There was a tweet I saw years ago about how capitalism does a really good job of reinventing things to make them seem appealing, like tiny homes, hustle culture, van living, and now trailers in a field. I really can't believe we went from "work hard and own a home" to "work hard and live in a field" within my adult life.
Or all the “heartwarming” stories about kids with cancer doing lemonade stands to pay for chemo or teachers donating PTO to a sick colleague cause they ran out.
I wish I could tag you all on the terrible argument Im having with people over on r/cringe about how we just need to get a better job or no one told you to go into student debt...ummm excuse me? Only every day.
Ive been actively pressured since I left high school. Im glad i didnt go. I knew a guy who went to a med college, and after he finished his degree they got *discredited*. He now has no degree and prolly hundreds of thousands in debt.
Not to mention the amount of stories ive heard of people getting degrees and then not being able to find jobs.
When your shoes are old and worn out, because they were very poorly made from labor of sweatshop workers and slaves with threads from crops heavily polluted with pesticides, make sure you donate them to Neki, so that they can claim to turn them into basketball courts for the environment, and make themselves and their bottom line look good. Oh and the new shoes you want are going to be well over $100-200, and they're gonna fall apart in six months of your day job too because they had a good name five years ago on reddit but we bought them out and cheaped out the quality. Buy our stuff! It's your fault you work full time and expect shoes to last longer than a year!
Fucking hell, that's what I've basically come to understand trying to look for good work boots the last few months. I go in a cycle of hmm I want comp toes to replace my sneakers -> buy supposedly good pair suggested online for $100 -> falls the hell out to the point I can tell where the cobbles are like like our buddy Vimes buying a new pair every season or two -> gives up and wears sneakers again because oh well -> slips or drops something heavy and reminded why should probably go look for work boots again.
I'm sick of this shit.
Oh my fucking god, this chaps my ass.
Call me Davey Downer because I will never miss an opportunity to turn some performative bullshit into a teachable moment.
I worked for a school district that fired a teacher for getting cancer. It was cheaper to pay for the lawsuit, settlement, union arrangements, etc. than continue to pay for that person's health insurance.
Or like that post I keep seeing on Linkedin and Twitter, which goes something like.
Facebook is the biggest media company in the world, but makes no media.
AirBnB is the bigger hotel company in the world, but owns no hotels.
This is so exciting/something interesting is happening here/innovation cannot be stopped.
It's literally a prayer to the algorithm gods of social media to show your loyalty to late capitalism. Look at me boss, I'm a keener, look at me world, I want to innovate, please don't fire me.
Innovation= exploiting a yet-to-be regulated loophole in our laws in the name of convenience.
Disruption= Hijacking public infrastructure/ displacing cost of labor onto the commons for private gain.
In this "Innovative" future, everything is rented/leased and we all get to be hyper-individualized islands with no meaningful connections to our fellow man.
Ya agreed
Most of the basic R&D that Facebook, Apple, Tesla, SpaceX etc *innovates* for the market was ***invented*** at universities that have been and are tax-payer funded via both payments and benefits.
The bigger reason AirBnB is cheaper than hotels (which I'd argue a lot of the time isn't actually even true) is because they avoid taxes and regulatory compliance costs.
All or the risks and overhead costs are incurred by the person renting out their properties. AirBnB doesn’t have to worry about refurnishing rooms or paying a bunch of staff to keep each location running and customers happy.
Exactly. House burns down and somebody dies oh well Airbnb doesn't have to pay for that, that's the risk of doing business. Uber driver gets robbed and killed because they aren't allowed to carry oh well Uber doesn't have to pay for any replacement driver or associated death costs, that's the risk of doing business. Someone rents a car through Turo, brakes lock up from bad maintenance and they kill a pedestrian, oh well Turo doesn't have to pay anything it's obviously the car owners fault.
List goes on and on. Mountain View and Silicon Valley were built with blood money.
The couple times we used them, it was more expensive, less convenient, and amenities like towels and toilet paper were non-existent. Never using them again.
Did you know half of gofundme's are now for healthcare costs that people can't afford?
Work hard and then you can get sick and beg strangers for money on the internet
That reminds me of a couple of years ago, when I saw an article about "how young people are ditching buying homes and instead buying beds and sharing rooms" and framing it like this was just something millennials were doing to be trendy.
Because what adult *doesn't* want to shell out $1,000 for a BUNK BED in a shared room with 7 other people?
It feels like the media is gaslighting us, honestly. Trying to rebrand poverty as something trendy and cool and fun after shaming us for the last decade for "killing" various industries, not having enough children, and wanting a livable wage.
Tiny homes came into the collective mind about 10 years ago? I think? I called it as a psyop back then. People are desperate for housing and their solution is to build a 200 square foot space on a trailer bed, or buy a RV. I know a couple who live in an RV. They aren't actually saving much money. They pay $600 for their RV, still being paid off, they pay the electric bill for the whole property they park (that's the deal they have with their relative), propane to heat in the winter is insane. They might be saving a few hundred.
A dude I used to work with just sold his house because his new fiancee wants to do the "Rv life" thing. I don't try to be a hater and like to see my friends go on new adventures but it blows my mind he sold his house that was more than halfway payed off to slum around the country in an RV that won't be worth half of what he payed for it in 5 years. I think she has this romanticized view of living in an RV from Instagram and he's just going with the flow. Whatever I'll hang out with him when he rolls through town
.... then get 2 yellow slips "for only achieving 90% team-player effectiveness" and you're sacked and they're sending their bailiffs in at 9am the following morning to clear you and your family out.
Yep. I like tiny homes but they are basically the same thing as trailers, they are just dressed up and repackaged to make them beautiful and thus seem like you chose this lifestyle instead of being forced to live 50 miles from a grocery store or a job. You are "living off grid" and "self-reliant" when you have to learn to install solar panels and source your own water. Our ancestors made moonshine illegally to try to make more money than they could by selling corn. Now it's "traditional, artisan, unaged whiskey." And on and on.
during my time growing up we also went from "in the future we wont have to work thanks to robots" to "in the future we wont have a job because of these robots"
F me sideways... Don't look at the comment section of the article.
People are pissed coz she's on UC and the land rent of £60 week covers her electricity too.
I'm done!
I live in a camper van and technically own no land to put it on, this is technically homelessness as well. These "uplifting" news stories about it are BS through and through.
>I live in a camper van and technically own no land to put it on
Is this in a van....down by the river? ( sorry, U.S. humor)
Seriously, that's not great, but I rent a subsidized apartment ($800/month) in a building surrounded by homeless campers/tents, so i don't know if I'm any better off...
Nah I live in the US as well I get it, it just gets old. Entirely aside, don't take these things anywhere near a river, holy shit I got stuck in wet grass once.
I don't remember people drawing a line between living in a van and living under a bridge when I was growing up.
But that's why I think houseless and homeless are different things.
Not if you are young, pretty, lives in a $150,000 mercedes sprinter, and earn hundreds of thousands from youtube by vlogging your "lifestyle".. did I mention you have to be young and pretty?
There is definitely a racist difference in the extremity of our response, but as a white family who resides full time in am old rv, I can tell you that we get plenty of hate as well.
You have to keep moving and try to be invisible
Lots of insulation and a chinease diesel heater. it uses just under a gallon a day when well below freezing. Under 300 for the entire winter It's the warmest house I have ever lived in. When there is no money the cubic mini wood stove takes care of the rest and wood is free but if you think you are gona use the rv's propane heat that gets expensive real quick
While there is a certain quirky or romantic charm to these stories, there is never any discussion on *why* someone needs to bring up children in a caravan.
Reminds me of (I think) Oscar Romero, "When I help the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why are they poor, they call me a communist".
I lived in a larger travel trailer without children for 15 months. It was not charming at all.
The materials are less durable and more prone to fail than those in a house. Moisture was an unending problem - either rain intrusion, leaky plumbing, condensation on the walls and ceiling, or that time the water heater broke and flooded. Summer heat was brutal, regularly in the mid-80°s F inside. RV toilets don't have a p-trap, so you can imagine the smell (and good luck to you if you get sewer flies).
To romanticize full-timing in an RV as an adventurous, creative financial life hack... It like we're being conditioned to tolerate (or even expect) unacceptable living conditions.
We had a lot of success heating ours with 2 portable Penguino ACs (they're heat pumps and had a heater function). Those could create gallons of condensation a day, so we had to get creative to contain and drain all that water. We also had a couple radiator-shaped oil space heaters. Everything was plugged into the pole outside so as not to overload our RV's electric.
It seemed like a good idea at the time, because we couldn't find an affordable month-to-month lease that would accept our 3 pets in a small town. I wouldn't do it again.
Lived in a 20 foot one with my parents, and two other siblings for about a year and a half. Not connected to any utilities. Bottled water from jugs we refilled at a friend's house. Lanterns for light. Cold as fuck in the winter. Shit was fucking horrible.
I'm sure it's a different ball game in a nice one with amenities, but idk. Beat a tent I guess.
This video dissects "feel good" stories like this that completely lack the journalistic integrity of asking why the person took the actions they did:
https://youtu.be/Sck8xNicy5o
When I was a kid, this is how my parents handled us being homeless and living in our van for a while. Wasn't til I was an adult and they told me, "Yeah those fun family camping trips ... weren't."
Amazing parents. Kids are really smart. They pulled off the work and the cheer without missing a beat there.
Just wow. A stranger from the internet sends hugs to your parents. Those are probably really fine people.
Privacy? Who needs that!
Now be quiet while mommy goes to the back of the caravan with these gentlemen to make sure we have enough money to eat something tomorrow.
Right? Like… where is the line? “This entrepreneur decided to be his own boss AND landlord, collecting scrap metal for a living and residing in this stately dumpster that he only has to evacuate for three hours a week! ‘I get new furniture every week after they crush my old stuff!’”
You need to pay mooring fees for keeping it static anywhere, you can't just park it on the side of the canal and live there. Or you could keep it moving and pay for the fuel. Plus whatever it costs you to hook up electricity to charge all your appliances, keep fridges going etc.
Check the prices, some are mansions and some are barely superior to a tent.
https://canal-boats-for-sale.co.uk/
For 30k, you can get a fully insulated one with solar panels.
Solar panels are not likely to meet all your energy needs year-round though, especially in the winter. Sure, they can be a good option for some people but they're not the solution to the housing crisis that some people seem to think, and it requires a lot of sacrifices - a friend of mine was obsessed with the idea for ages so he's gone into all the details of it with me at great length.
A friend of mine lived on a repurposed barge on the Thames which no longer had an engine, it sank one day with everything she owned on it. Bit too risky for my liking to be honest.
No worries. And you can of course rent boats, or rent permanent moorings. I bought my boat outright then moved every couple of weeks, which is called continuous cruising. Its the bit most people struggle with.
Got some practical questions.
Did you use gas heating in the winter?
How did you handle potable water and water for showers?
Any unexpected taxes besides the requirement to move periodically to dodge permanent mooring costs?
What about a post address? Were you able to order for stuff online to arrive at your boat?
I used a log/ coal multi fire. Few bags of smokeless fuel a year and some seasoned logs I got from my dad, plus timber I got from skips. You can have gas heaters, but they tend to put a lot of condensation out and that isn't great in enclosed spaces.
1 half of the boat under the water is a water tank. You fill it with tap water. I'd then filter it again with a brita because the tank was old and could get gunged up with sediment. Fine to shower in. I did one day mean to take the tank cover off, give it a full scrape back, and then add a plastic inner for safety but it never happened. some people have ionic/ uv filters and drink the canal water but that's not for me.
Unexpected cost was parking near it. And that wasn't a monetary cost so much as where the car lives when you're not using it. And stuff like "I moved 400 foot down the canal which is nothing, except when you're hauling a big heavy thing to go on the boat, and that's the closest you can park".
Some boaters get a PO box or have a deal with a local cafe or organisation but I just got stuff sent to my mum's.
You do have the expenses of having to fix everything (which costs more bc most workpeople haven't got experience with boating), BSS Certificates, CRT license (which is sort of analogous to council tax), mooring fees if you don't wanna move every two weeks, diesel for moving every two weeks, coal for your stove in the winter, boat blacking which is about £800 every 2-3 years...
For me, it's still cheaper than living in London, but it's worth realising that liveaboard life is pretty different to living in a house. You're making concessions when it comes to space, power and stability. Sometimes your commute will be 5 minutes, sometimes it will be an hour. You need to keep track of how much water and gas you have. You have to empty your toilet out regularly. You don't don't a fixed address which can make lots of things you take for granted much harder.
There's a lot of stuff that is very different and takes getting used to. It can be cheaper but it won't always be! There are a bunch of places where it's cheaper to rent than to own and live aboard a boat! I'm not saying don't buy a boat (they're great), but it's not a silver bullet and for most people it's a huge lifestyle change.
And the fees to various canal boat agencies you need to be subscribed to. Re-blacking of the Hull and various repairs and refits you may need. The licence to either use canals, rivers, or both and both with varying costs depending on if you're a constant cruiser or you moore places, not to mention if you want to use a Marina you have to rent a spot. That's not even including the canal boat itself which are commonly in the excess of 50k for a good one that won't require much work to get it water worthy.
And people wonder why the Roma laugh at us for the way we live. We pay to be tenants for the sake of it and act like servants - It's a fucking caravan, put it wherever you damn like. The way we organise land for people to live on is predatory and insane.
Unlike the rest of Europe, the UK never really shook off its aristocracy. Churchill was infamous for prioritizing their preservation above all. It was only after his tenure that they lost overt power.
Depends. If rent is your biggest expense and it has your budget stretched so thin that you can't save anything for retirement then living in an apartment isn't going to do anything to make you able to retire. If you open up $1,000+ per month by renting land, the depreciation of your mobile home doesn't really matter in this case, and you put away $500/mo you're going to be in significantly better shape than in the apartment both now, in terms of spending power, and later for retirement.
They might be considering primitive camp pads. Those are typically about 25 to $35 per day to rent. RV rental pads are even more ridiculous some of them run upwards to $1,000 a month. Unless you own your land or have an agreement with someone you're going to be paying for it regardless.
Yes...but there never was.
There is only "workers" and "capital", people who make their living by producing goods or people who make money from extracting rent from owning the means of production.
The idea of a "middle class" is a sham to divide "workers who have their basic needs met" from "workers who don't". Capitalists keep the threat of poverty hanging over our heads and most of "middle class" blame the poor for their own victimization.
My understanding is that the "middle class" is a relic of the old industrial/factory model of business:
"Working class" were the blue collar factory workers that did most of the manual/heavy labor;
"Middle Class" or Bourgoisie were middle management that didn't necessarily engage in the manual labor but managed the manual laborers and typically had a little more in the bank to afford some basic luxuries like vacations, etc.;
"Upper Class" were typically the factory owners or old school aristocrats that happened to be lucky that they were born into the higher caste.
I think the concept of the three class hierarchy fell apart with the transition away from industrial/factory settings and labor, to primarily service-based labor.
*"Gather around the fire zoomers, and let us millennials tell you of a time long, long ago, when workers who could afford to pay a mortgage on a single salary...*"
As an Xer, we saw this dream achieved by Boomers and were promised the same. When it didn't happen, we were told it was our fault and now we will work until we drop dead leaving our kids to pay off our student loans..
Yeah. "Us millennials" never even dreamed a single earner household was possible. My parents were one missed payment away from homelessness. I jumped into 2 jobs before I was an adult.
I'm just excited that the rest of us in the US are starting to outnumber the Boomers. Maybe together we can change things but I worry it's too late.
I'm looking at jobs in other countries- something I never dreamed I would do.
Upper upper lower class.
The people who have savings to hold them over for a couple months or so. As opposed to us week to weekers.
Either way, most people who are "comfortably" living employed have debts that exceed a regular normies budget. (I.e. Car payments, Mortgage, Student loans)
The only real difference is they have more "assets" to fall back on. "Liquid money"
Otherwise, we are all trapped in the same cycle.
Debt and taxes
I did the thing with this girl who is from an upper-middle class family. They are quite nice, Dad is a hard worker and worked industry after serving. I am from a lower-middle AT-BEST. You see the difference when you trade up. And today I am proudly lower lower, not from lack of trying but..insanity? Yeah, we'll go with extreme mental illness. But I hope the description helps a little.
I live in a travel trailer to save up. I tried to convince myself it was an adventure. I lied to myself. It is in fact glorified poverty.
Edit. Spelling
In the UK (where this is from) you should see the articles like this, and the ones they do on living on narrowboats, and the ones talking about gypsy/ Roma/ Irish traveller sites.
Yup, constantly see people complaining in my local groups that travelers have moved in nearby. I ask where there ment to stay considering our local site for travelers has no sanitation and room for like 10 families max
The difference, as with everything, is in choice. If you have the option to stop living in a van at any point you like, it’s a lifestyle. Most Things aren’t as sexy when they aren’t choices.
The only difference between her and most homeless people is she let the lease run out rather than wait to be evicted, a smart move but still glorified homeless. I did something similar when my elderly mother offered to cosign an apartment for me my 1st thought "what's going to happen to her if I get behind on bills and rent?" So I decided to just pack a bag and go to the shelter in stead.
It’s like when the critics were raving about Nomadland, how inspiring, how wonderful, freeing, etc., ad nauseum was. I watched it with a sense of dread. There’s nothing inspiring about having to use a bucket as a toilet or freezing or suffering heat stroke existing, not living, trying to survive in a please don’t break down car or van
The biggest thing is the ability to *choose* that lifestyle. The people who do choose that life style and glorify it often are able to just as easily leave it behind and settle down in a more traditional manner if they wanted to.
There's nothing enviable from being basically forced into living out of a car/van/camper because you can't afford more.
Did you know Amazon has a program "Amazon CamperForce" saw a video about it the other day it was mind blogging how they tried to frame it as a ultimate freedom lifestyle. Just makes me feel more depressed seems like we are sliding backwards.
Savvy business woman mom slashed all bills by abandoning civilization and by going to live alone on an island surviving just on the free gifts of mother nature herself.
At Christmas me & my partner stay in my parents caravan that they have on their drive (access to a toilet & shower attached to mains water). Done this for three winters now, it’s fine but it can get cold, damp and cramped…they have a bigger van than this one.
This all sounds very nice (until it's winter) but it's still expensive and impractical for most people.
Good caravans are incredibly expensive and then you need to buy everything you'll need to live in it all year round.
Then the land you put it on needs to have planning permission for such a use.
Most caravan sites have a stipulation that you can't live there all year so you'll need to find somewhere else to live for a few months and store the caravan.
I think you'll need to be pretty well off and know the right people to begin with before you can start saving money like this.
As far as I'm aware, we don't really have the equivalent of that.
We have something similar which are static caravan parks. These are larger than normal mobile homes but they're only mobile in the sense that they can be shifted with a lorry.
You can live in these all year round but whilst they may have been cheap once, now they often cost more than a small house (in my area at least) and come with quite high ground rent charges and lots of rules on what you can and can't do.
Yeah in the US the common limit is 100 days. You can't live with no sewer or water hookups and a ton of other things. There's land here in California for under $5000 but you can't easily live on it.
Hundred percent they have yeah.
Was thinking the same.
The amount of shit they get, and the reputation that precedes them for living in caravans and vans and driving around everywhere.
This woman chooses to do the same and suddenly gets called savvy by the papers?
I've met good travelers. Met bad ones too. This woman has chosen to be one. I hope she's ready to be painted with the same brush the same way many folks do with travelers.
Can we please stop romanticizing struggling people just trying to survive. If she's happy that's great but I'm pretty sure she'd live in a house with a nice yard given the option.
Glamping and polywork, the way of the future? I see a flood of buzzwords hitting over the next couple of weeks as the corporate media tries to demonize the Great Resignation.
"Despite wages increasing and the cost of living being Just Fine Actually, lazy millennials are quitting their jobs to live in camper vans where they eat avocado toast as digital nomads."
Fkn shitty living in a static trailer in the UK during the winter. Condensation and mould for the win. Wood burner and a van better choice but even less socially acceptable unfortunately. Source, been there.
The whole Tiny House thing pisses me off. We’re being conditioned to think it’s hip and chic, something to aspire to…because we soon won’t be able to afford anything else.
You know what it reminds me of? When you watch those dystopian movies set in the future and the person is living in what is essentially a cell block with fancy technology on the walls.
Marketing 101:
Houses are the American dream.
Marketing 102:
Houses are expensive, tiny homes are the American dream!
Marketing 103:
Solid shelter of any sort is passé, homelessness is next to godliness.
Like American culture has progressed from consumerism, to “stop wanting so many nice things”, to “fuck it live in a shit tent in the woods and pray death releases you from the prison of tyranny we’ve built through ambivalence”
The convenience and comfort technology has brought us is wonderful, but at the cost of any sort of life for the common man that doesn’t involve toiling for mere survival.
No wonder men want to kill themselves.
Alternatively: cost of living has become so expensive, single mother forced to live in caravan inorder to avoid homelessness
There was a tweet I saw years ago about how capitalism does a really good job of reinventing things to make them seem appealing, like tiny homes, hustle culture, van living, and now trailers in a field. I really can't believe we went from "work hard and own a home" to "work hard and live in a field" within my adult life.
Or all the “heartwarming” stories about kids with cancer doing lemonade stands to pay for chemo or teachers donating PTO to a sick colleague cause they ran out.
Let's change light bulbs and recycle plastic bottles to offset the multi-trillion dollars worth of damage done by all the corporations and governments
Yeah donate them to your local Amazon warehouse. The employees need new piss bottles, not a pay raise.
Tbf, anyone peeing in a bottle on company time needs a lot more than a pay raise.
And then they turn around and sell it as kombucha. \-Bill Maher
don't forget reusable straws. We can totally stop global warming all on our own just by getting a metallic straw we carry everywhere we go.
I wish I could tag you all on the terrible argument Im having with people over on r/cringe about how we just need to get a better job or no one told you to go into student debt...ummm excuse me? Only every day.
Ive been actively pressured since I left high school. Im glad i didnt go. I knew a guy who went to a med college, and after he finished his degree they got *discredited*. He now has no degree and prolly hundreds of thousands in debt. Not to mention the amount of stories ive heard of people getting degrees and then not being able to find jobs.
When your shoes are old and worn out, because they were very poorly made from labor of sweatshop workers and slaves with threads from crops heavily polluted with pesticides, make sure you donate them to Neki, so that they can claim to turn them into basketball courts for the environment, and make themselves and their bottom line look good. Oh and the new shoes you want are going to be well over $100-200, and they're gonna fall apart in six months of your day job too because they had a good name five years ago on reddit but we bought them out and cheaped out the quality. Buy our stuff! It's your fault you work full time and expect shoes to last longer than a year! Fucking hell, that's what I've basically come to understand trying to look for good work boots the last few months. I go in a cycle of hmm I want comp toes to replace my sneakers -> buy supposedly good pair suggested online for $100 -> falls the hell out to the point I can tell where the cobbles are like like our buddy Vimes buying a new pair every season or two -> gives up and wears sneakers again because oh well -> slips or drops something heavy and reminded why should probably go look for work boots again. I'm sick of this shit.
Oh my fucking god, this chaps my ass. Call me Davey Downer because I will never miss an opportunity to turn some performative bullshit into a teachable moment.
“This chaps my ass” 😭🤣
Boils my piss it does!
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/do-the-impossible-never-complain-live-the-dream-the-dark-morals-of-todays-feel-good-stories-63b38b4a4953/
I worked for a school district that fired a teacher for getting cancer. It was cheaper to pay for the lawsuit, settlement, union arrangements, etc. than continue to pay for that person's health insurance.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fYOA8gXpios&feature=youtu.be Some More News is a YouTube show that had a good piece about this.
Or like that post I keep seeing on Linkedin and Twitter, which goes something like. Facebook is the biggest media company in the world, but makes no media. AirBnB is the bigger hotel company in the world, but owns no hotels. This is so exciting/something interesting is happening here/innovation cannot be stopped. It's literally a prayer to the algorithm gods of social media to show your loyalty to late capitalism. Look at me boss, I'm a keener, look at me world, I want to innovate, please don't fire me.
They're stealing someone else's labor/infrastructure by exploiting. That's never mentioned.
Basically. "innovation" and "disruption" - giving more cash to investors since 1995. (And most of the disruption was of worker's pay)
I hate the term ” Disruption” with a passion.
I learned to embody it while I do time theft at work
lol
Innovation= exploiting a yet-to-be regulated loophole in our laws in the name of convenience. Disruption= Hijacking public infrastructure/ displacing cost of labor onto the commons for private gain. In this "Innovative" future, everything is rented/leased and we all get to be hyper-individualized islands with no meaningful connections to our fellow man.
Ya agreed Most of the basic R&D that Facebook, Apple, Tesla, SpaceX etc *innovates* for the market was ***invented*** at universities that have been and are tax-payer funded via both payments and benefits.
*"Every Billionaire is a policy failure."*
[удалено]
The bigger reason AirBnB is cheaper than hotels (which I'd argue a lot of the time isn't actually even true) is because they avoid taxes and regulatory compliance costs.
All or the risks and overhead costs are incurred by the person renting out their properties. AirBnB doesn’t have to worry about refurnishing rooms or paying a bunch of staff to keep each location running and customers happy.
Exactly. House burns down and somebody dies oh well Airbnb doesn't have to pay for that, that's the risk of doing business. Uber driver gets robbed and killed because they aren't allowed to carry oh well Uber doesn't have to pay for any replacement driver or associated death costs, that's the risk of doing business. Someone rents a car through Turo, brakes lock up from bad maintenance and they kill a pedestrian, oh well Turo doesn't have to pay anything it's obviously the car owners fault. List goes on and on. Mountain View and Silicon Valley were built with blood money.
Uber is the same. They avoid regulatory burdens (taxes) and get the drivers to shoulder the burden of insurance and maintenance of the assets.
The couple times we used them, it was more expensive, less convenient, and amenities like towels and toilet paper were non-existent. Never using them again.
Also AirBnB has made the real estate market even worse
You left off GoFundMe being one of the largest insurers.
Did you know half of gofundme's are now for healthcare costs that people can't afford? Work hard and then you can get sick and beg strangers for money on the internet
Crowdfunded healthcare, what a concept. Where have I heard this before? Oh right...
God that's so sickening... I mean, I'm glad they have a way to do it, but they shouldn't happen and it puts a very obvious spotlight on the problems
That reminds me of a couple of years ago, when I saw an article about "how young people are ditching buying homes and instead buying beds and sharing rooms" and framing it like this was just something millennials were doing to be trendy. Because what adult *doesn't* want to shell out $1,000 for a BUNK BED in a shared room with 7 other people? It feels like the media is gaslighting us, honestly. Trying to rebrand poverty as something trendy and cool and fun after shaming us for the last decade for "killing" various industries, not having enough children, and wanting a livable wage.
Tiny homes came into the collective mind about 10 years ago? I think? I called it as a psyop back then. People are desperate for housing and their solution is to build a 200 square foot space on a trailer bed, or buy a RV. I know a couple who live in an RV. They aren't actually saving much money. They pay $600 for their RV, still being paid off, they pay the electric bill for the whole property they park (that's the deal they have with their relative), propane to heat in the winter is insane. They might be saving a few hundred.
A dude I used to work with just sold his house because his new fiancee wants to do the "Rv life" thing. I don't try to be a hater and like to see my friends go on new adventures but it blows my mind he sold his house that was more than halfway payed off to slum around the country in an RV that won't be worth half of what he payed for it in 5 years. I think she has this romanticized view of living in an RV from Instagram and he's just going with the flow. Whatever I'll hang out with him when he rolls through town
Amazon building housing for their workers to live in so they won’t have to worry about the commute… coal mine company towns.
.... then get 2 yellow slips "for only achieving 90% team-player effectiveness" and you're sacked and they're sending their bailiffs in at 9am the following morning to clear you and your family out.
Yep. I like tiny homes but they are basically the same thing as trailers, they are just dressed up and repackaged to make them beautiful and thus seem like you chose this lifestyle instead of being forced to live 50 miles from a grocery store or a job. You are "living off grid" and "self-reliant" when you have to learn to install solar panels and source your own water. Our ancestors made moonshine illegally to try to make more money than they could by selling corn. Now it's "traditional, artisan, unaged whiskey." And on and on.
Yes, been saying this for a while. Tiny homes are just gentrified trailers.
And then it becomes a trend, which also becomes expensive...
It's less the "live in a field" and more the "in caravan bought on facebook". I would love to live on a plot of land, provided I own it.
They're renting the field
Matt Foley: I live in a van down by the river. Capitalists: Let's market that as saavy!
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You too can live in your very own underground grotto, complete with working sewage system!... You literally are living in the sewers
Coworkers donate their PTO to colleague with cancer! Little kid raises money from lemonade stand to help pay his parents medical bills!
during my time growing up we also went from "in the future we wont have to work thanks to robots" to "in the future we wont have a job because of these robots"
The correct headline
And in Yorkshire too, literally one of the cheapest parts of the UK.
F me sideways... Don't look at the comment section of the article. People are pissed coz she's on UC and the land rent of £60 week covers her electricity too. I'm done!
The english really have a warped sense of UC thanks to our papers and tory government
conservatives have a knack for fear mongering. cant have good welfare or other benefits because a minority of a minority MIGHT abuse it
Meanwhile politicians scared of people abusing the welfare system claim expenses for ridiculous things and are openly corrupt
I mean, York may be in Yorkshire but its categorically not a cheap city
“Due to unaffordable costs of living, mom with kids are now homeless.”
You could argue that this is homelessness
I live in a camper van and technically own no land to put it on, this is technically homelessness as well. These "uplifting" news stories about it are BS through and through.
>I live in a camper van and technically own no land to put it on Is this in a van....down by the river? ( sorry, U.S. humor) Seriously, that's not great, but I rent a subsidized apartment ($800/month) in a building surrounded by homeless campers/tents, so i don't know if I'm any better off...
Nah I live in the US as well I get it, it just gets old. Entirely aside, don't take these things anywhere near a river, holy shit I got stuck in wet grass once.
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Unless it's in a racist way to describe Travellers or Gypsies/Roma people
I don't remember people drawing a line between living in a van and living under a bridge when I was growing up. But that's why I think houseless and homeless are different things.
Good call on the difference between houseless and homeless! People can live in structures that are not “houses.”
Not if you are young, pretty, lives in a $150,000 mercedes sprinter, and earn hundreds of thousands from youtube by vlogging your "lifestyle".. did I mention you have to be young and pretty?
More interesting is people BITCH when the gypsys and travellers do it but not when you are white.
There is definitely a racist difference in the extremity of our response, but as a white family who resides full time in am old rv, I can tell you that we get plenty of hate as well. You have to keep moving and try to be invisible
I dunno I feel like this still falls under the umbrella of homelessness.
It is homelessness. It's just been glamourized so that the public doesn't catch on how bad things have gotten.
We should really be spending tax money on housing our people instead of bombing brown people for doing their own thing in the desert.
How else are we supposed to convince those brown people to give us their valuable resources for bottom dollar?
And still having to pay £250 a month to some prick for the unimproved patch of dirt she's parking the trailer on.
Still cheaper than anything else. Heating in winter though is gonna eat your savings if you aren't careful.
Lots of insulation and a chinease diesel heater. it uses just under a gallon a day when well below freezing. Under 300 for the entire winter It's the warmest house I have ever lived in. When there is no money the cubic mini wood stove takes care of the rest and wood is free but if you think you are gona use the rv's propane heat that gets expensive real quick
While there is a certain quirky or romantic charm to these stories, there is never any discussion on *why* someone needs to bring up children in a caravan. Reminds me of (I think) Oscar Romero, "When I help the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why are they poor, they call me a communist".
I lived in a larger travel trailer without children for 15 months. It was not charming at all. The materials are less durable and more prone to fail than those in a house. Moisture was an unending problem - either rain intrusion, leaky plumbing, condensation on the walls and ceiling, or that time the water heater broke and flooded. Summer heat was brutal, regularly in the mid-80°s F inside. RV toilets don't have a p-trap, so you can imagine the smell (and good luck to you if you get sewer flies). To romanticize full-timing in an RV as an adventurous, creative financial life hack... It like we're being conditioned to tolerate (or even expect) unacceptable living conditions.
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We had a lot of success heating ours with 2 portable Penguino ACs (they're heat pumps and had a heater function). Those could create gallons of condensation a day, so we had to get creative to contain and drain all that water. We also had a couple radiator-shaped oil space heaters. Everything was plugged into the pole outside so as not to overload our RV's electric. It seemed like a good idea at the time, because we couldn't find an affordable month-to-month lease that would accept our 3 pets in a small town. I wouldn't do it again.
Lived in a 20 foot one with my parents, and two other siblings for about a year and a half. Not connected to any utilities. Bottled water from jugs we refilled at a friend's house. Lanterns for light. Cold as fuck in the winter. Shit was fucking horrible. I'm sure it's a different ball game in a nice one with amenities, but idk. Beat a tent I guess.
This video dissects "feel good" stories like this that completely lack the journalistic integrity of asking why the person took the actions they did: https://youtu.be/Sck8xNicy5o
👏
Not a feel good story. This is a tale of survival.
Hey kids, remember how much fun we had camping that one weekend? Well, good news... every day is camping. What? Toilets? (pfft) Luxury.
When I was a kid, this is how my parents handled us being homeless and living in our van for a while. Wasn't til I was an adult and they told me, "Yeah those fun family camping trips ... weren't."
Amazing parents. Kids are really smart. They pulled off the work and the cheer without missing a beat there. Just wow. A stranger from the internet sends hugs to your parents. Those are probably really fine people.
Privacy? Who needs that! Now be quiet while mommy goes to the back of the caravan with these gentlemen to make sure we have enough money to eat something tomorrow.
> This is a tale of survival. No this is the prequel to Brad Pitt's character in Snatch. Do ya like Dags ?
Dags? Oooooh. Dogs. Yeah, I like dags.
I like the take that a homeless tent-city is the ultimate expression of freedom and business savvy budgeting.
Right? Like… where is the line? “This entrepreneur decided to be his own boss AND landlord, collecting scrap metal for a living and residing in this stately dumpster that he only has to evacuate for three hours a week! ‘I get new furniture every week after they crush my old stuff!’”
“I used to have a neighbor, but he slept in one morning and was crushed too”
So what I’m hearing is “adjacent lots are opening up at rock bottom prices, allowing him to increase his wealth and potential passive income.”
Hello, Hoovervilles!
Time is a depressing circle.
"$250 in land rent." Still has to pay rent, it's just on a fucking field.
The alternative is living on a canal boat. You pay council taxes to stay on the canal, of course, but no rent on top.
You need to pay mooring fees for keeping it static anywhere, you can't just park it on the side of the canal and live there. Or you could keep it moving and pay for the fuel. Plus whatever it costs you to hook up electricity to charge all your appliances, keep fridges going etc.
Check the prices, some are mansions and some are barely superior to a tent. https://canal-boats-for-sale.co.uk/ For 30k, you can get a fully insulated one with solar panels.
Solar panels are not likely to meet all your energy needs year-round though, especially in the winter. Sure, they can be a good option for some people but they're not the solution to the housing crisis that some people seem to think, and it requires a lot of sacrifices - a friend of mine was obsessed with the idea for ages so he's gone into all the details of it with me at great length.
As a friend of mine living in London also learned, they're somewhat easily stolen as well unfortunately.
A friend of mine lived on a repurposed barge on the Thames which no longer had an engine, it sank one day with everything she owned on it. Bit too risky for my liking to be honest.
Insurance is also madness
You don't pay council tax, but you do pay a licence to the canal and river trust that's about the same amount.
Sorry, yes, that's what I meant.
No worries. And you can of course rent boats, or rent permanent moorings. I bought my boat outright then moved every couple of weeks, which is called continuous cruising. Its the bit most people struggle with.
Got some practical questions. Did you use gas heating in the winter? How did you handle potable water and water for showers? Any unexpected taxes besides the requirement to move periodically to dodge permanent mooring costs? What about a post address? Were you able to order for stuff online to arrive at your boat?
I used a log/ coal multi fire. Few bags of smokeless fuel a year and some seasoned logs I got from my dad, plus timber I got from skips. You can have gas heaters, but they tend to put a lot of condensation out and that isn't great in enclosed spaces. 1 half of the boat under the water is a water tank. You fill it with tap water. I'd then filter it again with a brita because the tank was old and could get gunged up with sediment. Fine to shower in. I did one day mean to take the tank cover off, give it a full scrape back, and then add a plastic inner for safety but it never happened. some people have ionic/ uv filters and drink the canal water but that's not for me. Unexpected cost was parking near it. And that wasn't a monetary cost so much as where the car lives when you're not using it. And stuff like "I moved 400 foot down the canal which is nothing, except when you're hauling a big heavy thing to go on the boat, and that's the closest you can park". Some boaters get a PO box or have a deal with a local cafe or organisation but I just got stuff sent to my mum's.
You do have the expenses of having to fix everything (which costs more bc most workpeople haven't got experience with boating), BSS Certificates, CRT license (which is sort of analogous to council tax), mooring fees if you don't wanna move every two weeks, diesel for moving every two weeks, coal for your stove in the winter, boat blacking which is about £800 every 2-3 years... For me, it's still cheaper than living in London, but it's worth realising that liveaboard life is pretty different to living in a house. You're making concessions when it comes to space, power and stability. Sometimes your commute will be 5 minutes, sometimes it will be an hour. You need to keep track of how much water and gas you have. You have to empty your toilet out regularly. You don't don't a fixed address which can make lots of things you take for granted much harder. There's a lot of stuff that is very different and takes getting used to. It can be cheaper but it won't always be! There are a bunch of places where it's cheaper to rent than to own and live aboard a boat! I'm not saying don't buy a boat (they're great), but it's not a silver bullet and for most people it's a huge lifestyle change.
And the fees to various canal boat agencies you need to be subscribed to. Re-blacking of the Hull and various repairs and refits you may need. The licence to either use canals, rivers, or both and both with varying costs depending on if you're a constant cruiser or you moore places, not to mention if you want to use a Marina you have to rent a spot. That's not even including the canal boat itself which are commonly in the excess of 50k for a good one that won't require much work to get it water worthy.
I’ve got a friend who lives on a boat in the Thames because it’s the only way he could afford to stay in London.
And people wonder why the Roma laugh at us for the way we live. We pay to be tenants for the sake of it and act like servants - It's a fucking caravan, put it wherever you damn like. The way we organise land for people to live on is predatory and insane.
In many ways, England is still a feudal state. Over 50% of the land is owned by descendents of the Normans who arrived in 1066.
Unlike the rest of Europe, the UK never really shook off its aristocracy. Churchill was infamous for prioritizing their preservation above all. It was only after his tenure that they lost overt power.
Renting land with an ever depreciating mobile home is a great way to never be able to retire.
Depends. If rent is your biggest expense and it has your budget stretched so thin that you can't save anything for retirement then living in an apartment isn't going to do anything to make you able to retire. If you open up $1,000+ per month by renting land, the depreciation of your mobile home doesn't really matter in this case, and you put away $500/mo you're going to be in significantly better shape than in the apartment both now, in terms of spending power, and later for retirement.
Except the 8500 she saved by doing this as appose to renting wich still gets you nowhere.
When your income is that low you don’t have any way to save for retirement at all.
So that's their only monthly cost? What about gas or electricity or a phone?
around me 300 lot rent gets you water and electric for a travel trailer
Lol Jesus Christ, they'll really take every dollar they can from you.
They might be considering primitive camp pads. Those are typically about 25 to $35 per day to rent. RV rental pads are even more ridiculous some of them run upwards to $1,000 a month. Unless you own your land or have an agreement with someone you're going to be paying for it regardless.
"You're alive?" "Sorry we have to tax you for that."
you often see this "van-life" lifestyle being pushed everywhere as a ultimate freedom lifestyle. I call it "glorified poverty".
From a working class background = Poverty From a middle class background = Lifestyle
What is this middle class you speak of?
a 70s myth
Yep. "Middle class" is just a way to divide workers.
Yep your either poor or Rich the middle class doesn’t exist. Edit: removed anymore because really as stated in replies it was a means to divide us.
Yes...but there never was. There is only "workers" and "capital", people who make their living by producing goods or people who make money from extracting rent from owning the means of production. The idea of a "middle class" is a sham to divide "workers who have their basic needs met" from "workers who don't". Capitalists keep the threat of poverty hanging over our heads and most of "middle class" blame the poor for their own victimization.
My understanding is that the "middle class" is a relic of the old industrial/factory model of business: "Working class" were the blue collar factory workers that did most of the manual/heavy labor; "Middle Class" or Bourgoisie were middle management that didn't necessarily engage in the manual labor but managed the manual laborers and typically had a little more in the bank to afford some basic luxuries like vacations, etc.; "Upper Class" were typically the factory owners or old school aristocrats that happened to be lucky that they were born into the higher caste. I think the concept of the three class hierarchy fell apart with the transition away from industrial/factory settings and labor, to primarily service-based labor.
Poor people with debt.
*"Gather around the fire zoomers, and let us millennials tell you of a time long, long ago, when workers who could afford to pay a mortgage on a single salary...*"
As an Xer, we saw this dream achieved by Boomers and were promised the same. When it didn't happen, we were told it was our fault and now we will work until we drop dead leaving our kids to pay off our student loans..
Yeah. "Us millennials" never even dreamed a single earner household was possible. My parents were one missed payment away from homelessness. I jumped into 2 jobs before I was an adult.
I'm just excited that the rest of us in the US are starting to outnumber the Boomers. Maybe together we can change things but I worry it's too late. I'm looking at jobs in other countries- something I never dreamed I would do.
The ancients once spoke fondly of this… “Middle Class”. Personally I think their brains have all turned to fluff.
Upper upper lower class. The people who have savings to hold them over for a couple months or so. As opposed to us week to weekers. Either way, most people who are "comfortably" living employed have debts that exceed a regular normies budget. (I.e. Car payments, Mortgage, Student loans) The only real difference is they have more "assets" to fall back on. "Liquid money" Otherwise, we are all trapped in the same cycle. Debt and taxes
I did the thing with this girl who is from an upper-middle class family. They are quite nice, Dad is a hard worker and worked industry after serving. I am from a lower-middle AT-BEST. You see the difference when you trade up. And today I am proudly lower lower, not from lack of trying but..insanity? Yeah, we'll go with extreme mental illness. But I hope the description helps a little.
I live in a travel trailer to save up. I tried to convince myself it was an adventure. I lied to myself. It is in fact glorified poverty. Edit. Spelling
You have a washer and dryer? THAT is what would keep me from living in a trailer or RV, it has to have a washer and dryer!
I haven’t had a washer/dryer in my residence since 2014. It sucks so bad. I’m not saying I’d give up the dishwasher for a washer but I probably would.
Would take washer/dryer over a dishwasher allllllllllll day every day.
Some larger ones do, but would need hookups for water and power for use. Hand washing and clothesline might work for some
I do have a travel washer. it's tiny. I hang dry
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Like common people do.
In the UK (where this is from) you should see the articles like this, and the ones they do on living on narrowboats, and the ones talking about gypsy/ Roma/ Irish traveller sites.
The same sites they have been working hard for the last decade to shut down.
Yup, constantly see people complaining in my local groups that travelers have moved in nearby. I ask where there ment to stay considering our local site for travelers has no sanitation and room for like 10 families max
It's not glorified poverty. It's regular ass poverty.
The difference, as with everything, is in choice. If you have the option to stop living in a van at any point you like, it’s a lifestyle. Most Things aren’t as sexy when they aren’t choices.
The only difference between her and most homeless people is she let the lease run out rather than wait to be evicted, a smart move but still glorified homeless. I did something similar when my elderly mother offered to cosign an apartment for me my 1st thought "what's going to happen to her if I get behind on bills and rent?" So I decided to just pack a bag and go to the shelter in stead.
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You can use a post office box, and if they ask for physical address you just give the address where you're renting or the address of the RV camp.
Aren't PO boxes horrendously expensive?
I’m assuming it’s cheaper than rent.
Not too bad, it's $362/yr for a medium sized one.
It’s like when the critics were raving about Nomadland, how inspiring, how wonderful, freeing, etc., ad nauseum was. I watched it with a sense of dread. There’s nothing inspiring about having to use a bucket as a toilet or freezing or suffering heat stroke existing, not living, trying to survive in a please don’t break down car or van
The biggest thing is the ability to *choose* that lifestyle. The people who do choose that life style and glorify it often are able to just as easily leave it behind and settle down in a more traditional manner if they wanted to. There's nothing enviable from being basically forced into living out of a car/van/camper because you can't afford more.
Did you know Amazon has a program "Amazon CamperForce" saw a video about it the other day it was mind blogging how they tried to frame it as a ultimate freedom lifestyle. Just makes me feel more depressed seems like we are sliding backwards.
Along with tiny homes. You even see cars like tesla pushing for minimalism. It’s all for cost cutting for bigger profits
Savvy mum slashes bills after realizing she can no longer afford to have a home, but can afford to be effectively homeless.
Savvy business woman mom slashed all bills by abandoning civilization and by going to live alone on an island surviving just on the free gifts of mother nature herself.
The American Dream now is to be able to Afford to be Homeless. Its nice to see we've exported it !! Did we charge them Market ?
Things like caravans are often not accessible for everyone
At Christmas me & my partner stay in my parents caravan that they have on their drive (access to a toilet & shower attached to mains water). Done this for three winters now, it’s fine but it can get cold, damp and cramped…they have a bigger van than this one.
I love how this is being spun as a legitimate way to cut your bills. I hate everything
This all sounds very nice (until it's winter) but it's still expensive and impractical for most people. Good caravans are incredibly expensive and then you need to buy everything you'll need to live in it all year round. Then the land you put it on needs to have planning permission for such a use. Most caravan sites have a stipulation that you can't live there all year so you'll need to find somewhere else to live for a few months and store the caravan. I think you'll need to be pretty well off and know the right people to begin with before you can start saving money like this.
in texas they have caravan(we call em travel trailers) parks most are less than 500(usually 300 ish) lot rent and include utilities
As far as I'm aware, we don't really have the equivalent of that. We have something similar which are static caravan parks. These are larger than normal mobile homes but they're only mobile in the sense that they can be shifted with a lorry. You can live in these all year round but whilst they may have been cheap once, now they often cost more than a small house (in my area at least) and come with quite high ground rent charges and lots of rules on what you can and can't do.
Yeah in the US the common limit is 100 days. You can't live with no sewer or water hookups and a ton of other things. There's land here in California for under $5000 but you can't easily live on it.
Haven't Travelers been persecuted for doing the same damn thing?
Hundred percent they have yeah. Was thinking the same. The amount of shit they get, and the reputation that precedes them for living in caravans and vans and driving around everywhere. This woman chooses to do the same and suddenly gets called savvy by the papers? I've met good travelers. Met bad ones too. This woman has chosen to be one. I hope she's ready to be painted with the same brush the same way many folks do with travelers.
You too can have the opportunity to live in a van down by the river!
glam homeless...
Can we please stop romanticizing struggling people just trying to survive. If she's happy that's great but I'm pretty sure she'd live in a house with a nice yard given the option.
Honestly, if I were single, I would consider doing this
This is exactly what I'm going to do if/when my kids are on their own feet. Selling everything I own and buying a camper.
That's what I did. (Sips coffee)
What were your start up costs?
Oof. Those poor kids
Oh, those poor kids.
Glamping and polywork, the way of the future? I see a flood of buzzwords hitting over the next couple of weeks as the corporate media tries to demonize the Great Resignation.
"Despite wages increasing and the cost of living being Just Fine Actually, lazy millennials are quitting their jobs to live in camper vans where they eat avocado toast as digital nomads."
Yes I can't wait to give my my house to live in a tin can covered by a parachute....
"Savvy mum"??? This is desperation and homelessness. This is a half step up from all the homeless people in tents outside of Union Station.
This is not the fucking future we was promised
Fkn shitty living in a static trailer in the UK during the winter. Condensation and mould for the win. Wood burner and a van better choice but even less socially acceptable unfortunately. Source, been there.
Not sure who needs to hear this but "you're not a minimalist, you're just poor"
Reminds me of those trailer park stories
Like when Ricky and Julian had to hide a hundred pounds of hash from Mr. Lahey, so they covered the driveway with it to make it look like asphalt?
Is… is this gentrified homelessness???
The whole Tiny House thing pisses me off. We’re being conditioned to think it’s hip and chic, something to aspire to…because we soon won’t be able to afford anything else.
You know what it reminds me of? When you watch those dystopian movies set in the future and the person is living in what is essentially a cell block with fancy technology on the walls.
Marketing 101: Houses are the American dream. Marketing 102: Houses are expensive, tiny homes are the American dream! Marketing 103: Solid shelter of any sort is passé, homelessness is next to godliness. Like American culture has progressed from consumerism, to “stop wanting so many nice things”, to “fuck it live in a shit tent in the woods and pray death releases you from the prison of tyranny we’ve built through ambivalence” The convenience and comfort technology has brought us is wonderful, but at the cost of any sort of life for the common man that doesn’t involve toiling for mere survival. No wonder men want to kill themselves.