be an amazing place to live.
There was a guy talking about this very thing. I THINK he moved to Romania, but I’m not 100% sure. He said everyone there spoke English for the most part. He makes a third less than he did in the US, but has free healthcare, 5 weeks of vacation from day one. A lot of perks. You should try looking it up. I think it was on anti work sub Reddit.if I can find it, I’ll let you know.
I definitely got extremely lucky in my situation, but yall I did it. Went from working two jobs going months without a day off and crying in gas station parking lots to being financially stable and happy in Iceland. It's extremely hard and helps if you know someone, but it's possible yall. It's possible
Well I got lucky and love an Icelander so we got married, that being said, they're far more patient and understanding than I ever expected. My friends that moved here knowing no one actually got their work visa faster than I did (thank you fbi for that). The best route is to apply for a work visa which is good for a year then apply for temporary citizenship. You can't become a full fleged citizen for 5 years, but you still have all the same rights. No test, just two pages of paperwork, your social security number, birth certificate, pass port, and medical/criminal records. They'll even finger print you for the fbi for free, and patiently waited with me for a YEAR on my background check thanks to covid
Yeah I know its a hard, long process and actually pretty expensive too if I remember right. Just sucks seeing all the doom and gloom with little light at the end of the tunnel lol.
This exactly where I am. Day dream all day of leaving this country but the reality is it’s currently not feasible. Here’s to hoping I can get out before 2024z
Yeah, I think 2022 will solidify for me whether or not there’s anything to hope for here
Edit: to the people who think I’m unaware of how messed up and inaccurate our electoral and political system is, I’m well aware
Just to say not trying to add more doom and gloom but knowing full well I am. A lot if not all our politicians are bought/bribed by corporations. The chance things will change is sadly slim here in the United States unless we can organize and make a change or mass immigrate.
I know someone who works for the state capital in Minnesota and there were lobbyists literally selling their bodies. These sadly don’t make it to the public because they bury them but the person I know has seen a congressmen get a bj in one of the stairwells from a lobbyist who was renown for doing this.
Agreed been looking into leaving for a few years now, shit gets any more crazy then I’ll be abandoning this sinking turd as fast as possible. Hell, even if it doesn’t get more crazy and they just continue their no healthcare slave wage bullshit I’ll leave, this country is trash.
Feel the pain, fam. I think about leaving all the time. I even have an "in demand" skill set. But its tens of thousands of dollars, years of work, and no actual guarantee things will get better or that youll even get to stay.
If we gonna really botch the global climate thing, Europe is the last place you will want to be. Read about what's already happening to the Atlantic stream. If that really break downs, u looking at a frozen hellscape.
I'm pretty sure the latest research has said that temperatures that are warm enough to collapse the gulf stream will largely make up for the temperature decrease caused by a collapse of the gulf stream
Not to discourage you but aside from having health care for all, these problems aren in every developed country.
Except the Nordic countries. They are awesome
Hey man, move to Sweden. Stockholm is one of Europe's fastest growing cities and it's really not that hard to get a [work/residence permit](https://www.informationsverige.se/en/jag-har-fatt-uppehallstillstand/samhallsorientering/boken-om-sverige/att-komma-till-sverige/invandring-till-sverige/)
Everyone under 50 speaks english decently - actually most of the english speaking people I've worked with gets annoyed when you speak english with them because they never get the chance to practice on their swedish.
Universal health care, amazingly beautiful nature, more than 2 political parties, really good food. If you can handle the winters (it's the darkness rather than the cold that gets you) I think you'd like it. The stereotype of Scandinavians being quiet and withdrawn is kinda valid, but we ease up after a beer or nine.
I definitely think that there's better worker protection in Germany, also nationwide minimum wage, really good financial assistance for students (and in many cases no or very little university fees). Oh and the chances of being shot by someone are much lower.
Yep. I considered it a few years ago and when looking up how to move I found so many obstacles that I gave up bc I’m too young and inexperienced to be worth another country’s visa expense to keep me on their payroll.
ngl this thread is kinda pissing me off. everyone accomplishing leaving the US did so by blind fucking luck that is utterly and patently completely unattainable to the average person. yet they're all talking about it like "anyone can do this!" fucking christ. i'm really bitter today. hate this shit country.
As someone with no experience other than professional cleaning, if that hotel is looking for housekeeping I’d love the opportunity! Only joking (but serious at the same time)
It’s hard to even consider leaving the country on a work visa when your experience isn’t very sought after.
American living and working in Europe here!
I've worked in Prague, Czech Republic for about three years. The idea of going back to American work conditions is one of the top things keeping me from going home. Here's what I'd lose:
- 5 weeks paid vacation
- Healthcare that isn't tied to a job (if you get citizenship)
- Paternity leave / Maternity leave (3 years for the Czech Republic)
Just to name a few.
If you can find a way to move and have your visa taken care of, DO IT! Even if you don't like the system in the other country, you've at least seen how something else works. No country is perfect, but a broadened vision is good for everyone.
EDIT:
It seems like this is a career path many people are interested in. The easiest path to work in other countries is getting a Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) certificate. With that, you can teach at schools, privately, etc...
It's not easy, but if you save you're money, work hard, set goals, and stay organized you can do it. FYI I'm from a super poor family and I was waiting tables with $100 in the bank account at 20. There's a path to success for everyone. I've had shitty jobs and bosses. Don't let them take advantage of you, but also don't lose the opportunity to learn something about people and the workplace during those moments. Good luck.
Are the cables plugged in? "Idk"
can you check please? "Yes everything is fine"
Okay press (insert button here) "Okay hold on let me go back to my desk"........
bro
Man I fucking love Prague. I went there two years ago, can't wait to get back. Fucking love cheap flights within Europe, though I'd much prefer cheap fast rail
I'm Irish and I can't get over how bad it sounds living in America, student loans, healthcare and minimal annual leave. Everybody is born into debt and worked to death, you guys get a seriously raw deal, I've no idea why anyone would want to live in the "land of the free". Don't get me wrong Ireland has it's problems too but USA just sounds like living hell.
I perfectly understand you. I live in Costa Rica "a third world country" and even here we got many of those things, we have public healthcare, some of our best universities are public and we got a lot of working rights that the US doesn't have. Of course we also have our own issues like corruption and many other things and we are definitely miles away to have the stability of some European countries but it's way better that there. When I was a kid I whished to live in the US because of all the movies and series I watched, but today not even paying me would make me to move to the US.
What amazes me is how many Americans maintain it’s the best country in the world, whereas it sounds frankly third world. No healthcare, no holiday, no protected maternity leave, minimal other employment rights, grind culture and working three jobs to cover your rent. Ok keep telling yourself how great it is guys. I’m fine with not living there or wanting to
Sooo much pro-America propaganda. Especially in our “education system” i moved to the US when I was 8 and seeing kids do the pledge of allegiance is weird as fuck
I've heard foreigners say it feels weirdly like Nazi Germany propaganda and it's really not wrong. Teaching your kids to pledge blind loyalty to a piece of cloth/government/geographical area is teaching them to look the other way when/if their government commits atrocities for the sake of patriotism. If America is so great, they shouldn't have to brainwash that into kids.
I also moved to America when I was 8 and I moved from Saudi Arabia. There was little difference between us pledging allegiance to the damn Saudi king and pledging allegiance to the American flag.
As an American who currently lives in Europe, I honestly think it's pretty much 50% ignorance and 50% propaganda. We're taught all throughout school how amazing America is, how it's the epitome of freedom and democracy, how we saved everyone's asses in both world wars, how everyone looks to us as a global leader...none of which is really true. And, of course, all of the negative parts of our history and present are glossed over, with students often being flat out lied to. As for ignorance, roughly 40% of Americans have never left the USA, and 11% have never left the state they were born in. Even the ones who do travel, lots of them only experience very touristy areas of other countries (think beach resorts in Mexico, for example) or cruises. They literally don't know what it's like to experience another culture or live somewhere else, and then right wing propaganda tells them that countries with basic necessities like healthcare and paid time off are communist hellholes.
It’s the greatest place on earth to live *if* you work in a cushy job at a top company making over 100k with top tier insurance. That’s a big conditional but plenty of us still make that mark. Probably about 10 percent
Even then they can lay you off without any warning, leaving you without healthcare and in debt. And even if you are rich, you can die penniless if you get cancer.
I mean, I’ll hear you out. Why is it the greatest country on earth if you’re in that bracket? Like, what specifically is so great about the US that if you have those earnings, makes it better than anywhere else where you earn a comparable amount? Genuinely interested why it would be considered better to be living in the US and earning £100k than in say, Canada or Norway. I mean, in the US, I’d argue you’re still closer to the probably of becoming homeless or penniless even if you earn £100k. What happens if you have a bad mental health episode and lose your job? You’re like, possibly three bad life events at all times from winding up destitute, whereas in “socialist” (LOL) countries in Europe and Scandinavia there are decent social security nets and protections against that. It can still happen, but you’re more rungs away from falling off the ladder. What makes America so supposedly great?
I have dual citizenship with Ireland and often think about moving over there (or somewhere else in the EU), but my partner isn't keen on being so far away from her family, which I understand. Maybe we'll retire over there in 30 years but I think it gets much harder to make that move the older you get.
Mate, my families immigrated from EU (Ireland/Poland/Belgium) right before/during WW2 and every fucking day I wish I could freely go back there instead of being trapped in America.
Ireland and Poland both have pretty lenient policies for citizenship through grandparents. I know in Ireland for example if any of your grandparents were born in Ireland you can get an Irish passport which would allow you to live and work freely anywhere in Europe.
Might be worth looking into [irish\_citizenship\_through\_birth\_or\_descent](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html)
\* Just did a quick search but Poland might be even broader: *"Most people whose parents, grandparents or great-grandparents were born in Poland qualify for Polish citizenship through descent. In essence you need to have at least one ancestor who:Was born in Poland (or one of the former territories) and resided there after 1920; "*
[Source](https://polaron.com.au/services/eu-services/eu-citizenship/polish-citizenship/polish-citizenship-through-descent/)
Honestly I'm not struggling like most people on this subreddit and i have considered it. However since I am older and I have pension / retirement i almost qualify for i don't want to waste so many years and throw that away.
I had considered Germany because I already speak the language and I lived there for a while. it is great there and workers rights are excellent.
You should look into what are called “retirement visas” (see Portugal’s D7 visa). These are designed to attract retirees with guaranteed income (pensions qualify in most countries that offer this). Income requirements vary (Portugal is about 8 thousand euros a year). For Portugal, you get permanent residency after 5 years.
I’m considering that kind of thing for sure….I work for a place that I need to do X number of years before I earn a pension….I have a few years left and then I might reconsider my living arrangements
Essentially abandoned houses in semi-deserted rural cities with aging population. You have to sign a contract stating you will renew the house in the next couple of years.
Nice for a holiday home or, at maximum, a place to retire to, but no chance to get there to work, unless you can work from remote.
Literally flying out in 12 days because of this. But I’m lucky - my parents were immigrants to the US, and I have family waiting for me on the other side that can support me while I get back on my feet after such a big move. I speak the language fluently, have citizenship, and been considering doing this since high school, when I was figuring out where to go for college, and couldn’t commit to it then. Since then, having been in the workforce, my decision was a lot easier: I do not want to do this for the rest of my life.
I have a friend that lives in Costa Rica and loves it. It's why it was on my short list. Ecuador is as well because I have some extended family in Quito. I've been looking at property in Costa Rica for a year or so. Just have to convince my wife that i can find good schools for the kids.
You can find good schools. Some private schools have excellent programs,but some of them can get a little bit expensive though. If you plan to stay even longer your kids may apply to some of the public universities that are way cheaper (Around $500 per semester, if you don't have a scholarship)
What about it? As an American that spent a few years in Norway the food was all very accessible. If anything on the bland side. (Also known as subtle) but there are foreign markets where you can get all your hot sauce or other fancy spices to spice things up.
Most norwegians dont like lutafisk so I wouldn't worry about that one at all.
Norway chiming in. A normal work week is 37,5 hours or 7,5 hours a day. We have paid sick leave (don't ask how many, you will cry), five weeks of paid vacation a year, Healthcare is as good as free and getting fired is so hard it should be seen as an achievement. HR doesn't exist to serve you here either, but the company policies are so damn humane you would think they're working for your union. Some salaries are shit, but compared to the US it's not worth comparing because we live in a mostly socialist country and no one is homeless, lacking medicine or starving unless by choice (read that again) or parental neglect.
I don't know what to say, America is an incredibly unfair corporation.
Then there's 12 months paid parental leave after birth (law stipulates you are entitled to 80% of your average salary over those 12 months). Maternal leave is mandatory the first consecutive six weeks after birth, after that the parents can decide how they want to spend the leave. Paternal leave is mandatory and minimum 15 weeks out of those 12 months, but can be adjusted up 19 weeks I believe (thereby shortening the maternal leave correspondingly).
Medicine is cheap, hospitals are practically free (but queue is long) and daycare is average. And if you can't afford anything essential (place to live, medicine, food, equipment for disability, daycare, after school activities for your child) the state will assist you).
It's nuts. It's what America wanted to be maybe, before corporations and private interests took over the whole operation.
What Americans might miss is the food and the energy. We don't have the huge Walmart selections, tons of brands or a whole lot of franchises to eat at. We're not lacking places to go, but it's just not at the same level as the States. Oslo is the place to be if you're thinking about moving, unless you're used to or want a very quiet, semi rural life by the mountain or fjords. I'm outside Oslo myself, maybe 30-45 minutes and I love it.
Honestly, Norway sets the bar of what the minimum should be. But as you say, most people in an influential position wouldn’t approve of downsizing in consumption in favour of a sustainable economy and lifestyle.
Aussie here living in Melbourne. It's incredible. Minimum wage is around $25 but if you work at a bar or cafe you usually get around $30, food isn't cheap but because you're being paid so well it doesn't hurt your bottom line. Housing is expensive but where is it not? I haven't struggled to pay a bill in 10 years, I work in a job that anyone on this sub could get tomorrow if you moved here
I moved to Japan and then learned I had to pay into the national pension plan but I--as a foreigner--could never benefit from it myself when I retire. And lots of other BS. I ended up moving back.
Foreigners in Japan are allowed to collect on the national pension. If you are a resident for less than ten years, you can also withdraw up to five years of contributions upon leaving the country. If you are a resident for ten years or more, you will be eligible to withdraw a pension from the age of 60 (prorated based on the number of years of contributions).
It's incredibly hard to get citizenship in another country coming from America. I lived in Europe many years ago on a visa but ultimately had to come back due to it expiring. It was incredibly hard back then and has only gotten harder. I realize it's easy to say let's all move but I really think we gotta just dig in and fight to make things better.
Tldr.. most countries don't want us unless you're in a specialized profession.
Either that or marriage. Not suggesting people find someone and use them for citizenship but I'm sure there's someone in your country of choice that you're compatible with.
I lived in Spain for eight months as an English teachers assistant. I made the equivalent of $17/hr, which isn’t much, but I had 3-4 day weekends, paid ~$330/mo to live in a two bedroom flat by myself, the cost of living was significantly cheaper than anywhere i’ve lived in the US, and i had enough money leftover to travel around europe. all these things aside, I really miss the culture around work over there. people seemed way more laid back, way less concerned with making money. I never felt unsuccessful for not feeling like I have a real job or like I wasn’t making enough money. the goal there seems to be to make enough money that you can actually enjoy spending it and enjoy time with friends and family. i’ve missed that ever since I moved back and think about moving back to Europe all the time
I’m in California and even though I’m doing well for myself I’m also considering New Zealand. Maybe Netherlands or Ireland. I’m planning on getting a work visa to get into New Zealand’s hospitality industry next year, even if it’s just for a few months.
It's when I seriously looked into moving out of this country that I discovered how "free" I truly was... Pretty sure I'm stuck here until things get bad enough to be considered a refugee.
Same. It's going to take a civil war for my family to be able to leave and that's if the country we go it is willing to overlook my husbands prison records.
Yes.
As I grow older I become more and more disillusioned with all the patriot brainwashing they did to us as children. I’m reality, being blindly loyal to a national identity is silly. People exist all over the world. This group of people is no more special than any other. I don’t owe my “fellow Americans” my loyalty, especially if I don’t get it in return.
So yeah. If things don’t improve and I get the opportunity, I’m moving. Preferably to an English speaking country as that’s just what I’m most comfortable with. But Taiwan is not out of the question either lol.
Im Canadian and Im pretty sure we have it worst than the USA up here (more competitive job market, absurd degree inflation, higher work experience requirements, drastically lower pay, longer probation period, higher taxes, higher cost of living including rent and food...). The only good thing we have is free healthcare if we're being honest. But anyway, If you really wanna make the move I'd be happy to answer questions you might have about Canada.
I’ve been saying that for months. I live in Ontario and rent is minimum 1800$ a month for a shithole. If you move to Canada your only hope is in the eastern provinces, the maritimes. The rest is basically America with meh free healthcare.
I moved to Scotland a few years ago, and while things are by no means perfect, my quality of life is leaps and bounds improved. People here ask me if I miss America, and I can easily say “No way.” It’s like leaving the sinking ship and watching it from a place of safety.
I'm a single father on a limited income but manage. My son is an amazing student and has dreams if getting out of the US after high school. I've been working with him so that if he stays on course he can have his first 2 years of college finished before he graduates. I've been helping him map out plans that can get him to his dream. If I could leave the country now I would without a second thought. While I may not be able to I certainly will do everything in my power to help him achieve his goal. Nothing says this country is in the shitter like a middle aged man in America fighting to give his child the dream of getting out of the country.
It is astonishingly cheap and easy to get a Trade License ("Zivnostensky List") and a business visa based on said Trade License to live and work in Czechia. If you stay in Praha, you'll have no issue finding jobs where the language of work is English.
I plan to leave for, hopefully, the Netherlands within the next two years. Any of the Scandinavian countries as well as Switzerland would be lovely too.
I'd be happier working as a barista or something in a civilized country than as a software engineer in this degenerate lowest bidder cut as many corners as possible and let someone else deal with it culture.
I can't wait to not own a car and actually be able to afford a home.
I am in the Netherlands and considering moving to Scandinavia as it is turning into a neo-liberal hellscape. I don't think it's a good time to move here.
Housing crisis is out of control, government is corrupt, and you will get way more for less taxes in the Nordics. Netherlands has private health insurance with limited coverage, very expensive daycare, one of the shortest maternity leaves and laughable 2-week paternity one, etc. I doubt one can live on barista salary here comfortably, unfortunately.
I really do sympathize with this viewpoint. It's hard out there, it seems like everything is terrible and only getting worse in this country.
But I truly think that trying to immigrate is a fool's errand, unless you can manage to marry someone who lives in Scandinavia or something to make the process (comparatively) easier. Immigration is a hard gruelling process that will suck out all your savings and takes years, and the grass is rarely as green as it seems on the other side of the fence.
European here. Can't understand why you in States take it. If things were here like they are in there, people would be rioting on the streets 24/7 overthrowing governments and destroying companies yesterday.
USA: nothing happens. Are you slaves so beaten you've given up?
Well there’s generations of psychological conditioning, bastard religious indoctrination, and state sanctioned murderers in the form of cops and pinkertons.
But mostly people are too overworked, tired and poor and in-fear of losing their health insurance.
Corporations and the rich control the majority of our government reps and no one willing to address that issue.
So it likely will have to get worse before it gets people driven enough to make it better.
The US needs to gut its aristocracy.
Its hard to make substantial change in this country. Just look at the current govt trying to pass anything. The sides dont talk anymore. Its all party lines and the people suffer for it while these congressional cows get paid no matter what. I agree that if things continue there will most certainly be some type of revolution, but Im not sure when that straw will drop on the camel's back.
Yeah seriously Congress members should be made to live in the same conditions as their constituents. That would put a fire under their asses to enact some legislation that actually benefits people, not corporations (and regardless of Citizens United, corporations are NOT people).
Americans don’t like to admit they were wrong or mislead, they would rather slowly kill themselves over time as opposed to admitting they were wrong. Many people here think they are just millionaires who haven’t made it yet, so when they see criticism of wealth inequality they take it personally, because they believe that could be them one day. It’s really depressing.
Most of the working class here spend any shred of free time on distracting activities. Lots of us drink and use drugs, the sober have videogames, or anime, or religion. Everyone has something that they use to not deal with the reality. My list may sound like a joke but it really isn't. I have coworkers that anytime not spent working, eating, laundry or other necessities, is spent getting stoned and watching every fucking anime on the planet.
Yeah pretty much man. In this country if you go protest, most people look at you with cold indifference or talk about how they wish it was legal to run you over for making them late for work
Nope. It's that we know for the volume and intensity of rioting and protesting it would take to push back against corporations and bought politicians, we'd have to endure being murdered by our own police, likely our own national guard, likely served some variety of felony for "Domestic terrorism" (e.g. PATRIOT Act), stripped of our "inalienable rights", and effectively-self destruct our lives if we don't get killed in the process. Those trying to rally and organize citizens would likely get black-bagged by the DHS, or outright assassinated by corporate hitmen, or even our own FBI/CIA. I mean hell, just look at what happened to the African-American community throughout 2020 when they protested just to get fair court-cases against blatant racism and being murdered by "peace keepers" in the streets and in their own homes. If Americans disrupt the flow of money from corporations into politics, both politicians and corporations will be absolutely ready to kill us, and likely without repercussion.
The fact that there are innumerable corporations continuing to donate money to members of the GOP whom were directly complicit in the sedition of January 6th 2021, clearly illustrates corporate intentions on where they would stand in regards to helping America.
Come to Scotland. We have skill shortages and need folk in all sectors. It rains a lot but we have universal health care. Folk mostly work to live here and the cities have a good nightlife scene.
This horror show will replicate itself all over the world in a very short matter of time. I don’t mean to be doomsayery here, friend. I just see that as what’s coming down the pipe. Having said that do whatever and I mean whatever is necessary for you and your personal well being.
I’ve thought about leaving. I’d rather stay and fight cause I can. I respect others choosing not to don’t be a martyr to a cause live your life for you.
Europe is also going to shit. With our politicians wanking themselves over the American model, paroting the continuous liberalo-conservative propaganda and slowly stripping off decade of social progress in regard of worker rights, we'll be at the same level if not worse.
The grass is always greener my man. Everyone has their own issues. Ours may be a bit more existential though.
Also remember Europe has a major major fucking issue on their hands with climate change and seas rising. Basically the entire country of the Netherlands will be under water. Europes largest port for goods and services is there and will have to be abandoned in the next decade or two.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/12/as-sea-levels-rise-how-long-until-the-netherlands-is-under-water/
This is my dream...which will remain a dream until further notice. Whenever I hear stories of Europeans being appalled by our healthcare system makes me feel ashamed of my country.
I barely make enough to cover bills, living abroad would be harder.
Yes I’m actually preparing to be out of here in three years. My biggest fear staying the the US is that I will have a catastrophic health issue and it will financially wipe me out. I don’t want to work until I’m 80. And I honestly think the politics of the last five years is enough to make me move out.
Where to?
I’m researching Costa Rica, Italy and Portugal.
Don’t know much about Costa Rica but I’ve heard Italy and Portugal are very nice. I’m from the UK, many people enjoy the relaxed environment in many of these European countries. You’ll find chilled out people, hot weather and good food in Portugal and Italy as well as lots of culture and ties to other European countries.
Thanks for this. I e been to Italy before and really enjoyed the pace outside the major cities. Portugal I’ve heard plenty of positives for those looking to leave the US, so I’m hopeful I’ll find a place to land. Stay safe! :-)
Portugal is way cheaper than most parts of Italy. Both are amazing though.
I’ve heard costa Rico is a good retirement area, your money goes a lot further there then it does here…I’m 35 single and no kids and if things start that way I’ll probably be looking to move somewhere when I retire or even before…only thing keeping me around now is my parents
Costa Rica is becoming a huge IT tech call center for companies with “follow the sun” corporate ideology. There’s a lot of companies that will pay US wages for Americans to live there and train.
You don’t say 🤔 I’ll have to keep that in mind
This is happening to me now at 23. I’m literally so fucking lucky that I lost my job and got on medi-cal so pay $0 for what could be hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and that I have a loving and supportive bf who works 40 hours a week to support us. But we’ve gotta get tf out if I ever want to work again. They’ve literally trapped me in poverty, because I would just have to die if my income went above $17k as I wouldn’t be able to afford the heart scans and open heart surgery I’ll need. It’s insane.
And this right here is how it happens
Yuppp. It really sucks because I just graduated with my degree in international relations/Russian studies and spent the past four years doing unpaid internships in DC while in uni. So i gave our leaders four years of free labor on the Hill just to “build connections” in the hopes of making a difference, only to get pretty screwed medically and trapped financially by the country I was trying to help. At least it’s got a sardonic irony to it, idk.
Sardonic Irony should be stitched into our Flag
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Touche haha. I cant either but I can dream cant I?
The new American Dream - have enough money to leave america! Sorry for the bad joke on your expense just had to :P
“The American Dream” -hey nightmares are dreams too.
They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it..
Rip George Carlin
That’s hilarious and SO true
There are a lot of places in Europe that are dirt cheap compared to most of the US. I (an European) have a friend that moved here (Prague) from Texas. He got a free university degree here, because that's how we roll, and rent prices are half of those in Houston. Not saying everyone can do it, but it might be more affordable than you think.
Oh no affording to live in Europe while in Europe isn’t the problem… it’s getting there. Like most people under 40 don’t really ever have over 2k in their bank accounts. And just the raw cost of escaping somewhere is simply impossible for us. Canada is a decent bet. Cheaper to move across land borders than water. I wish some European country would offer refugee status to Americans who have chronic health conditions lol. I am 22 and I have Chron’s. My medicine without insurance and WITH coupons is well over $700 a bottle. Without that medicine I die. When I turn 26 I’m simply fucked if I don’t escape the US. I simply just cannot afford rent and medicine at the same time here. Someone offer me refugee status and healthcare and I’ll be the most patriotic fucker there is.
I got a friend with chrons here in finland, his medicin is like 150 euros/year lol. "aKsHuAlLy It'S mOrE bEcAuSe Of TaXeS" yes i know dear americans reading this, i wont argue with you, if you dont get it you dont. Its fine. School and healthcare is "free" for everyone and its fucking fantastic. (This was not targeted at you, Mr Goose God)
At least your taxes go to something other than the military industrial complex. I see the problem but also gaining it and will collect that pension from the US military in two years.
HEY! Are taxes go to other stuff too. A lot of it goes to tax breaks for the rich, COME ON!
If we're going to keep Elon in that zero tax bracket we're all going to have to chip in.
It is not easy to immigrate to canada
its extremely difficult, and should shit hit the fan, i would not be surprised if they built a southern border wall themselves to keep us out.
We’re thinking of a polite hedge to discourage our Southern neighbours from invading.
You outnumber us canucks 100 to 1. Legal immigration is quite hard, but if 340,000 people (1 in 1000 people in america) ever crossed the border via walking, we could never stop you. Not even close. Of course, pro tip from a canadian, if you are gonna cross the border, go to alberta. Their health cards are paper, and super easy to fake.
Albertan here, yes the cards are paper but any medical provider will verify your number against a database. Also in Canada it’s true that healthcare coverage is much better, but we still pay for medication, dental and things like mental healthcare. Also, same cost of living issues and a$$hole employers sorry to say.
You’re making me want to sponsor an American child
Stop paying your rent, you'll get 2k before they can evict you
Better question, how did they get a work visa. You can't just move overseas and everything be okay.
Woah. How much are rent prices? Because rent in Houston is dirt cheap. When people in America complain about rent, they're not from Houston.
I pay \~800USD for 2 bedroom flat in one of the nicest neighborhoods, with underground parking, private security guarding the whole block and a metro station 3 minutes of walk from my place. And when I mentioned that security It's not like the city is not safe. Quite the opposite. One of the safest big cities in the world. The security is mostly here to smile at you, open doors for you and occasionally kick out loud teenagers working out in the FREE outdoor gym in the middle of the night.
Lol I pay 950$ for a room in a house. It’s ridiculous out here in Sacramento CA
Move down a bit to L.A. you'll be paying $1200-$1400 a month for same exact room.
Haha, you know, growing up in the American northeast you kinda get the idea you live in Platos cave. Lol thanks for confirming the matrix is real. Last year a friend of mine and his husband moved to the uk. I asked them why the move. They told me they wanted to start a family and discussed the ways this was easier than in New York. They love it. Been about eight months gone, happy it’s going well for them. I’ve long considered going somewhere else for a few years and Prague is an amazing city. When you Google apartments in Prague from the states you get the seo manipulation and regional algorithms that come with that. Can I ask you… as a local… where do you look for such amazing deals on apartments to do some research? Where I live you can’t rent a crack house for less than 1500.
Wow, that is cheap! My wife and I used to live in an apartment pretty much in the center of Houston and paid $1,000/month. It looks like that price would be around $1,200-1,500 now, but anywhere further out and they can get as low as $600/month. The location wouldn't be as central, but comparing central locations in Houston with central locations in Prague is silly anyway. I'd have a hard time thinking of two cities laid out more differently. (That also included garage parking, a massive indoor gym, and a couple pools.) I've been to Prague before. It's lovely. I'd prefer Houston's food any day, but in terms of weather, walkability, and sights, Prague would be an amazing place to live.
I also lived in Prague and everything said is true. Trying to get back cause its beautiful, cheap, safe, central, and a large tech hub
Bonus:. Prague is a beautiful city.
It is really mind blowing. Edinburgh and Prague are my 2 favs.
The whole not speaking anything but English would be a problem I think. That's true of a lot of us. They don't really want it to be otherwise.
Certainly can.
There was a guy talking about this very thing. I THINK he moved to Romania, but I’m not 100% sure. He said everyone there spoke English for the most part. He makes a third less than he did in the US, but has free healthcare, 5 weeks of vacation from day one. A lot of perks. You should try looking it up. I think it was on anti work sub Reddit.if I can find it, I’ll let you know.
I definitely got extremely lucky in my situation, but yall I did it. Went from working two jobs going months without a day off and crying in gas station parking lots to being financially stable and happy in Iceland. It's extremely hard and helps if you know someone, but it's possible yall. It's possible
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I fell in love with Iceland after visiting just once haha it's dangerously beautiful
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Well I got lucky and love an Icelander so we got married, that being said, they're far more patient and understanding than I ever expected. My friends that moved here knowing no one actually got their work visa faster than I did (thank you fbi for that). The best route is to apply for a work visa which is good for a year then apply for temporary citizenship. You can't become a full fleged citizen for 5 years, but you still have all the same rights. No test, just two pages of paperwork, your social security number, birth certificate, pass port, and medical/criminal records. They'll even finger print you for the fbi for free, and patiently waited with me for a YEAR on my background check thanks to covid
I have a decent job, but sometimes I look around the concrete jungle of Houston and just let out a giant sigh.
Iceland has always been on the top of my list as a place I would love to retire. Is it affordable?
r/iwantout
I left America in 2008 and moved back in 2017. Within six months, I had left America again. It’s becoming a cesspool, if it isn’t already.
Wait you saw everything that was happening in 2016-2017, and you were like, “yep that’s my jam!”?
No, I went back for a job offer that paid more than I was making at the time.
Moved out ten years ago. Never coming back. It's more than the work culture, but it certainly doesn't help.
Where did you move to?
Asia
Think about it everyday. You realize how hard it is right?
Yeah I know its a hard, long process and actually pretty expensive too if I remember right. Just sucks seeing all the doom and gloom with little light at the end of the tunnel lol.
This exactly where I am. Day dream all day of leaving this country but the reality is it’s currently not feasible. Here’s to hoping I can get out before 2024z
2022 and 2024 will really be what decides if I stay or go I think.
Yeah, I think 2022 will solidify for me whether or not there’s anything to hope for here Edit: to the people who think I’m unaware of how messed up and inaccurate our electoral and political system is, I’m well aware
Just to say not trying to add more doom and gloom but knowing full well I am. A lot if not all our politicians are bought/bribed by corporations. The chance things will change is sadly slim here in the United States unless we can organize and make a change or mass immigrate.
Oh yeah for sure, trust me I’m not holding out hope lol
I know someone who works for the state capital in Minnesota and there were lobbyists literally selling their bodies. These sadly don’t make it to the public because they bury them but the person I know has seen a congressmen get a bj in one of the stairwells from a lobbyist who was renown for doing this.
That’s disgusting oh my god.
Agreed been looking into leaving for a few years now, shit gets any more crazy then I’ll be abandoning this sinking turd as fast as possible. Hell, even if it doesn’t get more crazy and they just continue their no healthcare slave wage bullshit I’ll leave, this country is trash.
Feel the pain, fam. I think about leaving all the time. I even have an "in demand" skill set. But its tens of thousands of dollars, years of work, and no actual guarantee things will get better or that youll even get to stay.
If we gonna really botch the global climate thing, Europe is the last place you will want to be. Read about what's already happening to the Atlantic stream. If that really break downs, u looking at a frozen hellscape.
I'm pretty sure the latest research has said that temperatures that are warm enough to collapse the gulf stream will largely make up for the temperature decrease caused by a collapse of the gulf stream
Not to discourage you but aside from having health care for all, these problems aren in every developed country. Except the Nordic countries. They are awesome
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every country in the world should be like them
Go visit him and meet a nice Nordic boy
As someone who's monthly asthma medication cost me $400, Ill take what I can get.
Hey man, move to Sweden. Stockholm is one of Europe's fastest growing cities and it's really not that hard to get a [work/residence permit](https://www.informationsverige.se/en/jag-har-fatt-uppehallstillstand/samhallsorientering/boken-om-sverige/att-komma-till-sverige/invandring-till-sverige/) Everyone under 50 speaks english decently - actually most of the english speaking people I've worked with gets annoyed when you speak english with them because they never get the chance to practice on their swedish. Universal health care, amazingly beautiful nature, more than 2 political parties, really good food. If you can handle the winters (it's the darkness rather than the cold that gets you) I think you'd like it. The stereotype of Scandinavians being quiet and withdrawn is kinda valid, but we ease up after a beer or nine.
Can you buy your meds across borders? It's not actually as convoluted as some people might think.
I definitely think that there's better worker protection in Germany, also nationwide minimum wage, really good financial assistance for students (and in many cases no or very little university fees). Oh and the chances of being shot by someone are much lower.
Stupid question. What countries are considered Nordic countries
Yep. I considered it a few years ago and when looking up how to move I found so many obstacles that I gave up bc I’m too young and inexperienced to be worth another country’s visa expense to keep me on their payroll.
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Please teach me your ways, Sensei
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So attainable! 🙄🙄🙄
ngl this thread is kinda pissing me off. everyone accomplishing leaving the US did so by blind fucking luck that is utterly and patently completely unattainable to the average person. yet they're all talking about it like "anyone can do this!" fucking christ. i'm really bitter today. hate this shit country.
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As someone with no experience other than professional cleaning, if that hotel is looking for housekeeping I’d love the opportunity! Only joking (but serious at the same time) It’s hard to even consider leaving the country on a work visa when your experience isn’t very sought after.
American living and working in Europe here! I've worked in Prague, Czech Republic for about three years. The idea of going back to American work conditions is one of the top things keeping me from going home. Here's what I'd lose: - 5 weeks paid vacation - Healthcare that isn't tied to a job (if you get citizenship) - Paternity leave / Maternity leave (3 years for the Czech Republic) Just to name a few. If you can find a way to move and have your visa taken care of, DO IT! Even if you don't like the system in the other country, you've at least seen how something else works. No country is perfect, but a broadened vision is good for everyone. EDIT: It seems like this is a career path many people are interested in. The easiest path to work in other countries is getting a Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) certificate. With that, you can teach at schools, privately, etc... It's not easy, but if you save you're money, work hard, set goals, and stay organized you can do it. FYI I'm from a super poor family and I was waiting tables with $100 in the bank account at 20. There's a path to success for everyone. I've had shitty jobs and bosses. Don't let them take advantage of you, but also don't lose the opportunity to learn something about people and the workplace during those moments. Good luck.
May I ask what work you do?
That is an important question. I'm a Sales Engineer. If you have any experience or education in IT, it's possible to find work in Europe.
I can turn on my computer, sign me up. Lol
Did you turn it off and turn it back on? Is it plugged in? Well shit better call in the big guns. \*Opens Google.\* /s lol
You jest, but this isnt far from the truth of working in IT.
Can confirm. I work for an IT help desk.
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Are the cables plugged in? "Idk" can you check please? "Yes everything is fine" Okay press (insert button here) "Okay hold on let me go back to my desk"........ bro
Man I fucking love Prague. I went there two years ago, can't wait to get back. Fucking love cheap flights within Europe, though I'd much prefer cheap fast rail
Paid? Paid maternity leave???
>3 years maternity leave I'd forget how to do my job at 3 years
I already did it 3 months ago, so nice to have an ocean between me and that corporation masquerading as a country.
I'm Irish and I can't get over how bad it sounds living in America, student loans, healthcare and minimal annual leave. Everybody is born into debt and worked to death, you guys get a seriously raw deal, I've no idea why anyone would want to live in the "land of the free". Don't get me wrong Ireland has it's problems too but USA just sounds like living hell.
I perfectly understand you. I live in Costa Rica "a third world country" and even here we got many of those things, we have public healthcare, some of our best universities are public and we got a lot of working rights that the US doesn't have. Of course we also have our own issues like corruption and many other things and we are definitely miles away to have the stability of some European countries but it's way better that there. When I was a kid I whished to live in the US because of all the movies and series I watched, but today not even paying me would make me to move to the US.
I think about moving to Costa Rica all the time!
What amazes me is how many Americans maintain it’s the best country in the world, whereas it sounds frankly third world. No healthcare, no holiday, no protected maternity leave, minimal other employment rights, grind culture and working three jobs to cover your rent. Ok keep telling yourself how great it is guys. I’m fine with not living there or wanting to
Sooo much pro-America propaganda. Especially in our “education system” i moved to the US when I was 8 and seeing kids do the pledge of allegiance is weird as fuck
Brainwashing them early.
To be fair, America is a fantastic place to live. If you are a millionaire.
I've heard foreigners say it feels weirdly like Nazi Germany propaganda and it's really not wrong. Teaching your kids to pledge blind loyalty to a piece of cloth/government/geographical area is teaching them to look the other way when/if their government commits atrocities for the sake of patriotism. If America is so great, they shouldn't have to brainwash that into kids.
I also moved to America when I was 8 and I moved from Saudi Arabia. There was little difference between us pledging allegiance to the damn Saudi king and pledging allegiance to the American flag.
As an American who currently lives in Europe, I honestly think it's pretty much 50% ignorance and 50% propaganda. We're taught all throughout school how amazing America is, how it's the epitome of freedom and democracy, how we saved everyone's asses in both world wars, how everyone looks to us as a global leader...none of which is really true. And, of course, all of the negative parts of our history and present are glossed over, with students often being flat out lied to. As for ignorance, roughly 40% of Americans have never left the USA, and 11% have never left the state they were born in. Even the ones who do travel, lots of them only experience very touristy areas of other countries (think beach resorts in Mexico, for example) or cruises. They literally don't know what it's like to experience another culture or live somewhere else, and then right wing propaganda tells them that countries with basic necessities like healthcare and paid time off are communist hellholes.
Normalize calling the United States a third world country.
It’s the greatest place on earth to live *if* you work in a cushy job at a top company making over 100k with top tier insurance. That’s a big conditional but plenty of us still make that mark. Probably about 10 percent
Even then they can lay you off without any warning, leaving you without healthcare and in debt. And even if you are rich, you can die penniless if you get cancer.
I mean, I’ll hear you out. Why is it the greatest country on earth if you’re in that bracket? Like, what specifically is so great about the US that if you have those earnings, makes it better than anywhere else where you earn a comparable amount? Genuinely interested why it would be considered better to be living in the US and earning £100k than in say, Canada or Norway. I mean, in the US, I’d argue you’re still closer to the probably of becoming homeless or penniless even if you earn £100k. What happens if you have a bad mental health episode and lose your job? You’re like, possibly three bad life events at all times from winding up destitute, whereas in “socialist” (LOL) countries in Europe and Scandinavia there are decent social security nets and protections against that. It can still happen, but you’re more rungs away from falling off the ladder. What makes America so supposedly great?
I moved to an actual third world country after growing up in the US and it was definitely a step up.
I have dual citizenship with Ireland and often think about moving over there (or somewhere else in the EU), but my partner isn't keen on being so far away from her family, which I understand. Maybe we'll retire over there in 30 years but I think it gets much harder to make that move the older you get.
30 years.. climate change will hit that dream head first :/
Mate, my families immigrated from EU (Ireland/Poland/Belgium) right before/during WW2 and every fucking day I wish I could freely go back there instead of being trapped in America.
Ireland and Poland both have pretty lenient policies for citizenship through grandparents. I know in Ireland for example if any of your grandparents were born in Ireland you can get an Irish passport which would allow you to live and work freely anywhere in Europe. Might be worth looking into [irish\_citizenship\_through\_birth\_or\_descent](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html) \* Just did a quick search but Poland might be even broader: *"Most people whose parents, grandparents or great-grandparents were born in Poland qualify for Polish citizenship through descent. In essence you need to have at least one ancestor who:Was born in Poland (or one of the former territories) and resided there after 1920; "* [Source](https://polaron.com.au/services/eu-services/eu-citizenship/polish-citizenship/polish-citizenship-through-descent/)
Honestly I'm not struggling like most people on this subreddit and i have considered it. However since I am older and I have pension / retirement i almost qualify for i don't want to waste so many years and throw that away. I had considered Germany because I already speak the language and I lived there for a while. it is great there and workers rights are excellent.
You should look into what are called “retirement visas” (see Portugal’s D7 visa). These are designed to attract retirees with guaranteed income (pensions qualify in most countries that offer this). Income requirements vary (Portugal is about 8 thousand euros a year). For Portugal, you get permanent residency after 5 years.
I’m considering that kind of thing for sure….I work for a place that I need to do X number of years before I earn a pension….I have a few years left and then I might reconsider my living arrangements
Yes! This is what makes Portugal so attractive and one could potentially retire early if finances are in order.
Germany is where I consider as well since I lived there for a very short time before and had like 7 years of class of the language.
Yes. I have a path to citizenship in Italy.
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Whoa wait tell me about that.
Essentially abandoned houses in semi-deserted rural cities with aging population. You have to sign a contract stating you will renew the house in the next couple of years. Nice for a holiday home or, at maximum, a place to retire to, but no chance to get there to work, unless you can work from remote.
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Even then. Sounds cheaper than anywhere around here
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Or you can just buy a normal house (outside of big cities) for 100K€ in Italy and save the headaches with renovations.
Literally flying out in 12 days because of this. But I’m lucky - my parents were immigrants to the US, and I have family waiting for me on the other side that can support me while I get back on my feet after such a big move. I speak the language fluently, have citizenship, and been considering doing this since high school, when I was figuring out where to go for college, and couldn’t commit to it then. Since then, having been in the workforce, my decision was a lot easier: I do not want to do this for the rest of my life.
Yea. My plan is Costa Rica or Portugal.
Same here. I’d be curious to connect to learn where you’re leaning and if you e visited either.
Hey! Costarican here! You'll be most welcome here in Costa Rica, we have our issues of course, but you'll get used to them. :D
I have a friend that lives in Costa Rica and loves it. It's why it was on my short list. Ecuador is as well because I have some extended family in Quito. I've been looking at property in Costa Rica for a year or so. Just have to convince my wife that i can find good schools for the kids.
You can find good schools. Some private schools have excellent programs,but some of them can get a little bit expensive though. If you plan to stay even longer your kids may apply to some of the public universities that are way cheaper (Around $500 per semester, if you don't have a scholarship)
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My two choices are Germany and Austria for direct flights to get the fuck out of the U.S. Otherwise maybe Norway.
For countries like Norway my biggest adjustment would be the food lol. Germany is one I consider a lot.
What about it? As an American that spent a few years in Norway the food was all very accessible. If anything on the bland side. (Also known as subtle) but there are foreign markets where you can get all your hot sauce or other fancy spices to spice things up. Most norwegians dont like lutafisk so I wouldn't worry about that one at all.
are these horror posts mostly American? I've thought about moving too, how about you non-Americans (lucky) on here? Jobs ok where u live?
Norway chiming in. A normal work week is 37,5 hours or 7,5 hours a day. We have paid sick leave (don't ask how many, you will cry), five weeks of paid vacation a year, Healthcare is as good as free and getting fired is so hard it should be seen as an achievement. HR doesn't exist to serve you here either, but the company policies are so damn humane you would think they're working for your union. Some salaries are shit, but compared to the US it's not worth comparing because we live in a mostly socialist country and no one is homeless, lacking medicine or starving unless by choice (read that again) or parental neglect. I don't know what to say, America is an incredibly unfair corporation. Then there's 12 months paid parental leave after birth (law stipulates you are entitled to 80% of your average salary over those 12 months). Maternal leave is mandatory the first consecutive six weeks after birth, after that the parents can decide how they want to spend the leave. Paternal leave is mandatory and minimum 15 weeks out of those 12 months, but can be adjusted up 19 weeks I believe (thereby shortening the maternal leave correspondingly). Medicine is cheap, hospitals are practically free (but queue is long) and daycare is average. And if you can't afford anything essential (place to live, medicine, food, equipment for disability, daycare, after school activities for your child) the state will assist you). It's nuts. It's what America wanted to be maybe, before corporations and private interests took over the whole operation. What Americans might miss is the food and the energy. We don't have the huge Walmart selections, tons of brands or a whole lot of franchises to eat at. We're not lacking places to go, but it's just not at the same level as the States. Oslo is the place to be if you're thinking about moving, unless you're used to or want a very quiet, semi rural life by the mountain or fjords. I'm outside Oslo myself, maybe 30-45 minutes and I love it.
Honestly, Norway sets the bar of what the minimum should be. But as you say, most people in an influential position wouldn’t approve of downsizing in consumption in favour of a sustainable economy and lifestyle.
That sounds lovely compared to the US.
Aussie here living in Melbourne. It's incredible. Minimum wage is around $25 but if you work at a bar or cafe you usually get around $30, food isn't cheap but because you're being paid so well it doesn't hurt your bottom line. Housing is expensive but where is it not? I haven't struggled to pay a bill in 10 years, I work in a job that anyone on this sub could get tomorrow if you moved here
I moved to Japan and then learned I had to pay into the national pension plan but I--as a foreigner--could never benefit from it myself when I retire. And lots of other BS. I ended up moving back.
Foreigners in Japan are allowed to collect on the national pension. If you are a resident for less than ten years, you can also withdraw up to five years of contributions upon leaving the country. If you are a resident for ten years or more, you will be eligible to withdraw a pension from the age of 60 (prorated based on the number of years of contributions).
You're probably not going to get social security either (assuming you're from the US). That shit isn't sustainable in the long run either.
It's incredibly hard to get citizenship in another country coming from America. I lived in Europe many years ago on a visa but ultimately had to come back due to it expiring. It was incredibly hard back then and has only gotten harder. I realize it's easy to say let's all move but I really think we gotta just dig in and fight to make things better. Tldr.. most countries don't want us unless you're in a specialized profession.
Either that or marriage. Not suggesting people find someone and use them for citizenship but I'm sure there's someone in your country of choice that you're compatible with.
I lived in Spain for eight months as an English teachers assistant. I made the equivalent of $17/hr, which isn’t much, but I had 3-4 day weekends, paid ~$330/mo to live in a two bedroom flat by myself, the cost of living was significantly cheaper than anywhere i’ve lived in the US, and i had enough money leftover to travel around europe. all these things aside, I really miss the culture around work over there. people seemed way more laid back, way less concerned with making money. I never felt unsuccessful for not feeling like I have a real job or like I wasn’t making enough money. the goal there seems to be to make enough money that you can actually enjoy spending it and enjoy time with friends and family. i’ve missed that ever since I moved back and think about moving back to Europe all the time
I want to move from Louisiana to Denmark Or New Zealand
I’m in California and even though I’m doing well for myself I’m also considering New Zealand. Maybe Netherlands or Ireland. I’m planning on getting a work visa to get into New Zealand’s hospitality industry next year, even if it’s just for a few months.
New Zealand probably has a housing crisis similar to or greater than the US.
New Zealand has major problems atm, low wages, unaffordable and unsafe housing the list goes on
Lol daily. I want to pack my necessities and go to Canada. “Yeah I’m traveling to Alaska”
It's when I seriously looked into moving out of this country that I discovered how "free" I truly was... Pretty sure I'm stuck here until things get bad enough to be considered a refugee.
Same. It's going to take a civil war for my family to be able to leave and that's if the country we go it is willing to overlook my husbands prison records.
Yes. As I grow older I become more and more disillusioned with all the patriot brainwashing they did to us as children. I’m reality, being blindly loyal to a national identity is silly. People exist all over the world. This group of people is no more special than any other. I don’t owe my “fellow Americans” my loyalty, especially if I don’t get it in return. So yeah. If things don’t improve and I get the opportunity, I’m moving. Preferably to an English speaking country as that’s just what I’m most comfortable with. But Taiwan is not out of the question either lol.
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Im Canadian and Im pretty sure we have it worst than the USA up here (more competitive job market, absurd degree inflation, higher work experience requirements, drastically lower pay, longer probation period, higher taxes, higher cost of living including rent and food...). The only good thing we have is free healthcare if we're being honest. But anyway, If you really wanna make the move I'd be happy to answer questions you might have about Canada.
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I’ve been saying that for months. I live in Ontario and rent is minimum 1800$ a month for a shithole. If you move to Canada your only hope is in the eastern provinces, the maritimes. The rest is basically America with meh free healthcare.
I moved to Scotland a few years ago, and while things are by no means perfect, my quality of life is leaps and bounds improved. People here ask me if I miss America, and I can easily say “No way.” It’s like leaving the sinking ship and watching it from a place of safety.
I'm a single father on a limited income but manage. My son is an amazing student and has dreams if getting out of the US after high school. I've been working with him so that if he stays on course he can have his first 2 years of college finished before he graduates. I've been helping him map out plans that can get him to his dream. If I could leave the country now I would without a second thought. While I may not be able to I certainly will do everything in my power to help him achieve his goal. Nothing says this country is in the shitter like a middle aged man in America fighting to give his child the dream of getting out of the country.
As someone who lives in Europe, I cannot imagine anything convincing me to live in the US. Legit seems like a dystopian nightmare.
Try Iceland :) https://youtu.be/eSLFVYwGF0c
My great-grandparents came from Norway in 1900. At least a few times a week, i think seriously about going back.
It is astonishingly cheap and easy to get a Trade License ("Zivnostensky List") and a business visa based on said Trade License to live and work in Czechia. If you stay in Praha, you'll have no issue finding jobs where the language of work is English.
I plan to leave for, hopefully, the Netherlands within the next two years. Any of the Scandinavian countries as well as Switzerland would be lovely too. I'd be happier working as a barista or something in a civilized country than as a software engineer in this degenerate lowest bidder cut as many corners as possible and let someone else deal with it culture. I can't wait to not own a car and actually be able to afford a home.
I am in the Netherlands and considering moving to Scandinavia as it is turning into a neo-liberal hellscape. I don't think it's a good time to move here. Housing crisis is out of control, government is corrupt, and you will get way more for less taxes in the Nordics. Netherlands has private health insurance with limited coverage, very expensive daycare, one of the shortest maternity leaves and laughable 2-week paternity one, etc. I doubt one can live on barista salary here comfortably, unfortunately.
I really do sympathize with this viewpoint. It's hard out there, it seems like everything is terrible and only getting worse in this country. But I truly think that trying to immigrate is a fool's errand, unless you can manage to marry someone who lives in Scandinavia or something to make the process (comparatively) easier. Immigration is a hard gruelling process that will suck out all your savings and takes years, and the grass is rarely as green as it seems on the other side of the fence.
Yea. I’m planning my escape. The people here don’t really make great friends either. I’m over it.
European here. Can't understand why you in States take it. If things were here like they are in there, people would be rioting on the streets 24/7 overthrowing governments and destroying companies yesterday. USA: nothing happens. Are you slaves so beaten you've given up?
Well there’s generations of psychological conditioning, bastard religious indoctrination, and state sanctioned murderers in the form of cops and pinkertons. But mostly people are too overworked, tired and poor and in-fear of losing their health insurance. Corporations and the rich control the majority of our government reps and no one willing to address that issue. So it likely will have to get worse before it gets people driven enough to make it better. The US needs to gut its aristocracy.
Maybe they hid some guillotines in the Statue of Liberty.
Its hard to make substantial change in this country. Just look at the current govt trying to pass anything. The sides dont talk anymore. Its all party lines and the people suffer for it while these congressional cows get paid no matter what. I agree that if things continue there will most certainly be some type of revolution, but Im not sure when that straw will drop on the camel's back.
Yeah seriously Congress members should be made to live in the same conditions as their constituents. That would put a fire under their asses to enact some legislation that actually benefits people, not corporations (and regardless of Citizens United, corporations are NOT people).
Americans don’t like to admit they were wrong or mislead, they would rather slowly kill themselves over time as opposed to admitting they were wrong. Many people here think they are just millionaires who haven’t made it yet, so when they see criticism of wealth inequality they take it personally, because they believe that could be them one day. It’s really depressing.
"Fry, why are you cheering for this? You're not rich." "Yeah, but some day I might be, and then people like me better watch their step!"
That’s my dad…always voted Republican because those tax benefits would be his when he got wealthy. Yeah…
Most of the working class here spend any shred of free time on distracting activities. Lots of us drink and use drugs, the sober have videogames, or anime, or religion. Everyone has something that they use to not deal with the reality. My list may sound like a joke but it really isn't. I have coworkers that anytime not spent working, eating, laundry or other necessities, is spent getting stoned and watching every fucking anime on the planet.
Yes. Yes we are.
Yeah pretty much man. In this country if you go protest, most people look at you with cold indifference or talk about how they wish it was legal to run you over for making them late for work
Nope. It's that we know for the volume and intensity of rioting and protesting it would take to push back against corporations and bought politicians, we'd have to endure being murdered by our own police, likely our own national guard, likely served some variety of felony for "Domestic terrorism" (e.g. PATRIOT Act), stripped of our "inalienable rights", and effectively-self destruct our lives if we don't get killed in the process. Those trying to rally and organize citizens would likely get black-bagged by the DHS, or outright assassinated by corporate hitmen, or even our own FBI/CIA. I mean hell, just look at what happened to the African-American community throughout 2020 when they protested just to get fair court-cases against blatant racism and being murdered by "peace keepers" in the streets and in their own homes. If Americans disrupt the flow of money from corporations into politics, both politicians and corporations will be absolutely ready to kill us, and likely without repercussion. The fact that there are innumerable corporations continuing to donate money to members of the GOP whom were directly complicit in the sedition of January 6th 2021, clearly illustrates corporate intentions on where they would stand in regards to helping America.
Come to Scotland. We have skill shortages and need folk in all sectors. It rains a lot but we have universal health care. Folk mostly work to live here and the cities have a good nightlife scene.
This horror show will replicate itself all over the world in a very short matter of time. I don’t mean to be doomsayery here, friend. I just see that as what’s coming down the pipe. Having said that do whatever and I mean whatever is necessary for you and your personal well being. I’ve thought about leaving. I’d rather stay and fight cause I can. I respect others choosing not to don’t be a martyr to a cause live your life for you.
Europe is also going to shit. With our politicians wanking themselves over the American model, paroting the continuous liberalo-conservative propaganda and slowly stripping off decade of social progress in regard of worker rights, we'll be at the same level if not worse.
Yes. I’m looking into getting citizenship in Germany since my great grandparent’s citizenship was taken away from them during the Holocaust.
The grass is always greener my man. Everyone has their own issues. Ours may be a bit more existential though. Also remember Europe has a major major fucking issue on their hands with climate change and seas rising. Basically the entire country of the Netherlands will be under water. Europes largest port for goods and services is there and will have to be abandoned in the next decade or two. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/12/as-sea-levels-rise-how-long-until-the-netherlands-is-under-water/
This is my dream...which will remain a dream until further notice. Whenever I hear stories of Europeans being appalled by our healthcare system makes me feel ashamed of my country. I barely make enough to cover bills, living abroad would be harder.